View Full Version : [Primer] RGBelcher - unpowered, budgeted

08-15-2012, 12:26 PM
Hi everybody! I'm an italian legacy player trying to start playing Vintage. Main problem for me are $$$, as you can imagine; that's why i decided to play not only unpowered but also budget.
First of all, i don't like loosing... (this could be a problem if you ain't got money to buy P9, i know) so i was searching a deck budgeted and that could play against the field. Let's see what the metagame propose:
1. U based control (P9, library, dual, etc.)
2. MUD (workshop, unplayable without them)
3. Dredge (bazaar, unplayable without them)
4. Oath (P9, dual etc.)
5. Haters.deck (wasteland, dual)
6. TES (dual)

The deck that seems closer to my budget idea is storm (monoblack? dday?), but here is almost dead because the MUD and Hatebears.deck proliferation. So last option is going rogue... storming rogue!
Now I had to choose wich build/engine run; after thinking on 'why is storm dead in vintage?' I realize that MUD and Hatebears.deck don't play counterspells so the metagame in my mind became:
- Decks that let you play freely in your first turn
- Decks that run force of will
...and wait! I play also in legacy with a similar concept because I also play Belcher!!
So why not to transport Belcher in Vintage? Yes I know that's a lot better with P9 but it's good also budget.
Let's start from what we lose in Vintage: LED, Burning wish and lotus petal are restricted; but we gain something very good Channel, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Memory Jar and Wheel of Fortune.

I started with -4 Burning Wish -3 LED -3 Lotus Petal, +1 Channel +1 Mana Vault +1 Sol Ring +1 Empty the Warrens
-no Mana Crypt 'cause it's too expensive
-no draw7 (nor restricted nor Reforge the Souls) 'cause I don't want that my opponent draws a counter

Legacy Belcher consist of 11 closers, 4 cyclers and 45 mana sources = 19,6% closers + 80,4% mana
I got to reach a similar 'consistency' in particular with the closers, that's why I add the 4th Empty the Warrens and a 2 Storm Entity (the alternative was adding black to manabase and run Tendrils but it makes the deck too inconsistent) and 8 additional cyclers (Manamorphose and Street Wraith) so my list became 10 closers, 12 cyclers and 38 mana sources = 20,8% closers + 79,2% mana

About mana sources, I wanted to minimize the impact of free-first-turn-counters aka Mental Misstep that's why i cut 4 Tinder Wall to play the Chancellor of the Tangle; I had to cut 4 other cards to gains space for the restricted cards and I chose to cut 4 Seething Songs because they're too counter-attractive as i saw in Legacy.

So my actual 'still testing' decklist is:

4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Empty the Warrens
2 Storm Entity
1 Stomping Ground (no reason to run it instead Taiga, i'm just a poor boy ;D )
4 Land Grant
4 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Chancellor of the Tangle
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Channel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Rite of Flame
4 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
--------------------- 60 cards

About Sideboard:
I wanted something redundant like: 8 slots vs. counter, 4 slots vs. dredge and 3 slots vs. mud. So I'm testing:

4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ingot Chewer
4 Autumn Veil
4 Chancellor of the Annex

- Vs.Oath: -4 wraith -4 morphose -4 probe, +4 veil +4 crypt +4 chancellor W
- Vs.MUD: -3 wraith, +3 chewer
- Vs.Hatebears.deck: -3 wraith, +3 chewer
- Vs.Storm: -4 wraith, +4 chancellor W
- Vs.U based control: -4 wraith -4 morphose, +4 chancellor W +4 veil
- Vs.Dredge: -4 wraith, +4 crypt

Still not sure about some choises:
- 3x or 4x Chrome Mox? seeing 2 of them in starting 7 is like double mulligan...
- Is Chancellor of the Tangle really effective? also with just 3 Chrome Mox?
- Replacing the Pyretic Rituals with Tinder Wall? sure tinder can be countered by misstep but permanent mana in some case can win a game...
- How about running 4 Living Wish to gain a small toolbox in sideboard? it could tutor Storm Entity, Xantid Swarm, Goblin Welder, Ingot Chewer, etc...
- Tormod's Crypt (cc0) or Grafdigger's Cage (cc1 but stops also oath)?
- Autumn Veil (protects tokens from echoing truths) or Guttural Response (can be casted both R/G)?
- Chancellor of the Annex or Carpet of Flowers to storming on 3rd/4th turn evading Spell Pierce, etc?

What you think?

Thank you for reading! Hope you liked this primer!

(nameless one)
08-15-2012, 12:48 PM
What about Wheel of Fortune for draw? It also not that bad money-wise.

08-15-2012, 01:29 PM
What about Wheel of Fortune for draw? It also not that bad money-wise.

i've tested already with -2 street wraith -2 storm entity +1 wheel fortune +1 memory jar +2 reforge the soul and it's totally not good making U deck draw another hand ... they have the 40% to get force of will in starting 7, making them draw will just raise that percentage.
Tried for bit, stormed 15 times with draw7s (12 against force of will):
7/12 lost because they drew force and played it on decisive spell
2/12 fizzled
3/12 won

that's why i cut draw7s...

08-15-2012, 03:51 PM
Goblin Welder is very good in this kind of deck, and allows you to have some game after your spells are fizzled. The trouble is that you need a few more artifacts.

08-16-2012, 05:53 AM
I see your point, 7 artifacts (8 running memory jar) aren't enough to support welder maindeck... that's why I suggested to play it in wish toolbox...

in these days i'm testing with -2 storm entity -4 street wraith +4 living wish +1 mox opal and a toolbox consisting of:
1 xantid swarm
1 goblin welder
1 storm entity
1 strip mine
1 boseiju
1 bojuka
1 great furnace
1 chewer
+4 autumn veil
+4 grafdigger's cage

next week i'll give you updates on this build! :wink:

08-17-2012, 07:43 AM
No love for grim monolith? Budget issues? Otherwise I see no reasons to play manamorphose over it ;)

Also: mana crypt?

08-19-2012, 12:58 PM
No love for grim monolith? Budget issues? Otherwise I see no reasons to play manamorphose over it ;)

Also: mana crypt?

sure they'll be good but ain't got money 4 them right now :rolleyes:

John Cox
08-22-2012, 11:18 AM
I have just a couple suggestions,
First side probe or manamorphose out against shops before street wraith. cycling isn't a spell so it isn't effected by spheres. (I could be wrong about that)
I know draw sevens aren't working for you but I have had immense success with serum powder in legacy belcher. I've always felt that serum powder is best in high variance decks, where aggressively mulliganing helps more than anything else. In belcher we don't normally do this because of how important each card is in our opening hand. This is why serum powder is so great here.
I'd also recommend mental misstep over chancellor of the annex because it will probably do more of use. most blue deck will happily sacrifice a mox to completely ignore chancellor with misstep you going to counter something better. against ichorid you still hitting cabal therapy, but you also have the ability to stop claim or chain of vapor out of the side. workshops are uneffected by both CotA and MM