[EDH] Oona, Queen of the Fae

[Kuma]

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/shm/172.jpg

Lands: (35)

Underground Sea
Watery Grave
Polluted Delta
Bloodstained Mire
Marsh Flats
Verdant Catacombs
Scalding Tarn
Misty Rainforest
Flooded Strand
Reflecting Pool
City of Brass
Command Tower
Forbidden Orchard
Sunken Ruins
Darkwater Catacombs
Underground River
Drowned Catacomb
River of Tears
Darkslick Shores
Exotic Orchard
Tolaria West
Seat of the Synod
Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Vault of Whispers
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Tolaria
Magosi, the Waterveil
Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Cephalid Coliseum
Gemstone Mine
Snow-Covered Island
Snow-Covered Swamp
Island
Swamp

Acceleration: (15)

Chrome Mox
Mox Diamond
Mox Opal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lotus Bloom
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Mana Vault
Grim Monolith
Dimir Signet
Basalt Monolith
Gilded Lotus
Dark Ritual
Cabal Ritual
Fellwar Stone

Card Draw/Selection: (5)

Sensei's Divining Top
Stroke of Genius
Timetwister
Ad Nauseam
Time Spiral

Tutors: (20)

Vampiric Tutor
Imperial Seal
Mystical Tutor
Personal Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Tainted Pact
Lim-Dul's Vault
Transmute Artifact
Praetor's Grasp
Grim Tutor
Fabricate
Shred Memory
Muddle the Mixture
Dimir Infiltrator
Trinket Mage
Diabolic Tutor
Increasing Ambition
Diabolic Revelation
Bribery
Tezzeret the Seeker

Copy/Bounce/Steal/Counter/Protect: (15)

Phyrexian Metamorph
Copy Artifact
Sculpting Steel
Chain of Vapor
Hurkyl's Recall
Rebuild
Cyclonic Rift
Tidespout Tyrant
Gilded Drake
Mana Drain
Counterspell
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Force of Will
Pact of Negation
Spellskite

Extra Turns (1)

Temporal Mastery

Graveyard Recursion (2)

Snapcaster Mage
Yawgmoth's Will

Combo: (4)

Power Artifact
Rings of Brighthearth
Dream Halls
Enter the Infinite

Mana Filtering: (2)

Candelabra of Tawnos
Staff of Domination

Strategic Breakdown:

Plan A: Basalt Monolith + Power Artifact/Rings of Brighthearth or Grim Monolith + Power Artifact

Make infinite colorless mana with either combo. Cast Oona, Queen of the Fae and deck your opponents. This is very colored mana intensive, as you'll need six colored mana to deck three opponents at once. Enter Mycosynth Lattice and Candelabra of Tawnos. Each of these cards excel at turning colorless mana into colored mana and will likely allow you to deck the entire table.

Another way to win if you don't have the above mana converters is to Stroke of Genius yourself, tutor with Diabolic Revelation or draw with Rings of Brighthearth and Sensei's Divining Top until you have three cards left in your deck (in case something goes wrong, you can always draw the last three any number of ways). This requires zero to two colored mana, at which point you'll have one of your mana converters to deck everyone plus all the countermagic you'll ever need. This is also a great strategy if someone Pithing Needled/Phyrexian Revokered Oona, Queen of the Fae. Simply bounce the offending permanent with Chain of Vapor, Hurkyl's Recall, Cyclonic Rift, Rebuild, or Tidespout Tyrant and win with your general.

Note: Bog Initiate or Initiates of the Ebon Hand are good budget replacements for Candelabra of Tawnos.

Plan B: Dream Halls + Enter the Infinite + any other blue card

Use Dream Halls and another blue card to cast Enter the Infinite. From there you can do pretty much anything you want with multiple counterspell backup. Easiest thing to do at that point is Plan A.

Plan C1: Tidespout Tyrant + some combination of Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mox Opal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Candelabra of Tawnos, Grim Monolith, Dimir Signet, Sensei's Divining Top, Fellwar Stone, and Chrome Mox

Make infinite mana using Tidespout Tyrant to bounce one of the aforementioned cards with the other while floating mana in between. Deck your opponents with Oona, Queen of the Fae. Note that not any two of the above cards will work with each other --- you need to be netting mana each time you use one to bounce the other.

Plan C2: Tidespout Tyrant + Phyrexian Metamorph + some combination of Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mox Opal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Candelabra of Tawnos, Grim Monolith, Dimir Signet, Sensei's Divining Top, Fellwar Stone, and Chrome Mox

This works exactly like the above combo except that since you have two Tidespout Tyrant triggers per cycle, you get to bounce all opposing permanents for the rest of the game as well.

Plan D: Magosi, the Waterveil + Candelabra of Tawnos + Rings of Brighthearth

Put an eon counter on Magosi, the Waterveil. Use Candelabra of Tawnos to untap Magosi, the Waterveil. Activate Magosi, the Waterveil's extra turn ability and copy it with Rings of Brighthearth. You'll take two extra turns and skip one of them, netting you one extra turn. On that extra turn, replay Magosi, the Waterveil. Activate Candelabra of Tawnos for X = 1 targeting Magosi, the Waterveil and copy it with Rings of Brighthearth. Let the first untap resolve and put an eon counter on Magosi, the Waterveil before the second untap resolves. After the second untap resolves, activate Magosi, the Waterveil's extra turn ability and copy it. Repeat until you draw into free countermagic and a combo that can kill the table.

This costs 5U each turn Magosi, the Waterveil starts tapped and 3U if it is untapped. Note that this combo uses up your land drop every time you want to keep taking an extra turn.

How to best implement your plans:

Ad Nauseam

The average converted mana cost in the deck for Ad Nauseam (you won't ever have Ad Nauseam in the deck when you cast it) is 166/98 = 1.69. This means you'll get about 15-25 cards with Ad Nauseam.

[Kuma]

- Argivian Restoration
- Glen Elendra Archmage
- 2 Swamp

+ Pithing Needle
+ Phyrexian Revoker
+ 2 Island

It felt good to have Argivian Restoration around, but it wasn't very useful in practice. Glen Elendra Archmage was too slow to be much good, and it wasn't very useful against decks like Arcum Dagsson and Sharuum the Hegemon. I also adjusted the mana base to better reflect the deck's need for colored mana.

Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker are much better at stopping the things I need to stop like Auriok Salvagers, Helm of Obedience, Arcum Dagsson, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Hermit Druid, and all the other combos that require activated abilities to work.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Oona is my favorite EDH general and I've been playing and modifying the deck for a long time. I was going to write a primer but was too lazy, so I'll post my list for your perusal. This is the only EDH deck that has ever provoked a table scoop on turn 2 afaik :). The list is a little outdated as I've been taking a break from mtg lately, but here you go:


Creatures (8)
Etherium Sculptor
Dark Confidant
Dimir Infiltrator
Drift of Phantasms
Trinket Mage
Phyrexian Metamorph
Magus of the Future
Tidespout Tyrant

Enchantments (6)
Telepathy
Mystic Remora
Power Artifact
Phyrexian Arena
Necropotence
Future Sight

Planeswalkers (2)
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Tezzeret the Seeker

Artifacts (22)
Lotus Bloom
Mox Opal
Lotus Petal
Mox Diamond
Chrome Mox
Mana Crypt
Lion's Eye Diamond
Sol Ring
Sensei's Divining Top
Voltaic Key
Candelabra of Tawnos
Mana Vault
Grim Monolith
Helm of Awakening
Dimir Signet
Basalt Monolith
Rings of Brighthearth
Sculpting Steel
Worn Powerstone
Thran Dynamo
Gilded Lotus
Memory Jar

Instants/Sorceries (28)
Pact of Negation
Ponder
Preordain
Brainstorm
Mystical Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Dark Ritual
Flusterstorm
Demonic Tutor
Merchant Scroll
Counterspell
Muddle the Mixture
Cabal Ritual
Twincast
Fabricate
Intuition
Yawgmoth's Will
Perplex
Frantic Search
Wipe Away
Blue Sun's Zenith
Rebuild
Ad Nauseam
Force of Will
Misdirection
Time Spiral
Recurring Insight
All is Dust

Lands (33)
Underground Sea
Watery Grave
Drowned Catacomb
Sunken Ruins
Tolaria West
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Salt Marsh (White-bordered is necessary for trolling here)
Darkslick Shores
Polluted Delta
Misty Rainforest
Scalding Tarn
Flooded Strand
Verdant Catacombs
Bloodstained Mire
Marsh Flats
Strip Mine
Command Tower
River of Tears
Academy Ruins
Creeping Tar Pit
11 Island
2 Swamp

Recent stuff that might be good includes Snapcaster Mage, Consecrated Sphinx, and the new demon lord who draws a bunch of cards (that guy is nuts and probably an auto-include). I don't play Mana Drain, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, or Timetwister because I don't own them and don't really buy mtg stuff anymore.

[Kuma]

It looks like you took the deck in a different direction, Admiral_Arzar. Looks like you're more about drawing your deck with Future Sight/Sensei's Divining Top combos and Ad Nauseum while powering them out with fast mana. I'll have to proxy up your list and give it a shot.

Yeah, I've been testing Griselbroken plus a reanimator package and it's been great. Get him out quick and draw like a million cards on turn three or four.

I'm testing...

- Acquire
- Candelabra of Tawnos
- Diabolic Tutor
- Voltaic Key
- Blue Sun's Zenith

+ Entomb
+ Reanimate
+ Animate Dead
+ Exhume
+ Griselbrand

...and it's been awesome in goldfishing. We'll see how it does in some real games tonight!

[Admiral_Arzar]

It looks like you took the deck in a different direction, Admiral_Arzar. Looks like you're more about drawing your deck with Future Sight/Sensei's Divining Top combos and Ad Nauseum while powering them out with fast mana. I'll have to proxy up your list and give it a shot.

Yeah, I've been testing Griselbroken plus a reanimator package and it's been great. Get him out quick and draw like a million cards on turn three or four.

I'm testing...

- Acquire
- Candelabra of Tawnos
- Diabolic Tutor
- Voltaic Key
- Blue Sun's Zenith

+ Entomb
+ Reanimate
+ Animate Dead
+ Exhume
+ Griselbrand

...and it's been awesome in goldfishing. We'll see how it does in some real games tonight!

Yeah, after a ton of testing I ended up cutting the combos that only eliminate one player at a time, and certain inconsistent engines (Mind's Desire, Mind Over Matter) to improve consistency. The deck would be more consistent if I had Seal, Grim, etc. but it generally performed exceedingly well - winning the majority of games even when up against Sharuum, Zur, Arcum, Niz-Mizzet, etc. in a multiplayer setting. The Reanimator idea is interesting but I'm honestly not even sure you need it - this deck can cast him by turn 3 or 4 relatively easily. Is Show and Tell legal in EDH? If it is, it might be a good tutorable silver bullet to drop him or Tyrant into play at an inordinately early time. It also serves as a way to cheat the restrictive mana costs on things like Future Sight and Necropotence. As an aside, I highly recommend the Future combo because every piece is good on its own and drawing your whole deck (even with no mana floating) will immediately win you the game the majority of the time.

EDIT: Oh snap I completely forgot about Praetor's Grasp, which was in my final list. I don't remember what was cut from the above list to include it though, but the card is pretty nuts when there are other combo decks in your meta (Oh look, a Necropotence!).

[Kuma]

Griselbrand is insane in this deck, which has necessitated many changes to take full advantage of him. There's also a good bit of housecleaning in here.

- Acquire
- Diabolic Tutor
- Voltaic Key
- Blue Sun's Zenith
- Mycosynth Lattice
- Treachery
- Island
- Swamp
- Skull of Ramos
- Eye of Ramos
- Mindslaver
- Recurring Insight
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Time Spiral
- Snapcaster Mage
- Coalition Relic
- Helm of Obedience
- Leyline of the Void
- Merchant Scroll
- Dizzy Spell

+ Entomb
+ Reanimate
+ Exhume
+ Animate Dead
+ Dance of the Dead
+ Necromancy
+ Griselbrand
+ Ad Nauseum
+ Praetor's Grasp
+ Transmute Artifact
+ Thran Dynamo
+ Worn Powerstone
+ Darkwater Catacombs
+ Forbidden Orchard
+ Lotus Bloom
+ Fellwar Stone
+ Spellskite
+ Dark Ritual
+ Sculpting Steel
+ Cabal Ritual

[Aggro_zombies]

Interesting. I've been working with this:

1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Coalition Relic
1 Eye of Ramos
1 Skull of Ramos
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Mana Vault
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal

1 Voltaic Key
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Recurring Insight
1 Time Spiral
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Trinket Mage
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Mana Drain
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Power Artifact
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Dark Confidant
1 Griselbrand
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Mind's Desire
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Doomsday
1 Meditate
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Future Sight
1 Magus of the Future
1 High Tide
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Snap
1 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Frantic Search
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Turnabout
1 Mana Severance
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Windfall

1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Ancient Tomb
13 Snow-Covered Island
5 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers

General: Oona, Queen of the Fae

I haven't had much trouble hardcasting Griselly Bear in testing so far, but it might be hard vs. mana denial.

[Kuma]

Wow, that's a very similar list. I really like the idea of Doomsday. What Doomsday piles do you usually make?

Casting Griselbrand isn't too bad, but I've found it's much easier and faster to reanimate him.

[Aggro_zombies]

Wow, that's a very similar list. I really like the idea of Doomsday. What Doomsday piles do you usually make?

Casting Griselbrand isn't too bad, but I've found it's much easier and faster to reanimate him.
Doomsday is usually a mid-combo tutor if I find myself in a position where I can't Tendrils for enough and/or someone has shroud; at that point, I use it to set up infinite mana and get Oona into play. The pile is usually something along the lines of:

--top--
Meditate
Power Artifact
Basalt Monolith / Grim Monolith
Something
Something Else
--bottom--

When I ran one of the Eldrazi in the deck, it was also possible to set up Top-Helm-Future Sight and then generate infinite storm with Mind Over Matter, but (a) that was really finnicky and (b) the Eldrazi wasn't good otherwise (I think it was Ulamog).

If I had a Grim Tutor, I would probably change Doomsday to that. Doomsday is rarely relevant.

[Kuma]

You're killing people with Tendrils of Agony?

That seems like it would be difficult without an infinite storm combo. I've never attempted that in EDH, although I was going to work on a deck with Griselbrand as a general.

Wouldn't it be easier to assemble infinite mana and kill with Oona, Queen of the Fae?

[Aggro_zombies]

You're killing people with Tendrils of Agony?

That seems like it would be difficult without an infinite storm combo. I've never attempted that in EDH, although I was going to work on a deck with Griselbrand as a general.

Wouldn't it be easier to assemble infinite mana and kill with Oona, Queen of the Fae?
Sometimes I 1v1 with the deck, and then Tendrils is easy. Actually, Tendrils to kill one or two people isn't that hard; it's getting to 60 storm that proves a little more challenging. I've considered switching to Exsanguinate for that reason, but Tendrils is both funnier and requires a more interesting build. The Exsanguinate deck is just tutors and control, which is functional but boring for everyone involved.

Also, you can make infinite storm with Tidespout Tyrant + two free/one-mana mana artifacts.

EDIT: Top + Helm/Sculptor + Future Sight/Magus of the Future = storm count equal to the number of cards in your library, which is usually enough.

[Kuma]

Also, you can make infinite storm with Tidespout Tyrant + two free/one-mana mana artifacts.

You can also make infinite colored mana pretty easy this way, at which point you can cast your general and deck all your opponents.


EDIT: Top + Helm/Sculptor + Future Sight/Magus of the Future = storm count equal to the number of cards in your library, which is usually enough.

Here, you can draw your deck, which means you can set up infinite mana with multiple free counterspell backup and deck everyone with Oona, Queen of the Fae.

There are certain advantages to Tendrils of Agony, but it seems easier and much more efficient to just deck people in those situations. Tendrils of Agony seems extraneous in this shell.

[Aggro_zombies]

That's...true, but like I said, the "correct" version for Oona is just a tutors-and-control build that sets up infinite mana and decks everyone. That build is functional, but it's boring for me to play and it's boring for other people to play against. At least with storm combo, I have more fun the turn I go off, and the game is almost always just as over.

EDIT: Also, small Tendrils in the early turns are useful against decks with disruption. If you can Tendrils for ~20 or so, and perhaps kill someone along the way, it buys you a lot of time.

[Kuma]

That's...true, but like I said, the "correct" version for Oona is just a tutors-and-control build that sets up infinite mana and decks everyone. That build is functional, but it's boring for me to play and it's boring for other people to play against. At least with storm combo, I have more fun the turn I go off, and the game is almost always just as over.

Oh, I see. I didn't know you were playing with Tendrils of Agony for the challenge/fun. That's cool. I thought you were going for ruthless efficiency, hence my confusion.

[Aggro_zombies]

Oh, I see. I didn't know you were playing with Tendrils of Agony for the challenge/fun. That's cool. I thought you were going for ruthless efficiency, hence my confusion.
Competitive EDH is a crapshoot because the games are boring and same-y. I have a competitive deck on hand in case people want to go that route, but after the fifth "All artifact and land destruction plus discard" vs. "Storm Combo deck" vs. "Different Combo deck" vs. "Third Combo deck" pod, the format really loses its luster as a competitive thing.

If I wanted to play competitive Magic, I at least want it to be a sanctioned format. Playing a casual format as cutthroat-ly as I possibly can is just a waste of time.

[Kuma]

I don't know if my post came across as mocking, but I was being sincere. Different people want different things out of EDH. I love having a format where netdecking is difficult/impossible/stupid that I can compete with my friends in where we ruthlessly beat the crap out of each other.

As long as you're happy and your playgroup's happy, everyone wins. :smile:

[Aggro_zombies]

I don't know if my post came across as mocking, but I was being sincere. Different people want different things out of EDH. I love having a format where netdecking is difficult/impossible/stupid that I can compete with my friends in where we ruthlessly beat the crap out of each other.

As long as you're happy and your playgroup's happy, everyone wins. :smile:
Fair enough, I wasn't sure based on the wording.

[LegacyStudent]

Is Worn Powerstone better than Coalition Relic in your current list? The ability to play Relic into a tutor the same turn has occasionally been relevant for me. Then again I've never really had the chance to play against similarly powered decks, so I've never needed the mana from the artifact outside of my main phase.

Have you considered Brainspoil to transmute for either Ad Nauseam or Bribery? Either of those wins you the game if they resolve (assuming that at least one of your opponents has a Griselbrand), right?

How has Scroll Rack been working for you? I eventually cut it from my list due to the density of tutors and artifacts I ran. I never wanted to cast it in the early turns because I would vomit all my artifacts onto the board, then tutor up Ad Nauseam for the win. When it was cast it was usually one of the last cards in my hand and its ability was not useful.

I like Goryo's Vengeance over some of your two mana reanimation spells. Like Necromancy, it can make Grisel a one-shot effect, but you can do it at instant speed, which lets you draw your cards right before your turn starts in addition to occasionally protecting Grizzy from graveyard hate.

[Kuma]

Is Worn Powerstone better than Coalition Relic in your current list? The ability to play Relic into a tutor the same turn has occasionally been relevant for me. Then again I've never really had the chance to play against similarly powered decks, so I've never needed the mana from the artifact outside of my main phase.

It was a tough call, but I think Worn Powerstone is better. This is the most color-hungry deck I've ever played, but it still has substantial colorless mana costs. If you can use Worn Powerstone to pay colorless costs instead of your lands, it might as well be making colored mana. The other reason is that Worn Powerstone always taps for two mana, while Coalition Relic only sometimes makes you two mana.


Have you considered Brainspoil to transmute for either Ad Nauseam or Bribery? Either of those wins you the game if they resolve (assuming that at least one of your opponents has a Griselbrand), right?

Yeah, pretty much.

I've soured a little on Transmute, because it costs a lot of mana and lets your opponents see what you're up to, but with Ad Nauseam and Griselbrand, it might be worth another look.


How has Scroll Rack been working for you? I eventually cut it from my list due to the density of tutors and artifacts I ran. I never wanted to cast it in the early turns because I would vomit all my artifacts onto the board, then tutor up Ad Nauseam for the win. When it was cast it was usually one of the last cards in my hand and its ability was not useful.

I haven't been liking it, although Scroll Rack is absolutely insane after Ad Nauseam or Griselbrand. It's very difficult to use properly, and with all the tutors it's a little redundant. It's on the chopping block for sure.


I like Goryo's Vengeance over some of your two mana reanimation spells. Like Necromancy, it can make Grisel a one-shot effect, but you can do it at instant speed, which lets you draw your cards right before your turn starts in addition to occasionally protecting Grizzy from graveyard hate.

The reason I'm running Necromancy is so I could instant-speed take one of my opponents' Griselbrands in response to their own attempt to reanimate it. I can't do that with Goryo's Vengeance. My buddy sent me that card the other day, so I've been thinking about it.

[Amon Amarth]

I haven't been liking it, although Scroll Rack is absolutely insane after Ad Nauseam or Griselbrand. It's very difficult to use properly, and with all the tutors it's a little redundant. It's on the chopping block for sure.

FWIW I've never been happy with Scroll Rack in this format, in any deck.

[Offler]

I prefer scroll rack over SDT.

Combo situation: Mind over Matter + Stroke of Genius.
20cards on hand, but no Blue Suns Zenith? I have scroll rack. Discard a card, drop it, change your hand and look again.

For any combo deck, or deck which has to collect specific cards on hand its excellent. Dont forget to mention you can hide your entire hand on top of your library in case of discard.

In normal situation you just need to keep at least 4 cards on hand.

[Aggro_zombies]

I prefer scroll rack over SDT.

Combo situation: Mind over Matter + Stroke of Genius.
20cards on hand, but no Blue Suns Zenith? I have scroll rack. Discard a card, drop it, change your hand and look again.
I feel like this is a win-more justification for it, though. I've been in plenty of situations wherein I have 6-7 cards in hand, activate Rack for 2-3 looking for gas, draw blanks, and get to sit there with the sinking feeling of, "I'm drawing nothing for my next 2-3 turns". Top isn't much better in this regard, but it has fewer conditions on its use prior to comboing off.

Protecting your hand from discard is a YMMV sort of thing. I've hidden my hand only to draw into something I was looking for in response to a Thoughtseize, and neither Top nor Rack are particularly good against Mind Twists.

[Davran]

I feel like this is a win-more justification for it, though. I've been in plenty of situations wherein I have 6-7 cards in hand, activate Rack for 2-3 looking for gas, draw blanks, and get to sit there with the sinking feeling of, "I'm drawing nothing for my next 2-3 turns". Top isn't much better in this regard, but it has fewer conditions on its use prior to comboing off.

I've been in the same situation with both Top and Scroll Rack more times than I care to count. I've been testing out Soothsaying in a deck recently, and so far it's been pretty good. It's expensive for a shuffle effect, but sometimes you really want to get rid of the chaff and you can't find a fetch.

[LegacyStudent]

The reason I'm running Necromancy is so I could instant-speed take one of my opponents' Griselbrands in response to their own attempt to reanimate it. I can't do that with Goryo's Vengeance. My buddy sent me that card the other day, so I've been thinking about it.
Right, I meant replace either Exhume, Animate Dead, or Dance of the Dead with Vengeance. Unless for some reason you intend to pass the turn after reanimating Grisel, you get an extra draw 7 via haste and you also have another option for instant-speed reanimation if you need it for some reason.


I haven't been liking it, although Scroll Rack is absolutely insane after Ad Nauseam or Griselbrand. It's very difficult to use properly, and with all the tutors it's a little redundant. It's on the chopping block for sure.
You can always try Mystical Teachings. Right now I'm testing Insidious Dreams stacks (beginning with Windfall if I can combo, or just Timetwister if I need a reset) but so far it has been underwhelming.

[Kuma]

Right, I meant replace either Exhume, Animate Dead, or Dance of the Dead with Vengeance. Unless for some reason you intend to pass the turn after reanimating Grisel, you get an extra draw 7 via haste and you also have another option for instant-speed reanimation if you need it for some reason.

I usually pass the turn after reanimating Griselbrand and draw my cards on my next opponent's upkeep so I don't have to discard down to seven. If I fear Wipe Away, I'll draw seven on my turn without passing priority so I can at least get something out of my Griselbrand and to put him back in my graveyard for future reanimation. Unless it's late in the game, it's hard to both reanimate Griselbrand and win on the same turn no matter how many cards I draw.


You can always try Mystical Teachings. Right now I'm testing Insidious Dreams stacks (beginning with Windfall if I can combo, or just Timetwister if I need a reset) but so far it has been underwhelming.

Interesting ideas. I'll have to give them a shot.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I usually pass the turn after reanimating Griselbrand and draw my cards on my next opponent's upkeep so I don't have to discard down to seven. If I fear Wipe Away, I'll draw seven on my turn without passing priority so I can at least get something out of my Griselbrand and to put him back in my graveyard for future reanimation. Unless it's late in the game, it's hard to both reanimate Griselbrand and win on the same turn no matter how many cards I draw.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you should be winning immediately upon Griselbrand entering play. There's enough Moxen and such in this deck even if you have no mana floating. In my experience with this deck, if I was going to draw 30+ cards I would usually hit enough mana sources to not have any issues even if I was completely tapped out, with the occasional exception.

[Kuma]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you should be winning immediately upon Griselbrand entering play. There's enough Moxen and such in this deck even if you have no mana floating. In my experience with this deck, if I was going to draw 30+ cards I would usually hit enough mana sources to not have any issues even if I was completely tapped out, with the occasional exception.

You may be right. Your list does run more fast mana than mine, but I could probably win a good portion of my games the turn Griselbrand comes out. I'll have to give it a try.

[Kuma]

- Academy Ruins
- Reliquary Tower

+ Island
+ Swamp

Every time I drew one of the colorless lands I wished it made colored mana. Their effects weren't worth hurting the mana base.

[Kuma]

- Griselbrand
- Animate Dead
- Dance of the Dead
- Reanimate
- Necromancy
- Exhume
- Entomb

+ Beseech the Queen
+ Tormod's Crypt
+ Nihil Spellbomb
+ Grafdigger's Cage
+ Wipe Away
+ Chain of Vapor
+ Counterspell

With Griselbrand being Griselbanned, the deck needed an overhaul. The deck needed to be more disruptive, as it wasn't powering through 2-3 good players often enough for my liking. To this end, I added graveyard hate, bounce, and countermagic to disrupt my opponents and buy me time to win.

[Admiral_Arzar]

- Griselbrand
- Animate Dead
- Dance of the Dead
- Reanimate
- Necromancy
- Exhume
- Entomb

+ Beseech the Queen
+ Tormod's Crypt
+ Nihil Spellbomb
+ Grafdigger's Cage
+ Wipe Away
+ Chain of Vapor
+ Counterspell

With Griselbrand being Griselbanned, the deck needed an overhaul. The deck needed to be more disruptive, as it wasn't powering through 2-3 good players often enough for my liking. To this end, I added graveyard hate, bounce, and countermagic to disrupt my opponents and buy me time to win.

I haven't played this deck in a long time, but I think you're going overboard with the disruption. One piece of Trinket-Mage-fetchable hate (Spellbomb because it cantrips) should be enough. I would also avoid Beseech the Queen as triple black is really hard for this deck to hit quickly, and the deck also has trouble making a lot of land drops to make Beseech actually good (and you win before you can actually tutor for anything expensive anyways). Chain of Vapor, Wipe Away, and Counterspell are definitely good enough to make the cut, although I never played CoV. I would honestly just play more draw and fast mana in place of the other graveyard hate.

[Kuma]

I haven't played this deck in a long time, but I think you're going overboard with the disruption. One piece of Trinket-Mage-fetchable hate (Spellbomb because it cantrips) should be enough.

Yeah, if I were running pods or playing randoms with this, I wouldn't need all that graveyard hate. However, in my playgroup I have to deal with super fast reanimator/combo Sharuum the Hegemon and Hermit Druid combo. I'm not sure if three pieces is enough for my group.


I would also avoid Beseech the Queen as triple black is really hard for this deck to hit quickly, and the deck also has trouble making a lot of land drops to make Beseech actually good (and you win before you can actually tutor for anything expensive anyways).

I haven't had any problems with Beseech the Queen. With the exception of Ad Nauseam, most of the cards I want to tutor for cost 3 or less. The triple black mana hasn't been a problem yet, but I wonder if going back to Diabolic Tutor wouldn't be better.


Chain of Vapor, Wipe Away, and Counterspell are definitely good enough to make the cut, although I never played CoV. I would honestly just play more draw and fast mana in place of the other graveyard hate.

Chain of Vapor is fast mana when you're trying to combo. You float mana from your lands and bounce and replay all your cheap mana rocks. Somtimes you can even hit an opposing permanent at the same time if there's nothing on your side that you can't afford to have bounced.

Specifically, what pieces of draw and fast mana should I be playing?

[Kuma]

M13 changes:

- Scroll Rack

+ Diabolic Revelation

As was discussed earlier, Scroll Rack wasn't very good in this deck. With all the fast mana, Diabolic Revelation should be able to tutor for combo pieces and protection at the same time. It can also allow us to "draw" the whole deck with infinite mana like Stroke of Genius.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Yeah, if I were running pods or playing randoms with this, I wouldn't need all that graveyard hate. However, in my playgroup I have to deal with super fast reanimator/combo Sharuum the Hegemon and Hermit Druid combo. I'm not sure if three pieces is enough for my group.

Specifically, what pieces of draw and fast mana should I be playing?

I played this deck pretty much exclusively against a group of friends who played fully-powered Sharuum, Zur, Arcum, and Azami, so it wasn't exactly pods and randoms. I never felt the need for more than one piece of grave hate and maybe a Pithing Needle, as this deck is faster and often more resilient than all of those decks. Anyways.

In terms of fast mana, I would recommend Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Lion's Eye Diamond on top of what you're already playing. In terms of draw, cantrips if you don't already play them. Also, Recurring Insight and Time Spiral are both stupid bombs and win a ton of games. They make Ad Nauseam a little less powerful due to the higher CMC, but having three ridiculous draw spells is better than just one.

Another couple of tweaks: I find Blue Sun's Zenith to be better than Stroke of Genius because you can reuse it (this actually comes up if somebody answers Oona, you have infinite mana, and you need some way to deck everybody). Also, I would recommend making room for Rebuild - it's a superb protection spell that can also serve as a combo piece much like Chain of Vapor (and it cycles).

[Kuma]

I played this deck pretty much exclusively against a group of friends who played fully-powered Sharuum, Zur, Arcum, and Azami, so it wasn't exactly pods and randoms. I never felt the need for more than one piece of grave hate and maybe a Pithing Needle, as this deck is faster and often more resilient than all of those decks. Anyways.

Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate anything about the playskill of your group. I'm never sure if people are making suggestions for how to optimize a list for running pods or for playing against other, equally powered decks. Oona, Queen of the Fae is certainly the fastest out of those decks, but sometimes that's a bug, not a feature. You get hated out of the game and the second or third fastest player ends up winning.

Nihil Spellbomb seems fine because it cantrips. I could probably stand to lose Tormod's Crypt and/or Grafdigger's Cage.

Every deck I play against wins almost exclusively with activated abilities, I think I need Phyrexian Revoker as well as Pithing Needle.


In terms of fast mana, I would recommend Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Lion's Eye Diamond on top of what you're already playing. In terms of draw, cantrips if you don't already play them. Also, Recurring Insight and Time Spiral are both stupid bombs and win a ton of games. They make Ad Nauseam a little less powerful due to the higher CMC, but having three ridiculous draw spells is better than just one.

I'm going to test Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Lion's Eye Diamond. I'm not a fan of these because of the card disadvantage, but I guess Ad Nauseam, etc. makes up for it.

Recurring Insight and Time Spiral were both in the deck once. Maybe they're worth another shot over the extra grave hate.

I don't like cantrips in EDH, especially ones other than Brainstorm. With Ponder, it's too difficult in a highlander format to identify if the top three cards in your deck are better than a random three. Also, there are tons of playable, legal tutors that just find you what you need instead of durdling with the top of your deck.


Another couple of tweaks: I find Blue Sun's Zenith to be better than Stroke of Genius because you can reuse it (this actually comes up if somebody answers Oona, you have infinite mana, and you need some way to deck everybody). Also, I would recommend making room for Rebuild - it's a superb protection spell that can also serve as a combo piece much like Chain of Vapor (and it cycles).

Targeting myself with the Stroke of Genius and drawing my deck does the same thing for a smaller colored mana investment. Once I have my deck in my hand, I can re-cast Oona, Queen of the Fae if she was tucked. If there's a permanent or permanents preventing me from using her, I can cast Gemstone Array and bounce every permanent with Capsize with multiple free counterspells as backup. If Oona, Queen of the Fae somehow ended up in my graveyard, I can get her back with Yawgmoth's Will. Also, with Diabolic Revelation, Blue Sun's Zenith becomes even more redundant.

I can draw my deck with infinite colorless mana for only :u: with Stroke of Genius. With Blue Sun's Zenith, I need :u::u::u:, and that's often too much colored mana to draw my deck the same turn I go infinite.

I've been meaning to fit Rebuild in here for the same reason I run Chain of Vapor. Hurkyl's Recall should probably be in here too for the same reason. Might be worth running Mycosynth Lattice again. Hurkyl's Recall + Mycosynth Lattice takes someone out of the game.

[Kuma]

+ Lotus Petal
+ Chrome Mox
+ Mox Diamond
+ Lion's Eye Diamond
+ Mycosynth Lattice
+ Rebuild
+ Hurkyl's Recall
+ Time Spiral
+ Recurring Insight

- Grafdigger's Cage
- Beseech the Queen
- Tormod's Crypt
- Wipe Away
- Mystic Remora
- Lim-Dul's Vault
- Tidespout Tyrant
- Yawgmoth's Will
- Thran Dynamo

I've decided to try out a build with more fast mana. So far I've been happy with most of the fast mana cards in this post, but a few might not make the cut. Mycosynth Lattice makes it much easier to win with infinite colorless mana and turns Hurkyl's Recall into "Destroy target player." Rebuild and Hurkyl's Recall help generate mana on a combo turn while doubling as answers to problem artifacts like Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker. Time Spiral and Recurring Insight give the deck added gas.

Beseech the Queen wasn't worth it. In this deck, Diabolic Tutor is a better card, and I wasn't even running it. Now that the plan is "be faster than the graveyard decks," I don't need the extra pieces of graveyard hate. Most of Wipe Away's usefulness is subsumed by Hurkyl's Recall and Rebuild. I still have Capsize if I need to bounce a non-artifact permanent. Mystic Remora and Tidespout Tyrant were better in theory than in practice. I almost never used Tidespout Tyrant, and his CMC of eight was problematic with Ad Nauseam. Mystic Remora just made my opponents slow down, and I couldn't capitalize since I had to spend all my mana on Cumulative Upkeep. Yawgmoth's Will hadn't been used in months, so it gets the axe. Thran Dynamo was the worst of the mana rocks and losing its CMC of four will help Ad Nauseam. Lim-Dul's Vault wasn't worth paying all that life for with Ad Nauseam being plan A.

[Kuma]

- Nihil Spellbomb
- Fellwar Stone

+ Llawan, Cephalid Empress
+ Yawgmoth's Will

Llawan, Cephalid Empress is a backbreaking card against most of the top-tier generals. I decided I need Yawgmoth's Will, because I was running zero cards that get things out of my graveyard, and as much as I hate to admit it, I need to be able to play through having Basalt Monolith and Power Artifact in my graveyard.

[jimirynk]

Why is there 2 different Oona threads?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Why is there 2 different Oona threads?

I don't see another one on the first two pages, unless you're referring to Bryant's combo thread, which mostly uses Zur nowadays.

Kuma, I'm interested in how your results went after cutting Tidespout Tyrant, Remora, etc. I can see cutting Tyrant (although I have won a number of games with that thing, your reasoning for getting rid of it is perfectly legitimate) but Remora has been such a bomb for me that I could never cut it. As soon as you see a multi-player counterwar it becomes the best thing ever.

[jimirynk]

Then I guess I'll post my list here,

1 [TE] Reflecting Pool
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [M10] Swamp (4)
9 [NPH] Island (2)
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [10E] Underground River
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [CMD] Command Tower
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [AN] City of Brass
1 [OD] Darkwater Catacombs
1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
1 [FUT] River of Tears
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
1 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [FUT] Magus of the Future
1 [ALA] Etherium Sculptor
1 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [UL] Grim Monolith
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
1 [FD] Doubling Cube
1 [TE] Lotus Petal
1 [FUT] Coalition Relic
1 [IA] Mystic Remora
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [UL] Frantic Search
1 [MR] Sculpting Steel
1 [5E] Counterspell
1 [IA] Brainstorm
1 [A] Timetwister
1 [6E] Vampiric Tutor
1 [US] Voltaic Key
1 [AVR] Temporal Mastery
1 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
1 [SOM] Mox Opal
1 [10E] Mind Stone
1 [A] Copy Artifact
1 [M11] Preordain
1 [MI] Mystical Tutor
1 [ARC] Dimir Signet
1 [ZEN] Rite of Replication
1 [PLC] Damnation
1 [DDF] Everflowing Chalice
1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
1 [US] Yawgmoth's Will
1 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
1 [UD] Treachery
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [U] Demonic Tutor
1 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FUT] Cloud Key
1 [ALA] Tezzeret the Seeker
1 [SH] Mox Diamond
1 [BD] Impulse
1 [US] Time Spiral
1 [FD] Night's Whisper
1 [LRW] Rings of Brighthearth
1 [MM] Misdirection
1 [DM] Necropotence
1 [ON] Future Sight
1 [MR] Fabricate
1 [8E] Bribery
1 [ROE] Recurring Insight
1 [A] Basalt Monolith
1 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [AQ] Transmute Artifact
1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
1 [CMD] Spell Crumple
1 [UL] Memory Jar
1 [JGC] Mana Crypt
1 [ARC] Thran Dynamo
1 [B] Sol Ring
1 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall
1 [AQ] Power Artifact
1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
1 [WWK] Dispel
1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 [MR] Gilded Lotus
1 [CST] Dark Ritual
1 [LRW] Ponder
1 [4E] Mana Vault
1 [LG] Mana Drain
1 [CHK] Hinder
SB: 1 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae

[Kuma]

Kuma, I'm interested in how your results went after cutting Tidespout Tyrant, Remora, etc. I can see cutting Tyrant (although I have won a number of games with that thing, your reasoning for getting rid of it is perfectly legitimate) but Remora has been such a bomb for me that I could never cut it. As soon as you see a multi-player counterwar it becomes the best thing ever.

I think I won maybe two games this year with Tidespout Tyrant, which isn't much considering I play about 4-5 games per week.

I have a love/hate relationship with Mystic Remora. What I've found is that if you aren't going first or second and casting Mystic Remora on your first turn, you end up spending more mana than it's worth. I've had Mystic Remora be a draw four for U and a draw one for 8U. I'd say on average it has been a draw two for 5U. It hasn't worked out for me often enough to justify its inclusion. It hasn't helped that my playgroup has moved towards more creature based decks like Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Maelstrom Wanderer.

@jimirynk

From the look of it, I'd guess your primary win condition is Future Sight combo. I've long debated whether I should make my Oona, Queen of the Fae list into Future Sight combo since the pieces are all useful on their own. How has Future Sight combo been working for you? Do you win more games with it or with Basalt Monolith/Power Artifact?

[jimirynk]

From the look of it, I'd guess your primary win condition is Future Sight combo. I've long debated whether I should make my Oona, Queen of the Fae list into Future Sight combo since the pieces are all useful on their own. How has Future Sight combo been working for you? Do you win more games with it or with Basalt Monolith/Power Artifact?

I win every single game with Oona and infi mana, future sight is actually one of the harder combos in the deck to set up bc its 3 cards. Rings/basalt or power art/manolith happens a lot more often doubling cube has to be one of the best cards in the deck you just make SO much mana with it and rings or it and key plus key/rings/cube is infinite mana. Most games you just ramp dump you hand play a draw spell assemble the first combo that you draw play oona win.

[Kuma]

Return to Ravnica changes:

- Drift of Phantasms

+ Cyclonic Rift

I'm trying to move away from running transmute cards as they're mana intensive and let your opponent know exactly what you're up to.

Updated first post.

[Jivanmukta]

Would running Magosi, the Waterveil be too ineffectual of a combo? It goes infinite with Candelabra and Rings for what seems to be minimal investment of deck space.

[Kuma]

Would running Magosi, the Waterveil be too ineffectual of a combo? It goes infinite with Candelabra and Rings for what seems to be minimal investment of deck space.

That's a very interesting idea. I'll see about working it in. Seems like it'll be pretty good given that it's only taking up half of a deck slot.

[Jivanmukta]

That's a very interesting idea. I'll see about working it in. Seems like it'll be pretty good given that it's only taking up half of a deck slot.

I've been playing Oona for a while now and have been in discussion with several other competitive Oona players on mtgSalv. My list runs a LOT of small draw cantrips and spells (probably far too many honestly) so it's always nice to see other decks.

I had never thought of running Mycosynth Lattice before I saw this list.

I'm debating removing the Helm/Leyline combo from my deck as it only kills 1 person at a time. I noticed you don't run it either anymore, do you ever miss it or has it's removal been for the best?

[Kuma]

I've been playing Oona for a while now and have been in discussion with several other competitive Oona players on mtgSalv. My list runs a LOT of small draw cantrips and spells (probably far too many honestly) so it's always nice to see other decks.

I had never thought of running Mycosynth Lattice before I saw this list.

I'm debating removing the Helm/Leyline combo from my deck as it only kills 1 person at a time. I noticed you don't run it either anymore, do you ever miss it or has it's removal been for the best?

Mycosynth Lattice is awesome because it lets you use your infinite colorless mana as colored mana. It's also great with Hurkyl's Recall and to a lesser extent Rebuild.

I haven't missed Helm of Obedience/Leyline of the Void combo very often. Once in a long time I'll end up with too many combo pieces in the graveyard and wish I still ran it, but in general it's an inefficient way to kill people.

[Jivanmukta]

Have you ever tried Tainted Pact with a nearly singleton mana base? I've found it to be quite possibly the strongest tutor. The mana base isn't much harder to deal with, just run a snow-covered island/swamp in place of a regular. Hell things like Tolaria and Urborg (the legendary ones) could be used in place of another pair of basics. Even if you ended up with 2 land with the same name it shouldn't ever make a difference with fetches. The ONLY drawback I can consider is if you are facing lots of non-basic hosers, but Tainted Pact is just so strong it might be worth it even there.

[Kuma]

Have you ever tried Tainted Pact with a nearly singleton mana base? I've found it to be quite possibly the strongest tutor. The mana base isn't much harder to deal with, just run a snow-covered island/swamp in place of a regular. Hell things like Tolaria and Urborg (the legendary ones) could be used in place of another pair of basics. Even if you ended up with 2 land with the same name it shouldn't ever make a difference with fetches. The ONLY drawback I can consider is if you are facing lots of non-basic hosers, but Tainted Pact is just so strong it might be worth it even there.

I've thought about it in the past, but there were too many anti-non-basic land cards in my group. I don't have that problem anymore, but Tainted Pact can leave you in a bad position if the card you tutored for gets countered/answered, as roughly half your deck will be exiled. I suppose it's better if you go until you hit a better tutor.

I just realized that it also gets around Aven Mindcensor and Stranglehold. I'm definitely going to have to try this.

[Jivanmukta]

I've thought about it in the past, but there were too many anti-non-basic land cards in my group. I don't have that problem anymore, but Tainted Pact can leave you in a bad position if the card you tutored for gets countered/answered, as roughly half your deck will be exiled. I suppose it's better if you go until you hit a better tutor.

I just realized that it also gets around Aven Mindcensor and Stranglehold. I'm definitely going to have to try this.

In my quest for trying to find alternative wins I experimented with Demonic Consultation and Laboratory Maniac so I'm used to the risky tutors. Granted the Maniac/Consult combo was VERY fragile and no longer being run, but after running that Tainted Pact is absolutely flawless in comparison.

I am going to begin testing Tidespout Tyrant. What is your experience with him? I know other people swear by him in the deck but I am VERY wary of depending on a creature.

[Kuma]

I am going to begin testing Tidespout Tyrant. What is your experience with him? I know other people swear by him in the deck but I am VERY wary of depending on a creature.

I found that I almost never wanted to try to win with him, and people would often Bribery him out of my deck. His CMC of eight is pretty bad for Ad Nauseam as well.

[Jivanmukta]

I found that I almost never wanted to try to win with him, and people would often Bribery him out of my deck. His CMC of eight is pretty bad for Ad Nauseam as well.

Do you find the 2 infinite mana combos are enough win conditions? It just feels odd to not have a backup plan.

Curious, how many other blue and/or black decks do you consistently play against? If a bunch have you considered Fellwar Stone. It's potentially another Talisman without the damage.

[Kuma]

Do you find the 2 infinite mana combos are enough win conditions? It just feels odd to not have a backup plan.

I used to run several backup plans, but I didn't find myself winning with them often enough to justify their existence. I either won with the infinite mana plan, or I wasn't going to win. There's still the backup plan of cast Oona, Queen of the Fae and use all the mana this deck can make to churn out 1/1 Faerie Rogues. That works pretty well against creature light decks.


Curious, how many other blue and/or black decks do you consistently play against? If a bunch have you considered Fellwar Stone. It's potentially another Talisman without the damage.

Right now, not very many. I'm the only guy playing black right now, and there isn't another blue player every game. In general, I've found it to be worth the occasional point of damage or two to be able to guarantee myself blue and black mana. This is the most color hungry deck I've ever played with by far.

[Jivanmukta]

Honestly I'm waiting till the Dimir come out in Gatecrash before I make any major changes. If any set "should" have anything for us, it would be that one. There's also potential mox art from either Gatecrash or Dragon's Maze and Oona loves her Moxen.

[Killane]

I've recently built an Oona deck for those times when there are prizes on the line at the LGS and the name of the game is EDH. I honestly love this deck - it feels like playing Vintage Again!

here's a link to my list and discussion:

Oona on MTGS (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=462123)

As you can see, my goal is to kill everyone as quickly as possible, no fuss, no muss.

A few question regarding your list. Please note I have a bit of a brusque style, so don;t take offense - you obviously know what you're doing so I'm asking to enlighten things I don't understand, not being critical.

Why Oboro, Palace in the Clouds? What does it do for you in this list?

You only run 5 counterspells - do you generally find that is enough, especially if you have to Plan B with Bribery? Do you ever play against Clique or other high disruption decks?

Speaking of which, with Emrakul and G-Brand banned, what do you find is generally a heavy enough hitter to make Bribery as a back-up plan good enough?

Can you expand on the role of Spellskite in the deck? I see some obvious uses, but none that would generally lave me feeling it was worth the slot.

No Jace, TMS? If you get into having to play a long controlling game, seems like the best card you can have.

no Thoughtseize, duress, or Mind Twist to hedge against control?

Why run Lattice as well as Array? They are both fairly high CMC for Ad Nauseum, Array is a complete do-nothing outside the engame of winning, and Lattice has only two uses outside of it, what do you gain by running both? Also, there's an analysis of page 2 of my MTGS thread which basically leads to the conclusion that Goblin Cannon is strictly better than Array if you're going to use that slot. Isn't running just one of them better though?

[Kuma]

I've recently built an Oona deck for those times when there are prizes on the line at the LGS and the name of the game is EDH. I honestly love this deck - it feels like playing Vintage Again!

here's a link to my list and discussion:

Oona on MTGS (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=462123)

As you can see, my goal is to kill everyone as quickly as possible, no fuss, no muss.

I checked that out, and you guys have some good discussion going on over there. I might even have to dust off my MTGS account.


A few question regarding your list. Please note I have a bit of a brusque style, so don;t take offense - you obviously know what you're doing so I'm asking to enlighten things I don't understand, not being critical.

No worries, I'm the same way. Hit me with your best shot. :smile:


Why Oboro, Palace in the Clouds? What does it do for you in this list?

It lets me make an additional colored mana when I'm infinite providing I didn't play a land yet that turn. It's extremely corner case, but there's little downside to running it. It can also be picked up if someone blows up all lands.


You only run 5 counterspells - do you generally find that is enough, especially if you have to Plan B with Bribery? Do you ever play against Clique or other high disruption decks?

I should probably be running Hinder and Spell Crumple at least. I haven't had time to work on this list in a while and it needs a major overhaul. That Plan B bit with Bribery in the primer is pretty old. I never win like that.


Speaking of which, with Emrakul and G-Brand banned, what do you find is generally a heavy enough hitter to make Bribery as a back-up plan good enough?

It's not. See above. It can get me something nice like Consecrated Sphinx to help me along though.


Can you expand on the role of Spellskite in the deck? I see some obvious uses, but none that would generally lave me feeling it was worth the slot.

Spellskite is a relic from when I played against Arcum Dagsson every game. You redirect Arcum's ability to Spellskite and search for Pithing Needle to shut off Arcum or a combo piece so you can untap and win. At worst, it's like another Phyrexian Revoker against Arcum. It can also protect your combo pieces if someone tries to destroy them. Since I'm not playing against Arcum anymore, It might not be worth it.


No Jace, TMS? If you get into having to play a long controlling game, seems like the best card you can have.

Nope, he dies too quickly in my group. I don't run enough creatures to protect him, so he's pretty much Brainstorm for :2::u::u:.


no Thoughtseize, duress, or Mind Twist to hedge against control?

I've tried Thoughtseize, Duress, and Inquisition of Kozilek in other decks and wasn't a fan. I guess they're pretty good the turn you're trying to combo, but that extra colored mana can be a pain. I'll think about it. Mind Twist is a good idea. This deck ramps fast enough to really get someone with it.


Why run Lattice as well as Array?

It's nuts with Hurkyl's Recall and Rebuild.


Array is a complete do-nothing outside the engame of winning, and Lattice has only two uses outside of it, what do you gain by running both? Also, there's an analysis of page 2 of my MTGS thread which basically leads to the conclusion that Goblin Cannon is strictly better than Array if you're going to use that slot. Isn't running just one of them better though?

I read in that thread you linked about Goblin Cannon and I agree that it and Increasing Ambition are better. The reason I ran both is to make sure I had one when I made infinite mana. I try to drop all the pieces in one turn, because my group is incredibly wary about Basalt Monolith, etc. from this deck. It's incredibly difficult to have enough colored mana to drop all pieces in one turn and kill with Oona, Queen of the Fae. Gemstone Array, Candelabra of Tawnos, and Mycosynth Lattice help with that.

Your suggestions are excellent, and I'm going to be overhauling my list soon. Thanks!

[Killane]

thanks for all the answers, makes a good deal of sense. I'm going to be changing my list soon- it's tutor-light and draw-heavy right now and needs to be faster and more resilient. Currently considering 16 main deck changes:

Strip Mine ---> Darkwater Catacombs
Academy Ruins ---> Oboro, Palace in the Clouds

Dark Confidant ---> Recurring Insight (+4)
Memory Jar ---> Chain of Vapor (-4)
Fact or Fiction ---> Hyrkyll's Recall (-2)
Lilliana of the Veil---> Mycosynth Lattice (+3)
Scroll Rack--- > Phantasmal Image (0)
Tidespout Tyrant ---> Diabolic Revelation (-3)
Goblin Cannon ----- > Increasing Ambition (+1)

Flusterstorm---> River of Tears (-1)
Snapcaster Mage--> Copy Artifact (0)
Cryptic Command--> Phyrexian Revoker (-2)
Force Spike ---> Mana Leak (+1)

Executioner's Capsule ---- > Cabal Ritual (+1)
Thoughtseize------- > Gilded Lotus (+4)
Black Sun's Zenith (to sideboard replacing Hurkyl's) ----------> Shred Memory (0)

Net (+2) CMC

That said, I'm very reluctant to cut Tidespout Tyrant. Have you considered going back to him at all? He's such a huge bomb and makes infinite colored mana with quite a few cards in the deck.

[Kuma]

Have you considered going back to Tidespout Tyrant at all? He's such a huge bomb and makes infinite colored mana with quite a few cards in the deck.

I've thought about it. He's awesome but he costs a ton of mana and is pretty lousy to play against if someone gets him with Bribery. I rarely won with him when I ran him. He's under consideration, for sure.

I like your proposed changes. I run everything you're adding except Mana Leak and Increasing Ambition. I'll probably be running Increasing Ambition soon though.

[Killane]

If you push it, what's your fundamental turn? We play quite a few 1vs1 matches here and fast aggro is common. It's not too hard to slow them down a bit, but generally I think Goldfishing them is a better strategy. They're well prepared for GY dependent combo, which is one of the reasons I got into this list in the first place - they just become a goldfish. How fast do you think this deck can be pushed to? I know we'll never get to Hermit Druid speed (though, like I said my meta is very anti-graveyard becuase they're used to it, so I think in practice we'll always be faster than druid where I live), but do you think it's possible to build Oona as a consistent turn 4 deck? Right now I feel like it's 5-6 on average, which is slower than I'm comfortable with. Maybe my changes will increase the speed.

[Kuma]

I goldfished ten games with my list and the average turn I killed the table was 4.8. I had six turn fours, two turn fives, a turn six, and a turn eight. I think an average of turn four is pushing it, but it can certainly win on that turn. 4.5 is probably our best case scenario.

[Killane]

I goldfished 30 times last night specifically to test out a few potential changes and to focus on finding the right balance with Necropotence. That card is even harder to use in this deck than a normal combo deck!

I've found generally, in a goldfish situation, drawing to increase your pre-discard hand size to about 15-17 cards (so draw 10 if you already have a full grip) seems to be optimal 0 it allows you to sculpt the best 7 without having to pitch too much gas into exile.

I settled on the following changes for now:

Strip Mine ---> Darkwater Catacombs

Dark Confidant ---> Recurring Insight (+4)
Memory Jar ---> Chain of Vapor (-4)
Fact or Fiction ---> Hyrkyll's Recall (-2)
Lilliana of the Veil---> Mycosynth Lattice (+3)
Scroll Rack--- > Phantasmal Image (0)
Tidespout Tyrant ---> Diabolic Revelation (-3)
Goblin Cannon ----- > Cabal Ritual (+2)

Flusterstorm---> Gilded Lotus (+4)
Snapcaster Mage--> Copy Artifact (0)
Cryptic Command--> Phyrexian Revoker (-2)
Force Spike ---> Mana Leak (+1)

Black Sun's Zenith (to sideboard replacing Hurkyl's) ----------> Shred Memory (0)

What's missing is that I did not cut Executioner's Capsule or Thoughseize, nor did I add the 34th land or Increasing Ambition, nor did I cut Academy Ruins for Oboro.

I ALWAYS feel flooded with this deck - it still feels like I draw too much land, but I'm not willing to cut anymore due to mulligan issues and the fact that theory dictates I'm already much lighter than I feel comfortable. That said, going up to 34 lands would make the issue that much worse.

Capsule is very strong. It's easy to find, kills most things I need to kill, and can be recurred. Academy Ruins helps this plan and is now the only colorless land in the deck - given the filter land, Urborg, etc... I did not find it to be a problem at all during the goldfish session, even when I drew it (3 times) in the opening hand.

I didn't add Increasing Ambition because apparently I don't own one - go figure! That said, I'm not sure I'm going to - it's very good, but I might be acquiring an imperial seal in the near future and/or a grim tutor, and these effects the deck clearly wants.

I drew a God hand once (turn 1 kill with protection):

Mana Crypt
Grim Monolith
Power Artifact
Mox Opal
Island
Mycosynth Lattice
Pact of Negation

Which is believe is the best possible opening hand in the format (I don't think there are any possible t1 kills with double protection in the format at all). Naturally, this means I will never draw it in a tournament.

5 Turn 3 kills, most of which involved Gilded Lotus. Seriously I should never have cut that card - especially with Metamorph copying it it's way too good.

Fully 15 of the remaining 24 games would have ended on turn 4,5 or 6, all with some back-up. I am a bit concerned with the ability of this deck to fight something like a fully optimized, 20+ counterspell Zur build. Backup usually consists of 1-2 counterspells and/or discard effects, and that's it. That said, many of these games included a turn 1 Pithing needle or Phyrexian Revoker, which, shutting off Necropotence, makes them spend time on removing the issue.

The last 9 games ended in what I'd call the late game for this deck, turn 7+. the main issue was finding a tutor, and also I included the assumption that every turn past turn 3 I'd have to interact with the opponent in some way if possible (thus I would not tap out on turn 4 if holding a counterspell or bounce spell, and summed I'd have to use it to stop something they were doing).

Of note, I only used Ad Nauseum 12 times out of the 30 games, so the build is not overly dependent on it. I set a rule that if I could not resolve it by turn 5, I would not use it, assuming life totals would be too low. I also assumed if cast turn 3 I had taken 5 damage (unless I had been playing countermagic or removal every turn) and turn 4 I had taken 10, plus any shock/pain/fetch damage.

Overall I'm pretty encouraged by the results. I'm convinced that the build is fast enough to roll over any deck not running countermagic or discard, except for ultra-fast Krenko builds, but I'm also comfortable that enough countermagic, removal, and other disruption is included to win those match-ups.

I think Zur, Azami, and similar decks will be the most difficult match-up. Any such deck that brings superior counter magic to the table is a concern. However, I have literally never seen a player in Hamilton running Zur, and the other similar decks I find suck against the ultrafast aggro - they just get overwhelmed and are slower than Oona, so they can't get back into it. Hopefully Zur won't show, and I can dodge the others in the early rounds and get into the winner's bracket, which they sould be absent from (historically they have not done well here).

Hopefully I can get some actualy game testing in tonight at the LGS.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Killane, not sure if you're running it already or not, but if you're really worried about control try packing a Defense Grid. You can even Transmute for it due to 2 casting cost.

[Killane]

Seems good.

Anyone have experience piloting this thing vs a 20+ counter Zur list?

[Kuma]

Just to clarify, Killane, do you usually play 1v1 or multiplayer with your Oona list?


Anyone have experience piloting this thing vs a 20+ counter Zur list?

Unfortunately, no. Sounds like that's a 1v1 list. I couldn't imagine running 20 counterspells in multiplayer.

[Killane]

The tournaments here are about 50/50, and they rarely decide which prior to the start of the event. At my LGS, you need a deck a works both ways.

[Jivanmukta]

The tournaments here are about 50/50, and they rarely decide which prior to the start of the event. At my LGS, you need a deck a works both ways.

Damn. That seems pretty brutal. Does the 20counterspell Zur guy lose multi every game because that sounds terrible. 1v1 not sure how to help you there. Oona needs a much higher counter/discard count for 1v1ing.

[Kirika]

I also run Oona as my competitive EDH deck for 4 man pods. That is what Jupiter Games ran. I feel Oona is just better then both Azami and Zur having played all three. I also prefer Oona to hermit druid decks because its not reliant on the grave yard but slower. Azami lacks tutors and Oona being part of the win combo once you get infinite mana just makes it better then Zur. The Zur get Necro is great if it works but Zur tends to die or gets countered and you still need to draw into mana + win. Getting Mindslavered by the Arcum Dagsson or Sharuum player and necroing yourself to death was no fun either. I haven't run Zur in awhile and just recently started running Azami again. Zur with 20+ counters sounds like a 1v1 tweaked version as mine was tweaked for 4 man pods. I did have more counters in my Zur deck then in Azami if I recall.

I listed my Azami build in this thread
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25079-EDH-Azami-Lady-of-Card-Advantage
Only 9 Counterspells not counting Cursecatcher, Glen Elendra Archmage or Voidmage Prodigy
I think you have to run at least the following counters minimum
Counterspell (the classic)
Force of Will (0 mana protects your combo)
Hinder (tuck for problem generals)
Mana Drain (counter and accelerator)
Muddle the Mixture (counter + transmute)
Pact of Negation (0 mana protects your combo)

Misdirection and Dispel might be worth considering if you run into other counterspell decks often.

I don't think Azami is as good as Oona without black for the tutors sometimes you just draw into lands or just get your wizards wrathed. Getting locked out by Llawan is also an issue. I just been running this deck a whole lot longer then Oona so I have kept it.

I'll have to dig up my last Zur list it wasn't updated in over a year though. I don't play as much competitive EDH as I used to not going to Jupiter Games or Jim Henleys as much. Top Deck games ran a competitive EDH tourney once. Will post my updated Zur list. I been running Oona for awhile and I think the only thing I actually missed from Zur was Silence and the white removal. I think the last thing I put in Zur was Consecrated Sphinx before dismantling it for Merike Ri Berit for a more casual metagame.

Have to post my version of Oona also. Currently figuring out what to cut for that Cyclonic Rift as its pretty tight.

[Killane]

Damn. That seems pretty brutal. Does the 20counterspell Zur guy lose multi every game because that sounds terrible. 1v1 not sure how to help you there. Oona needs a much higher counter/discard count for 1v1ing.

There is not currently a 20 counterspell Zur guy show shows regularly, but there are a few PTQ grinder/semipros around here who show up to the larger prize events with pretty well-tuned builds of top tier decks. I'm trying to tune this thing as much as possible against a partially known field and then an unknown, top-tier field.

[Killane]

Sorry for the double post, but the two have nothing to do with each other.

I thought I'd post my list here:

General (1)

Oona, Queen of the Fae

Fast Mana (16)

0 Mox Opal
0 Mox Diamond
0 Chrome Mox
0 Lotus Petal
0 Lion's Eye Diamond
0 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Dark Ritual
1 Mana Vault
2 Dimir Signet
2 Grim Monolith
2 Talisman of Dominanace
2 Cabal Ritual
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Cloud Key
5 Gilded Lotus

Tutors (14)

1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Transmute Artifact
2 Shred Memory
3 Fabricate
3 Beseech the Queen
3 Trinket Mage
3 Praetor's Grasp
4 Mystical Teachings
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
5 Diabolic Revelations

Draw (6)

1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Stroke of Genius
3 Timetwister
3 Necropotence
5 Future Sight
5 Ad Nauseum
6 Time Spiral

Combo Pieces (5)

2 Power Artifact
3 Rings of Brighthearth
4 Goblin Cannon
4 Tendrils of Agony
6 Mycosynth Lattice

Permission (9)

0 Pact of Negation
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Mana Drain
2 Counterspell
2 Negate
3 Spell Crumple
5 Misdirection
5 Force of Will

Discard (3)

1 Mind Twist
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress

Silver Bullets (11)

1 Pithing Needle
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Echoing Truth
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Gilded Drake
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Capsize
4 Phyrexian Metamorph

Recursion (1)

3 Yawgmoth's Will

Land (33)

0 Polluted Delta
0 Flooded Strand
0 Misty Rainforest
0 Scalding Tarn
0 Marsh Flats
0 Verdant Catacombs

0 Underground Sea
0 Watery Grave
0 Command Tower
0 Underground River
0 City of Brass
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Sunken Ruins
0 Forbidden Orchard
0 Creeping Tar Pit
0 Jwar Island Refuge
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Salt Marsh
0 Secluded Glen

0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Tolaria West
0 Bojuka Bog

0 Academy Ruins

8 Island
2 Swamp

Sideboard (10)

0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dispel
2 Torpor Orb
2 Defence Grid
3 Virtue's Ruin
3 Propaganda
2 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Helm of Obediance
1 Nhilil Spellbomb
4 Leyline of the Void

[Kuma]

Major Changes:

+ Tainted Pact
+ Minamo, School at Water's Edge
+ Tolaria
+ Darkslick Shores
+ Snow-Covered Island
+ Snow-Covered Swamp
+ Magosi, the Waterveil

- 6 Island
- 2 Swamp

I decided to try out Tainted Pact and adjusted the mana base accordingly. I also reduced the number of lands by two, because I don't think we need 35 lands. Magosi, the Waterveil + Rings of Brighthearth + Candelabra of Tawnos allows for infinite turns. You put a counter on Magosi, the Waterveil, untap it with Candelabra of Tawnos, and copy the "take an extra turn" ability with Rings of Brighthearth.

- Gemstone Array
- Lotus Petal
- Talisman of Dominance

+ Increasing Ambition

Lotus Petal and Talisman of Dominance were the worst mana rocks in the deck. Gemstone Array was inferior to a host of other options as discussed earlier in the thread. Increasing Ambition does everything Gemstone Array does while not being useless outside of infinite mana and only costs :b: more.

- Pithing Needle
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Spellskite

These are remnants from when I had to play against Arcum Dagsson every game. Some of these may find their way back in, but I don't think they're necessary right now.

- Misdirection
- Perplex
- Recurring Insight
- Tezzeret the Seeker

+ Consecrated Sphinx
+ Timetwister

Misdirection was the worst free counterspell. Perplex was both a terrible counterspell and a terrible tutor. Recurring Insight was inferior to Consecrated Sphinx because Consecrated Sphinx draws you 14*(n-1) extra cards when combined with Time Spiral or Timetwister where n is the number of players in the game.

+ Tidespout Tyrant

Tidespout Tyrant combos with everything. I figure he's worth another shot.

+ Thoughtseize
+ Duress
+ Mind Twist

I want to give discard a shot to see if it helps me win by stripping a key answer the turn I want to win. Mind Twist has the power to wreck someone with all the mana this deck generates.

+ Necropotence
+ Mystical Teachings
+ Snapcaster Mage
+ Oblivion Stone

Necropotence needs little explanation as it's a powerful card-drawing beast. Mystical Teachings seems nice for grabbing Ad Nauseam at end of turn, and it's also great with Snapcaster Mage. Snapcaster Mage should be great for recurring tutors and Timetwisters. It's too powerful not to give it another shot. Oblivion Stone makes its way back in because I feel like we should have some kind of answer for when everything goes to hell.

EDIT: Updated first post.

[Jivanmukta]

Major Changes:

+ Tainted Pact
+ Minamo, School at Water's Edge
+ Tolaria
+ Darkslick Shores
+ Snow-Covered Island
+ Snow-Covered Swamp
+ Magosi, the Waterveil

- 6 Island
- 2 Swamp

I decided to try out Tainted Pact and adjusted the mana base accordingly. I also reduced the number of lands by two, because I don't think we need 35 lands. Magosi, the Waterveil + Rings of Brighthearth + Candelabra of Tawnos allows for infinite turns. You put a counter on Magosi, the Waterveil, untap it with Candelabra of Tawnos, and copy the "take an extra turn" ability with Rings of Brighthearth. Looking good for the start. I don't think you'll be disappointed with either change. Extra combos are ALWAYS helpful for us and as I've said before, Tainted Pact is an absolute beast.

- Gemstone Array
- Lotus Petal
- Talisman of Dominance

+ Increasing Ambition

Lotus Petal and Talisman of Dominance were the worst mana rocks in the deck. Gemstone Array was inferior to a host of other options as discussed earlier in the thread. Increasing Ambition does everything Gemstone Array does while not being useless outside of infinite mana and only costs :b: more. This you'll need to tell me how it plays. The removal of cheap mana accel concerns me greatly. Potentially it makes no difference but hey, that's why we playtest.

- Pithing Needle
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Spellskite

These are remnants from when I had to play against Arcum Dagsson every game. Some of these may find their way back in, but I don't think they're necessary right now. Meta cards are meta. Needle is the only one I still run as it's tutorable by Trinket Mage and shuts down quite a lot.

- Misdirection
- Perplex
- Recurring Insight
- Tezzeret the Seeker

+ Consecrated Sphinx
+ Timetwister

Misdirection was the worst free counterspell. Perplex was both a terrible counterspell and a terrible tutor. Recurring Insight was inferior to Consecrated Sphinx because Consecrated Sphinx draws you 14*(n-1) extra cards when combined with Time Spiral or Timetwister where n is the number of players in the game. Removing Tezz!?!! What kind of blasphemous heresy is this. Aside from that shocker I hadn't thought of trying Sphinx. It's potentially tons of card advantage but I honestly prefer things like Mystic Remora or Rhystic Study as they don't die to everything and are far cheaper to cast. Seriously though, no Tezz? You rebel.

+ Tidespout Tyrant

Tidespout Tyrant combos with everything. I figure he's worth another shot. I've finally started testing him and I LOVE him. Love love love. He combos with everything. His being a creature that costs 8 sucks a whole lot but damn is he worth the power.

+ Thoughtseize
+ Duress
+ Mind Twist

I want to give discard a shot to see if it helps me win by stripping a key answer the turn I want to win. Mind Twist has the power to wreck someone with all the mana this deck generates. Mind Twist wins games by itself. The other two are quality as well, a little 1v1ish but highly effective.

+ Necropotence
+ Mystical Teachings
+ Snapcaster Mage
+ Oblivion Stone

Necropotence needs little explanation as it's a powerful card-drawing beast. Mystical Teachings seems nice for grabbing Ad Nauseam at end of turn, and it's also great with Snapcaster Mage. Snapcaster Mage should be great for recurring tutors and Timetwisters. It's too powerful not to give it another shot. Oblivion Stone makes its way back in because I feel like we should have some kind of answer for when everything goes to hell. I run all of them except Mystical Teachings. It....just costs so much mana. I've played with it and Forbidden Alchemy in the same spot and don't like my filtering/tutors that expensive.

I'll say again....no Tezz? Really?

[Kuma]

Tezzeret the Seeker was the last card I cut for the changes. He was probably the worst tutor I was still running. The deck doesn't protect him very well, making him effectively :3::u::u:: Search your library for an artifact with converted mana cost four or less and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.

He might make it back in, as I'm iffy about some of the changes. I'm just trying some new things out.

[Jivanmukta]

I'd suggest trying to replace Tainted Isle if possible. With the completely singleton land base you probably won't always have a swamp. Don't forget that Snow-Covered Swamps/Islands exist and count as basic but have different names for Tainted pact.

[Kuma]

I'd suggest trying to replace Tainted Isle if possible. With the completely singleton land base you probably won't always have a swamp. Don't forget that Snow-Covered Swamps/Islands exist and count as basic but have different names for Tainted pact.

I only reduced the number of Swamps in the deck by one. I doubt it'll be a problem. I'll keep my eye on it though.

[Kirika]

This is my current competitive Oona build. I play mostly in 4 man pods. which is what they run at Jim Henleys, Jupiter Games, Star City EDH side tournies.

Would like to fit in some more counters but the deck is incredibly tight as is. I'm thinking I would like to add Phyrexian Revoker as I tend to play vs Sharuum, Arcum and Hermit Druid decks often at least for testing since that is what my friends run. I haven't run up against a Zur since I took mine apart long time ago and so did my friend. Last 4 man pod I was in had myself with Oona, a Sharuum and 2 byes that weren't a combo/control deck. Comboed turn 6.

General (1)
Oona, Queen of the Fae

Artifacts (22)
Basalt Monolith
Candelabra of Tawnos
Chrome Mox
Dimir Signet
Gilded Lotus
Grim Monolith
Lotus Petal
Mox Diamond
Mox Opal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lotus Bloom
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Mycosynth Lattice
Sculpting Steel
Oblivion Stone
Pithing Needle
Rings of Brighthearth
Sensei's Divining Top
Sol Ring
Talisman of Dominanace
Worn Powerstone

Creature (9)
Consecrated Sphinx
Dimir Infiltrator
Gilded Drake
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Phantasmal Image
Phyrexian Metamorph
Snapcaster Mage
Tidespout Tyrant
Trinket Mage

Enchantment (3)
Copy Artifact
Necropotence
Power Artifact

Instant (20)
Ad Nauseam
Cabal Ritual
Capsize
Chain of Vapor
Counterspell
Cyclonic Rift
Dark Ritual
Dispel
Force of Will
Hinder
Hurkyl's Recall
Mana Drain
Mystical Teachings
Muddle the Mixture
Mystical Tutor
Pact of Negation
Rebuild
Shred Memory
Stroke of Genius
Vampiric Tutor

Planeswalkers (1)
Tezzeret the Seeker

Sorcery (11)
Bribery
Diabolic Revelation
Demonic Tutor
Grim Tutor
Mind Twist
Praetor's Grasp
Personal Tutor
Transmute Artifact
Time Spiral
Timetwister
Yawgmoth's Will

Lands (33)
Academy Ruins
Bloodstained Mire
Bojuka Bog
City of Brass
Command Tower
Darkslick Shores
Darkwater Catacombs
Drowned Catacomb
Exotic Orchard
Flooded Strand
Forbidden Orchard
Island
Marsh Flats
Magosi, the Waterveil
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Misty Rainforest
Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Polluted Delta
Reflecting Pool
River of Tears
Scalding Tarn
Seat of the Synod
Snow-Covered Island
Snow-Covered Swamp
Sunken Ruins
Swamp
Tolaria West
Underground River
Underground Sea
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Vault of Whispers
Verdant Catacombs
Watery Grave


Card Explainations
Basalt Monolith - Combos with Power Artifact or Rings of Brighthearth for infinite mana.

Candelabra of Tawnos - Untaps your lands so you have enough colored mana to mill everyone out in one go once you have infinite mana.

Lion's Eye Diamond - Yes you discard your hand but it combos with tutors and Ad Nauseam.

Oblivion Stone - Expensive but sometimes you need a reset button. This is often the case vs Sharuum. Can recur it with Academy Ruins if you need to use it again.

Pithing Needle - You need me to defeat Hermit Druid. Also good vs generals with good abilities like Arcum and Sharuum.

Rings of Brighthearth - combos with Basalt Monolith for infinite mana, Magosi, the Waterveil + Candelabra of Tawnos for infinite turns.

Sensei's Divining Top - Auto include for improving card quality.

Consecrated Sphinx - Auto include in any blue deck. If it doesn't die immediately it draws you lots of cards in 4 player pods.

Dimir Infiltrator - Transmutes for Demonic Tutor.

Gilded Drake - Takes control of threatening creatures for cheap.

Llawan, Cephalid Empress - Really good vs decks that require blue creatures to win. Arcum, Sharuum, Zur, etc.

Phantasmal Image - cheap clone. Good with Tidespout Tyrant or Consecrated Sphinx.

Phyrexian Metamorph - clone that doubles as a copy artifact.

Snapcaster Mage - Recursion

Tidespout Tyrant - combos with cheap mana rocks to get infinite mana.

Trinket Mage - tutors for Candelabra, Pithing Needle, Top.

Necropotence - Draws you lots of cards. Draw up to 16 cards once you play Necro and you will usually win your next turn. You have to watch
out you don't get Mindslavered by Arcum or Sharuum players but the risk is worth the reward.

Power Artifact - combos with Basalt Monolith or Grim Monolith for infinite mana.

Ad Nauseam - Draws lots of cards.

Cabal Ritual - mana acceleration

Capsize - reusable bounce

Chain of Vapor - 1 mana bounce

Counterspell - protect your combo / counter theirs.

Cyclonic Rift - Bounce that is also a reset button.

Dark Ritual - mana acceleration

Dispel - protect your combo, testing this over Misdirection as this needs an extra mana but misdirection needs an extra blue card in hand.

Force of Will - free counter protect your combo

Hinder - tuck for problem generals.

Hurkyl's Recall - Bounces mana rocks to generate mana.

Mana Drain - protect your combo / counter theirs + mana acceleration

Mystical Teachings - Gets you a counterspell or Ad Nauseam if you need it

Muddle the Mixture - protect your combo / transmutes for Demonic Tutor or other 2 mana spell.

Mystical Tutor - Gets you Ad Nauseam

Pact of Negation - free counter to protect your combo

Rebuild - bounces artifacts.

Shred Memory - transmutes for Demonic Tutor + other 2 mana spells.

Stroke of Genius - Draw lots of cards or make an opponent draw out.

Vampiric Tutor - tutor

Bribery - Takes the best creature. With Emrakul out of the running
taking a blue players Consecrated Sphinx to draw lots of cards is
probably the best move although taking a Blightsteel Collosus and just
swinging works too.

Diabolic Revelation - its expensive but it often is game winning if
you can cast it for enough to find a game winning combo.

Mindtwist - A must counter for other control decks.

Timetwister - with all the fast mana you can usually cast it for advantage. Really awesome if you have a Consecrated Sphinx.

Time Spirial - drawing more cards and untaping your lands so you can have enough colored to win is pretty good.

Yawgmoth's Will - Recursion in case one or more of your combo peices
gets in the grave yard.

Academy Ruins - Gets your destroyed artifact combo peices or recur
Oblivion Stone

Bojuka Bog - Removes a graveyard doesn't work vs Hermit Druid but useful vs reanimator and Sharuum after you blow up all their stuff with an Oblivion Stone.

Magosi, the Waterveil - combos with Candelabra + Rings of Brighthearth
to give you infinite turns.

Tolaria West - Transmutes for Academy Ruins or a 0 cost Mana rock if you need it.

Not included
Targeted 1 for 1 Discard - Targeted 1 for 1 discard is better for 1v1. You don't know who has a counter. Although you can take combo peices against other combo decks just a bit too narrow. Better to cast your answer or counter theirs.

Palinchron - High casting cost and requires you to run High Tide.

Rite of Replication - this can be awesome if games go long vs creature decks but that usually is not the case as someone combos out so this got cut for Cyclonic Rift.

@Killane
How are Goblin Cannon and Tendril's been working for you? I find Tendrils really is only good if you can get the Tyrant artifact loop going so you can kill everyone if not its kinda lacking. Haven't even thought of running Goblin Cannon. Also does Future Sight really work all that well? It was pretty effective in Azami where you could just tap a Wizard to draw something you couldn't play but it seems somewhat slow.

@Kuma
Tainted Pact is great as it gets you what you need for cheap.

Tyrant is pure win if he resolves. The chance of flipping him for huge damage isn't that great and you usually like to see him anyways. Its like not running Blightsteel collosus in vintage because your afraid of the damage from the Confidant flip.

Sphinx is awesome if it lives. I actually don't like Remora that much as you have to tap down mana for it which I rather be tutoring or leaving up mana to counter stuff.

Tez is pretty good to get what you need and him getting killed really depends what your running up against. If they have creatures to kill Tez they usually creature deck bye or are committing something they rather not be swinging with to kill Tez which is ok by me.

@Jivanmukta
I don't tun Tained Isle either. You don't always have a swamp. I'm actually considering cutting the Bog because I hate come into play tapped lands. Magosi is part of a win combo so is worth the come into play tapped.

[Jivanmukta]

Alright people. A card I'm sure we've all seen (and probably run at one point) is Memory Plunder. Is this card too slow? I believe as a playgroup becomes more powerful, so does the card. It can act as an instant speed Demonic Tutor, another Counterspell, instant Wrath, ect... In 1v1 I would never consider it but with 3 opponents I've noticed there seems to always be at least 1-2 spells I would love to steal. It has the versatility and potential power that this deck loves.

Thoughts?

[Kuma]

Alright people. A card I'm sure we've all seen (and probably run at one point) is Memory Plunder. Is this card too slow? I believe as a playgroup becomes more powerful, so does the card. It can act as an instant speed Demonic Tutor, another Counterspell, instant Wrath, ect... In 1v1 I would never consider it but with 3 opponents I've noticed there seems to always be at least 1-2 spells I would love to steal. It has the versatility and potential power that this deck loves.

Thoughts?

The deck is built to kill people before Memory Plunder is relevant. Still, things often do go wrong. What would you cut for it? Would Knowledge Exploitation be better given the creature type of Oona, Queen of the Fae's tokens?

In my experience, the deck hasn't needed a card like that, but YMMV.

[Jivanmukta]

The deck is built to kill people before Memory Plunder is relevant. Still, things often do go wrong. What would you cut for it? Would Knowledge Exploitation be better given the creature type of Oona, Queen of the Fae's tokens?

In my experience, the deck hasn't needed a card like that, but YMMV.

Having played with both cards I can say that Exploitation is way too expensive. Cuts for Plunder would be difficult and the card is 'kind' of expensive/akward to cast. It's just been the current thought running through my mind. High tuned playgroups have so many good spells to steal.

[Kuma]

- Thoughtseize
- Duress
- Mind Twist

+ Lim-Dul's Vault
+ Pithing Needle
+ Tezzeret the Seeker

I finally got a chance to test some of the new cards I added, and the discard was terrible. It doesn't do enough and it's too hard to know who to target with it. Also, taking up an extra colored mana is really bad on a combo turn.

Tezzeret the Seeker and Lim-Dul's Vault never should have come out of the deck as they're amazing. Pithing Needle goes back in as Arcum Dagsson rears its ugly head again.

Updated first post.

[Jivanmukta]

- Thoughtseize
- Duress
- Mind Twist

+ Lim-Dul's Vault
+ Pithing Needle
+ Tezzeret the Seeker

I finally got a chance to test some of the new cards I added, and the discard was terrible. It doesn't do enough and it's too hard to know who to target with it. Also, taking up an extra colored mana is really bad on a combo turn.

Tezzeret the Seeker and Lim-Dul's Vault never should have come out of the deck as they're amazing. Pithing Needle goes back in as Arcum Dagsson rears its ugly head again.

Updated first post.

Glad to see you came to your senses.

I'm actually surprised about the discard removal. Although I suppose they are only really strong in duels.

[Jivanmukta]

Staff of Domination is unbanned. Does it have a spot as an extra Stroke of Genius when we combo off? Or maybe for utility?

Edit: I also realized it could replace Beseech the Queen as it does the same thing without hitting for 6 off AN.

[Kuma]

Staff of Domination is unbanned. Does it have a spot as an extra Stroke of Genius when we combo off? Or maybe for utility?

Edit: I also realized it could replace Beseech the Queen as it does the same thing without hitting for 6 off AN.

Yeah, I think Staff of Domination has a place in this deck. I've made some other changes too.

- Worn Powerstone
- Necropotence
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Capsize
- Oblivion Stone
- Mycosynth Lattice

+ Staff of Domination
+ Everflowing Chalice
+ Phyrexian Revoker
+ Spellskite
+ Dream Halls
+ Enter the Infinite

Everflowing Chalice seems like an upgrade to Worn Powerstone and reduces CMC for Ad Nauseam. Necropotence isn't worth it when every other deck in the same tier in my playgroup is running Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker. Consecrated Sphinx was expensive, unwieldy, and was usually stolen or killed after drawing me two cards. The deck has better bounce options than Capsize, especially Cyclonic Rift. I never really found myself needing a reset button or winning afterwards making Oblivion Stone an easy cut. Staff of Domination is pretty much a straight upgrade to Mycosynth Lattice although I'll miss the synergy with Hurkyl's Recall.

Since I only play this deck against Arcum Dagsson and other fast combo decks, Phyrexian Revoker and Spellskite make their way back in. I've also added Dream Halls and Enter the Infinite to give the deck some resiliency in the form of an additional kill combo.

Updated first post.

[jimirynk]

I've been playing Oona for a couple years now and have never really been happy with a ton of tutors, how have you liked the ALL tutor plan? I run all of them but Tainted Pact, Praetor's Grasp, Shred Memory, Dimir Infiltrator, Mystical Teachings, Increasing Ambition, Diabolic Revelation.

[Kuma]

I've been playing Oona for a couple years now and have never really been happy with a ton of tutors, how have you liked the ALL tutor plan? I run all of them but Tainted Pact, Praetor's Grasp, Shred Memory, Dimir Infiltrator, Mystical Teachings, Increasing Ambition, Diabolic Revelation.

I'm not the biggest fan of the sorcery speed tutors that show your opponents what you got, as you usually have to use them the turn you're trying to win to avoid suspicion. I'm not 100% sold on Mystical Teachings either, but it is instant speed, finds Ad Nauseam and if you flash it back it's card advantage. Diabolic Revelation is likely more mana than it's worth in this deck, but I'm not ready to cut a card that can tutor for an entire combo and the means to protect it.

Tainted Pact, Praetor's Grasp, and Increasing Ambition are the nuts.

[Kirika]

Yay Staff of Dominiation is unbanned. Looks like someone beat me to it though I agree with Kuma on
+1 Staff of Domination
-1 Mycosynth Latice

Considering Notion Thief but I think it costs 1 too much and the ability for Consecrated Sphinx to just mill you out has me saying nay.

@Jivanmukta
I tried out Memory Plunder awhile ago. Memory Plunder is a mixed bag. Its high variance because it is dependent on what is in your opponents deck. The best cards to target can be in your opponents hand or cast already. The high colored requirement means that your not casting it till turn 3 or 4 and not likely able to protect it. I found it would cast it end of turn 4 or 5 and run into a counter most of the time. I did grab someone's Bribery once but the decks so tight now there really isn't any room for it.

Knowledge Exploitation is just too expensive. I can't remember the last time I was swinging with Faerie Rogues.

Staff of Domination is totally worth running. Dunno if I would cut Beseech the Queen for it though. Kuma's cut of Mycosynth Lattice is likely what I will do.

I like having lots of tutors. Deck is basically a pile of mana, combos and tutors with some protection thrown in.


@Kuma
Have to figure out a cut for Lim-Dul's Vault. I cut it at some point.

I find a lot of card choices really depend on your local play group or what you expect to face.

Mindtwist actually is pretty good with all the fast mana you can Mindtwist the player that looks the most dangerous often taking them out of the game. This can leave you vulnerable as you have to tap out to do so usually. Not a fan of 1 for 1 discard in multiplayer though.

I found Consecrated Sphinx to be game winning if unanswered. I think its totally worth the risk. It is annoying if someone steals it though.

I like having the Oblivion Stone reset button available in case you play vs Sharum's many artifacts or my friends annoying enchantress + enchantments combo deck featuring Solitary Confinement and Leyline with Privileged Position + Sterling Grove enchantments. Having the reset button available is worth the slot in my opinion.

I'm not sure about Dream Halls as it can backfire since your opponents can use it too.

I like Mystical Teachings because it does find Ad Nauseam or a counter at instant speed. If you need that Force of Will to counter someone's game winning spell it finds it. Casting it twice is just icing on the cake. It is annoying when it gets Mana Drained though.

I found you have to burn fast mana like rituals or tap pay to untap mana rocks to cast Diabolic Revelation the few times I cast it but the ability to get the game winning combo with one card is good. It does sting if it gets Mana Drained.

[Kuma]

I like having the Oblivion Stone reset button available in case you play vs Sharum's many artifacts or my friends annoying enchantress + enchantments combo deck featuring Solitary Confinement and Leyline with Privileged Position + Sterling Grove enchantments. Having the reset button available is worth the slot in my opinion.

There are situations where I'd want the reset button. The problem is I never won after resetting the board because it was too much of a blowout on my end too.


I'm not sure about Dream Halls as it can backfire since your opponents can use it too.

I'd never cast Dream Halls unless I was immediately following it with an Ad Nauseam or Enter the Infinite. That way your opponents don't get to use it.

[Kuma]

- Tainted Isle
- Pithing Needle
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Phantasmal Image
- Everflowing Chalice

+ Cephalid Coliseum
+ Shizo, Death's Storehouse
+ Gemstone Mine
+ Fellwar Stone
+ Temporal Mastery

Tainted Isle didn't consistently provide colored mana, which was a huge problem. The deck needs more lands in general, so I've gone back up to 35 by adding Cephalid Coliseum, Shizo, Death's Storehouse and Gemstone Mine. Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker weren't necessary to beat Arcum Dagsson and so they're easy cuts. The main reason the deck was running Phantasmal Image was to kill Arcum Dagsson, which no longer works under the new legend rule. Everflowing Chalice was almost always cast for two mana, which makes Fellwar Stone more appealing. Temporal Mastery belongs in every blue EDH deck, and even though the CMC is high, being able to take an extra turn when you need to is crucial.

Updated first post.

[Jivanmukta]

So the two cards in Theros I think we can find use for are Curse of the Swine and Swan Song.

Song in particular seems incredible. Curse may just be too cute.

[Kuma]

So the two cards in Theros I think we can find use for are Curse of the Swine and Swan Song.

Song in particular seems incredible. Curse may just be too cute.

Swan Song is probably going to find its way in here. Curse of the Swine I'm pretty sure is too cute. We'd be better off with Damnation if we wanted that effect.

[TsumiBand]

Swan Song is probably going to find its way in here. Curse of the Swine I'm pretty sure is too cute. We'd be better off with Damnation if we wanted that effect.

The thing about Curse of the Swine though is that it's exiling all kinds of indestructibles or denying recursion and saying, "here, have a pig instead." So maybe it is a meta call, but man oh man lately there has been so bloody much graveyard tricks every time I go out to play cards that it's like Bojuka Bog was never even printed. Or people just don't even care about Relic of Progenitus or Nihil Spellbomb anymore and they just do what they want. I dunno, it's crazy.

But yeah, I think Curse of the Swine is going to show up a lot, even in decks where you wonder why they didn't just cast Wrath or Hallowed Burial or something similar.

[Kuma]

- Mystical Teachings

+ Diabolic Tutor

Same mana, but one searches for everything. I don't think I ever flashed back a Mystical Teachings anyway.

Updated first post.