[EDH] Riku of Two Reflections

[LegacyStudent]

Sometimes I really don't understand the mindset of the Commander group at my LGS (local game store). Creating a custom banned list of cards is fine, developing a special point-system to discourage combo/prison and encourage interactive deck building is understandable, but I just can't wrap my mind around actively discouraging players from trying to win the game. This phenomenon goes beyond budget issues or hatred of land destruction spells and counterspells. Players are discouraged from running Wrath effects, attacking at all before everyone has at least one creature in play, removing cards from opponent's graveyards, dealing direct damage or draining life, and many other seemingly arbitrary rules. All of my decks up to this point have been considered too overpowered and unfun to play against.

So rather than handicap my other decks so they can participate equally in the cripple fight that is the weekly Commander night, I decided build a new deck that demonstrates the absurdity of their rules. This is a variant of the Group Hug archetype and the goal is to get the other players to turn on each other. The colors are URG, so I'm using Riku as the general since he fits the colors and his abilities are somewhat relevant (plus there are no URG Legendary Trolls).

General: Riku of Two Reflections

Creatures (19)
Boldwyr Heavyweights
Braids, Conjurer Adept
Deadeye Navigator
Eternal Witness
Fauna Shaman
Fertilid
Genesis
Haze Frog
Heartwood Storyteller
Hunted Wumpus
Imperial Recruiter
Iwamori of the Open Fist
Kami of the Crescent Moon
Lore Broker
Magus of the Vineyard
Nephalia Smuggler
Noble Benefactor
Veteran Explorer
Tempting Wurm

Artifacts (8)
Anvil of Bogardan
Crystal Shard
Expedition Map
Font of Mythos
Helm of Awakening
Horn of Greed
Howling Mine
Temple Bell

Instants (8)
Chord of Calling
Crop Rotation
Mystical Tutor
Summoner's Pact
Vision Skeins
Wheel and Deal
Words of Wisdom
Worldly Tutor

Sorcery (24)
Clear the Land
Collective Voyage
Deep Reconnaissance
Eureka
Far Wanderings
Farseek
Green Sun's Zenith
Hypergenesis
Merchant Scroll
Minds Aglow
New Frontiers
Personal Tutor
Primal Command
Prosperity
Reforge the Soul
Show and Tell
Skyscribing
Stronghold Gambit
Sylvan Scrying
Sylvan Tutor
Timetwister
Weird Harvest
Wheel of Fortune
Windfall

Enchantment (5)
Eladamri's Vineyard
Heartbeat of Spring
Mana Flare
Rites of Flourishing
Survival of the Fittest

Land (35)
High Market
Homeward Path
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Wooded Foothills
Verdant Catacombs
Windswept Heath
Misty Rainforest
Polluted Delta
Flooded Strand
Scalding Tarn
Tropical Island
Taiga
Breeding Pool
Stomping Ground
Command Tower
11 Forest
6 Island
3 Mountain

The goal is to help out my opponents as much as possible, then sit back with the popcorn while they freak out when an indestructible creature is played off an early Show and Tell or whatever perceived grievance is committed. Of course, this idea could always backfire and I involuntarily participate in yet another circle jerk, but the risk is worth the reward.

This is a first draft so I'm sure that there are some obscure cards I missed. Any suggestions?

[Aggro_zombies]

Is Evacuation a no-go? Giving your opponents back all their dudes with CiP abilities seems decent.

Alternately, you could really fuck things up and run stuff like Grip of Chaos under the excuse that it keeps people from unfairly targeting one another. No one wants to be the target of all the hate!

EDIT: Scrambleverse seems sufficiently obnoxious.

[Kuma]

Any suggestions?

Find a new group. Why you would even want to play in such a group is beyond me.

[Aggro_zombies]

Find a new group. Why you would even want to play in such a group is beyond me.
Alternately, find anyone at the store who is as dissatisfied as you are and start a separate group with them. If the LGS is the only big scene in town (or the only one that isn't based around a closed group of friends), he might not be able to find someone else without quitting the format.

That said, in my experience, trying to fix broken playgroups by fighting fire with fire doesn't work: people either miss the point or get whiny, and nothing changes.

[Bignasty197]

Is Bribery considered too overpowered for that group? I ask because I had someone flip the fuck out on me and curse me out because I Bribery'd his Blightsteel and killed him with it that turn. If the people in your group don't act like this, Bribery is such a bad ass card that I feel is an auto-include for blue.

[Nihil Credo]

Is Animar on their banned list? Because otherwise it could be fun to use an ostensibly 'fair' nearly-all-creature list to bore the everliving hell out of them. Won't change their mind, of course, but it seems a decent shot at trolling.

[LegacyStudent]

Is Evacuation a no-go? Giving your opponents back all their dudes with CiP abilities seems decent.

Alternately, you could really fuck things up and run stuff like Grip of Chaos under the excuse that it keeps people from unfairly targeting one another. No one wants to be the target of all the hate!

EDIT: Scrambleverse seems sufficiently obnoxious.

I want to be very careful that none of the other players feel slighted by my effects in order to keep the focus of attention off of myself. The best way that I've found to do that is to give these people options. For example: if any of my opponents had a Verdant Force and a Trained Armodon in play, they would much rather be hit with Diabolic Edict than Smother even though the outcome would be the same. Evacuation doesn't give them choices, which could cause problems since my main plan involves resolving cards like Tempting Wurm and Eureka. Curfew might have potential though. The players that don't have CiP creatures can just bounce their cheapest one and if I have the Wurm out, I can bounce it and recast it after refilling everyone's hand via Prosperity effects.


That said, in my experience, trying to fix broken playgroups by fighting fire with fire doesn't work: people either miss the point or get whiny, and nothing changes.
I'm not fighting fire with fire, I'm fighting it with piss; Indentured, Tempting, Boldwyr piss. The kind of piss that clogs toilet bowls.


Is Bribery considered too overpowered for that group? I ask because I had someone flip the fuck out on me and curse me out because I Bribery'd his Blightsteel and killed him with it that turn. If the people in your group don't act like this, Bribery is such a bad ass card that I feel is an auto-include for blue.
Bribery is allowed, but goes against the theme of the deck. I don't want to have a threatening board, I want everyone else to have a threatening board.


Is Animar on their banned list? Because otherwise it could be fun to use an ostensibly 'fair' nearly-all-creature list to bore the everliving hell out of them. Won't change their mind, of course, but it seems a decent shot at trolling.
Animar is legal, but the deck you suggest sounds like the type of deck that this playgroup advocates, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

[Aggro_zombies]

I'm not fighting fire with fire, I'm fighting it with piss; Indentured, Tempting, Boldwyr piss. The kind of piss that clogs toilet bowls.
What I meant was, "There's a pretty good chance people at this LGS actually enjoy playing against this deck, since idiots who advocate 'EDH as Core Set Limited but worse' tend to enjoy Helper, so this plan has a high chance of doing nothing but making you more tilted because your master plan to make everyone miserable has backfired." My general experience with bad playgroups has been that trying to show them through playing unsubtly obnoxious decks doesn't ever work; they either like your deck and nothing changes, or they feel victimized by your deck and nothing changes.

Shitty playgroups with bad house rules exist that way for a reason: the people within them collectively want to play that kind of EDH game, and it's up to you to either convince them otherwise or come up with different arrangements. I don't think a group this far gone is open to convincing, so you may just want to poach similarly annoyed people from the LGS and start your own group or post around on various forums looking for other people who play EDH in your area.

[Koby]

Just take infinite turns - that falls within the rules right? Then attack everyone with Predator Ooze over 50 turns just for rub-ins.

[LegacyStudent]

I took the deck out for spin the other day, and the night was definitely a success. I ended up in a pod staring down a Stonebrow, Krosan Hero deck, a Thraximundar deck, and an unsleeved (guy is saving up money for sleeves) Horde of Notions deck. I win the die roll like a champ and draw a no-lander opening. Fortunately my fellow podmates explained that I could take as many free mulligans as I wanted :cool: so I throw it back and keep the next hand:

Forest
Island
Windswept Heath
Magus of the Vineyard
Heartbeat of Spring
Rites of Flourishing
Anvil of Bogardan

I lead off with Forest into Magus wherein I am required to explain that each player now receives GG into their pool on their first main phase. No, not me, them. Yes, receiving the mana is not optional. No, they aren't allowed to choose the colors. Yes, they can use the mana to cast spells. No, it's not a trick. No, I already said that I don't get mana. Yes, I'm sure. I then pass the turn. Next up is the Horde of Notions player (henceforth referred to as Spanky), who draws for the turn and plays a land, and some irrelevant artifact. Next up is Stonebrow (a.k.a. Cheesy) who plays a land and some irrelevant creature. Finally we have Thraximundar (a.k.a Jibjab) who plays a Reliquary Tower and passes.

I draw Indentured Djinn and play Rites of Flourishing dropping Island, Heath fetching Taiga, and finally casting Anvil of Bogardan (fuck you Reliquary Tower!). After explaining that we now draw 3, discard 1, add GG to our pools, can play an additional land, and have no maximum hand size, Cheesy attempts to give me a high-five but cannot reach across the table and reluctantly settles for a thumbs up instead. Spanky takes his turn and drops more irrelevant artifacts. Cheesy, in his excitement at all of the cards he's drawing, forgets that this is only the second turn and attacks Jibjab for some irrelevant amount of damage. Oops. Ladies and gentlemen, we have just witnessed a social contract breach via a violation of the early game mutual nonaggression pact. Jibjab glares daggers at Cheesy while Spanky twiddles his mustache wearing a disapproving frown.

Cheesy attempts to make amends through promises of future reparations, but the damage has been done. Jibjab untaps for his turn and draws and discards, then drops a single land before moving to his discard phase. As a sign of good will, Cheesy mentions that Jibjab still hasn’t used his additional mana or land drop for the turn. It turns out that Jibjab can’t cast anything and he doesn’t have any more lands…awkward. I succeed in cheering him up by pointing out that he doesn’t discard due to Anvil and then politely decline a Naruto headband-wrapped fistpound.

I untap, draw three, discard, and drop another land along with Heartbeat of Spring and Fauna Shaman, pass. Spanky dumps the rest of his hand, which includes several Myrs along with other artifacts from Scars of Mirroden, pass to Cheesy. Cheesy casts his general and some random fatty and passes. Intending to make sure that Jibjab gets in on the action as well, I Wheel and Deal at the end of Cheesy’s turn which refills Spanky’s hand, adds a few to Cheesy’s hand, and gives Jibjab a new set to work from. Jibjab draws, discards, and drops two lands this time, along with Cast Through Time. My next turn consists of activating Fauna Shaman to fetch and play Tempting Wurm.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNuj8plpbuwPkKYZrT4glPKAkx1SuzlrYgGsj2koJGHxo2YGp7

Spanky once again drops his whole hand, the only noteworthy artifact being Platinum Emperion. Cheesy plays several large fatties, including Rampaging Baloths and Boartusk Liege. Jibjab drops Sheoldred, Whispering One and Kaervek the Merciless. Argument over the power level of Emperion ensues. I pass the turn to Spanky, who sacrifices a random creature and casts his general, Horde of Notions into Kaervek (which I remind Jibjab triggers), and back to the command zone it goes. Cheesy, declaring that I’m getting too powerful, makes several more via Baloth landfall triggers and attacks both me and Jibjab for damage. Jibjab angrily blocks with Sheoldred while claiming Spanky to be the biggest threat at the table due to his Emperion. This last attack seems to have been Jibjab's breaking point of transgressions, and he announces that he is now solely targeting Cheesy.

Shit is getting real! Jibjab plays a series of irrelevant spells, doming Cheesy with each spell via Kaervek. I pitch another creature to Fauna Shaman and tutor up Boldwyr Heavyweights, casting it. Spanky and Jibjab grabs more irrelevance while Cheesy, buckling under the pressure of Jibjab's hit list commits yet another unforgivable cardinal sin by grabbing Darksteel Colossus. With the rest of the table now firmly against him, I play out the rest of my hand, all of the damage from the spells chipping away at Cheesy’s life total. Spanky contributes as many spells as he can on his turn, and the turn goes back to Cheesy. He begins casting creatures, until he realizes that he will kill himself and cuts it off as his life hits two. Unfortunately for Spanky, one of Cheesy's creatures was an Acidic Slime which hits the Emperion and allows Spanky to attack everyone for lethal. I exit stage left as the postgame shitstorm begins.

Now that I’ve been through a game in the field, I found several cards were lackluster and need to be removed. Several cards like Indentured Djinn sound good on paper, but in practice I never really wanted to cast them. The takeaways from this game were as follows:

-Tempting Wurm and Boldwyr Heavyweights accomplish the goal of the deck far better than the other creatures.

-Draw 7 effects are very powerful in this style of deck.

-Blink and bounce effects for the Wurm and Giants seems better than the more expensive tutors and similar effects.

-Indentured Djinn
-Tooth and Nail
+Haze Frog
+Crystal Shard

I'm removing a lackluster creature effect in the deck in exchange for a tutorable fog effect to save me in case anyone in the pod ever decides to take me out too early. Crystal Shard also has great synergy with the deck, whereas Tooth and Nail is too expensive for the effect it gives.

-Birthing Pod
-Gate to the Aether
+Deadeye Navigator
+Nephalia Smuggler

More blink effects!

-Standstill
+Timetwister

With Timetwister I don't need to worry about an opponent accidentally responding to the Standstill trigger with another spell. It is also a much more powerful effect.

-Explosive Vegetation
-Rampant Growth
-Miren, the Moaning Well
+Fertilid
+Forest
+Homeward Path

I'm adding an additional land over the growth effects as well as adding more creatures to help turn on Fauna Shaman and Survival. I only need a single land as a sac outlet for my creatures, and Homeward Path counters Gilded Drake, Bribery and other unfun effects. :cool:

OP List updated.

[new_world_order]

Greetings!

As a long time edh player (im old school i will never accept commander), i feel your frustrations with the group that you play with. However, i feel the strategy and direction you are taking with your deck is wrong. I definitely agree with you that LD, counterspells, early solid creature plays are part of the game. Make no mistake, i feel each of these mechanics exploit the best concepts of each color. I do also understand that edh is free for all and there are politics and i like that aspect. It makes every game unique and interesting. I also do not care for the complainers, in which case when this happens, i focus all of my decks power in defeating them. Whinning is an annoyance because lets face it, in the end, we are all trying to win.

I made a pretty awesome combo deck, because in reality the only winning edh deck is lock out or combo. However, at my club i am a big fan of greater interaction, ie cards that utelize all the mechanics of the stack to their fullest potential. I understand your pains because in reality a group like that is hard to come by. So, when i am not playing for money or competively or for prizes or what have you, i side out a lot of cards that enable my combos, but that dont nerf my deck. For example, classically kiki jiki and pestermite are both good cards on their own, but when paired together, they become something completely different. I would then make the cut of pestermite in lieu of something different such as pongify. A strong card, not degenerate.

Stay posi, bro. There are others out there like yourself. Keep dominating and lead by example and make friends. Maybe i will post my riku deck here so you can see the rout i took.




I took the deck out for spin the other day, and the night was definitely a success. I ended up in a pod staring down a Stonebrow, Krosan Hero deck, a Thraximundar deck, and an unsleeved (guy is saving up money for sleeves) Horde of Notions deck. I win the die roll like a champ and draw a no-lander opening. Fortunately my fellow podmates explained that I could take as many free mulligans as I wanted :cool: so I throw it back and keep the next hand:

Forest
Island
Windswept Heath
Magus of the Vineyard
Heartbeat of Spring
Rites of Flourishing
Anvil of Bogardan

I lead off with Forest into Magus wherein I am required to explain that each player now receives GG into their pool on their first main phase. No, not me, them. Yes, receiving the mana is not optional. No, they aren't allowed to choose the colors. Yes, they can use the mana to cast spells. No, it's not a trick. No, I already said that I don't get mana. Yes, I'm sure. I then pass the turn. Next up is the Horde of Notions player (henceforth referred to as Spanky), who draws for the turn and plays a land, and some irrelevant artifact. Next up is Stonebrow (a.k.a. Cheesy) who plays a land and some irrelevant creature. Finally we have Thraximundar (a.k.a Jibjab) who plays a Reliquary Tower and passes.

I draw Indentured Djinn and play Rites of Flourishing dropping Island, Heath fetching Taiga, and finally casting Anvil of Bogardan (fuck you Reliquary Tower!). After explaining that we now draw 3, discard 1, add GG to our pools, can play an additional land, and have no maximum hand size, Cheesy attempts to give me a high-five but cannot reach across the table and reluctantly settles for a thumbs up instead. Spanky takes his turn and drops more irrelevant artifacts. Cheesy, in his excitement at all of the cards he's drawing, forgets that this is only the second turn and attacks Jibjab for some irrelevant amount of damage. Oops. Ladies and gentlemen, we have just witnessed a social contract breach via a violation of the early game mutual nonaggression pact. Jibjab glares daggers at Cheesy while Spanky twiddles his mustache wearing a disapproving frown.

Cheesy attempts to make amends through promises of future reparations, but the damage has been done. Jibjab untaps for his turn and draws and discards, then drops a single land before moving to his discard phase. As a sign of good will, Cheesy mentions that Jibjab still hasn’t used his additional mana or land drop for the turn. It turns out that Jibjab can’t cast anything and he doesn’t have any more lands…awkward. I succeed in cheering him up by pointing out that he doesn’t discard due to Anvil and then politely decline a Naruto headband-wrapped fistpound.

I untap, draw three, discard, and drop another land along with Heartbeat of Spring and Fauna Shaman, pass. Spanky dumps the rest of his hand, which includes several Myrs along with other artifacts from Scars of Mirroden, pass to Cheesy. Cheesy casts his general and some random fatty and passes. Intending to make sure that Jibjab gets in on the action as well, I Wheel and Deal at the end of Cheesy’s turn which refills Spanky’s hand, adds a few to Cheesy’s hand, and gives Jibjab a new set to work from. Jibjab draws, discards, and drops two lands this time, along with Cast Through Time. My next turn consists of activating Fauna Shaman to fetch and play Tempting Wurm.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNuj8plpbuwPkKYZrT4glPKAkx1SuzlrYgGsj2koJGHxo2YGp7

Spanky once again drops his whole hand, the only noteworthy artifact being Platinum Emperion. Cheesy plays several large fatties, including Rampaging Baloths and Boartusk Liege. Jibjab drops Sheoldred, Whispering One and Kaervek the Merciless. Argument over the power level of Emperion ensues. I pass the turn to Spanky, who sacrifices a random creature and casts his general, Horde of Notions into Kaervek (which I remind Jibjab triggers), and back to the command zone it goes. Cheesy, declaring that I’m getting too powerful, makes several more via Baloth landfall triggers and attacks both me and Jibjab for damage. Jibjab angrily blocks with Sheoldred while claiming Spanky to be the biggest threat at the table due to his Emperion. This last attack seems to have been Jibjab's breaking point of transgressions, and he announces that he is now solely targeting Cheesy.

Shit is getting real! Jibjab plays a series of irrelevant spells, doming Cheesy with each spell via Kaervek. I pitch another creature to Fauna Shaman and tutor up Boldwyr Heavyweights, casting it. Spanky and Jibjab grabs more irrelevance while Cheesy, buckling under the pressure of Jibjab's hit list commits yet another unforgivable cardinal sin by grabbing Darksteel Colossus. With the rest of the table now firmly against him, I play out the rest of my hand, all of the damage from the spells chipping away at Cheesy’s life total. Spanky contributes as many spells as he can on his turn, and the turn goes back to Cheesy. He begins casting creatures, until he realizes that he will kill himself and cuts it off as his life hits two. Unfortunately for Spanky, one of Cheesy's creatures was an Acidic Slime which hits the Emperion and allows Spanky to attack everyone for lethal. I exit stage left as the postgame shitstorm begins.

Now that I’ve been through a game in the field, I found several cards were lackluster and need to be removed. Several cards like Indentured Djinn sound good on paper, but in practice I never really wanted to cast them. The takeaways from this game were as follows:

-Tempting Wurm and Boldwyr Heavyweights accomplish the goal of the deck far better than the other creatures.

-Draw 7 effects are very powerful in this style of deck.

-Blink and bounce effects for the Wurm and Giants seems better than the more expensive tutors and similar effects.

-Indentured Djinn
-Tooth and Nail
+Haze Frog
+Crystal Shard

I'm removing a lackluster creature effect in the deck in exchange for a tutorable fog effect to save me in case anyone in the pod ever decides to take me out too early. Crystal Shard also has great synergy with the deck, whereas Tooth and Nail is too expensive for the effect it gives.

-Birthing Pod
-Gate to the Aether
+Deadeye Navigator
+Nephalia Smuggler

More blink effects!

-Standstill
+Timetwister

With Timetwister I don't need to worry about an opponent accidentally responding to the Standstill trigger with another spell. It is also a much more powerful effect.

-Explosive Vegetation
-Rampant Growth
-Miren, the Moaning Well
+Fertilid
+Forest
+Homeward Path

I'm adding an additional land over the growth effects as well as adding more creatures to help turn on Fauna Shaman and Survival. I only need a single land as a sac outlet for my creatures, and Homeward Path counters Gilded Drake, Bribery and other unfun effects. :cool:

OP List updated.

[Fo0kinz]

I did something very similar to this on Cockatrice, because so many people are opposed to the most powerful strategies in EDH. I wanted to build a hug deck that was built not only to help the others, but to utilize the resources that I gain more effectively than anyone else at the table. Our lists look very similar, I'll post mine later today when I get home, but the win-con in the deck was a storming into Mind's Desire or Ignite Memories. I played very few creatures, and significantly more counterspells, but the fundamental idea was the same. I really enjoyed the deck, because it actually takes a lot of thought to play, and while most people aren't exactly happy to watch you storm, chaining Turnabout effects and hand cycling, they prefer it to a Tooth and Nail entwined with counterspell backup.