[Free Article] Tricky Legacy Interactions - Part 2

[Ziveeman]

Link: Judge! - More Tricky Legacy Interactions (http://www.azmagicplayers.com/articles/judge-more-tricky-legacy-interactions/)

We received amazing feedback with part one, so here's part 2. As with the one before, feel free to mention any odd/quirky interactions in Legacy and we'll try to include it in our next article.

[rufus]

Regarding Show and Tell and Clone:
The active player puts his or her creature/whatever into play first. So if the second player puts a clone down, isn't the SnT player's card already in play to copy?

[Finn]

They both enter at the same time. This is why Gilded Drake had become a semi-popular SB card. It uses a trigger.

[rufus]

They both enter at the same time. This is why Gilded Drake had become a semi-popular SB card. It uses a trigger.

Ah, they both enter play simultaneously, but the inactive player can see what the active player puts down before choosing a card to put into play.... Partially simultaneous. :eyebrow:

[Ziveeman]

When it comes to things like Show and Tell or Liliana of the Veil's +1, players can put the card they choose face down so that their opponent doesn't gain any information.

[Julian23]

Try putting Humility via your opponent's Eureka. In case the first permanent he puts is e.g. Terastodon or Angel of Despair, he will be able to actually destroy Humility. Note that this doesn't work if he put any of those creatures into play only after you decided to put your Humility.

[thefringthing]

Ah, they both enter play simultaneously, but the inactive player can see what the active player puts down before choosing a card to put into play.... Partially simultaneous.

The current player chooses first, then each other player chooses in turn order. A player does not have to reveal the chosen card, so long as it is clear *which* card was chosen. After all choices are made, the cards are put onto the battlefield simultaneously.

[Shawon]

Use my Tezzeret + Equipment example! I mentioned this interaction in the thread for your first article, but I guess I wasn't specific and I assumed you knew what I was referring to. I'll give you a context so that perhaps you can include it in your next article.

You are playing an Affinity mirror. You're on game 2, and your opponent has the upper hand. You have more life than he does and bigger creatures to block any alpha strikes, yet your opponent has Inkmoth Nexus on the battlefield with a Cranial Plating attached. With 5+ power and the hit it just took on you, you have one turn left to deal with it. You draw a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. It's not a flier, and your opponent is just going to kill you instead of attacking Tezz.

What do you do? You cast Tezzeret. Using the 2nd ability, which reads: "-1: Target artifact becomes a 5/5 artifact creature," you target... Cranial Plating! What happens next is neat: the Cranial Plating becomes a 5/5 creature. That doesn't sound good at first, considering you just gave your opponent another beatstick. However, look at Cranial Plating again. It's now a creature, and you can't equip a creature to another creature. Thus, your opponent's Inkmoth Nexus can still animate itself and hit you for 1 poison each turn, but your opponent is going to need more turns now to kill you with infect or it will have to rely on its new 5/5 to kill you. You have big blockers in the example so you can just protect Tezz for a turn and you can just animate an artifact to neutralize the 5/5 if none of your robots are big enough.

Another highly relevant interaction is using Tezzeret to neutralize an opponent's Jitte. Again, you give an opponent's creature deck a 5/5, but considering the nature of Affinity to have big or expendable blockers, it's worth neutralizing one card that can decimate your entire board if left unchecked.

But please, use this interaction in the next article! It's really uncommon. I use this technique against the Affinity mirror alot and most Affinity players never realize that I could Tezz-Animate their Plating.

[Hopo]

It was a bit of a letdown, since the first article described really interesting and little-known interactions, while the ones in part two are quite well known if you're familiar with the format.

Something to consider in the future:
-dredging in your draw step while controlling Sylvan Library
-phasing out a Batterskull token

[Lord Seth]

On the Show and Tell and Clone bit, it might have been interesting if you had elaborated on how it works with Hypergenesis/Eureka.

[Gammadoom]

It was a bit of a letdown, since the first article described really interesting and little-known interactions, while the ones in part two are quite well known if you're familiar with the format.

Something to consider in the future:
-dredging in your draw step while controlling Sylvan Library
-phasing out a Batterskull token

I agree with the second one. Phasing out an equipped token creature is a really cool interaction that almost no one knows about.

[Julian23]

When Stoneblade dominated the Merfolk matchup, I actually tested 4 Reality Ripple to combat Batterskull and Umezawa's Jitte. Yes, I was desperate but it actually worked ok.

Warning: Don't try this on Magic Workstation.

[Koby]

/me humbly bows

Didn't realize I was being attributed to so many odd interactions. Guess Legacy really is about knowing the cards and how they interact, moreso than having the cards.

[(nameless one)]

When Stoneblade dominated the Merfolk matchup, I actually tested 4 Reality Ripple to combat Batterskull and Umezawa's Jitte. Yes, I was desperate but it actually worked ok.

Warning: Don't try this on Magic Workstation.

Can you elaborate on this even more please? Thanks.

[Finn]

My guess is that he was Rippling the Batterskull, killing the token. When the skull returned from phase it does not cause a new token to appear.

EDIT: Isn't there a charm that does it for u?

[nitewolf9]

If you phase out a token that is equipped, doesn't the equipment stay removed from the game?

[cdr]

If you phase out a token that is equipped, doesn't the equipment stay removed from the game?

Yep. If something phases out indirectly (by being attached to something that's phasing out), it can only phase in with what it's attached to. If what it's attached to never phases back in, the indirectly phased thing stays phased out permanently. Tokens never phase back in, of course, because they cease to exist once they leave the battlefield.

[Finn]

Oh of course! That is a nifty play.

[jrw1985]

You learn something new every day. I assume the same phasing rule applies to Auras.

[Amon Amarth]

Yes, both Equipment and Auras are attached to things.

[jam3sbob]

Phasing equipped/aura'd tokens, first time I've heard of this. Nice!

[Julian23]

The Source - your source for pimpest plays.

[pryite199]

Yep. If something phases out indirectly (by being attached to something that's phasing out), it can only phase in with what it's attached to. If what it's attached to never phases back in, the indirectly phased thing stays phased out permanently. Tokens never phase back in, of course, because they cease to exist once they leave the battlefield.

Ok, maybe one of the judges around here can clear this up for me but why does phasing the equipped creature also phase out the equipment (as is implied in this context) instead of the equipment simply falling off as it does with blinking?

Ninja edit this was what the quote was originally replying to.

If you phase out a token that is equipped, doesn't the equipment stay removed from the game?

[Mewens]

Phasing's completely self-contained. You can't really apply Magic logic to it, because it plays by its own rules.



702.24f When a permanent phases out, any Auras, Equipment, or Fortifications attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out “indirectly.” An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification that phased out indirectly won’t phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the permanent it’s attached to.

...
702.24k Phased-out tokens cease to exist as a state-based action.

Remember that phasing isn't actually leaving or entering the battlefield, so it doesn't trigger anything.

[lyracian]

Even if these are, mostly, more well known interactions I still enjoyed the article.

While Obvious I had not really thought about the Sword L/S or F/I interaction if one half got countered; I always thought of them as two separate effects not one effect doing two things.

[alderon666]

Dafuq? These articles need moar phasing and less Knight/Maze.

Vision Charm only phases out artifacts.

[Julian23]

I wonder how many people would actually windmill-slam Nether Void onto the table off their opponent's Show and Tell with The Abyss already in play.

[Shawon]

I wonder how many people would actually windmill-slam Nether Void onto the table off their opponent's Show and Tell with The Abyss already in play.

Guilty as charged, minus the Show and Tell. I still won that game (I was playing Pox).

[KobeBryan]

Someone needs to write an article on Parallax wave, qasali pridemage

Phyrexian tower/tideholler sculler

mangara/vial/flickerwisp.

[Julian23]

Another one:

With Laboratory Maniac in play, activating Chromatic Sphere gets around any kind of removal on Maniac that would otherwise work. You "draw" the card without passing priority but only get to look at it once you're doing casting. This comes up in case you announce a spell and then to proceed paying the manacost including activating Chromatic Sphere (e.g. to filter mana). You draw the card while paying for the spell but only get to look at it once you're done casting the spell. At which point, Maniac's triggered ability is already on the stack.

When using Chromatic Sphere to pay for a spell on MODO, it will depict a generic cardback in your hand until you're done casting the spell.

[alderon666]

Another one:

With Laboratory Maniac in play, activating Chromatic Sphere gets around any kind of removal on Maniac that would otherwise work. You "draw" the card without passing priority but only get to look at it once you're doing casting. This comes up in case you announce a spell and then to proceed paying the manacost including activating Chromatic Sphere (e.g. to filter mana). You draw the card while paying for the spell but only get to look at it once you're done casting the spell. At which point, Maniac's triggered ability is already on the stack.

When using Chromatic Sphere to pay for a spell on MODO, it will depict a generic cardback in your hand until you're done casting the spell.

Nitpick there, but the Maniac ability is a replacement effect... wouldn't you just win during the casting of the spell? LOL.

"I don't always win, but when I do it's during the cast of a spell."

[Hopo]

with Chromatic Sphere, you don't even have to be casting anything. You just activate it for mana and win. Finally there's a real application for that ages old cantripping mana ability!

[dahcmai]

Fairly well known actually (at least around here), but I was always fond of the interaction of split second and Punishing Fire with a Burnwillows out. Kind of slick how you can get a response to Extirpate for once.


I have to admit I never thought of phasin out a Batterskull token before. I think I'll have to put some use to that.

[Julian23]

Oh yeah, you're right, it's an replacement effect. It just feels often feels like a triggered ability while playing :-)

[alderon666]

Once I heard some player babbling about how you could cast a Tendrils of Agony at 1 life using a City of Brass and not lose. Something about the trigger of Storm and the pain from the land triggering at the same time and you get to choose order...

Anyone know something about this? Sound really interesting and might actually be relevent when playing TES.

[The Treefolk Master]

This one is kind of basic when compared to the Phasing Out mayhem. If player A controls both an Energy Field and a Token, and the token goes to the graveyard, the ability of Energy Field will not trigger and you will NOT have to sacrifice it, as tokens are not actually cards. Similarly, you cannot name, say, "Spirit" with Runed Halo/Pithing Needle, as tokens are not cards.

This applies to the 0.0001% of the Legacy population that plays MUC or against MUC, and I've won more matches than I can count due to my opponent punting against Energy Field.

[bowvamp]

@alderon666:
I'm perty shure that doesn't work. If something allowed you to get the mana and then put something on the stack then whatever was put on the stack would have to leave the stack before you played a sorcery speed spell.

[(nameless one)]

I always get judge calls whenever I do this:


I have Sensei's Divining Top, Kuldotha Forgemaster and another artifact.

I would activate the tap: draw ability of Top, then the 1: top 3, then Forgemaster's ability sacrificing Top. Then Forgemaster's search ability resolves first, then so forth. What I always get questioned with is that the draw ability with Top won't resolve since the Top is not put on top of the library. It's not really tricky since Top going on top of the library is part of resolution and not the cost.

Another one is Ghost Quarter and City of Traitors. While you have City on the field and GQuarter is entering the field, while City's trigger is on the stack, you can activate GQuarter targeting City to grab you a basic land.

Another one is Genju of the Fields (back in my Quinn days). Unlike the ruling for Lifelink, Genju's life gain ability can be stacked. If you activate it twice, it will still remain 2/5 but if it deals damage, you'll gain twice as much life.

And under Humility, if you activate it, it will keep its ability, unlike Mishra's Factory (although Factory is will still be a 2/2 under Humility) because it gained its ability on top of Humility's replacement ability (Factory's ability will be replace since it already has the ability under Humility's replacement ability even before it turned into a creature.

What I want to clear is if there's a Humility on the field and a land becomes a creature, will that land lose its mana ability?

[Ignithas_]

I always get judge calls whenever I do this:


I have Sensei's Divining Top, Kuldotha Forgemaster and another artifact.

I would activate the tap: draw ability of Top, then the 1: top 3, then Forgemaster's ability sacrificing Top. Then Forgemaster's search ability resolves first, then so forth. What I always get questioned with is that the draw ability with Top won't resolve since the Top is not put on top of the library. It's not really tricky since Top going on top of the library is part of resolution and not the cost.

Similarly, you can do this with Goblin Welder and Thopter Foundry
I get often calls when I play Mangara of Corondar+Karakas/Stonecloaker/Flickerwisp off a Vial.
Then often some SneakShow decks think that they can activate the ability from Griselbrand when I ShownTell a Phyrexian Revoker in.

[Mewens]

@dahcmai
Ha, thanks for mentioning the split-second interaction. I didn't know that one!

@alderon666
Regarding paying for Tendrils w/ City of Brass at 1 and living to TES another day:



603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

Relevant bit is the first line, but the really relevant bit is the bolded part. Here's how you do it -- you announce you're casting Tendrils, then you pay the costs (2BB in this case), using City to pay for part of that. This triggers City, but the trigger won't go on the stack yet -- you don't pass priority (in this case, back to yourself) until after you've paid all the costs.



601.2h Once the steps described in 601.2a–g are completed (those are the steps for casting spells), the spell becomes cast. Any abilities that trigger when a spell is cast or put onto the stack trigger at this time. If the spell’s controller had priority before casting it, he or she gets priority.


Storm's also a triggered ability; since you control both triggers, and both trigger at the same time (even though City technically happened earlier), you choose which order to play them in. Stack City's trigger, then storm; the storm will resolve first and make a bunch of Tendrils copies that you play; each of those will then resolve before the City trigger will.

[Julian23]

What I want to clear is if there's a Humility on the field and a land becomes a creature, will that land lose its mana ability?

Yes!

Another one:

Countering a morph with Ertai's Meddling creates a face-up, colorless 2/2 creature, once the copy resolves.