Question about the Reserved List

[Lord Seth]

I was talking about the Reserved List with someone, and they said that Wizards of the Coast wouldn't abolish the reserved list because that would actually be against some English law and they'd probably get in a lot of trouble for it. They didn't go into much detail about it (I think they said the law somehow prohibited breaking a promise that could affect market price or something like that), but I'm curious as to whether this is actually true or not. Anyone know?

[mcfarland]

Someone else might correct me, but as far as I understand, the Reserved List doesn't actually hold any legal weight.

[cdr]

Wizards of the Coast decided a few years ago that there was in fact potential legal exposure with dumping the reserved list. They were on the verge of abolishing it and pulled an abrupt about face after a meeting, Rumor is that certain stores/collectors threatened a lawsuit.

The reserved list is now set in stone, it's never going away. Wizards is 100% committed to keeping it. The formation of Modern was a direct result of this.

[the Thin White Duke]

Wizards of the Coast decided a few years ago that there was in fact potential legal exposure with dumping the reserved list. They were on the verge of abolishing it and pulled an abrupt about face after a meeting, Rumor is that certain stores/collectors threatened a lawsuit.


If that's the case then there should be some kind of fundraiser to raise legal fees for Wizards if the abolish the list and get sued. How a bout a Source Bake Sale?

[Hardcore]

What IS the reserve list?

[DrJones]

Wizards of the Coast decided a few years ago that there was in fact potential legal exposure with dumping the reserved list. They were on the verge of abolishing it and pulled an abrupt about face after a meeting, Rumor is that certain stores/collectors threatened a lawsuit.

The reserved list is now set in stone, it's never going away. Wizards is 100% committed to keeping it. The formation of Modern was a direct result of this.Wizards of the Coast decided it was against the company's interests to abolish the reserved list. No official statement has been said about potential legal exposure, and if that were true, WotC wouldn't have had any reason to change the policy that allowed them to print cards in the reserved list as judge promos.

[cdr]

Wizards of the Coast decided it was against the company's interests to abolish the reserved list. No official statement has been said about potential legal exposure, and if that were true, WotC wouldn't have had any reason to change the policy that allowed them to print cards in the reserved list as judge promos.

The decision was either at an executive or legal level. Most of R&D was against keeping the reserved list by all accounts, and Aaron Forsythe in particular has been very vocal about his dislike of the decision. The community comittee WotC put together that included Ben Bleiweiss was also for abolisihing it. The only conclusion that fits the known facts is that the heart of Wizards of the Coast - R&D - was overruled by outside forces, whatever those may have been.

[Julian23]

I remember MaRo and Aaron Forsythe twittering about how they disliked the reserved list without actually mentioning it. Something about decisions affecting a company that were made long before most of its employes were present.

[Linqed]

You ever took into account everyone who's gonna get screwed over, royally, when they abolish the reserved list? I have quite a lot of duals that would drop so much in value. Not to speak of other expensive reserved cards I own. And what do you think about dealers? They invested in a stock of duals, thinking it will retain value because they wont ever be reprinted.
Wizards would screw everyone who has invested in Magic and make them lose faith in investing in Magic. They might sell a bunch of product, but that probably won't compensate the loss of faith in the product by those hurt by the big decrease in value of their stock/collection.

If you wanna play legacy, you need to invest, accept that or don't play legacy. These communists are getting pretty annoying. Magic is a non-mandatory hobby, you don't HAVE to play it to survive.

[nedleeds]

It's a policy. Not a contract. McDonalds has a policy requiring patrons to wear shirts and shoes. Chick Fil A is not open on Sunday. They could amend the policy at anytime.

People can also bring suit against companies and other people for all kinds of banal reasons. Doesn't mean some huge retailer wouldn't try to sue WotC ... but being the retailer that sued WotC means you probably won't be in the Magic business much longer anyway.

Also, reprints haven't been shown to significantly affect the price of actual good cards over the long haul. Chronicles/4th was a different animal -- at the time the games distribution and set collation was scattershot. The game also had no well defined format other than type 1. A card like Carrion Ants was actually a $60-80 card that was traded for type 1 staples. Nevermind that Carrion Ants was never a serious tourney card, 99% of the magic being played was kitchen table. Also some stores didn't even get any legends.

Edit:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/18888_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Visiting_Wizards_Reprints_and_the_Reserved_List.html

[Kich867]

You ever took into account everyone who's gonna get screwed over, royally, when they abolish the reserved list? I have quite a lot of duals that would drop so much in value. Not to speak of other expensive reserved cards I own. And what do you think about dealers? They invested in a stock of duals, thinking it will retain value because they wont ever be reprinted.
Wizards would screw everyone who has invested in Magic and make them lose faith in investing in Magic. They might sell a bunch of product, but that probably won't compensate the loss of faith in the product by those hurt by the big decrease in value of their stock/collection.

If you wanna play legacy, you need to invest, accept that or don't play legacy. These communists are getting pretty annoying. Magic is a non-mandatory hobby, you don't HAVE to play it to survive.

As was just pointed out, the reserved list has virtually no impact on the prices of cards. The price of cards has increased dramatically since it was enacted strictly based on speculation and popularity. There is no shortage of duals to go around, you can buy a playset of any set of duals at any point in time whenever you want. They aren't particularly rare.

The cards that are particularly rare are expensive due to rarity, the card itself is fairly irrelevant, it's rare because it is literally a rare card from a rare set. Reprinting the moxes won't make Alpha and Beta moxen less expensive, they're already backed up by the fact that there are very few of them left.

At this point the magic market is completely bound to third party speculative prices, the actual use of the card is pretty irrelevant in most cases. I mean look at Scroll Rack. Prior to miracles that card was something like $6.00, it shot up to $40.00, and has since gone down to $30.00 months after no one has put them into a deck.

The shit people actually care about being on the reserved list, the expensive cards that are actually worth a ton of money, will still be worth a ton of money because they're rare--people who want to collect have nothing to worry about and people who want to play will get to buy the things they need at a slightly lower price.

I mean do you really think duals will drop below $20.00 if they got reprinted? Can I point you to any fucking card that's worth anything in standard right now? Does anyone actually think that Bonfire of the Damned will be more expensive than the best lands ever made and will ever be made? They'll be around the same price based strictly on worth and their initial price will be based entirely on their previous price.

[nedleeds]

I mean do you really think duals will drop below $20.00 if they got reprinted? Can I point you to any fucking card that's worth anything in standard right now? Does anyone actually think that Bonfire of the Damned will be more expensive than the best lands ever made and will ever be made? They'll be around the same price based strictly on worth and their initial price will be based entirely on their previous price.

Agree on all points ... but worth repeating is the concept that players being butt hurt from a card dropping in price will kill the game. If that were true the game should be dead a hundred times over from things like Baneslayer that fluctuate from $80 to $8. For every card that might dip slightly (temporarily) there are examples of cards that went up after a reprint like Reflecting Pool, Savannah Lions, etc. I think as long as the reprints were new bordered new art jank it would only strengthen the format (legacy, vintage) which only enhances the value of the original cards over the long term.

I own basically fucking everything (not insane make your own market shit like summer and test prints) and I have no problem with the reserved list coming down. It preserves the future of eternal formats which is by far the best thing for the 'value' of my stuff.

[Nihil Credo]

Question was answered, the rest of the debate has been had a thousand times already.