[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm [Archive] - Page 36

Pelikanudo

05-26-2019, 08:23 AM

Hi, long time i don't post here, I just wanted to share what I am wearing and a couple of questions,

- nice to see now the majority of people are running CTherapy again.
- nice to see Opal is not played in TES - never was a good card for this archetype.
- from a couple of months till now I am playing 2 AN main and have to say that I'm happy about this - 14 lands 4 cmox, 7 discard.

I've seen recently that some of you are playing Mizzys Mastery and no PiF in side, I have in mind the wonderPreaux list, some considerations before and add if I am mistaken:
1- which is the main goal of MM n side?
2- I see the following options:

a) play MM with LED under BW and having AN in hand so it is discarded and then played by total 6 mana.
Does it really worth it? I mean the changes of occurring this casuistics are very few...
b) play its overloaded cost
Well this is a total of 10 mana includidng BW - does it really worht too? don't think so, by that mana you can do natural tendrils.
c) +1 storm for EtW in GY

apart of these 3 point, do I miss anything?
This card was something sooner or later I wasgoing to test, and now I play 2AN main I think it may work... but not sure chances are slim...

@wonderpreaux, any input on this - MM? (or any who plays MM) which is the reason of those 2 CRit? maybe to try to play the MM overaload cost?

Final Fortune

05-29-2019, 03:18 PM

Pelikanudo

05-29-2019, 05:02 PM

So Flashback Timetwister was just spoiled in Modern Horizons; I figure Land, Lion's Eye Diamond, Rite of Flame, Burning Wish and Echo of Eons is a play line this deck could make use of. If you have multiple LEDs, you can use the first LED to cast Echo of Eons and then the second LED to flashback in order to value your way through counter spells. This may be the best storm engine we've seen since Ad Nauseam, Modern Horizons is a gold mine for the format.

wow, didn't see this new card...
this for sure at least will be make me definately substitute D.R.

the question is:
- is this material for maindeck in TES?

I don't think so. Reasons:
1. you need it to be in GY so you need LED / T.Seize or CTherapy to yourself . by te moment the most degenerate is LED > THIS. but that's it... I mean you DO need LED in order to make the card absurd, then it is not that absurd.

is the card material for a new dek?
- don't know, but I see several interactions - the first is Quiet Speculation, the second is Gamble - maybe absurd? did wizards had in mind those 2 cards when they invented THAT card?

F.Fortute, I dont get this:
If you have multiple LEDs, you can use the first LED to cast Echo of Eons and then the second LED to flashback in order to value your way through counter spells.

Final Fortune

05-29-2019, 05:11 PM

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wow, didn't see this new card...
this for sure at least will be make me definately substitute D.R.

the question is:
- is this material for maindeck in TES?

I don't think so. Reasons:
1. you need it to be in GY so you need LED / T.Seize or CTherapy to yourself . by te moment the most degenerate is LED > THIS. but that's it... I mean you DO need LED in order to make the card absurd, then it is not that absurd.

is the card material for a new dek?
- don't know, but I see several interactions - the first is Quiet Speculation, the second is Gamble - maybe absurd? did wizards had in mind those 2 cards when they invented THAT card?

MDing Echo of Eons is a bad idea, what makes the card great is that Burning Wish and Lion's Eye Diamond get to abuse Flashback without becoming a graveyard centric deck - it's the Past in Flames principle again. I'm pretty sure this is definitely the new Storm engine for Burning Wish, getting a D7 with an average of +1 mana increases the fundamental turn of TES by a fair margin.

Edit: LED number 1 helps to pay for Echo of Eon's 6 mana cost, if it is countered then LED number 2 pays for Echo of Eon's flashback. Staggering LED activations basically gives you more business provided you have enough mana to pay for the +2cc vigorish over Diminishing Returns. Might be relevant when you're mana flooded, hasn't come up in testing yet.

Pelikanudo

05-29-2019, 05:40 PM

MDing Echo of Eons is a bad idea, what makes the card great is that Burning Wish and Lion's Eye Diamond get to abuse Flashback without becoming a graveyard centric deck - it's the Past in Flames principle again. I'm pretty sure this is definitely the new Storm engine for Burning Wish, getting a D7 with an average of +1 mana increases the fundamental turn of TES by a fair margin.

Edit: LED number 1 helps to pay for Echo of Eon's 6 mana cost, if it is countered then LED number 2 pays for Echo of Eon's flashback. Staggering LED activations basically gives you more business provided you have enough mana to pay for the +2cc vigorish over Diminishing Returns. Might be relevant when you're mana flooded, hasn't come up in testing yet.

completely agree.
such a good BW target...
I wonder If Silence will worth again...

Final Fortune

05-29-2019, 05:46 PM

completely agree.
such a good BW target...
I wonder If Silence will worth again...

Nah, D7 isn't for the Island match up unless it's your only option. Hard casting this thing is also better than Time Twister, the flashback is sitting in the graveyard for any LED draw to let you D7 again (Amazing for BMing with Grape Shot).

Pelikanudo

05-30-2019, 07:16 AM

Nah, D7 isn't for the Island match up unless it's your only option. Hard casting this thing is also better than Time Twister, the flashback is sitting in the graveyard for any LED draw to let you D7 again (Amazing for BMing with Grape Shot).
you know I always try to find excuses to play Orims Silence....
I really would like this to be used also for island MU

Final Fortune

05-30-2019, 07:26 AM

you know I always try to find excuses to play Orims Silence....
I really would like this to be used also for island MU

Gold Lands are bad, three colour deck is good.

In all seriousness the deck can still cast a D7 vs Island.dec in order to reset and build up a manabase if it's too late to Empty the Warrens. If you want to play it more vs Island.dec, then I think you can SB in Hope of Ghirapur.

Bryant Cook

05-30-2019, 08:54 AM

I had a lot of thoughts about Echo the Eons, so I wrote an article: https://theepicstorm.com/card-review-echo-the-eons/

Final Fortune

05-30-2019, 12:34 PM

I had a lot of thoughts about Echo the Eons, so I wrote an article: https://theepicstorm.com/card-review-echo-the-eons/

I had more or less the same thoughts, I don't think Faithless Looting is needed at all tho' because you're probably never going to cast Echo of Eons by hand anyway. I doubt cons 2 and 5 are relevant, it's a "3cc" card that exiles itself so how much it costs to hard cast isn't important and the 6cc won't burn you on a Ad Nauseam flip. Echo of Eons just makes Burning Wish a better gold fish, I'll take the added % vs D&T and its ilk.

whiskeyhughes

05-31-2019, 12:54 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest Max Gilmore (@MXGOnline):! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-29/

Vivarus

06-03-2019, 06:48 AM

It's possible that I went too deep with this one!

https://theepicstorm.com/surviving-the-karnpocalypse/

Pelikanudo

06-03-2019, 07:18 AM

It's possible that I went too deep with this one!

https://theepicstorm.com/surviving-the-karnpocalypse/

All I can say is:
a) to be quick - 2nd AN in the flex spot has been amazing for me, I took ideas from MMastery and now is making even the deck faster because of 2nd AN. Main, I am liking MMaster a lot.!
b) I am changing from 3 duress to 3 CTherapy main - it may sounbd strange but the unique match up you'll see you'll be more clnky is vs chalice decks, that is not a suggestion, that is my personal preference as I love Therapy, I always play it wheter in side or nmain, the idea about this is to hit several FoWs and after Narset, if you played some cantrips before, it iw better than duress. as said, sure if chalicedecks are everiwehre then duress is just better, I'll leave also some xantids or _Hope in my side as it is pretty tight as before I played 3 CTherpay in my side, now I'll leave 1 and 2 xantids...

What I will not do is to change any in my base because of karn or narset.
narset is good when played in 4th turn with fluster backup and 2 fows (1 took from narset)
karn is good if 4th chalice is in their side, but not likely. I can anticipate anyway and play B.W. > Pulverize as soon as i can.

EDIT: F.Fortune, well, you know, I have to disagree on this. I still can not determine if gold lands are bad.
EDIT 2: F.Fortune, why you say that with EE you have GY dependancy? I am having some ideas about a deck around this...

just my 2 cents.

Bryant Cook

06-16-2019, 11:58 PM

https://theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-miracles-ii/

Final Fortune

06-17-2019, 07:12 PM

So Scheming Symmetry is a sorcery speed mirrored Vampiric Tutor, seems like a way to abuse cantrip and LED interactions that could be useful in the SB for Burning Wish if not in the MD.

StonedforgeMystic

06-17-2019, 11:13 PM

New video!

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-06-17-19/

Pelikanudo

06-18-2019, 03:04 PM

So Scheming Symmetry is a sorcery speed mirrored Vampiric Tutor, seems like a way to abuse cantrip and LED interactions that could be useful in the SB for Burning Wish if not in the MD.

Ha ha ha that is my moment.
Time To Go Back to Orims/Silence definately!

long time ago that so many storm cards in a so brief period were released....

I really see the list clearly...
EDIT: Come on... was reading the spoiler and what about Veil of Summer...

EDIT 2: Again, I find EoE a very good card and also Scheming Symmetry, BUT ths new card - Veil of Summer - made me felt in a different way... Maybe I have understood badly this card... at its simplest It seems for me:

- 2x1 card by G mana vs Duress, Hymn, Therapy and all the discard in the world. :eek:
- 2x1 card by G mana vs Stifle! :cool:
- 2x1 card by G vs Sinkhole, Trophy, AD - well less important.
- cantrip if useless in opp. turn if casted blue or black spell
- Essentially Orims by G mana.

I really would like to play 4 in my TES deck of this card... which are your opinions on this card?

as said maybe I miss something... don't know... @F.Fortune this is better than your desired Orims in Red.!

Final Fortune

06-20-2019, 06:44 PM

Ha ha ha that is my moment.
Time To Go Back to Orims/Silence definately!

long time ago that so many storm cards in a so brief period were released....

I really see the list clearly...
EDIT: Come on... was reading the spoiler and what about Veil of Summer...

EDIT 2: Again, I find EoE a very good card and also Scheming Symmetry, BUT ths new card - Veil of Summer - made me felt in a different way... Maybe I have understood badly this card... at its simplest It seems for me:

- 2x1 card by G mana vs Duress, Hymn, Therapy and all the discard in the world. :eek:
- 2x1 card by G mana vs Stifle! :cool:
- 2x1 card by G vs Sinkhole, Trophy, AD - well less important.
- cantrip if useless in opp. turn if casted blue or black spell
- Essentially Orims by G mana.

I really would like to play 4 in my TES deck of this card... which are your opinions on this card?

as said maybe I miss something... don't know... @F.Fortune this is better than your desired Orims in Red.!

Summer's Veil is format defining, I don't think it's worth adding G to the manabase for TES but that is the best protection a Belcher or Oops, All Spells deck could get. The card is hilarious vs Storm as well, cast Summer's Veil in response to Tendrils of Agony, counter their kill condition and draw a new hand … yeah … I think between Scheming Symmetry and Summer's Veil there has to be a B/G combo deck out there.
I

Pelikanudo

06-21-2019, 09:27 AM

Summer's Veil is format defining, I don't think it's worth adding G to the manabase for TES but that is the best protection a Belcher or Oops, All Spells deck could get. The card is hilarious vs Storm as well, cast Summer's Veil in response to Tendrils of Agony, counter their kill condition and draw a new hand … yeah … I think between Scheming Symmetry and Summer's Veil there has to be a B/G combo deck out there.
I

well you think it does not worth. I think backwards - the card is just the nuts. long time ago I didn't see a card with so much potential in TES...

this will be my first approach (I am so happy about that...):

4 Gemstone Mine
3 Scalding Tarn
3 City of Brass
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Silence (maybe 3 and 14th land - not sure on this...)
4 Veil of Summer
1 Scheming Symmetry
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens

1 EoA
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 C.T / Duress
1 D.P
...

please, be good to me.

Lem? are you by here? I miss you... now time to discuss! come to here and be a man AntiGemstomes guy!
Any other who want to join to the discussion is well come.

Apart, I am seriously thinking in joining to the MTGO as MWStation is more often than not down.... but I don't like the money investment and therefore the competitiviness it involves for my opponents...
Everybody seems to play on MTGO right and not in MWstation, right?
you F.Fortune were not on MTGO right? I think the only ones are Mr. Bryant, wPreaux and that guy that looses because of having Island in main - dont remember his name... (sure and others).

Maybe it is time the raise of a New Online TESStormer... - I think I am getting old....

EDIT:I've been goldfishing with Scheming Symmetry and as I suspected didn't like the card too much... the thing is that you need a cantrip and ussualy the cantrips are used as setup, the goldsishing icnluded several hands with SS in it and always I've preferred 2nd AN as example, not sure if the card even deserves a slot in the Side... maybe in a shell with much more cantrips like ANT is good but not with only 8 cantrips...
any opinion on this?

StonedforgeMystic

06-27-2019, 11:10 AM

More Legacy Storm!

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-06-26-19/

whiskeyhughes

06-28-2019, 12:19 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest Brian Gallagher (Chhaam):! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-30/

JackaBo

06-28-2019, 02:14 AM

I am merely a hobby stormer but i like Veil quite a lot. It’s great that it both has a reactive and a proactive mode. I like that it can reactively beat flusterstorm if you for example play AdN or empty from your hand. It’s great FOW bait if you play it in the dark and it enables safe Eons lines.
However i like TES more with the stable grixis manabase and i dont like that veil can’t be cast off a ritual.
I ultimately think it might be better in the slower, already green, cousine.

Bryant Cook

06-30-2019, 05:37 PM

I was fortunate enough to win the Legacy Challenge today! You can check out all of my matches right here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jbIL5xEmr8&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6NvnadXghJzu8I5x_oA8syUf

LOLWut

07-01-2019, 11:27 AM

Congrats! Looking forward to watching the vids to see how the 3 Mox Opal/2 Defense Grid maindeck treated you.

StonedforgeMystic

07-10-2019, 11:34 PM

New video with version 7.5!

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-07-10-19/?fbclid=IwAR0usRUiAfO51C_5u4vUkW8N99CJ4UUyzudt8KjQm_2JlwAEnRMEparxtJw

mistercakes

07-11-2019, 01:20 AM

Haven't really watched your videos before. Really nice to hear someone who doesn't talk with uptalk or vocal fry. Fun to watch.

KobeBryan

07-11-2019, 11:25 PM

Is this the deck where someone put Mentor in and then had their sideboard transformed?

Bryant Cook

07-16-2019, 11:57 PM

https://theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-london-mulligan/

StonedforgeMystic

07-27-2019, 08:39 PM

Check it

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Thoughtseize
3 Empty the Warrens
3 Mox Opal
4 Ponder
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lotus Petal
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
4 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Chrome Mox
1 Swamp
4 Rite of Flame

1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
4 Echoing Truth
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Pulverize
1 Dark Petition
3 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Duress
1 Echo of Eons

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-07-27-19/

whiskeyhughes

07-29-2019, 10:59 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest TOM HEPP (NEGATOR77)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-31/

Pelikanudo

08-12-2019, 10:37 AM

Hi all,
I just wanted to share my experiences last 2 torunaments with 2 diff. list with new technology - means from Narset, Karn, Echo and Veil era.

my 1st torunament after all those changes was - well a pet deck with 4 veils. I took a list with 13 lands - gold lands - 4 gemstone 2 CoB and - yes 1 U. Paradise - with 4 silence and 4 Veil. and 2 AN.
I was pretty sure I was not going to win that torunmanet because of obvious reasons:
- silence+veil require a tough manabase and cant be casted in same turn because of need of 3/4 diff. colours
- gold lands are old technology - but you know I always like to sometimes go back and see old things - likely nostalgic
- no pulverize

just to note that my last build of TES before narset and co was just 7discard - duress+t.seize and 2 AN 14 lands (fetch base). next thing I was going to make was just say goodby to duress and put those therapies main instead. but EoA, narset and co came to the meta.

things about this torunmanet was:
- won all of my 1st matchups except vs lands.
- lost to 2 agro decks - with arcanist, and likes - didn't see stifle
- lost to lands - thisbis weird - no many times this happened to me...
- won rest which was another blue deck and sneak - related to sneak - it was curious as I always found a tough match up, but this time seems that sneak players are sad because of narset and the deck became worse with less griselbrand... happy about that.

a note, when trying new things I always try things first that almost know they don't work and next I just discard those things which I am sure they don't work. well sometimes is just fun! who.
I also made a mistake with CoFlawers... I think I've been played bad this card during 5 years... really thought this was just like a SolRing with mana of whatever colour....

well 2nd tornament I moreless know what I wanted to play:
- still undecided about the manabase - 1st option was fetches no basics and 2 green producers - tropical and bayou for veils and likely 2 badlands - but didnt like because it didn't contain any swamp to make fetch-> swamp and the fecthes needed to be 2scalding 2 bloodstainer.
- then I decided that was going to try just 1 bayou - and see what happens, initially I would take bayou when needed and not landing bayou if expect wastelands and is not the turn when I'll intend to cast veil. so definately the manabse was 14 lands 1 sea, 2 v.island, 1 badlands, 1 swamp, 1 bayou 4 poll, 4 b.mire. seems perfect.
- the thing undecided was if 2nd AN or not, I would have swapped 4th t.seize or 4th veil, but well lets try a more straightforward TES build - 1 AN then.
- the thing missing was also the disruption package - really wanted to make room for Therapy but t.seize seems more logical and better as starting point of test - it seems the staple disruption for any storm deck... then it needed to be 4 veil and 4 t.seize.

then I reached the 2nd torunament with that list and well, I have to say that I made exact 3 mistakes in that event and even I won all of my matches beeing 3 on blue (mircles, 4color and miracles i think) and in finals 1 D&T.
I am incredible surprised on the power level of veil and also in conjunction with discard. I'll expose some examples:
- the worst case scenario is if it is not countered and you can not combo
- an scenario involved: opp.: unknown card and fow, pierce and as unkonwn card vendilion! I had LED, DR, 2nd veil, 2 IT and BS and some lands - I cast veil and opp. casted vendilion and decided to take out LED and allowed to resolve veil and you know what? I drew from veil. and even I didnt need to cast BS. to combo that turn. maybe I would have not get the combo that turn but you know what? I drew a card!
- another scneario involved snap to IoK and veil and draw! - combo next turn with therapy naming fow and not having it in hand.
- you can discard fow instead of discard and allow opp. to cast discard. and draw!
- veil is both reactively and proactive card
- t.seize+veil is the nuts

Veil is just great, It is infinitely better vs blue.decks and blue+black.decks than duress.

I just suggest you all to try this card, it is just amazing...
this is my base for reference:

// Lands
1 [U] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [A] Bayou
1 [RS] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [RAV] Swamp

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [M20] Veil of Summer
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize

you know side is just the taste of each - mine has a lot of side cards and just 2 c.therapy (because i love this card...) and likely 4 bouncers

any opinion is just wellcome.

Final Fortune

08-12-2019, 01:56 PM

I don't think Summer's Veil is worth Bayou and don't understand why people are playing with Badlands, let alone 2, without Island.

I'm on a stock list and am more or less happy with the consistency approach - 2xCabal Therapy is a hedge vs SBed counter spells.

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp

1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Grape Shot
1 Void Snare
1 Massacre
1 Pulverize
1 Echo of Eons
1 Past in Flames
1 Telemin Performance
4 Echoing Truth

I haven't been impressed with Mox Opal, Defense Grid and Hope of Ghirapor, all of them feel like they are win more cards.

Pelikanudo

08-12-2019, 03:21 PM

I am on holidays so I can elaborate:

I don't think Summer's Veil is worth Bayou
well, don't know If you tested it or not, but I played some games in base in diff. contexts and I feel amazing about this card. I'll expose some scenarios:

the 1st context was 1st build between Silence and Veil - the problem in here is that both play the same role - I mean you can not fight several angles, with playing only discard this problem is solved - but you cannot interact with the stack and is proactive, then we go to:
the 2nd context - playing both Discard and Veil the problem is solved you can fight several angles and reactively on the stack - wow - the common scenarios were: you play discard and see fow and discard - usually you should take the discard and wait for answer later for fow. the scneario that occurred to me and some like this were:

- opp. played IoK and discarded some key card and I the same to FoW on 1-2 turns - later on 3th turn I cantripped and saw veils (CT in hand) then snap into IoK - then veils resolved and won next turn with CT > FoW (not in hand) BS into win. This is just an example.

and don't understand why people are playing with Badlands, let alone 2, without Island.
Me neither... we at least are 0IslandInTES Men...

you are talking with a GoldLand lover man...
badlands - while not producing blue (thing I really hate) - provides all the colors you need in your deck except for 8 cards - I come from stable 12 blue producers (12 lands too from GP era) and I remember played with 8fetches with: 13 lands (2-2-1 no swamp still) and 14 (now with swamp). even with 2 swamps!! yes sorry (was because of wPreaux idea)...

there is a thing that I noted along the time playing TES - and you will agree with me - and is that Volcanic Island is the wost land in the deck (1st context build I played 1 VI...) I am not sure if it is worse than BL still - but contorting the manabase to accomodate to pulverize by playing 3 VI does not make sense to me at all.
I also think in the sequences about playing lands. Ex: If no other lands in hand other than fetch, then fetch to VI to ponder and dont want to see more VI.
I agree that most of the times when I want to ponder 1st turn the land will be VI or fetch to VI - even in my case that I play bayou I want more the VI than other land.
likely another cause I don't like having 3 VI is beeing surgicaled...
also while 2VI in opening hand is shit 1/1 VI BL is great

anyway - in my build maybe It makes more sense to play 3VI instead and 0BL.. really don't like so few blue producers (11 total!!! in other eras playing just 12lands had more chances...)... who knows... maybe next time I'll try like this and see how much I hate VI...

I'm on a stock list and am more or less happy with the consistency approach - 2xCabal Therapy is a hedge vs SBed counter spells.

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp

1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Grape Shot
1 Void Snare
1 Massacre
1 Pulverize
1 Echo of Eons
1 Past in Flames
1 Telemin Performance
4 Echoing Truth

the curious thing is that you moreless reach the same base as me post side (prior to VoS)...

lately I am noticing that I don't really side out vs blue.decks in general... or if I side out something is just 1 ponder or 2nd AN or 1 CM... it is sad but that's it, the other day for example I took to the torunament CoF... now with Veil it is even more funny because really you have all the tools maindeck... I've ALWAYS played at its minimum 3 CT between main and side. and vs blue.decks in general I bring 2 CT and take out - depend on the feeling - 1CM and disrupt to bring them all - at its simplest I play 2nd games with 9 disruption - my latest iteration was: 1st games: 4TS 4VoS To: 3TS 4VoS 2CT (1TS to side) - and that's it - and really don't know even if it is neccesary or not...

I am sure you have your reasons but I would play 4TS 2D 2CT. My latest iteration was (prior to VoS): 4TS 3D 2AN and 3CT in side. My next approach would have been to bring 3CT instead of 3D and have more space to really tough match ups - mean TriniAndChalice decks.

I haven't been impressed with Mox Opal, Defense Grid and Hope of Ghirapor, all of them feel like they are win more cards.

Me on the other side I've been quite impressed how people play things just because of the fact that other people play those things. I think people need to reach conclusions by their own - on the competitiveness aspect is better for them and - also is funnier.!

If you want I can share you my own take on a MOpal list! but it has paradoxical outcome! just a funny note: - because the other day talking witha friend I told about the list but was built long time ago and worked somehow - but now with Narset - the list got worse...

Final Fortune

08-12-2019, 03:50 PM

There are 3 Volcanic Islands for a number of reasons, while Underground Sea is a better land than Volcanic Island in a vacuum the deck can fetch a permanent Black source as opposed to a permanent Red or Blue source so Underground Sea is less critical even if it is more efficient. Furthermore the value of Volcanic Island increases game 2 compared to Underground Sea, because the deck needs to be able to Burning Wish for Pulverize and Voidsnare as well as support Echoing Truths instead of discards vs hate or 3 Empty the Warrens vs Islands. 3 Volcanic Islands means you'll draw a Volcanic Island more than any other land in your opening hand, and it's the "bait" land you hang out there for Wasteland to cantrip while your fetchlands shuffle and look for an Underground Sea or Swamp. You also have to take into consideration that imprinting Chrome Mox for Black is a lot easier than it is for Red, you'll hit more T1 Empty the Warrens if you're getting your Red from Volcanic Island instead of off Chrome Mox.

In my mind, the whole deck runs off Swamp and Volcanic Islands with Underground Sea being kind of a luxury. The 3/3 Thoughtseize/Duress split is just to reduce the average damage taken from casting Thoughtseize, I'm sure you could play the 4/2/2 split of Thoughtseize/Duress/Cabal Therapy just as well tho'.

Bryant Cook

08-13-2019, 09:07 AM

https://theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-4c-snow-control/

StonedforgeMystic

08-13-2019, 09:16 PM

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-08-13-19/

Final Fortune

08-18-2019, 02:58 AM

Mire in Madness looks like a solid SB option, decent Wish target vs Leyline of Sanctity and Counterbalance in black.

Bryant Cook

08-22-2019, 12:40 PM

https://twitter.com/mtgtheepicstorm/status/1164304385620529152

Vivarus

08-27-2019, 12:00 AM

Lost track of what hate everyone else is playing these days? Me too! Let's take a look!

https://theepicstorm.com/adapting-to-modern-horizons-and-m20/

whiskeyhughes

08-30-2019, 11:27 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest TIM COLLETTI (TCSIRONMAIDEN)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-32/

StonedforgeMystic

08-31-2019, 08:39 AM

new video!

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-08-30-19/

StonedforgeMystic

09-07-2019, 02:11 AM

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-09-06-19/

Bryant Cook

09-08-2019, 06:28 PM

Final Fortune

09-15-2019, 08:07 AM

Anybody think that W Canonist Enchantmentbis worthkeeping a wishable answer to Enchantments in the board as a standard? I think at W it's too fast for Thoughtseize andbEchoing Truth is likely to get over worked.

As an aside, has any body tried cutting Rite of Flame from the deck and just using Mox Opals instead? Average CC goes down overall and Metalcraft is manageable with cantrips piecing it together for a T2? I have also been really impressed by Wishclaw Talisman, I boarded an Infernal Tutor and a Duress (7 discard with a 3/4 split) and MDed 2 copies as both a stop gap and an enabler, the card is no joke at all.

I have a strong suspicion that the 2 basic manabase and Wishcla Talisman is worth taking a hard look at for slower but more mana efficient/safe set ups. Interesting to tinker with the list again fwiw.

Pelikanudo

09-16-2019, 02:36 PM

Anybody think that W Canonist Enchantmentbis worthkeeping a wishable answer to Enchantments in the board as a standard? I think at W it's too fast for Thoughtseize andbEchoing Truth is likely to get over worked.

waited for that, but am really busy- i'l answer... for me this card - not for blue - but for D&T is a shit of a hell - really dont know how much this will incrment their 2nd and 3rd games vs us... really sad. For me it will be a Void snare again for sure - nothing else I think it is needed.
I assume that non U only will play this so I think CoV side is a must 2/3 as minimum.

As an aside, has any body tried cutting Rite of Flame from the deck and just using Mox Opals instead? Average CC goes down overall and Metalcraft is manageable with cantrips piecing it together for a T2? I have also been really impressed by Wishclaw Talisman, I boarded an Infernal Tutor and a Duress (7 discard with a 3/4 split) and MDed 2 copies as both a stop gap and an enabler, the card is no joke at all.

yeah i tried that long time ago. - this is the most logical approach and remember Bhamut agreed - just take all RoF and put in opals - I for example tended to vault ofwhispers and thinks like that becuase it was not a guarrantied manasource - thing i disliked - even i played the card in GP era and disliked... but hey WC is artifact!

I have a strong suspicion that the 2 basic manabase and Wishcla Talisman is worth taking a hard look at for slower but more mana efficient/safe set ups. Interesting to tinker with the list again fwiw.

yeah WC deserves testing... but I would not take out IT at all. my first feeling is: maybe BW can decrease the number? maybe the card is the substitute of BW? maybe a new deck based on AN will raise UB only? Ihave a POutcome deck and sure I'll play this. maybe now it is time to look at MOpal again...

What I completely do know is that I'll inclde 1 in my modern Tezz deck!

EDIT: Sorry, my first take:

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 ToA

4 Infernal Tutor
4 WC
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
3 Mox Opal
2 CRit
1 CoV

4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 VoW
???

being conservative In my list I maybe just swamp 8th discard by 1WC and that's it, but this deserves test as sparate stuff. I do know:
- this card is not for PiF but AN.
- MOpal now can be a thing now.
- Is this better than BW? I do love BW but BW does gets you AN by 2/1 or 3.
- you incrment your 2nd turn wins with this card mainly.

Final Fortune

09-21-2019, 05:05 AM

waited for that, but am really busy- i'l answer... for me this card - not for blue - but for D&T is a shit of a hell - really dont know how much this will incrment their 2nd and 3rd games vs us... really sad. For me it will be a Void snare again for sure - nothing else I think it is needed.
I assume that non U only will play this so I think CoV side is a must 2/3 as minimum.

yeah i tried that long time ago. - this is the most logical approach and remember Bhamut agreed - just take all RoF and put in opals - I for example tended to vault ofwhispers and thinks like that becuase it was not a guarrantied manasource - thing i disliked - even i played the card in GP era and disliked... but hey WC is artifact!

yeah WC deserves testing... but I would not take out IT at all. my first feeling is: maybe BW can decrease the number? maybe the card is the substitute of BW? maybe a new deck based on AN will raise UB only? Ihave a POutcome deck and sure I'll play this. maybe now it is time to look at MOpal again...

What I completely do know is that I'll inclde 1 in my modern Tezz deck!

EDIT: Sorry, my first take:

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 ToA

4 Infernal Tutor
4 WC
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
3 Mox Opal
2 CRit
1 CoV

4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 VoW
???

being conservative In my list I maybe just swamp 8th discard by 1WC and that's it, but this deserves test as sparate stuff. I do know:
- this card is not for PiF but AN.
- MOpal now can be a thing now.
- Is this better than BW? I do love BW but BW does gets you AN by 2/1 or 3.
- you incrment your 2nd turn wins with this card mainly.

I have the same deck more or less, there's no reason to use Cabal Ritual considering Chrome Mox, Mox Opal and Wishclaw Talisman do not go to the graveyard. I have 7 discard, 14 land and 4x of all the artifacts.

ESG

09-21-2019, 10:09 PM

Finished 10th in the Legacy Format Playoff today, you can check out my matches here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qptSlgXkc4w&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6NtvlVKKkC0Nli4Dw8dP8P0i

This is belated feedback, but I enjoyed watching these matches. I don't typically play Storm, so it's nice to see the matchups from the other side. The overlays are attractive, the branding is strong, and the way you isolated yourself from what I assume was a full-room video recording is a nice touch. High-quality content.

Izor

09-22-2019, 07:34 AM

Jesus, that Deafening Silence is a massive beating... cheaper, better effect than Canonist, and a million times harder to remove.

It's luckily a pure sideboard card, so I don't think I'll add a Vapor Snare for it. This does definitely tilt me towards playing more Chains/Echoing Truths over things like Crash or Hurkyl's Recall again.

I'd expect that to be a 1-of in every white deck's sideboard and a 2-3-of in DnT, Humans and Maverick. Even UW decks playing lots of non-creature spells themselves will easily hide behind this with counter spells.

This also makes Hope of Ghirapur even better I suppose.

Also, I love the idea of combining Wishclaw Talisman with a 1-of Hurkyl's Recall for games 2 and 3 against Chalice/Artifact decks. In general its synergy with bounce spells is pretty great.

whiskeyhughes

09-27-2019, 08:57 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest JOSH BINGAMAN (BEANAMAN)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-33/

Final Fortune

09-28-2019, 09:03 AM

@Izor, I would consider Consign/Oblivion over Pulverize at this point, it consolidates MD artifact removal and SB enchanment removal as well as elimates any need for a 3rd /r producing land. I think between Deafening Silence and Leyline of Sanctity Enchantment removal is warranted now.

Bryant Cook

09-29-2019, 05:24 PM

I played sort of poorly today but was lucky enough to make top 8 of the Legacy Challenge. You can view my matches here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98KViJLm0Fc&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6NtX7E6D3bdELMma-Z7qad3E

StonedforgeMystic

09-29-2019, 08:48 PM

New video!

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-09-06-19-2/

Pelikanudo

10-04-2019, 05:33 PM

I have the same deck more or less, there's no reason to use Cabal Ritual considering Chrome Mox, Mox Opal and Wishclaw Talisman do not go to the graveyard. I have 7 discard, 14 land and 4x of all the artifacts.

hi!

yeah,

I agree CR is shit and likely don't makes sense... I thoght maybe 1 of. that list was made in 1 min!

but I feel 1 CoV should be in the base. - we are used to have BW to fix issues. I really don't know how much speed the deck gained so maybe it is not needed...

I feel also that you can reduce the number of lands because of MOPal maybe to 13. (14 is a lot even if you consider MOpal 0.5 land - but maye this is an error.)

really don't know about having Artifcat lands or not in base...

my main concerns are:
- likely AN should be played as a 2 Of.
1- drawing it and having LED to fech for 2nd AN is nice also with MOpal really don't mind to have a 2nd and is a super good draw!
2- If beeing discarded then shit!

- don't know about EtW - in my mind it acts also as a 2nd kill in base (+ Tendrils) for the same reason as 2nd AN. - not beeing discarded or able to play under LED to fetch if in hand.
1- maybe play a 2nd Tendrils?
2- does not go well if EtW is casted and then pass the turn
- CoV even if it is dead sometime has great sinergy with WC

so v2.1:

2 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 ToA

4 Infernal Tutor
4 WC
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
1 CoV

4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island

side:
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 B.W.
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Hope O Ghirapur
1 ToA

v2.1: changed manabase to accomodate basics and added hipothtical side. HoG seems to be an nonbo here...

???

all theory

please share your list - I plan to play some games this weekend so I can test one or other.
I really didn't make any test yet, but I am happy to brew something new!

what I don't know is what to put in the side...

EDIT: will this be the best Ad Nauseam Deck?
EDIT2: proposed side v2.1

Final Fortune

10-05-2019, 05:06 PM

hi!

yeah,

I agree CR is shit and likely don't makes sense... I thoght maybe 1 of. that list was made in 1 min!

but I feel 1 CoV should be in the base. - we are used to have BW to fix issues. I really don't know how much speed the deck gained so maybe it is not needed...

I feel also that you can reduce the number of lands because of MOPal maybe to 13. (14 is a lot even if you consider MOpal 0.5 land - but maye this is an error.)

really don't know about having Artifcat lands or not in base...

my main concerns are:
- likely AN should be played as a 2 Of.
1- drawing it and having LED to fech for 2nd AN is nice also with MOpal really don't mind to have a 2nd and is a super good draw!
2- If beeing discarded then shit!

- don't know about EtW - in my mind it acts also as a 2nd kill in base (+ Tendrils) for the same reason as 2nd AN. - not beeing discarded or able to play under LED to fetch if in hand.
1- maybe play a 2nd Tendrils?
2- does not go well if EtW is casted and then pass the turn
- CoV even if it is dead sometime has great sinergy with WC

so v2.1:

2 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 ToA

4 Infernal Tutor
4 WC
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
1 CoV

4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island

side:
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 B.W.
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Hope O Ghirapur
1 ToA

v2.1: changed manabase to accomodate basics and added hipothtical side. HoG seems to be an nonbo here...

???

all theory

please share your list - I plan to play some games this weekend so I can test one or other.
I really didn't make any test yet, but I am happy to brew something new!

what I don't know is what to put in the side...

EDIT: will this be the best Ad Nauseam Deck?
EDIT2: proposed side v2.1

I think your list is ok, the Chain of Vapor should probably be another discard for game 1 as there isn't much in the meta you need to have the bounce for game 1. It's kind of an odd deck, a little slower than TES but a lot faster than ANT fwiw. Cutting Red and having the stability of two basics might make all of that worth it tho', the ability for Wishclaw to fetch LED with an Infernal Tutor in hand is also kind of bonkers good.

notkevin

10-06-2019, 02:05 AM

I think your list is ok, the Chain of Vapor should probably be another discard for game 1 as there isn't much in the meta you need to have the bounce for game 1. It's kind of an odd deck, a little slower than TES but a lot faster than ANT fwiw. Cutting Red and having the stability of two basics might make all of that worth it tho', the ability for Wishclaw to fetch LED with an Infernal Tutor in hand is also kind of bonkers good.

Just a quick thing - I agree with you that discard's likely better against most decks g1 over Chain, but Chain can allow for some trickier plays with Talisman by bouncing it after wishing, making it roughly a diabolic tutor with buyback :)

whiskeyhughes

11-01-2019, 08:11 PM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest MAX CARINI (wonderPreaux)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-34/

StonedforgeMystic

11-03-2019, 06:38 PM

https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-landon-sworts-11-03-19/

New video is up. Preordain is a great Magic card!

whiskeyhughes

11-29-2019, 10:03 PM

New TES Content

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live on the new website! This month's article features special guest FREDERIK PAPE! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-35/

Also check out the most recent "Through the Looking Glass" and "Matchup mulligan"!

https://www.theepicstorm.com/through-the-looking-glass-delver-with-michael-lewis/

https://www.theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-rug-delver-ii/

Bryant Cook

12-03-2019, 07:29 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjgtUz3PgkM

Vivarus

12-10-2019, 01:36 AM

We have a brand new deck list at the website!

Come take a look!

https://www.theepicstorm.com/the-new-epic-storm/

KobeBryan

12-10-2019, 03:23 PM

We have a brand new deck list at the website!

Come take a look!

https://www.theepicstorm.com/the-new-epic-storm/

Wow...you are foolish if you do not play veil in this deck now. Its so overpowered from discard and from counters.

Final Fortune

12-11-2019, 12:40 PM

Wow...you are foolish if you do not play veil in this deck now. Its so overpowered from discard and from counters.

I wouldn't go that far, 4 colours is difficult to support and Wishclaw over Infernal is a turn slower. The deck dropped Silence for a reason, and even tho' Veil is better it's not by that much.

I do really like Crash tho', that card is legit.

KobeBryan

12-11-2019, 02:02 PM

I wouldn't go that far, 4 colours is difficult to support and Wishclaw over Infernal is a turn slower. The deck dropped Silence for a reason, and even tho' Veil is better it's not by that much.

I do really like Crash tho', that card is legit.

There was this kid that played silence and beat this 20 something year old with TES against RUG...that was legit bro

anyways, veil blocks discard and then cantrips itself against discard. This is very important.

ESG

12-11-2019, 10:40 PM

There was this kid that played silence and beat this 20 something year old with TES against RUG...that was legit bro.

Bant, not RUG. One of my favorite matches ever streamed, from the early days of streaming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qwm904bq3s

Also, AJ posts here now as GeneralSmallChild, although it's been a while. He's also on theepicstorm.com.

Bryant Cook

12-12-2019, 12:17 AM

Took a deep dive on my Storm data, come check out my findings!
https://www.theepicstorm.com/using-the-epic-storm-data/

ThomasDowd

12-12-2019, 10:18 PM

Wow...you are foolish if you do not play veil in this deck now. Its so overpowered from discard and from counters.

I think the new version does? It's just they put the new one on the left and the old one on the right which imo is a design mistake. It broke my brain at first trying to process which one was which. It doesn't help things that 5 and 3 have similar shapes at a glance. And also why was .4 skipped?

I dunno, man, fucking numbers, how do they work, nobody knows.

Bryant Cook

12-20-2019, 12:14 AM

The annual "Deck Showcase" is live! It now includes four formats!

Legacy — https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-2019-deck-showcase/
Modern — https://www.theepicstorm.com/modern-ur-storm-2019-deck-showcase/
Vintage — https://www.theepicstorm.com/vintage-po-storm-2019-deck-showcase/
EDH — https://www.theepicstorm.com/godo-2019-deck-showcase/

Pelikanudo

12-28-2019, 06:16 AM

I wouldn't go that far, 4 colours is difficult to support and Wishclaw over Infernal is a turn slower. The deck dropped Silence for a reason, and even tho' Veil is better it's not by that much.

I do really like Crash tho', that card is legit.

Hi!

I'll share my latest experiences with the deck...

I've been trying several lists from WT era, the first the one posted with no BW and full discard, it worked very good and loved the synergy with CoV and also the typical play of landing a WT and take tendrils at some point...

then I saw the latest Build with BW and EoE and really missed that engine in the new build, I have torecognize IT IS a good idea... sure the dsruption package needed to change but I knew sooner or later I was going to play Veils as I was playing the card before WT.... really did't know why the card is not played along storm... it is so powerfull. and have to say that the latest build is great!

NOTE: F.F and me were the 1st 2 guys who implemented the WT+fullOpals (me+CoV) main package so I feel we contributed to this build. (We Are advanced and you know it!). Sure I recognize I missed the EoE line... but sure sooner or later will reach the same conclusions.... no much time for brewing...

so well looking forward...
- I really like the WT+Tendrils main synergy - so I am thinking in -1HoG=+2nd Tendrils in side.
- I am loving more and more Defense Grid as I am thinking in -2HoG = +2DG but really don't know.
- really don't know if it is correct to move the CoV to side for the RoF and put a Massacre in side, I conceived the CoV as a toolbox+Storm Engine, but in a non BW build - now with BW, I don't feel is neccesary at least for 1st games - and then have a Massacre in side, anyway, CoV served me very well along the games I played.
- really doesn't make sense to have a lonely RoF in side... it can be whatever other thing that feels stronger vs agro... likely I swap for a duress or like.
- what about putting an extirpate in side for WT? WT is sooo good men.

@F.F and others, any opnions, which is your latest build?
I 've been feeeling too strong with the new build, more than ever with any TES build, WT is just superb and the EoE engine is super strong.... but don't know if meta adapts and null rods sees play, then will wreck the deck. A note and is that I have another TES build but with no BW (+CoV+EoE+Tendrils base) which is very good, don't know if better than BW build likely it is, but you know... we all love BW card...(I feel that this is a matter of taste as I conceive IT superior to BW as storm engine)

anyway, I have to say congratulations to the Mr B.Cook and crew for this new build.... long time ago elapsed I don't agree on a TES build with those guys....!

happy new year to all TES crew!

EDIT: forgot, my v20.5 UB-TES list:

// Lands
1 [DPA] Island (3)
2 [JGC] Bloodstained Mire
1 [RS] Bayou
2 [EXP] Misty Rainforest
1 [M13] Swamp (1)
2 [A] Underground Sea
4 [EXP] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
1 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [MM2] Mox Opal
4 [ELD] Wishclaw Talisman
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [M20] Veil of Summer
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
3 [KLI] Defense Grid
1 [MH1] Echo of Eons
4 [MPR] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 2 [C16] Chain of Vapor
SB: 2 [DDF] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [10E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [FBP] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [MMA] Extirpate
SB: 1 [JU] Burning Wish
SB: 1 [NE] Massacre
SB: 2 [GK1] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [UL] Defense Grid

Bryant Cook

12-29-2019, 08:52 PM

Hey everyone!

I managed to top 8 the Legacy Challenge with The EPIC Storm v8.6 — You can see my matches here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrUbEUrkymk&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6NuD-XLduFpyIYeDjMbPGBiO

I have also finished updating the homepage with the latest decklists, resources, SB Guide, etc.

Enjoy!

KobeBryan

12-29-2019, 09:02 PM

whiskeyhughes

12-30-2019, 09:49 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live on the new "The EPIC Storm" website! This month's article features special guest STEFAN SCHÜTZ! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-36/

Bryant Cook

01-03-2020, 12:13 AM

https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-vs-ant-2020/

Final Fortune

01-03-2020, 06:50 AM

Hi!

I'll share my latest experiences with the deck...

I've been trying several lists from WT era, the first the one posted with no BW and full discard, it worked very good and loved the synergy with CoV and also the typical play of landing a WT and take tendrils at some point...

then I saw the latest Build with BW and EoE and really missed that engine in the new build, I have torecognize IT IS a good idea... sure the dsruption package needed to change but I knew sooner or later I was going to play Veils as I was playing the card before WT.... really did't know why the card is not played along storm... it is so powerfull. and have to say that the latest build is great!

NOTE: F.F and me were the 1st 2 guys who implemented the WT+fullOpals (me+CoV) main package so I feel we contributed to this build. (We Are advanced and you know it!). Sure I recognize I missed the EoE line... but sure sooner or later will reach the same conclusions.... no much time for brewing...

so well looking forward...
- I really like the WT+Tendrils main synergy - so I am thinking in -1HoG=+2nd Tendrils in side.
- I am loving more and more Defense Grid as I am thinking in -2HoG = +2DG but really don't know.
- really don't know if it is correct to move the CoV to side for the RoF and put a Massacre in side, I conceived the CoV as a toolbox+Storm Engine, but in a non BW build - now with BW, I don't feel is neccesary at least for 1st games - and then have a Massacre in side, anyway, CoV served me very well along the games I played.
- really doesn't make sense to have a lonely RoF in side... it can be whatever other thing that feels stronger vs agro... likely I swap for a duress or like.
- what about putting an extirpate in side for WT? WT is sooo good men.

@F.F and others, any opnions, which is your latest build?
I 've been feeeling too strong with the new build, more than ever with any TES build, WT is just superb and the EoE engine is super strong.... but don't know if meta adapts and null rods sees play, then will wreck the deck. A note and is that I have another TES build but with no BW (+CoV+EoE+Tendrils base) which is very good, don't know if better than BW build likely it is, but you know... we all love BW card...(I feel that this is a matter of taste as I conceive IT superior to BW as storm engine)

anyway, I have to say congratulations to the Mr B.Cook and crew for this new build.... long time ago elapsed I don't agree on a TES build with those guys....!

happy new year to all TES crew!

EDIT: forgot, my v20.5 UB-TES list:

// Lands
1 [DPA] Island (3)
2 [JGC] Bloodstained Mire
1 [RS] Bayou
2 [EXP] Misty Rainforest
1 [M13] Swamp (1)
2 [A] Underground Sea
4 [EXP] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
1 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [MM2] Mox Opal
4 [ELD] Wishclaw Talisman
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [M20] Veil of Summer
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
3 [KLI] Defense Grid
1 [MH1] Echo of Eons
4 [MPR] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 2 [C16] Chain of Vapor
SB: 2 [DDF] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [10E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [FBP] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [MMA] Extirpate
SB: 1 [JU] Burning Wish
SB: 1 [NE] Massacre
SB: 2 [GK1] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [UL] Defense Grid

I haven't been a real fan of the 4 color TES lists, because the manabase is very awkward between Veil of Summer, Bayou and a lack of black cards to imprint onto Chrome Mox. About the only recent changes I've made to TES is replacing 4 Echoing Truth and 2 Empty the Warrens with Crash and Rending Volley, as I find Bryant's recent list too slow for my liking.

I do have a UBR version of ANT with Wishclaw, it's similar to what Bryant is doing but it is an Infernal deck without the 2nd Ritual, Thoughtseize over Veil of Summer and a mizers Grapeshot and Chain of Vapor in the MD.

I think it's all viable, really depends on how you want to play vs Wasteland. Summer's Veil is overrated to me, I still think the best thing for TES would be a Red Orim's Chant.

Pelikanudo

01-03-2020, 10:23 AM

I haven't been a real fan of the 4 color TES lists, because the manabase is very awkward between Veil of Summer, Bayou and a lack of black cards to imprint onto Chrome Mox. About the only recent changes I've made to TES is replacing 4 Echoing Truth and 2 Empty the Warrens with Crash and Rending Volley, as I find Bryant's recent list too slow for my liking.

I do have a UBR version of ANT with Wishclaw, it's similar to what Bryant is doing but it is an Infernal deck without the 2nd Ritual, Thoughtseize over Veil of Summer and a mizers Grapeshot and Chain of Vapor in the MD.

I think it's all viable, really depends on how you want to play vs Wasteland. Summer's Veil is overrated to me, I still think the best thing for TES would be a Red Orim's Chant.

I dislike the loss of speed too, but somehow I was able to win some hatebears match ups...

Since the printing of VoS I've been an absolutly fan of the card - in my opinion the card is busted for storm (it sees play in Miracles and other control decks but in Storm is busted), even I recently noticed that with this card you can go through Chalice at 0... I will play 4 in all my future storm builds no matter what. even with DG makes a lethal combination even if opp has 3 mana available for FoW...

I was quite skeptical about the manabase too, but MOpal makes the things easier. sure I played very few match ups but those were fine...

I agree on CMox which has little cards to print on... the card still has its purposes I think.

the question I ask myself is:
- Really WT got better the deck? or just simply and plainly VoS got better the deck by itself alone (sure +EoE engine)? Sure I love WT, but is it better than IT? really? don't know. (as i play very few and usually win with whatever build i go, really don't know what is better than other... I just love all those new cards but also IT... in my mind is difficult to cut such a staple card...)
- I love also the EoE path and I am wondering if I can make it work with IT instead of WT. (likely not as you need to empty your hand+LED - did you try it???) IF this is possible then we could make a deck with IT+BW+EoE, some M.Opals, full CMoxen and obtain moreless the same speed as before. the thing is that WT can be LED and doesn't need to empty the hand as opp to IT... likely this will be the next try... something around this:

4 Burning Wish
1 Echo of Eons
4 Ponder
4 Rite of Flame
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Veil of Summer
4 Chrome Mox
3 Defense Grid
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Opal (maybe +1 and take out somethig??? I still don't feel too much love for this card...)
4 IT (maybe -1 and put +1 WT??? to let the 4th in side? - not likely)

1 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Final Fortune

01-03-2020, 05:59 PM

I dislike the loss of speed too, but somehow I was able to win some hatebears match ups...

Since the printing of VoS I've been an absolutly fan of the card - in my opinion the card is busted for storm (it sees play in Miracles and other control decks but in Storm is busted), even I recently noticed that with this card you can go through Chalice at 0... I will play 4 in all my future storm builds no matter what. even with DG makes a lethal combination even if opp has 3 mana available for FoW...

I was quite skeptical about the manabase too, but MOpal makes the things easier. sure I played very few match ups but those were fine...

I agree on CMox which has little cards to print on... the card still has its purposes I think.

the question I ask myself is:
- Really WT got better the deck? or just simply and plainly VoS got better the deck by itself alone (sure +EoE engine)? Sure I love WT, but is it better than IT? really? don't know. (as i play very few and usually win with whatever build i go, really don't know what is better than other... I just love all those new cards but also IT... in my mind is difficult to cut such a staple card...)
- I love also the EoE path and I am wondering if I can make it work with IT instead of WT. (likely not as you need to empty your hand+LED - did you try it???) IF this is possible then we could make a deck with IT+BW+EoE, some M.Opals, full CMoxen and obtain moreless the same speed as before. the thing is that WT can be LED and doesn't need to empty the hand as opp to IT... likely this will be the next try... something around this:

4 Burning Wish
1 Echo of Eons
4 Ponder
4 Rite of Flame
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Veil of Summer
4 Chrome Mox
3 Defense Grid
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Opal (maybe +1 and take out somethig??? I still don't feel too much love for this card...)
4 IT (maybe -1 and put +1 WT??? to let the 4th in side? - not likely)

1 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

I have a radical idea, what if Burning Wish, Rite of Flame, Defense Grid, Brainstorm and Ponder are what's holding the deck back? Can we play a B/g Storm deck that uses Vault of Whispers to enable Mox Opal and stream line the whole deck to use Night's Whispers and/or Tainted Pact?

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Echo of Eons
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Wishclaw Talisman
4 Nights Whispers
4 Veil of Summer
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Swamp

I think this has some potential just for how fast it can go off, straight black with a green splash for Veil of Summer and SB removal? We should be able to slam out Night's Whispers off of Vault opening and have a decent lategame.

It isn't optimal as it is, but why use Hope and Grid when a land can do the exact same thing two turns faster? Brainstorm isn't even necesarry for protecting your hand anymore, and Tainted Pact could probably be a shitty Ponder at least?

Pelikanudo

01-04-2020, 07:56 AM

I have a radical idea, what if Burning Wish, Rite of Flame, Defense Grid, Brainstorm and Ponder are what's holding the deck back? Can we play a B/g Storm deck that uses Vault of Whispers to enable Mox Opal and stream line the whole deck to use Night's Whispers and/or Tainted Pact?

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Echo of Eons
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Wishclaw Talisman
4 Nights Whispers
4 Veil of Summer
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Swamp

I think this has some potential just for how fast it can go off, straight black with a green splash for Veil of Summer and SB removal? We should be able to slam out Night's Whispers off of Vault opening and have a decent lategame.

It isn't optimal as it is, but why use Hope and Grid when a land can do the exact same thing two turns faster? Brainstorm isn't even necesarry for protecting your hand anymore, and Tainted Pact could probably be a shitty Ponder at least?

I am going to post my P.Outcome deck (obsolete) just for you to have an idea.
the main goal I tried was to make opal good in the first 2 turns and really played full of artifact lands - the deck long time ago wrked somehow and really didn't need lot of dsruption - the deck was quite evolved but I just stopped to play it some time ago... there it goes:

the problem that and below deck has is of course:
- even more problems vs wastelands and less consistency because of no good cantrips.
- in deed leg. is a format where you need to play good cards and those decks contains not good cards - N.Whispers/TCast/Lands
- below really doesnt need BStorm and has more gas
- below doesn have prot. as the idea is just generate card advantage by playing spells so really doesn't need it as cards just need to be countered or opp.will loose...
- even the deck has as many artifacts as poss. still wasn't able to make good MOpal i first turns... sadly...

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [6E] City of Brass
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers

// Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [KLD] Paradoxical Outcome
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
4 [JGC] Burning Wish
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [FD] Night's Whisper
4 [MI] Dark Ritual
4 [M11] Preordain

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 2 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [C15] Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [AKH] By Force
SB: 3 [UL] Defense Grid
SB: 1 [JGC] Bribery
SB: 1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
SB: 1 [C13] Toxic Deluge

- when I saw WT I just tried weird things such as having total 12 tutors and take out BS or Ponder or disruption, but don't know...
1. maybe having the same idea of just throwing good threats to be countered withouth any disruption can work - but the unique threat that allow this is PO, the rest just need protection before... as the payoff is huge generally.

- I've seen another new card for storm - like PiF, but for 2 mana which make me again to reconsider TES again... please Wizards stop to create so many sorm cards in a such brief period of time!!!, just wait some months....
1. regarding this new card. do you find it good for Storm? maybe need to go back to IT again?
2. I think the card has potential. and I believe in Old TES (IT+BW+no MOpal) 1 in base should be included at least. don't know in new TES is worth...
3. A scenario:

a) in GY there is fetch, ponder, Veil, TSeize.
you play Petal, DR, LED, IT -> Underworld Breach (UB from nw on) lets say there is 3 mana available. (IT->UB is just 4 mana as opp to IT->AN which is 7 so having 3 left is a good comparison), 3 already +3 from LED +2 from DR means 8 total mana to just play IT->BW->Tendrils. For this you need 9cards in GY to play 3 spells, so in this scenario we are missing 3 cards only in GY, BUT you can trade 3cardsin GY for +2/+3mana!

I think this demonstrates the high potential it has in TES - BUT TES withouth MOpal neither WT neither DGRid... there it goes new TES list:

// Lands
1 [U] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [A] Bayou
1 [RS] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [RAV] Swamp (4)

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [M20] Veil of Summer
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 Underworld Breach

don't know...

Final Fortune

01-04-2020, 10:42 AM

Vivarus

01-06-2020, 02:12 PM

I've had a couple of thoughts on Underworld Breach. It's kinda similar to some busted cards, but has a very high cost to it.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/card-review-underworld-breach/

Pelikanudo

01-09-2020, 04:55 PM

I haven't tested Underworld Breach, it's a cheaper Ill Gotten Gains that doesn't let your opponent counter you in theory but in practice I doubt you'll have 8 cards in your graveyard to recast two spells even.

I do think the card is not bad and seems playable in theory and in my opinion, in old TES you play 16 100% replaceable cards and almost all cards in the deck go to GY, so in 3rd/4rh turn you are in a perfect position to have around 6to8 cards.

I think the card is a better pif for midTolate game in TES, which is something old TES had problems with. if other versions of TES played pif main, I don't see a reason to not to play this card, as I see this far superior in old TES than pif for the simple reason that a) is cheaper and b)returns LED (I never played pif in base anyway always seems bad...)

the card is also never dead if drawn as it nets you +1mana if LED in hand or +1storm if DR in hand or at its worst is a regrowth...

don't know not tested yet but i am always too optimistic you know...
anyway I see a limitation with this as new tes has much less cards that don't go to GY... and I am really happy with those opals , talismans and DG...

too many things to brew on the Heap!

Final Fortune

01-20-2020, 06:14 PM

I do think the card is not bad and seems playable in theory and in my opinion, in old TES you play 16 100% replaceable cards and almost all cards in the deck go to GY, so in 3rd/4rh turn you are in a perfect position to have around 6to8 cards.

I think the card is a better pif for midTolate game in TES, which is something old TES had problems with. if other versions of TES played pif main, I don't see a reason to not to play this card, as I see this far superior in old TES than pif for the simple reason that a) is cheaper and b)returns LED (I never played pif in base anyway always seems bad...)

the card is also never dead if drawn as it nets you +1mana if LED in hand or +1storm if DR in hand or at its worst is a regrowth...

don't know not tested yet but i am always too optimistic you know...
anyway I see a limitation with this as new tes has much less cards that don't go to GY... and I am really happy with those opals , talismans and DG...

too many things to brew on the Heap!

Was messing around with a couple of different lists and had some off the wall ideas for cards to support Mox Opal, what do you think of Helm of Awakening replacing Rite of Flame (Jet Medallion could also work in a non Red list)?

Pelikanudo

01-21-2020, 03:26 PM

Was messing around with a couple of different lists and had some off the wall ideas for cards to support Mox Opal, what do you think of Helm of Awakening replacing Rite of Flame (Jet Medallion could also work in a non Red list)?

the "illusion" I've always had with MOpal is to make it work in a high percentage in the 1to3 first turns and I stopped that illusion, uniquely if something like Mishras Buable but drawing the same turn is printed then we have a chance, which does not mean MOpal is bad. but we need to assume that it is not a Mox, new TES has lost speed - it is true - but WCT+MOpal+Veil+Grid+EoE is good stuff even if it is slower.

I would not say HoA is bad because is simetric - as in leg you play efficient spells that dont get better with HoA curiously..., the problem I see with those kind of effects is that usually are not +1+n mana the combo turn. and the other con is that do not provide color mana. I would play instead Grim Monolith, which for sure is a mana card to have in mind in New TES too and at least +1 the combo turn or +3 next ones.

next thing I intend to play is the ybrid I posted with the ESG - but likely just 1 time as I like playing BWish...
and next likely an hybrid with the UBreach but withouth WCT.

did you hear Super Bryant Cooked R&D TES Super Innovators Group !! (was this their name?) I want to see lists also apart of CoV/Opal/WCT also containing Grim Monolith! I dare you. Joke.

please share your good stuff good FFortune!

I miss my lovely Lemnear, hope he is doing well!

Final Fortune

01-23-2020, 10:03 AM

I agree, Mox Opal, as it is, requires a lot of set up from cantrips and other artifact enablers before it's an actual mox - if Sensei's Divining Top were still around, it would be another matter. The deck loses too much speed and resiliency for my liking, I think Mox Opal, Wishclaw Talisman and Summer's Veil are better left to UBG ANT fwiw.

whiskeyhughes

01-31-2020, 01:05 PM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest ETHAN FORMICHELLA (MONKEYSCANTCRY)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-37/

StonedforgeMystic

02-04-2020, 10:33 AM

New TTLG

https://www.theepicstorm.com/through-the-looking-glass-golgari-depths-with-tom-hepp/

Bryant Cook

02-05-2020, 12:04 AM

Report from this weekend:
https://www.theepicstorm.com/leaving-a-legacy-5k-02-01-2020-3rd-place/

Patrunkenphat7

02-08-2020, 09:57 PM

Report from this weekend:
https://www.theepicstorm.com/leaving-a-legacy-5k-02-01-2020-3rd-place/

I miss The Eternal Glory Podcast :(

Plague Sliver

02-10-2020, 05:42 PM

I miss The Eternal Glory Podcast :(

It was fun while it lasted.

Bryant Cook

02-18-2020, 11:06 AM

https://www.theepicstorm.com/through-the-looking-glass-jeskai-breach-with-stefan-schutz/

Bryant Cook

02-19-2020, 01:19 AM

https://twitter.com/BryantACook/status/1230010735696236544

JackaBo

02-19-2020, 05:05 AM

Nice to see the deck keep putting up results! I like that we cut the fourth opal. I got my third comming in the Mail.

whiskeyhughes

02-28-2020, 10:10 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest ALLEN YEE (ROCKMAN000)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-38/

Bryant Cook

03-12-2020, 09:07 AM

https://www.theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-eldrazi-ramp/

Bryant Cook

03-21-2020, 06:31 PM

https://www.theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-bryant-cook-03-21-20/

Bryant Cook

03-23-2020, 10:08 PM

I normally play Legacy locals on Monday nights, had the itch, decided to record a league:
https://www.theepicstorm.com/legacy-league-bryant-cook-03-23-20/

whiskeyhughes

03-31-2020, 02:02 PM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring Storm expert ANURAAG DAS (Anzid)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-39/

Patrunkenphat7

04-06-2020, 02:43 PM

This deck seems incredibly well-positioned right now.

Vivarus

04-14-2020, 11:50 AM

New Card! It's probably pretty good and companion is pretty interesting.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/card-review-lurrus-of-the-dream-den/

(Does anyone read this thread anymore?)

Miscanthus

04-14-2020, 12:08 PM

(Does anyone read this thread anymore?)

Yes!!

Final Fortune

04-14-2020, 12:42 PM

notkevin

04-14-2020, 01:36 PM

New Card! It's probably pretty good and companion is pretty interesting.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/card-review-lurrus-of-the-dream-den/

(Does anyone read this thread anymore?)

I also do :)

I do, personally I think Zirda looks interesting, Grim Monolith is an already fringe playable card that fits into Belcher. If anything the companions are just great Force of Will fodder and make the opponent keep spot removal in their decks, so the biggest upside of these cards isn't even necessarily casting them.

Agreed that a big win of companions for us is the secret mode of never planning on casting it - it might make hand disruption better g1 as their kept hands may be clunkier than usual.

I am pretty sure this is getting banned in Legacy along with that 2U draw 2 cards sorcery, free resources don't fair wellwhen it comes to the ban list.

Just to confirm, are you thinking of Of One Mind (https://scryfall.com/card/iko/60/of-one-mind), the one that becomes U: draw 2 if you have a Human and a non-Human? While I think the card is definitely strong (and feels like a shoo-in for any Young Peezy decks), it doesn't strike me as something ban-worthy; needing 2 creatures on the battlefield isn't all that easy with the abundance of removal available in the format, and I think pretty much everyone would agree that Faithless and Thoughtcast (probably the closest analogues, being 1-mana draw-2s with some deckbuilding constraints) aren't close to being ban-worthy.

That being said, I'm also a bit apprehensive about companion staying long-term in legacy; I'm sure most of them will be fine (the banned-in-commander Lutri is certainly too low power-level _and_ weakens decks too much to be viable), but the very obvious power bump of "yeah some players can start with an extra un-discard-able card in hand" feels really risky, especially when WoTC's rather clearly embraced the idea of more powerful Standards at the cost of older formats.

Reeplcheep

04-14-2020, 07:03 PM

I am pretty sure this is getting banned in Legacy along with that 2U draw 2 cards sorcery, free resources don't fair wellwhen it comes to the ban list.

I don't think the 2U draw 2 is getting banned seeing thoughtcast is unplayed.

Final Fortune

04-15-2020, 02:52 AM

I don't think the 2U draw 2 is getting banned seeing thoughtcast is unplayed.

Thoughtcast isn't comparable, it takes a whole deck to cast it at all where Of One Mind gets enabled with Noble Hierarch and recurred with Snapcaster Mage. U for 2 cards is broken, and 2U for 2 cards is already borderline playable. I think it's closer to that U for 2 Delve card than people realize.

notkevin

04-15-2020, 03:19 AM

Thoughtcast isn't comparable, it takes a whole deck to cast it at all where Of One Mind gets enabled with Noble Hierarch and recurred with Snapcaster Mage. U for 2 cards is broken, and 2U for 2 cards is already borderline playable. I think it's closer to that U for 2 Delve card than people realize.

Just to ensure I'm not missing something, how does Of One Mind get enabled with just a Noble? The cost reduction requirement requires both a Human creature (which Noble is) and a non-Human creature (which Noble isn't; although it certainly has non-Human creature types, it's not a non-Human creature, just like how Hogaak can't be Terror-ed because it's somehow a non-black creature).

I'd also argue that in our format, 2U draw 2 isn't really borderline playable, given how many 2-mana draw 2s are rarely played; Accumulated Knowledge, Predict, Night's Whisper, and Chart a Course all have seen some play in the past, but basically aren't played anymore. I agree that each had a hoop, but I'd argue that their hoops are smaller than Of One Mind's needing 2 different creatures on the battlefield (and rather importantly for AK and Predict, sorcery speed weakens the effect significantly in control shells).

But I agree that it's certainly a card to keep an eye on; U for draw 2 is certainly powerful, and it's possible that the hoops are smaller to jump through than people are currently giving it credit for (apparently the UR Delver discord has largely dismissed it despite its clear synergy with Young Pyromancer, which I found extremely surprising). Time will tell :)

Final Fortune

04-15-2020, 06:58 AM

Just to ensure I'm not missing something, how does Of One Mind get enabled with just a Noble? The cost reduction requirement requires both a Human creature (which Noble is) and a non-Human creature (which Noble isn't; although it certainly has non-Human creature types, it's not a non-Human creature, just like how Hogaak can't be Terror-ed because it's somehow a non-black creature).

I'd also argue that in our format, 2U draw 2 isn't really borderline playable, given how many 2-mana draw 2s are rarely played; Accumulated Knowledge, Predict, Night's Whisper, and Chart a Course all have seen some play in the past, but basically aren't played anymore. I agree that each had a hoop, but I'd argue that their hoops are smaller than Of One Mind's needing 2 different creatures on the battlefield (and rather importantly for AK and Predict, sorcery speed weakens the effect significantly in control shells).

But I agree that it's certainly a card to keep an eye on; U for draw 2 is certainly powerful, and it's possible that the hoops are smaller to jump through than people are currently giving it credit for (apparently the UR Delver discord has largely dismissed it despite its clear synergy with Young Pyromancer, which I found extremely surprising). Time will tell :)

Enable in the sense that it's one human that you can build your entire aggro-control deck around, between Noble Hierarch and Green Sun's Zenith it seems like a shoe in for BANT because you can play Hierarch and then just fetch for Arbor, reach for Vivarus or play Goyf and Draw 2.

Another interesting thought, Cabal Therapy just got a lot better in Storm because now every deck has a drop on 3 or 2 with Lotus Petal. Shit, there are going to be so many must counter situations between recurring Petal and getting in a free Therapy, this thing screams for Force of Will.

Bryant Cook

04-17-2020, 09:06 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOXbDE_1Vwo

Lurrus TES League

FTW

04-18-2020, 10:31 AM

Lurrus looks really strong for such low opportunity cost. Who knew the path to natural storm kills was turning sideways?

Imagine if this was in print before they banned Breach. "crack LED for my companion, replay Underworld Breach and win". Bonus Sevinne's Reclamation from the Command Zone.

Round 4 G2 vs Turbo Depths:
What do you think about Wish for Echo (2 floating) over the 10 Goblins? Echo also lets you play Lurus in between, Empty doesn't. Even if you whiff, you have a full grip with Lurrus in play and mulliganned their hand, instead of gambling 10 Goblins on the draw races a hand they chose to keep. Having Lurrus must change the odds on the Wish lines.

Bryant Cook

04-18-2020, 03:09 PM

Bryant Cook

04-19-2020, 07:11 PM

Two copies of TES made the top 8 of the Legacy Challenge today! You can watch my matches here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBqAHcAb6pQ&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6Ns5HLNatjetuZJzSQ92rEBN

Bryant Cook

04-23-2020, 08:28 AM

Hope you wanted more Doomsday content... https://www.theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-doomsday/

whiskeyhughes

04-30-2020, 12:39 PM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring ANTHONY LAVERDE (AIGIS)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-40/

Bryant Cook

05-03-2020, 08:43 PM

Made it to the finals of the Legacy challenge! Didn't quite get there but second place is still a solid day. My matches were honestly insane — you can catch them here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2Bv_NlSo6NuubfUZUEQeC-TzSHNGfc_z

Izor

05-04-2020, 09:12 PM

Bryant Cook

05-06-2020, 10:24 AM

Just finished watching the vods. Those were indeed some incredible matches, congrats on the finish!

The MD Tendrils put in tons of work it seems. I've been liking it as well so far, though I've also been worrying about the strength of my Ad Nauseams with a 6 and a 4 in the deck... I've actually been testing cutting the MD Echo and putting the Chain back in. I'm aware of what I'm losing out on, but the Ad Nauseams are very strong now. The best I've ever seen from any Storm variant, in fact. And with Chain and Lurrus there is a decently reliable low-life late game kill from Claw (Claw for Chain, generate storm bouncing Moxen and Claw plus Lurrus shenanigans, then recast Claw into Tendrils).

Any thoughts on that?

I can't say that I like these changes, cutting a Storm engine for a bounce spell are not one in the same but feel free to continue testing it and prove me wrong. If you watch the videos, you see I actually use the main deck Echo of Eons quite a bit. I believe you may have some tunnel vision on Ad Nauseam when it isn't required as much recently.

Bryant Cook

05-12-2020, 08:36 AM

https://www.theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-grixis-delver-ii/

Bryant Cook

05-17-2020, 10:33 PM

An instructional guide for The EPIC Storm is now live! https://www.theepicstorm.com/deck-resources/beginners-guide-to-tes/

Pelikanudo

06-06-2020, 05:12 PM

Hi guys,
lot time dont pot here... happened breach and companions and now moreless like beforethose - at its simplest.
first I wish you all everybody is fine.

Iw rite because it seems a new card to be looked at has been printed. Peer into the abbyss. maybe it happens like Talisman which finally was included - maybe not.

hings about the card:
- it has same mana cost like IT->A.N AND is not life resource dependant
- it is asymetric
- It has no synergy with LED
- it reads draw so narset and Misdi can be now a thing.

concluson/deas
the shitty thing is that has no synergy with our best mana produced there fore any synergy around IT OR BW OR WY->into this is not mana efficient - this is the really sad thing.
therefore to build a deck around this card you need to go to a slower route consisting in CR/GM as aditional mana producers - I don't like this for TES as will be slower - but this doesn't mean either it'll become just worse.
the really chagellnge would be then to try to explode this angle in the best possible way - means to be more efficient at the cost of speed. but - again - do we want this? I don't.

I found then that this card is likely the best Mizzies Mystery target there can exist. so if this is in GY you just need only 4 mana to win the game and thats it.
in order to acomplish this you need to get this and MM and a LED in hand. I ve been thinking about this quite a bit - what does it mean? 3MM 3this and 4BW 4TW OR IT as example? too tough or nonsense - maybe? maybe just 1MM 3/4this and 4BW 4TW OR IT ? full of MM and this main? dont know.

having in mind this - maybe this can just be the only win main apart of other angles obtained by BW - I mean we can just stop using EoA main as ex. however i like to have this direction - maybe we can delegat its function only as BW Target...
I dont know if the direction of a possble way would be to go more in the MMastery route balanced by a tiny of the possiblity to being able to cast the card directly thoruh CR/GMonoliths... plus some other paths from BW - likely for this pustpose I would prefer TW but this likely involves GMonolit/DG/MOpalsChromes... OR - the other direction - means: CR/TSeize/Preordain/+Landsfew??? how it can be?

there it goes those 2 aproahes:

3 Peer into the abyss
1 Mizzix's Mastery

4 Burning Wish

4 Ponder
3 Grim Monolith
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Veil of Summer
2 Chrome Mox
2 Defense Grid
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Wishclaw Talisman

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Badlands
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Timo/ CR duress/TSeize,etc way:

4 TSeize
3 Duress

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
3 Peer into the abyss
1 Mizzix's Mastery

4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Island

still all theory but wanted throw some thoughts. sure maybe EoA can be added, or 1 lands to 2nd list- maybe a full of MM and this is the right solution or maybe backwards...

in my mind if we start to play this means AN will change - as first time I believe since its inception - from beeing the nº1 wincond to be nº0 - thing I really don't think or don't want it will happen...

EDIT: Maybe a new deck just pure B or BR can be built - you mentioned FFortune as ex: Medallions and NWshipers like build

Opinions?

Final Fortune

06-06-2020, 10:53 PM

Pelikanudo

06-07-2020, 04:21 AM

At best, I think it's a SB card to replace the Burning Wish -> black tutor -> Ad Nauseam line, every thing else is either too slow or graveyard reliant. Even out of the board, I doubt it's going to have much utility compared to hard casting Echo of Eons for 6 and chaining into Flashback. Mana efficiency matters more than anything else on win conditions, this thing only has the fixed life loss and asymmetry going for it.

I kind of wonder if this is a card better suited for Gifts Ungiven or Intuition piles?

- the card is mana efficient as no other - it is equivalent to tutor -> A.N
- the thing I hate is to have to pay the mana via OtherStuffDiffThanLED - lets say, as example if the the card would have also same flashback cost... then it would be a great card.
- the GY dependancy exists more in approach B beacuse of also CR and in case we want to do MM -> this.in approach A with GMonolith there is just the issue of MM
- MM -> this is - I believe - the best mana efficient engine existing, also IT->This is just 6 mana - means more efficient than IT->AN even. in order to occur tihs u just need to have LED,tutor,this,DR.(easy turn 1 withouth petal or mox...)
- don't think GU or Intituition are worth -> will not be mana efficient - I am trying to imagine a pile in which with GU yu win the same turn but nothing seems efficient.

EDIT: I've been goldfishing some hands variating the nº of MM and this, and - as suposed - the MM+this synergy is good but still a 2 card combo, which is sad and trying to cast this is quite an oddysey - LED does not help in here sadly...
likely in my build thi can replace at the same time Pif and IT , but even I am not sure if I want to replace both those by this... BW into IT and wait next turn is 7 mana under LED... will try definaely 1of in my side... the thing about PiF is for me mainly for post AN - but once you have drawn cards the new card is worse when PiF becomes better for this purpose.

Final Fortune

06-07-2020, 09:57 AM

- the card is mana efficient as no other - it is equivalent to tutor -> A.N
- the thing I hate is to have to pay the mana via OtherStuffDiffThanLED - lets say, as example if the the card would have also same flashback cost... then it would be a great card.
- the GY dependancy exists more in approach B beacuse of also CR and in case we want to do MM -> this.in approach A with GMonolith there is just the issue of MM
- MM -> this is - I believe - the best mana efficient engine existing, also IT->This is just 6 mana - means more efficient than IT->AN even. in order to occur tihs u just need to have LED,tutor,this,DR.(easy turn 1 withouth petal or mox...)
- don't think GU or Intituition are worth -> will not be mana efficient - I am trying to imagine a pile in which with GU yu win the same turn but nothing seems efficient.

EDIT: I've been goldfishing some hands variating the nº of MM and this, and - as suposed - the MM+this synergy is good but still a 2 card combo, which is sad and trying to cast this is quite an oddysey - LED does not help in here sadly...
likely in my build thi can replace at the same time Pif and IT , but even I am not sure if I want to replace both those by this... BW into IT and wait next turn is 7 mana under LED... will try definaely 1of in my side... the thing about PiF is for me mainly for post AN - but once you have drawn cards the new card is worse when PiF becomes better for this purpose.

Infernal Tutor and Ad Nauseam are mana efficient because Lion's Eye Diamond is an excellerent, if 6+ .mana was mana efficient in and of itself then we wouldn't be using LED to begin with. Even after the passing with a Grim Monolith on board, you're looking at a T3 fundamental turn at the earliest. Otherwise you're looking at Cabal Ritual with Threshold, but either way you're giving the opponent new ways to interact with a permanent on board or cards in the graveyard.

If you go the MM route, what makes it any better than Reanimating a Griselbrand? I think the card has a lot of barriers to entry for Storm, I mean you are talking Tooth and Nail mana here

Vivarus

06-10-2020, 12:35 AM

Peer into the Abyss is a card I'm excited to test with. Here are my initial thoughts!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/h03t6x/card_review_peer_into_the_abyss_the_epic_storm/

Izor

06-10-2020, 01:45 PM

Pelikanudo

06-12-2020, 01:07 PM

After some initial goldfishing I'm convinced enough that this card essentially says 'you win the game'. That coupled with the fact that it's a viable late game kill condition (outside of specific scenarios against Lightning Bolt decks) means to me that this will have some place in Legacy Storm decks. For TES it's probably a good side option, though in ANT I wouldn't even be surprised to see this as a maindeck card in multiples.

I 've been a fan of late cards mean WT, EoE, Veil and HB.

the card in deed reads win the game, but need to have in mind a couple of things:
- for ANT you should have ablailable B mana to go on with DR into win - at least OR draw petal. --> this means +1 mana available when casting if you intend to put up the likhood of winning the same turn it is casted
- for TES -it directly reads win the game as likely you'll draw petal or mox or opal

the real problem as FF and me stated is that cannot be casted off LED (I wish the card also had flasbck same cost...) which means 2lands +DR+CR which is perfectly fine in ANT. add+1 to put up thelikehood of winning the same turn and add +1 for disruption as possible scenarios.

I have to recognize I didn't test in ANT/TNT Build and likely in here is a good card as it is a slower deck and it is asymetric as PiF and no GY dependancy, in TES where cards like CR or preordain don't make the cut is not reallystic - only 1 in side.
I have doubts anyway if in ANT main will see play as:
- you have alreadyPiF which is asymetric and no lifedependant and more mana efficent and casted under LED -->purpose mid-to-late game as equal as Peer
- you have AN (for those needing still training wheels) as quick engine off LED via IT.

as said I don't discard this will see play in ANT - but in TES only in 1 side. in my mind in TNT build from Timo Schunemn likely those 3 BW + 1 AN can be 4 Peer even. BUT, it will be slower for sure. I as storm player don't like to be slow - I like to have a possition in which I can win quick, but in ANT, the card likely will make the deck more resilient, but not quicker, thing I personally dislike. the unique new angle the card opens for ANT is not GY dependancy, but if CR is switched off you are again the the same angle as GY dependacy refers.

Final Fortune

06-12-2020, 01:28 PM

Pelikanudo

06-12-2020, 01:36 PM

One of the upsides to this in a MD over Ad Nauseam is that Spirit Guides are no risk again, maybe something like Belcher or SI could use it? It wins the game on the spot, so Summoner's Pact is another four Spirit Guides as well. Does this get there with just a crap ton of mana behind it? Spoils of the Vault also makes LED lines more mana efficient, could be entertaining at least.

Lake of the Dead come to my mind too. (Natural Balance and Squanrenderd REsources and sure - CBloom!)
also likely Rain of Filth and.... dont know maybe in a Spiral Tide build containing the Bubble Muck approach!

yes - entertaining.

Izor

06-12-2020, 04:24 PM

Pelikanudo

06-12-2020, 06:31 PM

I didn't do any extensive testing, but I did test drawing 20 cards (which should be on the low end on average) in ANT assuming no mana floating and practically always found the win. Remember that finding 2 LEDs plus PiF also wins in cases where you missed on Petal.

In TNT it's really good in the side, but in the main I think you want to keep AN for the same reasons as TES. Both are much better than ANT at casting AN and you don't want to lose out on that advantage.

Peer is in a weird spot. It's kind of suboptimal as a conventional one-off tutor target storm engine because it's so expensive. It kind of wants to be drawn and played naturally, in which case it's strictly better than Tutor into AN in a vacuum. But that would mean playing 4 of them, which means you'll draw multiples sometimes and there's still the problem that you can't cast it off LED out of hand.

sure statistics are statistics.
you need for a 2nd turn win: DR,CR,2Lands/Petals,+3shold--> not possible a 2nd turn win unless M.M. path.
no LED involved, or Double CR.

Maybe you can add Street Wraith to the equation!

this is not ANT threat but a theorectical list would be easily:
(just copied pasted last one from TC Decks and adjusted)

3 Veil of Summer OR Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual

1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Thoughtseize
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
[
3 Preordain
4 Peer
1 Mizzys Mastery
]
OR
[
4 Preordain
3 Peer
1 Rain of Filth
]

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta

One last consideration about the Peer into the Abyss:
I am not going to say it is bad or good or other thing, but a fact and is: Peer into the Abyss makes LED a worse card for Storm. (sure unless M.M) - all playable Storm threats get along with LED - lets say IT, BW, WT into AN,EoA,PiF

Jax-

06-13-2020, 03:02 AM

Final Fortune

06-13-2020, 06:34 PM

Turn 1 Jet Medallion/Helm of Awakening consistently casts Peer on Turn 2/3 from my testings.

You can drop the Medallion/Helm pretty easily on turn 1 with Sol Lands or Chrome Mox or an heavy on artifacts build with MOpal and Vault of Whispers.

There is a critical mass of black tutors, Dark Petition, Grim Tutor, Wishclaw, all of them are fine without LED. Even Mastermind's Acquisition.

Dark Ritual/Cabal Ritual and Grim Monolith are plently of mana already.

You can cast this card from 2 life and still win the game.

The answer to the mana cost problem for TES was obvious, cut Rite of Flame for Grim Monolith. It doesn't require a Mountain, gives Metalcraft for Mox Opal and lets TES bank mana for later turns. You go land, Chrome Mox (Imprint), Grim Monolith, Mox Opal, Discard and pass, then untap and Burnish Wish and Lions Eye Diamond will get you there.

I honestly feel retarded for not playing Grim Monolith before this, it's a much stronger card than Rite of Flame if you want to have a better midgame.

Bryant Cook

06-18-2020, 08:23 AM

https://theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-ug-omni-tell/

Pelikanudo

07-01-2020, 02:38 PM

@F.Fortune and others.

lately the latest build I played and was confortable with was (prior to Corona):

4 Burning Wish
1 Echo of Eons
4 Ponder
3 Rite of Flame
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Veil of Summer
3 Chrome Mox
2 Defense Grid
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Wishclaw Talisman

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands

side can be:
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echo of Eons
1 Rite of Flame
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
3 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Pulverize
1 Crash
1 R. Silence
1 E. Truth
1 T. Seize
...

the deck with EoA was really strong - no many matches really - but it had another concept, this means maximize on permanents - opals and chromes need to max out.
Opal was awesome, even if not producing mana, the fact it was there under a resolved EoA was key - so 4 should be there - I understand switching from 4th to 4th RoF - which I still hate seeing that number in the deck...
Also WT is too good- I think still the card is not played well enough - I saw scenarios where just activating it to bring it the card early exposes the opp. equally a 2x1 as ex.
Latest builds has 1ToA main which is undersntable vs control once played WT us gives you inevitability - that is true. but you'll winn anyway vs those and just prefer 1CoV which is never dead and likely 2 among the 75 should be

things I thouthg later was:
1- IT instead of RoF
2- GMonolith instead of RoF

thoughts on those options are a lot...
I just tested a bit about IT - dont know really - sometimes is better sometimes is worse than RoF...
ex.:
- top deck is just infintely better IT.
- somtimes you overload on threats 1st hand but this does only mean 1 thing - you'll go slower - and even in this sncenario you can just copy DR or LED or play the WT to tranform into LED/DR soon.
- the natural storm game play exist again IT => AN- so in some way it means beeing quicker.
- miss double r for BW =>EtW
- miss some really good RoF t1...
-...

related to GM - no idea in theory sounds good - now even with PITA.
- now even less cards to imprint on mox... likely need to change
- I've been thinking in a 2 RoF 2 GM 2 CM number! no idea...
- ...

as I have no much time and opportunity - I'll see how it goes with one of those options...

Some other thoughts, I've been addng to the side Shenanings and Ingot Chewer - this last is great as it is only 2 under trini/Thorn once landed WT!

likely the build posted is the one I've been most confortable with - it really wrecks hard - likey too hard... but wonder if someone has any opnions on some other stuff...

Final Fortune

07-01-2020, 09:30 PM

Pelikanudo

07-02-2020, 06:09 AM

In my experience, Grim Monolith is better than Rite of Flame for a midgame and Defense Grid is too easy to play around when you have to go to the midgame.

Wishclaw Talisman doesn't need anythng but Ad Nauseam main deck, if they discard your storm engine then you can just tutor for Burning Wish and post-board problems like Surgical Extraction and Meddling Mage can be dealth with by SBing in Tendrils of Agony etc.

I think way too many people over value Veil of Summer, without Thoughtseize the Swamp loses value and the deck starves for Black imprints. I don't get the point of Badlands without Island either, people seem to be relying on Mox Opal for a stable manabase and that is going to destroy you vs Trinisphere, Null Rod and Chalice of the Void.

I think Chrome Mox and Mox Opal are better than Lotus Petal, even if they are more conditional they let you build up a manabase. I play a lot of blank Chrome Moxes for metalcraft as well, and tend to shave on Lotus Petal and Grim Monolith over other accelerants. Swamp, Chrome Mox and eitherWishclaw Talisman or Grim Monolith and go is a really strong set up.

Generally, I think people need to ne more mindful of playing a Storm deck with a better midgame vs blue and building a deck that is more vulnerable to getting a spanner thrown into the works. People aren't blindly relying on Chalice anymore with Veil as a work around, I see a lot of Thalia, Guardian of Thraban, Etherswon Canonist and Thorns of Amethyst personally but don't be surprided to get Null Rod. The threat of Veil is probably more relevant than actually having it.

I've had a look at the Bryant WebSite list and how to side just OOC, but was really surprised that he sides out MOpal most of the times... even vs tempo which I find Opals great in thi matchup. - even the numbers where -1CM, -3Opal!!! leaving the deck with only 14 IMS vs tempo!!! - nonsense.

since Veil I stopped to side in Tendrils or GS unless you fight heavy discard, it is perfectly assumable to just protect BW from discard via BS or Veil.

agree DG is good for 3 st turns , however, if resolved - I won't invest as ex. a veil to make DG resolve - a veild under DG is always victory
I've not seen many null rods/oufe lately and really those will wreck te deck even more if you play GMonoliths - that it is true - I saw Bryant side in a couple of decays which is always clunky - I imagine with the goal to not to be countered - my idea is to just to not to overload on dedicated slots to a couple of null rods, just 1 CoV and shenanigans from side or GShot in case of Oufe - both answers have the inevitability thing.

with the deck above it is fine vs control - much more than before - but the deployment need to be quick.
I am really thinking in 0 need of decay and just also add more CoV, etc.

any list?

the latest side is beeing for list above:
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echo of Eons
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 shenanigans
1 PITI
1 Pulverize
1 Crash
1 R. Silence
1 E. Truth
1 T. Seize
1 ingot chewer
1 Defense Grid

EDIT: I'd like to make room maybe to Xantid instead of DG - a couple. over likely HopeOGhirapur - I've seeing lists with Coatl... last time HoG was fine, but don't know if now is ok...

EDIT 2 - maybe this can work: - maybe 2 GM and 3 TSeize?

4 Burning Wish
1 Echo of Eons
4 Ponder
3 GMonolith
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Veil of Summer
3 Chrome Mox
2 T.Seize
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Wishclaw Talisman

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands

Final Fortune

07-02-2020, 09:35 AM

Sure,

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Wishclaw Talisman
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
3 Grim Monolith
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Underground Sea

SB is the usual fair, but I use Hurkyl's Recall a lot. I really dislike Green, but I do keep Hope of Ghirapur in the board. Everything runs pretty smooth, I change the number of Grim Monolith, Duress and Lotus Petals around but other than that I am happy with it.

whiskeyhughes

07-02-2020, 11:30 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring HARLAN FIRER (TWITTER: @HARLANFIRER | MTGO: HARLANMTG)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-41/

Pelikanudo

07-16-2020, 03:18 PM

hi, liked latest hand from here:
https://theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-titanic-dryad/

HAND NO. 10: (ON THE PLAY — MULLIGANED TWICE)
Mox Opal
Chain of Vapor
Brainstorm
Wishclaw Talisman
Dark Ritual
Chrome Mox
Lotus Petal

my answer:
really depends on the chances to draw them chalice - dont know much the deck, then i like these 2:
1-bottom BS and CoV, play opal, CM ( no imprint ), Petal, then WT under petal+Opal - this leaves with DR+Opal mana for AN - a topdeck LED means wins.
2-bottom BS and DR play opal, CM ( imprint CoV ), Petal, then WT under CM+Opal - this leaves with 3permanet mana for AN - a topdeck LED means wins.

a chalice at 1 shuts down 1) so 2) is better. - dnt know if they play diamond...
need to play more often... I thguth on corona era I finally was going to play MTGO... but too lazy. what a shame about MWS...

Bryant Cook

07-26-2020, 06:02 PM

I was fortunate enough to make top 8 of the Legacy Challenge today. My games were a blast! Honestly, if you were to watch any of my videos — watch these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYSRC9d6rCU&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6Nt4D43_7LCfDkHswhlpyL3x

Reeplcheep

07-26-2020, 07:54 PM

whiskeyhughes

07-31-2020, 12:36 PM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring CHRISTOPHER VIRULA (TWITTER: @CHRIS_VIRULA | MTGO: COMETA183)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-42/

Reeplcheep

07-31-2020, 01:04 PM

The tutoring Bryant does of Anzi is excellent content.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7bJzYf25KI

whiskeyhughes

08-31-2020, 01:19 AM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring JEREMY HINES (TWITTER: u/THEWORDISBRANCH | MTGO: JEREMY_HINES)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-43/

Final Fortune

09-04-2020, 09:17 AM

The new mythic lands are pretty interesting, likelyhood is they'll be Sorcery/Land types based on their cost. That said, would anyone want to be able to Burning Wish for a land to hit drops? Fairly niche, but Burnish Wish is technically a mana fixer now and the other half of the card might be relevant.

Edit: Feed the Swarm looks decent as well

Bryant Cook

09-15-2020, 05:33 PM

Won the Legacy PTQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG8rGdjxHDY&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6NvUQr95HhUPB38H_P-N01aI&ab_channel=TheEPICStorm
Won the Legacy Challenge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N7cPOntXIM&list=PL2Bv_NlSo6Nv_eR_eSsZkFZmfLumW1VpB&ab_channel=TheEPICStorm

whiskeyhughes

09-30-2020, 01:11 PM

This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring NATHAN GOLIA
(TWITTER: @N_R_G | MTGO: VINCENTADU1TMAN )! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-44/

Reeplcheep

12-21-2020, 01:57 PM

TES 10.8 is essentially a bug deck post board against delver now, with 4 carpet 4 veil 2 decay but 0 rof 4 wish. Except for pulverize, having 3 red duals but only 2 green ones (each only fetchable by 3-4/7 fetched) seems awkward.

I mentioned it on reddit, but perhaps it would be worth testing switching rite of flame to tinderwall and the mana base from UBRg to BUGr (4 verdant 1 mire 0 badlands 1 bayou).

Bryant cook did mention it requires 2 G ims on the combo turn sometimes, but it also means you can combo with 0 R ims. Looked at a few sample hands on the website; this one seemed improved:

Delta, b.wish, drit, led, rof, via, wishclaw. With bayou and tinderwall here can cast any of your spells instead of Rof $ badlands. Leading out on tinder wall Let’s you t2 veil into echo if the Opponent has no t1 removal, and if answered/countered you could go off with veil into rit echo with a sea or swamp top deck unlike if you fetched for badlands and your rof was dazed.

Reeplcheep

12-21-2020, 02:24 PM

Going through some more example hands:

Chrome mox, vosx2, rof, b.wish,ponder, led.

If that rof is a tinderwall, it lets you imprint veil for a turn 1 echo with a land drop floating. Now you may want to mull that hand anyways but it’s better then unplayable.

Pelikanudo

12-26-2020, 08:47 AM

the bad thing about TW is that you cannot chain into TW as aopp to RoF.
I tried several things in the form of GMonolith, the problem was it costed me 1 game because of its CMC - tried also to max out Opals and taking out Tendrils, and in the end I felt RoF seemed less worse. but I liked GMonolith it was super powerfull, maybe I should invest more time in that approach...
happy new year to all!

JackaBo

12-26-2020, 09:56 AM

I was playing TW during the Lurrus era. I think it’s a good compromise if you want to play 1-2 of that effect, avd then the chaining problem isn’t really a problem.

Final Fortune

12-27-2020, 07:59 AM

Bryant Cook

12-29-2020, 09:23 AM

Alex McKinley (@vivarus_) reviews his MOCs Legacy Qualifier TOP 8 FINISH!!! With main deck Carpet of Flowers AND no Rite of Flames.

This is a video you won't want to miss!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2PucSE5j74&ab_channel=TheEPICStorm

Pelikanudo

01-21-2021, 03:21 PM

Monolith builds are the best I've played, their mana base and middle game are rock solid.

Hi,
can you provide me your current 75 - I wanna brew something new - I've been tinkering with GMonliths and they have their pros and cons - no much time to spend on MTG...

I'm more likely inclined to a 4veil/3TSeize disruption, but 7discard is something I don't discard - the thing I am more worried about is opp. Veils, how do you handle this? I in theory do not see a way to overlap this...
let me know a quick howtoside vs 3shold, urzas, 4colorcontrol, miracles

Final Fortune

01-23-2021, 05:17 PM

Hi,
can you provide me your current 75 - I wanna brew something new - I've been tinkering with GMonliths and they have their pros and cons - no much time to spend on MTG...

I'm more likely inclined to a 4veil/3TSeize disruption, but 7discard is something I don't discard - the thing I am more worried about is opp. Veils, how do you handle this? I in theory do not see a way to overlap this...
let me know a quick howtoside vs 3shold, urzas, 4colorcontrol, miracles

Same list as before, I change the numbers here and there but it never makes a real difference. The Veil deck has better disruption, so you have to take the time to discard it or force them to cycle. They probably have the edge, but I don't worry about combo mirrors so much as beating counter spells. I mean people are running MD carpets fwiw, so the whole building up a manabase thing has merrit.

SB is really up to you, I am a bit out of the loop these days with a new baby in the house.

Pelikanudo

01-24-2021, 09:15 AM

Same list as before, I change the numbers here and there but it never makes a real difference. The Veil deck has better disruption, so you have to take the time to discard it or force them to cycle. They probably have the edge, but I don't worry about combo mirrors so much as beating counter spells. I mean people are running MD carpets fwiw, so the whole building up a manabase thing has merrit.

SB is really up to you, I am a bit out of the loop these days with a new baby in the house.
I wish you all my best FFortune!

yesterday played a local and went fine - standar list with veil/Echo, only added 2 truths instead of CoV for thse cjalices/karns, it worked really well...

Pelikanudo

02-13-2021, 07:32 AM

Hi TES stormers!

the other day I tried a build consisting in -4RoF = +4th Opal, 3 Tinder Wall! and really don't know how much relevant they were but it was successfull!, I believe it is more because of 4th Opal than other thing, I really believe there is a strong tension between 4th Opal and 4th RoF, and finally determined it was going to be 4th Opal. really love the fast deployemnt opal offers and want to have it in my initial 7.

Another good change I've been stablished in the side is: Old friend Vexing Shuser!!!:
- lately some Counterbalance decks I've been facing and VS with all the fast mana deployment + Carpet of Flowers has been an all star vs all those DD, CB and excess of counters in the form of fow, fon, fluster.
- also is a decent answer against chalices.
- can be played proactively and pass turn to save mana or the same combo turn,
- the goal is to cast a veil under vexing and things should go much easier from that.

another thing I've been doing is to cast wishclash and activate it ASAP, having in mind possible answers - the curious thing is that most of the times opponent is reulctant to activate it in the next turn, so you save mana or will have another answer, the more I play WT the more I like the card... some scenarios involved hate permant cards and just activating WT into decay, next opp activates into another hate, and next activate for 2nd decay is just a good chess move!

have all a nice day!

Reeplcheep

02-13-2021, 08:28 PM

Pelikanudo

02-14-2021, 07:16 AM

I asked them about tinderwall in the past. Vivarius seems to think the difficulty in chaining them and holding up veil is not worth it.

One alternative I had was jeweled amulet. It helps opal a lot, and is an additional green and black IMS.

in deed, I' ve not played too many games to reach that conclusion, this was my main conecrn however, when playing I think it was irrelevant to play TW or RoF during the matches.

the thing is: If I am going to play 4 TW/RoF, sure I'd play 4 RoF, but along the time I am just preferring to go with 4 opals, then 3RoF/TW, sure If I have to play 2 TW the same turn and protect with Veil I need 3 G IMS, and that would be a problem, but don't think that scenario will happen too much.

Some Pros I've found:
- potentially can be a +RR if unchecked
- it is potentially Instant Speed
- can be used to avoid life loss
- can be used proactively to be played vs hatebears in 2nd/3rd games as Swords will go out and then will save mana
- TW somehow seems to be more casteable than RoF with manabase current - that is a feeling.

I've been trying als some GrimMnolith builds and they are fine, but still have issues with lifeloss and taking out Tendrils/Echo doesn't seem to me a good move.
anyway, Vexing Shusher seems to me good right now, will experiment more with this...

Another thing I've been doing is vs control just side out all CM, with all those FoW/FoN + flusters , doesn't seem viable to try to win quick with CM... just want to avoid CDisadvantage as much as poss.

EDIT: no, jeweled amulet does nt worth even evaluation. GrimMon is the GoTo if goal is to max out on artifacts - once considered on SnowSwamp + Astrolabe, but same.

Pelikanudo

03-21-2021, 08:43 AM

Hi all!

definately Vexing Susher will remain in my side,
likely it is the best card you can draw vs for example Miracles. all you need to do is: Susher + Veil of summer, the other day 8 spells on the stack occurred during Vexing susher deployment and finally Susher prevailed! it was in deed a great matchup! I needed to pass the turn anyway with among other things 1 swords on the stack and opp having 2 WT in his power, he decided to pick up balance + surgical to my Decay, but on my next turn I picked - you guess: 2nd Susher + veil and won.

Also, realted to TW, a case scenario that occurred to me was: 5 turns avoiding damage from Hullbreacher!

by te moment I'm happy with the 75, and preferred Echoing truth over CoV just because everybody seems to play Chalice at 1. I still am figuring out how to deal with those Urzas hell decks... which seems to me the worst match up out of there...

keep storming bros!

Pelikanudo

05-31-2021, 04:42 PM

hi guys,
I just read the card Galvanic relay, and saw whoa, a cheaper minds desire and on RoF colors, not possible, a fake, likely redisign of TES completly or await banning?,
next I was told to re-read the card and thought, well read is tech.

but next I was thinking in scenarios about the card and just concluded it was going to be in side no matter what I'll expose:
- lately I've been playing like 3 Tnder Wall 4 opals, 3 CMoxen and fine
- I consider the card more for a MidToLate game changer OR as a PlanB against an expected daze/s pierces or not counters BW scenarios, soemtimes they counter, but sometimes not - so it can somehow be considered right now as a must counter incase you expect or plays as BW to be countered, but it doesnt - and not pick up let say a Tseize - It can really acts as a TSeize now
- it is just 3 silly mana 2R..., I am just thinking in going back to RoF or even to Baubles (3maybe is the number) as the idea behind is to just NOT invenst resources at mid game so that you just generate storm + dont invest resources like: Opal, Baulbe, LED, BS, THIS, (sure sacrifice bauble for next happy turn!) just providing the next turn a reaaaally smoother win... -->really dont want to invest a LED when playing this, thats the general idea behind!
- It reads storm and it is asymetrical, as opposite to Echo, if you past the turn, you dont make the opp to refill his/her hand but you do!, mayb I am too optmistic, but if invested near 8 spells or 9 and you dont reach 10NoTendrils , containing number from invested spells/resources from opp. it is just the nuts... (NOTE same mana as Echo+dont need to iscard+asymetrical)
- it will be a great play to justjam BW for this, liley opp doesnt counter and you just dont have any other prot spell, but doesnt matter and will be much more devastating than a perfectly-counterable PITI..
-I have to say in my last 5To6 tournaments didnt use EtW and last one I just took out from side - nonsense? maybe, but I just dont find the need of EtW right now, Echo is safer and sometimes quicker, and seems that everboyd is well packed vs EtW or just other ways are jut better and safer.
- it really makes the deck to play in a different way, from now on you need to evaluate more if to land stuff or not

onions?

Patrunkenphat7

09-13-2021, 06:42 PM

I've been thinking about getting back into Legacy, and TES seems interesting. Is the deck well-positioned?

Ronald Deuce

09-13-2021, 10:49 PM

I've been thinking about getting back into Legacy, and TES seems interesting. Is the deck well-positioned?

The London mulligan's fucked everything into the ground. Play All Spells.

Reeplcheep

09-14-2021, 08:54 AM

I've been thinking about getting back into Legacy, and TES seems interesting. Is the deck well-positioned?

The deck is a bit difficult but it is great. Bryant and Vivarus are in the top8 almost every weekend. Chant gives them game against other combo decks and veil + galvanic relay makes it great postboard vs blue.

You will get way more info on their website though. (www.mtgtheepicstorm.com) the deck gets to play 4 “black lotus”, “time twister”, 6 Mox, and now 4 “minds desire”.

Patrunkenphat7

09-20-2021, 02:03 PM

The deck is a bit difficult but it is great. Bryant and Vivarus are in the top8 almost every weekend. Chant gives them game against other combo decks and veil + galvanic relay makes it great postboard vs blue.

You will get way more info on their website though. (www.mtgtheepicstorm.com) the deck gets to play 4 “black lotus”, “time twister”, 6 Mox, and now 4 “minds desire”.

Thanks for the helpful info!

Final Fortune

04-10-2022, 12:55 AM

Managed to make it back stateside in order to get some kitchen table top and local legacy in, went back to a more traditional URB list.

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Echo of Eons
1 Empty the Warrnes
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Black Lotus
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grape Shot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Echo of Eons
4 Galvanic Relay
1 Massacre
1 Pulverize
4 Chain of Vapor

I went for maximum redundancy and efficiency, the plan with the manabase is to bluff Force of Will and Daze and tank Wastelands. I don't think a 4 color deck is worth Veil of Summer and Autumn's Veil, and just prefer to streamline down to 3 colors and discard. The deck has held up well for me, is faster and I would encourage other people to try it.

Edit: Gave the discard a little more punching power vs SBed counters.