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View Full Version : Infest vs. jitte counters..



Tombstalker
08-18-2012, 06:51 PM
Scenario:
My opponent has ooze, hierarch, and teeg in play with an active jitte attached and one honor of the pure in play.

I accelerate into dread of night then burning wish into infest wiping the board except for teeg who uses a jitte counter to grow.

At the beginning of the end step both continuous effects wear off (jitte and infest) in APNAP order. What im hazy on is when the game state checks teegs P/T? Im thinking he dies immediately due to jittes buff resolving first, followed by teeg dying, followed by infest resolving. Is this correct or am I muffing something up?

Valtrix
08-18-2012, 07:12 PM
The following happens in the Cleanup Step,


514.2. Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects end. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack.

So, from this we have that Teeg doesn't die. There's nothing about APNAP order, things just happen. I think you have this confused with when things trigger at the same time, but "until end of turn" effects don't have any trigger when the cleanup step comes around, the effects just end. So with no triggers, there are no worries about any resolutions.

Also, I know there are some complicated rules, but from a design standpoint they wouldn't want to make the very common "until end of turn" effects so needlessly complicated and as un-intuitive as you suggest. I mean, if my buff lasts until end of turn and your debuff lasts until end of turn, there's no reason one should end "sooner" than the other and possibly put my creature in jeopardy.

Tombstalker
08-18-2012, 07:41 PM
Ah yes thank you, now that you point that out I feel stupid because I know this and ive had to relearn it multiple times. Things just got a little muddled thinking about continous effects. Thanks.