[Developmental] Spreading Illusions - An Enchantress Variant

[Freggle]

Maindeck: 60

The Disruption: 15
3 Spreading Seas
4 Sea's Claim
3 Suppression Field
2 Choke
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

The Stall: 6
3 Energy Field
3 Elephant Grass

The Draw: 7
4 Argothian Enchantress
3 Enchantress's Presence

The Acceleration: 8
4 Carpet of Flowers
4 Utopia Sprawl

The Win: 5
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Defense of the Heart

The Wildcards:
2 Enlightened tutor


Mana: 19
10 Forest
4 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Serra's Sanctum


Sideboard: 15
1 Energy Field
1 Elephant Grass
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Arcane Laboratory
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Journey to Nowhere
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Choke
4 Leyline of the Void


The Goal
The goal of the deck is to disrupt your opponent by disrupting their mana, and win by attacking with an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

The Plan
The Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can be brought into play either by hard casting it via the copious amounts of mana the deck can produce by abusing (stacking) Carpet of Flowers and Serra's Sanctum or by triggering a Defense of the Heart either by your opponent naturally doing so, or by abusing Forbidden Orchard.

The Lock
The lock is simple. Turn as many of your opponents lands into islands as possible Sea's Claim and Spreading Seas and then ultimately land a Choke to cut them off or disrupt their mana. There is also a soft synergy with Suppression Field and how it interacts with fetch lands.

Deck Notes
The deck gains a tremendous amount of acceleration by abusing Carpet of Flowers + Spreading Seas / Sea's Claim interaction, and can rebound from some pretty precarious game positions.

The draw engine is the same as other enchantress builds 4 Argothian Enchantress and 3 Enchantress's Presence keep the cards flowing. Spreading Seas also has the added benefit of being a cantrip in and of itself so the engine can become quite explosive quite quickly.

Defense of the Heart is rarely is ever dead. Not only can it fish up and place into play an Emrakul. It can also make the draw engine that much more explosive by placing two Argothian Enchantresses into play.

This deck is highly disruptive and extremely competitive, and for me an all around blast to play.

I'm not going to lie. I just dreamed it up tonight took it for a spin on Cocktrice and MWS for a bit and was blowing people out. I thought I'd just go ahead and post it here so those interested could help develop this list to it's peak sooner.

I'd love to hear what people have to say good or bad.


Original Sideboard
3 Circle of Protection: Red - burn / Prog. May not be needed
4 Oblivion Ring - Emrakul, ...whatever else
4 Leyline of the Void - The best yard hate
4 Leyline of Sanctity - To help against all things targeted. ...discard, burn sac effects...[/SIZE="2"]

[Greenpoe]

Utopia Sprawl with only 10 forests sounds wrong. You may want Wild Growth instead.

[Aggro_zombies]

Wild Growth doesn't do it for him, though. He wants blue to cast his land-changing enchantments, but doesn't want islands because of Choke. Fertile Ground would be more in line with what he wants.

[Bruticus]

Are you aware that Carpet doesn't stack? You can only use the ability once.

[bruizar]

Haven't looked into the list too much yet but I just wanted to say that I love the idea! I can tell you from experience that Spreading Seas is a really sweet card, and seeing that in enchantress is exciting. There's probably a lot of room for improvement but the idea itself is cool.

[Freggle]

Are you aware that Carpet doesn't stack? You can only use the ability once.

I was not aware of this. I'm not a rules guru, perhaps I'm using the wrong terms. If I were to have multiple copies of Carpet of Flowers in play I could only use the (triggered?) ability once?

I was thinking it was once per turn per copy.

Even if you could only use the ability once regardless of the number of carpet copies that is not too much of a detriment. 1 active carpet is all you need, and in many matches that is all I ever had in play. ...and the other multiples are good cheap cantrips with an enchantress active.

Different topic it should be noted that once the engine is going it is very easy to lock people off of all mana because Suppression Field essentially turns off fetch lands / and inadvertently keep Wasteland in check. Since you get multiple enchantments per turn and they only get one land it works way better than I thought it would.

I was thinking this morning the deck could even run Decree of Silence or Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, but in the end I don't think they are needed.

[Anusien]

It is once per turn per Carpet of Flowers.

Also, Sea's Claim, Convincing Mirage, and Lingering Mirage are ridiculously better than Phantasmal Terrain for you.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

The manabase seems like it needs retooled as well. There's not much of a reason not to have some number of Savannah and at least 1 Trop. Yes it gets choke'd but only after you have ideally laid down a few Spreading Sea-esqe cards so losing just one land isn't a big deal

[hyperchord24]

Yeah, a fetchable turn one blue source seems warrented, esp if you were to run sea's claim (devastating turn one spell against non-blue decks). Being stuck with two forests as your only lands in your opener would suck. I would love to take your deck for spin myself, though. Looks great.

[Anusien]

I hate to ask, but does Enchantress even struggle with non-blue decks?

[caiomarcos]

I hate to ask, but does Enchantress even struggle with non-blue decks?

Fast clock + discard might be a problem. And any form of combo of course.

@OP:
Is it really that devastating turning lands into islands?

[hyperchord24]

When they don't untap, and when you have a one-sided Eladamri's Vineyard, yes, I suppose.

[Anusien]

All the times I see Enchantress struggling it is because of Delver of Secrets or Lingering Souls or combo or something. Those decks aren't hurt by turning their lands to Islands, and I don't think you gain anything here.

[Freggle]

@OP:
Is it really that devastating turning lands into islands?

In a vacuum no. Turning your opponents lands into basic islands is an interim step for the deck that has varying effectiveness.

Against non-blue decks it can be very disruptive. For example it's not too hard to keep your opponents off of BB for a Hymn to Tourach a scary card for any enchantress player to face. ...but the real key to this particular list is that it sets up huge amounts of mana with Carpet of Flowers and ultimately taps down all their land with Choke to the point where enchantress truly becomes a game of solitaire.

It was funny I played Maveric last night, and I was annoyed that they were able to stay on color with their mana men. ...that was until I dropped a Defense of the Heart and fetched up an Emrakul & Argothian because I could.



It is once per turn per Carpet of Flowers.

Also, Sea's Claim, Convincing Mirage, and Lingering Mirage are ridiculously better than Phantasmal Terrain for you.

All the times I see Enchantress struggling it is because of Delver of Secrets or Lingering Souls or combo or something. Those decks aren't hurt by turning their lands to Islands, and I don't think you gain anything here.

Anusien, I respect what you have to say. All the above cards were gross oversights. This is what you get when you dream up a list on you ride home from work, and jump into testing.

I also think your missing a few very important things, and I feel it's more my fault for not explaining them. It is my opinion that this list is stronger against blue because of all of the spells they MUST counter. In my mind they are as follows:

Argothian Enchantress
Choke
Enchantress's Presence
Suppression Field
Defense of the Heart
Carpet of Flowers

If all of those cards are not countered this deck will gain advantage over control either through card advantage or locking or stalling important aspects of blues game.

Last night I faced a delver Team America Style deck. T1 Delver T2 flip in for 3.

The first couple turns were horrible for me, but I kept them off of Hymn (I assume) and ran Suppression Field into a Force of Will. Later in the game I saw why they had a hand of fetches, and 1 dual. Next turn I land a Choke I stabilize at 7 and completely lock them out with Suppression Field and Energy Field as they are no longer hitting land drops and are tapped down or suppression fielded out of fetches. while i'm down to 7.

Then I explode off of landing an Argothian Enchantress into a Carpet of Flowers (not knowing the pre / post combat trick yet as detailed here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23440-Carpet-of-Flowers-General-Interactions)) I pass the turn. I proceed to win this game by hard casting Emakrul off of carpets.

Long story short this deck can win under those circumstances. Elephant Grass in here plays out like an UBER Moat as it also stops fliers, and many times your opponent can not pay for it. This it due to the fact that either their under a Choke lock or Suppression Field/Elephant Grass interation is stacking them out.

Post board you can bring in Seal of Removal to annoy delvers, although I didn't bother in this match.

This deck also generates the mana to keep it up quite well.

Also, if someone want to cast and use it's flashback ability of Lingering Souls be my guest. I'll just eventually trigger my Defense of the Heart.

The deck is very versatile, and strong. It is too early to say this with any weight, but I do feel it functions better than traditional enchantress list under poor mu conditions because this list runs MD Carpet of Flowers The reason early discard, and early counter magic can be so devastating to enchantress is because enchatress simply does not have the mana to cast everything it want to in the early turns to set-up the CA engine, and those strategies are good at breaking up the engine. This list wastes little to no time in generating mana, or slowing your opponent to a similar pace. Also, in the mid to late game this list explodes past traditional enchantress in the amount of mana it can generate and ultimately the number of cards it can filter / stick.

About Combo: This list does run Suppression Field if landed this will royally mess with all things fetch. In the board we do pick-up Leyline of the Void & Leyline of Sanctity both of which can dampen most combo decks.

Lastly, I wanted to mention that this list really is 5 color that just happens to at this point run 3. There really isn't too much of a reason to limit the design space to just GWU, although I'd prefer it to make Carpet triggers easier to manage.

[Kich867]

This deck is super interesting, and as a prison-deck-sort-of-guy I'm highly intrigued by it. You can probably search my posts and find my thread for NO-DOTH, defense of the heart is godlike!

I love all of the interactions in this deck. Though are 8 island-turning effects enough?

I'm all for any deck that runs main-deck chokes haha.

[Freggle]

This deck is super interesting, and as a prison-deck-sort-of-guy I'm highly intrigued by it. You can probably search my posts and find my thread for NO-DOTH, defense of the heart is godlike!

I love all of the interactions in this deck. Though are 8 island-turning effects enough?

I'm all for any deck that runs main-deck chokes haha.

I will not lie there were games where I got locked out of blue early, and it did suck. Surprisingly though those were games I did not loose. Ultimately it would be better to find a more versatile mana base.

[Madmartigan]

[Edit: I'm silly]

Nice deck.

[264505]

If you need access to green and blue mana without islands, you could use Hinterland Harbor, Flooded Grove, or Yavimaya Coast.

[hyperchord24]

With suppression field and elephant grass both on the battlefield, does this mean an opponent would have to pay 4?

[Freggle]

With suppression field and elephant grass both on the battlefield, does this mean an opponent would have to pay 4?

In looking into this further I think I would have to revise my earlier comments, and say no your opposed does not have to pay 4 because Elephant Grass is a static ability and not an activated one. I believe this is true also for the act of paying the mana. Much like paying the extra mana for Trinisphere.

Suppression Field would however interact negatively for us for with Seal of Removal at the time of sacrifice as I believe that is an activated ability.

I am not a judge however, so I would wait for a more definitive answer or post this question in the proper Card rulings / Interactions forum.

[rufus]

Does Manamorphose work well in this deck?

How do Lingering Mirage, Sea's Claim and Convincing Mirage compare to Phantasmal Terrain for you?

[waSP]

Why Energy Field over Propaganda?

Suppression Field affects Seal of Removal, does not affect Elephant Grass.

[Kagehisa]

HI guys, MUC player here !

Nobody knows the card, I guess...

May I suggest Quicksilver Fountain ? (MUC players love Island :laugh:)

At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player puts a flood counter on target non-Island land he or she controls of his or her choice. That land is an Island for as long as it has a flood counter on it.
At the beginning of each end step, if all lands on the battlefield are Islands, remove all flood counters from them.

Note : "The land stays an Island until the flood counter is removed, even if Quicksilver Fountain leaves the battlefield." Source : Gatherer.

I hope it helped lol

[hyperchord24]

The "Each player" part could run into problems with choke on the battlefield.

[Freggle]

Why Energy Field over Propaganda?


Energy Field Stops so much more because it prevents damage. Propaganda just slows attacks unless we are in lock down mode.

Damage prevention Field provides extends past creatures. Like burn for example targeted or untargeted. Most if not all burn lists roll over to this cards resolution. They can not send anything to our grave. ... you get the idea.

The thing I wish it stopped which I do not believe it does is Tendrils of Agony. Tendrils causes life loss whereas Field prevents damage.

I'll respond to all the others after work.

[wcm8]

Why 2 Emrakul? Why not a different Eldrazi/other big creature, or simply just one Emrakul and more Defense of the Heart?

Why not Solitary Confinement? Or Replenish? Or Sterling Grove? I think that there are some cards from the 'normal' Enchantress deck that should definitely be played here.

As mentioned, Sea's Claim or Lingering Mirage are better than Phantasmal Terrain.

[tsabo_tavoc]

Why 2 Emrakul? Why not a different Eldrazi/other big creature, or simply just one Emrakul and more Defense of the Heart?

Why not Solitary Confinement? Or Replenish? Or Sterling Grove? I think that there are some cards from the 'normal' Enchantress deck that should definitely be played here.

Because one needs to search for another Emrakul if one is in hand.
I also think 4 Elephant Grass and 4 Solitary Confinement (instead of Energy Field) should be in the protection slots.
Also, Oblivion Ring is all around a better answer than Seal of Removal.

[hyperchord24]

Well confinement can't (shouldn't?) be dropped early like an energy field. I think.

[Freggle]

Does Manamorphose work well in this deck?

How do Lingering Mirage, Sea's Claim and Convincing Mirage compare to Phantasmal Terrain for you?

I don't think Manamorphose is right. I could be wrong, I'm just not sure if that is the best way of going about fixing some early mana issues.

All the cards mentioned are better I have updated the OP.


Because one needs to search for another Emrakul if one is in hand.

That is correct, however wcm8 also raises a good point in is it better to have 2 Emakrul as opposed to 1 Emakrul and 1 other creature?

I like the double Emakrul because it is the best finisher especially when you consider we can turn Karakas into an island. I also like the fact that it does give mill decks a little more to worry about, though 1 Surgical Extraction on their part would still do the trick on both.

I just like that it gives mill decks more to deal with though Suppression Field, Choke and post board Leylines.

They also help from accidentally milling ourselves.


I also think 4 Elephant Grass and 4 Solitary Confinement (instead of Energy Field) should be in the protection slots.
Also, Oblivion Ring is all around a better answer than Seal of Removal.

Yes given the poor interaction of Seal of Removal and Suppression Field I think it is best to swap the Seals to Oblivion Rings. I have updated the OP.

I personally prefer Energy Field in this list because this is more of a tempo enchantress build with a prison-like "lock" whereas the traditional lists are more of a "control" list. As in they control their game state. As Hyperchord24 points out Solitary Confinement is functionally very similar, but requires more mana and more set-up. You better have an enchantress in play in order to cast it or have two copies, or some other plan otherwise your just stalling.

The deck I built eliminated fetches for two reasons 1 Suppression Field & Choke are strong enough to warrant their exclusion & 2 I wanted to eliminate anything going to the graveyard to break Energy Field. I can drop an Energy Field as early as turn 2, and force my opponent to have to deal with it (tempo). Whereas I can not with Solitary Confinement.

Now there are many matchup where that is not the correct way to play the deck, but there are also many where it is. Goblins, Burn, Maveric... All of those have to deal with it in order to attempt to win, and Goblins and Burn just can't.

I have also played Energy Field with the combo of Wheel of Sun and Moon in the past, but I had found it just wasn't worth it. If something could kill my Energy Field it could also kill my Wheel of Sun and Moon and they would two for 1 me. WoSaM just doesn't do enough for a slot because even in the MU where you would think you would want it Dredge you still have Elephant Grass, Leyline of the Void, depending on the Dredge build Leyline of Sanctity, Defense of the Heart & Energy Field to help tempo you to a win.

Why do you think Solitary Confinement should be played over Energy Field? I'm asking because even though I'm pretty certain Energy Field is the right call, I'd love to be convinced otherwise because I do like playing with confinement.


If you need access to green and blue mana without islands, you could use Hinterland Harbor, Flooded Grove, or Yavimaya Coast.

I too have thought of this, but the more non-forests the list runs the riskier it is to run Utopia Sprawl a quality acceleration tool. Is there someone out there that is savvy with mana bases that can help me figure out what the proper amout of blue sources would be so we can go about this logically?



Why not Solitary Confinement? Or Replenish? Or Sterling Grove? I think that there are some cards from the 'normal' Enchantress deck that should definitely be played here.

I commented above about Solitary Confinement, but as for Replenish & Sterling Grove they are not tempo cards.

Do not get me wrong. They are very powerful, but what would I get back with Replenish that I couldn't just dig for? In testing my yard stays fairly empty by design. If I were to run Replenish I'd run Intuition and you'd have a completely different combo-y deck.

Sterling Grove is a great protection piece, but with this deck I want to be the aggressor, and put my opponent on their heals to where they have to fight to protect themselves not the other way around like the traditional "control" enchantress lists. I also do not run a toolbox to fully utilize Grove. ...and the Suppression Field/Sterling Grove interaction is too much to bear.

[tsabo_tavoc]

I personally prefer Energy Field in this list because this is more of a tempo enchantress build with a prison-like "lock" whereas the traditional lists are more of a "control" list. As in they control their game state. As Hyperchord24 points out Solitary Confinement is functionally very similar, but requires more mana and more set-up. You better have an enchantress in play in order to cast it or have two copies, or some other plan otherwise your just stalling.

The deck I built eliminated fetches for two reasons 1 Suppression Field & Choke are strong enough to warrant their exclusion & 2 I wanted to eliminate anything going to the graveyard to break Energy Field. I can drop an Energy Field as early as turn 2, and force my opponent to have to deal with it (tempo). Whereas I can not with Solitary Confinement.

Now there are many matchup where that is not the correct way to play the deck, but there are also many where it is. Goblins, Burn, Maveric... All of those have to deal with it in order to attempt to win, and Goblins and Burn just can't.

I have also played Energy Field with the combo of Wheel of Sun and Moon in the past, but I had found it just wasn't worth it. If something could kill my Energy Field it could also kill my Wheel of Sun and Moon and they would two for 1 me. WoSaM just doesn't do enough for a slot because even in the MU where you would think you would want it Dredge you still have Elephant Grass, Leyline of the Void, depending on the Dredge build Leyline of Sanctity, Defense of the Heart & Energy Field to help tempo you to a win.

Why do you think Solitary Confinement should be played over Energy Field? I'm asking because even though I'm pretty certain Energy Field is the right call, I'd love to be convinced otherwise because I do like playing with confinement.

Solitary Confinement hoses combo; Solitary Confinement does not die to Wasteland or Defense of the Heart. Although its drawback is obvious, it guarantees to buy you a turn, if not more.

[MagIsi]

Then I explode off of landing an Argothian Enchantress into a Carpet of Flowers (not knowing the pre / post combat trick yet as detailed here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23440-Carpet-of-Flowers-General-Interactions)) I pass the turn. I proceed to win this game by hard casting Emakrul off of carpets.


I'm confused by the usage of Carpet of Flowers

Deckbor.org says
"At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls."

While Magiccards.info reads
"At the beginning of each of your main phases, if you haven't added mana to your mana pool with this ability this turn, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls."

Which would influence how the trick should work (or not).

whats correct here?

[hyperchord24]

Might it be worth running forbidden orchard for blue sources to help with defense of the heart?

[Nonex]

.

[waSP]

I think the important question to ask when comparing two cards that fill a significant role in the deck is what matchups are improved/disimproved by running this or that card.
Energy Field over Confinement:
Improved: Goblins, Burn
Worsened: Anything with Wasteland, anything with hand removal, anything with counters.
Not significantly affected: Maverick probably?

This is maybe something for the rules forum, but WoSaM will cause itself to go to the bottom of your library if destroyed. The game doesn't know it's not in play until it has already done its replacement effect.

[heroicraptor]

I'm confused by the usage of Carpet of Flowers

Deckbor.org says
"At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls."

While Magiccards.info reads
"At the beginning of each of your main phases, if you haven't added mana to your mana pool with this ability this turn, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls."

Which would influence how the trick should work (or not).

whats correct here?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5858

Gatherer is correct.

[Freggle]

I think the important question to ask when comparing two cards that fill a significant role in the deck is what matchups are improved/disimproved by running this or that card.
Energy Field over Confinement:
Improved: Goblins, Burn
Worsened: Anything with Wasteland, anything with hand removal, anything with counters.
Not significantly affected: Maverick probably?

This is maybe something for the rules forum, but WoSaM will cause itself to go to the bottom of your library if destroyed. The game doesn't know it's not in play until it has already done its replacement effect.

I think this is a good way to look at it. ...and as for the Wheel of Sun and Moon replacement effect question I found this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?9476-Wheel-of-Sun-and-Moon-does-it-effect-itself).

According that old Rulings forum post WoSaM's replacement effect will place WoSaM on the bottom of the library.

Forbidden Orchard has always been in the list.



Solitary Confinement hoses combo; Solitary Confinement does not die to Wasteland or Defense of the Heart. Although its drawback is obvious, it guarantees to buy you a turn, if not more. Having run Energy Field in a number of enchantress lists I can say you fear counterspells the most.

So much so many times you may just draw and pass until you have another in hand, or an E grass or whatever which is still fine for this deck.

This list worries very little about Wasteland. Can it and will it happen? Sure, but there will be more times where Suppression Field will keep your opponent off of Waste. If they are on non-color mana and not MUD you should be winning, and can force them to use it or loose it with a sea's of some kind or an S Field. before dropping E Field.

Discard you will most definitely want to bring in Leyline of Sanctity because with discard usually comes Sac effects, and that one card hoses both.

[waSP]

The earlier point I wanted to make with Propaganda over Energy Field is that if you're doing your job, it will improve some of your worse matchups (while disimproving some of your very good matchups). You'll lose more games/matches to burn but you'll win more against aggro control. You should do about the same against goblins.

Manamorphose sounds like a good idea for the deck (if you don't get a CoB/FO/US opening which should be 15% of your openers--Manamorphose would drop that number to about 7% if I'm doing my calculations correctly--anyway). This deck seems like it wants to cycle through cards pretty quickly to get to its Chokes, etc. You could run 8-12 cycle cards (MM, Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith), but the life loss might get excessive. Gitaxian would be able to tell you if you're safe to do things like play Energy Field/Choke or if you want to try to draw out the counter with other spells. It can certainly help you to be a better player.

But in the same vein, what about Ground Seal? It fits better into a shell with Solitary Confinement as it's very good at sustaining card draws.

Why only 3 Chokes? That is the most important card for the game plan, right?

What about Jace, the Mind Sculptor over Defense of the Heart for the kill? Especially if you run on Propaganda, it will be very hard to attack you. I know you really enjoy playing with Defense of the Heart, but is it the best possible win condition. Playing with Jace would free up a slot or two and has the added benefit of acting like spot removal sometimes.

[Freggle]

What about Jace, the Mind Sculptor over Defense of the Heart for the kill? Especially if you run on Propaganda, it will be very hard to attack you. I know you really enjoy playing with Defense of the Heart, but is it the best possible win condition. Playing with Jace would free up a slot or two and has the added benefit of acting like spot removal sometimes.

Just so the thread does not go off on a tangent Jace, the Mind Sculptor is nothing but activated abilities, and does not play nice with Suppression Field. Defense is triggered, and wins relatively on the spot.

I'll respond to the rest after work.

[waSP]

I didn't think we'd have too much trouble paying 2 for Jace's ability. I haven't had the chance to test yet, but are you usually tight on mana?

[Freggle]

I didn't think we'd have too much trouble paying 2 for Jace's ability. I haven't had the chance to test yet, but are you usually tight on mana?

This is true, but sometimes it's 4, 6, or even 8.
Suppression field is our best tool against Plainswalkers, and equipments so I tend to stack them out early when possible.


The earlier point I wanted to make with Propaganda over Energy Field is that if you're doing your job, it will improve some of your worse matchups (while disimproving some of your very good matchups). You'll lose more games/matches to burn but you'll win more against aggro control. You should do about the same against goblins.

I understood that, but if the deck is doing it's job that means you landed a few island enchants, and a Choke. It happens fairly often but sometimes you just need a "wall" or an obstacle for your opponent to get through while you set that up. So I still think Energy Field is the right call.

Also, by the time we are at that phase of the game and we wanted that type of effect we would probably rather have Solitary Confinement as we would likely be able to support it. Energy Field is just more flexible in it's usage so it is just less dead more often.


Manamorphose sounds like a good idea for the deck (if you don't get a CoB/FO/US opening which should be 15% of your openers--Manamorphose would drop that number to about 7% if I'm doing my calculations correctly--anyway). This deck seems like it wants to cycle through cards pretty quickly to get to its Chokes, etc. You could run 8-12 cycle cards (MM, Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith), but the life loss might get excessive. Gitaxian would be able to tell you if you're safe to do things like play Energy Field/Choke or if you want to try to draw out the counter with other spells. It can certainly help you to be a better player.

But in the same vein, what about Ground Seal? It fits better into a shell with Solitary Confinement as it's very good at sustaining card draws.

I'm warming to the idea of Manamorphose except that it goes to the graveyard. As does Gitaxian Probe, and Street Wraith. Street Wraith also has the added problem of cycling (an activated ability) Maybe these should be tried, but the interaction of Energy Field and Suppression Field (very good cards for the deck) is a strong enough deterant for me not to test them right now.


Why only 3 Chokes? That is the most important card for the game plan, right? No, I'd say Carpet of Flowers & the enchantress effect cards are the most important cards for the deck. If a Carpet of Flowers is landed i'm probably going to win because then I cycle through my deck pretty quickly hitting 1 of the 3 Choke. Many times contol is out of gas by the time I try and stick a Choke.

They also don't do anything in multiples so I think 3 is just fine. A 4th copy wouldn't be terrible, but I'm not sure if it is the best use of the card slot.


What about Jace, the Mind Sculptor over Defense of the Heart for the kill? Especially if you run on Propaganda, it will be very hard to attack you. I know you really enjoy playing with Defense of the Heart, but is it the best possible win condition. Playing with Jace would free up a slot or two and has the added benefit of acting like spot removal sometimes.

I'm open to alt win cons, but Emrakul is quite good. He also functions like spot/board removal.

[smoky squirrel]

Instead of the CoP: Red in sideboard, I would play Solitary Confinement (same matchups you mentioned + added protection vs combo).

I would change the 2 Emrakul to 1 Emrakul + 1 Progenitus. This way you put 2 creatures into play with Defense of the Heart that have some form of evasion and protection, instead of an awkward Emrakul and Enchantress.

[bkemke]

I play tested with Freggle over the weekend and wanted to talk about some of the results.

This deck blows out any stoneforge deck! Suppression Field really slows down development. A second turn suppression field slows my development to a grind while he was able to develop his board and setup a win.

The only games it was even close revolved around going 1-1 with the deck in the early turns. Discard, counter or deal with threats as they appear. I was only able to win on the back of a soft lock with Academy Ruins + Engineered Explosives.

Also, Defense of the Heart is a great alternate win condition. Even when I was able to deal with his enchantresses, Defense of the Heart came out of nowhere to finish me.

The early testing reveals a strong game against Stoneforge. Next we will test how it performs against Maverick.

[Freggle]

Instead of the CoP: Red in sideboard, I would play Solitary Confinement (same matchups you mentioned + added protection vs combo).

I like this plan. I knew after playing with the deck I would never board in Circle of Protection: Red I just didn't know what to fill the slots with. I'm not sure all 4 should be Solitary Confinement but I think it's a good idea to explore at least 2-3 slots dedicated to this card.


I would change the 2 Emrakul to 1 Emrakul + 1 Progenitus. This way you put 2 creatures into play with Defense of the Heart that have some form of evasion and protection, instead of an awkward Emrakul and Enchantress.

In some ways I feel this is right, but in many others I do not. Even though Progenitus can be hard casted in this deck it is not what I would call easy. It would require a couple of simultaneous Carpet of Flowers activations. Also, with the amount of draw this deck has it will be in your hand often.

Emakrul's shuffle ability is very useful. There are many times where this deck can draw through the entire deck every turn. Without the shuffle the entire graveyard into your library clause this deck could run into serious issues.

It may be best to have (1) Emakrul & (1) Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. this way we still get the shuffle effects, and don't roll over to a well timed Surgical Extraction. ...oh, and even though it looks bad don't be fooled by the power level of putting another (or your first) enchantress into play. Many times it's just the gas the deck needs to ensure a win.


I play tested with Freggle over the weekend...

For full disclosure I ran the list in the OP with the following change.

-1 Suppression Field
+1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

I never boarded. I never felt I had to.

I have found when this deck really gets going you discard a lot at the end of your turns negating Energy Field Running (1) Wheel of Sun and Moon makes the deck a lot stronger.

Also, there was a game where I did turn Karakas into an island FTW.

This trick also halted Academy Ruins messing up may day a few games.

Against blue decks Carpet of Flowers feels like an every turn Time Walk. As in you have a pre-combat main phase (turn 1) tapping lands. And a post combat main phase (turn 2) off of Carpet of Flowers activations. Doing it this way allows you to maximize the deck by converting as many lands into islands pre-combat, and dropping additional carpets pre-combat to get uber mana post combat.

It's fairly easy to dig pre-combat find an Emakrul and post combat hard cast him off of multiple carpets or carpet / Serra's Sanctum or any combination thereof.

It's pretty fun.

Edit: I have also play tested fairly extensively against Zoo. I know it's not a popular deck right now, but I keep mine sleeved up. I would also consider this match highly favorable. Turning dual into islands shrinks Zoo's team into tiny 1/1's They also can not stop the inevitable Choke. Suppression Field gives fetches and Qasali Pridemage a hard time while Elephant Grass & Energy Field slow their attack even more until I can win. I don't bother to board here either.

[That_RaginG_Homo]

Could a version of this deck more focused on a lock work? Im thinking running the Island/Choke package and Back to Basics with Elephant Grass, Proproganda, and In The Eye of Choas (unfortunately cutting white) could be decent, and it seemed ok in testing as well. It would also up the blue count high enough for Force of Will if you wanted to side that in v combo or blue decks or something.

[Freggle]

Could a version of this deck more focused on a lock work? Im thinking running the Island/Choke package and Back to Basics with Elephant Grass, Proproganda, and In The Eye of Choas (unfortunately cutting white) could be decent, and it seemed ok in testing as well. It would also up the blue count high enough for Force of Will if you wanted to side that in v combo or blue decks or something.

Running Back to Basics with Forbidden Orchard & City of Brass will not work.

There might be a stronger lock version that could work though. Also, I have been brewing enchantress builds for years if not a decade, and Force of Will has never seemed right to me in these decks. In the Eye of Chaos will handle combo just fine if landed.

I have been playing this deck quite a bit, and it is very good. It is currently my top pick to take it to Star City Orlando next month, and likely GP Atlanta in June/July.

There are some tweaks I will likely make, but since I have been able to win in a wide gambit of MU's as a result of the mix I currently run I'm not sure if there will be any more changes main.

I think the sideboard needs to be totally blown up because in almost all matches I feel the main is the best deck to run opting not to SB which means I'm giving myself poor SB options.

The Leyines seem like too much of a risk in this build because they royally mess with the curve of the deck and ultimately it's explosiveness.

If I had to take a stab at what the board would look like now if I were to re-tool it it would be something like this:

1 Elephant Grass
1 Energy Field
2 Enlightened Tutor - Gets answers, like Pressence against sac effects. WoSaM prior to E. Field...
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Surgical Extraction - Maybe a way to fight combo, and find value in quite a few other MU's
2 In the Eye of Chaos - Only for combo and Discard I'd play though control, but is this better than Leyline of Sanctity?
4 Leyline of the Void - it's just too good at what it does

This way I could just bump up the effect of what I'm already doing to make that MU just a little bit more strong. Like adding the 4th E. Field and 2 Enlightened against Affinity/Burn/Gobblins...

Edit: I should also mention that I'd like to run Surgical Extraction preferably as a 3 of in the SB just to extract g2 just to see what hate they brought in to plan accordingly G3.

I would also like to find a spot for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in the board, because I feel that (2) Emrakrul's main is right mainly because the extra turn on hardcast. This way if someone is able to extract Emrakul G2 (or I guess G1) I have an alternative.

[Freggle]

I have made the following Main Deck adjustments and I'm very happy with them. I have updated the OP.

-1 Suppression Field
-1 Choke

+1 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

The deck remains functionally the same. These changes add more consistency / resiliency to the plan.

Enlightened Tutor does a number of things.

Against burn / affinity / Maverick it can dig up a Energy Field to keep your opponent on their heels to consistently find an answer, or just outright lock them out.

Against Discard / Sac Effects. It hides Enchantress's Presence on the top of the deck so that you may top deck to keep the engine going.

Against Dredge it finds Wheel of Sun and Moon

Or against blue it finds the Choke it replaced. It's just a wildcard, and in testing proving to be a very useful one.

Wheel of Sun and Moon is there to enable the Wheel of Sun and Moon / Energy Field combo, and limit the exposure of Emrakrul in the yard (I'm scared of Surgical Extraction) It does sometime target my opponent when they get too happy with their own.

The Sideboard is blown-up at the moment. I'd love to hear any more feedback / improvements people see out there.

[waSP]

Why only 1 Enlightened Tutor if it seems so useful?

[Freggle]

Why only 1 Enlightened Tutor if it seems so useful?

I haven't upped the Enlightened Tutor count for a few reasons.

It's not the best top deck with an active Energy Field sans Wheel of Sun and Moon.

It IS card disadvantage.

And the deck does a good job in morphing into what the match-up needs through CA as is. ...and each card does play a role in it. It feels like a delicate balance. This includes the mana base which does perform remarkably well. Sure an early Wasteland hurts bit that hurts quite a few decks.

Now having said all of that I'm still considering a second in either the 4th Spreading Seas slot, or possibly the second Choke slot. (you only need 1 and it is CMC 3)

...but for now I'm testing 1 main and 2 board. This opens up the board a bit in that we do not have to depend on Leylines when we can somewhat count on e tutoring into a WoSaM for example.

This frees up innovation in how we approch combo. should we run discard out of the board?

[Freggle]

Over this past week I tested quite a bit against a Pox list with Hymn, Smallpox, Pox, Innocent blood, BloodGhast, Hexmage / Dark Depths.

I'm surprised to say this match is favorable. It was pretty easy to avoid an early back braking hymn by turning swamps into islands. Later, once the draw engine was set-up Hymns only hindered not crippled.

I even won some games facing down a 20/20 Merit. Holding him off by either chaining Elephant Grasses or Energy Field.

After testing many matches with the list in the OP I tried the following modification:

-1 Spreading Seas
+1 Enlightened Tutor

This gave the deck more flexibly, but it makes it play a bit more reactively. You never want to waste an E. Tutor on the wrong thing. I will keep this change and continue to evaluate it.

Since I now feel that this deck can win under heavy discard & sacrifice effects I'm moving Leyline of Sanctity out of the board in lieu of some more quality Combo hate in Ethersworn Canonist.

This will allow this deck to fairly consitantly threat a T2 Canonist post board. (t1 E. tutor -> Canonist or canonist in hand)

I may also add in Arcane Laboratory to the board (easier to cast off of Utopia Sprawl then Rule of Law) to give combos Echoing Truth plan a run for it's money.

I'm also considering the 4th Defense of the Heart in the board to bring in the combo MU's because Orchard / Defense is the main plan and best way to win under the stifled card draw.

That give us Arcane Laboratory, Suppression Field, Ethersworn Canonist, Choke to mess with combo.

Board still in flux, but I'm ruling things out.

I hope to test extensively against Maverick this weekend.

Is anyone else messing around with this list at all?

[Freggle]

I hope to test extensively against Maverick this weekend.

Didn't get to play nearly as much Magic this weekend as I would have liked.

I played about 12 or so main deck matches against Maverick, and the match up seems to be just about dead even.

Whomever played first won 100% of the time. MVP's were Suppression Field & Energy Field

Things that worked too well against us was Aven Mindcensor (on Enlightened Tutor & Defense of the Heart) & Thalia, Guardian of Thraben on the deck.

Does anyone have any good side board suggestions to give us the edge in this MU?

My current SB is

4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Energy Field
1 Elephant Grass
1 Defense of the Heart
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
1 Arcane Laboratory

[Freggle]

This week I tested against Sneak & Show. This match-up is favorable to even.

MVP's are Suppression Field, Choke, Carpet of Flowers & the island enchants.

This deck can win through a resolved Emrakrul by dropping an Emrakul of it's own by evoking the Legend rule, racing permanents with Energy Field / Wheel of Sun and Moon out, or through Choke / Elephant Grass

My favorite game was won off of dropping an Emrakul of my own off my opponents Show and Tell -> Progenitus. This drop gave them exactly 6 permanents and exactly 15 life.

These matches are exciting. The pilot of this deck just has to put faith into top decking off of enchantress draws favorably in the face of fatties. Odds are you will.

In this Match up oblivion ring could come in for Emrakul / Sneak attack, but you should definitely bring in the 3rd choke.

My current Sideboard is the following:

4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Energy Field
1 Elephant Grass
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
2 Journey to Nowhere
1 Arcane Laboratory

The decks major problems are problematic creatures therefore Journey to Nowhere seems fitting over more Oblivion Rings.

This SHOULD help with Mavericks Thalia, and possibly swing that MU to favorable post board. Testing will tell.

[rufus]

Have you seen the recently spoiled Abundant Growth -- it seems generically better than Utopia Sprawl?

[HPB_Eggo]

It is. I like. Will definitely be used in normal lists, as well as make all the three-color variants more viable.

[Nonex]

No. Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl provide extra mana, Abundant Growth only fixes it.

[rufus]

No. Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl provide extra mana, Abundant Growth only fixes it.

Yeah. Missed that. OTOH Abundant Growth Cantrips.

[Darkenslight]

I'm pretty sure that it would be a meta call between the two: the question you'd have to ask yourself is "is drawing a card on the first turn worth more than having the extra mana on turn 2?"

[Freggle]

So as planned I took this deck to the Star City Games Legacy Open : Orlando yesterday.

All in all I went 4-3-1 to place 47th.

Please do not read the fairly lack-luster record as an indication of this decks potential.

It should be noted that I had friends in town and played Magic from Wed. night straight through Sun. Legacy event with an average night of sleep being roughly 5 hours. Needless to say I was VERY TIRED.

Wheel of Sun and Moon & Energy Field combo caused many people to scoop, and I won through some pretty disgusting board states with it.

Match 1 Dredge: 2-0:1-0

Game 1: I go Forest Utopia Sprawl go. He goes City of Brass Cabal Therapy. ...now I know these cards, but i'm so tired I say it resolves and proceed to lay my hand on the table as thought it was targeted discard. Like I said I was tired. Showed a number of lands an Elephant Grass, and and Energy Field. He tells me that is not how it works and I feel stupid and TRY to wake up. He names Elephant Grass (big mistake) and passes turn.

T2 I drop Energy Field and he plays a few turns and scoops when I drop Wheel of Sun and Moon Targeting myself.

Game 2 I board in Leylines of the Void and drop two at the start of the game. (no lands)

Play a few turns I assemble Energy Field WoSaM combo and Defense into an Emrakul he scoops.

Starting to wake up on adrenaline.

Match 2 RUG Delver: 1-2:1-1

I play Bronson the first Modern GP winner and I steal game 1 when I assemble WoSaM playing around Daze.

The next two my fate swings. Not sure how he boarded oustide I met Thoughtscour. That thing sucks for both Enlightened Tutor and Energy Field sans WoSaM. I soft lock him for a number of turns with an E. Field only. Things are looking up. I decide since I have a another E. Field in hand I EoT an Enlightened Tutor to make it a hard-lock looking for WoSaM. Bronson finds his little window and burns for lethal. He played stellar against this rouge deck gathering all the info he could trying to make me mess up and or talk about it. This actually wakes me up.

I compliment his play, and this is where I find about his GP title.

Game 3 he's got the nuts. I play though 5 counter spells just to resolve an E. Field to make me think I'm about to stabilize then I'm thought scoured, and it goes south from there.

Perhaps somewhere in there I could have played better to get this one, but I just didn't. Should have just rode the E. Field and cared more about City of Brass Damage. That would have likely have done it.

Match 3 Merfolk 2-0:2-1

Not much to talk about both games revolve around the E. Field WoSaM combo resolving and my opponent conceding.

Match 4 RUG Delver 2-0:3-1

G1 My opponent get the wrong nuts draw by turn 4 or 5 I'm looking at 3 flipped Delvers and a Tarmagyof. ... unfortunately for him I'm also looking at an Energy Field. I stick WoSaM and he concedes.

G2: I assemble WoSam / e. Feild but no conceed (perhaps bounce?) so I start stacking them. He plays 3 creatures and I drop my Defense of the Heart, and next turn tutor up Emrakul. Concede.

Match 5 RUG Delver 0-2:3-2

When I played Brandon I was so excited to show a good player my deck post match that I did so we can talk about choices and he wanted to know.

Little did I know I'd play his friend next to him later that day.

Game 1: I keep a 1 lander but stabilize on a resolved Carpet of Flowers. It's not quite enough to get out of Pierce / daze range though and a super juicy fully tapped out Choke eats a double daze :(

I loose never saw land 2

Game 2: I think I stabilize the board with a stuck E. Field, but Thought Scour ruins my day. We talk about the deck and it very good potential.

Round 6 Mangara / Karakas Stoneblade 1-1:3-2-1

Super long game 1 I assemble E. Field / WoSaM while my opponent assembles Karakas / Mangara.

He starts exiling the combo staring with WoSaM (not sure why) then I find a simple island enchant (Sea's Claim) I turn the might Karakas into an island and reassemble the combo. Eventually tutor up an Emrakul and swing a number of times to a fully stocked board and finally connect for lethal.

6 mins. left in the round I choose not to slow play and board in stally things so full e. fields / e. grasses ... Big mistake. I have to mull to 4 to find a land and my opponent lands a t2 Thalia. Take a sword hit from a suited up Thalia with FaI and cringe. I dig with an Argothian out dropping a Carpet of Flowers. I find the 3rd land to drop E. Field next turn.

Oppnent swings I block with Argothian and he has 1 more turn to do 5 damage so I drop E. Field and think I have it. he EOT E. Tutor and O. Rings :(

draw. Should have slow played.

Round 7 Esper Stoneblade 1-2:3-3-1

So I actually get paired with my friend who gets 16th place, and was the reason I forced myself to go to the tournament. Tired, Hungry, and down over my lack of slowplay decision I ask if he just want to die roll. He say no lets play.

Not thrilled with the idea nor wanting to concede we do. I have an early blow out G1 with the combo online and Defense on the prowl.

G2: I have to mull to 5 to find a land, and I play it. T1 Toughtseize hurts. I'm threat-less, and staring at an opponent with a full hand of blue. He goes all in on Jace and gets there.

Game 3: Similar Mull to find action to 5. He keeps at 7 an early Thoughtseize Nabs my Argothian. I'm doomed I have 4 lands and keep drawing land. He drops a Jace and starts Fate stealing. I discretely play a WoSaM and he doesn't care. I'm setting him up. Next turn I play an Elephant grass he doesn't care.

I now know a Jace Ultimate does not seal the game / Match as I can choose during my upkeep not to pay for E grass and I can draw it in my draw phase. So I slow play a bit to time. Before time he ultimates and my library is Emrakul, Emrakul. I draw both Emrakuls and time is called and he is pissed that I don't conceed then the shenanigans begin. I don't pay for E grass and it goes to my lib. I draw it he's shocked and pissed. The judge even gives the whoa face.

So he starts Jace Brainstorming. Even counter magic does not break this up. he finds an Engineered Explosives and set it for two and blows it. I say OK um WoSaM goes tot he bottom of my Library.

Next turn I draw it, and play it. He Pierces it. I pay the two. He brainstorms. It resolves. It win or draw time.

Then final turn he digs with about 3 brainstorms to finds the singleton Repeal and repeals the WoSaM at the end of turn. and I loose to the draw clause.

Good times.

Round 8 Stasis 1-0:4-3-1

Still tired, hungry and just not wanting to play I move on.

I play a super annoying deck he calls stasis yet I never see stasis.

I get the Forbidden Orchard / Defense of the Heart combo online early but he has a cloudstone Curio in play which allows him to bounce them.

So I take advantage of an no drawback 5 color land and start stacking the enchantress effects. he swings at me with the two tokens I gave him for many turns. and widdles down my life. Then he chain of vapors my E. Field I use to stabilize, but I sac a land to bounce his Curio. He looks stunned. I quickly give him 3 token guys. and he swings at me 5 That was stupid I should have done it Eot or in response to Curio being cast. This puts me to 5. He plays Claws of Gix and sacrifices 3 of the tokens to gain 3 life. Side stepping Defense once again. He them plays some owl artifact that if you have 7 or more cards in hand you loose 4 life. This puts me to 1.

Knowing it's now or never I start stacking Enchantress's to dig for WoSaM. I go off and draw almost my whole deck, and play 3 E Field and 2 WoSaM's off of Serra's Sanctum and Carpet of Flowers activations I land a choke with him tapped out and pass turn. EOT I give him dudes but I choose not to activate Defense becuase I want to hardcast Emrakul for the extra turn. Time is called. I win with Emrakul swings.

All in all the deck is a blast. I should find room for Runed Halo in the board or main just to buy time or get around Jace.

Thanks for reading.

[Ppa0]

Thanks for the report, I was very curious how this deck would do and seems like it has great potential. Few questions though, after playing it at a tournament and doing a lot of testing, do you think this deck would benefit from running few of the usual enchantress win conditions, like a singleton Words of War and/or Sigil of the Empty Throne. Also is the deck you ran exactly the same as the one in the opening post?

[Freggle]

Thanks for the report, I was very curious how this deck would do and seems like it has great pote ntial. Few questions though, after playing it at a tournament and doing a lot of testing, do you think this deck would benefit from running few of the usual enchantress win conditions, like a singleton Words of War and/or Sigil of the Empty Throne. Also is the deck you ran exactly the same as the one in the opening post?

Excellent question. Same as OP with 1 very important change.

-1 Spreading Seas
+1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

As far as the traditional enchantress cards. ...Im not sure. Running the Island enchants legitimizes the main deck Chokes and Carpet of Flowers. Cutting the suite changes the deck drastically.

Sigil is too hard to cast and sucks in hand early. I would much rather have the second Emrakul over that.

But a words of war in a Supression Field slot might be good.

I'll test it when Im less burnt out on MTG.

Edit: Actually I like that a lot. Ping Delvers or Plainswalkers in leu of draw to sidestep discarding with an Energy Field out seems AMAZING.

[bowvamp]

Hey, so I've got a version of this with a couple of changes that I've been testing. I like how it's inexpensive yet powerful against a lot of the meta.

The things I've been testing are Yavimaya Coast in lieu of City of Brass, Green Sun's Zenith over Enchantress's Presence, and Wurmcoil Engine replacing the 2nd Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I also cut the Wheel of Sun and Moons to go for more consistency at establishing a soft lock early on and trying to combo out fast. With GSZ, you get presence that can also be Dryad Arbor. Unfortunately, it doesn't draw you cards, fortunately if you've got an enchantress effect out already you should be winning.

[Freggle]

Took this deck to a local store tourney today and just missed the top 8 out of 30 some.

I'd like some help with it if anyone is willing.

This is the list I ran:

Creatures (6)

4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments (34)

3 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Suppression Field
3 Defense of the Heart
2 Choke
4 Energy Field
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Elephant Grass
4 Sea's Claim
2 Spreading Seas
3 Carpet of Flowers

Instants (2)

2 Enlightened Tutor

Lands (18)

4 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest

Sideboard (15)

4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ethersworn Cannonoist
2 Journey to Nowhere
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Null Rod
1 Choke
1 Acracne Laboratory

Matches in short:

2-0 Combo Elves

First glimpse run fizzels and looses to Defense -> Emrakul
G2 Close to time was going to be a draw, but gives it to me

1-1 GW Maverick

G1 Lock him out with Wheel / field defense -> Emrakul

G2 Loose to a swarm and well times qasali's

Time called

2-0 Elves with Natural Order

Defense Emrakul both games.

1-1 Reanimator with Gizzy

G1 Lock out a horde of fatties with field/wheel and win off a defense - > Emrakul

G2 loose to an reanimated Iona on green. I came down through a T0 Leyline and T2 Wheel on opponent.

5 mins left I offer a draw since it would be more likely I would loose quick the win quick he goes for it.

we play for fun and I land an early defense with orchard and win. oops [shrug]

0-2 Hypergenisis / Show and Tell

G1 lost to t2 show ->emrakul

G2 almost won legend ruled emraul, defense into emrakul. hypergenisis -> terestadon and los



All in all I think to safe to say as is this is a tier 2 deck. I'm hoping with some help it could become a tier 1.5.

I will be looking to find a spot for a [cards]Sterling Grove or two.

[Darkenslight]

How badly are the CoBs hurting you, mana-wise?

[Freggle]

All in all not that bad. Once you get the Wheel of Sun and Moon / Energy Field lock online as the pilot your in good control of how your life is spent.

If I play with Sterling Grove now that is two tiers of damage hate an opponent has to get through in order to do damage to me. Grove -> E. Field. (WoSaM will put itself on the bottom)

Now having said that there are two sanctioned games in which you could say that City of Brass did do the lethal point of damage to me. G2 of my first RUG delver match at SCG - Orlando, and G2 of Hypergenisis / Sneak and Show.

Perhaps that is too many. Adding grove I think would add more overall consistency to the deck, and more protection to the lock, but is there anything you are pondering as an alternative?

I really feel this is a few cards shy of a tier 1.5 deck.

[Bruticus]

Since you're playing Wheel of Sun and Moon, I'd try Gemstone Mine over City of Brass.

[Freggle]

Since you're playing Wheel of Sun and Moon, I'd try Gemstone Mine over City of Brass.

I'll try this later in the week and report back.

[Freggle]

Since you're playing Wheel of Sun and Moon, I'd try Gemstone Mine over City of Brass.

I'll try this later in the week and report back.

list.

-4 City of Brass
-2 Suppression Field

+4 Gemstone Mine
+2 Sterling Grove

I have played the deck with the above changes for around 8 matches. Replacing CoB with GM does make the deck play differently, but overall better.

I never once lost an Energy Field as a result of a loss of counter nor was I put in a position where that could happen. I always used CoB sparingly so using GM has been an improvement.

Swapping Suppression Field for Sterling Grove seems to be working, but it is too early to tell. Having the extra tutors / combo protection seems to be stronger than activated ability disruption. The mana lock Supperssion field provides does not happen often enough to warrant the possibility of it's exclusion. I will continue with this change assessing the slots. However, if this does stick Seal of Removal should be in the 75 again somewhere for tall the Tinker like decks out there today.

Next I will be assessing my current sideboard strategies. Given that there are currently 3 MB Wheel of Sun and Moon I will look to drop Leyline of the Void from my board.

I will also try to find room for Counterbalance / Sensei's Divining Top OR In the Eye of Chaos OR Erayo, Soratami Ascendant in the board over my current combo hate package since my current package does not synergize well with the overall enchantress plan.

I would love to hear any suggestions to raise the tier level of this deck.

PS - I did try Abundant Growth for a bit. The fact that it was not ramp and just color fixing made it not worth the slot.

[Bruticus]

It runs counter to the Defense game plan, but with all the fetches and tutors in the format have you considered Stranglehold?

[Freggle]

It runs counter to the Defense game plan, but with all the fetches and tutors in the format have you considered Stranglehold?

I have not. Stranglhold would work in conjunction with the Defense of the Heart plan since it reads opponent. However, the effect for the cost seems a bit underwhelming especially when every one is dropping cards from their hand (Show and Tell and not from their deck Natural Order)


Hey, so I've got a version of this with a couple of changes that I've been testing. I like how it's inexpensive yet powerful against a lot of the meta.

The things I've been testing are Yavimaya Coast in lieu of City of Brass, Green Sun's Zenith over Enchantress's Presence, and Wurmcoil Engine replacing the 2nd Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I also cut the Wheel of Sun and Moons to go for more consistency at establishing a soft lock early on and trying to combo out fast. With GSZ, you get presence that can also be Dryad Arbor. Unfortunately, it doesn't draw you cards, fortunately if you've got an enchantress effect out already you should be winning.

Reading through the thread again and seeing this with fresh eyes have you tried Natural Order with Progenitus as your second Defense of the Heart target over Wurmcoil Engine?

This deck can draw large amounts of cards (so you can discard Progenitus if he gets in your hand) and can generate copious amounts of mana so you can Green Sun's Progenitus outside of the fast Natural Order.

This seems to go hand in hand with your soft lock fast win plan. I may try this version if my other version falls short.

I intend to update the primer shortly to discuss card choices in depth, and the overall progression of the deck. Currently it's largest weakness is to fast combo. Namely Show and Tell / Hypergenesis and targeted storm.

The deck has an inherent ability to beat dredge given the main deck Wheel of Sun and Moons, Elephant Grasss, and Energy Field. Therefore I think it's time to re-think the entire sideboard and remove Leyline of the Void

Here is where I am currently at, and is play testing very solidly:

Creatures (6)

4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments (33)

4 Energy Field
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Elephant Grass
3 Sterling Grove
3 Defense of the Heart
3 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sea's Claim
1 Choke
3 Carpet of Flowers

Instants (2)

2 Enlightened Tutor

Lands (19)

1 Karakas <---- Main board big guy / Thalia hate.
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest

Side Board (15)<---will be 15

3 Oblivion Ring
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 In the Eye of Chaos
4 Seal of Removal
1 Defense of the Heart
? Combo Slots -- Mystic Remora & Mindbreak Trap?

So the Journey's and Seals are an adjustment to the current fast big scary guy meta. This will give me more game against those decks.

Oblivion Ring is in there of more of the same, but can answer an Ensnaring Bridge or any other annoying permanent.

I could really use help as to how best beat combo. It seems like combo is ready for all the permanent ways to deal with them like Ethersworn, but I don't know a good alternative for this deck. I'm open to Solitary Confinement main or board, but I think it will run into more of the same.

So I'd say right now aggro is beat. Control is favorable, and combo needs the most help.

So should it be Mindbreak Trap / Duress / Thoughtseize / Flusterstorm? I'm open to ideas.

[phazonmutant]

This deck looks awesome!

I have a couple of questions though:
- You started the deck based on the idea of Spreading Seas + Choke + Suppression Field for mana denial, but the most recent version has removed all but 1 of those. What happened? Are people just too good at running few lands?
So if that's the case, why is this better than MUC? Athens Blue runs Energy Field pretty successfully, and it gets to run Back to Basics as well.
- If you're an Enchantress-type deck, why aren't you running max Enchantress's Presence?
- What do you think of 1 or 2 Land Tax and Solitary Confinement? This build looks like it's focused on Energy Field, but Solitary is better if you can set it up properly.


If you're looking to beat Show and Tell and Hypergenesis, you need to get some Humility in the deck. Sb 2-3 should be sufficient. S&T will play bounce, Hypergenesis will play Terrastadon and/or Angel of Despair, so you'll want Sterling Grove in play as well. Keep in mind that if you have Sterling Grove in play when Terastadon ETB, the only legal targets are your lands, Sterling Grove, and whatever he has - he can't nug Sterling Grove and then Presence or whatever.

For ANT, TES, and Belcher, I think the best you're going to be able to do is Leyline of Sanctity and Elephant Grass combined with Sterling Grove. You'll just have to hope that he can't set up and find a bounce spell and find the mana before you can find and play Sterling Grove. Obviously, Solitary stops both the Empty plan and the Tendrils plan on its own, but doesn't start in play. The Empty plan usually won't kill you before his turn 3. Into the Eye of Chaos is garbage and doesn't even stop TES if they're on the Burning Wish plan. Their only instants are Brainstorm and Ad Nauseam postboard (not gonna keep in Chants).
Mindbreak Trap is not stellar. They expect to have to Duress you or Chant you first, so the only way you're ever resolving Mindbreak Trap is if you have Leyline of Sanctity and they don't have Silence (doesn't target). You have to be on the plan of overloading their bounce spells. They'll board in 2-4, but then they have to find them before you find Sterling Groves and have the mana to cast them.
Keep in mind the two most common storm decks are Belcher and TES, followed by High Tide and ANT.
I have no idea how you're beating High Tide. Hope to resolve Choke? When they combo off, expect them to be able to find 2 bounce spells.

[Freggle]

This deck looks awesome!

Thank you. I find it to be oftly fun, and highly competitive.


I have a couple of questions though:
- You started the deck based on the idea of Spreading Seas + Choke + Suppression Field for mana denial, but the most recent version has removed all but 1 of those. What happened? Are people just too good at running few lands?

You are right. The deck did start out with a high prison quality to it, and has slowly drifted from it.

The drift is a work in progress however.

All the island enchants are not THAT great against blue mages. for example, and ultimately not what you need to be doing against Maverick players as well. So I started trimming them down. I started with Spreading Seas because it was the one that had a higher CMC. I found lowering them did not lower the overall potency of the deck. As a matter of fact swapping those slots for Energy Field & Elephant Grass copies number 4 was the right thing to do. It allows the deck to stabilize earlier rather than hope for the long game and lock.

This still feels like the right thing to do.

I also then found that Wheel of Sun and Moon & Energy Field just out right beats more decks than you would think. If it's landed you win. So I started upping the WoSaM over Suppression Field. I can say without a doubt that upping the WoSaM is most certainly the right call, but over SF I'm still assessing it.

Suppression Field is good at slowing the game down, but not winning it. Stacking them was usefull for plainswalkers but it was slow. Hitting fetches was nice but not game breaking. WoSaM Just packed a bigger punch.

I cut the last 2 SP to make room for 2 Sterling Grove recently. This gives more overall consistency to the deck as a result of the tutor function, and more stability because of the shroud. Is this right? It's far to early to tell, but I'm thinking it may be.


So if that's the case, why is this better than MUC? Athens Blue runs Energy Field pretty successfully, and it gets to run Back to Basics as well.

To be honest I was not familiar with Athens Blue till I read this. I'm approaching this from an enchantress point of view and not a control perspective.

I'm a little confused as to how Energy Field would work well with counter magic without WoSaM, but I read it hit a T8 in 2011 so I guess it does.

From what I have read on MUC it runs out of gas about mid game. Break down their early disruption and you win. I can say without a doubt that this enchantress build is exactly the opposite. It has an aggressive start that only builds stronger and stronger.

A back to Basics Enchantress build with an alt wincon may be better.




- If you're an Enchantress-type deck, why aren't you running max Enchantress's Presence?

My goal is to push Enchantress back to Tier 1 status. In order to do that you need a deck that is more consistent than the traditional enchantress. My approach to this issue is to develop wincons that can be used outside an enchantress effect.

Currently if your opponent can deal with the enchantress effect via counter magic, or edict effects ... traditional enchantress flops miserably. This version does not. The enchantress effects are there more to ensure it's inevitability. No play a role in it's win.

Therefore it is no longer the thing to counter, but it will eventually win you the game.

Since this deck does not hinge on the resolution or sticking an enchantress effect nearly as much 3 EP is more than sufficient.


- What do you think of 1 or 2 Land Tax and Solitary Confinement? This build looks like it's focused on Energy Field, but Solitary is better if you can set it up properly.

It's the set it up properly that is the point. SC + LT gets you nowhere without an enchatress effect in hand and an enchantment in your hand. You skip your draw step.

Running E. Field allows us to stabilize sans an enchantress.



If you're looking to beat Show and Tell and Hypergenesis, you need to get some Humility in the deck. Sb 2-3 should be sufficient.

This will disrupt our Emrakul wincon. Seal of Removal seems pretty sweet here. So easy to drop, and works on a lot of stuff. Once the deck gets going you can drop one to 4 every turn. It gets into a recur loop.


S&T will play bounce, Hypergenesis will play Terrastadon and/or Angel of Despair, so you'll want Sterling Grove in play as well. Keep in mind that if you have Sterling Grove in play when Terastadon ETB, the only legal targets are your lands, Sterling Grove, and whatever he has - he can't nug Sterling Grove and then Presence or whatever.

I ran into this in my last tournament when I was not running grove. This is part of what has sold me on grove's inclusion.


For ANT, TES, and Belcher, I think the best you're going to be able to do is Leyline of Sanctity and Elephant Grass combined with Sterling Grove. You'll just have to hope that he can't set up and find a bounce spell and find the mana before you can find and play Sterling Grove. Obviously, Solitary stops both the Empty plan and the Tendrils plan on its own, but doesn't start in play. The Empty plan usually won't kill you before his turn 3. Into the Eye of Chaos is garbage and doesn't even stop TES if they're on the Burning Wish plan. Their only instants are Brainstorm and Ad Nauseam postboard (not gonna keep in Chants).
Mindbreak Trap is not stellar. They expect to have to Duress you or Chant you first, so the only way you're ever resolving Mindbreak Trap is if you have Leyline of Sanctity and they don't have Silence (doesn't target). You have to be on the plan of overloading their bounce spells. They'll board in 2-4, but then they have to find them before you find Sterling Groves and have the mana to cast them.
Keep in mind the two most common storm decks are Belcher and TES, followed by High Tide and ANT.
I have no idea how you're beating High Tide. Hope to resolve Choke? When they combo off, expect them to be able to find 2 bounce spells.

Thanks fort this input. I just have not had any luck with this plan. I will test it though. ...but this was pre-grove. As for high tide I never squared off against them with this list.

If they do brainfreeze however I do have 2 Emrakul.

[waSP]

Can you talk about what you still find strong about Sea's Claim now that you've cut Spreading Seas?

[Darkenslight]

Is there a place for Greater Auramancy in the SB, as a potential hard-lock?

[Freggle]

A bit pressed for time but I wanted to answer these:

Can you talk about what you still find strong about Sea's Claim now that you've cut Spreading Seas?

Sea's claim still fuels Carpet of Flowers which is instrumental to this decks mid-game explosion.

It provides cheap disruption to black discard based decks. A know bad enchantress MU that wasn't bad with earlier builds (haven't tested with Spreading Seas-less builds)

Also deals with special lands like Karakas which has happened in two sanctioned games now FTW. see also Gaea's Cradle.

It does suck that sometimes Emrakul's anihilator does allow claims / spreading to go to your yard killing field, but you are likely winning at that point anyhow. ...and I haven't lost as a result of this.


Is there a place for Greater Auramancy in the SB, as a potential hard-lock?

There may be over Sterling Grove. If I'm not mistaken 2 groves is also a hard lock. ...but Sterling Grove has been clunky to cast from time to time. I like how Greater Auramancy can be cast off of a Serra's Sanctum alone. I'll keep this in the back of my mind when looking at how grove is functioning (or not functioning) in my build.

[waSP]

To answer Karakas, you could run an alternative guy along with Emrakul. Maybe Progenitus?

Have you considered an alternative acceleration engine (maybe Eladamri's Vineyard over Sea's Claim/Carpet of Flowers now that you're no longer going for a hard lock? Although it doesn't really play very nice with Elephant Grass (they can do stuff and still maybe attack). It could free up a few slots which could be used to help with Sterling Groves and Energy Fields. You could run Abundant Growth or Fertile Ground as fixers. It's not as game-breaking, but it could be an incremental improvement for the early/mid game to make you more consistent. Abundant Growth is a cantrip and Fertile Ground acts like Utopia Sprawls 5-8.

Also, Replenish is very strong with the number of Wheel of Sun and Moon you have. You should consider 1-2 as your build continues to move towards a more aggressive version of the typical build.

[nosfell]

i use 2x Wild Growth to make more consistent the early and less mulligan.

current list:
4 Argothian Enchantress
3 Enchantress's Presence
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Defense of the Heart
4 Energy Field
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Elephant Grass
3 Sterling Grove
4 Sea's Claim
1 Choke
1 Suppression Field
2 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Carpet of Flowers

20land in here.
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Serra's Sanctum
11 Forest

SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 3 Journey to Nowhere
SB: 4 Seal of Removal
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Elephant Grass
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity

maybe need another win con other than Emrakul in main or SB

[phazonmutant]

As a matter of fact swapping those slots for Energy Field & Elephant Grass copies number 4 was the right thing to do. It allows the deck to stabilize earlier rather than hope for the long game and lock.
That's reasonable. It's good you've found a gameplan and are building to maximize it.


I also then found that Wheel of Sun and Moon & Energy Field just out right beats more decks than you would think. If it's landed you win. So I started upping the WoSaM over Suppression Field. I can say without a doubt that upping the WoSaM is most certainly the right call, but over SF I'm still assessing it.
I can see how it's good against Dredge and Reanimator game1 if they give you the time to get it down, but at the end of the day, isn't Energy Field + Wheel a two card combo just like Solitary Confinement + Land Tax / Argothian Enchantress / Enchantress's Presence? The difference is that the latter cards are good on their own and you have more of them.


Currently if your opponent can deal with the enchantress effect via counter magic, or edict effects ... traditional enchantress flops miserably. This version does not. The enchantress effects are there more to ensure it's inevitability. No play a role in it's win.
You're right that the Defense of the Hearts add the ability to just win that traditional Enchantress builds don't. But you're thinking about the Enchantress effects backwards! They don't need to win you the game, they're either Hymn to Tourach or Tidings! Your opponent either has to dramatically tilt his deck to kill them / spend multiple cards to counter them, or you'll get so far ahead of him on cards that it's difficult for him to win. If he spends resources countering Presence, you can drop Defense of the Heart and lol. It's like Glimpse in the Elf deck - just by playing your deck you're drawing cards!


It's the set it up properly that is the point. SC + LT gets you nowhere without an enchatress effect in hand and an enchantment in your hand. You skip your draw step.
Running E. Field allows us to stabilize sans an enchantress.
I guess if you're just using Energy Field to fog for a couple of turns then it's definitely better. I'm just not a huge fan of running a 2-card combo that doesn't do a whole lot on its own. I don't think it would be unreasonable to have 1 Solitary that you can Grove for though.

Re: Humility:

This will disrupt our Emrakul wincon. Seal of Removal seems pretty sweet here. So easy to drop, and works on a lot of stuff. Once the deck gets going you can drop one to 4 every turn. It gets into a recur loop.
Look, you asked how to beat Sneak and Show and Reanimator. Humility is the best card in the format for that. They're faster and more consistent in getting a fatty into play than you are, but you don't actually need that much to hard-lock them if you have Humility. I think you should board out Emrakuls and Defense and board in Humility and some sort of alternate win condition. It's unfortunate they play Emrakul because otherwise you could just deck them by hardlocking them and having Wheel. Have you thought about Helix Pinnacle since you can generate such an obscene amount of mana?

High Tide can easily win with BSZ for a billion, so Emrakul isn't relevant.

You're correct that 2 Sterling Groves means none of your enchantments can be targeted. The only answers I've ever seen played for situations like that are like EE on 2 and Reverent Silence. Sterling Grove is probably one of the best cards in your deck - very reasonable to play more. Maybe -1 Defense, -2 Wheel for +1 Grove, +1 Helix Pinnacle, +1 Solitary Confinement?
You could possibly substitute a Mirri's Guile for Emrakul to help prevent you from drawing him. You have enough card draw that discarding Emrukul to shuffle him back in doesn't seem unreasonable.

[nosfell]

Helix Pinnacle
thx i have my alternat wincon for the 2nd game plan, too much possible solution for emrakul.

[Freggle]

list.

I like where this is going, and it is good to see others testing. Are you experiencing similar results? Typically crushes aggro, favorable to fair against control (pending openers and builds) and need to be lucky to beat combo?



I can see how it's good against Dredge and Reanimator game1 if they give you the time to get it down, but at the end of the day, isn't Energy Field + Wheel a two card combo just like Solitary Confinement + Land Tax / Argothian Enchantress / Enchantress's Presence? The difference is that the latter cards are good on their own and you have more of them.

No. Solitary Confinement is at minimum a 3 card combo. Solitary Confinement + Argothian Enchantress (or equivalent) and an uplayed enchantment. Even then you have to have a string of luck draws not to eventually sacrifice confinement.

Land Tax will not progress the game. You would only pull lands out of your deck play some discard others not draw and pass the turn. Eventually you would run out of lands and sac. Confinement. Next overall use virtually zero.

As for the cards being good on their own? Confinement is not good all on it's own and is dead early game. Land Tax is decent, and would work best with Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library, but on it's own it does something. ...but Enchantress's do nothing on their own, but I get your point you want to run more of them anyhow. So as far as the deck it is a dual purpose slot.

If you would like to read more on this topic you can read about it in the Enchantress (Solitaire) thread here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-Deck-Solitaire-(Enchantress)/page156). I also have comments in there on earlier pages about this type of build.





You're right that the Defense of the Hearts add the ability to just win that traditional Enchantress builds don't. But you're thinking about the Enchantress effects backwards! They don't need to win you the game, they're either Hymn to Tourach or Tidings! Your opponent either has to dramatically tilt his deck to kill them / spend multiple cards to counter them, or you'll get so far ahead of him on cards that it's difficult for him to win. If he spends resources countering Presence, you can drop Defense of the Heart and lol. It's like Glimpse in the Elf deck - just by playing your deck you're drawing cards!

Actually that is exactly how I think about Enchantress. I just think the further you separate the win from the draw the stronger the deck against control. It's not a hymn though, but I get the point.

This takes away the deck singular focus and is tougher to beat. Enchantress's in this build are nothing more than draw spells. Not win combos. This gives the deck something relevant to do with all cards regardless of board state, and removes the clause that enchantress's best opener is forest / sprawl /forest argothian / enchantment.

That's a lot of durdle in one of the most important parts of the game.



I guess if you're just using Energy Field to fog for a couple of turns then it's definitely better. I'm just not a huge fan of running a 2-card combo that doesn't do a whole lot on its own. I don't think it would be unreasonable to have 1 Solitary that you can Grove for though.

It is my contention that it does do more on it's own then Solitary confinement. Wheel of Sun and Moon meddles with graveyard shenanigans, and helps us not draw our libraries. Energy Field fogs until delt with.



Re: Humility:

Look, you asked how to beat Sneak and Show and Reanimator. Humility is the best card in the format for that. They're faster and more consistent in getting a fatty into play than you are, but you don't actually need that much to hard-lock them if you have Humility. I think you should board out Emrakuls and Defense and board in Humility and some sort of alternate win condition. It's unfortunate they play Emrakul because otherwise you could just deck them by hardlocking them and having Wheel.

I got-cha. ...and thank you for the help. It's just that is also shuts off Argothian Enchantress it's still better than loosing though. It's just a hard pill to swallow to go down that route.



Have you thought about Helix Pinnacle since you can generate such an obscene amount of mana?

It's funny you should ask I have, it's just I haven't found an infinite enchantress combo that would be sweet.



High Tide can easily win with BSZ for a billion, so Emrakul isn't relevant.

Well, not that it's super relevant. You could do the Elephant Grass or Sterling Grove out with a Wheel of Sun and Moon to get something to the graveyard (correction Library) before your draw then make it to discard and put your deck back. ...but that's not super awesome.



You're correct that 2 Sterling Groves means none of your enchantments can be targeted. The only answers I've ever seen played for situations like that are like EE on 2 and Reverent Silence. Sterling Grove is probably one of the best cards in your deck - very reasonable to play more. Maybe -1 Defense, -2 Wheel for +1 Grove, +1 Helix Pinnacle, +1 Solitary Confinement?
You could possibly substitute a Mirri's Guile for Emrakul to help prevent you from drawing him. You have enough card draw that discarding Emrukul to shuffle him back in doesn't seem unreasonable.

Given the amount of cards drawn I'm not sure if Guile is right.

[Freggle]

In testing this weekend (I did not make it to GP Atlanta due to work travel complications) I had the following observations:

- The deck is at it’s weakest within the first 4 turns of the game

o Decks like Sneak and Show, Show and Tell / Hypergenisis, reanimator all prey on
this window and current builds are just far too slow for these MU’s
- The mana base in these tighter games can be frustrating.

o Since you have a very tight window in these MU’s your mana is less forgiving I have been re-evaluating the manabase to make the deck overall better.

- Since Reanimator is such an issue I have brought back the (4) Sideboard Leyline of the Void

o Without void our matchup rate was somewhere on the order of 45/55 loosing. With Void its in the area of 60 /40. Therefore as long as this is the meta Void should remain. This will also help with other yard based MU’s where Wheel is too slow / counterable.

- Storm MU is a real problem, solutions posted later.

- This is an enchantress combo deck

o Since I finally realized that this is an Enchantress Combo deck I thought I would try some combo strategies to push our lists agenda.

- Sterling Grove feels a bit too slow for a top deck tutor & shroud is only situationaly useful.

This card has been deemed by me for this build to be too underpowered for it slot currently.



After making minor tweaks all day yesterday, and trying a multitude of things here is the list that I feel is best suited for today’s meta game. I am posting this here to get peoples input to develop this basis to its final optimal list.

Creatures (6)
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants (6)
4 Spell Pierce
2 Enlightened Tutor

Enchantments (30)
4 Energy Field
3 Elephant Grass
4 Sea’s Claim
3 Spreading Seas
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Choke
3 Enchantress’s Presence
3 Defense of the Heart
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Oblivion Ring

Lands (18)
4 Gemstone Mine
3 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Serra’s Sanctum
6 Forest

Sideboard [Not Fully Defined]
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
The rest


I’m sure this list will spur conversation. The shift of this deck is to tempo out the first 4-5 turns to get us to our wheel house and dominate the mid to late game. This will allow us to not get blown out by an early Show and tell as we can now interact with it on the stack.
Inquisition / Pierce should give us substantially more game against combo.
Inquisition also allows us to pull threats from RUG delver before they are threats giving us more time to lock them out with wheel / field and or choke. As opposed to the struggle we face now we face with their tempo cards. Here pierce flips the script and forces through our combo / lock pieces as opposed to slowing the game.

I’m still working on a new primer, but the deck is evolving a bit too much to post it. I’d love to hear peoples thoughts. I feel this is going in a good direction.

[frogger42]

Just read over the thread; let me say, awesome that you threw in Suppression Field into Enchantress. Looks like someone beat me to the punch. Oh well.

I looked over the latest list, and I think you want to be careful about the Inst/Sorc (+Sterling Grove, Solt Conf) you end up throwing in here. Your opponent will obv take advantage of playing their game-breaking spells before their attack phase, and try to make you crack your own Energy Field FTW. It's still your option how you play, but the more Inst/Sorc you run means the more your deck will stomp on its own feet instead of playing optimally when it needs to. I think in an optimal build of this there may be 1-2 cards (hopefully none) you should be mindful of with Eng Field when you don't have WoSaM, cause it makes round 6+ that much easier for you to snooze through. Otherwise, I'm nuking your Wheel all the time 'cause it's really the linchpin of your gameplan.

I know I play this in practically every deck I build, but how about Chrome Mox? Imprint WoSaM will give you white, which can mean a T1 Suppression Field. SF on T1, on the play, makes your RUG opponent's Wastelands more valuable than their Fetches, and generally causes ROFLs. Even though Field slows them down a bit, taxing their mana both ways w/Elph Grass (1-2 Ghostly Prison?) will make them decide to crack a fetch or attack each turn, kind of a nightmare for Spell Pierce and the like. Also T1 Enchantress should come out pretty naturally, but I worry about hitting your other relevant white cards T1. The disruption's probably generally more valuable T1, 2 than worrying about card advantage.

For that same reason, I wouldn't bother with Mox Diamond or other accelerants here. Another way to make you kill your own Eng Field. Good luck!

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I think Sup Field may be sub-par most games because 90% of ppl don't enforce it right. I think I hit 80%-ish of its relevant targets, cause it taxes Wasteland's sac (to protect your Forb Orch), Sensei's Top (total ROFL-copters), Jitte/Stoneforge Mystic/ Equipping, your own Sterling Groves, Wirewood Symbiote, (planeswalkers, as prev mentioned) and like a million other things that I still probably miss. Just take a look through the top 4-5 decks ahead of time and try to catch all the act abilities in each one, it's a total b****, but it's what you have to do to make it good. When you play RandomJank.dec, you're bound to miss 50% of those targets off the bat, so just play a ton of random games to try to spot them.

[novatinhu]

Hi anyone tried alternate wincon as enchantmens?

I think the best's are:

- Puca's Mischief + Illusions of Grandeur (Very good)
- Helix pinnacle (take a lot of time, 2 or 3 turns)
- Luminarch Ascension
- Sacred Mesa
- Sigil of the Empty Throne (Very good)


My current test list is:

// Lands

7 Forest
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
1 Karakas
1 Serra's Sanctum

// Creatures

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells

4 Spreading Seas
4 Energy Field
4 Sea's Claim
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Elephant Grass
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Puca's Mischief
1 Illusions of Grandeur
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Choke

[Dihensoeur]

Hi all,

I have some suggestions:

- Stony Silence (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stony%20Silence) in side ?
- Cursed Totem (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cursed%20Totem) in side for Elf/Maverick ?
- Crop Rotation (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Crop%20Rotation) ? To
-- Get more faster Orchad,sanctuary or Karakas
-- Double Orchad or sanctuary effect (tap it, then crop on it, the go get another (or the same if there is Wheel of sun and moon), then tap it again)
- Iona + Emrakul instead of 2 Emrakul ?

[Freggle]

Dihensoeur & novatinhu, thank you for your input. I have been spending a fair amount of my time revisiting and discussing in the Established Solitare (Enchantress) thread here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-Deck-Solitaire-(Enchantress)&p=660593#post660593).

I have been doing so to see if there is a good enough reason to be so very different from the traditional lists. ...and at this point I'd have to say I'm unsure.

This list does a two main things better than traditional enchantress:

* It accelerates much faster
* It can win without landing an enchantress [This has been useful on a fair amount of occasions]

This is offset however by it doing the following:

*More deck slots are dedicated to the kill
*The deck does accidentally kill the pilot from time to time.
*the deck does have some synergy issues [Island enchants with annihilator and E. Field]

So in short. When it works it's very fun and fast, when it doesn't it not so much.

So maybe there is something to learn from Standard Enchantress's consistency, and look to make a hybrid list.

While on a flight today I jotted the very rough 61 card list down:

Mana (18)
11 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Savannah

Instants (4)
[i]Fixers
4 Manamorphose

Creatures (4)
4 Argothian Enchantress

Sorceries (2)
2 Green Sun's Zenith - More shuffles for the guiles

Enchantments (33)

acceleration
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Sea's Claim
3 Enchantress's Presence


The Stall
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Energy Field
4 Elephant Grass
2 Back to Basics - We don't have to work nearly as hard against Maverick anymore.

Fixers
3 Mirri's Guile

The Wins (2)
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne -& draw out

I proxied it up on Cockatrice and it still plays the same. It explodes very fast. It does have trouble winning after a quick lock out (searching for the win con) I love how the deck revolves around Back to Basics and basic lands. It gives the deck a much stronger footing (less of a glass cannon) and still hoses a lot of decks with greater ease.

The list certainly needs some tweaking, but there is a ton of potential here.

FYI - It should be noted that island enchants do not change lands supter type (basic or non-basic.) So if you were to enchant Karakas with Sea's Claim for example Back to Basics would still tap it down.

[waSP]

You could replace Mirri's Guile with Sensei's Divining Top and run a singleton Words of Wind as a backup win condition. Those would have good synergy with Energy Field.

[Dihensoeur]

@Freggle : I would like your opinion on my suggestions.

Energy Field (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Energy%20Field) can be played without Wheel of sun and moon.
Because :
- Enchantress doesn't play many non-basic land.
- Only creatures with shroud.
- Play enchantment and so few instant/sorcery spells.
- Energy Field (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Energy%20Field) is to gain time and not to be invincible (Energy Field (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Energy%20Field) can't make us invincible even with Wheel).

And so you get slots from Wheel.

Puca's Mischief (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Puca's%20Mischief) can be played without Illusions of Grandeur (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Illusions%20of%20Grandeur) and can "kill" (get creatures/planeswalker/... from opponent).

[waSP]

Energy Field without Wheel is susceptible to Wasteland (because we DO have nonbasics), discard, counter, and us overdrawing (likely to happen and likely to be significant with 1-2 kill conditions and no tutoring). One of these things is likely to happen against most decks. Burn may be the only exception...

You would need Time Warps to make Puca's Mischief actually work unless you could give the creature Shroud. They will just take it right back. It also doesn't play nice with Sterling Grove (requires targeting).

[JBulko]

You would need Time Warps to make Puca's Mischief actually work unless you could give the creature Shroud. They will just take it right back. It also doesn't play nice with Sterling Grove (requires targeting).

Puca's Mischief does not switch controllers, and only works for it's controller. on top of that it is a 'may' ability. It works as the original poster intends.

[Freggle]

So I took the weekend to test all sorts of enchantress variants. I ran the gambit from straight-up traditional (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-Deck-Solitaire-(Enchantress)), to traditional variants, and variants of this list.

Over the weekend I had experimented with the following kills:

Words of Wind
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Sigil of the Empty Throne
White Sun's Zenith

Very strangely hard casting Emrakul in this build seems to be the easiest and the best.

Sigil required too much action post sigil and didn't offer the extra turn to "just win"

Words of Wind required too much set-up and not enough win, and does not work well with Island enchantments.

White Sun's was the second runner up, but just seemed inferior in the slot.

As mentioned above the original version of the deck was difficult to pilot and lost games due to the damage that was inflicted upon one self. Since this was tied to the mana base & win condition booth had to be altered.

This list below is explosive, and goes off faster than the original version, and can ramp out Emrakul somewhere after turn 5.

Please bear in mind this is not a fully tuned list, but is a basis for discussion.


Maindeck:

Creatures (9)
4 Argothian Enchantress
3 Cloud of Faeries - A somewhat risky play unless on the go off turn or have WoSaM in play
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifact (1)
1 Pithing Needle - This should be upped.

Enchantments (31)

The Lock
2 Choke

The Stall
4 Elephant Grass
4 Energy Field
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon

The Ramp
4 Carpet of Flowers
4 Utopia Sprawl

Disruption / Ramp
2 Spreading Seas
4 Sea's claim

Draw
4 Enchantress's Presence

Mana (19)
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Misty Rainforest
10 Forest
2 Island
1 Karakas

Things to note:

-This list does require an enchantress effect to win.
-Cloud of Faeries is an excellent ramp card untapping Serra's Sanctum or a Utopia Sprawled forest... or both.
-Pithing Needle - Although not an enchantment it cheaply deals with Sneak Attack, Deed, EE, Jace....
-I will try seeing if Daze is good in the board or main.
-I can see Gitaxian Probe or Surgical Extraction being good to name Needle targets

That's where I'm at. I'll keep you posted.

[rufus]

-I can see Gitaxian Probe or Surgical Extraction being good to name Needle targets

I don't understand what needle would do to those.

[Poron]

neither I can see what Gitaxian Probe and Surgical Extraction have in common...

[Freggle]

I don't understand what needle would do to those.

neither I can see what Gitaxian Probe and Surgical Extraction have in common...

My apologies. I typed in short last night to write the adjustments in the time I had, something I try to not do.

I feel there is a loose synergy between Surgical Extraction or Gitaxian Probe & Pithing Needle in that probe or extraction will allow you to gather more game information to name the proper card.

Typically if enchantress faces down an Engineered Explosives (EE) or Pernicious Deed (deed) good players will drop it and pop it on the same turn not giving the enchantress player the time to react.

Gitaxian Probe (see their hand) and more so Surgical Extraction (See their hand & library) will allow the pilot to gather the game information to correctly name the correct card proactively, and cheaply to keep the engine rolling.

Also, as discussed in the Solitaire thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-Deck-Solitaire-(Enchantress)) Surgical Extraction also has the added benefit that it can be an excellent weapon in fighting many fast combo decks that Enchantress typically has problems with. ex. Reanimator, Past in Flames, Dredge, High Tide, anything Intuition based...

Please let me know if any more explanations are needed.

It should also be noted that Pithing Needle if nothing else can further cut opponents off their mana by naming any fetch, and help protect our lands by naming Wasteland

[Dihensoeur]

Suggests:

- 2 Cloud of Faeries (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cloud%20of%20Faeries)
+ 2 Crop Rotation (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Crop%20Rotation)

Have you already try Entreat the Angels (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Entreat%20the%20Angels) ? It's better than White Sun's Zenith (http://deckbox.org/mtg/White%20Sun's%20Zenith).

[Freggle]

Suggests:

- 2 Cloud of Faeries (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cloud%20of%20Faeries)
+ 2 Crop Rotation (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Crop%20Rotation)

Have you already try Entreat the Angels (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Entreat%20the%20Angels) ? It's better than White Sun's Zenith (http://deckbox.org/mtg/White%20Sun's%20Zenith).

I did think of Entreat the Angels however it is (in this build) inferior to Decree of Justice because you will never miracle it given how much we should be drawing, and Decree gives an instant speed out if needed. The single extra mana is marginal when considering all angles.

I like White Sun's Zenith the most because it auto shuffled in (no WoSaM needed), and was also instant speed for surprises. The problem was it would loose to a lot more situations. One of which I keep in mind is the enchantress mirror. WSZ would just suck, where as Emrakul would tear it up. There are plenty of other scenarios to paint, but you get the point.

The other thing was there is a HUGE difference between sinking 15 mana (or there abouts) into a WSZ vs. an Emrakul because WSZ could be countered, and rendered useless. I guess that would be an area where decree's cycling would shine.

The right call when ramping this kind of mana is no doubt Emrakul hands down.

For the record I also tried and abandoned other fringe ideas. My personal favorite was:

Intruder Alarm + Forbidden Orchard + Wind Zendikon for infinite mana to fuel a Helix Pinnacle.

This however ate up too many slots, and didn't really improve any of the decks weaknesses. I guess I'm just typing this out for completeness.

Lastly, I'm open to reducing the Cloud of Faeries but I have to ask have you tried the list? Honestly, in here they are pretty broken on some turns they can net you positive 7-15 mana. Other times you just cycle them to keep the deck rolling. They are good at what they are in here to do.

I do think that the list may want a Crop Rotation for deck flexibility reasons, but it's not needed for the engine. ...so then it becomes a question for what purpose?

Since this list leans heavy on an enchantress effect I might be more inclined to try a Enlightened Tutor (to get presence) more though.

[rufus]

I find myself wondering about Puca's Mischief+Embargo as a way to finish. Clearly Embargo can help keep you alive, and you don't have any problems trading away control of the auras. Though neither of those really help vs. combo.

[Dihensoeur]

You right about Decree of Justice (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Decree%20of%20Justice) (I have forgotten this card).

I didn't tried the list.

For Crop Rotation (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Crop%20Rotation) :
- Get more faster Orchad,sanctuary or Karakas.
- Double Orchad or sanctuary effect (tap it, then crop on it, then go get another (or the same if there is Wheel of sun and moon), then tap it again).
- Cost only one green mana.

[waSP]

If you're leaning on Enchantresses it would make sense to run additional Argothians in the form of GSZ rather than lose an early draw to Enlightened Tutor. It also eases the White requirement of the deck. ET should be thought of more as a way to get your lock set up (or your kill if you're going that route) rather than part of the Enchantress engine. GSZ also interacts better with Energy Field than ET.

Ditto Cloud of Faeries vs. Crop Rotation. Cloud of Faeries is an excellent wall more often than you'd expect.

What is the fundamental turn of this build? Without Confinement/Grove, you're a lot more susceptible to disruption. And with no Replenish, you don't have any out of nowhere comeback ability. The best you can hope for is to disrupt their manabase, really or win 'fair' games with Energy Field/Elephant Grass.

[Freggle]

If you're leaning on Enchantresses it would make sense to run additional Argothians in the form of GSZ rather than lose an early draw to Enlightened Tutor. It also eases the White requirement of the deck. ET should be thought of more as a way to get your lock set up (or your kill if you're going that route) rather than part of the Enchantress engine. GSZ also interacts better with Energy Field than ET.

I see your point, and tend to agree. I might experiment with GSZ more if control does pose a problem in testing, but in actuality the 1st GSZ should be the 3rd Choke since they would be in the deck for the same reasons (counter magic), and Choke handles that and then some all in one card.

After reading most of the enchantress thread on MTG Salvation I may try (1) Worldly Tutor This still nets us an Argothian t2, but can also fish up a Cloud of Faeries or Emrakul.


Ditto Cloud of Faeries vs. Crop Rotation. Cloud of Faeries is an excellent wall more often than you'd expect.

Agreed, Cloud of Faeries also puts this decks turns from absurd to WTF just happened. Untapping a Serra's Sanctum & a Utopia Sprawled forest after dumping a bunch of Carpet of Flowers and subsequently more island enchants off of carpet mana is just insane. Hard casting Emrakuls out of nowhere.


What is the fundamental turn of this build? Without Confinement/Grove, you're a lot more susceptible to disruption. And with no Replenish, you don't have any out of nowhere comeback ability. The best you can hope for is to disrupt their manabase, really or win 'fair' games with Energy Field/Elephant Grass.

It's somewhere between turns 4-6. By that point you should have out multiple WoSaM's and Energy Fields or Grasses, plus mana enchants and island enchants an be hard casting Emrakul, and possibly bouncing him for infinite turns. Even through counter magic. ...but if they hit all the enchantress effects that obviously slows us down.

Instead of grove we run cheap mana accelerents in Carpet of Flowers that produce more than the cost usually in the same turn you play it. It's like a Black Lotus every turn. That is what makes this build so much more explosive.

This allows us to zurg the board with our cheap hate enchantments: grass, E. Field, WoSaM, Counterbalance (currently testing again to improve combo MU)...

So decks can not go one for one with the enchantment production. They will be unable to keep pace by a long shot. The only thing we have to fear is mass removal. In most cases that is an activated ability. EE, and Deed. I fear EE far more than deed because we can usually keep Deed players off of B & G mana, but an EE for 1 would hurt. That is why I would up the Pithing Needles and possibly consider a few Stony Silences in the board.

I would argue that this deck has all the come back ability that Replenish would offer. Not as flashy but could easily come back. If an enchantress effect lasts a board wipe our recovery would be within 2-3 turns of Emrakul mana, and still be pumping out the stalls in between. Very little goes to the grave as a result of WoSaM, so it's all in the deck to just be recast as we do the pre combat / post combat main phase tricks with Carpet of Flowers

I'm also looking into Dovescape as a wincon / piece of disruption to improve combo out of the board.

[Dihensoeur]

I'm also looking into Dovescape as a wincon / piece of disruption to improve combo out of the board.

I don't like Dovescape as a kill because:
- VS blue, It can played FoW for free + Daze => 7 tokens for free.
- VS Equipment (sword, batterskull) you will never win (lifelink on batterskull).
- Opponent can still put creature like StoneForge to get Equip, Snapcaster to make more token, Tarmo, ...

What do you think about:
+ Sneak Attack x4
+ Emrakul x2

With the explosive mana from Carpet of flowers and enchantress drawing, that can be interesting no ?

Cloud of Faeries can blocked (can kill Vendilion clique, Snapcaster and Dark confidant).
Crop Rotation can get Serra's sanctum or other and cost 1 less.

[grokh]

Hi Freggle,

Have you tried the new Avacyn Restored enchantment to fix upur manabase and the lack of blue mana : Abundant growth

It'll make you draw a card and you'll have :u: instead of :g: when needed.

What do you think of it ?

[Dihensoeur]

Now we have the combo Rest in peace + Helm of Obedience = kill turn 3 (I did it many times).
What do you think about it ?

[Freggle]

Dihensoeur , I agree that RiP / Helm is very stron and tests very well in here. I have swithched the mana base to reflect a more stable one and have been experinceing success with this list. My apologies for not linking here. Enchantress with Rest in Peace-Helm (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24692-Developmental-Enchantress-with-Rest-In-Peace-Helm)