UG Primal Ninjas for teh lulz - Can this really work?

[AceofAllan]

I don't know how it happened, but I came up with the idea to try abusing Ninjutsu by having a Primal Forcemage in play. Then I tried to throw some other things in that I could abuse with Ninjutsu, like Undying and Echo. Finally, I tried to use some Haste to use the Forcemage and still attack. I put Ranger's Guile and Mana Leaks in to protect the Forcemage. Seals of Removal are to create unblockable conditions for Ninjutsu.

I'm sure someone else has tried something like this before, and that you guys know more cards than I do, so I came here for some ideas. This is what I'm currently testing:

EDIT: Replaced Guile and Leak with Vines and Daze.
EDIT2: Replaced seals with Augury Owl.
EDIT3: Changed even more stuff. Thanks to advice I've gotten here, the deck is really rounding out. I have more protection for my Combo than I ever have, and now almost everything that enables Ninja also has a nifty CiTP ability I'll get to use again. I'm hanging onto the Strangleroot Geists because I feel like I need something that can has haste, just in case I can't draw another Ninja. I'm debating throwing Higure, the Still Wind in here, but I'm not sure he's worth the mana.


4 Hinterland Harbor
6 Forest
7 Island
4 Flooded Grove

4 Primal Forcemage
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Augury Owl
3 Coiling Oracle
3 Riftwing Cloudskate
2 Xantid Swarm
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Strangleroot Geist

2 Daze
3 Vines of Vastwood

What can I improve?

[GenioDeArena]

It seems to be a really fun deck to play!
Some thoughts thoug:
Daze could replace Mana Leak.
Vines of Vastwood for Ranger´s Guile.
Signal Pest, Silhana Edgewalker, Ornithopter, and looter Il Kor could find a place as well as great ninjitsu enablers.

[AceofAllan]

It seems to be a really fun deck to play!
Some thoughts thoug:
Daze could replace Mana Leak.
Vines of Vastwood for Ranger´s Guile.
Signal Pest, Silhana Edgewalker, Ornithopter, and looter Il Kor could find a place as well as great ninjitsu enablers.

Ok, this is exactly why I asked the question here. Vines of Vastwood is absolutely brilliant. It does exactly what Ranger's Guile does with the added benefit of being very useful on the offensive.

Daze is clearly a good idea too, as it allows me to play the Primal Forcemage on turn three and still protect him.

I like the Looter, but I'm not sure where to fit him. I used a lot of creatures with haste so that I could use the Forcemage even if I didn't get any ninjas in hand.

Thanks for the advice!

[Barook]

What about Invisible Stalker?

[AceofAllan]

What about Invisible Stalker?

Invisible Stalker and Looter Il Kor are excellent ninjutsu enablers, but they both suffer the same problem. Where can I put them?

First option is in place of the Riftwing Cloudskate. The Riftwing flies and returns a permanent, both to enable ninjutsu. Stalker and Looter are better at this role, but the Riftwing can benefit from the Forcemage without ninjutsu because of the suspend haste.

The second option would be Strangleroot Geist. The Geist has no evasion, but like the Riftwing, haste will allow me to use the Forcemage if I don't have ninjas in hand. The Geist has another synergy in that I might be able to ninja after using undying, which lets the Geist come back for another two "deaths." I worry that without haste creatures, I worry that I'll be too reliant on the ninjas.

Third option is the Ambush Viper. The Viper is there as my creature removal, and I like having answers to things. There's also this chance that he enters as a 5/4 blocker and survives to block another day, or even attack as a Deathtouch ninja enabler. Maybe I don't need creature removal, though, since I have the Mistblades and Seals of Removal.

What do you guys think? Where would you put Looters or Stalkers?

[MSC]

I would put them in the place of the seals. If you have unblockable enablers, the seals are not needed as much...

I don't know if it is casual enough, but what about 2 Vendilion Clique? It has evasion, flash (so a little bit of haste :-) ), is a great Ninjutsu-Target and has a nice little combination with Mistblade Shinobi.

[AceofAllan]

I would put them in the place of the seals. If you have unblockable enablers, the seals are not needed as much...

Genius. Not sure why I didn't think if that. I just have this irrational fear of not having something top do on turn one. I've done some testing, though, and il-kor is definitely more useful than the seals. Thanks.

The clique is good, but not enough to warrant the price tag. Two of those are worth more than this entire deck.

[AceofAllan]

Just found this one: Augury Owl. Less evasion than the Looter, but the comes into play effect has better synergy with ninjas. I found that I was never really getting to use the looter's ability.

Overall the deck is fun, but it's a little hit or miss. Any other ideas on how to tighten things up?

[MSC]

What about replacing Young Wolf and Strangleroot Geist? Undying doesn't seem to be tha abillity your searching for. Coiling Oracle or Scryb Sprites (any 1 Mana Flyer) are a nice replacement.

How has tracker's instinct been for you? I'm not sure how strong it is, but I would probably use the Slots to max out Ambush Viper.

[Zupponn]

This deck looks incredibly fun!

The Scryb Sprites would be a good idea, or similar 1 mana flyers like Flying Men, Delver of Secrets, Treetop Scout, Zephyr Sprite, or cards that fly for 1 mana and do things like Birds of Paradise and Xantid Swarm.

Spellstutter Sprite would be a great addition in my opinion, giving you a little bit of defense that's very synergistic with your basic plan.

Owl Familiar is probably worse than the Augury Owl, but it's still worth mentioning.

Cloud of Faeries is also worth mentioning as it's free and can be cycled if you need something else.

My friend was coming up with a similar idea himself, except he chose to go mono blue, but adding green seems good too.

[AceofAllan]

What about replacing Young Wolf and Strangleroot Geist? Undying doesn't seem to be tha abillity your searching for. Coiling Oracle or Scryb Sprites (any 1 Mana Flyer) are a nice replacement.

The Young Wolf is basically just a decent one drop. I do like how undying works with ninjutsu, essentially letting the creature die three times, but I agree that Scryb Sprites is a better choice. I don't want to get rid of the Strangleroot Geist just yet, because he also has haste that will make use of the Primal Forcemage.


How has tracker's instinct been for you? I'm not sure how strong it is, but I would probably use the Slots to max out Ambush Viper.

Tracker's Instinct is crap. I thought it would be help me dig for PFs, but really, it's just too expensive and it's only a sorcery. I'm playing with using Fact or Fiction in its place (I have a few of those from the JvC duel decks), but the Coiling Oracle looks like an even better option since I might be able to ninja and reuse it.


This deck looks incredibly fun!

It most certainly is. The deck is capable of some hilarious tricks. Not blocking that 1/1 Owl? Here's a 4/4 ninja that bounces one of your creatures. And I'll scry 3 again. There was one game that enabled me to ninjutsu a ninja back to my hand, only to ninjutsu that one back in for something else. Ninjas were never this good.


The Scryb Sprites would be a good idea, or similar 1 mana flyers like Flying Men, Delver of Secrets, Treetop Scout, Zephyr Sprite, or cards that fly for 1 mana and do things like Birds of Paradise and Xantid Swarm.

Treetop Scout is my favorite out of this bunch. I don't have enough sorceries and instants to use the Delver. Birds would be nice, but I've already spent $25 on a just for fun deck; would I really benefit that much to justify another $15?


Spellstutter Sprite would be a great addition in my opinion, giving you a little bit of defense that's very synergistic with your basic plan.

Cloud of Faeries is also worth mentioning as it's free and can be cycled if you need something else.

I really like these ideas too. Crap. Too many good blue options and not enough green ones. I've got some more work to do, and plenty of testing. I'll keep you guys in the loop as to what I end up with.

Thanks for all the help, both of you.

[GenioDeArena]

Im not so fond on Delver, at least for this kind of deck, after all once you managed to flip it returning it to your hand sucks preety bad.
Ill hae to insist on the Signal Pest, it may not seem like much, but deals a whole lot of damage if left unanswered.

As far as green benefits for the deck, the forcemage and Coiling aresuper powerfulll critter here. We might be missing something else, someking of creature buff. Rancor comes to mind.

[Zupponn]

I was just thinking a little while ago that creatures with fading or vanishing could work really well with the ninjutsu mechanic. The only problem is that most of the best ones are in different colors than blue and green. Keldon Marauders, Aven Riftwatcher, Calciderm, Lost Auramancers, Lavacore Elemental all might be worth a look if you wanted to change colors. The only ones that I see in your colors that might be interesting are Blastoderm and Chronozoa.

[AceofAllan]

Latest edit is up. I feel like the deck is more consistent now.

Coiling Oracle gives me card quantity and helps ramp while the Augury Owl gives me the card quality. Hopefully I get to ninja the oracle to replay him, but otherwise I'll just ninja the Owls.

Birds work for good acceleration and manafixing, but enable ninja late game. Xantid Swarm for the kill.

Spellstutter seems to be a great addition. It only takes two of them to be able to counter almost any creature hate I'm likely to see, and they act like surprise 4/4 flying blockers. What's more? I get to bounce them with ninjas.

[Cybey]

You really need Thalakos Seer.
Attack, ninjutsu, Seer leaves play, draw a card.

[rufus]

There's a UB 'rat' deck somewhere on this site which uses Ninjitsu to recycle the CiP abilities of black creatures like Ravenous Rats.

In light of that, have you considered Elvish Visionary or Nest Invader?