SCG Open/Grand Prix Attendance

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

So there's been a trending decline in SCG Open attendance since Wizards has held a Grand Prix nearly every open weekend.

There's especially a decline in Legacy attendance.

This worries me a bit, but let's be honest there's not much reason to play the SCG Opens anymore as far as Planeswalker Points other than it being supposedly easier money according to some players.

Questions, comments, rebuttal, editorial reply?

[CorpT]

I think we are definitely approaching saturation point. And frankly, if the choice is between an SCG and a GP, most people are going to go to a GP. I really don't know how SCG could fix that either. An 8x multiplier and PT invites vs a 3x multiplier and none. Additionally, there are a lot more different vendors available at a GP.

I'm not sure it is something to be worried about though. Do you think they'll switch to Modern or something? I would doubt that.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Seems like GP's are the way to go if you want to grind PPW quickly. SCG got rid of their byes with the new player system.

For instance, I mostly play Legacy at my LGS twice a month, maybe an FNM once in a blue moon.

I attended GP's Lincoln and Indy and have a bye for the next season post April 1 -- just from playing in two GP's. I didn't even make day two at either tournament.

If I had attended any SCG Opens, that wouldn't have happened. Though, I do plan on attending nearby opens this year (Des Moines, KC, St. Louis, etc.).

[Koby]

The city of choice for th SCG opens is also an important factor. For instance this weekend at Sacramento whih has no good Magic community really eats into the attendance. Both San Francisco and Los Angeles has a more active community. This translates to less local players coming out to play both Standard and Legacy events. We have 117 here in the legacy tournament right now.

[Phoenix Ignition]

The city of choice for th SCG opens is also an important factor. For instance this weekend at Sacramento whih has no good Magic community really eats into the attendance. Both San Francisco and Los Angeles has a more active community. This translates to less local players coming out to play both Standard and Legacy events. We have 117 here in the legacy tournament right now.

This is very true, although I'd say even SF's scene is pretty lackluster. North CA is where Legacy goes to die.

[joemauer]

Wasn't the SCG tourney in Ohio a few weeks back and big one?
200+ players big?

[Fade]

If I remember correctly SCG Cinci got 293 players for legacy

[Zakman86]

Expect numbers to go up as the number of GPs in the US drop.

[Bryant Cook]

I'll be at the SCG: Baltimore this upcoming weekend. I however will not be in the invitational.

[workingdude]

Also, there doesnt seem to be much of an issue if the events are held on opposite sides of the US. For most MTG players, other than the Legacy GPs, there aren't format's for which traveling across the nation for a GP would be much better than driving to a much closer SCG.

Even then, Dallas got a good turnout last week with 500+ for standard and 170+ for Legacy.

[DrHealex]

I am often curious as to how the turnouts would be if legacy was on sat. Sunday always severly cuts down the turnout of ANY format. if i remember correctly, there was even GPs on the ohio and houston opens which had good turnouts.

[Octopusman]

This is very true, although I'd say even SF's scene is pretty lackluster. North CA is where Legacy goes to die.

This is where I live and we have been trying to grow the community.
It's improving, but at a very slow rate.

I agree that Northen CA struggles to keep a legacy scene alive. It's a damn crying shame. Even southern CA is decent with events in SD and LA.

:( Wish I had the East Coast scene.

[Aggro_zombies]

This is where I live and we have been trying to grow the community.
It's improving, but at a very slow rate.

I agree that Northen CA struggles to keep a legacy scene alive. It's a damn crying shame. Even southern CA is decent with events in SD and LA.

:( Wish I had the East Coast scene.
That's because the Bay Area is a Grinder's paradise. There are plenty of people who could play Legacy in local events, but won't unless there's a PT invite/GP on the line.

[Michael Keller]

I'll be at the SCG: Baltimore this upcoming weekend. I however will not be in the invitational.

I'll see you there. You're welcome to stay at my place on Saturday - whoever else you're coming with.

[DrHealex]

I'll be at the SCG: Baltimore this upcoming weekend. I however will not be in the invitational.
That's a shame. It is very easy to get an invite in the 8man grinders on fridya.

[Bryant Cook]

There's the invitational and the 5K.

[Zakman86]

I am often curious as to how the turnouts would be if legacy was on sat. Sunday always severly cuts down the turnout of ANY format. if i remember correctly, there was even GPs on the ohio and houston opens which had good turnouts.

As the SCG Opens have ended up more localized, I've found that the bigger the Legacy scene is in an area, the bigger the event tends to be.

In Memphis, there is apparently no Legacy scene, thus the VERY small number compared to the Standard Open the day before; we lost nearly 75% of players, and there was a ton of Dredge/Belcher/Burn in the field.

[luckme10]

I'm more concerned about the bottom line. Given the recent shortages in SCG Legacy attendances, I can't foresee them being able to profitably crank out these Legacy 5k tournaments at their current frequency, or at all. Something's gotta give, and I think it's either prize support, or legacy itself.

[Koby]

The tournaments are not money makers in themselves remember - it's the fact that they are the only dealer in the room that is. Turns out - selling cards makes a lot of money. They also use the shows to have a consistent and regional buying spree. The latter is the most important aspect to a successful singles seller.

[Bryant Cook]

The tournaments are not money makers in themselves remember - it's the fact that they are the only dealer in the room that is. Turns out - selling cards makes a lot of money. They also use the shows to have a consistent and regional buying spree. The latter is the most important aspect to a successful singles seller.

These Legacy 5Ks are 30$ each. Meaning they need 167 (166.66) people to break even on just the prizes given back out. They easily get 334 people between the two days, they usually get more than 334 people just for standard. I understand that there's cost of space, cost of employment, and cost of product. But I'm sure this is more than easily made up by cost of sales and extra revenue from the event.

I don't see these events going anywhere anytime soon.

[cdr]

I get the impression SCG is not unhappy with turnout considering both the expanded GP schedule and the expanded SCG Open schedule. Overall player numbers are up even though those players are spread across more events. I don't think WotC is unhappy with > 1000 person legacy GPs either.

[csy]

Gp Indy was 1211 people. That's a pretty damn good turn out.

[Phoenix Ignition]

These Legacy 5Ks are 30$ each. Meaning they need 167 (166.66) people to break even on just the prizes given back out. They easily get 334 people between the two days, they usually get more than 334 people just for standard. I understand that there's cost of space, cost of employment, and cost of product. But I'm sure this is more than easily made up by cost of sales and extra revenue from the event.

I don't see these events going anywhere anytime soon.

It might be true that they're making money with the current setup, but what's keeping them from changing it to a Standard/Draft 5k or a Standard/Modern 5k series? If Legacy itself isn't holding up its end of the deal then it would be more profitable to just switch to a different format altogether. This isn't going to happen because I really think the other side of this is that selling Legacy is by far the best for single's sales, assuming Standard will always be 1 of the 2 events. The range of Legacy playables is only really outclassed by the range of EDH playables, and EDH 5k would be the biggest clusterfuck on Earth, so Legacy is probably completely safe.

Keeping Legacy even moderately exciting is probably enough to bolster sales of hundreds of expensive cards that wouldn't otherwise sell.

[Koby]

They also use the shows to have a consistent and regional buying spree. The latter is the most important aspect to a successful singles seller.

In case anyone missed it. This is the entire reason for the amount of stops that SCG offers. More cards in = more inventory for online sales. If they can generate some money on the side by offering a tournament (draws people to venue) and offer cards for sale (to play in tournament) even better.

Same reason why vendors to go limited Grand Prix's = spend upwards of $30,000 in buying singles.

[aahz]

I discussed this idea briefly with someone as we discussed the Legacy/Modern side events at SGC Sac (maybe Koby?, I can't remember as I was tired) around the time we were comparing FBB Savannahs before the main Legacy event. I'd love to see SCG do a Vintage side event (or mini-Open, ala the Sunday Drafts) on Saturday. I won't travel far for the Opens (and there aren't many close to me) the way they are set up now, partly because the Saturday stuff doesn't interest me because I only play (non-modern) Eternal formats. It might draw in more people who otherwise would only show up on Sunday. I would be much more likely to travel for events like that if I could play Vintage one day and Legacy the other. It seemed like I talked to a bunch of people on Sunday that indicated that they'd love to play Vintage (even preferring it to Legacy, as I do). It would probably have to be a proxy event though, which might throw a small wrench in the gears (but I know SCG has done big proxy Vintage events in the past).

I'm probably biased though and overestimating the actual potential interest in Vintage. I bet people would like it better if there was more streaming video coverage of it because it is by far the most exciting format as a spectator (as long as any proxies allowed don't suck).

[csy]

My interest in Vintage just goes up more and more every time I play legacy. But if they had vintage events like draft events at SCG opens ods are they'd often go unfired.

[luckme10]

I'm sure every thief in the area is licking his/her chops at the thought of a vintage side event.

[Ziveeman]

In case anyone missed it. This is the entire reason for the amount of stops that SCG offers. More cards in = more inventory for online sales. If they can generate some money on the side by offering a tournament (draws people to venue) and offer cards for sale (to play in tournament) even better.

Same reason why vendors to go limited Grand Prix's = spend upwards of $30,000 in buying singles.

Also with thousands of viewers on the livestreams, they are probably making a decent amount there. With the streams being every week now, it'll add up quickly.