Fake Cards

[Jacemindbreak]

What would you do if you caught someone using fake cards in a tournament?

[Grymer]

call the judge?

[Phoenix Ignition]

call the judge

[Jacemindbreak]

what happens to that player?

[Tha Gunslinga]

I caught a guy with a fake Ruby at Gencon a couple years ago. I mentioned it to him, he said he didn't realize it, I didn't press the issue, he top-8ed and lost.

[KevinTrudeau]

Are we talking about, say, a very finely-tuned fake (i.e. needing a jeweler's loupe to distinguish, something I've just now started wearing to in-person tournaments during at least the entirety of the first game of every match), or a Blastoise with purple sharpie on it? If the former, I'd let it slide and tell the opponent after the tournament is over. If the latter, I'd call a judge, and then tell the opponent about it after the tournament is over.

[Malchar]

For reference, according to the infaction procedure guide, the penalty is a game loss, with the following additional remedy:


Remove any cards from the deck that are illegal for the format or violate the maximum number allowed, fix any failures to de-sideboard, restore any missing cards if they (or identical replacements) can be located, then alter the decklist to reflect the remaining deck. If the remaining deck has too few cards, add basic lands of the player’s choice to reach the minimum number. If the deck and decklist both violate a maximum cards restriction (usually too many cards in a sideboard or more than four of a card), remove cards starting from the bottom of the appropriate section of the list.

If the player, upon drawing an opening hand, discovers a deck problem and calls a judge at that point, the Head Judge may downgrade the penalty, fix the deck, and allow the player to redraw the hand with one fewer card. The player may continue to take further mulligans if he or she desires.

I'm not certain, but it appears that you get to replace the fake cards with real ones if you have them. If you can't, and the deck would go under the legal minimum, you add your choice of basic land until it's legal.

If the fake cards were used intentionally then it's fraud which results in disqualification. Also, if you notice fake cards being used in your game and do not report it, then you are guilty of fraud.

[Tha Gunslinga]

If the fake cards were used intentionally then it's fraud which results in disqualification. Also, if you notice fake cards being used in your game and do not report it, then you are guilty of fraud.

See, what would happen if I reported it is the judge would say, "Well, it looks real to me," then the player would say, "Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is, I think my opponent is just fishing for a game loss, especially since I just 2-0'd him," then I would be screwed. I wouldn't trust the average dealer to tell a good fake from a real card, and I wouldn't trust the average judge to either. Judges are there to deal with rules issues, not determine a card's authenticity.

[Skeggi]

Judges are there to deal with rules issues, not determine a card's authenticity.

This is your opinion. It is false since the rules state that only genuine cards are allowed. Judges do have to determine a card's authenticity, period (and therefor should be able to). The fact that you're better at it than the average judge shouldn't matter.

[The Wolf]

As long as my opponent wasn't using them to cheat some how, I wouldnt even call a judge if they had black and white photo copies.

[dontbiteitholmes]

This is your opinion. It is false since the rules state that only genuine cards are allowed. Judges do have to determine a card's authenticity, period (and therefor should be able to). The fact that you're better at it than the average judge shouldn't matter.

If a fake is fairly obvious or you think your opponent knows the card is fake you should call a judge. If you are fishing for a win and you think the card is a professionally made fake (example one of the infamous "Xerox Employee" power and you are in GenCon Vintage Worlds) then it's likely the opponent doesn't know and you are a dick if you are trying to get them a match loss for an honest mistake. That would be the ultimate insult, get a match loss and find out your Time Walk is actually worth nothing at the same moment. If you think your opponent is playing with fake cards on accident you should tell them your concerns after the match and let them know that they should get a dealer to check it out because someone could randomly blow them out by revealing the card to be fake. Unless the fake is provable without the use of magnification don't expect too much attention from a judge. The last thing they are going to want is assholes calling them at the end of every round asking them to inspect all their opponents expensive cards because they are fishing.

[Tha Gunslinga]

you think the card is a professionally made fake (example one of the infamous "Xerox Employee" power and you are in GenCon Vintage Worlds) then it's likely the opponent doesn't know and you are a dick if you are trying to get them a match loss for an honest mistake.

It was a "Dark Beta" Unlimited Mox Ruby, and it was a pretty good fake.

[Setherial]

As long as my opponent wasn't using them to cheat some how, I wouldnt even call a judge if they had black and white photo copies.

well said!!