View Full Version : [Brainstorming] Griselbargain
phazonmutant
05-27-2012, 11:57 AM
http://www.arsenalamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Count-Chocula.jpg
It's Yawgmoth's Bargain, but in chocolatey Count form! New "official" name!
The only decklist I could find for a Bargain deck (before it was banned / restricted) is here (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/bb45), so I think we're starting fresh.
The thought is to start somewhat similar to ANT. Here's where I am right now (after a few practice matches):
4 Griselbrand
4 Tendrils of Agony
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Past in Flames
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Preordain
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
The deck feels very powerful and is reasonably consistent with so many cantrips.
Some thoughts:
Show & Tell - This is basically a super ritual. The nice thing about this is that it's a must-counter, but you can always ritual into Griselbrand next turn.
Tendrils of Agony - I'm thinking 4 of these suckers because mini-Tendrils are perfectly legitimate and acceptable when you're bargaining.
Cantrips - The only reason ANT is a deck. Allows you to find what you need, including lands.
Some advantages over other storm combo decks:
- You're not all-in. S&T is a must-counter, but so is Griselbrand, and you're not dumping your entire hand to attempt to resolve an Infernal Tutor. The deck is able to effortlessly reload
- Many decks have no way to effectively deal with Griselbrand. Canadian Thresh can't do a damn thing, Stoneblade Swords'ing it is very marginal, etc. We're not even talking about Bargaining
- You get to run Force. High Tide and the other S&T decks really showcase the value in running a reactive defense card.
- You can more consistently draw more cards than Ad Nauseam. I've killed myself drawing a mere 7ish cards off Ad Nauseam by flipping Tendrils + IGG or a bunch of Cabal Rituals, etc.
Downsides:
- You don't get to run LED. I think Infernal Tutor takes the deck in a more all-in direction for no real increase in speed or consistency, but without an use for the discard, LED gets much worse.
- Doing a tendrils for 20 is pretty difficult without Griselbrand (although double tendrils is doable).
Any thoughts?
rxavage
05-27-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm trying to work something out myself. I started with mono B but in testing it was inconsistent, the deck wins fast... when it wins.
pryite199
05-27-2012, 01:14 PM
I would recommend trying to find room for Soul Spike in there since its essentially mini Tendrils that would allow you to chain more draws of Griselbrand for free. Perhaps cut the Past in Flames and some number of Tendrils of Agony?
rxavage
05-27-2012, 01:24 PM
I would recommend trying to find room for Soul Spike in there since its essentially mini Tendrils that would allow you to chain more draws of Griselbrand for free. Perhaps cut the Past in Flames and some number of Tendrils of Agony?
Soul spike is awesome with griselbrand. I was also using spoils of the vault in the monoB build I was testing.
Here is the u/b list I'm toying with now:
4 Griselbrand
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Soul Spike
4 Thoughtseize
3 Exhume
4 Tendrils of Agony
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Polluted Delta
2 Mist Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacomb
4 Underground sea
1 swamp
1 island
LED-->Exhume on stack, crack LED in response discarding Gris, Exhume resolves reanimating Gris.
John Cox
05-27-2012, 02:39 PM
I think in this deck you would still want four infernal tutor. Even if you just took AnT and subbed Ad nauseam with Griselbrand you would be off to a good start.
phazonmutant
05-28-2012, 10:46 AM
I think in this deck you would still want four infernal tutor. Even if you just took AnT and subbed Ad nauseam with Griselbrand you would be off to a good start.
A lot of times with storm decks, just subbing a card without rethinking how the deck works doesn't work very well. IF -> Griselbrand is a ton of mana. By removing the constraint to only have low CMC spells in your deck because of Ad Nauseam, you can play more Bargains and more ways to win. In a lot of matches, ANT boards out an AN and boards in an extra Tendrils to play around Force of Will, this is the same idea.
But Tutor allows you to play LED, which is obviously good. Do you have any idea how to work Griselbrand more organically into a deck with IF?
rxavage -
I tried your decklist out for a couple of matches against a couple of archetypes. I feel like it needs to choose a plan - if I wanted to reanimate Griselbrand, I'd play reanimator; and if I wanted to play fast storm combo with only 13 lands, I'd play TES. LED -> Exhume is all-in, why would you have Force of Will in a deck that wants to play LED? And trying to get to 3 mana for S&T (and really, 4 because you want to play around Daze) with only 13 lands was pretty difficult. Your Griselbrands were worse too because you had no IMS - Petals or Chrome Mox - so it was more difficult to win when he came into play.
I honestly was not impressed with Soul Spike. If the black cards I was pitching were rituals, I just wanted to play them to Tendrils. Sure, it was nice to pitch clunkers like Exhume, but I'd rather not have them in the deck in the first place.
Maybe a couple of them are good because you might draw extra Griselbrands and Thoughtseizes...but I don't think there's that many black cards you wouldn't just rather play.
Thanks for the ideas! Sorry if I sound super negative :(
I'm going to try a couple Chrome Mox for faster starts and more IMS
How about Lim Dul's Vault as a tutor? They are nice fodder for Chrome Mox if you play that already.
phazonmutant
05-30-2012, 08:19 AM
How about Lim Dul's Vault as a tutor? They are nice fodder for Chrome Mox if you play that already.
Great idea! I've been unimpressed every time I've played LDV in other decks, so I was pretty sceptical, but it really helps here. Here's where I'm at:
4 Tendrils of Agony
4 Griselbrand
4 Show and Tell
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
3 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
I'm a little nervous about cutting Preordain since the hardest part is finding the pieces, but LDV helps. A friend and I were testing and we never had extra spells to pitch. 4 Flusterstorm is another thing that's good, but having a split with Duresses seemed bad.
This deck is as consistant and fast as ANT, but much less all-in. Reloads like nobody's business. It has 3 legitimate plans - S&T G-daddy, actually casting him, and an easy double tendrils kill.
nedleeds
05-30-2012, 11:56 AM
Seems like Flash would be really good in this deck.
Seems like Flash would be really good in this deck.
Flash is banned in Legacy. It sort of does this unfair thing by winning on Turn 0 or 1.
I second the Soul Spike suggestion (maybe I'm partial to broken decks from Classic) - it makes lethal Tendrils much easier to achieve.
pants
05-30-2012, 12:02 PM
I think you could probably run Hellcarver Demon as Griselbrand 5-8. It does basically the same thing.
nedleeds
05-30-2012, 12:08 PM
I think you could probably run Hellcarver Demon as Griselbrand 5-8. It does basically the same thing.
Yeah. Or you could even flip Griselbrand. Then you'd have 2 demons.
EDIT: welcome to the source "pants" you should use tags around hellcarver demon not everyone has bathed in the glory of his dark light
pants
05-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Yeah. Or you could even flip Griselbrand. Then you'd have 2 demons.
As long as we're on demons, maybe we could run Rakdos the Defiler.
nedleeds
05-30-2012, 12:21 PM
As long as we're on demons, maybe we could run Rakdos the Defiler.
Seems strong vs. Delver.dec. But not always. But sometimes. How about the sneak show match up where they may also have Griselbrand?
phazonmutant
05-30-2012, 12:33 PM
I second the Soul Spike suggestion (maybe I'm partial to broken decks from Classic) - it makes lethal Tendrils much easier to achieve.
I had an answer for why Soul Spike isn't good a couple of posts up, but I think I didn't actually hit on the most important reason why I don't think the deck wants it.
Soul Spike is good after you get Griselbrand in play. But that's the hard part! You need to find Griselbrand and either a S&T or a few rituals.
The second line of double tendrils'ing them isn't really helped either - that's an unrealistic number of cards to assemble: 2+ rituals, 2 tendrils, plus Soul Spike and two other black cards?
pants
05-30-2012, 12:37 PM
Seems strong vs. Delver.dec. But not always. But sometimes. How about the sneak show match up where they may also have Griselbrand?
We probably want Kuro, Pitlord. Pretty effectively deals with Griselbrand. Also, is a demon, so we wouldn't have to sacrifice it to the Rakdos we've already played. We should be pretty happy with this, I think we're going to win a lot of games at our local.
nedleeds
05-30-2012, 12:43 PM
We probably want Kuro, Pitlord. Pretty effectively deals with Griselbrand. Also, is a demon, so we wouldn't have to sacrifice it to the Rakdos we've already played. We should be pretty happy with this, I think we're going to win a lot of games at our local.
Respect.
alphastryk
05-30-2012, 12:49 PM
So, since assembling SnT and Griselbrand appears to be the problem, it might be worth trying other SnT targets or card draw engines. A quick search turned up Null Profusion and Though Reflection as possibilities (most likely bad). We could also try Slithermuse the way SI plays it?
phazonmutant
05-30-2012, 12:55 PM
The thought of Brainstorming with Thought Reflection in play makes me cream my pants. Definitely one in the board to test. Speaking of the board, a few Vendilion Cliques and some Snapcaster Mages could turn us into a combo-control deck if we play counterspells main. Durdle for 4-5 turns, then make a Griselbrand, ride it to victory.
Something else to consider, we can run 1 Tundra and 5ish chant effects + whatever other protection. Chant should be fairly reasonable to run with Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal.
alphastryk
05-30-2012, 12:58 PM
If we are white, could we play words of worship to replace draws with lifegain to draw more cards, or is that just terrible?
phazonmutant
05-30-2012, 01:00 PM
Holy crap that's a lot of card-draw potential! That's pretty exciting.
If we are white, could we play words of worship to replace draws with lifegain to draw more cards, or is that just terrible?
Add in Skirge Familiar and now you have a near infinite card drawing engine. Make sure you include an Eldrazi to recycle your graveyard.
nedleeds
05-30-2012, 03:03 PM
You think that's hot? Set up your library and Show and Tell this
Baneful Omen
plus I think the art fits in really well with the rest of the deck
phazonmutant
05-31-2012, 02:19 AM
Tournament report here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23910-1st-Place-with-Count-Chocula&p=646067#post646067
ThomasDowd
06-01-2012, 09:13 PM
how good has LDV been? would it be better as the other 3 preordain's? and just chain cantrips and go off turn 3-4ish w/ protection.
have you ever wanted one more piece of protection?
Michael Keller
06-01-2012, 09:35 PM
Rain of Filth?
phazonmutant
06-02-2012, 08:17 PM
Rain of Filth seems sweet. If we need more rituals, that looks pretty ideal as a 1-2 of.
how good has LDV been? would it be better as the other 3 preordain's? and just chain cantrips and go off turn 3-4ish w/ protection.
I've been pretty happy with 2. You're right that chaining cantrips is powerful, so I added back the second Preordain, but there's some diminishing returns. LDV is basically Vampiric Tutor for 2 mana, which is a great effect to have in the deck - when I tried it without the LDVs, it didn't quite feel consistent enough. It's also really sweet to have half the combo in hand and play land, chrome mox, ship, eot find the other half, kill you.
phazonmutant
06-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Played in a GPT for GP Atlanta yesterday, got 2nd. I was groggy and still hung over, so I played pretty poorly. It was a pretty small tournament, 14 players (5 rounds cut to top 4). The decklist I played was:
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Flusterstorm
1 Dispel
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Show and Tell
4 Tendrils of Agony
4 Force of Will
4 Griselbrand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
// sideboard
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Disfigure
1 Infest
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Swamp
The Dispel was there to try it out and because I couldn't find a third Flusterstorm. The sideboard was pretty last-minute "oh this looks sweet" (read: bad). Overall, I think I played terribly and definitely need to make some changes to the deck, but it's incredibly powerful and fun.
Round 1 - Junk Men
Game 1 - He played basic Forest and passed. I cast Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Show and Tell Griselbrand, draw 14, drain you for 18, draw 14, drain you for lots. Yeaaaaahh turn 1 kill!
sb: I took out the counterspells and added in the creature hate & bounce and Snapcasters. This was wrong. The counterspells are good against his hate and Snapcaster is just bad.
Game 2 - He makes a Dark Confidant while I'm setting up, I then cast Show and Tell, put in Griselbrand while he puts in Canonist. Huh. He StPs the Griselbrand, I decline to draw 7... Yeah. He gets Liliana, Teeg, Birds, and Sword of F&F in play while I'm rebuilding, and I miss a chance to bounce the SoFF with Liliana's +1 on the stack, then I Slaughter Pact the Teeg and don't pay for it.
Game 3 - I don't remember what specifically happened, but I know I misevaluated if I should be on the S&T or the hardcast plan (he put in a hatebear off S&T) and lost to a suited up Dark Confidant. Virtue's Ruin did work though. I was pretty mad at myself for punting and losing to what should be a good matchup.
0-1
Round 2 - T2 Mono-R
Honestly not much to say about this match. I made Griselbrand turn 2, he got tilted, then next game he got me down to 12 with Furnace Scamps (plural), I hardcast Griselbrand, and beat him down with it.
1-1
Round 3 - U/W Stoneblade
Apparently it was this guy's first time playing legacy (although he owned the deck he was playing). He had a strange build of stoneblade with tons of planeswalkers and was pretty unhappy to be playing me after getting crushed by alphastryk playing the same deck - something that was to become a theme.
Game 1 - He taps out to cast the SoFF that he Stoneforged up, and I Show and Tell turn 3 with protection and he has nothing.
Sb: I take out the Lotus Petals, a couple of rituals, and the LDVs for Vendilion, Snapcaster, Jace, a Disfigure and an extra land. For the record, Snapcaster and Jace did nothing.
Game 2 - My plan is to bide my time until I can go off with plenty of protection. I Snapcast ponder mainphase and he responds with a Jace. I draw Vendilion Clique and plan to endstep it and ambush Jace, but he mainphases his Clique. I Brainstorm to hide Griselbrand and Vendilion Clique and he takes something irrelevant after I punt by not Disfiguring before the trigger resolves. I kill the Clique and pass with the same plan as last turn. He mainphases another Clique, and takes Clique instead of Griselbrand. I hardcast Griselbrand with Flusterstorm backup a couple of turns later and he dies (after I imprint both Jaces on 2 Chrome Moxen heh).
2-1
Round 4 - Angry Dredge man
This guy was extremely angry that he was playing against the same deck after getting 0-2 crushed by alphastryk last round. Like. Very unpleasant to play against.
Game 1 - He mulligans twice, I keep with a Force of Will in hand. I force his turn 1 Faithless looting and he does nothing for a couple of turns. I LDV to set up to Show & Tell turn 3, draw 14, and brick on finding IMSs, shipping at 2 life. He finally finds action - casts LED, Breakthroughs for 1 and asks if it resolves. I quickly say yes and he points at his LED and says "trigger?" I'm like...wut that's not how cards work. So he dredges with Faithless looting a bit, Dread Returns up at Flamekin Zealot with 2 zombies and battles, saying "you're at 2 right?" I block and go to 3 life, and he conceedes.
Sb: I think I added an Infest and an Echoing Truth for Dispel and a Preordain.
Game 2 - He mulligans to 4 and does nothing, I play a land and Chrome Mox, LDV on his end step, find the Show and Tell, then Dark Rit into Show and Tell and kill him.
3-1
Round 4 - Affinity
Alphastryk played this guy last round and apparently punted away one game and lost another to not being able to find a fourth Griselbrand before the tournament. But he gave me the scouting report. My opponent was pretty cool and a reasonable player.
Game 1 - He had a fairly slow start, but was able to get me down to around 11 with a Vault Skirge, Signal Pest, and Etched Champion. I eventually find the cards to ritual out Griselbrand, but decline to draw 7 to play around him having a Galvanic Blast in hand. He battles with the Champ and passes, I battle in and draw 7, bricking on finding the kill but drawing a counterspell. He swings back for 5, leaving me at 4 and doesn't Blast (phew). I swing in and draw the kill.
Sb: Rebuild and Echoing Truth came in, Dispel and Flusterstorm came out (which in retrospect was loose because he boarded in REB). I knew he was boarding some 3spheres and Blood Moons from alphastryk.
Game 2 - I have a slow start, but he does too. I tried to cantrip into more cantrips or Griselbrand but whiff, leaving me S&T and some rituals in hand then play draw-go for a couple turns. He Cabal Therapies on turn 3 and sees the Rebuild I had drawn and kinda laughs. EOT I rebuild his 3 lands and entire board apart from a Disciple. I'm still whiffing on drawing Griselbrand though, so he has a few turns to put his board back together. I decline to Force Blood Moon, and good thing because I have to Force Ravager (pitching S&T) next turn. He tanks for a bit so I know he has the REB. Eventually I draw a Griselbrand and enough rituals to cast him, then kill him.
4-1 (3rd place in the swiss)
Semis - Stax
I'm playing against a friend who's been playing Stax forever and had just beat alphastryk to knock him out of contention for t4.
Game 1 - I have a quick Show and Tell for Griselbrand while he has Trinisphere in play, and he puts in Smokestack. Next turn he Armageddons and I can't do anything because I'm tapped out and I have to sac Griselbrand on upkeep. I scoop pretty soon after.
Sb: I take out Dispel, Flusterstorm, and shave some numbers to put in a Rebuild, Echoing Truth, and the Cliques. I know he's boarding in Humilities and Sphere of Resistance (hater!)
Game 2 - He casts Chalice for 0, I let it resolve, then he casts Chalice for 1, and I Force instantly. I'm able to Show and Tell in a couple turns while he has only the Chalice, but he slams down Humility! Empty-handed, I rip the Echoing Truth for turn, bounce Humility, and draw a bunch of counterspells and pass (forgetting to attack...). I counter it on the way down, battle with the big man next turn, and kill him.
Game 3 - He casts Sphere of Resistance turn 1, which I think I can play around, so I let it resolve. I'm stuck cantripping for 2 mana. I Force his 3sphere. He Armageddons away my 5 lands with a couple of rituals and a Tendrils in hand. I draw a few lands, but he gets Smokestack on 1. On my last turn before I'm locked out, I go down to 2 lands and have Petal, Dark Rit x2, Cabal Rit, Force, Ponder, and Tendrils in hand. I tank for an excessive amount of time, then grin. Excited, I ritual, ritual, ritual (6 mana). Lotus Petal, Chalice trigger on the stack, Force the Petal, and slam down Tendrils, super excited. He grins to and extends the hand and starts shuffling up. Then friends who were watching point out that I couldn't cast Tendrils - it costs 5! I had completely missed that. He took it well, though - props for being a good sport
Finals - Sneak and Show
I feel pretty outclassed this entire match. Game 1 I try to go for a Show and Tell with backup but he counters it and Sneak Attacks for the win next turn. I sideboard out Show and Tell because I think that I don't want to 2-1 myself (which is wrong, I have to try to be faster because he has more counterspells than I do). So I try to Vendilion Clique and he counters it. I Jace, he counters it. I contemplate hardcasting Griselbrand with no protection, but he has 4 cards in hand and has done nothing for a few turns - the only thing he could have in hand is counterspells. He Sneak Attacks the next turn and I lose - he shows me his hand of Force, Misdirection, blue card, and Wipe Away afterwards...yeah not winning that one.
Overall, I feel like the deck is powerful, but it needs some tweaking. I liked Force of Will, but I boarded out Flusterstorm and Dispel very often. They should probably be Spell Pierce to fight Stax and Sneak Attack. Jace and Snapcaster were awful - I thought I wanted to board into combo-control, but it's not actually that good - the kill isn't compact enough. Some thoughtseizes and more disruption would help the Show and Tell matchup a lot. I think the spot removal is better served as bounce spells, but I liked the sweepers. The Clique is very very good because they have to fight over it.
phazonmutant
06-05-2012, 10:58 AM
Jammed a bunch of games against Canadian Thresh last night. It feels like the matchup is at least even, and with some tweaking could be better.
I cut the fourth Tendrils for the third Preordain. It hurts consistency in going off, but just making a 7/7 lifelink is usually enough to beat them, so the key is to dig for protection, mana and pieces.
You need to basically sit tight and take damage until you can play around Spell Pierce + Force of Will, which isn't usually super hard as long as you keep a hand with velocity.
In the board, thinking of 4 Innocent Blood to slow them down. Given enough time, we have inevitability either through double Tendrils, hardcasting Griselbrand, or S&T.
They get to board in Pyroblast, which could lead us to shave S&T or LDV. Apart from that though, their board is pretty bad. If we see Sulfuric Vortex, we need to board in bounce, and it's another reason to shave S&T.
Worldslayer
06-07-2012, 01:06 PM
Has anyone tried shoehorning some Dream Halls into the list? It functions as a slightly more expensive and generally worse Show and Tell, but IS still a show and tell-esque enabler if you were in the market for more, while also functioning as a pseudoIMS as you can just draw 7-14, pitch rituals to rituals, minitendrils, etc without drawing so much as a single chrome mox. One of the problems Dream Halls usually runs into is the excess of cards that are terrible without it (conflux, progenitus, cruel ultimatum), but none of that is present here as all of your cards are castable and function without it. I wouldn't go all in on four, but 2 seems perfectly reasonable as a plan B or C.
phazonmutant
06-11-2012, 10:58 AM
Interesting suggestion! I tried out playing a couple and it didn't really fit with the deck. The hard part was usually finding a Griselbrand and then resolving a 3-mana spell. Just having another (5-mana) way to cheat him in wasn't really the battle I wanted to fight - I'd rather protect the S&T or ritual him out.
Burnt-toast
06-13-2012, 03:46 AM
This deck is very powerful, and has been a really consistent turn 3 win for me. I am however toying with the idea of trying Mox Diamond of a max 2 of for the extra piece of fuel when you draw 7-14 and need the card you would put under Chrome Mox.
P.S. sorry for no card links, I'm not sure how and this is my first post.
plimplam
06-13-2012, 07:34 PM
What about 2 misdirection MD? Maybe cutting 2 preordain
phazonmutant
06-17-2012, 08:11 PM
I got 2nd in a GPT on Saturday, narrowly missing the win. This time it was a 22-person tournament with a smattering of experienced and less experienced players. All the decks that I saw were fairly legit.
Alphastryk finally convinced me to try out the discard version and I feel like it's much better right now. I'm playing 5 Duress effects and 3 Dazes for protection, going off pretty consistantly turns 1-3. We don't often have extra cards in hand, especially blue cards, for the pitch counters, and it's much easier to have extra black mana when casting Show and Tell than it is to have extra blue.
My current list:
//Maindeck
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Cabal Ritual
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Daze
4 Show and Tell
3 Tendrils of Agony
4 Griselbrand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
// Sideboard
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Spell Pierce
3 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Rebuild
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Tendrils of Agony
The Snapcasters from the previous lists aren't really that good in general and are especially bad since we're not really trying to be the control post-board like I was in the counterspell build. Vendilion Clique still has a lot of utility against the slower control decks like Stoneblade and Miracles as well as the Sneak and Show decks. I wanted to try out Extirpates to help with the unfavorable Reanimator matchup and to complement discard against control decks (side in a couple to nug all of their counterspells). The Tendrils was for control decks to increase the chances of the difficult-to-fight double-tendrils.
I want to find room for a second sweeper, either Infest or Virtue's Ruin, against men. We probably don't need a full 4 Extirpate effects, and the fourth Tendrils might be overkill too.
I don't remember the details of the rounds very well, but I'll try to summarize how it went.
Round 1
I played against High Tide this round. Game 1 I turned 1 him and he conceeded when I S&T'd Griselbrand instead of revealing information. The second and third games I wasn't able to quickly find my combo but I Thoughtseized him some, so we both went draw-go and he found his action first.
0-1
Round 2
I played against a friend borrowing a Dredge deck. He led off on LED, pitch hand, loot, but bricked on his Imp dredge. I was setting up, looking for the Griselbrand, but he bricked on his next dredge as well and just packed it in. I boarded in the Pierces for the Dazes because we're racing and I'm trying to resolve a 3-mana sorcery and the Extirpates and Echoing Truth for the duress effects. I go off turn 1 and kill him after drawing 28 cards and 2 Tendrils.
1-1
Round 3
My opponent was a good player borrowing a UW Stoneblade deck. Game 1 I set up while he slammed a turn 2 Stoneforge Mystic. Next turn I Thoughtseize him and take a Vendilion Clique, leaving a bare Force of Will. EOT I Vault and Show and Tell into Griselbrand the next turn. I boarded in the Cliques, Tendrils, and some Pierces, taking out a Petal, a Vault, and the Dazes. He has an awkward keep on 6 and can't really gain any traction as I hit him with Duresses and Clique then Show and Tell unmolested.
2-1
Round 4
I had playtested with this guy a couple of weeks ago, so I know he was on aggro loam with no Chalices, which should be an insanely easy matchup, making my loss here all the more painful. I keep pretty loose hands both games and he's able to Duress a piece then drop Seismic Assault for the win. In both games I bricked on Brainstorm, so maybe I should be a little more careful to have some method of shuffling in hand.
2-2
Round 5
I'm again paired against Dredge. I'm on the play and set up for a turn 2 kill. He opens on PImp, on my turn I drop Griselbrand off S&T, which needless to say outclasses his Thug. He dies to Tendrils for 20. I board the same as the previous time against dredge. I mulligan to 6 and he does some stuff for a couple turns, conveniently not Therapying me. I go off before he can do anything relevant.
3-2
I make it into top 8 as 8th seed.
Quarters
I'm again playing against aggro loam guy. This time I'm resolved to make good keeps and good brainstorms. We play a good three games, but his 6ish discard effects + 3 REBs aren't enough to prevent me from assembling the combo. As will become important later, I clumsily knock the top card of my deck over when I'm drawing, getting a warning for Looking At Extra Cards. Literally a turn later, I accidentally look at 6 when resolving Lim-Dul's Vault (yeahhhh not sure how that works either), again getting a warning for LEC. I think it should have been a Game Rules Violation, but don't really argue at the time.
Semis
nedleeds was kind enough to scoop to me (apparently showing off his pimp BB power in vintage side events is better than playing in the GP). Thanks!
Finals
My opponent was on Maverick - should be fairly easy as long as I can assemble a quick Griselbrand. Game 1 I get him on turn 3 or so after he has a slow start with no acceleration. I know from scouting he's going to bring in 2 Canonists, 1 Linvala, and a couple of Enlightened Tutors. I board out a Cabal Ritual, a Show and Tell, and the Dazes for some bounce and Virtue's Ruin. He gets out a quick Canonist, but I'm able to play around it by Pondering on my 3rd turn and then LDV on his end step. I joke that I better not look at 6 cards again with the table/head judge sitting the match and then casually proceed to look at 6 cards. He says, "Seriously?" and all my friends watching the match have to walk away because they're trying to suppress laughter. So anyway, game loss. Especially awkward because I had the Chain to bounce the Canonist and the Rituals to cast Griselbrand next turn or the turn after. In the third game, I thoughtseize his Canonist then punt by Thoughtseizing a Teeg (who is completely irrelevant) instead of Swords. I'm struggling to find action and cast LDV, he is starting to assemble an army with Mom and Knight. After resolving LDV I realize that I can't just S&T Griselbrand because he has the swords and Karakas and I'm too low to make going off a guaranteed thing. I end up having to wait a couple of turns to Vendilion Clique and lose.
I feel like the list is strong, it has very explosive draws, and with the amount of low-level success I've had, I feel confident taking it to GP Atlanta. Hopefully I've learned from the experiences in this tournament.
I think the deck needs a second route to victory. The tournaments I played I did not win a single match when I did not have Griselbrand on the table (luckily those were very few until now). Double Tendrils without him is unrealistic against reasonable decks piloted by skilled players (and the deck I play is much more aggressive, without any reactive cards).
Right now people are not really prepared for us, but SneakShow hate hits us (Malfegor,O-Ring,...) as well as storm hate. In my meta discard + Extirpate/Surgical Extraction is a common sb-answer against combo, and that one is able obliterate this deck.
Thats why I'm thinking about Leyline of Sanctity and Massacre Wurm in the sideboard.
phazonmutant
06-18-2012, 04:42 PM
Massacre Wurm is a really good answer to men, that's true! Alphastryk had been playing one, but I forgot about it. I haven't run into many decks that will try to discard+extirpate in my area, but I can see that being a problem. I've killed people with double-tendrils a bunch of times, maybe once every second or third match - doesn't sound like a lot, but considering it's usually so easy to win by getting Griselbrand on the table, it's saying something. In the Finals match at the GPT I should have been on the plan of Tendrils'ing them because I knew he had StP and Karakas and I wasn't at a high enough life total to win through drawing off Griselbrand. It's hard to see those lines sometimes.
Could you post your list? I'm curious to see what you mean by "much more aggressive". When I've been playing the deck, the disruption helps you be faster so you're not throwing away your cards and tempo into counterspells.
Have people seriously brought in Malfegor against you? That seems pretty hateful. From what I've played against and what I've seen in the SCG opens, most of the hate is preventing your men from attacking or Karakas (i.e. Ensnaring Bridge, Peacekeeper, Blazing Archon). Not many decks play Humility, which is the only thing which really kolds Griselbrand. You should be able to draw 14 and win against a deck that'll be siding in Oblivion Ring and possible also against Gilded Drake. But you could also just go on the plan of casting Griselbrand.
Much more aggressive means less lands - actually 12 - but 4 Chrome Mox and only 4 disruption cards. Probably it's the lack of disruption that keeps me from killing by Tendrils only and my list is still too much in the flux to post it.
When I started to develop my deck I wanted to position it somewhere between SI and TES speedwise, playing green for Land Grant and Xanthid Swarm but dropped that idea because it wasn't consistent and resilent enough. Soon I ended up with lists close to yours, just with more emphasis on speed.
I didn't have to face Malfegor until now, but SneakShow is not played that often in my area. He was played in some SCG tournament by a burn player and was discussed in the SneakShow thread.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.