Flayer of The Hatebound and Removal

[Norm]

If Flayer of The Hatebound is removed in response to it's trigger, would the effect be negated?

[Malchar]

I assume that you're talking about the second ability, not undying. The answer is no, it uses whatever the creature's power was the last time that it was on the battlefield.


The creature that entered the battlefield from your graveyard deals damage equal to its current power (including any +1/+1 counters it entered the battlefield with) to the target creature or player. If it's no longer on the battlefield when the ability resolves, its last known existence on the battlefield is checked to determine its power.

[Norm]

I assume that you're talking about the second ability, not undying. The answer is no, it uses whatever the creature's power was the last time that it was on the battlefield.

You're correct in that assumption, thanks!

[cdr]

112.7a. Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.

Bolded the relevant section.

[mcfarland]

I have a somewhat related question involving Tree of Redemption. The Gatherer rulings say


9/22/2011 - If Tree of Redemption isn't on the battlefield when the ability resolves, the exchange can't happen and the ability will have no effect.

Is the key difference the fact that it's an "exchange?" If so, I can't find a specific rule that outlines it. Can you help me out?

[cdr]

Yes, exchanges have their own specific rules.

701.8. Exchange
701.8a. A spell or ability may instruct players to exchange something (for example, life totals or control of two permanents) as part of its resolution. When such a spell or ability resolves, if the entire exchange can't be completed, no part of the exchange occurs.

Example: If a spell attempts to exchange control of two target creatures but one of those creatures is destroyed before the spell resolves, the spell does nothing to the other creature.

That's the rule you're looking for; both parts of an exchange have to still be there on resolution or nothing happens. You can read the rest of 701.8 (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R7018) if you want to see the other rules about exchanges.

[mcfarland]

Perfecto! Thanks.

[Trentemoller]

There is one thing you should note about the first question, if the removal is say a Tragic Slip with morbid, you turn the returned Flayer into a -8/-10 which it dies to via state based effects. Now the last information is that it has -8 power so it will not deal any damage. Unfortunately it will not give any life away for dealing negative damage but you still negate it all.