[Deck] Zombardment

[Krimson Viper]

I'd say it's a gamble.

Something like Diabolic Intent might be worth looking into as well.

Also, use .

Thanks! I actually play Diabolic Intent and it's too slow and awkward. With Gamble it's still just a single mana and everything that matters, besides Bombardment can be plays from the graveyard.

[Zupponn]

So I took a couple of the ideas in the more recent pages of the thread and came up with this:

4x Blood Artist
4x Bloodghast
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Gravecrawler
4x Tidehollow Sculler

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize

4x Enlightened Tutor
1x Bitterblossom
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Carnival of Souls
1x Contamination

4x Arid Mesa
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Swamp
2x Scrubland
2x Badlands
1x Marsh Flats
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Undiscovered Paradise

I've cut the Faithless Lootings to test out an E Tutor package featuring some of the enchantments that have been discussed recently. I haven't tested it much. and feel that Carnival is probably bad, but it is nice to be able to find Bombardment a lot easier. The Tutors could also open up room for sideboard options like Ethersworn Cannonist and Oblivion Ring as well.

[Krimson Viper]

The amount of life loss from Bitterblossom and Carnival makes them either dead draws/tutors or auto losses to aggro decks, and Contamination will slow down your aggro plan. I would convert those 2 back to 2 Faithless Looting and add another Bombardment. The aggro MUs with this deck are already 50/50 because we barely have any blockers, and barely, if any, life gain abilities.

My $.02.

[Richard Cheese]

I'm bumping this because this deck always looked fun, and now there's this guy:
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/56/224/635329541051450927.png

Is this something the deck wants? It's bad with Bloodghast but seems pretty interesting otherwise. Aggressively costed, can be E. Tutored for, is sometimes a huge guy, is always a mini Enduring Renewal?

[jhhdk]

Not sure synergies are that impressive. I suppose that he likes Shriekmaw and Fleshbag Marauder better.

[Zupponn]

I think i read this somewhere else, but Athreos works a lot better with Mogg War Marshal than Lingering Souls. His ability also doesn't synergize well with either Bloodghast, as mentioned, or Gravecrawler. The cool thing is that the structure of this deck allows us to turn him into a creature with all of the recursion we have as well as protect him from STP by saccing dudes to turn him back into an enchantment.

[Megadeus]

I feel like a deck like this could use him to his max potential, however the deck would probably change alot, because as said, it doesnt actually synergize as well as you would think. Maybe like someone said on the Dead Guy thread you play like Blade Splicer? Splicers, Mogg War Marshals, Doomed Traveler, then random Intangible Virtue?

[Richard Cheese]

I'd like to figure out some way to make his ability a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" choice for the opponent, aside from just the life loss. I want to put them in the position where they don't want to see that creature again (possibly abuse ETB effects?), but also don't want it in your yard for whatever reason. Gravecrawler and Nether Shadow are kinda what I'm going for but I think there's probably something stronger there that I haven't found yet.

[jhhdk]

I'd like to figure out some way to make his ability a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" choice for the opponent, aside from just the life loss. I want to put them in the position where they don't want to see that creature again (possibly abuse ETB effects?), but also don't want it in your yard for whatever reason. Gravecrawler and Nether Shadow are kinda what I'm going for but I think there's probably something stronger there that I haven't found yet.

Was thinking maybe some cards could turn the squee'ness feature into something like that. Pack rat and Lotleth Troll come to mind, but we're suddenly talking 4 card combo so probably useless.

I'm leaning towards Athreos + Zombie allstars ie. Gravecrawler, Carrion Feeder, Tidehollow Sculler, Lotleth Troll

[Myelectronicdays]

So lately I've been trying to think of a deck that was close to aristocrats that was in standard last block... A deck I actually enjoyed alot. I guess I wanted to find something that abused blood artist again. Am I crazy to give this deck a run? Looks fun as hell

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[RPGbudgie]

Went 3-1 with this deck at a local Monday night legacy tournament.

I lost 2-0 to burn the first match. Not much to say here, this deck is horrible against burn. None of the creatures block and I play 1 basic land. Game 2 was close with lethal on the board but a topdecked fireblast got there.

I won 2-1 against GWb maverick. Game 2 he got double rest in peace and I couldn't fight through it. Cabal therapy did great work every game. Game three was close, three hasty ghasts out from the graveyard won the game, though.

I won 2-0 against Mighty Quinn. Discard and abrupt decay got there both games with recursive threats.

I won 2-0 against reanimator. Game 1 I blind called reanimate with a therapy and hit his only reanimation spell. More discard lead to a win with quick beats. Game 2 he had a turn 1 elesh norn, however I had a surgical extraction and he had no daze or force back up. Opponent was very surprised :cool:

The deck ran pretty well. Cabal therapy is by far the strongest card in the deck. It wins more matches than hymn.

I never assembled gravecrawler+goblin bombardment. I think I only profitably used bombardment in a single game. That's not to say the card is weak, I love it--it's just got a giant target on it for removal. I run 4 in the main and I wouldn't go below that, ever.

[Myelectronicdays]

Went 3-1 with this deck at a local Monday night legacy tournament.

I lost 2-0 to burn the first match. Not much to say here, this deck is horrible against burn. None of the creatures block and I play 1 basic land. Game 2 was close with lethal on the board but a topdecked fireblast got there.

I won 2-1 against GWb maverick. Game 2 he got double rest in peace and I couldn't fight through it. Cabal therapy did great work every game. Game three was close, three hasty ghasts out from the graveyard won the game, though.

I won 2-0 against Mighty Quinn. Discard and abrupt decay got there both games with recursive threats.

I won 2-0 against reanimator. Game 1 I blind called reanimate with a therapy and hit his only reanimation spell. More discard lead to a win with quick beats. Game 2 he had a turn 1 elesh norn, however I had a surgical extraction and he had no daze or force back up. Opponent was very surprised :cool:

The deck ran pretty well. Cabal therapy is by far the strongest card in the deck. It wins more matches than hymn.

I never assembled gravecrawler+goblin bombardment. I think I only profitably used bombardment in a single game. That's not to say the card is weak, I love it--it's just got a giant target on it for removal. I run 4 in the main and I wouldn't go below that, ever.

mind posting your build? ive been playtesting this online lately and i love it. I'm constantly swapping the build around though, so curious to what you have running.

[nudon]

This deck might be able to utilize the new goblin (http://mythicspoiler.com/cpy/cards/grenzodungeonwarden.html) legend from conspiracy. Faithless Looting, Cabal Therapy, and possibly Lingering Souls (if splashing white) represent card advantage while all of the creatures have 2 or fewer attack.

[GtF]

I used to play this deck a little bit. Has anyone returned to it to try out young pyromancer and punishing fires with the rest of the deck? It seems like it works pretty well with Goblin Bombardment and Carrion Feeder. I had to shave some copies of cards to make room for everything and I'm not sure I chose correctly. Here's an initial attempt:

4 Faithless Looting
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Lingering Souls
3 Bloodghast
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Punishing Fire
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Carrion Feeder
3 Gravecrawler
3 Thoughtseize
3 Goblin Bombardment
(40)

3 Bloodstinaed Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Bayou
2 Badlands
3 Scrubland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
(20)

[maharis]

I used to play this deck a little bit. Has anyone returned to it to try out young pyromancer and punishing fires with the rest of the deck? It seems like it works pretty well with Goblin Bombardment and Carrion Feeder. I had to shave some copies of cards to make room for everything and I'm not sure I chose correctly. Here's an initial attempt:

4 Faithless Looting
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Lingering Souls
3 Bloodghast
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Punishing Fire
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Carrion Feeder
3 Gravecrawler
3 Thoughtseize
3 Goblin Bombardment
(40)

3 Bloodstinaed Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Bayou
2 Badlands
3 Scrubland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
(20)

I actually ran this deck at an SCG open with YP right after YP was released. It is nuts with lingering souls and all the other flashback. I went 3-3, then abandoned the idea when TNN was released and -1/-1 effects abounded. I don't remember my list exactly but it was something like this. Keep in mind I was still buying in so my manabase wasn't ideal and I didn't have Thoughtseizes because they were like $60.

4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Carrion Feeder
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Deathrite Shaman

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Duress
3 Lingering Souls
3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Abrupt Decay

10 fetches
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Undiscovered Paradise

I think if you want to try it with Punishing Grove, you need to run Urborg.

[GtF]

I actually ran this deck at an SCG open with YP right after YP was released. It is nuts with lingering souls and all the other flashback. I went 3-3, then abandoned the idea when TNN was released and -1/-1 effects abounded. I don't remember my list exactly but it was something like this. Keep in mind I was still buying in so my manabase wasn't ideal and I didn't have Thoughtseizes because they were like $60.

4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Carrion Feeder
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Deathrite Shaman

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Duress
3 Lingering Souls
3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Abrupt Decay

10 fetches
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Undiscovered Paradise

I think if you want to try it with Punishing Grove, you need to run Urborg.

An urborg is probably a good idea. Another idea I had right after posting this is including Orzhov Pontiff in the maindeck. Not only is it a good answer to TNN, but it synergizes well with making a bunch of tokens, enabling a kind of "combo finish." In addition to that, with all the sacrifice outlets, giving an opponents team -2/-2 (or your own +2/+2) should be pretty easy if it's necessary.

[Qweerios]

I tried this little deck without the white and really liked it. I don't know if this is the right call either but I think Dark Confidant is too good to pass up in this deck. Overall the deck feels like a faster Jund deck. Here's what I play:


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
2 Bayou

[Wanderlust]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/m15/sf0JdVsk2/EN_g684608hv2.png
Could this find a home here?

Worth noting is that it synergizes quite well with Shambling Shell.

[jhhdk]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/m15/sf0JdVsk2/EN_g684608hv2.png
Could this find a home here?

Worth noting is that it synergizes quite well with Shambling Shell.

What about this guy?Athreos, God of Passage

[Richard Cheese]

I think the new white enchantment looks a lot more interesting with this deck:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/59/862/635391266962625011.png

Between Gravecrawler and Bloodghast, you're looking at a lot of dudes. Mana intensive, but less so than stockpile.

[maharis]

I think the new white enchantment looks a lot more interesting with this deck: Between Gravecrawler and Bloodghast, you're looking at a lot of dudes. Mana intensive, but less so than stockpile. Using them together gets you a 1/1, 2/2, card, and whatever value from what you discard for 1BW. Purphoros!

[MD.Ghost]

Using them together gets you a 1/1, 2/2, card, and whatever value from what you discard for 1BW. Purphoros!

and Young Pyromancer (+ Lingering Souls^^) and a 100 card deck with tutors for all the stuff :laugh:, you can't get it all, it is still legacy with all the "you die turn 1, 2, 3" decks.

[Richard Cheese]

Using them together gets you a 1/1, 2/2, card, and whatever value from what you discard for 1BW. Purphoros!

Spirit Bonds only triggers on nontoken creatures. I could see it as a potential alternative to Lingering Souls, the downside being that it doesn't play nearly as nice with Looting.

[maharis]

Spirit Bonds only triggers on nontoken creatures. I could see it as a potential alternative to Lingering Souls, the downside being that it doesn't play nearly as nice with Looting.

Oh yeah I need to RTFC better.

I don't know how much better spirit bonds is than Bitterblossom for this deck, but I did just notice you can sack Bloodghast to it (protecting scullers or big carrion feeders from anything but STP)

[Richard Cheese]

I think it's more aggro than Bitterblossom, just because the potential is there to generate a ton more tokens, esp. off Bloodghasts. The second ability just seems like icing on the cake. Needs to be tested to see if it's just too heavy of a W requirement though.

[toothbrush]

This deck is way too much fun to fade-out secondary to the metagame's preponderant graveyard hate. While the time has not been ripe for Zombardment's success, I'm going to remain optimistic and keep tuning the deck until some unlikely metagame shift presents an opportunity.

I spent months experimenting with several graveyard-reliant jund variants (messing around with Lotleth Trolls, Vengevines, Anger, Buried Alive, Entomb, even Commune with the Gods). Although the Jund version is more explosive, I've found the white version to be more disruptive, far more consistent, and far more resilient. It wins more often. My current list:

Lands (19)

3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Swamp

Spells (20)

2 Entomb (B)
4 Faithless Looting (R)
4 Cabal Therapy (B)
3 Thoughtseize (B)
4 Lingering Souls (2W)
3 Goblin Bombardment (1R)

Creatures (21)

4 Carrion Feeder (B)
3 Deathrite Shaman (B/G)
4 Gravecrawler (B)
4 Bloodghast (BB)
3 Dark Confidant (1B)
3 Tidehollow Sculler (BW)

Sideboard:

1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Pyroblast (R)
3 Abrupt Decay (BG)
3 Zealous Persecution (BW)
3 Meekstone (1)
1 Deathrite Shaman (B/G)

Is anybody successfully running something similar? Have been curious about new cards in M15 that might help...particularly Waste Not. Although Waste Not is certainly promising, it seems like it falls in the same category as Bitterblossom and Blood Artist - cards that can't independently affect the game in a strong enough way to merit their maindeck inclusion in most Zombardment builds. I could certainly be wrong about this.

[Krimson Viper]

I'm still running around with this deck, and took eight place last Sunday in a 15 man tournament. Losing to Miracles twice, running over Dead Guy Ale and beating Deathblade.

I haven't really branched out of what I posted from last time I was in this thread. A few changes I made and like is Liliana and taking out Dark Confidant completely. DC just does way too often and becomes a lost play and found I just stopped SBing him in. One more change I will be making is taking out Meekstone for Ensnaring Bridge. I'm also thinking of removing a Oblivion Ring for another Lili, to bring her count to three. Hedging against our worst possible, and popular, MU: Miracles. I may add another of her, or put in Koth, as I've been seeing some players do lately.

Has anyone dropped the land count to less than twenty? I have been noticing I am getting lots of lands into play, even after fetching some out of the deck. The problem I see mostly is less Bloodghast recursion, but more live top decks. Thoughts or comments about that?

My current deck list:
4 Gravecrawler
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Bloodghast
4 Tidehollow Sculler

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
1 Gamble
2 Goblin Bombardment
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Lingering Souls

Sideboard

1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Meekstone
2 Pithing Needle
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Zealous Persecution

I forgot how to post it in this forum's code. If someone could tell me, again, I will fix it.

Again, what I will be doing is minus one Meekstone and one Oblivion Ring. Plus one Liliana of the Veil and one Ensnaring Bridge.

[MD.Ghost]

I'm still running around with this deck, and took eight place last Sunday in a 15 man tournament. Losing to Miracles twice, running over Dead Guy Ale and beating Deathblade.

Again, what I will be doing is minus one Meekstone and one Oblivion Ring. Plus one Liliana of the Veil and one Ensnaring Bridge.

I like that you still play the deck! Maybe you saw, that i posted on mtgsalvation that i triumphed at a tournament with 40th players (deck list (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14275&iddeck=105239)).

My Mainboard still uses 2 Entomb as a Tutor compared to your Gamble - Both cards have pro's and con's.

Liliana is also a solid choice (i use 1 Main), not only to get more "non terminus" pressure against Miracle. I also like the dark lady as an solution against any creature which isn't shot down with Bombardment (preferable TNN). Zombardment still has to many "dead draws", compared to the raw power of other legacy cards. Sure you can "loot" them away, but this decks still is a bunch of "sweet" cards. The landcount can be reduced if Wasteland (+Stifle) aren't a meta factor, otherwise 20 lands are much safer with 4 Colors and without real "Cantrips".

I like Meekstone over Bridge, because it is much faster (both will die vs Decay) against soft counters and let also Bloodghast&Crawler attack if you enter topdeck mode. Only real upside is, that you can bring Bridge vs Show&Tell (i use 2 Fleshbag Marauder as an flexible answer).

A single Koth-Walker against Miracle worked for me, i like him over "more" Liliana's because he instantly bring some pressure on the board and maybe also kill a jace if you get terminused. Koth is also a nice trick if you face the uncommon "Blood Moon" decks/tech.

-----------

Any thoughts about the KTK stuff?

Sacrifice-Synergy
Bloodsoaked Champion (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/bloodsoakedchampion.html)
Grim Haruspex (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/grimharuspex.html)

Big Beats:
Butcher of the Horde (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/butcherofthehorde.html)

Enchantments:
Mardu Ascendancy (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/marduascendancy.html)
Abzan Ascendancy (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/abzanascendancy.html)

[Dreg]

Haruspex has the potential to be an awesome addition to the deck. It solves one of the most tedious issues of the deck. I've always found that the deck tends to lose consistency as the time goes on, it has a nice durdly gameplay but when it comes to late game it tends to exhaust its fuel a bit. My main concern was that unlike other decks, Zombardment tends not to have the "topdeck bomb" that helps turn around the game. when you are in topdeck mode you are basically stuck. Haruspex allows you to convert dudes into fuel, exchanging the nonexixtent quality for quantity, thus allowing you to float a bit more before the game sinks.

I was super excited when i saw it cause it seemed to solve the only thing i kinda hate of the deck. I will surely test it out. The only issue is the mana cost. There's plenty of stuff at 3cmc and overloading the curve at 3 is a little frightening. It will be a tough choice between Lili, Geralf or Haruspex.

[Krimson Viper]

I like that you still play the deck! Maybe you saw, that i posted on mtgsalvation that i triumphed at a tournament with 40th players (deck list (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14275&iddeck=105239)).

My Mainboard still uses 2 Entomb as a Tutor compared to your Gamble - Both cards have pro's and con's.

Liliana is also a solid choice (i use 1 Main), not only to get more "non terminus" pressure against Miracle. I also like the dark lady as an solution against any creature which isn't shot down with Bombardment (preferable TNN). Zombardment still has to many "dead draws", compared to the raw power of other legacy cards. Sure you can "loot" them away, but this decks still is a bunch of "sweet" cards. The landcount can be reduced if Wasteland (+Stifle) aren't a meta factor, otherwise 20 lands are much safer with 4 Colors and without real "Cantrips".

I like Meekstone over Bridge, because it is much faster (both will die vs Decay) against soft counters and let also Bloodghast&Crawler attack if you enter topdeck mode. Only real upside is, that you can bring Bridge vs Show&Tell (i use 2 Fleshbag Marauder as an flexible answer).

A single Koth-Walker against Miracle worked for me, i like him over "more" Liliana's because he instantly bring some pressure on the board and maybe also kill a jace if you get terminused. Koth is also a nice trick if you face the uncommon "Blood Moon" decks/tech.

-----------

Any thoughts about the KTK stuff?

Sacrifice-Synergy
Bloodsoaked Champion (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/bloodsoakedchampion.html)
Grim Haruspex (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/grimharuspex.html)

Big Beats:
Butcher of the Horde (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/butcherofthehorde.html)

Enchantments:
Mardu Ascendancy (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/marduascendancy.html)
Abzan Ascendancy (http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/abzanascendancy.html)


I actually missed it, until you pointed it out here. Congrats! Lots of ones and twos, but each give the deck a different and. I think I will try out Koth instead of another Koth. Any trouble casting him though? He's four mana.

I want to try Bridge over Meekstone, because they can still attack with bigger creatures, which Batterskull is turning into my biggest problem. It will stop angels in their tracks as well. Show and tell isn't a problem, but Goyf and Batterskull is.

The problem that I am having with Khans is that they are all three drops, except for the living Gravecrawler. They all have big upside, but looks like they slow the deck down. I'm no genius to the game though, so I'll let others who have more time to experiment test it out. I have maybe one or two tournaments a month. And they're usually ten to twenty players.

[thefreakaccident]

I think the new grim haruspex may replace liliana in my list. For testing purpose, but yeah, if you have the mana this guy can draw you some cards. Maybe i'll start toying with song of the damned again. Seems potentially spicy. Could also suck, although both the new critter and liliana die to burn, so who knows.

[CptHaddock]

I've been interested in this deck for a while and would like to take it to a local legacy tournament. I've only played it a few times. I think I am going to use ghost's list as a starting list, and change stuff based on what I have. Got any tips for people new to this deck? What are our strongest matchups? What are our weakest?

[Krimson Viper]

Miracles is probably the worst MU for the deck, next to Burn. Don't have many tips to give though. Don't rely on the grave so much games two and three. If you can, exile whatever they are targeting with Surgical Extraction with DRS, and in the DRS target fight, let them make the move first. It isn't all that too imperative to use it yourself, let them try it.

[CptHaddock]

So how are you guys doing with zombardment post khans? Have you guys made any changes post khans? It feels really hard sometimes to keep up with my opponents when they are treasure cruising/digging through time. Not really sure what to run to keep up with them. Young pyromancers andchains of mephistopheles seem tempting.

[MD.Ghost]

So how are you guys doing with zombardment post khans? Have you guys made any changes post khans? It feels really hard sometimes to keep up with my opponents when they are treasure cruising/digging through time. Not really sure what to run to keep up with them. Young pyromancers andchains of mephistopheles seem tempting.

We discussed it a little bit on mtgsalvation (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro/179834-primer-the-walking-dead-zombardment?page=24)

Copy & Paste my thoughts:

I thought about Gerry Ts deck (and already brewing with Young Pyromancer a lot).

The biggest issue (and it is a common problem with this deck) is, that most Zombies and our beloved Vampire can't block. A meta full with UR Delver will "swift" attack over the dead horde. Discard itself isn't so good, if opponents can refuel with Treasure Cruise. With this in mind, even our Tidehollow Sculler isn't the best option, if opponents pack lot of additional red spot removal and other opponents bring in Pyroclasm and other Sweepers.

The good news are, that Goblin Bombardment and Tokens or reusable Spells aren't so bad vs Treasure Cruise and/or fast Assaults.

My current brew is something like this:

//Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Undiscovered Paradise

//Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Vengeful Pharaoh

//Other Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Entomb
2 Goblin Bombardment
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Darkblast

Generally no more "Zombies" and "less bad topdecks" - sure i loved Carrion Feeder Action, but with Bolt, Swiftspears, YP-Token etc. i am not sure, that it is time for the old "Walking Dead" stuff.

As i mentioned, Bombardment itself isn't so bad now, so besides Gravecrawler, Tokens are the way to abuse it.

The build contains less creatures, but they are all "powerfull" enough and generate synergies with the rest of the deck.

Deathrite: Fix Mana, gives Range, fights Grave Combo and Delve, supports a T2 YP + Spell Move
Young Pyromancer: Generate value, while fragile itself, he synergies well with a deck full of spells and can triumph with Bombardment
Bloodghast: The persistent Attacker, useable with Entomb, Looting, Liliana and needed for some Therapy and Bombardment Action
Vengeful Pharaoh: UR Delver will hate him, without Stifle, TNN, Nimble etc. they can't answer him well. Even Grafdigger's Cage will fail. Later he is a threat

Compared to traditional Walking Dead builds, this version runs more removal:
Playset Bolt: also useable against Walkers/Players
Darkblast: reusable Removal, lot of synergy with the deck (remember it with Pharaoh!)
Entomb + Pharaoh: will generate a nasty surprise
Jitte: the common flexible equipment, pump, life, kill
Liliana: only a 1off, but i like her in a Walking Dead shell, sadly she lost some of her power against Treasure Cruise...

More Thoughts:
Manabase isn't set in stone, maybe -1 Bayou +1 Plateau etc. which can be lead to a WW-Support which enables Auriok Champion as a nice (and weird) sideboard tech against UR and Burn (no Wastelands here).

Sideboard isn't ready, but get some Decays, more Combo Hate (since the maindeck has no Scullers) etc.

[RPGbudgie]

I went 4-0 with zombardment at our local Monday night legacy.

I used a list similar to the last one I posted. There were a few things to note...

I still think 4 bombardments is the right call. It's the best call in the deck and I'm always happy to see 2. It's nearly the ONLY card in the deck that can be profitably countered, discarded, or destroyed so it draws a ton of removal. I ran 2 blood scrivener; they were good as blockers and as zombies but they never actually drew me any cards, I don't think I'll play it again. I also ran Tymaret as 1 of--he's awesome and won me two games.

My games were:

G1
4 color Lands Controlly Deck with lingering souls and humility 1-0-1
This was a fun matchup, game 1 was super grindy and went 35 minutes. I won when I found sensei's divining top and dug for bombardment. Game 2 wasn't close to ending and could have gone either way. Once again he was at like 5 life looking for a wincon and I was looking for bombardment.

Both games he had humility down. The card has some interesting interactions with us. You can still recur your ghasts and crawlers, they just become 1/1s.

I had a great play at one point in Game 1 where had two punishing fires online and was burning my guys every turn. I had two gravecrawlers in my yard. Normally, I wouldn't be able to play tidehollow from my hand and recur crawler since he can respond to the tidehollow trigger and burn my guy before I get priority back to cast a crawler. However, since humility was in play, I was able to cast tidehollow, hold priority, cast gravecrawler, let him burn my tidehollow in response, then let the first gravecrawler resolve and play the second crawler, he then burned the first gravecrawler in response and I just recast it when the second one resolved.

G2
Burn 2-1

I got lucky, this matchup his absolutely horrible. She ended game 3 with 4 land in hand.

G3
Thought lash combo 2-0

This guy was playing a thought lash combo with that artifact that copies creatures or artifacts on top of your library. It was basically a turn 3-4 blue combo deck running 4 tops and 4 cb. I got there with discard and beats both games.

G4
Omnitell 2-0

Discard and beats gets there game 1. Discard and beats gets there game 2 after I surgical his brainstorm when he hides his goodies. Surgical is a must have in this sideboard.

[jhhdk]

Could new liliana be what this deck needs?
http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/lilianahereticalhealer.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/lilianadefiantnecromancer.jpg

[MD.Ghost]

Could new liliana be what this deck needs?

Pretty sure she can work in the Zombardment-Shell.
Sadly she can't reanimate herself or creatures from other yards with her minus X, so she missed the awesome status.

Compared to most current builds, adding the 4th Carrion Feeder in a deck with the new Liliana seems right (she can also reanimate him) and maybe also add the 3rd Goblin Bombardment back - similiar to the old Sam Black Builds. The biggest problem is, that deck has no space if you update the numbers of feeder/bombardment and also add 2-3 of the upcoming Liliana, because most cards are set in stone unless we get better or equal stuff.

The deck also has to fight Deathrites, RiP, CPriest, Cage and get still outclassed from Gofy or annoying creatures like TNN...

I still think the deck works well enough on its own and offers a lot of fun, but most of the time you have to fight an uneven battle, because most legacy decks stack much better spells compared to the stuff most Zombardment Builds bring to the table.

[henweigh]

Is anyone playing this deck any more? I played it a few times, but it never quite had enough of an edge.

[Julian23]

It seems to be really good vs OmniTell. I've got an insane win% vs the entire field with OmniTell, but Sam Black's Zombies has been a 25% matchup thus far, according to my spreadsheet.

[henweigh]

I guess it's time to sleeve them up again . . . Anything that inspires you to leave elves in the dust is worth trying to beat. :)

I'm curious though, how does Zombardment cause problems for Omnitell?

[maharis]

I'm curious though, how does Zombardment cause problems for Omnitell?

Thoughtseize, Therapy, Sculler all MB is a huge beating for combo decks.

[P-E]

it's good to beat non PIF combo decks ^^
anyway possible thalia , thorns , o ring could really be annoying for combo

Julian , i saw this too during playtest with a friend he played Zomb and he crushed my UR omni rough to dodge all discard Lily O ring :(
i'm wondering what's Zombie win% vs Miracle ?

[MD.Ghost]

I guess it's time to sleeve them up again . . . Anything that inspires you to leave elves in the dust is worth trying to beat. :)

I'm curious though, how does Zombardment cause problems for Omnitell?

Zombardment is a very skill intense deck, many decision-trees etc. The deck contains no countermagic, but besides the lack of the blue-legacy-shell it has a good combo matchup, because you have a lot of cheap disruption and a fast clock. Consider the fact, that Omnitell is one of the slowest combo decks, it should be more than beatable for Zombardment (see Julians post)

The biggest issue are the "weak" cards (compared to the powerfull legacy stuff) and as mentioned above Zombardment has a lot of hard matchups mixed with complicated decisions.

Last weekend i visit my old home Berlin (known as the combo hell) and found enough time for a small legacy tournament. I still love this deck and give it another try. Compared to my latest list (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14275&iddeck=105239) which won me a 40 player tournament. I made some changes to the new meta. Sadly i left the Entomb-Bridge-Plan, because i need some space. Miracle isn't the worst matchup and i finally put in the 4th Lingering Souls and 3rd Bombardment - both cards are really good in this Matchup.

Against Omnitell Canonist is good enough to get a 2nd Disruption- and a 2nd Attack-Phase´(and more important). Bombardment itself can also catch up a game, if you can sneak it into Show & Tell and sacrifice your dudes for lethal damage.

My latest list:

// Deck: Walking Dead (60)

// Lands
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Undiscovered Paradise

// Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
3 Carrion Feeder
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Rotting Rats

// Spells
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Goblin Bombardment
1 Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Dark Confidant
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Rakdos Charm

Still unsure about Confidant (i can also see Bitterblossom or even Koth here).

I finally missed a good run in Berlin and ended 2:2; my matchups were: 2:0 vs Miracle (see above); 0:2 vs UR Delver (missplays from me..) 0:2 vs ANT (sometimes they get you..) and finally 2:0 vs BUG Food Chain Combo

@P-E: You can beat PiF, Sculler exiles a card and you also have Deathrites to fight PiF - but yeah, more graveyard-hate at side (extraction, rakdos charm) will also help against ANT and you also have Null Rod and maybe Canonist/Thorn/Thalia. Ask Kai/sawatarix he will remember some matchup against my Walking Dead Pet Deck ;)

[P-E]

ahah thx MD for an update on it , i think i'll try to sleeve it to test it i missed only a rotting rats !!
why rakdos charm over golgari ? more gravehate ?

blossom + bombardment would shine against miracle ^^

what about Lands , it seems a really poor match up

[glowparty]

ahah thx MD for an update on it , i think i'll try to sleeve it to test it i missed only a rotting rats !!
why rakdos charm over golgari ? more gravehate ?

blossom + bombardment would shine against miracle ^^

what about Lands , it seems a really poor match up

for lands: relic of progentitus, scavenging ooze, diabolic edict, innocent blood. pithing needle, extirpate, surgical extraction.

I agree it seems unfavorable. Attack their gy where possible, and find diabolic edict or swords to plowshares. Meanwhile goblin bombardment helps to convert their punishing fire into damage to them. lotleth troll, tidehollow sculler and deathrite shaman are usually effective against punishing fire as long as there aren't multiples yet.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

Relentless Dead seems good in this deck.

[MaximumC]

Relentless Dead seems good in this deck.

I disagree wholeheartedly. It's expensive and doesn't synergize with what this deck is trying to do.

Relentless Dead is good at recurring other cards from the yard, but this whole deck is based on cards that already recur themselves. Gravecrawler comes back for B when R.Dead is in play without R.Dead's ability being relevant at all. On top of that, using R.Dead means you have to keep 2 mana open for maximum effect. If you're machine gunning things with Bombardment, you have to spend BBB for each shot with R.Dead. That's poop.

R.Dead may have a shining future in some deck, but I don't see what it adds to Zombardment.

[grokh]

Hi,

http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/diregrafcolossus.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/prizedamalgam.jpg

New toys for the deck ?

[ironclad8690]

Jeez those cards are pushed. I can't wait to see what ReneRandrup (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/renerandrup) cooks up.

[MaximumC]

Jeez those cards are pushed. I can't wait to see what ReneRandrup (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/renerandrup) cooks up.

I like both of those cards better than Restless Dead... but not really a whole lot.

Colossus would be awesome if we swapped out Lingering Souls and Bloodghast for more Zombies. But... why on Earth would we do that? Souls gives us evasion and 2 - 4 tokens. Ghast comes back for free. These seem way too good to cut. And, without that, how many Zombies are we really gonna have in our yard on a good day? 4? 5? A finisher that can't compete with Goyf isn't much of a finisher.

Prized Amalgam... I don't know. It suggests dipping into U, which seems suspicious, or resigning yourself to the fact that you will never cast this guy except when you bring back a Bloodghast or a Crawler. Now, those things happen a LOT in this deck, so I feel like this is an acceptable aggro option. Perhaps in a build that minimizes the combo-seque interactions in favor of just trying to dump zombie power onto the board as fast as humanly possible?

Turn 1, Faithless Looting / Careful Study, pitching Bloodghast and Amalgam
Turn 2, Faithless Looting / Careful Study, pitching two more Amalgam, play land, end turn with 11 power.

That's a dream draw that kills on turn 4 against a goldfish. That's not terrible.

[Scott]

Zombardment top 8'ed (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12060&d=269188&f=LE) a 59-person tournament yesterday

// Lands
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
1 Bloodghast
2 Carrion Feeder
3 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
1 Lotleth Troll
2 Tidehollow Sculler

// Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Swords to Plowshares

// Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge

// Enchantments
2 Goblin Bombardment
1 Mirri's Guile

// Artifacts
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil

SB: 1 Bitterblossom
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Garruk Relentless
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

[MD.Ghost]

Zombardment top 8'ed (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12060&d=269188&f=LE) a 59-person tournament yesterday


No offense, but it looks like a bad Zombardment (Troll-)Deck with lots of random 1offs. It's great for the player that he top8'ed a tournament with that pile of cards, but i don't see any evolutionary idea for this archetype.

----------
Speaking of new ideas: Anyone tested Diregraf Colosuss here?

[Mystical_Jackass]

No offense, but it looks like a bad Zombardment (Troll-)Deck with lots of random 1offs. It's great for the player that he top8'ed a tournament with that pile of cards, but i don't see any evolutionary idea for this archetype.

----------
Speaking of new ideas: Anyone tested Diregraf Colosuss here?

Lol, yeah I think he was in a rush and took his Tiny Leaders deck to the tourney and just tossed in a few extra cards. Even the SB is a bunch of 1-of's. There's enough discard and synergy it probably didn't matter though how random.

(I always wondered how I'd do taking a "Hearthstone" approach and just loading a deck with 1 and 2-of's lol)

[glowparty]

With such an unsupportive community, it's tough to see use in posting a tournament report. The amount of constructive feedback that would be given appears to be minimal in the best case.

edit: of course, I don't mean that all of The Source is unsupportive.

[Emrakul503]

Wow, I have not seen this much dissing on fellow patrons of the same deck in a long time. @Glowparty, I would be interested in your tournament report regardless. In fact, I came to this thread to seek out that specifically.

[Darkenslight]

How much testing has PRized Amalgam had? That seems like a really potent card in a more self-mill shell.

[Fox]

Lol, yeah I think he was in a rush and took his Tiny Leaders deck to the tourney and just tossed in a few extra cards. Even the SB is a bunch of 1-of's. There's enough discard and synergy it probably didn't matter though how random.

(I always wondered how I'd do taking a "Hearthstone" approach and just loading a deck with 1 and 2-of's lol)
I'm not really sure what the point of this post is; there's not much functional difference between a lot of these cards. Are we on black/green with lilly, DRS, and confidant - check, 9 slots. Does it have sorcery speed discard - check, 7 slots (8 with k-command). Do we have removal that includes abrupt decay, check - 4 slots (5 with k-command). All the creatures outside DRS/Confidant work well together and have synergistic interactions with Cabal Therapy and Lilly as +1 discard recurring fodder and recurring sac outlets - 10 slots.

Either you're not liking the land base, or are taking some issue with Lingering Souls x2//Toxic Deluge x1 //Goblin Bombardment x2//Jitte x1//Mirri's Guile x1//SDT x1???

I play vs this pilot at Time Vault, and in this deck's current iteration there isn't a ton of white (though I've seen 3-4 StP versions), so that's perhaps a valid question (was white splash needed? that said I like only 2 copies of white mana with 6 fetches able to find the basic). I've never seen his Goblin Bombardment go off, but then again I'm not playing a fair deck where it's relevant - what I can tell you is that the meta there at the 1k was overwhelmingly fair, and I'm guessing Bombardment, Lotleth's trample, and Jitte probably did a number on anyone who was using Mother of Runes. There were also a lot of chalices floating around that day, and the deck + sideboard has a lot of 2-cmc play to it. The total number of fetches (12) seems high (by 1-2x), but aggressively able to locate the basics it needs for operation under Blood Moon - so perhaps that's another question is how Choke performed vs it being Blood Moon #2.

What exactly are you hoping to see @MD.Ghost and @Mystical_Jackass without the $600 change to quad-goyf [eventaully Jund]? You start casting Entomb into Bridge from Below, or otherwise becoming more yard-centric, and you definitely get the yard-hate package post-board. From watching it played, it occupies an interesting niche being resistant to Chalice, yard-hate, p-fire, and Wasteland/Blood Moon - as far as the 1k went, that was a pretty good place to be.

[Rampart]

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is; there's not much functional difference between a lot of these cards. Are we on black/green with lilly, DRS, and confidant - check, 9 slots. Does it have sorcery speed discard - check, 7 slots (8 with k-command). Do we have removal that includes abrupt decay, check - 4 slots (5 with k-command). All the creatures outside DRS/Confidant work well together and have synergistic interactions with Cabal Therapy and Lilly as +1 discard recurring fodder and recurring sac outlets - 10 slots.

Either you're not liking the land base, or are taking some issue with Lingering Souls x2//Toxic Deluge x1 //Goblin Bombardment x2//Jitte x1//Mirri's Guile x1//SDT x1???

I play vs this pilot at Time Vault, and in this deck's current iteration there isn't a ton of white (though I've seen 3-4 StP versions), so that's perhaps a valid question (was white splash needed? that said I like only 2 copies of white mana with 6 fetches able to find the basic). I've never seen his Goblin Bombardment go off, but then again I'm not playing a fair deck where it's relevant - what I can tell you is that the meta there at the 1k was overwhelmingly fair, and I'm guessing Bombardment, Lotleth's trample, and Jitte probably did a number on anyone who was using Mother of Runes. There were also a lot of chalices floating around that day, and the deck + sideboard has a lot of 2-cmc play to it. The total number of fetches (12) seems high (by 1-2x), but aggressively able to locate the basics it needs for operation under Blood Moon - so perhaps that's another question is how Choke performed vs it being Blood Moon #2.

What exactly are you hoping to see @MD.Ghost and @Mystical_Jackass without the $600 change to quad-goyf [eventaully Jund]? You start casting Entomb into Bridge from Below, or otherwise becoming more yard-centric, and you definitely get the yard-hate package post-board. From watching it played, it occupies an interesting niche being resistant to Chalice, yard-hate, p-fire, and Wasteland/Blood Moon - as far as the 1k went, that was a pretty good place to be.

There is a lot of noise on the source that is not constructive, and most posts don’t have a point. I wouldn’t let it get under your skin as it’s been this way for a long time. I guess you can say its part of the “charm”

I disagree that there “not a lot of functional difference between a lot of these cards” there is a basic core for either the 3 color versions and 4 color versions and this list posted above is missing a lot of that core. Anytime you deviate from that core you going to get a lot of raised eyebrows, and the list above deviates a lot. Don’t get me wrong there are also a lot of cards that have functional similarities, but there are some awkward cards too like Lotleth troll you mentioned I think most people are going to expect to see another bloodghast there and that is a pretty big functional difference. I also think there is some questionable card choices, like if you’re trying to avoid COTV, why not run Sylvan Library instead of the Top/Guile split. Top is also extremely mana intensive which completes with things like Gravecrawler. Also I don’t think goyf is where you want to go, there are better for goyf decks like jund or shardless.

I think what they are hoping to see is focus in a decklist so they can take ideas or new technology to try them out. The first time you look at that list it’s a bit of a mess honestly and to me it feels like a mash up of Jund and Zombardment. It’s hard to take away anything from that list because it feels so peppered with different strategies and concepts. Regardless congrats to the piolet and there finish.

[glowparty]

hi folks! The report is based on limited memory. I couldn't sleep much before the tournament.


round 1: ANT 2-0
game 1: I have just enough consistent hand interaction to pressure him to make 12 goblins T4 or so. I race him with troll & deathrite blocks, while feeder attacks. It wasn't a tough race, and I thoughtseize him to safeguard against additional funny business.

game 2: I mulligan to 6 and T-1 therapy an infernal tutor. He knows I have teeg & choke in hand and concedes when teeg resolves (he didn't board in decays).


round 2: eldrazi 2-1
game 1: I identify his deck from small talk we make, so I mulligan for an OK maindeck hand. I grind him out with discard and lilli, building my offense until it kills.

game 2: I try to buy time with bitterblossom, but chalice on 1 trounces my hand and draw steps.

game 3: I remember enjoying how easily diabolic edicts level a playing field.


round 3: miracles 2-0
game 1: He accidentally resolves brainstorm T1 like a sensei's top activation (ouch)! An early guile helps me throw 2 lilli's at him and ultimate both. The first ultimate may've been best as jace, top versus lands, cb. This game takes twenty minutes.

game 2: He keeps a land heavy hand without top, so i thoughtseize a threat or removal spell. Basically I end up getting chains on an otherwise empty board, then jitte and start throwing creatures at him as they show up. Eventually I get a confidant to trigger, getting bitterblossom and teeg from it, lol.


round 4: bug delver 2-0
game 1: the only creature his deck provided him is one or two deathrites, so I just had to navigate his disruption to seal the game with higher value cards than his threats can match.

game 2: again he doesn't see a creature besides a deathrite. I sort of just sit with chains in play waiting to be able to cast the blood moon in my hand. I finally draw the red source for blood moon, and he concedes.


rounds 5 & 6: intentional draw


top 8: lands 1-2
game 1: I actually have a great hand which made me try to eek out a maindeck win. This is one of my worst pre-board matchups.

for the rest, see:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30585-Time-Vault-Games-Legacy-Open-with-Dark-Lands-Finals-Split&p=944608#post944608

sorry I can't add anything. My memory was getting weak for this long round. I will say that game 3 I expected guile to find me blood moon or a surgical after all those shuffles. Sounds like the moon wouldn't have stuck but a surgical on life from the loam may've had potential. Congrats on some tough playing and your success, Emrakul.


Post-tournament remarks:
I'm always slowly refining corners of the deck. It probably needs more against lands post-board. I'm focusing on Lands, Miracles, Painter at the moment.

Cutting choke for second blood moon seems good. To mitigate a detriment to Miracles, I'll try cutting the kolaghan's command for bitterblossom maindeck. I now have a 14-card sideboard to work with.

@Fox: other advantages of 12 fetches are bloodghast triggers for bombardment, shuffles for guile/top, and land thinning. Why do you feel that it has too many fetches?

@rampart: i don't follow your disagreeing that there aren't functional differences between some cards, saying the list deviates the status quo, which seems unrelated.

I play lotleth troll because I like protecting liliana. I haven't found him especially awkward.

I don't run sylvan library because I've other spells turn 2, and guile/top gives me 8 optimal plays turn 1 on the play. Additionally, I play chains. Top only competes with crawler if you're trying to bombard, in which case the silver bullet for that matchup is online.

Regarding goyf: that a card works better in some other deck doesn't answer, "Is this card better than another card in this slot?"

[Rampart]

hi folks! The report is based on limited memory. I couldn't sleep much before the tournament.


round 1: ANT 2-0
game 1: I have just enough consistent hand interaction to pressure him to make 12 goblins T4 or so. I race him with troll & deathrite blocks, while feeder attacks. It wasn't a tough race, and I thoughtseize him to safeguard against additional funny business.

game 2: I mulligan to 6 and T-1 therapy an infernal tutor. He knows I have teeg & choke in hand and concedes when teeg resolves (he didn't board in decays).


round 2: eldrazi 2-1
game 1: I identify his deck from small talk we make, so I mulligan for an OK maindeck hand. I grind him out with discard and lilli, building my offense until it kills.

game 2: I try to buy time with bitterblossom, but chalice on 1 trounces my hand and draw steps.

game 3: I remember enjoying how easily diabolic edicts level a playing field.


round 3: miracles 2-0
game 1: He accidentally resolves brainstorm T1 like a sensei's top activation (ouch)! An early guile helps me throw 2 lilli's at him and ultimate both. The first ultimate may've been best as jace, top versus lands, cb. This game takes twenty minutes.

game 2: He keeps a land heavy hand without top, so i thoughtseize a threat or removal spell. Basically I end up getting chains on an otherwise empty board, then jitte and start throwing creatures at him as they show up. Eventually I get a confidant to trigger, getting bitterblossom and teeg from it, lol.


round 4: bug delver 2-0
game 1: the only creature his deck provided him is one or two deathrites, so I just had to navigate his disruption to seal the game with higher value cards than his threats can match.

game 2: again he doesn't see a creature besides a deathrite. I sort of just sit with chains in play waiting to be able to cast the blood moon in my hand. I finally draw the red source for blood moon, and he concedes.


rounds 5 & 6: intentional draw


top 8: lands 1-2
game 1: I actually have a great hand which made me try to eek out a maindeck win. This is one of my worst pre-board matchups.

for the rest, see:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30585-Time-Vault-Games-Legacy-Open-with-Dark-Lands-Finals-Split&p=944608#post944608

sorry I can't add anything. My memory was getting weak for this long round. I will say that game 3 I expected guile to find me blood moon or a surgical after all those shuffles. Sounds like the moon wouldn't have stuck but a surgical on life from the loam may've had potential. Congrats on some tough playing and your success, Emrakul.


Post-tournament remarks:
I'm always slowly refining corners of the deck. It probably needs more against lands post-board. I'm focusing on Lands, Miracles, Painter at the moment.

Cutting choke for second blood moon seems good. To mitigate a detriment to Miracles, I'll try cutting the kolaghan's command for bitterblossom maindeck. I now have a 14-card sideboard to work with.

@Fox: other advantages of 12 fetches are bloodghast triggers for bombardment, shuffles for guile/top, and land thinning. Why do you feel that it has too many fetches?

@rampart: i don't follow your disagreeing that there aren't functional differences between some cards, saying the list deviates the status quo, which seems unrelated.

I play lotleth troll because I like protecting liliana. I haven't found him especially awkward.

I don't run sylvan library because I've other spells turn 2, and guile/top gives me 8 optimal plays turn 1 on the play. Additionally, I play chains. Top only competes with crawler if you're trying to bombard, in which case the silver bullet for that matchup is online.

Regarding goyf: that a card works better in some other deck doesn't answer, "Is this card better than another card in this slot?"

Those comments really were not directed at you, mostly Fox’s post.

I guess what I am trying to say is that your list deviates from the historical norm (good, bad or indifferent) and there is functional differences from that classic shell. The OP Fox made it seem like all the parts of this deck are interchangeable which just is not accurate if you have played this deck long enough. You don’t get the same sort of classic functionality of bloodghast if you are running only one in your main deck because you are running three Dark Confidant instead. That being said there is some level of interchangeability, the discard cards for example could be IOK or Thoughtseize with very little difference most of the time.

@ Lotlth Troll - I find the card awkward, I expected that you didn’t because you are playing with it and I am sure you had a good reason for that inclusion. Outside of your experience I was playing around with it in my sideboard and I just didn’t find that useful.

@ SDT/Library/Guile Discussion - Which is totally reasonable also you have 19 turn one plays that are all pretty optimal not sure where you get 8 from. SDT competes with a lot imho. Zombardment is basically a proactive deck and you’re trying to utilize you mana the most efficiently every turn while top is not mana efficient because it’s basically a mana drain turn after turn. How many times are you going to miss deploying that powerful turn two play because you topped during your upkeep or miss deploying Liliana of the Veil on time because your hand is saturated with other permanents to deploy etc. To me SDT has real costs, and I would just want to run another Mirri’s Guile (which is sweet by the way.) Also you can grow Feeder with Gravecrawler as a mana sink.

@ Goyf Statement - Sure, but that’s the most empirical way to interrupt my statement. What cards are you going to cut for Goyf? Gravecrawler? Lingering Souls? The rest of the Zombie package? Aren’t you just working yourself closer and closer to Jund which is a different deck, you’re not that far off. Wouldn’t that discussion be more relevant in the Jund thread which is an actual good stuff Goyf deck verses Zombardment. I guess my feelings is that the inclusion of goyf in to your deck list basically takes the Zombardment shell out of the Zombardment deck to some extent.

On another note: I have been playing the ReneRandup build for a 1 and half months now and I am finding that the Magus of the Moons in the sideboard are not holding there weight: Any suggestions for the Green Filled metagame on MTGO. Last league I went 4-1 with the list below.

List
4 DRS
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Grim Haruspex

4 Entomb
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Bridge From Below
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize

19 Lands (Normal Stuff)

3 Seal of Primordium
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Perish
1 Attrition
2 Choke
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Duress
1 Fire Covenant

[glowparty]

The OP Fox made it seem like all the parts of this deck are interchangeable which just is not accurate if you have played this deck long enough. You don’t get the same sort of classic functionality of bloodghast if you are running only one in your main deck because you are running three Dark Confidant instead.

Bloodghasts were primarily replaced with synergistic grindier cards (third liliana, lingering souls, jitte). I can't recall the evolution of confidant's inclusion, but probably they function as replacement for faithless looting moreso.



@ Lotlth Troll - I expected that you didn't find troll awkward because you are playing with it and I am sure you had a good reason for that inclusion. Outside of your experience I was playing around with it in my sideboard and I just didn’t find that useful.

I imagine troll is more valuable when aiming to dominate all zones of the game. In that slower strategy, a zombie super-wall with trample is quite the... savior.


@SDT/Library/Guile Discussion - 19 turn one optimal not sure where you get 8 from. SDT competes; Zombardment is proactive; you utilize your mana the most efficiently every turn while top is not mana efficient because it mana drains turn after turn. How many times are you going to miss deploying that powerful turn two play because you topped or miss deploying Liliana of the Veil on time...

I definetely don't consider feeder or crawler optimal T1 plays for the meta at large (e.g. storm). Therapy is not optimal on the play, and I'm dumbfounded that you count that as an optimal T1 move. Regarding Top, I don't spin it turns 2-3 if I have impactful spells to cast... in this shell. It seems like you're not considering the optimal approaches to the cards in this list. Top is better than guile in immediate effects, and also when playing a grindfest matchup.



@ Goyf Statement - Sure, but that’s the most empirical way to interrupt my statement.

I was not attacking your opinion, with which I agree. My point was merely that your argument has minimal sway.


another note: I have been playing the ReneRandup build for a 1 and half months now and I am finding that the Magus of the Moons in the sideboard are not holding there weight: Any suggestions for the Green Filled metagame on MTGO. Last league I went 4-1 with the list below.

List
4 DRS
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Grim Haruspex

4 Entomb
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Bridge From Below
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize

19 Lands (Normal Stuff)

3 Seal of Primordium
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Perish
1 Attrition
2 Choke
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Duress
1 Fire Covenant



I like the seals, although I'm concerned about their deadness to a post top-lock. I'm also wondering if you can face storm effectively without bears. Are you just quick enough to the kill where discard is enough?

[Rampart]

I like the seals, although I'm concerned about their deadness to a post top-lock. I'm also wondering if you can face storm effectively without bears. Are you just quick enough to the kill where discard is enough?

@Troll and Deck:
Wait are you saying that a Zombie Super Wall Troll is a savior – that’s got to be some sort of flavor fail. As a whole you deck feels a little mid-rangier than the traditional lists, which is fine in my opinion, it’s your deck and you play what feels right to you based off what your meta is and such. Also let’s keep in mind that you’re playing with all good cards too, Liliana of the Veil is a powerful cards that can do a lot. I just think as a whole you list is a departure from the standard (not like my list isn’t either) so it give you different options and play to it.

@Optimal Turn One:
So the games where you cast a turn one therapy on the play are probably optimal given what the lay out of your hand is. If you have a better turn one play you would make that but if you are playing therapy it means that you have the next two turns mapped out already with either a Bob in to Lilana or Sculler into Souls etc or any combination of a two drop into a three drop. To me a turn one Therapy is not as powerful as you don’t have the full scope of information (its much more powerful on turn two), but depending on how your hand lines up or what you’re playing against it can be optimal from a mana efficiency and a sequencing stand point. I think from the same legs I can make an argument for Feeder and Crawler but I shelve that for now because it’s a lot of the same as above. Against Storm I find that I need to get something on the board to pressure there life total so casting a Feeder or Crawler is fine in my opinion as it gets the ball rolling.

No, I disagree, I am considering your list when speaking about approaches I just think we differ in how we interpret optimal. To me when I hear the term optimal it’s really about contextual approaches and mana efficiency. SDT to me is not a mana efficient card (there is one caveat to that and it’s basically when we are talking about net mana utilization over the course of a game, basically unused mana is not efficient so top provides and outlet for that) it’s just a more powerful card then Guile is because it just does more and reaches more cards in the mid and late games. Guile is more efficient to me because the net mana investment is less, and it doesn’t require any more investment. Even your Zombardment list is mana hungry, its 4c, lots of different casting costs up and down the curve (even more in the sideboard) and there is the Crawlers loops etc. I am not saying SDT is wrong, it might be just what you need with Bob, I would of just tried the second Guile first. Although he Green for the Guile is a big downside.

TD,DR: I get your perspective I just see things differently as its more contextual for me.

@ Goyf:
No worries, I didn’t think you were attacking me or my opinion, I’m just not sure I could make an argument with a lot of sway on the topic. It’s just one of those things where you get into a large spiritual discussion about how you define Zombardment as Zombardment or Jund as Jund or whatever. It’s hard to data mine theoretical stuff like is “Strategy A” better in this then “Strategy B” in this deck because people have personal preferences and other factors of the like. IDK


@Seal and Storm:
LOL so the seals actually were not for Counter/Top. I mostly play online now and I was running into a lot of Leyline of the Void (Coming out of Shardless, 4c Loam, Eldrazi, etc) which is just a giant beating for the version I am playing with so I needed to do something and seal is what I decided on. I am actually down to just one seal now, which has been working out well.

So I am 13-2 against ANT (which feels high but thats what happened on Modo). I can kill on turn 4-5 with disruption pretty easily and between the 4 Therapys and the 4 Entombs to get additional Therapys If can generally slow them down to the point I cast about 5 of the them in a game where they don’t just kill me on turn two and the matchup gets better after sideboard. My matchups are slightly worse against the other faster storm/combo decks but still positive. The biggest problem I have had on the Combo side of the format is Reanimator. I mostly see the B/R version which just put a dork in play on turn one or two most of the time which is just too fast for me to interact with and they are more resilient that I first thought. So I have had to add an additional Surgical and a Pithing needle which has made it better.

[glowparty]

@Troll and Deck:
As a whole you deck feels a little mid-rangier than the traditional lists. Also let’s keep in mind that you’re playing with all good cards too, Liliana of the Veil is a powerful cards that can do a lot.

This is why Troll is effective here. His regen helps to reliably have a zombie for Crawler, and helps to protect Lili and myself while other pieces come together.



@Optimal Turn One:
So the games where you cast a turn one therapy on the play are probably optimal given what the lay out of your hand is. depending on how your hand lines up or what you’re playing against it can be optimal from a mana efficiency and a sequencing stand point.

On the play against an unknown opponent means therapy's effectiveness isn't dependant on the deck you're facing, I think.



I think from the same legs I can make an argument for Feeder and Crawler but I shelve that for now because it’s a lot of the same as above. Against Storm I find that I need to get something on the board to pressure there life total so casting a Feeder or Crawler is fine in my opinion as it gets the ball rolling.

the effectiveness of a T1 Feeder or Crawler is just more dependant on whether your hand is meaningfully supportive in the next couple turns, whereas Seize, Deathrite, Top, Guile support most plays that follow them as an opener.



No, I disagree, I am considering your list when speaking about approaches I just think we differ in how we interpret optimal. To me when I hear the term optimal it’s really about contextual approaches and mana efficiency. SDT to me is not a mana efficient card (there is one caveat to that and it’s basically when we are talking about net mana utilization over the course of a game, basically unused mana is not efficient so top provides and outlet for that) it’s just a more powerful card then Guile is because it just does more and reaches more cards in the mid and late games. Guile is more efficient to me because the net mana investment is less, and it doesn’t require any more investment. Even your Zombardment list is mana hungry, its 4c, lots of different casting costs up and down the curve (even more in the sideboard) and there is the Crawlers loops etc. I am not saying SDT is wrong, it might be just what you need with Bob, I would of just tried the second Guile first. Although he Green for the Guile is a big deal.

Top isn't for confidant, it's for reachability particularly in grindier matchups. My deck doesn't really rush grindy decks, it outgrinds them.



@Seal and Storm:
LOL so the seals actually were not for Counter/Top. I mostly play online now and I was running into a lot of Leyline of the Void (Coming out of Shardless, 4c Loam, Eldrazi, etc) which is just a giant beating for the version I am playing with so I needed to do something and seal is what I decided on. I am actually down to just one seal now, which has been working out well.

Is Miracles not a concerning matchup?



So I am 13-2 against ANT (which feels high but thats what happened on Modo). I can kill on turn 4-5 with disruption pretty easily and between the 4 Therapys and the 4 Entombs to get additional Therapys If can generally slow them down to the point I cast about 5 of the them in a game where they don’t just kill me on turn two and the matchup gets better after sideboard. My matchups are slightly worse against the other faster storm/combo decks but still positive. The biggest problem I have had on the Combo side of the format is Reanimator. I mostly see the B/R version which just put a dork in play on turn one or two most of the time which is just too fast for me to interact with and they are more resilient that I first thought. So I have had to add an additional Surgical and a Pithing needle which has made it better.

I see- the Entombs improve the hand disruption consistency considerably.

[Vicar in a tutu]

I'm a bit surprised no one has brought up the new cards in Eldritch Moon, namely Cryptbreaker, Dark Salvation and Cemetery Recruitment. I'm not overly familiar with Zombardment, and I assume, in classic legacy fashion, that these new cards are not powerful enough to warrant inclusion, but are they so weak as to not even warrant closer scrutiny?

[Mallinard]

Has anyone discussed the card "Contamination" for this deck? For me this card is broken! what experiences did you have with it ?

[maharis]

I'm a bit surprised no one has brought up the new cards in Eldritch Moon, namely Cryptbreaker, Dark Salvation and Cemetery Recruitment. I'm not overly familiar with Zombardment, and I assume, in classic legacy fashion, that these new cards are not powerful enough to warrant inclusion, but are they so weak as to not even warrant closer scrutiny?

This deck epitomizes the synergy vs. goodstuff tension that exists in Legacy right now. The synergy between these cards is strong, but the payoff isn't as high as just running goodstuff. New cards with synergy are released all the time, but they don't raise the power level significantly enough.

[mistercakes]

This deck epitomizes the synergy vs. goodstuff tension that exists in Legacy right now. The synergy between these cards is strong, but the payoff isn't as high as just running goodstuff. New cards with synergy are released all the time, but they don't raise the power level significantly enough.

i would be surprised if cryptbreaker didn't see play. prob not a 4 of, but is a must kill in an attrition match.

[glowparty]

Contamination looks good (though less debilitating than Blood Moon). Contamination + Crawler & Bombard seems fun :)

Agree that Cryptbreaker may be worth testing.
Dark Salvation... make 1-2 2/2's & give a creature -1/-1 or -2/-2 is a lot of value from a card, but 3 or 5 mana.
Cemetary Recruitment is like Life from the Loam without dredge. I don't think Recruitment works with other cards in a considerable way. Imagine trying to play around a Deathrite, ughhh

[ottomanottoman]

Does anyone think Grim Flayer could have a place in this deck? It wouldn't be too hard to get delerium on line with the bridges, he puts stuff we want in the graveyard and helps with the top of our deck, he can beat down pretty well, and he plays nice with bob for the decks that run him.

[ESG]

Does anyone think Grim Flayer could have a place in this deck? It wouldn't be too hard to get delerium on line with the bridges, he puts stuff we want in the graveyard and helps with the top of our deck, he can beat down pretty well, and he plays nice with bob for the decks that run him.

No. If it were a zombie or had deathtouch, then maybe. One thing to consider with delerium is that opposing Tarmogoyfs will be very large (minimum 4/5 -- pretty awkward for your 4/4). That should be a concern for a deck with a bunch of creatures that can't block.

The zombie/Bloodghast recursion with Cabal Therapy and Innocent Blood is the strongest element of the deck. If someone asked me why Zombardment is a reasonable choice for a Legacy deck, that is what I would highlight.

Cryptbreaker would be worth testing in a build with Bridge from Below and maybe Buried Alive; otherwise, it will be difficult to get three zombies in play to activate the card drawing. I also like it with Mutavault in a build with fewer colors (and perhaps Contamination and Crucible of Worlds). I think Sylvan Library or Dark Confidant is going to be superior for card drawing, so that leaves us with Cryptbreaker's other ability. The discard effect is weaker than Pack Rat, and Pack Rat isn't played in this deck, so I doubt it would make the cut. That said, it at least has tribal relevance and would be good on a stalled board.

[glowparty]

Has Buried Alive been played with much? With 2+ bloodghasts it seems very useful versus fair decks, despite the versatility of Entomb.

I've been enjoying Darkblast maindeck. If bombardment is available, dredging can quicken its becoming online versus topdecking. When Darkblast's -1/-1 or -2/-2 is useful (creature/grind matchups and elves) it's been a powerful tactic. For grindy games, even without bombardment, dredging can get quick power with the recursive creatures.

The -2 ability of Liliana, The Last Hope has unique application here, much like dredging does. Bombardment has some synergy with the +1 (combining damage and/or reducing toughness), so I wonder if she can ultimate more often than Lili Of Veil. Last Hope's ultimate is probably more threatening, so I'm eager to try her out.

My perspective may be less useful for builds with Faithless Looting and Entomb. My list for reference:

4 gravecrawler
4 deathrite shaman
3 dark confidant
2 carrion feeder
1 lotleth troll
1 bloodghast

8 discard (4 therapy, 3 seize, 1 inquisition)
4 abrupt decay
3 liliana of the veil
3 bitterblossom
2 goblin bombardment
1 umezawa's jitte
1 garruk relentless
1 kolaghan's command
1 darkblast
1 mirri's guile

11 fetches
3 swamp
3 badlands
2 bayou
1 forest

[MD.Ghost]

Some short replys, because i still like this deck


Cryptbreaker's other ability. The discard effect is weaker than Pack Rat, and Pack Rat isn't played in this deck, so I doubt it would make the cut. That said, it at least has tribal relevance and would be good on a stalled board.

Thanks to "no block" theme, you can't stall the board unless you have some Lingering Souls Token (see the old build) and play against decks that can't pass the pesky 1/1 flyers. Sadly Cryptbreaker is only a 1/1 Dude that needs a lot of turns to be usefull, i would play Diregraf Colossus if you wan't something that (at least can) impact the field.

@glowparty

Buried Alive: First it do nothing (for 3 Mana), you simply put the cards into your yard, if it is Bloodghast you need at least a fetch, if its Zombie Stuff you need Zombies on the field etc. this deck has no spots for Buried Alive, for 3 Mana you get: Liliana, Kolaghan's Command or Lingering Souls which are stronger cards on its own.

Darkblast: Yes very good removal, unsure if it finds it place at Main, but thanks to (mainly) DnT Darkblast should be at your 75 pile of cards.

Liliana, The Last Hope: I guess "Last Hope" could work but have to fight with the common Liliana for her spot. Both are different, while the new one is much better vs DnT (Elves) etc the old one is stronger vs large single creatures (Eldrazi, Gofy etc) and you can use her vs Combo/Control. Both work well with the deck concept and cards like bombardment. I think Liliana of the Veil is still better, but if your meta is full of DnT or other fair decks with small dudes (Maverick, Infect, Elves etc.) than Liliana, The Last Hope can be a good choice. Should be pretty devastating if you mix in Bombardment and Darkblast.

[glowparty]

For Buried Alive, any land in hand also gets Ghasts back immediately. Granted, it seems shitty to maindeck a Buried Alive for grindy matchups but board it out against those decks for fear of GY disruption.

Darkblast is also great against all delver, infect, and merfolk. Beyond that the card stands out in its seamless integration -some of which I mentioned- against these matchups.

While probably better against elves & grixis (due to pyromancer and his tokens), I question if Liliana, The Last Hope is better against d&t. She seems better against Miracles (and perhaps lands?) due to the ultimate. Yes, Liliana Of The Veil's strengths include combo and eldrazi, as well as loam, nic fit, maybe merfolk.

[Qweerios]

So I've been playing Bombardment (Pyromancer version, no shitty zombies) for ages now and have put the deck away when Eldrazi became tier1. I really wanted the revive the deck because its Miracle and DnT matchups are so much fun to play and the deck has such a good combo matchup.

Without a card like Baleful Strix or fatties of its own, Zombardment has always struggled against big creatures such as Goyf, KotR, Angler, and Eldrazis. The deck also has a terrible preboard game against Lands and Loam decks because it plays mainly nonbasic lands and has no interaction with lands outside of postboard Blood Moon, Choke, and Needle. I also always found it difficult to fit in Swords to Plowshares between Bolt and Decay when keeping white to a minimal splash for Lingering Souls. Now more than ever I wish I had a few copies to deal with explosive Marrit Lage and all those Eldrazis/fatties.

I always found Entomb to be absolutely phenomenal in this deck since it allows me to:
-Decrease mainboard Bloodghast concentration (poor play/draw) as I only want Bloodghast on an clear boards or with Therapy or Bombardment
-Increase Therapy/Souls/Bloodghast availability
-Toolbox Ancient Grudge and Darkblast

What I tried squeezing in but never quite made it was a Wasteland package with a single Loam. This engine, which is synergistic with Bloodghast and flashback spells would provide a fix for many of Zombardment's problems by heavily crippling Delver and Eldrazi decks' manabase, dealing with Grove of the Burnwillows, and giving us a fighting chance against Lands. This little combination is also insanely good against many other decks and can even serve as a win condition. It is also worth noting how an active Loam provides a lot of card advantage with a card like Faithless Looting (which I never liked because it is so underwhelming without cards you actually want in your GY. Also, the card blows in multiples so I never liked the full set).

Given how crappy Dark Confidant has been lately, I've removed him in favor of Lootings and a Loam. Losing Bob allowed me to finally feel comfortable adding 2 Tombstalkers, which makes Burn, Shardless, Grixis, and Eldrazi matchups so much better.

Changes:
+2 Tombstalker, -2 Grim Lavamancer
+3 Looting, +1 Loam, -4 Bob
+3 Wasteland, -1 Swamp, -1 Fetch, -1 Library


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Bloodghast
2 Tombstalker

4 Entomb
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay

3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls
1 Life from the Loam

2 Goblin Bombardment

3 Wasteland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
//SB
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Sylvan Library
1 Choke
2 Liliana of the Veil


Pros:
-WasteLoam
-Alternate win condition (Tombstalker)
-more Instant/Sorcery for Pyromancer
-less life loss
-more deck manipulation

Cons:
-more graveyard reliant
-no more SB Blood Moon
-no more SB Spirit of the Labyrinth

I threw a pair of Thalias in the SB to replace Spirit of the Labyrinth. Added a pair of StP over Duress. I am still unsure if I want StP mainboard, perhaps over a Decay and a Thoughtseize. Not sold yet...

[Rampart]

what are peoples though on lightning bolt? It almost never sees play in this deck consistently but every time I put a more aggressive slant on the deck I come back to bolt as just being better over abrupt decay at least maindeck.

[EunB]

5-0 list on MTGO recently:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14591&f=LE

[MaximumC]

5-0 list on MTGO recently:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14591&f=LE

Yep, that's some aggro alright. Interesting that this list eshews the Lingering Souls... isn't flashing back that card one of the best things this deck can do? Perhaps getting your Vengevines out for fast beats is made necessary by Miracles?

[Rampart]

Yep, that's some aggro alright. Interesting that this list eshews the Lingering Souls... isn't flashing back that card one of the best things this deck can do? Perhaps getting your Vengevines out for fast beats is made necessary by Miracles?

That's my list, neat.

Maybe its me but I feel lingering souls is just such a mediocre payoff card, I get why its played, and its not a bad card if you have equipment in your deck. I really want to make it work becasue its one of my favorite cards but I keep going back and cutting it from my mardu lists. Right now I have Hidden Stockpile in that slot and it is over preforming and I can't see running Souls unless there is some major metagame shift.

The vengevine this is something I wanted to try out, its not really for Miracles but more for all the midrange decks as it give me a way to close the game very fast or if I am behind allows me to get back in the game. It also blocks pretty well which is nice and deals with planeswalkers which is also a bonus. Haven't found him hard to cast either

[Megadeus]

I mean there's no Zombies in it, but it has a similar game plan.


Land (22)

2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
2x Marsh Flats
1x Plateau
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Taiga
2x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills

Creature (18)

3x Basking Rootwalla
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Renegade Rallier
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
3x Vengevine
2x Whitemane Lion

Instant (3)

3x Swords to Plowshares

Artifact (3)

3x Smuggler's Copter

Sorcery (15)

4x Cabal Therapy
2x Cathartic Reunion
4x Faithless Looting
4x Lingering Souls
1x Roar of the Wurm

Sideboard (15)

2x Choke
2x Diabolic Edict
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Pithing Needle
4x Seal of Primordium
2x Tormod's Crypt

Renegade Rallier is pretty sick and Smuggler's Copter is also pretty nuts. Went 3-1 only losing to RW Tax Rack so... That's something I guess. I'm not sure if I was winning because my blind Cabal Therapies were insane or the deck is actually any good

[Mapson]

@megadeus

What were the three wins?

[Megadeus]

BeatMiracles, Show and Tell, and Storm. Lost to RW Tax Rack. So largely I was just hitting on blind therapy and won so I'm not sure how good the deck actually is, but I'm making adjustments and I'm going to try again next week.

[nedleeds]

BeatMiracles, Show and Tell, and Storm. Lost to RW Tax Rack. So largely I was just hitting on blind therapy and won so I'm not sure how good the deck actually is, but I'm making adjustments and I'm going to try again next week.

What kind of jobber brings RW Tax Rack to a Legacy event? Is this 1999?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/emn/92.jpg

is probably better than Roar in your deck ...

[Holiday]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any discussion in this thread about the new cards coming out in Amonkhet. I'm not saying any of them are definite fits in Zombardment but I think they are at least worth discussing.
I also realize that the blue mouse-over links don't work yet. They will in a week or so.

Bone Picker
3B
Bird
Bone Picker costs 3 less to cast if a creature died this turn.
Flying, deathtouch
3/2

He doesn't recur but he's a Deathtouching Delver for B and there's no shortage of creatures dying in this deck. I think he's worth testing at least.


Dread Wanderer
B
Zombie Jackal
Dread Wanderer enters the battlefield tapped.
2B: Return Dread Wanderer from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery and only if you have one or fewer cards in hand.
2/1

His recursion cost is probably too steep and too situational. It could compliment Gravecrawler if it returned for just B.

Bontu the Glorified
2B
God
Menace, indestructible
Bontu the Glorified can't attack or block unless a creature died under your control this turn.
1B, Sacrifice another creature: Scry 1. Each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
4/6

2B is probably too much for this deck. 4/6 menace, indestructible is nasty but I could only see running him if his Sacrifice ability was cheaper and had a stronger effect.

Festering Mummy
B
Zombie
When Festering Mummy dies, you may put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
1/1

RIP Festering Goblin (2002-2017) you are now out of a job. Considering the current lists don't run Goblin I doubt they will run this. It's ability does allow you to deal with larger creatures and have fun with Carrion Feeder and Bombardment.

Wayward Servant
WB
Zombie
Whenever another Zombie enters the battlefield under your control, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
2/2

I run 2 Blood Artist in my current build. The advantage this guy has is he can attack for 2 and is a zombie. If his text read "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control..." he'd be great but unfortunately he doesn't work with Bloodghast so he's probably not that good.


Let me know your thoughts.

[Nocioni88]

Dread wanderer is good maybe with entomb as 1x enabling gravecrawler, but i dunno. The bird instead seems good. Need a try.
Thoughts about 1x life from the loam? Im thinking about that. Im running 4x entomb, so im looking for some nice kind graveyard toolbox.
And about sharpshooter? Do u think is too slow?
I've played this deck many years ago and just came back. Some current list? Some thoughts that can help me building? Many thanks


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[ricste88]

Hey Everybody.

I'm usually playing Maverick but from 6 months more or less I came back to my hidden love: Zombardment.

after a lot of test I reached this list:

1 Rotting Rats
3 Carrion Feeder
3 Cryptbreaker
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Entomb
2 Collective Brutality
2 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
2 Bridge from Below
3 Goblin Bombardment
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire

Sideboard:

2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Null Rod
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Meekstone
1 Coffin Purge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Choke
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle

After many games played on cockatrice I decided to give him a chance in real tournaments. I started from a little tournament of 15 players, where I reached the top4 undefeated (and here we plitted), after that I brought to another tiny tournament with 23 players. Here I Lost game 1 from Death and Taxes beacuse I played really bad and my opponent for 2 times topdekced Batterskull when I had 5 lands in play, after that I won the tournament winning from Infect, 2 BUG Delver, UR landstill, ANT, Reanimator.

Than I choose to bring the deck in a bigger tournament that took place 2 weeks ago in Milan (Italy), where i hit the top8 loosing only 1 game in swiss from Maverick, and he will be the same player that will blow me up in the first round of the top8.

I didn't aspect performances like those one, but basically the deck dies only from Eldrazi (never faced in real) and lands. We have really good MU against combo decks thanx to the 6 MD discard effect and thanx to the really fast clock that we have (specially if we can assemble a board with Bombardment/feeder, a bloodghast/crawler and a Bridge in GY (easy to do with 3 entomb that can tutor bridges, ghast or crawler, plus 6 cards as enabler of our engine). Post board we bring in REB, Surgical, Purge (tutorable with entomb) and Null rod vs Ant or pithing needle and Meekstone vs reanimate

our worst enemies are all the Eldrazi, Tarmogoyf and Gurmag, this is the reason why I put 2 Toxic Deludge in sideboard instead than Zealous Persecution, meekstone help us too a lot. Plus with the Bridge from below we can create easily 5/6 Zombies in a turn, and they can block and pump Feeder or shot 1 dmg with bombardment, they give us a lot of time and pressure, and everything can be done at istant speed, People don't aspect it and they loose many games becuase of an entomb in combat phase or in EOT for a Bridge from below. One IMPORTANT thing to learn with this deck is to preserve our fetches in order to save pur bloodhgast from DRS and in order to use them when we assembled the mini combo Bomb+ghast+bridge that allow us to win the game.

Cryptbreaker is an amazing card! It's like a powerful version of Bitterblossom for our deck, it allow us to have blockers on the battlefield and he feeds our GY as well, plus it help us to build our hand after that we empty it, never thought that a card like this could have a role in a format like Legacy. I love this deck because it transform the crap in gold.

I'll make only one change: remove Purphoros from sideboard and replace it with a Liliana, The Last Hope: Purphy is a good plan vs grave-hate because it gives you an alternative plan, but is too slow, Liliana can replace it easily and can be useful in other MU like Grixis, Elves and Death and Taxes, other than Lands and Control and midrange deck.

What do you guys think?

[Xod]

list looks really nice, the last list I was trying to test was with vengevine and grisly salvage.

But I tested entomb and bridge before and they are both amazing. I think your list is really solid. Will try it myself, but currently on the bomberman bandwagon.

Do you have cards that you board out in each game?

[ricste88]

list looks really nice, the last list I was trying to test was with vengevine and grisly salvage.

But I tested entomb and bridge before and they are both amazing. I think your list is really solid. Will try it myself, but currently on the bomberman bandwagon.

Do you have cards that you board out in each game?


I used to play the grisly-vengevine in Modern, but I think that in Legacy is a too slow strategy, Vengevine can't find space anymore (for now), bombardment is a really solid and powerful plan.

Here some of my side-in and out.

ANT:

IN: 2 REB, 1 Null Rod, 3 Surgical, 1 Coffing Purge. OUT: 3 Cryptbraker, 1 Dakmor Salvage, 1 Decay, 2 Lingering Souls.
Is a pretty standard side. Breaker and lingering are too slow against combo. Decay is useless (unless you know that your opponent is running Thing in the ice) and 19 are enough against combo, we board out 2 of our most expensive cards.

DEATH AND TAXES:

IN: 1 Null Rod, 1 Pithing Needle, 2 Toxic Deludge, 2 Abrupt Decay, 1 Liliana, the Last Hope. OUT: 1 Gravecrawler, 1 Rotting Rats, 1 Entomb, 1 Bridge from Below, 1 Faithless Loothing, 2 Cabal Therapy.
I'll board out some stuff that interact with GY because of Rest in Peace and Containment Priest. Maybe we can board out both Bridges, but I'm still not sure about that. I'm usually not a fan of Discard effects against aggro deck post board, but in this case I leave a couple of therapy because of SFM, is easy to hit a blind therapy if they fetched for an equipment. We side in every removal spells (Liliana as well) and stuff vs Artifacts.


DELVER.Deck:

IN: 2 REB, 2 Toxic Deludge, 2 Decay, 1 Meekstone, 1 Liliana, the Last Hope (no vs RUG version), 1 choke, 1 Pithing Needle (only if they run Deathrite). OUT: 3 Carrion Feeder, 1 Gravecrawler, 1 Rotting Rats, 1 Bloodghast, 3 Therapy (1 Deathrite if needle come in).
We need removals to deal with big creatures (TNN, GURMAG, GOYF) and reb to kill delver/avoid cantrips. Feeder are not so good vs decays and push. I board out crawler and ghast because they board in Surgical, and I don't want to let them have too much vantage from a well casted surgical (in ex: they cast surgical targetting a crawler or a Bloodghast, and I have the second one in hand) I leave 1 Therapy because we can tutor it in order to protect our bombardment from FOW or Decay

REANIMATOR:

IN: 3 Surgical, 1 Coffing Purge, 1 Meekstone, 2 Toxic Deludge OUT: 3 Cryptbreaker, 1 Rotting Rats, 1 Dakmor Salvage, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Gravecrawler

In this Mu I side out the same cards that I board out VS ANT, but I leave lingerings, tutorable with entomb, can block Griselbradnd, and with a "sac effect" we avoid the lifegaining effect, deludge if they decide to reanimate a Grave Titan or an Elesh Norn (they can reanimate them again, but ususalyy they empty their hand in the first 1/2 turn, than is only tpodeck, so better try to kill a creature instead than die for sure, without anything that we can do), and Meekstone becuase they can't kill with only one Griselbrand swing

Miracle topless:

IN: 2 REB, 1 Choke, 1 Liliana the Last Hope, 1 pithing Needle, 2 Surgical Extraction. OUT: 2 Carrion Feeder, 2 Gravecrawler, 1 Bloodghast, 1 bridge from below, 1 Entomb

Pretty standard side, out bad staff that can be hit by surgical/RIP and Feeder (not strong against plow, but we leave 1 inside becuase we need the 4th "sac istant effect" in order to presevre bloodghast and crawler from a terminus) and in stuff to deal with Island, Jace, Snapcaster. Easy :)

This is what I can write for now, but It will continue :)

[Xod]

My biggest concern with this build is chalice on one.

It has limited spells that are not CMC 1 and only 1 way to destroy it pre-board (AD). In the side, I might sneak in a Ancient Grudge especially for CotV. In the case were you have a turn before they chalice, or they can't chalice on turn 1, you can still entomb for it.

Mostly because my meta has some eldrazi players and CotV on 1 players.

[Qweerios]

Play 4 Decays main if you care for Chalice. Between Decays and Grudge postboard you are better equipped than most decks to deal with it.

My issue with Zombardment is that the zombies suck and Crawler doesn't have a good enough support structure to be reliable. Feeder is garbage on its own (multiples are worst) and even combined with 1-2 Crawlers it's not that impressive by Legacy standards. Sculler is the only good one but he isn't amazing as its main appeal (discard) is much stronger at 1 mana mainly because of our broken Therapy plays.

I don't understand why more people don't pick up Young Pyro and Waste/Loam with 4 Entomb. This deck becomes a serious contender once you lose the chaff... The best way to reliably take advantage of Bombardment is to have a huge board presence, otherwise it is too easy to take apart. Building around Bombardment and Therapy is the best way to approach this deck, not around Crawler (because the support structure blows).

Just my opinion

[Alexeezay]

Agreed with Queerios actually, but I just found food for thought and testing...

In case you didn't know, there was a Zombardment Decktech on MTGGoldfish, using an innovative list from Japan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXrjGUfpQEE

Thoughts on Hidden Stockpile, did anybody of you test it before? Note that the Revolt trigger even works vs. Leyline of the Void/ Rest in Peace.

[Qweerios]

Agreed with Queerios actually, but I just found food for thought and testing...

In case you didn't know, there was a Zombardment Decktech on MTGGoldfish, using an innovative list from Japan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXrjGUfpQEE

Thoughts on Hidden Stockpile, did anybody of you test it before? Note that the Revolt trigger even works vs. Leyline of the Void/ Rest in Peace.

His deck is pretty sweet! I wish I could see it in action. I'm curious to see how important is Stockpile and how many wins he got by simply landing Blossom + Contamination, or by simply landing a Pact with his tutor package. I can definitely see Stockpile being on par if not superior to Pyromancer as both cards are likely to produce 1 token a turn. While Pyro has more potential for explosive turns and grants more immediate impact, Stockpile is harder to deal with and multiples look like they will definitely get out of hand. Contamination + Stockpile is definitely a powerful lock without the upkeep cost of a Blossom which is nice.

I would like to know how good Looting is in his deck as well. I never liked the card and without Crawler there is even less incentives to play it. Personally I've always found Entomb to be way superior to Looting. The second Looting has always been garbage for me and the games I lose are often because I run out of gas, not because I had bad selection. Dropping Souls or Therapy to Looting is not something I want to do often. I also dislike drawing Looting without Bloodghast and I dislike drawing Bloodghast without Looting. Given that Bloodghast isn't that hot on its own (AKA: without a good sac outlet), I like to keep him at a minimum and Entomb allows just that. Looking at 4 Lootings and 4 Ghasts for 4 Therapies and 1(+2) Bombardment seems like too many Bloodghasts for nothing. However, Looting is one of the cheapest means of card selection for this deck so it acts as our own little Brainstorm with a drawback that we can sometimes mitigate or take advantage of but not always. Looting + Loam though, now that's something I can get behind.

If anything I think his success at the tournament has more to do with his backbreaking enchantment toolbox than the actual synergy of the core cards. Landing a Pact against any Aggro deck or a surprise Contamination is devastating.

[Alexeezay]

So I quickly made up this list, picking up on the Enchantment list and the Entomb style:

// 60 Maindeck

2 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Cryptbreaker
3 Gravecrawler
1 Dread Wanderer

1 Contamination
4 Hidden Stockpile
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Grave Pact

1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Entomb

3 Lingering Souls
1 Life from the Loam
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize

// 21 Land
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Dark Confidant
SB: 1 Contamination
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Coffin Purge
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Marsh Casualties

Could be alright, no?
Trying out this 8-Zombie package, I want to try Cryptbreaker out first.
After that, the package will be replaced by:
2 Bitterblossom
2 Looting
2nd E-Tutor
4th Entomb
4th Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[Qweerios]

I like where your list is going. I think Crypbreaker is too weak and that your replacements all look like much more powerful cards to run over the zombies.

Also I believe that if you choose to go a tutor package, then the 2nd Bombardment and 2nd Pact aren't necessary. The 2nd Bombardment is worthless and redundant with Jitte, and Pact is a narrow card that wins on its own when relevant. The 3rd Wasteland is probably better than the 2nd Swamp too. I personally play 22 Lands including 4 Wastes when I'm on Entomb/Loam.

I question the tutor package mainboard for a few reasons:
First, Tutor is card disadvantage. Second, with Loam, Contamination is less desirably and without Contamination the package offers mainly Bombardment, Jitte and Pact which are all redundant Creature hate cards. Why not simply play 3 Bombardment instead of the varied hate and focus on that instead?

I find it difficult to accept the absence of removal altogether in this deck. I still believe removing a T1 DRS is very important and so is having an answer to Leo or Goyf/Gurmag without having to chump forever.

[Qweerios]

What removal spells do you like most pre-board?

I find that my most common road blocks G1 are:

Deathrite on T1 simply needs to be answered or the tempo gains and GY hate become real
Leovold at any point is big enough to block profitably and shuts down too many interactions
Chalice on T1-2
Jitte if I don't have Bombardment or facing TNN
Fatties (mainly Goyf and Gurmag) to a lesser extent if I am struggling to build a board position or losing a race
Elesh Norn is game over

Postboard I also can't let Cage or RiP slide too long as those cards prevent me from going over the top.

Swords to Plowshares takes care of DRS, Leo, and fatties for 1 mana. However the mana cost is white which is a slight splash. Giving life is a small drawback and removing DRS for 1 mana is very important as it is the most common threat.

Fatal Push takes care of DRS, Leo, and fatties except Gurmag and Elesh Norn for 1 easily obtainable mana (even though Moon). I see Push as the in-between of StP and Push.

Bolt takes care of DRS and Leo for 1 easily obtainable mana (even though Moon). With Bolt you have to race the fatties rather than answer them. Bolt is never a dead card but it is the most narrow removal for this deck.

Decay takes care of DRS, Leo, Jitte, Chalice, postboard GY hate, and fatties except Gurmag and Elesh Norn. Requiring green is a drawback as there is green in the deck only for Loam and DRS, and costing 2 mana is a tempo loss against DRS (the most common threat). Chalices and Jittes aren't exactly rampant but they are common enough to be worrisome. Decay is by far the most versatile removal for this deck at the heaviest cost. The fact that Decay is somewhat of a necessity in our SB anyway is a good enough reason to include some number of Decays mainboard.

My current inclination is to play 4 removal spells mainboard, either 4 Decays or 2 Decay/2 StP, and complement the suite with an additional 2 targeted removal spells postboard (2 StP or the missing 2 Decays).

My list is mostly GY dependant with a Young Pyro package to maximize Therapy


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bloodghast

4 Entomb
4-5 Removal (Decay/StP/Bolt/Push/Etc.)

2-3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
1 Life from the Loam

3 Goblin Bombardment

3-4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Swamp

[Alexeezay]

I think that Fatal Push might the best removal spell in this deck because it's castable off Basic Swamp and Revolt is super easy to turn on in this deck, even without a fetchland. But...
Grixis Delver is very big, so you really need to be able to deal with Gurmag Angler imo.

In your list I'd play MD 3 Swords to Plowshares 2 Abrupt Decay (to not fold to Chalice of the Void which is the other big part seeing play by Eldrazi, 4C Loam and Stompy) with Grudge and Decay SB I guess

Also, Deathrite Shamans give the nod to STP I think (making Swords easier to cast and not getting rekt by a timely Wasteland). In a time without DRS I'd play Fatal Push.

[Alexeezay]

Thought about this the other day:

28 Cards
4 Hollow One
4 Vengevine
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Deathrite Shaman

4 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cabal Therapy

18 Lands
10 Fetches
6 Duals
2 Basics

14 Other Cards
X Bloodghast
X Gravecrawler
X Zombie XY
X Gurmag Angler
X Decay/Push
X Goblin Bombardment

the 14 could be:
4 Gravecrawler
3 Cryptbreaker
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
2 Goblin Bombardment

At least the Sideboard should include Thoughtseizes then.
if only Hollow One was a Zombie... :P

[Xod]

All the synergies look really cool. Although I think Bloodghast is better than gravecrawler, with vengevine I understand his addition. (although with very few zombies)

Have you thought about other madness cards to create value? Asylum Visitor, Big Game Hunter or Reckless Wurm :-) or enablers like Liliana of the Veil.

The abrupt decays definitely needs to be in the 75, but I don't know about the MD. Maybe the TS or more pushes are better.

[Xod]

if only grisly salvage said 'discard' :laugh:

[Qweerios]

Thought about this the other day:

28 Cards
4 Hollow One
4 Vengevine
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Deathrite Shaman

4 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cabal Therapy

18 Lands
10 Fetches
6 Duals
2 Basics

14 Other Cards
X Bloodghast
X Gravecrawler
X Zombie XY
X Gurmag Angler
X Decay/Push
X Goblin Bombardment

the 14 could be:
4 Gravecrawler
3 Cryptbreaker
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
2 Goblin Bombardment

At least the Sideboard should include Thoughtseizes then.
if only Hollow One was a Zombie... :P

The concept is cool but I don't think Hollow One strong enough to build around. He would be strong if he fit naturally in a deck but having to jam rootwallas and other jank cards to make him work is too weak. Also I think that Vengevine is a deck on it's own and needs Burried Alive or Intuition to be optimal.

Back to the removal question, why Fatal Push over Bolt? Push only hits Goyf that Bolt doesn't and going to the face is huge when a TNN lands. Push still doesn't hit Gurmag, Marrit Lage or Elesh Norn, and Goyf is quite scarce if I am not mistaken.

[Xod]

I think your argument of Bolt over Push is correct.

Also the 2 times decay main are not bad, for CotV game 1, it is backbreaking.

But the synergies in the deck are quite strong, you don't need buried alive. A turn 2 Faithless looting can lead to a turn 3 or 4 kill.

Turn 1: Land, DRS/Gravecrawler/Cryptbreaker/cabal therapy/ or something.
Turn 2: Land, Faithless Looting, discard Vengevine/Basking Rootwalla/Gravecrawler, cast the rootwalla, cast a Hollow One (for 1)/cast a gravecrawler from the grave, trigger the vengevine and attack for at least 4.

Faithless looting is the allstar in this deck, and the best part, it can be flashed back!

Collective Brutality is also very cool with the creatures, since the discard is part of the cost. Btw, how does it work with the rootwalla? Do you first cast it, define the modes and discard the cards, after the discarded cards, you can cast rootwalla, and then brutality resolves? (seems it should be like this)

Will try the deck next week Friday.

[Qweerios]

I think you cast Brutality and choose to escalate or not. Then you pick your mods with their respective targets. If you escalate by discarding a Rootwalla, Madness will trigger on top of Brutality therefore resolving first. If Rootwalla is your second creature of the turn and you have Vengevine in your GY (whether its from escalate or prior doesn't matter), Vengevine will trigger and the trigger will be put on top of Rootwalla (which is already on top of Brutality). An example would be having 3 mana on T3, cast a Crawler followed by a Brutality escalated with VV and Rootwalla. You would then get a Brutality with all 3 mods on the stack with a Rootwalla being cast via Madness on top and a VV Trigger on top of Rootwalla. The chain would resolve as follow: Vengevine(s) returns -> Rootwalla resolves -> Brutality with 3 mods resolves.

[Qweerios]

Am I alone thinking that Zombies benefit greatly from the DRS ban?

Alpine Moon is the answer to a considerable amount of troublesome cards notably Punishing Grove and Tabernacle while also being relevant against marrit lage. For the purpose of this deck, Alpine is a strict upgrade to Needle. Between Alpine and Blood Moon in an Etutor package featuring Bridge, I feel confident bringing this to a tournament. I also believe we will see much less Gurmags and much more Goyfs, SFM and combo decks which are all adressed by Push and heavy discard.

Here's a list I'd like to try soon:

4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tidehollow Sculler

3 Fatal Push
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Alpine Moon
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Blood Moon
1 Grave Pact / Ensnaring Bridge

[Kobra_D]

Am I alone thinking that Zombies benefit greatly from the DRS ban?

Alpine Moon is the answer to a considerable amount of troublesome cards notably Punishing Grove and Tabernacle while also being relevant against marrit lage. For the purpose of this deck, Alpine is a strict upgrade to Needle. Between Alpine and Blood Moon in an Etutor package featuring Bridge, I feel confident bringing this to a tournament. I also believe we will see much less Gurmags and much more Goyfs, SFM and combo decks which are all adressed by Push and heavy discard.

Here's a list I'd like to try soon:

4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tidehollow Sculler

3 Fatal Push
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Alpine Moon
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Blood Moon
1 Grave Pact / Ensnaring Bridge


You're not the only one, I've been playing zombardment on/off for the past year. It's just that it also seems to be a bit missing in some places. It's kind of an aggro deck, but it is also disruptive with discard, but it usually feels like 1 card is missing. I've been able to often get fair opponents to discard their hand along with myself, putting us in topdeck mode, but their topdeck brainstorm is usually better than my land trigger bloodghast.

Unfair decks were easier in my oppinion as you can shred the hand pretty effectively.

All that being said, I have only played versions without bob and with some number of bridge from below, and that often felt just a little too clunky. I do like lingering souls in you list now that DRS is gone.

Why no entomb? It's the best tutor a graveyard deck has. Ensnaring bridge is A+ in the sideboard I bumped it to 2 when I played.

Lastly, Urborg Justice seems like too much, but getting to tag TNN, reanimator, or just a wide board is really helpful.

Super glad to have someone to bounce ideas off of, most people have moved away this deck.

[Qweerios]

You're not the only one, I've been playing zombardment on/off for the past year. It's just that it also seems to be a bit missing in some places. It's kind of an aggro deck, but it is also disruptive with discard, but it usually feels like 1 card is missing. I've been able to often get fair opponents to discard their hand along with myself, putting us in topdeck mode, but their topdeck brainstorm is usually better than my land trigger bloodghast.

Unfair decks were easier in my oppinion as you can shred the hand pretty effectively.

All that being said, I have only played versions without bob and with some number of bridge from below, and that often felt just a little too clunky. I do like lingering souls in you list now that DRS is gone.

Why no entomb? It's the best tutor a graveyard deck has. Ensnaring bridge is A+ in the sideboard I bumped it to 2 when I played.

Lastly, Urborg Justice seems like too much, but getting to tag TNN, reanimator, or just a wide board is really helpful.

Super glad to have someone to bounce ideas off of, most people have moved away this deck.

Glad to have someone to discuss the deck with!

I played all variants of Bombardment over the years (Living Dead Girl, Young Frank, Zombardment, and even made a thread for The Expendables) and I agree with you that the deck feels like it is lacking sometimes. Our disruption is phenomenal but we don't have free counterspells and discard is terrible in topdeck mode. Our creatures are smalls and can't always block so huge creatures (especially with Trample) require some removal. Combo decks are generally pretty good matchups however, especially the slower ones. Control decks are very interesting and can be a walk in the park when we get to navigate RiP. Aggro decks can be walled and raced with Lingering Souls quite effectively without needing to commit too much space to removal spells pre-board now that DRS is gone.

I am a huge fan of Entomb for this deck and always played 4 copies back when I played DRS and Young Pyro. The reason why i don't play Entomb with a Zombie package is simply that I don't have the space for it. I would love to include it but there is a tension between Looting and Entomb. Entomb gives you virtual copies of Bloodghast and some toolbox cards so it tends to eat up the space of Ghast/Souls #3-4 and the flex slots (Bob and Removal). Looting on the other hand wants the deck loaded with cards you want to draw and discard from your hand (mandatory 4 Ghast, 4 Souls, 4 Therapy, 4 Crawler). Without YP, Entomb lost a lot of value in the deck IMO as Entombing for Souls and Therapy is now much less appealing. I also can't Entomb for Grudge since I don't play green anymore. Entomb increases our dependency to the GY and can become a liability for G2/3 as well.

Concerning Urborg Justice, I always preferred Liliana of the Veil in the SB. It gives me that sac effect, that discard outlet, that additional grind against control and shuts the door on combo. I used to play 3-4 copies in my SB but I went down to 2 in favor of some other silver bullet SB cards.

it is difficult to compose a SB map and figure out exactly what I want out of my SB now that the meta is wide open. I can explain some card choices and how I got to these numbers though...

4 Carrion Feeder - I want 4 CMC1 Zombies that synergize with Crawler and Ghast via T1 Looting
4 Gravecrawler - Core
4 Bloodghast - Core
4 Dark Confidant - IMO one of the best ways to capitalize and early discard and dig through the deck to increase the availability of synergistic cards. Gives us extra grind and dig combined with Looting.
3 Tidehollow Sculler - Zombie + disruption that is great against Reanimator and can be grabbed with ETutor. I could play less or more. Time will tell.

3 Fatal Push - My removal of choice. Push gets the nod over StP for being black. StP was relegated to the SB for Reanimator/Depths and as added removal.
3 Thoughtseize - I used to play 2 copies when I had Entomb but I had to bump it to 3 in order to have at least 11 respectable proactive T1 plays.
4 Cabal Therapy - Core
4 Faithless Looting - Core
4 Lingering Souls - Core with 4x Looting

3 Goblin Bombardment - Core

1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
2 Liliana of the Veil - Catch-all and nail in the coffin for many decks
2 Swords to Plowshares - Added removal for Delver/Goyf/Eldrazi matchups as well as answer to Elesh Norn from Reanimator and emergency answer to Marrit Lage
2 Surgical Extraction - Mandatory GY hate. I might need a 3rd copy.
2 Wear // Tear - Mostly there for T0 Leyline of Sanctity/Void, postboard RiP, Chalice, and various Equipments.
1 Enlightened Tutor - Silver bullet enabler that also grab Sculler and Bombardment
1 Nihil Spellbomb - Tutorable GY hate. Maybe Tormod's is better because of Chancellor of the Annex? Perhaps a 3rd Surgical is preferable?
1 Umezawa's Jitte - I needed a plan against Burn and active Moms when Bombardment gets Revoked. Also races TNN nicely.
1 Ensnaring Bridge - You know how good this one is...
1 Alpine Moon - Tutorable tech against Grove, Tabernacle, and Depths for instance. CMC1 is extremely relevant when compared to Blood Moon.
1 Seal of Cleansing - Tutorable Wear // Tear. A 3rd Wear // Tear might be preferable here? CMC 1 against Enchantments (Leyline) is kinda important...
1 Blood Moon - Additional nonbasic hate that acts as hoser for many decks. Blood Moon is such a smooth inclusion in this deck. 1/1 Blood/Alpine split for now.

Let me know what you think

[Kobra_D]

Some of the card choices I am a bit skeptical of. The 4 Carrion Feeder 4 Grave crawler is what stands out to me, I started with 4 of each and quickly found myself underwhelmed with each eventually dropping them to 2/1 split respectively.

That being said, I've only played zombies in a heavy grixis, Czech pile meta, where carrion feeder is walled by elemental tokens, and Grave crawler is quickly gobbled up as a casualty. Also, neither being able to block gurmag was sometimes stressful, as attacking led to chump blocks followed by pretty hard crack backs.

I founds some success with jitte as it makes blocking bloodghast that much more stressful.

With all this, every card I've evaluated in the deck has been done through the lens of the previous meta. And so I'm not sure if this is right to be more proactive, or to start to see where the shifts lead and capitalize on that. Because, while the deck struggles to pivot quickly, I did find that it can be built to be more disruptive, or more aggressive, out of the gate.

I like you're list a lot with the dark confidants but I think I'm going to tweak it a little, dropping some of the carrions for entombs and start there.

[Qweerios]

What do you Entomb for other than Ghast and Therapy? Entombing for Souls is underwhelming and grabing Bridge from Below is win-more IMO since it implies you already have either a huge board position or a recurring engine going. The unearth Ghoul is okay at best... What's the big draw?

Also, Smuggler's Copter sounds quite decent in this deck. I doubt it's any better than the other availlable cards but it is something worth keeping an eye out for.

I did some goldfishing and I agree with you that 4 Feeders is probably too many. I basically never want to draw multiples. I will cut one for the 4th Push. 3 removal spells is definitely not enough to handle any of the Delver -> Goyf openers that I expect from Canadian/American Delver decks to come out... Chumping with souls is nice and all but I think you need minimal removal to weather the early game and get your synergy rolling (AKA: get Bob and/or Looting rolling).

Tidehollow Sculler however is definitely up there in terms of quality Zombies. It is great against every deck and is by far the best Crawler/Bombardment enabler. I don't know exactly how many I want yet but so far I can only fit 3 in anyway...

[Hanni]

Carrion Feeder is useful to help blank Swords to Plowshares and Terminus, for what it's worth.

[ottomanottoman]

Been a fan of zombardment since I got into legacy as it was one of the first decks that piqued my interests so I’m excited for the potential this deck has in the deathrite-less meta. Don’t know if you all saw this but a zombardment list just went 5-2 in the most recent mtgo legacy challenge with stitcher’s supplier and bitterblossom main.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1187563#paper

[ReAnimator]

Sam Blacks SCG article from last week was all about Zombardment in the post banning world. If anyone has premium go check it out ( it think it goes free after 3-4 weeks). Some interesting food for thought.

There are a couple of lists:

Creatures (19)

4 Bloodghast (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Bloodghast&auto=Y)
4 Carrion Feeder (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Carrion+Feeder&auto=Y)
4 Gravecrawler (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Gravecrawler&auto=Y)
3 Scourge of Nel Toth (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Scourge+of+Nel+Toth&auto=Y)
4 Stitcher's Supplier (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Stitcher%27s+Supplier&auto=Y)

Lands (20)

3 Swamp (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Swamp&auto=Y)
3 Badlands (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Badlands&auto=Y)
3 Bloodstained Mire (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Bloodstained+Mire&auto=Y)
2 Marsh Flats (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Marsh+Flats&auto=Y)
2 Polluted Delta (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Polluted+Delta&auto=Y)
2 Scrubland (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Scrubland&auto=Y)
2 Undiscovered Paradise (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Undiscovered+Paradise&auto=Y)
3 Verdant Catacombs (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Verdant+Catacombs&auto=Y)


Spells (21)

3 Goblin Bombardment (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Goblin+Bombardment&auto=Y)
2 Burning Inquiry (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Burning+Inquiry&auto=Y)
4 Cabal Therapy (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Cabal+Therapy&auto=Y)
4 Faithless Looting (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Faithless+Looting&auto=Y)
4 Lingering Souls (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Lingering+Souls&auto=Y)
4 Thoughtseize (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Thoughtseize&auto=Y)



2 Pithing Needle (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Pithing+Needle&auto=Y)
4 Tidehollow Sculler (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Tidehollow+Sculler&auto=Y)
2 Diabolic Edict (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Diabolic+Edict&auto=Y)
1 Surgical Extraction (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Surgical+Extraction&auto=Y)
3 Wear (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Wear&auto=Y)
2 Innocent Blood (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Innocent+Blood&auto=Y)
1 Perish (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Perish&auto=Y)






























Creatures (15)

4 Blood Artist (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Blood+Artist&auto=Y)
4 Bloodghast (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Bloodghast&auto=Y)
4 Mogg War Marshal (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Mogg+War+Marshal&auto=Y)
2 Scourge of Nel Toth (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Scourge+of+Nel+Toth&auto=Y)
1 Squee, the Immortal (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Squee%2C+the+Immortal&auto=Y)

Lands (20)

2 Mountain (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Mountain&auto=Y)
2 Swamp (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Swamp&auto=Y)
3 Arid Mesa (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Arid+Mesa&auto=Y)
3 Badlands (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Badlands&auto=Y)
4 Bloodstained Mire (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Bloodstained+Mire&auto=Y)
2 Marsh Flats (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Marsh+Flats&auto=Y)
1 Plateau (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Plateau&auto=Y)
2 Scrubland (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Scrubland&auto=Y)
1 Undiscovered Paradise (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Undiscovered+Paradise&auto=Y)


Spells (25)

3 Goblin Bombardment (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Goblin+Bombardment&auto=Y)
4 Cabal Therapy (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Cabal+Therapy&auto=Y)
2 Collective Brutality (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Collective+Brutality&auto=Y)
4 Faithless Looting (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Faithless+Looting&auto=Y)
4 Lingering Souls (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Lingering+Souls&auto=Y)
4 Thoughtseize (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Thoughtseize&auto=Y)
4 Bitterblossom (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Bitterblossom&auto=Y)


Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Pithing+Needle&auto=Y)
1 Diabolic Edict (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Diabolic+Edict&auto=Y)
3 Surgical Extraction (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Surgical+Extraction&auto=Y)
2 Swords to Plowshares (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Swords+to+Plowshares&auto=Y)
3 Wear (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Wear&auto=Y)
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Kambal%2C+Consul+of+Allocation&auto=Y)
1 Innocent Blood (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Innocent+Blood&auto=Y)
1 Inquisition of Kozilek (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Inquisition+of+Kozilek&auto=Y)
1 Karakas (http://www.starcitygames.com/results/?name=Karakas&auto=Y)

[aromaticity]

So I played the Challenge list last night (except swapping one Gurmag for a Scourge, just to test it out) with pretty abysmal results. I think I won two matches I played? One against what I assume was bizzaro stormy and I got one against one of the many fair decks I played against.

I'd blame my results largely on me having no idea what I was doing, but I also had some abysmal luck - I played against a naturally drawn Jitte almost every game.

I've always thought these lists were super cool, and I'm planning on trying again tonight at a local event. The biggest issue I'm facing is that I have no idea how to sideboard. What to bring in is typically pretty clear, though I am very hesitant about over-boarding, but making cuts is difficult. Since the deck is very synergy based and many of the cards are weak individually, cutting some of the zombies makes the other ones worse and it just kind of... feels bad.

If anyone could supply me with some general sideboarding guidelines, I would greatly appreciate it. I also think I'm likely to try an E-Tutor package for tonight, or at least will jam some Ensnaring Bridges in the board - having read a couple pages of past discussion, I can see why Bridge was talked about so highly.

[toothbrush]

Early impressions -

Stitcher's Supplier feels exactly like what this deck has been wanting. Card is GAS. Blocker, sac-able body, 6 more cards in the graveyard. Jesus.

Have only goldfished at this point, but Sam Black's graveyard-dependent, zombie-heavy build (4 Supplier, 3 Scourge) feels faster and a good deal more consistent than the deck's prior iterations. The old Zombardment was a different animal depending on whether you drew faithless looting. Supplier picks up so much slack here by milling you into your Bloodghasts and Gravecrawlers - and giving you the Zombie body to pull the crawlers out of the yard. Not as good as looting because you don't get to filter your hand - and certainly creates a liability in terms of heavier graveyard dependency/graveyard hate vulnerability. The Supplier/Scourge tandem also shifts you towards combat and away from reach.

Perhaps a kind of transformational sideboarding plan would be helpful. Lean as hard as you want on the graveyard in Game 1, win violently and fast. Pivot away in Game 2 to mitigate the effects of sideboarded-in graveyard hate.

I'm going to test this:

4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Undiscovered Paradise

2 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Goblin Bombardment

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Scourge of Nel Toth
1 Anger

Sideboard is a work in progress, but would involve some combination of Surgical Extractions, Wear/Tears, Dark Confidants, Tidehollow Scullers, maybe a Zealous Persecution or Perish, and perhaps a copy of Innocent Blood/Tragic Slip/Fatal Push. Idea would be to side out the Entombs, Anger, some number of Scourges/Stitchers for Game 2 to dodge the hate.

Anger is the only spicy technological addition here. Worth a look. This deck is a joy to play and I could not be happier that the DRS ban is breathing new life into it. Glad to know your thoughts, and cheers.

[grimfield]

I think if you are going to play entomb 1x bridge from below seems good. The synergy with gravecrawler + sac is insane.


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[maharis]

I lent my friend some badlands and he played this last night. He didn't do great but I think Goblin Bombardment is the best card in the deck and there should be more.

Not sure how I feel about Stitcher's Supplier. This isn't exactly dredge, I think we want more control over what goes in the GY. Maybe with a Dakmor Salvage in the list to help trigger Bloodghasts and hit land drops? It's not legal in paper yet so my friend played Zombie Infestation which was mediocre. We also considered Putrid Imp.

[Kobra_D]

What do you Entomb for other than Ghast and Therapy? Entombing for Souls is underwhelming and grabing Bridge from Below is win-more IMO since it implies you already have either a huge board position or a recurring engine going. The unearth Ghoul is okay at best... What's the big draw?

Also, Smuggler's Copter sounds quite decent in this deck. I doubt it's any better than the other availlable cards but it is something worth keeping an eye out for.

I did some goldfishing and I agree with you that 4 Feeders is probably too many. I basically never want to draw multiples. I will cut one for the 4th Push. 3 removal spells is definitely not enough to handle any of the Delver -> Goyf openers that I expect from Canadian/American Delver decks to come out... Chumping with souls is nice and all but I think you need minimal removal to weather the early game and get your synergy rolling (AKA: get Bob and/or Looting rolling).

Tidehollow Sculler however is definitely up there in terms of quality Zombies. It is great against every deck and is by far the best Crawler/Bombardment enabler. I don't know exactly how many I want yet but so far I can only fit 3 in anyway...

Entombing for ghast and therapy are something that happen often for me (usually to enable the other) but also provide copies 5-8 of each of those cards, which is not irrelevant. It also let's you grab dakmor salvage and darkblast, both of which I would run in the 60 if not 75. 1 of rotting rats to unearth was just to provide something that could be grabbed to enable gravecrawler. Although, that is seeming like less of an issue now.

I'm not sure if bridge is a win more card, if you have creatures on board and you opponent wants to kill them and the tokens to stabilize, then you've built in 2-1's. Similarly if bombardment is active, you're losing a creature, but bridge puts you at parity to maintain pressure. Double plus, the zombies enable grave crawler. I'm not sure I'm ready to give up on bridge yet, it does a lot of work.

I'm not arguing against tidehollow sculler, the card is great, it is a 2mana tks, effectively. My only issue is that is extends the mana base further than it may need to go. I used to run bloodmoons in the side and white was sometimes hard to ensure while playing around it.



Carrion Feeder is useful to help blank Swords to Plowshares and Terminus, for what it's worth.

That is not irrelevant. StP is easily the best against this deck. It's just that 4 always felt like a bit much. It often hits the ground by itself and felt anemic in the face of a 5/5. The tribal can't block feelsbads also felt bad. Partly why I've been interested in some number of smuggler's copter.

In regards to sam blacks list, the stitch supplier and burning inquiry seem like great includes. It's correct that this sin't a dredge deck, but all of the engines work from the yard and moving pieces there now efficiently isn't bad. Especially in the case of burning inquiry which also acts as interaction with the opponent.

[toothbrush]

In re: my last post, Anger feels like win more. Too situational.

Supplier/Scourge kind of pushes the deck in a dredge-light direction. Am testing dropping white for blue. Lingering Souls, Sculler and sideboard options out, careful study (x4), prized amalgam in with a lower land count.

[Qweerios]

Stitcher's Supplier sounds great! I'm afraid I'll have to play him over Bob but in the end he might just be better. The Zombie that comes to mind for me here is Gurmag Angler as a 2-3of. With the amount of fetches and lootings that we play, a T2 Gurmag is very possible.

I played Zombardment at a 40ish player legacy weekly and it was awesome! I played the last list I posted.

R1 Bye....
R2 2-1 BR Daretti/Welder brew
R3 1-2 Sneak n Show
R4 2-1 Manaless Dredge

[maharis]

I took this through a league:

4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Dakmor Salvage
3 Badlands
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Swamp
2 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Mountain

4 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lingering Souls
3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Entomb
2 Bitterblossom
1 Bridge from Below

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast

SB (direct lift from ScavengingBooze):
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wear // Tear
2 Zealous Persecution


1-2 Dredge (I actually should've won game 3 but made a crucial mistake of using Surgical to hit Bridge instead of Dread Return. It was just instinct and I forgot that I had won the previous game by using my self-sacrifice abilities to clear Bridges... This allowed him to get Elesh Norn in play off Narcos and Ichorids and I had an 8/8 carrion feeder that was 1/1 too small.)
2-0 Nic Fit
0-2 Burn (this is so bad it may be worth SB warmth)
2-0 Stoneblade
1-2 Storm (had him to empty hand in G3 but he had lots of mana in play and topdecked the win)

-I still think Goblin Bombardment is the best card in the deck. As a board control option it singlehandedly beat Nic Fit and Stoneblade. Smart players counter the shit out of it and you always want it. Has to be at least 3-of.

-Stitcher's Supplier is close to making me a believer but milling over two Bombardments gave me agita.

-The Entomb/Bridge package seems soft on paper but is huge in practice. Bridge gives you wins you have no business winning (helped close out games vs. Dredge and Storm). Entombing Lingering Souls with Bombardment out is good reach. I entombed Therapy vs. Storm as well.

-However, I do think I might need some sort of beefier creature. Angler or Tombstalker seems most obvious, but I also like Scourge of Nel Toth and Bone Dragon as they would be Entombable. Possibly worth moving Bitterblossom to side and playing the bigger creature in its place. I don't know that 3 Wear/Tear is necessary.

-Basic mountain and Dakmor Salvage weren't great, but didn't kill me... I want to try the mountain a couple more times just so you can't be cut off of red for looting and bombardment. Dakmor Salvage never ended up in the GY so I may just make that the other Paradise.

[grimfield]

Has anyone tried out a jund version? I used to run it, mostly for deathrite. Decay is good in the board and possibly grisly salvage? Satyr wayfinder also seems ok though it would be nice if he was a zombie. Probably not necessary with stitcher’s supplier as he is just better. Lotleth troll seems fun pitching crawlers and ghasts but is probably terrible.

Also lets you run choke if you want. Or ground seal, which seems decent depending on hate. Ancient grudge also becomes an option.

On another note, I really like the card urborg justice in the side. Lets you answer fat or tnn with ease, very easy to turn on. Tragic slip is similar but generally decks with creatures you can’t kill via bombardment are susceptible to edicts.


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[Qweerios]

Wow lots of discussion going on! I'll try to answer a few points that were brought up. Here we go:

-How many Carrion Feeders? The primary function of feeder is to be a sacrifice outlet, the second is to be a CMC1 Zombie. The card itself is garbage but those 2 points provide high synergy with the rest of the deck. The best sacrifice outlet in this deck is by far Bombardment. We want no more than 3 copies of Bombardment because we basically never want to see multiple copies but we highly desire the effect. Once a Bombardment is in play, the effect of Feeder is irrelevant. Feeder's sacrifice effect, like Bombardment, doesn't stack so drawing multiple Feeders is not something we can take much advantage of other than splitting the distribution of counters. Feeder's zombie typing and low CMCi are great at enabling Crawler recursion. With supplier coming out, zombie typing and Therapy fodder will be more readily availlable and Feeder's inclusion will hinge more on it's ability than it's typing. For these reasons I believe we want to play as many Feeders as we play Bombardments. I currently play no more than 3 copies.

-You need mainboard removal! I am not going to tell Sam Black how to play and I understand how nearly every list is modelled after his deck. However, removal plays a critical role in this deck and is often the only way out. First, we don't have the most efficient aggro plan, therefore efficient aggro decks will put a lot of pressure on us to assemble a strong engine or board position. Removal (and/or a fatty) is key when facing any Delver/Goyf, Eldrazi, or Burn/Sligh decks as it removes enough early pressure for us to get Souls to chump block and some degree of recursive beats. Second, there are a lot of decks that have access to mainboard hosers against our deck namely Ooze, Elesh Norn, and to some degree Revoker and Mirran Crusader. Any deck with GSZ (Elves, Maverick, Bant) will have mana acceleration into an Ooze. Ooze singlehandedly destroys this deck... It is way worst than DRS. If reanimator grabs Elesh Norn, we auto-lose. DnT has access to a lot of disruption that can prevent us from functioning. An active Mom and a Jitte or a simple Revoker on Bombardment is nearly insurmountable without removal. My last list contained 4 Fatal Push and I highly suggest anyone who picks up thos deck to include at least 2-4 Pushes/Plowshares in their mainboard with the remaining copies in the SB.

-How do you sideboard with so many synergy cards? It's not that difficult really, value is not the answer to every matchup. Against fair creature decks you want to get rid of your discsrd suite in favor of removal cards. Against combo decks you want to maximize interraction so you need to take out all of your dead cards and clunky cards. Removal spells tend to be dead against combo, Lingering Souls and Bombardment are too slow and clunky. Against control decks we tend to have a good matchup. I usually side out removal and some amount of discard/lands in favor of grindy cards and specific answers like wear//tear. Personally I am a fan of the Etutor package and SB Lilianas. Etutor doubles the availlability of our silver bullet hosers and can always grab disruption in the form of Sculler and Bombardment. The silver bullets that I highly value include:

Tormod's Crypt to complement 2 Surgicals for a total of 3 0-costed GY hate cards + etutor;
Ensnaring Bridge as a reactive card against Sneak n Show, Reanimator and Eldrazi decks for instance;
Seal of Cleansing to complement 2 Wear // Tear against Chalice, Leyline of the Void/Sanctity, RiP and Jitte/BSkull;
Arctic Moon and Blood Moon against the myriad of nonbasic lands that we have no answers for...

The other SB card I highly value is Liliana of the Veil. I currently play 3 copies because being a non-blue deck, most of our cards have a specific effect that can make them shine in some matchups or be irrelevent in another which makes them narrower (AKA not a cantrip/counterspell). This means that when we try to lay out a SB map we often have a lot of cards to take out and not enough to bring in. I found that Liliana fills that void the best. Against aggro decks she acts as a recurring edict. Against Combo she complements our discard suite with recurring discard and annoying sacrifice outlets. Against Control the recurring discard and impending ultimate slowly widdles them down. The fact that you can get some value and some sweet synergy from the symetrical discard is only the cherry on top.

-Why I don't like Entomb? I used to be all about Entomb when I played DRS and Young Pyro Bombardment and I know how good Entombkng Ghast, Therapy and Souls can be. Without DRS and Pyro however, entombing has lost most of it's charm. One of the underlying core foundations of Zombardment is it's fine balance lf graveyard abuse and independance. Every card in the original deck can be played against some form of GY hate. GY hate only disrupts the added value and synergy of our cards but doesn't prevent us from playing them. We can always play our zombies and our discard spells and continue to disrupt our opponent and build our board position all the while we look for that GY hate answer. It's its resillience to GY disruption coupled with its demand for GY disruption that makes it a mind-boggling deck to play against. Entomb and it's package (Bridge, Nel Toth) leaves us more vulnerable to GY hate and doesn't particularly generate much value outside of Bridge. Another reason why I don't like Entomb anymore is that it competes with better cards like removal spells.

-What about a Jund version? Unfortunately green really doesn't have anything to offer other than Abrupt Decay...

Other than that I don't think Nel Toth has a future in this deck. Sacrificing 2 creatures and being uncastable from your hand is too hefty of a cost when you could easily just plop down a 5/5 zombie on T2 with Supplier for 1 mana instead... My only concern with playing a heavy Gurmag list (2-3 copies) is that I won't be able to play Bobs anymore. Bob is so good in so many ways in this deck and easily outclasses Bitterblossom and Copter... Perhaps Supplier + Looting will prove to be enough velocity and the fact that Gurmag can crush Delver and Burn decks will push it over the edge?

So much to test... This deck is amazing!

[toothbrush]

Grixis Version

Picks up Careful Study, Prized Amalgam and drops Lingering Souls, Tidehollow Sculler and 2 lands.
Its very graveyard reliant and susceptible to hate. However, it sees a lot of cards and mounts pressure quickly. Gets tons of value too, uses every part of the Buffalo.

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
4 Badlands
3 Underground Sea
1 Swamp

2 Entomb
1 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
3 Goblin Bombardment

2 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
2 Scourge of Nel Toth

Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrade
2 Innocent Blood
2 Pithing Needle
3 Silent Gravestone
2 Liliana of the Veil

[Qweerios]

I goldfished a bunch of games with Supplier and Gurmag over Bob and Sculler and I am completely sold. Stitcher's is almost always getting played and sacrificed right away and nets an average of 1-2 cards. With Supplier and Looting, the deck has enough velocity and synergy to keep it rolling for days. With Gurmag the deck is also more zombie-dense and the huge fish solves most of our aggro troubles. T2 Gurmag after double Therapy is gold. I guess now I need a new sideboard...

Any thoughts on Engineered plague as a SB card? Great against Elves, Empty the Warrens and DnT (Humans). Not bad against fringe decks like Enchantress (Druid) or anything that tries to play 4 Nemesis. Am I missing anything? Is it good enough to bring in against Mentor?

[Manroe]

Did anything ever come about from the hidden stockpile lists?

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[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I goldfished a bunch of games with Supplier and Gurmag over Bob and Sculler and I am completely sold. Stitcher's is almost always getting played and sacrificed right away and nets an average of 1-2 cards. With Supplier and Looting, the deck has enough velocity and synergy to keep it rolling for days. With Gurmag the deck is also more zombie-dense and the huge fish solves most of our aggro troubles. T2 Gurmag after double Therapy is gold. I guess now I need a new sideboard...

Any thoughts on Engineered plague as a SB card? Great against Elves, Empty the Warrens and DnT (Humans). Not bad against fringe decks like Enchantress (Druid) or anything that tries to play 4 Nemesis. Am I missing anything? Is it good enough to bring in against Mentor?
Post your list

[maharis]

Has anyone tried out a jund version? I used to run it, mostly for deathrite. Decay is good in the board and possibly grisly salvage? Satyr wayfinder also seems ok though it would be nice if he was a zombie. Probably not necessary with stitcher’s supplier as he is just better. Lotleth troll seems fun pitching crawlers and ghasts but is probably terrible.

Also lets you run choke if you want. Or ground seal, which seems decent depending on hate. Ancient grudge also becomes an option.

On another note, I really like the card urborg justice in the side. Lets you answer fat or tnn with ease, very easy to turn on. Tragic slip is similar but generally decks with creatures you can’t kill via bombardment are susceptible to edicts.


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There is a green lingering souls, don't forget... Acorn Harvest. There are some interesting green zombies... Putrid Leech, Glissa the Traitor, Lotleth Troll, Shambling Shell... but they are higher on the curve. Of course, green gets you loam, venvegine, etc.


Wow lots of discussion going on! I'll try to answer a few points that were brought up. Here we go:

-How many Carrion Feeders? The primary function of feeder is to be a sacrifice outlet, the second is to be a CMC1 Zombie. The card itself is garbage but those 2 points provide high synergy with the rest of the deck. The best sacrifice outlet in this deck is by far Bombardment. We want no more than 3 copies of Bombardment because we basically never want to see multiple copies but we highly desire the effect. Once a Bombardment is in play, the effect of Feeder is irrelevant. Feeder's sacrifice effect, like Bombardment, doesn't stack so drawing multiple Feeders is not something we can take much advantage of other than splitting the distribution of counters. Feeder's zombie typing and low CMCi are great at enabling Crawler recursion. With supplier coming out, zombie typing and Therapy fodder will be more readily availlable and Feeder's inclusion will hinge more on it's ability than it's typing. For these reasons I believe we want to play as many Feeders as we play Bombardments. I currently play no more than 3 copies.

I agree, this card is very feast or famine.. but I still think building a big threat is good. With the right early draw you can jump on decks with a 5/5 by turn 3 while they aren't able to hold up removal for it.


-You need mainboard removal! I am not going to tell Sam Black how to play and I understand how nearly every list is modelled after his deck. However, removal plays a critical role in this deck and is often the only way out. First, we don't have the most efficient aggro plan, therefore efficient aggro decks will put a lot of pressure on us to assemble a strong engine or board position. Removal (and/or a fatty) is key when facing any Delver/Goyf, Eldrazi, or Burn/Sligh decks as it removes enough early pressure for us to get Souls to chump block and some degree of recursive beats. Second, there are a lot of decks that have access to mainboard hosers against our deck namely Ooze, Elesh Norn, and to some degree Revoker and Mirran Crusader. Any deck with GSZ (Elves, Maverick, Bant) will have mana acceleration into an Ooze. Ooze singlehandedly destroys this deck... It is way worst than DRS. If reanimator grabs Elesh Norn, we auto-lose. DnT has access to a lot of disruption that can prevent us from functioning. An active Mom and a Jitte or a simple Revoker on Bombardment is nearly insurmountable without removal. My last list contained 4 Fatal Push and I highly suggest anyone who picks up thos deck to include at least 2-4 Pushes/Plowshares in their mainboard with the remaining copies in the SB.

With so few go-wide decks, why not Innocent Blood? Carrion Feeder is the only issue... and that card will likely be trimmed to make room.


-Why I don't like Entomb? I used to be all about Entomb when I played DRS and Young Pyro Bombardment and I know how good Entombkng Ghast, Therapy and Souls can be. Without DRS and Pyro however, entombing has lost most of it's charm. One of the underlying core foundations of Zombardment is it's fine balance lf graveyard abuse and independance. Every card in the original deck can be played against some form of GY hate. GY hate only disrupts the added value and synergy of our cards but doesn't prevent us from playing them. We can always play our zombies and our discard spells and continue to disrupt our opponent and build our board position all the while we look for that GY hate answer. It's its resillience to GY disruption coupled with its demand for GY disruption that makes it a mind-boggling deck to play against. Entomb and it's package (Bridge, Nel Toth) leaves us more vulnerable to GY hate and doesn't particularly generate much value outside of Bridge. Another reason why I don't like Entomb anymore is that it competes with better cards like removal spells.

I really think Bridge from Below helps us win games we have no business winning... I almost always want it in the GY. The trick is having a replacement package post-board. That I think hasn't been solved.


Other than that I don't think Nel Toth has a future in this deck. Sacrificing 2 creatures and being uncastable from your hand is too hefty of a cost when you could easily just plop down a 5/5 zombie on T2 with Supplier for 1 mana instead... My only concern with playing a heavy Gurmag list (2-3 copies) is that I won't be able to play Bobs anymore. Bob is so good in so many ways in this deck and easily outclasses Bitterblossom and Copter... Perhaps Supplier + Looting will prove to be enough velocity and the fact that Gurmag can crush Delver and Burn decks will push it over the edge?

I feel like playing Gurmag Angler in this deck robs it of a lot of its "specialness" and there is a better looting/gurmag deck than this. That's not to say that you're wrong. The card is so dumb, I wish it didn't exist because it just sucks up all the air about what's special about black... but I digress.

[Qweerios]

Post your list

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Gurmag Angler

3 Fatal Push
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Alpine Moon
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Engineered Plague
1 Blood Moon
3 Liliana of the Veil


@Maharis

I preffer both Push and StP over Blood here. Instant speed is relevant and being able to target down any creature without fear of losing anything on your side is quite relevant. I play Push because it answers everything I care about aside Elesh Norn (fringe) and is on-color. Why I should care more about sac effects than targetted removal is the question here. Besides, with Lilianas in the SB I have plenty of high quality sac effects if need be.

Gurmag is amazing here and can easily be played on T2 via multiple avenues involving Supplier and/or Looting. A giant, cheap, and blocking zombie is a godsend. With plenty of decks unable to remove Gurmag or Enchantments, having Gurmag + Bombardment + Crawler means there is no stopping the machine gun.

I am curious about this better Gurmag/Looting deck. What is it?

[maharis]

I preffer both Push and StP over Blood here. Instant speed is relevant and being able to target down any creature without fear of losing anything on your side is quite relevant. I play Push because it answers everything I care about aside Elesh Norn (fringe) and is on-color. Why I should care more about sac effects than targetted removal is the question here. Besides, with Lilianas in the SB I have plenty of high quality sac effects if need be.

Gurmag is amazing here and can easily be played on T2 via multiple avenues involving Supplier and/or Looting. A giant, cheap, and blocking zombie is a godsend. With plenty of decks unable to remove Gurmag or Enchantments, having Gurmag + Bombardment + Crawler means there is no stopping the machine gun.

I am curious about this better Gurmag/Looting deck. What is it?

Fair enough. I just have an irrational fear of Nimble Mongoose I guess. Also hits opposing Gurmags/TNNs in a pinch.

I feel like some sort of value/midrange BR goodstuff deck that turbos out Gurmag Angler isn't... necessarily better, but a more cohesive gurmag deck. Something chock full of removal and disruption instead of synergies. So you're not in the situation where you delve away all your synergies for a 5/5 that eats an STP. But, it does have a relevant creature type and is a good backup plan. So I'll give it a shot.

[MD.Ghost]

I currently run the following:

4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Scourge of Nel Toth
4 Stitcher's Supplier

3 Bridge from Below
3 Goblin Bombardment

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize

3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp
1 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Marsh Flats

//SB:
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Hidden Stockpile
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Hide // Seek

My last winning streak ended today with 1:2 Br Reanimate but before i beat the following decks in a row:
2:1 Br Reanimate
2:0 Burn
2:0 Miracle
2:0 ANT
2:0 DnT
2:1 TinFins
2:0 UB Reanimate

According to: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/winners-and-losers-after-week-1-in-post-ban-legacy/ this deck is hot and yes my random test matchups shows a high "Reanimate" strategy that needs to be on the radar.

Overall Zombardment always was build to beat various combo decks and grind out slower control decks or blue based counter ideads. A shell with a low amount on removal and the "can't block" issue meant aggro decks are a harder matchups.

Stitcher's Supplier clearly is the new star (hey it can block too!) and with this card you want to profit more from the yard G1. Bridge from Below + Sac outlets is insane, but bridge alone will quickly generate value vs non-exile removal or in blocks&attacks cases. Getting T1 Stitcher into Therapy + Bridge is awesome too. Zombardment never was good with a lot of mainboard removal, space is tight and removal in most cases isnt needed or offers not enough value G1. You can grind out any deck based on small creatures (common in legacy) with bombardment.

To adress the "can't block" problem, the new version not only runs stitcher (blocking with DRS wasnt the right idea, for stitcher its okay to die), bridge enables a stream of 2/2 tokens (which is also save vs -1/-1 sweeper) and a 6/6 flying dragon deals also with a lot of bigger legacy stuff (gofy, angler, smasher etc.) if needed.

I will not vote for the big Zombie-Fish, he still isnt hot vs roadblocks like TNN (even Gofy) other Anglers etc. He cant be discarded, comes back etc. so its "only" a 5/5 that dodges some removal (bolt, push, decay) but i expect the new meta forms around exile based Removal (mainly swords) anyway. So in this case you want smaller creatures and/or stuff that comes back cause the backup plan always was Feeder+Bombardment in response of exile removal. Angler might be better in a list with maindeck removal (like Qweerios) because you also get more spells to feed him - it isnt true that angler is easily filled cause a lot of classic Zombardment cards have Flashback (therapy, loooting, souls = 12!) or comes back (Crawler, Ghast) and exile them for the big fish can quickly backfire.

Playset Carrion Feeder - i used 3 in the past as well but now with Bridges, overall more Zombies and possibly more Exile-based Removal a full playset is better. Carrion Feeder is a really good utility card and can also quickly end the game on its own. Running 4 copies also means it isnt a problem to lose him vs Removal, your own therapy or stitcher. Clearly a underrated dude but cc1 and 0 sac ability let him still shine.

Sideboard is under construction, i normally use Bitterblossom but Hidden Stockpile can also be strong and generates the token faster (if you need a blocker "now"). Hide // Seek is a fun card too, clearly underplayed but usefull in a lot of situations (even vs burn it means 6 life if you get fire blast which is huge). So a lot of cards will work depend on the (local) meta.

[Rebelwithapen216]

This deck looks really sweet with the addition of stitcher's supplier and the loss of deathrite from the format. I think the deck needs bridge from below to really capitalize on its sacrifice synergies and scourge looks like a cool addition too, but wouldn't some number of entomb really help out? You never want to draw scourge or bridge, and if you do the only card to get them from your hand to your graveyard is looting (unless you use a discard spell on yourself). I feel like having entomb as "additional copies" of these cards would help out a lot. The deck also only mills with stitcher's supplier, so it doesn't seem very consistent at actually getting those cards into the graveyard in its current form.

I also agree that bitterblossom seems purely like a sideboard card for this deck. It doesn't do anything exciting or particularly synergistic in the main board, but it can be good post-board in anticipation of gravehate.

[coff33bit]

I'm looking at re-sleeving this deck back up, I haven't played it for several years. I noticed several decks running 2 Diabolic Edict's in the sideboard. My question is why, when every land we have in the deck taps for black, are we not instead running Geth's Verdict? From my memory this deck grinds out and can have some pretty close games, it seems the extra life loss might be worth it.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'm looking at re-sleeving this deck back up, I haven't played it for several years. I noticed several decks running 2 Diabolic Edict's in the sideboard. My question is why, when every land we have in the deck taps for black, are we not instead running Geth's Verdict? From my memory this deck grinds out and can have some pretty close games, it seems the extra life loss might be worth it.
Blood moon?
I dunno, I run geths because I feel in love with it in modern.

[maCHOOga]

Once I saw Sam Black's list, plus ScavengingBooze with the 11th place + 5-0 I decided to sleeve this deck up. This is the most fun deck I've played in a while. Turn 2ing a Gurmag with a cabal therapy in the mix is awesome. Stitcher's supplier is the truth.




I also agree that bitterblossom seems purely like a sideboard card for this deck. It doesn't do anything exciting or particularly synergistic in the main board, but it can be good post-board in anticipation of gravehate.

I 100% agreed, it seems like I have been cutting it in 90% of the matches I've played.

A couple questions/comments to add to the discussion.
-Why enlightened tutor/entomb/etc? Can't this deck just play two maindeck diabolic intents over the bitterblossoms. It allows you to diversify your SB and the sacrifice a creature isn't really a drawback. It allows you to get any card to hand.
- Perish? I believe elves is on the downturn and it only hits 2/3rd of Temurs creatures (assuming you can get it to resolve). This card seems very narrow.

[Qweerios]

I played Zombardment for another weekly today and it went quite poorly this time... I played a 4 Feeder list with 2 Gurmags and 3 Pushes.

R1 0-2 Red Stompy
I get T1 Mooned and lose. G2 I mull to 6 for a 1 lander with Wear//Tear but I get beat down by 2 creatures for 5 turns never finding a 2nd Land

R2 0-2 Maverick
G1 I manage to get him to 1 life but I can't stop Marrit Lage. G2 is more of the same. T1 Mom into KotR/Thalia/Wasteland both games gave me headaches. I got severely mana short G2 as well.

R3 2-0 UB Landstill
Just an east matchup overall since he is playing mostly pushes and edicts... G2 I get my Souls and Crawlers extracted but 3 Ghasts and a Bombardment get there.

R4 2-0 Soldier Stompy
I Thoughtseizes away Suppression Field G1 and he folded to Bombardment. G2 is more of the same.

Props:

-Gurmag Angler did a lot of work.
-Wear // Tear costing 1 mana for enchantment removal and 2 mana for artifacts. Fuse is also amazing.
-Lingering Soul and Bombardment against Lifelink flyers.
-Deck is so much fun!

Slops:

-I saw multiple Feeders (2-3 copies) in about half of my matches and the multiple copies were complete garbage.
-I am too often digging for lands with Looting and it often doesn't deliver. I'd rather have more lands than not enough. I will definitely add a 12th fetch.
-Etutor sideboard was too clunky. I did ETutor for a Bombardment but I never felt like I wanted to modify the mainboard much throughout the matches.

[Qweerios]

Once I saw Sam Black's list, plus ScavengingBooze with the 11th place + 5-0 I decided to sleeve this deck up. This is the most fun deck I've played in a while. Turn 2ing a Gurmag with a cabal therapy in the mix is awesome. Stitcher's supplier is the truth.



I 100% agreed, it seems like I have been cutting it in 90% of the matches I've played.

A couple questions/comments to add to the discussion.
-Why enlightened tutor/entomb/etc? Can't this deck just play two maindeck diabolic intents over the bitterblossoms. It allows you to diversify your SB and the sacrifice a creature isn't really a drawback. It allows you to get any card to hand.
- Perish? I believe elves is on the downturn and it only hits 2/3rd of Temurs creatures (assuming you can get it to resolve). This card seems very narrow.

I can't really comment on Entomb or Blossom mainboard because I really believe the deck is famished for removal. Etutor however is a great way to double up on key hate cards. Cards like Tormod's Crypt and Seal of Cleansing as Surgical#3 and Wear#3 benefit from a 4th timely copy in the form of ETutor. Tutor is also a 4th Bombardment for the matchups that it hoses. The problems I've been running into with Tutor are when you get your silver bullet milled. Another problem is with the slow nature of ETutor. Paired with the high CMC of some silver bullets, the etutor package can sometimes be too slow, here are some examples:

-Tutor for Seal of Cleansing takes 2 turns and 3 mana to answer a Moon or Chalice
-Tutor for any 3Drop (Bridge, Plague, Moon) takes 4 mana and 2 turns and is too slow
-Tutor for Blossom is so bad against control decks and will take too many turns to generate too little and incur card
-Jitte is redundant with Bombardment and pretty mana intensive

Here are the cards that really shine with Etutor:

-Ethersworn Canonist
-Tidehollow Sculler
-Tormod's Crypt
-Pithing Needle
-Alpine Moon
-Goblin Bombardment

If your sideboard would benefit from a virtual copy of any of these cards I highly recommend ETutor.

Perish is seeing a resurgence because of the re-emergence of RUG Delver. It does not only wipe Elves but it wipes Mongoose + Goyf and will provide a strong enough answer against the KotR decks that become successful in a RUG meta.

On an unrelated note, I think the deck would greatly benefit from Decays mainboard. There are plenty of cards G1 that necessitate an answer (Chalice, Jitte, Ooze). Decay is the perfect mainboard removal for this deck and is easily splashed.

[Kaono]

I think I'd rather try Abrade before decay -- and then in that case I'd like to swap Wear/Tear with something like Serenity

[ricste88]

Hi Guys!

Ok I'm really happy that somebody started to test this amazing deck. I play Magic since 2001 plying all the formats, and this is one of the funniest deck in the history of magic, and has chances to place some really good results because it could be even competitive.

I don0t play online, I'm an "old school" player, and I prefer tournaments in rea life. it's more or less one and a half year that I'm testing this deck and that I'm bringing in in big event here in Italy (all the 100+ players tournament in my land),

I tested many versions and many card and this is the list that I'm actually playing:

Creature
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Cryptbreaker

Enchantment
1 Bridge from Below
3 Goblin Bombardment

Instant
3 Entomb
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Darkblast
2 Fatal Push
1 Lightning Bolt

Land
4 Badlands
3 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Swamp
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mutavault

Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Liliana of the Veil

Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls
3 Hymn to Tourach


Sideboard

1 Damping Sphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Null Rod
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Engineered Plague
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Wear // Tear
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Zealous Persecution

The problem of the new Stitcher's list is that is a list that can't substain a grindy game and that can simply concede to a turn 1 Chalice of The Void.
The list that I posted above is really good in grindy MU.
The first thing that you will notice is the totally absence of Carrion Feeder. I swapped them with 3 Cryptbreaker, this card is just insane. Cryptbreaker provides a discard outlet, a monstrous advantage in terms of field and resources (Take in accout that if you discard a bloodghast/Crawler/Lingering with it, you get a big big value from that play), and it provides card advantage in grindy games. It coul not be a dead draw as carrion feeder would be.
I dropped the "explosive factor" of the deck for a more grindy shell.

As Qweerios said: We need removal MD. That's why I choose to insert in the list Darkblast, 2 Fatal Push and 1 Lightning bolt:

- Darkblast is tutorable with Entomb and she can helps in MU like Death and taxes, Infect, Elves and Goblins
- Fatal Push: Is the best answer to Tarmogoyf and Delver that we can run, he can deals wih Kinght of The Reliquary and all the tribal decks in the format
- Lightning bolt: I run 1 bolt intead than 1 push because it's the most versatile removal ever (he can deals with delver and all the mos annoying x/3 creatures of the format), and too many time I lost my game with the opponent at 3 or < life. So this is a bonus slot that when topdecked can helps you to close a game that you would have lost with a Fatal push's topdeck.


Disruption:

Cabal Therapy doesn't need any explanation, but I prefer Hymn To Tourach Over Thoughtseize. Seize is good because you can let your opponent discard that the card that most is annoying you, but is not the play that you want to do on turn 1, rather is the worst one. Hymn To Tourach is one of the best card in the format, it doesn't suffer a cchalice on turn one and make advantage, yes, tourach is a 2x1, this is the lack of deck: advantage. And touracj is one of the best card that we have vs combo deck or versus Eldrazi and MUD deck.

Advantage is the reason that bring me to play more "grindy Card" as Kolaghan's command and the Lilianas, both Of the veil and Last hope.

Kolaghans command is a 1 of that can deals with little creatures, be a follow-up to our disruption plan, hel us to recoup a Cryptbreaker or a Gravecrawler, and THE answer to Chalice, Jitte and Batterskull in our Game 1.
Liliana of the Veil helps us in all the plans of the deck (she is good even vs combo) and is the removal that we need vs TNN or Big Creatures and mongoose.
Liliana, the last hope is Just MVP in Bad MU like Elves and she helps a lot vs Death and taxes and control decks and a good "mill" engine whne we need to dig the deck for a souls or a Bloodghast or whatever.

The rest of the deck does not need explanations. I prefer the Entomb package instead than the Stithcer strategy because I Prefer to tutor card. I'm a Survival/Maverick/Elves player so I ever played with tutors I can not simply a deck without any tutor, that's not magic for me. I need some 1x bullet that resolves the game or that helps you to build you strategy (tutorin a Loothing/Bloodghast/souls/therapy at the right moment just allow you to win the game), and you can even tutor for a win condition like Bridge From Below.

I run 20 lands because I have many Cc3 drops. The 20th land is a Mutavault, she helps you in grindy MU, "actives" all the Gravecrawlers in the GY, is the 12 creature of the deck.

BIg Exclusion

- Smuggler's Copter (it does not anything alone and I run a low number of creatures, is just too slow and does not resolves bad situation like other cards)
- Carrion feeder (I already explained the reason of the wap with Cryptbreaker)
- Grim Lavamancer (now wit the ban of shaman loose a lot of his use)
- Collective Brutality (too many dazes pierrce now, she risks to be a 2x1 for the opponent too often)
- Scourge Of Nel Toth (win more or totally useless when you are fa behind. It sucks vs Jace or Plowshares decks)
- Phyrexian Tower (Useless without Urborg Jutice)

- Purphoros, God Of The Forge (one of my favourites card for the deck,a good plan B vs rip/Leyline, but i have to admit that is too slow and when you cst it is a timewalk for your opponent)
- Urborg Justice (really powerful cards but it works only combined with other cards and this aspect just force me to drop this awesome card)
- Humility (now is too slow but it would still be awesome vs Eldrazi)
- Chains Of Mefistospheles ( I just don't have the money now to invest in it, but it will be one of my SB card once that I will decide to invest money in it, she avoid brainstorm that is our Best enemy ever. Expecially when both we and our opponents are at the topdeck)

Sideboard:

I love the Elightened tutor toolbox. Ensaring Bridge MV vs Show and tell, Canadian and Eldrazi/reanimate. Seal Of cleasing is a tutorabl slot vs artifact and ench.
Damping sphere is a really good card. I would like to play 2 of them, maybe cutting 1 ethersworn canonist, because is insane both vs Eldrazi/MUD and Combo decks.

1 Plague is a good slot to tutor vs tribal deck, Miracle (I put it in because of Monastery mentor and it pays, but I still prefer Humility in g2 and g3 vs miracle) and kills one of our worst enemy: TNN

3 surgical as a GY hate. I tested a lot with Tormod's (to avoid chancellor vs reanimate) and Nihil spellbomb, but still Surgical is the best card vs ANT and Lands. 1 Leyline because you got to be lucky in tournaments. 4 surgical are too much but Leyline is still the only card that allow you to win alone MU like Lands or dredge, so I prefer to have a chance to be lucky rather then the fourth redundant slot that you don't really need but that you want to have to be more covered vs GY strategies.

null rod for combo and equip and 2 zealous because are broken vs TNN, elves, Death and taxes, Empty the warrens and allow you to win a turn earlier vs fast deck in general.

What do you think about this list, do you think a "midrange" list could works better than "explosive lists" (I'm talking about tournaments of 8+ turns, not MTGO 5 games tournaments)

Hope to hear your feedbacks soon!

[MD.Ghost]

Qweerios is right about E-Tutor, it can be good but its still card disadvantage and getting your 1off answer countered or discarded (even more now with Playset Stitcher!) is very bad. Overall besides graveyard "draws" this deck is a non-cantrip deck so even with 1 Tutor and strong 1off cards its super random to grap the right card. I feel it will quickly back fire on the long run in a deck that already hope for right topdecks.

I am still not sold on the "this deck needs removal maindeck" idea floating around. Sam Black played a 1off Tragic Slip and did well over many large tournaments. Later it was fine to run 2-3 Decays but 4c Mana without Deathrite is super risky even with 10+ fetches. Without a format full of Deathrite you don't need to fear many creatures, cause the new versions (Fish or Dragon) we discuss here are able to block better or ignore bigger dudes or can fight them well enough. Most removal spells are still bad vs Combo or Control Decks and if you only run a few you risk to get them put into your Yard with stitcher's ability.

For me its better to run a good removal suite at side, with bombardment you dominate a lot of creature combats anyway (heck i even shot down a griselbrand after show&tell with a bunch of dead flesh).

Kaono is right about Abrade, its a very good card in a lot of matchups if you need both modes. Delver Decks often run Artifacts like Cage, so be able to kill a Delver or Cage depending on the situation is good. Sadly most decks currently fear graveyard matchups so i am unsure about how many Leylines floating around and answer it with W (Wear//Tear) is really good to. If it comes down to Artifact+Extraction hate, Abrade is clearly a very solid choice to keep in mind.

@ricste88 i find your list super grindy and while the deck can grind good for me it seems better to get a quick and clean Game 1 victory with more action (means more graveyard dependency etc.). Winning the first game and have 1-2 games to answer the hate of your opponent is always a better situation, so i prefere to run a more classic Zombardment list with the new cards like the inventor Sam Black already mentioned.

-------------

For me it comes down to:

20 Lands (10+ fetches, 1 Undiscovered Paradise)

3-4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Stitcher's Supplier

3 Goblin Bombardment

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
3-4 Thoughtseize

which leaves 5-7 flex cards for various ideas:
Entomb, Bridges, Beaters like Scourge or Fish, Removal, Flex cards like Collective Brutality, Planeswalkers etc. so the "Zombardment 2.0" shell is still adjustable

I really like Bridges but currently test +1 Scourge (3 total) and 2 Collective Brutality (never a dead card) main. At my test matches the dragon is very usefull, 6/6 flying that ignores TNN etc. i even trump a reanimate Chancellor of the Annex with it.

For Sideboard this deck has so many options but if you run diabolic edict i would consider Blessed Alliance too - it can be better in a lot of cases.

[ReAnimator]

I've run Cryptbreaker before in legacy, it is for sure at a legacy power level, it does a lot of things, and should be explored for sure like ricste88 says, whether in the grindy or explosive lists. It has a ton of synergies here and all of them are things this deck is in the market for.

[maCHOOga]

Played the deck to a 3-0 finish last night on the community legacy league on MTGO.
4 bloodghast
4 gravecrawler
4 stitcher's supplier
3 carrion feeder
2 gurmag angler
~*~*~*~
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
3 Goblin Zombardment
*~*~*~*
11 Black Fetchlands
3 Badlands
3 Swamp
2 Scrublands
2 Undiscovered Paradise

*~* Sideboard *~*
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Wear / Tear
2 Sudden Demise
2 Pithing Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Bitterblossom

Matches were:
Round 1: 2-1 Loam Pox. Fatal pushing a Mishra's factory was the play to allow me to get ahead on board.
Round 2: 2-1 Goblins. Sudden Demise allowed for a 4 for 1. That card is GREAT.
Round 3: 2-0 Eldrazi. 2nd game I grew two carrion feeders into 4/4s to close out the game.

Notes:
-I really wanted fatal push because there are cards that just brick wall us: tarmogoyf, KoTR, TKS,etc and cards that are kill on sight: Mom, Lackey, Infecters. I like the versatility of collective brutality but I wanted instant speed interaction.
-Going forward I think 3x scrublands is the magic number. The game I lost to goblins involved blind flipping both scrublands off of a stitcher. Per the norm, I proceeded to draw two copies of lingering souls.
-I played a game against loam pox with 1 swamp in play and tabernacle on the other side. Bloodghast FTW!
-Goblins is a terrifying match. I went from 18 to 5 life out of no where. Then sudden demised their team and won the attrition war.
- Eldrazi was weird, they turn two TKS, saw two Wear/Tear and chaliced on X=2. It was the correct play at the time, but thankfully they never drew a 2nd chalice and I was able to utilize 1 drops to end the game.
- There's an important interaction I ran into. My one opponent played a relic of progenitus. I played a stitcher, milled over three and one of which was a gravecrawler. My next action was to swamp into gravecrawler. You opponent doesn't have an opportunity to respond, as gravecrawler is already on the stack when priority gets passed to them.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I played a stitcher, milled over three and one of which was a gravecrawler. My next action was to swamp into gravecrawler. You opponent doesn't have an opportunity to respond, as gravecrawler is already on the stack when priority gets passed to them.

This is true. By default (and it's actually enforced in MTGO online, as opposed to real life where people cheat this rule and try to cut you off before you act) active player gets priority after the resolution of any ability.
Offer not valid for multiple gravecrawlers.

[Kaono]

This is what I've been playing and really enjoying:

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Cryptbreaker
2 Scourge of Nel Toth

3 Goblin Bombardment
1 Bridge from Below

2 Entomb
1 Darkblast
1 Abrade

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize

4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Undiscovered Paradise

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Bitterblossom
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Wear // Tear
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Breakdown and thoughts:

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting

These seem core and I haven't touched the numbers at all. Interestingly Faithless Looting has seemed the "worst" of all of these mainly because it's so expensive to flashback so if it's not in my hand I rarely have time to play it.

4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Goblin Bombardment

On the other end, I pretty much only cast Souls from the GY so love that it gives me something powerful to do on 3 mana (cast a 1-drop, fb souls). 3 Bombardment seems right and lines up with basically wanting to see 1 per game. 2 is too risky to just mill them both. I like Thoughtseize over Hymn still for Therapy reasons and to stay low to the ground. Hymn on the draw feels so bad.

2 Scourge of Nel Toth
3 Cryptbreaker

Scourge was a 3-of, then a 1-of and I think I'm happy with 2. I disagree it's win-more since there are so many ways to cast it. T1 supplier mill ghast, T2 land cast Scourge is crazy strong. Scourge also synergizes with Cryptbreaker as another discard outlet and throwaway creature maker. I think decks playing Scourge should play Cryptbreaker and decks with Angler should play Carrion Feeder.

I tested A LOT with Carrion Feeder and was almost always underwhelmed. Especially since Fatal Push was printed it's not like the old days where you get it out of bolt range and it takes over. Also Cryptbreaker is so much better post sb games vs gy hate compared to Feeder.

2 Entomb
1 Bridge from Below
1 Darkblast
1 Abrade

Just some randoms to fill the gaps. Entomb might be too cute but until the deck is streamlined I enjoy the versatility. Bridge is just good as a random I-win card. Darkblast is great again! Abrade as maindeck out to Chalice and some more spot removal.

The sideboard is still a mess, I have poor justifications for most of it but don't stand behind it at all.

[Qweerios]

Ok lots of discussion going on and some good reports to boot! Here are a few thoughts, testing results, and theories to share.

First, Thoughtseize is our best T1 play. I used to play 3 when I had 4 Bobs but it quickly became evident that T1 Badlands into TS is the best opening sequence for this deck. TS is our probe and our single best t1 combo interaction. This line of play sets us up perfectly for an explosive T2 be it a Therapy/Looting/Supplier follow-up or simply another TS. I currently see no good reason not to play 4 copies.

Second, Sam Black was realistically the first person to play this deck competitively, and during a completely different time period. He benefitted greatly from the rogue factor. There weren't nearly as many potent and different Chalice decks as today and DnT was nowhere near as threatening. Playing without removal given those circumstances is much for feasible. Here are a few cards in random order that can completely invalidate our deck either immediately or given a couple of turns:

-Elesh Norn, no further development until this card gets off the field
-Scavenging Ooze, gets easily out of Bombardment range and acts as a hard shut down and stabilizer. Highly accessible throuh GSZ
-Goblin Lackey is back! Our creatures can't block so he can take over.
-Any Infect creature that we can't block can quickly take us out outright.
-Delver of Secrets, first and/or second fast copies backed by disruption can easily outpace our entire development.
-Mother of Runes and Thalia, backed by Port/Waste can easily prevent us from playing any cards altogether especially if we are on the draw. First Strike is a wall and these decks generally have access to a threatening equipment package.
-Phyrexian Revoker on Goblin Bombardment takes away most of our steam against aggro decks.
-Knight of the Reliquary, especially on T2 will wall our early beats and the flow of Wastelands/Marrit Lage it will bring is enough to bring our entire deck development to a halt. Also, the card is huge...
-Tarmogoyf and the Eldrazis, as vanilla as they can be they can still outclock our deck of we don't have Souls to chump or some serious machine-gun action going. Gurmag Angler is a huge boon in that department.
-Chalice of the Void is probably our biggest and most common offender and simply shuts down nearly every card in our deck. Without FoW, Daze and Pierce, CotV is a serious consideration. Praying for 1 of 3 Wear G2-3 with the looming threat of a T1 Moon/Chalice/Magus makes red stompy matchups very unfavorable without interaction G1.
-Trinisphere needs to be answere if we want to abuse any sort of synergyy.
-Any Jitte or Batterskull that slipped past discard is now a serious threat.

These are just a few cards that have completely blown me out during testing. I think we need a strong plan against the decks packing these cards and versatile removal.

Third, I have tested 4 Decays with 2 Bayous and unfortunately the 4th color is too much of a stretch. However, Kaono's suggestion of Abrade might be spot on. Abrade mainboard answers many of the threats noted above. The biggest one IMO is the fact that it answers Chalice through Moon and kills nearly every relevant threat for 2 mana. 3 damage is enough to take down a Gurmag/Goyf/Eldrazi that blocked one of our recursive beaters. It can always be thrown at Vials, Moxes and Equipments when necessary as well. I believe 2-3 copies mainboard, given how popular Chalice decks are in your meta, is a good starting point.

Fourth, I slowly realized how black creatures you want to aim removal at are getting pretty scarce. I preffer Snuff Out to Push in many situations. The fact that you can remove nearly any creature in the format for 0 mana is not to be underestimated. Snuff out will take down Elesh Norn, pass through Chalice, kill any non-gurmag fatty, easily slip past Thalia, and get rid of pesky T1 plays without incurring a tempo loss! The obvious downside is the hefty cost in life so you might want to keep your copies to miser 1-2 ofs. I am definitely going to try a 2/2 Abrade/Snuff split!

@Mach00ga,

I play an almost identical list aside from the manabase (3rd Scrub > 3rd Swamp and 12th fetch > 2nd Paradise). I recently cut the 4th Feeder for the 21st Land and I was pondering on a 2nd Paradise. I finally opted against because I find it extremely clunky and I get as much, if not more value out of a fetch instead. Basically I really dislike Paradise in my first 3 lands so I couldn't justify running 2 copies. How were the two copies for you?

About some of your SB choices, I play 2 StP and 2-3 Liliana over your 2 Edicts and 2 Bridges. What is Edict for? Do you use Bridge much outside of Sneak and Eldrazi? I usually find that I get much more value off the back of Liliana. When I packed Bridges I found them pretty narrow whereas Liliana I can bring in so many matchups. I've also tested Plague Mare, Marsh Casualties and Zealous Persecution and figured that ZP was the better card. Where is Sudden Demise better than ZP? I know ZP is great against active Mom boards and against TNN but I am sure there are some 2-3 damage Sudden Demises that can turn the tables. Also, why is everyone packing 2 Needles? What are they for?

My last question is mostly for everyone playing Sculler in their SB. Why Sculler over Duress? I find that Sculler is only good against combo really and the faster interaction takes the cake here.

Cheers!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Leyline of Lifeforce. Don't leave home without it, chalice haters.

[MD.Ghost]

Ok lots of discussion going on and some good reports to boot! Here are a few thoughts, testing results, and theories to share.

First, Thoughtseize is our best T1 play. I used to play 3 when I had 4 Bobs but it quickly became evident that T1 Badlands into TS is the best opening sequence for this deck. TS is our probe and our single best t1 combo interaction. This line of play sets us up perfectly for an explosive T2 be it a Therapy/Looting/Supplier follow-up or simply another TS. I currently see no good reason not to play 4 copies.

Agree - TS is the best start vs unknown opponents - i like to play the playset again.

Second, Sam Black was realistically the first person to play this deck competitively, and during a completely different time period. He benefitted greatly from the rogue factor. There weren't nearly as many potent and different Chalice decks as today and DnT was nowhere near as threatening. Playing without removal given those circumstances is much for feasible. Here are a few cards in random order that can completely invalidate our deck either immediately or given a couple of turns:

For reference it helps to read his comments from 2012 (http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/23834_Zombies-In-Legacy.html) - yes some stuff changed and the meta is different (heck currently we dont knew how the meta after DRS is - all up in the air now.) but some points are still true 2018. Speaking about two core cards we discussed here:

Sam Black about Carrion Feeder: Carrion Feeder is the perfect creature for this deck. It comes down on the first turn and functions as this deck's Knight of the Reliquary and Mother of Runes while being a Zombie to allow you to return Gravecrawler. What I mean by comparing it to those creatures is that it protects your other creatures which are normally only vulnerable to cards like Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile by allowing you to put them in the graveyard instead of removing them from the game, and it quickly becomes the biggest creature in play if you have any number of Bloodghasts or Gravecrawlers. It also lets you "fog" Umezawa's Jitte or Batterskull by blocking with a Spirit token from Lingering Souls and sacrificing it to the Carrion Feeder.

In no way is Cryptbreaker a better card if you really want to master this deck - which is one of the hardest you can play in legacy with all the triggers and interactions (elf players will know what i mean), its not about cantrip-card-selection and the playing the best powerfull card at the right time, its about putting all the little things together and the reason why this deck can cause many headaches during a long tournament and most players will clearly stay away from that task or will not put up a great result. For me the important point for Carrion Feeder is, that it offers Removal (exile!) protection and can quickly become a huge clock that ends the game way faster than other cards can with minimal ressources like 1 crawler + mana or ghasts + lands. Yes he can't block and is alone a useless cards, but in a lot of situation Feeder is great and is to not only count on bombardment as a sac engine. In a Zombie shell i would play min. 3 but currently like the full playset in a DRS free Meta game and with a faster playstyle (you want to sac Stitcher often too).


-Elesh Norn, no further development until this card gets off the field
with the new shells i only lost to one Elesh Norn on the field, besides discard all combo pieces, you want some cards vs a big game ender like this (removal, liliana even a before casted Scourge will help)
-Scavenging Ooze, gets easily out of Bombardment range and acts as a hard shut down and stabilizer. Highly accessible throuh GSZ
Yes Ooze need to be answered fast, but currently Maverick dont dominate like in the past (2012 Ooze was already a card!) and you can answer it with needle too.
-Goblin Lackey is back! Our creatures can't block so he can take over.
Goblins might be better now but still needs to put up more results and i dont see this deck as a meta contender now. T1 Lackey can also blocked from T1 Stitcher (which is a tempo gain for us) and bombardment is a very strong card vs Goblins. Having access to T1 Removal G2 will help, i prefere to find space for a single Darkblast at Side, since Stitcher also enable it faster now.
-Any Infect creature that we can't block can quickly take us out outright.
Infect Kill you with Pumpspells, a single creature will not make it without +X pumps and with 10+ discards spells you have a timeframe. Bombardment is a killer too, Stitcher as a T1 Blocker backuped with some more removal from side is solid. Yes you will lose vs a T2 kill with counterback up but in this case it doesnt matter if the counter your discard, blocker or removal.
-Delver of Secrets, first and/or second fast copies backed by disruption can easily outpace our entire development.
Delver Decks aren't a big problem for this deck, now with a faster game plan and the inclusion of big dudes like Scourge or Angler is a clearly improvment and without DRS Delver Decks are nacked vs Grave interaction G1.
-Mother of Runes and Thalia, backed by Port/Waste can easily prevent us from playing any cards altogether especially if we are on the draw. First Strike is a wall and these decks generally have access to a threatening equipment package.
-Phyrexian Revoker on Goblin Bombardment takes away most of our steam against aggro decks.
-Knight of the Reliquary, especially on T2 will wall our early beats and the flow of Wastelands/Marrit Lage it will bring is enough to bring our entire deck development to a halt. Also, the card is huge...
-Tarmogoyf and the Eldrazis, as vanilla as they can be they can still outclock our deck of we don't have Souls to chump or some serious machine-gun action going. Gurmag Angler is a huge boon in that department.
Since i test the new Versions after DRS ban i never faced Eldrazi with this Deck but since i own Eldrazi Decks too i have some experience here. A Chalice + TKS start can be gg with the wrong hand. Praying on finding the right 1-2 Spells (older version run 2-3 Decays etc.) isnt the best solution. But it still depends on the cards, if you starts before Chalice you have the chance to get rid of it with TS or get some value into your yard, ghast/souls shines here. Brutality is a good cc2 discard outlet too and if you managed to get Scourge/Angler online you can fight back the bigger dudes. I dont see the solution of cc1 Removal vs a Chalice Deck. If Eldrazi is common again, Abrade might be a good mainboard card.
-Chalice of the Void is probably our biggest and most common offender and simply shuts down nearly every card in our deck. Without FoW, Daze and Pierce, CotV is a serious consideration. Praying for 1 of 3 Wear G2-3 with the looming threat of a T1 Moon/Chalice/Magus makes red stompy matchups very unfavorable without interaction G1.
-Trinisphere needs to be answere if we want to abuse any sort of synergy
See above - it depends on your spells, this deck can navigate around Chalice/Sphere in some cases - overall i dont see the point (since we cant run Decay aka 4color anymore) to play artifact removal, if the meta forms around chalice decks (i dont believe it) it isnt the right field to play Zombardment.
-Any Jitte or Batterskull that slipped past discard is now a serious threat.
Feeder+Bombardment if the Equipment hits the field, so 7 outs at main and many more if you count discard too. Equipment itself isnt the problem. But yes every creature deck will have a hard time to face something like TNN + Jitte but its cause of the combination and still needs a bunch of setup.

These are just a few cards that have completely blown me out during testing. I think we need a strong plan against the decks packing these cards and versatile removal.

Third, I have tested 4 Decays with 2 Bayous and unfortunately the 4th color is too much of a stretch. However, Kaono's suggestion of Abrade might be spot on. Abrade mainboard answers many of the threats noted above. The biggest one IMO is the fact that it answers Chalice through Moon and kills nearly every relevant threat for 2 mana. 3 damage is enough to take down a Gurmag/Goyf/Eldrazi that blocked one of our recursive beaters. It can always be thrown at Vials, Moxes and Equipments when necessary as well. I believe 2-3 copies mainboard, given how popular Chalice decks are in your meta, is a good starting point.
See my point about Abrade above - yes it can be good but if the meta will push you to hard than dont play this deck. Overall running removal at side that is able to catch some big and/or dudes with protection (tnn, progenitus, emrakul) is good. Edict, Liliana, Blessed Alliance etc will help.

Fourth, I slowly realized how black creatures you want to aim removal at are getting pretty scarce. I preffer Snuff Out to Push in many situations. The fact that you can remove nearly any creature in the format for 0 mana is not to be underestimated. Snuff out will take down Elesh Norn, pass through Chalice, kill any non-gurmag fatty, easily slip past Thalia, and get rid of pesky T1 plays without incurring a tempo loss! The obvious downside is the hefty cost in life so you might want to keep your copies to miser 1-2 ofs. I am definitely going to try a 2/2 Abrade/Snuff split!

@Mach00ga,

I play an almost identical list aside from the manabase (3rd Scrub > 3rd Swamp and 12th fetch > 2nd Paradise). I recently cut the 4th Feeder for the 21st Land and I was pondering on a 2nd Paradise. I finally opted against because I find it extremely clunky and I get as much, if not more value out of a fetch instead. Basically I really dislike Paradise in my first 3 lands so I couldn't justify running 2 copies. How were the two copies for you?

About some of your SB choices, I play 2 StP and 2-3 Liliana over your 2 Edicts and 2 Bridges. What is Edict for? (Instant Answer and its faster than Liliana too) Do you use Bridge much outside of Sneak and Eldrazi? I usually find that I get much more value off the back of Liliana. When I packed Bridges I found them pretty narrow whereas Liliana I can bring in so many matchups (with only a few slots, liliana is the more flexible choice, agree). I've also tested Plague Mare, Marsh Casualties and Zealous Persecution and figured that ZP was the better card. Where is Sudden Demise better than ZP? I know ZP is great against active Mom boards and against TNN but I am sure there are some 2-3 damage Sudden Demises that can turn the tables. Also, why is everyone packing 2 Needles? What are they for? (Neeedle is very flexible can answer nearly every problematic DnT card, shuts down DDepths decks, answers Sneak Attack, is usefull vs a lot of creatures like Ooze, Mother, Sharpshooter, Vial, Jitte, Explosives, Planeswalkers etc. the list is long so its never deck and super fast with cc1 + colorless, its an in and out solution for me

My last question is mostly for everyone playing Sculler in their SB. Why Sculler over Duress? I find that Sculler is only good against combo really and the faster interaction takes the cake here.

I swap Sculler with a creature since it not only removes a spell, it will beat after it and vs combo you not only need disruption you need a fast clock too. It gives also an interaction with Feeder+Bombardment (exile a card) and moves away from to many cc1 solutions just in case and its a zombie to get Crawler back. I run 2 at side now.

Cheers!

[Qweerios]

@MD.Ghost

Thanks for the detailled response. Lots of things to digest here.

Concerning Feeder and Breaker, I wouldn't be so quick to judge as both cards have merrit. They are arguably some of the looser inclusions to the core (as evident by our recent discussions). The slot it occupies is that of a 1 mana zombie that doesn't completely suck. Note that Breaker did not exist when Sam Black piloted the deck. They are both CMC 1 zombies so they fit the bill for Crawler but one is a sac outlet (synergy abuser) and the other is a discard outlet that generates CA (synergy abuser/enabler). While it is true that Feeder protects, say, a Bloodghast from a Plow, it merely redirects it to the Feeder which is likely to be the recipient of the Plow in the first place given that we spend of all of our spare mana in growing him, making Feeder the logical choice regardless of his sidekick. This "protect" effect is more relevant against Terminus than single-target removal. With Supplier as part of the core, having additional cheap sac outlets provide velocity, but not always at high value I might argue (Sac an early Supplier to Feeder and whiff). As a sac outlet, Feeder is outclassed by both Bombardment and Therapy. As a fatty, Gurmag is far more threatening given its immediate size, blocking abilities, and evasive CMC. Another important aspect of Feeder is that multiple copies are highly undesirable.

Now, lets look at Breaker shall we? Breaker is a discard outlet, it requires mana and generate CA. While Feeder is a poor rendering of Bombardment, Breaker is a pretty decent rendering of Faithless Looting (a sort of big loot). Both are undesirable in multiples. Breaker is definitely more defensive and lends itself to a grindier game by turning GY dependant cards from your hand into 2/2 zombies. Breaker provides a stream of blockers and can block itself which can be relevant against Lackey and Glistener Elf. Breaker's draw ability is the cherry on top and is not why I would personally play the card but can become a major effect when sacrificing and replaying Crawlers post-attack step. Personally, I find Feeder to be one of the weaker parts of the deck now that we have access to a critical mass of zombies in the form of Supplier and Angler. I might as well play a 4th Bombardment over the 3rd-4th Feeder now that Feeder's typing matters less than its effect. Looting #5-6 and another lategame grinder in the form of a T1 Breaker is looking more appealing than ever.

Now, looking at your comments on the creatures I highlighted necessitate removal, most of your answers come from your sideboard. The cards I mentionned are all part of some archetypes' main strategy and tend to stop our deck dead in its tracks. You can't just throw away a large portion of your G1 win percentage because you want more synergy over 3-4 cards that can clearly solve these problem cards you are likely to encounter in all of your pre/post-side games. For instance, Chalice@1 is a major problem for this deck and having something like 2 Abrade mainboard will skyrocket your win percentage for G1-3 when coupled with 3 Wear. Throwing away G1 completely to the die roll and a prayer that your opponent doesn't Chalice won't make it a favorable matchup G2-3 because you included 3 Wear. It is simply not enough... Take Infect for example, the pump spells don't kill you like you mentionned, the creatures with Infect are killing you. You kill the creatures, the pump is stranded while discarding the pump doesn't prevent the beats. A removal spell at a low cost in this matchup (Push or Snuff) goes a long way in making sure you get a good shot at G1 and a darn good one at G2. This idea of changing decks when Chalice is common, Lackey and Infect creatures are contenders, and Elesh Norn is a prime reanimation target is not one that I wish to entertain if my goal is to make the best Zombardment deck I possibly can. No amount of potential big Feeders, Gurmags, and flying tokens will trump an active mom protecting the right hatebear, an exploded goblin board sharpshooting your face, an unblockable infecter, a TNN with an equipment, a brutal Delver opener, or a fast Ooze/Elesh/Chalice... Adequate removal spells can!

About Needle... My main issue with Needle is that it is often a great solution to a non-existent problem. Yes it stops Sneak Attack but sometimes they just go Show n Tell. Yes you can stop Thespian Stage from Turbo Depths but they draw a Hexmage. Miracles can't Jace you but they chose to ride the Mentor or some other PW instead. Ooze can't be activated anymore but it's already at 4/4 and that 7/7 KotR is still free to rotate into a Bog. These are all common scenarios that I think require more general pieces of interaction before Needle is considered. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Needle is bad by any means, rather I would play a solid core of widely applicable cards before loading up on Needles.

So I've been obsessing over Zombardment for the past weeks and I have come up with a tight list and a pretty complete SB map that addresses 20 common matchups. Here's where I am at:

2 Carrion Feeder / Cryptbreaker
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Gurmag Angler

2 Snuff Out
2 Abrade
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Liliana of the Veil

[Qweerios]

I piloted the list I posted above (Feeder > Breaker) in a monthly Legacy event to a top4 finish. I also did a bunch of fun games on the side and overall got to jam a lot of zombies in play. It was great! Here's a brief report:

R1: UW RiP/Helm Combo-Control, 2-1 (oh the horror!)
G1 I TS my opponent is on the play but he knows what I am on so he Forces my T1 TS and jams a T2 RiP followed by Energy Field... I concede.
G2 my opponent keeps a questionable opener with a Leyline of sanctity and gets punished for it.
G3 is a long match that involves some back and forth removal and a grand total of 3 RiP. I have 3 Wear for all of them but a hardcast Leyline of Sanctity prevents me from going over the top. In the end, Liliana did a lot of work by getting rid of an Energy Field and managed to tick up to 9 (can't ultimate with leyline). She even ate some Bombardment pings when I was presented with a Terminus to put my creatures in the GY and rebuild a board. I was happy to have all 3 Wears for that game as this matchup is truly atrocious.

R2: DnT, 2-1
G1 Abrade gets a Jitte and Bombardment + Ghast and Crawler takes it home
G2 I get beat down by a T4 Mirran Crusader equipped with a SoFaI (ouch!). I try to race him but I can't find a Wear, Abrade, Souls to chump, or Bombardment to seal the deal with Angler, 2 Ghasts and 2 Crawlers. I die in 3 swings after mitigating one attack with a ZP.
G3 I have Push and Abrade ready and manage to take it home with Angler, Crawler, and Bombardment.

R3: Goblins, 2-0
G1 I have 2 Suppliers to chump Lackey and Flashback 3 Souls and 2 Ghasts for the beats while he play Matron and realizes he has no Sharpshooter or Chainwhirler mainboard. Lucky me.
G2 I get my GY nuked by Relic and my Souls get Extracted but Supplier grants me a new GY and Bombardment with 1 Crawler takes his board down.

R4: ID

Top4

Goblins 0-2
G1 I kept a 1 lander with Snuff Out and Looting but I only find a 2nd Land by T4 and can't catch up.
G2 I have a Snuff Out + TS + Therapy opener with Ghast and Bombardment to follow up but I make a critical missplay that allowed him to topdeck back into the game. T1 TS sees 2 Lackeys, Vial, Ringleader, and Lands. I figure I should discard lackey #2, Snuff his Lackey in play, let him Vial, and discard his entire hand. The right line of play was to do exactly that but to Therapy myself on T2 to get 2 Ghasts in the yard, play my fetch for the Ghasts return and Flashback Therapy to take away the Ringleader. Instead I therapy the Ringleader and left the 2 Ghasts in my hand. My opponent then proceeds to topdeck Matron for Krenko and Warchief while I cast Bombardment and die while I try to cast the Ghasts that I should have brought into play for free and would have gunned his goblins down in time.

After the tournament I played some games for fun against a Chalice Tez Combo deck and Bant. Abrade was the MvP in all of these games.

Props:
-Abrade did some heavy lifting. I was really happy to have 5 artifact removal spells against DnT and it really didn't feel like too many at all.
-Snuff Out allowed some really nutty openers where I got to discard my opponent's entire hand or splurge out on the board while also dealing with their early plays. It definitely granted me some massive tempo gains and allowed me to dictate the pace despite all the life loss. To think that I almost replaced them with StP as a last minute tweak...
-Drew nearly no Feeders throughout the entire tournament and I really didn't miss him.
-Lingering Souls doing most of the blocking and reaching

Slops:
-Game losing missplay
-Land shortages

Going forward I think I want to include a 4th Badlands over the 12th Fetch. Having only 3 red sources leaves me susceptible to Supplier milling 1-2 Badlands and being Wasted off red altogether. Other than that I believe the weakest link in the deck is Carrion Feeder.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

In the end, Liliana did a lot of work by getting rid of an Energy Field and managed to tick up to 9 (can't ultimate with leyline). She even ate some Bombardment pings when I was presented with a Terminus to put my creatures in the GY and rebuild a board.
Good report, but a little rules tip for future pilots: You declare targets before you pay costs, which means you can target the creature you plan to sacrifice. This would get the creature in the graveyard and prevent you from having to ping your own Lilli.

[MD.Ghost]

Going forward I think I want to include a 4th Badlands over the 12th Fetch. Having only 3 red sources leaves me susceptible to Supplier milling 1-2 Badlands and being Wasted off red altogether. Other than that I believe the weakest link in the deck is Carrion Feeder.

Thx for your short report! I still feel Carrion Feeder is underrated here but maybe he is a weaker card in the Angler-Shell or vs local meta decks. Two also are to few to really matter in a lot of situation so you simply might a) not draw him b) draw him in the wrong case or c) get him discarded/countered anyway.


Yeah 4th Badland might be a good call, i currently have 3/3/3 which works fine too (10 fetches + 1 UP) but maybe go to 4th Badlands again. Had an RUG opponent that tried to waste me out of red mana, which didnt work but let me think about the situation. Overall it will always be a small percentage you find yourself into a spot for a better land suit aka having ghast engine and need a fetchland over basic/dual, or need a swamp if you face moon or loam-wastelands, or need a 4th dual in terms of a offcolor spell etc = minor adjustments.

I currently try the following build:

4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
3 Scourge of Nel Toth
4 Stitcher's Supplier

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Goblin Bombardment

3 Badlands
3 Swamp
3 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats

//Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Darkblast
2 Abrade



Quite happy with it so far. Mainboard for me seems one of the versions that work well (other versions involve Zombie Fish, or Bridge/Entomb etc.) running 3 big Dragons in the new Stitcher shell is super aggressiv but it will not matter if your stitcher/looting put some fatty into yard, gets countered etc. - Bonus Points: Containment Priest will not stop the Dragon since its a "cast" effect and it gives the Deck a big finisher if you face Extraction vs Ghast/Crawler Engine. A lot of Decks simply cant beat a 6/6 Flyer! I currently try Collective Brutality - Bridge from Below was bonkers too vs some Decks and allowed quick combo wins with Feeder/Bombardment. Brutality itself is a card that is never dead (a point i really like) is on color and the discard option can't be stopped, it doesnt matter if your opponent will counter it, if you can still profit from "escalate" option.

Sideboard is still in constant change but i also added Abrade for a flexible solution vs Artifact+Creature decks. I like multipe solutions since it offers a flexible game play, less dead cards and overall save card space at main/side. Two highlights are Fleshbag Marauder and EExplosives. Explosives can do so many things, its not only a possible board wipe vs tokens (like ZPersecution) it will also allow to get rid of multiple permanents which really shines at crowded fields. Killing Cage+Delver/Nimble or Thalia+RiP etc. is very nice and speaking about Thalia: You can trick with sunburst here to ignore the +tax effect of thalia. Maybe go up to two Explosives at some point. Fleshbag Dude is a card i also played at the past since it can handle every creature problem this deck can have. Removing big Blockers like Gofy/Knight, removing "hexproof/shroud" stuff like TNN/Nimble, Removing big creatures like Emrakul/Grisel/Eldrazi (Bonus Points for SnT!) etc. Its also a Zombie (for Ghast) can block (and kill a lot of stuff with 3 Power) and a solid attacker, if you count in common counters like Pierce his 3 Mana Edict effect is cheap(er) compared to classic spell solutions too. Yes it needs 3 Mana, but it isnt meant for killing Lackey etc and without DRS a lot of matchups dont need Turn 1 Removal or you can handle the time frame with other stuff. Overall it also made boarding a bit easier since you still keep creature count up and creatures are the way to win in most cases.

[maCHOOga]

So what do you think are the worst matchups? I've been jamming pickup games on MTGO in my free time, but not taking very good notes.

-The fair matchups seems fine provided you don't allow a Jitte to resolve. I think of the fair matchups, Maverick and/or AggroLoam is the worst.
- Reanimator seems unwinnable. We don't have interaction game 1 and games 2 and 3 require a lot of things to go right in our favor
- Mono red prison seems 50/50 provided we aren't shut down by chalice or bloodmoon effects.
- Miracles also seems 50/50 but is super grindy.
- I've been turn 0 leylined, but managed to just aggro around it.
- Bitterblossom has been very meh. It doesn't seem to be a good alternative win condition because people will be bringing in disenchant effects, this effectively gives them more things to use their disenchant on.
- I think I want to try Liliana, the Last Hope moving forward. in the sideboard. it wins the synergy award on all fronts.
- Has anyone tried Dismember? It seems functionally equivalent to snuff out and it allows you to kill opposing Gurmags.
- I also like the addition of the fleshbag marauders.

[Qweerios]

Good report, but a little rules tip for future pilots: You declare targets before you pay costs, which means you can target the creature you plan to sacrifice. This would get the creature in the graveyard and prevent you from having to ping your own Lilli.

Good catch! I totally knew that but it never occurred to me. Thanks!

I just realized that Scourge is a zombie... I want to try a light Entomb package with a singleton Scourge as a tutorable fatty sac outlet. I want to complete the package with a single Rotting Rats as another GY friendly symetric discard outlet and tutorable cheap zombie. Given the choice, I'd rather have a Scourge in play over a Gurmag or huge Feeder. My question for the Scourge users is the following: Is 1 Scourge enough to win? How often do you need multiples? My guess is that one is enough given that it is readily available.

@MD.Ghost

I highly suggest 21 lands for this deck. I did some hypergeometric calculations and compared 20 with 21 lands for opening 7 with 2 lands and opening 9 (turn3) with 3 lands. You generally want a minimum of 2 lands for your opening 7 to be a keep. I rarely keep 1 landers unless they have a really good Looting play. By T3 we really want to make 3 land drops in order to be able to cast most of our spells. With 20 lands you have good chances of having exactly 2 lands but your odds of drawing less than 2 are greater than your odds of drawing more than 2 by aproximately 6% IIRC. Once you go to 21, the scales tip in favor of more than 2 over less than 2. This calculation is extremely relevant when you goldfish keepable hands. When I calculate for 3 lands by T3, the results are similar and the scales tip again slightly in favor of more than 3 > less than 2. This calculation is relevant when you want to make natural land drops until at least T3. Basically 21 lands is as good as 20 lands when it comes to having exactly 2 in your opener and exactly 3 in your first 3 turns (less than 0.8% difference) but is statistically significantly (>5% difference) better at making sure you flood rather than starve on lands. A flood is always more desirable than a shortage when it comes to lands, especially with land denial in the format.

Also, why 3 Swamps? I rarely ever grab them and when I do, 2 is more than enough before I start needing red and white.

@Mach00ga,

I playtested a lot against Maverick and Bant and the matchup is aprox 45/55 in their favor pre-board. Discard is tempo-negative and they play high quality threats with potent mana denial. Postboard is aprox 65/35 in our favor as they tend to bring in some GY hate while we get to replace sub-par discard with very strong removal. My SB plan looks like this:
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+1 Wear +3 Push +2 ZP +2 Liliana
With 2 Abrade/2 Snuff main already this gave me a lot of space to get some synergy going despite their attempts at GY disruption.

I didn't get to play lots of Reanimator but I assume it would be a bad matchup. I can usually navigate Grisselbrand and Grave Titan but I can't let Elesh Norn hit the board. I was thinking about playing 4 pieces of GY hate in the SB given that discard is not so stellar against GY strategies. Nihil Spellbomb and the new Spirit Cleric come to mind here as they are both excellent against Mongoose, KotR, and Dredge for instance. Perhaps Coffin Purge might be interresting here, especially with an Entomb package?

Monored is awful G1 if you can't fetch or haven't fetched a swamp on T1 and we are pretty much at the mercy of Chalice without Abrade. If we get a Swamp out and we can deal with Chalice, the matchup skyrockets in our favor. You better be darn well equipped for G2-3 because we have no margin here. Having 2-3 Abrade mainboard and winning the die roll goes a long way in this coin-toss matchup. 3 Wear in the SB is mandatory here for T1 Moon and any deck packing Chalice. Sometimes the matchup is very favorable and sometimes it isn't. Overall they have very strong tools to shut us down and it's up to us to decide how many slots we want to dedicate to fighting CotV.

Miracles is way better than you think. For me it's all about getting some savage early discard, landing a Lilly and trying to take advantage of recursion. Most Miracle decks play a mix of Priest and Surgical over RiP which is much easier to deal with. CB can be annoying but they really struggle with PW in general. Liliana is great at keeping Miracles hellbent while they search for an answer. I definitely want a 3rd copy and will likely include it over Sculler. My SB for Miracles is:
-2 Gurmag -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -1 Fetch
+3 Wear +2 Sculler +2 Liliana

Elesh is one of the reasons why I favor Snuff Out over Dismember. Gurmag is really scarce nowadays and not so difficult to chump. Snuff takes care of KotR, Goyf and Ooze that are way above 5/5 and costs 0 mana which is extremely relevant versus the 1 mana you have to sink in Dismember. Being able to hit Leovold and BSK can be relevant but I simply don't encounter those often. The good thing about Dismember is that the life cost is more flexible and therefore the second copy is easier to cast. Honestly if you want removal at 1 mana, it doesn't get much better than StP.

Liliana the Last Hope is an amazing SB card in our deck. I simply find Liliana of the Veil more commonly applicable because I can easily bring it in against Combo (Reanimator, SnT, Storm) whereas LtLH only comes in against certain aggro and control decks. Against Aggro, Veil shines against Delver and Maverick-type decks while Hope shines against DnT and tribal decks. Against control they are both great except Veil doesn't further our GY dependancy for value. Obviouslt a split is the best option against Control.

Sculler is the SB slot I am most dissapointed with as it only shines against combo and burn-type decks. If I do end up adopting the Entomb package, discard will be more readily availlable and I will drop Sculler in a heartbeat.

I also thought a lot about Sudden Demise and compared it mostly to Zealous Persecution. ZP is great against Active Moms, TNN, and decks that play a lot of x/1 creatures of various colors (Maverick and Bant). Demise is better against tribal decks like Goblins, Elves, Merfolks, and arguably DnT despite the fact that it can't hit Revoker and won't stop an active Mom which can be both answered by Bombardment and a wide array of removal spells. Being red and able to hit for 2+ damage is huge against Mirran Crusader, Prelate, SFM, and any tribal deck that has access to lords. The matchups that are the most impacted by -x/-x effects are the one relying on a critical mass of creatures (Tribal decks) while the Maverick and Bant decks are hindered more by Lilianas, Pushes, and Wears. For these reasons I believe that ZP is better in a vacuum but that Demise is better in practice by beimg the best answer for the matchups you specifically want that effect in.

[LOLWut]

You Zombardment pilots will enjoy this Therapy play I saw.

https://clips.twitch.tv/YummyEsteemedWaspDansGame

[Xod]

Although not the same as the last hope, and 1 mana more, but have any of you guys checked out her:
Liliana, Untouched by Death (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%2C%20Untouched%20by%20Death)

Looks like more synergy.

[MD.Ghost]

Minor Side adjustments today:

-1 Sculler (2 now)
-1 Fleshbag (2 now)
+1 Liliana of the Veil (Covers both)
+1 Engineered Explosives (2 now)


So what do you think are the worst matchups? I've been jamming pickup games on MTGO in my free time, but not taking very good notes.

-The fair matchups seems fine provided you don't allow a Jitte to resolve. I think of the fair matchups, Maverick and/or AggroLoam is the worst.
You are right here
- Reanimator seems unwinnable. We don't have interaction game 1 and games 2 and 3 require a lot of things to go right in our favor
This decks is made to beat combo, Reanimate is a 3 card combo shell, so disruption works, yes you will lose vs awesome starts like other combo decks too. I win a high amount of (different) reanimate matchups so i dont fear it, while its harder now G1 without a playset DRS its still possible to win (i currently run 10 Discards Main + a fast clock). Sideboard not only gives access to Graveyard Hate it will also offers (if build well) solutions for fatties (Note: With Fleshbag Marauder at yard you can also negate any Exhume Target besides Grave Titan). Reanimate Decks are also currently on everyones radar so i dont think they will become Deck to Beat.
- Mono red prison seems 50/50 provided we aren't shut down by chalice or bloodmoon effects.
Really loopsided in terms of game start and hand. Clearly better with Side and a bunch of Artifact Hate.
- Miracles also seems 50/50 but is super grindy.
Miracles was a positive matchup in the past and this hasn't change. While DRS provided super utility (but often get sworded too) the Stitcher Versions can now be faster Game 1 and after this its all about Sideboard and the creedo don't overextend vs Terminus. Containment Priest will not stop Scourge, Souls or Crawler, so the best bet for Miracle is RiP (which will be answered anyway with Wear//Tear and friends), a single Surgical will not kill this deck, yes it can be worse with Snapcaster but even than this deck has a lot of tools to go head to head in a grind. I rarely lose vs Miracle with Bombardment and a rise of Miracle often wasn't bad, besides longer games. Feeder + Bombardment are very usefull here, especially now without STD+CB.
- I've been turn 0 leylined, but managed to just aggro around it.
Not many Decks run Leyline and it will go down once the panic for Reanimator Decks go down too. It will also punish some players with Mulligans.
- Bitterblossom has been very meh. It doesn't seem to be a good alternative win condition because people will be bringing in disenchant effects, this effectively gives them more things to use their disenchant on.
Yes Bitterblossom can be super slow and sometimes is meh or useless (drawn late) but its usefull in face of many graveyard hate and grindy battles. I don't think opponents will board in much enchanment hate, while Bombardment can be strong its the only enchanment and will only be abused if the Graveyard Engines run too, which means with enough Graveyard Hate you will beat Bombardment too and dont need a "Disenchant here". If you argue for Disenchant vs us it would be better to run Bitterblossom (Hidden Stockpile) to present more targets over Bombardment.
- I think I want to try Liliana, the Last Hope moving forward. in the sideboard. it wins the synergy award on all fronts.
As Qweerios already mentioned, yes solid walker but will only shine vs DnT/Elves/Controll since it does nothing vs Combo/Big Creatures. Liliana of the Veil is the better all around Walker here.
- Has anyone tried Dismember? It seems functionally equivalent to snuff out and it allows you to kill opposing Gurmags.
Before i run Dismember i will run Snuff Out too - Qweerios is right here. I don't see the Zombie Fish stay in the future meta, Grixis shells will go down unless they get new cards.
- I also like the addition of the fleshbag marauders.
Thanks, underrated but have a place in this pile of cards


Good catch! I totally knew that but it never occurred to me. Thanks!

I just realized that Scourge is a zombie... I want to try a light Entomb package with a singleton Scourge as a tutorable fatty sac outlet. I want to complete the package with a single Rotting Rats as another GY friendly symetric discard outlet and tutorable cheap zombie. Given the choice, I'd rather have a Scourge in play over a Gurmag or huge Feeder. My question for the Scourge users is the following: Is 1 Scourge enough to win? How often do you need multiples? My guess is that one is enough given that it is readily available.

Scourge of Nel Toth is in fact a Zombie, its a key feature :laugh: 1 Entomb + 1 Scourge +1 Rats means you get more randomness here. Yes Entomb can be another Souls/Ghast/Looting too but you can also never draw it, get it countered discarded or put into yard from stitcher. Hitting a higher amount of Scourge naturally (Stitcher/Looting etc.) is way better, its more streamlined and in terms of fatty i would clearly go either 2 or more Fish or 2 or more Dragon. The big Fish is often easier to cast, but you will find the dragon easier if you use Stitcher aggressiv (i do with CT, Feeder etc.). This deck don't need a fatty to win/function but its now a) possible and b) a nice support for your small creature swarm and will made it more difficult for your opponent in terms of removal/attacks/blocks etc. Yes if it sticks on the field 1 should be enough but i also had 2 of them on the field turn 4 etc. which is a very comfortable position.

Also, why 3 Swamps? I rarely ever grab them and when I do, 2 is more than enough before I start needing red and white.

As you wrote Mono Red needs a good start and while the game can go wrong with chalice/sphere etc. 7-8 moon effects can also ruin the day, another swamp helps and its the same like the Scrubland discussion, you quickly can hit swamps with stitcher or discard it with looting (cause you need a dual more or other cards) and some cards need BB (Ghast, Liliana or return Crawler) so 3 is a safer way here. Overall its up in the air and a 4th Badlands over a 3rd Swamp is also solid enough (i played 4:2 in the past too). 21 Lands means one less slot (and i am not the one that already argue for removal main too), currently 20 is fine from my test games if you keep the mana curve low enough (so no cc4 cards etc.). If i would go up to 21 i would think about Dakmor Salvage, especially in a build with Scourge etc.

Sculler is the SB slot I am most dissapointed with as it only shines against combo and burn-type decks. If I do end up adopting the Entomb package, discard will be more readily availlable and I will drop Sculler in a heartbeat.

Sculler is indeed a weaker card, but not as bad as it seems, its a body (important since disruption your opponent alone will not win a game), its a zombie (abuse Crawler) and it exiles the card (permanently with Feeder/Bombardment if needed) this is important vs decks that also use the graveyard (for example exile a fatty vs reanimate). Its a solid support for your T1 Discard Suite and comes in vs Combo and some Control decks and for cc2 you will not an easy replacement. I would at least play two copies.

I also thought a lot about Sudden Demise and compared it mostly to Zealous Persecution. ZP is great against Active Moms, TNN, and decks that play a lot of x/1 creatures of various colors (Maverick and Bant). Demise is better against tribal decks like Goblins, Elves, Merfolks, and arguably DnT despite the fact that it can't hit Revoker and won't stop an active Mom which can be both answered by Bombardment and a wide array of removal spells. Being red and able to hit for 2+ damage is huge against Mirran Crusader, Prelate, SFM, and any tribal deck that has access to lords. The matchups that are the most impacted by -x/-x effects are the one relying on a critical mass of creatures (Tribal decks) while the Maverick and Bant decks are hindered more by Lilianas, Pushes, and Wears. For these reasons I believe that ZP is better in a vacuum but that Demise is better in practice by beimg the best answer for the matchups you specifically want that effect in.

I don't feel Sudden Demise is so strong. As you already pointed out, finding the right Sweeper is super hard since you will not hit any situation/deck perfectly. While Z.Persecution is way better vs DnT (ignore Mom + hit Revoker + Instant), Demise shine vs 2+ Thougness IF (and that can be hard vs Thalia/Port/Waste too) also have enough Mana. Merfolk will quickly outgrow it, while Decks like Maverick run a difficult mix (bigger dudes + small utility) a card like Toxic Deluge would be better here. Firestorm can also be a cheap option. As you can see i also tinker around with Explosives that can also hit multiple targets or sweep a token swarm.



You Zombardment pilots will enjoy this Therapy play I saw.

https://clips.twitch.tv/YummyEsteemedWaspDansGame

Awesome - Therapy is such a great card and mastering it without easymode-Probe was always a key element in this deck (or Nic Fit, Elves etc.) Therapy gets better if you knew the format/decks/meta well enough and hitting with it isnt so difficult with experience. Brainstorm is always a solid blind call T1 otp. I remember a game i hit 3 delvers (i knew the enemy deck) blind g1 otp and my opponent scooped immediately :laugh:

EDIT

Although not the same as the last hope, and 1 mana more, but have any of you guys checked out her:
Liliana, Untouched by Death (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%2C%20Untouched%20by%20Death)

Looks like more synergy.

4 Mana without DRS seems too much unless you want a super late game walker, but as i mentioned above this deck is already very good to grind out (and you have many things to do with spare mana) and overall the new Liliana don't look so strong - yes we run a bunch of Zombies but we already run Ghast/Souls a lot of non-creature spells (even more with Sideboard Options). So all of here abilities can also do near to nothing, i would run Sorin, Solemn Visitor/Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and other cc4 walkers here.

[Qweerios]

Took down a 4 round 30ish players weekly with an experimental list. I got lucky against a few nightmare matchups. Here's the list and a brief report:

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Rotting Rats
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

2 Entomb
2 Snuff Out
2 Abrade
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
1 Remorseful Cleric
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Sudden Demise
3 Liliana of the Veil


R1: Lands 2-1
G1 I get Waste-Loamed T1
G2 is long and grindy I stall Chasm, Stage, Depths and Tabernacle while I wait with an army and a Bombardment. She has no Exploration so Stage copying Chasm eventually gets her when I extract Stage and Chasm.
G3 I put some Thoughtseize back, nail a KGrip and manage to Surgical PFire and race Lage token with souls and Ghasts. Entomb for Souls was amazing

R2: Mono Black Burn brew 2-0
Nothing to report here other than I had to aggro him out and it worked great. Casting Rats to put a Crawler in the GY and get a discard was great. I then Entombed for Scourge and shut the door.

R3: 4c Loam 2-1
G1: I have a have a T1 Supplier and a good hand to play around him T1 Chalice. Souls + Ghast beats get there with a Snuff Out on KotR.
G2: My opponent opens with a Leyline of the Void and a T1 Chalice. Abrade gets the Chalice but I cant find an answer to Leyline and his PFires amd wrecking me. He finds another Chalice before I find wear.
G3: T1 Supplier gets Bog'd but I ride a Liliana to victory with a Ghast, Souls, and Bombardment.

R4: Grixis Control 2-1
G1: I play and flashback 3 Souls, he is overwhelmed
G2: I keep a Paradise + Looting opener and develop too slow. I lose to Needle on Bombardment and Engineered Plague on Spirits. In come the 3 Wear...
G3: I get some good discard but he hides a Plague with brainstorm and shuts my Zombie plan. Ghast + Souls + Bombardment get there in the end.

Props:
-Entomb was great for Ghast, Therapy, and Souls saved my ass.
-Scourge as a 1-of has to be respected and is a great target for Entomb. I bought 2 but I won't be playing both.
-Rotting Rats is surprisingly good when played naturally. Even though I didn't Entomb for it, it often influenced my decisions on how I would extend and rebuild.

Slops:
-I should have included the 4th Badlands and it nearly cost me a game.

Going forward I have mixed feelings about Rats but they are definitely worth more testing. Even thouh Entomb is great, I am still hesitant about playing more copies as they did come out for G2-3 when I was expecting heavy GY hate. I also want to vary my GY hate package by splitting Extraction with perhaps 2 Nihil Spellbombs or Remorseful Cleric. I want some non-Surgical GY hate that can be splashed for various matchups. I also want a 4th enchantment hate piece and I thought of 1-2 Vindicates in my SB. Having no means to interact with lands felt very desperate. Vindicate is also great in many matchups when you don't necessarily want to bring in Wear but could be faced with random hate (RUG with Cage for example, or Grixis Control with Plague and Needle for instance).

[ottomanottoman]

Got 3rd at a weekly legacy with 12 players going 3-1 last night using a very similar list to Qweerios non-entomb build. I beat DnT, High Tide, and UW RIP-Helm control. Lost to a turbo-angler build of grixis delver. A couple things I noticed was snuff out was amazing in both the delver and DnT matchup. I would not have thought of that card had I not read this thread. Carrion feeder sped up the clock against High Tide but otherwise I wasn’t impressed with him and there weren’t many spots where I felt I needed a carrion feeder. I am definitely going to slot in cryptbreakers and see how those go. Thank you all for the in-depth discussions on this deck since the banning of DRS.

[Qweerios]

Got 3rd at a weekly legacy with 12 players going 3-1 last night using a very similar list to Qweerios non-entomb build. I beat DnT, High Tide, and UW RIP-Helm control. Lost to a turbo-angler build of grixis delver. A couple things I noticed was snuff out was amazing in both the delver and DnT matchup. I would not have thought of that card had I not read this thread. Carrion feeder sped up the clock against High Tide but otherwise I wasn’t impressed with him and there weren’t many spots where I felt I needed a carrion feeder. I am definitely going to slot in cryptbreakers and see how those go. Thank you all for the in-depth discussions on this deck since the banning of DRS.

Well done! Especially against UW RiP-Helm, that MU is rough. You could always try Dismember over Snuff Out if you have a Turbo Angler player in your meta. Not hitting Germ Token, Gurmag, Leo, and Bob are the big downsides to Snuff. Goyfs rarely get bigger than 4/5 and early KotR are usually within range too. Leo and Gurmag see much less play now but they are still relevant cards that can put a dent in our plans. Dismember offers more coverage and flexibility but costs 1 mana. It shouldn't be an issue if you can avoid Daze and Thalia. Another cool thing about Dismember is that you can hit a Magus of the Moon through a Chalice without a Swamp. I would drop Snuff for Dismember in a heartbeat if my meta called for it.

I tested 4 Feeders for a while but cut down to 3, then down to 2, and now 0. The less Feeders I saw, the better the deck performed. I ended up cutting Feeder entirely for 2 Cryptbreakers instead of 2 Entomb. What ended up happening was that I was never in a position where I wanted to activate him even though I could. Getting a 2/2 by dumping a Ghast is great but not worth the card, tempo and mana investment (3 mana over 2 turns just to discard a card). Given the choice I preffer to flashback Looting and get through more cards in nearly every case. Ghast and Crawler are the only cards you actually want to discard to Breaker rather than casting them. That isn't a whole lot... Please let us know about your experiences with Breaker. Personally, Entomb is the card I crave more than ever now that I have a Scourge plan lategame. Entomb is the card I want at every stage in the game and it grabs the missing piece of the puzzle for some degenerate synergy. Take these common lines of play for example:

-T1 Seize and T2 Therapy. Entomb puts the Ghast on time in the GY for some tripple discard by T2 and sets you up for recursion. You can also Entomb for a Therapy if you need interaction against combo.
-T1 Entomb for Ghast knowing that you can T2 Bombardment and ping that Mom, Lackey, Elf or Infecter if we are on the play.
-Entomb for Souls if you know Depths is about to happen
-Entomb for Scourge when the ground is stalled by fatties

I know I will be on Entomb with a singleton Scourge for a while!

Another thing I've been pondering lately is the inclusion of a 4th piece of GY hate and how it would vary from Surgical. Other GY decks are more degenerate than ours and we rely on some heavy GY hate to take them down. Given that my meta has some notorious Lands and 4c Loam players, some Bomberman and the omnipresent Reanimators, I figured Extirpate might be a great inclusion. Split Second is super relevant against PFire, Loam with cycle lands, and LED when Bomberman is going off. It can also throw off some manaless Dredge players that want to cycle Wraiths in response to Surgical. It won't get countered by counterspells either against UB Reanimator. I initially wanted a pair of Remorseful Clerics for the full GY nuke and flying beats but 2 mana for GY hate won't cut it against Dredge, Reanimator, and PFire. I will definitely try a 2/2 Surgical/Extirpate split going forward.

[ottomanottoman]

Well done! Especially against UW RiP-Helm, that MU is rough. You could always try Dismember over Snuff Out if you have a Turbo Angler player in your meta. Not hitting Germ Token, Gurmag, Leo, and Bob are the big downsides to Snuff. Goyfs rarely get bigger than 4/5 and early KotR are usually within range too. Leo and Gurmag see much less play now but they are still relevant cards that can put a dent in our plans. Dismember offers more coverage and flexibility but costs 1 mana. It shouldn't be an issue if you can avoid Daze and Thalia. Another cool thing about Dismember is that you can hit a Magus of the Moon through a Chalice without a Swamp. I would drop Snuff for Dismember in a heartbeat if my meta called for it.

I tested 4 Feeders for a while but cut down to 3, then down to 2, and now 0. The less Feeders I saw, the better the deck performed. I ended up cutting Feeder entirely for 2 Cryptbreakers instead of 2 Entomb. What ended up happening was that I was never in a position where I wanted to activate him even though I could. Getting a 2/2 by dumping a Ghast is great but not worth the card, tempo and mana investment (3 mana over 2 turns just to discard a card). Given the choice I preffer to flashback Looting and get through more cards in nearly every case. Ghast and Crawler are the only cards you actually want to discard to Breaker rather than casting them. That isn't a whole lot... Please let us know about your experiences with Breaker. Personally, Entomb is the card I crave more than ever now that I have a Scourge plan lategame. Entomb is the card I want at every stage in the game and it grabs the missing piece of the puzzle for some degenerate synergy. Take these common lines of play for example:

-T1 Seize and T2 Therapy. Entomb puts the Ghast on time in the GY for some tripple discard by T2 and sets you up for recursion. You can also Entomb for a Therapy if you need interaction against combo.
-T1 Entomb for Ghast knowing that you can T2 Bombardment and ping that Mom, Lackey, Elf or Infecter if we are on the play.
-Entomb for Souls if you know Depths is about to happen
-Entomb for Scourge when the ground is stalled by fatties

I know I will be on Entomb with a singleton Scourge for a while!

Another thing I've been pondering lately is the inclusion of a 4th piece of GY hate and how it would vary from Surgical. Other GY decks are more degenerate than ours and we rely on some heavy GY hate to take them down. Given that my meta has some notorious Lands and 4c Loam players, some Bomberman and the omnipresent Reanimators, I figured Extirpate might be a great inclusion. Split Second is super relevant against PFire, Loam with cycle lands, and LED when Bomberman is going off. It can also throw off some manaless Dredge players that want to cycle Wraiths in response to Surgical. It won't get countered by counterspells either against UB Reanimator. I initially wanted a pair of Remorseful Clerics for the full GY nuke and flying beats but 2 mana for GY hate won't cut it against Dredge, Reanimator, and PFire. I will definitely try a 2/2 Surgical/Extirpate split going forward.

My early testing with this deck after the banning was with an entomb+scourge. I was definitely impressed with the dragon as well but for the weekly I wanted to try out the gurmag list. Being able to get gurmag often by T3 and sometimes even T2 if stitcher binned a bunch of inconsequential cards felt REALLY good for sure and quickly put the pressure on. However, I have definitely had a handful of games so far where the dragon got me out of spots that gurmag would not. I get it’s early in the meta and small sample size etc. etc. but so far I agree with you that the dragon is worth a slot or two. I’ll also slot in dismembers in for snuff out and report back how that goes.

[Kobra_D]

I've been on and off with this deck since the banning but finally got in some practice this past week. What I've noticed so far for the maindeck:

-Scourge of Nel Toth is a miserable top deck. I get it, you are supposed to entomb for it, but every once in a while it shows up on top and feels like a time walk for your opponent. I started out with 3, which definitely amplified the issue, but even having one will be an issue sometimes.

-Carrion Feeder still leaves me underwhelmed. I didn't like it in the DRS days and it still seems mediocre, yes it gets big, but tribal can't block isn't exactly fun to play sometimes. A big part of aggro mirrors is determining who is the beatdown, and this kind of takes away that aspect of the game. It also doesn't close fast enough imo to be stick around.

-Tidehollow Sculler is weaker without carrion feeder around. It's still a good card, but it isn't exactly what it used to be. I've cut to 0 in my list but more so to clean up my mana base by getting to fetch basic swamp earlier.

-Smuggler's Copter seemed reasonable in theory but always came up as underwhelming for me. It may just be that it was a win more style of card. It's great putting you ahead, when you're on board, but didn't pull back too much from behind.

-Mutavault was something I tried prior to sticher's supplier being legal in paper. It's a zombie and triggers gravecrawler, but a colorless land in such a greedy manabase is as close to a hard pass as possible. Opening hands were weird to evaluate with mutavault in the lands.

-Entomb was surprisingly not necessary, I was sure that all the entomb lists coming out were just wrong, but the deck still functioned. I've kept entombs in for the moment but it makes more sense to me.

-Stitcher's supplier is the truth. I'm not sure what has helped this deck more, banning DRS or printing this but it does add a ton of consistency.

-Gravecrawler this card is wonderful, but I tend to not run more than 1. It adds to the doesn't block side of things, and doesn't come in with haste. It does provide pressure though, and always keeps a body around.

-Lingering Souls the card is great, reasonable to cast on both halves, and provides flyers. The one complaint is that it does not provide zombies, and that's ok.

-Bridge From Below seems to be strong and worth consideration. It has the same issue in my opinion as scourge, but does a little more in building up an unreasonable amount of zombies. I readily accept the fact that I am biased by having played this card a ton already, so I accept the fact that not playing the card may also be right.

- Umezawa's Jitte always was where I wanted it when I wanted it. I drew it against maverick and d&t a bunch, and I milled it with supplier against combo decks like a pro. So, with that said, it did everything I wanted and seemed great. I'm more interested in seeing how bad it is when it doesn't show up vs fair decks, or when I need thoughtseize against ANT and draw jitte. Needs more testing for sure but I do like it at the moment.

-Burning Inquiry is absolutely hilarious. It was reasonable each time I cast it but also seemed like I could have just wanted discard spells most of the time.

[Kobra_D]

And just to separate things a little bit, for the sideboard somethings I've noticed:

-Hollow One alongside burning inquiry, the sideboard starts to look like a modern deck, and a lot of fair decks stumble against early 4/4s and 5/5s. That being said, most of the fair decks already felt as reasonable match ups and I wanted sideboard slots todeal with more unfair decks.

-Bitterblossom still doesn't defeat combo decks, but is a 1 card transformational sideboard plan that fights around gravehate. It is definitely cleaner than hollow one, but also doesn't close as quickly.

-Urborg Justice is the truth. Whole truth. Nothing but the truth. Opponent has 2 Nimble mongoose and a true name? No problem, sacrifice a couple of bloodghast to bombardment and have a toxic deluge for 2. Tag Marit lage tokens, SnS/reanimator targets, and otherwise keep a copy around. Plus the art is fantastic and if I have 1 goal it's to make the deck mono Vorthos artwork.

-Flame of Keld surprisingly put in a ton of work the 1 time I cast it. That being said, I never wanted to see it any other time and rarely boarded it in. While sweet, it ate up sb slots.

-Coffin Purge was interesting for the surprise factor, but too slow where you really want it. Except against lands, it was great against lands.

Otherwise, my sideboard was pretty straightforward most of the time with surgicals, duress, wear//tear being mainstays. I haven't tried ensnaring bridge yet, but that has crossed my mind as a way to "interact" with the cheat fatty combo decks. I keep looking for a transformational sideboard plan, but I've found that the best way to beat hate is just to play through it. Try not to expose bloodghast to surgical, keep up fetches for rip, and mulligan aggressively to discard spells, especially on the draw, and hopefully things will break in your favor.

[ReneRandrup]

Hi Zombardment followers!

Back home from 3 weeks vacation and immediately started brewing in the new No-Deathrite-meta ;-)

I just 5-0 with this decklist Legacy Leaque 29/7 -2018

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1242230#paper

I am not sure for Kitesail Freebooter ... maybe just
1) another Thoughtseize or
2) one more Dark Confidant or maybe even better
3) one Scourge of Nel Toth for a different angle of attack and also a sac effect that can be tutored with entomb

Pyrexeian Altar enables combo win ... did that a couple of games :-)

ReneRandrup

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Hi Zombardment followers!

Back home from 3 weeks vacation and immediately started brewing in the new No-Deathrite-meta ;-)

I just 5-0 with this decklist Legacy Leaque 29/7 -2018

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1242230#paper

I am not sure for Kitesail Freebooter ... maybe just
1) another Thoughtseize or
2) one more Dark Confidant or maybe even better
3) one Scourge of Nel Toth for a different angle of attack and also a sac effect that can be tutored with entomb

Pyrexeian Altar enables combo win ... did that a couple of games :-)

ReneRandrup
So Sculler will always be better than free booter because it's a zombie for gravecrawler, and uses the old two-trigger templating which allows you to sacrifice-in-response and permanently remove the card.

[MD.Ghost]

Played a small local tournament last weekend (18 Players / 5 Rounds) and gave the new Stitcher Version a first real spin.

1:2 Burn (can't beat two eidolons g2 and run out of gas g3)
2:1 ANT (g1 never saw land 2, g2-3 was like it should be vs this deck)
2:1 Eldrazi Stompy (was close to beat Chalice G1.. G2 got a super fast start, G3 Carrion Feeder won the grind)
0:2 Sneak Show (G1 close but overall not the right mix of dísruption+beats, G2 i die vs new Artisan Tech with Marauder in Hand but only two lands for several turns...)
2:0 Grixis Control (G1 was over super fast, G2 i won vs 3 Surgical Extractions fast again).

3:2 and missing some good matchups like 2 miracle decks, overall many stompy decks around (1 Eldrazi, 2 Steel, 1 Moon) and burn overall never was a good matchup too. Overall performance was okay and i won the style award too.

Decklist:
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Stitcher's Supplier
2 Scourge of Nel Toth
1 Gurmag Angler

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Goblin Bombardment

3 Badlands
3 Swamp
3 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats

//Sideboard
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Darkblast
2 Abrade
1 Kolaghan's Command

Notes:
Never won the dice roll - so always starting behind...
Decided to cut 1 Dragon to test out Angler but the big Fish only showed up 2 Times, vs ANT i couldn't cast him G1 since i missed the 2nd Land and needed to disrupt my opponent and the time Gurmag entered the field it was to late since i faced Tendrils next turn. The game vs Sneak and Show i couldnt fill the yard fast enough (yah sometimes...) and died with it in hand. Dragon won quickly vs Burn and BUG but i maybe keep up both since Angler can still be usefull (castable from hand, goes around Extraction/Cage and reuseable with K.Command) - speaking about Kolaghan's Command i made this last minute switch over Liliana of the Veil since i saw so many Chalice decks and wanted another option that also plays well with Marauder Tech. Only draw Command once but it wasnt the right situation to cast it. Fleshbag itself was usefull vs Burn, really good vs Eldrazi (but my SnT opponent saw it here too...) and would have won me the game vs SnT if i had drawn the third land... so i will keep this dude around. Its not a surprise that Abrade was a really good card and i like the cc2 solution that will also find a creature target in most cases too.

Carrion Feeder doesnt get the right spotlight here (every last MODO list also uses the playset...) and i can't imagine we really discuss the cut of it here. Card is critical vs every white (Swords/Path) deck and can instantly switch the decks place from disruption to aggro. Since it can grow the turn it hits the field or easily go later with every Ghast+Landdrop it is way faster than every other cc1 zombie. It won me the stall vs Eldrazi since i was able to quickly get a 5/5+ before the next chalice entered the field and i my opponent couldn't win with TKS+Endbringer (that can easily wreak the decks 2/1 or 1/1 swarms). Sure he can't block and if you are really behind he is a worst card but the deck is full with that stuff anyway and you need to get the right pieces and keep the game under control either with disruption, very fast beats or both elements mixed up well.

[Xod]

What do you usually board out? Discard against fair decks? Souls against combo decks?

[Qweerios]

What do you usually board out? Discard against fair decks? Souls against combo decks?

Here are my (incomplete) notes and SB map:

Zombardment

Creatures (14)
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Rotting Rats
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

Spells (22)
2 Entomb
2 Abrade
2 Snuff Out
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls

Others (3)
3 Goblin Bombardment

Lands (21)
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
4 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp

Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate* / Remorseful Spirit
2 Zealous Persecution / Sudden Demise
3 Wear // Tear
3 Fatal Push
3 Liliana of the Veil


Aggro

DnT
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+3 Wear +3 Push +2 Demise/ZP

Eldrazi
-4 TS -4 Therapy -1 Bombardment
+3 Wear +3 Push +3 Liliana

Canadian ZP
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+3 Push +3 Liliana +2 ZP/Spirit

Goblins SD
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+3 Push +2 Demise/ZP +3 Liliana

Maverick/Bant ZP
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+2 Wear +3 Push +3 Liliana

Infect ZP
-1 Scourge -1 Rats -1 Paradise -2 Souls?
+3 Push +2 ZP?

Burn
-4 TS -2 Snuff
+3 Push +3 Liliana

Red Stompy
-3 Therapy
+3 Wear

Combo

Reanimator
-1 Rats -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -2 Souls
+2 Surgical +2 Extirpate +3 Liliana

Turbo Depths
-2 Snuff -2 Abrade
+3 Liliana

Storm
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -4 Souls
+2 Surgical +2 Extirpate/Spirit +2 Demise/ZP +3 Liliana

Sneak n Show
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -3 Souls
+2 Surgical +3 Wear +3 Liliana

Elves SD
-2 Abrade -3 Souls
+3 Push +2 SD

Control

Miracle
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -1 Badlands
+3 Wear +3 Liliana

Stoneblade ZP
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -3 Therapy
+3 Wear +3 Liliana

Lands
-2 Snuff -2 Abrade -3 Therapy
+2 Surgical +2 Extirpate/Spirit +3 Wear

Grixis
-2 Snuff -1 Badlands
+3 Liliana

4c Loam
-4 TS -4 Therapy -2 Entomb -1 Rats
+2 Extirpate/Spirit +3 Push +3 Wear +3 Liliana

@ReneRandrup,

Cool list! Everytime I try and rationalize cutting Souls and including Decay it ends up not worth it. Souls plays a crucial role and is our main source of grind against control and some combo decks (Depths and Griselbrand). Decay is phenomenal for us but Wear // Tear plays a crucial role as a CMC 1 enchantment removal for Leylines Sanctity/Void. Hopefully the new Ravnica block will grant us a BW functional Vindicate!

[maCHOOga]

Have a pair of 2-1's to report on. One on mtgo, one in paper. I meant to type this up earlier, but life is crazy per the norm.
4 bloodghast
4 gravecrawler
4 stitcher's supplier
3 carrion feeder
2 gurmag angler
~*~*~*~
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
-> 2 Dismember
-> 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Goblin Zombardment
*~*~*~*
11 Black Fetchlands
3 Badlands
3 Swamp
3 Scrublands
1 Undiscovered Paradise

*~* Sideboard *~*
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Wear / Tear
2 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Collective Brutality
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

I hedged and slide a liliana maindeck as I heading into a metagame that is usually ripe with death and taxes.

MTGO:
Round 1: (2-1) Goblins w. maindeck chalice, pyrokensis + 4 Leyline SB
-> The only reason I won this round was because they drew triple leyline in game 3, kept and I was able to go on the agro plan.
Round 2: (1-2) Eldrazi
-> I accidently misclicked, stifled myself with a fetch and it cost me the match.
Round 3: (2-0) Monoblack Reanimator
-> This is a super budget version and shouldn't count towards records.

Paper:
Round 1: (2-0) Storm
-> I think this matchup is 55/45 in our favor depending if they have a turn 1. I feel like its 5% per turn with all the discard that we have.
Round 2: (1-2) Punishing Maverick
-> Jitte, KotR and Punishing Fire. This matchup seems 20/80 in their favor unless things break perfectly in our favor.
Round 3: (2-1) RB Reanimator
-> Game 1 feels near impossible unless you win the die roll. G2 them mulliganed to 4 which was a non-game. G3 they went all in with an elesh norn. I managed to survive and played a fleshbag marauder and quickly turned the corner.

[MD.Ghost]

What do you usually board out? Discard against fair decks? Souls against combo decks?

I would never board out to much discard - especially since its this decks way to disrupt game plans. While 2-4 TS can be cutted vs Aggro (especially if you also run stuff like Collective Brutality or Liliana or Sculler) i keep in Cabal Therapy in every matchup, its a super strong card once you know the meta and decks floating around. It can discard 2+ cards, even if you dont hit blind this decks easily can reuse the card - at the end its still okay to land in the yard via Stitcher/Looting if you dont need it now. Discard overs Protection for Graveyard-Hate, Exile-Removal or Counters for important Stuff like Bombardment or Sideboard-Answers.

Since the deck will face Graveyard Hate Game 2 (more "Hard answer" without DRS) you need a way around it (Hate-Hate or alternative cards like Bitterblossom) end should focus less on the yard too. Every fair deck will have a hard time once you enable the core enginees like Ghast/Crawler with Bombardment/Feeder so you dont need Bridge/Entomb/Dragon or should at least trim some copies. Same is true for Stitcher vs some Decks, while Stitcher is awesome G1 vs opponents that can't interact with your yard, its a higher risk after boarding. You not only expose you vs Graveyard hate, you also can hit sideboard cards. So i often cut 2 Stitcher Game 2 and 1-2 fatties too. Overall it depend on the hate pieces, Extraction will be thrown at Ghast/Crawler/Souls in most cases and you can play around it sometimes, Containment Priest will not shut down Crawler or Scourge, Grafdigger's Cage is back in the Meta too - Angler works fine against it, Bridge from Below isnt dead too. Leyline or RiP are harder since it needs an answer, RiP at least can be discarded or easier destroyed if you keep in mind cards like E.Explosives too (a good sweeper vs DnT since they run so many good cc2 cards and thalia will not tax EE if played right).

If you run Abrade you should keep it vs Sneak and Show too since it handles Grafdigger's Cage or Arcane Artisan Tech well and both will be common side answers from your opponent.

[ReneRandrup]

Here's another list I 5-0 with on the 2 august 2018

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1249857#paper

Played against
1) 4 color control with conterbalance 2-1
2) BUG Delver 2-1
3) Eldrazi 2-0
4) 4 color control 2-0
5) Sneak and show 2-0

I for sure prefer Black/Red (splash for green) builds and with entomb and bridges over white and Lingering souls.

Its way more explosive and allows some fast kills. I actually consider entomb the best card in the deck ... there are so many targets for it, but mostly its for bridge and that starts the snowball of zombies. I actually have both turn 3 and 4 kills with the deck.

Also bridge can turn any creature sac into a zombie and that is so powerfull. It dont even have to be a zombie to begin with. That opens up for including non-zombie creatures in the deck and in this build I play 2 Dark confidant and 1 Grim Lavamancer.

For fun I have testet 1 Pyrexian Altar over the third Bombarment and so far it has been good.

When playing with entomb/bridge u really have to know the deck and its triggers/interaction very well.

There have been many very close games and it was the small things that pulled the win though.

I am thinking of making some replay videos if anybody is interested.

They will be uploade on my youtube channel then ... where there actually are more older videos of zombie games since I have actually been playing/brewing zombies on/off for the last couple of years.

ReneRandrup

[Nocioni88]

Would be awesome!!


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[Qweerios]

@ReneRandrup

I agree with you that Entomb is phenomenal in the deck. I think it really shines pre-board. Unfortunately it doesn't line up too well with my postboard plans of avoiding GY dependency. Maybe I am wrong and it is simply too good not to play the full set. I've played 4 before and have definitely had many postboard games where I was holding a bunch of Entombs against a static piece of GY hate...

I am intrigued by your green > white version, especially because Decay is a card I wish I had mainboard. I can't help but notice that you play 29 CMC1 cards in the main with only 1 Grudge and 1 Decay in the board. I can't get behind a deck that plans on folding to Chalice. Only 1 Nature's Claim in the board means you likely won't be able to deal with Sanctity or Void in time. Reverent Silence comes to mind here. You've definitely been having success with Bridge and Feeders so that might be interresting to look into. Keep up the good work!

[jugglervr]

Since the deck is a tempo-based b/r deck... any thought to Backlash to answer Marit Lage and Gurmag Angler? Really nice vs Emrakul and the big eldrazi threats as well (it's even a discard outlet vs reality smasher). Decent vs goyf. At worst it's a lightning helix pointed at face vs delver & clique.

Medium vs germ tokens and vs griselbrand and the rest of reanimator, bad vs KotR and Endbringer because they can tap and make an illegal target. Bad vs TNN. bad-ish vs a suited up D&T threat because of Mom but could be used in response to protection from another effect.

edit: I feel like my post # is appropriate for the nonsense I just proposed. ;D

[ReneRandrup]

Since the deck is a tempo-based b/r deck... any thought to Backlash to answer Marit Lage and Gurmag Angler? Really nice vs Emrakul and the big eldrazi threats as well (it's even a discard outlet vs reality smasher). Decent vs goyf. At worst it's a lightning helix pointed at face vs delver & clique.

Medium vs germ tokens and vs griselbrand and the rest of reanimator, bad vs KotR and Endbringer because they can tap and make an illegal target. Bad vs TNN. bad-ish vs a suited up D&T threat because of Mom but could be used in response to protection from another effect.

edit: I feel like my post # is appropriate for the nonsense I just proposed. ;D

I prefer Urborg Justice. It can be a powerhouse in many matchup incl vs Marit Large / Gurmag / TNN

[ReneRandrup]

Lastes results with zombardment

1)
I 5-2'ed in the Legacy Challenge and got 17th with this deck
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19797&d=327654&f=LE

2)
Also I just brewed a little with Squee's and made a Legacy Leaque 5-0 the 7 august with this deck
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1259481#paper

Played against
1) Rug Delver 2-0
2) Aluren 2-1
3) Death's Shadow 2-0
4) Burn 2-1
5) Miracles 2-0

Imortal Squee was super against miracles.

ReneRandrup

[johncarvalho]

Hey there!

I got back to MTG around 2 months ago, straight to legacy, after a loooooong time (started playing in 95, got on and off a couple of times), and zombardment is the deck of choice for me, since I love the idea of the deck, and I already got some pieces and 3 badlands/1 scrub (I have a BR reanimator).

So, regarding removal, I think a very interesting card is Lightning Axe. 5 damage for one red mana and you take down almost all threats in the format and even dump a scourge/lingering souls/therapy/ghast/crawler to the grave in the process. What do you guys think?

About another sideboard option to avoid GY hate, how about the new red guy from commander 2018? Varchild, betrayer of kjeldor, 2R for a 3/3, when he deals damage to the player, the player gets 1/1 soldier (that cant block and cant attack you) tokens equal to the damage taken. When Varchild dies, you get the tokens!

Im having a hard time against eldrazi and burn atm!

Cheers!

[maCHOOga]

Lastes results with zombardment

1)
I 5-2'ed in the Legacy Challenge and got 17th with this deck

2)
Also I just brewed a little with Squee's and made a Legacy Leaque 5-0 the 7 august with this deck
ReneRandrup

I saw your lists posted yesterday. Well done! One day I'll get the courage/time to play in MTGO leagues again *sigh*. Anyway.... urborg justice is awesome, I didn't realize that card existed. Phyrexian altar + gravecrawler + 1 Bridge = Infinite zombies correct?

Moving forward I definitely will try your build, as it seems awesome. I just need to wait for bridges to drop on MTGO, thanks BR vengevine. :-)

[ReneRandrup]

I saw your lists posted yesterday. Well done! One day I'll get the courage/time to play in MTGO leagues again *sigh*. Anyway.... urborg justice is awesome, I didn't realize that card existed. Phyrexian altar + gravecrawler + 1 Bridge = Infinite zombies correct?

Moving forward I definitely will try your build, as it seems awesome. I just need to wait for bridges to drop on MTGO, thanks BR vengevine. :-)

Yup ... infinite zombies AND mana

[coff33bit]

Here's another list I 5-0 with on the 2 august 2018

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1249857#paper

Played against
1) 4 color control with conterbalance 2-1
2) BUG Delver 2-1
3) Eldrazi 2-0
4) 4 color control 2-0
5) Sneak and show 2-0

I for sure prefer Black/Red (splash for green) builds and with entomb and bridges over white and Lingering souls.

Its way more explosive and allows some fast kills. I actually consider entomb the best card in the deck ... there are so many targets for it, but mostly its for bridge and that starts the snowball of zombies. I actually have both turn 3 and 4 kills with the deck.

Also bridge can turn any creature sac into a zombie and that is so powerfull. It dont even have to be a zombie to begin with. That opens up for including non-zombie creatures in the deck and in this build I play 2 Dark confidant and 1 Grim Lavamancer.

For fun I have testet 1 Pyrexian Altar over the third Bombarment and so far it has been good.

When playing with entomb/bridge u really have to know the deck and its triggers/interaction very well.

There have been many very close games and it was the small things that pulled the win though.

I am thinking of making some replay videos if anybody is interested.

They will be uploade on my youtube channel then ... where there actually are more older videos of zombie games since I have actually been playing/brewing zombies on/off for the last couple of years.

ReneRandrup

If you are running an Entomb package, have you ever considered Vengeful Pharaoh in the 75?

[ReneRandrup]

If you are running an Entomb package, have you ever considered Vengeful Pharaoh in the 75?

Yup. Played it for at while, but didnt like it to much. You have to take a hit and opp can play around it by attacking with weaker creature.

[coff33bit]

Yup ... infinite zombies AND mana

Or infinite damage with Gravecrawler + Bombardment + Alter if I'm not mistaken (provided you have a second zombie in play)?

[coff33bit]

ReneRandrup, how critical is the Chains in the SB? I unfortunately sold my copy in order to re-buy the dual lands I needed to put Zombardment back together. Any thoughts on a replacement?

[ReneRandrup]

ReneRandrup, how critical is the Chains in the SB? I unfortunately sold my copy in order to re-buy the dual lands I needed to put Zombardment back together. Any thoughts on a replacement?

They are for cantripsdecks. U could play choke.

[Qweerios]

I tested a single Silent Gravestone as my 4th GY hate SB card and it was pretty good. Against Grixis and Esper control it prevented my opponents from using Surgical and Snapcaster. It's not bad against Reanimator and Lands either. If you play green maybe Ground Seal is superior?

Unfortunately for me, I ended up playing against RiP-Helm combo (again!) and didn't put much of a fight this week. I also played against Sneak n Show and didn't know that 4 Cages were standard now so I sided out Abrade and lost.

@ReneRandrup

Squee the Immortal is interresting and gives us something to Entomb through RiP for instance. The fact that squee will never go away against Miracles is a huge grind advantage. How good is he outside of Miracles though? A 2/1 for 1RR is severely underwhelming by Legacy's standards and I find him difficult to justify when you could just Entomb for Souls instead. Perhaps as a SB card for those StP/RiP matchups where I take out Scourge?

[vieko]

Taken the list below to a couple of 4-1s

BRIDGEVINE BOMBARDMENT

18 MANA
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Badlands
3 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
2 Phyrexian Tower

1 MANA SACRIFICE
1 Phyrexian Altar

29 HORDE
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Walking Ballista
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Stitcher's Supplier
1 Squee, the Immortal

4 DRAW / DISCARD
4 Faithless Looting

8 TOKEN / DAMAGE
4 Bridge from Below
4 Goblin Bombardment


SIDEBOARD
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Sudden Demise
2 Surgical Extraction


It has been good! Squee is the real deal. Obviously: I've taken some of Rene's battle-tested list and mashed it with Modern's new graveyard monster. I've ran a couple of Hangarback Walkers instead of the Altar and the immortal goblin. This feels better :)

Playing it on paper tonight.... wish me luck!

[ReneRandrup]

I tested a single Silent Gravestone as my 4th GY hate SB card and it was pretty good. Against Grixis and Esper control it prevented my opponents from using Surgical and Snapcaster. It's not bad against Reanimator and Lands either. If you play green maybe Ground Seal is superior?

Unfortunately for me, I ended up playing against RiP-Helm combo (again!) and didn't put much of a fight this week. I also played against Sneak n Show and didn't know that 4 Cages were standard now so I sided out Abrade and lost.

@ReneRandrup

Squee the Immortal is interresting and gives us something to Entomb through RiP for instance. The fact that squee will never go away against Miracles is a huge grind advantage. How good is he outside of Miracles though? A 2/1 for 1RR is severely underwhelming by Legacy's standards and I find him difficult to justify when you could just Entomb for Souls instead. Perhaps as a SB card for those StP/RiP matchups where I take out Scourge?

Ground Seal may be fine ... yup I am not totally impressed by Squee ... it is slow ... only shine in grind matchup

[maCHOOga]

I was a slacker and didn't zombard last night, instead jammed the much more boring RB reanimator. Unfortunately I didn't buy my bridges before the price 6x'ed. Do'H.

That being said, I think that Vieko beat me to the punch. If RB Vengevine is terrorizing modern, this deck seems like it could be the turbo charged version somehow.

[Qweerios]

Living Dead Girl was already a thing before Zombardment. The VV list posted above is a combo deck. It is both slower and more vulnerable than all the other combo decks. Some of us brewed successful Living Dead Girl lists before eventually moving on to a more combo approach (Dredge-like decks) or adopting the fair approach that Zombardment offers. You need to be able to abuse the Cabal Therapy suite to its full potential in order for this type of deck to occupy a niche in the meta otherwise you end up with a bad GY combo deck.

I remember some of the strong components of my version and I also remember I stopped playing it when they printed Cage and it was all the rage. Here's what it looked like:

4 Gravecrawler, 4 Bloodghast, and 4 Vengevine as the recursion engine

4 Deathrite Shaman -> now 4 Stitcher's Supplier, and 4 Dark Rituals for explosive starts. Of course Shaman was great for those T2 Burid Alive.

3-4 Carrion Feeder to abuse recursion and enable Crawler recursion. CMC1 zombies are great at enabling VV

3-4 Putrid Imp as another CMC1 zombie that dumps drawn VV and Ghasts

4 Buried Alive as the main way to get 3 VV or 2 VV + 1 Crawler or 3 Ghasts in the yard.

4 Thoughtseize and 4 Cabal Therapy for basic disruption

18 lands (3 Bayou, 3 Swamp, 11 Fetch, 1 Paradise)

4 flex slots that I chose to fill with Dark Confidant the time. Could be Entomb too.

The deck had a sweet 4 Liliana, 4 Decay SB plan. I think it would be possible to incorporate the staple red cards of Zombardment (Looting and Bombardment). Dark Ritual and Buried Alive were a big component of what made the deck explosive. It was easy to explode in so many directions with a T1 Ritual:

-T1 Buried Alive for 3 VV or 3 Ghasts and T2 2x creatures
-T1 TS, Therapy, Imp. T2 discard VV/Ghast, play Crawler, flashback Therapy, play Crawler trigger VV
-T1 Imp, Feeder, discard VV, Crawler, Trigger VV, swing
-T1 Buried for 2 VV 1 Crawler, T2 Zombie + Crawler, 2 VV swing
-T1 TS + Bob
-T1 Imp, discard VV, Bob, swing
-T1 Liliana postboard and ride it from there

Deck was cold to Leyline but could handle RiP and Cage just fine. Of course you want to avoid red cards when playing Ritual but there might be a good middle ground. Personally I still prefer Zombardment with Souls because I believe Souls have ridiculous potential in the current meta and the Bombardment + Zombie shell has some room for personalization.

[vieko]

Living Dead Girl was already a thing before Zombardment

Cool! The list runs pretty fast and feels solid to me.

I went 2-2 on paper:

2-1 vs Elves
2-0 vs D&T
0-2 vs Lands (close G1)
1-2 vs Burn (very close G1 and G3)

The many triggers, angles and possible lines is what I love about these lists. I'm certain that a pilot with more experience (looking at you Rene) would absolutely crush with it. I'm gonna keep running it for a few weeks as it was a TON of fun.

[EtwasSteIne]

Hello there,

after a while I was able to participate in a paper tournament again. Yesterday a small and familiar competition with six players and five rounds of Legacy took place in Bremen, Germany. That was a debut in several kinds for me:

First time playing this lovely Zombardment deck!
First time playing aggro-control!
First time playing a multicolor deck with dual- and fetchlands!

My weapon of choice is the following 75:

// Maindeck
4 Stitcher's Supplier
2 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Dark Confidant
2 Gurmag Angler

3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Liliana, the Last Hope

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize

3 Swamp
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs


// SB
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Wear // Tear
1 Bitterblossom
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Sudden Demise


Here is a small report:

Match 1: Shardless BUG (my mate)

Game 1: I won the dice roll and got a strong hand with discard and business (Stitcher's Supplier). In my exile zone were all four Cabal Therapy when my opponent reached zero life.
Game 2: The value engine of Shardless Agent into Tarmogoyf was too strong for me. The thin end of the wedge was when I blocked his 4/5 Goyf with my Gurmag Angler and my opponent casts an instant to grow his green monster. I had two additional Spirit Token who should have helped blocking. My math mistake and two additional Goyfs finished me off.
Game 3: This game was very close. In the final boardstate I was at two life and controlled a Goblin Bombardment plus four creatures including Kambal, Consul of Allocation. My opponent was at six life and forced to cast the Ancestral Vision he suspended a few turns ago.


Match 2: Goblin

Game 1: This game I was on the draw but lucky enough to dodge a turn one Goblin Lackey. A few zombies and a turn two Goblin Bombardment lived up its name.
Game 2: The second game was basically the same. The bombardment of goblins began turn two once again.


Match 3: Storm: ANT

Game 1: My first discard-spell felt appart to Duress but fortunately I topdecked Thoughtseize. Yet my clock seemed too slow but my opponent fizzlet in his combo. Not sure if there was a winning line for him... this victory felt undeserved.
Game 2: All I remember is a few mulligans on the other side of the table.


Match 4: MUD

Game 1: I was afraid of a turn one Chalice of the Void but my Cabal Therapy missed. Multiple discards wrecked his hand and I was able to grind for the win.
Game 2: My opponent started the second game with a Leyline of the Void in play. Nevertheless my zombies had a good aggro start and pushed the artifact-player to six life until two Wurmcoil Engine and a Sorcerous Spyglass on Goblin Bombardment turned things around. One Wear // Tear was milled away by Stitcher's Supplier and the turn before I drew the second one a Wasteland demolished my only red source.
Game 3: Again this was a very grindy game with the better ending for me. My allstar "never-board-me-out" Cabal Therapy hit two Ugin, the Spirit Dragon right before the legendary Planeswalker could enter the battlefield.


Match 5: Combo: ANT

Game 1: My opponent got a safe win despite a few discard-spells.
Game 2: Again the fortune was on my side: The combo player found himself constrained to mull to four cards. My blind Cabal Therapy discards 50% of that hand: Two Brainstorm. A Tidehollow Sculler fresh out of the board sealed the deal for me.
Game 3: The final game of the day both competitors saw worthy staring hands. We exchanged our discards-interaction and thankfully he did not topdeck his outs for a few turns.


Final result: 5-0-0

Summary:

Familiar and friendly atmosphere with competitive Legacy
Divers meta with combo, aggro, midrange and chalice
Cabal Therapy is a hell of a card in this deck!
Even though this pile might not be tier 1: Zombardment is incredible fun to play. There is so much to learn for me with this deck. All those gimmicks and possibilities to grind out games.
Very happy about my first tournament victory! :-)


Deck discussion:


Two Dark Confidant and two Gurmag Angler are dangerous but both cards peformed very well.
I swapped two Abrade out of the 75 in favor of Liliana, the Last Hope main. Two mana creature/artifact-removal was disappointing in testing. Even though there is no preboard answer for Chalice of the Void (except for turn one discard on the play). LtLH has strong synergies with the deck and is powerful versus Baleful Strix, Death and Taxed, Infect and Elves.
With my limited access of experience I cannot see dropping white for green in this deck. Lingering Souls and half of my sideboard is white: Tidehollow Sculler, Wear // Tear, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Zealous Persecution.
I will test Bridge from Below and Entomb. How good is the Phyrexian Altar in this scenario?
What do you guys think about Liliana, the Last Hope and Liliana of the Veil? Are those cc3 cards good enough?
Creature removal (Fatal Push, Diabolic Edict, Tragic Slip) might be good in some circumstances. At least today I did not miss those one-for-one cards. Maybe versus Delver they are mandatory.

Feel free to comment my cards-choices. :-)

Greetings
Stephan

[Qweerios]

...

Final result: 5-0-0

Summary:

Familiar and friendly atmosphere with competitive Legacy
Divers meta with combo, aggro, midrange and chalice
Cabal Therapy is a hell of a card in this deck!
Even though this pile might not be tier 1: Zombardment is incredible fun to play. There is so much to learn for me with this deck. All those gimmicks and possibilities to grind out games.
Very happy about my first tournament victory! :-)


Deck discussion:


Two Dark Confidant and two Gurmag Angler are dangerous but both cards peformed very well.
I swapped two Abrade out of the 75 in favor of Liliana, the Last Hope main. Two mana creature/artifact-removal was disappointing in testing. Even though there is no preboard answer for Chalice of the Void (except for turn one discard on the play). LtLH has strong synergies with the deck and is powerful versus Baleful Strix, Death and Taxed, Infect and Elves.
With my limited access of experience I cannot see dropping white for green in this deck. Lingering Souls and half of my sideboard is white: Tidehollow Sculler, Wear // Tear, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Zealous Persecution.
I will test Bridge from Below and Entomb. How good is the Phyrexian Altar in this scenario?
What do you guys think about Liliana, the Last Hope and Liliana of the Veil? Are those cc3 cards good enough?
Creature removal (Fatal Push, Diabolic Edict, Tragic Slip) might be good in some circumstances. At least today I did not miss those one-for-one cards. Maybe versus Delver they are mandatory.

Feel free to comment my cards-choices. :-)

Greetings
Stephan

Nice going on your first tournament! Even though the sample was small, a 5-0 finnish is always good! However, I think you got incredibly lucky in some aspects concerning those matchups. Shardless bug is practically a bye for us but having Storm fall flat on their face so much is uncommon. Dodging Chalice G1 and avoiding Chalice + Leyline G2-3 is uncommon for 3 games as well. T2 Bombardment every game against no T1 Lackey/Cage will make the matchup look completely in our favor. The thing is that their odds of getting their strong t1 plays are greater than our odds of setting up bombardment t2 and those games tend to spiral out of control.

About Liliana, I think Hope is win-more and I fear you are overestimating her. Strix decks are essentially byes for us, especially G1 which is where Hope shines the most... Against DnT she costs up to 4 mana at sorcery speed and doesn't answer the problematic cards (BSK, Jitte, Crusader). Against Infect she is a T3 sorcery targeted removal (won't hit nexus)... Infect has T2-3 kills with Daze/Pierce backup. Again, Elves is a T3 combo deck and a sorcery cmc3 darkblast won't cut it there either. I play Abrade because my meta has Eldrazi, red stompy, and artifact stompy decks where I need more than 3 Wear effects postboard for Chalice + the occasional Leyline coming from them. There are also many Blade decks and DnT decks with 4 SFM and postboard RiP that can't go unchecked. The main strength of Abrade pre-board is not how the card acts in a vacuum (aka: bad bolt vs. Delver or miser 2-of against artifact decks), but how it sets you up with a bulletproof SB plan against a wide range of matchups.

I agree with you about the white splash > green. I tried brewing with Decay > Souls over the week and couldn't figure out an acceptable list without Wear in the SB. There is a lot to be said about a cmc1 enchantment removal spell that can destroy artifacts at cmc2... Leylines and Chalices simply must be addressed. Everything else white I managed to cut into but nothing compares to Wear. Also, Abrade is arguably superior to Decay in a substancial amount of matchups and Lingering Souls fill a key role even as a 2-3of.

Concerning CMC3 SB cards, I've found Veil and Ensnaring Bridge to be the main worthwhile ones. I am a big fan of Liliana because the card is a plan of its own when we are slowed down by hate cards. She comes in almost everywhere and has the ability to take over various types of decks while allowing us not to fall too far behind when we hit a road block. Bridge is narrower but highly effective against the few shaky matchups it comes in against (Eldrazi, Reanimator, SnT, Lands, Depths, even Delver/Gurmag).

Cheap creature removal is key against cheap creatures and creature centric decks. DnT, Infect, Goblins and Delver decks are prime examples. Thalia, Mom, Revoker, all of the infecters, Lackey, Shooter, Chieftain, Warchief Krenko, Delver, Shadow, Pyromancer, etc are all cards that, if they go unchecked, can easily prompt a game loss. Cards like KotR and Ooze from Maverick or TKS from Eldrazi often need an answer as well.

Again, congrats on your wins and I hope I didn't sound too negative in my analysis/opinion. My goal is to optimize Zombardment and make it competitive so I take in all the feedback possible.

Also, I am currently sitting on an optimized list with no flex slots in the 75. I am currently trying to squeeze 1-2 Ensnaring Bridges in the SB but it is proving to be quite the challenge. I incorporated some components of Rene's Bridge/Entomb list into my own Abrade list and adopted one of MD.Ghost's SB tech that really fixed my SB map. I can't wait to take it out for a test run!

[johncarvalho]

Also, I am currently sitting on an optimized list with no flex slots in the 75. I am currently trying to squeeze 1-2 Ensnaring Bridges in the SB but it is proving to be quite the challenge. I incorporated some components of Rene's Bridge/Entomb list into my own Abrade list and adopted one of MD.Ghost's SB tech that really fixed my SB map. I can't wait to take it out for a test run!
Very curious about that list! I cant see a SB without 2-3 ensnaring bridges as my meta is full of eldrazi lists, its a terrible MU!

[Qweerios]

Very curious about that list! I cant see a SB without 2-3 ensnaring bridges as my meta is full of eldrazi lists, its a terrible MU!

Here's the list I've been working on:

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

2 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
2 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment
1 Bridge from Below

1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
1 Darkblast
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Liliana of the Veil


Right now my Eldrazi plan is:
-4 TS -4 Therapy -3 Bombardment
+3 Push +3 Wear +3 Liliana +2 EE

The idea is to make sure you can easily answer Chalice and Leyline then set up a degenerate Bridge or Scourge play and take it over from there.

If I were to include a few bridges I would probably take out Darkblast and a Liliana.

[johncarvalho]

Here's the list I've been working on:

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

2 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
2 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment
1 Bridge from Below

1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
1 Darkblast
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Liliana of the Veil


Right now my Eldrazi plan is:
-4 TS -4 Therapy -3 Bombardment
+3 Push +3 Wear +3 Liliana +2 EE

The idea is to make sure you can easily answer Chalice and Leyline then set up a degenerate Bridge or Scourge play and take it over from there.

If I were to include a few bridges I would probably take out Darkblast and a Liliana.

Nice one, looks solid! I dont have bridges/explosives unfortunately.

Im playing almost the same list, except 2 rotting rats, 1 scourge, 1 angler, 2 lingering souls and the 4th feeder, replacing the abrades, entombs and and bridge from your list!

SB is a couple innocent bloods and surgicals, silent gravestone, some bridges, lilianas, abrades and wear/tear!

[maCHOOga]

So I started experimenting with the Entomb package yesterday. I was shocked at how many lines of play there by simply adding that card. I definitely had multiple points where I didn't know what the correct entomb target was.

-Dakmor Salvage is pretty intuitive, if you are short a land drop or if you need to trigger bloodghasts.
-Bridge from Below for the go-wide aspect
-Gravecrawler to cast it from the graveyard
-Bloodghast with a land drop to return it to play
-Faithless looting for card filtering.
-Scourge of Nel Toth to go big and evasive.
-Lingering souls for blockers

So which is the best line and worst lines from peoples experience?
Also, has anyone toyed with Judgment Incarnation cycle (Anger, Filth) to give evasion or haste? It might be win-more, but swampwalking past a TNN or a DeathShadow doesn't sound that crazy.

Speaking of which, how is the death shadow matchup? How do you board?

[Qweerios]

So I took my latest list for a spin to a weekly 4 round tournament of 30 players. I couldn't get my hands on a Bridge from Below so I played a 3rd Lingering Souls instead. I ended up taking 1st place. Here's the list and a brief report:

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

2 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Liliana of the Veil


R1 2-0 vs. Mardu Midrange

G1 There isn't much Mardu can do against us as we both try to abuse our GY for value except that we do it better...

Out: 4 TS, 4 Therapy
In: 3 Push, 3 Wear, 2 EE

G2 He was banking on 3 Leyline of the Void postboard and didn't hit them.

R2 2-1 vs. Steel Stompy

Out: 4 TS, 4 Therapy, 4 Entomb
In: 3 Push, 3 Wear, 2 EE, 2 Bridge, 2 Liliana

G1 he opens up with T1 Chalice backed up by Welding Jar. I scoop.

G2 I open with a zombie while he lands a Chalice followed by Opal, Overseer and Ballista. I figured my only out at this point was to point my Abrade at the Overseer EOT and pray I draw an Explosives for the blowout. Topdeck EE like a thief and steal the game.

G3 I mull to 5 to find a 2 lander with Abrade and 2 Push. He has a T0 Leyline and opens with a Thorn followed by 3 Ballistas that each get removed. I draw a Wear for Leyline and he Wastes me while beating me down with a 4/4 Ravager. I stabilize with Bombardment, 2 Crawlers and a Bloodghast against his empty board.

R3 2-1 vs. Burn

G1 I get a tripple hit on Flame rift with Therapy and barely clock him out because he thought Ghasts could block...

Out: 4 TS, 1 Souls
In: 3 Push, 2 Liliana

G2 I get an aggreasive Feeder opener and take him out with Bombardment and 3 Ghasts while he's holding a Bolt and I am at 4 life. A terrible matchup overall. A lot of luck G1 and some good Pushes go a long way.

R4 2-0 vs. UWr Stoneblade

G1 I shred his hand on T3, Abrade his Jitte and ride Bombardment.

Out: 4 TS, 3 Therapy, 1 Scourge, 1 Badlands
In: 3 Wear, 2 EE, 2 Bridge, 2 Liliana

G2 I grind him out with Ghast, Souls and Bombardment. He has no RiP in his board so the matchup is much easier against 3 Surgical + Snaps. TNN never gets to attack...

I also played some friendlies inbetween rounds and went 1-1 pre-board against Burn and 2-0 postboard against UW RiP-Helm.

In summation:

-EE was MVP against all of the cards/decks that I usually struggle with (RiP, Cage, Chalice, CB, Empty the Warrens, Jitte, and so much more!)
-Bridge from Below was not necessary at any point but I am certain could help tremendously against Burn and against Steel Stompy pre-board.
-Ensnaring Bridges were not needed all night but I am sure the day will come where I will be really happy to have them against the common Eldrazi, Sneak n Show, Turbo Depths/Lands, and even Reanimator. Today, however, I would have preferred a 3rd Liliana and even a 3rd EE instead.
-I came close to being cut off white against Steel Stompy. I didn't care because I don't need much white at all but perhaps a 3rd Scrubland is in order? Most likely not...

[EtwasSteIne]

Nice going on your first tournament! Even though the sample was small, a 5-0 finnish is always good! However, I think you got incredibly lucky in some aspects concerning those matchups. Shardless bug is practically a bye for us but having Storm fall flat on their face so much is uncommon. Dodging Chalice G1 and avoiding Chalice + Leyline G2-3 is uncommon for 3 games as well. T2 Bombardment every game against no T1 Lackey/Cage will make the matchup look completely in our favor. The thing is that their odds of getting their strong t1 plays are greater than our odds of setting up bombardment t2 and those games tend to spiral out of control.

About Liliana, I think Hope is win-more and I fear you are overestimating her. Strix decks are essentially byes for us, especially G1 which is where Hope shines the most... Against DnT she costs up to 4 mana at sorcery speed and doesn't answer the problematic cards (BSK, Jitte, Crusader). Against Infect she is a T3 sorcery targeted removal (won't hit nexus)... Infect has T2-3 kills with Daze/Pierce backup. Again, Elves is a T3 combo deck and a sorcery cmc3 darkblast won't cut it there either. I play Abrade because my meta has Eldrazi, red stompy, and artifact stompy decks where I need more than 3 Wear effects postboard for Chalice + the occasional Leyline coming from them. There are also many Blade decks and DnT decks with 4 SFM and postboard RiP that can't go unchecked. The main strength of Abrade pre-board is not how the card acts in a vacuum (aka: bad bolt vs. Delver or miser 2-of against artifact decks), but how it sets you up with a bulletproof SB plan against a wide range of matchups.

I agree with you about the white splash > green. I tried brewing with Decay > Souls over the week and couldn't figure out an acceptable list without Wear in the SB. There is a lot to be said about a cmc1 enchantment removal spell that can destroy artifacts at cmc2... Leylines and Chalices simply must be addressed. Everything else white I managed to cut into but nothing compares to Wear. Also, Abrade is arguably superior to Decay in a substancial amount of matchups and Lingering Souls fill a key role even as a 2-3of.

Concerning CMC3 SB cards, I've found Veil and Ensnaring Bridge to be the main worthwhile ones. I am a big fan of Liliana because the card is a plan of its own when we are slowed down by hate cards. She comes in almost everywhere and has the ability to take over various types of decks while allowing us not to fall too far behind when we hit a road block. Bridge is narrower but highly effective against the few shaky matchups it comes in against (Eldrazi, Reanimator, SnT, Lands, Depths, even Delver/Gurmag).

Cheap creature removal is key against cheap creatures and creature centric decks. DnT, Infect, Goblins and Delver decks are prime examples. Thalia, Mom, Revoker, all of the infecters, Lackey, Shooter, Chieftain, Warchief Krenko, Delver, Shadow, Pyromancer, etc are all cards that, if they go unchecked, can easily prompt a game loss. Cards like KotR and Ooze from Maverick or TKS from Eldrazi often need an answer as well.

Again, congrats on your wins and I hope I didn't sound too negative in my analysis/opinion. My goal is to optimize Zombardment and make it competitive so I take in all the feedback possible.

Also, I am currently sitting on an optimized list with no flex slots in the 75. I am currently trying to squeeze 1-2 Ensnaring Bridges in the SB but it is proving to be quite the challenge. I incorporated some components of Rene's Bridge/Entomb list into my own Abrade list and adopted one of MD.Ghost's SB tech that really fixed my SB map. I can't wait to take it out for a test run!

Thanks for the Feedback. I appreciate that. I think that Zombardment benefits from it's rogue-factor. Some players might not know deck or archetype at all. But you are right, I was lucky to win those close games. Nevertheless every player needs some kind of luck to win games.

Maybe LtLH is win-more. The DnT-matchup seems pretty bad even though I still like LtLH in there. Do we need Dread of Night to win this?! My idea as a basic principal about Liliana, the Last Hope, Dark Confidant, Gurmag Angler and Bitterblossom is to add cards that are incredible powerful on it's own. This should increase our topdecks at the expense of synergy and explosiveness.



So I took my latest list for a spin to a weekly 4 round tournament of 30 players. I couldn't get my hands on a Bridge from Below so I played a 3rd Lingering Souls instead. I ended up taking 1st place. Here's the list and a brief report:

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

2 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Liliana of the Veil


R1 2-0 vs. Mardu Midrange

G1 There isn't much Mardu can do against us as we both try to abuse our GY for value except that we do it better...

Out: 4 TS, 4 Therapy
In: 3 Push, 3 Wear, 2 EE

G2 He was banking on 3 Leyline of the Void postboard and didn't hit them.

R2 2-1 vs. Steel Stompy

Out: 4 TS, 4 Therapy, 4 Entomb
In: 3 Push, 3 Wear, 2 EE, 2 Bridge, 2 Liliana

G1 he opens up with T1 Chalice backed up by Welding Jar. I scoop.

G2 I open with a zombie while he lands a Chalice followed by Opal, Overseer and Ballista. I figured my only out at this point was to point my Abrade at the Overseer EOT and pray I draw an Explosives for the blowout. Topdeck EE like a thief and steal the game.

G3 I mull to 5 to find a 2 lander with Abrade and 2 Push. He has a T0 Leyline and opens with a Thorn followed by 3 Ballistas that each get removed. I draw a Wear for Leyline and he Wastes me while beating me down with a 4/4 Ravager. I stabilize with Bombardment, 2 Crawlers and a Bloodghast against his empty board.

R3 2-1 vs. Burn

G1 I get a tripple hit on Flame rift with Therapy and barely clock him out because he thought Ghasts could block...

Out: 4 TS, 1 Souls
In: 3 Push, 2 Liliana

G2 I get an aggreasive Feeder opener and take him out with Bombardment and 3 Ghasts while he's holding a Bolt and I am at 4 life. A terrible matchup overall. A lot of luck G1 and some good Pushes go a long way.

R4 2-0 vs. UWr Stoneblade

G1 I shred his hand on T3, Abrade his Jitte and ride Bombardment.

Out: 4 TS, 3 Therapy, 1 Scourge, 1 Badlands
In: 3 Wear, 2 EE, 2 Bridge, 2 Liliana

G2 I grind him out with Ghast, Souls and Bombardment. He has no RiP in his board so the matchup is much easier against 3 Surgical + Snaps. TNN never gets to attack...

I also played some friendlies inbetween rounds and went 1-1 pre-board against Burn and 2-0 postboard against UW RiP-Helm.

In summation:

-EE was MVP against all of the cards/decks that I usually struggle with (RiP, Cage, Chalice, CB, Empty the Warrens, Jitte, and so much more!)
-Bridge from Below was not necessary at any point but I am certain could help tremendously against Burn and against Steel Stompy pre-board.
-Ensnaring Bridges were not needed all night but I am sure the day will come where I will be really happy to have them against the common Eldrazi, Sneak n Show, Turbo Depths/Lands, and even Reanimator. Today, however, I would have preferred a 3rd Liliana and even a 3rd EE instead.
-I came close to being cut off white against Steel Stompy. I didn't care because I don't need much white at all but perhaps a 3rd Scrubland is in order? Most likely not...

Congratulations on your victory! Also thanks for the effort you put in here. To begin with: I really like 90% of your decklist!

Maybe the forth Badlands is of value.
Engineered Explosives was my 16. sideboard-card in mind, I'm happy it performed well for you!
Three Fatal Push might improve half of our matchups.

Thinks I'd like to question:

Starting with the most important topic: I really like our discard spells especially in game two and three. I don't board (all of them) out in order to pick up hatecards like Rest in Peace or Equipment.
I don't think Abrade is good enough for a maindeck card but that might be a meta call (Chalice of the Void)
For me Lingering Souls is too good to not use the playset.
With Wasteland in the format and Stitcher's Supplier in our own deck a third Scrubland feels saver for me.
In a meta full of Brainstorm what do you think about Kambal, Consul of Allocation in the board?
What is your opinion on Dark Confidant, Gurmag Angler and Bitterblossom?


Again thanks for sharing that tournament report! :-)

[jugglervr]

So I started experimenting with the Entomb package yesterday.

....

So which is the best line and worst lines from peoples experience?
Also, has anyone toyed with Judgment Incarnation cycle (Anger, Filth) to give evasion or haste? It might be win-more, but swampwalking past a TNN or a DeathShadow doesn't sound that crazy.

Speaking of which, how is the death shadow matchup? How do you board?

I'm including one Haunted Dead to let me start gravecrawler from zero more easily.

Anger could be cute with Scourge. Bloodghasts turn on haste eventually though and i don't know if g-wide decks really need haste that badly in general. Filth in SB could be cute.

I haven't played against DS yet but it sounds really winnable. Block with souls and throw them at face. Important to not do the shadow player's job too early. Make them ding themselves down to 5 and then go ham with hasty ghasts and bombardments.

[Qweerios]

@maCHOOga,

1st: Entomb's best use is as the best form of Bloodghast. Ghast as a card is better in your GY than your hand because it only costs a land drop to cast from there. Entomb costs half of Ghast. This play allows more Bombardment abuse, Feeder abuse, and most importantly enables Therapy flashback very early.

2nd: Entomb as additional discard is crucial when maximizing interaction G1 against various decks that may have hard to interact plans or key disruption pieces.

3rd: Entomb to go over the top. Usually this takes the form of a T3+ Entomb for Bridge or Scourge. One of the best ways to go over the top is also to Entomb for more Ghasts.

4th: Entomb for Souls is usually a desperation move. You either can't find a way to build a board or you are under pressure and need blockers.

The other uses for Entomb are mostly fringe like grabing a Faithless in a stall game when you need to dig in order to get rid of lock pieces for example. Gravecrawler is rarely a target because Ghast is usually the cheaper and faster recursion dork for most intents and purposes. This doesn't mean Entombing for Crawler and Looting isn't good or optimal, they are just not the main reasons to play Entomb.

The incarnations are extreme corner cases and just plain suck in general... Even Glory has no place. I've pretty much tried all the possible Entomb targets (Volcanic Spray, Coffin Purge, Grudge and Ray of Revelation, Darkblast and Loam, even weird flashback gain life cards...) and they are, for the most part, too narrow and/or underwhelming even for the SB. Purpose #1-3 are enough to justify a full set IMO. Don't get me wrong, Grudge and Darkblast are good cards and an Entomb package makes them more availlable. However, when compared to EE, Wear, Push and Liliana, they are not comparable in terms of matchup applicability and impact.

I haven't had a chance to test against Death's Shadow (even though I've been meaning to) but I honestly believe it is a very favorable Delver matchup if we don't get Wasted out of the game. I know I have Push, EE, and Liliana postboard and it should be a walk in the park.

@EtwasSteIn,

I think DnT is one of our best matchups! There is no way they can fight an active Bombardment and their GY hate is quite limited. I am happy to play the fair game against them too because our deck is so much more tempo efficient and we have strong answers to all of their major plays (Jitte, BSK, RiP, Crusader). My DnT opponents usually squirm in their seat with discomfort. My SB plan is something like this:

-4 TS -3 Therapy -1 Scourge
+3 Push +3 Wear +2 EE (used to be Zealous Persecution/Sudden Death)

Between 2 Abrade, 3 Push, 3 Wear and 2 EE there aren't many haymakers that stick on their side. No need for Dread. I'd even shove a 3rd EE in there if I could and they wouldn't have an ounce of a chance.

Badlands is the best land to produce red with and red is essential to the deck. If I could justify a single Mountain I would drop the 4th Badlands but as it is, Mountain isn't worth a damn. With Supplier and Looting you will often have to bin a Badlands (or more!) and it could prove fatal against a 4x Wasteland deck. A smart opponent will aim their Wastelands at Badlands always because losing white is not a problem. With only 3 Badlands, if you bin one and eat 2 Wastelands, you are now cut off red.

Concerning discard, I believe discard is amazing as a G1 plan and terrible against decks that generate a board position G2-3. G1 discard is like FoW, it is fast, it interacts with nearly anything and everything, and it gives us a fighting chance against Combo decks. The main downside to discard is also it's biggest flaw: you pay mana and lose cards to remove cards that haven't been paid for, and once those cards have been paid for you can't interact with them anymore. Discard spells are all tempo-negative and do not offer any comeback potential. Discarding a card appears to be the best way to deal with it but in reality it is not. If your goal is to deal with a card, removing it is by far superior to discarding it in most cases because it is a relevant play at any stage. I preffer being prepared for likely scenarios than to hope for unlikely ones. This is why my SB plans for almost every non-combo decks involve replacing 7-8 discard spells. I only keep a single Therapy as an Entomb target when I know I will be up against something like Stoneforge Mystic.

Perhaps you are correct about Abrade as a meta call. Then again, everything is a meta call when you think about it. :P Abrade is a strange card but it plays a key role in the deck. Mainly, Abrade gives you outs G1 to cards/decks that don't expect to be answered G1 like Chalice, Jitte and BSK. The other big reason to play Abrade that isn't obvious is that it enables a critical mass of removal for creatures and artifacts G2-3 when combined with the SB. Having redundant and various answers to various problematic permanents is key when dealing with efficient cards and specific hate cards. If we can efficiently take control of the pace of a game, our synergy will do the rest.

Lingering Souls is an amazing card and the more you have, the more you can comfortably Loot. The reality about Souls is that they are clunky. Multiple copies can get in the way and many Souls don't necessarily translate to a winning position. Many decks just don't care about them... I played 4 copies for a long time because I wanted to maximize my Loots and Suppliers but I realized that:

1st: Souls is not always a good play, therefore my deck doesn't get better by having Souls all the time, and
2nd: you don't need the full set against the decks where Souls shine, so 2-3 copies is often all you truly need.

I would play a 3rd Scrubland as my 21st land. The reason why I opted for 2 is because I honestly don't care if I get cut off. As I mentionned earlier, I am happier that my opponent fires their Waste at my Scrubs than my Baddies anyway. The only white cards I have are a few Souls mainboard that I can easily dump and cast with black mana, and the Enchantment half of Wear. The decks that pack Wasteland don't generally have key enchantments to remove later in the game and going up to 3 on EE is uncommon. There is always Paradise as a potential 3rd white source in a long game too!

Kambal is slow, vulerable and doesn't stop Brainstorm from being good. I would only consider him in a meta filled with Burn players.

Dark Confidant is simply great in any deck that can play him. He does it all: beat and grind! His drawback is easily mitigated by a sac outlet. I played 4 Bobs when I played zombie-less bombardment (4 DRS, 4 Pyro, 4 Entomb, 4 Bolts, 3 Decay list) and he was crucial in every game I played. With all the zombie synergy and the flashback Lootings, grinding is our strength. I simply don't have space to dedicate to non-synergy grind in the deck. I'd rather focus on better early plays, bigger synergy, and efficient answers with whatever flex slots I can muster by shaving to the bare minimum. I would play Bob in a different shell like something with more generic "good cards" like Decay, Blossoms, Young Pyro, and Liliana.

Gurmag Angler is very good in any Supplier/Looting deck. My original Supplier list played 3. The only reason I don't play him is that the cards in my deck are currently better than Gurmag. It may sound crazy but in a zombardment shell, Feeder is better at generating a clock and offers better support. Gurmag as a grindy resilient threat is not needed when you have a million recurring threats. Finally, Scourge is bigger, flies, and is way more accessible as an over-the-top finisher or board-staller. I don't need Gurmags for the same reasons I don't need additional Scourges.

Bitterblossom is narrow, slow, and a liability in certain matchups. Blossom makes us better at what we do best already: have recurring insignificant creatures constantly hit the battlefield. The main appeal to Blossom is that it doesn't care about GY hate and it is difficult to remove. I can see Blossoms shine against Miracles and all flavors of Grixis Control decks. Given that Grixis is a legit 80-20 matchup in our favor and that Miracles isn't a bad matchup by any stretch (possibly around 65-35), I don't see the use for Blossoms right now.

[maCHOOga]

@Queerios, Thanks for the feedback. I agree with shaving all/most of the discard in fair matchups. I also shave a lingering souls against heavy counterspell decks.

@ All
I played a slightly modified version of Queerios deck to a 5-0 finish in the weekly community league. I think I've found the point where I'm happy enough with the deck to start playing mtgo leagues. This has felt like the most streamlined version I've played to date. I completely underestimated the power of Scourge of Nel Toth. That card is stupid good in this deck with entombs.

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

2 Dismember*
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls
3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Dakmor Salvage**
9 Black Fetchlands
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
3 Swamp
//SB
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality ***
2 Cryptbreaker ****
3 Wear // Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Liliana of the Veil

Here is my reasoning:
* The "two" removal spots is a metagame call. I prefer dismember, but I definitely could see the argument for abrade.
** This turns entomb into a bad ramp spell if you need to hit a land drop. Also, it allows entomb to trigger bloodghasts. I just wish it was more than dredge 2.
*** The community league is a burn heavy metagame and this card is their worst nightmare. To add to it, discarding cards for more modes isn't really a disadvantage in this deck.
**** I borrowed this tech from the RB Reanimator PT deck. It avoids the graveyard and is great with E-bridge to control hand size. It's also a kill on sight card or it will spiral out of control. I was going to try Magus of the Moon in this spot but without mana accelerators, it seems very slow.

Matchups were:
1.) Monoblack Reanimator.
Cryptbreaker + Ensnaring Bridge enabled a 20 to 0 turn staring down a terastadon. It drew me +4 cards as they flounder to assemble a new reanimation target.
2.) UR WizardDelver (Swiss + Finals)
UR Delver with Wizards lightning. Nothing exciting except for cabal therapy being OP at buffering lifetotals. I did die to a sulfuric vortex because I missed 2 points of damage in a turn. Doh!
3.) Burn (Swiss + Semis)
Each time, I tore apart their hand and managed to close out the game quickly. I always blind therapy the highest damage spell being PoP or Fireblast.

[Qweerios]

@maCHOOga,

Good job on yet another good finish! It's good to see Zombardment players crush.

I really like Brutality against Burn. I think brutality is more of a mainboard card than a SB card as it doesn't do anything particularly well (other than wreck burn). I like my SB cards to give me an edge. Swapping Brutality with Dismember (or even Push) from the main/side would have been arguably a better meta call if you anticipate combo and burn. I would definitely play Brutality > Abrade if my meta had less SFM and Chalice decks and more Combo and Burn/UR Delver decks.

I don't think Dakmor is any good even with Entomb. In fact, I think it is absolutely horrible. The opportunity cost is very real (-1 fetch) and leads to bad openers and bad draws. I'd rather Entomb for Souls and flash it back rather than use an Entomb and lose a draw step fot a tapped nonbasic Swamp that triggers a few Ghasts.

Looking at the reasons why you play Cryptbreaker it seems like they also apply to Liliana. However, Liliana has many additional reasons to be chosen over Breaker. I suggest you check out all of the matchups where you want Breaker and see if Liliana is good instead. Then, check out all the other matchups that get improved by more Liliana. I love Breaker and I'm all for cheaper solutions. Sadly, I don't believe he is up there with Lily.

Do you mind expanding on Swamp#3? When I look at our deck, I want as many fetches as possible and as little non-fetches possible mainly for color availability and Bloodghast shenanigans. When it comes to non-fetches, we have: Utility lands, duals, and basics. If we are to operate on an optimal amount of lands (20-21) for a given curve (2 opener, 3 by T3), utility lands that don't produce colored mana (aka: can't cast spells) don't get to participate in our manabase calculations (they compete with spells instead). With that in mind, utility lands other than Paradise generally don't make the cut (Dakmore for instance). Duals cast the most spells and are vulnerable to certain land hate. Given that casting spells > being resistant to land hate that aims at preventing you from casting spells, it is more important to have an adequate dual base than basic base. Basics therefore occupy the slot of our residual fetchable lands that give us an edge against non-basic hate. All that basically boils down to:

Fetches > Duals > Basics > Colorless Utility Lands

First you start with an Undiscovered Paradise because it is a 5 color utility land with diminishing returns (can't play 2). I wouldn't play less than 10 fetches here as that translates to 1/6th of our deck therefore optimizing our chances of having exactly 1 fetch in a mulligan to 6. However, more fetches are better than more duals and basics. Then you need a healthy amount of red sources (3-4) and white sources (2-3) for a total of 6-7 duals. Finally it's up to how many basics you need to operate smoothly against non-basic hate. 1 Swamp casts everything non-red/white except Scourge, Ghast and Liliana. 2 Swamp casts everything non-red/white. Let's look at the most common reasons to play basics:

Wasteland: the most common nonbasic offender. Can be debilitating in multiples or combined with Loam. The more basics the better here as long as you have access to all the colors necessary to cast your spells. This usually means that the best way to play against non-Loam Wastelands with an optimal list is to power through by playing more duals than they play Wastes. By fetching basics you essentially allow Wasteland to cut you off your secondary colors while they reduce your land amount. By fetching multiple duals you protect certain colors and only end up being restricted on the land count. More than 2 basics are good against Loam. A basic Mountain makes more sense here.

Blood Moon/B2B: Blood Moon will give you red mana so the more swamps, the better against either of those cards. B2B can be dealt with and usually doesn't prevent you from casting spells. 2 Swamps is enough to operate under B2B and Moon. Additional basics makes them more availlable under Moon and overall decreases the value of an opposing Moon or B2B.

Price of Progress: I will always grab a Badlands against Burn as my first land and follow it up with 2 Swamps. By that point I don't need to make more land drops and the game has already taken a decisive form where I am either winning or losing. If I am winning, great, if I am losing, another Swamp over a dual usually won't dig me out. A basic Mountain makes more sense here.

For an open meta, most decks don't rely on non-basic hate so more fetches = more consistency and synergy. That alone is reason enough ro maximize fetches and minimize duals and basics. Against nonbasic hate, Wasteland is the most common and more duals and fetches are prefferable to more than 2 Swamp. As for Moon and B2B, you would indeed benefit slightly from more basics. Against PoP I just don't see the point... In the end you gain a marginal edge at the expense of a global edge.

[maCHOOga]

Played paper to a 2-0-1 finish last night as well with my weekly legacy event.

Two wins against death and taxes, they both fell into the "how do I ever beat this" camp. Board out discard for games 2 and 3 and seemed very easy matchup.

Draw with Sneak and Show. We played for glory and I lost the match in three games. I searched the conversations and didn't see much about sneak and show. I still feel like I overboarded, but not sure.
In: +2 Liliana, +2 Ensnaring Bridge, +3 Surgical, +2 Cryptbreaker
Out: -2 Dismember, -3 Lingering Souls, -3 Goblin Bombardment, -1 Scourge of Nel Toth

Basically all games played out the same... I tore apart their hand, if they drew brainstorm runner-runner, I died, if not I won. I also took a line where I entombed cabal therapy over a gravecrawler/bloodghast to take away an omniscience leaving them with nothing. The end result was I really couldn't establish a board presence fast enough to close out the game. I think I need to leave scourge in because it speeds the clock by a lot over the army of 2/1s. It's also why I brought in cryptbreaker, as it can snowball quickly and they are likely to bring in graphdiggers cage.

@Qweerios

After reading your reply, thinking about it and playing. I'm 100% on board with playing a fetch over the dakmoor salvage. Dredge 2 isn't enough to warrant it and the coming into play tapped is a cost.

As for the 2 v 3 swamps it all comes down to probability. We are playing the random variable of Stitcher's supplier of around 11% of our deck. I definitely had a scenario in the beginning where I milled over a scrubland, drew the 2nd and had it wastelanded; effectively cutting off white. At that point, I moved to the 3rd scrubland. The same argument can be applied to the 3rd basic swamp. But I can see the other case of play the 11th fetchland.

I still like cryptbreaker and will continue testing it, although its entirely possible that it moves out to make more sideboard slots available.

[Qweerios]

Against Sneak n Show I think Souls are better than Breaker. I sometimes keep 1 copy to Entomb for because Souls combined with a Feeder can blank Griselbrand long enough. I also bring in all my Wear postboard because their SB plan involves either 4x Leyline of Sanctity or 4x Grafdigger's Cage (standard). Wear also removes Sneak Attack when Liliana puts them in topdeck mode after a discard onslaught. Scourge and Breaker require too much setup for a clock. You can always try Bridge from Below as it is the fastest way to put up huge board presence. Personally I believe Crawler, Feeder and Ghast put up a great clock by themselves so I just care about disruption. Liliana is the nail in the coffin for me because SnT decks cannot go off in topdeck mode without Sneak Attack.

My SnT SB:
Out: 2 Abrade 2 Souls 3 Bombardment 1 Bridge 1 Scourge 1 Mountain
In: 1 Duress 3 Surgical 3 Wear 3 Liliana

Abrade goes back in G3 if I scout a full set of Cages or the new Artisan.

Now that I only play 2-3 Souls mainboard and EE > ZP, I really don't mind being cut off white. Just flashback a Looting or a late Therapy on yourself and you can cast Souls without white. Again, with Wear as the only white SB card, 2 Scrubs is enough.

After writing all this stuff about the manabase I realized that a basic Mountain over the 4 Badlands wasn't a bad idea. I goldfished some openers and really appreciated how I could easily operate entirely on basics. This line is great against Wasteland decks (mostly Delver) and Burn. Being able to completely blank Wasteland and PoP for your first 3 land drops can really make a difference. It also strengthens our game plan against Loam decks. All it took was to replace a Badlands with a Mountain (20 to 19 black sources) and a black fetch with an Arid Mesa (11 to 10 fetches for Swamp). Here's what I tested:

1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Mountain


I've also cut all Ensnaring Bridges from my SB because I find the card too narrow and passive. I added back the 3rd Liliana and threw in a Duress that fills some gaps I had against combo and Burn.

[jugglervr]

Did quite well in casual legacy jamming tonight. Sloppy report incoming

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Bloodghast
2 Gravecrawler
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Haunted Dead
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
4 Lingering Souls
1 Bridge from Below

3 Goblin Bombardment
1 Darkblast
2 Abrade

4 Faithless Looting
3 Entomb
2 Diabolic Intent

3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy

1 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Swamp
4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
11 black fetch

SB:
3 Wear and Tear
1 Umezawa's jitte
2 Urborg Justice
1 Backlash
1 Bitterblossom
1 Coffin Purge
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Dread of Night
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Zealous Persecution

Match 1: Rug Delver
Discard takes threats and I get there with time to spare, 2-0

Match 2: Sneak & Show
Discard takes the first match, Tear on Sneak Attack takes the second

Match 3: Goblins
G1 was a rout. Creature kill in the main is good. G2 had my zealous persecution cast too early and I let him lackey in a seige gang commander accidentally. G3 he RiPed too early, and I played above ground until I could tear it, and valuetown got there

Match 4: Dragon Stompy
g1 TS 3-ball, he rips chalice and I see only one land in 14 cards.
g2 was a good fight, and the incredible valuetown took it over
g3 he was land screwed so I took it.
g4 (i said it was casual!) his double chalice into rabblemaster closed it off
g5 early sin prodder into hazoret into chandra into rabblemaster. :(

One game vs miracles in which I mis-sequenced and let too much die to terminuses when I had bombardment in hand

one game vs bug rector fit where he drew no gas.

Abrade was good.
Sculler was quite good but could still be borderline. I included it as a way to start gravecrawler chains from nowhere but that didn't seem necessary
darkblast was instrumental in fighting early threats (delver, warren instigator)
3 bombardments felt weird. I never had it when I really wanted it (or i milled it), and I had 2 when I didn't want any.
Haunted dead was great as a jump-start for gravecrawler and a discard outlet/stall
Diabolic intent was very good at getting bullets that weren't graveyard-castable. 2 times I got lands with it vs wasteland decks.
Stitcher often milled stuff that was completely useless. Thinking an angler to diabolic intent for could be strong. I almost want it to be tombstalker since I only have 3 crawlers and have a few ways to jumpstart them.

[EtwasSteIne]

Greetings Zombie Throwers,

congrats on your results! Today was my second tournament with Zombardment in Hamburg, Germany. After the discussion here I played the following 75:

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Dark Confidant

2 Abrade
3 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
2 Badlands
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Wear // Tear
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Fatal Push
1 Sudden Demise


Match 1: Big Eldrazi
Game 1: This is the first and last game I started on the play. Early discard and a decent clock did the job.
Game 2: Early ramp Grim Monolith into Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger killed me without any chance.
Game 3: An average hand was enough for the win, because my opponent missed a few landdrops. Pretty happy to win this match against a very skilled player who played Zombardment a few years ago.

Match 2: W Gideon Control
Game 1: My second opponent played a unique mono white Gideon control deck with cards like Chalice of the Void, Wrath of God and Humility maindeck. I was able to discard some hate and win with a swarm of Zombies through a Humility. Carrion Feeder keep their +1/+1 counters and Goblin Bombardment does not care if the victim was 10/10 or 1/1!
Game 2: I answered two Rest in Peace but a growing Gideon was one more turn short to kill me. I topdecked a land in the last possible turn and was able to win with a hasty Bloodghast.

Match 3: UWB Stoneblade
Game 1: Three Zombies got plowshares until two True-name Nemesis slayed me. I was one turn short.
Game 2: I took a mulligan to six with one land and Faithless Looting, but in my top four cards there was no land. Nevertheless I was still in the game but lost a grindy game versus two Zealous Persecution and a Snapcaster Mage.

Match 4: Turbodepths
Game 1: My discard didn't stop a turn three Marit Lage. I was able to chumpblock her with Spirit token two times but my clock was too slow.
Game 2: I wrecked my opponents hand but from this desperate position he drew the perfect card three times in a row. Nothing to complain, no chance to win versus combo with those draws.

Match 5: Grixis Death Shadow
Game 1: I remember that this was a long and close game where Lingering Souls was key to win.
Game 2: The Grixis player started with a Leyline of the Void and played very aggressive with his own life. I had my Goblin Bombardment but could not find a creature from the top when he was at one life.
Game 3: Again I faced a turn zero Leyline of the Void but this time I was prepared: I smashed his Leyline with Wear // Tear and killed two Death Shadow's with an Engineered Explosive. My Liliana of the Veil took care of another Shadow and his Liliana, the Last Hope fall apart to my creatures.

Overall: 3-2 (8. place, 24 players)


Abstract
20 lands felt fragile even though I did not face Death and Taxes. Next time I will play 21 again.
Two Swamps are good enough and without Zealous Persecution two Scrubland are fine. Dragonskull Summit will be a Badlands or at least Blood Crypt soon. We need at least three fetchable red/black sources.
I did not cast Abrade but with all those Death and Taxes, Eldrazi and Chalice I will keep them main.
Gurmag Angler is a great card but I did not miss him today.
Engineered Explosive and Liliana of the Veil were good, Fatal Push was great. Maybe Tragic Slip might be even better. I will keep a cmc1 spot-removal.


TL;DR:
Zombardment is super fun and good enough for Legacy! Keep up testing for the flexible slots in this great deck :-)

Greetings Stephan

[Horto]

Why no love for Innocent Blood? Also, could one run this as more controllish version with Smallpox? Thou would be whole different beast then I quess.
Please share your insight, just about to pick missing cards.

[ReneRandrup]

Played this weeks Legacy Challenge with 84 players. Went 6-1 and made top 8 where I lost o Death’s Shadow.

Decklist at https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-20

Rene Randrup

[FFreak]

Played this weeks Legacy Challenge with 84 players. Went 6-1 and made top 8 where I lost o Death’s Shadow.

Decklist at https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-20

Rene Randrup

Ur oppoentn just told me he only had such a great luck against U :) Well done !

[DerRichter]

Played this weeks Legacy Challenge with 84 players. Went 6-1 and made top 8 where I lost o Death’s Shadow.

Decklist at https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-20

Rene Randrup

Hey Rene, loving your innovations and big props for your amazing results week after week.

Will there be any chance you'll start uploading some of your recent matches online? :)

[Qweerios]

@Rene,

It appears to me like the mtgo meta is seeing a wave of Death's Shadow as the main replacement for Grixis Delver. Perhaps Decay > Bob would be a good addition? I've always found we have good matchups against grindy decks and combo decks while we struggle against hyper-aggressive strategies and prison decks. Bob exacerbates this aspect while Decay mitigates it.

Why only 3 TS? Isn't it our best T1 play in the blind G1? Is it because of Bob? If so, why Bob over TS?

I see you are not a fan of Scourge and you seem to like having 2 Bridges. I think Bridge is clunky and that 1 copy always gets the job done. Scourge is an even more popular avenue for me because he gives me specifically everything I need to win certain matchups (mainly non-white control and Delver). I guess one could argue that they are functionally similar while Bridge has more explosive potential. One of the main appeal to Scourge IMO is the fact that it requires less/different setup than Bridge and therefore the split package is more versatile. What is your opinion on the matter?

Is Phyrexian Altar really good or mostly a fun-of? I have a hard time believing it's actually good for the functioning of the deck compared to a 3rd Bombardment for instance.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

[coff33bit]

@Rene,

Is Phyrexian Altar really good or mostly a fun-of? I have a hard time believing it's actually good for the functioning of the deck compared to a 3rd Bombardment for instance.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

I played around with Alter (and most of Rene's list) and I found that it is really nothing more than part of a 3 piece combo of Gravecrawler, Bridge, and Alter to make infinite zombies. While Rene's decks have put up results and I am not in love with the Alter combo and would rather have something like the 3rd bombardment, a Bitterblossom, or even a fatty (fish or Scourge). So in short, it's cute, can win the game very fast if needed, but is fragile IMO

[Qweerios]

I played the following list at a weekly 30 player 4 round tournament:

3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

2 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
//SB
1 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Engineered Explosives


Again, the shop was sold out of Bridge from Below so I played a 3rd Souls instead which is arguably better in some matchups. The room was LOADED with SFM decks... I saw Tundras left and right, Delver with SFM, Maverick, a DnT, Red Stompy and Eldrazi, a couple of Death's Shadow Delver, Dredge, and I am certain the usual Grixis/Czech/BUG Control guys were there too.

R1 0-2 vs. UW Stoneblade with Standstill, Mishra, and Wasteland

G1 I flood and he plays SFM into BSK with FoW and Pierce backup for Therapy and Abrade

In: 2 EE 3 Wear 3 Liliana
Out: 1 Scourge 4 TS 3 Therapy

G2 He has SFM into BSK with double Pierce and double FoW backup while I am stuck on 2 mana the entire game. Looting gets Pierced, Therapy get's Forced, EE gets Pierced and Wear gets Forced. He eventually Surgicals Souls when my only cards in hand are Souls.

We play 2 more games for fun and I get stuck on 2 mana holding 2 Lilies and EE against TNN. He Jaces 5 brainstorms before I hit a 3rd land so I concede. The last game he gets crushed. We then have this little disagreement over the matchup where he believes it is unfavorable for me while I believe the opposite.

R2 2-0 vs. Esperblade

G1 I discard BSK and Abrade Jitte. I ride Souls and Ghast with Bombardment while he struggles with 2 Jaces and a TNN.

Same SB

G2 I answer BSK, Jitte, and RiP with a Therapy and a Wear and grind him out with Liliana.

R3 1-2 vs. UW Stoneblade

G1 I keep a 1 lander with plenty of interaction and put him on Miracles. My 2 Feeders get Plowed. I Therapy his T2 SFM into Jitte naming Jitte but he had BSK in hand and FoW for the flashback. The game is long and grindy but I find the second land too late and TNN and BSK beats me down while I looked for an Abrade all game with 4x Looting + Flashback.

Same SB...

G2 He has Force and Pierce to backup his SFM but I Abrade BSK and race his Jitte TNN for exactsies with Ghasts (until they get Extracted) and Souls with Bombardment.

G3 I deal with Jitte and play through RiP. The game goes long and I am completely flooded with 6 lands. I make a missplay where I therapy in the blind when hes on 4 lands and name BSK because he had not been doing much other than play lands, a Jitte, and counter my 3 Bombardments. Since he had Jitte and BSK in his hand every game I figured he was probably holding BSK because of poor shuffling, and waited on his 5th land drop to play it. He was holding more counters and a Jace which then landed, brainstormed a SFM into BSK while I was holding a bunch of lands and had used up my therapy. I kill Jace and the game goes long while he beats with his BSK. I chump with Souls and wait for one of ten answers that never show. On my last turn I play Liliana but it gets double Pierced and I die.

R4 vs. 2-0 Canadian Thresh

G1 I get stifled but I kept a land heavy hand. Looting for 2 Ghasts and Entomb for Scourge means that he has to counter the 6/6 Flyer I am casting every turn. The demon eventually hits play when I am at 7 life from Goyf beats and I take it from there.

In: 3 Push 3 Liliana 2 EE
Out: 4 TS 4 Therapy

G2 I eat a Stifle but the basics do a good job of blanking his Wasteland. I Push a Goyf and EE a Delver. Bombardment + Souls and Ghast grinds him out while he is holding soft counters for my Lilies.

Given the high concentration of SFM and Chalice decks in my meta, I think a 3rd Abrade over the 3rd Soul would be reasonable, at least until I can get my hands on a Bridge. Abrade is often my only answer to a desperate situation G1.

I hit a lot of bad Stitcher flips and there were no good opportunities to fetch a Bridge throughout my last 2 tournaments. I think I want to review Feeder's relevance in the deck if I choose to play Bridge-less.

[jugglervr]

I hit a lot of bad Stitcher flips

All of my stitcher flips are bad to medium with this deck. :(

[Qweerios]

All of my stitcher flips are bad to medium with this deck. :(

With a minimum of 20 GY-friendly cards you average 1 card per Stitcher trigger. Sometimes you get more, sometimes you get less. Because Stitcher and Looting is the blood of this deck I like to play a high concentration of Lingering Souls.

[shonenkakumei]

Played at FNM last night, with the white splash (2 Lingering Souls, 2 wear // Tear in the board), went 2-2 but had a blast. I played one Phyrexian Altar, 2 Gurmags, 2 Bridges, 3 Entombs, and no Bob. The Altar didn't do any work and 3-mana seemed a lot, but I have to play it out at least once before I cut it for something more efficient (Bitterblossom? Another Bombardment?)

Matches:

Beat B/R Reanimator 2-1. Lost game one turn one (sure), won game two with turn one Thoughtseize, take Reanimate and Surgical it, followed by turn two Gurmag Angler. Won game 3 with a turn one Gravecrawler to beat double-Chancellor triggers (the value... lol) and turn two Entomb for Coffin Purge. Zombies beat down.

Beat U/W Landstill 2-0. Pretty easy match up game one, as our threats are resilient and sac-outlets are good against Plow. Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy pulled tons of weight, and Bridge helped me rebuild quickly after Terminus. Similar game post board, but my opponent didn't have RIP (because of his Snapcaster plan). I brought in Chains but didn't need it.

Lost to Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, 2-1. Lost game one to a triple sol-land hand from opponent. I Thoughtseize turn one and take the turn-2 Thought Knot, but I probably should have just gone for the turn three Endbringer and let him have my card from hand. He beat me by one turn--an 8/8 Carrion Feeder didn't get there. Game 2 I win off of Ensnaring Bridge and Lingering Souls. Game 3 he's on the play and goes double-Leyline, Chalice-on-1. I play EE on Zero, hoping to fight through the hate, but his last card is Sorcerous Spyglass, which names EE.

Lost to LED Dredge, 0-2. Match up felt rough. I think my opponent knew what I was on since he blind-named Goblin Bombardment off Cabal Therapy, and the sac outlet would have helped quite a bit with his Bridges, Game two Coffin Purge wasn't enough and I didn't see my Surgicals. Any tips for this match-up?

[militiaman89]

Has anyone seen this list, went 5-0 recently. Basically a legacy version of the bridgevine list. It seems super solid and would like ike to know if anyone else has playtested with it.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180826/72c9ec063acc7f02aa6fd2fb921e2cbd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180826/cd559d8ab2392ec18c9ca1cd384162e7.jpg

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[maCHOOga]

You mean this correct:

4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Putrid Imp

3 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
3 Goblin Bombardment
4 Bridge from Below

3 Swamp
1 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Undiscovered Paradise

*~* Sideboard *~*
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Damping Sphere
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
I'm also very intrigued as well. Not sure why damping sphere over another myriad of similar hate cards. It does slow down Eldrazi though.
I've been very close to pulling the trigger on vengevines on MTGO. This is a turn slower than the modern counterpart but significantly less all in. In modern if you can beat wave 1 and they don't have greater gargadon, the deck basically implodes on itself. On the other side, I've gone from 16 to 0 on turn 3 out of nowhere.

[ReAnimator]

If i were to try a bridge vine version, i would probably want some of that explosiveness that the modern version has for game one, and then have the slower reactive stuff in the board to better handle hate.

I think a lot of the power and speed comes from having the XX creatures both of which have a lot of extra utility in here.

My first instinct would be to cut the thoughtseizes and maybe a few other things to fit in 5-6 XX creatures. Because of bombardment, Therapy and Carrion Feeder being the sac outlets Hangerback may actually be the preferred one over ballista for this deck.

[SupaCtrl]

If i were to try a bridge vine version, i would probably want some of that explosiveness that the modern version has for game one, and then have the slower reactive stuff in the board to better handle hate.

I think a lot of the power and speed comes from having the XX creatures both of which have a lot of extra utility in here.

My first instinct would be to cut the thoughtseizes and maybe a few other things to fit in 5-6 XX creatures. Because of bombardment, Therapy and Carrion Feeder being the sac outlets Hangerback may actually be the preferred one over ballista for this deck.

Hey, so I came up with this iteration and I can tell you that I definitely tested the x/x's. The thing is that they add a level of inconsistency that the deck just doesn't need. You outgrind the fair matchups and you want to be casting a thoughtseize turn one against unfair matchups and so being that one turn faster just isn't necessary. Plus, then we would have to be playing that garbage neonate card :P

[shonenkakumei]

If playing Bridgevine, what's the advantage over stock LED Dredge?

Zombardment seems more disruptive through graveyard hate, even if it still hurts of course.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

If playing Bridgevine, what's the advantage over stock LED Dredge?

Zombardment seems more disruptive through graveyard hate, even if it still hurts of course.

You don't have to scoop to leyline. You just have play an incredibly bad aggro deck.

[ReAnimator]

Hey, so I came up with this iteration and I can tell you that I definitely tested the x/x's. The thing is that they add a level of inconsistency that the deck just doesn't need. You outgrind the fair matchups and you want to be casting a thoughtseize turn one against unfair matchups and so being that one turn faster just isn't necessary. Plus, then we would have to be playing that garbage neonate card :P


Thanks for the feedback! totally get where you are coming from.

[maCHOOga]

You don't have to scoop to leyline. You just have play an incredibly bad aggro deck.

This is 100% correct.... 2/1s still are a decent clock at winning the game especially when they turn into gut shots to close the game. I've beaten surgical, leyline and RIP on the bad agro deck plan. Honestly the card that gives us the most trouble is graffdiggers cage. The CMC of 1 vs 2 of RIP prevents us from sneaking in bloodghast. Pair with the fact that its colorless, theres a wide variety of decks that have a misers copy.

[SupaCtrl]

You mean this correct:

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
I'm also very intrigued as well. Not sure why damping sphere over another myriad of similar hate cards. It does slow down Eldrazi though.
I've been very close to pulling the trigger on vengevines on MTGO. This is a turn slower than the modern counterpart but significantly less all in. In modern if you can beat wave 1 and they don't have greater gargadon, the deck basically implodes on itself. On the other side, I've gone from 16 to 0 on turn 3 out of nowhere.

Hey, I'd like to ask you what you think I should have played instead of the damping spheres. I'm sort of figuring things out with this deck right now and am realizing that it's a super real concept. I like it soooooo much more than the mardu version with lingering souls, but that means that the sideboard isn't fleshed out to meet the new game plans and new meta surrounding the deck.

[aromaticity]

I played ReneRandrup's BRg version last night at a three round local.

M1 vs Maverick I was just slightly too slow G1 thanks to Thalia + Wasteland. He killed me with KotR beats thanks to a Mother of Runes right before I could go off with Bridge. Had I been on the play, I would have been able to 'go off' T2. G2 I out grinded him and managed to put lethal on the table before he could get Scooze. G3 I was in a dominant position but he drew into GSZ for Scooze on like six lands. I had a couple of turns to find an answer, but we went to time and drew.

M2 vs Food Chain G1 my opponent is in a losing position after a bunch of discard + some pressure, but draws into Relic->chain->manipulate fate->Decay for Bombardment. Fading any one of those cards probably would have been enough, but that's Magic. I did misplay by not blocking an eternal scourge, leaving me dead on board to Griffons. I think I had five looks for a second Bombardment to potentially get there through his board had I blocked. G2 I got absolutely destroyed. Chains slowed him down but Cage completely shut me out and I had already milled over Decay.

M3 vs Miracles, notably threat light with Jace and Snapcaster being the only wincons. G1 my opponent just can't really do anything to stop recursive value + Bombardment. G2 is kind of a slog where we both get stuck on two lands for a long time - one of mine being Phyrexian Tower, meaning I can't just jam my Bloodghasts. I thoughtsieze his relevant cards leaving him with multiple STP, get an entombed therapy forced, and eventually just let my Bob get swords because I drew Surgical. He had drawn the final STP, so my surgical is a three for one leaving him empty handed. I draw a land to play bloodghast and get there.

Was overall pretty fun. I'm not sure that the green splash for varied artifact/enchantment answers is better than white splash for probably a couple Souls MB and W//T sideboard. Having Entomb-able Grudge is cool, though. Deck is sort of hard to play/sequence - I hadn't played an Entomb version before. It's certainly possible I could have won the first game vs Chain or the loss/draw from Maverick if I had played tighter.

[johncarvalho]

Do you guys usually side out the entombs?

I think the entomb bridge plan goes against the removals boarded in vs creature decks (pushes, edicts).... vs DnT or eldrazi for example, using a list with 4 entombs/1bridge/1scourge, would you take them all out and side in stuff like pushes/edicts/explosives/ensnaring bridges?? you can stall the game with bridges and ping them/lingering souls them to death.

what about supplier? i've come to situations where they milled all my sideboarded answers :laugh::laugh::laugh: i usually take at least 2 of them out.

Im still learning to play the deck and my list is very similar to qweerios (2 abrades MD), and sometimes i have a lot of difficult when sideboarding. Sometimes i board in like 13 cards :tongue:
(I came back to mtg a few months ago after years, needs more time to get to know every single deck of the format).

[shonenkakumei]

I played Zombardment (no Vengevines) with a white splash and an Entomb package at FNM and went 3-1. The deck is an absolute blast to play. Definitely not a tier deck but it seems to reward careful play and it let's you see enough cards that it feels almost as consistent as a blue deck (obviously not quite). Cabal Therapy and Stitcher's Supplier are definitely best friends...and Gurmag as a fair finisher is hard to argue with at the moment.

2-0 vs. Goblins

Game 1 my opponent mulligans to 5 and I have Thoughtseize for Vial into Sticher's Supplier to block Lackey. After landing a Bombardment, the Krenko he Matroned for becomes a brick, and my Zombies beat down. Game 2 plays out similarly: my sideboard artifact hate (2 Wear // Tear, 1 Abrade) gets his Vials, and one Surgical isn't enough to disrupt the Zombie value engine.

2-0 vs. Grixis Control

Game 1 multiple copies of Cabal Therapy give me good info and help me play around K-Command etc and he can't beat the recursive value of the Zombie engine. Game 2 I lead on Supplier, get some good hits, followed by Chains of Mephistopheles, which gets promptly Forced. A few turns in he Surgicals my Gravecrawlers (while I have a Carrion Feeder out) and then I apply pressure with Bloodghasts. After I sack them to a Bombardment to kill his Jace, he Surgicals those as well. I Entomb a Bridge and get there with a wide board of Zombies and Lingering Souls.

1-2 vs. Death and Taxes

Game I lead on Cabal Therapy and blind name Aether Vial (white sleeves...) and later blind name Recruiter of the Guard. Seems good. I'm one mana off infinite zombies with Phyrexian Altar, but thanks to his Thalia and Wastelands, I never get there. [NOTE: Altar has been as bad as it seems. Should probably just be another Bombardment, or a Bitterblossom, both of which would have been castable and great]. My value seems great until he lands a Jitte and I scoop 'em up. Game 2 he leads on Mom into Rest in Peace. Ouch. I have EE in hands, but then he drops Thalia as well. I topdeck Zealous Persectuion, Cast the EE, and effectively reset the game. From that point on it's a grind. He finds Jitte, I Arade it, I Cabal Therapy away two Swords to Plowshares then cast Gurmag into Supplier into second Gurmag. He finds another Swords but the second Gurmag gets there. Game 3 he Recruiter's for Faerie Macab, gets Vial up to three, Flickerwisps Recruiter for Mirran Crusader, which quicky ends the game.

2-0 vs. Bizarro Stormy

We both know what the other is on and he probably mulligans a bit too aggressively out of fear of discard. He plays turn one Ponder, I Cabal Therapy blind and hit on Shallow Grave. Turn two is a Supplier, which mills over a Gravecrawler and another Therapy. I tear his hand apart then get there with Zombies. Game two I'm feeling good bringing in 2 Surgicals, a Coffin Purge, and two Magus of the Moon. I also bring in one Abrade and EE, in case of a creature based sideboard change up. I boarded out the Altar and one of the two Bombardments, as well as one land (Urborg) and a Gravecrawler or two. I keep a hand with a Surgical, Thoughtseize, and an Entomb to tutor up the Coffin Purge, but he leads on Silent Gravestone (since Shallow Grave doesn't target he can still combo off). I Thoughtseize to keep him off the combo, but can't lock it up with the Surgical. I end up playing for value and 2-for-1s with Cabal Therapy and eventually EE on 1 to blow up the Gravestone and have Coffin Purge up as protection. Zombies get there.

[shonenkakumei]

Do you guys usually side out the entombs?

I think the entomb bridge plan goes against the removals boarded in vs creature decks (pushes, edicts).... vs DnT or eldrazi for example, using a list with 4 entombs/1bridge/1scourge, would you take them all out and side in stuff like pushes/edicts/explosives/ensnaring bridges?? you can stall the game with bridges and ping them/lingering souls them to death.

what about supplier? i've come to situations where they milled all my sideboarded answers :laugh::laugh::laugh: i usually take at least 2 of them out.

Im still learning to play the deck and my list is very similar to qweerios (2 abrades MD), and sometimes i have a lot of difficult when sideboarding. Sometimes i board in like 13 cards :tongue:
(I came back to mtg a few months ago after years, needs more time to get to know every single deck of the format).

I usually go down on Entombs, with the assumption that my graveyard won't be as reliable in post-board games. If I'm playing against a graveyard deck I usually leave them in as quasi-copies of Coffin Purge.

I've always kept in the full set of Suppliers, since they can generate virtual card advantage. I might try trimming one the in the future, but it's hard to imagine going too low. I don't like boarding out Cantrips, and while Supplier doesn't give card selection directly, milling over a Faithless Looting or a Cabal Therapy is usually good enough.

[johncarvalho]

I usually go down on Entombs, with the assumption that my graveyard won't be as reliable in post-board games. If I'm playing against a graveyard deck I usually leave them in as quasi-copies of Coffin Purge.

I've always kept in the full set of Suppliers, since they can generate virtual card advantage. I might try trimming one the in the future, but it's hard to imagine going too low. I don't like boarding out Cantrips, and while Supplier doesn't give card selection directly, milling over a Faithless Looting or a Cabal Therapy is usually good enough.

Nice man, thanks for the tips!
Ill play a big tournament today, ill try to post the results here after!

[johncarvalho]

Ok, it went pretty bad (1-4), but I got a lot of bad luck....

Match 1: Win 2-1 vs RUG delver
G1 I developed a board with scourge of nel toth, some zombie tokens, 2 blooghasts and a gravecrawler, he cant do anything.
G2 was tight, we both at 1 life, I had to abrade my gravecrawler to make a zombie out of bridge to block a goyf, but it got countered and i got no blocks.
G3 was a beatdown with 2 ghasts and a sticher supplier. Lots of discards and eventually I dropped a liliana of the veil to nail the coffin.

Match 2: Lost 2-0 Burn
G1 I started with a thoughtseize, took down an eidolon, got killed on like turn 3.
G2 I mull to 5 cards and only saw 1 land.
He started both games with pretty sick hands, even if I had anything, it would be almost impossible for me to win both games.

Match 3: Lost 2-1 vs UB Death's Shadow
G1 I got crushed insanely fast by a gurmag. He got a perfect sequence of removal/discard/counters/wastelands/stifles... nothing I could do.
G2 I discarded him pretty bad and was beatdown with ghasts and crawlers.
G3 I had 7 life, he got delver and gurmag on board, 4 cards in hand, 3 were lands that i previously knew, and another card in hand. I had only an ensnaring bridge in had, and 3 lands in play. I sacrificed my ghast to a cabal therpy, to name the only counter I could possibly imagine he would have, daze. it was a stubborn denial -.-

Match 4: Lost 2-1 vs Mono-Blue Omnitell
G1 I discarded a bunch and beatdown with ghasts and got the bombardment engine for the win
G2 Show and tell t2 protected by 4 counters (2 spell pierces, 1 fluster 1 fow)
G3 Game was going smooth beating down with 2 ghasts, until suddenly show and tell, omniscience, emrakul, extra turn... he attacked me, leaving me with just 1 liliana of the veil on the board, with 5 loyalty, and me at 1 life, he had no cards in hand... on my turn, I draw a land, trigger 2 bloodghasts back to play, and kill his emrakul with liliana, thinking I'm back to the gam... on his turn, of course, he topdecks emrakul -.-

Match 5: Lost 2-1 vs Infect
G1 Discards couldnt stop him, lots of counters
G2 He kept a bad hand, Bombardment got everything
G3 2 inkmoth nexus did the job for him, i never drew removal besides 2 explosives, and they couldnt handle the nexus

Deck is incredibly fun and I had insanely bad luck :cry:

[Qweerios]

Hey there fellow zombie throwers!

Another weekly after a small break for work. The turnout was low but the quality was high. Since last time my meta was infested with Blade players, I decided to go up to 3 Abrade. There were still a couple Blade decks but some of them moved to Miracle along with a Chalice player. I also gave up on Bridge and Feeder and went back to Gurmag. Here's what I ended up with:

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

3 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Undiscovered Paradise
//SB
1 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Engineered Explosives


R1: 2-0 vs. Lands
G1 I flood and clog the board against Waste/Loam and 2 Maze
G2 I keep 2 Surgical opener with Wear and grind him out through Marrit Lage with Scourge and Souls.

R2: 2-0 vs. Miracles
G1 I shred his hand and beat him down through 2 Terminus.
G2 I shred his hand and ride Liliana to victory

R3: 0-2 vs. Maverick
G1 I get denied by Thalia on 3 mana holding 2 Souls with Bombardment in play and Ghast + Crawler in the yard. Ooze blows me out while I fail to draw a land or creature for 3 turns.
G2 I get stuck on 2 lands for 8+ turns when all I need is a land to shut the door. I eventually die to Noble with SoFaI and SoLaS while im holding Push, Bombardment, Ghast, Liliana, Souls, and EE on 2 Mana.

We played a 3rd game for fun and rolled him over.

R3: 2-0 vs. Grixis Control
G1 is a bye they can't do anything
G2 we play the grind but in the end he gets no Surgicals and gets grinded out.

Props:
-EE in every matchup
-Abrade always readily availlable and easily replaced. I am satisfied with that play pattern so 3 is a good number.
-Gurmag didn't particularly shine but was always superior to Feeder when I drew him
-Didn't miss Bridge from Below or Feeder at any point

Slops:
-Land screws
-Entomb missplay cost me the first game against Maverick

Overall I really appreciate how the deck rewards tight plays and forethought. The only thing I would like to is to include a 3rd Scrubland as a 21st land against land-denial strategies (DnT, Maverick, Delver, Lands) I am at a point where I am considering a 61st card even though this goes against all my instincts...

To those who were asking about Entomb and SB advice, I would never side out Entomb unless I expect massive Entomb hate like 4 Leylines + 4 Chalice AND I have a super SB plan to replace them. As for Supplier, she literally never gets sided out... ever. Supplier is the best GY rebuilder post-RiP/Surgical/Bog/you-name-it-GY-wipe.

@johncarvalho,

Discard is really bad post-board against tempo decks. I side out all 8 discard spells against Delver decks faster than you can say "Delver, go!".

Keep on bombardin'

[maCHOOga]

If all goes according to plan, I'm cleared to launch zombies in a 60-100 person even this upcoming weekend. I've been jamming games of the mardu builds and the jund vengevine variant online. I'm leaning towards the Mardu version for this event.

In recent testing, I've been testing out a 1x bridge to below as an entomb target that allows the deck to go wide in mardu. It has allowed me to win multiple games that I feel like I should have lost (goblins & lands & Grixis Control). I ended up shaving thoughtseize #4 (or cabal therapy #4) to squeeze it in. That also requires me to play the *meh* carrion feeder as sac outlet. But if I cut feeders and bridge, I pick up spots for Gurmags and more maindeck removal.
@Qweerios
Is this the same thought process of how you ended up cutting them?

Per the norm, I feel like I want 20-25 cards and only have 15 sideboard slots available. Here is what I'm thinking about bringing.
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Coffin Purge
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Wear / Tear
1 Abrade
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ensnaring Bridge
*Maybe board*
Liliana, LoTV
Magus of the Moon
Zealous Persecution
Engineer Explosives
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Null Rod
Fatal Push
STP / Path

I'm most inclined to cut the coffin purge because after playing reanimator for months, I never had the scenario where I wanted to fire off the best card in the deck (entomb) for it. I suspect the same applies here.

[shonenkakumei]

I'm most inclined to cut the coffin purge because after playing reanimator for months, I never had the scenario where I wanted to fire off the best card in the deck (entomb) for it. I suspect the same applies here.

Understandable, but against Reanimator decks it feels relevant to hit graveyard hate in every SB match... Zombardment entomb targets (Scourge of Nel Toth or Lingering Souls or Blooghast or Bridge or Looting) are all so paltry compared to Griselbrand/Iona/etc. I see playing one Coffin Purge as a way of playing virtual "extra copies" of a SB hate since the Entomb package is great anyhow and I want lots of SB space for other things.

That said, the mana intensive nature of Entomb+Coffin Purge is so much worse than Surgical or Faerie Macabre against B/R with a Chancellor.

[shonenkakumei]

Hey there fellow zombie throwers!

Another weekly after a small break for work. The turnout was low but the quality was high. Since last time my meta was infested with Blade players, I decided to go up to 3 Abrade. There were still a couple Blade decks but some of them moved to Miracle along with a Chalice player. I also gave up on Bridge and Feeder and went back to Gurmag. Here's what I ended up with:

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Scourge of Nel Toth

3 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls

3 Goblin Bombardment

4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Undiscovered Paradise
//SB
1 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Engineered Explosives


R1: 2-0 vs. Lands
G1 I flood and clog the board against Waste/Loam and 2 Maze
G2 I keep 2 Surgical opener with Wear and grind him out through Marrit Lage with Scourge and Souls.

R2: 2-0 vs. Miracles
G1 I shred his hand and beat him down through 2 Terminus.
G2 I shred his hand and ride Liliana to victory

R3: 0-2 vs. Maverick
G1 I get denied by Thalia on 3 mana holding 2 Souls with Bombardment in play and Ghast + Crawler in the yard. Ooze blows me out while I fail to draw a land or creature for 3 turns.
G2 I get stuck on 2 lands for 8+ turns when all I need is a land to shut the door. I eventually die to Noble with SoFaI and SoLaS while im holding Push, Bombardment, Ghast, Liliana, Souls, and EE on 2 Mana.

We played a 3rd game for fun and rolled him over.

R3: 2-0 vs. Grixis Control
G1 is a bye they can't do anything
G2 we play the grind but in the end he gets no Surgicals and gets grinded out.

Props:
-EE in every matchup
-Abrade always readily availlable and easily replaced. I am satisfied with that play pattern so 3 is a good number.
-Gurmag didn't particularly shine but was always superior to Feeder when I drew him
-Didn't miss Bridge from Below or Feeder at any point

Slops:
-Land screws
-Entomb missplay cost me the first game against Maverick

Overall I really appreciate how the deck rewards tight plays and forethought. The only thing I would like to is to include a 3rd Scrubland as a 21st land against land-denial strategies (DnT, Maverick, Delver, Lands) I am at a point where I am considering a 61st card even though this goes against all my instincts...

To those who were asking about Entomb and SB advice, I would never side out Entomb unless I expect massive Entomb hate like 4 Leylines + 4 Chalice AND I have a super SB plan to replace them. As for Supplier, she literally never gets sided out... ever. Supplier is the best GY rebuilder post-RiP/Surgical/Bog/you-name-it-GY-wipe.

@johncarvalho,

Discard is really bad post-board against tempo decks. I side out all 8 discard spells against Delver decks faster than you can say "Delver, go!".

Keep on bombardin'

Cool list! I love the idea of main-decking some number of Abrades to save sideboard space. I will definitely try that out.

SB questions--

1) how has Liliana of the Veil been? What match ups does she come in for? How is it getting to the three mana in those games?

2) were the Fatal Pushes good? I generally think of the Zombardment deck as good against any fair deck, so I skimped on fair deck SB cards (like Liliana the Last Hope). How about 1 Darkblast (for small creatures/Entomb target) / Urborg Justice (or Diabolic Edict) split?

Main-deck questions--

Has Scourge of Nel Toth been worth it's slot over, say, another Gurmag? Obviously flying/Entomb-ability/recursiveness are good, but it's so resource intensive. Also, in terms of cutting the Bridges/Feeder... after cutting 4+ Zombies have you had issues getting a Zombie to consistently recast Gravecrawler?

Thanks!

[johncarvalho]

Went 2-2 yesterday with the following list:

3 carrion feeder
4 stitcher's supplier
4 bloodghast
4 gravecrawler
1 scourge of nel toth

4 entomb
4 faithless looting
4 thoughtseize
4 cabal therapy
2 faithless looting
2 abrade

3 goblin bombardment
1 bridge from below

3 badlands
2 scrubland
3 swamp
4 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta
3 marsh flats
1 undiscovered paradise

sideboard

2 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle
3 surgical extraction
2 diabolic edict
1 ensnaring bridge
3 wear/tear
3 liliana of the veil

match1: 1-2 vs sneak n show
g1 emrakul t2
g2 I discarded and surgical emrakul and grisebrand
g3 I surgical her show and tell, cabal 2 sneak attacks and tear another, but she was able to topdeck the last sneak attack (i had liliana in play, it was the ONLY card that could potentially save her), and an emrakul right after (and I was at 15 after seizes/fetches) :frown: (its amazing how my games are vs sneak and show, it always comes to them topdecking the missing piece)

match 2: 2-0 vs burn
g1 bridge from below went crazy
g2 see game 1

match 3: 2-1 vs uw stoneblade
g1 I missplay discarding an abrade to a looting at some point and that costed me the game
g2 was able to lock my opponent with ensaring bridge until I drew a bombardment, before that was lingering souls beating (he actually had to plowshares both the spirits)
g3 opponent only saw 1 land in like 5 turns, was not a fair win

match 4: 0-2 vs uw spirits (what a cool deck btw, very very sinergistic)
g1 a resolved jitte took over the game, never saw abrade
g2 I discarded his jitte, but 2 spirit lords with hexproof and 2 m19 spirit lord were impossible to beat (scourge was boarded out because of plowshares)

This deck is a blast to pilot, but I never see to get a 4-0 finish (damn emrakuls :frown:)! I wanna try a version with some smallpox/8 rack package because our discard game is so strong that I think its worth a shot! maybe that could be an SB alternative plan!

[maCHOOga]

Cool list! I love the idea of main-decking some number of Abrades to save sideboard space. I will definitely try that out.

SB questions--

1) how has Liliana of the Veil been? What match ups does she come in for? How is it getting to the three mana in those games?

2) were the Fatal Pushes good? I generally think of the Zombardment deck as good against any fair deck, so I skimped on fair deck SB cards (like Liliana the Last Hope). How about 1 Darkblast (for small creatures/Entomb target) / Urborg Justice (or Diabolic Edict) split?

Main-deck questions--

Has Scourge of Nel Toth been worth it's slot over, say, another Gurmag? Obviously flying/Entomb-ability/recursiveness are good, but it's so resource intensive. Also, in terms of cutting the Bridges/Feeder... after cutting 4+ Zombies have you had issues getting a Zombie to consistently recast Gravecrawler?

Thanks!

1.) Liliana is good against the gambit of control decks, plus combo. I'm hesitant against Shadow because they have a billion counterspells, so she probably isn't resolving, ever. My biggest issue with her is lands can play around the edict and her ultimate doesn't "win" the game.

2.) I'm going to test Dreadbore in the slot. Planeswalkers, namely Liliana, the Last Hope can give this deck troubles. Likewise, murderous cut is the other card I'm going to start testing.

Scourge is a way to fly over a ground stall and close games quickly. The card is very good in the Mardu build and enables a un-fair-esk combo. The majority of the removal in the format doesn't kill it either, which is a huge plus. Just board it out in the matchups were you suspect they have RiP. It also has the built in pseudo graveyard anti-hate of being a cast, so your opponent doesn't receive priority until its already on the stack if you sequence correctly.

*~*~*~*~* ~*
Also, if you read Reid Dukes CFB article today it basically says that Back to Basics is the secret best card in legacy. I think one could easily argue that 2x undiscovered paradise is the magic number because, it will never stay in play tapped. It's a very subtle thing that could easily be overlooked.

[Qweerios]

@maCHOOga,

Yes we went through a similar thought process over the inclusion of the 3rd Abrade and 2 Gurmag and the exclusion of the Feeders/Bridge. For me it boils down to this:

-Feeder is the weakest link without Bridge
-Bridge is rarely the go-to play
-Bridge requires Feeder, given that Bridge is not essential to the deck's success, removing Bridge gives me little incentive to play Feeder
-Abrade #3 makes a difference against the common offenders (Chalice, Jitte, BSkull, Delver, Thalia, Ooze, Eidolon, Goblin Guide, Lackey)
-Gurmag has different synergy than Feeder (Supplier, Looting, Fetches)
-Gurmag is 5/5 right out of the gates and can block (super relevant)
-Gurmag is less GY dependant than Feeder (Yes, Delve is hard to hate and Feeder without a recursive creature isn't so hot)
-Overall Gurmag and Abrade help me overcome my worst matchups while Feeder and Bridge does not


Cool list! I love the idea of main-decking some number of Abrades to save sideboard space. I will definitely try that out.

SB questions--

1) how has Liliana of the Veil been? What match ups does she come in for? How is it getting to the three mana in those games?

Liliana comes in against:
-Aggro: Delver, Eldrazi, Maverick. NOT Infect, Burn, Steel Stompy, DnT (too slow and edict is insignificant)
-Control: All of them.
-Combo: SnT, Storm, Reanimator, Depths/Lands

Against aggro decks, Liliana wins the game on an empty board or puts them on a timer. Its a great card to catch up and seal a game because it grants you a card every turn (+1 is usually one-sided). Against combo it makes our early discard devastating because they never get to recuperate their losses while they try to deal with our recurring little shits. Given that we already attack from different angles (hand, board, graveyard), throwing a PW in the mix makes it nearly impossible for a control player to control everything. Combo decks nowadays tend to rely on a fat creature to win. Recurring edicts and discard puts them in a situation where it becomes difficult to combo and difficult to keep their combo online. Yes Lily is slow against combo decks but we already have the fastest discard suite available and lack Liliana's snowball effect pre-board.

2) were the Fatal Pushes good? I generally think of the Zombardment deck as good against any fair deck, so I skimped on fair deck SB cards (like Liliana the Last Hope). How about 1 Darkblast (for small creatures/Entomb target) / Urborg Justice (or Diabolic Edict) split?

Zombardment's strengths are:

-First, its innate ability to grind using the GY (free roam G1) which makes it good against control decks.

-Second, its fast and efficient discard suite and quick beats which makes it good against traditional combo decks (NOT Reanimator and T1 combos).

The most difficult matchups for us in my experience are the following:

-1st Reanimator and Dredge strategies that have better GY abuse and typically don't care about our primary form of interaction (Discard). This is why we need adequate GY-hate to overcome these matchups (4-5 pieces)

-2nd Delver decks, Stompy decks and Burn. We do not possess many tempo tools to fight back tempo strategies. If they have the tools to deny us, we do not have the tools to fight back. Discard is tempo-negative and most of our creatures can't block. Quick threats coupled with mana denial, soft counters (or Chalice), and/or reach has the potential to end us before we take over. This is why I value cheap efficient removal (Push, Abrade, EE being the best by a mile), a strong manabase, and effective road blocks (Souls and Angler) as they are some of our only tools.

-3rd Midrange deck WITH tools are a real challenge because they counter-attack from multiple angles and have more efficient creatures. Just like us, they can leverage multiple angles of attack which makes for very intricate plays. DnT, Maverick, and 4c Loam are all examples of midrange decks with tools (SFM Package, Surgical, RiP, Leyline, Ooze, Qasali, Remorseful Spirit, Mom, Thalia, Wasteland, PFire, Chalice, KotR for Waste/Bog/Depths, Exile removal... the list goes on).

-4th T1 Combo decks... Without FoW there isn't much more that can be done. Packing some answers to EtW helps (EE, ZP). If they ever become super popular we can always just pack a SB Volcanic Spray and have 5 SB board wipes for goblin tokens.

To answer your question:

-Push is strong against the 2nd and 3rd category of decks.
-Darkblast is too narrow (play more Push instead!)
-LtLH is extremely narrow and win-more. I've already explained in this thread why LtLH is a complete waste.
-Edict is better than Urborg and they are both unnecessary. Liliana already covers all the necessary Edict effects. Be proactive with Souls and Scourge against Depths decks and you won't need Instant speed from Edict. We can't protect our hand from discard with Brainstorm and counters anyway so it's sort of a waste to rely on Edict against turbo depths.

Main-deck questions--

Has Scourge of Nel Toth been worth it's slot over, say, another Gurmag? Obviously flying/Entomb-ability/recursiveness are good, but it's so resource intensive. Also, in terms of cutting the Bridges/Feeder... after cutting 4+ Zombies have you had issues getting a Zombie to consistently recast Gravecrawler?

Scourge is better than Gurmag in the first place because it is bigger, flies, can be fetched with Entomb, and generates value off Looting. Multiple Scourges are superfluous and clunky. Gurmag is Scourge #2-3. Now if you could fetch Gurmag with Entomb, this would be a completely different story.

I cut 3 Feeders and 1 Bridge for of 2 Gurmags, 1 Abrade, and 1 Souls. Cutting 1 zombie did not affect my ability to cast Crawler much.

Thanks!

[johncarvalho]

@maCHOOga,

Yes we went through a similar thought process over the inclusion of the 3rd Abrade and 2 Gurmag and the exclusion of the Feeders/Bridge. For me it boils down to this:

-Feeder is the weakest link without Bridge
-Bridge is rarely the go-to play
-Bridge requires Feeder, given that Bridge is not essential to the deck's success, removing Bridge gives me little incentive to play Feeder
-Abrade #3 makes a difference against the common offenders (Chalice, Jitte, BSkull, Delver, Thalia, Ooze, Eidolon, Goblin Guide, Lackey)
-Gurmag has different synergy than Feeder (Supplier, Looting, Fetches)
-Gurmag is 5/5 right out of the gates and can block (super relevant)
-Gurmag is less GY dependant than Feeder (Yes, Delve is hard to hate and Feeder without a recursive creature isn't so hot)
-Overall Gurmag and Abrade help me overcome my worst matchups while Feeder and Bridge does not

How about a kolaghans command instead of the 3rd abrade as a way to recover a gurmag milled over by a stitcher?
I will try the bridgeless/feederless build tomorrow!

[maCHOOga]

Played in a quest for power (Mox Ruby) today {39 people} and managed to top 8, but lost to what feels like a 10/90 matchup in top 8 quarterfinals. These events usually draw 50+ people but I believe the crappy weather + Ravens game caused the low turnout. Not sure who won, just that there were 4,096 zombies and an ensnaring bridge in game three of the finals. Anyway, here are my notes...
Went with 2x Abrade in the removal slots, w. 3 Carrion Feeders + Bridge that has been floating around.

Round 1 - L 1-2 Aggro loam
Game 1, They play GSZ for X=0 and a land, so I'm like 90% sure they are on aggro loam. I blind therapy knight of the reliquary, miss and he draws a knight and deploys it.
Game 2 I abrade their chalice and go wide to defeat them.
Game 3 I abrade a chalice, then Wear a sylvan library. They draw a 2nd chalice and a leyline of the void and manage to turn the corner. It's possible that I should have waited on the wear/tear but with 4x wastelands + loams in the deck, I figured it was best to kill library.

Round 2 - W 2-0
Turns out that I got the bye, ran to get food. My round 2 bye top8 conversion is now 3 for 3. LOL.

Round 3 - W 2-1 RUG Delver
Game 1 I kept a weak muligan to 6 and kept a decent 1 lander and got punished. I thoughtsezied them and didn't play magic for the rest of that game.
Game 2-3: I board out thoughtseizes and get there. I kept in Cabal therapies and was able manuever a goblin bombardment kill game 3 around a stifle.

Round 4 - W 2-0 Grixis Control
Game 1: I summon a zombie dragon and they fail to find a strix
Game 2: I go wide with the bridges + bombardment and make lots of dudes. They all get deluged away, which I should have therapyed away. Bloodghast beats was good enough.

Round 5 - W 2-1 UW Miracles
Game 1: I thoughtseize and take the back to basics. They savagely draw the 2nd and slow me down to 2 swamps. Which slowly wins them the game.
Game 2: Don't remember, just I won quickly with lingering souls tokens plus other things.
Game 3: It was super grindy, I got swords 5 times and terminused twice but was able to pull out a win. Sorin, make a vampire was able to win me the game. Yay fun-ofs!

Round 6 - ID v Dredge
We didn't even want to try to out graveyard each other.

I'm 7th seed going into top8 against turbo depths. This matchup feels unwinnable in the current configuration.
Game 1: They mulligan 6 turn 1 a dark confidant. I stitcher hitting 3x dual lands. I thoughtseize away an abrupt decay leaving them with a mox diamond. I could have easily cabal therapy the lone mox diamond, but elect not to. They flip a maze of ith, make a 20/20. I get lingering souls into play to block and they crop rotation into sejiri steppe. If I would have taken the diamond, it would have bought me maybe a turn or two?
Game 2: I thoughtseize them and see a turn 1 lilana, the last hope or Dark confidant. I took liliana over Dark Confidant. I didn't have any way to apply pressure to liliana in my opening 7, so I took her. I have an ensnaring bridges vs. their marit legit. We raced to bombardment v. abrupt decay and they found theirs first, thanks to Dark Confidant living.

The top8 was: Storm, DNT, Dredge, Turbodepths, Men of Steel, Rug Delver, Zombardment, 8th unknown

I could have walked away with another scrubland, but I chose the credit option.

4 Bloodghast
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Goblin Bombardment
3 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scrubland
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
4 Entomb
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
1 Bridge from Below
2 Abrade

3 Wear/Tear
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Pithing Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Closing thoughts: Carrion feeder sucks, but is necessary to play the 3 additional sacrfiice outlets. Also on talking with the dredge player, what do people think about serenity? It's a way to clear a lot of hate cards and we can easily play around deploying a bombardment.

[Qweerios]

How about a kolaghans command instead of the 3rd abrade as a way to recover a gurmag milled over by a stitcher?
I will try the bridgeless/feederless build tomorrow!

No. KCommand is worst against the mentionned cards.

[ReAnimator]

I played a bridge vine version at FNM, i did super horribly, however i did learn one super important thing.

Silent Gravestone is absolutely nuts.

It does so much for us. 90% of the hate in the format right now is surgical, and a lot of those decks run Snaps. It also shuts down reanimator effects and Loam.

I ran 3 and wished i had run 4. It was really really good, and i encourage you all to test it out, i think it does more for us both offensively and defensively than surgical could.

[coff33bit]

I'd like to bring up the topic again of possibly splashing green instead of white in Zombardment. This morning Assassin's Trophy http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/assassins-trophy/ was spoiled. It's by no mean's a no brainer, but I think it warrants discussion as a possible sideboard (or even mainboard).

[ReAnimator]

I'd like to bring up the topic again of possibly splashing green instead of white in Zombardment. This morning Assassin's Trophy http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/assassins-trophy/ was spoiled. It's by no mean's a no brainer, but I think it warrants discussion as a possible sideboard (or even mainboard).


No brainers are just fine too, we are a zombie deck...

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

No brainers are just fine too, we are a zombie deck...

Wait I thought the goal was to get the brains?

[Qweerios]

If Trophy is to be played anywhere it would be as a mainboard 3-4 of in the Abrade slot. A "Path to Vindicate" seems to me like it would have been better as a BW card but whatever wizards...

Compared to Abrade main:
Pros
-Destroys creatures with 4+ toughness (KotR, Gurmag, Goyf, Shadow)
-Destroys Planeswalkers (mostly Jace)
-Destroys Lands (Turbo Depths and Lands matchups get a boost but also suffer greatly from the loss of Souls)
-Destroys Enchantments? (Mostly SB stuff...)
Cons
-Green instead of Red makes it harder to cast and unable to destroy Chalice/Magus past a Moon effect. Also can't target Crusader.
-Gives a basic Land (Huge drawback!)

Compared to Wear // Tear side:
Pros
-Universal answer to non-Artifact/Enchantment GY hate
Cons
-2 mana to destroy enchantments (Leylines!)
-Green instead of Red
-No 2-for-1 potential (RiP + equipment or Leyline + Mox/Jitte for example)
-Gives a basic

The matchups that appear to benefit from Trophy at first glance include:
-Delver decks because they don't pack basics
-Eldrazi Stompy if they don't pack a basic as it could be desvastating to accelerate them into a T2 Smasher by assassinating a Chalice
-Lands and Depths (but not by much if we lose Souls)
-All control decks actually get worse from losing Souls even though we can snipe PW
-All the SFM decks now get a free land when we destroy an early Thalia/Equipment

I think the card frees up a lot of design space for the deck but doesn't necessarily makes it better. Abrade does a fine job for what it's intended to do, Wear is better against the common hate cards, and Lingering Souls are part of the core. Trophy would have been more interresting if it were BW...

[Qweerios]

@maCHOOga

What do you mean by needing the additional sac outlets?

4th Wear is better than Serenity. I've been contemplating a 4th copy since my current setup is great against all Artifacts and RiP but can really suffer against Leylines which Stompy decls carry and are already a rough matchup.

@ReAnimator

I too experienced with Gravestone and opted against for a few reasons:
-It conflicts with Surgical and Purge against GY decks
-It is a dedicated GY hate slot that doesn't interact with all GY decks (4 mana to pop is too much)
-It's defensive characteristics are time sensitive as you pretty much have to have it in your opener to blank Surgicals efficiently
-Snapcaster matchups tend to be really favorable already so the boon has little impact

[maCHOOga]

@maCHOOga

What do you mean by needing the additional sac outlets?



When playing a bridge from below in the 75 you want carrion feeders to enable the go-wide soft combo in addition to the goblin bombardments. I saw the price of Serenity on MTGO and did a hard-pass. I do agree, wear and tear is better for now.

~*~*~*~*~
Fast forward to Assassin's Trophy. I definitely want to try a Jund version of the Mardu deck. Lingering souls is really good at attacking the metagame, but there are certain metagames where Jund is better. Assassin's trophy is an answer to Chalice, Tabernacle, Marit liege and pesky planeswalkers. All we need now is another golgari zombie. Sorry Lotleth troll, you were all hype back in the day.

[coff33bit]

If Trophy is to be played anywhere it would be as a mainboard 3-4 of in the Abrade slot. A "Path to Vindicate" seems to me like it would have been better as a BW card but whatever wizards...

Compared to Abrade main:
Pros
-Destroys creatures with 4+ toughness (KotR, Gurmag, Goyf, Shadow)
-Destroys Planeswalkers (mostly Jace)
-Destroys Lands (Turbo Depths and Lands matchups get a boost but also suffer greatly from the loss of Souls)
-Destroys Enchantments? (Mostly SB stuff...)
Cons
-Green instead of Red makes it harder to cast and unable to destroy Chalice/Magus past a Moon effect. Also can't target Crusader.
-Gives a basic Land (Huge drawback!)

Compared to Wear // Tear side:
Pros
-Universal answer to non-Artifact/Enchantment GY hate
Cons
-2 mana to destroy enchantments (Leylines!)
-Green instead of Red
-No 2-for-1 potential (RiP + equipment or Leyline + Mox/Jitte for example)
-Gives a basic

The matchups that appear to benefit from Trophy at first glance include:
-Delver decks because they don't pack basics
-Eldrazi Stompy if they don't pack a basic as it could be desvastating to accelerate them into a T2 Smasher by assassinating a Chalice
-Lands and Depths (but not by much if we lose Souls)
-All control decks actually get worse from losing Souls even though we can snipe PW
-All the SFM decks now get a free land when we destroy an early Thalia/Equipment

I think the card frees up a lot of design space for the deck but doesn't necessarily makes it better. Abrade does a fine job for what it's intended to do, Wear is better against the common hate cards, and Lingering Souls are part of the core. Trophy would have been more interresting if it were BW...

Definitely hit the nail on the head IMO for the pros/cons. All your points are very valid, I definitely think testing Trophy is worth it, at the end of the day it may honestly be a meta call based on what your local play group plays and if its more vulnerable to Abrade or Trophy. I'm definitely excited to have a 2 mana answer to anything.

[Qweerios]

Definitely hit the nail on the head IMO for the pros/cons. All your points are very valid, I definitely think testing Trophy is worth it, at the end of the day it may honestly be a meta call based on what your local play group plays and if its more vulnerable to Abrade or Trophy. I'm definitely excited to have a 2 mana answer to anything.

Honestly if I were to play a Jund version I would still favor Decay over Trophy mainboard and pack the Trophies in my SB. Giving a land is too much of a drawback for my taste and Decay is still uncounterable and answers all of the G1 permanents that Trophy would answer beside BSkull. Regardless, I think Jund is missing another piece of synergy that is better than Souls (Feeder + Bridge doesn't cut it IMO) for it to be a competitor to Mardu. Also, there is no equal to Wear // Tear as a postboard hate answer in Jund. To me, that is a big deal.

Another often overlooked strength of the "Mardu" configuration is that it is hardly 3 colors but a Rakdos deck that can use white mana to get more value out of Souls and answer T0 Leylines. There is a big difference between a deck that needs 2 colors to play all of its cards and 3 colors to do the same, especially without a Brainstorm/Ponder suite.

@maCHOOga

Right, you do need Feeders to abuse Bridge. I thought you meant that we needed the 3 sac outlets of Feeder regardless of Bridge. This is why I ditched Bridge altogether and went back to Gurmag. We have 8 cards that can turbo a Gurmag on T2 and the card is a godsend against some of our worst matchups (Delver and Stompy).

[Qweerios]

Small report incoming!
This weekly was a little short on attendance with under 25 players. I wanted to squeeze a 4th Wear // Tear in my Abrade/Gurmag list so I did the following changes:

Main: -1 Abrade +1 Explosives
Side: -1 Explosives -1 Duress +1 Wear +1 Coffin Purge

This leaves me with the same mainboard setup against chalice (3 answers) and gives me a 4th Wear over a 3rd Abrade in postboard games.

R1 2-1 vs. Rector Fit

G1 I get him to 3 life with a huge board but he stabilizes with Curse of Death's Hold and Overwhelming Splendor
G2 is a grindy one where I Wear Leyline of the Void and Extract it along with Rector. I eventually get there with beats
G3 he blanks my discard with his Leyline of Sanctity but I get 8 power on board by T3 and he can't deal with it.

R2 2-0 vs. Stoneblade

G1 I get that crazy 3 Therapy Bloodghast hand and shred his entire hand by T3. T1 1st Therapy him naming Brainstorm (whiff), T2 2nd Therapy me naming Ghast, play fetch, flashback 1st Therapy on him, fetch, flashback 2nd Therapy on him, cast 3rd Therapy on him. T3 play fetch, flashback 3rd Therapy on him, etc...I then race his active Jitte with 2 Ghasts 2 Crawler and Souls.
G2 Abrade gets BSK and the beats get there.

R3 2-0 vs. Stoneblade

G1 I get the same crazy 3 Therapy with an Entomb for Bloodghast opener (even better!) and he never recovers
G2 I get double Ghast and Zombardment to grind him out while I am holding 3 Wear 1 Abrade and 1 EE for anything that comes down.

R4 Draw vs. BR Reanimator (but he crushes me 3-1 in friendlies)

That matchup is horrendous. Definitely one of our worst if not the worst. Coffin Purge is a great angle of attack albeit slow. It allows us to have accessible GY hate that can't be discarded and that can be "Supplied". I will definitely have to re-evaluate my GY hate suite and consider a healthy Crypt/Purge/Surgical split.

I'll keep you posted! (As usual...)

[shonenkakumei]

FNM report from last week. 3-1 again.
I wanted to change around my list, but I was so late getting there that I just ran it as is (list and card choices at the end of the post).

R1: 2-0 vs. Grixis Control

Game 1 Supplier+Therapy provides early insane (virtual) card advantage, and Bloodghasts close the gap. Game 2 is similar, and although he Surgicals one threat Bridge from Below rebuilds fast.

R2: 2-1 vs. Bizarro Stormy

Game 1 I Thoughtseize, he Brainstorms, I take a crappy Burning Wish (thankfully not Griselbrand), and after a slow-ish start on both sides I get a huge board of Zombies in one turn off of Bridge. He end of my turn Entombs for Griselbrand and I'm dead before I can crack-back. I mix up my sideboarding a bit, in case of a Mentor post-board plan on his end--I leave in one Bombardment, bring in Abrade, all graveyard hate, 1 or 2 Wear, and an EE (maybe I hit a petal or LED, or Monk tokens). I decide to bring in Chains even though it gives him a discard outlet. Game 2 discard followed by Gurmag gets there. Game 3 he Thougtseizes a Surgical, but which leaves me with a pretty strong Zombie-engine clock. I loot into another a Surgical and cast a Chains once his hand size and life are low enough.

R3: 2-1 vs. Turbo Depths

Game one my opponent mulligans to 6 and snap-keeps. I find out why after I Thoughtseize him--Dark Depths and 2 different land tutors. I hope to draw into my one main deck Bitterblossom, which I do, but he top decks the Stage to get the Token a turn earlier than I can handle, so I scoop before he sees the card. Game 2 I draw a Bridge and a Bitterblossom. He Thoughtseizes one and Decays the other. My discard slows him down and Vampire Hexmage's first strike looks kinda bad against Bridge from Below. I cast my second Ensnaring Bridge, he Surgicals my Bitterblossom only to find it's my only copy and I get there with Lingering Souls. Game three we trade discard again, and my Lingering Souls fly over while Magus of the Moon slows him down.

R4: (Prize Split) 1-2 in the friendly games vs. Grixis Control

Game 1 my turn one Supplier mills over a Therapy and I flash it back and hit. Best feeling. After shredding my opponents hand (mainly taking cantrips) in the early turns, he floods out a bit and Bloodghasts get there. As usual, when I take the ID I end up playing way faster and looser... game 2 I keep a sketchy 1-land hand with a Faithless Looting and Chains. I should have put it back for something more proactive, on the draw. He cantrips, I Faithless Looting and see no lands but two more lootings, which I keep. He hymns me and hits both lootings and turn 3 hymns me again (hits chains) and I never see another land. He plays a Needle on Bombardment, for good measure, and we go to game three. (I was surprised he kept in the Hymns against recursive threats, but they did the job). Game three I have a fine hand, but misplay my blind therapy (I name Needle, since I had a turn two Bombardment) but I should have gone for a more probable or lock-out hit. After I see two Hymns, Liliana the Last Hope, and Jace I have to take Lili with another discard and the resolved Jace slows the game down a lot. He Surgicals my mill-over Gurmag and Bloodghasts, and I narrowly loose to a chain of Strix's defending his Jace.

LIST:

4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Entomb
2 Lingering Souls
2 Bridge from Below
2 Goblin Bombardment
1 Bitterblossom
3 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau (I don't have the second Scrubland...)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Black fetches (mix of Marsh Flats and Polluted Deltas)
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Undiscovered Paradise

SB:
2 Wear // Tear
1 Abrade
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Urborg Justice
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Coffin Purge
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Engineered Explosives

About the some card choices--

for the mana base: I wanted to try out Tower, which I have found to be pretty amazing. A sac outlet AND ramp is a huge upside. However, playing the Tower made me want to include Urborg. I'm not sure... it's definitely powerful for us to be able to leave up fetches for Bloodghast, but fixing Grixis mana for opponents and letting their Brainstorms be that much easier seems potentially punishing. I cut the second copy of Undiscovered Paradise for another basic, since I want to play 3-mana sideboard cards like Ensnaring Bridge and I want to cast them on time.

3 Entomb: I love the toolbox nature of it here, and it feels like saving sideboard space with Coffin Purge for narrow haymakers like Zealous Persecution or Chains. However, compared the raw power level of the Entomb targets in B/R it's so much lower, which, to my mind, means one should remember that it is card disadvantage. I see Stitcher's Supplier and recursive threats like Ghasts/Crawlers as card advantage, which is the point of the deck.

0 Scourge of Nel Toth: I want to try going up to one, maybe cutting a Bridge and turning the 4th Feeder into a maindeck Abrade. Basically, Gurmag seems so good I felt...why go with a less consistent option? That said, since I think of Entomb as a toolbox, Scourge seems like a great silver bullet and it's a nice thing to mill over will Supplier too.

1 Urborg Justice: This is for fun. Diabolic Edict seems more consistent, but I have to cast this once :)

@Qweerios
I agree re: Gravestone. It doesn't shore up a bad match up, and Surgical isn't unbeatable anyhow.

[Nocioni88]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/ff1e27d4435a466c49bfab9ab16639c0.png
Grim haruspex but zombie? Better then dark confidant?


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[Qweerios]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/ff1e27d4435a466c49bfab9ab16639c0.png
Grim haruspex but zombie? Better then dark confidant?


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Falls in the "unnecessary" category and Bob is strictly better. At 2 mana it would have been different...