Custom Art Sleeves

[JDK]

Just found this kickstarter project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/divingdragongames/your-art-card-sleeves

I am not convinced by the border and edges, but it looks promising and would be the only opportunity I know of, to get custom art on sleeves for low quantities (usually they start in the thousands).

[DarkAkuma]

Seems pretty cool. Just $20 for only 60 sleeves is to much for me. 100 sleeves for $20 and I would be interested, or an even better price would be nice.

And honestly, the prototypes in the video aren't very inspiring. But here's hoping this does go somewhere. The idea is awesome. I'm not certain what pics I'd want on my sleeves if I got to choose, but being able to choose would be awesome.

[Koby]

I still have trouble with $9 for 100 sleeves that still split. I'm not going to risk more money on a product that isn't going to hold up for tournament play.

[sauce]

$5,943
pledged of $2,500 goal

^^

if these are as bad as SCG/CF sleeves then i would never pay $5 for them let alone $20.

[JDK]

Honestly, I don't mind spending that much money on sleeves with my own pictures, as long as the are decent and tournament legal.

[I am the brainwasher]

as long as the are decent and tournament legal.

That's the main concern I have. The quality must be very, very high (same looking pics, visibility and stuff) and then, if that's given, they have to endure a rather long time. Not that this is impossible, and I like that idea a lot, but satisfying customers on that level is definetly not the easiest task.

[CorpT]

One of my biggest concerns with sleeves is uniformity of cut. I want the exact same size sleeve every single time. I've bought packs of sleeves with two smaller packs in them and the two internal packs were different sizes. Yeah, I wasn't too happy to have 40 sleeves one length and 40 sleeves a different length.

[Geekery]

Hey guys!

I am actually the guy running the Kickstarter project for the card sleeves, and I thought I would answer a few of your questions.

First off I wanted to say that I have had a lot of success making all of the images identical (key to making them tournament legal), and I am also going to be adding a solid color border around each image (also key to making them tournament legal). I can achieve the identical images because I actually have some experience in the commercial printing industry, and I am a perfectionist when it comes to quality control.

Another concern people have is sleeve durability. Like I showed you in one of the videos on the Kickstarter page, I have developed a method to fuse all of the layers (clear front, printed section, laminate on the art) together into a solid piece. The result is a lip of solid plastic on the edges (the final product will be completely flat, so they will shuffle well) instead of just a minute weld on the sides. Also, the sleeves on the market tend to not weld at the top, leaving only the laminate's adhesive to hold it together. My method leaves a sleeve that you actually have to try to tear apart in order to make anything happen (see video).

When it comes to sizing, the sleeves will be die cut. I will also have a mechanical rig for the welding (custom built). This way I can make sure all of the sleeves are uniform.

As for the pricing, you need to keep in mind that these are made from scratch and in extremely small batches. The reason the other sleeves are so cheap is that they are made by the tens-hundreds of thousands per image. These are being made in tiny batches, and I am also striving to make a much more durable product. I actually polled a lot of people to figure out pricing, and to be honest the average price people said they were willing to pay was $25-30 (sometimes even $40) for a pack of 60 sleeves. These sleeves are extremely labor intensive to make as well.

I think that covers just about every question I have seen in this thread so far, but I am willing to answer any others you might have about the sleeves, or any of the other items that I am offering as stretch goals. :)

[JDK]

Thanks for the answers. As soon as I see a video with you shuffling a mtg deck with custom sleeves, I am most likely to be convinced. :D

I don't care about the life counter and token stuff (sorry), but I am curious about the playmats. Looking forward to your next video. ;)

[Geekery]

To each their own on the accessories. :)

The play mats will be made from the same materials as the commercially available ones. They will be 14x24 inches and will be made from neoprene with a fabric top.

Once I cross the $6500 mark I will have enough for the printer I will need to buy to make the mats. The best part is that I can use the same printer to make t-shirts. :D

Once I get the money from the project I will make my machinery and commission the cutting dies. I will be posting updates like a mad man every step of the way. You will see some shuffling vids then. I will be launching a website to take future orders, so if I convince you then you can order. ;)

[EvilNerdINC]

I really like seeing more individuals trying to take on personal projects like this. I would love to give some of your sleeves durability tests and see how they work out. And congrats on your kickstarter project thus far! I hope that it continues to go amazing, players are always looking for a new amazing product and I am looking forward to seeing how yours lands in the field.

On s side note if you are looking for artists to make custom designs for inventory let me know =). I am guessing not everybody is going to want to upload custom art for the sleeves, although this is the big selling point, some people will just want cool images to choose from.

[DarkAkuma]

I was kinda figuring the money needed was to increase production efficiency, like making the sleeves more automated to help ensure production speed, cut quality, etc.

I too couldn't care less about the tokens, life counters and such.

Now if there was any sort of guarantee that the sleeves are very durable and cut well, something which you can only claim, and only time and other people can confirm, then $20 for 60 sleeves would be close to fine. But even then, no. I need 75 sleeves for my deck. I can get away with 60, but having to re-sleeve when side boarding is very annoying and eliminates the ability to just shuffle in your entire sideboard then pull out 15 cards. With other sleeves I would just consider buying extra packs of sleeves to help ensure I have 75 sleeves for several decks, but that would get quite expensive with these.

Heck, even with just 60, I don't care how durable a sleeve is. Sometimes they just get damaged. Maybe even lost. Something happens to just one of these, and damn, now the other 59 are completely worthless.

And people are idiots, and exaggerate a lot when something like this is still just and idea, and throw around overly large numbers on what they claim they would pay. Some may very well be willing to pay that after thinking things through, but for mtg players its an expensive hobby, and price for anything for that hobby often has a very small window in which it's interest level is make or break.

I completely understand these sleeves being more expensive then I'm used to. Honestly, I'm used to paying far less for my sleeves in packs of 50-100, and would often refuse to buy some if they were just slightly higher then what I'm used to. But for custom sleeves I can completely understand paying more for. Just the price vs quantity for these seems at the least just slightly off like I've mentioned.

Bare minimum adjustment to the price setup that I see is needed is 75 for $20, of which durability is of a high level. Bare minimum. =/

[Geekery]

I can make these in batches as small or as large as needed. I mainly offer them in batches of 60-80 since those are the most requested amounts. I do have 80 for $25 listed in the pledge amounts on Kickstarter, and that does include the shipping costs.

There may be price adjustments in the future based on just how labor intensive these things will be. The down side to offering the sleeves in such small batches is that there is a limitation to how much I could automate.

As for your idea EvilNerdINC, I do plan on having sleeves that use a set image. Since I can run those in larger batches I can sell them at a lower cost.

[DarkAkuma]

I'll be honest. I didn't look at any of the pledge amounts other then the first. I do now see that the price per sleeve does scale better the more you pledge. As evidence of my implied claim about 60 being to few for a lot of card players, the 80 sleeve pledge is the most popular.

But I will still stand by that the cost is to much. I hope in the future you can get those costs down to a more attractive level somehow. For now I'll stick with simple mono color sleeves for a fraction of the price.

[csy]

will the dimensions/quality allow them to sustain a card with a perfect fit sleeve on it?

[Geekery]

They should.

[CookedChestnuts]

Honestly, I would take a photo of myself with two thumbs up, and huge grin on my face. If I could get 100 for that price, I totally would. Sleeves with yourself on them would be hilarious.

[I am the brainwasher]

Maybe MTGO could adapt these also. I mean till they ban it, because they would be abused chat-roulette like XD.

Just kiddin. Hope you get to the point where you are so successful that you might get the chance to expand over to the european market, so it is affordable to players here.

[Geekery]

Hello again everyone!

Sorry it has taken me so long to get to a point where I can post an update. It turns out that the actual materials needed to make the card sleeves behave very differently from the materials I made my proof of concept prototypes out of (the plastic manufacturers forgot to mention some very important info, even after I told them what I was using it for). The good news is that I have solved all of those issues, and I am actually getting ready to start production.

Here is my latest video update showing off the final quality:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WT8wo0gi80