(Fake) beta lotus on e-bay

[Vicar in a tutu]

Saw this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Lotus-Beta-P9-mtg-/271018722931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f19f98673) on e-bay. That Lotus looks really fake, and the sad thing is that there already is a bid of 670$. What do you guys think? Fake or not?

How much of the Power on e-bay is fake? I'm kinda considering getting some (poor man's white-bordered) Power and that listing really spooked me. (Though I suspect fake Beta and Alpha is far more prevalent than fake Unlimited.)

[Shion]

It looks like a really bad fake to me. The color looks off, and the white triangles are on the wrong end of the card. The printing also looks fuzzy.

[OurSerratedDust]

Link?

[Vicar in a tutu]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Lotus-Beta-P9-mtg-/271018722931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f19f98673

[OurSerratedDust]

Damn, looks pretty fake to me.

[wortwelt]

The back looks off center, but the front doesn't. That's odd.
The black border should also be not as uniform as it looks on the picture. Alpha and Beta cards tend to have two visibly discernible black borders. The border I can make out is definitely too thin compared to the outer border.
The gloss looks also off, but the picture is way too blurry to actually judge the card.
The seller does not offer high-res scans or a return policy and has only 8 references.
Very fishy!

I would never buy Power off eBay these days.

If you really want to buy power, go to an established dealer or look at the card in person, preferably with a common from Alpha/Beta. There are no "killer deals" on Power pieces.

[jamesh]

I would never buy Power off eBay these days.


QFT - so much fake power on ebay these days and often impossible to tell until it is in your hands
this however is very obviously a fake
but buying this type of card off someone with feedback of 8 is moronic

[Solaran_X]

QFT - so much fake power on ebay these days and often impossible to tell until it is in your hands
this however is very obviously a fake
but buying this type of card off someone with feedback of 8 is moronic
The only way to get guaranteed legit Power off of eBay is to pay through the nose to well known dealers like Dan Bock and ABU. Honestly...I'd rather just travel to the nearest GP and look through the hundreds of pieces of any given Power that are likely to be there by the stack of top loaders.

[Petal Collector]

Anybody report the listing yet? It definitely looks fake.

[5doorfury]

I will gladly offer up that I recently picked up a Pearl from DanBock on ebay for a good price.

I never expected a steal of a price on a P9 card, but getting a nice condition, real card, is worth every penny.

[cdr]

Even Dan Bock has sold (good) fake power on eBay. I just wouldn't, not ever. Buy it from a known professional dealer in person, someone with enough expertise to know fakes. Prices are even getting to the point where I'd be leery of duals on eBay.

[nodahero]

How do you know Bock's power was fake?

[Julian23]

Is Dan Bock the guy that drives a Black Lotus?

[wortwelt]

There are some incredibly well made fake power cards out there. I bought an Ancestral like 8 years ago, and the seller genuinely wasn't aware. I even had high-res scans and couldn't see it. (And NO, I didn't get the money back. Live and learn.)

The thing that separates good fakes from bad fakes is the actual printing process. Magic Cards are printed using a carved printing plate. This is quite elaborate and costly. If you have one of the better fakes made by using this technique, proving it's a fake is way harder.

Wizards has a small guide to spot obvious fakes: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/209

In the guide, they say that real MtG cards have a blue layer in between the two paper layers. If you have a good magnyfying glass, you can make out the thin blue line if you look straight at the card edge. No need to tear a Lotus apart.

Don't use the bend test. Especially on old cards, the test may have been executed a few times before, and naturally, creases will appear. I own a Beta Time Walk I'm almost 100% sure is real, but it shows creases from Bend tests.

The following link is a really good guide to determining if a card is fake. The section on how actual Magic card printing looks up close is really good. http://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/page321.php

The most dangerous thing are not the sellers actively and knowingly selling fake cards - it's the sellers who can't determine if the card in question is fake. Who am I to blame such a poor guy if I tell him the card is fake?

[klaus]

Fake card is fake.

[door]

The back looks off center, but the front doesn't. That's odd.
The black border should also be not as uniform as it looks on the picture. Alpha and Beta cards tend to have two visibly discernible black borders. The border I can make out is definitely too thin compared to the outer border.
The gloss looks also off, but the picture is way too blurry to actually judge the card.
The seller does not offer high-res scans or a return policy and has only 8 references.
Very fishy!

I would never buy Power off eBay these days.

If you really want to buy power, go to an established dealer or look at the card in person, preferably with a common from Alpha/Beta. There are no "killer deals" on Power pieces.

How can one be sure that it is not I kind of misprint? I mean, before you can make the blue layer analysis. The old cards often exhibit pale colors and off-centering.

I'm wondering if there were any situations ever when a player got game loss for having a fake card he was not aware of?

[klaus]

How can one be sure that it is not I kind of misprint? I mean, before you can make the blue layer analysis. The old cards often exhibit pale colors and off-centering.
I'm wondering if there were any situations ever when a player got game loss for having a fake card he was not aware of?

Back in the day I used to scan-->print cards to test with nicer looking proxies. And let me tell you: those things looked exACTly like that fake Lotus fake.

[wortwelt]

I can't remember seeing a card that has an off center front but centered back.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I can't remember seeing a card that has an off center front but centered back.

I have piles of them.

[TheElvishPiper]

The Lotus is obviously fake, but my question is there anything we can do to warn those bidding or get the listing removed? I feel bad for the sucker who buys that.

Regarding buying power on eBay; I bought 7 pieces of Unlimited power on ebay, and didn't have any problems. Although I would have love to acquire Beta/Alpha power, I was spooked by the amount of fakes in circulation so I just went with Unlimited (Assuming that there are far less unlimited fakes out there).

[Shion]

It's still up huh... I reported it before I even posted on this thread, and I'd recommend anyone that hasn't already do the same. eBay generally doesn't act unless they get multiple reports.