targeting technecalities

[xieyun006]

My first question concerns cloudshift.
My opponent casts lightning bolt targeting a creature I control can i cast cloudshift to exile then return it right away making the lightning bolt fizzle due to lack of target since the creature is now a different creature than when the opponent targeted it with lightning bolt?

Second question concerns geth's verdict and vapor snag.
If my opponent casts vapor snag targeting my carrion feeder, and i sac carrion feeder to himself will i still lose the life? i'm under the impression that the snag will no longer have a target and will just fizzle thus preventing me from life loss since it never resolved. just wanted to make sure of this.
second scenario i have a carrion feeder in play my opponent targets me with a geth's verdict, in response i sacrifice carrion feeder to himself do i still lose life? what i think is that i can still be forced to sacrafice 0 creatures full filling the first portion of the spell and thus be forced to lose the life as well. any verification on these two scenarios would be appreciated.

and finally i have a ravenous rats and carrion feeder in play my opponent casts pyrokinesis dealing two damage to each creature, can i sac the rats to the feeder to prevent pyrokinesis from resolving and saving my feeder?

any thoughts are appreciated thankyou

[Koby]

My first question concerns cloudshift.
My opponent casts lightning bolt targeting a creature I control can i cast cloudshift to exile then return it right away making the lightning bolt fizzle due to lack of target since the creature is now a different creature than when the opponent targeted it with lightning bolt?

Your thoughts are correct here. Once the object leaves a zone, it's considered a new object and targeting will fizzle on that object.


Second question concerns geth's verdict and vapor snag.
If my opponent casts vapor snag targeting my carrion feeder, and i sac carrion feeder to himself will i still lose the life? i'm under the impression that the snag will no longer have a target and will just fizzle thus preventing me from life loss since it never resolved. just wanted to make sure of this.
This is also correct. All the targets must be present at the time of resolution for the spell or ability to have any effect.


second scenario i have a carrion feeder in play my opponent targets me with a geth's verdict, in response i sacrifice carrion feeder to himself do i still lose life? what i think is that i can still be forced to sacrafice 0 creatures full filling the first portion of the spell and thus be forced to lose the life as well. any verification on these two scenarios would be appreciated.

The difference here is that you, as the player, are the target. The spell will force you to sacrifice (zero) creatures and complete the rest of spell (lose 1 life).


and finally i have a ravenous rats and carrion feeder in play my opponent casts pyrokinesis dealing two damage to each creature, can i sac the rats to the feeder to prevent pyrokinesis from resolving and saving my feeder?

any thoughts are appreciated thankyou

This type of spell selects more than one target. Spells will attempt to complete as much as possible provided at least one target is present (for spells that target). In this case, the player must choose the amount of damage each target will receive. If in the meantime targets disappear (via Cloudshift or sacrifice for example), the spell will still attempt to do as much as possible. In this case, Pyrokinesis will deal 2 damage to Carrion Feeder as the last remaining target.

[cdr]

400.7. (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R4007) An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. ...

608.2b. (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R6082) ... The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word "target," are now illegal. ...

[xieyun006]

so for a spell such as arc trail, if my opponent were to cast arc trail targeting me for two and a creature i control for one, if i some how get rid of the creature target i still end up taking the two damage? i'm pretty sure i understand the answers given i'm just verifying a specific situation that took place today, and thank you very much for the prompt response.

[cdr]

so for a spell such as arc trail, if my opponent were to cast arc trail targeting me for two and a creature i control for one, if i some how get rid of the creature target i still end up taking the two damage? i'm pretty sure i understand the answers given i'm just verifying a specific situation that took place today, and thank you very much for the prompt response.

Yes; as long as there is at least one valid target remaining, a spell will skip the illegal targets and do as much as possible to the legal targets.

[aljiichiban]

400.7. (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R4007) An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. ...

608.2b. (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R6082) ... The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word "target," are now illegal. ...

Does this mean that you cannot sac ghost quarter targeting itself and get a new basic land in play?

[Koby]

Does this mean that you cannot sac ghost quarter targeting itself and get a new basic land in play?

Correct.

[cdr]

More completely, you can sacrifice it targeting itself but the ability will be countered on resolution for lack of a legal target.

[xieyun006]

ok this brings up yet another question, i thought that you cannot knowingly select an illegal target. in the case of ghost quarters: inorder to activate the ability and choose a target, the activation cost of tapping and sacing itself must have already been paid, would you still be able to target it since it is now in the graveyard and not in play? i understand the ability will fizzle i'm just trying to make sure if it could even get that far. it may seem as though i'm sharp shooting your answer cdr, i'm not, i'm genuinely curious.

[Esper3k]

ok this brings up yet another question, i thought that you cannot knowingly select an illegal target. in the case of ghost quarters: inorder to activate the ability and choose a target, the activation cost of tapping and sacing itself must have already been paid, would you still be able to target it since it is now in the graveyard and not in play? i understand the ability will fizzle i'm just trying to make sure if it could even get that far. it may seem as though i'm sharp shooting your answer cdr, i'm not, i'm genuinely curious.

When you cast a spell or activate an ability, the first things you do are:

1) Announce that you're casting a spell / activating an ability
2) Choose target(s)
3) Pay costs

So in the case of Ghost Quarter (and for Legacy, Wasteland), you announce that you're using the Ghost Quarter ability, then choose your target (Ghost Quarter), then pay the cost of the spell / ability, which in this case is to tap, then sacrifice the Ghost Quarter.

The ability then goes on the stack, but "fizzles", ie is countered upon resolution due to having an invalid target at the time of resolution.

[xieyun006]

ahhhhhhhh, soo many technecalities, i got the order a little backwards, thank you!