BW Planeswalker Control

[jayman1515]

I've been working on a BW planeswalker list but need input on what else could optimize this list.
Spells
2x ensnaring bridge
3x sensei's divining top
2x humility
3x diabolic edict
4x swords to plowshares
3x elspeth, knight-errant
4x liliana of the veil
3x sorin, lord of innistrad
4x hymn to tourach
4x inquisition of kozilek
4x vindicate
Lands
3x arid mesa
4x marsh flats
3x verdant catacombs
4x scrubland
4x isolated chapel
3x swamp
3x plains


Any comments will be helpful.

I would like to build the deck to beat rug delver and sideboard into good matchups versus Sneak and Show and reanimator.

[berksowl]

I'm curious to see how it performs. A Pernicious Deed or Engineered Explosives would wipe away 100% of your win conditions. Seems like diversifying in that sense would be good.

What about a Mishra's Factory or four?

With Elspeth, maybe add Moat?

Also, I'd consider Chrome Mox plus maybe 2 x Contamination.

I like this idea a lot. Black and white together have more than just tempo to offer. If you're thinking of black/white control, I'd suggest thoroughly reading (if you haven't already) the Pox deack threads, as well as the Armageddon Stax and Dutch Stax threads. These are the most notable mono black and white control decks, respectively, and there's got to be a lot to learn from them.

[baghdadbob]

I'm curious to see how it performs. A Pernicious Deed or Engineered Explosives would wipe away 100% of your win conditions. Seems like diversifying in that sense would be good.

What about a Mishra's Factory or four?

With Elspeth, maybe add Moat?

Also, I'd consider Chrome Mox plus maybe 2 x Contamination.

I like this idea a lot. Black and white together have more than just tempo to offer. If you're thinking of black/white control, I'd suggest thoroughly reading (if you haven't already) the Pox deack threads, as well as the Armageddon Stax and Dutch Stax threads. These are the most notable mono black and white control decks, respectively, and there's got to be a lot to learn from them.

Deeds doesn't kill plainswalkers. Also no one plays explosives for 4.

[Valtrix]

One complaint I have is that I don't feel like is a strategy that fits well in a control shell like this. Sure, it can be useful early, but you're not going to seal the game very quickly, and that discard is pretty atrocious after a bunch of turns.

Also, you should probably be running at least 2 Eternal dragons. The synergy with top and usefulness as a late game win condition is just too good.

Additionally, I think that black adds very little to a control deck like this that white just can't do on its own. The only thing I truly like from black is Liliana. She is a powerful source of control/card advantage. Otherwise, everything seems not that impressive.


As I said, I don't believe discard and (dedicated control) like this play well together. I'd rather have redundancy in answers most of the time.
Sorin is okay, but doesn't do much that Elspeth isn't already doing. I'd honestly rather run Batterskull before Sorin, because despite the mana it still impacts the game more and is an alternate approach to win the game with.
White has almost exclusively better answers than black. See, diabolic edict compared to Runed Halo or Path to Exile or even Porphyry nodes.
Similarly, [cards]Oblivion ring[cards] can basically function for a vindicate. You rarely need to hit lands, and ORing actually helps the Show and Tell matchup.


In mono-white you can even run the snow engine! And yes, I must apologize for I am a bit biased, but I have been working on a dedicated control mono-white deck for a few weeks recently. I originally considered splashes, with black being one of them, but these are the conclusions I came to. I really don't think that black has a ton to offer a dedicated control deck like this, unfortunately.

[jayman1515]

If a B/W control deck seems weak would it be smarter to move towards a junk version which then can include pernicious deed, maelstrom pulse, any garruk or other green cards of use(especially sideboard)? Maybe add wasteland and life from the loam.

[alphastryk]

Lingering Souls seems like it would buy you a lot of time...

[f|i[p]]

I have always tried to build a bw control package, but it always fell short on muscle...

Im not sure youd like 4 lilianas in there... there is almost no ways of using her +1 ability, and I have been stuck with liliana a lot of times while not being able to use the +1 ability...

I think previous suggestions of lingering souls and batterskulls are good suggestions to consider...Batterskulls will hasten win condistions as well...

you can also consider phyrexian arena for added draw and card advantage..

[jayman1515]

Took some suggestions and added them in. The new list looks like the following:

Spells
2x ensnaring bridge
3x sensei's divining top
2x humility
2x diabolic edict
4x swords to plowshares
3x elspeth, knight-errant
4x liliana of the veil
2x batterskull
4x hymn to tourach
4x inquisition of kozilek
3x vindicate
3x lingering souls
Lands
3x arid mesa
4x marsh flats
3x verdant catacombs
4x scrubland
4x isolated chapel
3x swamp
3x plains


I'm still testing the addition of Mishra's factory/factories, eternal dragon, and phyrexian arena.

As for Path to exile, that will be coming out of the board with a possible split with innocent blood.

Any more ideas for B/W? I was thinking of testing a pair of Tombstalkers in the deck.

I can add Red to the deck, though I'm not sure what good alternatives that offers. Maybe ajani vengeant, lightning helix, and other but not completely sure if going red is worth the testing. I would love to add blue but those are the only duals I do not have access to:frown:

[klaus]

I've tinkered with a similar approach a while ago. First off, your curve is way too high.
Like "The rent is too damn high".
8 planeswalkers is the perfect number imo. My favorite setup was 4 Lilly 3 Sorin 1 Elspeth (having access to double white can be a pain in the butt against RUG and friends).
Lingering Souls proved itself as a smooth addition - you can actually pitch it to Lilly frequently.

1-2 Plains should really suffice / 3 is too much with 8 BB spells.

My suggestion:
9 fetches
4 Scrubland
2 Isolated Chapel
5 Swamps
1 Plains
2 Mishra's Factory

8 PWs
4 Hymn
4 Inquisition
4 Lingering Souls
4 STP
1 Smother
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Sensei's Top
2 Vindicate
3 SFM
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte

SB:
2 Damnation
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Disenchant
4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Grafdiggers Cage


Is an okay starting point imo.

[Barook]

@Klaus: What about Bitterblossom?