BW Stax

[berksowl]

http://marcmyers.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008dca1f0883401538ec5c121970b-800wi

On July 1st of this year, someone named Christopher Yip played a BW Stax deck to 29th place at the SCG Open in Seattle. I've never met this person. It wasn't a tournament-winning deck, or even a Top 8 deck. But it placed better than about 85% of those in the field, and the deck itself is awesome -- absolutely worth exploring.

Introduction
His deck was a Stoneblade Stax build, meant to control the early game through Ancient Tomb + Chalice of the Void for 1. Then it can all but lock out the opponent's strategy with cards like Trinisphere, Liliana of the Veil, Smallpox, Hymn to Tourach, Smokestack, and Wasteland. Crucible of Worlds takes advantage of this board state, and can bring back Wastelands for further devastation. Lingering Souls can block, or it can provide fuel to sac to the Smokestack. And finally, Damnation can sweep the board when needed.

This leads to resolving a Stoneforge Mystic, and winning with Batterskull of Umezawa's Jitte.

This a Stax control deck that hopes to stay alive long enough to stabilize. But if it manages to stabilize, it is most probably going to be in the driver's seat and in a dominant board position, with a virtual lock on the game. The key is to play defense, stay alive, deplete the opponent's permanents and then gain life and get the win with a Jitte or Batterskull-equipped creature.

The list...

4 Stoneforge Mystic

2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Smokestack
2 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Damnation
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lingering Souls
4 Smallpox
1 Vindicate

3 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bg
1 Buried Ruin
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Scrubland
4 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacomb
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Cursed Totem
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Zuran Orb
1 Circle of Protection: Red
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Damnation
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas

Here's Christopher's decklist from the SCG list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47521

Some brief background on Stax decks as a whole...
This is a unique build of a classic deck. Mono-white Stax decks have traditionally employed either a land-focused permanent destruction strategy (Armageddon Stax (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6044-Deck-Armageddon-Stax)) or a strategy focused most on general permanent destruction with an emphasis on creature hate or creature shrinkage (Dutch Stax (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12515-Deck-Dutch-Stax)). In fact, an Armageddon Stax deck by Zack Strait (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=949356) placed high at last year's SCG Open in St. Louis.

There's also been some successful colorless Stax builds, like a deck by Carson Long (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=988542) that reached the semi-finals of last year's SCG Open in Dallas.

On these forums, aside from the two mono-white threads (which are still very active), there have been some mono-black Stax threads, and at least one Stoneforge Stax thread. Here's an incomplete survey of those threads:

Stone Stax (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21370-Stone-Stax&highlight=stax)
White Aggro (Creature) Stax
(http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?18483-Deck-White-Aggro-Stax&highlight=stax)
Mono-black Stax (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15666-Mono-Black-Stax-First-Draft&highlight=stax)
Bitterblossom Stax (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?14603-Bitterblossom-Stax&highlight=stax)
Braids Stax (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5535-Deck-Braids-Stax...-Yes-it-s-back...&highlight=stax)

There's also been some Tezzeret Stax decks, and these are very good decks. http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/16498_Unlocking_Legacy_Seeking_Stax.html explains some of that synergy.

Details on this deck in particular...
This BW Stax deck is different in a number of ways. It's a two-color deck. It's just black and white and it relies on the time-shifted black Wrath of God, Damnation. It also is unique in that is utilizes a full play-set of Smallpox. At the same time, it leans on the Stax staples:

Smokestack, the deck's namesake
Chalice of the Void
Crucible of Worlds
Trinisphere

And it plays 4x Lingering Souls, which is a primary way it can stay ahead in the permanent race, or a way for it to chump block while it stabilizes.

So I think this deck is enough of a new idea to deserve its own thread, and it demands some closer examination.

For one thing, this deck plays what is arguably the best white threat in Legacy at the moment: Stoneforge Mystic. It packs Batterskull and Umezawa's Jitte, and it can win simply by resolving SFM and one or the other of those equipments. So adding that to a control package is a good basis for the deck.

It also uses a defensive card that's quickly become a Legacy staple: Lingering Souls.

Together, SFM and Lingering Souls makes this Stax build a deck with a lot of potential.

It goes without saying that a new deck, or a new variation of an old archetype, can be improved through tweaking, and trial and error. While I'm in no way the most qualified person to take up the cause of tweaking this deck to perfection, I've been playtesting the following build:


4 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Liliana of the Veil

1 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worls
2 Smokestack
2 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Damnation
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Lingering Souls
4 Smallpox
2 Vindicate

3 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mishra's Factory
2 Plains
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Aura of Silence
2 Damnation
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Humility
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Relic of Proenitus
1 Warmth
1 Zuran Orb

I've opted to include Elspeth as a win-con, and I've included a singleton Mishra's Factory and a Horizon Canopy. This Factory is maybe not the best choice. But the Horizon Canopy seems good, and can be a nice draw engine with the Crucible.

Based on Mr. Yip's build, and based on the version I've been testing, there are some cards that seem worth consideration in this BW Stax deck:

Hero of Bladehold: Seems like the deck has lots of control, but may need another threat.
Exalted Angel: See above. But maybe too slow.
Windborn Muse: An additional threat with a built-in Ghostly Prison.
Tangle Wire: Basically a Smokestack alternative. And while I'd hate for it to prevent me from casting a Chalice on 1, or one of my threats, I think it could buy time while I draw into a Smallpox or the board sweeper, Damnation.
Mox Diamond: Seems like a no-brainer. Other than Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors, perhaps the best way to set up a turn 1 Chalice on 1.
Moat: Worth consideration as a hard-lock in combination with Humility, and with Elspeth. But I can't afford Moat, and while this deck is more like Dutch Stax than the Armageddon version, it isn't exactly looking to lockout creatures so aggressively as a Moat/Humility combo.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale: Ditto, can't afford it. But I can't think of a great reason not to include it.
The Abyss: Not as versatile as Smokestack, and not as fast as Wrath of God/Damnation.

Lastly, I'd love to add some match-up analysis. I hope to provide some analysis shortly.

Most of all, I'd love to get some input or, better yet, get some people who like what they see from this deck to sleeve it up and then give some reports from the field.

Thanks for reading.

[no_nickname]

Hi there -

Long-time lurker, first-time. I'm just curious to see if you have in-depth playing history of any of the other prevalent Stax builds. How do matches shape up compared to matches you've played using other versions of Stax?

I'm just breaking into Legacy and have been gradually acquiring the core of a Stax deck. If given the opportunity, I may proxy this up and, if so, I'll let you know if I have any useful feedback.

Thanks for starting the thread. I'll definitely be looking forward to match-up analyses.

Chris

[Greenpoe]

-1 Elspeth
-2 Smokestack
+3 Sorin, Lord of Innistad
Sorin is easier to cast than Elspeth. He also goes great with Lingering Souls.

[berksowl]

Thanks for posting, and thanks for your interst no_nickname and Greenpoe.


I'm just curious to see if you have in-depth playing history of any of the other prevalent Stax builds. How do matches shape up compared to matches you've played using other versions of Stax?

I'm a pretty new Legacy player, and so I hope to be more of a facilitator of the conversation in this thread than one giving the expert input here, at least until I have more experience playing this deck. I'm hoping to hear from some experienced Stax players -- I know they're out there.


-1 Elspeth
-2 Smokestack
+3 Sorin, Lord of Innistad
Sorin is easier to cast than Elspeth. He also goes great with Lingering Souls.

Good idea. I like Sorin too, and it's worth trying especially for Sorin's ultimate.

But I like Elspeth a lot too. She's perhaps a better fit in this deck for her second +1 ability (the +3 with flying), given that this deck will often have only one creature in play. It may often be an equipped germ, so having +3 on a lifelink creature is good.

Smokestack itself is a card that can be boarded out. Against Goblins, for instance, where most decks will find they're losing the permanent race, it's not such a good card. One would much rather have Humility in play. But against RUG Delver, Smokestack seems like a good card to have out, with at least one counter on it.

Speaking of Humility, Elspeth goes will with it. And while Humility is only a sideboard card in my BW Stax build, I'm tempted to include it in the main.

One more thing: Since this deck packs a lot of creature hate in the main, other than 4x Chalice it might struggle to deal with some combo decks, like Storm or Belcher decks in particular. Other than Mindbreak Trap, can anyone suggest some good sideboard options for dealing with these combo decks?

[feline]

I actually played against this specific decklist, against this specific deck, against this specific player, at this specific, noted event (Seattle SCG open series)

It was during round 2 and somehow out of 187 people, I got paired up after a game loss (Yay round 1 game loss, gotta love that with 7 more rounds incoming) In either case, I had realized where I was sitting numerically, and I went "omg, I might have actually gotten paired up, I'll ask my opponent when they come around" though I wasn't expecting to get that lucky, I actually did get paired up, I don't mind anything that can potentially increase my tiebreakers.

----------
(From my tournament report)

Game 1 they do marsh flats & get a scrubland so I'm thinking "ok it's probably deadguyale - b/w stoneblade right?" even after they chalice of the void for 1, I still thought it was B/W aggro possibly just "making a metagame choice of maindeck chalice" Luckily for me, I had a force of will for the chalice so I could still use my brainstorms/ponders/preordains & start setting myself up, eventually I combo out to a win before they lock me out.

Game 2, I pull off another win, but this time it's because of rebuild, you don't have to worry about countering chalice of the void for 1 or 2, or trinisphere if you can just at end of turn rebuild them and then go off next turn, which was my aim here. I did get to the point of force of will'ing a smokestack however, that or armageddon was a priority to be countered.
----------

Now, playing stax (I have a prison stax deck myself) the thing about going against high tide is that even after you get out a bunch of stuff, they can just at end of turn do the "cunning wish for a rebuild" and then at the end of a next turn "cast rebuild" then go nuts next turn, However, that is from the White/Artifact Stax perspective...

...This deck also uses black, which mean's access to discard, B/W stax has a better setup against combo type decks that can actually combo consistently against them (Though it is to note, most combo deck's aren't high tide, they are ANT/TES/Sneak & Show/Combo Elves/Dredge, etc...) In either case, it is just the option to have one more tool as far as that goes, though most stax decks, especially trini-stax ones using chalice of the voids, can have good game against most combo decks already.

The other thing to note would be Stoneforge Mystic, that card gets you what you need, especially against aggro decks that can get you down fast before you lock them out of the game, when you're playing against aggro or burn or w/e else and you get low, it's really nice to get a Jitte or a Batterskull into play and start gaining life, removing -1/-1 counters to kill creatures, have a blocker at all, etc etc etc, the options give you just that, options, whatever you need at the time of casting >^,^<

The biggest positive I'd say, Stoneforge mystic, the biggest problem when I play my version of stax, is against aggro decks that just "get there" before I can "get there" with my battleplan.

The discard can rip their hand's apart as well, and then what they do play you can, for the most part, answer, with stoneforge mystic, or damnation, wasteland, liliana of the veil, batterskull for life gain. Another thing I could note is the setup is similar to liliana pox in some regard, again, it's mainly the discard options that most stax deck's do not have access too.

It's just one of the different variants of playing Stax, whether it's MUD stax, Prison Stax, Dutch stax (You should see the price of dutch stax decks if you haven't) or just mono white stax, or in this case, B/W stax.

[berksowl]

Thanks feline. Good to hear a firsthand account of this deck from SCG Seattle.

I've played a lot of discard-heavy decks in the past, like with 6 discard spells minimum. So 4x Hymn seems pretty light in the discard department. But then mixing in Liliana and discard, this seems like only a half-stax list with just 2x Trinisphere and Smokestack, and only sideboard Ghostly Prisons. So that's the trade-off I guess for mixing in black spells.

I've played around with Armageddon Stax. By Prison Stax I take it you mean Dutch Stax (Humility/Moat/Tabernalce), which I haven't really checked out, aside from just reading decklists. But compared to 'Geddon Stax, this BW Stax deck seems more likely to steal a win even before it gets all its control pieces into play. Or if it needs more time to find a win-con, it can get a soft lock too. It seems like a good balance, though with certain cards not really central to the gameplan but rather more reactionary (like Vindicate), it seems like there's potentially more dead draws, or more cards that won't be directly setting up a win or a lock.

So I'd say the deck sacrifices some of the control of the mono-white builds for more responsiveness.

[berksowl]

A two-part post...

Part 1

A new sort of development for BW Stax-style prison decks yesterday as control-type deck builder Ali Aintrazi finished mid-pack at SCG Washington DC with a "BW Prison" list:

BW Prison by Ali Aintrazi
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

2 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Trinisphere
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Humility
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Armageddon
3 Duress
3 Lingering Souls
3 Bitterblossom

1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Cabal Pit
1 City of Traitors
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
1 Darkblast
2 Disenchant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Lingering Souls
2 Perish
2 Thoughtseize
2 Wrath of God

....So this is a Stax deck with no Smokestack.

It takes a land destruction turn (with Armageddon) instead of the creature destruction strategy of Christopher Yip (who played Damnation).

It keeps creature strategies in check with Humility and Ghostly Prison, and then packs a full complement of black and white token generators: Elspeth, Sorin, Bitterblossom, and Lingering Souls.

A pretty interesting deck.

Part 2

I've also been developing my own ideas around BW Stax. I read this article (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/multiplayer/9455_Humiliating_Isn8217t_It.html) recently and together with some of the black splash ideas in the Mono-White Dutch Stax thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12515-Deck-Dutch-Stax) on these forums, I've put together this list to test out:

BW Control
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Liliana of the Veil

3 Armageddon
2 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ghostly Prison
3 Humility
2 Mox Diamond
3 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Smallpox
4 Trinisphere
2 Vindicate

3 Ancient Tomb
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Plains
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
4 Defense Grid
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Leyline of the Void
4 Rule of Law

So it's another Smokestack-less Stax build, counting heavily on resolving a Humility or a Night of Souls' Betrayal, or preferably both. But with a full set of Chalices and Trinispheres, the Ghostly Prison/Armageddon package, and 2 Smallpox and 2 Vindicate, I think it gives itself some time to get there. Or at least it gives itself a plan for dealing with aggression without a resolved Humility or NoSB.

Win cons are Batterskull, Elspeth, and Mishra's Factory. But note that Elspeth's soldier tokens will die as soon as the Humility+NoSB lock is in place. So at that point Elspeth is used simply to pump up a Germ or an Assembly Worker.

From the Dutch Stax thread some good ideas for inclusion is this deck are"

Idyllic Tutor
Liliana Vess
Replenish
Cranial Extraction
Nether Void
Engineered Explosives

Especially the tutor effects (the first two) seem good in a deck that's aiming for a hard lock (Humility+Night of Souls' Betrayal) the way Dutch Stax is aiming for a hard lock (Humility + Moat). Both decks need a bit of a boost to find their enchantment answers before its too late.

Maybe I should view this deck (my version, certainly not those of Ali or Chris) as a BW version of Dutch Stax, nothing more, with Night of Souls' Betrayal a cheaper substitute for Moat. The price of Moat is a factor. But I also think the inclusion of Smallpox, Vindicate and Liliana of the Veil may warrant leaving out Smokestack and Oblivion Ring. Otherwise, it's Dutch Stax with something else in place of Moat.

And lastly, a note about that something else. Night of Souls' Betrayal is no slouch. It's arguably better as a stand alone card than is Moat in this meta. A Delver survives and gets to attack once its flipped with a Moat in play, for instance. And as a combo with Humility, all unequipped creatures die with NoSB in play. With Humility+Moat, they're locked down, but if your opponent draws a Disenchant, the creatures will be ready to attack again. So while I don't assume this deck is a better deck than Mono-White Dutch Stax (or even the black splash version), I think it has a chance, and is worth testing.

Lingering questions I have are these:
Do I have enough win-cons?
Does it need Smokestack?
Is Hymn to Tourach better than Smallpox in the maindeck?
If I add 2 x Idyllic Tutor, what do I remove? Smallpox?

I'll post results here. After a couple days, I'm thinking more about those tutor effects.