Behave Yourself: On Bad Gaming Habits and Proper Play Etiquette

[metamet]

Behave Yourself: On Bad Gaming Habits and Proper Play Etiquette (http://www.quietspeculation.com/2012/08/behave-yourself-on-bad-gaming-habits-and-proper-play-etiquette/)

Well, he hit just about all of my pet peeves. Anyone got any others?

[Esper3k]

-Not really a pet peeve per se, but I kind of think it's weird & awkward when you try and make small talk with an opponent before a game (where are you from, etc.) and they just stare at you blankly like a Stuffy Doll.

-When people talk to their friends / texting on their phone during matches and you have to somehow be the asshole that tells them to stop doing that. (Yes, I know you should probably call a judge)

-Talking to your friends about how badly your opponent played / how you can't believe you lost to X... when your opponent is still in front of you!

[coraz86]

A draft got canceled last night because half the people who showed up didn't think they could make their money back on what they could open. Not because they don't like to draft or anything else rational; because they couldn't make their money back.

This particular group of people does this a lot. I wonder how any of them is going to handle, say, car ownership.

[Aggro_zombies]

A draft got canceled last night because half the people who showed up didn't think they could make their money back on what they could open. Not because they don't like to draft or anything else rational; because they couldn't make their money back.

This particular group of people does this a lot. I wonder how any of them is going to handle, say, car ownership.
I could understand not wanting to open packs for value, but does the experience of drafting and playing have literally no worth to them? Is that just supposed to be a free bonus on top of the cost of packs? I don't understand.

EDIT: The one thing that drives me nuts is when people take calls - yes, calls! - in the middle of a match. "No, sorry babe, I'm playing Magic right now...yeah, I'll be home in a couple hours...love you too babe..." while I'm sitting there waiting for them to finish their turns. I mean, I don't want to be a jackass and interrupt them, but come the fuck on.

Also, if you're going to have your phone on the table, please set it to silent before the round starts. Having your phone start ringing or vibrating in the middle of a match is super distracting not just for your opponent, but for everyone else at the same table who can hear/feel it going off.

Also, the headphones thing seems like it could be an easy way to cheat, especially if you've got your headphones plugged into a smartphone. Hi, yes, I'll take the call from my friend standing a short distance behind you and pretend to rock out while they read off the contents of your hand.

[TorpidNinja]

The GG thing seems to be a matter of tone rather than a necessary slight. When playing at LGSs I've seen people perfectly amicably say GG and move on.

Also, the Chandra story needs a little more detail.

[dsck]

I personally get my deck more randomized when I do pile shuffle and regular shuffle rather than just regular shuffle. Especially after a long game.

"Flipping Your Opponent’s Deck Around"

Lol. It takes like 1 second to fix it yourself and your opponent might be thinking something completely different than how he should place your deck perfectly on the table.

"Showing Your Opponent How You Sideboarded" + "still had all deez"

If people get offended by this I suggest you grow some balls. And if you got completely trashed despite your opponent siding wrong you have something to think about...

[Julian23]

The best part about this article: "I STILL HAD ALL DEEZ !!"
Seriously, I can't get this song outta my head.

[Aggro_zombies]

"Showing Your Opponent How You Sideboarded" + "still had all deez"

If people get offended by this I suggest you grow some balls. And if you got completely trashed despite your opponent siding wrong you have something to think about...
Still-had-all-deezing your opponent is pretty much always unnecessary, unless they specifically ask to see your hand after the game/match. Virtually everyone I've run into who SHAD'ed me was doing so to be a jerk and/or to rub it in. It doesn't really bother me to know that I was dead in several ways, but the sentiment is what matters here and is part of the larger antisocial tendencies that make the competitive MTG pretty miserable.

Put another way, it's the winner's version of telling your opponent they were totally dead next turn after you lost. It doesn't matter what cards you had in hand, what was on top of your library, or what sick plays you could have made: the game came to a conclusion independent of those.

[Koby]

I personally get my deck more randomized when I do pile shuffle and regular shuffle rather than just regular shuffle. Especially after a long game.

"Flipping Your Opponent’s Deck Around"

Lol. It takes like 1 second to fix it yourself and your opponent might be thinking something completely different than how he should place your deck perfectly on the table.


On the first note, pile "shuffling" doesn't sufficiently randomize your deck when done alone by DCI and MTR standards. You shouldn't start with a pile shuffle as all it does is re-order deck in a knowable pattern.

On the second note, the author is referring to shuffle on half of the deck in opposite orientation of the second half. I often refer to it as "cubing" the deck: Imagine the cards facing: ^vv^^v^v^vv^^^vv which can ruin some sleeves if shuffled like this.

[dsck]

On the first note, pile "shuffling" doesn't sufficiently randomize your deck when done alone by DCI and MTR standards. You shouldn't start with a pile shuffle as all it does is re-order deck in a knowable pattern.

I havent ever seen anyone who ONLY pile shuffles and doesnt do regular shuffle.


On the second note, the author is referring to shuffle on half of the deck in opposite orientation of the second half. I often refer to it as "cubing" the deck: Imagine the cards facing: ^vv^^v^v^vv^^^vv which can ruin some sleeves if shuffled like this.

Well that explains it, it felt silly to be upset over something small as placing deck correctly.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah, agree with a lot of the sentiment expressed in this article. Shitty attitudes in Magic are a major reason why I just quit showing up for a lot of Standard stuff. The people around me just seemed to be sponging off each other's giant butthole attitudes and descending further and further into madness with each passing year.

I don't know that I can get behind the idea of always scooping when you don't think there's an answer, or for that matter I wonder if the "don't play Turbofog" sentiment isn't partially tongue-in-cheek. I'm definitely in the "fuck you, kill me" camp; that's not to say I never scoop, but I don't believe in picking up my cards to a soft lock either. Still, I see what you did there.

All in all, hubris is the worst possible thing you can bring to a gaming situation, especially when you have the chance to play against someone who is a complete stranger. People can defend these actions as "jedi mind tricks" all they want, but they are really just assholes being assholes who likes to exert their assholes over people and be bigger trolls IRL than they are on the Internets. Shame shame shame.

[jrw1985]

Player against High Tide last week. After dinking around for 10 minutes he finally Wishes for a Brainfreeze. Dude hasn't been keeping track of his storm so when he Freezes me I just ask, "How much?" He says, "They usually scoop." So he went through the game and counted up that he had cast 15 spells, and I'm left with 3 cards in my library. He had tons of mana though so he Blue Sunned me to death immediately. The point is, if you're playing a Storm deck keep track of your fucking Storm. Don't just assume that your opponent is fucking obligated to scoop whenever you're too lazy to keep track of that shit. That shit's rude as hell. "I took a 10 minute turn! Why aren't you conceding?"

[Julian23]

People can defend these actions as "jedi mind tricks" all they want, but they are really just assholes being assholes who likes to exert their assholes over people and be bigger trolls IRL than they are on the Internets. Shame shame shame.

There's a difference between "My opponent is an asshole" and "I played sloopy and made a mistake and now I'm blaming my opponent who's pinning me on it". Jedi Mind tricks only work on people that handle a given situation with too much confidence / too sloopy.

[Jenni]

It always irks me when players say things like "you just got lucky!" or "I would have won if I..." (followed by an excuse like getting mana screwed or drawing poorly, etc). Just accept the loss with some grace, please.

[Lord Seth]

I don't see what's so bad about calling out to your friends where they're playing. It'll make the line shorter...

[Michael Keller]

I've been playing since Bill Clinton's first term, and honestly I have never had an issue with any of my opponents in all that time - up until this very day. If I beat an opponent and it irritates them, I just sympathize with them because: a) you cannot change peoples' demeanor in the span of a game of Magic, b) you're in a lose-lose situation to begin with as your opponent is just naturally pissed off all the time or just always wants to win - kind of souring your win, and c) you have to accept the fact people are different and fueling the fire is just going to make matters worse.

I just get really loose and happy when I play, and I think it is inviting for an opponent to try and loosen up a bit too. I can feel out an opponent the second they approach me, and to be honest it's really not that big of a deal to me. I just let my play do the talking.

Sometimes excessive "chit-chat" can be irritating.

[Esper3k]

I don't see what's so bad about calling out to your friends where they're playing. It'll make the line shorter...

When you get some guy that goes up to the list, blocks everyone's view, turns around (hitting people with his backpack) repeatedly between shouting to his friends and squinting at the pairings... that's when it really gets obnoxious.

[Awaclus]

On pile shuffling:

It doesn't randomize your deck. Nothing randomizes your deck, because randomness doesn't exist. Rather than randomize your deck, you should just change the order of the cards and make sure that no player knows the order of the cards or any patterns or clumps among them. Pile shuffling doesn't make sure that no player knows the order of the cards, but it does change the order of the cards pretty dramatically. Alone, it isn't enough, but when combined with other kinds of shuffle techniques, it improves the result. Besides, it should take under 20 seconds from anyone who's used to doing it, it isn't a huge waste of time (for example, in the YouTube video "Tomoharu Saito shuffles", he does it in about 15 seconds, and my personal record is 16.4 seconds).

[Koby]

On pile shuffling:

It doesn't randomize your deck. Nothing randomizes your deck, because randomness doesn't exist. Rather than randomize your deck, you should just change the order of the cards and make sure that no player knows the order of the cards or any patterns or clumps among them. Pile shuffling doesn't make sure that no player knows the order of the cards, but it does change the order of the cards pretty dramatically. Alone, it isn't enough, but when combined with other kinds of shuffle techniques, it improves the result. Besides, it should take under 20 seconds from anyone who's used to doing it, it isn't a huge waste of time (for example, in the YouTube video "Tomoharu Saito shuffles", he does it in about 15 seconds, and my personal record is 16.4 seconds).

He does it in 15 seconds, reveals a card during the piling, then presents his deck with no additional randomization.

Any judge watching a player do this should immediately grab the deck and hand out a warning for insufficient randomization.

[rxavage]

Is Saito the player mentioned in Flores's article that was linked in Op's?

[Namida]

Still-had-all-deezing your opponent is pretty much always unnecessary...Put another way, it's the winner's version of telling your opponent they were totally dead next turn after you lost. It doesn't matter what cards you had in hand, what was on top of your library, or what sick plays you could have made: the game came to a conclusion independent of those.

"Still-had-all-deez" is something I find to be perfectly acceptable in response to "You were dead next turn if you let me live to see it." Is it bad form to let someone tell you in vivid detail how badly you would have lost only to show them that you had the trump in your hand anyway?

[Bignasty197]

A few weeks ago, I played against a burn player who had a Fire and Lightning premium deck with a few modifications that got the nut draw 2/3 of the games and just crushed me(I was playing Painter/Stone). After the match, he goes on to condescendingly tell me that I misplayed by playing something before I played another something and tries to give me deck building advice on what I should change about my deck. All the suggestions were bad(splash white for Swords to Plowshares and COP:red). I forgot about it and let it go until top 8 was posted and he came up to me and told me, "It looks like no top 8 for you this week." Here is the question:

Am I wrong for thinking, "Dude, you play burn...shut the fuck up."?

I didn't say anything to him because I am a better person than that and I am sportsmanlike but I really thought he was being a douche. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

[Aggro_zombies]

"Still-had-all-deez" is something I find to be perfectly acceptable in response to "You were dead next turn if you let me live to see it." Is it bad form to let someone tell you in vivid detail how badly you would have lost only to show them that you had the trump in your hand anyway?
Yes.

Responding to pettiness with pettiness does not a better Magic community make. In my experience, people who tell you how dead they were next turn are usually trying to make themselves feel better about losing by rationalizing your victory away as luck; they just don't take losses well. Still-had-all-deezing them might give you a laugh, but it isn't going to make them feel better about their loss, and it certainly isn't going to make them not repeat their behavior the next time they feel they shouldn't have lost. It just makes the community worse overall, and the competitive community is already shitty enough when you consider the douchebag wannabe pros, the socially inept gamer stereotypes, and the endless hive mind echo chamber of the internet.

[Namida]

That's certainly fair. I don't show my opponent my hand after the game to get a laugh or to make them feel inept, but I can easily see how it could appear that way to an opponent.

[Finn]

I have played people with all the personality qualities of a steamed vegetable. People born cacaseca simply have no people skills. But the shit that pisses me off are the twats who ask me "Done?" after every single move I make. If I ever happen to flippantly respond with anything other than a clear "no", I can expect to hear a judge call.

[DarkConfidant]

First off great article. I especially liked the comments on asking your opponent about shuffling given how expensive some of the Legacy decks are.

The only thing I might contribute is on the GG subject. I believe Chapin did an article a while back that talked about post game comments. He suggested that as an alternative (assuming your opponent didn't lose and drop) that one should say "Good luck in the next round" as opposed to "Good game".

Oh one more thing to add to the list: don't play annoyingly large playmats!

[UnsungHero]

I honestly think the worst thing any player can do is continuously shuffle your hand and flick your cards. If any one watches the Star City Games feature matches you know exactly what I am talking about.

[mishima_kazuya]

The only thing I might contribute is on the GG subject. I believe Chapin did an article a while back that talked about post game comments. He suggested that as an alternative (assuming your opponent didn't lose and drop) that one should say "Good luck in the next round" as opposed to "Good game".



This a lot.

I actually rarely say GG, as more than 50% of Magic games I've played recently in tournaments have been one sided affairs. So I just say "Good luck in the next round" and move on.

As a matter of fact, I think it is quite rude to say Good Game when the match was one-sided and one or both players felt miserable playing.

Is it really Good Game when one player locks the other from playing Magic with Thalia+Mother of Runes and next game Turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary into infinite Wastelands?

[Koby]

Is it really Good Game when one player locks the other from playing Magic with Thalia+Mother of Runes and next game Turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary into infinite Wastelands?

Of course it is! It means you didn't lose to Turn 1 Belcher, or turn 2 Ad Nauseum draw a billion cards then Tendrils you for 20! :tongue:

[xfxf]

"Showing Your Opponent How You Sideboarded" + "still had all deez"

If people get offended by this I suggest you grow some balls. And if you got completely trashed despite your opponent siding wrong you have something to think about...

This, the linked GG article and a couple other points which I'm too lazy to point out... People who are irritated by these should play actual sports like football (soccer) to see the level of acceptable banter, mind games and the provocations that goes on. If you are not used to it you'll be pissed off and demoralized at the end of the game but the other guy will be like "hey, it happens in the game. we're cool?". I think it happens in a much mellower and passive aggressive tone in Magic. Most of us can't handle it because most of us are too nerdy to handle the competitive macho quarrel, that's why we spend hours playing Magic instead of doing sports :laugh: amirite or what?

[Tammit67]

Is it really Good Game when one player locks the other from playing Magic with aven mindcenscor and next game aven mindcenscor?

Still mad. My poor Doomsday.

"Good luck in the next round" is probably the best thing to say. It is just an awkward default in the last round. So long as you aren't a dick, things should be fine. With the exception of maybe 2 players, everyone in my area I interact with is courteous. Play long enough at a group of stores and place every so often, and people tend to lighten up. It's only when I go to larger events and take issue with people riffle shuffling any deck that either damages the cards, or lets them see the deck as it is being shuffled and I point that out that problems arise.

[Phoenix Ignition]

First article that I disagree with a large majority of.

-Flipping your opponent's deck around: Unless you are talking about shuffling half the cards in upside-down then I think you're reading wayyy too much into the abilities of your opponent. Most sleeves look the exact same from either direction, and if anyone actually picks up your deck to cut it or to shuffle it a bit there is a large chance they will have forgotten the exact orientation they picked your deck up from. Some people play with their decks perpendicular to the table, many play with it parallel, and after picking it up you might have forgotten the direction of the cards yourself. It's not bad manners, it's an honest mistake.

-Pile shuffling more than once: If you're fast at it there's nothing wrong with it. You make the improper assumption that it randomizes the deck less than just mashing it together or riffle shuffling, but these are also inherently non-random. If you pile shuffle, then riffle, then pile again, you actually are increasing the randomness in the deck (every ~6th card, every ~2nd card, every ~6th card again gets mixed instead of just every ~2nd, every ~2nd, every ~2nd). Randomness from shuffling isn't possible, but using 2 pile shuffles doesn't mean it's less random, if used with other semi-randomization. Obviously, stalling is stalling, but that's not what this is about.

-Wearing Headphones: It must be implied here that you think everyone can understand each other normally, and no one can understand each other when 1 of them is listening to headphones. I don't agree with this assessment, as I've had many opponents who can't enunciate the difference between "go ahead" and "thinking." I've had many more opponents who listen to headphones but can communicate clearly. Some people like listening to music as it calms them. Just because you think they look like a tool doesn't mean they are one, you're just using blanket insults or stereotypes. That's very bad etiquette in itself.

-Not acknowledging when you're drawing dead: There are a million things I could say about the non-last game of the series and why you should keep playing under any situation other than the one where you think the opponent will win because the last game you play is a draw (a big reason is to see more of their deck and any surprises that might be in there). But you added "but there is generally no reason to drag out the last game in a match." Even in the last game, you may have outs you did not think of before. Unless you are one of the best players in the world you don't know what series of actions may lead you to win. The opponent attacking incorrectly, not seeing their path to victory (and therefore give you multiple turns to draw into answers), or even making some play errors like cracking extra fetch lands when you have burn cards in your deck are all reasons to keep going. Magic cards have a lot of interactions you might not have at the top of your mind when you're in a losing position, but if you draw into some card like an Echoing Truth and the opponent left up only 5 Soldier Tokens as blockers, you might have a chance to win. I have won games I thought were completely lost because I drew both of my Echoing Truths in a row in merfolk and that was literally my only out. Never give up unless the opponent has you dead and you have no chance to draw any more outs (even then they might not see the win).

-Handshakes: I see no reason this is required for etiquette. My hands are always sweaty and cold when I play, I see no reason to force this on people. I don't want to touch other people's hands either. Clasping hands doesn't show integrity more than saying GG after you lose does, so just pick a way to not be a dick and go with it. Shaking hands isn't necessary.

Emotions will always run wild at tournaments. You should try your best to not let them make you do silly things, but looking too deeply into what is bad etiquette isn't really a way to fix that (really? Wearing headphones makes you a tool?).

[TsumiBand]

There's a difference between "My opponent is an asshole" and "I played sloopy and made a mistake and now I'm blaming my opponent who's pinning me on it". Jedi Mind tricks only work on people that handle a given situation with too much confidence / too sloopy.

You misunderstand me, I'm using asshole in context of the types of behavior described in the relevant article.

The worst example of this kind of behavior is when people reserve their manners for people they have determined 'deserve it'; in other words, they act like fuckheads to psyche out randoms and then they clean up their act when it's a respected opponent or colleague. Since when was good sportsmanship something you save for people you don't have to impress?

One of the things that was impressed on me pretty early in playing the game came to me after I blew out one of the guys who taught me how to play 2-0 at an FNM. At this point I was just so used to seeing players sort through the next couple of cards in their deck after a loss to see what was coming up that could have saved them, that I didn't realize it would be rude to exhibit the same behavior if you won. He let me know right away that it was an ugly habit to get involved in; if you lost there's not much sense in seeing what might have been drawn, and if you win there's no point in seeing how many more answers you would have drawn, so either way you are just being a douche hammer.

Still Had All Deez and showing off your sideboard definitely strike me as the same kind of behavior. The usual motivation behind someone doing this is entirely just to gloat, or to impress upon someone that it was foolish to even attempt to play. That might embiggen the winning player but it does nothing for the game itself. Gloat at the afterparty if you need your dick rubbed that bad, that it isn't enough to win but to stick it in a guy's face. Yeah, I speak with a little bit of bitterness on this one; it's just fucking rude.

[Kich867]

I grossly disagree with the part about saying GG. I come from the competitive gaming scene and in virtually all of them saying GG at the end of a match (be it CS1.6, LoL, SC2) is expected regardless of the games.

If I lose, I extend my hand and say GG, if I win I extend my hand and say GG. The only reason you could take that offensively is insecurity and the assumption that people are always trying to make fun of you.

If you say it like a dick, sure, but if they smile and say "Good games" in a non-threatening tone they obviously aren't slighting you..

[kwis]

GG can get on someones nerves if it's a complete blowout. Sometimes it's better to just say well played or some appropriate compliment for the given game.

[Esper3k]

I used to say GG after every match regardless of the outcome, but I have since been convinced now (by others) that it's best to only do it if you lost the match.

You never know how someone might be feeling after a loss and there's really no need to make someone feel like you're rubbing it in (even unintentionally). If they lost and offer the GG first, then by all means return it, but I won't say it first unless I lost the match.

[joemauer]

You misunderstand me, I'm using asshole in context of the types of behavior described in the relevant article.

The worst example of this kind of behavior is when people reserve their manners for people they have determined 'deserve it'; in other words, they act like fuckheads to psyche out randoms and then they clean up their act when it's a respected opponent or colleague. Since when was good sportsmanship something you save for people you don't have to impress?

One of the things that was impressed on me pretty early in playing the game came to me after I blew out one of the guys who taught me how to play 2-0 at an FNM. At this point I was just so used to seeing players sort through the next couple of cards in their deck after a loss to see what was coming up that could have saved them, that I didn't realize it would be rude to exhibit the same behavior if you won. He let me know right away that it was an ugly habit to get involved in; if you lost there's not much sense in seeing what might have been drawn, and if you win there's no point in seeing how many more answers you would have drawn, so either way you are just being a douche hammer.

Still Had All Deez and showing off your sideboard definitely strike me as the same kind of behavior. The usual motivation behind someone doing this is entirely just to gloat, or to impress upon someone that it was foolish to even attempt to play. That might embiggen the winning player but it does nothing for the game itself. Gloat at the afterparty if you need your dick rubbed that bad, that it isn't enough to win but to stick it in a guy's face. Yeah, I speak with a little bit of bitterness on this one; it's just fucking rude.

Sensitive are we?

There is a stark difference between people not understanding the concept of a line that should move fluidly and people that say something that just rubs you the wrong way.

I could really care less if my opponent gets bent out of shape if I don't say good game in the right tone.
What do you guys expect to hear after y'all lose?
"Sorry little Jimmy about your game loss. I understand how it feels to lose. Perhaps with a little more practice and just a little luck then you might be able to really succeed with that deck of yours."
Or would I offend little Jimmy for insinuating that he did not practice enough?

Of course I am going to laugh at you if you draw nothing but Grizzelbrands our entire game. I might even do some sort of victory dance at the end of our match if I win.

At the end of the day it is just a game. I am not trying to get into my opponent's pants and I could care less if he gets offended by me.

[TsumiBand]

Sensitive are we?

There is a stark difference between people not understanding the concept of a line that should move fluidly and people that say something that just rubs you the wrong way.

I could really care less if my opponent gets bent out of shape if I don't say good game in the right tone.
What do you guys expect to hear after y'all lose?
"Sorry little Jimmy about your game loss. I understand how it feels to lose. Perhaps with a little more practice and just a little luck then you might be able to really succeed with that deck of yours."
Or would I offend little Jimmy for insinuating that he did not practice enough?

Of course I am going to laugh at you if you draw nothing but Grizzelbrands our entire game. I might even do some sort of victory dance at the end of our match if I win.

At the end of the day it is just a game. I am not trying to get into my opponent's pants and I could care less if he gets offended by me.

We are really genuinely talking about different shit here. I don't need someone to pull on my dick when I lose; but you know what, I just want to play the game with people that act, in my view, as adults.

The last time I played Magic I lost more games than I won, and I did so enjoying myself because I was surrounded with people who had a similar attitude towards the game. It's not even about "competitive vs. casual", or anything similar.

That's the neat thing about being a grown-ass man, is I do decide the company I keep on my spare time. And so it follows that if I don't feel like putting up with immature fuckwads at a certain kind of Magic event, I get to weigh the pros and cons of being there against doing other shit, and if cons > pros I go elsewhere. I don't understand what's so difficult about this idea.

[Hopo]

I just want to play the game with people that act, in my view, as adults.


I feel the same. As someone who in general is 15+ years older than an average player of the game, I just find it being a bigger pleasure playing against people who already know how to behave when other people are involved. Not like in school yard.

It's a shame that people even need this kind of advise. I'd love to take good manners for granted.

[catmint]

-Handshakes: I see no reason this is required for etiquette. My hands are always sweaty and cold when I play, I see no reason to force this on people. I don't want to touch other people's hands either. Clasping hands doesn't show integrity more than saying GG after you lose does, so just pick a way to not be a dick and go with it. Shaking hands isn't necessary.

Germ phobia like Sheldon Cooper? :tongue:
I think it is good sportsmanship to offer/reply the handshake. There are sweaty & bloody boxers hugging each other after beating their ass up... A little sweaty hand is something people should be able to deal with. You can have a tissue with you to dry it.

[Amon Amarth]

We are really genuinely talking about different shit here. I don't need someone to pull on my dick when I lose; but you know what, I just want to play the game with people that act, in my view, as adults.

The last time I played Magic I lost more games than I won, and I did so enjoying myself because I was surrounded with people who had a similar attitude towards the game. It's not even about "competitive vs. casual", or anything similar.

That's the neat thing about being a grown-ass man, is I do decide the company I keep on my spare time. And so it follows that if I don't feel like putting up with immature fuckwads at a certain kind of Magic event, I get to weigh the pros and cons of being there against doing other shit, and if cons > pros I go elsewhere. I don't understand what's so difficult about this idea.

If I was a chick I'd straight up love you. As a man, however, ya got my respect.

[BWM]

Missed one big point in the article (something I get annoyed with a lot):

* Personal Hygiene! I can understand that you don't feel like taking showers at all, but please do not sit next to me when the last shower you got was for christmas. A little deodorant goes a long way.

Please don't eat during a match with me, or if you really really have to do, try to eat with your mouth closed and don't spit random parts of food in my general direction (or on my cards).
Also, don't smear ketchup on my cards.



Also, something that's probably more a problem in Europe than in the States:
Don't talk to your friends in a language your opponent does not understand, especially not during the match. I don't care what you're telling him, to me it's outside assistance all the time!


In the case of long drawn-out slow games that make the rounds go longer. I'd like it if in the IPG there would be a section saying:
"If two players are still playing in their match when time is called, and neither player has any chances to get any type of prizes. Those players do NOT receive their five extra turns, because both of them are out of contention and they just slow down the entire tournament"

[Julian23]

In the case of long drawn-out slow games that make the rounds go longer. I'd like it if in the IPG there would be a section saying:
"If two players are still playing in their match when time is called, and neither player has any chances to get any type of prizes. Those players do NOT receive their five extra turns, because both of them are out of contention and they just slow down the entire tournament"

lol. Not gonna happen ever. And I'm glad it won't.

[Hof]

Don’t play Turbofog. It’s bad, and if it’s the type of deck that you enjoy playing you should feel bad. You are worse than the guy playing Battle of Wits. At least they can win in turns.

I can't tell how serious this part about Turbofog is meant, but if it is seriously meant I would like to turn it around and say: Don't get upset by your opponent's choice of deck - for any reason. Playing against many different types of decks and sometimes random, possibly 'bad' decks you did not expect to face is just part of the game. You may complain about your own deck choice, and about pairings, randomness, and bad luck. But complaining about a particular deck your opponent has chosen for some reason, because you consider it 'bad' or 'not fun' is not proper IMO.

[xfxf]

I think he was trying to be funny and gain readers' sympathy on the assumption that majority would share his sentiments towards this deck.

[catmint]

Good article. Made me realize that 'I got all deez' is something i did once or twice. My intension was to comfort my opponent, since he was thinking a lot and really feeling that the game was very close. I felt by showing him what I had, he could just accept that it was a clear loss with this draw.

[csy]

I just want people to stop smelling like 4H clubs when they go to events. Wash your damned everything, you know who you are.

[rxavage]

I just want people to stop smelling like 4H clubs when they go to events. Wash your damned everything, you know who you are.

Yes. People usually just stop at shower and deoderant but what good is a shower when they put the same crusty clothes they've been wearing for days/weeks.


I personally hate the players keep their left over takeout food with them and put it on the table while plaing, that shit nauseates, I dont want to smell your kung pow chicken or italian with everything.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Now, it might be true that I made a called shot that I wanted to “ruin that kid’s day” at the very beginning of the tournament, and it also might be true that I giggled uncontrollably as I shuffled up for our match in round four, but I’m not trying to make myself out to be a hero here.

What I’m getting at is that there is a lot of rudeness going around in the world of competitive Magic and that it would be great for the game as a whole if we all worked harder at respecting our fellow competitors. I’ve frequently heard many players saying that they can’t stand the competitive nature of even an FNM, which is pretty much supposed to be casual Magic with promos.

Why are these two paragraphs next to each other? Way to set yourself up for failure.


Listen, I know that you like your friends a lot. I’m sure that they’re great people and all, but they should have to wait in line just like everybody else. Not to mention that by turning around to call to them you are either taking up more space and preventing somebody else from seeing the board or yelling in somebody’s ear.

This is just stupid. By calling out your friends' pairings you're reducing the traffic flow, this is just an idiotic, "Oh, I want you to suffer too" attitude. Buck the fuck up, chuck.


I’m not even sure how this one even happens, but it tends to happen to me at least once a tournament. When you pick up your opponent’s deck to shuffle it, you should make sure you put it back facing the same direction as when you picked it up. Honestly, I don’t know what part of shuffling has anything to do with changing the orientation of the deck, so this one is really baffling to me.

Is this bad etiquette or a minor confusion you should get the fuck over?


This one isn’t especially rude, but it just eats time off the clock. If your opponent is a documented cheater then this is acceptable. I can also see doing it at very high level play when both players are otherwise playing at a crisp pace. For the most part, though, a simple cut should do the trick.

Really?

Shuffling is a good habit to get into. Part of being in that habit is being able to do this quickly. I mean if you're pile shuffling everytime then sure.


I strongly recommend that everybody familiarizes themselves with this piece by Michael Flores on pile shuffling.

Basically, the point of his post is that pile shuffling is inefficient, not random and only useful in terms of counting a deck. Performing two pile shuffles before one game is a fantastic way to eat clock and will increase the number of unintentional draws you receive overall.

Performing a pile shuffle after a long game is behavior that I would argue borders on stalling, though in most players hands I am willing to admit that it is probably unintentional. Do everybody a favor and share the above Flores post though. It is beneficial on multiple levels.

This is another thing that I don’t think is rude, per se, but it is ungodly boring to watch my opponent pile shuffle while I actually randomize my deck.

So is this just going to be a list of irrational pet peeves, because you start off with some premise that this was about bad behavior in the Magic community I think.


This is something that is especially relevant in eternal formats. People near-constantly miss the life loss from fetchlands and Force of Wills. It takes all of two seconds to confirm life total changes as they happen.

I played against an extremely unpleasant individual piloting Merfolk when last I was in Indianapolis and he would never confirm when I stated life totals aloud. I don’t know if his intention was to tilt me or if he was just otherwise being a curmudgeon, but it made the entire match miserable.

I am baffled that he thinks there's a difference between taking a minute amount of time to confirm life totals and taking a minute amount of time to confirm that a deck is shuffled, incidentally.


Additionally, sometimes your opponent is just less experienced than you are. Just chill out and give the kid a break. When somebody is actually slow rolling you, it should be obvious.

Pace of Play

Your pace of play isn’t only important to you and your opponent. When you go to time, you cost everybody in the event hall a chunk of their day as well. Fifty minutes should be more than enough time to finish three games the vast majority of the time. If you’re going to bring a deck like lands to an event, then do everybody a favor and make yourself immensely familiar with the deck.

wut


Don’t play Turbofog. It’s bad, and if it’s the type of deck that you enjoy playing you should feel bad. You are worse than the guy playing Battle of Wits. At least they can win in turns.

Okay, so this is just a rambling list of pet peeves.

Fuck off?


There is no greater way to dagger your opponent than to show them how wrongly you sideboarded after you beat them. If you lost then it’s perfectly acceptable to ask what you did wrong. Most players mean well when they win and do this, but it really just translates to rub-ins.

Additionally, showing your opponent what you still had in hand (aka, still had all deez) is extremely rude.

Some of us like discussing these kinds of details post-game. I've had a large number of such pleasant conversations.

Again, fuck off.

This was a bad article and you should feel bad for writing it.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

So did people actually read this article or did they just compliment it because they want Magic players to bathe more frequently?

[xfxf]

I think the failure of the article comes from the fact that somewhere along the article (again I'm too lazy to find an cite) he mentions that it's wrong to try to impose our own sense of sportmanship and gaming ethics (something along these lines) to others but the whole article is his own view of gaming ethics and sportsmanship.

I think the universal rules that everyone can agree on are only related to hygenie, taking phone calls, threating other people's cards carefully and being a "reasonably nice guy" in the very gray area of verbal communications.

[Koby]

they want Magic players to bathe more frequently?

I think this should be mentioned everywhere, anytime. I read the article however, saw that Broverturf wrote it, then decided he's just being a troll again. Some good points were made, but it was lost in a wash of arrogance.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Overturf comes off really whiny in the article. Delivery wasn't effective.

[Jenni]

So did people actually read this article or did they just compliment it because they want Magic players to bathe more frequently?

I read it, a lot of the things listed are minor annoyances... yeah it's a little annoying if your opponent wastes time because they're really bad/slow at shuffling, or if it takes them a long time to make a play when you think it should be an easy ecision to make, whatever... It's not really a big deal and I think the article is just taking little stuff like that too seriously.

The riffle shuffling an oppnent's deck one I can relate too, since I honestly hate when my cards get bent or warped, I am very careful to keep my cards in good shape, I've still got a lot of cards from as far back as the original mirrodin set (when I first started playing) that barely look like they've seen play, despite being used in several decks over the years. So little things like that, which can damage or warp my cards, do bother me quite a lot.
Having a very negative attitude about your opponent or how the match went is very obnoxious as well. If you want to comment about how you misplayed or something, fine, but unsoliceted advice, or making excuses about why you lost is really annoying to me.

As for hygene... I honestly wouldn't mind if people showered and washed a bit more, but that seems more like general ettiquette than something related specifically to magic.

[kusumoto]

Don't be a dick.
Bathe.

You could have linked to a blank page that said just that and it would have been great.

[Justin]

Other than "belittling your opponent," I pretty much disagree with the author on every point. The author is way too hypersensitive and seems to be bothered by little things that the vast majority of players would not find offensive.

Here's some advice for Magic and life in general. Be more sensitive toward others and less sensitive about yourself. Don't sweat the small stuff. Don't take yourself too seriously. Just try and have fun and you'll do fine.

[dahcmai]

Had a friend of mine say to an opponent quite rudely "Better Lucky than Good" after losing.



His opponent was a friend of mine also that the first did not know. Eric Taylor took it in stride. lol

[coraz86]

Eric Taylor took it in stride. lol

When I was a kid, I remember Eric Taylor making a questionable bet at Pro Tour: New Orleans--he stated to a Wizards reporter that he'd eat his hat if Kai Budde won the Tour (during the year Kai won three Tours, made the semifinals of another Tour, and made the top eight of some absurd number of Grand Prix). Though he demanded some unholy quantity of ketchup when the time came, he did in fact pay up.

Just so people know Eric "Danger" Taylor is a BAMF.

[Snap_Keep]

Wow... What in the world was that post for InfamousBearAssassin? So negative!

Also it's amazing to see how angry it got you considering how much you were swearing.

I liked it, I thought it was a fun read.

[Hardcore]

Anyone that smell that much is almost always a drop-out from society, with some serious mental problems. Since it hard to see how this could apply to magic players i think of it as unsportmanly conduct. IE a form of cheating.

[evanmartyr]

Wow... What in the world was that post for InfamousBearAssassin? So negative!

Also it's amazing to see how angry it got you considering how much you were swearing.

I liked it, I thought it was a fun read.

He got angry because we have 4-ish pages of commentary about the article, and it was poorly written, poorly thought-out, and annoying.

Really...you felt the time to use whatever soapbox you have for being an internet writer guy to complain about people accidentally rotating your deck 180 degrees when cutting/shuffling? Really?

Really?

I heartily second IBA's comments.

The whole thing could have been just:

"1: Don't slow-play. 2: Be considerate of other peoples' feelings. 3: I'm a tournament savvy guy who gets frustrated with people who aren't on the same wavelength as me, which is ironic given suggestion number 2."

[Gui]

I like when the opponent "still-had-all-deez"es me on G1. I can scout his hand and understand his play priority all in one single stupid act. :D

I disagree that playing even when game is lost is wrong, at least G1 & G2, because I can still grab info from these.

All the rest of the article makes perfect sense to me. Would be great if people were less arrogant.