Looking for top Legacy Builders for new Format

[graft]

Hello everyone, some great players and I are working on a new eternal format called Noble. You can find the original post explaining the format here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/introducing-noble-the-format-1/. We are also creating a website that will be available in the near future.

In a nutshell, Noble decks contain 1 rare/mythic that you have access to at the beginning of the game (similar to the Commander in EDH but doesn't go back to the command zone), up to 4 uncommons, and all remaining cards are commons.

I need the best possible legacy builders to help us establish a banned list for the format. I'm not directly looking for suggestions for the banned list. Rather, I'm looking for your opinion of who on this forum are the best competitive builders, and I would very much like those users to help create the most competitive decks possible.

For the purposes of this exercise, I will ask that the deckbuilders ignore the current banned list. Make decks with Yawgmoth's Will, Glimpse of Nature, Hermit Druid, Ad Nauseam, Channel, anything. But please bear in mind that these decks will also be in competition with yours. I realize this is a strange request to make, but I am looking for competitive decks, not just decks that the average user thinks are competitive. What deck would you bring to a tournament?

So I would be very grateful if you would please let me know who the best builders are, and if you are one of these fine individuals, I would very much appreciate your help in creating the most competetive decks possible. Please either post them in this thread or create them on tappedout.net (http://tappedout.net) and refer me to them. (Noble is a selectable format on TappedOut, hence the best place to build these decks).

I very much appreciate the community's help in this endeavor. Thanks very much for your time!

[jumping salmon]

I like this format. Unbeatable goblin charbelcher decks? Sign me up!

[Malchar]

The only realistic way to make a ban list is to hold a number of tournaments, wait a while, hold more tournaments, and then (reluctantly) ban the cards that are causing problems. Starting up a new format with a day 0 ban list is very unexciting for any prospective players. Also, simply designing strong decks is no indication of what needs to be banned. You should just start holding tournaments with either no ban list, or using the legacy ban list for starters if you insist. After you have top 8 results from a number of large tournaments, you can look and clearly see if something needs to be banned.

It looks like an interesting format, and I may try to design some decks later when I have time. I'm stuck on the hard choice of whether I want to start the game with tolarian academy or mishra's workshop in play, and do I run 4x strip mine or 4x sol ring?

[DrJones]

I think magic games aren't that interesting when you can start with any one spell in your hand, due to reduced variance. Also, while I have played a few games of peasant, "almost peasant" doesn't look so different from it to be worth it.

If I were to playtest for this format, I would pick Necropotence hands down. However, I think it's futile to playtest a card already in your banned list when there are plentiful reasons for it to stay banned.

[Ziveeman]

Rough draft:

1 Forest
4 Tinder Wall
4 Wild Cantor
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Channel
3 Chromatic Star
3 Chromatic Sphere
4 Dark Ritual
4 Land Grant
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lotus Petal
4 Rite of Flame

Noble Card: 1 Goblin Charbelcher

Not sure if it's the right direction since I just came up with it just now, but I like Channel + Belcher. It's a little light on IMS but if you mulligan into a Land Grant/Simian Spirit Guide/Lotus Petal, you basically win.

[Malchar]

If you're going for charbelcher, you definitely need protection of some kind. If we sit down and I see that you have a charbelcher revealed, I'm going to mulligan into a force of will or leyline of sanctity. Of course, the ultimate trick would be to run the 1x charbelcher in an aggro deck just to make the opponents mulligan incorrectly.

[emidln]

Noble: Time Vault
Uncommons: Volatic Key
Rest of the Deck: who gives a fuck (but probably U for countermagic)

Time Vault/Voltaic Key is the most mindless, least interesting interaction in the history of magic. If you have anything goes, might as well be taking infinite turns.

Honorable Mention to Black Lotus + basically anything.

[(nameless one)]

I guess it's safe to say that Goblin Charbelcher is on the watch list.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I need the best possible legacy builders to help us establish a banned list for the format. I'm not directly looking for suggestions for the banned list. Rather, I'm looking for your opinion of who on this forum are the best competitive builders, and I would very much like those users to help create the most competitive decks possible.

So I would be very grateful if you would please let me know who the best builders are, and if you are one of these fine individuals, I would very much appreciate your help in creating the most competetive decks possible. Please either post them in this thread or create them on tappedout.net (http://tappedout.net) and refer me to them.

Oh, this will be good.

[dontbiteitholmes]

If this was a real format and the first event was coming up with no known meta I would play this...

***NOBLE***
1x Commandeer

***Lands***
16 Island

***Creatures***
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Cloud of Faeries
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Delver of Secrets

***Spells***
3 Echoing Truth
4 Preordain
1 Force Spike
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Daze

***Sideboard***
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
2 Stitched Drake
1 Intervene
3 Disrupt
2 Serrated Arrows
3 Weatherseed Faeries

The sideboard would probably change after testing, but something similar to that.



The only realistic way to make a ban list is to hold a number of tournaments, wait a while, hold more tournaments, and then (reluctantly) ban the cards that are causing problems. Starting up a new format with a day 0 ban list is very unexciting for any prospective players. Also, simply designing strong decks is no indication of what needs to be banned. You should just start holding tournaments with either no ban list, or using the legacy ban list for starters if you insist. After you have top 8 results from a number of large tournaments, you can look and clearly see if something needs to be banned.

It looks like an interesting format, and I may try to design some decks later when I have time. I'm stuck on the hard choice of whether I want to start the game with tolarian academy or mishra's workshop in play, and do I run 4x strip mine or 4x sol ring?

Well you can obviously tell a hand full of cards that need to be banned. Then you could privately hold tournaments before releasing the format then determine which cards were obviously OP and go from there. Let me go ahead and go out on a limb and say it doesn't take play testing to know that Strip Mine needs to be banned for example.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Pffft.

ClampElves:

Noble:

Leyline of Sanctity

The Rest:

4 Skullclamp

15 Forest

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Arbor Elf
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
3 Seeker of Skybreak
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Multani's Acolyte
4 Wirewood Herald
4 Timberwatch Elf
4 Elvish Branchbender

SB:

4 Nature's Claim
4 Avoid Fate
7 whatever

[emidln]

Just goldfished this. It seems pretty dumb, but I don't think it's as dumb as what you get with either Time Vault or Glimpse of Nature + free shit. Time Vault could still play protection, and I think Glimpse of Nature might be a more consistent deck (this has to keep certain 7 card hands and try to find a green source in the top 7 cards or so via cantrips sometimes). That said, Gushbond could certainly be adapted to play some amount of countermagic I think, but I'm unsure if it'd need to invest into a different win condition at that point.

4 Gush
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Ideas Unbound
4 High Tide
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Frantic Search
4 Impulse

1 Chain of Vapor
1 Grapeshot

1 Fastbond

4 Lotus Petal
4 Land Grant
12 Island
2 Forest

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Needs Frantic Search.

[graft]

Thanks for the advice and decks guys/gals, it is much appreciated. I'll provide the lists to the Noble playtest group for evaluation.


The only realistic way to make a ban list is to hold a number of tournaments, wait a while, hold more tournaments, and then (reluctantly) ban the cards that are causing problems. --snip--

I am inclined to agree with you, and this is actually how I originally posted the format. However, I'm caving to community pressure to come up with a ban list, hence my attempts so far. When I did come up with the original banned list, I took most of the legacy banned list, minus cards that were clearly not broken when they couldn't be played with other rares.


I think magic games aren't that interesting when you can start with any one spell in your hand, due to reduced variance. --snip-- If I were to playtest for this format, I would pick Necropotence hands down. However, I think it's futile to playtest a card already in your banned list when there are plentiful reasons for it to stay banned.

The format was really designed for newer players, and particularly players who can't afford a deck full of top cards. So in that respect it won't always appeal to all long-time legacy players. But it's a very quick format, and people have already taken to playing it between rounds at tournaments.


--snip--
Well you can obviously tell a hand full of cards that need to be banned. Then you could privately hold tournaments before releasing the format then determine which cards were obviously OP and go from there. Let me go ahead and go out on a limb and say it doesn't take play testing to know that Strip Mine needs to be banned for example.
I think we will attempt something along these lines once I can organize the community a bit. Once our website is up and running we will have a dedicated forum which should help us organize these events.


Thanks again for your time, everyone! Sorry if I don't reply directly to everyone (very little free time), but I definitely read and contemplate everything.

[dontbiteitholmes]

BTW: My deck was taking into account the banned list. Without that so many decks are just stupid that I wouldn't even bother showing up.

That said some of the cards in your ban list aren't immediately broken to me. A good starting point is probably the old peasant list, before the dirty french got a hold of it and banned everything that made the format fun.

[GGoober]

Awww, I read the rules makes me sad because I was going to say:

Noble: Bazaar of Baghdad
Deck: Dredge

That would be busted LOL.

[Picc]

Awww, I read the rules makes me sad because I was going to say:

Noble: Bazaar of Baghdad
Deck: Dredge

That would be busted LOL.

But not worse then, Noble: Vault mull to key, Noble:Fireball, mull to channel, Noble Tinker etc etc. Busted is very relative when were talking about what (with no banned list) is a variant of vintage.

[dontbiteitholmes]

But not worse then, Noble: Vault mull to key, Noble:Fireball, mull to channel, Noble Tinker etc etc. Busted is very relative when were talking about what (with no banned list) is a variant of vintage.

Ironically I think the more cards are banned the worse my deck is LOL.

After messing around with this for a hour or so it's too much like Peasant with an extra layer of stupid. You guys should really put your energy into offline Pauper or reintroduce Peasant.

[leegoo]

Noble: Yawgmoth's Bargain

Uncommons:
4 Tendrils of Agony

Rest of the Deck:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Petal
4 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Duress
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Frantic Search

4 Saprazzan Skerry
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Peat Bog
2 Island
2 Swamp

Quick off the top of my head, like a powered up version of TPPS... sure there's a better version that could be built. (and it's probably a bit to far to the "fair" side for a format with stuff like channel/fastbond/time vault.)

[capitacom]

Noble: Tolarian Academy
Uncommons: 4 Skullclamp

4 Myr Moonvessel
4 Vault Skirge
3 Etherium Sculptor
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Ornithopter

4 Cranial Plating
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Lotus Petal
4 Springleaf Drum

4 Frantic Search
1 Essence Harvest

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

I goldfished this deck yesterday and it was a consistent turn 2/3 win, often with drawing your entire deck to kill via disciples or a final essence harvest with cranial platings activations. And beatdown is an incredible plan B.

If you want this to become a real format I would ban the most broken stuff off the bat as now it will just be who can goldfish the fastest/most consistently. Either broken stuff or some form of protection like mindbreak trap seems the best noble. If you choose leyline of sanctity as your noble can you start with that on the battlefield?