SCG Memphis Top 4

[lordofthepit]

Elves vs. MUD
Burn vs. Junk

Zero blue cards. Who was it that said you can't win in Legacy without blue?

[guelahpapyrus]

Watching this right now. Loving it.

[sdematt]

Junk in the finals? Tits.

-Matt

[Lt. Quattro]

Elves vs. MUD
Burn vs. Junk

Zero blue cards. Who was it that said you can't win in Legacy without blue?

Would higher caliber players attend a starcity games event or a grand prix?

[lordofthepit]

Would higher caliber players attend a starcity games event or a grand prix?

Judging from the plays these guys are making, it should be obvious, but nonetheless, non-blue decks are perfectly fine.

[ddt15]

Mono red finals! :cool:

[Machahiko]

In b4 MUD winning scg and people going apeshit about welder and/or metalworker.

[Aggro_zombies]

In b4 MUD winning scg and people going apeshit about welder and/or metalworker.
Putting my money on Burn taking down another one and people going apeshit about Burn winning yet another SCG.

EDIT: Guess not.

[(nameless one)]

My boys taking it all (Welder and Metalworker).

[dontbiteitholmes]

I wouldn't take the results too seriously. There were under 100 people there and most of them were pretty noobish. Lots of people playing whatever they could get their hands on with zero playtesting.

[SlopeeJ]

players there are no worse then anywhere else

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I wouldn't take the results too seriously. There were under 100 people there and most of them were pretty noobish. Lots of people playing whatever they could get their hands on with zero playtesting.

As an isolated incident, that's totally true.

However, this is in many ways just another confirmation of the trend away from blue "good card" based decks, into more traditionally Legacy strategies relying on synergy.

[xfxf]

Some people here said the opression of the Brainstorm decks was a trend not actual show of power. I'm happier with each tournament that proves it.

[Hanni]

Ban Brainstorm! O wait...

[lavafrogg]

What won?? Please say junk!!

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Welder MUD did.

[Sevryn]

sorry for ignorance, but what is Junk?

[Gui]

BGW Junk?

[lavafrogg]

Boo, stupid welder mud/burn finals! Burn always has a chance to get ahead of a junk player before the game stabilizes. Welder in the finals is pretty awesome though, I'm not familiar with the deck enough to say what it has been given in the new sets that have made it playable.

[joemauer]

Dear WotC,

Could you please nerf the colors green, red, black, and white so the previously unstoppable combo of Force of Will+Brainstorm can be top dog again? While you are it could you guys ban all sol lands?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Metalworker and Monolith back on the banned list in March jajajajajajajaja.

[majikal]

lol Sullivan was marvelling at the sheer number of once-banned cards in MUD. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[sdematt]

That Junk list wasn't the right type of list to take on Burn, unfortunately. Had it been a Junk-MUD final, oh derps.

-Matt

[Gheizen64]

I've tried the MUD list and doesn't seem good at all to me. I guess he had a lot of good draws with his lands, because those kind of deck just derp on itself once every 3-4 games.

[majikal]

I've tried the MUD list and doesn't seem good at all to me. I guess he had a lot of good draws with his lands, because those kind of deck just derp on itself once every 3-4 games.
The meta was mostly combo. What probably happened is he played Trinisphere on turn 1 or 2 a lot and watched everyone else cry.

One of my friends played against Belcher 3 rounds in a row, and I personally played against Reanimator, Belcher (an entirely different player than the other 3), and High Tide, and the other matches I played had combo-on-combo matches on either side of me 3/4 of the time.

edit: Burn was also really well-represented. Star City apparently sold out of Flame Rifts even before the Standard Open began after bringing a huge stack of them. I'd be really interested in a meta breakdown of this tournament, even though it had fewer than 100 players.

[dontbiteitholmes]

As an isolated incident, that's totally true.

However, this is in many ways just another confirmation of the trend away from blue "good card" based decks, into more traditionally Legacy strategies relying on synergy.

No, I mean I was there, like physically there. I got no sleep the night before and drew two rounds in a row that I probably should have won then went on full tilt so this was my worst SCG in a while. At the same time there were under 100 people there and probably 40+ of them had never played Legacy before last month. I talked to a total of probably 15% of the people who actually played Legacy on Sunday and almost all of them were playing whatever they could get their hands on. I'm talking burn because it's cheap, Time Reversal in Tendrils sideboard because they couldn't find Diminishing Returns, no Wasteland Goblins, Shocklands instead of duals for example. Apparently Memphis has zero Legacy scene and most of the people who had the cards ended up going to Baltimore.

Sure there were still some skilled players there, I'm not saying everyone was a scrub. Though this SCG had by far the lowest turnout and the highest ratio of new Legacy players of any SCG I've ever been to and it showed. I wouldn't count on any of the decks that did well here actually being the best decks. Just by the % of new players it would have been pretty easy for someone to sneak into top 8 and this event had [b]BY FAR[b] the lowest amount of Force of Wills I've ever seen. I think for most people it was seriously an affordability issue.

[dr.philgood]

Another thing that could explain the performance of that MUD list, in the finals the guy running it tried to say that 3-sphere + lodestone made everything cost 4, he had probably been playing it that way all day as well. lol. And he got some nice draws, like a 3rd turn hasted blight-steel good.

[death]

Finally I can sell my Korean Tombs for $600 mwhahahaha

[Koby]

Finally I can sell my Korean Tombs for $600 mwhahahaha

600? Sign me up, I got a few that could be liquidated at that price. :D

[wizard_of_gore]

I know why burn was on second place.
Because he didn't play shatter in sideboard. He would have better chance against MUD with shatter in sideboard.

Shatter is MVP.

something is wrong with legacy.

[majikal]

i know why burn was on second place.
Because he didn't play shatter in sideboard. He would have better chance against mud with shatter in sideboard.

Shatter is mvp.

Something is wrong with legacy.

That problem is Combust. I MEAN... WHAT A FUCK?????

[alderon666]

After I saw the Burn playing casting a mainphase Fireblast going to 1 Mountain and putting his opponent at 1, for no reason at all, I gave up on it. Too bad that he drew the burn spell 1 turn before he could be punished for his stupid play.

[Vacrix]

Finally blue is getting crushed. Now people will stop bitching about Brainstorm.

I think Legacy is emerging as the most diverse its been in a long time.

[lordofthepit]

After I saw the Burn playing casting a mainphase Fireblast going to 1 Mountain and putting his opponent at 1, for no reason at all, I gave up on it. Too bad that he drew the burn spell 1 turn before he could be punished for his stupid play.

I thought it was a terrible play at the time too, but in retrospect, he might have been playing around double life gain (i.e. two Swords to Plowshares), especially since he saw one flipped off a Goblin Guide trigger.

[Koby]

I thought it was a terrible play at the time too, but in retrospect, he might have been playing around double life gain (i.e. two Swords to Plowshares), especially since he saw one flipped off a Goblin Guide trigger.

And putting him at 1 life doesn't change anything with that play...

Forgot Pillar was in play. Nevermind.

[lordofthepit]

And putting him at 1 life doesn't change anything with that play...

On the contrary, if he saved the Fireblast:
1) Swords my Knight. (Swords effect on the stack, followed by 2 damage from Pillar.)
2) After 2 damage from pillar, Fireblast you in response.
3) Swords my Knight (Swords #1 on stack, Fireblast on stack, Swords #2 on stack, followed by 2 damage from Pillar.)

The Pillar would have taken him down to 1 life, but Swords gains him like 7-8 before Fireblast resolves.

I probably would have saved the Fireblast too, but there was logic in playing the Fireblast right there.

[alderon666]

When he went all in on the Fireblast, his opponent board was:
2x Noble Hierarch, Plains, Forest

If anything, at least wait for the opponent to get a big creature on the stack and then go all in on the Fireblast. Every other non-Zenith spell on the opponents deck just puts him at dead to the Fireblast and double Swords isn't a plan until Knight enters play by a Zenith.

Going all in at that spot was completely wrong and he should know that because he had access to the decklist. When I saw that I just wanted him to draw 2cc burns spells for 10 turns in a row.

[menace13]

I know why burn was on second place.
Because he didn't play shatter in sideboard. He would have better chance against MUD with shatter in sideboard.

Shatter is MVP.

something is wrong with legacy.

Smash to Smithereens>>Shatter.

Everything is wrong with Legacy.

[(nameless one)]

Smash to Smithereens>>Shatter.

Everything is wrong with Legacy.

What's wrong with Shattering Spree?

[menace13]

What's wrong with Shattering Spree?

Spree is excellent and has many benefits over Smash, the best being that it is almost uncounterable. Only advantage Smash has is the damage and it is an instant .

[Erdvermampfa]

you guys are annoying. Just because there's one final in a year without any blue decks, that doesn't necessarily mean that Legacy is balanced suddenly...

[joemauer]

you guys are annoying. Just because there's one final in a year without any blue decks, that doesn't necessarily mean that Legacy is balanced suddenly...

The funny part is whenever a deck with force of will+brainstorm or show and tell wins a big tourney of any sorts then people start crying that the format is imbalanced. Saying stuff like "Blue strikes again!"

Do you think Legacy is balanced right now? If not, why not? What is your definition of a balanced format?

[lordofthepit]

When he went all in on the Fireblast, his opponent board was:
2x Noble Hierarch, Plains, Forest

If anything, at least wait for the opponent to get a big creature on the stack and then go all in on the Fireblast. Every other non-Zenith spell on the opponents deck just puts him at dead to the Fireblast and double Swords isn't a plan until Knight enters play by a Zenith.

Going all in at that spot was completely wrong and he should know that because he had access to the decklist. When I saw that I just wanted him to draw 2cc burns spells for 10 turns in a row.

I forgot that he has full access to the decklist, in which case the line of you described would be much better. I suppose there was no reason to be worried about something like Timely Reinforcements + Blossoming Wreath even if it weren't the case! :laugh:

So he pulled the trigger at the wrong time. I think most people (including myself) assumed the correct time would have been "as soon as the Rock players takes a Pyrostatic trigger to go down three, or as soon as he fetches to four, or as soon as you rip another relevant burn spell". That wouldn't have necessarily been correct either.

[xfxf]

I think Legacy being balanced means the format is in a state just like the boiling point of a matter. It is not at a steady equilibrium at all but at a constant change between different ends and the effects cancelling each other thus the system staying in equilibrium as the net result.

Meaning, that when blue decks get strong or overplayed their predators come out of hiding and then combo decks come out of hiding to prey on those and then blue comes out to prey on combo again.
/oversimplification

Well if with the same card pool the meta is shifting slightly every 2-3 months I think its in that constant-changing equilibrium state. If you don't know what deck to pick for a large event because your strategy on praying certain decks or beating certain decks end-up in a chicken egg problem and you can't clearly decide on a deck solely on its matchups the meta is in balance.

However, this state of the meta also implies that there can't be any established succesfull control decks because the control area isn't clearly defined. But I understand that it is a desirable aspect for many players because during the MM there were some comments basically saying: "there'll always be players who want a static well defined format where they can play their favourite blue decks and there'll be the majority who likes to play in a diverse format". I understood that non-rotating formats which enable well defined control decks are regarded by quite a few people as "stagnant and unbalanced". Currently there is no pure control deck which has established its place in the format and it's a sign of constant flux.

Yes the format has some top dogs, two of them being blue, but can you reliably take one of those aiming to win the next big tournament? If High Tide, Burn, MUD etc. can play finals in SCG opens week after week it means right now you can take any deck you feel comfortable with and expect to be successful if you are good with the deck.