Texas Blues (UW Death & Taxes)

[klaus]

[U]Background:

About a year ago I sold 80% of my collection including most of my complete decks.

All I kept was my UW stuff (basically Landstill & StoneBlade). After several months of straight control I started to get the urge to shed more blood the old-school way. So recently I picked up 95% of the cards needed to build D&T. However, I didn't want to invest in a playset of Karakas - I thought I'd be able get away with replacing the Mangara tech with more aggro dudes. Needless to say, that budget pile performed poorly.

So I returned to toying around with different approaches to StoneBlade.dec while gradually increasing the creature amount of my prototypes. Last week I won a local Ghent trial with one of those UW homebrews.

A couple of hours ago, while pondering on ways to further improve the list, it struck me that it was actually a smooth blend between Stoneblade and D&T, featuring plenty of core cards from both worlds.

After a bit more tweaking, here's what I'm testing atm:

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
4 BS
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
[18]

4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Serra Avenger
2 Flickerwisp
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thalia ----------------------all non-creature spells are CMC1 and we can easily spend that extra mana while using Vial to pop out our guys. Wasteland, Daze and Pierce maximize the taxing effect.
[21]

4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath--------extra W fetchland for that singleton Plains
4 Tundra
1 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas -------------Clique & Thalia
4 Wasteland
[21] -------------------- 21 would be feasible, but I prefer being able to use my Wastelands more freely

Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce -----------------would love to include Force of Will in the MD/SB but the blue count is too low
3 Meddling Mage
3 Leonin Relic Warder
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Cards that would be okay MD material:
Spell Pierce, Spellstutter Sprite (+ Mutavault), Geist of the Saint Traft, Meddling Mage, Snapcaster Mage, some equipment.

PROS / CONS (StoneBlade comparison)

Better Combo MU (including Sneak & Show): twice as many clocks, just as much disruption. Also: Thalia & Meddling Mage from the board

Slightly better RUG MU: lower curve, less susceptible to Spell Pierce and Geese, Vial negates their FOWs and Dazes, plus MoR shines here.

Slightly worse swarm Aggro MU, due to lack of Terminus, BUT swarm Aggro is likely to recede due to that miraculous spell anyway.

Probably even Control MU: more threads, more vulnerable to Deed / Terminus. MD Thalia rocks in this MU, while Vial is sweet VS. counter magic.

Also, other than Stoneblade, Texas Blues is not as affected by the limitation of 50 minutes per round.


PROS / CONS (D&T comparison)

Better Combo MU: Clique, Daze, Pierce, Meddling Mage

Slightly worse swarm Aggro MU partly due to the lack of Grunt's MD ass.

Even to slightly worse RUG MU: less guys.

Slightly better or even Control MU: Pierce and Clique can handle their bombs about as good as Mangara + Karakas, but don't need a setup. It's also noteworthy that Clique can snatch away miracle spells with "miracle" on the stack.

--------------------------------------
Thanks for your feedback!

[Jabari]

There is a thread in the Established forum that already discusses this same style of deck. Might want to post your list there.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15562-Deck-UW-Tempo

[Qweerios]

Try Daze instead of Spell Pierce. It has much better synergy with T1 Vial/Mom and it is easier to cast through Thalia. Also, it doesn't force you to leave a mana open to counter something, which is kind of a big deal in a Vial aggro deck.

[klaus]

Try Daze instead of Spell Pierce. It has much better synergy with T1 Vial/Mom and it is easier to cast through Thalia. Also, it doesn't force you to leave a mana open to counter something, which is kind of a big deal in a Vial aggro deck.

I considered Daze before. Might give it another spin. Thanks!


There is a thread in the Established forum that already discusses this same style of deck. Might want to post your list there.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15562-Deck-UW-Tempo

I know that archetype and while I see clear similarities I also do see clear differences that warrant a separate thread.
Thanks for the heads-up though.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'm going to do the usual N&D thing and give you advice without trying your deck out at all, to fit in, but I have tried many versions of this archetype before so you should stop me if I'm wrong.

I think Spellstutters are too clunky in a deck like this, and basically in any deck that doesn't run bitterblossoms. I've tried to fit them in many places, UW tempo, Zur, tens of types of UW/b fish, and I'm always underwhelmed with a 1/1 that doesn't have a solid beating plan. Sure, you can equip something to it and make it actually do damage, but in general you'll have other creatures to do that with and would be better off using something that doesn't have as many weaknesses (its ability just isn't that great when they can bolt it in response and you actually need to get a horde of fairies, like the "merfolk effect," for it to pull its own weight). Mutavaults have never seemed worth running with them unless you go the bitterblossom route, in my experience.

For as awesome as the card can be and how many games it can shut out, I've lost more to it just being a clunky, underpowered beater that can only counter things that are behind the curve. Perhaps there is a better creature out there? Jotun Grunt is very good right now.

[klaus]

I'm going to do the usual N&D thing and give you advice without trying your deck out at all, to fit in, but I have tried many versions of this archetype before so you should stop me if I'm wrong.

I think Spellstutters are too clunky in a deck like this, and basically in any deck that doesn't run bitterblossoms. I've tried to fit them in many places, UW tempo, Zur, tens of types of UW/b fish, and I'm always underwhelmed with a 1/1 that doesn't have a solid beating plan. Sure, you can equip something to it and make it actually do damage, but in general you'll have other creatures to do that with and would be better off using something that doesn't have as many weaknesses (it's ability just isn't that great when they can bolt it in response and you actually need to get a horde of fairies, like the "merfolk effect," for it to pull its own weight). Mutavaults have never seemed worth running with them unless you go the bitterblossom route, in my experience.

For as awesome as the card can be and how many games it can shut out, I've lost more to it just being a clunky, underpowered beater that can only counter things that are behind the curve. Perhaps there is a better creature out there? Jotun Grunt is very good right now.

Phoenix.. you actually got me there! I really want Sprites to do more than they actually achieve.
I'd love to find a proper replacement, but still haven't come across a creature that's a better maindeckable combo hoser: Meddling Mage is too sideboardy, Revoker might be an option..
Grunts have been rather underwhelming in initial testing for some reason, but could find their way back in the MD if the meta shifts.
I'll think about it some more.
Thanks for the advice!

Edit:
On 2nd thought the replacement would have to be blue to support the SB FOWs.. though task..

Edit2:
I think I'll replace Sprites with some combination of Revokers, Grunts and Meddling Magi for the time being and see how it flows.

[I am the brainwasher]

There is a thread in the Established forum that already discusses this same style of deck. Might want to post your list there.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15562-Deck-UW-Tempo

+1
Why the heck should someone clog up the already out of hand N&D-Decks just because replacing Weathered Wayfarer and maybe FoW?
Gees

[klaus]

+1
Why the heck should someone clog up the already out of hand N&D-Decks just because replacing Weathered Wayfarer and maybe FoW?
Gees

I'd be hated out in no time, due to suggesting a creature base that is 50% different and a SB that's 90% different - simple as that.

[Oxmo39]

Looks really interesting to me.
I agree that sprite needed to be removed, but i don't really like the singletons you added (probably because you're still undecided about).

I think Snap doesn't fit the deck, just because of Thalia. And meddling mage seems more like a sb stuff...

Grunt and revokers are much more relevant.

Revokers could improve you MU against stoneblade, since SDT and Jace are really painfull and helps them to set their Teminus.
(I played D&T last week-end and have been wrecked against stoneblade because i didn't see any revokers...).
Revokers would also help in the show&tell MU.

Playing your own Jaces could also helps against control MU's (maybe in the side ?)

I'd also love to bring the jitte back in the main. Thalia handles it so perfectly :tongue:

From your list, i would do the following changes :
- 1 snap
- 1 meddling mage
- 1 grunt
+ 2 revokers
+ 1 jitte

Keep us posted with your further testings :wink:

[klaus]

.


Thanks for your feedback Oxmo!
Jitte already found its way back in the MD shortly before your post - so I kind of ninja'd you there :cool:
Grunt and Revoker got added as you suggested. I had the same feeling about Snapcaster and Meddling Mage.

I'll keep you updated about my testing learnings!

Edit:
Even though the blue count seems to be decreasing, I still think BS, Daze & Pierce justify the splash.

[xfxf]

What niche does this deck fill which Merfolks can't?

[Phoenix Ignition]

+1
Why the heck should someone clog up the already out of hand N&D-Decks just because replacing Weathered Wayfarer and maybe FoW?
Gees

Bahahahaha, because one more deck "clogs the forums" or something? This is not how technology works, and N&D isn't exactly a pristine place full of amazing decks, but thank you for making me run to get a towel to clean the coffee off of my keyboard!:laugh:

As for the most current iteration of the deck I'd first take out 1-2 lands, at this point you're not keeping mana up for counterspells/spellstutters and hitting 1 per turn with brainstorm and 19-20 lands would be just fine for a deck that runs vial and curves out at ~3. Adding a 4th Daze at this point is also worth it, as you still want some counterspells and it's just amazing backing up tempo decks. Having 4 basics could really hurt you (the 2 islands especially).

I also don't like Geist in decks that don't have great ways of protecting him/ getting him through bigger creatures. He's a blowout against removal decks, but any creature at all can trade with him if you don't have Mom (even a 4/4 holding a sword isn't that strong for him). He also has huge troubles with defending, obviously, which can be pretty bad in a deck full of 2/1 and 2/2s. Is Angel of Jubilation or possibly Restoration Angel too danger-of-cool-things? Jubilation shuts off Grisel, all phyrexian mana spells, and Natural Order, so has some use, and the buff can help your flock of small dudes. Maybe just more Flickerwisp? I too have had troubles finding good creatures in UW.

[Phoenix Ignition]

What niche does this deck fill which Merfolks can't?

The two decks are completely different, with much different strengths/weaknesses. Merfolk need to get a lot of creatures out and have terrible times attacking by themselves. They don't play equipment, and generally are more like a burn deck in terms of how they need to win (fast and before the opponent really gets going). This deck isn't blown out by losing 4/5ths of its creatures to burn, and equipment add sustainability throughout the game. It has a different method of shutting down opposing decks (mother of runes, phyrexian revoker, jotun grunt can all do a huge part in stopping them), and has better card advantage/selection routes.

How are they similar?

[klaus]

The two decks are completely different, with much different strengths/weaknesses. Merfolk need to get a lot of creatures out and have terrible times attacking by themselves. They don't play equipment, and generally are more like a burn deck in terms of how they need to win (fast and before the opponent really gets going). This deck isn't blown out by losing 4/5ths of its creatures to burn, and equipment add sustainability throughout the game. It has a different method of shutting down opposing decks (mother of runes, phyrexian revoker, jotun grunt can all do a huge part in stopping them), and has better card advantage/selection routes.
How are they similar?

Hah, thanks for the backup.

Your suggestions are much appreciated too! Going down to 21 land is absolutely feasible, but I'm scared of all the games that I start w/o Vial.
You might be right about Geist: in a way he feels like a dumb beater..
I'll have to do some testing now :smile:

[Esper3k]

I've loved the Aether Vial + Spellstutter Sprite + SFM decks ever since the days of Excalibur.

Question - without Mangara and a bunch of creatures that have enter the battlefield abilities, is Flickerwisp really needed?

[Phoenix Ignition]

I've loved the Aether Vial + Spellstutter Sprite + SFM decks ever since the days of Excalibur.

Question - without Mangara and a bunch of creatures that have enter the battlefield abilities, is Flickerwisp really needed?

Spellstutter worked better in that deck because it could run 4 mutavaults. It was able to get that manabase in because it didn't run 4x wasteland. I think Spellstutter could possibly work in here, but you would need to make that change (or else completely trash your manabase). The main reason I wouldn't do that is because the decks behave quite differently. This one has a bunch of small guys and wants to keep the opponent from getting bigger ones (interrupting their manabase is a great way to do it). Shutting them off from bigger threats, or at the very least, a large number of bigger threats does this very nicely. Excalibur didn't have that worry, and actually had strong aspects of lategame control. Jace, Goyf, and a larger selection of cantrips really helped it in that respect.

This deck is giving those up for a more hatebear strategy that wins by incremental advantages, similar to what UW tempo did, and I think that the result of this is that mutavault does less for it than wasteland.

Flickerwisp may not be the greatest card here, but he does stall combat and flashback stoneforges. Also a 3/1 flyer for 3 is pretty decent in the realms of white weenie.

[Esper3k]

Spellstutter worked better in that deck because it could run 4 mutavaults. It was able to get that manabase in because it didn't run 4x wasteland. I think Spellstutter could possibly work in here, but you would need to make that change (or else completely trash your manabase). The main reason I wouldn't do that is because the decks behave quite differently. This one has a bunch of small guys and wants to keep the opponent from getting bigger ones (interrupting their manabase is a great way to do it). Shutting them off from bigger threats, or at the very least, a large number of bigger threats does this very nicely. Excalibur didn't have that worry, and actually had strong aspects of lategame control. Jace, Goyf, and a larger selection of cantrips really helped it in that respect.

This deck is giving those up for a more hatebear strategy that wins by incremental advantages, similar to what UW tempo did, and I think that the result of this is that mutavault does less for it than wasteland.

Flickerwisp may not be the greatest card here, but he does stall combat and flashback stoneforges. Also a 3/1 flyer for 3 is pretty decent in the realms of white weenie.

Hah I missed that the list has been updated to cut Spellstutters.

Man, all those X/1 guys - it really feels like the deck might get blown out by a Forked Bolt though?

Surely, there's something better than Flickerwisp? Why not just play 2 more Serra Avengers?

2 Jittes main is probably correct as well, given how the deck looks like it folds to an opposing Jitte (you really want to win the Jitte war).

[Phoenix Ignition]

Hah I missed that the list has been updated to cut Spellstutters.

Man, all those X/1 guys - it really feels like the deck might get blown out by a Forked Bolt though?

Surely, there's something better than Flickerwisp? Why not just play 2 more Serra Avengers?

2 Jittes main is probably correct as well, given how the deck looks like it folds to an opposing Jitte (you really want to win the Jitte war).

This actually all sounds right. You can't really get around forked bolt well, but I wouldn't worry about that as much.

But as for Flickerwisp, it might not have a good place now that Spellstutter is gone (alternatively, you could try to focus a deck more on Spellstutter and use them, but you would need mutavaults). Jitte also is a complete blow out and isn't bad to have yourself.

[xfxf]

I read the deck as an Ux Fish deck. I just couldn't figure out how the deck hit the metagame in a unique way.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I read the deck as an Ux Fish deck. I just couldn't figure out how the deck hit the metagame in a unique way.

Can you stop spamming the thread? Seriously, do you think every deck in the N&D needs to be significantly different at "hitting the metagame"? That explains all of the crap "Mono B Discard" decks, I guess, but adds absolutely nothing. If you want an actually good deck that is completely different from things we've seen before then wait for WotC to print another stupidly good card, but in general the best deck you can create in the meantime is going to be based on another deck that has traditionally been strong (Ux fish decks in general) and change it up to adapt to the current metagame. Yes, this is a UW deck, and there have been UW decks before, but I fail to see how it's so similar to UW tempo. I sometimes wish pi4meterftw wasn't permabanned just so I could see his reaction to you thinking this is the same as UW tempo.

Flickerwisp, Vendilion Clique, Phyrexian Revoker, Thalia... not only are they completely different than the creatures played in something like UW tempo, they demand a drastically different playstyle to actually get them to work together. Try actually playing different variants of UW fish decks, maybe just UW tempo and then UW stoneblade and tell me how similar they are.

[menace13]

OMFG! No... A pi4meterftw mention! You Sir, win.

[Phoenix Ignition]

OMFG! No... A pi4meterftw mention! You Sir, win.

You understand, I miss having an archenemy. What was Sherlock without Moriarty?

[klaus]

But as for Flickerwisp, it might not have a good place now that Spellstutter is gone.
Sprites never profited from Flickerwisp. But every D&T player will confirm that Flickerwisp is an extremely powerful creature in the right shell. The obvious applications here would be: resetting Grunt, resetting Revoker, re-triggering Stoneforge Mystic or Clique, the obvious spot removal resucue via Vial, and of course there are plenty of potential tricks with targets among your opponents' permanents beyond that.

[FinnF]

I have been playing with a similar list. This is where I am at:

Main
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Plains
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Underground Sea
1 Misty Rainforest

3 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Serra Avenger
2 Flickerwisp
1 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Jotun Grunt
1 Phyrexian Revoker

4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
3 Daze
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


Sideboard
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Serenity
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Path to Exile
1 Perish
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

I am not playing any Mother of Runes. I always found it rather underwhelming in UW Tempo shells. Instead I went with Weathered Wayfarer. It has been okay so far, but not outstanding. On that note, I added a bit of a land-toolbox with it, but only lands that work without it as well. Horizon Canopy has been sweet so far. Moorland haunt is a bit of a test, could be pretty nice against red/black removal, and help against Pernicious Deed, even though it is far from a good answer here. The Underground Sea + Perish in the board is probably too greedy, but I need more testing to be sure of this.

Geist of Saint Traft has not been all too great so far. I might just go ahead and remove it for a Vendilion Clique or another Flickerwisp, which, as usual, has been insane...

[klaus]

I have been playing with a similar list.

Hi,
nice list. A change that I'd consider:
-4 Ponder
+1 Fetchland
+3 Thalia (for obvious reasons)

Gives you more juice and a better MU against some tier 1 decks.

[colo]

Eh? How you can turn down Mother of Runes in favor of Weathered Wayfarer, whilst your deck is not specifically built to abuse the living hell out of the latter, is completely beyond me, to be honest. Mom improves every creature-based/dependent deck it can reasonably be played in. Every single one.

Btw, I always thought Venser, Shaper Savant belonged in a UW D&T-esque deck. I'm not sure how to make it work, but a man can still dream, right?

[Star|Scream]

Eh? How you can turn down Mother of Runes in favor of Weathered Wayfarer, whilst your deck is not specifically built to abuse the living hell out of the latter, is completely beyond me, to be honest. Mom improves every creature-based/dependent deck it can reasonably be played in. Every single one.


Forked bolt, sulfur elemental, dread of night, Elesh norn. As long as people prepare for maverick, mom is not going to be as good as she was.

Also I don't like thalia maindeck because it forces us to leave too much mana open to pay for our blue instants.

[colo]

Forked bolt, sulfur elemental, dread of night, Elesh norn. As long as people prepare for maverick, mom is not going to be as good as she was.

I'm sure you notice all that kills Wayfarer, too :)

I don't think Thalia has a place in a list like this either. Since her release, I don't think there's much of a reason, power-level-wise, to be tinkering with UW Tempo-like lists, as straight up D&T has a much-improved storm matchup, Landstill isn't anywhere to be seen (yet?), and the deck handles many other things as good, if not better, than UW Tempo did during its heyday.

[Star|Scream]

I'm sure you notice all that kills Wayfarer, too :)

.

Of course, and Thalia as well. That's why I don't think a UW player should put all his eggs in one basket, so to speak. 4 creatures that die to forked bolt/sulfur elemental is better than 11 of them.


I'm thinking about a delver list with UW tempo, perhaps, but to resurrect the archetype we'd really need a good card advantage engine. Maybe standstill or ancestral visions or something like that? Visions would help flip delver. Otherwise why bother playing wayfarer when you could just play jace and/or entreat the angels

[klaus]

Also I don't like thalia maindeck because it forces us to leave too much mana open to pay for our blue instants.

If you look at the OP it only features 8 instants - 4 of which cost 0 or 1 with Thalia (Daze) and 4 which cost 1 or 2 with Thalia (BS).
Thalia's negative impact on this deck is nothing compared to the impact it has on most tier 1/2 decks outside of Maverick.
Thalia is a house, actually enhancing the Daze plan - backed up by Wasteland and Pierce out of the board. Plus Vial which will be online more often than not allows you to use your mana quite freely - bottom line being: I don't see any problems with Thalia - quite on the contrary - she's the real deal imo.

[FinnF]

Hi,
nice list. A change that I'd consider:
-4 Ponder
+1 Fetchland
+3 Thalia (for obvious reasons)

Gives you more juice and a better MU against some tier 1 decks.

Honestly, I think if you want to run Thalia in this deck, you should just go ahead and play D&T instead. I think it taxes our own deck too much here. Going from 0 mana cost on our countermagic to 1 is also a big deal. Ponder has been very good, too.



Eh? How you can turn down Mother of Runes in favor of Weathered Wayfarer, whilst your deck is not specifically built to abuse the living hell out of the latter, is completely beyond me, to be honest. Mom improves every creature-based/dependent deck it can reasonably be played in. Every single one.

Btw, I always thought Venser, Shaper Savant belonged in a UW D&T-esque deck. I'm not sure how to make it work, but a man can still dream, right?

The deck still abuses Weathered Wayfarer fairly well. Sure, I am not playing Fathom Seer, but except for that everything else is still there. However, as I mentioned in my previous post, it has not been overwhelmingly good, so I might end up cutting it at some point. On the other hand, while Mother of Runes is obviously a strong card, I do not think you should just automatically stuff it in any creature based deck without actually considering what it does for it. Have you tried playing UW Tempo without it? I am not saying it should definitely be excluded, but it is not an obvious inclusion either.
I would probably prefer a completely different 1 drop, though... Ideas?
Can we support Delver of Secrets with a few changes? Or would we need to completely rework the whole deck for that? Obviously delver is not going to be as good here as in some other archetypes, but that does not mean it cannot be good enough...

[klaus]

Honestly, I think if you want to run Thalia in this deck, you should just go ahead and play D&T instead. I think it taxes our own deck too much here.

Why? I've played both decks and have to say Texas Blues has better MUs VS. RUG AND S&T.

[FinnF]

Why? I've played both decks and have to say Texas Blues has better MUs VS. RUG AND S&T.

Well, Thalia is probably a good addition in these match ups, which is indeed very relevant. I believe both match ups are good without Thalia as well, though. What I meant was simply that I doubt she fits the deck overall, but I might be wrong of course. Has she proven herself to you in testing?

[klaus]

Well, Thalia is probably a good addition in these match ups, which is indeed very relevant. I believe both match ups are good without Thalia as well, though. What I meant was simply that I doubt she fits the deck overall, but I might be wrong of course. Has she proven herself to you in testing?

Yes.

[xifre]

I was all tinkering on building a deck like this one..

Just a quick question.. What's the least number of creatures to be played in a deck with a set of Aether Vial?

Thalia may fit into this deck as it's ability fits into the concept of D&T, and for this matter, Texas Blues..

I know it will also affect the costs of your counterspells but it will also affect theirs. At least you know that you have a taxing effect that you will know how to play around it.. I think it will be more stressful for them to add an additional 1 mana just to play their business spells.. just my 2 cents..

(this is the reason why i asked the first question re: the number of creatures..) thanks!