R/u/x Blue Sligh

[Basara]

Lynx is the heart of this deck , he is an absurd beater most of the time , other thing im noticing is why dont we have enchantment hate in sideboard despite we are running white?

[Darksteel]

Hanni has Disenchant in his board in the list on the first page. :P

Anyway, I'm going to give this deck another shot at my local Legacy tournament tomorrow, since I finally got my third Volcanic Island in the mail today. I'm going to run Hanni's list on the first page.

I'm going to add Submerge to the board, though, if I can borrow them tomorrow. The last time I played this deck, my creatures were often outclassed by Knight/Goyf most of the time. Perhaps I just had poor luck with not getting enough fetches for Lynx.

Got any tips on fighting Death and Taxes with this deck? What about Armageddon Stax? Aggro Loam? [My local metagame is certainly varied. :P]

[Poron]

these decks are owned by an early Chalice @1.

Some backup plan? it looks like a turn 0 gg...

[Brushwagg]

Kich867* -- It's ok, I've had people say it "Krirsh", it was pretty mind-blowing.

Sorry about that.

@Stax: I would run Shattering Spree for sure and not over extend lands.

@D&T: Does still play Mom?? If so that's the only creture you care about I think. Throw everything at the nugget of your opponent. Hell that's pretty much what you want to do in every match.

Loam: Tormod's Crypt and PoP.



these decks are owned by an early Chalice @1.

Some backup plan? it looks like a turn 0 gg...


While Chailce is bad, that's why you SB artifact and enchanment removal. I prefer Shattering Spree since it can hit more then one target for pretty cheap. For a bigger event I would probably include a couple of Disenchants in SB as well some where.

[Vacrix]

I'm going to add Submerge to the board, though, if I can borrow them tomorrow. The last time I played this deck, my creatures were often outclassed by Knight/Goyf most of the time. Perhaps I just had poor luck with not getting enough fetches for Lynx.

Got any tips on fighting Death and Taxes with this deck? What about Armageddon Stax? Aggro Loam? [My local metagame is certainly varied. :P]
You shouldn't need Submerge. By the time Knight is big, you aren't using your creatures anymore, you are just burning them with reach spells, though Steppe Lynx and Vexing Devil might be able to trade now with a medium sized one that gets dropped on turn 3. Also, Delver's fly. I wouldn't be against trading Magma Jet and a Goblin Guide for a 4/4 Knight. You can run more fetches if you like, you aren't necessarily limited to 16 lands. I think Brushwagg's list runs 18.

Against DnT... you should blow them out usually. You are faster, they can't really deal with the reach unless they get Batterskull. Post-board you have a lot of answers for that line of play with artifact removal and Sulfuric Vortex. A problem you might run into though post-board is Warmth or COP red. Be sure to board in your Sulfuric Vortex's artifact removal, and Disenchants. I don't think you bring in Spell Pierce here.

@Brushwagg
How good has Leyline been in place of Sulfuric Vortex? Obviously 3cc is a bit taxing on the mana base but you're running 18 lands if I recall. If its not in your opening hand that its even harder to cast than Vortex and Vortex also has the added bonus of dealing damage, and being an Enchantment (harder to remove). Also, Batterskull doesn't come down until you are able to play Vortex anyway.

Against Armageddon Stax.. Chalice @ 1 is tough.. but you can destroy it post-board with Shattering Spree (doesn't counter the copies) and Disenchant (2cc). Also, keeping hands that are heavy with creatures is probably key here. Reach spells won't get there because they will almost surely blow up all your lands, Wastelock you, 3sphere, Chalice, or any combination of those.

Aggro Loam isn't really running Chalice @ 1 anymore so you don't have to worry about that. They will Punishing Fire and/or Seismic Assualt all your creatures though. Most lists I've seen aren't running Devastating Dreams anymore. I think you want to play mostly reach spells in this matchup ASAP and hope they don't Loam lock you. Post-board.. Spell Pierce and Disenchant is the tech.

[Brushwagg]

@Brushwagg
How good has Leyline been in place of Sulfuric Vortex? Obviously 3cc is a bit taxing on the mana base but you're running 18 lands if I recall. If its not in your opening hand that its even harder to cast than Vortex and Vortex also has the added bonus of dealing damage, and being an Enchantment (harder to remove). Also, Batterskull doesn't come down until you are able to play Vortex anyway.

To be quite honest I don't own Votex. I've only had to bring in the Leyline once but never saw it. So the short answer is I don't know. But Leyline does prevent COP:Red from doing anything as well.

Yes I do run 18 lands, I feel 16 is a little light.

4x Scalding Tarn
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Arid Mesa
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Volcanic Island
2x Plateau
1x Mountain
1x Island

The Island is probably going to become Tundra, because of Wasteland being in 90% of the decks that see play in my meta and I don't like being cut a color. I might just be paranoid though. Misty is probably going to be a Wooded Foothills again.

[Vacrix]

Indeed. I've decided to start putting this deck together. I already have quite a few cards. Just gotta win some tournaments now.

[Brushwagg]

Went 3-1-1 split top 2 at a Local event. Only 11 players, but most of the players there are good.
Beat Junk 2-0 round 1. Super fast starts both games and he can't recover.

Round 2 lost to Nic Fit with Red splash 2-1. Game 1 I was able to burn his Explorer on my turn and Swing in with an 8/9 cat. He can't recover after that. Game 2: he hits me with some discard and Liliana isn't making things better, along with Deed. Also I start drawing trash and he ends the game with Broodmate. Game 3: I start with Leyline in play a pretty good hand that gets wrecked by Hymn. He draws Deed wipes the board including the Leyline. The game ends with him playing Obstinate Baloth with me with Price of Progess in hand and no Fireblast to seal the game.

Round 3: new player 2-0. Nuff said

Round 4: RUGThreshtempo or WTF ever it's called this week. 2-0. Game 1: Start with a Good hand Goblin Guide got Bolted. I went into Burn mode and torched him. He tried FOW my Magma Jet while he was at 1. Game 2: Mull to 6, first one of the night. I keep a hand of 2x Fetch Steppe Lynx 2x Goblin Guide and a Daze. He mulls to 5 to keep a hand with [/cards]Leyline of Sancity[/catds] in it. I start out with Lynx that gets Bolted. I draw Goblin Guide, play Goblin Guide, he attempts to Daze I Daze back and play Goblin Guide number 2. Swing. Next turn play GG number 3 he bolts one. I draw a Lynx for turn play it. He drops Goyf. I draw a land play swing he blocks the cat. He plays Phyrexian Revoker. So It's 2x GG vs Goyf and Revoker and he's at 2. Suspend Rift Bolt and pass. He Ponders see nothering and passes. I Bolt Revoker and swing for the W.

Cut to top 2 split with same guy from round 4.

The more I play this deck the more I like it. There are games where I really love Grim Lavamancer and the games I don't see it I really don't miss it. So I'm still not sure if it's totally cuttable of what.

What are peoples thought's on Chain of Vapor in the Disenchant spot?? I do know I'm cutting the Crypts for one or the other. I have yet to side them in.

[Vacrix]

Nice report man. I'm glad to hear this deck is doing well.


Chain of Vapor vs. Disenchant... I think Disenchant is going to be better most of the time. Disenchant answers Chalice @ 1 and it gets rid of Warmth, Chill, Leyline of Sanctity, Jitte, Batterskull, etc. permanently. I'd say it deserves a permanent spot in the board.

8/9 Lynx... Jesus. Did his chin it the table or what?

[Brushwagg]

8/9 Lynx... Jesus. Did his chin it the table or what?

After the match he said after he played he had a feeling that it was getting burned.

Well I'm not going to be able to play in weekly tournaments too much but I do plan on working on this deck still. Cards I'm looking at for the SB:

Vapor Snag
Chain of Vapor
Disenchant


I've been very unhappy with Spell Pierce. But then again it could be just because of smaller tournaments so IDK and will test it out some.

[Plm]

I did test the deck with devil as the 4th creature and it as been really vexing.
It never made a difference (I mean I could have played lava spike and have the same win I had), except on late game when it was a creature and got its ass handled fast! (that's all my losses of the 2 last weeks, I hate him, and love this deck :cool:)

People play dismember, here they are up a card and a mana (comparing to dismember, just to be clear) because nobody is going to let you have a turn 1 or 2 4/3 for :1: :frown:.

Yeah in burn 4 damage lava spike is good, I know. But any other creature of the deck is better the first turns. Any burn of the deck is better when I'm trying to toast my opponent because this devil don't do damage late game (it really pissed me to loose games top decking it on the fundamental turn and loose when when shock would have won me the game).

I can't see a situation where the devil would make more than 4 damages, but I faced games where it did none (and that's the game I lost), so I won't preorder my playset.

Also browbeat...


On the other hand, wrath is great, I tested with 2 , and am going to implement that to 4, because that is that good.
To complement brainstorm in the moving that miracle of my hand business, I plan on testing a one of lightning Axe.
Yeah I know CDA and stuff, but miracle in starting hand already being dead card , and land and critters being dead late game, I thought it might give me a 5th outlet. " EDIT : it Axe is bad, cannot be used as reach, will remove it for the 3rd forked bolt "

After getting an overdose of thalia, I did throw my magma jet across the room (stuck with 2 land, no burn in hand, draw the 3 jet and died horribly). I did swap it for forked bolt.
Upside : some time you kill 2 dorks(maverick, elves, lingering souls), some time you get to do 1 to the face and kill a dork, you're now officially spell snare proof!

down side : ritual sucks hairyballs, you have less library manipulation, chalice and CB are bitches.

I think I will test it further.

Here's what I be testing :

11 fetches
3 volcanic
2 plateau
1 tundra
1 mountain

12 obvious creatures
2 lavamancer
2 phantasmal bear (yeah I know, still looking for a better substitute)

4 brainstorm
4 daze

8 regular bolt
4 thunderous wrath
0 lightning Axe
3 rift bolt
3 forked bolt


that's 59 burn damage if I didn't miscount, quite a lot!

[Vacrix]

People play dismember, here they are up a card and a mana (comparing to dismember, just to be clear) because nobody is going to let you have a turn 1 or 2 4/3 for :1: :frown:.

Yeah in burn 4 damage lava spike is good, I know. But any other creature of the deck is better the first turns. Any burn of the deck is better when I'm trying to toast my opponent because this devil don't do damage late game (it really pissed me to loose games top decking it on the fundamental turn and loose when when shock would have won me the game).

I can't see a situation where the devil would make more than 4 damages, but I faced games where it did none (and that's the game I lost), so I won't preorder my playset
If your opponent is paying 4 life to dismember it.. thats actually kinda hilarious.

Don't consider Vexing Devil a creature, because it isn't. Its one of the few cards that in terms of strategy is either a creature or a burn spell. Your opponent gets to choose. It will always be a creature when your opponent is at 4 life sitting on a Swords. It will always be a burn spell when your opponent just played their first land and has no removal to speak of. Either way, its going to be 4 damage for R and thats on par with Goblin Guide at R for 4-6 damage (usually). Occasionally it will be way better than the R for 4 damage, at least in our build, because we can take advantage of Daze on an early removal spell.

[Plm]

I didn't meant that people dismembered it, I tried to say that dismember is played, and this card comes with a built on dismember better than the original .

At first my friends tried to let it stay and sword it, but after a few games and a few dazes they learned that 4 damage is a fair trade to remove it early game.

the only time when they didn't were when a 4/3 body didn't mater ( whereas a mere lava spike would have been golden ).

It would be stupid to let it be a 4/3 that can do quite a lot of damage, when you can take a hit and be done. It also would be stupid to take 4 when you got maze, or goyf, or elspeth, or some souls or an army of elves, or adn in hand (those are real life, painfull memories. Well if you can include magic as real life:tongue:)

"Either way, its going to be 4 damage for R "



Well , no some time it is 0 damage for R, and that's what pissed me.
It never was what I wanted it to be, browbeat all over again. I would have been better of with lava spike.

[Brushwagg]

@Devil: I feel it's worth testing out but, I'm not preordering a play set. I have a strong feeling that they are going to drop. As for Thunderous Wrath I did order a play set, but it was also pretty cheap.

@Plm: I do have a few questions about your list though. Lightning Axe?? This can't hit the opponent which all burn should be able to. Also Have you tried Magma Jet?? This could take the place of Lightning Axe and Forked Bolt. The Scry ability comes in very handy.

[Vacrix]

I didn't meant that people dismembered it, I tried to say that dismember is played, and this card comes with a built on dismember better than the original .

At first my friends tried to let it stay and sword it, but after a few games and a few dazes they learned that 4 damage is a fair trade to remove it early game.

the only time when they didn't were when a 4/3 body didn't mater ( whereas a mere lava spike would have been golden ).

It would be stupid to let it be a 4/3 that can do quite a lot of damage, when you can take a hit and be done. It also would be stupid to take 4 when you got maze, or goyf, or elspeth, or some souls or an army of elves, or adn in hand (those are real life, painfull memories. Well if you can include magic as real life:tongue:)

"Either way, its going to be 4 damage for R "



Well , no some time it is 0 damage for R, and that's what pissed me.
It never was what I wanted it to be, browbeat all over again. I would have been better of with lava spike.
The same can be said of any of the other creatures. Sometimes they eat removal spells and are 1 mana investments for 0 damage. Thats not a drawback to the card. Its nothing like Browbeat.

[Plm]

@ lightning Axe : my bad, thought it could be aimed at the dome, disregard it , I will change that for the 3rd forked bolt.

@ devil could eat removal like just any other critters , yeah but other critter can (and most of the time will) do more than 4 damages, I just wish I could play 8 linx or 8 delver.

@forked bolt instead of magma jet : I played magma jet before, but thalia is so frustrating, and spell snare is everywhere. So I made the change in that order.
To summarize this decision, I would say that it's just a metagame preference but for now I'd rather have forked bolt vs the big 3.
Vs maverick (which infest my meta) you gain the option of 2 for 1, and it is much more easy to play in the face of thalia and waste.
Vs canadian, you blank spell snare, and it's easier to play in the face of stifle,waste, daze.
Vs stoneblade, spellsnare again, waste land again (seeing a patern here ?), and kill those pesky spirits for linx and delver to hit.

I'm not saying that the card is better, just that my match up Vs the big 3 improved with that simple change. Again choice meta dependent. And it's by no means a definite choice, just testing guys (but I have a tournament the 6 of may and will want a good decklist by then).

[Vacrix]

Forked Bolt is more of a Sligh-esque card. I guess it could be run but I think Magma Jet is way better. Fixing the top 2 cards is pretty crucial when you want to play reach spells to finish off the last few life points.

[Brushwagg]

Yes missed the Thalia thing. But still after one game I wouldn't cut it. Yes Maverick can be a tough match-up. You have to keep a fast hand and get some luck on your side.

@Other 1 drops: I've looked and we are using the best of them right now. I'm not sold on Bear and still won't use it but that's me.

If you want something to replace Bear though you could try Tattermunge Maniac. Still as fragile as Bear though. Another card I was looking at was Reckless Waif, but I don't think it will ever flip.

[prgmctan]

What about Stromkirk Noble? I might test it today if I can find them.

[Vacrix]

Perhaps if you can't afford Vexing Devil's or something but its too slow to compliment the rest of the deck's clock.

[Brushwagg]

So I decided to cut Spell Pierce from the SB. It's been nothing but terrible for me. Not toally sure what I'm going to put in there place but I'm adding Disenchant to the SB and I cut a Plateau for a Tundra. I also reconfigured my fetches, this should take away some of the awkward hands I would get.

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Arid Mesa
2x Flooded Strand
4x Volcanic Island
1x Plateau
1x Tundra
1x Mountain
1x Island

I Still like the basics.

SB: Going to try to get some Sulfuric Vortex but for now
3x Leyline of Punishment
3x Price of Progress
3x Shattering Spree
2x Disenchant
2x Tormod's Crypt

2 Open spaces for I'm not sure. Pyroblast or something to the like might make it in. I'm not sure or more grave hate. Chain of Vapor or Vapor Snag seem like they could fit as well.

[Vacrix]

Hanni could you do a brief matchup analysis? I keep thinking of suggesting different things but I think we'd get more done if we focused our discussion on the matchups that need the most improvement. That way, we might uncover some tech.

[Brushwagg]

Hanni could you do a brief matchup analysis? I keep thinking of suggesting different things but I think we'd get more done if we focused our discussion on the matchups that need the most improvement. That way, we might uncover some tech.

The hardest match-up I've come up aganist is Nic-Fit (god I hate that name). It always felt I was behind, I guess thats the point. But really has alot of tools against us. Deed is huge!!

Mav isn't too much fun either but I feel it's a little easier then Nic-Fit, just on the fact that there isn't Deed and they're not dropping 3 lands a turn on you. However the ground can get clogged up fast if you don't end the game quick.

Sneak Show: Pretty much burn them and hope they don't open S&T and Emrakul.


The one card I really don't want to see ever though is Counterbalance. If that card starts seeing play again this U/R Delver might as well turn the lights off and lock the doors.

[kiblast]

Considering the weight of Maverick in current meta, is there a reason why this deck doesn't run Fire/Ice? Also, now that Thresh is played again, the possibility to clear one blocker vs a deck which plays 10-12 creatures seems very good (except Nimble Mongoose). Kills both the tokens opponent gets from Lingering Souls. To me is way better than Magma Jet.

Also, and I don't know if it's a pro or not, rises your blue count and lets you play FoW in sb, which is a thing personally I like, but I don't know if I really want to pitch business when I can play Flusterstorm or Spell Pierce instead.

That's what I'm testing at the moment:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [U] Plateau
1 [U] Tundra
1 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx
4 [AVR] Vexing Devil
4 [INN] Delver of Secrets

// Spells
4 [NE] Daze
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
3 [VI] Fireblast
3 [LRW] Ponder
4 [AP] Fire/Ice

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [MM] Disenchant
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce


So far I'm happy with Meddling Mage. Proved to be very good vs Storm and Sneaky Show / Snt decks.

[oRen]

The times you trade 2 vs 1 with Fire/Ice are limited and the card is really expansive vs Thalia. I would rather run Forked Bolt.
Also Magma Jet and Ponder fight over the same slot not Magma Jet and random burn.

[kiblast]

The times you trade 2 vs 1 with Fire/Ice are limited and the card is really expansive vs Thalia. I would rather run Forked Bolt.
Also Magma Jet and Ponder fight over the same slot not Magma Jet and random burn.

Well Thalia is just a 2-3x in Maverick lists. Forked Bolt is a decent alternative in any case, but considering Vexing Devil, the possibility of clearing the blocker for one turn with Ice, dealing 4 and drawing a card seems really interesting (just like thresh used to do back then with Goyfs when they played F/I). Moreover F/I is an istant. Lets you burn down small dudes in response of paying Jitte equip cost, which is nice. Also taps Batterskull Germ.

I agree that Ponder and Magma jet fights for the same slots ''card filtering/quality 5-7/8''. I prefer Ponder but is just a matter of taste.

[ScatmanX]

Tested Vexing Devil 3 days now, and it sucked EVERY time. The best moment you can cast it is T1, but T1 you prefer to play Delver, Lynx or Guide. After that, he is just bad, and ALL the times I drew it, I wish he was Lava Spike.
Seriously, I think it does not belong here.

[Greenpoe]

Tested Vexing Devil 3 days now, and it sucked EVERY time. The best moment you can cast it is T1, but T1 you prefer to play Delver, Lynx or Guide. After that, he is just bad, and ALL the times I drew it, I wish he was Lava Spike.
Seriously, I think it does not belong here.

This makes sense. In all reality, he's at best 1 damage more than a Lava Spike. When you're running 2-3 colors and the fastest creatures in the format, it makes sense that Vexing Devil be just a Browbeat here. Definitely not in the 3-color builds, that's for sure.

[Plm]

Totally agreed on devil, glad to see someone whose testing gave results confirming mine.

@ fire/ice, I'd rather have forked bolt, it helps a lot vs maverick, and if you know a elvish master, it's golden.

I also agree that the 5-7 library manipulation should stay library manipulation and not become burn. magma jet does both purpose but badly :frown:.
I sleeved my portent again (because it enable miracle bolt, during opp upkeep)and for the first time I found them supperior to ponder (not mentioning that old frame is much better)


Miracle bolt is so good, play 4 !

[David Kaplan]

Ya I'm double posting. But this was in the U/R delver thread posted by Kirch867.



I see that deck and this deck probably becoming one in the same. I mean drop the Ponder and add in Magma Jet. What are people's thought on Steppe Lynx? Cutable?? Play 2-3??

Turn 1, Lynx beats Devil. Turn 2, Devil wins. You are seeing an average of one land every three turns, say two turns with Brainstorm/Ponder manipulation. If you draw lynx on turn two, are you holding back your second land if you do not have a Sac land/Ponder/Brainstorm for Lynx next turn? Is it worth cutting White?

//Manipulation
4 Brainstorm

//Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil

//Burn
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
1 Grim Lavamancer/Thunderous Wrath

//Land
3 Mountain
4 Volcanic Island
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Scalding Tarn

//Sideboard
3 Smash to Smithereens
4 Submerge
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Searing Blaze
3 Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast
Sulfuric Vortex
Spell Pierce
Tormod's Crypt/Faerie Macabre

[mcfarland]

Re: Vexing Devil

I've had the exact opposite experience that most of your guys have had. It's been bonkers for me.

First off, I don't think of it as a body. Don't replace the deck's beaters with Vexing Devil, because most of the time it's going to be (R = 4 to the dome). These builds need cheap, efficient threats on the board during the first turns, and Devil won't do that.

Also, as mentioned earlier, he gains value as the game goes on. Don't drop him T1. An opponent sitting on 20 life isn't going to miss the 4 if it means they can rob you of your first turn. The more life the opponent has, the less pressure the card produces. It's body (4/3) is big enough to provide some actual board presence in the mid-game, as well, which is something that these decks usually lack.

To summarize, let your opponent plow, path, and bolt your other threats. On turn 3 or 4, when they're sitting at 10 life and no removal, Vexing Devil is fucking bonkers.

For reference, here's my list. I'm not playing the white-splash atm:


// Lands
7 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Vexing Devil
3 Phantasmal Bear

// Spells
3 Fireblast
4 Brainstorm
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Daze
3 Thunderous Wrath

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex

[Brushwagg]

Starting to see U/R Delver list here. I've been on the fence about Steppe Lynx. As of late it's been great for me. Seeing it in the first few turns of the game is pretty good. If you can keep feeding it's even better, but there can also be the problem feeding it. Now I haven't done testing with Devil as of yet, but I can see both sides to the argument. I'm wondering if we can squeeze Devil, Lynx, and Grim all in?

[Vacrix]

Vexing Devil does seem pretty brutal closer to 10 life because that puts your opponent within reach range, and they won't have a good idea as to whats in the rest of your hand. That makes the card much harder to play against. At 6 life, you could easily finish them off in the same turn.

Then again, there are probably scenarios where you want to Burn them out as soon as possible, and first turn Devil is the optimal play. For example, they might have the opportunity to play cantrips into removal and if the rest of your hand is burn, a R for 4 damage burn spell compliments that hand rather nicely while a single creature does not.


In regards to our weaker matchups, SnT, Nic-Fit, and to a certain extent Reanimator (if they aren't Reanimating into their win con, Iona is Brutal)...

I played an experimental board for a while that looked something like this to good effect:

SB
3 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Disenchant
2 Shattering Spree
2 Surgical Extraction

It worked pretty well. I had an easy time beating SnT with it, played a number of matches. I haven't run into too much Nic-Fit online, and when I do I'm always playing Stasis for some reason.

[Anusien]

If they have cantrips into removal, won't they just let Devil be a guy and kill it?

[Kich867]

If they have cantrips into removal, won't they just let Devil be a guy and kill it?

It's a really hard call to make--they have cantrips. Whether it hits removal is not up to them. Letting this guy live is often too dangerous.

I also, really need to make this point clear. What you want vexing devil to be and what he actually is doesn't matter. The constant reference to wanting him to be lava spike I see fundamentally doesn't make sense, it's an impossible desire unless you strictly went:

-4 Lava Spike
+4 Vexing Devil

But generally people are dropping creatures for this slot, I mean, I would almost exclusively drop grim lavamancer for him.

So when you say: "Well he's better off as a lava spike"--you're actually saying something along the lines of wanting a creature slot to be a burn slot. It'd be like saying that drawing grim lavamancer should really be drawing a lava spike, but no one seems to really complain much about that. If however, you were to argue that running just Guide, Delver, and replacing the third creature slot with burn is the correct choice, I think there's discussion to be had there, but when addressing a creature it's misleading to both the argument and yourself to say that you wish it was something that the slot wasn't to begin with.

The most common reaction I'm seeing to the card is that you could draw a burn instead of it, but that's generally not the case unless you're actually replacing burn with this card, which I don't believe is correct. If you aren't replacing burn, you can't say that you would rather the card be a burn, just like how when you swap a land for another land, drawing that new land can't be blamed for not drawing a burn--it's not what that slot was, and given the previous list, you would have just drawn whatever land that land replaced, not a burn.

In the same vein, when you draw vexing devil, the correct question / comparison is "Should this be a grim lavamancer, did I want a grim lavamancer, is this better than grim lavamancer?" type questions.

[Vacrix]

In the same vein, when you draw vexing devil, the correct question / comparison is "Should this be a grim lavamancer, did I want a grim lavamancer, is this better than grim lavamancer?" type questions.
This is the question people should ask in playtesting. I often take notes like this when I'm testing one card instead of another.

[Tombstalker]

With the printing of devil is proclamation of rebirth worth considering as a finisher of sorts? Or value card like sylvan library/loam etc? Probably too mana intensive but it could be pretty powerful in this deck. Bringing back 3 devils would be pretty insane, same with 3 hasty guides, hell even 3 lynx or delvers could be a beating if you stall out.

[Vacrix]

Proc was discussed and it simply costs too much for what it does.. Sulfuric Vortex is better for metagaming against decks that play Batterskull if you are going to pay 3 mana.

[ajfennewald]

4 scalding tarn
4 wooded foothills
4 arid mesa
3 volcaninc island
2 plateau
1 tundra
1 mountain

3 daze
2 spell snare

4 brainstorm
2 ponder

2 sulfuric vortex

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 rift bolt
2 forked bolt

4 goblin guild
4 delver of secrets
4 steppe lynx
2 grim lavamancer

sb
4 Force of Will
4 spell peirce
2 sulfuric vortex
2 disenchant
3 tormods crypt

This is my attempt to metagame the deck for the local meta. It typical is as follows:
1-2 G/W maverick
1 BUW stoneblade
1-2 AnT
1 combo elvers
1 enchantress
0-1 RUG
1 reanaimator
0-1 Eureka/show and tell
1 landstill
1 dredge
3-4 other random things

Given the prevalence of combo I included transformation sideboard to aggro control.
VOrtex is in the main because it is good against all the non combo decks

[Brushwagg]

I'd drop the MD Snares, Ponders, and Vortex. Get some more burn into the the deck. Thunderous Wrath should find a way into the deck. I think the jury is still out on Vexing Devil, I personally haven't had a chance to test it.

What you should be doing is meta gaming your SB for your meta not the whole deck. The clock this deck can put on is fast and you force the other deck to deal with it.

I would start with something like this:

3-4x Pyroblast/REB
3x Fairy Maccombre/Surgical Extraction
3x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Disenchant
2x Shattering Spree
2x Spell Snare/Spell Pierce.

[kicks_422]

Need help on a somewhat budget manabase.

As of now, I can only stretch my "hobby money" to 2 duals, so I can't exactly copy the manabase most of you have posted. How's this for a replacement though?

4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau

I don't run Daze. I only run 4 white cards MD and 8 blue cards MD. 4 white cards SB and 4 blue cards SB.

This manabase has been working pretty OK for me. I was just wondering if any of you could recommend something else.

[Kich867]

Need help on a somewhat budget manabase.

As of now, I can only stretch my "hobby money" to 2 duals, so I can't exactly copy the manabase most of you have posted. How's this for a replacement though?

4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau

I don't run Daze. I only run 4 white cards MD and 8 blue cards MD. 4 white cards SB and 4 blue cards SB.

This manabase has been working pretty OK for me. I was just wondering if any of you could recommend something else.

I would undoubtedly drop a mountain for an island, just in case.

[learntolove6]

i think you should drop some fetches. 8-9 seems optimal, even with your budget mana base

[kicks_422]

@Kich867: I used to run 2 Mountain, 1 Island, 1 Plains. The non-Mountains proved to be very lackluster, especially the Plains. I'll try it with only the Island though.

@learntolove6: The deck runs Steppe Lynx. If I could run more fetches I probably would.

[Kich867]

@Kich867: I used to run 2 Mountain, 1 Island, 1 Plains. The non-Mountains proved to be very lackluster, especially the Plains. I'll try it with only the Island though.

@learntolove6: The deck runs Steppe Lynx. If I could run more fetches I probably would.

I only say that because a single wasteland means you can't cast brainstorm and that's sketchy.

[kicks_422]

Yup, that has happened a few times. Waste one of my duals and I'm cut off from that color completely. However, I just feel that I'd rather not be able to cast Brainstorm than not be able to cast burn.

All that said, yeah, I'll still try running an Island.

[Brushwagg]

I run one Basic Island. Really what it come down to is the most of the time the Duals are just Mountains anyways. A large portion of the time I tap them only for Red.

[Hanni]

No more love for Blue Sligh? This thread was booming the last time I logged onto The Source.

Anyway, I finally got around to downloading the AVR patch and did some playtesting.

Thunderous Wrath is absurd. :r: for 5 damage is, simply put, exceptional for closing out games. I don't even mind getting one stuck in my opening hand... I mean, it's not preferable obviously, but a topdecked Brainstorm not only fixes my hand/draws gas/etc, but it means I'm also hitting my opponent with a :r: for 5 next turn.

Between Fireblast and Thunderous Wrath, there's a whole lot of "more than 3 damage" burn spells in the deck now. Basically, the reach was already phenomenal, but now the reach is even greater.

I'm not sure about Vexing Devil yet, but I'm thinking that it's better than Phantasmal Bear. Early, it's probably doing 4 damage for :r:. Bear is usually a :u: for 4 damage creature when resolved on turn 1, occasionally a :u: for 6+ damage (not very often), but can also be :u: for 0-2 damage. Midgame, both are pretty bad, but 4/3 for :r: is alot better than a 2/2 for :u:

Basically, if you look at this deck as a hyper effecient Burn deck, which is what it is, Devil isn't bad. I would much rather have a 3/1 for :r: with no drawbacks, but I don't see that happening.

How do I fit the new cards in, though? Well, it was a tough call. I decided to cut 2 Bears for 2 Devils for testing purposes, doing a 2/2 split with Lavamancer. In order to fit Wrath... well...

I... cut... Magma Jet. Wtf? Wasn't I pushing for this card so hard? Yes, yes I was. It's still a fantastic card, enabling greater consistency, especially with Delver and Lynx. However, it's also somewhat of a tempo sink, so it has pros and cons. Ultimately, I felt as though the deck was already incredibly consistent. Thunderous Wrath adds additional redunancy to the "deal 20" gameplan, and Jet doesn't improve Wrath. So I cut 3 Jet for 3 Wrath for playtesting purposes. I'm not entirely sure whether or not I should find a way to add Jet back in, but I'm positive that keeping 3 Wrath is the right call.

Here's my list, for reference:

R/U/w Blue Sligh

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [U] Plateau
1 [U] Tundra
1 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
2 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
2 [AVR] Vexing Devil
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx

// Spells
4 [NE] Daze
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
3 [AVR] Thunderous Wrath
3 [VI] Fireblast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [EX] Price of Progress
SB: 2 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 2 [TE] Disenchant
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

[Vacrix]

I think not running the playset of Vexing Devils is a good call actually. Theres no need to endure games where you might draw multiples in the mid game when you might run into removal when you need a reach spell.

Finals are ending this week so I'll be able to pick this deck up again on Cockatrice. It and Turbo Eldrazi are by far the most fun I've had playing magic decks I don't own on Cockatrice/MWS.

I honestly don't like Fireblast AND Thunderous Wrath though. I guess it could be good but you don't want to be running too many cards that can clog up your hand with stuff that you can't cast or force you to wait on a Brainstorm. I'll certainly test it but I'm guessing that Lava Spike is going to replace Wrath in my build.

[Hanni]

I've had the opposite feelings towards running both Wrath and Fireblast. They might clog early hands, but Fireblast will get cast at some point as a finisher, for free and for 4 damage. Wrath getting clogged in the opening hand is the drawback for being able to do 5 damage for a single mana.

I just cannot express how strong topdecking a Wrath and following it up with the Fireblast that was clogged in hand is. 9 damage out of nowhere for a single mana invested closes games out quickly, and it's pretty easy to do the initial 11 damage with this deck, especially if an opponent cracks a couple of fetchlands.

I know that relying on Brainstorm is sketchy, but Brainstorm does fix hands with multiple Blast/Wrath, and you should be mulliganing a hand with more than 1 each anyway.

[Brushwagg]

I'm busy with family on the nights of our local tournies for another month or so I haven't played much. I will be rocking this deck though at an up coming GP trial.

The list I settled on is.

4x Goblin Guide
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Grim Lavamancer

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Rift Bolt
3x Magma Jet
2x Thunderous Wrath
1x Fireblast
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
2x Temporal Mastery

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Arid Mesa
2x Flooded Strand
4x Volcanic Island
1x Plateau
1x Tundra
1x Mountain
1x Island

SB
3x Sulfuric Vortex
3x Price of Progress
3x Pyroblast
2x Shattering Spree
2x Disenchant
2x Graveyard hate (unknown what yet)

@ Temporal Mastery: Ok so I opened one and got a really good deal on another at the pre-release and I couldn't help myself. The theory of the card is, this deck is so fast if you can steal a turn it gives your opponent one less draw for an out or you can just end the game. Still needs more testing and these are flex spots for me.

@Vexing Devil:I'm not sold on him, but I also haven't had a chance to test it either.

@Wrath/Blast: I like the split I have right now. I was running 3x Wrath but there were times in the testing I did opening a wrath with a good hand was terrible so I cut 1 and put Fireblast back in.

[Hanni]

If you open a good hand with Wrath, you should keep the hand. If you never see Brainstorm, that sucks, but the rest of the deck should carry you. If you topdeck another Wrath during the course of the game, you do 5 damage for a single mana. So the one in hand becomes worth 2.5 damage, and the one you topdecked becomes worth 2.5 damage, which is less than a Lightning Bolt obviously, but you still paid a single red mana and two spells for 5 damage, which isn't horrible.

Maybe that isn't the best way to look at it, but the amount of times you get one in the opening hand and never see Brainstorm vs the amount of times you either have/draw a Brainstorm, or topdeck another Wrath in the midgame, compensates for it, IMO. I'm not sure what the statistical probability of drawing a 3-of in a 60 card deck in your opening hand is offhand, but it hasn't happened that frequently to me so far in playtesting.

If you don't draw one in the opener, the card is a sick topdeck.

I just had a game earlier where I topdecked two Wrath's in a row and my opponent laughed and 'Player Lost' me. Pretty satisfying if you ask me.

[subzero]

hi guys

i back at this deck, because tried to put out white, for play vexind devil, instead lynx, but i really prefear lynx, beacuse is all time creature, and not is only lava spike for 4 damage at first turn, and creature only when is not good


so, i won some little tournamnt with this deck, and yes, it can do very good race againts big creature too

[sillyandrew]

lightning helix is stupid good. why don't any of these recent lists run it? a six life swing is a pretty big deal sometimes, and at the very least, it helps mitigate fetch land damage. instant speed is hella good too - I'd almost up the white a little bit in the mana base, and drop chain lightning for it.

[Brushwagg]

lightning helix is stupid good. why don't any of these recent lists run it? a six life swing is a pretty big deal sometimes, and at the very least, it helps mitigate fetch land damage. instant speed is hella good too - I'd almost up the white a little bit in the mana base, and drop chain lightning for it.

The big reason is the casting cost of WR. Chain Lightning is R. White is a very small splash and there are a lot of games I don't even fetch for a White source. Also the life gain isn't really needed.

[Mirrislegend]

I've always been interested in a blue based Sligh deck in this format, but Delver Burn always seemed too inconsistent and underpowerered (Goblin Guide and Delver vs Goyfs and KotR? Seems fail). I ran into this list and I desperately want to play it. High threat density and Grunt provides great card quality alongside Gofy-level beats. Also, Gitax Probe seems awesome when you're packing such a slim and conditional counterspell package

http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8626&iddeck=62943

To be honest, I'd probably rework the whole sideboard, including a whole set FoWs, just to beat combo, and other changes

Also, I noticed some tech that's been floating around: Vapor Snag
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8666&iddeck=63231
I'm not sure it's worthwhile in a red version of Delver, but it is new and techy and snazzy

[Anusien]

Vapor Snag seems very good in decks that can't run Lightning Bolt instead.

[subzero]

hi guys

i played this deck in some touranemnt with very good results.

but was some weeks that i never play it,

someone played at touranemnet?
about match up against sneak attack?

[Vacrix]

If I had the duals and fetches in these colors, I'd play this deck all the time.

Sneak Show vs. Blue Sligh matchup? Well this deck can win turn 3 and has a very consistent turn 4. This deck plays a lot of cards that other decks play so an opponent might mistake it for UR Delver and try to get an extra protection spell. If they put you on Burn then Daze can come out of know where to counter their enabler. Grieselbrand probably isn't going to draw them any cards unless he swings first via Sneak Attack. Show and Tell is actually the weaker card here IMO. It lets you drop an additional creature and they have to pass the turn. You can potentially just blow them out with reach when you untap.

In general though, I'd say its a race. Post-board you can roll with Spell Pierces, at least I run the playset in my board (on Cockatrice). 8 countermagic should give you a solid answer to their enabler if not two on top of a savage clock.

[Mirrislegend]

For the Sneak + Show matchup, try to race. You have just enough countermagic to slow them down. Post-board, cut the Grim Lavamancers, if you're playing them, and race hard

[subzero]

hi guys.
sorry if i make some error in my words

i play again, after some mothes,this deck.
i played this deck for some tournament.and really almost all time i arrived in top,

i think is very fast strong deck,of course not famous big result,because is absolutely not famous deck,
but i think is better than classic ur delver.

of course is a sligh concept with cantrip

who played it in a big tournament?i d like see report and ideas, for make me a better player of deck

[BlackStarDeceiver]

I lost my deciding round at GP Ghent against a GeistDelverBurn list played by Kristian Heibing from Denmark. He made day two i think but missed on money.

Sulfur Elemental alongside Geist of Saint Traft is no joke.

[Brushwagg]

Well I have really no time to play regually right now, due to work (gotta pay the bills), but I play a few games the past weekend and it got me thinking. I was having a problem with bad top decks and the Temporal Mastery didn't seem to be doing what I want. Not a dead cause but..

This list is what I came up with:

4x Delver of Secrets
4x Goblin Guide
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Grim Lavamancer

4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
1x Portent

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Thunderous Wrath
3x Rift Bolt
2x Magma Jet

4x Daze

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Arid Mesa
2x Flooded Strand
4x Volcanic Island
1x Plateau
1x Tundra
1x Mountain
1x Island

Possible SB
3x Force of Will
2x Price of Progress
3x Sulfuric Vortex
3x Shattering Spree
3x Surgical Extraction
1x ??? or move some numbers around. Sulfer elemental is possible.

I see Grim, Magma Jet and the maybe the Portent as flexible slots. I would still like to play Temporal Mastery and it might find a way in by the next Juipter.

[Mirrislegend]

Well I have really no time to play regually right now, due to work (gotta pay the bills), but I play a few games the past weekend and it got me thinking. I was having a problem with bad top decks and the Temporal Mastery didn't seem to be doing what I want. Not a dead cause but..

This list is what I came up with:

4x Delver of Secrets
4x Goblin Guide
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Grim Lavamancer

4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
1x Portent

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Thunderous Wrath
3x Rift Bolt
2x Magama Jet

4x Daze

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Arid Mesa
2x Flooded Strand
4x Volcanic Island
1x Plateau
1x Tundra
1x Mountain
1x Island

Possible SB
3x Force of Will
2x Price of Progress
3x Sulfuric Vortex
3x Shattering Spree
3x Surgical Extraction
1x ??? or move some numbers around. Sulfer elemental is possible.

I see Grim, Magma Jet and the maybe the Portent as flexible slots. I would still like to play Temporal Mastery and it might find a way in by the next Juipter.

Is the white splash worth it for Steppe Lynx and nothing else?

[Brushwagg]

Is the white splash worth it for Steppe Lynx and nothing else?

Pretty much. It's been that way pretty much the whole thread. I was wasn't sold on it at first, but Lynx is pretty good. I saw the list with Grunt, and been thinking about it but not sure if he's worth it. The mana base for this deck is already pretty greedy, and adding in Grunt I think you need to add another white source (Plateau). I've also been thinking of Snapcaster for the flex spots but I haven't tested it at all so I'm not sure.

[Kich867]

In decks like these snapcasters find themselves in an awkward role. I personally always wished they were a bolt when I drew them, but occasionally, being able to EOT flash a bolt in and swing for an extra 2 on your untap with a creature they weren't prepared for works out. The biggest problem, I find, is that you can only really play them turn 3 on. If you have one or two in your opening hand, you might as well mulligan.

[Brushwagg]

I'm not looking to play 4, maybe 2 in play of the Magma Jets?? They would go in the flex spots of the deck.

4x Delver
4x Guide
4x Lynx
2x Grim
2x Snaps

Hell I'm still considering the 1x Fireblast for a finisher.

[ntropy]

Hey everyone, long-time lurker and stealer of tech, it's about time I returned the favor. I took this deck to GenCon as a backup plan if I wasn't feeling Belcher. After scrubbing hard in a prelim, I decided to go for it. I ended up in 61st place out of 360something players. There were a LOT of drops, likely due to the huge number of other ways to spend your time and money at GenCon, so my 4-3 drop was good enough to get there! I skipped the last two rounds to play in some wacky sealed event, other wise I'd have placed higher. Anyways the list and a mini report:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver Of Secrets
4 Vexing Devil
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fire//Ice
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Fireblast

7 Mountain
1 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard:

3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Price of Progress
3 Pyroblast
2 Force Of Will
4 Spell Pierce

Quick notes on my build: I love Vexing Devil, haters gonna hate, but he ran hot all day. Fire//Ice is in my opinion the obvious choice for burn spells 13-16. It two for ones vs many decks, taps down blockers and City of Traitors, cycles in a pinch, and pitches to Force of Will. (Rules note: Fire can kill Goblin Piledriver, it's only blue in your hand! Good to know!) The sideboard was decent. I should have run Surgical Extractions, but I forgot it existed for a minute - oh well.

10 am Saturday at GenCon, Let the Games begin! My notes are a little scrambled, so if my math doesn't add up, sorry.

Round 1 vs Gil Asmus, playing S+T/Dream Halls/Omniscience/Conflux Combo 2-0

I opened on the draw with Delver followed by Chain and Rift Bolt turn 2. Turn 3 Lavamancer, Vexing Devil, Vexing Devil meets Force meets Daze. At this point he Show and Tells dropping Griselbrand. He's at 6 life. I Bolt and pass the turn, holding back Insectile Aberration and Lavamancer. He swings, I block with Aberration and shoot it to dodge the lifelink. Topdeck Fire//Ice for the win.

Out 2 Rift bolt, 1 ponder, in 3 Pyroblast.

Game 2 he opens on Leyline of Sanctity. I drop Goblin Guide and get in there. I daze his first two spells, whatever they were, then I brainstorm. The next turn sees double Vexing Devil and Pyroblasting his EOT Intuition. He blanks on his draw and scoops.

If I can win through Griselbrand and Leyline of Sanctity with burn, I'm doing OK.

Round 2 vs. Brendan Conway with UW Miracles 2-0

I mul to 5 on the play. Guide followed by delver get in for a bunch. He sets up CB/Top. then Terminus He cracks a fetch, goes to 5, cracks another, Fireblast in response, GG

Game 2 opens on Goblin Guide again. Vexing devil meets hydroblast. Guide shows me his terminus so I sandbag my second guide, suspending 2 rift bolts instead. Terminus resolves, I follow with Guide and delver. He has CB, but no top. I play carefully with Guide to resolve my Brainstorms and take it home.

Round 3 vs Justin Adams with mono red Goblins 2-1

I mul to 5 on the draw, but triple goblin guides keep his war marshal and pile driver on the defensive. I flip a delver and it goes the distance.

Out rift bolts, in Price of progress.

Game 2 he mulligans. I race my my creatures directly into a Pyrokinesis 3 for 1 blowout, and never recover.

Game 3 I race a losing race against Krenko until he taps his wasteland. Price of Progress gets in for 6 with me on 2 life and him on 5.


Round 4 vs Jason with RUG Delver 2-1

My notes here are a tangled mess but at the bottom it says, "Everything counters everything until Price of Progress wins games" I lost game two by punting my mulligan decision. Worst Keep Ever.

Round 5 vs Jonathan Morris with Dredge 1-2

At this point I'm sitting down to round 5 at the top tables, with a 4-0 record. High point of the weekend, without a doubt.

Game 1 I daze his Putrid Imp, and his Careful Study, but he pays with a LED and goes off. Dredge Dredges.

My sideboard plan against dredge is to bring in forces and pierces to counter his discard spells, and race for the finish. He'll be expecting me to bring in crypts or something, and slow his deck down with counter-hate.

Game 2 I Mul to 5, while he mulls to 6 and keeps a slow dredge plan. Weird. I blow him out with Guide, triple bolts, delver, and fireblast.

Game 3 He grinds me out with Ichorids. I made the mistake of keeping a Daze hand when I needed a Force of Will hand.

Round 6 vs Chris with RUG Delver 0-2

He beats me at one life and then again at two life. Sometimes it doesn't quite get there...

Round 7 vs Joshua Lewis with Omniscience combo 1-2

Game 1 I'm on the draw, with an unflipped delver and a goblin guide getting in there, His protected Show and tell is good.

Game 2 My notes show his life total dwindling and nothing else, I think he kept a loose hand here and got mana screwed.

Game 3 I punt this one when I forget to Ice his City of Traitors on turn 2 and he goes off before I am ready. I cycled my Ice looking for a Daze, but no Dice.

At this point I'm feeling x-3 is no good, and I've been grinding for like 7.5 hours. I bail to go play wacky sealed and drink whiskey. Turns out enough people dropped out (probably to do the same thing) and my record was good enough for 61st. Sweet.

The long and short of it is I love this deck. No one saw it coming, it was consistently powerful. And it was a breeze to play for 8 hours straight. I want to thank this forum for inspiring me to play it. I also want to thanks all of my opponents for being some of the most pleasant people I met all weekend.

Also, Mad Props to the other burn player, the one with the mono-red build with Hellspark Elementals and Keldon Marauders. Keep making those Stoneblade players cry!

[jonny_rogue]

Hey everyone, long-time lurker and stealer of tech, it's about time I returned the favor. I took this deck to GenCon as a backup plan if I wasn't feeling Belcher. After scrubbing hard in a prelim, I decided to go for it. I ended up in 61st place out of 360something players. There were a LOT of drops, likely due to the huge number of other ways to spend your time and money at GenCon, so my 4-3 drop was good enough to get there! I skipped the last two rounds to play in some wacky sealed event, other wise I'd have placed higher. Anyways the list and a mini report:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver Of Secrets
4 Vexing Devil
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fire//Ice
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Fireblast

7 Mountain
1 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard:

3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Price of Progress
3 Pyroblast
2 Force Of Will
4 Spell Pierce

Quick notes on my build: I love Vexing Devil, haters gonna hate, but he ran hot all day. Fire//Ice is in my opinion the obvious choice for burn spells 13-16. It two for ones vs many decks, taps down blockers and City of Traitors, cycles in a pinch, and pitches to Force of Will. (Rules note: Fire can kill Goblin Piledriver, it's only blue in your hand! Good to know!) The sideboard was decent. I should have run Surgical Extractions, but I forgot it existed for a minute - oh well.

10 am Saturday at GenCon, Let the Games begin! My notes are a little scrambled, so if my math doesn't add up, sorry.

Round 1 vs Gil Asmus, playing S+T/Dream Halls/Omniscience/Conflux Combo 2-0

I opened on the draw with Delver followed by Chain and Rift Bolt turn 2. Turn 3 Lavamancer, Vexing Devil, Vexing Devil meets Force meets Daze. At this point he Show and Tells dropping Griselbrand. He's at 6 life. I Bolt and pass the turn, holding back Insectile Aberration and Lavamancer. He swings, I block with Aberration and shoot it to dodge the lifelink. Topdeck Fire//Ice for the win.

Out 2 Rift bolt, 1 ponder, in 3 Pyroblast.

Game 2 he opens on Leyline of Sanctity. I drop Goblin Guide and get in there. I daze his first two spells, whatever they were, then I brainstorm. The next turn sees double Vexing Devil and Pyroblasting his EOT Intuition. He blanks on his draw and scoops.

If I can win through Griselbrand and Leyline of Sanctity with burn, I'm doing OK.

Round 2 vs. Brendan Conway with UW Miracles 2-0

I mul to 5 on the play. Guide followed by delver get in for a bunch. He sets up CB/Top. then Terminus He cracks a fetch, goes to 5, cracks another, Fireblast in response, GG

Game 2 opens on Goblin Guide again. Vexing devil meets hydroblast. Guide shows me his terminus so I sandbag my second guide, suspending 2 rift bolts instead. Terminus resolves, I follow with Guide and delver. He has CB, but no top. I play carefully with Guide to resolve my Brainstorms and take it home.

Round 3 vs Justin Adams with mono red Goblins 2-1

I mul to 5 on the draw, but triple goblin guides keep his war marshal and pile driver on the defensive. I flip a delver and it goes the distance.

Out rift bolts, in Price of progress.

Game 2 he mulligans. I race my my creatures directly into a Pyrokinesis 3 for 1 blowout, and never recover.

Game 3 I race a losing race against Krenko until he taps his wasteland. Price of Progress gets in for 6 with me on 2 life and him on 5.


Round 4 vs Jason with RUG Delver 2-1

My notes here are a tangled mess but at the bottom it says, "Everything counters everything until Price of Progress wins games" I lost game two by punting my mulligan decision. Worst Keep Ever.

Round 5 vs Jonathan Morris with Dredge 1-2

At this point I'm sitting down to round 5 at the top tables, with a 4-0 record. High point of the weekend, without a doubt.

Game 1 I daze his Putrid Imp, and his Careful Study, but he pays with a LED and goes off. Dredge Dredges.

My sideboard plan against dredge is to bring in forces and pierces to counter his discard spells, and race for the finish. He'll be expecting me to bring in crypts or something, and slow his deck down with counter-hate.

Game 2 I Mul to 5, while he mulls to 6 and keeps a slow dredge plan. Weird. I blow him out with Guide, triple bolts, delver, and fireblast.

Game 3 He grinds me out with Ichorids. I made the mistake of keeping a Daze hand when I needed a Force of Will hand.

Round 6 vs Chris with RUG Delver 0-2

He beats me at one life and then again at two life. Sometimes it doesn't quite get there...

Round 7 vs Joshua Lewis with Omniscience combo 1-2

Game 1 I'm on the draw, with an unflipped delver and a goblin guide getting in there, His protected Show and tell is good.

Game 2 My notes show his life total dwindling and nothing else, I think he kept a loose hand here and got mana screwed.

Game 3 I punt this one when I forget to Ice his City of Traitors on turn 2 and he goes off before I am ready. I cycled my Ice looking for a Daze, but no Dice.

At this point I'm feeling x-3 is no good, and I've been grinding for like 7.5 hours. I bail to go play wacky sealed and drink whiskey. Turns out enough people dropped out (probably to do the same thing) and my record was good enough for 61st. Sweet.

The long and short of it is I love this deck. No one saw it coming, it was consistently powerful. And it was a breeze to play for 8 hours straight. I want to thank this forum for inspiring me to play it. I also want to thanks all of my opponents for being some of the most pleasant people I met all weekend.

Also, Mad Props to the other burn player, the one with the mono-red build with Hellspark Elementals and Keldon Marauders. Keep making those Stoneblade players cry!

Nicely done. So what is your take on the vexing devil? Sounds like he was great for you.

[silvanel]

2xvolcanic island
2x plateau
1x thundra
4x arid mesa
4x scalding tarn
2x flooded strand
1xplain
1xmountain
2xisland


4x delver of secret
4x vexing devil
4x goblin guide
4x step lynx


4x brainstorm
3x magma jet
4x lightning bolt
4x chain lightning
4x lightning helix
4x daze
2x thunderous wrath


Going to test this up in my local tourny this week, any change I should do ?? my meta is goblin,r/u delvernought, eva green, rug,sneakshow still having a hard time with the side...

[Hanni]

You know, I was considering making a small necro on this to discuss some new cards (and this decks position in the current metagame), but now I don't need to. :laugh:

I haven't played with the deck in a little while now, but I was very displeased with Vexing Devil before (and I did alot of testing with it). It's just never going to come down as a creature during the early game. A 4 damage Lava Spike is good for us, but it's not something we want to be doing in the early game, as it completely distracts from the point of using creatures.

I want creatures early game to "Zoo rush" my opponent with 1 drops, overloading their spot removal until one sticks. Devil doesn't help with that plan at all. This is the most aggressive aggro deck in the format (without crossing that "aggro/combo" line like Affinity does), so opponent's don't have time to try and get value out of something like Terminus or Stoneforge Mystic (by value, I mean trying to get card advantage out of Terminus, or rushing out a SFM early). They need to answer the creatures immediately, or they are going to take too much damage.

A 1cc 4/3 is nice, but its never going to be a creature when we want it to be one (early game). During the midgame when we want burn, it's not going to be a burn spell. Therefore, I do not think Devil has a place in this deck.

There are two new cards that caught my attention as potential maindeck material for this deck. Judge's Familiar and Dryad Militant. After some thought, I decided Judges Familiar is absolutely awful in here. I could care less about countering instants and sorceries at the expense of losing a creature, and Familiar is horrible aggressively (1/1 body), even with the flying. Dryad Militant, on the other hand...

I think Dryad Militant is much, much better than Phantasmal Bear (which is what I used to run). The ability to stunt the growth of RUG's Mongooses (if they don't block pre-Thresh), shrink Goyfs by -2/-2 (if it comes down early enough), prevent SCM decks from flashing back Swords and Brainstorm, and prevent Dredge from flashing back Therapy and Looting... priceless. He has some bad synergy with Lavamancer, but I've been displeased with Lavamancer in this deck for a while now. Lavamancer is slow as balls in a deck that wants to be very aggressive. The utility to repeatedly kill x/2's is fantastic in the format right now, don't get me wrong, but the pressure he applies is horrible. I'm still on the fence with him. A 2/2 split of Lavamancer/Dryad would probably work out just fine, since the variance of having both at the same time would be low, and this deck has plenty of fetchlands to feed Lavamancer if I do have them at the same time (and they probably won't live long anyway). However, I'm considering going with 4 Dryads instead. At least for playtesting purposes, this makes the most sense.

RUG is a difficult matchup to sideboard for. If they blow out our manabase, we lose. If they have a sick nasty tempo start when we have a slow hand, we lose. When either of those two situations don't occur, we win. That's pretty much what makes it really hard to determine what would be the best card(s) to bring in. Ideally, we'd want sideboard cards that fix both of the situations where we lose. I don't really think there is much to be done about the Stifle/Waste plan... our heavy fetchland manabase and low land count is paramount for us to function properly. That leaves us with attacking their other tempo plan. The matchup is very swingy, so running some sideboard options to address this matchup is mandatory. I was originally considering something like Mind Harness or Submerge, but... the only graveyard dependance we have is Grim Lavamancer (if I even decide to run it anymore), and a resolved Rest in Peace completely destroys their tempo. 1/1 Mongooses and 0/1 Goyfs are laughably amusing, and the 3/2 Delvers are rather easy to deal with when we have a billion burn spells. The beauty here is that RIP doubles over as graveyard hate for Dredge... and any other graveyard dependant matchups like Reanimator.

Maverick was always one of my best matchups, and it looks like it keeps getting better as they continue to keep shrinking the size of their creatures for more and more hatebears. Thalia can be annoying because it slows down our tempo a little bit, but all of our removal is effective against her. I wouldn't worry too much about sideboard options for this matchup, unless they are also effective against other matchups.

Stoneblade is another good matchup, because they can rarely protect SFM early, and are usually dead by the time they finally do drop a Batterskull/Jitte. The fact that most of the Stoneblade builds keep slowing down and running durdly stuff like Lingering Souls makes this matchup even better. I wouldn't worry too much about sideboard options for this matchup, unless they are also effective against other matchups.

SNT is a race, pure and simple. This deck can goldfish on turn 3 fairly consistently, and rarely goes past turn 4. The maindeck Daze can help, too. The fact that we can get SNT extremely low on life before they get a Griselbrand down can prevent them from being able to draw cards right away, which can slow them down a full turn. This is still a very swingy matchup, so additional sideboard options to address this matchup is mandatory.

Miracles seems like it's the only horrible matchup in the DTB. The matchup is pretty bad, though. Swords/Terminus/flashback Swords can shut down the aggro plan, and Counterbalance is a beating, although Dryad can help stop the flashback Swords plan if he lives long enough. The matchup is still winnable if they don't have a removal heavy hand and we can push enough damage through. The matchup is also winnable if they do not resolve a Counterbalance. Rift Bolt, Thunderous Wrath, and Fireblast are good at closing the game out if the opponent is low on life before Counterbalance comes down. Since this is our worst matchup, sideboard options to address this matchup are mandatory.

I was running Pierces postboard before, but Oblivion Rings can deal with Miracles (Counterbalance) and whatever SNT drops. Pierce is good against both matchups too, but I'm thinking Oblivion Ring is the better option. Flusterstorm seems like a better option if I'm specifically trying to address combo matchups (that use instants/sorceries), since I'm going to be bringing in something else for Miracles...

Since Miracles is the worst matchup, I think Sulfuric Vortex is going to be the best sideboard card available. At 3cc, it can ignore Counterbalance (for the most part), and it almost always results in a win if it resolves. It also has applications against both Stoneblade and Maverick, making it a great option (since there really isn't any space to address either of those matchups specifically). O Ring is too slow to deal with Jitte/Batterskull effectively, where Vortex shuts down all of their lifegain options and is a threat at the same time.

Here's my new list, in all its glory:

R/u/w Blue Sligh

// Lands (18)
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [R] Volcanic Island
2 [R] Plateau
1 [R] Tundra
1 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures (16)
4 [GPX] Goblin Guide
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx
4 [RTR] Dryad Militant

// Spells (26)
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
3 [AVR] Thunderous Wrath
3 [VI] Fireblast

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 4 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 4 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm

I'm also considering Pithing Needle for the Miracles matchup. It's not going to do anything if Counterbalance comes down first, but it's only 1cc. Shutting down Top in this matchup can easily turn the tide of the game. There are other niche uses for it... I mean, there are plenty of targets for it in Legacy, but only a select few targets are worthy enough to bring it in against. So I dunno, we'll see.

Enjoy.

[silvanel]

Every time I have a guide and a lynx in my starting hand I never know which one to play at first . Your opinion? considering id have 1 fetch in hand ?

[Kich867]

Every time I have a guide and a lynx in my starting hand I never know which one to play at first . Your opinion? considering id have 1 fetch in hand ?

Always go for highest damage potential in my opinion. If you only have one land you probably don't keep that hand anyways, but Steppe Lynx turn 1, guide turn 2 is 6 damage on turn 2 at the least, 9 with a bolt in hand. Guide into Lynx is 4 damage on turn 2. Turn 3 I think is where that really makes a difference though:

0 + 6 + 6 = 12 damage on turn 3 (Lynx turn 1, guide turn 2)
2 + 2 + 6 = 8 damage on turn 3 (Guide turn 1, lynx turn 2)

[Hanni]

Every time I have a guide and a lynx in my starting hand I never know which one to play at first . Your opinion? considering id have 1 fetch in hand ?

A couple of things here...

You should not be keeping a 1 lander without Brainstorm. Even with a Brainstorm, it's a high risk high reward decision.

If you're talking about a 1 dual 1 fetch hand, it's complicated.

As a general rule of thumb, Lynx should always be your first turn play, but there a few exceptions. Sometimes, you don't have the land configuration to make it worth it.

For example:
Your hand has a fetchland and a Mountain as the only lands, no other white spells in hand, and some amount of Delvers or Brainstorms or **Phantasmal Bears**, with the rest being red spells. In this case, you would have to fetch a Tundra (where the white mana is only useful for casting the Lynx), Lynx will only grow into a 2/3 next turn (unless you topdeck a fetch), and will be a 0/1 until you draw another land. The Tundra will sacrifice alot of tempo from being able to empty your hand of red spells (only 1 red source means you can only cast 1 red spell a turn), and a Wasteland (from the opponent) will prevent you from casting the Brainstorm(s) or Delver(s) next turn.

You would also want to fetch a Tundra if you had a Daze in hand, to try and protect the Lynx. In this case, using the Daze would extend the length of Steppe Lynx being a 2/3 by one turn, so it may or may not be worth it, to go with the turn 1 Tundra -> Lynx play. This will be dependent on the rest of your hand. For example, if you have a Delver and a Daze, it may be safer to lead with Volcanic Island and Delver. That way, you can still have an active turn 1 Daze while being able to play two red spells next turn. If the opponent has Wasteland, Delver will be more valuable in later turns. The Steppe Lynx in hand becomes a dead spell though, which does suck. You just have to hope you find a Brainstorm at some point, or that you draw enough gas off the top to compensate.

Without a Daze, I would probably just ignore the Lynx, and hope to shuffle it away with Brainstorm later. This is a very rare circumstance, though. This is also based on my extensive playtesting with my older build using Phantasmal Bear, where Lynx was the only white spell in the deck.

**However, with Militant instead of Phantasmal Bear, grabbing a white source has alot more value now, so the decision trees are going to change a little. I do not have much testing with the Militant list yet to give you specific details.**

In just about any other circumstance (Militant list or not), you want to play the turn 1 Lynx. Lynx is only good at the very beginning of the game, when you're still playing fetchlands to develop your manabase. Dropping a Lynx on turn 2 is still good but it loses alot of value, and dropping them on turn 3 is pretty awful. Of course, it's always possible to topdeck a fetchland out of nowhere in the midgame, and swing in with a 4/5 that the opponent was not suspecting. Still though, Lynx is at his best when you drop him on turn 1, decent to good when dropped on turn 2, and typically awful when dropped after that.

Second of all, you should usually be dropping Goblin Guide last. Goblin Guide has haste, which makes dropping him on the board valuable on any turn during the early game, and valuable on any turn during the midgame when the opponent doesn't have a blocker open. If that justification wasn't enough, the fact that Goblin Guide will allow the opponent to draw a card (if a land is on top) further strengthens my reasoning.


Always go for highest damage potential in my opinion. If you only have one land you probably don't keep that hand anyways, but Steppe Lynx turn 1, guide turn 2 is 6 damage on turn 2 at the least, 9 with a bolt in hand. Guide into Lynx is 4 damage on turn 2. Turn 3 I think is where that really makes a difference though:

Turn 1 Lynx, turn 2 Guide + fetch is 6 damage, turn 3 dual is 4 damage. Turn 1 Guide, turn 2 Lynx + dual is 4 damage, turn 3 fetch + Guide is 6 damage.

Basically, the turn 1 Guide is necessarily the lowest damage combination. In fact, the turn 1 Guide may actually yield an overall damage increase once creature removal (from the opponent) is taken into consideration. Doesn't mean its the best line, though.

[SirTylerGalt]

I was toying with a Nivmagus version, but now that you mentioned Dryad Militant, I don't know what to choose anymore.

Anyway, here is the Nivmagus version:


4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Nivmagus Elemental


4 Daze
4 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
1 Mountain

SB: 3 Shattering Spree
SB: 4 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 4 Rest in Peace
SB: 4 Oblivion Ring



Example:

T1: Land, Nivmagus
T2: Land, Gitaxian Probe (see nothing relevant except a Swords to Plowshare), Goblin Guide. Attack. Opponent plays Swords to Plowshare on Guide, Daze, Flusterstorm (5 copies total). Opponent does not pay for the Flusterstorm copy at the top of the stack, his Swords to Plowshare is countered... Eat the Daze and 4 other Flusterstorm copies with Nivmagus, which becomes a 11/12, bash for 13...

Probe is good because it lets you build storm and check the opponent's hand to see if the coast is clear before "comboing" with Nivmagus:
T1: Volcanic Island, Nivmagus Elemental
T2:
Volcanic Island
Gitaxian Probe for 2 life (see nothing relevant)
Tap 2 Volcanic Islands for UR
Lightning Bolt to the face
Fireblast to the face, keeping priority
Daze the Fireblast
Flusterstorm the Fireblast
Eat Daze and the 5 Flusterstorm copies with Nivmagus, which becomes a 13/14.

3 + 4 + 13 = 20 damage, GG.


I'm also considering Distortion Strike. Making Nivmagus / Lynx unblockable for 2 turns might be enough to kill the opponent through blockers...

[Hanni]

You know, I thought about Nivmagus alot when it was first spoiled, but I wasn't really sure. If it was a 2/1 it would have been a no brainer. At 1/2, it's going to suck unless an instant or sorcery gets exiled. The problem with exiling instants/sorceries is that we don't really want to exile them. Exiling a Daze against a Lightning Bolt sounds awesome, but I'd much rather resolve my Brainstorms and burn.

The other thing I was thinking about Nivmagus, was that it would play very nicely with more cantrips, since it can turn every cantrip into a permanent +2/+2 when the deck doesn't need to dig for anything. However, more cantrips in this deck would be bad.

On one hand, Nivmagus looks extremely good against blue decks with countermagic (since we can exile our instants/sorceries in response to their countermagic). Most of the format is playing countermagic.

On the other hand, it seems bad against aggro decks. Comparatively with Dryad, it doesn't beat as hard unless we waste a spell, and it doesn't disrupt graveyards.

Against the format:

It could be insane against RUG Tempo, since that deck uses alot of cheap countermagic and burn spells. They would normally be countering alot of our burn spells, but they would no longer be doing that for fear of growing Nivmagus. At 3/4, it outsizes post-Thresh Mongooses, and at 5/6, it outsizes Goyfs. At 3/4, they cannot profitably remove it with burn. Sounds good to me.

(It would also be really good against the mirror, since we could make it a 5/6 on turn 2)

Could be decent against Miracles. Their countermagic is alot slower, so they probably won't be countering too many of our spells early, and they run a boatload of removal to negate the gains also.

On the other hand, Nivmagus does seem nice if he comes down early and is still alive under a Counterbalance, since our dead spells in hand turn into damage on the board. Interesting countermeasure to Counterbalance, at the very least.

It will be insanely good against SNT, since a permanent +2/+2 will do more damage than an one-shot 3 damage spell after only two swings. Could possibly speed up the goldfish, making turn 3 goldfishes more consistent. Seems good to me.

Possibly good against SFM decks too, since they also run countermagic.

Again, it seems bad against aggro decks, though.

Ultimately, I'm still not really sure. Nivmagus looks like the type of creature that would benefit from a deck being built around it, using free spells like Gitaxian Probe and Gut Shot, and some more cantrips in general. At the point where I am playing free spells that kinda suck otherwise, and extra cantrips, I might as well run Kiln Fiend for value. Turn 1 Magus, turn 2 Kiln Fiend, turn 3 -> cast 5 spells would grows Kiln Fiend to 16/17, exiling all 5 spells would grow Nivmagus to 11/12, swing for 27. Overkill though, and we can already goldfish turn 3. Also highly susceptible to exile removal, although that deck would likely be running Force/Daze/Pierce/Flusterstorm/etc. Totally different deck, which I have a thread for here: U/R/x Miracle-Gro (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5412-U-R-g-Gro)

At any rate, I'll do some testing with both Militant and Dryad in here and see how it goes.

[subzero]

hi!

i see no more reply about this fasta crazy deck!!

btw i see boros charm , and immediatly i thought about blue sligh


i played this deck with very nice results!

now i think we can play this new " burn spell"

i d like play it instead price of progress,

btw i have problem about mana base, because i need more white mana for lynx, boros charm , and i think white is really great for play -rest in peace in side against our bad match up (reanimator, and dredge)

[JDK]

Looking at Hanni's last list I'd cut T. Wrath for Boros Charm or Price of Progress, because they are a more reliable damage source.

[Hanni]

Holy necro, batman.

I ran R/u Sligh at the Card Titan Eternal Weekend in Columbus, Ohio this past weekend. I ran a list with Lava Spike instead of Daze to an unimpressive 6-4 in the main event, but ran super hot in side events on Sunday with Daze instead of Lava Spike going 3-1 and 4-0

My list on Sunday was the following:

R/u Sligh

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
3 Volcanic Island
3 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide

Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Forked Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
3 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Dismember
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage

Will list my matchups and minor details for both days when I get home from work.

[knopfler]

I love the card Nivmagus Elemental.
I think is very useful in a counters war that you are not going to win or with spells with rebound ability.

I would prefer dryad militant instead of Steppe Lynx, lower attack but better control against snapcasters so it depends on your metagame.

I would use Baleful Strix. It can help you to kill other creatures and gives you one draw.

You could think in use Aven mindcensor against green zeniths creature Tutors.

Maybe some ensnaring bridge against mud, reanimator and show and tell decks but depends on the format and the reanimated beast. If they reanimate Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur or griselbrand then you will have few turn before they could remove your defenses.

Anyway I think Nivmagus Elemental has great potential in any red/blue deck.

Regards

[Hanni]

I didn't have time yesterday to post my matchups. At any rate, since I didn't get permission from any of my opponent's to use their names, I will refrain from doing so.

These were my matchups from the main event, running Lava Spike instead of Daze:

R1: Punishing Jund 1-2
Opponent is running Grim Flayer instead of Dark Confidant. I win game 1, he takes game 2. Game 3 I draw no lands, mull to no lands, mull to 5 lands, mull to 4. Ouch.
He had loads of discard and creature kill each game, and Price of Progress did some work.

R2: Rg Lands 1-2
The last time I played in a large REL event was 2007 Grand Prix Columbus, so I'm a noob when it comes to some things. I have actual Delvers sleeved instead of checklist cards, and didn't realize my sleeves weren't 100% opaque. Oops. I was about to win g1 when my opponent noticed. I assured him there were no hard feelings, took the game loss and warning, grabbed the checklist cards out of my backpack, resleeved, and went into g2. I took g2 fairly easy, but he had the nut dredge in g3 into Depths + Stage with an Exploration out and got me for 20 on turn 3; I would have dealt lethal on my turn 3.

So at this point I'm 0-2, but decide to play the rest of the event out because I came to play magic.

R3: Br Reanimator 2-0 (actually 0-2)
Let me be clear; this is my worst matchup. G1 he has a turn 2 Grislebrand, g2 he has double Chancellor opener into turn 2 Grislebrand. My opponent decides to drop and scoops to me.

R4: Infect 2-1
My opponent was a really nice guy and had a cool chicken costume on. At any rate, the Infect matchup is rediculously interactive and skilltesting. Very tough back and forth games were had. I have not had the chance to playtest this matchup much and I definitely plan to in the future.

R5: Infect 0-2
My lack of experience with this matchup cost me both games. The misplays were very small and subtle and hard to recognize, but had massive impact. One of the games I misassigned my role and attacked with a Swiftspear and Guide when he had 2 Elves on board which he had the triple pumps that got him through a Bolt and Fireblast. In the other game, I can no longer remember the misplay, I only remember that I would have won otherwise.

R6: 4c Bant Stoneblade 2-0
He had Hierarch's and Leovold's. Not much else to note here except that this is a fantastic matchup for me. Price of Progress got in for 8 damage in one of the games, which felt insane.

R7: Colorless Eldrazi 2-1
G1 I'm stupid and trade an unflipped Delver into his Mimic. I also had a Swiftspear and another guy in hand so I thought it was okay, but he then drops a Chalice for 1 followed by a TKS on my PoP and I don't draw anything relevant before I die. All I remember about the next 2 games was a Smash to Smithereens on a Jitte winning me g2, and Smashing a Chalice for 1 which he followed up with another Chalice for 1, but still getting there with a Delver, a PoP, and a Fireblast in g3. I think I had a PoP in g2 also but I'm not sure.

R8: Ur Omnitell 0-2
G1 he has a turn 2 Island + Tomb into SNT for Omni for Wish into Call into Emrakul. G2 he has a turn 1 Island + 2 Petals into SNT into Emrakul. GG's. I've tested the Sneak and Show matchup a bunch and found it to be even to slightly in my favor, but I can't beat nut draws.

R9: 4c Deathblade 2-1
I destroyed him fairly easy in games 1 and 3, but in game 2, he catches me with my pants down without a way to deal with a turn 2 SFM (my hand has Rift Bolts and a Smash to Smithereens ), and he has the FoW for my Smash on his Batterskull.

R10: UR Delver 2-0
This matchup is even better than Stoneblade. I keep him off of threats, smack him with dudes, and then come across with a ton of burn to his face in both games. I feel bad for dreamcrushing his chance for free dinner (due to a bet with his friends regarding who would end the day with the best record), but they were watching the match so I couldn't have scooped him into it.

Overall, I made some mistakes and had some bad beats, but I had alot of fun and felt good about the deck overall.

I decided to switch to Daze on Sunday, and I'm pretty sure Daze is just way too good in this deck to not be playing them.

I'll finish up the rest of this tomorrow, and also discuss some sideboard changes I'm going to make.

[JDK]

R3: Br Reanimator 2-0 (actually 0-2)
Let me be clear; this is my worst matchup. G1 he has a turn 2 Grislebrand, g2 he has double Chancellor opener into turn 2 Grislebrand. My opponent decides to drop and scoops to me.

Glad no judge got wind of this. :tongue:

[knopfler]

R3: Br Reanimator 2-0 (actually 0-2)
Let me be clear; this is my worst matchup. G1 he has a turn 2 Grislebrand, g2 he has double Chancellor opener into turn 2 Grislebrand. My opponent decides to drop and scoops to me.

What does it mean this text you posted? With the hands of your opponent it should have been 0-2. Why did your opponent drop?
Anyway with those opening hands most decks without Force of will wouldn't win.
Your deck could be fine depending on the format. Reanimators and show and tell decks I think that are very played but I'm not sure if they will work in a control metagame while your aggro deck could achieve better results.

Regards

[Hanni]

My opponent was intending to drop from the tournament before we started and conceded the match to me when we finished playing. I was not aware that doing that was against the rules...?

Also, I'm aware that combo is not a large portion of the meta, and my other combo matchups are a bit better than Br Reanimator. If I had to do it all over again, I'd play the same deck except with Daze instead of Lava Spike because it's just way too strong in most matchups. I would change my sideboard, though.

I will post my Sunday matchups when I have more time available.

[knopfler]

My opponent was intending to drop from the tournament before we started and conceded the match to me when we finished playing. I was not aware that doing that was against the rules...?

Also, I'm aware that combo is not a large portion of the meta, and my other combo matchups are a bit better than Br Reanimator. If I had to do it all over again, I'd play the same deck except with Daze instead of Lava Spike because it's just way too strong in most matchups. I would change my sideboard, though.

I will post my Sunday matchups when I have more time available.
I also didn't know that was against the rules but think that players could agree results.

I think reanimator/show and tell/dredge are dangerous decks on the first turns specially against control decks with no Force of will in the opening hand. Maybe one of the best cards for those decks is Grafdigger's Cage.

I like dazes but are bad counters when game lasts. If you worry about hym to tourach, exhume, chalices cost 1, and other 2 manas spells maybe could be better spell snares.
If you see your deck damage is fine I would change lava Spike for counters or cursed scroll. Cursed scroll is not very played but think that is a permanent damage source if you usually have few cards in hand and allows you to kill vendillions, confidents, deathrite shaman, and also are good if you use ensnaring bridge.

Regards

[Megadeus]

I don't think it's against the rules. You're opponent has all the right in the world to concede at any time they would like

[JDK]

I don't think it's against the rules. You're opponent has all the right in the world to concede at any time they would like

Second part is correct, as long as the match slip is not signed. First part is actually wrong though, given what happened.


My opponent was intending to drop from the tournament before we started and conceded the match to me when we finished playing. I was not aware that doing that was against the rules...?

MTR 2.4:

"[...] Until that point, either player may concede to or draw with the other, though
if the conceding player won a game in the match, the match must be reported as 2-1 [...]"

In your case your opponent concedes in game 2, but he won the first. You report

a) 2-0
b) 2-1

a) is against the rules. b) is fine.

I am just nitpicking, though. Glad you switched back to PoP. ;)

[Hanni]

A couple weeks overdue, but I haven't had the time lately.

Anyway, my memory at this point is pretty foggy so I apologize.

For the two side events...

-----

R1: Shardless BUG 2-1
I run him over g1 with quick beats + burn to the face. I don't remember how I lost g2. In g3, I Daze his turn 2 Goyf, which ultimately wins me the game. Price of Progress was also good.

R2: Infect 1-2
G1 I Daze a Force of Will on my turn 1 Goblin Guide, and am able to apply a clock while killing his guys. In g2 I mull to 6 and don't draw my first creature until turn 6 or 7. In g3, I mull to 6, he has StP for my turn 1 Swiftspear, and I don't draw another creature until turn 6 or 7.

At this point, it seems pretty clear that I cannot beat Infect if I am unable to stick an early creature or two. All of my losses to Infect over the weekend involved me having no clock.

R3: Colorless Eldrazi 2-0
Same opponent that I played against in the main event. I have some very aggressive draws and a Price of Progress in both games. I don't remember much else.

R4: D&T 2-1
Very interactive games. I lost g2 due to getting too far behind on board due to an EOT Vial in Mom that I didn't have an instant speed answer for. I won g1 and g3 by killing all of her guys while applying a sufficient clock.

-----

R1: Miracles 2-0
G1 I keep a no-creature hand and commit to the straight burn plan. He has an early Counterbalance, but blind flips a Jace and I'm able to dump my 1cc spells. He follows up with a Top, but is unable to counter my Rift Bolt + Fireblast + Barb Ring on the following turns. In g2, I have a creature heavy draw, but he finds removal for all of them. I am able to push a little damage through with them though, and he doesn't get Counterbalance down until it's too late. I finish him off with an Exquisite Firecraft + Fireblast.

R2: D&T 2-0
Same opponent from the previous side event. I don't remember much about these games. I know they were both really close, and in one if them I got her the turn before she was able to stabilize with a Jitte or Batterskull because of Fireblast.

R3: Colorless Eldrazi 2-1
His build has the Eldrazi that can be cast from exile, which is really annoying because I can't really kill them. In g1, I decide to ignore them and not worry about pushing damage through with my Guide. I am able to close it out with burn to the face + Price. In g2, my draw is too slow and his is too fast and I lose to double Reality Smasher. G3 is super close and I kill him the turn before he kills me due to a Fireblast.

R4: D&T 2-1
G1 is close but I get it done. In g2, a turn 2 Kor Firewalker just does too much work for him. It was close, and I eventually get it off the table with a Barb Ring, but I have to decimate my manabase with Fireblast to hit Threshold, and he follows up with Thalia to lock me out. In g3, I demolish him. Turn 1 Guide, he has turn 1 Vial, I Smash Vial on my turn 2, he follows up with double Vial. I double bolt him. He drops a Thalia, I Forked Bolt it. I don't remember his follow up, but he was at like 2 life and I had Guide + double Bolt + Fireblast.

-----

I've decided to make a couple of tweaks to the maindeck, and a complete overhaul of the sideboard. After I get to try the new changes out this weekend at the SCG Legacy Classic in Columbus, I will post my new list and matchups, etc.

[ntropy]

Holy necro, batman.

I ran R/u Sligh at the Card Titan Eternal Weekend in Columbus, Ohio this past weekend. I ran a list with Lava Spike instead of Daze to an unimpressive 6-4 in the main event, but ran super hot in side events on Sunday with Daze instead of Lava Spike going 3-1 and 4-0

My list on Sunday was the following:

R/u Sligh

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
3 Volcanic Island
3 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide

Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Forked Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
3 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Dismember
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage

Will list my matchups and minor details for both days when I get home from work.
Hey, I used this list tonight at a 3 rounder at my LGS. I beat Storm round 1, then I lost to Grixis Delver and Miracles. It was fun to play though, I think I'll tweak it and report back. Both losses were close, no blowouts.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[Hanni]

I never got around to posting my SCG Open results, but suffice to say that I'm happy with the tweaks that I made. I scrubbed the Open after starting off 3-1 due to major misplays in g2 against Enchantress in Round 5, which would have kept me in Top 8 contention had I played correctly.

Anyway, I was able to go 5-0-2 in a local GPT and win 2 byes for Louisville.

As to my changes, I've cut 1 Price of Progress and 1 Fireblast from the maindeck for 2 Grim Lavamancer. I also cut 1 Mountain for 1 Volcanic Island.

For the sideboard, I am now on the following:

1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Price of Progress
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle

The maindeck and sideboard feels absolutely perfect to me at this point, and is the 75 I will be playing at GP Louisville. The deck feels fantastic against the entire format. The Br Reanimator and Turbo Depths matchups feel pretty lousy, but everything else feels even to favorable, throughout the hundreds of games I've put in with the deck over the last 6 months or so.

Basically, I feel slightly favored or better against most of the DTB, with Miracles and Grixis Delver being the toughest of the bunch at relatively even matchups (50/50). Most of my matchups against decks in the Established forum also feel slightly favored or better. I know it sounds like I'm over inflating the deck, but the deck just feels so powerful every time I play with it.

[CabalTherapy]

It's nice to see the thread again. I remember playing a version of UWR Sligh against a friend at my first university in the cafeteria back in 2012.
Sadly I don't remember the decklist but I had Steppe Lynx as one of my beaters, I think Delver and Snapcaster as well. Good memories. Deck wasn't the worst.

[Hanni]

Took R/u Sligh to 11-4 at GP Louisville, ending up in 78th on breakers.

First, the list.

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer

Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Forked Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Price of Progress
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle

Matches

Day 1 : 7-2
R1 / Bye / 2-0 / Win
R2 / Bye / 2-0 / Win
R3 / Br Reanimator / 0-2 / Loss
R4 / Grixis Delver / 2-0 / Win
R5 / 4c Deathblade / 2-0 / Win
R6 / Shardless BUG / 2-0 / Win
R7 / RG Lands / 2-0 / Win
R8 / Big Red / 0-2 / Loss
R9 / Merfolk / 2-0 / Win

Day 2 : 4-2
R10 / Turbo Depths / 0-2 / Loss
R11 / 4c Aggro Loam / 2-0 / Win
R12 / Shardless BUG / 0-2 / Loss
R13 / Miracles / 2-1 / Win
R14 / Shardless BUG / 2-0 / Win
R15 / Elves / 2-0 / Win

I won about half of the die rolls throughout both days.

2 of my losses were against my worst 2 matchups (Reanimator and Depths), unfortunately.

Against Big Red, he went first g1 and had a t1 Chalice. Game 2 was super close.

My loss to Shardless felt bad. My deck pooped on me with awful opening hands, poor mulligans, and horrible draws in both games. I lost both games to manascrew.

Other than that, the deck ran hot for me all weekend, and I was very happy with the list. I would run the exact same 75 again, for sure.

I may post more detail about my games at some point, if anyone is actually interested.

[Hanni]

I'm saddened by the lack of interest in this archetype. :cry:

At any rate, after a great deal of self reflection about my performance at the GP, I've decided to tweak my sideboard again.

The EV for the 1 Lavamancer and 1 Price of Progress is pretty high, in the sense that I was boarding into them quite often. However, most of those matchups were already quite favorable, and so the actual improvement in matchup percentages is not necessarily significant enough to warrant the space.

On the other hand, my matchup against Br Reanimator, and to a lesser extent Turbo Depths, is only as bad as my preparedness for those matchups; or in other words, my sideboard slots.

In evaluating all of the options available, I believe Seal of Removal is my best option. Essentially, it would give me more answers to both Reanimator and Depths, while hitting Sneak and Show as well, and to a lesser extent Lands. Aside from Lands, having additional sideboard cards to address the other 3 matchups is more than welcome.

New sideboard:

4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Seal of Removal
2 Pithing Needle

Hopefully I perform better in the next large event I play in because I would like this thread to become active again.

[CabalTherapy]

I'm saddened by the lack of interest in this archetype. :cry:


I assume that most people gravitate towards generic options such as UR Delver, which has put up some good results over the last couple of months.
Without really testing the deck (again) I would add Ponder to the party because it can search for even more guys preboard or specific answers postboard.
Overall I enjoy this deck's playstyle more than midrangy versions of UR or even Burg Delver which (in my hands) seems to lose too often against other
slower decks that try to outvalue regular Delver strategies.

[Hanni]

I played Ponder briefly, but it felt wrong in this deck. As much as it wouldn't seem like it at only one mana, playing cantrips kills this decks tempo. This deck wants to play guys and burn spells early. Brainstorm is fantastic, but 8 cantrips was way too many. I also tried a list with 2 Ponder, which felt much better than 4. That list wasn't bad, but this deck is so redundant in it's gameplan that I feel like 4 Brainstorm is enough... but I wouldn't rule it out, either. If I were going to do so, I'd cut two burn spells, probably trim down to 2 Forked Bolts (and no Wrath).

Overall though, my current list feels extremely fine-tuned to me at this point, as I've been playing with and tweaking this specific list for over a year now.

Also, I know I mentioned this to you in IM, but for everyone else who may be interested, I've cut 1 Forked Bolt (down to 3 now) for 1 Thunderous Wrath.

[JDK]

In evaluating all of the options available, I believe Seal of Removal is my best option. Essentially, it would give me more answers to both Reanimator and Depths, while hitting Sneak and Show as well, and to a lesser extent Lands. Aside from Lands, having additional sideboard cards to address the other 3 matchups is more than welcome.

New sideboard:

4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Seal of Removal
2 Pithing Needle
I'll give your list a try tomorrow probably, but I guess I will run Vapor Snag/Submerge over Seal of Removal as Seal only seems better against SnT.

[Hanni]

Cool, let us know how it goes.

[JDK]

Cool, let us know how it goes.

Will do, although any other UR build seems better in my meta. XD

[Hanni]

What's your meta like?

[JDK]

BR Reanimator, Show and Tell, Tezzerator, Miracles, Aluren, UR Delver, DnT, UB Reanimator, BUG Control (TNN, Leovold), Jund, Dark Depths and Elves.

Some MU are better with your build, but DD, Reanimator, SnT and Tezzerator are surely bad MU, especially pre-board.

[Hanni]

Show and Tell is a fine matchup. Game 1 can be won by racing. They don't always have a turn 2 Show and Tell, and this deck can often goldfish on turn 3. It's not quite 50/50, but it's not bad. Games 2 and 3 become favorable postboard.

Tezzerator is also a good matchup if they don't have a turn 1 Chalice for 1. Tomb damage is good for us, and they usually get hit pretty hard with Price of Progress. Just don't let Tezzeret ultimate, which shouldn't be that hard to stop, or just kill them prior to getting to that point. Postboard, 4 Smash to Smithereens should make the matchup quite favorable.

Multiple Reanimator and Dark Depths in the field does look hostile, though. Hopefully you can dodge those. I actually won a few playtest games againt Br Reanimator last night... the matchup is not unwinnable, but it's not what you want to get paired against.

The deck looks great against everything else you mentioned. Miracles is tough, but this deck should beat Death & Taxes, Elves, BUG Control, Aluren, UR Delver, and Jund.

So really, if you can dodge Reanimator and Dark Depths, then this deck should be great for your meta.

[JDK]

Tezzerator is also a good matchup if they don't have a turn 1 Chalice for 1.
Well, that's the gist. :D For the past few years I have probably accumulated a record of playing with different UR decks against Tezzerator (which is why I love Smash to Smithereens and Fiery Confluence).


So really, if you can dodge Reanimator and Dark Depths, then this deck should be great for your meta.
Rarely happens at 8-12 player FNMs (with 2-4 people playing said decks), though. Let's hope for the best. XD

[JDK]

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Volcanic Island
3 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring (somehow didn't find my second Ring)

Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer

Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Forked Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast
1 Thunderous Wrath

Sideboard (15)
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Null Rod
3 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle

Matches

R1: Jund 2:0
R2: UR Delver 2:1
R3: NicFit 2:1
R4: BUG Control I.D. (2:0 in the matches afterwards)

So I did pretty well in dodging the unfavorable matchups. :D
Deck felt pretty good, although I am not sure if there is any incentive to play it over UR Delver (which has better Combo-MUs).
Fireblasting was fun though. ^^

[Hanni]

Well, I'm not really aure how much better UR Delver is against Turbo Depths... my guess is not much. I concede that UR Delver has a better Br Reanimator matchup, but I feel like the Show and Tell matchup is favorable for me regardless. ANT and TES are likely better for UR Delver, but I haven't ran into Storm in a very long time.

Aside from fast combo, which is a smaller percentage of the field in a large event, this deck is better than UR Delver against the rest of the field. I'd rather crush what I am most likely to face, and accept a worse matchup against what I am less likely to face. That is just my opinion, though.

At any rate, I am glad you did well with your first time playing the deck.

[Commander Eesha]

Long time lurker, first time poster. English is not my mother language, so be ready for bad grammar to happen.

I just took this deck to a 3th position in a small tourment of 20-21 players.

I was on Steppe Lynx build.

This was my first time playing the deck and i’m already in love.

My list was suboptimal. My plan was just to make some testing. I had to build it in a hurry (i couldn’t find some cards that i own), I really didn’t expect the 3th position.

I can share my silly list and do a small report of the tourment. Let me know if you’re interested and, despite my english level, I will do my best.

[Hanni]

Long time lurker, first time poster. English is not my mother language, so be ready for bad grammar to happen.

I just took this deck to a 3th position in a small tourment of 20-21 players.

I was on Steppe Lynx build.

This was my first time playing the deck and i’m already in love.

My list was suboptimal. My plan was just to make some testing. I had to build it in a hurry (i couldn’t find some cards that i own), I really didn’t expect the 3th position.

I can share my silly list and do a small report of the tourment. Let me know if you’re interested and, despite my english level, I will do my best.

Sure, we'd love to see more.

[Commander Eesha]

ANT 2-1
First game was an easy one. I Dazed his early cantrips and just win with early preasure + burn.
I side in 4 Spell Pierce and 2 Surgirical Extraction.
In the second game, he killed my Steppe Lynx, delayed my next threat with Culling Scales, and discarded my hate with duress. Cool way of loosing.
In the third one, I used daze on his early cantrips. I ate some duresses, but my agression put him in the need of doing a Thendrills of Agony for just 8, wanting to stabilize. He had a Past in Flames in his hand, but I Surgirical his Thendrills for the win.

I was a little scared about facing Storm without FoW (I come to this deck after playing U/R Delver and U/R Control). But I didn't miss the FoW at any point of the match.

Abzan Stoneblade 0-2

This one was really weird. Triple Sword to plowshares in 3 turns. Followed by 2 Loxodon Smiter, just ride him to the win.
I sided wrongly against this one. The people around us called him "The Pestilence". So I was specting some Nic Fit with Pernicious Deed.
The game was almost favored for me... before he hardcasted a Batterskull, and then also equipped a Jitte to the germ token..

Jeskai Stoneblade 2-0

Funny fact about this one, I thought he was on Miracles. Turn one Tundra, Sensei's Divining Top, then he flooded and scoops.
I side in Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, 2 Spell Pierce and 2 Wear//Tear.
On the second match, he landed a Top in turn 2. So I keep thinking he was on Miracles. Then is when he landed his first Kor with a Cavern of Souls on Kor... This was a game full of interesting interaction, and lots of things happened. At the end, he played a Batterskull on his turn, so I decided try to win on the spot with a Fireblast. A really interesting counter war started, which ended with Venser bouncing my Fireblast. In my turn, I fetch for another mountain, re-cast Fireblast, he respond with Snapcaster to flashback Spell Pierche wich I Dazed for the win.


Jund 2-0

This was easy. I didn't remember doing nothing fancy. Just winning in the way this deck is suposed to win. We've ended so fast that he asked me to play a third play, just for doing more testing against my deck. I crushed him again.


Infect 2-0

In the first match, I have 2 flipped delvers on turn 3. He was forced to be the control deck, which obviously, doesn't make Infect to win.
The second one was long as hell. He just was just spending much time thinking every step. He had 2 wins and 2 draws in the 4 rounds. After playing against him, I can understand the draws. We were almost out of time, and he was going really slow, so I needed to win that turn. I had enough combat damage to put him on 3 life. So I cast 2 Brainstorms searching any kind of burn spell. I didn't find them (I had a Fireblast and a letal Price of Progress before the Brainstroms), but I find a Monastery Swiftspear. I cast her, I attack with everything, before damage bloquers, I cast PoP, he respond with Spell Pierce. I cast a Fireblast. He turned his only creature (Noble Hierach) to cast another Pierce, wich i happily let resolve, so I have no bloquers and 2 Prowess trigers for lethal.

At this point i've made top 4.

Semi finals 1-2
I've played against a control version of Team America. No Delvers, but Spell Pierces on maindeck.
The first one was an easy one. Just playing how this deck wants to play. I win.
The second one.. I pretended to be a burn deck. The lack of early agresion cost me the game.
The third one was miserable.. my first hand was 2 bolts, 4 lands and a Delver. I've mulligan into a 6 hand without lands, and then go to a 5 cards hand. He used 3 wastelands in the first 4 turns. Followed with a Chill, which put me out of the game.

Finals.
He scoops.

My list was so suboptimal, that I got some congratulations from better players, just for achieving third position with that.

MD
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Flooded Strand (WHY NO ARID MESA? Don't know what I was thinking)
1x Mountain
1x Plateau
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Tundra ( I didn't find a third Volcanic Island and I would preffer a second basic mountain EVERYTIME)
2x Volcanic Island
4x Chain Lightning
1x Forked Bolt
4x Rift Bolt
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
2x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Magma Jet (I loved this one. Why people on this board seems to hate it?)
3x Price of Progress
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Steppe Lynx
1x Bedlam Reveler

SB

1x Price of Progress
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
2x Smash to Smithereens
4x Spell Pierce
2x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Wear / Tear

Notes about my list:
About Monastery Swiftspear: In a world of Brainstorms, I preffer not to give them a land. She won me a game that goblin guide couldn't so I'm sold with her.
Bedlam Reveler: I had 59 cards and didn't know what else to put. I don't like Grim Lavamancer so I put this. Never ever try Reveler in this deck. Way too slow.
Sulfuric Vortex: Too expensive. I've never cast it.
Steppe Lynx: Is the reason I play this deck over U/R Delver and Burn. I love the sinergy with Daze. Turn 2 with 4/5 Steppe Lynx, a bolt, a 2/3 Monastery Swiftspear, AND a Daze to protect/disrupt feels so good. Real pressure.


ASIDE NOTES:
This deck needs a better name. When i called it "Sligh" people thought that it was mono-red. Some others said that i was playing Patriot. I heard someone calling my deck "That Boros Agro Deck" (WTF?). They finally refer my deck as a Jeskai Delver.

[JDK]

Culling Scales, wtf? O.o
So much for that, I got turn 1'd by ANT a week ago (otd, playing UR Control).


As for the name, the recent iteration is pretty much what I would consider "UR Burn", as it doesn't rely on Delver as the usual UR Delver decks.
Still, you gotta give Hanni credit by using "Blue Sligh". :D

[Hanni]

The deck is called Sligh because that was the last name of the original developer of the archetype, many many years ago during Tempest block, with Jackal Pups and Mogg Flunkies.

The strategy is still the same, regardless of color splashes... primarily red based with a handful of aggressively costed creatures and a bunch of burn spells.

Other iterations have existed in Legacy, as far back as 2007 with Goyf Sligh, and then Naya Sligh after that.

At any rate, congrats on 3rd place, and interesting list.

I was thinking about testing a 3 color iteration with Lynx a few months ago, but never got around to it. I like the explosiveness that it would have, but I'm not sure that I want to give up the consistency that the two color list has.

[mistercakes]

Fwiw, I think he just got the credit but did not actually build the deck.

[Commander Eesha]

Thanks for the history lesson Hanni. And for all the support you give to this archetype.
I've read all the 18 pages, just remembered that you wanted to find a better name.

The confusion it creates to our opponents, plays in our favor.
Some of then told me that were playing around FoW.

About the white splash, I just like it. It's a personal preference. I can see your point about droping white, Monastery Swiftspear makes a good replacement of Steppe Lynx.
I like the synergy of landfall with Daze. Without it, I just feel like I'm playing Burn, but changing my combo-hate from Eidolon of the Great Revel to Daze.
About consistency, which is the worst case scenareo?. Land destruction? opponent Price of Progress? Blood moon?:confused:
I'm going to play with 2 basic mountains and only fetches that can get them.

I'm gonna make some changes in my list and take the deck to a weekly leage. I really enjoy the deck and I want to improve my skills playing it.

[Hanni]

Yea, the fact that the deck is a brew wins me games, too. It is a huge advantage when the opponent does not know what you're doing.

I'm by no means against the white splash. I simply think it trades consistency for explosiveness.

The reason the two color list is more consistent is because it doesn't stumble over itself very often.

Sometimes with the three color list, you are forced to fetch the Tundra on turn 1 for Lynx + Daze, and then get stuck in an akward spot where you don't hit double red sources. Sometimes, you only have 1 fetch and have to use it to play turn 1 Lynx, and never see a second fetch (Lynx as a 2/3 is not horrible, but not great). Sometimes, you're topdecking dead cats in the lategame.

On the other hand, the two color list rarely has mana issues, and lategame haste creatures can still potentially push through for some damage. The two color list can afford to run Barbarian Ring, which increases consistency further by helping to alleviate mana floods.

With all of that said, swinging with Lynx on turns 2 and 3 as a 4/5 is still just as nuts nowadays as it was several years ago. The 3 color list is something I would like to playtest with again, hopefully sometime soon.

[JDK]

Btw Hanni, how do you feel about Wrath so far? I've been pretty reluctant before and after testing it's been nothing but disappointing for me so far, so my negativity towards it just got stronger.

[Hanni]

Haven't had much of a chance to test with it, and I didn't see it often enough when I did, but by the calculations, it seems like it will do damage 75% of the games where I see it, and do nothing 25% of the time. While I prefer consistency over power more often in this type of deck, 75% chance of casting a burn spell worth nearly two burn spells seems to favor the risk vs reward on paper.

I had a game against Delver where it was stuck in hand for a long time and I wished it was a Forked Bolt instead because I needed to kill a Deathrite turns earlier, and I had a game against Lands where I blind miracled it for 5 and it felt good. However, that was when I was testing it as a 2/2 split with Forked Bolt for testing purposes, whereas the 3/1 split makes way more sense.

I'm still on the fence with it myself, but I'll post more about it soon.

[Commander Eesha]

Culling Scales, wtf? O.o

http://imgur.com/a/4HVE8

This is a photo of the game I lost against the ANT player. He delayed me for 2-3 turns, wich give him enough time to be ready for the perfect storm. It's a cool tech against us. Not only kills ours early drops, it prevents us to cast the next one. I had a Delver in hand which I couldn't cast.

For the god sake, I did even forget to bring my playmate to the tournament. :laugh:

About the Wrath topic, i'm gonna try it over mi third MD PoP. I think I prefer PoP in the current meta, but being able to kill a 4-5 toughness creature without double bolt, sounds good to me. Killing that big idiots is not the main use, of course, but the versatility over PoP is what appeals to me.


Sometimes with the three color list, you are forced to fetch the Tundra on turn 1 for Lynx + Daze, and then get stuck in an akward spot where you don't hit double red sources. Sometimes, you only have 1 fetch and have to use it to play turn 1 Lynx, and never see a second fetch (Lynx as a 2/3 is not horrible, but not great). Sometimes, you're topdecking dead cats in the lategame.

I can't see myself fetching for a Tundra if my only blue card in hand is daze.
I've only had problems hitting double red in matchs against decks with wasteland. But I didn't play the deck as much as you.
I appreciate your experience and wisdom. I still prefer the extra damage the Lynx can do. That great turn 2 happens almost 1 time in every round.

On the other hand, I love that you list can use Barbarian Ring. I like that card a lot. Really interesting against D&T.

I will stay tunned to our advances in this arquetype. Is the best brew I played by far, and nowadays, is my main deck.

[Hanni]

I have a GPT on Thursday where I'm gonna run the R/u list, but after that, I think I'm going to test this 3 color list:

R/u/w Sligh

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
2 Mountain

Creatures (16)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Steppe Lynx

Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

I'm still not sure how I would change the sideboard. I'm not sure that I like Path to Exile better than Seal of Removal. I'd probably cut 2 Smash to Smithereens for 2 Wear//Tear. Containment Priest is also an option. I'd probably want Grim Lavamancer as well.

I'll edit this post later once I figure out the sideboard.

EDIT: I'll probably go with this sideboard for now...

Sideboard (15)
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Containment Priest
4 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Seal of Removal
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Wear//Tear
2 Pithing Needle

[theMonster]

Hey, y'all, I've been lurking but wanted to inquire about the state of this deck. I've been testing various UR builds with Forces in the sideboard, but it looks like that they may not even be necessary; looks like a set of Spell Pierces gets the nod. Is that a metagame call, or would you, say, bring that idea to a GP? And I have lots of questions about this archetype because I'm new to it:

- I've been playing Prowess creatures lately but have no clue how to properly evaluate Stormchaser Mage. I sense an uptick in Pyroblasts, which makes me want to shelve him. But the fact that he flies and those turns where you have Swiftspear + Stormchaser keep me hanging on. Should I still can it in favor of, say, Steppe Lynx?

- In these Prowess builds I've been experimenting with a singleton Mutagenic Growth so that all my guys survive Bolt. When in combat and tapped out, it's basically a free Bolt, too. Too cute or decent tech? I've liked it so far, especially if I'm in a Leyline of Sanctity matchup. (And I'm assuming the only way you deal with that card is through combat or Wear // Tear if you're splashing white, right?)

- Would you play any copies of the new Prowess creature from Amonkhet in any shell?

- I've liked the Thunderous Wrath // Fireblast split. It enables some busted turns, and this deck needs to win fast. So, personally, I've accepted a higher variance card for more power. Do y'all feel the same?

- Do you think a copy of Fire // Ice over one of the Forked Bolts makes sense? I've been trying it because of Prelate on 1 and early Griselbrands in game 1. Plus, at the very worst, it cantrips if necessary. Being instant speed has enabled a couple tricks in combat for me, but it's rare.

Really curious about the Steppe Lynx versions, seeing as I've never played them. Sorry for bombarding the thread with n00b questions, but I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!

[Hanni]

Hey, y'all, I've been lurking but wanted to inquire about the state of this deck. I've been testing various UR builds with Forces in the sideboard, but it looks like that they may not even be necessary; looks like a set of Spell Pierces gets the nod. Is that a metagame call, or would you, say, bring that idea to a GP? And I have lots of questions about this archetype because I'm new to it:

- I've been playing Prowess creatures lately but have no clue how to properly evaluate Stormchaser Mage. I sense an uptick in Pyroblasts, which makes me want to shelve him. But the fact that he flies and those turns where you have Swiftspear + Stormchaser keep me hanging on. Should I still can it in favor of, say, Steppe Lynx?

- In these Prowess builds I've been experimenting with a singleton Mutagenic Growth so that all my guys survive Bolt. When in combat and tapped out, it's basically a free Bolt, too. Too cute or decent tech? I've liked it so far, especially if I'm in a Leyline of Sanctity matchup. (And I'm assuming the only way you deal with that card is through combat or Wear // Tear if you're splashing white, right?)

- Would you play any copies of the new Prowess creature from Amonkhet in any shell?

- I've liked the Thunderous Wrath // Fireblast split. It enables some busted turns, and this deck needs to win fast. So, personally, I've accepted a higher variance card for more power. Do y'all feel the same?

- Do you think a copy of Fire // Ice over one of the Forked Bolts makes sense? I've been trying it because of Prelate on 1 and early Griselbrands in game 1. Plus, at the very worst, it cantrips if necessary. Being instant speed has enabled a couple tricks in combat for me, but it's rare.

Really curious about the Steppe Lynx versions, seeing as I've never played them. Sorry for bombarding the thread with n00b questions, but I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!

I'm still running Force of Will in my sideboard. I've actually tweaked the sideboard for the 3c list I plan on testing to include Force of Will again, I just didn't post about it. I always build my sideboards for large metas, like a Grand Prix, but I don't believe any sideboard choices are ever set in stone.

I've never liked Stormchaser Mage. 2cc threats are too slow for Sligh.

Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets, and Monastery Swiftspear are the core creatures of this deck. If you want more without splashing, there is Grim Lavamancer. If you want to splash, then there is Steppe Lynx.

I wouldn't rule the new red creature out entirely, but I'm not sure that he's better than existing options. He seems slightly better than Zurgo Bellstriker, but I wasn't running Zurgo either.

Mutagenic Growth seems fine as a 1-of in a Lightning Bolt heavy meta, although I would still prefer to run more burn instead.

I like the 2/1 split of Fireblast/Wrath better than 3 Fireblast for sure, although I'm still not sure about Wrath. So far, I've been happy enough with it in the 2 color list. I don't have the room for it in the 3c list I plan on playtesting with next, though.

Fire//Ice is something to think about, since it can tap Marit Lage and Grislebrand for a turn, but 2cc is clunky, so I don't know. I like Forked Bolt because it gives me additional 1cc burn spells to deal with problematic creatures cheaply and efficiently while I deploy threats. I wouldn't cut below 2 Forked Bolts, personally.

As far as Prelate is concerned, I'm not really worried about it. It's a 1-of in most lists, so it's super slow to come down. I already have Rift Bolt, Fireblast, Barbarian Ring, an already active Lavamancer, possibly even Daze to deal with it (in the two color list).

[JDK]

Played another FNM last Friday with pretty much the same list (4 Smash SB), going 3-1: DnT 1:2 (no Smash seen in 2 postboard games), BUG Control 2:0, Punishing Maverick 2:1 (again, no Smash seen) and UB something 2:0.
The games against DnT and Maverick were pretty frustrating, as I didn't see a single Smash after drawing a lot of cards and even playing Brainstorm. Everyone seems to play Jitte and/or Batterskull now in my meta. xD

Wrath was also not drawn in those 10 games, except for mulliganed opening hands. On the contrary, Fireblast is king.

[JDK]

Played one of the two Grand Legacy Trials at MKM Frankfurt with Sligh, cutting the Wrath and going for a third PoP.

R1: Dragon Stompy 0:2 - Chalice on 1 and Trinisphere in both games.
R2: TES 1:2 or 0:2 - Turn 2 kill and Turn 1 Empty for 16.
R3-6: Cloudpost 2:0 - He says he drew unlucky, but I am not sure if this MU is winnable for him. :]
R3-6: Deadguy Ale/BWx Blade 2:0
R3-6: DnT 2:0. I win a game which I should have lost. Lavamancer is king.
R3-6: Grixis Delver 2:0. Nice guy, but poor plays cost him at least a game.
R7: BUG Leovold/Midrange 2:0. 2 GG > 2 Goyfs. Opponent says something about being flooded, but I consider DRS, Push, Decay, Leovold/2Goyfs a decent draw. Not sure what he expects against one of his worst MUs.

5-2, 16th out of ~80.

Beside R1 and 2 the list felt incredibly strong, even if a lot of the wins were close. Fireblast is still one of the best cards in the deck and I didn't miss the Wrath, as it only messed up my opening hands to begin with.
I would have played it in the main event too, but I had to return the fourth Volcanic, as I only own 3 and the owner needed it for his deck.

[Hanni]

I'm actually alot less interested in Thunderous Wrath now thst Miracles is gone.

With the meta moving back to Delver and Elves, I think cutting the Wrath for a 3rd Grim Lavamancer might be okay.

[Commander Eesha]

Hi again mates.

I'm taking this deck weekly in a 3 round league. Overall, I'm really happy with the deck. Lots of 3-0 and 2-1.

This weekend I have a small tournament and I want to ask for some SB advice. Mainly, for the anti-combo package. In my meta, ANT is on a rise. There is a really good S&T player too. So, my question is, which is the better way to fight this decks?. With more burn or with more proactive permision?

I'm using 4 Spell Pierce, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Pithing Needle and 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth. While I'm happy with it, some of the combo players, now know that I don't play any FoW at all. Should I put some on my SB for that GOTCHA moment?. Is it better if put some big burn spells (like Warth), Eidolon of the Great Rebel, or more hasty creatures?. Not sure if its better to become a more aggressive "Burn deck" or emphasize "UR control".

[subzero]

hi guys!!

i wrote in post 3-4 years ago, when i played this deck with great results (and i had it all pimp foil russian(((

now i need build again one funny strong legacy deck!

and of course i want back to this deck!!

many guys told me "this is ur delver"!!
oh i said no no, this is more power, and absolutely more funny for my taste!!

i played 3 color (list with lynx)
but when i start play monastery i see that maybe is better go on only 2 colours, if even plateau is my favourite dual, and face of opponent when attack with kynx 4/5 is toooo nice ))

btw, i read post and i testing from few time this list

4x delver
4x guide
4x monastery
4x bolt
4x chains bolt ))
3x forked bolt (i didn t think was so power!!!)
4x rift bolt (i prefear than lava spike for catsing cost3)
2x price of progress
2x fireblast
4x braisntorm
4x daze
3x foce of will
18 lands


of course idea is go very fast ,and have main 7 counterspell for answer to fast chalice or fast reanimator monster
just prefear paly 3 than 4 will, because not many blu cards in deck (have 4th will on side)

i tired without any counter, but really some opponent s start hand is kill for me

also i have just one big doubt,is eidolon, that sometimes can be great, but very often i prefear with 2 mana, make 2 monster or one monster and 1 bolt,

sorry for my bad english

[Plm]

I've switch to blue slight when top was ban, and am enjoying it very much :laugh:

I play the 2 color version with 2 lavamancer because I wasn't happy with the steppe linx (which are so bad a top deck, it's not worth the strain on the manabase) also barbarian ring is so fun.

Something I like is guys at my local saying "why don't you play a real deck" then dying on turn 3!
The deck is so fast and quite resilient (3-0 in matches VS eldrazi, it surprises me how the deck can cope with chalice).

Because of life, kids and stuff I didn't post about it, but the deck is so fun and I went undefeated this week.

I think that one of the strengh of the deck is that people think UR delver. they play around force, expect stuff like nemesis, pyromancer, and snapcaster and they die in flame.

I almost would play a second wrath but not sure if cutting the 3rd forked bolt is the right move (meta is pyromancer and elves! . pyromancer are numerous , whereas elves! is just one guy but he rules my meta).

Thank you hanni for the imput, I don't post much but knows that your work is appreciated (and there is some interest in the archetype so keep the good stuff comming)

[Hanni]

I've switch to blue slight when top was ban, and am enjoying it very much :laugh:

I play the 2 color version with 2 lavamancer because I wasn't happy with the steppe linx (which are so bad a top deck, it's not worth the strain on the manabase) also barbarian ring is so fun.

Something I like is guys at my local saying "why don't you play a real deck" then dying on turn 3!
The deck is so fast and quite resilient (3-0 in matches VS eldrazi, it surprises me how the deck can cope with chalice).

Because of life, kids and stuff I didn't post about it, but the deck is so fun and I went undefeated this week.

I think that one of the strengh of the deck is that people think UR delver. they play around force, expect stuff like nemesis, pyromancer, and snapcaster and they die in flame.

I almost would play a second wrath but not sure if cutting the 3rd forked bolt is the right move (meta is pyromancer and elves! . pyromancer are numerous , whereas elves! is just one guy but he rules my meta).

Thank you hanni for the imput, I don't post much but knows that your work is appreciated (and there is some interest in the archetype so keep the good stuff comming)

I have not played with this deck in a while, and not at all after Top was banned. Regardless, I'm also convinced that Steppe Lynx simply isn't worth it anymore, and that the two color list with Grim Lavamancer is much better.

I'm still undecided on how I feel about Thunderous Wrath, but I would not run more than 1.

However, now that Counterbalance is no longer a major threat, and after having made Top 4 of Eternal Weekend with a deck playing Gitaxian Probe, I am going to cut the 4 Rift Bolt for 4 Gitaxian Probe. I still like Rift Bolt against Chalice decks, and it's nice to be able to curve out against Delver while dodging Daze, but it's just not as necessary anymore, and Probe brings a lot to the table.

Going down on burn density isn't exactly what I want to do, but being able to increase my creature density without cutting instants/sorceries for creatures is something I do want. I tried Ponder out and did not like it here... cantrip heavy hands kill this decks tempo, and the deck is mostly a pile of redundancy anyway. I never really gave Probe a fair shake, though. Probe doesn't have the Ponder problem... it doesn't have any negative effect in tempo.

Like I said, Probe brings a lot to the table. I used to think that the info didn't matter much to this deck, since it wouldn't really change my lines at all, but I was wrong. Even innocuous things like knowing whether to fetch the basic Mountain or Volcanic can be a big deal. Probe helps hit Threshold for Barbarian Ring and it helps fill the yard for Lavamancer. It also provides free pumps for Swiftspear, which is in fact relevant... every point of damage counts.

With Probe, I definitely wouldn't play Thunderous Wrath.

Anyway, here's my current list for this new Topless meta:

Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer

Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Forked Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Seal of Removal
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle

[Commander Eesha]

Even if i could see your point about droping the Steppe Lynx, I still hesitate about droping all the white. I used some cards in the SB with success.
The more spicy was the one Spirit of Labyrinth i side against every blue deck. The fact that she is a 3/1 matches the aggressiveness of this deck. T1 Delver + T2 Spirit is quite unfun for those pesky cantrip players. (I usually side out one BS.)
I got some scoops against combo with T1 Delver, T2 Spirit AND T3 Ethersworn Canonist.

I get that maybe i'm playing the deck wrong. I'm not saying than my aproach is better, just think hatebears matches better the philosophy of the deck than counterspells. They do some damage while control our opponent.
Wear/Tear against some Laylines was another thing I could do with white.

After some 3-0 in the weekly league of my city I stopped playing the deck. My local meta shifted from fair decks to fast combo, where U/R Delver do it better (Even if I LOVE Sligh).

How are 4 FOW in the sideboard working for you?

I can see myself trying your build. When I was building this deck by myself i found some slots that really don't know what to fill with, so, some air that trigger prowess and other goodies seems like a good idea.

Cutting Rift Bolt is better than an split with forked bolt?.

I played Sudden Shock to some degree because I hate the Deathrithes gaining life and a resolved Mother of Runes. Not really impresed by, but "match my style".

[Hanni]

Pretty sure I'm back to this being my go-to deck again. Losing Probe means I'm back to Rift Bolt, which is fine since I expect to see more Chalice and Counterbalance in the meta.

[Hanni]

https://i.redd.it/n0u6b7gs8nk51.png

Color-shifted Steppe Lynx.

This card is a really big deal for this deck. Steppe Lynx wasn't worth dipping into white for, especially with how bad having to run a Tundra was to enable turn 1 Daze. However, given the current metagame, I'm pretty content cutting the 2 maindeck Grim Lavamancer and 2 Price of Progress for them.

When I used to run the 3c Sligh list, Lynx would regularly swing as a 4/5 on turns 2 and 3, which deals more total damage by turn 3 than any other creature. It loses consistency going into the midgame, but given the hyper aggressive nature of the list, is usually irrelevant.

I'd probably sleeve this up:

R/u Sligh

Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures (16)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Hell Hound of Akoum
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide

Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Forked Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
2 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Seal of Removal
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle

Maybe 2 Volcanic Island isn't enough and I would need to trim a fetchland or two for the extra copies, but I'd start by testing this configuration first.

[FTW]

For UR Delver decks, and especially with under 30 spells, you're going to want 4 Ponder. It helps set up Delver flips, trigger Swiftspear without giving up a card, find SB pieces, and dig you into more burn.

With Ponder, 16 lands should be fine. You could cut down a few burn spells and Barbarian Ring. Forked Bolt seems weak as a 4-of. Shocking the opponent (2 damage) is a bad value for a card, and you shouldn't need 4 Forked effects main to deal with creatures.

Brainstorm + Ponder also lets you consider Thunderous Wrath as a 1-of.

[Mr. Safety]

For UR Delver decks, and especially with under 30 spells, you're going to want 4 Ponder. It helps set up Delver flips, trigger Swiftspear without giving up a card, find SB pieces, and dig you into more burn.

With Ponder, 16 lands should be fine. You could cut down a few burn spells and Barbarian Ring. Forked Bolt seems weak as a 4-of. Shocking the opponent (2 damage) is a bad value for a card, and you shouldn't need 4 Forked effects main to deal with creatures.

Brainstorm + Ponder also lets you consider Thunderous Wrath as a 1-of.

Respectfully, I think this is a fundamentally different deck than UR Delver. It has a lot of overlap, but there are some significant differences:

1) No Wastelands, No Forces maindeck, Daze is there only to protect early threats and retrigger Hellhound
2) Much higher burn saturation, it's the fundamental goal to kill opponents not leverage tempo
3) Forked Bolt is there to clear blockers, pure and simple, because early hits from Hellhound/Goblin Guide/Swiftspear are absolutely critical.

[Hanni]

For UR Delver decks, and especially with under 30 spells, you're going to want 4 Ponder. It helps set up Delver flips, trigger Swiftspear without giving up a card, find SB pieces, and dig you into more burn.

With Ponder, 16 lands should be fine. You could cut down a few burn spells and Barbarian Ring. Forked Bolt seems weak as a 4-of. Shocking the opponent (2 damage) is a bad value for a card, and you shouldn't need 4 Forked effects main to deal with creatures.

Brainstorm + Ponder also lets you consider Thunderous Wrath as a 1-of.

This deck is R/u Sligh, not U/r Delver. It has more in common with Zoo than with an actual Delver deck.

This deck has consistency with redundancy. Ponder consumes too much tempo to be worth playing in here. Brainstorm is an obvious exception given what it does to fix hands, but I'm not trying to spend a mana to dig for a card. I want to be spending my mana casting creatures and then burn spells.

26 spells to flip Delver isn't the best, but that's just how it works out.

The deck wants 18 lands because it wants to hit 2-3 land drops. The deck doesn't want to be forced into wasting multiple turns during the early game to dig for lands with cantrips. Barbarian Ring (and Fireblast to a lesser extent) smoothes this out by converting excess lands into burn in the midgame.

Forked Bolt is necessary to deal with early creatures. Maybe the amount ran can be less than 4, but you definitely want to be able to clear out early creatures, especially problems like Mother of Runes, Thalia, Ice-Fang Coatl, Infect creatures, Elves, etc. Rift Bolt is often too slow, and I'm already running Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning, so Forked Bolt is the next best thing. You could arguably split them with Searing Blaze, but the mana cost difference between 1 and 2 is huge here. Unlike Burn, some of my lands are non-basic, and I also run Daze.

This list, in previous incarnations, has been rigorously tested and has placed me in Top 8 (and some 1st place finishes) numerous times over the years. My win % with it was like 75% or better before I stopped playing magic for a while. I know the metagame has changed and the power level of the format has gone up, but the general structure of this deck shouldn't be changed.

[FTW]

I didn't mean that this was the same deck as UR Delver or should copy it.

But you're playing blue over monored for a reason, and a big reason is Delver. Turn 1 Delver is a good way to cheese wins. Delver will be harder to blind flip with only 26 spells. "Delver" tempo decks tend to run 30-ish spells and 10-ish cantrips. The build above will have a significantly lower chance of flipping Delvers. Unless you want a vanilla 1/1, Ponder seems good. Ponder costs tempo, but so does running Merfolk of the Pearl Trident.

Ponder is also good with Swiftspear, sets up consistent burn draws, or sets up consecutive landfall triggers. You can make it work for Sligh. Thunderous Wrath is another way to generate value by having cantrips. You're just at higher card parity getting 3-5 damage per card, instead of playing Shocks in burn.dec. Getting 2 damage out of a card is too little value for a burn strategy. Clearing blockers is important, but you can still do that with 2 Forked Bolt and all the other burn.

Edit: Just saw Hanni's response. Congrats on the success with the deck in the past. Did you not notice tempo stumbles when you draw 1/1 Delver and can't flip it? Barbarian Ring helps you get gas lategame, but a cantrip would do the same thing better (on average it's drawing you into a Bolt: UR for 3 damage instead of RR for 2 damage).

[Hanni]

Not flipping Delver sucks, but I want to be casting creatures on turns 1 and 2 (unless I need to cast a burn spell). Casting more creatures is better than wasting turn 2 casting a Ponder to dig for land #2 or flip my Delver. If I cast a Ponder on turn 3, it's not helping to flip Delver until turn 4. I tried to make Ponder work in older versions and it just wasn't worth it. Even at just 2 copies, I still had too many hands flooded with cantrips.

I understand how critical of a card Ponder is for most blue decks in the format, but it just isn't what this deck needs.

Sometimes the tempo stumbles with not flipping Delver does suck, but that's just how it goes. I need to be spending mana casting more creatures and burn spells during the first few turns. Sometimes a turn 2 Brainstorm is necessary, but it definitely impacts the tempo of the deck when it is.

Barbarian Ring is better than more cantrips in regards to hitting land drops early and then having gas in the midgame because it helps me to curve out to 2-3 lands within the first few turns without spending mana on a cantrip. There is no mana available to cantrip early, and I need to hit 2-3 lands naturally. Obviously Ponder is a fantastic card to cast in the midgame, but that's not where this deck is looking to operate at more effectively; it's the early turns that matter the most.

[FTW]

How good is the blue for you then?

Now that there's red Steppe Lynx, what if you just ran Rw Sligh with 8x Steppe Lynx. Then you can just curve out creatures and burn, without losing tempo to unflipped Delvers or cantrips, and you can build to maximize Lynx value.

[Hanni]

While that is certainly a feasible option, blue does add more than just Delver. Even with 26 spells, you're only slightly less than 50% to flip without the assistance of Brainstorm.

Brainstorm does a lot to increase the consistency by fixing hands. It's the best spell in the format for a reason. Casting it on turn 3 to toss back excess lands and creatures is a huge boost for the performance of this deck.

Daze also puts in a lot of work by answering problematic spells that the opponent curves into with no mana investment on my end. The ability to return a land to later enable Hounds as a 2/3 Kird Ape isn't bad either (or to Brainstorm away).

The blue splash also improves the combo matchups postboard by giving access to Force of Will (and Spell Pierce), where many of the white options are more narrow and less versatile against the field.

I'm not saying you couldn't trim lands, creatures, and/or burn spells for Ponder, or cut blue for white, and you could certainly still do well with them, but you're going to have a worse version compared to my list.

[Mr. Safety]

How does Fiery Islet fit into the equation?

[Hanni]

I'd think I'd rather have a guaranteed 2 damage from Barbarian Ring than a random draw off of the top, and I don't think the deck can afford to run both, but Fiery Islet can tap for blue and doesn't require Threshold, so it's certainly worth looking into.

[Mr. Safety]

I'd think I'd rather have a guaranteed 2 damage from Barbarian Ring than a random draw off of the top, and I don't think the deck can afford to run both, but Fiery Islet can tap for blue and doesn't require Threshold, so it's certainly worth looking into.

I figured with 18 lands, and only Brainstorm to dig, it might be a way to offset flooding. One thing I didn't consider was it's non-combo with Fireblast, which shouldn't come up too often with only 2 Fireblasts but it might not be worth the risk. The mana-base should *always* allow you to finish off with a Fireblast, it's an important part of stealing wins with Burn (in this case, Sligh.)

[KobeBryan]

For such an in your face deck, wouldn't light up the stage work wonders as card advantage that you sorely need?

[Hanni]

Light Up the Stage is an interesting card that I never got around to playtesting, that could be really good at refueling the deck on turns 3+. It's quite possible that it is worth running, but I cannot say for sure without trying it out. If I ever get around to playing this deck again, it is definitely worth looking into.

I wouldn't say the deck sorely needs the card advantage though, as it typically has enough gas to finish most games pretty quickly. There are a few matchups where I would love the extra gas though, so again, it's worth considering.

[Hanni]

So it has taken me a few days to re-evaluate the Hellhounds and higher creature count. The higher creature count hurts Delver flipping a tiny bit, but makes the deck so much more aggressive and consistent. The deck is now capable of flooding the board with aggressive creatures on turns 1 and 2 more consistently, and applies pressure way harder than it did with Grim Lavamancer.

With that being said, the deck might actually benefit from Light Up the Stage more now compared to previous versions, due to not needing to as efficiently use all of its mana in the first three turns as often to squeeze out 20 damage. It also helps fuel Hellhound and Swiftspear better past turn 3 against removal heavy decks.

I still don't want the full playset, but I'm willing to trim a couple of Forked Bolt for it.

I'm also cutting 2 Spell Pierce and 2 Seal of Removal in the board for 4 Force of Negation. 8 free hardcounters + Daze is pretty sick vs most of the combo decks in the format.

It's possible I could board the Forces now to deal with Chalice, and trim some of the Smash to Smithereens for Price of Progress or Blazing Volley or something, but it will require some testing.

I edited my decklist on the first page of this thread to reflect these changes.

[Blacksummer]

Hey Hanni,

I have always been a avid fan of UR sligh /counterburn type playstyle.
Even now with the established UR list, im still sticking to it.

However with the recent additional of Uro/Oko, it has been difficult to stay competitve as control decks stabalize much earlier and have ways to gain life.
I think the only way is to go even faster and all in with our deck.
With the printing of the new 1drop Akom dog together with the CA cards like LUTS and even sea-gate stormcaller, i think it is possible.

What i have been exploring is a "revival" of a past combo that has been deemed inefficient due to having to use 2cards to generate damage.
However if we think about it, Noxious revival + thunderous wrath is really synergistic with Akom dog and Sea-gate caller.

The following is a rough list and we can discuss below:

16lands

Creatures 15
4 Goblin Guide
4 Akom Dog
3 Sea-gate stormcaller
4 Monestary swiftspear

Spells 29
4 bolts
4 chain lightning
3 LUTS
2 Thunderous wrath
4 Brainstorm
4 ponder
3 Novious revival
1 Fireblast
4 Daze

Discussion
1)I got rid of delver of secrets, mainly because it becomes too slow if it does not flip. (However it is still one of the best 1drop out there for our deck so KIV)
2)Noxious revival by itself is a card disadvantage and does nothing. However there are afew ways to abuse it and synergizes well with the list.
-Low land count so if we keep a 1land hand. with a dog or swiftspear drop on t1, we can free cast at upkeep to get back our fetchland, with dog, netting 4dmg and with swiftspear it's free prowess. (Having 1land+noxious revival opening and mulling to 6 for 2lands is essentially the same)
-Set up of the traditional thunderous wrath combo
-Use with stormcaller to setup LUTS
-LUTS into noxious into putting back LUTS on top is very powerful ensuring steady fuel-line.
-A very obscure line with noxious revival is against combo decks like dredge/reanimator/hogaak/echo of eons/nic fit running rectors/even Uro is putting their key card to top of library at instant speed and 0cost, buying an additional turn.
3)The reason UR burn/tempo does not use snapcaster is usually due to the mana restrictions. However for a deck that focus mainly on hitting opponent hard early, we dont care about choosing spells and being reactive, we use it proactively with free double bolt. Of cos, copying cantrip for CA is always welcomed.
4)The deck almost does dmg to opponent's face every turn, so triggering spectacle for LUTS shouldn't be a problem.

If you wish to, we can discuss further in discord as well (not sure if you are in the UR delver discord?)

[FTW]

Interesting strategy.

Because you posted that, I'll share the "aggro" version of UR Delver I've had in my test gauntlet for most of 2020. It's based on the older burn-heavy UR Delver lists (Chain Lightning, no Wasteland, Prowess aggro), adding Dreadhorde Arcanist as a powerful engine. Arcanist enables the deck to go into burn mode by flashing back mutiple Bolts, or control mode by drawing cards and digging into more free counters. It's a proactive version playing cantrips and burn to enable Prowess, backed by 10 free counters.

I agree Fireblast/Thunderous Wrath gives a lot of potential for explosive finishes on top of the Bolts and beatdown.


//Lands: 16
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Volcanic Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Fiery Islet

//Creatures: 12
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Dreadhorde Arcanist

//Core Spells: 28
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Preordain
2 Force of Negation

//Flex Slots: 4
x Fireblast
x Thunderous Wrath
x Forked Bolt
x Soul-Scar Mage
x Sprite Dragon
x Preordain
x Spell Pierce

//Sideboard: 15
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Submerge
1 Blazing Volley
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle


Lately I've been running a burn package of 2 Fireblast + 1 Soul-Scar Mage + 1 Thunderous Wrath, which can lead to explosive T3 wins.
For example, with Arcanist + Swiftspear you can Bolt + Bolt flashback + Fireblast for 15 damage (10 burn + 3 prowess + 2 creatures)

I've also run less aggressive versions with more Preordain and other interaction.

What I like about this is the core of the deck is just a bunch of good cards, cards that work well in most combinations and matchups. The burn effects are all high damage output per card & mana spent, so you don't have to commit too many resources to the burn plan and have better angles to play for card parity. The high variance slots are limited to the flex slots, and SBing can allow you to switch roles depending on the matchup.

I haven't tried the Noxious combo. It has potential to turn on Thunderous Wrath, though it's also card disadvantage unless you use another tool like Sea Gate or Arcanist to enable it. I think the cantrips are already enough to use 1-2 Wrath well.

LUTS could be good here too. Haven't tried it yet. I prefer the precombat cantrips to Spectacle card draw, because of Prowess and Arcanist.

The deck is obviously weak to T1 Chalice, so there are 6 T0 counters for it main and 4 answers postboard.

[Zoid]

I used to play Thunderous Wrath in my UR Delver/UR Slight list before war of the spork.
While it was fun to play with, results were kind of mixed.
Unless you have a Brainstorm, a Wrath in your opening hand is an effective mulligan.
Noxious Revival seems too situational and slow since it does nothing if you can't even get a Wrath in your GY.
I tried it with Portent, which at least gives you the opportunity to miracle during the opponents turn and that was still meh.

On another note, I always disliked Force in that deck.
It is obviously necessary but the card disadvantage really hurts.
The best use case for the 2nd Force I drew was mostly to pitch it into the first.
I ran 3 main and 1+ Flusterstorms in the SB which I quite liked.
4 FoW + (x >0) FoN seems really painful for the aggro plan especially if you rely on bolts to the face which are typically not blue.

[FTW]

With the London mulligan now, there is a 0% chance of having it in any hand of size smaller than 7, so it's only a potential issue in a hand of 7 the rare times you have it and also never draw a Brainstorm. Otherwise even Ponder and Preordain help you set up when you draw it from library, and it's easy to blind Miracle in Volcanic Island.dec.

I agree it's higher variance though, so I only run 0-1 copies. Fireblast is also a mulligan unless the opponent is at 4 life. They're higher risk but higher reward if you want a faster clock.

[Zoid]

With the London mulligan now, there is a 0% chance of having it in any hand of size smaller than 7, so it's only a potential issue in a hand of 7 the rare times you have it and also never draw a Brainstorm. Otherwise even Ponder and Preordain help you set up when you draw it from library, and it's easy to blind Miracle in Volcanic Island.dec.

I agree it's higher variance though, so I only run 0-1 copies. Fireblast is also a mulligan unless the opponent is at 4 life. They're higher risk but higher reward if you want a faster clock.

That is true.

Fire Blast on the other hand costs 0 mana and can be used to kill a blocker to get more damage through.
Still I also dislike it for the same reason.

Personally I'm not much if a fan of "random" 1/2-offs.
I just don't like the high variance.

On topic, if you run blue I would consider some Vapor Snags.
Snag can really help you keep up the tempo and also protects against random 20/20 tokens.
Recursion with Arcanist is an added bonus, but usually games where that guy sticks are won anyway.

[FTW]

Yeah, I mean if you want to play more consistency you just play closer to UR Delver. That's why I have those as "flex slots". It could also be a mix of Preordains / Spell Pierce / Vapor Snag instead if you want lower variance against fair decks.

I just showed that "burn package" because it's one option to play the deck that's closer to to goal of RU Sligh and also closer to what Blacksummer was playing. It works if you need to race and are OK with variance. That's useful in some metagames where racing matters. For example, I used that version when testing gauntlets for Jeskai Breach and Zirda combo decks. OTP the "burn" version could just race those decks a non-trivial amount of time while also holding up Force, which created significant pressure to streamline those combos (to the point of degeneracy). The racing version seems best in combo heavy metas, threatening a turn 3-4 goldfish while also holding counters. In fairer metas, racing may matter less so other slots would come in.

Otherwise the main reason I like Force main is because the deck completely scoops to Chalice @ 1 or Trinisphere (other resistors to a lesser extent), and Force is the only reasonable maindeck answer. Some lists will run 2 maindeck Borrower, but you are kidding yourself if you think you can topdeck those Borrowers in time with all cantrips shut off, so I would not want to play those matches without G1 Force. Postboard we can bring in even more answers to beat Chalice.

The card disadvantage from Force hurts, but Arcanist really helps make it up. I also never cast burn at face until it would add up to lethal or could be recurred by Arcanist. This deck isn't flinging early Lava Spikes at the dome like mono R burn has to.

[Zoid]

Yeah, I mean if you want to play more consistency you just play closer to UR Delver. That's why I have those as "flex slots". It could also be a mix of Preordains / Spell Pierce / Vapor Snag instead if you want lower variance.

I just showed that "burn package" because it's one option to play the deck that's closer to to goal of RU Sligh and also closer to what Blacksummer was playing. It works if you need to race and are OK with variance. That's useful in some metagames where racing matters. For example, I used that version when testing gauntlets for Jeskai Breach and Zirda combo decks. OTP the "burn" version could just race those decks a non-trivial amount of time while also holding up Force, which created significant pressure to streamline those combos (to the point of degeneracy). The racing version seems best in combo heavy metas, threatening a turn 3-4 goldfish while also holding counters. In fairer metas, racing may matter less so other slots would come in.

Otherwise the main reason I like Force main is because the deck completely scoops to Chalice @ 1 or Trinisphere (other resistors to a lesser extent), and Force is the only reasonable maindeck answer. Some lists will run 2 maindeck Borrower, but you are kidding yourself if you think you can topdeck those Borrowers in time with all cantrips shut off, so I would not want to play those matches without G1 Force. Postboard we can bring in even more answers to beat Chalice.

The card disadvantage from Force hurts, but Arcanist really helps make it up. I also never cast burn at face until it would add up to lethal or could be recurred by Arcanist. This deck isn't flinging early Lava Spikes at the dome like mono R burn has to.

Yeah I guess it comes down to the meta and personal preference.
I played I think like 2 Abrade main and Smash to Smithereens in the side.
Abrade was ok but never really good.
I agree that Borrower is not a good plan.
That said if you play some 2+ drops like Nemesis, Dragon, Stormchaser Mage, w/e you can still put up some pressure.
However that is not a slight deck anymore IMO.

I'm still mad that it's a landfall dog this time and not a cat.
Even though they refuse to print a 2 mana cat lord I'm itching to play thundercats again at some point.

[Hanni]

In regards to LUTS vs Ponder, usually the plan on turn 1 and turn 2 is to cast creatures. Especially now with my creature count up to 16, that's pretty consistently what the deck should be doing. Sometimes you'll need to cast a burn spell instead, especially if the opponent plays a creature that demands an immediate removal spell (like Mother of Runes), but typically the first two turns you should be casting creatures.

This is one of the reasons for running 18 lands. I don't want to be cantripping until turn 3+ unless I have to. By turn 3+, it's usually not a problem to cast a burn spell to the opponent's face, enabling LUTS pre-combat to pump Swiftspear. I really want to able to hit my first two lands drops naturally (without relying on cantrips), as often as possible. Barbarian Ring helps increase consistency towards this by allowing me to run a higher land count while helping to alleviate mana flooding in the midgame by converting into a burn spell. Being uncounterable and a colorless source of damage can also be relevant.

I prefer the guaranteed burn of Barbarian Ring over the random draw off the top with Fiery Islet, but I do respect the fact that Islet can provide both blue and red mana. In either case, I'd much prefer to run 2 of either land with 18 total lands than to trim down to 16.

The deck has consistency with redundancy to not need too many cantrip effects, but at least in the case of LUTS, it provides card advantage. It's also relevant that it costs red instead of blue, making it much more reliable to cast with my manabase.

As far as Uro/Oko goes, the plan is to race the opponent down before those slower cards become effective. The Sligh version I run can consistently goldfish by turn 3. You need to be as aggressive as possible to get under the midrange decks. Daze also does alot of work at fighting against 3cc+ spells like Uro and Oko. A lot of times Ice-Fang Coatl doesn't have deathtouch until it's too late, and if they flash one out before it does get deathtouch, we can potentially hit it with Forked Bolt to still do a point of damage to the opponent as well.

I don't dislike the idea Smash to Smithereens postboard vs midrange. Hitting Arcum Astrolabe can make it difficult for the opponent to escape Uro, and hitting food tokens while the opponent doesn't have the mana to crack them for lifegain is also interesting. I do have Surgical Extraction and Pithing Needle in my board as well, so I'm not exactly sure how I'd want to board yet.

I'm not a fan of 2cc creatures in this deck (especially without haste). I realize that Sea Caller and Arcanist can provide card advantage, but they aren't aggressive enough. Even Arcanist flashing back Bolts makes it basically deal 4 damage per combat, which is as much damage as Akoum can deal for half the cost. Sea Caller is even worse, since it's technically a 3cc creature. There are plenty of games where the deck never gets to 3 mana.

The only 2cc creature I would consider would be Sprite Dragon, but I don't think it is better than the 1cc creatures that we already have. Even with haste, it's still too slow. If Gitaxian Probe was still legal, it might be worth running over Delver of Secrets, but alas.

Having a large amount of one drop creatures and flooding the board with creatures on turns 1 and 2, is the strongest strategy. You overload the opponent's removal, and produce too many threats for the opponent to deal with at the beginning of the game. By the time an opponent can stabilize, they are typically within burn range.

I think the extra countermagic dilutes the maindeck plan too much. We are attempting to do 20 damage as fast as possible, so we need all the gas that we can get, where the card disadvantage of Force of Will is a really big deal.

The lists you guys posted are interesting, but are not really the direction that I think the deck needs to go in to be competitive. If I'm not going full on Sligh, I would think a more standard Delver deck would simply perform better as an aggro/control deck.

I've tested Thunderous Wrath before, several different times, but it was just too high variance. Obviously it's a blank in the opener without Brainstorm, but even drawing it on turns 1-2 puts you in an akward position, because you really want to be casting creatures vs being sort of forced into casting Thunderous Wrath. It's also akward when you eat a Wasteland or cast a Daze, and don't have the mana to miracle Thunderous Wrath on the following draw step.

However, with the London Mulligan, it may be worth revisiting Thunderous Wrath now. When the card was good, it was great. 5 damage for 1 mana in a single burn spell is definitely nutty. However, it doesn't play well with LUTS, so I would be cutting those for them if I do try it. Ultimately, I think LUTS is going to be the better card, but who knows.

I would not run Noxious Revival though. Spending two cards to deal 5 damage is worse than just running more Bolts, especially with how bad Noxious Revival is when you don't have a Thunderous Wrath. I realize the combo costs 1 mana total for the 5 damage, and you're getting extra pumps for Swiftspear, but you are drastically reducing consistency for too little pay off.

I also think Delver is fine, even with only 26 spells to flip it. Brainstorm can be cast in upkeep to help trigger it, too. It does suck when it doesn't flip for a couple of turns, but there are tons of games where it does flip and the flying is extremely relevant for pushing damage through.

I do concede that the deck is weak to a turn 1 Chalice, but that's the concession that has to be made in order to have a better game 1 against the rest of the field. Obviously the countermagic would improve the combo matchups, but you give up too much gas against everything else. The reason to play this deck is because of how much stronger it is against the fair decks of the format, although it still has a respectable combo matchup due to its ability to goldfish on turn 3. If you want a more balanced deck, a standard Delver deck is the better way to go. However, matchups that a typical Delver deck may have a hard time dealing with (D&T, Snowko, Miracles, etc), this deck tends to crush them.

[rufus]

...

The lists you guys posted are interesting, but are not really the direction that I think the deck needs to go in to be competitive. If I'm not going full on Sligh, I would think a more standard Delver deck would simply perform better as an aggro/control deck.

...

Yeah, I get the impression that Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets and Akoum Hellhoud really fit with three different kinds of game plans, so it's going to be tricky to find a deck that successfully runs them all at once, or even one that combines two of the three. To me, it also seems like there aren't that many blue cards that fit really well with the Goblin Guide plan in particular.

Have you considered 1-2 Ghitu Lavarunners or Wayward Guide-Beasts? Force of Rage is also intriguing for the sligh game plan - trading 2 cards and 0 mana for 6 damage is pretty good rate even if you can't get the prowess trigger. [Nevermind, I misread the card.]

[Zoid]

Yeah, I get the impression that Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets and Akoum Hellhoud really fit with three different kinds of game plans, so it's going to be tricky to find a deck that successfully runs them all at once, or even one that combines two of the three. To me, it also seems like there aren't that many blue cards that fit really well with the Goblin Guide plan in particular.

Have you considered 1-2 Ghitu Lavarunners or Wayward Guide-Beasts? Force of Rage is also intriguing for the sligh game plan - trading 2 cards and 0 mana for 6 damage is pretty good rate even if you can't get the prowess trigger.

Force tokens are sac'ed at the beginning of your upkeep so you get 0 damage for 0 mana and 2 cards.
Not such a good deal IMO.

Guide-Beast is a meme card.
Why would you play a creature in slight that you don't want to play for the first few turns to not gimp yourself.

Soul-Scar Mage can at least be used to cut something Goyf or Angler shaped to size to allow your dudes to get more hits in without trading.

[rufus]

Force tokens are sac'ed at the beginning of your upkeep so you get 0 damage for 0 mana and 2 cards.
Not such a good deal IMO....

Gah, I misread it, and thought they stuck around until the end step.

[Zoid]

Gah, I misread it, and thought they stuck around until the end step.

That would make the card almost playable and we can't have red have a good card in a cycle.

[FTW]

Gah, I misread it, and thought they stuck around until the end step.

Why would you think red gets a burn spell when blue gets another Force? Overpowered.

[Hanni]

Yeah, I get the impression that Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets and Akoum Hellhoud really fit with three different kinds of game plans, so it's going to be tricky to find a deck that successfully runs them all at once, or even one that combines two of the three. To me, it also seems like there aren't that many blue cards that fit really well with the Goblin Guide plan in particular.

Have you considered 1-2 Ghitu Lavarunners or Wayward Guide-Beasts? Force of Rage is also intriguing for the sligh game plan - trading 2 cards and 0 mana for 6 damage is pretty good rate even if you can't get the prowess trigger. [Nevermind, I misread the card.]

Those cards do all fit in here, though. This might be the only deck that can, but those are the most aggressive one drops in the format.

Most RUG Delver lists these days are on 10-12 crestures, 2-3 Oko, and 19 lands. So you're looking at around 26-28 instants and sorceries in those lists, which is basically the same amount I'm on. The biggest difference is that I'm not running Ponder, but it's honestly not that big of a deal. My Delver's still flip frequently enough to be worth it, and I can still upkeep Brainstorm to help too. I also prioritize casting Akoum on turn 1 over Delver in most cases.

I am able to properly support Akoum and Swiftspear, and the card disadvantage from Guide is worth it. The goal is to deal 20 damage as fast as possible, and those 4 creatures are the best ones at doing so.

Ghitu Lavarunner is not consistent enough for me. I want to be casting creatures on turns 1 and 2. If Probe was still legal, it could be a legitimate replacement for one of the other four, but alas. Daze and Fireblast are my only free spells, and I see no reason to run other subpar free cards to enable it.

Wayward Guide-Beast is far more interesting, especially in my list with Akoum, and could be a serious contender for one of the slots. Trampling past a flashed in Coatl is a real thing, and returning a land can combo excellently with both Akoum and Brainstorm. I'll be keeping this one on my radar for sure.

[Blacksummer]

Those cards do all fit in here, though. This might be the only deck that can, but those are the most aggressive one drops in the format.

Most RUG Delver lists these days are on 10-12 crestures, 2-3 Oko, and 19 lands. So you're looking at around 26-28 instants and sorceries in those lists, which is basically the same amount I'm on. The biggest difference is that I'm not running Ponder, but it's honestly not that big of a deal. My Delver's still flip frequently enough to be worth it, and I can still upkeep Brainstorm to help too. I also prioritize casting Akoum on turn 1 over Delver in most cases.

I am able to properly support Akoum and Swiftspear, and the card disadvantage from Guide is worth it. The goal is to deal 20 damage as fast as possible, and those 4 creatures are the best ones at doing so.

Ghitu Lavarunner is not consistent enough for me. I want to be casting creatures on turns 1 and 2. If Probe was still legal, it could be a legitimate replacement for one of the other four, but alas. Daze and Fireblast are my only free spells, and I see no reason to run other subpar free cards to enable it.

Wayward Guide-Beast is far more interesting, especially in my list with Akoum, and could be a serious contender for one of the slots. Trampling past a flashed in Coatl is a real thing, and returning a land can combo excellently with both Akoum and Brainstorm. I'll be keeping this one on my radar for sure.

Do you think there are any merits to adding G into the deck for mandrils / pumpspells like become immense /scale-up etc?
Only need 1 green source.

[Hanni]

The third color splash is not worth it. I tried it before to splash white for Steppe Lynx a couple of years back.

I'm not really a fan of pump spells, but if I were to run one, it would be Mutagenic Growth, which doesn't require green (or any) mana.

[Blacksummer]

The third color splash is not worth it. I tried it before to splash white for Steppe Lynx a couple of years back.

I'm not really a fan of pump spells, but if I were to run one, it would be Mutagenic Growth, which doesn't require green (or any) mana.

Yea was wondering the same thing...pumps are the fastest way to get to 20dmg though the risk is very high if opponent has any removal at all.
I myself have been playing UR prowess since after TOP was banned, with the recent addition of arcanist + sprite to replace soulscar/stormchaser.
It's a really rigid list and very consistant...been try to innovate with thunderous wraths and addition of green for scale up combo with arcanist but they were not reliable enough. It makes the manabase less consistant and you rarely have the window/time to play the pumps.
Not sure if you would consider this sligh but i find that the list plays wells and is highly aggressive.

16lands
tarns x4
blue fetch x4
red fetch x1
volcs x 3
island x 2
mountain x2

14creatures
-delver x4
-swiftspear x4
-sprite dragon x3
-arcanist x3

30 spells
-bolts x8
-cantrips x10
-fow x4
-daze x4
-snag x2
-fireblast x1
-growth x1

Sideboard
-pyro x3
-abrade x2
-pillar x2
-surgical x2
-borrower x2
-volley x1
-fon x1
-null x1
-cage x1

Quick note: TBH, i find the aggressive approach nowdays to be much weaker against control decks where they play so many basics. Prowess was really powerful when POP is good.

[Hanni]

The UR Delver deck is a perfectly good deck that regularly makes Top 8, but it's a different deck.

Sligh doesn't want any 2cc creatures, excess cantrips, Force of Will (maindeck), Wasteland, etc. Sligh wants to overload the opponent's removal with aggressive one drops, and wants a high density of burn spells to close the game out. The deck is basically a cross between UR Delver and Burn.

In UR Delver, you're trading speed and redundancy for control elements. This is going to improve your combo matchups, but is going to make the fair matchups more difficult. You certainly have game against everything in the field, but there are no lop-sided matchups.

On the other hand, Sligh has a more difficult game one against combo, having to race them (but does go up to 4 Daze and 8 Force postboard). However, Sligh has lop-sided matchups against most of the fair decks, which tend to be a larger portion of the field.

Where UR Delver can struggle against Miracles, 4c Snowko, D&T, etc, Sligh pretty much annihilates those decks.

The extra cantrips improve card quality, but they do so at the cost of tempo. The Forces (and Wasteland) help improve tempo, but they do so at the cost of gas. So you run cards like Arcanist and Sprite to compensate for the gas, but now you're entire game plan is much slower at dealing 20 damage. You are much more dependent on dealing damage with your creatures beyond the first few turns of the game, and you are far less likely to get under the opponent's more powerful cards.

Again, I'm not knocking UR Delver at all, but it's a much different deck than Ru Sligh.

My current Sligh list, for reference:

R/u Sligh

Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures (16)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Akoum Hellhound
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide

Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
2 Light Up the Stage
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
2 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
4 Force of Will
4 Force of Negation
4 Smash to Smithereens
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle

[FTW]

Hanni, how has UR Sligh been performing against the current top decks?



I myself have been playing UR prowess since after TOP was banned, with the recent addition of arcanist + sprite to replace soulscar/stormchaser.
It's a really rigid list and very consistant...been try to innovate with thunderous wraths and addition of green for scale up combo with arcanist but they were not reliable enough. It makes the manabase less consistant and you rarely have the window/time to play the pumps.
Not sure if you would consider this sligh but i find that the list plays wells and is highly aggressive.

16lands
tarns x4
blue fetch x4
red fetch x1
volcs x 3
island x 2
mountain x2

14creatures
-delver x4
-swiftspear x4
-sprite dragon x3
-arcanist x3

30 spells
-bolts x8
-cantrips x10
-fow x4
-daze x4
-snag x2
-fireblast x1
-growth x1

Sideboard
-pyro x3
-abrade x2
-pillar x2
-surgical x2
-borrower x2
-volley x1
-fon x1
-null x1
-cage x1

Quick note: TBH, i find the aggressive approach nowdays to be much weaker against control decks where they play so many basics. Prowess was really powerful when POP is good.

That's pretty close to the version of UR that I have too, posted on the last page. Yeah it's evolved from the more aggressive Prowess version of UR Delver, but Hanni doesn't consider that Sligh.

Our lists differ by only a few cards:
-2 FoN
-1 Fireblast
-1 Thunderous Wrath
-1 Arcanist
-1 Soul-Scar Mage
-1 Fiery Islet
+3 Sprite Dragon
+2 Snag
+1 Growth
+1 blue fetch

It has gotten worse without POP, so we need more explosive burn through other sources. I've experimented with Fireblast and Thunderous Wrath.

The maindeck I had was good in more degenerate combo metas (Breach, storm, companions) and was tuned for that but not as good against control.

Snag is good in this meta and probably deserves a spot in my list. Sprite Dragon looks strong, but I don't like that it can't be bigger than 1/1 until turn 3. It slows things down. I was trying to speed up the clock a bit, but that involves running some high-variance cards.

Our SBs are close too. (3 Pyro, 2 Borrower, 2 Surgical, 1 Volley, 2 artifact kill)

I have Smash to Smithereens instead of Abrade in the SB, because there are already 8 bolts main so there shouldn't be as much need for Searing Spear, but getting the free Lava Spike off the artifact kill is good for racing.

Pillar is a good idea, more aggressive than the counters I board in for combo.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this topic too far off UR Sligh.

[Zoid]

Is PoP even playable anymore?
I used to love this card but with Snoko and other more basic centric decks around, it seems not good enough

@Hanni :
With that SB what do you take out vs combo?
Since you want to board in 8-10 cards, do you still have enough pressure with all the forces?

[Hanni]

You guys are welcome to discuss the UR Delver list in here, but you are right that I don't consider it Sligh. Sligh is a pure aggro deck, where those versions are basically aggro/control.


Is PoP even playable anymore?
I used to love this card but with Snoko and other more basic centric decks around, it seems not good enough

@Hanni :
With that SB what do you take out vs combo?
Since you want to board in 8-10 cards, do you still have enough pressure with all the forces?

I used to run Price of Progress, but there are just too many basics these days that render it too unreliable. It could definitely find a way into the sideboard for the matchups where it's strong, but I wouldn't run it in the maindeck anymore.

The deck still has enough pressure postboard against combo, although the consistency of the fundamental goldfish turn does go down. Still, killing by turn 4 should be fine with all of the countermagic.

I typically cut the weaker burn spells first, like Forked Bolt and Rift Bolt. Forked Bolt only deals 2 damage, and the 1 turn delay on Rift Bolt is oftentimes the difference between dealing lethal and losing.

Beyond that, I used to cut Price of Progress in my old list, but since I don't have it anymore, the cut is probably some creatures. The point to running 16 creatures is to flood them against fair decks to overload their removal, but since most combo decks don't have removal, we should be able to safely cut down on them.

While I would prefer to cut Delver, since the flying is less relevant and it's the least consistent at dealing damage, we need them for the blue spell count.

Goblin Guide will end up being the cut. Giving the combo opponent free card draw can be very bad. Sometimes Guide can deal more damage overall than Swiftspear depending on the hand, but usually Swiftspear is more explosive. Akoum may be slightly higher variance, but it has the potential to deal the most damage by turns 3-4.

So to fit in the 8 Forces, I'd cut 2 Goblin Guide, 4 Rift Bolt, and 2 Forked Bolt.

I wouldn't bring in Surgical Extraction against combo matchups where it's not being used as graveyard hate, like Sneak and Show, because we're not playing to the long game.

If I need Surgical Extraction or Pithing Needle, in addition to the 8 Forces, the he next cuts would either be more Goblin Guide, or Light Up the Stage. I'm still not 100% sure on this yet. Going down to 14 creatures should consistently give us 2 creatures drawn naturally by turn 2, where going down to 12 is 1 creature drawn out of every 5 cards, but maybe we need the extra gas from Light Up the Stage to compensate for the card disadvantage of the Forces and reduced amount of burn maindeck? I'm leaning towards cutting the Light Up the Stage, but maybe that's wrong.