RWB Confused Goblin Chant deck

[ahg113]

Heya,

So this started years ago as a casual Goblin Trenches Isochron Scepter Orim's Chant deck (when Mirrodin came out it was legal in Type 1.x for a minute I think, prolly not.)

Fast forward, and I caught the bug to play magic again, and since Type 2 is for hosers (as I relearned), pimped out my old deck with Plateus for Type 1.5. Some new toys, mainly old ones, and I had a junky RW Trenches, Scepter, Chant, Humility deck.
I continued to invest in this pile with Wasteland and Scrubland and added black, dropping Scepter, to include Lingering Souls Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress.

Now, goldfishing this by myself the manabase is horrible and I have no idea what it's trying to do.

Please help! I really really want to keep Goblin Trenches and Humility. That is the purpose of the deck, as unoptimal as it may be. It would be an epic fail to lose the ability to troll with MD Humility, and I have the sweet player reward tokens for Goblin Trenches. And I hate blue. I know blue makes everything better, but please refrain from adding the devil's color to this deck.

Here is the 1st RW deck I made, and to follow, the current iteration. Side board hasn't changed.

3 Isochron Scepter
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Humility
2 Goblin Trenches
1 Goblin Bombardment
2 Seal of Fire
1 Aura of Silence
3 Slagstorm
4 Orim's Chant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Lightning Helix
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Mana Tithe
2 Abeyance
4 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Plains
2 Mountain

Side-Board
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Genju of the Spires
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Runed Halo

has changed into...

2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Humility
2 Goblin Trenches
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Aura of Silence
3 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
4 Orim's Chant
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Lightning Helix
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Abeyance
4 Plateau
4 Scrubland
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wasteland
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
2 Mountain

Side-Board
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Genju of the Spires
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Runed Halo

Thanks for reading, hope it wasn't tldr.

Cheers,
can it be saved?

[jrw1985]

Have you heard that Land Tax is off the banned list in 5 days? Land Tax + Goblin Trenches seems like a natural combo. Tax grabs you lands to feed to Trenches, and Trenches lets you sac enough lands to reactivate Tax. And it's easier to curve into and harder to hate out than Crucible.

[ScatmanX]

Have you heard that Land Tax is off the banned list in 5 days? Land Tax + Goblin Trenches seems like a natural combo. Tax grabs you lands to feed to Trenches, and Trenches lets you sac enough lands to reactivate Tax. And it's easier to curve into and harder to hate out than Crucible.
This would be sweet.
You can also try to make a little combo, with cards that bring your lands back into play.
The only one I can think wight now is Second Sunrise, but that only work once you achive a lot of mana...

[ahg113]

While I know a lot of folks are excited about Land Tax coming back, I'm trying to keep the lands light and have more room for spells, which means utilizing duals and dying to Price of Progress. The heavy inclusion of many basics means the business spells will either be much fewer, or much harder to cast.

I've made some changes, mainly the addition of another set of duals (because money obviously grows on trees.) Also some major changes to the sideboard.

This won't out slow play a control deck, so with the sideboard I got to thinking it should change plans and attempt to become more aggro. I added Demigod of Revenge which I'm happy with. I thought about adding Bloodghast, but have no idea if that's a worthwhile add. I enjoy the recursion ability, but is it enough? Is there another creature that would be worthwhile, maybe Figure of Destiny (but that seems slow too...)

Thoughts appreciated.

Current list-
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Humility
2 Goblin Trenches
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Aura of Silence
3 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
4 Orim's Chant
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Lightning Helix
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Abeyance
4 Plateau
4 Scrubland
4 Badlands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wasteland
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Plains
1 Mountain

Side-Board
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Demigod of Revenge
1 Runed Halo
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Open/aggro spots

Cheers,
Al

[evanmartyr]

Is Goblin Trenches just a preferred win con for you? It seems a bit slow and resource intensive when compared to the others available to a deck like this like Entreat the Angels, which can just win out of nowhere.

Lingering Souls is neat but Timely Reinforcements seems categorically better in the Legacy Environment. Souls will end up being a Time Walk sometimes, but Reinforcements tends to be always a Time Walk, and is easily taken out for something relevant in matchups where both would be mediocre.

With no Isochron Scepter in your list I would get rid of the Chants/Abeyances. They're not terrifically wonderful without the possibility of a soft lock, and the slots could be more disruption, tax pieces, or win conditions.

Mox Diamond might not be terrible if you choose to shift towards a more Land Tax sort of build. You can still run tons of non-basics, just shave off a few so you can reliably Tax for 2-3 lands 2-3 times. If you do this, maybe ditch Lightning Helix or Lightning Bolt for Path to Exile?

@Scatmanx: I think Planar Birth is what you're looking for.

EDIT: Actually, if you switch to a Tax build and shift your removal into White from Red then you can run a heavily basic mana base, since the only things you'll need red mana for are Goblin Trenches and maybe Bombardment.

[ahg113]

@ evanmartyr
Yup, Goblin Trenches is a pet card, as is Humility. It's not optimal, but I'm not trying to make the deck Tier, just not a horrible pile of crap. I liked your suggestion of Timely Reinforcements. I went with Lingering Souls because that's the rage, and while playing a Belcher deck against Blue, Lingering Souls did a lot of work against me (because counterspells are the devil), I figured they could be to my benefit too.

I agree with the Isochron Scepter lacking from the deck, I've been mulling putting a copy in for a miser's reason.

As far as card selection goes, I'm trying to get a playset of Thoughtseize, then just put in the two Inquisition of Kozilek. With prices super inflated for Land Tax, I missed the boat. Plus, I went out and got the dual lands, I concede that I lose to Price of Progress, and I'm ok with that. For the chant effects, it's a poor stall tactic, but it's about the only way I can fight against Show and Tell or combo if well timed.

I have thought about dropping red though, the bolt and helix aren't doing as much work as the other spells.

Thanks for your input.

[evanmartyr]

Problem with relying on Chant effects to stall Show and Tell is that you really bank on drawing Duress effects in that very small window; if you'd had a Duress effect before you may have been able to shut them off, and with Thoughtseize (which I agree is drastically better than Duress) you'd be even better off. I'd say bust out the Scepters man. They're good with nearly everything you've got, with the exception of being pretty awful vs. Maverick without a Humility down.

And I'd look into building up into a Land Tax version since you can speed up the deck (with Mox Diamond), make it more consistent, and give it a late-game engine to abuse.

(lolwut @ Land Tax prices, btw. That shit's dumb)

I wasn't criticizing your choice of win condition at all, I remember loving the shit out of Vindicates and Gerard's Verdicts and Goblin Trenches and all manner of janky shit back during Invasion block. Just that if you do fit in a Tax engine then there's a ton of incentive to streamline and go red mostly for the Trenches, maybe the bombardment, and leave the removal and early-game stuff to white and black (to control creatures and the opponent's gameplan, respectively) and just abuse the fact that red gives you access to a win condition with insane synergy with Tax.

[ahg113]

Like an addict, I went ahead and got 4 Thoughtseize to replace the Duress and one Inquisition. Also added a miser's Isochron Scepter, which I've enjoyed (except when folks Stifle it...) Actually thinking about adding a second Scepter and going down to one Crucible.

With the Scepter, the red spells get a lot more mileage. Also thinking about the SB, and wondering if having a SB that ports into a Team Italia SFM - equipment might be good. SFM and Humility don't go well together, but they're at opposite ends of strategy.

I like the deck, it's fun to play, mostly reactive, some proactive. It's fun to MD humility now a days, against everything except Man-Lands.

Cheers,
all of the durdle is belonging to me

[evanmartyr]

I would imagine that a SFM, Jitte, Batterskull package in the sideboard would be fairly good, since there aren't many decks that would keep spot removal around seeing Goblin Bombardment and Trenches.

I'm not sure I would bother with Serra's Sanctum, especially with only one Crucible.

[ahg113]

After several rounds on cockatrice, I'm thinking Silence is a much better card than Abeyance. Reasons for this thought include the mana requirements being less, and shutting down the casting of all spells.

Abeyance works best as a dissuasion to cast counters on my turn, which increases* my casting cost by 2. Silence works better during their upkeep (through Abeyance, creatures, artifacts, enchantments, planeswalkers are still castable.)

Also, I've yet to live the dream of Abeyance on the stick, to draw a card for 2 mana.

Very happy with the deck, it's a decent fair deck, with potential to grow.

For the SB, there's 7 spots that can be replaced easily- the Lava Runners, and the Leylines. Only used the Leylines in one live game (vs. Mono-B), never on cockatrice. The Lava Runners are obviously sub-par. With those 7 spots open, I think the Stoneforge Mystic, Equipment package could go in. Thinkin Jitte, Batterskull, and Sunforger (not sure if any of the Sword of &'s really make a difference in my deck, and am playing a bunch of red/white instants.)

Or, just two equipment and another silver bullet enchantment Wheel of Sun and Moon...??? (Runed Halo has been good, pro Jace's stupid fate seal or ultimate, zombie tokens, bloodghast, Goyf, whateve's I don't feel like paying attention to.)

Cheers,
survey says?

[Kich867]

Perhaps this was mentioned but, given a Goblin Trenches deck, I'm surprised to not see: Land Tax and Mox Diamond. I suppose this may be in the budget section but still, those two cards would be rather insane for the deck.

You could be dropping turn 2 trenches or turn 3 humilities which is pretty nice, on top of having a seriously stable mana base. Unfortunately this may require running a lot more lands and I don't know if you have the space for it.

[ahg113]

Perhaps this was mentioned but, given a Goblin Trenches deck, I'm surprised to not see: Land Tax and Mox Diamond. I suppose this may be in the budget section but still, those two cards would be rather insane for the deck.

You could be dropping turn 2 trenches or turn 3 humilities which is pretty nice, on top of having a seriously stable mana base. Unfortunately this may require running a lot more lands and I don't know if you have the space for it.

While I know a lot of folks are excited about Land Tax coming back, I'm trying to keep the lands light and have more room for spells, which means utilizing duals and dying to Price of Progress. The heavy inclusion of many basics means the business spells will either be much fewer, or much harder to cast.


Not really trying to go down the Land Tax / Mox Diamond route, as has been suggested previously.

In essence, it's more grind than combo. I'm looking to disrupt their hand, disrupt their mana base, control creatures with removal, and either to protect my spells landing, or stall the game, use chant effects.

The deck has moved from a 2 color deck to 3 color, and the hand disruption has been very important, as extra R/W spells wouldn't replicate the effect. Also, the third color has allowed me to utilize Lingering Souls, which can either be aggro or durdle.

Testing on cockatrice has proven the deck can perform very well, but with no library manipulation (save two E. Tutors and four fetches), it's very draw dependent. I've blown out Maverick by playing a better Wasteland game than them, killing their mom's and heirarchs with bolts, StP for knights. And I've grinded blue with Demigod out the SB, haste Jace, eat it.

Cheers,
If only Sylvan Library was R/W/orB

[ahg113]

The biggest adjustments were to the sb, and there is an updated MD too. I've enjoyed playing with this deck, feels like a different type of tool box deck with elements of Deadguy Ale, Maverick... disruption, grind, slow beats. My two pet cards and the reason for the deck are Goblin Trenches and Humility. They've been wonderful to play. Happy with a 61 deck, as pending on the moment, either 1 Plains or CoW are the 61st card. (Had a single Vault of the Archangel, but it seldom carried it's own weight and the colorless mana was a pain.)

Aside from Dragon Stompy being a harder match-up than expected (8 Bloodmoon effects...) the deck plays fairly well. With a now tight SB list, I feel comfortable playing against any archetype.

Current list-
2 Isochron Scepter
1 Crucible of Worlds

3 Humility
2 Goblin Trenches
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Aura of Silence

4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls

4 Orim's Chant
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Lightning Helix
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Silence

4 Plateau
4 Scrubland
4 Badlands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wasteland
2 Plains
1 Mountain

Side-Board
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Gaurdian of Thraben
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Umezawa's Jitte

And yes, it does feel funny to sometimes have a better deck in my sb than in the MD. I feel as though creatures in some form are the main threat in legacy right now, so Humility trumps a lot of decks. Surgicals almost always come in, the biggest swaps are enchantments and Volcanic Eruption + Silence for creatures, as needed.

Haven't tried Timely Reinforcements in lieu of Lingering Souls yet, but maybe soon for the heck of it.

Thanks

[Burnt-toast]

I would like to see elspeth, knight-errant in the MD somewhere, possibly another in the SB. She works great with humility as her pump ability gets around humity's ability, and she can continue to pump out tokens when you need them.

I've gotten pretty fond of sorin, lord of innistradas another token generator and immediate pumper. I can't remember if his emblem gets past humity or not though.

[ahg113]

Sorin's emblem does get around Humility.

What cards would you take out to put in an Elspeth or two? Also, there's more variation by having a planeswalker, enlightened tutor can't go find that one in a pinch. But the thought has crossed my mind. Even adding Ajani Vengeant, but that was I believe correctly passed over.

What sort of planeswalker control deck could the colors RWB make?

Liliana of the Veil
Ajani Vengeant
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Elspeth, Knight-Errant

About the deck as it is currently constructed. I think I would name it "King Durdle" It's definitely a late-game grind out type construction. The tricky plays are not over extending into any of the token wreckers such as Echoing Truth, Terminus, or Engineered Explosives.

Cheers,
swording your own Bob is frown town...

[thefringthing]

Please help! I really really want to keep Goblin Trenches and Humility.I got you covered, bro.

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Humility
2 Goblin Trenches
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Aura of Silence
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Force of Will
3 Lingering Souls
3 Stifle
1 Terminus
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Brainstorm
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island

[ahg113]

Is this trolling? In the same paragraph you quoted, there was a clear, "No blue," objective set. Anyhow, thanks for the reply.

[ahg113]

With Rest In Peace spoiled, I very much want to add in the combo package of RIP and Helm of Obedience.

My thought process is to take out Aura of Silence from the MD and a Silence. That's putting in either one each or two Helms. Aura of Silence isn't pulling it's weight, and I've gotten comfortable with 61 cards, so instead of cutting it, I figured to replace it.

My biggest sticking point is that RIP has non-bo action with Crucible of Worlds, Lingering Souls and Grim Lavamancer. I'm not as concerned with the Lavamancer, as I could probably find a replacement, somewhere... somehow. But I've come to need the Lingering souls, and become very comfortable with CoW. CoW is probably a livable loss, but can there be harmony between RIP and LS?

Happy with the deck, never sit down to a game thinking I'm just gonna lose. Would like to add the combo to have a surprise win in some games.

Suggestions appreciated. Trying to keep creatures out of the MD, and realize RIP may be a sb card that would mean siding out CoW, changing the sb selection of Lavamancer to - ?

Cheers