Æther Vial+Gaddock Teeg vs. Terminus

[KevinTrudeau]

You can Vial in Teeg in response to Terminus' Miracle trigger to prevent an opponent from being able to cast it for W right then and there, right?

[Esper3k]

You can Vial in Teeg in response to Terminus' Miracle trigger to prevent an opponent from being able to cast it for W right then and there, right?

As far as I know, yes.

[Koby]

You can Vial in Teeg in response to Terminus' Miracle trigger to prevent an opponent from being able to cast it for W right then and there, right?

Yes, the card is both revealed and triggers at the same time, and both occur before an opportunity to cast the spell occurs. You would be able to use any ability to effect casting before Miracle spells are played.

[TraxDaMax]

Is this only for the miracle cards or also possible before other noncreature 4+cc are trying to resolve?

[Koby]

Is this only for the miracle cards or also possible before other noncreature 4+cc are trying to resolve?

Non-miracle spells are on the stack already when you would have an opportunity to activate AEther Vial to put Teeg into play. At that point in time, Teeg won't restrict the spell from resolving.

Miracle is unique in that you see the card and its trigger before the spell is actually cast.

[cdr]

Madness is similar to Miracle in that it has a trigger that allows you to play the spell; there's not that may high-CMC madness spells, but you can stop them similarly with Teeg.

[TraxDaMax]

Ok thanks!


Madness is similar to Miracle in that it has a trigger that allows you to play the spell; there's not that may high-CMC madness spells, but you can stop them similarly with Teeg.

So, for instance "vialing in" Meddling Mage naming the madness card could also work?

[cdr]

Ok thanks!



So, for instance "vialing in" Meddling Mage naming the madness card could also work?

In response to the madness trigger, yes, same as a miracle trigger.

[Technics]

On a similar note. You can also Orim's Chant/Silence your opponent before he cast the miracle/madness card as well.

[Michael Keller]

In response to the madness trigger, yes, same as a miracle trigger.

So would it be correct in assuming that if playing a spell or ability that restricts a card with Madness happens at the time a card with Madness triggers, the card with the Madness mechanic would then be discarded instead of going back to said player's hand, correct?

It obviously only triggers when a card would be discarded from someone's hand, as it (the Madness ability) is static while it is in said player's hand (according to rule 702.33a). Just a random set of circumstances that is intriguing.

[cdr]

So would it be correct in assuming that if playing a spell or ability that restricts a card with Madness happens at the time a card with Madness triggers, the card with the Madness mechanic would then be discarded instead of going back to said player's hand, correct?

It obviously only triggers when a card is would be discarded from someone's hand, as it (the Madness ability) is static while it is in said player's hand (according to rule 702.33a). Just a random set of circumstances that is intriguing.

Yes - the trigger says it goes to the graveyard if you don't play it, and it doesn't matter if you didn't play it only because something prevented you from doing so. Also, you already discarded it - it's just a matter of where it goes after you discarded it.

You can counter the madness trigger though (Stifle) and end up with a permanently exiled card.

702.33a. Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with madness is in a player's hand. The second is a triggered ability that functions when the first ability is applied. "Madness [cost]" means "If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard" and "When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesn't, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard."

[Julian23]

Can you elaborate on the trick of playing a land inbetween discarding a Madness card and playing it? I remember Mike Flores mentioning it during PT Los Angeles 2005 and Billy Moreno actually discarding an Arrogant Worm and playing a land before paying its Madness cost. Is that still possible? If so, why?

[dunk]

I don't really know what the rules for Madness looked like in 2005, but no, you cannot. Unless you have some effect that grands your lands flash, of course...

[cdr]

Can you elaborate on the trick of playing a land inbetween discarding a Madness card and playing it? I remember Mike Flores mentioning it during PT Los Angeles 2005 and Billy Moreno actually discarding an Arrogant Worm and playing a land before paying its Madness cost. Is that still possible? If so, why?

That was under an older wording of madness - you used to be able to play a spell via madness until you passed priority, and you can play lands without passing priority. You can't do that anymore, madness is just a trigger now.