[Premium Article] Breaking Temporal Mastery in Legacy -- SMIP Eternal Set Review

[ScatmanX]

I'm not convinced. He wasn't playing four. How broken could it be if it isn't playing the max allotted?
TES plays only 2 Ad Nauseams. That does not mean it's not broken.
In fact, it is broken there BECAUSE they don't play 4.

[KevinTrudeau]

Third place deck: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46650

Temporal Mastery is appearing in Legacy Top 8s!

A deck with a sideboard of 15 Islands also made top eight (just to curb potential tangential discussion because of the preceding sentence, I know my comparative example is very flawed). Mastery still hasn't impressed me at all in testing.

[ScatmanX]

A deck with a sideboard of 15 Islands also made top eight (just to curb potential tangential discussion because of the preceding sentence, I know my comparative example is very flawed). Mastery still hasn't impressed me at all in testing.
That just shows how much Island is the most broken card in Legacy...

[majikal]

A deck with a sideboard of 15 Islands also made top eight (just to curb potential tangential discussion because of the preceding sentence, I know my comparative example is very flawed). Mastery still hasn't impressed me at all in testing.
It actually won the whole damn thing.

edit: it appears as though that was incorrect and has been changed. The reporting on that site is terrible.

[menace13]

The Belcher list has an actual sb and not 15 islands which was a typo. This marks the 2nd time TM has appeared in the SCG top 16. The week before has a list at 12th place.

[majikal]

The Belcher list has an actual sb and not 15 islands which was a typo. This marks the 2nd time TM has appeared in the SCG top 16. The week before has a list at 12th place.
It still says 15 Islands on the site. There is another Belcher list in 13th place that has a sideboard. But then again they also had that 15 island Belcher list in 1st place until this afternoon.

[menace13]

It still says 15 Islands on the site. There is another Belcher list in 13th place that has a sideboard. But then again they also had that 15 island Belcher list in 1st place until this afternoon.

Just noticed that. His build doesnt include BWish So I assume the 15 Island SB is correct.

[Phoenix Ignition]

The Belcher list has an actual sb and not 15 islands which was a typo. This marks the 2nd time TM has appeared in the SCG top 16. The week before has a list at 12th place.

15 Islands is accurate, he did an AMA on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/ukdir/i_played_belcher_at_the_legacy_scg_open_in/

[menace13]

15 Islands is accurate, he did an AMA on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/ukdir/i_played_belcher_at_the_legacy_scg_open_in/

Thank you, at first I thought it to be a typo and then saw the list had no Wishes.

That UW Miracle deck tho.....

Tried fitting Miracles into ThopterBalance before, but those lists are too tight to really play more than like 5. What do you take out in those lists? I feel with the mechanic you are required to run many to maximize their efficiency where opening hands with them strands you on Brainstorm and needing the increase in finding another on top.

The Miracles deck is different it plays 12 Miracles could probably fit in the 4th Temporal and Entreat. Manipulating the top of the deck is very easy to do. The deck is slow but it has some tricks with End of Turn/Instant Miracles. With the deck being all Removal, Counterspells and only 6 win conditions it can buy time to develop land drops and dig.

[lordofthepit]

Looks like some of the Virginia guys are rocking Temporal Mastery in a Team America build.

[lavafrogg]

If it lives up to the hype two months later I will never read another set review in my life.

[bradstone]

Looks like some of the Virginia guys are rocking Temporal Mastery in a Team America build.

I heard about this. Have you got the list?

[dontbiteitholmes]

I heard about this. Have you got the list?

It's in the GP Atlanta coverage

[wcm8]

Jesse Hatfield #13
Grand Prix Atlanta - Top 32

1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Ghastly Demise
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Ponder
2 Portent
1 Sylvan Library
4 Temporal Mastery
3 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana of the Veil

I posted earlier in this thread saying that BUG would be the tempo shell to benefit from the card the most, if any deck is actually going to use TM effectively. Obviously, Jesse Hatfield figured out a way to incorporate the card into such a deck.

The cards to note in this list are: Portent as Ponder 5-6 (and it also has the occasional advantageous of being able to trigger TM on an opponent's turn, screw up an opponent's next few draw steps, and also being able to cast it profitably under an active Liliana using +1 in topdeck mode.) Liliana and Sylvan Library are cost-effective ways to take advantage of multiple turns. However, as one-ofs I'd be somewhat interested in maybe fitting another copy of Liliana -- this might not be needed though with all of the filter available.

Tombstalker is perhaps the perfect creature to take advantage of multiple attack phases. It's big, it flies, and is extremely well positioned against RUG.dec. I did a little bit of testing with this list and was able to chain together two TMs with a Tombstalker on-board against a Goblins opponent who otherwise would have won with his lethal army next turn. The card occasionally gets stranded, but in these cases you just pitch to FoW if you can or try to wait to find a Brainstorm.

I would probably end up siding it out against RUG due to their density of Spell Pierces/Blasts, etc., but against 'fair' decks without so much disruption, the card can be absurd.

Not sure if this list is going to catch on, but the cat's out of the bag. TA was already the foil to RUG and just as good against combo, TM might help it have better game against its weaker matchups like the fair aggro decks.

[Finn]

I mean the following in the friendliest way possible:

I don't consider any good showing by a Hatfield to be an indicator of a card or deck's actual power.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I mean the following in the friendliest way possible:

I don't consider any good showing by a Hatfield to be an indicator of a card or deck's actual power.

I feel the opposite. The Hatfield bros have their fingers on the pulse of the format consistently. If they feel strongly enough about a deck to bring it to an event I'd give it the seal of approval sight unseen.

[nitewolf9]

I did a deck tech on this build of TA for www.gatheringmagic.com at the GP, so it should be up there by Friday or so. All of the card choices are explained in that interview, although after the GP and more testing the deathmarks need to be switched back to massacres. Temporal Mastery is a very powerful card and it is especially good with lots of fliers, giving you "broken" plays against combat oriented decks that will try to either race or grind you out. You also get Thoughtseize, which is insanely good right now. Sucks that I did the deck tech after winning 3 byes at a grinder and then proceeding to not make day 2 at the GP, but Jesse was able to represent and almost top 8'd with it.

The deck is pretty much threshold and Alix and Jesse both know a thing or two about piloting that deck.

[menace13]

I feel the opposite. The Hatfield bros have their fingers on the pulse of the format consistently. If they feel strongly enough about a deck to bring it to an event I'd give it the seal of approval sight unseen.

They clearly tested and liked what they had. Not like those guys dont know what decks are winning and being played. Dont know who else was on the TA with TMs lists but If Mr.Team America and The Hats were then I dont see how anyone can easily dismiss the lists.

[dontbiteitholmes]

They clearly tested and liked what they had. Not like those guys dont know what decks are winning and being played. Dont know who else was on the TA with TMs lists but If Mr.Team America and The Hats were then I dont see how anyone can easily dismiss the lists.

I have a lot of respect for all the NORVA crew. Back when Legacy was just becoming a format I lived in Virginia Beach and I basically harassed the local store owner into having a Legacy tournament for power. I was scared no one was going to come and Legacy would die out since there was no scene at the time in that area. Posted on the Source and the Northern Virginia guys came with 2 cars full of people. Rinse repeat for every tournament thereafter which pretty much was the only reason there was Legacy in my town. They were always way ahead of their time with decks, I think more good Legacy decks have come out of Northern Virginia than any other scene. That whole crew is everything that's right with Legacy, always looking for the next big thing instead of trying to squeeze a couple more top 8's out of last week's DTB.

[wcm8]

I did a deck tech on this build of TA for www.gatheringmagic.com at the GP, so it should be up there by Friday or so. All of the card choices are explained in that interview, although after the GP and more testing the deathmarks need to be switched back to massacres.

I'm curious about Sower of Temptation over Gilded Drake. I mean, I guess Sower can be a nice late game bomb against certain aggro decks, but against SnT/Reanimator Gilded Drake seems a tad bit better. Definitely looking forward to the article, and congrats on the grinder despite the GP.

[wcm8]

I mean the following in the friendliest way possible:

I don't consider any good showing by a Hatfield to be an indicator of a card or deck's actual power.

Barring some extreme, unlikely justifications (e.g. Hatfield cheated, all his opponents were complete scrubs/got terrible hands and draws every round, divine intervention, etc.), a deck does not simply get top 16 in a 900-person Grand Prix without having inherent power and merit, regardless of its pilot's skill level. I am hesitant to say that Temporal Mastery has 'arrived', but this may be the advent of the card's entry into true, competitive-level Legacy playability.

[KobeBryan]

Barring some extreme, unlikely justifications (e.g. Hatfield cheated, all his opponents were complete scrubs/got terrible hands and draws every round, divine intervention, etc.), a deck does not simply get top 16 in a 900-person Grand Prix without having inherent power and merit, regardless of its pilot's skill level. I am hesitant to say that Temporal Mastery has 'arrived', but this may be the advent of the card's entry into true, competitive-level Legacy playability.

You really cannot say Temporal Mastery has arrived. They are merely 4 cards in a deck. You really need to ask the Hatfields their opinion of the card, the efficiency, and the usefulness of it before saying "it has arrived"

[wcm8]

You really cannot say Temporal Mastery has arrived. They are merely 4 cards in a deck. You really need to ask the Hatfields their opinion of the card, the efficiency, and the usefulness of it before saying "it has arrived"

And that is why I prefaced my statement with saying I was hesitant to say that. FWIW, I did do a bit of testing with the deck yesterday and the card performed well. The deck probably would peform well if those TM slots were instead Spell Pierces, 4th daze, more removal, etc., but the card does serve a strategic function and is often a significant factor in winning the game.

[DLifshitz]

You really cannot say Temporal Mastery has arrived. They are merely 4 cards in a deck. You really need to ask the Hatfields their opinion of the card, the efficiency, and the usefulness of it before saying "it has arrived"

From what I read about the Hatfields on the internets, they must have tested the hell out of Temporal Mastery, and Jesse Hatfield's high finish in the GP probably only confirmed whatever conclusions they'd drawn.

[lavafrogg]

I mean the following in the friendliest way possible:

I don't consider any good showing by a Hatfield to be an indicator of a card or deck's actual power.

+1

They win with obscure decks that barely make a splash on a regular basis...see: High Tide with Candelabras, Cephalid Breakfast

[Eyynuuw Errtrolng]

+1

They win with obscure decks that barely make a splash on a regular basis...see: High Tide with Candelabras, Cephalid Breakfast

For sure. High Tide never made any waves when Time Spiral was unbanned.
So obscure.

[lavafrogg]

Make waves: yes, worth playing: no.

[dontbiteitholmes]

They win with obscure decks that barely make a splash on a regular basis...see: High Tide with Candelabras, Cephalid Breakfast

Yeah or RUG aggro, who plays that shit am I right?

[Eyynuuw Errtrolng]

Candle Tide was never worth playing. Not even when it top 8'd the GP or was all over the SCG circuit. Silly Legacy crew always looking for the new decks instead of squeezing out wins from currents winners. Totally not worth playing

[dontbiteitholmes]

And don't forget the original High Tide Legacy deck Solidarity that also came from the same crew and was top tier until Counterbalance came and ruined it's party.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Candle Tide was never worth playing. Not even when it top 8'd the GP or was all over the SCG circuit. Silly Legacy crew always looking for the new decks instead of squeezing out wins from currents winners. Totally not worth playing

Took me a second to realize the sarcasm here, I was about to respond all mad. There was a point, shortly after High Tide debuted, where it literally beat every deck in the format if the pilot was good. As a Tide player, I greatly enjoyed that time - then WOTC had to go and print Misstep and later Snapcaster and Surgical Extraction to rain on the party.