Elephant in the Room: The Casual-Competitive Schism

[metamet]

Elephant in the Room: The Casual-Competitive Schism (http://www.quietspeculation.com/2012/05/elephant-in-the-room-the-casual-competitive-schism/)

Carl's article is largely focused on Commander/EDH, but it's an interesting dynamic to cross-apply to Legacy. Legacy is one of THE most competitive formats, but I still see people show up at my local Legacy B&M with relatively "casual" decks, rocking Standard Zombies or older archetypes.

And they inevitably lose out.

Anyone have experiences with these types of players? I always feel bad T2'ing a Show and Tell'ed Emrakul or countering all their vital spells when they're out for a good time.

[jrw1985]

Show them no mercy, just don't be a dick about it. They'll either stop showing up or step-up their game.

[sillyandrew]

I think the appeal here, both in legacy, and in edh, is "wait, I can play ANY card I want?" you have players building the best possible deck, with optimal card choices and expensive rarities at the same time you have players building the ultimate pet decks with their all-time favorite 60 cards from the past fifteen years.

also, from time to time, occasionally a casual deck ends up being good enough to compete. the vast majority of teir decks needed to evolve a hundred times to get to the status they are now, and "building from the ground up" in magic means "building from the kitchen table up."

I see this all the time at my local shop's weekly legacy event. it runs alongside a standard event, and while most of us run pretty tuned, competitive decks, occasionally a player from the standard side of the room decides to switch formats for the night so he can play with the cards he misses since the last rotation.

admitadly, i too have considered playing casual decks in said legacy event. the five dollar entry fee is a small price to pay for the chance to play your favorite deck against competent opponents who aren't your two friends across the dining room table, over and over again, rotating through the same three decks, until four in the morning.

if I go into an event expecting to get totally blown out, and I can manage to steal a game or two, I feel fantastic. I'm not suggesting we all pay money to register bad decks, but there are so many half-way decent casual decks on my shelf that are covered in dust...

[DragoFireheart]

The problem is that the people on either extreme of this issue are actually of the same mindset. Instead of just playing the game, they’re interested in making other people play the game their way, because theirs is the “correct’ way.

...

There are three solutions that I think are the best ways to prepare for this situation. The simplest is to have different decks at different power levels, which is the solution I’ve taken to.

- So his solution to how people trying to make other people play their way is to play his way by keeping multiple decks to appease the current player he's playing against?

[Koby]

The best way to alleviate this problem is to state exactly what you're going for.

"I need to test for the upcoming <Dual draft/SCG open/GP/beat my friend's Elf deck>" and play accordingly.

[Star|Scream]

- So his solution to how people trying to make other people play their way is to play his way by keeping multiple decks to appease the current player he's playing against?

This

(I believe) the real solution is to not complain while playing EDH. If your deck goes off after only playing 20 minutes and we couldn't stop it, then congrats! Now let's start a new game. But in the same vein, don't be upset when I counter that broken thing you're casting.

[Tombstalker]

sillyandrew said it well enough, there are plenty of good casual decks that can win "on any given sunday" even against legacys finest. I enjoy playing with and against personal innovations because it tests my skills and keeps it interesting. Ya I netdeck too but that really just stemmed from my desire to experience what it would be like to pilot 'a fine tuned machine' of the greatest format ever. I was not disappointed and a few thousand dollars later im still here! However I too keep less competitive decks sleeved for more casual occasions because as broad as the general legacy metagame is, there are still predictable decks with predictable plays that we all build in anticipation of so its refreshing to get blown out by a fucking jank card sometimes.

[Leftconsin]

I ran into a guy that basically just wanted to masturbate in public (goldfish his combo deck in a game). I'm primarily playing control right now and everything I did he'd bitch about. He comboed off the table on turn 7 and then complained that he would have done it on turn 3 if I had not interacted with him. I've wandered off into that extreme. Guys like him are why I'm running control. I'm trying to slow that game down. In fact, I pretty much don't have a serious win condition other than my general.

[Vacrix]

This

(I believe) the real solution is to not complain while playing EDH. If your deck goes off after only playing 20 minutes and we couldn't stop it, then congrats! Now let's start a new game. But in the same vein, don't be upset when I counter that broken thing you're casting.
One of my local stores actually banned Reap and Sow a while back because nobody wanted to play against it. Honestly, I find it a bit pathetic that people aren't willing to do something as simple as adapt to the metagame when their snowflake starts melting.

[Aggro_zombies]

- So his solution to how people trying to make other people play their way is to play his way by keeping multiple decks to appease the current player he's playing against?
I don't get what you're arguing here. Are you objecting to him making suggestions because he's jamming them down your throat or something? I'm honestly confused.

And anyway, this is something I do all the time. I have a spectrum of decks and pull out whichever one I think will be most appropriate for the group I'm playing against (and if there's no preference, whichever one I'm in the mood to play).

[TsumiBand]

And anyway, this is something I do all the time. I have a spectrum of decks and pull out whichever one I think will be most appropriate for the group I'm playing against (and if there's no preference, whichever one I'm in the mood to play).

Right? I thought everybody did this.

For my part, everyone could stand a little closer to the middle. Players on both sides bitch and whine and moan that the game is always 'X'. It's not. There's clearly several different formats and reasons to play those formats. Some people genuinely just see a game when they look at Magic.

One thing I wish the author had touched on was that, while the older players could stand to act a little less serious from time to time and adjust their playstyle accordingly, new kids need to be willing to crowd a little closer to the center too. It's hard to really write an article that will affect newer players, but it's tough to get some new players to understand that what they are doing isn't going to work, no matter how much Heart Of The Cards they ate for breakfast this morning. Storeowners that ban Reap and Sow don't exactly help matters any.

My local card shop could have pandered to n00bs when they hosted regular Creature Feature events, but instead they decided that a regular Legacy banned list was fine - right down to dumb stuff like Engineered Plague and Tsabo's Decree. If your random weenie rush deck can't get past a dumb Engineered Plague or win before Tsabo's Decree comes down, I guess maybe you deserve to go back to the drawing board. And believe it or not, Goblins and Elves got hated out to the point where they just weren't getting played anymore. There was good money (store credit) riding on it, and the best tribal decks in the format were just not playable. People actually started making better decks. It was fucking weird.

Maybe the real moral of the story is that nobody will act like an adult unless they need to. Treat suckers with respect, but force them to man up and bring something real, and don't piss and bitch when your deck gets hated out.

[DragoFireheart]

I don't get what you're arguing here. Are you objecting to him making suggestions because he's jamming them down your throat or something? I'm honestly confused.


I'm objecting to the fact that to solve the problem he essentially commits the very same problem. If your solution for avoiding others trying to tell you what to do is to be told what to do...

[Aggro_zombies]

I'm objecting to the fact that to solve the problem he essentially commits the very same problem. If your solution for avoiding others trying to tell you what to do is to be told what to do...
And what do you propose as an alternative, then?

[nedleeds]

I bring interesting decks mostly. If I want to win money at the free weekly tourney I bring a good deck. It's more satisfying to top 4 with Soldiers, or Chains, or Candelabra Enchantress but it's not always going to happen. Deal. The end.

[DragoFireheart]

And what do you propose as an alternative, then?

I would propose that if there is a problem with someone, speak to them and work out a compromise that you can both agree to. If a compromise can't be reached, don't play together.

[Aggro_zombies]

I would propose that if there is a problem with someone, speak to them and work out a compromise that you can both agree to. If a compromise can't be reached, don't play together.
I see. However, this isn't always an option, especially in transient playgroups or in groups wherein some people have limited means. Not playing with someone is a bit of a draconian solution, especially when you can easily meet people halfway with a collection of decks. It's not like you're surrendering to them or anything.

[dahcmai]

I still tell casual players how to hate out the normal Legacy types.

I lead them into Pyrostatic Pillars, Chalice of the Void, Trinispheres, and other cards that just drive people crazy that are used to picking up a list off SCG and just playing the deck as is.

It's fun as hell to have casual players playing cards that screw up the typical tier one decks. There's so many things that accidentally hose the crap out of decks with a single card that you would never play normally since they are just narrow.

Things that people have to pick up a read are the best. Arboria and crap like that can throw people for a loop. I had a guy play with a few Harmonic Convergences in his deck since I knew there were 3 Enchantress players in the room. Truly Priceless. You knew when it came up game 1. Go go new guy.

I used to be notorious for playing a maindeck Pyroblast for kicks myself. too fun.