[Deck] U/R OmniTell

[Water_Wizard]

Show and tell (2U)
you put in omni
they put in oring
you cast trickbind (free)

Yes, this is a very good point and you beat me to it! I was in class thinking, and it dawned on me. Trickbind works great at stoping O-Ring, D-Sphere, Venser off of the Show and Telled Omniscience, but doesn't do much for a Show and Telled Grisel or Emrakul (unless you have 5 mana).

PNeedle is the way to stop Top.

Progenitus is the way to stop O-Ring, D-Sphere, Venser, Gilded Drake, etc.

[BiuBiu]

Enter the Infinite

Sorcery 8UUUU

Draw cards equal to the number of cards in your library, then put a card from your hand on top of your library. You have no maximum hand size until your next turn.

[xfxf]

When you already have Omniscience in play this is not different than casting a Burning Wish, which should end the game right there. If you don't have Omniscience in play this is not castable or cheatable into play.

[BiuBiu]

When you already have Omniscience in play this is not different than casting a Burning Wish, which should end the game right there. If you don't have Omniscience in play this is not castable or cheatable into play.

It's the best Burning Wish target if you can't go for the Petals/Grapeshot-kill.

[xfxf]

Which conditions do you have in mind preventing you from the Burning Wish/Petals of Insight kill?

[BiuBiu]

Which conditions do you have in mind preventing you from the Burning Wish/Petals of Insight kill?

There are quite a few things. Some examples: Thalia, Teeg, Leyline of Sanctity...

[xfxf]

You can't beat Teeg with a 12cc spell. As for Thalia and Leyline, I think they are corner cases and this deck should beat them with Griselbrand or Emrakul.

[Atog]

Played today this deck in 10-15 person tournament, 4 rounds anyway. Games were these:

R1: NicFit, get three dudes with Burning Wish -> Pyroclasm (2x shamans and eternal witness) then found omni and played emrakul and friends. 2nd game, Cage was winner here too, opponent draw several GSZ during game and i find what i needed again.
R2: Dredge. Found combo pieces fast enought and played 2nd turn Cage which weren't answered soon enought.
R3: Dredge, or some kind of (played green?) Same as above, 2nd game turn two emrakul off omniscience were enought.
R4: Enchantress, back and forth game, opponent said he misplayed that paid him a game but dunno about that.

Top8:

Quarters: Played against that R3 opponent and win in two games, had 2nd turn show -> omni if i remember corretly.
Semis: Enchantress from round 4 and i failed to win. 1st game i guess he comboed with RiP and Helm with Shushers support and 2nd game i mulled to 5 and keeped no lander hand with petal, brainstorm, personal tutor and something. Weren't happy to go to four cards so keeped a bad hand. Brainstorm off petal showed fetch and petal so guess i feeled lucky? Althought didn't draw third land during game and find only b.wish and personal tutor but no dude or omni so i lost that one.

Played this Urb version with slight splash of 3 thoughseizes in main and one in SB + virtue's ruin in sb. I really don't know if they are worth it, happened several times during games that i have one fetch and burning wish and thoughseize in hand and some cantrip. If you have omni or fatty in hand you obvious go fetch volcanic but then you have dead card in hand so i maybe go back to UR and be happy with that setup :)

ps. had little bad luck by my side when played in semis against enchantress, played thoughtseize on turn2, saw nothing intresting, played next turn show and tell and opponent showed Detention sphere, tell me about bad luck.

[BiuBiu]

You can't beat Teeg with a 12cc spell. As for Thalia and Leyline, I think they are corner cases and this deck should beat them with Griselbrand or Emrakul.

Ok, Teeg was a bad example. There are some other corner cases as well, but maybe you're right. Time of Need and Living Wish can be cast without Omniscience in play (if you have green mana). But being able to draw and cast the whole library just screems "play me!", since you get Emrakul AND Griselbrand, wich attack for lethal 22 damage in the extra turn (and Jace to bounce 2 creatures, if annihilator 6 won't be enough). Plus you get all the counters... for free. You could also cast several Emrakuls to get even more extra turns and shuffle your graveyard into your library... Maybe it's overkill, but it looks like fun, so I definately will try out.

[phazonmutant]

[...] being able to draw and cast the whole library just screems "play me!", since you get Emrakul AND Griselbrand, wich attack for lethal 22 damage in the extra turn (and Jace to bounce 2 creatures, if annihilator 6 won't be enough). Plus you get all the counters... for free. You could also cast several Emrakuls to get even more extra turns and shuffle your graveyard into your library... Maybe it's overkill, but it looks like fun, so I definately will try out.

I think you're right that Enter the Infinite is good, but you need to take that scenario further. So in what way could it possibly upgrade the deck? The only way I can think of is freeing up a sideboard slot. So the way it works is this:
Against Teeg or Thalia, you find Time of Need, that's why we run it.
Against Humility, Ensnaring Bridge, Blazing Archon, etc, we have to go for a storm kill or bounce the permanent. With this new card, we can cut Grapeshot and exclusively go for recurring Eye of Nowhere. So find EtI, draw deck, play Emrakul. If Eye of Nowhere hasn't been used, bounce a troublesome permanent. If it has or there's multiple, take the first extra turn. We don't have to discard because of EtI. Second turn, play another Emrakul, shuffle both and graveyard in. Almost always, our deck should be small enough to find the Eye again given the DI cantrips in hand. If they still have permanents to bounce, we can try to dig to both Emrakuls to reshuffle our hand that we discarded at eot and try to find the Eye again.

So it's not a guaranteed kill, but only in the situation where your opponent has multiple ways to stop large scary men from attacking. Otherwise it's easily 21, more than likely you can get plenty of extra turns to swing in the air for a bunch.

The long and short of it: play Enter the Infinite over Petals of Insight and a storm kill, add more sb slots, win.

[Achamian]

What do you guys think we need to cut for a black splash with 4 Thoughtseize main?

I am playing this deck since GP Ghent and I'm very, very happy with it so far, since I'm getting quite good results with it. Went 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd at my last 4 local tournaments, for example.

Currently playing this list:

2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
2 City of Traitors
1 Tropical Island
1 Polluted Delta

3 Show and Tell
4 Burning Wish
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand
3 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Preordain
4 Omniscience
4 Ponder
1 Overmaster
2 Flusterstorm
2 Intuition

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Time of Need
1 Grapeshot
1 Show and Tell
1 Petals of Insight
1 Pyroclasm
1 Overmaster

Right now I really want to try out a black splash for 4 Thouhtseize main, because it really sucks losing to 1-Off Oblivion Rings out of my opponents sideboard. Happened twice the last 2 tournaments and were my only losses.

I think cutting a Mountain and a Tropical Island for 2 Underground Sea is an easy choice. As well as cutting a Defense Grid in my sideboard for Eye of Nowhere, to get an additional out for O-Ring.

I am not so sure what to cut for 4 Thoughtseize, though. The lonely mainboard Overmaster gets a cut, that's for sure. Aside from that, I really don't know what to cut. Don't want to cut any cantrips, since we really need them for our 3-card-combo. Pretty much leaves the choices to either Daze or Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce. Right now, I guess I'm taking out 3 Daze.

What do you guys think?

[Rekk]

What do you guys think we need to cut for a black splash with 4 Thoughtseize main?

I am playing this deck since GP Ghent and I'm very, very happy with it so far, since I'm getting quite good results with it. Went 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd at my last 4 local tournaments, for example.

Currently playing this list:

2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
2 City of Traitors
1 Tropical Island
1 Polluted Delta

3 Show and Tell
4 Burning Wish
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand
3 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Preordain
4 Omniscience
4 Ponder
1 Overmaster
2 Flusterstorm
2 Intuition

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Time of Need
1 Grapeshot
1 Show and Tell
1 Petals of Insight
1 Pyroclasm
1 Overmaster

Right now I really want to try out a black splash for 4 Thouhtseize main, because it really sucks losing to 1-Off Oblivion Rings out of my opponents sideboard. Happened twice the last 2 tournaments and were my only losses.

I think cutting a Mountain and a Tropical Island for 2 Underground Sea is an easy choice. As well as cutting a Defense Grid in my sideboard for Eye of Nowhere, to get an additional out for O-Ring.

I am not so sure what to cut for 4 Thoughtseize, though. The lonely mainboard Overmaster gets a cut, that's for sure. Aside from that, I really don't know what to cut. Don't want to cut any cantrips, since we really need them for our 3-card-combo. Pretty much leaves the choices to either Daze or Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce. Right now, I guess I'm taking out 3 Daze.

What do you guys think?

you can take out the two flusterstorms and the overmaster for 3 thoughtseizes and one in the board. or you could try stifle / trickbind in the board

[BiuBiu]

With Omniscience + EtI it's also possible to make an infinite storm count: If you cast the second Emrakul and shuffle the graveyard back into your library, you can just use the cantrips (+personal tutor) to find EtI again and repeat.

[PhillyP]

With Omniscience + EtI it's also possible to make an infinite storm count: If you cast the second Emrakul and shuffle the graveyard back into your library, you can just use the cantrips (+personal tutor) to find EtI again and repeat.

I'm planning on replacing Petals + Grapeshot with Enter the Infinite and Spiraling Embers. It's much more straightforward than building up storm count and you'll have a handful of counters, emrakuls, and griselbrands if needed. It's better at getting around a Thalia. Seems like less can go wrong. Thoughts?

[Rekk]

I'm planning on replacing Petals + Grapeshot with Enter the Infinite and Spiraling Embers. It's much more straightforward than building up storm count and you'll have a handful of counters, emrakuls, and griselbrands if needed. It's better at getting around a Thalia. Seems like less can go wrong. Thoughts?

the nice part about petals is its not unreasonable to burning wish for petals and just hardcast it. also the grapeshot can in theory kill hatebears and such (i've never done this even when playing tes)

[Rekk]

Got 4th last weekend in a 4 round legacy event (17 people)
with
1 jace
1 intuition
2 sneak
3 gris
3 em
3 omni
3 daze
3 show and tell
3 preordain
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 burning wish
4 force of will
3 lotus petals
3 volcanic islands
2 islands
1 mountain
3 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors (-1 of these for an island)
4 scalding
4 deltas

board
3 stifle
2 surgical (could be cage, im really debating what is better against dredge cage can stop them dead but i wonder if surgicaling therapy and racing is the way to go, this way they can't interact with their board (claims and such).
1 shattering spree (i think this should be cut for another surgical, you are rarely ever going to wish for this, its a hold over as a way to beat a ensnaring bridge plus burning wish for these effects are so rarely used)
3 pyroblasts
1 time of need
1 grapeshot
1 petals of insight
1 pyroclasm
1 overmaster
1 show and tell
(oh wish boards i'll quit you one day)
round one U/w cb stoneforge 2-0
mull to 6 lost die roll
(1)he had a counterbalance in play and know 3's go go gris
mull to 6
(2) he scooped pretty early to a gris or an omni or something i don't remember.

dazes out in pyroblasts. he makes toooo many land drops and i was on the draw.
round 2 junk 2-1 lost die roll
mull to 6
(1) redundancy beats his discard and he dies to a sneak attack
mull to 6
(2) my landdds where are they, he wastes and vindicates me annnnnd i die.
(3) i cast a show and tell with petal open, he smiles and puts in his card i put in gris and stifle his oring trigger

I boarded out intuition and 2 force of wills which was realllly akward when i use gris and can't save him, but i figured i don't want to force things against his deck, it could have been wrong since you want to stop knight, although i figured the stifles are one mana forces and that if gris gets swords and i draw 7 ill win anyway.
round 3 rug lost die roll 0-2
good guy with a reallly bad habit of eot brainstorm on turn one. Please for anyone reading this, respect brainstorm more then this.
(1) waste waste then threat
mull
(2) i die to a delver =(
boarded out jace, 1 force, 1 petal
for pyros, i thought about stifles to screw his mana but it was ultimately decided to be too cute.
round 4 burn lost die roll 2-0
poor poor poor burn player
mull to 6
(1) his turn one, mountain grim lavamancer. mine petal petal land show emrakul, he puts in the 2 drop with fading counters. plays it like a champ doesn't scoop and lets me attack.
(2) kill him on turn two, this time he scoops to the emmie

no board for mono red, although i guess pyroclasm can come in

So now a message,
I really do think this deck is incredibly powerful, the island over the city is to lower the mulligan rate. i had alot of double sol-land hands and (as noted above alot of mulligan)
This deck has a draw 7 in it and multiple (9, 10 if you count jace, must answer threats) so it makes up for the initial card disadvantage by having compact combos, don't be shy to mulligan.

[randomly.anonymous]

Would Enter the Infinite replace the current win-cons?
For the record:

Enter the Infinite
8UUUU
Sorcery
Draw cards equal to the number of cards in your library, then put a card from your hand on top of your library. You have no maximum hand size until your next turn
"Don't just hbe an idea - have them all."
-Niv-Mizzet

[Rekk]

Would Enter the Infinite replace the current win-cons?
For the record:

Enter the Infinite
8UUUU
Sorcery
Draw cards equal to the number of cards in your library, then put a card from your hand on top of your library. You have no maximum hand size until your next turn
"Don't just hbe an idea - have them all."
-Niv-Mizzet

that was asked previously, on the same page in which you posted this. and my response is still no. its way to much of a win more card, its only castable off of omniscience thus offers less then petals of insight in function.

[Final Fortune]

that was asked previously, on the same page in which you posted this. and my response is still no. its way to much of a win more card, its only castable off of omniscience thus offers less then petals of insight in function.

Not necessarily, it offers a mana efficient win condition thru' Thalia without having to devote to a Time of Need in the SB, so even tho' it's less functional than Petals of Insight in and of itself it opens another space in the SB for something more relevant.

[Rekk]

Not necessarily, it offers a mana efficient win condition thru' Thalia without having to devote to a Time of Need in the SB, so even tho' it's less functional than Petals of Insight in and of itself it opens another space in the SB for something more relevant.

thalia isn't a problem in this situation because of the time of need though (burning wish (1 mana) time of need (1) creature) vs (burning wish (1) draw a million spell(1) emrakul (discard the other emrakuls or you deck if they are above 15) . I would rather have the ability to play a really bad draw three.

[PhillyP]

that was asked previously, on the same page in which you posted this. and my response is still no. its way to much of a win more card, its only castable off of omniscience thus offers less then petals of insight in function.

I'm still not convinced... How often do you need to use a burning wish to get a Petals of insight to hardcast? I haven't played this deck much so I don't really have a grasp for this but it just doesn't seem like a good option.

Enter the Infinite essentially gives you all of your win conditions at once with all of your counters to back them up. I can see how it could be deemed overkill. But it also seems like you can get around anything with this whereas Petals+Grapeshot kill has ways of being stopped (i.e. flusterstorm, thalia).

I'll probably try it if not just for the style points :)

Also, thanks for the writeup and congrats on your top4. That must have felt good stifling the o-ring!

[PhillyP]

thalia isn't a problem in this situation because of the time of need though (burning wish (1 mana) time of need (1) creature) vs (burning wish (1) draw a million spell(1) emrakul (discard the other emrakuls or you deck if they are above 15) . I would rather have the ability to play a really bad draw three.

You aren't going to run out of cards...you will have every counter in your library available to stop anything that would make you draw...also if you somehow can't win on that turn you have one card in your library to draw the next turn...and then if you somehow don't win that turn you will discard down to 7 EOT and as long as you discard an emrakul you will be back to a normal library and a 7 card hand of your choice.

[Rekk]

You aren't going to run out of cards...you will have every counter in your library available to stop anything that would make you draw...also if you somehow can't win on that turn you have one card in your library to draw the next turn...and then if you somehow don't win that turn you will discard down to 7 EOT and as long as you discard an emrakul you will be back to a normal library and a 7 card hand of your choice.

(discard the other emrakuls or you deck if they are above 15)

what were you getting at? i said that you just discard emrakuls.

the issue with the card is that its flashy and in no way is better then the options we already have. the point i was making with petals is AT LEAST YOU CAN CAST IT. where as this flashy 12 mana spell in the current builds isn't worth it.

also if you are playing this then the only win conditions it gives you are emrakul and griss or what ever other spell you put in your board to replace the grapeshot.

[PhillyP]

(discard the other emrakuls or you deck if they are above 15)

what were you getting at? i said that you just discard emrakuls.

the issue with the card is that its flashy and in no way is better then the options we already have. the point i was making with petals is AT LEAST YOU CAN CAST IT. where as this flashy 12 mana spell in the current builds isn't worth it.

also if you are playing this then the only win conditions it gives you are emrakul and griss or what ever other spell you put in your board to replace the grapeshot.

I don't understand how its no way better? You have your entire library in your hand. You have every option available to you... You can almost certainly stop any sort of counter your opponent may have. I don't see how you can lose.

However, I see ways to lose if you use a burning wish to get a time of need to get one creature...or using a burning wish to go for a petals+grapeshot finish.

In your example with your opponent having more than 15 life you mention burning wish->time of need->emrakul combo...which gets you one creature out...but with burning wish->ETI->you can try to play a spiraling embers (replacement for grapeshot) and end it right away and if that somehow doesn't work you play emrakul AND griselbrand and then swing for 22 the next turn... how is this not better?

As FinalFortune mentions as well, ETI could free up a SB slot because it effectively can serve the primary purpose of petals of insight, which is a combo piece for a "big direct damage finish" and it also gets all of your creatures into your hand so it replaces time of need.

[Rekk]

i can't help you. just do what you want i don't think its the correct way to build this deck.

Let me also point out that you don't need your entire library in your hand. What possible counter would they have if they let resolve show and tell....

this just doesn't make sense to me why you both think that this is the stronger card. my arguement is Why would you put these cards in the sideboard over the cheaper cards that you can cast.
you want to cut 3 spells in the board the time of need the grapeshot and the spire for the 12 mana, but what you gain in one sideboard slot is negated by how uncastable these cards are. yes it feels really bad to use a burning wish to get a time of need and hard cast it. but it just seems better to have castable wish targets.

[PhillyP]

i can't help you. just do what you want i don't think its the correct way to build this deck.
do me a favor build me a new sideboard with your spell please.

-Petals of Insight
-Time of Need
-Grapeshot

+Enter the Infinite
+Spiraling Embers
+that 3rd surgical extraction you want to put in your SB...you can leave your shattering spree in.

I'm not sure why you can't help me. We're all here to learn and improve. If you think that I'm incorrect in my build then you should be able to at least give me some examples why.

I'm also interested in hearing other people's opinions on this.

[PhillyP]

i can't help you. just do what you want i don't think its the correct way to build this deck.

Let me also point out that you don't need your entire library in your hand. What possible counter would they have if they let resolve show and tell....

this just doesn't make sense to me why you both think that this is the stronger card. my arguement is Why would you put these cards in the sideboard over the cheaper cards that you can cast.
you want to cut 3 spells in the board the time of need the grapeshot and the spire for the 12 mana, but what you gain in one sideboard slot is negated by how uncastable these cards are. yes it feels really bad to use a burning wish to get a time of need and hard cast it. but it just seems better to have castable wish targets.

So I take it you feel that once Omniscience is in play with a wish in hand then it's game over anyways. Playing ETI goes above and beyond what you need to do and your better off with castable wish targets for games that don't go as smooth. ok, I can buy that argument.

I personally still think the added benefit of replacing the "Petals/Grapeshot/Time of Need" with "ETI/Embers/extra SB slot" is greater than the lost benefit of being able to hardcast time of need/petals/grapeshot...but I admit I haven't tested it so I can definitely be wrong here.

[Rekk]

So I take it you feel that once Omniscience is in play with a wish in hand then it's game over anyways. Playing ETI goes above and beyond what you need to do and your better off with castable wish targets for games that don't go as smooth. ok, I can buy that argument.

I personally still think the added benefit of replacing the "Petals/Grapeshot/Time of Need" with "ETI/Embers/extra SB slot" is greater than the lost benefit of being able to hardcast time of need/petals/grapeshot...but I admit I haven't tested it so I can definitely be wrong here.

I can agree with this statement and also admit i havent tested it, it might be correct. if you have questions or want to test on cockatrice feel free to message me (all invited)

[phazonmutant]

I personally still think the added benefit of replacing the "Petals/Grapeshot/Time of Need" with "ETI/Embers/extra SB slot" is greater than the lost benefit of being able to hardcast time of need/petals/grapeshot...but I admit I haven't tested it so I can definitely be wrong here.

Guys, ETI does not replace Time of Need. There is one big reason to run Time of Need - Gaddock Teeg. The reason why this deck is better than Dream Halls or Hive Mind is because its kills attack from too many angles to stop, so throwing one away is stupid.
(The other reasons to run Time of Need are Thalia and Canonist, which ETI is essentially equivalent against.)

But I agree ETI saves you a valuable sideboard slot as long as you have Eye - you can just cut a dedicated kill card and rely on recurring Eye and battling with Emrakul. Rekk, why would you ever ever ever cast Petals? That's awful, and it's not even been close to coming up in the 25+ matches I've played with the deck. Wanting to cast Time of Need if you really need to S&T to not die is legitimate though.

[Rekk]

Guys, ETI does not replace Time of Need. There is one big reason to run Time of Need - Gaddock Teeg. The reason why this deck is better than Dream Halls or Hive Mind is because its kills attack from too many angles to stop, so throwing one away is stupid.
(The other reasons to run Time of Need are Thalia and Canonist, which ETI is essentially equivalent against.)

But I agree ETI saves you a valuable sideboard slot as long as you have Eye - you can just cut a dedicated kill card and rely on recurring Eye and battling with Emrakul. Rekk, why would you ever ever ever cast Petals? That's awful, and it's not even been close to coming up in the 25+ matches I've played with the deck. Wanting to cast Time of Need if you really need to S&T to not die is legitimate though.

welll hmmmmmm let me think times i have done that.

u/w miracles when you build up lands and have run out of gass you top deck burning wish draw 3.
same goes for heavy discard decks.
also i have cast petals without omni more then time of need.

a real question is why would you limit your thinking to
" Rekk, why would you ever ever ever cast Petals? That's awful"

why place restrictions on your options

sidenote
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-lsv-omniscience-legacy-event/

[BiuBiu]

short version: Imo EtI+Embers > Petals+Grapeshot, so I agree with PhillyP

long version:

advantages of EtI+Embers over Petals+Grapeshot:
+ with EtI you can either kill with direct damage OR with creatures (for example against Leyline...), so you have more and better options, because
+ you can get Emrakul AND Griselbrand, which attack for 22 in Emrakul's extra turn, or
+ you cast Spiraling Embers, which is better against Thalia, Flusterstorm, Canonist and other tax effects, plus
+ you have all your counters, wishes/sideboard wish targets, Jace...
+ you still have the other kill-variant in hand, if the first somehow went wrong,
+ you can have infinite turns, infinite EtIs, cast you deck infinite times..., you could even use Jace's ultimate...,
+ you have more answeres against several hate cards
+ you could even create a storm count with EtI instead of Petals
...
advantages of Petals+Grapeshot over EtI+Embers:
+ you can hardcast the two cards (which is rarely useful)
+ Grapeshot is harder to counter (but with EtI you have all the counters from your deck in hand to response, or Wish-Overmaster first)
+ you could kill creatures and do direct damage (which usually isn't necessary)
maybe I missed something?

about Teeg and Time of Need:
ToN is really better against Teeg, but there are other way to deal with him also.
A: Wish - ToN - S&T same turn: 4URG or in two turns: 2RG, 2U
(then you can S&T Emrakul and play around Teeg, but you need to run a Tropical and find it or save a lotus petal for it)
B: Wish - Pyroclasm - S&T same turn 4URR, or in two turns: 2RR, 2U
(you need another Wish. In two turns: they could possibly get another Teeg)
C: Wish - Eye - S&T: 3UUUR (even worse)
It seems like Teeg would be the only reason to run ToN, so I don't know if it's worth the green anymore. You could also just try to find a creature without Wish. Anyways, you don't have to cut ToN to play with EtI.

... just some thoughts

btw, I really like Stifle instead of black splash for Thoughtseize atm.

[phazonmutant]

u/w miracles when you build up lands and have run out of gass you top deck burning wish draw 3.
same goes for heavy discard decks.
also i have cast petals without omni more then time of need.
[...]
sidenote
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/channel-lsv-omniscience-legacy-event/

You're right, I was unfair in saying that it's never relevant. The way I prefer to play the deck, I don't want to throw away a good kill card if I find Omniscience, and also Miracles usually either doesn't have a clock or you have to Wish for Clasm to kill their Meddling Mage or Clique. I've personally only Wished for Petals once in all the dozens of games I've tested with my roommate (a devoted Miracles player), but it could come up.
That being said, I'd prefer to have another grave hate card or some other real sideboard card that I'd use much more frequently. If I weren't cutting the Grapeshot/Embers, I'd definitely play Petals over ETI.

I cut the trop a long time ago because, you're right, wishing for Time of Need happens so rarely.

Regarding the video - LSV was not playing that deck well. I was cringing.

BiuBiu -
yeah, mostly I was talking about using Time of Need to kill them immediately after dropping Omniscience. Letting Maverick untap with Omniscience on the board is usually bad news. The Trop is not worth hurting the mana. I still think you don't need Embers, you can "go infinite" with Eye of Nowhere on their hate and Emrakuls.

Doesn't Stifle just make the deck into like a 4-card combo? I can see how it would be a good answer if it's in hand, but Thoughtseize can deal with countermagic as well as O-rings/bounce/Angel. But I haven't tested it, so just theorizing.

[Rekk]

[QUOTE=

Doesn't Stifle just make the deck into like a 4-card combo? I can see how it would be a good answer if it's in hand, but Thoughtseize can deal with countermagic as well as O-rings/bounce/Angel. But I haven't tested it, so just theorizing.[/QUOTE]

thoughtseize basically acts the same way as the stifle but weakens the mana and makes you weak to a top in play. your never really casting thoughtseize before the turn your killing them

[BiuBiu]

BiuBiu -
yeah, mostly I was talking about using Time of Need to kill them immediately after dropping Omniscience. Letting Maverick untap with Omniscience on the board is usually bad news. The Trop is not worth hurting the mana. I still think you don't need Embers, you can "go infinite" with Eye of Nowhere on their hate and Emrakuls.

Doesn't Stifle just make the deck into like a 4-card combo? I can see how it would be a good answer if it's in hand, but Thoughtseize can deal with countermagic as well as O-rings/bounce/Angel. But I haven't tested it, so just theorizing.

With Omniscience in play EtI > ToN

I played with Thoughtseize al lot (!) and it's absolutely fantastic. A lot of advantages over Stifle. Downside is the blacksplash of course. With stifle, I only tested around 20 or 30 games so far, but I enjoy playing the U(r) Version at the moment, fetching basics most of the time, and Stifle does a good Job too. Against the O-rings/bounce/Angel you need it in hand, that's right, but you would also need Thoughtseize right before. With Toughtseize in the deck, I also didn't always wait until I could play it before S&T, especially in game 1. So this difference was less significant than I thought myself before. Dealing with countermagic is another plus of Thoughtseize, knowing opponents hand, plus it's "wishable". It can discard combo pieces, all kind of other threats and disrupt opponents strategy. But Stifle shouldn't be underestimated as well. I Stifled a lot of things, I wouldn't have thought about in the first place...
Btw I'm only testing Stifle instead of Trickbind, because it's one less mana to protect a S&T creature. After Omniscience, Trickbind would be even better of course.
maybe I will go back to Thoughtseize, still testing everything...

[Karhumies]

How many slots do you dedicate to wishboard? And what do you consider as auto-includes, and what are negotiable?

Here's my personal classification:

Auto-includes, in my opinion:
1x Show and Tell

Negotiable - tier 1
1x Eye of Nowhere (versatility!)
Alternative win condition with Omniscience
1x Petals of Insight
1x Grapeshot (Ensnaring Bridge, etc. - also clears out Teeg with storm = 2)

Negotiable - tier 2
1x Enter the Infinite - I see the optional storm kill as more valuable than saving 1 SB slot, personally
1x Time of Need - situational IMO; could be better served as a hate slot in some metas?
1x Pyroclasm / Infest / Damnation / Supreme Verdict / equivalent - situational vs creature decks (e.g. Goblins) to gain time; if we need to hit only 1 small target, Grapeshot should be sufficient IMO
1x Blatant Thievery to supplement the 1x bounce

Negotiable - tier 3
1x Thoughtseize - why SB rather than MD? Seems redundant as a wishboard target.
1x Overmaster - can take out 1 counter, but does not hit O-ring like Thoughtseize does
Xx Stronghold Gambit - very meta-dependent

Negotiable - tier 4
All others, including some notables:
Armageddon
Austere Command
Bribery
Insist
etc.

Trying to push down my wishboard to 6 cards leave room for other cards. Also, including MD Daze is difficult on the draw unless you have something non-wishboard, non-grave hate to side in to replace them with.

[Karhumies]

Also, I have not seen much discussion about using 1x Karakas in our own sideboard (4eak's SB list on page 2).

Trying to think about the advantages of including one:
- Legendary rule works in our favor, against the opponent (e.g. KotR fetching Karakas)
- With Omniscience in play, a Karakas can act as
a) StoP protection and vigilance for Griselbrand
b) unlimited extra turns with Emrakul
- Can bounce opposing Emrakul/Griselbrand before resolving ours to avoid Legendary rule
- Can bounce Gaddock Teeg
- Can bounce random creatures, e.g. vs. Reanimator

Downsides:
- Karakas takes 1 extra slot from SB
- Kind of requires using Living Wish rather than Time of Need
- Using Living Wish rather than Time of Need requires us to have at least 1 extra target at SB (supposedly Emrakul, since L.Wish/T.ofNeed requires green mana = we should have O.science already on the table)

-> -2 SB slots (minimum). The question is: Are these SB slots better spent in this way (Karakas + Emrakul) or otherwise (e.g. 2x Flusterstorm, Pyroclasm, Jace)?



I am kind of supposing that the likely "standard" sideboard setup most Omniscience lists have is:
6 Burning Wish board slots
4 Grave hate (or 3 + 1 flex slot)
3 REB / Pyroblast / Defense Grid
2 Flex slot (or extra B.Wish slots or extra REB / Defense grids) -> Karakas + Emrakul could be fit in here?

[Atog]

Played today in 12 person (?) tournament for five rounds magic. Finished 1st by 5-0 record. Played against Belcher, Bug-delver, death&taxes, burn and goblins. Deck performed well, one game lost to manascrew (drawed three lands during game, 1st&2nd land were colorless) i think i could mulligan that but hand was otherwise very good, just needing that one colored source. People weren't enought prepared to face combo, or atleast i didn't face almost any hate during tournament just dedicated for just this deck. Played set of white leylines in sideboard, boarded them in against BUG, belcher and burn so i think they deserved their slots easily, atleast when i did get them in opening hand without mulliganing for them 3/4 of matches.

Do you guys have any new tech for wishboard? Just waiting to get cast Enter the infinite :) I cutted Overmaster, since i never wished for that and shattering spree did get axed too, haven't faced a stax deck or any thorns or similar with this deck since i started to play this deck.

[catmint]

Did anyone think about carstens show&tell with enter the infinite?
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25560_Eternal-Europe-ndash-Gatecrash-At-The-Brewery.html

Monoblue might be more stable, altough I think a black splash for sideboard discard is worth it to fight opposing combo & "non-wasteland control". Also beeing able to win without casting show&tell seems like an advantage - might be also the reason why sneak attack was more successful the omniscience lately.

[dcosiem]

Hi, I started play this deck about a week ago. Here is my list. What do you guys think of it?

Spells
4 Griselbrand
4 Omniscience
3 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Burning Wish
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Lotus Petal
2 Overmaster
2 Personal Tutor
2 Spell Pierce

Lands
3 Polluted Delta
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Show and Tell
1 Petals of Insight
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Eye of Nowhere
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Trinkbind
1 Overmaster
1 Misdirection

[georgjorge]

I'm not sure why this thread is rather dead. I've recently started testing Omni-Tell instead of Sneak Show, and am not convinced that the Sneak Attack version is actually better overall, with each version having some advantages over the other.

Anyway, the deck took 10th at SCG Las Vegas (with two Sneak Show in Top Eight and another two in Top Sixteen):

2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand

4 Island
1 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island

2 Lotus Petal
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Burning Wish
1 Personal Tutor
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Show and Tell

Sideboard
4 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Eye of Nowhere
1 Overmaster
1 Show and Tell


I like that version, though I personally don't find Spell Pierce to be all that hot (I'm playing two), I can't see myself playing four unless I know the field is full of discard.

Also, I don't know how necessary the Petals + Sol lands are for this version of the deck. I can totally see them in Sneak Show, as Sneak Attack is rather expensive, but with Burning Wish in its place I find that cutting down on them works as well. While second turn Show and Tell is nice, is it better than having more consistency through additional cantrips and/or additional protection? Especially as against most decks there's not much difference between turn two and turn three Show and Tell.

Finally, I'm torn between Eye of Nowhere and Turbulent Dreams in the side. There are a few situations where bouncing more than one permanent is crucial, mostly when you Show in Griselbrand and need to race at a low life total (Goblins, Merfolk, Tempo Thresh etc).

[magical-yata]

I played that version of the deck at a tournament recently and totally agreed about Spell Pierce. It was often very underwhelming. Most of the time I lacked the mana to play it due to playing Ponder/Preordain turn 1. I think maybe 4 Daze or a 2 Misdirection/2 Daze mix might just be better. I didn't like the mana base a lot either. I don't think 4 Ancient Tombs is the best idea. I like the more traditional 3 Tombs/2 City of Traitors split and I'm gonna try 1 more Volcanic Island instead of the 4th Island.

Regarding his sideboard. It does lack the Petals of Insight/Grapeshot alternate kill which really only comes into play against Ensnaring Bridge and other things that prevent you from attacking. You do have Enter the Infinite which can go get Eye of Nowhere via Burning Wish to still win through an Ensnaring Bridge so the lack of the Petals/Grapeshot might not be that big a deal.

[georgjorge]

Yea, I don't think Petals/Grapeshot is necessary anymore after Enter the Infinite. Maybe one Time of Need against Gaddock Teeg but then it's only one card right?

I also realized while testing that first turn Mother of Runes + second turn Meddling Mage on Show is game against us if we don't have the Force (and often the Mage alone will be enough since it now requires five mana to go off with Eye of Nowhere + Show, making us suspectible to all kinds of taxing counters). Granted, Mage isn't really played much but it was a bit worrying to lose so easily.

[magical-yata]

Yea, I don't think Petals/Grapeshot is necessary anymore after Enter the Infinite. Maybe one Time of Need against Gaddock Teeg but then it's only one card right?

I also realized while testing that first turn Mother of Runes + second turn Meddling Mage on Show is game against us if we don't have the Force (and often the Mage alone will be enough since it now requires five mana to go off with Eye of Nowhere + Show, making us suspectible to all kinds of taxing counters). Granted, Mage isn't really played much but it was a bit worrying to lose so easily.

That's such an incredibly narrow play that I don't think that should be anywhere near the top of the decks worries. I'm more concerned that the decks combo takes too long to set up compared to Sneak and Show. I'm not sure if this decks advantages are worth the speed and resiliency we are sacrificing compared to Sneak and Show.

[downtoonelife]

I played this deck for the first time last week with 80 players joining the tournament. I went 3-3 drop, not a good result but I'd like to share my comments on the deck with my match-ups.

Round 1: MBC (2-0) My opponent played first. On turn 2 he cast Hymn to Tourach, lucky for me I have my single Misdirection and misdirected it to him. On my third turn I won via Petals-Tendrils storm. On our second game, I Burning Wish for Show and Tell on my turn 2. On his 3rd turn he IoK me which I Misdirected to him. On my 3rd turn I won via Omni-Emrakul. Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain really helps with the consistency of this deck. Free counters are also best, my mvp on this match was 1 Misdirection (4 FoW, 1 MisD, 4 Daze, 2 Flusterstorm and 1 in Sb). If i'm going to play this deck again I'll add another MisD.

Round 2: UW Stoneblade (2-0) I played first. On his second turn, he played SFM, 3rd turn played Karakas. On my 4th turn he V Clique me which I FoWed and casted SnT-Omni-Griselbrand, he let me draw 14, played Emrakul and he conceded. Second game, he Spell Pierce my Brainstorm on his 1st turn EoT. On my 3rd turn I played Snt, which he responds with Snap-Pierce and I Daze his Pierce. I drop Omni then BW for Petals-Tendrils win.

Round 3: Dredge (2-0) I played first. I Flusterstorm his 1st turn Faithless looting. On my 2nd turn I won via SnT-Omni-Emrakul. Second game, I Wish for SnT on my 2nd turn, on his third turn he was able to dredge a cabal therapy. He hard cast a Narcomoeba then flashback the Therapy, I responded with my MisD and misdirected it to him. On my 3rd turn I won via SnT-Omni-Petals-Tendrils storm.

Round 4: Punishing Maverick (1-2) He played first. On my 3rd turn I won via SnT-Omni-Emrakul. 2nd game, I mull to 6. I pyroclasm his Teeg and Pridemage but he had another Teeg he played on his turn after. I was holding Omni, Personal Tutor and Burning wish. I was aiming for a Petals-Tendrils win but the Teeg kept me from doing it until I lost when Teeg got equipt with SOFAF eventually. 3rd game, I mulled to 5. I haved SnT-Omni on my 5 cards but with only 1 land (Island). I've drawn my second land (Volcanic Island) but he Wasteland it. I lost while hoping for a Sol Land, but when he show me his hand he was holding a REB and a O-Ring so I'd still lost anyway. In this match I wish I had a Time of Need in my Sideboard I could have won on our second game if I had one. He has no other threat on my combo aside from the Teeg on his board since he has no cards in hand.

Round 5: Jund (1-2) He played first. He played Thoughtseize he took my Brainstorm with Omni and Emrakul in my hand as well. On my turn i top deck SnT. He played Bob turn 2. I won on my turn 2 via SnT-Omni-Emrakul. 2nd game, I was holding the combo already when he Thoughtseize me, I MisD but he REB my MisD. He took my SnT. The game took long he was patiently casting his spells, letting his Tarmo and Bob get Dazed even if he has 3 more mana's that he can use to pay for the Daze. He eventually discarded my hand with Hymn and Duress until he cast his BBE and won eventually. 3rd game, I got mana screwd by his wasteland with the combo already on my hand with protection. On this match, I wish I had Thoughtseize/Discard spells on my Sb it could have help me win this match.

Round 6: 12 Post (1-2) He played first. On my turn 2 I won with Petals-Tendrils storm. 2nd game, on my turn 3 I SnT-Omni but he drop a Spine of Isha. He won later on with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. 3rd game, I did the same thing but he drop Oblivion Stone and activate. I was able to SnT-Omni-Wish later on but he Mindbreak trap after I wish. Lost to Kozilek again. In this match same with Jund, I wish I had Thoughtseize in my Sb. I drop after since I still have to go to work.

I'm going to add 4 Thoughtseize and 1 Time of Need in my Sb next time - for 2nd and 3rd game. 1 Intuition in my maindeck wasn't necessary, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 Preordain, 1 Personal Tutor, 4 Burning Wish is enough to find the combo. I'll add 1 Misdirection Maindeck cutting the Intuition.

I think the deck is consistent based on my experience.

[PartyMonster]

I have been working on a black splash list since early October. Feel free to hate, but i have had very consistent luck with it. Heavy testing online as well as winning a few local events in Western NY.


2xLotus Petal
4xBrainstorm
4xDaze
4xForce of Will
1xIntuition
2xLim-Dul's Vault
4xOmniscience
2xEmrakul, the Aeons Torn
2xGriselbrand
1xDeath Wish
1xDuress
2xPersonal Tutor
4xPonder
1xPreordain
4xShow and Tell
4xThoughtseize
2xAncient Tomb
1xBoseiju, Who Shelters ..
3xIsland
4xMisty Rainforest
4xPolluted Delta
1xSwamp
2xUnderground Sea
1xVerdant Catacombs


Sideboard

3xGrafdigger's Cage
1xPithing Needle
2xEchoing Truth
2xFlusterstorm
2xSpell Pierce
1xSurgical Extraction
1xEye of Nowhere
1xUlamog, the Infinite G..
1xEnter the Infinite
1xInquisition of Kozilek



thanks.

[georgjorge]

I'm more concerned that the decks combo takes too long to set up compared to Sneak and Show. I'm not sure if this decks advantages are worth the speed and resiliency we are sacrificing compared to Sneak and Show.


For what it's worth, I have played both and seem to do better with Omni. But I don't play it that much differently - for me Omniscience is just another option in addition to Griselbrand and Emrakul, and game one I'm often fine with putting either into play alone if necessary. The extra resiliency comes from getting around problematic stuff like Karakas, Knight of the Reliquary or Gilded Drake as well as beating the permanents Sneak Show, Belcher, 12Post, Reanimator and other such decks put into play. I agree that Sneak Show could be better in an unprepared meta, but I think with the recent successes of Show and Tell that would be hard to find.

There's been some discussion on Stifle, and someone said that it turns the deck into a four-card-combo. While that's a good point, I still find it useful (running three in the side at the moment) and not that uncommon to have Omniscience + Wish/Emrakul/Griselbarnd + Show + Stifle in hand by turn four or so, and it's also nice to draw 14 with Griselbrand in response to a CIP effect and then Stifle it. I bring them in against Miracles (Detention Sphere), Goblins (Stingscourger and lots of other targets) and in general against decks where I have space to bring things in (i.e. decks without much counters or discard, like Maverick). With people boarding stuff like Oblivion Ring and Angel of Despair, they can turn a loss into a win when boarded in correctly while still maintaining a lot of utility against other random stuff. What's your opinion?

For reference, my side is

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Boseiju
3 Stifle
2 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Show and Tell
1 Turbulent Dreams
1 Enter then Infinite

[dcosiem]

Alright, since for some reason, there isn't a lot of discussions that are going on. I guess I'll start one.

What do you guys think of the black splash for Thoughtseize as being part of the core for this deck I think because it gives us the ability to rip off something nice from our opponent either the turn we win or the turn previous before we win. I think Thoughtseize acts not only as an additional counter but as a removal to keep our Omniscience from being Oblivion Ring, Confusion in the ranks, Angel of Despair type tricks people have for our decks. If we're playing against a blue deck, they will either let Thoughtseize resolve or counter it if they want to not show us what they have in their hand to keep the element of surprise on their side to counter our show and tell.

What do you guys think of getting rid of all dazes in the main board for a 2/1 Spell Pierce/Misdirection just like Sneak and Show? I think that Daze is not good enough counterspell to last us in the mid game to late game. I don't think we are too worried about an early turn interaction where our opponent will try to control us, and we have a daze to back out Show and tell up. I think if we wait and get enough lands if we play 20 lands, we're able to show and tell, then cast a spell pierce to be more effective counter on turn 4-5. To cast a daze during that turn would be useless right? Then again, if you go off on turn 2, you may want to have a daze in your hand, but if you have a misdirection and a additional kicker, then the possibility might be nice to the additional to a Force of will and a blue. The hand would have to be like this: show and tell, force, misdirection, spell pierce, brain storm, ancient tomb, land. Let's say you draw into a Burning Wish and a Thoughtseize. This would be ideal situation if possible.

[Esper3k]

I don't think a black splash is necessary. If you want to fight stuff like that, you can play Vendilion Clique. EoT Clique, clear the way, go off on your turn.

[dcosiem]

That's a possible suggestion, but it's too mana sinking when i can do the same thing for 1. I have a playset of Thoughtseizes, Underground seas, and Polluted Deltas. Obtaining these cards isn't a problem .

[Esper3k]

That's a possible suggestion, but it's too mana sinking when i can do the same thing for 1. I have a playset of Thoughtseizes, Underground seas, and Polluted Deltas. Obtaining these cards isn't a problem .

It's not about obtaining cards. It's about turning your 2 color deck into a 3 color deck and increasing your weakness to Wasteland.

Clique also pitches to FoW/Misdirection/Dream Halls as well over Thoughtseize. It's not like the deck normally goes off super quickly anyways so the extra mana cost really isn't a big deal.

[dcosiem]

It's not about obtaining cards. It's about turning your 2 color deck into a 3 color deck and increasing your weakness to Wasteland.

Clique also pitches to FoW/Misdirection/Dream Halls as well over Thoughtseize. It's not like the deck normally goes off super quickly anyways so the extra mana cost really isn't a big deal.

True. I just think it might be clunky with how I'm building the deck to be. I'm trying to add more control effect to be more stablized in control and varrient matchups to the deck without getting rid of discard effect because it's really a powerful and cost effective spell.

[georgjorge]

What do you guys think of getting rid of all dazes in the main board for a 2/1 Spell Pierce/Misdirection just like Sneak and Show?


That's what I did, for pretty much the reasons you listed. No Dazes, two Spell Pierce (which might still be too much), one Flusterstorm and two Misdirection. In black-heavy metas it might be worth playing Divert instead of Spell Pierce since there are currently not so many non-discard spells I need to counter with this deck (mostly Planeswalkers).

Having Thoughtseize in this deck would be a great thing for sure, but I'm wary about Wasteland as well, especially when coupled with Delvers and cheap taxing counters. As it is, I am very often able to play/fetch only basics until the turn I go off. Let us know how big of a problem Wasteland is in your testing.

[Esper3k]

True. I just think it might be clunky with how I'm building the deck to be. I'm trying to add more control effect to be more stablized in control and varrient matchups to the deck without getting rid of discard effect because it's really a powerful and cost effective spell.

Clique is better against control since it also gives you a plan B in case you can't go off with Show & Tell.

[dcosiem]

That's what I did, for pretty much the reasons you listed. No Dazes, two Spell Pierce (which might still be too much), one Flusterstorm and two Misdirection. In black-heavy metas it might be worth playing Divert instead of Spell Pierce since there are currently not so many non-discard spells I need to counter with this deck (mostly Planeswalkers).

Having Thoughtseize in this deck would be a great thing for sure, but I'm wary about Wasteland as well, especially when coupled with Delvers and cheap taxing counters. As it is, I am very often able to play/fetch only basics until the turn I go off. Let us know how big of a problem Wasteland is in your testing.

Yea, I'll have to test that match-up when i get the chance before this weekend comes up. With all the matches that I've played against Rug Delver, it seems like it always have enough counters to everything I had. I get stifled once or twice, but that really isn't a problem with the games that I've played. The version of Rug Delver I had played had Spell Snares in it so it was countering Burning Wish. I think by having Red Elemental Blast is a good choice for possible extra protection to the combo theoretically. The sad thing is that Rug Delver also plays the same thing. Maybe play an overmaster in the side like 2 instead of Red Elemental blast? In my testing with Overmaster, I feel like REB does the same thing almost, but Overmasters nets you 1 card before you cast Show and tell, if they don't counter it. Casting it also pressures your opponent to counter it. You can make them think you're show and telling and cast into a safe Burning Wish into a Show and Tell, but who knows. Most likely, if they don't counter it, they are doomed. I find that Personal Tutor is a must, and I think 1 intuition is very good.


I agree Stifle/Wasteland mana denial strat in Rug Delver is a challenge to deal with. That's why I've considered playing Abrupt Decay in the side and splash green as well (LOL) to get rid of Goyf and delver problems before we can cast Show and Tell. Or it might not be a problem. I don't know.



Clique is better against control since it also gives you a plan B in case you can't go off with Show & Tell.

It will be challenging to clique if you're playing against Rug.

[Esper3k]

It will be challenging to clique if you're playing against Rug.

RUG isn't a deck you'd bring in Clique against since they don't typically pack much (if anything) relevant to drop off of Show & Tell.

[dcosiem]

RUG isn't a deck you'd bring in Clique against since they don't typically pack much (if anything) relevant to drop off of Show & Tell.

I think clique is a bad option in terms of mana curve and build. I run 4 3 cc spells with 3 s n t/ 1 intuition. To add 2-3 vendilion clique will blow up my mana curve forcing me to possibly play a higher land count. My land count is about 20: 4 sol lands, 8 fetches and 8 lands. 5 are nonbasic and the 3 are basic.

[downtoonelife]

If we want to keep it UR only, I think Stifle is better than Vendilion Clique in the sideboard. Stifle can stop whatever ETB card ability they put into play after Show and Tell. With Vendilion Clique, there is still a possibility of having them draw a threat to the combo. But I'd still like to try splashing black for 4 Thoughtseize in the sideboard. These are the common cards that can came down after SnT:

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Gaddock Teeg
Qasali Pridemage
Knight of the Reliquary
Angel of Despair
Oblivion Ring
Oblivion Stone
Detention Sphere
Spine of Ish Sah
Goblin Charbelcher
Helm of Obedience
Karakas

Stifle can answer most of them but unlike Thoughtseize - it can also discard counterspells and you can Burning Wish for them too game 1. My idea would be to side in 3-4 Thoughtseize and side out 4 Daze for game 2. Wasteland is always present so IF you're really worried about it then you can just add 1 basic swamp main.

[Esper3k]

If we want to keep it UR only, I think Stifle is better than Vendilion Clique in the sideboard. Stifle can stop whatever ETB card ability they put into play after Show and Tell. With Vendilion Clique, there is still a possibility of having them draw a threat to the combo. But I'd still like to try splashing black for 4 Thoughtseize in the sideboard. These are the common cards that can came down after SnT:

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Gaddock Teeg
Qasali Pridemage
Knight of the Reliquary
Angel of Despair
Oblivion Ring
Oblivion Stone
Detention Sphere
Spine of Ish Sah
Goblin Charbelcher
Helm of Obedience
Karakas

Stifle can answer most of them but unlike Thoughtseize - it can also discard counterspells and you can Burning Wish for them too game 1. My idea would be to side in 3-4 Thoughtseize and side out 4 Daze for game 2. Wasteland is always present so IF you're really worried about it then you can just add 1 basic swamp main.

True there's the small chance they can always draw a card off of Clique if you have to force them to bottom a card, but it's a statically very small one.

Most common cards (that you will care about) would probably be:

Knight of the Reliquary
Oblivion Ring
Detention Sphere
Venser, Shaper Savant
Karakas
Pithing Needle
Phyrexian Revoker
Emrakul/Griselbrand (in the mirror or vs Reanimator)

Honestly stuff like Teeg & Thalia you shouldn't really care about. Qasali Pridemage can be annoying if you dropped Omniscience but it's pretty underplayed right now in the format.

Stifle is fine, but it costs you extra mana the turn you're going off if you're not dropping Omniscience off of Show & Tell.

A pretty cute "free" Stifle effect you can use is Not of This World.

[georgjorge]

I wanted to bring up a discussion on how to beat Sneak Show - the pseudo-mirror - with this deck. The problem is that they only need to resolve a two-card combo (Sneak/Through the Breach + creature) to win while we need to assemble a three-card combo which can even be disrupted by them dropping the appropriate creature (Emrakul if we have Emrakul, Griselbrand if we have Burning Wish). Furthermore, the Wishboard doesn't leave me space for Pyro- or Hydroblasts, making my best sideboard strategy

-4 Griselbrand
-2 Misdirection
+3 Boseiju
+3 Stifle

hoping to use Stifle on fetchlands and keep them from reaching five mana (or at least making Spell Pierce effective against them). These sideboard cards are not great but better than what I take out for them.

What are your strategies?

[dcosiem]

I wanted to bring up a discussion on how to beat Sneak Show - the pseudo-mirror - with this deck. The problem is that they only need to resolve a two-card combo (Sneak/Through the Breach + creature) to win while we need to assemble a three-card combo which can even be disrupted by them dropping the appropriate creature (Emrakul if we have Emrakul, Griselbrand if we have Burning Wish). Furthermore, the Wishboard doesn't leave me space for Pyro- or Hydroblasts, making my best sideboard strategy

-4 Griselbrand
-2 Misdirection
+3 Boseiju
+3 Stifle

hoping to use Stifle on fetchlands and keep them from reaching five mana (or at least making Spell Pierce effective against them). These sideboard cards are not great but better than what I take out for them.

What are your strategies?

My best idea of strategy to stop Sneak and Show is to board in pithing needle to stop them from casting Sneak Attack and using it. Since, this match-up usually causes a counter war, it's best to just to do this i fine. Also, if you can land a thoughtseize on them and take away their combo piece it's very effective.

[dcosiem]

Does anyone think that Jace is to clunky in this deck since it's basically a 3 card combo? Why do we need Jace if we're respectfully going Show and tell + Omni + Burning Wish/Emrakul/Griselbrand? I feel like his CC causes him to be to expensive to play when I'm short on mana. I feel like he should of been like a preordain to help me can-trip. In my list, I don't play any Preordains except 4 brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 1 Personal Tutor, and 2 Jace. I have 12 counterspells. What do you guys think on this?

[Esper3k]

Omniscience is generally the best way to beat Sneaky Show, imo.

Even if they drop Emrakul or Griselbrand, you may possibly:

1) Just kill them outright with Burning Wish
2) If you have Emrakul and they drop Emrakul, you still get the extra turn off of Omniscience. If you drop Griselbrand, you'll likely just auto win right there off of his card draw. If they have Griselbrand and you cast Emrakul off of Omniscience, you win.

Pretty much your worst case scenario off of dropping Omniscience is them dropping GB. Even if they drop GB, you have a chance to kill them off of Burning Wish (admittedly tougher to resolve through their GB draws) or just kill them with Emrakul.

For the lists still running JTMS, he's another out you have to their dudes when you drop Omniscience.

[georgjorge]

Omniscience is generally the best way to beat Sneaky Show, imo.

Even if they drop Emrakul or Griselbrand, you may possibly:

1) Just kill them outright with Burning Wish
2) If you have Emrakul and they drop Emrakul, you still get the extra turn off of Omniscience. If you drop Griselbrand, you'll likely just auto win right there off of his card draw. If they have Griselbrand and you cast Emrakul off of Omniscience, you win.

Pretty much your worst case scenario off of dropping Omniscience is them dropping GB. Even if they drop GB, you have a chance to kill them off of Burning Wish (admittedly tougher to resolve through their GB draws) or just kill them with Emrakul.

For the lists still running JTMS, he's another out you have to their dudes when you drop Omniscience.


It's a tricky matchup for sure. A good Sneak player will try and quickly find a Griselbrand (and of course Sneak Attack), so I wouldn't really risk going off with only Omni + Burning Wish/Griselbrand (as mentioned, I actually board out the Griselbrands because the chance of them dropping one off Show and Tell are rather high) unless I really need to, i.e. they just dropped Sneak Attack and will activate it next turn. It's winnable (especially game one if they don't know what you play and cast Show and Tell themselves) but you have to assemble Omni + Show + Emrakul rather quickly, fourth turn at the latest unless you draw a handful of counterspells to slow them down.

Pithing Needle looks very strong here, but I don't know that there are enough applications outside the pseudo-mirror. What do you bring them in against?

[dcosiem]

What are some people's thoughts on Rob V.'s mono blue omni-tell deck with dream halls? I believe in my honest opinion that his deck is the real deal. I believe its the perfect deck for omniscience to have his home in with enter the infinite. They were both meant to be played together with dream halls. I totally believe that what we have here and now is just a worse show and tell deck, worse than sneak and show. With dream halls, we can just pitch a blue spell to cast enter the infinite rather than go through the usual line of play to do the same. This deck makes it simplified for us to win.

[Karhumies]

We have some solid cards in the Omniscience list - just barely not enough for a solid 60 card Legacy deck.

My thought about the "last slots" in the list:
MD Daze in multiples has been bad
Thoughtseize is OK, but splashing for black causes more Wasteland trouble than the splash is worth. My main issue is that Thoughtseize only protects against T1 discard effect when I am going first (Thoughtseize to take out their Thoughtseize, basically).
Overmaster: you don't want to draw them against non-counter decks. multiples tend to be horrible.
Misdirection is too heavy on blue cards to run in multiples in tandem with the FoW (at least in a 2 or 3 color build)
Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are best at protecting your hand from discard effects - but only when on the play, otherwise you get hit T1
Lim-Dul's Vault is OK to set up the combo (much better T2 than B.Wish) because it can find any missing piece, OK because it's a blue card, but opens up the manabase for Wasteland and can be horrible in the end game if run in multiples (does not cantrip for Omniscience, so can end shutting up the storm count)
Jace is mana-heavy, but - rather surprisingly - he does provide us with a non-Show and Tell alternative win condition. Planeswalker multiples are exceptionally bad, though.

Because all of the aforementioned cards have diminishing marginal utility = you usually never want to have multiples in hand (except Thoughtseize), I have tried some 1-1-1-1 splits.
(Mental note: Sneak Attack seems to trump that whole list as the MD cards #57-60)

Deck weaknesses:
Very vulnerable to opponent's T1 on the play discard effect
Heavy reliance on SnT (at least without using Dream Halls) combined without enough counter support to win big counter wars over it on the casting turn
T2 Burning Wish to set up the combo gives away too much information for the opponent

[PartyMonster]

We have some solid cards in the Omniscience list - just barely not enough for a solid 60 card Legacy deck.

My thought about the "last slots" in the list:
MD Daze in multiples has been bad
Thoughtseize is OK, but splashing for black causes more Wasteland trouble than the splash is worth. My main issue is that Thoughtseize only protects against T1 discard effect when I am going first (Thoughtseize to take out their Thoughtseize, basically).
Overmaster: you don't want to draw them against non-counter decks. multiples tend to be horrible.
Misdirection is too heavy on blue cards to run in multiples in tandem with the FoW (at least in a 2 or 3 color build)
Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are best at protecting your hand from discard effects - but only when on the play, otherwise you get hit T1
Lim-Dul's Vault is OK to set up the combo (much better T2 than B.Wish) because it can find any missing piece, OK because it's a blue card, but opens up the manabase for Wasteland and can be horrible in the end game if run in multiples (does not cantrip for Omniscience, so can end shutting up the storm count)
Jace is mana-heavy, but - rather surprisingly - he does provide us with a non-Show and Tell alternative win condition. Planeswalker multiples are exceptionally bad, though.

Because all of the aforementioned cards have diminishing marginal utility = you usually never want to have multiples in hand (except Thoughtseize), I have tried some 1-1-1-1 splits.
(Mental note: Sneak Attack seems to trump that whole list as the MD cards #57-60)

Deck weaknesses:
Very vulnerable to opponent's T1 on the play discard effect
Heavy reliance on SnT (at least without using Dream Halls) combined without enough counter support to win big counter wars over it on the casting turn
T2 Burning Wish to set up the combo gives away too much information for the opponent

If that is how you feel about the blue red list you should try this list out. It addresses a lot of the concerns you have touched on. The disruption package is strong and diversified. The list is a bit lower in the cantrip department, I only have it that way because a great deal of the time with more preordain it felt like I was just cantriping into air. There is no burning wish because I was worried about wasteland.

Artifact
2xLotus Petal

Enchantment
4xOmniscience

Instant
4xBrainstorm
2xDaze
4xForce of Will
3xLim-Dul's Vault
1xMisdirection
1xSpell Pierce

Creature
2xEmrakul, the Aeons Torn
2xGriselbrand

Sorcery
1xDeath Wish
1xDuress
2xPersonal Tutor
4xPonder
1xPreordain
4xShow and Tell
4xThoughtseize

Land
2xAncient Tomb
1xBoseiju, Who Shelters ..
3xIsland
4xMisty Rainforest
4xPolluted Delta
1xSwamp
2xUnderground Sea
1xVerdant Catacombs


Sideboard

Artifact
4xGrafdigger's Cage
1xPithing Needle

Instant
3xEchoing Truth
2xFlusterstorm
1xSpell Pierce
1xStifle
Creature
1xUlamog, the Infinite G..

Sorcery
1xEnter the Infinite
1xInquisition of Kozilek

[bfeingersh]

Lost in the finals* of 2 smallish PAX events going 10-2-2 with the following omniscience list: http://pastebin.com/zVBWKd4g

Tournament 1 beat Belcher 2-0, High Tide 2-1, Dredge 2-1, GW Enchantress 2-0, ID Dredge, 12Post 2-0, GW Enchantress 1-2
Tournament 2 beat Esper Blade 2-0, 12Post 2-0, Omniscience Mirror 2-1, RUG Delver 2-1, ID UWr Delver, UR Delver 2-1, RUG Delver 0-2

If anyone has any questions about my particular list (it's slightly off from what I've seen in other lists around) or matchups hit me up. I haven't played any legacy since GP Denver due to grinding modern for PTQs, but this list still feels as good as it was a few months ago.

*5 rounds cut to t4

[Karhumies]

If that is how you feel about the blue red list you should try this list out.

A few notions:

- Running 2 colors rather than 3 seems to be the right choice in a Wasteland-heavy meta, IMO.
- Boseiju is a very interesting card choice. Potentially much better than Overmaster. How satisfied are you with it so far?
- How satisfied are you with the manabase? Balancing between colorless sources is opening hand vs. being able to cast T2 LDV can be difficult.
- MD Death Wish gives access to SB bounce, which is a catch-all solution (Ensnaring Bridge, etc.). I like that.
- Your list has no recovery from opponent's on-the-play T1 Thoughtseize -> Show and Tell -> Surgical Extraction to SnT. Has happened to me in a tournament once, but then I just used B.Wish->SB SnT to win that game and the match.

[georgjorge]

We have some solid cards in the Omniscience list - just barely not enough for a solid 60 card Legacy deck.

My thought about the "last slots" in the list:
MD Daze in multiples has been bad
Thoughtseize is OK, but splashing for black causes more Wasteland trouble than the splash is worth. My main issue is that Thoughtseize only protects against T1 discard effect when I am going first (Thoughtseize to take out their Thoughtseize, basically).
Overmaster: you don't want to draw them against non-counter decks. multiples tend to be horrible.
Misdirection is too heavy on blue cards to run in multiples in tandem with the FoW (at least in a 2 or 3 color build)
Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are best at protecting your hand from discard effects - but only when on the play, otherwise you get hit T1
Lim-Dul's Vault is OK to set up the combo (much better T2 than B.Wish) because it can find any missing piece, OK because it's a blue card, but opens up the manabase for Wasteland and can be horrible in the end game if run in multiples (does not cantrip for Omniscience, so can end shutting up the storm count)
Jace is mana-heavy, but - rather surprisingly - he does provide us with a non-Show and Tell alternative win condition. Planeswalker multiples are exceptionally bad, though.

Because all of the aforementioned cards have diminishing marginal utility = you usually never want to have multiples in hand (except Thoughtseize), I have tried some 1-1-1-1 splits.
(Mental note: Sneak Attack seems to trump that whole list as the MD cards #57-60)

Deck weaknesses:
Very vulnerable to opponent's T1 on the play discard effect
Heavy reliance on SnT (at least without using Dream Halls) combined without enough counter support to win big counter wars over it on the casting turn
T2 Burning Wish to set up the combo gives away too much information for the opponent


I feel a lot like that myself. My countersuite is 2 Misdirection 2 Spell Pierce 1 Flusterstorm 0 Daze as I don't really want to draw more than one of them, sometimes not even one. That's with both Preordain and Griselbrand already maxed out (which I find to be a good thing).

Anyway, a T1 discard effect is not the end of the world with so many cantrips to find the combo again, second turn Hymn (maybe with a Deathrite on the board for Daze ) is more problematic, and those counterspells are good at stopping that while Misdirection and Flusterstorm also work well in counter wars.

Regarding monoblue Dream Halls Omniscience, I'd be interested in some testing results. Being able to combo off 2 cards + random blue card sounds awesome, but I'd be worried about one of them being run only as a 3-of and the other one costing five mana. It sounds more consistent (with Intuitions) but also slower, may be worth a try since speed often enough isn't the problem with this deck.

[dcosiem]

I've been testing the Mono blue Omni-tell deck. I personally call it the Dream show because it uses Dream Halls. LOL Here are my thoughts:

-Cunning Wish is bad for this deck. It needs more counters to deal with control decks to even make it 50/50.

-Jace is terrible for mono blue version.

-Sensei top is not needed.

-The deck is smooth being 1 color. Having less unplayable hands is less possible. Almost every hand is playable.

-Setting up a win is much easier and less problematic.

[bfeingersh]

A few notions:

- MD Death Wish gives access to SB bounce, which is a catch-all solution (Ensnaring Bridge, etc.). I like that.

You can already have this if you put eye of nowhere in your wishboard, which nobody seems to remember exists

[BanShowAndTell]

Infinite Wishes
----------------------
4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Trickbind
7 Force of Will/Pact of Negation/Flusterstorm/Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
6-7 Island
0-1 Underground Sea

SB: 1 Intuition (enables Wish to find SnT/Omni, is lethal with Omni)
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight (Intuition->3x Enter, Trickbind, Brainstorm, costs 1 fewer card, makes Cunning Wish+Dream Halls+2cards lethal)
SB: 1 Trickbind (makes Wish counter ETB effects like DSphere/ORing/Pridemage)
SB: 1 Wipe Away (answers random stuff, gets sided in with Slaughter Pact left in the board)
SB: 1 Cryptic Command (answers random stuff when sided in while not costing 3, generic good card postboard)
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact (cheapest removal for hatebears like Teeg/Thalia/Canonist)
SB: 1 Research / Development (most efficient win condition Wish->Research->Enter->Lab Man+Brainstorm)
SB: 1 Laboratory Maniac (most efficient (hardest to hate, fewest slots) win conditon)

Count Depends on Maindeck Configuration:
-------------------------------------------
SB: Force of Will (4 in the 75)
SB: Pact of Negation (3-4 in the 75, most efficient counter)
SB: Flusterstorm (arguable over Pact due to passable vs control and excellent vs combo pseudo-mirror)
SB: Thoughtseize (takes all things you care about, Force+Seize is excellent disruption in the combo mirror, requires Underground Sea; my choice as extra non-Force/Pact disruption in the sb)

Random Utility
------------------------------
SB: Surgical Extraction (good vs dredge (therapy), tinfins, reanimator, situationally awesome vs control)
SB: Ravenous Trap (specific dredge hate)
SB: Echoing Truth (can be sided in place of Trickbind to keep Wish->FF open, generic answer)

Powerful Sideboard Options
---------------------------------
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void (TinFins, All Spells, Dredge, Reanimator (might want a 2nd Sea to cast it))
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity (Storm, Jund, Esperblade, Burn)
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (alt win to be sided in so Wish->Research->Lab Man stays in the board), good vs CB @ 3)

No Lotus Petal? Makes you less consistent. Need to hit 5 lands sometimes to cast Dream Halls. less than 19 lands is certainly wrong for this reason. 19 is minimum. 20 might be better.

No Personal Tutor? SnT isn't the only way for this deck to win. Dream Halls can also cheat Omni and Dream Halls alone is enough to win with Wish, Intuition, or Enter. This is an Enter deck, not an Omni deck.

No Emrakuls? This deck has no vulnerability to creature removal. SnT->Emrakul isn't convincing enough to open yourself up to hate. Same for Grisel, although Grisel could see play as anti-SnT hate card since it's generically good if you have nothing else and Grisel is the best card to SnT into play off opponent's SnT).

Few Intuitions? Card is a liability postboard if you don't already have Omni/Dream Halls in play.

4 Cunning Wish - card is Enter 5-8 when you want to win, anti-hate for only efficient SnT hate (oring effects), protection, utility, and an elegant win condition. Play 5 if you can swing it.

No Burning Wish - card is trash. Look at Cunning Wish. Now imagine the card makes you play fewer copies of SnT, Enter the Infinite, worse protection, and forces a worse manabase. No thanks.

Why play this over Reanimator? More resilient. Loses to fewer hate cards. Can play similar disruption. Wins when it goes off.

Why play this over Sneak and Show? More consistent. Loses to fewer hate cards. Better manabase. Wins when it goes off.

Why play this over other Omni decks? Have you seen the other omni decks? They're barely playable.

The matchups can swing based on how you configure the maindeck. You should be working on a mix of the following disruption in your 75:

4 Force of Will
3+ Thoughtseize
1+ Flusterstorm
1+ Pact of Negation

Play 4 Force of Will. If you're trying to hedge more against control decks, you probably want the 4th wishable. If you want more game vs fast combo, you might still want it in the sb, but replace Pact with Thoughtseize or Flusterstorm.
Pact is better vs actual control decks. Significantly worse vs other combo decks. Not terribly good vs anything but control.
Flusterstorm is passable vs discard, okay vs control, excellent vs other combo. Has limited value vs non-control fair decks, but not usually 100% dead.
Thoughtseize is solid vs everything. Some decks are very weak to it, like UW and other combo decks. It's passable but not amazing vs RUG, UWR, Esper. If you want to play 4, you probably want to fit in a 2nd Sea or a Swamp somewhere to make it suck less vs Wasteland Blue (play 4 Delta than). It's good vs hatebears. 2 Life can sometimes be a drag, but hitting VClique, Snapcaster, Teeg, Emrakul, and Grisel is worth it in various matchups. Most pressing is that 2nd black source would be required to play it maindeck and it introduces more pressure on a pristine manabase.

I've found Esper and Team America to be the harder matchups. Discard plus countermagic is rough. white leyline or more flusterstorm helps. Pact and Seize are at their worst against blue decks here.

UW is actually pretty easy since they have limited countermagic, CB largely doesn't matter ince you can resolve Enter then ignore it, and you can answer their permanents with just finding your trickbind or a wish.

RUG has been favorable in most configurations. You don't want all of your Thoughtseize, even though it's a fine card, since losing 4 life is sometimes enough for them to race. You can't lose games they don't flip a quick delver. Most of their soft counters are dead against you.

Reanimator is rough with Pacts main, but can get better if you have Flusterstorms or sb yard hate. Unfavorable preboard most of the time, but if they durdle you can destroy them. Thoughtseize is excellent here.

SnT mirror is generally pretty good. You kill them if they drop Emrakul and can sometimes kill them through Grisel by virtue of Trickbind/Wish limiting them to, at most, 7 cards (sometimes 0) and playing more hard counters. Daze/Spell Pierce are pretty bad against you. Dream Halls is functionally identical to Sneak Attack, except your deck isn't filled with awkward dudes. You'd rather go longer where you can cast Pacts and then pay for them and just hardcast Dream Halls with mana up for their soft counters. This avoids the awkward situation of an opponent dropping Grisel off your SnT and hitting the 50-60% chance of drawing enough hard counters.

Storm is much like reanimator. You can kill them from turn 2, and your matchup will be determined by how you configure the disruption in your 75. The ANT builds are hosed by white leyline preventing them from targeting you with discard. TES builds and Doomsday builds are more resilient due to Silence. Thoughtseize is excellent here.

Maverick is generally favorable. You can actually combo through Thalia and your manabase is good. They can put up a lot of quick pressure, and you need either Force or Wish->Pact to handle Teeg.

Jund has some discard, is cold to white leyline, and in general has a hard time beating your massively redundant, cantrip-backed combo with good mana. Shardless BUG is similar, but they might have Force of Will. Nic Fit is like Jund, but might combo kill you. They might also durdle while giving you free islands....

http://pastebin.com/brbzkExU

[Lemnear]

Cunning Wish vs. Burning Wish: lol ... seriously ... lol ... Burning Wish gives you additional 3 copies of S&T, Access to Enter the Infinite out of the SB instead of Running more bricks maindeck. 4 EtI maindeck is a crutch

Since then is Emrakul vulnerable to Legacy's creature removal, unless you have the rare misfortune to face a Oblivion Ring joining Emrakul off your S&T? Emrakul via Omniscience is a 100% win. You neither seem to have a clue why Griselbrand made it into this Deck and Legacy overall either.

Your analysis of strength/weakness is flawed. This Deck bricks like hell off the EtI and Dream Hall with only 4 tombs to accelerate the later. Cunning wish does neither help protecting anything nor helps your gameplan (Cryptic command?! A 7 mana Solution via wish->command is that you call "playing Legacy"?), Dream Halls is no Solution to the current Form of Defense in Legacy atm which combines discard & tax-Counters. Those would tear such a slow Deck like the suggested appart in no time. The thing you ignore about reanimator and Sneak&Show is that they trade their invulnerablility to Wasteland against raw speed. You can't come up and call this strategy inferior in a Tempo orientated metagame. If you think Omni-Tell is "barely playable" despite showing T8 performances, I think you should adjust your perception.

In Case you feel there ARE significant weaknesses in the concept, I give you a hint: they have nothing to do with the spells you cast AFTER Omniscience enters the game.


Edit: Another hint - Griselbrand does nearly the same as enter the infinite but being a permament for Show&Tell

[Karhumies]

In Case you feel there ARE significant weaknesses in the concept, I give you a hint: they have nothing to do with the spells you cast AFTER Omniscience enters the game.

This.

In my opinion, the biggest problem we currently have is that any clock - no matter how slow or bad - will get the opponent there, as long as they can hold off our SnT simultaneously. When playing against an opponent who after landing 1 permanent with a power value begins filtering in my EOT to stock up on tax counters so he has 2-3 of them ready for every SnT attempt I make (and ignores countering any other spells we have)...that's difficult to punch through. There are many different decks including U which could be piloted like that. If we're fortunate, the opponent will not play with such an optimal strategy vs us, but if we're not... :-/

[georgjorge]

This.

In my opinion, the biggest problem we currently have is that any clock - no matter how slow or bad - will get the opponent there, as long as they can hold off our SnT simultaneously. When playing against an opponent who after landing 1 permanent with a power value begins filtering in my EOT to stock up on tax counters so he has 2-3 of them ready for every SnT attempt I make (and ignores countering any other spells we have)...that's difficult to punch through. There are many different decks including U which could be piloted like that. If we're fortunate, the opponent will not play with such an optimal strategy vs us, but if we're not... :-/


I think it's not that bad, though decks like RUG Delver are by no means an easy matchup. Remember that those decks only play four hard counters pre-board, and their taxing counters get worse every turn as long as you drop (Sol-)lands. Picking the right time to play Show and Tell - usually shortly before you would die to their clock - is key. Sure, if they have one Delver, two lands, and the rest Forces and Spell Pierces, they'll win, but they don't get to sculpt perfect hands every game, and every additional creature or removal they have is a bit like a lost card for them.

I board in Boseiju there - they play Wastelands, but Boseiju makes them HAVE to have it or likely lose. Not sure if Grid is better or not.

For me, the most problematic decks are those with both discard + counterspells, since discard doesn't lose value like taxing counters do, and I'm often torn between siding in Leyline, Boseiju, or neither (because they don't run enough of either category to justify the boarding but enough of both to cause problems). Oh, and of course those runnign + protecting Meddling Mages.

[Koby]

I played the UR OmniShow yesterday to less than spectacular results; likely due to a high presence of discard strategies.

Burning Wish -> Enter the Infinite was pretty dirty, and I commented how Griselbrand, Omniscience, and Enter the Infinite were all printed with the last 12 months to make this happen. Sad sad world R&D has created.

Anyways, lost a pair of matches because of numerous mulls to 5 trying to find an Island. Kept a respectable 6 non-land hand with Misdirection, Fow, Bwish, Omni, Ponder, Brainstorm - but my opponent went: Duress, Thoughtseize, Hymn, BBE->Hymn, Liliana off the top of his deck, and I did not find a land at all. Ended up losing to TES, Jund, and a rogue UB Delver/discard deck in the final round after I was already out of contention for prizes.

[Esper3k]

As much as I like the Omniscience decks since they just kill your opponent immediately without using the attack step, I don't see them as being more consistent than the Sneaky Show decks.

Sneaky Show usually only has to assemble 2 cards and has 8 copies of each.

Omniscience decks almost always have to assemble 3 cards, increasing the time it takes to find your combo pieces as well as making you even more vulnerable to hand disruption.

[lochlan]

Omniscience decks almost always have to assemble 3 cards, increasing the time it takes to find your combo pieces as well as making you even more vulnerable to hand disruption.

To be fair, you can Show and Tell Omniscience into play and just let it sit there without much risk versus most decks.

[Lemnear]

I think it's not that bad, though decks like RUG Delver are by no means an easy matchup. Remember that those decks only play four hard counters pre-board, and their taxing counters get worse every turn as long as you drop (Sol-)lands. Picking the right time to play Show and Tell - usually shortly before you would die to their clock - is key. Sure, if they have one Delver, two lands, and the rest Forces and Spell Pierces, they'll win, but they don't get to sculpt perfect hands every game, and every additional creature or removal they have is a bit like a lost card for them.



RUG's creatures and Removal aka Burn increases their clock significantly. They are NOT deaddraws like you imply. The Solution to Taxing Counters and discard sure aren't reducing the mana acceleration + playing 5cc enchantments

[PartyMonster]

This.

In my opinion, the biggest problem we currently have is that any clock - no matter how slow or bad - will get the opponent there, as long as they can hold off our SnT simultaneously. When playing against an opponent who after landing 1 permanent with a power value begins filtering in my EOT to stock up on tax counters so he has 2-3 of them ready for every SnT attempt I make (and ignores countering any other spells we have)...that's difficult to punch through. There are many different decks including U which could be piloted like that. If we're fortunate, the opponent will not play with such an optimal strategy vs us, but if we're not... :-/

The U/B list is good at applying pressure. Burning wish may be able to reach outside of the deck but lim duls vault can find whatever missing combo piece you need. Thoughtsieze FOW back up is pretty solid on beating hate and counters at the same time.

Artifact
2xLotus Petal

Enchantment
4xOmniscience

Instant
4xBrainstorm
2xDaze
4xForce of Will
1xIntuition
2xLim-Dul's Vault
1xMisdirection
1xSpell Pierce

Creature
2xEmrakul, the Aeons Torn
2xGriselbrand


Sorcery
1xDeath Wish
1xDuress
2xPersonal Tutor
4xPonder
1xPreordain
4xShow and Tell
4xThoughtseize

Land
2xAncient Tomb
1xBoseiju, Who Shelters ..
3xIsland
4xMisty Rainforest
4xPolluted Delta
1xSwamp
2xUnderground Sea
1xVerdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15 cards)

Artifact
4xGrafdigger's Cage
1xPithing Needle

Instant
3xEchoing Truth
2xFlusterstorm
2xSpell Pierce

Creature
1xUlamog, the Infinite G..

Sorcery
1xEnter the Infinite
1xInquisition of Kozilek

[bfeingersh]

Side note that I'm sure you're aware of, but that list is 100% cold to surgical on show and tell, you may want to consider putting a S&T in the board.

[PartyMonster]

Side note that I'm sure you're aware of, but that list is 100% cold to surgical on show and tell, you may want to consider putting a S&T in the board.

That is true, But it almost the only downside and it really hasn't been that big of a deal. Just consciously play around the surgical extraction, try to keep from using intuition to find S&T, make them discard there surgical and keep your show and tells out of the graveyard and your fine. My concern with surgical extraction is mainly trying to dodge the shuffle effect, and even then it isn't game over. Also its really nice to have four actual copys of S&T in the main deck for consistency, and it makes Lim-duls vault for it less painful considering it is the most common target.

[bfeingersh]

So what happens when you're on the draw and they t1 thoughtseize surgical you?

[Esper3k]

To be fair, you can Show and Tell Omniscience into play and just let it sit there without much risk versus most decks.

Sure, but you still need to find EtI (ie, still need a third card) to win. Usually it's not the mana to cast cantrips that stops us, it's not finding the card itself after running out of cantrips.

Needing 3 cards to win < consistent than needing 2 cards to win and increases your vulnerability to hand disruption.

Again, I like the Omniscience kill because I like getting around the attack step and things like Ensnaring Bridges / Humility, etc. but I also recognize that it's not as consistent as the Sneaky Show plan.

[PartyMonster]

So what happens when you're on the draw and they t1 thoughtseize surgical you?

force of will, misdirection., not having S&T in your opening hand game two. winning game one and being on the play game three. I understand the concern but I have been playing the deck in real life for the last 6 months and it has only come up once to losing a game in a match like that and I still won the match. Also with out Burning wish a show and tell in the sideboard isn't going to get you very far in the consistency department.

[downtoonelife]

I won a 4 round tournament last Sunday. Played against (R1 1-2) Pox, (R2 2-0) Zomvines, (R3 2-1) Jund and (R4 2-0) Esperblade.


To be fair, you can Show and Tell Omniscience into play and just let it sit there without much risk versus most decks.

I've done this against my match-up with Pox, Jund and Esperblade. My Pox opponent even had ultimate his Liliana of the Veil leaving me with only Omniscience in play and still won (well, since I get to cast spells for free). However, on our 3rd game I lost the match because I was not aware that I still have to pay 3 mana with Trinisphere and Omniscience in play. I was supposed to combo off with Snt+Omni and holding a Burning Wish. With Jund I dropped Omniscience and cantrip for my win. With Esperblade game 1 I dropped Griselbrand and drawn 14 cards ftw. Game 2 I dropped Omniscience and cantrip for my win.

I also playtested some matches against American Delver. I lost twice only and probably won 5-6 games against it with sideboarding.

[georgjorge]

As much as I like the Omniscience decks since they just kill your opponent immediately without using the attack step, I don't see them as being more consistent than the Sneaky Show decks.

Sneaky Show usually only has to assemble 2 cards and has 8 copies of each.

Omniscience decks almost always have to assemble 3 cards, increasing the time it takes to find your combo pieces as well as making you even more vulnerable to hand disruption.


As I said before, a good number of decks have massive problems against a turn three Griselbrand (which I run as a four-of) or Emrakul (two-of), so it's not as if you HAVE to go for Omni to win a game. It's just another option for when you suspect those cards wouldn't be enough, either because of specific hate (Karakas, Stingscourger, Humility, Liliana...) or because you would still face lethal damage. Which is why I see Omni as not much less consistent than Sneak Show unless you play it as if you have to kill your opponent on the spot once you play Show and Tell.

[Esper3k]

As I said before, a good number of decks have massive problems against a turn three Griselbrand (which I run as a four-of) or Emrakul (two-of), so it's not as if you HAVE to go for Omni to win a game. It's just another option for when you suspect those cards wouldn't be enough, either because of specific hate (Karakas, Stingscourger, Humility, Liliana...) or because you would still face lethal damage. Which is why I see Omni as not much less consistent than Sneak Show unless you play it as if you have to kill your opponent on the spot once you play Show and Tell.

Except to get the two-card combo for Omniscience decks, you really only have 4x Show & Tell as one half of the combo. Sneaky Show decks have double the enablers, thus more consistency.

Again, as I've posted above, I prefer the Omni-Tell decks more, but I do recognize they tend to be slower and have less consistency than the Sneaky Show decks.

[bfeingersh]

force of will, misdirection., not having S&T in your opening hand game two. winning game one and being on the play game three. I understand the concern but I have been playing the deck in real life for the last 6 months and it has only come up once to losing a game in a match like that and I still won the match. Also with out Burning wish a show and tell in the sideboard isn't going to get you very far in the consistency department.

Obviously you can counter some part of their opening draw, but you're using "not having combo pieces in hand" as an argument? That's usually the opposite of the metrics I use when evaluating an opening hand. Also, one of your reasons is "resign the game and try again". I don't like where that's going. If I wanted to play a deck that folded up at the first sign of an opponent's interaction, I'd sleeve up some charbelchers.

And that's cool you've been playing the deck for 6 months, that doesn't make anyone's opinion less valid than your own. I've been playing S&T decks for over 2 years, and there have been people who have been playing them for 15.

Also, I'm just curious about how effective Death Wish has been for you, since it's another 3cc sorcery, but I'd guess probably deals you on average between 7 and 10 damage any game. Does that cause any problems once Griselbrand is in play? Or against RUG, who probably just takes their free Lava Axes and kills you on their turn?

[PartyMonster]

Obviously you can counter some part of their opening draw, but you're using "not having combo pieces in hand" as an argument? That's usually the opposite of the metrics I use when evaluating an opening hand. Also, one of your reasons is "resign the game and try again". I don't like where that's going. If I wanted to play a deck that folded up at the first sign of an opponent's interaction, I'd sleeve up some charbelchers.

And that's cool you've been playing the deck for 6 months, that doesn't make anyone's opinion less valid than your own. I've been playing S&T decks for over 2 years, and there have been people who have been playing them for 15.

Also, I'm just curious about how effective Death Wish has been for you, since it's another 3cc sorcery, but I'd guess probably deals you on average between 7 and 10 damage any game. Does that cause any problems once Griselbrand is in play? Or against RUG, who probably just takes their free Lava Axes and kills you on their turn?

jeez, Thanks for getting off of your high horse and giving the list some open minded consideration.

I wasn't defending the idea of not wanting show and tell in your opening hand, But realistically it just isn't in every open hand. I wish that In U/B you could stick S&T in the board. If you can think of a way to do it please let me know, I would sincerely be interested.

Death Wish sucks. Its terrible. But it does the job. Against RUG you board it out and just put eti. There is no reason to activate griselbrands ability after you use death wish to ETI. The Duress effects keep the opponent of off the ensnaring bridge/ humility. If you need to DW for Ulamog as a catch all its never to hard to find either with gris or just cantrips and tutors.

The list is consistent, it has diversified disruption and is still only two colors. The B/R list has just as many if not more holes in its list. Three colors is to open to wasteland and to diluted to have force of will online as much as it needs to be. The mono Blue dream halls list is cool but I feel like its plan doesn't hold much water with TES and ANT on the rise.

[PartyMonster]

A few notions:

- Running 2 colors rather than 3 seems to be the right choice in a Wasteland-heavy meta, IMO.
- Boseiju is a very interesting card choice. Potentially much better than Overmaster. How satisfied are you with it so far?
- How satisfied are you with the manabase? Balancing between colorless sources is opening hand vs. being able to cast T2 LDV can be difficult.
- MD Death Wish gives access to SB bounce, which is a catch-all solution (Ensnaring Bridge, etc.). I like that.
- Your list has no recovery from opponent's on-the-play T1 Thoughtseize -> Show and Tell -> Surgical Extraction to SnT. Has happened to me in a tournament once, but then I just used B.Wish->SB SnT to win that game and the match.

Thanks for checking it out. Boseiju has been an all star. it makes the match up with stoneblade much better, and against delver you can bait out wastelands with the underground sea getting in a thoughtsieze or lim-duls vault.

I am extremely pleased with the mana base, I wish that I could only run one Underground Sea however it feels needed to have two. Lim duls vault is normally never a problem to cast. sometimes you get funky hands where you don't hit the proper fetch and are worried about wasteland, or some hands are ancient tomb island heavy, I actually recently replaced one of the vaults with an intuition to help make those hands better. As a side note, Limduls vault is a hard card to cast because it can do so much and while still having its draw backs. You dont want to cast it before your sure you already have access to a reliable amount of mana to get the combo through depending on your hand. Its fine to go for a combo piece and a land if it looks like there aren't going to be any coming up with in the clock it would take to draw both cards. If you need a duress effect it is normally fine to go for both in one pile if it is what it takes to resolve S&T.

Death Wish kind of sucks. But it really does what it has to at the end of the day, Your normally alive and can either Ulamog whatever is in your way or draw your whole deck.

I know the no recovery thing from Turn one thoughtsieze surgical sucks, but it has only happened to me once so far in a tournament. It was against esper stoneblade, i was still able win the match as well as finish out the day in first place from a top 8 cut in the second seat.

Your should try the list out, it has really been amazing for me.

Also, sorry for it taking so long for me to reply to you. Somehow I missed your reply on the board. Sincerely thank you for taking an interest.

[georgjorge]

Except to get the two-card combo for Omniscience decks, you really only have 4x Show & Tell as one half of the combo. Sneaky Show decks have double the enablers, thus more consistency.

3 Show + 4 Burning Wish to be precise, only one less than Sneak and Show. If the deck ran 4 Show and Tell and nothing else I'd highly doubt its consistency too :wink:. While Burning Wish is worse than just straight-up Show and Tell, I'm not sure it's that much worse than Sneak Attack, which is quite mana-intensive.

[Esper3k]

3 Show + 4 Burning Wish to be precise, only one less than Sneak and Show. If the deck ran 4 Show and Tell and nothing else I'd highly doubt its consistency too :wink:. While Burning Wish is worse than just straight-up Show and Tell, I'm not sure it's that much worse than Sneak Attack, which is quite mana-intensive.

Sure, the UR lists run 3 Show + 4 BW, but you still need to find either GB/Emrakul (usually a total of 4) or Omniscience + win condition.

BW costs you the same total mana that SA does (granted, you can pay it over multiple turns). SA also has other applications too such as being an out to Detention Sphere/O-Ring which is going to be one of the most commonly seen (and best) pieces of hate we run across.

[dcosiem]

As much as I like the Omniscience decks since they just kill your opponent immediately without using the attack step, I don't see them as being more consistent than the Sneaky Show decks.

Sneaky Show usually only has to assemble 2 cards and has 8 copies of each.

Omniscience decks almost always have to assemble 3 cards, increasing the time it takes to find your combo pieces as well as making you even more vulnerable to hand disruption.

For these reasons, if you play Dream Halls and go all Blue, you have 2 enablers in Show and Tell and Dream Halls. I feel like awkward hands are more common in Sneaky Show because it splashes Red oppose to mono blue. Sometimes, you won't be able to play Misdirection because you have a red card. Misdirection seems to be better in a mono blue Omni-tell deck.

I do agree that this deck is a bit slower or equally as slow as Sneaky Show if you're hardcasting Dream Halls from your hand. The fastest way Dream Halls can come out is on turn 3 if you play 2 Islands on successive turn 1 and turn 2. On turn 2, you play a Grim Monolith.

One note, I took out Misdirection in my maindeck for mono blue Omni-tell because it isn't useful against all the deck except control. I packed Daze instead for a quick Show and go.

[Lemnear]

For these reasons, if you play Dream Halls and go all Blue, you have 2 enablers in Show and Tell and Dream Halls. I feel like awkward hands are more common in Sneaky Show because it splashes Red oppose to mono blue. Sometimes, you won't be able to play Misdirection because you have a red card. Misdirection seems to be better in a mono blue Omni-tell deck.

I do agree that this deck is a bit slower or equally as slow as Sneaky Show if you're hardcasting Dream Halls from your hand. The fastest way Dream Halls can come out is on turn 3 if you play 2 Islands on successive turn 1 and turn 2. On turn 2, you play a Grim Monolith.

One note, I took out Misdirection in my maindeck for mono blue Omni-tell because it isn't useful against all the deck except control. I packed Daze instead for a quick Show and go.



You think daze is a Solution to stick a 5cc enchantment into play in a Tempo meta? Running Dream Halls alongside Daze is a conceptional error

[dcosiem]

You think daze is a Solution to stick a 5cc enchantment into play in a Tempo meta? Running Dream Halls alongside Daze is a conceptional error

Agree with you that it seems like a conceptual error, but in practice, it doesn't seem so much because sometimes you don't play a control deck every match you play. A daze works well with s n t early. If your casting dream halls against a control hopefully you're just baiting him because you have a s n t in your hand. I dislike having to pitch 2 cards from my combo to have double counter in my hand when I kick it.

[Smea.gol.lum]

What is the purpose of Pithing Needle in the SB? Isn't Vendilion Clique better in this slot?

The U/R versions lack the ability to remove troublesome cards like O-Ring from the opponent's hand, but Clique fills this role nicely.

Is Time of Need really needed in the SB?

What about artifact hate to improve bad matchups like MUD??

[neoryujin]

Last week, I attended my very first legacy tournament, a local tournament with 26 people attending, finishing 9th (with quite a couple of misplays).

Decklist:

Creatures:
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

Spells:
1 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Flusterstorm
1 Divert
2 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
3 Enter the Infinite
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
3 Dream Halls
2 Grim Monolith

Lands:
8 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pact of Negation
1 Divert
1 Stifle
1 Trickbind
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Brain Freeze
1 Chill
1 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas

Match 1: vs Some sort of BG Tempo. (Discards, Sinkhole, Chalice of the Void, Dredge cards...? Huh?) Lost. Lost to Liliana of the Veil & Mishra's Workshop, lots of misplays. But was having fun Misdirecting his Sinkholes & Hymn to Tourach...

Match 2: vs BUG Midrange. Won. Twice Turn Two Show and Tell Told the Total Tale. (Ancient Tomb...)

Match 3: vs UW Blade Control. Won. My opponent gave up in front of Emrakul, though having Karakas on board. Free win happens. A couple counterspell wars over Show and Tell later sealed my second round win.

Match 4: vs UW Blade Control. Lost. My Opponent was put on top of his library (...Totally Lost...) after seeing me play Grim Monolith, lost the round & was amazed by the Omniscience & Enter the Infinite combo, and nonetheless went on the next 2 rounds to counter at least 3 of my Show and Tells while aggroing me to death with his Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull + Geist of Saint Traft.

Match 5: vs Turbo Eldrazi. Won. First win came partially from opponent guessing wrong that I was playing Hive Mind (thanks to Grim Monolith, again). The second win came from Show and Telling Dream Halls (holding back Emrakul) against his Primeval Titan (fetching Karakas. My spider sense was tingling), to later on slip Omniscience & casting 0-mana Emrakul with it (though returned to hand twice with Karakas (untapped with Candelabra of Tawnos) but endless extra turns from Emrakul + Omniscience were too much)


Result: 3-2. 9th place.


Highlights / lessons learned:
- Divert & Misdirection were great against discard & Sinkhole (Hymn to Tourach / Thoughtseize? Back at you. Good day, too, Sir.)
- Liliana of the Veil killed this deck. Again & again. (Reducing cards to pitch for Force of Will / Misdirection / Dream Halls) Didn't remember boarding in Pithing Needle... (Wipe Away / Trickbind / Stifle only delayed the certain death...).
- Sided out Grim Monolith everytime (my other way to hardcast Dream Halls. Ancient Tomb was mostly sufficient)
- I wished I had played Personal Tutor, it would have been additional Show and Tell / Enter the Infinite. Didn't manage to buy/borrow one.
- other than that, the deck rocks.


Note: some decisions over the cards were based on the availability of cards on my side, so yes, there is still a lot of change potential for the card selection. Especially the sideboard, since I was totally clueless as how the meta there would look like.

[georgjorge]

I've done some testing with mono-blue Omni Halls (without Cunning Wish), and I'm not all that convinced. Being able to follow up a countered Show and Tell with a hardcast Dream Halls is a strong play, but 5cc is a lot - you usually won't be killed before you can cast it, but your opponent will have a good chance of drawing into more disruption (Hymn and Liliana are even harder on that version than they are on UR). And I really miss the opportunity to just dump a Griselbrand into play and win against a number of decks when you don't draw into your Omni-combo pieces.

Not saying it can't be made viable, but I don't see it as a clearly superior version of Omni decks.


@Time of Need: I personally don't run it since one sideboard slot just to answer one card (Teeg) is too much, and there are enough outs to that card in the deck anyway.

@Pithing Needle: Very versatile, but in my opinion not really needed in this deck as its more of a controllish card. Clique is a bit too slow though for my liking (see previous pages for discussion of Clique).

[LLCoolDave]

@neoryujin:

I was your Round 5 Opponent last sunday =)
Me putting you on Hive Mind didn't change much, it just slightly changed the order of my land drops to make sure I could pay for a green and a blue pact through a Show & Tell -> Hive Mind. I would still have lost that game if I had put you on Omniscience.

Is there any reason you put a Dream Halls into play off S&T in game 3, then cast an Omniscience with it? Isn't Omniscience just strictly better?

Misdirecting a Thoughtseize isn't as sweet as it sounds at first glance, as your opponent still gets to choose which card to discard, but it's still a nice play.

[neoryujin]

@neoryujin:

I was your Round 5 Opponent last sunday =)


That's how we meet people nowadays. IRL & online :)



...
Is there any reason you put a Dream Halls into play off S&T in game 3, then cast an Omniscience with it? Isn't Omniscience just strictly better?


If I remember correctly, I didn't have Omniscience at that time. I couldn't quite remember how I got one afterwards, either through Ponder / Preordain / Brainstorm or just drew it the next turn. (Yes, it was hard putting Dream Halls to play, knowing that I couldn't play Emrakul with it. I was hoping for an Enter the Infinite or Omniscience, and I got the later)



Misdirecting a Thoughtseize isn't as sweet as it sounds at first glance, as your opponent still gets to choose which card to discard, but it's still a nice play.

Misdirecting Thoughtseize is a little mediocre, yes. (2-for-2, plus the bonus of protecting your own crucial spell, knowing your opponent's hand, and 2 life lost for your opponent. At least better than just Force of Willin' it). But Diverting Hymn of Tourach is sweet :) (3-for-1, even sweeter if your opponent Dark Ritualed first for the Tourach :D )

Until next time,
neoryujin

[Smea.gol.lum]

Hey guys,
I played the deck to a 122nd place at GP Strasbourg going 7-2 on day 1 without any byes and a disappointing 3-4 on day 2.
Tournament report will follow the next days.
I think there is much room for innovation in this deck. Gotta get some sleep now :P

[georgjorge]

Hey guys,
I played the deck to a 122nd place at GP Strasbourg going 7-2 on day 1 without any byes and a disappointing 3-4 on day 2.
Tournament report will follow the next days.
I think there is much room for innovation in this deck. Gotta get some sleep now :P

Congrats on making Day 2! Interested in hearing about your experience and the innovations you propose...

By the way, Omni Halls went 9-0 on Day 1 with three Cunning Wish: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpstr13/day2#1
I'm puzzled by the three Pact of Negation maindeck since using them to force through a combo that doesn't kill your opponent the same turn seems suicidal if you go for a fast Show. Or is it possible to counter the effect with Wish into Trickbind?

[Philipp2293]

Well, the deck kills the same turn with Cunning Wish + Ants kill ;)

[emidln]

Congrats on making Day 2! Interested in hearing about your experience and the innovations you propose...

By the way, Omni Halls went 9-0 on Day 1 with three Cunning Wish: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpstr13/day2#1
I'm puzzled by the three Pact of Negation maindeck since using them to force through a combo that doesn't kill your opponent the same turn seems suicidal if you go for a fast Show. Or is it possible to counter the effect with Wish into Trickbind?

You can also cast Show and Tells to put lands into play to pay for 1-2 pacts without even using the Wish->Trickbind options.

Wish->Research/Development->Lab Man seems like a better kill than Release the Ants (never fails due to opp having Emrakul). It's also mono-blue and thus doesn't require Omniscience (can be played off just Dream Halls). You still have Wish->Trickbind to beat anything that being instant-speed would give you.

Playing the 4th Cunning Wish and Firemind's Foresight, plus Intuition and a 2cc spell (Trickbind, Remand, Impulse, Lim-Dul's Vault are all excellent options) also lets you have more 2 card combos and more consistent 3 card combos. If you have R&D->Lab Man, you can cut Emrakul main freeing up a slot. This helps you setup the combo more consistently since now Dream Halls + Cunning Wish is an instant-kill.

[Lejay]

You can also cast Show and Tells to put lands into play to pay for 1-2 pacts without even using the Wish->Trickbind options.

Wish->Research/Development->Lab Man seems like a better kill than Release the Ants (never fails due to opp having Emrakul). It's also mono-blue and thus doesn't require Omniscience (can be played off just Dream Halls). You still have Wish->Trickbind to beat anything that being instant-speed would give you.

Playing the 4th Cunning Wish and Firemind's Foresight, plus Intuition and a 2cc spell (Trickbind, Remand, Impulse, Lim-Dul's Vault are all excellent options) also lets you have more 2 card combos and more consistent 3 card combos. If you have R&D->Lab Man, you can cut Emrakul main freeing up a slot. This helps you setup the combo more consistently since now Dream Halls + Cunning Wish is an instant-kill.

Ahah. You refrained yourself for too long so now everything is coming out at once.

[NesretepNoj]

I really like the Lab Man kill, and it was my primary win condition in my early testing, however, what I don't like about it is, that it turns an active Counterbalance into a real threat (the same problem is of course true for Release the Ants), which otherwise is seldom a problem. So far I've played the deck in four tournaments (all to prize finishes -- just for the record: one of them was a GPT scooping to Michael Bonde (Strasbourg T4) in the finals, as I couldn't attend the grand prix, because of my studies) and countless test matches on Cockatrice (at least 50), and playing only Emrakul (played three for a long time -- now I'm down to two) as my win condition, have never been a problem. If you think about it, there's really no main deck cards that stop you 100%. Gaddock Teeg can be beaten by Show and Tell (-> Omni) -> Emakul. Humility can be beaten by taking infinite turns and attacking with your 1/1 Emrakul. If they play Ensnaring Bridge and doesn't play Karakas and/or Academy Ruins, you can deck them be keeping passing the turn with your deck in hand and Emrakul garding the ground. As I don't play any Cunning Wish either, I get to have a much better/wider sideboard and is actually able to board in my bouncers (so that I don't have to pay four against Thalia.dec). As far as I see it, not running Lab Man/Research/Cunning Wish only cuts me off from running Pact of Negation (which I now realize, albeit risky, can be done by putting extra lands into play using Show and Tell post EtI). Instead of Pact I'm running three Flusterstorms. As far as I see it:

Flusterstorm:
- Great against discard
- Greatly improves combo mirror (especially storm)
- Acceptable against Dredge (countering Study/Looting/Breakthrough/Therapy)

Pact of Negation:
- Dead against a huge part of the field, especially game one (usually gets boarded out)
- Really good against RUG Delver and other blue tempo based strategies, not requiring an extra blue card
- Greater at protecting a hard cast Dream Halls, which is usually only problematic against Delver based decks

To me, this gives the notch to Flusterstorm.

As much as I would like to cut Emrakul because of its inherent clunkyness and dis-synergy with Dream Halls, I feel it is the best option and least demanding design space wise.

For reference, my latest list:
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
4 Brainstorm
3 Flusterstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Intuition
4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Force of Will
4 Omniscience
4 Enter the Infinite
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sideboard:
2 Divert
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Defense Grid
2 Snap
2 Wipe Away
2 Misdirection
1 Griselbrand

The card from Jean-Mary Accart's list I'm looking foreward to test is Sapphire Charm. Having a bounce spell that cycles and that you can play prior to Show and Tell seems really good. I think I will cut my Snaps for it, which otherwise has been my tech of choise because of their ability to untap stompy lands and thereby hardcast Dream Halls on turn three.

[emidln]

I've had access to Lejay's list for awhile now, and came to the conclusion that it needed a way to make Cunning Wish a more consistent kill. That said, the maindeck I propose has the following features (total is more than 60, as some cards are in more than one bucket):

// Enablers
4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls

// Make Spells Free
4 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience

// Wins on the spot if spells are free
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Cunning Wish

// Protection and Utility
3 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Trickbind
4 Cunning Wish

// Extra copies of all of the above
1 Intuition

// Cantrips
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain

// Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
6 Island
1 Underground Sea

To recap how to win the game, you need the following:

3UU - Dream Halls + Cunning Wish + 2 blue cards
3UU - Dream Halls + Enter the Infinite + 1 blue card
3UU - Dream Halls + Intuition + 2 blue cards
2U - Show and Tell and any of the above
2U - Show and Tell + Omniscience + Cunning Wish
2U - Show and Tell + Omniscience + Enter the Infinite
2U - Show and Tell + Omniscience + Intuition
2U - Show and Tell + Omniscience + cantrips (not 100%, but very high)
2U - Show and Tell + Omniscience + Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (pretty high since you get the bonus turn)
2U - Show and Tell + Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (not guaranteed)

This means you're playing either a 2 card or 3 card combo, depending on which Enabler you happen to draw and how much mana you can spend on it. You might have noticed that Cunning Wish == Intuition == Enter the Infinite and Dream Halls == Omniscience. This is very much on purpose, as redundancy combined with cantrips is a reliable way to beat hand disruption while guaranteeing that you can kill aggro players in time.

You might have noticed that I'm assuming Cunning Wish is just win the game on the spot, 100%. Why do I do that? The answer is Firemind's Foresight. Look it up if you have to. It's an instant that finds you 3 more instants, at 3cmc, 2cmc, and 1cmc and puts them into your hand. Practically, this means that Dream Halls + Wish + 2 cards plays out like this:

cast Wish pitching the first card, finding Firemind's Foresight (FF)
cast FF pitching the second card, finding Intuition, Trickbind, Brainstorm
cast Intuition pitching Trickbind, finding 3x Enter the Infinite, getting 1 EtE
cast EtE pitching Brainstorm drawing your deck

If you're careful, you'll also notice that I don't play a dedicated win condition in the maindeck. The reason for this is that I hate drawing win conditions. Hate for SnT'd Emrakul is everywhere. I don't believe that Emrakul is a reliable win condition in g1 situations by itself, and it's the wost business card you can play off Omniscience. I'd argue that, at most, you want 1, and that it belongs in the sideboard unless you think you're facing a lot of Gaddock Teeg. The reason for this being in the sideboard is to diversify yourself against hate (in particular, Slaughter Games or Surgical Extraction type effects on Cunning Wish).

Why keep Emrakul if you expect a lot of Teeg? Lejay's list has a really innovative feature in Eladamri's Call if you have Emrakul in your deck. Having Omniscience in play lets you cast a 3cmc spell, Cunning Wish, for a 2cmc spell, Eladamri's Call, for a 15cmc creature, Emrakul, which you then cast, Time Walk, and attack with. Nice 2/2 amirite? That said, unless you're facing an absolute ton of Gaddock Teeg, I don't believe maindeck Emrakul is worthwhile. You can still kill it with Cunning Wish and win normally, but this will cost you an extra card vs the Emrakul method.

I've avoided giving my sideboard, but this is where I am with the maindeck I posted above:

// Tutor stuff
1 Intuition
1 Firemind's Foresight

// Ends the Game
1 Research / Development
1 Laboratory Maniac

// Protection
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Trickbind

// Removal
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth
1 Slaughter Pact

Additionally, I'd play the following that I consider meta-specific:

4 Thoughtseize
1 Surgical Extraction

I'll explain these:

Intuition there to cycle Wish into Show and Tell, Dream Halls, or Omniscience. It'll rarely be wished for to get anything else unless your situation changes between the time that you wish for it and when you cast it.

Firemind's Foresight is an addition of Lejay's list. Combined with Intuition and a 2cmc (Trickbind currently) in the sideboard, you get to use Cunning Wish as a kill spell whenever you want. A minor upside to FF vs Intuition when comboing with Omniscience is that a single Wish provides you with both Enter the Infinite and Trickbind, which means a Wish cast with a nasty Enters the Battlefield trigger on the stack (say Oblivion Ring or Detention Sphere), is still going to kill your opponent. I believe making Cunning Wish into a legitimate kill spell is important for the deck's speed against aggro as well as for is resilency against discard.

R&D + Lab Man is my kill of choice because it is compact, extremely difficult to disrupt, and can played soley off Dream Halls. With this kill, you don't actually need to resolve Omniscience at all, as everything in your deck is blue, and the only non-blue spell, Thoughtseize (that you might want to stack in your Research pile), can be cast with a 2nd Thoughtseize stacked via Dream Halls. It doesn't target, you can use spare Brainstorms to play around anything that you can't bounce/counter (which, btw, is basically everything since you'll have a handful of counters, access to up to 2 Trickbind, and can bounce a couple things as well). But just in case, they go to kill Lab Man after you've Thoughtseized them and you can't counter the kill spell, just win the game in response. The reason for R&D is that I don't want to litter my maindeck with dead draws and things I can't pitch to Force of Will if I need to.

Force of Will is in the sideboard because I noticed a non-zero amount of games where I needed Cunning Wish + 2U to counter a critical spell. I replaced the 4th Force of Will in the maindeck with Flusterstorm, allowing me situational access to either Force of Will or Pact of Negation. Against other combo decks, Force of Will is likely to come in. Against other control decks, Pact of Negation is likely to come in. Pact is there because it's just the most efficient way to protect yourself when comboing.

Trickbind exists to handle the possibility of your Show and Tell generating side-effects like Detention Sphere from UW. It allows you to combo holding a Cunning Wish, knowing that you can kill them anyway. Wishing for it pre-combo in the pseudo-mirror is also a way of limiting the effects of Griselbrand coming into play off your SnT (they get, at most, 7 cards, and often 0 if they don't recognize that they cannot pass priority before losing 7 life the second time). There are other corner cases for Trickbind, the most notable of which are countering a Pact trigger and letting you combo through an active Counterbalance.

Wipe Away is the best single bounce spell ever printed. It's relatively efficient, and extremely difficult to stop.

Slaughter Pact is an extremely efficient solution to hatebears and is a card that I rarely side in. Often, Echoing Truth and Wipe Away come in while Slaughter Pact stays in the sideboard to guarantee that I have easy access to a removal spell for no more than 3 mana.

Echoing Truth isn't strictly required, but I have liked it the best as an additional removal spell. Bouncing multiple things doesn't really happen too often, but it is a potential solution to a boatload of tokens, and is your cheapest way of removing something that isn't a creature.

In the slots remaining, I'm playing a mix of Thoughtseize and Surgical Extraction. I'm playing disruption because I believe combo is common enough that we need an edge. I'm playing Thoughtseize because it's passable against control, passable against aggro, and excellent against combo decks. It's often the best card you can draw against the Show and Tell mirror, since it can function on offense or defense. The lifeloss does not matter to the deck, since you only need a single life to combo out.

Surgical Extraction is being played because we need an edge against the graveyard decks. When we side up to 4 Force of Will, 4 Thoughtseize, 1 Flusterstorm, we just begin to get comfortable against Reanimator. Having Surgical Extractions helps gain an edge, while Surgical does extra work in various other matchups buying lots of time, providing information, or making sure the opponent cannot interact (taking Therapy vs Dredge).

These last slots fight with various other cards, most notably Leyline of Sanctity. I firmly believe that by constructing the maindeck in its most redundant form is guard enough against the effects of spot discard and mass discard. I also believe that a full set of Thoughtseize can win me more games than a 3-4 Leyline of Sanctity over the course of any given event. If you disagree, swap them out.

Some other cards to consider for the sideboard:

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as an alternate win you could side in.
Leyline of the Void/Grafdigger's Cage as slightly less flexible graveyard hate.
More bounce/removal
Swamp (to make the full set of Thoughtseize and option against a Wasteland deck, not that you ever really need to side in the full set against Wasteland decks).
Divert (it's a compromise between Leyline of Sanctity hitting discard while being a Spell Pierce when you need to combo off).

About Counterbalance. You might be wonder, doesn't Counterbalance @ 3 stop your deck? The answer to that is not usually, due to maindeck Trickbind and Cunning Wish (for Wipe Away) paired with the ability to stack a second Trickbind in your Research pile to protect Lab Man). If you feel like you need more certainty, you can play a sideboard Abrupt Decay, then play Wish (let it get countered), Wish (for Abrupt Decay) + Trickbind on CB trigger.

An observation I've made to a lot of people is that this deck shouldn't be compared to Sneak and Show. Sneak and Show is a lot more conditional in how it wins and is open to a vastly greater amount of hate. The deck this is most similar to is actually Hive Mind. The difference is that Dream Halls/Omni is a lot more redundant and plays vastly fewer dead cards. When the deck switches gear into kill mode, like Hive Mind, it's impossible to stop. Like Hive Mind it's somewhere between a 2 and 3 card combo. Like Hive Mind, it's mono blue (or nearly so) with an impervious manabase and a ridiculous set of manipulation and protection spells available to it.

Run it through your gauntlet. The deck is absolutely ridiculous, to the point that I'm no longer playing Doomsday in legacy. This is what I believe to be the strongest deck in legacy at the moment.

[menace13]

Best deck in format
I felt like Dream Halls+Omni was going to be the best deck soon as someone put together a good list, ever since Enter Infinite was spoiled. Cunning Wish is what gives this deck the edge to distinguish itself from the other SnT decks by allowing for instant speed kills in response to hate cards. Firemind's Foresight is a sick find/inclusion as it further pushes what the deck can do at instant speed. I felt Lejay did not play right amount of Cunning Wishes after seeing his list. The varied kills that all skip the red zone, and ignore life totals, at instant speed is what separates this from anything else in the format.

Your version lacks a instant response kill.

Release the Ants + Card to stack top deck for clash, is the only instant speed win con the deck has. Which is easier than it sounds by using manipulation to stack top deck. Then the only cards in hand needed at that point are Cunning Wish x2. This further strengthens your SnT, because now you fear nothing, and you dont have to get Trickbind. It also dodges the need to Enter Infinite. Now the lines i described arent always practical, but they will come up. Aside from using the old Beacon+Cure instants from Dream Halls decks- which would only work off Omni, although they do end the game on 2 Wishes no matter what the opponent put into play off SnT.

Also, get on Modo and return my storm cards you've had since 2011, fukin deadbeat. Thanks.

Edit: The clash card could be Worldly Tutor to stack emrakul on top. If the Main deck had Worldly Tutor+ Ants it could win off a single Wish/or Intuition into Wish by grabbing Firemind's into Worldly+Ants.

[neoryujin]

...
By the way, Omni Halls went 9-0 on Day 1 with three Cunning Wish: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpstr13/day2#1
...


I took a look at the list and wondered, whether Release the Ants was really necessary. Omniscience / Dream Halls & Enter the Infinite, with at least two Emrakuls in the deck have a built-in stormcount generator (play Enter the Infinite, play Emrakul, play another Emrakul, shuflle both from the graveyard to the library (along with the Enter the Infinite in the graveyard), play another Enter the Infinite, get both Emrakul back (and the earlier shufled Enter the infinite), play them again, repeat. Get 745,339 extra turns as a bonus achievement), that you just need one Cunning Wish for a Brain Freeze to win. Should they have Emrakul in their deck too, then Burning Wish for a Grapeshot or Tendrils of Agony. No need for top deck manipulation whatsoever (for Release the Ants).

[Esper3k]

About Counterbalance. You might be wonder, doesn't Counterbalance @ 3 stop your deck? The answer to that is not usually, due to maindeck Trickbind and Cunning Wish (for Wipe Away) paired with the ability to stack a second Trickbind in your Research pile to protect Lab Man). If you feel like you need more certainty, you can play a sideboard Abrupt Decay, then play Wish (let it get countered), Wish (for Abrupt Decay) + Trickbind on CB trigger.

Very cool post, man! Regarding sideboarding, are you typically boarding out Preordains then for things like Thoughtseize? It feels like everything else in the main is so important to the combo that it's hard to cut them?

[Perman]

I think the main reason for Release the Ants is the lack of using the graveyard. When you do the Emrakul trick, an Extirpate will remove your kill.
Also, the Release the Ants need no manipulation since you leave Emrakul as the 1 card in library from Enter the Infinite.

[menace13]

I think the main reason for Release the Ants is the lack of using the graveyard. When you do the Emrakul trick, an Extirpate will remove your kill.
Also, the Release the Ants need no manipulation since you leave Emrakul as the 1 card in library from Enter the Infinite.
The original Omni kill also dodged Extirpate or the like. The main benefit I can see is off of SnT, the deck is capable of winning when the opponent Shows in O-Ring/Venser/AoDespair. By not needing Enter the Infinite, it can also win through Teeg.

[Kuma]

Why is everyone so opposed to the Laboratory Maniac kill? It takes up two sideboard slots and doesn't lose to anything except split second cards. If spilt second miraculously becomes a major problem, you add a Silence to the board and then the combo loses to absolutely nothing. Release the Ants loses to an opponent flipping Emrakul off the clash and it forces you to run an Emrakul in the main.

My buddy, Yawg, and I have been playing this locally to great success. Here's what we've been running:

4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Cunning Wish

3 Force of Will
4 Pact of Negation

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Intuition

4 Ancient Tomb
5 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest

SB:

1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Intuition
1 Force of Will
1 Research // Development
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Trickbind
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Leyline of Sanctity

I don't think maindeck Trickbind is as strong as Lim-Dul's Vault. Yes, it's helpful against Counterbalance on three game one, but let's examine the situation. If they have Counterbalance on three game one, you can't win. However, your only path to victory with Trickbind in the main is to cast Dream Halls -> Enter the Infinite -> Omniscience -> Cunning Wish + Trickbind -> Surgical Extraction to mess up the top of their deck -> Cunning Wish -> Research // Development (hoping that they can't put a two on top for it) -> Laboratory Maniac. That seems like a very specific situation and there are a lot of things that can go wrong. Putting Cryptic Command in the board makes this line of play better as you can bounce the Counterbalance, but this is still a very specific situation. Personally, I'm fine with losing game one to Counterbalance at three and then bringing in the Trickbind. If the deck were a big enough problem, I'd run a second Trickbind so I could wish for it too.

Lim-Dul's Vault turns terrible situations into amazing ones and is much more effective than cantrips at finding specific pieces. It's very easy to find two things you need with a single Lim-Dul's Vault, and with Brainstorm, the card is practically double or triple Demonic Tutor. It adds amazing consistency and is incredible against discard as you can hide the entire combo from your opponents. Goldfish with it. I know you'll love it.

[NesretepNoj]

@emidln: Your list seems really solid, and it might be worth sacrificing strength vs. Counterbalance for not running main deck win conditions and gaining access to Pact of Negation. My only concern regarding you list, is your ability to find Show and Tell (which more Intuitions fixes). Kuma has some semi-solution to this by running a couple of LDV's, but I'm not sure sacrificing mana base stability and running a card disadvantage card is worth it.

[emidln]

An instant-speed kill that only works with Omniscience plus setup and not against Emrakul seems pretty sketchy. If you really want an instant speed kill, swap Trickbind for Twincast and do the following when you have Omni + Wish:

Wish for FF
FF for Wish, Twincast, Brainstorm
Wish + Twincast to get Beacon + False Cure
False Cure
Beacon)

This require no setup (just Omni in play and Wish in hand) and always kills. (Btw, this kill was suggested to me and not my own; credit either goobafish or GerryT for it).

Twincast isn't a card that I'd personally play over Trickbind, Remand, or Lim-Dul's Vault, but maybe you really think you need an instant-speed kill.

If the idea is to kill through Teeg reliably, you can play an Emrakul main like Lejay and then wish for Eladamri's Call (for Emrakul). My solution to opp Showing teeg is needing a 2nd card (either 2nd Wish, Enter, Intuition, or a cantrip) so my Wish can go get Slaughter Pact.

Finding Show and Tell isn't a super high priority for me. In almost every matchup, casting Dream Halls off lands is fine. If you find SnT, it's fine, but there are a few matchups where it's a burden (SnT mirror, Reanimator, and Belcher all come to mind) and you need to find and cast Dream Halls (or Thoughtseize before SnT) anyway. That said, LDV can address that, as could Personal Tutor. I didn't like Personal Tutor, and haven't had an opportunity to test LDV a great deal.

[Kagehisa]

I like 4 Thoughtseize in emidln's sideboard a lot : it can prevent Krosan Grip from hitting Dream Halls because ( if the deck become #1 ) Krosan Grip will appear. Thoughtseize is not needed game one, I think, because Krosan Grip is a SB card ( plus Show and Tell an Emrakul solve Krosan Grip ).

[menace13]

An instant-speed kill that only works with Omniscience plus setup and not against Emrakul seems pretty sketchy. If you really want an instant speed kill, swap Trickbind for Twincast and do the following when you have Omni + Wish:

Wish for FF
FF for Wish, Twincast, Brainstorm
Wish + Twincast to get Beacon + False Cure
False Cure
Beacon)

This require no setup (just Omni in play and Wish in hand) and always kills. (Btw, this kill was suggested to me and not my own; credit either goobafish or GerryT for it).

Twincast isn't a card that I'd personally play over Trickbind, Remand, or Lim-Dul's Vault, but maybe you really think you need an instant-speed kill.

If the idea is to kill through Teeg reliably, you can play an Emrakul main like Lejay and then wish for Eladamri's Call (for Emrakul). My solution to opp Showing teeg is needing a 2nd card (either 2nd Wish, Enter, Intuition, or a cantrip) so my Wish can go get Slaughter Pact.

Finding Show and Tell isn't a super high priority for me. In almost every matchup, casting Dream Halls off lands is fine. If you find SnT, it's fine, but there are a few matchups where it's a burden (SnT mirror, Reanimator, and Belcher all come to mind) and you need to find and cast Dream Halls (or Thoughtseize before SnT) anyway. That said, LDV can address that, as could Personal Tutor. I didn't like Personal Tutor, and haven't had an opportunity to test LDV a great deal.
Had some more time to think about the deck. Mind you this is all theory craft as I haven't tested/played the deck. Except the part of you never returning my modo cards, that actually happened, anyway.

Including Trickbind/Stifle into the main deck could potentially stop any of the Dream/Omni destruction/bounce ETB effects. By CWish->FF->Stifle/Trickbind+Intuition. Intuition would then set up Enter Infinite after you Stifle or Trickbind the hate. I can't really think of any reason to need an instant speed kill over the former line of play.

[georgjorge]

Finding Show and Tell isn't a super high priority for me. In almost every matchup, casting Dream Halls off lands is fine. If you find SnT, it's fine, but there are a few matchups where it's a burden (SnT mirror, Reanimator, and Belcher all come to mind) and you need to find and cast Dream Halls (or Thoughtseize before SnT) anyway.


I really like the elegant solution of no "dead" winconditions in the maindeck at all. However, the difference between 3cc Show and Tell and 5cc Dream Halls is rather big in Legacy, and in my (limited) testing with Omni Halls hardcasting Dream Halls was too slow to matter a number of times - not only because you can get killed before you are able to do it, but because your opponent will have the opportunity to draw into and cast more disruption (and hand disruption like Hymn or Liliana matters even more if you have to pitch additional cards with Dream Halls to go off), and taxing counters like Spell Pierce and Daze suddenly become a lot more relevant. I feel that Omni-Wish has a lot of raw power, but is a bit lacking when it comes to speed. Maybe replacing two or three Preordains with Petals/Stompy lands might help...?

Another way to speed up the deck would be to play Intuition as a 4-of instead of Cunning Wish, as Intuition into Show might be fast enough but Wish into Intuition into Show likely won't be, and instead going for Wish - FF - Intuition you can go directly for Intuition when you have Omni or Halls out. Something like -4 Cunning Wish -1 Trickbind -1 Flusterstorm -1 Preordain +3 Intuition +1 Force + 1 Pact +2 Lab Man. Disadvantages are two dead maindeck cards, less utility answers and vulnerability to graveyard hate, advantages are that it's faster and you save a lot of sideboard space.

[Smea.gol.lum]

First of all: big pros for Emidln for the many cute innovations like Firemind's Foresight!!
I am really tempted to play the mono-blue version in the next tournament.

I've posted a tournament report about my experiences in Strasbourg.
You can find it here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25885-122nd-at-GP-Strasbourg-with-Omnitell

Hope you 'll enjoy!

EDIT: I've just realised that Lim-Dûl's Vault instead of Trickbind is enough to fight Comes-into-play effects.
However, it is only reliable if you've got some life points you can play with:
Show and Tell-->Omniscience,Oblivion Ring/Venser/etc-->in resp: Cunning Wish-->Firemind's Foresight-->Intuition, LDV, Brainstorm--> LDV (putting Cunning Wish on top)--> Brainstorm-->Cunning Wish-->Trickbind-->Intuition-->Enter the Infinite-->etc

[dcosiem]

Hey guys, I don't know if anyone saw this list, but it looks intriguing. Maindeck

Creature [3]
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Progenitus
Instant [9]
4 Brainstorm
1 Wipe Away
4 Force of Will
Sorcery [19]
2 Preordain
2 Enter the Infinite
4 Ponder
2 Temporal Mastery
1 Personal Tutor
4 Show and Tell
2 Conflux
1 Time Stretch
1 Army of the Damned
Enchantment [7]
3 Dream Halls
3 Omniscience
1 Form of the Dragon
Artifact [4]
4 Lotus Petal
Land [19]
5 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

61 Cards total Complete deck

Sideboard

3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stifle
2 Wipe Away
1 Cyclonic Rift

15 Cards total

http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/50182

It won first place out of 129 people.

[georgjorge]

Hey guys, I don't know if anyone saw this list, but it looks intriguing. Maindeck

Creature [3]
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Progenitus
Instant [9]
4 Brainstorm
1 Wipe Away
4 Force of Will
Sorcery [19]
2 Preordain
2 Enter the Infinite
4 Ponder
2 Temporal Mastery
1 Personal Tutor
4 Show and Tell
2 Conflux
1 Time Stretch
1 Army of the Damned
Enchantment [7]
3 Dream Halls
3 Omniscience
1 Form of the Dragon
Artifact [4]
4 Lotus Petal
Land [19]
5 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

61 Cards total Complete deck

Sideboard

3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stifle
2 Wipe Away
1 Cyclonic Rift

15 Cards total

http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/50182

It won first place out of 129 people.


Hmm, there are 15 cards in the deck that depend on Show and Tell/Omniscience, seems pretty high. And the Omni/Show targets look rather random and sometimes not even that powerful (Magister Sphinx? Form of the Dragon?). I also have no idea why you would play Time Stretch or Conflux when you haven't even maxed out on Enter the Infinite.

On the other hand, once you go off with Enter the Infinite you can REALLY overpower your opponent with 13 Zombies + Emrakul + Progenitus + a few extra turns :wink:.

[Smea.gol.lum]

What I don't like about the mono-blue lists without win-cons in the main deck is the inability to win through a resolved Gaddock Teeg.
While the mono-blue lists have to wish for a bounce spell and cast another game winning spell, the U/R versions can win immediately via Bruning Wish-->Time of Need-->Emrakul.

I'd propose to play 1 Emrakul maindeck and 1 Eladamri's Call in the SB or a red splash for Burning Wish if you don't want to play Emrakul in the main deck.

Here's the list I am toying with at the moment:

3 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
4 Cunning Wish
4 Burning Wish
3 Enter the Infinite

3 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Trickbind
1 Intuition

3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
4 Island

SB:
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Intuition
1 Trickbind
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Wipe Away
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Pyroclasm
1 Living Wish
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Show and Tell
1 Release the Ants
1 REB

In this version you play 7 Show and Tells and 7 Enter the Infinite, that means 11 spells that win the game off Dream Halls/Omniscience (Burning Wish, EtI, Cunning Wish)
It can win through Gaddock Teeg via (Cunning Wish-->Intuition-->)Burning Wish-->Living Wish-->Emrakul) off Omniscience and through Comes-into play effects via (Burning Wish-->Merchant Scroll in the pre-combo turn -->)Cunning Wish-->FF-->Trickbind, Brainstorm,Intuition-->EtI.

I'm not sure yet, if the Burning Wishes are too clunky, so I would like you to test also and give me some feedback ;)

[Lejay]

Maybe try personal tutor so that you could go personal-->Burning Wish-->Merchant Scroll in the pre-combo turn -->)Cunning Wish-->FF-->Trickbind, Brainstorm,Intuition-->EtI.

[Karhumies]

... I'd propose to play 1 Emrakul maindeck and 1 Eladamri's Call in the SB ...

After a resolved Omniscience, you could go

Burning Wish -> Merchant Scroll -> Cunning Wish -> Firemind's Foresight -> Cunning Wish, Release the Ants, Brainstorm
Cunning Wish -> Eladamri's Call -> Emrakul
Brainstorm -> Emrakul on top
Release the Ants, Release the Ants, Release the Ants...

Now that's an elaborate win condition!

Works around
- Humility (compare to Emrakul)
- Stifle/Trickbind (compare to Grapeshot)
- Cephalid Coliseum (compare to Enter the Infinite)
- Peacekeeper/Ensnaring Bridge/Blazing Archon (compare to Emrakul)

Stopped by
- Leyline of Sanctity (compare to Emrakul)
- Extirpate/Surgical Extraction -> 1st Cunning Wish (compare to Burning Wish-> Time of Need/Living Wish-> Emrakul)

[Smea.gol.lum]

After a resolved Omniscience, you could go

Burning Wish -> Merchant Scroll -> Cunning Wish -> Firemind's Foresight -> Cunning Wish, Release the Ants, Brainstorm
Cunning Wish -> Eladamri's Call -> Emrakul
Brainstorm -> Emrakul on top
Release the Ants, Release the Ants, Release the Ants...


Wow, I didn't read the card carefully enough, I always thought the revealed card would be put on the bottom of my library upon resolution. That changes a lot and I think you should always play 1 Release the Ants in your sideboard as an out for Gaddock Teeg. An Omniscience on the top of your library is just as good as Emrakul on top. That also makes the inclusion of Burning Wish superfluous somehow.




Stopped by
- Leyline of Sanctity (compare to Emrakul)
- Extirpate/Surgical Extraction -> 1st Cunning Wish (compare to Burning Wish-> Time of Need/Living Wish-> Emrakul)

Cunning Wish can't be extracted as it is exiled after resolution.

[downtoonelife]

Just got home from a local tournament with 79 players. I piloted OmniTell (Splash Black, No Dream Halls) build. Ended 3rd/4th place.

Match Up 5W-2L:
R1 2-1 vs Sneak Show
R2 2-1 vs UR Delver
R3 2-0 vs 12 Post
R4 1-2 vs Maverick
R5 2-1 vs Nic Fit
R6 1-2 vs ANT
R7 2-1 vs 4c Deathrite
Ended 8th seed after the swiss
Quarterfinals: 2-0 vs RUG Delver
Semi-Finals: Against a teammate, playing Esper Stoneblade. We decided to split the prize whatever he gets at the finals and what I'll get at the 3rd-4th bracket. We decided to have him fight against Shardless BUG. But we still had a friendly match which I lost. Unfortunately, Shardless BUG won the tournament.

[blindspotxxx]

Just got home from a local tournament with 79 players. I piloted OmniTell (Splash Black, No Dream Halls) build. Ended 3rd/4th place.

Match Up 5W-2L:
R1 2-1 vs Sneak Show
R2 2-1 vs UR Delver
R3 2-0 vs 12 Post
R4 1-2 vs Maverick
R5 2-1 vs Nic Fit
R6 1-2 vs ANT
R7 2-1 vs 4c Deathrite
Ended 8th seed after the swiss
Quarterfinals: 2-0 vs RUG Delver
Semi-Finals: Against a teammate, playing Esper Stoneblade. We decided to split the prize whatever he gets at the finals and what I'll get at the 3rd-4th bracket. We decided to have him fight against Shardless BUG. But we still had a friendly match which I lost. Unfortunately, Shardless BUG won the tournament.

Grats man :) I was the Sneak Show player at the top 8. Both of our teams should have let the combo players fight Shardless lol it would have had a better matchup lol See you at Legacy Wars

[emidln]

Looks like a Mono Blue build featuring 4 Omni, 4 Dream Halls, 4 Cunning Wish with R&D->Lab Maniac as the kill and Firemind's Foresight to supplement Enter the Infinite won the Bazaar of Moxen Legacy Main Event piloted by Nicolas Goldberg. Congrats to Nicolas, and I hope to see the report somewhere.


"OmniManiac" by Nicolas Goldberg
==========================
2 Scalding Tarn
7 Island
2 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

4 Show and Tell
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
3 Force of Will
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
3 Pact of Negation
1 Impulse
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
4 Omniscience
4 Dream Halls


SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Intuition
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Research//Development
SB: 1 Laboratory Maniac
SB: 1 Firemind’s Foresight
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Force Of Will

[dcosiem]

Looks like a Mono Blue build featuring 4 Omni, 4 Dream Halls, 4 Cunning Wish with R&D->Lab Maniac as the kill and Firemind's Foresight to supplement Enter the Infinite won the Bazaar of Moxen Legacy Main Event piloted by Nicolas Goldberg. Congrats to Nicolas, and I hope to see the report somewhere.


"OmniManiac" by Nicolas Goldberg
==========================
2 Scalding Tarn
7 Island
2 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

4 Show and Tell
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
3 Force of Will
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
3 Pact of Negation
1 Impulse
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
4 Omniscience
4 Dream Halls


SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Intuition
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Research//Development
SB: 1 Laboratory Maniac
SB: 1 Firemind’s Foresight
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Force Of Will

I don't quite understand how this deck wins because Pact of Negation just seems so bad if you don't have enough mana to pay for pact at your next upkeep step. Also, this means you have to have 5 mana on board, which means how many turns are you already into? 4? 5? In legacy, it's just too much loss of impact because generally, you want to be fast. If you look at the meta in that tournament, only 2 combo decks made to top 8, 4 decks were control and 2 were aggro. Whatever. : P

[emidln]

I don't quite understand how this deck wins because Pact of Negation just seems so bad if you don't have enough mana to pay for pact at your next upkeep step. Also, this means you have to have 5 mana on board, which means how many turns are you already into? 4? 5? In legacy, it's just too much loss of impact because generally, you want to be fast. If you look at the meta in that tournament, only 2 combo decks made to top 8, 4 decks were control and 2 were aggro. Whatever. : P

There isn't a next turn when you're casting Pact of Negation. You just kill them that turn via Wish (for R&D), Research (for Maniac), ETI/Ponder/Preordain to draw your deck, Lab Man, Draw spell

[Albert]

Is 1 Abrupt decay in the opponent's hand with the mana to cast it GG?

Edit: Solved by Philip :tongue:

[Philipp2293]

I don't really see a problem. Usually you have drawn your whole library. Then you cast Ponder/Preordain. In case a Decay is pointed at Lab Man, just respond by brainstorm, which you still have in hand if brainstorms were left in you library pre EtI.

[NesretepNoj]

As I player of the deck I don't want to spoiler a massive weakness we have, but to find a solution I want to share it here.

1 Abrupt decay in the opponent's hand with the mana to cast it is GG!

We cannot get rid of it from the opponents hand and we cannot counter it when it destroys the labman...
I am sure Nicolas won more than one game without the opponent knowing this. If it is known this deck is as easy to hate as it can be...
Luckily we can change the kill condition, but with only the labman (as most recent list run) we are doomed.

Did I miss something?
I will continue playing the deck, but will have to rethink (go back to ants) the kill con.

Abrupt Decay is only uncounterable. It does not have split second. When you have shuffled Lab. Man into your deck, play two Ponders, play the Lab. Man and play a third Ponder. If they play Decay, just respond by playing Brainstorm. This line of play saves your Brainstorms in case they have multiples. My second line of defense, in case my brainstorms should be surg. extracted, is Misdirection in my SB.

EDIT: A third option, in case your brainstorms are extracted and you don't play Misdirection, is to respond with Cunning Wish and fetch a bounce spell. What you do then, is bouncing you Lab. Man in response to Decay and counter your own draw spell. Afterward just replay Lab. Man and try again.

[Adan]

So what's the best killing option this deck has right now? As far as I got it, it's as follows:

Release the Ants -> might brick if SneakShow is all over the place and people flip Emrakuls themselves to the Clash

R&D/Labmaniac -> can't win against a Gaddok Teeg if you don't have 2 CWish

Eladamri's Call into Emrakul -> can be tricky if you have slammed a few Pacts here and there (one can be dodged by CWish -> Trickbind)

And I seriously need someone to help me out with that Firemind's Foresight, I absolutely fail to see that card's purpose. If you land Omniscience and just want to get the EtI, that Intuition in the SB is absolutely enough, isn't it?

[NesretepNoj]

So what's the best killing option this deck has right now? As far as I got it, it's as follows:

Release the Ants -> might brick if SneakShow is all over the place and people flip Emrakuls themselves to the Clash

R&D/Labmaniac -> can't win against a Gaddok Teeg if you don't have 2 CWish

Eladamri's Call into Emrakul -> can be tricky if you have slammed a few Pacts here and there (one can be dodged by CWish -> Trickbind)

And I seriously need someone to help me out with that Firemind's Foresight, I absolutely fail to see that card's purpose. If you land Omniscience and just want to get the EtI, that Intuition in the SB is absolutely enough, isn't it?

Well, neither Release the Ants nor Lab. Man works without resolving EtI, so you have to get rid of Teeg in both cases.
Foresight is needed to make Cunning Wish a better kill, when it is paired with Dream Halls. With Foresight in the board Dream Halls + Cunning Wish and two blue cards is a kill: C. Wish > FF; FF > Intuition, 2CMC of choice, Brainstorm; Intuition > 3xEtI = Win. It also becomes good post board against decks with o-ring effects, if you board in the Trickbind. If you got Show and Tell, Omni, and C. Wish in hand, you can respond to their trigger with C. Wish > FF > Intuition, Trickbind and Brainstorm and just win.

EDIT: You probably read emidln's post: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24583-Deck-Omniscience&p=718270&viewfull=1#post718270

[Adan]

Well, neither Release the Ants nor Lab. Man works without resolving EtI, so you have to get rid of Teeg in both cases.

Yeah, that was pretty obvious to me, that's why I guess it's good to have Eladamri's Call so you can simply smash the Opp with a single CWish under Omniscience.


Foresight is needed to make Cunning Wish a better kill, when it is paired with Dream Halls. With Foresight in the board Dream Halls + Cunning Wish and two blue cards is a kill: C. Wish > FF; FF > Intuition, 2CMC of choice, Brainstorm; Intuition > 3xEtI = Win. It also becomes good post board against decks with o-ring effects, if you board in the Trickbind. If you got Show and Tell, Omni, and C. Wish in hand, you can respond to their trigger with C. Wish > FF > Intuition, Trickbind and Brainstorm and just win.

EDIT: You probably read emidln's post: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24583-Deck-Omniscience&p=718270&viewfull=1#post718270

I see, that makes perfectly sense to me. Thanks!

Mad props to emidln, that post is absolutely wicked.

[HoneyT]

This deck is so stupid. It's even got ME playing unfair now. Haha I took third at a local event today with the following list:

// Deck: Going Infinite (60)

// Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
7 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn

// Creatures

// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
4 Dream Halls
4 Enter the Infinite
1 Flusterstorm
3 Force of Will
1 Intuition
4 Omniscience
2 Pact of Negation
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
1 Trickbind

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Divert
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Intuition
SB: 1 Laboratory Maniac
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 1 Research // Development (Research)
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Wipe Away

Played against:

Esperblade 2-0
TES 0-2
Burn 2-0
Reanimator 1-2
Imperial Painter 2-0

[rxavage]

Is this deck the mutts nutts or what? Why Trick Bind over Stifle? Is it solely based on cmc for Firemind's Foresight?

[beebles]

Is this deck the mutts nutts or what? Why Trick Bind over Stifle? Is it solely based on cmc for Firemind's Foresight?

I think the idea is you wish for it to protect Omniscience from Oblivion rings/detention spheres/pridemages. With omni out the extra cost is not a concern.

[NesretepNoj]

Why Trick Bind over Stifle? Is it solely based on cmc for Firemind's Foresight?

Yes and no. The primary reason is because of its cmc, however it does have other purposes. To combat Counterbalance, I board in Lab Man and Trickbind. When EtI resolves, I play Cunning Wish. I they don't flip a three cost, I wipe away the CB. If they do, I just play out Lab Man and Trickbind the trigger. If they try to counter my draw spells by flipping top, I just respond by playing Brainstorm (or C. Wish --> Wipe Away). Aside from Counterbalance and its cmc, it also has its uses against Griselbrand and Sneak Attack.

[Ish]

Is this deck the mutts nutts or what? Why Trick Bind over Stifle? Is it solely based on cmc for Firemind's Foresight?

(First Post)

I've been playing all variations of show and tell for several years now... I wouldn't consider myself and expert but I have come to my conclusions of the various builds.

This deck is a powerful combo deck... But it has its pluses and minuses like any other deck. It's not the nutts or mutts as you put it IMO.

Sneak attack brews are faster, storm (ANT, TES) are faster... UB omni had more disruption and resiliency... What I have found is that this deck is the most consistent of the SnT builds and is alot of fun. It comes down to your play style and meta. It is also much harder to hate against. With access to ants, lab maniac, and emrakul you have very different win cons.

From my experience: Stoneblade and Blue tempo decks are still be a problem and you fight them with counters as normal... Pact is very powerful here. But in the end its always in their favor.

You are faster than most other decks, and if you can stick a Leyline Game 2 against disruption you're in a good spot.

[NesretepNoj]

[..] and if you can stick a Leyline Game 2 against disruption you're in a good spot.

This is actually an issue I would like to put up to debate. I don't find leylines necessary. Back in the day, when you only played four Dream Halls and you could pitch extra leylines to Conflux, they where arguably okay, but now that we have so much redundancy, I really find them to be lackluster. We have eight halls/omnis and paired with omni upwards of 19 "go of spells" (4x EtI, 4x Wish, 4x Ponder, 4x Brainstorm, 2x Impulse, 1x Intuition). I've won fare more games with omni+ponder, than I've lost. My point is, that even if you get your leyline down, you've still used a card. If they are playing BUG, they still have counterspells you have to fight through and they can brainstorm their discard away. Against non-blue discard, you are still mosty trading one for one, except they are losing tempo and you are not. I know, I know double hymn hurts and sometimes they go turn one discard, turn two creature, turn three double discard. However, the latter is definitely the exception and with ~13 cantrips, you can usually dig your way out of trouble (and hide cards on top of your deck). Say you mulligan to six in order to hit a leyline, you've pratically double mulliganed, increased your likelihood of bad top decks and decreased the amount of blue cards to pitch to Dream Halls.

[Ish]

Leylines are easy to argue back and forth as it comes down to personal opinion, your meta, and what you're comfortable with/without in their place. Personally I like them to sure up discard strategies, Storm, and the random Burn players. That is a lot of decks they are good against for me to justify them as a 4 of slot.

[HoneyT]

I actually agree with NesretepNoj regarding the Leylines. Not being blue makes winning with Dream Halls more difficult. I took 1st at another local tourney the other day with the same list from a few posts ago. Haven't been missing the Leylines yet.

[phazonmutant]

Leylines are easy to argue back and forth as it comes down to personal opinion, your meta, and what you're comfortable with/without in their place. Personally I like them to sure up discard strategies, Storm, and the random Burn players. That is a lot of decks they are good against for me to justify them as a 4 of slot.

They're definitely at their best against decks like Jund. They are petty inconsistent though. Do you guys feel like the Jund matchup is very difficult without Leylines? Otherwise I would think that it's just better to rely on redundancy and cantrips as NesretepNoj. After all, it's not like they're relevantly shutting off Liliana.

Regarding the storm matchup - I could see Leyline being a big problem for ANT. They pretty much have to board in Xantid Swarm and bounce. I've never really had an issue with Leylines playing TES though. TES can proactively and reactively disrupt with Silence and also brings in Swarm. Ad Nauseam into 20+ goblins and an upkeep Silence is still a kill.

//

On another subject, what's the most compact board kill package? It seems like there's a ton of slots devoted to the kill in the board with some of the recent lists, which really makes me wonder about Cunning Wish. Why is Cunning Wish better than something like Burning Wish?

[Megadeus]

They're definitely at their best against decks like Jund. They are petty inconsistent though. Do you guys feel like the Jund matchup is very difficult without Leylines? Otherwise I would think that it's just better to rely on redundancy and cantrips as NesretepNoj. After all, it's not like they're relevantly shutting off Liliana.

Regarding the storm matchup - I could see Leyline being a big problem for ANT. They pretty much have to board in Xantid Swarm and bounce. I've never really had an issue with Leylines playing TES though. TES can proactively and reactively disrupt with Silence and also brings in Swarm. Ad Nauseam into 20+ goblins and an upkeep Silence is still a kill.

//

On another subject, what's the most compact board kill package? It seems like there's a ton of slots devoted to the kill in the board with some of the recent lists, which really makes me wonder about Cunning Wish. Why is Cunning Wish better than something like Burning Wish?
CUnning Wish gets disruption like Force I guess? Also it allows you to stay in mono blue.

[blindspotxxx]

It can fetch trickbind to handle detention spheres and oblivion rings while burning wish can't help you with that

[phazonmutant]

It can fetch trickbind to handle detention spheres and oblivion rings while burning wish can't help you with that

Obviously, but there's some tradeoff between consistency, power, and deck space. It seems like Cunning Wish is powerful in that it allows you to stop Show and Tell hate, but it doesn't directly help you combo unlike Burning Wish, and requires extra board slots to turn it into a kill.

But even assuming Cunning Wish is the best tool, my main question is what is the most compact kill? I've seen everything from Firemind's Foresight, Lab Man, Release the Ants, and tutors for Emrakul. Is there no consensus like there was in old Burning Wish Omniscience?

[nedleeds]

Cunning Wish is better in a win immediately build that already has 3 Pacts main. They are going to win the counter war (sans Flusterstorm) and likely resolve show and tell. If they have a Wish and you have no ETB effect then they just go get the win via FMF.

[blindspotxxx]

Firemind's Foresight is the nuts :)

Helps you supply the cards needed to win with Dreamhalls as it fetches pitch cards for you to Enter the Infinite.

[nedleeds]

Glad I just bought 3 more In the Eye of Chaos ... this might get popular

[Kuma]

Obviously, but there's some tradeoff between consistency, power, and deck space. It seems like Cunning Wish is powerful in that it allows you to stop Show and Tell hate, but it doesn't directly help you combo unlike Burning Wish, and requires extra board slots to turn it into a kill.

But even assuming Cunning Wish is the best tool, my main question is what is the most compact kill? I've seen everything from Firemind's Foresight, Lab Man, Release the Ants, and tutors for Emrakul. Is there no consensus like there was in old Burning Wish Omniscience?

Advantages of Cunning Wish over Burning Wish:


Doesn't require you to add a color.
Lets you get free countermagic from the sideboard. I think this is better than getting Overmaster, as Force of Will costs zero and can be used offensively.
Allows you to respond to a Show and Tell'd Oblivion Ring/Detention Sphere on your Omniscience by wishing for Trickbind.
Allows you save Laboratory Maniac from Abrupt Decay without boarding in bounce.
Better supports Dream Halls as it's easier to cast and cast things with since it's blue and you can wish for Firemind's Foresight.
Pitches to Force of Will.
Can get Omniscience through Intuition.


Advantages of Burning Wish over Cunning Wish:


Costs two mana instead of three.
Allows you to directly grab Show and Tell and Enter the Infinite instead of Intuition -> Show and Tell/Enter the Infinite.
Allows you to run more permanent answers to hate bears/artifacts (Firespout, Shattering Spree, etc.).


I'm not the most experienced player with Burning Wish shells in this kind of deck so it's possible I've overlooked some of the advantages of the card. As for the most compact kill, it's Research / Development and Laboratory Maniac. This is more efficient than Release the Ants as the Laboratory Maniac kill takes up two sideboard slots compared to one sideboard slot and one maindeck slot. Unlike Release the Ants, the Laboratory Maniac kill also doesn't lose to your opponent running Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

I think if we're going to splash for a color, it should be black for Lim-Dul's Vault with Slaughter Pact and possibly Thoughtseize in the sideboard.

[langiroth]

Hi guys,

Very new to this deck and these forums. I've read through the entire thread, I just want to make sure I have this right:

After you draw your whole deck with EtI (presumably with Cunning Wish -> FMF -> search up Intuition, Trickbind, Brainstorm -> Intuition for EtI, all this with either DH or Omni on the field), you cast another Cunning Wish for R&D. Then, do you R&D for just Lab Maniac (so that your deck ends up being 2 cards; one put back from EtI, and Lab Man)? Then Ponder, play Lab Man, then Ponder two more times (saving Brainstorm for instant-speed win in case they have a removal spell). Is that right? Or do you fetch more from your SB with R&D (Thoughtseize, another Trickbind, Force of Will, etc)? I guess it depends on the situation. What's commonly done?

Sorry for the newbie questions. I'm really interested in this deck, it seems fun! :laugh:

[phazonmutant]

I'm not the most experienced player with Burning Wish shells in this kind of deck so it's possible I've overlooked some of the advantages of the card. As for the most compact kill, it's Research / Development and Laboratory Maniac. This is more efficient than Release the Ants as the Laboratory Maniac kill takes up two sideboard slots compared to one sideboard slot and one maindeck slot. Unlike Release the Ants, the Laboratory Maniac kill also doesn't lose to your opponent running Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

I think if we're going to splash for a color, it should be black for Lim-Dul's Vault with Slaughter Pact and possibly Thoughtseize in the sideboard.

Good summary. Correct me if I'm wrong though - both the Firemind's Foresight kill and the Lab Man kill rely on Enter the Infinite and Firemind's Foresight also requires not having drawn the Intuition or 2 Enters, right? That just seems very all-in compared to having the ability to S&T or Omniscience-cast Emrakul in a pinch, but being able to actually find Enter is definitely a plus. I know it's a corner case, but what happens if Enter gets discarded and Extracted?

Regarding efficiency, I would honestly be inclined to favor the sideboard slot in a wishboard, especially since the maindeck Emrakul actually does have synergy with other parts of the combo.

I'm not saying anyone's wrong about the deck decisions, I'm just wondering what the reasons for the different choices are. I haven't played Omniscience since Enter came out. As far as advantages of Burning Wish, I was a big fan of it in the old Omniscience build, and it seems like it would be even better at improving consistency in the Enter build. Maindeck access to Pyroclasm is also way more relevant than I would have thought. I suppose Dream Halls does really incentivize you to be mono-U as you mentioned.

[Nekrataal]

Good summary. Correct me if I'm wrong though - both the Firemind's Foresight kill and the Lab Man kill rely on Enter the Infinite and Firemind's Foresight also requires not having drawn the Intuition or 2 Enters, right?

Assuming you have used Intuition already yes. If it is still in your hand in addition to combo pieces just grab another Cunning Wish.

Anyway I think you are right with the reliance on EtI. That's why I currently test both kill conditions in SB because Ants doesn't require EtI. You can also setup a kill against non- Reanimate / S&T Decks sufficiently good with Omniscience on Top or even Dream Halls / FoW. This is not more risky than trying to pull off a win via Emrakul. So Emrakul is still absent from my main deck or SB (because it anyway would require EtI to go the save route).



Regarding efficiency, I would honestly be inclined to favor the sideboard slot in a wishboard, especially since the maindeck Emrakul actually does have synergy with other parts of the combo.


But it also has disynergies namely Dream Halls and is actually a quite shaky win condition on its own.

[NesretepNoj]

You should probably read through the last three pages before posting starting with emidln's post: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24583-Deck-Omniscience&p=718270&viewfull=1#post718270

Foresight and Lab Man aren't separate kills. The former sets up the latter by this chain: Cunning --> FF --> Intuition --> EtI --> Cunning --> Research --> Lab Man. So no. If you draw Intuition, you just bypass Foresight.

Another point: Release the Ants can't kill without casting EtI. If you go Omni + Cunning --> RtA without having resolved an EtI, there's a huge chance you will lose or tie the clash within the first few resolutions.

The discussion about the Dream Halls/Omniscience/EtI/Cunning Wish-deck should really get a separate thread using emidln's post as a primer until someone takes the time to write a more complete one. I'd be willing to do so, but I'm rather pressed with exams at the moment (and I'm not sure I possess the proper linguistic skills).

[Nekrataal]

Another point: Release the Ants can't kill without casting EtI. If you go Omni + Cunning --> RtA without having resolved an EtI, there's a huge chance you will lose or tie the clash within the first few resolutions.


Assuming that you have an Omniscience on top or manage to put it there (Intuition on Omniscience then Noxious Revival or just put a second on top via Brainstorm) this will win against most decks except S&T and Reanimator decks. But still you probably can't do that consistently enough to warrant this an option.

[NesretepNoj]

Oh well, did take the time to write a small primer anyways. Check it out: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26059-Deck-Cunning-Halls

I suggest any further discussion on the mono blue deck containing Dream Halls, Omniscience, Enter the Infinite, and Cunning Wish to be taking in that thread (and leave discussion about he UR deck with Burning Wish, Griselbrand, etc. here).

[Kuma]

Good summary. Correct me if I'm wrong though - both the Firemind's Foresight kill and the Lab Man kill rely on Enter the Infinite and Firemind's Foresight also requires not having drawn the Intuition or 2 Enters, right?

As was said earlier, Firemind's Foresight isn't a kill, it's an enabler. Firemind's Foresight allows you to win with Dream Halls + Cunning Wish + any two blue cards. You discard a blue card to cast Cunning Wish for Firemind's Foresight, then you discard the other blue card to cast Firemind's Foresight getting Brainstorm, Lim-Dul's Vault/Impulse/Trickbind, and Intuition. Discard either Brainstorm or the other card to cast Intuition for three Enter the Infinite. Discard whichever blue card you kept to cast Enter the Infinite. If you already used the maindeck Intuition, you'll need a third blue card as you'll have to get Cunning Wish with Firemind's Foresight and wish for the sideboard Intuition.

TL/DR: If you've already used the Intuition, you need a third blue card to win with the Firemind's Foresight chain. If you've already drawn two Enter the Infinite, you don't need to use the Firemind's Foresight chain. Both paths to victory require you to cast Enter the Infinite.


That just seems very all-in compared to having the ability to S&T or Omniscience-cast Emrakul in a pinch, but being able to actually find Enter is definitely a plus. I know it's a corner case, but what happens if Enter gets discarded and Extracted?

If Enter the Infinite is discarded and extracted, you can't win. Like you said, it's corner case especially with Inquisition of Kozilek becoming the discard spell of choice and with Leyline of Sanctity in the board. There are also cute tricks you can do like Cunning Wish for your own Surgical Extraction in response and fail to find the extra Enter the Infinites.


Regarding efficiency, I would honestly be inclined to favor the sideboard slot in a wishboard, especially since the maindeck Emrakul actually does have synergy with other parts of the combo.

I guess it's pretty hard to lose when you cast Emrakul with Omniscience, but the problem is he's really bad with Dream Halls. I also hate Show and Telling him into play because there are so many things that can go wrong and the extra free creature an aggro deck gets to put in is often enough to alpha strike you through the Emrakul. He gets you out of some corner cases, but I've never been playing this deck and thought, "Man, I wish I had an Emrakul or three right now." I count him as a slot you have to run with the Release the Ants kill, because I don't think he's good on his own. I also value sideboard space less than maindeck space so one card in the main and one in the board is more slots to me than two sideboard slots.


I'm not saying anyone's wrong about the deck decisions, I'm just wondering what the reasons for the different choices are. I haven't played Omniscience since Enter came out. As far as advantages of Burning Wish, I was a big fan of it in the old Omniscience build, and it seems like it would be even better at improving consistency in the Enter build. Maindeck access to Pyroclasm is also way more relevant than I would have thought. I suppose Dream Halls does really incentivize you to be mono-U as you mentioned.

What I think is lost here is that while Burning Wish lets you run 7 copies of Show and Tell and Enter the Infinite, Dream Halls acts like Show and Tell 5-8 and Omniscience 5-8, but not to use Emrakul. Cunning Wish can act as Enter the Infinite 5-8 if you have Omniscience or Dream Halls + two blue cards.

There are certainly pros and cons to each list, but I think what Dream Halls and Cunning Wish do outweighs what Emrakul and Burning Wish do. That said, I've never played with a Burning Wish/Emrakul list, only against them so YMMV.

[Anusien]

So Firemind's Foresight as a straight combo card versus Intuition.
With Dream Halls, Firemind's Foresight requires 2 blue cards to win (Wish, Foresight, which gives you the two for Intuition + Enter) unless you've used your maindeck Intuition. Then it requires 3 (Wish, Foresight, Intuition), right?
With Dream Halls, Intuition requires 3 blue cards (Wish, Intuition, Enter).

And they're both just bricks if you've seen two Enter the Infinite already, right? Then you need to hope to get lucky by being able to assemble Noxious Revival + draw spell.

[Lejay]

This thread really needs a mod to rename it UR Omniscience.

[Nihil Credo]

This thread really needs a mod to rename it UR Omniscience.

Agreed. Also changed yours to "MonoU OmniTell", to further avoid confusion.

My impression would be that the splash doesn't make a big enough difference that it needs two threads, but since both of them appear to see enough use, so be it.

BTW, the May placements for "OmniTell" were 7 monoU and 8 U/R, just in case anyone wonders why the other thread went into the DTB.

[downtoonelife]

I know this thread is dead but I'm still playing this version of OmniTell over the MonoU version.

Ended 7th place yesterday out of 70 players in our local Duel for Duals tourney.

R1 vs RUG - 2-0 both Show and Tell into Emrakul win
R2 vs Destructive Flow Jund 2-1 Game 1 win with Spiraling Embers. Game 3 win by attacking Griselbrand 3 times
R3 vs BW/G Bob/Stoneforge/Deathrite deck 2-0 win both via Spiraling Embers
R4 vs MonoU Omnitell 2-0 Game 1 win with Spiraling Embers. Game 2 win with Omniscience + Time of Need + Emrakul. He has 2 Leyline of Sanctity in play
R5 vs UWR Delver with Stoneforge 1-2
R6 vs Rock 2-0 win both with Spiraling Embers
R7 vs Death and Taxes ID
5th place after Swiss

Lost to Sneaky Show in 3 games in the Quarterfinals.

My list:

3 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Griselbrand
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Personal Tutor
2 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

SB:
1 Show and Tell
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Time of Need
1 Eye of Nowhere
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
3 Flusterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
1 Swamp

I'm planning of changing the SB: -1 Swamp, -1 Defense Grid and +2 Pithing Needle. Lost Game 2 to Destructive Jund due to resolve Liliana of the Veil and lost to Sneaky Show because of Sneak Attack.

[apple713]

I know this thread is dead but I'm still playing this version of OmniTell over the MonoU version.

Ended 7th place yesterday out of 70 players in our local Duel for Duals tourney.

R1 vs RUG - 2-0 both Show and Tell into Emrakul win
R2 vs Destructive Flow Jund 2-1 Game 1 win with Spiraling Embers. Game 3 win by attacking Griselbrand 3 times
R3 vs BW/G Bob/Stoneforge/Deathrite deck 2-0 win both via Spiraling Embers
R4 vs MonoU Omnitell 2-0 Game 1 win with Spiraling Embers. Game 2 win with Omniscience + Time of Need + Emrakul. He has 2 Leyline of Sanctity in play
R5 vs UWR Delver with Stoneforge 1-2
R6 vs Rock 2-0 win both with Spiraling Embers
R7 vs Death and Taxes ID
5th place after Swiss

Lost to Sneaky Show in 3 games in the Quarterfinals.

My list:

3 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Griselbrand
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Personal Tutor
2 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

SB:
1 Show and Tell
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Time of Need
1 Eye of Nowhere
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
3 Flusterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
1 Swamp

I'm planning of changing the SB: -1 Swamp, -1 Defense Grid and +2 Pithing Needle. Lost Game 2 to Destructive Jund due to resolve Liliana of the Veil and lost to Sneaky Show because of Sneak Attack.
It seems like you took the worst part of sneak and show And the worst part of of no tell and put them together in a deck.

The best part of snak and show is sneak attack. Haste is king here. Also big creatures are required because of this. Show and telling creatures into play is the weaker part of this deck.
He best part of Omnitell is winning as soon as it hits the battlefield. Ie something like lab maniac or release the ants.
Casting emrakul off omniscience is usually a last resort

Interesting tho. Burning wish is something I thought should always be played hand and hand with show and tell. Personal tutor too.

[Higgs]

apple713, it sounds like you're seeing this deck for the first time. It was the de facto Omniscience deck when the card came out and some successful lists splashed black like downtoonelife for Thoughtseize to strip things like hatebears from people's hands or to get more information and plan the wincons accordingly because this deck can win in many ways. This deck is faster than Sneak&Show and has more ways to win so it is harder to hate it out but the main problem is it's a 3 card combo most of the time. If I were to veer off from Sneak probably I'd try this before the Mono-U version because it can be very explosive, you get to play with Jace, and it's much more fun.

Oh and yes, some versions just play 2 Jace because you can cast it on turn 2 or you can land it via Omniscience and brainstorm into your wincons. I think I'd play this in a less discard heavy, more hatebeary meta.

[blindspotxxx]

I know this thread is dead but I'm still playing this version of OmniTell over the MonoU version.

Ended 7th place yesterday out of 70 players in our local Duel for Duals tourney.

R1 vs RUG - 2-0 both Show and Tell into Emrakul win
R2 vs Destructive Flow Jund 2-1 Game 1 win with Spiraling Embers. Game 3 win by attacking Griselbrand 3 times
R3 vs BW/G Bob/Stoneforge/Deathrite deck 2-0 win both via Spiraling Embers
R4 vs MonoU Omnitell 2-0 Game 1 win with Spiraling Embers. Game 2 win with Omniscience + Time of Need + Emrakul. He has 2 Leyline of Sanctity in play
R5 vs UWR Delver with Stoneforge 1-2
R6 vs Rock 2-0 win both with Spiraling Embers
R7 vs Death and Taxes ID
5th place after Swiss

Lost to Sneaky Show in 3 games in the Quarterfinals.

My list:

3 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Griselbrand
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Personal Tutor
2 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

SB:
1 Show and Tell
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Time of Need
1 Eye of Nowhere
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
3 Flusterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
1 Swamp

I'm planning of changing the SB: -1 Swamp, -1 Defense Grid and +2 Pithing Needle. Lost Game 2 to Destructive Jund due to resolve Liliana of the Veil and lost to Sneaky Show because of Sneak Attack.

More hate for me? Noooo! lol Currently you already have an edge against me as I have chosen to forego Flusterstorms from my maindeck to combat tempo decks. Great Games too bad the I-Pad taking the video lost it's batteries lol Kudos to you for being the only player playing this deck and often makes it to the top.


It seems like you took the worst part of sneak and show And the worst part of of no tell and put them together in a deck.

The best part of snak and show is sneak attack. Haste is king here. Also big creatures are required because of this. Show and telling creatures into play is the weaker part of this deck.
He best part of Omnitell is winning as soon as it hits the battlefield. Ie something like lab maniac or release the ants.
Casting emrakul off omniscience is usually a last resort

Interesting tho. Burning wish is something I thought should always be played hand and hand with show and tell. Personal tutor too.

This deck also wins as soon as it combos off. It is a strong Show and Tell deck as well, the only weird thing is that people started to switch to Mono Blue Omniscience/Dream Halls that's why this deck lost it's popularity. Popularity is not = Deck's Strength. This deck can play a better tool box than the Mono Blue Version as it can tutor Thoughtseize for disruption (As compared to Pact which is Suicidal) , tutor Pyroclasm for hatebears (Better than Sapphire Charm, Bounce and etc) and of course has 7 copies of Show and Tell. Downside would probably be the no Trickbind but you have Thoughtseize for the Oblivion Rings.

[apple713]

More hate for me? Noooo! lol Currently you already have an edge against me as I have chosen to forego Flusterstorms from my maindeck to combat tempo decks. Great Games too bad the I-Pad taking the video lost it's batteries lol Kudos to you for being the only player playing this deck and often makes it to the top.



This deck also wins as soon as it combos off. It is a strong Show and Tell deck as well, the only weird thing is that people started to switch to Mono Blue Omniscience/Dream Halls that's why this deck lost it's popularity. Popularity is not = Deck's Strength. This deck can play a better tool box than the Mono Blue Version as it can tutor Thoughtseize for disruption (As compared to Pact which is Suicidal) , tutor Pyroclasm for hatebears (Better than Sapphire Charm, Bounce and etc) and of course has 7 copies of Show and Tell. Downside would probably be the no Trickbind but you have Thoughtseize for the Oblivion Rings.

i have see this deck before but have not read extensivly on it. Ive played the mono blue version but i dont like it. it seems to be less consistent than sneak and show. This deck appears to be more consistent / on par with sneak and show's consistency because of the tutors. The 1 thing i dont like about this decks i that it is 100% reliant on show and tell. Show and tell is my least favorite part of sneak and show because many decks are packing answers for it over sneak attack.

the mono blue version that lejay posted isn't my fav, im actually a fan of the black splash.

I may give this deck a go but i don't typically like how it reads. It has versatility but if S&T gets surgical'd your done.

[blindspotxxx]

Surgical on Show and Tell doesn't kill the deck, you can still wish for it :) One of the main problems of this deck is Flusterstorm and O-ring in my opinion.

[SirTylerGalt]

Surgical on Show and Tell doesn't kill the deck, you can still wish for it :) One of the main problems of this deck is Flusterstorm and O-ring in my opinion.

No you can't. Since M10 rule changes, you can no longer wish for exiled cards. I used this against an OmniTell player during my last tournament, after he Intuitioned for Show&Tell. Got me the win :)

[Higgs]

Yes you can. If you play 1 S&T in your sideboard, just like every UR Omniscience deck. That's why Wish is in the list. It gives you a total of 7 copies of your enabler.

[blindspotxxx]

Yes you can. If you play 1 S&T in your sideboard, just like every UR Omniscience deck. That's why Wish is in the list. It gives you a total of 7 copies of your enabler.

This! Everyone who has been really keeping track of new decks would know this lol The deck can laugh at Surgical honestly

[sillysam71]

I had an scg top 8 with this deck last November, but ever since Enter the Infinite came out, I've been on the MonoU list. I'm thinking about coming back to this version now because i feel it's better against death and taxes and other Thalia decks. Thoughtseize and Burning Wish are just too good. I think this is roughly what I'm gonna start playing:

2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
20

4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
14

3 Thoughtseize
3 Daze
4 Force
10

3 Show and Tell
4 Wish
4 Omniscience
3 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
15

1 Jace, the Mindskulptor

Sideboard
1 Enter Infinite
1 Spiraling Embers
2 Defense Grid
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Time of Need
1 Show and Tell
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Slaughter Games
2 Flex Slots*******

I think the Enter the Infinite>Spiraling Embers kill is better than Petals into Grapeshot since it gets around stuff like stifle on grapeshot.

Jace is kind of a weird slot in this deck, but he was really good for me when I played him, so I'm trying 1 again.

[civet five]

Max Brown won the SCG LV Invitational, and piloted U/R OmniTell through Legacy: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=61436

I find the 2 Dazes to be a bit weird - is that just for the combo turn? I also don't really understand the Tremor in the sideboard

[Bryant Cook]

Max Brown won the SCG LV Invitational, and piloted U/R OmniTell through Legacy: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=61436

I find the 2 Dazes to be a bit weird - is that just for the combo turn? I also don't really understand the Tremor in the sideboard

Watch the coverage. He had a savage Tremor against Death and Taxes (Maybe it was Elves? Can't remember.) - It was fucking awesome.

[CaptainTwiddle]

Max Brown won the SCG LV Invitational, and piloted U/R OmniTell through Legacy: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=61436

...I also don't really understand the Tremor in the sideboard

I think the main reason for Tremor was a mana cost consideration. If you're really pressured, you might not have enough mana to Wish for and cast Pyroclasm in the same turn.

[civet five]

I'd like to go back and watch the coverage of Max playing the deck, because at least in theory + my limited experience with the deck, its not really the 3 CMC vs. 4 that's the issue. The issue is having access to RR in a single turn early, and under pressure, while also not totally stunting your development.

[Tombo175]

I understand that having 1 pact of negation in your 60 makes sense since it is the combo protector on your winning turn; but why do omnitell decks play 2-4 copies? It's nice having counterspells, but isn't this card more of a force of will fodder during any other part of the game? I also know that it can pitch to dream halls, but at some point doesn't that make it seem like a replaceable card to anyone else? At least to not make it a 2-4 of.

[yugular]

Hi folks!

Never played the deck and relatively new to Legacy. I was just curious why this deck sometimes plays Eye of Nowhere in the sideboard? Are there specific situations where it shines as a Burning Wish target? How relevant the ability to hit lands is? (Void Snare from M15 is pretty similar, but lacks the ability to target lands)

[KjU]

Void Snare will probably replace Eye of Nowhere. It has mostly been discussed as a SB card in Ad Nauseum Tendrils, but it is definitely playable in UR Omnishow aswell.

[sawatarix]

How good is personal tutor in this deck?
isn't it way better than preordain because most of the time i have a bomb in my hand (creature or omniscience) but no show and tell.

do we have a backup plan if show and tell gets extracted, we just loose right?

[Esper3k]

We'll if you're playing a Dream Halls build, you can still win through that.

[sawatarix]

well, the u/r version doesn't play dreamhalls but 3 show and tell and 4 burning wish right?

hm, there should be a backup plan, otherwise it's to easy to beat this combo i guess.

[Bobmans]

well, the u/r version doesn't play dreamhalls but 3 show and tell and 4 burning wish right?

hm, there should be a backup plan, otherwise it's to easy to beat this combo i guess.

This deck relies very heavily on resolving a S&T or B. Wish into S&T. The only backup is either winning on the back of Jace, TMS or hardcasting Omniscience. I guess that both SneakyShow and (Dreamhalls) Mono U OmniTell are more consistant. I did however enjoyed playing this version of the deck the most. I played FoW, Daze and Stifle to protect S&T.

[kingsey]

Is this deck outclassed by mono U now?

[Smea.gol.lum]

I don't know if it's outclassed or if it's just more popular because people tend to be lazy and netdeck.

Has anyone ever tested Psychic Theft?? Beating opponents with their own cards sounds like fun to me.

Here 's the list that I would try the card in:

MD:
4Force of Will
3Psychic Theft
4Brainstorm
4Ponder
4Preordain
3Cunning Wish
4Burning Wish
3Show and Tell
4Omniscience
4Dream Halls
1Release the Ants
3Lotus Petal
4Scalding Tarn
3Flooded Strand
3City of Traitors
2Volcanic Island
1Mountain
6Island

SB:
1Show and Tell
1Enter the Infinite
1Pyroclasm
1Living Wish
1Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1Wipe Away
1Intuition
1Overmaster
1Pact of Negation
1Noxious Revival
1Firemind's Foresight
2Defense Grid
2Blood Moon

Psychic Theft could be replaced by Flusterstorm or Pact of Negation if it turns out to be bad.

Note the lack of Enter the Infinite in the maindeck. In the case of Omniscience Burning Wish fulfills its role equally good.
If you plan tou play Dream Halls you need to play Burning Wish for EtI the turn before you want to go off.
You also need Cunning Wish and 3 further cards in combination with Dream Halls instead of 2 despite of running FF in the SB.

[sawatarix]

Dreamhalls + burning Wish doesn't really work because of the less amount of red cards in our deck.
Dreamhalls only works together with Enter the Infinite so i'm not sure if it's good enough.
The main lines would be:

dream halls --> enter the infinite
dream halls --> omniscience --> Burning Wish
dream halls --> cunning wish (if we play any) --> fireminds foresight --> intuition --> enter the infinite

seriously i would cut dreamhalls and just stay with burning wishes and 3 show and tells.
i like the list sillysam71 posted before.But i'm not a big fan of 3 colours in this deck so thoughseize will be replaced by flusterstorms i guess.

[Smea.gol.lum]

Dreamhalls + burning Wish doesn't really work because of the less amount of red cards in our deck.Well, like I pointed out you have to wish for EtI the turn before you go off. Sometimes this line could be too slow though. Testing needs to be done
Dreamhalls only works together with Enter the Infinite so i'm not sure if it's good enough.
The main lines would be:

dream halls --> enter the infinite
dream halls --> omniscience --> Burning Wish
dream halls --> cunning wish (if we play any)--> fireminds foresight --> intuition --> enter the infinite

seriously i would cut dreamhalls and just stay with burning wishes and 3 show and tells. Then you need to add Griselbrands/Emrakuls cause 4 Omniscience alone are not enough
i like the list sillysam71 posted before.But i'm not a big fan of 3 colours in this deck so thoughseize will be replaced by flusterstorms i guess.

[sawatarix]

burning wish into show and tell costs 5 mana - equal to hardcasting a dream halls so it is not slower than the version with dream halls.

yep, we need 4 omniscience + 4 fatties, i prefer griseldude to draw into more action.
in the testing games i often had show and tell into omniscience,then cast griselbrand, draw 7 into burning wish into tendrils of agony/grapeshot/whatever killcard from the sideboard.emrakul is also fine but there are to many games where it doesn't do anything.

ps: This deck looses immediately to a counterbalance deck with floating a cmc3 spell for the rest of the game.

[Bobmans]

This deck relies sooo heavily on Show and Tell. Isn't running Sneak/Show or Mono U OmniTell in any case better? Making this deck obsolete?

[somethingdotdotdot]

Well since they spoiled the new white hatebear, it feels like SnT->creature strategies have been hosed by a huge notch. As such I wanted to come back to this deck to explore a little bit. With the advent of the new delve cards, I feel like the deck needs a way to fill up the graveyard; however, a fundamental problem appears with the fact that using these delve cards make the deck slower as a result. To compensate, I added in a lot of extra removal elements to add a lot of early game control basically turning the deck into a very control heavy UR deck with a combo finish. Here's the list after a couple hours of testing against mostly UR delver and death and taxes:

Control Elements (13):
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Flame Slash
1x Pyroblast
4x Force of Will
1x Misdirection

Combo Elements (11):
3x Show and Tell
4x Omniscience
4x Burning Wish
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Filter Elements (16):
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
4x Dig Through Time

Lands (20):
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Flooded Strand
1x Arid Mesa
3x Ancient Tomb
3x Island
1x Mountain
3x Volcanic Island

SB (15):
1x Treasure Cruise
1x Void Snare
1x Overmaster
1x Enter the Infinite
1x Tremor
1x Time of Need
1x Vandalblast
1x Spiraling Embers
2x Swan Song
3x Pyroclasm
1x Show and Tell
1x (Open)

So this deck is obviously much slower than a lot of its other show and tell brethren, but packs a heavy suite of creature control elements and can reliable cast multiple dig through times without too much worry. Burning wish pulls double duty as both enabler and as a way to grab bullets to further control the board. There are still kinks to be sorted out, but the deck is extremely fun to say the least. A few problem matchups I could see would be faster combo decks and I feel like the 1 open slot should probably be dedicated to shoring up that matchup via 1x flusterstorms or something similar.

I could also see cutting 1-2 preordain for jaces since this deck can go long pretty well as well as have some more game versus counterbalance decks.

[Guy I Don't Know]

I have been testing similar. I top 8'd a small 50 man tourney and 4-0d last local legacy with it. I would play in the open but I won't be in town. If anyone is interested in the list:4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thought Scour
1 Gitaxian Probe
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroclasm
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Dig Through Time
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul, the AEons Torn
3 Spell Snare
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn

SB
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Krosan Grip
2 Voidslime
1 Hydroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Envelop
2 Ancient Grudge

[warfordium]

i've never tried the UR version (mostly just the U version). how about this?



4 Force of Will
4 Omniscience
3 Show and Tell
3 Dig Through Time
7 Fetches


1 Misdirection
1 Emrakul, the Æons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
5 Island


2 Pyroblast
1 Enter the Infinite

4 Ponder
2 Volcanic Island


2 Flusterstorm
1 Dream Halls

3 Gitaxian Probe
2 City of Traitors


2 Pact of Negation


3 Preordain
2 Lotus Petal



11 Counters
7 Kills
7 Enablers
17 Cantrips*
18 Land*



with a sideboard of
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Show and Tell
1 Enter the Infinite
3 Pyroclasm
1 Void Snare
1 Pact of Negation
1 Misdirection
1 Flusterstorm
2 Swan Song
1 Open Slot

[death]

This deck relies sooo heavily on Show and Tell. Isn't running Sneak/Show or Mono U OmniTell in any case better? Making this deck obsolete?


There is a reverse in trend happening, Dream Halls/Enter the Infinite being shaved in favor of Dig Through Time. Dream Halls has 'global' effect as side effect while EtI and DTT are great post-combo but terrible pre-Omniscience. It's only a matter of time before someone figures out a working decklist. Without further ado, I hereby present 8-Wish Omniscience.dec. The wishes/tutors are never blank draws and function as virtual EtI/DTT copies as well. The deck can win at instant speed upon resolution of Show and Tell in response to a removal spell or ability targeting Omniscience on the stack (O-ring, Ashen Rider, Qasali Pridemage, Reclamation Sage) via False Cure.

You will notice I've cut the number of fatties to 3 and there is no Griselbrand in the 75. This means less dead draws and you stop caring about your life total. The Emrakul plan bypasses Teeg, Thalia, Spirit of the Labyrinth and Surgical Extraction. The wishboard lets you play around Containment Priest, Meddling Mage, E. Canonist and Leyline of Sanctity. The deck does not rely only on Show and Tell, Through the Breach is available in a pinch.

Maindeck
4 Burning Wish
4 Cunning Wish
3 Show and Tell
2 Intuition
1 Split Decision

4 Omniscience
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Sideboard
1 Show and Tell
1 Intuition
1 Time of Need
1 Overmaster
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pyroclasm
1 Sudden Shock
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Beacon of Immortality
1 False Cure
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Through the Breach

Show and Tell win:
SnT > Emrakul
SnT > Omniscience > see below

Burning Wish win:
B-Wish > Time of Need > Emrakul
B-Wish > Enter the Infinite: 1) C-Wish + SD into False Cure + Beacon or 2) cast your Emrakuls

Cunning Wish win:
C-Wish > Intuition > Emrakul
C-Wish > Through the Breach > Emrakul
C-Wish > Firemind's Foresight (C-Wish + SD + Brainstorm) > False Cure > Beacon of Immortality

- requires 1 Cunning Wish available & Split Decision not in the GY
C-Wish > Firemind's Foresight (Intuition + SD + Brainstorm) > Emrakul + protection

- in case Cunning Wish meets Surgical Extraction mid-combo

Intuition win:
Intuition > any of the above lines of play or let your opponent choose his/her own poison

The wishes can also be used as reset button in order to buy time while looking for the other half of the combo (Omniscience). Burning Wish > Pyroclasm or Cunning Wish > Through the Breach.

*Release the Ants kill can also be made instant speed through Firemind's Foresight (Intuition + Quicken) and it can free up 1 slot in the sideboard but would eat up 4 slots in the main: 3 EtI, 1 Quicken, which is what we're trying to avoid.

*Changes in the sb include Noxious Revival to address GY decks, discard, Surgical Extraction and counter-heavy matchups.

*Gitaxian Probe gives perfect info but doesn't really help win counter wars. - 4 Probe +3 Flusterstorm +1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All.

[Bobmans]

There is a reverse in trend happening, Dream Halls/Enter the Infinite being shaved in favor of Dig Through Time. Dream Halls has 'global' effect as side effect while EtI and DTT are great post-combo but terrible pre-Omniscience. It's only a matter of time before someone figures out a working decklist. Without further ado, I hereby present 8-Wish Omniscience.dec. The wishes/tutors are never blank draws and function as virtual EtI/DTT copies as well. The deck can win at instant speed upon resolution of Show and Tell in response to a removal spell or ability targeting Omniscience on the stack (O-ring, Ashen Rider, Qasali Pridemage, Reclamation Sage) via False Cure.

You will notice I've cut the number of fatties to 3 and there is no Griselbrand in the 75. This means less dead draws and you stop caring about your life total. The Emrakul plan bypasses Teeg, Thalia, Spirit of the Labyrinth and Surgical Extraction. The wishboard lets you play around Containment Priest, Meddling Mage, E. Canonist and Leyline of Sanctity. The deck does not rely only on Show and Tell, Through the Breach is available in a pinch.

Maindeck
3 Show and Tell
4 Burning Wish
4 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
1 Twincast

4 Omniscience
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard
1 Show and Tell
1 Time of Need
1 Intuition
1 Pyroblast
1 Overmaster
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sudden Shock
1 Pyroclasm
1 Through the Breach
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 False Cure
1 Beacon of Immortality
1 Enter the Infinite

Show and Tell win:
SnT > Emrakul
SnT > Omniscience > see below

Burning Wish win:
B-Wish > Time of Need > Emrakul
B-Wish > Enter the Infinite: 1) C-Wish > FF into False Cure or 2) cast all your Emrakuls

Cunning Wish win:
C-Wish > Intuition > Emrakul
C-Wish > Through the Breach > Emrakul
C-Wish > Firemind's Foresight (C-Wish + Twincast + Brainstorm) > False Cure > Beacon of Immortality

* requires 1 Cunning Wish available & Twincast not in the GY
C-Wish > Firemind's Foresight (Intuition + Twincast + Brainstorm) > Emrakul + protection

* in case Cunning Wish meets Surgical Extraction mid-combo

Intuition win:
Intuition > any of the above lines of play or let your opponent chose his/her own poison
Interesting concept. I really like having acces to both CWish as BWish. Gonna sleeve it up for some testing, altough i am not to fond of FF/False Beacon and twincast and instead i want to run Spiraling Embers and find an alternative instant wincon.
Also i think i would like to squeeze in 3 pyroclasm and 3 Boseiju and tightening the wishable cards to the most efficient ones.
Also i am actually missing Trickbind in there plus some kind of bounce/poly jest. Although BWish into Pyroclasm takes care of things to.

[Ragdoll]

I tried ur build with c.wishes also. It fails against discard so much... I played vs bug and grixis control (with duck fayden). I wouldn't recommend this route nowadays.

[death]

The wishable cards cost 0 or 1, except for 1 sweeper and 1 split-second spell both cmc 2. Nothing in the legacy card pool is more efficient. The idea was to not run a shitload of silver bullets but to give the deck flexibility and switch gears mid-combo, dodge hate and win. The 4 Probes are flex slots if you need Boseijus, soft counters, add'l EtI/DTT, Lotus Petals etc. There are 7 slots in the sb if you think Trickbind/bounce are necessary.

There is only 1 sideboard strategy for the deck above, that is against anything blue: -1 Ponder / +1 Pyroblast.

Combo, except dredge, is weak to discard I agree. But I can't think of any other deck that has more than 16 cantrips and 10 + 1 tutors, that configuration should help in those matchups.

[death]

UR Omni-Tell, by Logan Mize
12th place at SCG Players' Championship on 12/20/2014

Maindeck:
4 Lotus Petal
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Overmaster
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Show and Tell

2 Island
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Sideboard:
2 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Sudden Shock
1 Through the Breach
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Overmaster
1 Pyroclasm
1 Show and Tell
1 Void Snare
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

A brief comparison to my list: +1 Emrakul +3 Overmaster over 4 C-Wish: Cunning Wishes are win-cons not just utility (on my list): C-Wish > Pact, Pyroblast, Sudden Shock, Firemind's Foresight. Not sure how the 4 Leylines performed and if making room for it in the sideboard is worth it atm. Lotus Petals in place of 1 land +X Intuitions: The consistency Intuition provides is arguably better, in a REB-filled meta since it gives you a second shot, than speed. Intuition also doubles up as win-con (on my list).

It could be that during practice games he only needed to resolve an Overmaster and it was a metagame choice, judging from the top 16 deck lists with maindeck red blasts. /shrug

[death]

UR Omni-Tell, by Eric English
3rd place at SCG Columbus, Ohio on 1/04/2015

Maindeck:
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Intuition
2 Izzet Charm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Show and Tell

3 Island
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
2 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Firebolt
1 Massacre
1 Overmaster
1 Pyroclasm
1 Show and Tell
1 Slaughter Games
1 Thoughtseize
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Void Snare
1 Volcanic Spray


0 EtI main deck, 4 DTT, 4 BWish. The black splash enables him to grab a discard spell, more importantly take care of hate bears thru Massacre. The ability to hardcast Slaughter Games is a nice feature.

Having access to 8 Wishes OTOH, like the one I posted up there and here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28983-Deck-U-R-OmniWish&p=857648&viewfull=1#post857648) gives you more outs against hurdles and puts less strain on Burning Wish. Need feedback on how good those Izzet Charms were :-)

[elroy]

There is a reverse in trend happening, Dream Halls/Enter the Infinite being shaved in favor of Dig Through Time. Dream Halls has 'global' effect as side effect while EtI and DTT are great post-combo but terrible pre-Omniscience. It's only a matter of time before someone figures out a working decklist. Without further ado, I hereby present 8-Wish Omniscience.dec. The wishes/tutors are never blank draws and function as virtual EtI/DTT copies as well. The deck can win at instant speed upon resolution of Show and Tell in response to a removal spell or ability targeting Omniscience on the stack (O-ring, Ashen Rider, Qasali Pridemage, Reclamation Sage) via False Cure.

You will notice I've cut the number of fatties to 3 and there is no Griselbrand in the 75. This means less dead draws and you stop caring about your life total. The Emrakul plan bypasses Teeg, Thalia, Spirit of the Labyrinth and Surgical Extraction. The wishboard lets you play around Containment Priest, Meddling Mage, E. Canonist and Leyline of Sanctity. The deck does not rely only on Show and Tell, Through the Breach is available in a pinch.

Maindeck
4 Burning Wish
4 Cunning Wish
3 Show and Tell
2 Intuition
1 Split Decision

4 Omniscience
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Sideboard
1 Show and Tell
1 Intuition
1 Time of Need
1 Overmaster
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pyroclasm
1 Sudden Shock
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Beacon of Immortality
1 False Cure
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Through the Breach

Show and Tell win:
SnT > Emrakul
SnT > Omniscience > see below

Burning Wish win:
B-Wish > Time of Need > Emrakul
B-Wish > Enter the Infinite: 1) C-Wish + SD into False Cure + Beacon or 2) cast your Emrakuls

Cunning Wish win:
C-Wish > Intuition > Emrakul
C-Wish > Through the Breach > Emrakul
C-Wish > Firemind's Foresight (C-Wish + SD + Brainstorm) > False Cure > Beacon of Immortality

- requires 1 Cunning Wish available & Split Decision not in the GY
C-Wish > Firemind's Foresight (Intuition + SD + Brainstorm) > Emrakul + protection

- in case Cunning Wish meets Surgical Extraction mid-combo

Intuition win:
Intuition > any of the above lines of play or let your opponent choose his/her own poison

The wishes can also be used as reset button in order to buy time while looking for the other half of the combo (Omniscience). Burning Wish > Pyroclasm or Cunning Wish > Through the Breach.

*Release the Ants kill can also be made instant speed through Firemind's Foresight (Intuition + Quicken) and it can free up 1 slot in the sideboard but would eat up 4 slots in the main: 3 EtI, 1 Quicken, which is what we're trying to avoid.

*Changes in the sb include Noxious Revival to address GY decks, discard, Surgical Extraction and counter-heavy matchups.

*Gitaxian Probe gives perfect info but doesn't really help win counter wars. - 4 Probe +3 Flusterstorm +1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All.

Just a minor point on the Release the Ants kill. I think you can do this without eating up mainboard slots.

Cunning Wish -> FF -> Wish + Split Decision + Brainstorm -> Double up Wish -> Get Release the Ants + Intuition from the board -> Intuition for 3x Emrakul/Omni, brainstorm one to the top of library, then Release the Ants.

It is also an instant kill. So it should give you back two sideboard slots.

[death]

upside: you free up 1 sideboard slot, ignore Gaddock Teeg on the table

downside: you can't grab Flusterstorm, vulnerable to surgical extraction (sees more play than Teeg), opponent also puts Emrakul on top of his library

[chinEsE girl]

So about the list I played at SCG columbus,

The charms in the maindeck were pretty solid. I usually killed a creature with it to buy time. It's also nice to know that if your opponent plays out 2 meddling mages (1 on S&T and the other on wish) that you can break the lock once you find a charm. It also helps you play the control game where you are wishing for cards to kill your opponents creatures to buy time until you combo them.

The black splash in the board was great, massacre in particular was really good. The slaughter games on the other hand was pure doo doo. I've been talking with my friend Nick Cummings (who I originally got the list from) and we're probably going to change the games into a copy of reanimate.

[guillemnicolau]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4607-DO-NOT-TRY-TO-SELL-IN-HERE-Pimp-Legacy-Decks&p=860015&viewfull=1#post860015

your deck was my inspiration to rebuild U/R Omni-Tell, I'd appreciate it if you'd share with us your experience/ results in that thread.
Well, after death told me to share my thoughts on the deck, I'm here.

First of all, I must say that I've not been able to test the UR list in big tournaments during the last few months, and I've only played in lgs tournaments.
I started playing this monoU list, as I don't think that going mainly for ETI is a good idea in a meta with thalias, canonists, thorns...: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13956&iddeck=102643
After some testing, I realized that the list was too much S&T dependent, and that having only 4 of them MD left us without options after an extirpate, or a surgical with no CW -> noxious revival, and after loving the burning wish in ANT (been playing UBr ANT for many years) I saw that it was a perfect addition to the deck, as it gives more options and speed (more options of a 3rd turn S&T), without having a really weak mana base.

In small tournaments the deck has been performing really well (I usually 3-1-0 or 3-0-1), and if I can I'll go to a bigger tournament in 2 weeks to test it in a harder environment. I could say now some thoughts on the changes that I may do to the list in the near future, but it would make no sense as I need to test this list more, so this will have to wait a little (2 weeks as I said).


why 4x A. Tombs though, are you on a suicide mission? just kiddinghahaha, yes, I know that now that there's a lot of monoR burns and URs is not a really good choice to play 4, I'm just waiting to spot some cheap signed cities, I suppose that I'll have to spend more than I wanted..


foil Intuitions are too much, just get them signed and call it a day.I would probably do that if it had modern border, but the old border is too nice to not foil it.. :frown:


Firemind's Foresight in foil looks awesome. I need to upgrade!
https://i.imgflip.com/g6qza.jpg

[death]

UR Omni-Tell, by Nick Cummings
7th place at SCG Philly on 1/11/2015

Maindeck:
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Intuition
2 Izzet Charm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Show and Tell

3 Island
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
2 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Firebolt
1 Massacre
1 Overmaster
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell
1 Thoughtseize
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Void Snare
1 Volcanic Spray

Congratulations Nick, Eric English and Jess Pyka also placed 20th and 36th respectively piloting identical lists. No Mono-U durdle.dec in the top 40.

[somethingdotdotdot]

A couple of questions to anyone who has tried that URb version of omni-tell:

1) Has the black splash's added versatility been enough to offset the inherent weakness to wasteland given you add an additional color?

2) How often do you end up using each of the wish targets and have you ever wanted to just reduce the singletons for a more consistent "real" sideboard?

[tescrin]

I'm guessing they don't need it. He's addressing most hate via different lines a-la Doomsday. Rather than have a strong sideboard strat, it has a mainboard strat that still works post-side. Similar to Doomsday, I'm guessing it takes a lot of getting used to the different lines (although I imagine it's much simpler since the number of hoops for each line is shorter and you can't, for instance, build a bad pile by thinking backwards.)

[KobeBryan]

UR Omni-Tell, by Nick Cummings
7th place at SCG Philly on 1/11/2015

Maindeck:
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Intuition
2 Izzet Charm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Burning Wish
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Show and Tell

3 Island
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
2 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Firebolt
1 Massacre
1 Overmaster
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell
1 Thoughtseize
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Void Snare
1 Volcanic Spray

Congratulations Nick, Eric English and Jess Pyka also placed 20th and 36th respectively piloting identical lists. No Mono-U durdle.dec in the top 40.

Problem with this deck is it cannot stop a chalice for 1, and if there is a chalice in play, it cannot bounce it with anything. The cunning wish version plays rushing river, wipeaway.

[emidln]

Problem with this deck is it cannot stop a chalice for 1, and if there is a chalice in play, it cannot bounce it with anything. The cunning wish version plays rushing river, wipeaway.

Why does it need to? If it has a Wish, it goes to find Show and Tell. Instead of casting Meltdown/Shattering Spree/whatever next turn, it can pretty easily just win the game. It has 3 SnT, 4 Wish, 2 Intuition, also allowing for the ability to either Force it or to use cantrips (throwing them into chalice @ 1) to cheapen Dig through Time. Once you actually cast SnT, Chalice @ 1 seems only mildly annoying.

[KobeBryan]

Why does it need to? If it has a Wish, it goes to find Show and Tell. Instead of casting Meltdown/Shattering Spree/whatever next turn, it can pretty easily just win the game. It has 3 SnT, 4 Wish, 2 Intuition, also allowing for the ability to either Force it or to use cantrips (throwing them into chalice @ 1) to cheapen Dig through Time. Once you actually cast SnT, Chalice @ 1 seems only mildly annoying.

I guess it does make sense. The pyros and burn take care of meddling mage and once that is gone, chalice doesn't stop you. I did see some idiot do chalice for 3 once on a stompy deck.

[emidln]

I guess it does make sense. The pyros and burn take care of meddling mage and once that is gone, chalice doesn't stop you. I did see some idiot do chalice for 3 once on a stompy deck.

The deck could theoretically beat Chalice @ 3 via Wish->Overmaster and then Overmaster pre-SnT.

[phazonmutant]

The deck could theoretically beat Chalice @ 3 via Wish->Overmaster and then Overmaster pre-SnT.

That's a sick line.

What do you think of this list compared to the U/b one you worked on with Lejay?

[death]

Thoughts on Magical Hack and Trait Doctoring (wish targets) as tech against Choke?

[KobeBryan]

Thoughts on Magical Hack and Trait Doctoring (wish targets) as tech against Choke?

Trait doctoring looks good and better than reanimate

[Mockingbird]

Thoughts on Magical Hack and Trait Doctoring (wish targets) as tech against Choke?

How would Trait Doctoring solve Choke when it can't be in effect during the untap? Magical Hack would be great at backfiring Choke. I just wish it could be Burning Wished...

[KobeBryan]

How would Trait Doctoring solve Choke when it can't be in effect during the untap? Magical Hack would be great at backfiring Choke. I just wish it could be Burning Wished...

oh didn't catch that. magical hack is old school, but not sorcery

[chinEsE girl]

So I was the dude who placed 20th. I originally got my list from Nick (guy who top 8d) and I shipped the 75 to my friend Jeff who was in top 8 contention up until round 14 when he lost against Fabiano. In my opinion the black splash is definitely worth it. The thoughtseize was clutch all weekend, clearing out cards my opponents thought would stop omniscience after S&T. It's incredibly hard to beat something like venser with this particular version, but thoughtseize does exactly what you want. It's also a good target to wish against other combo to combo ish decks like 12 post where you just need to keep them off balance long enough to assemble the right cards. The massacre is also great, it KOs a large number of decks that play stoneforge mystic. And as far as the mana base I'd concerned, I think it's super solid even with the black splash. I already have all the fetches, volcs, basics, and sol lands that I realistically want in the deck. The me the black splash feels very free. I've even considered adding another fetch instead of the 3rd basic but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

The reanimate was the spicy choice for the weekend, it might not be the best thing for that slot we're still trying to figure it out. The one real change moving forward is the firebolt is turning into a shattering spree. I had a few instances where I wanted spree and I have never wanted firebolt in the 2 weekends I've played this deck. If anyone has any other good suggestions for good antiartifact wish targets I'm all ears. Aside from this 2 slots, all the other wish targets have gotten plenty of use. I'm happy with 13 cards in the sideboard right now, it's just the spree and reanimate slots which are up for debate.

One last thing, while cute I don't think the trait doctoring idea is very good. The only somewhat common application it has is against choke, which is an annoying cards but far from unbeatable. I'm not interested in wasting a sideboard slot on something so low impact. I'll be keeping the reanimate for now, but the spot could certainly become something better if I find something else.

[death]

Main board Spell Pierces instead of Flusterstorm helps, but your mulliganing decisions greatly affect that matchup. Cunning Wish > Rack and Ruin or Burning Wish > Meltdown seems neat. Shattering Spree requires tons of red mana if you need to destroy at least 2 with Chalice @ 1. Pulverize is another option if you run at least 3 Volcanic Island but a well-timed Wasteland can hurt this plan.

[arj]

Interesting list. I'm wondering how you win after you resolve enter the infinite?

Also what decks do you board treasure cruise in against? Miracles?

[somethingdotdotdot]

After you cast ETI, you have 2 emrakuls you can loop for infinite turns. However, there is no answer to a chalice @ 1 and an ensnaring bridge on the field with the emrakul win condition. Treasure cruise is also mostly to turn burning wish into a 1RU draw 3.

[KobeBryan]

There should be a secondary win condition after emmy.

The Mono U version has release the ants and emmy as two different win cons in case one drops leyline and/or ensnaring bridge.

[death]

I've put the two decklists together and updated the primer so people can compare. My version has an alternate win con, instant speed even. But since it has been ignored mostly, let's leave it out of the discussion.

1 Spiraling Embers in the sideboard as wish target would solve any issues that concern the Emrakul plan.

[KobeBryan]

I've put the two decklists together and updated the primer so people can compare. My version has an alternate win con, instant speed even. But since it has been ignored mostly, let's leave it out of the discussion.

1 Spiraling Embers in the sideboard as wish target would solve any issues that concern the Emrakul plan.

Thats' socery's release the ants. It may work.

[KobeBryan]

tried playtesting. i'm missing trickbind to stop oblivion rings

[death]

If you're playing the version with Cunning Wish -> Firemind's Foresight -> Cunning Wish + Split Decision + Flusterstorm -> False Cure + Beacon of Immortality = GG.

Or you can Cunning Wish -> Trickbind that will give you more time to durdle around. With DTT it even gets better.

[KobeBryan]

If you're playing the version with Cunning Wish -> Firemind's Foresight -> Cunning Wish + Split Decision + Flusterstorm -> False Cure + Beacon of Immortality = GG.

Or you can Cunning Wish -> Trickbind that will give you more time to durdle around. With DTT it even gets better.

I tried playing UR so no trick bind.

I also tried playing your double wish deck. Its beyond fragile to discard with no dig through time to save you

[guillemnicolau]

Yesterday I played an 81 players tournament, so here's a little report, enjoy:

Maindeck
Sorceries (16) ----------------
4 Burning Wish
3 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
2 Gitaxian Probe
Instants (15) -----------------
3 Cunning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
2 Intuition
Enchantments (4) -----------
4 Omniscience
Creatures (4) ----------------
4 Emrakul, the aeons torn
Lands (21) -------------------
5 Island
1 Mountain
2 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
--------------------------------
Sideboard (15)
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Through the breach
1 Trickbind
1 Release the Ants
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Show and Tell
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Void Snare
1 Pyroclasm
2 Boseiju who shelters all
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Intuition

I decided to take out the petals, as I don't think they are really needed, they are a bad topdeck, and this version doesn't need to be so much explosive, as it's more stable thanks to the BW. I added the 21st land, 2 flusters (as I expected more combo) and the 2nd intuition.

Round 1 - Miracles
I know the guy and he always plays UW, sometimes miracles, sometimes stoneblade..
He wins the dice.
G1 he starts with top, but doesn't find counterbalance in the whole game, at one point I play S&T, with fow backup, and 2 untaped islands, he has 4 cards, which are 2 fow and 2 other blue cards, so I cannot win, but the next turn I play cunning to noxious and GG.
G2 I start with island ponder, he starts with top t1, CB t2, but I have the boseiju, so not much to say, at one point I have 2 omnisciences in play and I just draw until I find a WC.
Boseiju is too good in this matchup..
(2-0. 1-0-0)
Round 2 - Aluren
I know the guy but he always plays weird decks, so I don't know exactly what he's playing..
He wins the dice (It seems it's not my lucky day).
G1 he starts t1 veteran, turn 2 veteran, cabal th. cabal th., but I'm able to win as he starts naming sneak attack with the 1st cabal, but I have a hand of BS, fluster, intuition, fow, ponder, burning wish, omniscience. When he plays the FB of the cabal I play the fluster (in response to the veteran triger, so he cannot pay), then he plays the 2nd cabal, I play the fow with ponder, he plays the FB and I hide the omniscience with the brainstorm, so he takes the intuition. Next turn he has given me to many lands, so I can play BW to S&T, omniscience, and win with emrakul.
G2 he starts again with veteran, cabal, and I'm not fast enough finding the S&T, so I lose to aluren and the combo birds..
G3 I have a good hand and I can win with S&T, omni, emra on t2..
Not much to say, it's not a pairing that you can expect very often, so you need some good draws and knowing what his deck does (it's not a tier1, but can win against any deck)
(2-1. 2-0-0)
Round 3 - Goblins
He wins the dice (yes, again...)
G1 he starts with lackey, which I have to counter with fow, I play ponder, he plays another lackey which I cannot counter, and on turn 4 he kills me with lackey, chieftain, piledriver (played with cavern..), and I have a hand of S&T, omni, emra, intuition, so yes, I lost to the dice..
G2 is similar, I think I'm able to hit once with an emrakul, but he has to many threads and I'm already at 2 life, so he just sacrifices what he doesn't need and kill me with a chieftain.
I thought this matchup was not bad, but it's not a piece of cake, you have to run a lot, like against burn. This player top8'd, it seems yesterday was goblin day.
(0-2. 2-1-0)
Round 4 - BUG
He wins the dice (wtf)
G1 he starts with chaman, tarmogoyf, shardless to ancestral visions, baleful.. but no counters, so at one poing I have to attack, leaving him with a baleful which kills my emrakul, but after annihilator it's too hard to face me.
G2 is similar, I'm able to play S&T, having another S&T, emra, 2 fow 1 cunning wish, gets a fow, and I play fow removing cuning, waiting for a blue card on next turn. Next turn I draw a ponder I think, I play the second S&T to emra, which enters, and when he plays lili in this turn I have the fow with ponder.
Really good draws make every game much easier..
(2-0. 3-1-0)
Round 5 - Jund
I don't remember much of the round, he was playing punishing jund, which is a good pairing as he doesn't have as much discard, and I'm able to win with emrakul in both games. (and yes, he won the dice, what the hell is hapening)
(2-0. 4-1-0)
Round 6 - MUD
At this poing I have to play against a friend, so before the game, as the one who wins will top8, we settle that we'll go 50%-50% on the prize.
He wins the dice (yes, AGAIN, 6 times in a row ;.;)
G1 he starts with chalice to 1, which gets fow'd, and next turn he plays trini, which gets in. I finally can play the s&t to emrakul, but he has the blightsteel in hand (-.-), he plays spine of ish sah on emrakul, and wins..
G2 I have a hand of s&t, omni, emra, emra, so I win on turn 2 (after having to CW -> trickbind his spine of ish sah when we puts it into play with the S&T..)
G3 it's tough, i have S&T, omni, emra, but he has a trinisphere into play, so I have to decide which one to play as I cannot play both on the same turn. I decide to put emra as it can block the blightsteel, but he comboes with metalworker-staff of domination that same turn, so I lose..
MUD is not a good matchup when yu play any kind of combo, but it's not impossible to win when playing omnitell. The blighsteel on 1st game and trini on 3rd game where the cards that defeated me.
(2-1. 4-2-0)
Round 7 - Jund
At that point, and looking at the standings, there's no way I can top8, and I play shitty games, losing 1-2 in the end. Oh, and I won the dice in this round, finally xD
(1-2. 4-3-0)

It's weird that I didn't have to chance to combo with enter the infinite in the whole tournament, but I think the list is quite good, the games that I lost were not easy, and always going on the draw when playing combo it's not good..
Overall it was a nice tournament, and the friend from round 6 finished 2nd, so I got some money, which is always nice :)

[shawntown]

Hey guys. GP NJ I was able to cash on mono U Omnitell (not RtA, just 3 Emmy-attack plan). The 3 matches I did lose that weekend were due to one of two things: a) Meddling Mage or b) not finding S&T after many cantrips. With just 4 win-enablers, it's gonna happen. Don't get me wrong, I never longed for Dream Halls. It's too slow. But I did want more consistency. Clearly, you can win 11 or 12 matches with just 4 enablers. With luck and variance, I don't know that you can win 14 and top 8. Cashing in my first event was nice, but it's not the goal.

So, since Wasteland had practically vanished, my friend suggested adding an Underground Sea for Massacre. Then I found out about Burning Wish (had never heard of it before). So now there's 7 S&T. All the iterations I've been playing since have been UR. I went 7-2 day 1 at SCG Philly, and then had an epic 0-4 meltdown day 2. Sometimes you just get your butt kicked. Nothing went right.

Couple things.

1) Thoughtseize seemed like it would be good, but honestly, more often than not I'd look at my opponent's hand, not care what was in it (just see that it was safe to cast S&T), and regret wasting mana on it (i.e. missed having Probe), since that 1 mana caused me to have to wait till the following turn to win. This problem cost me 2 games on day 2, and just not having Probe contributed to about half my losses. I was playing 3 MD Thoughtseize back then. Now, I'm back on Probe to stay. Legacy is such a chess match, and the margin for error so tight---1 life here, 1 mana there...I dunno. The 1-of Thoughtseize in the board can be Wished for if need be, and I have done so a few times.

2) Again, on Day 2 I was missing Cunning Wish. I lost 2 games that I likely would've won if I could have CW > Trickbind with a trigger on the stack (1 Ashen Rider, and 1 Flickerwisp did me in.) These situations don't come up a ton, but when they do, I straight up lose w/out CW and win with CW.

3) In between GPNJ and SCG Philly, I played in a little event with a Personal Tutor version and did poorly. Personal Tutor is trash. Card disadvantage is crippling in a format where 1 mana or 1 life point is often the difference between winning and losing. It's clunky, slow, and they have a whole turn to respond.

In my 3 tournaments, I've learned 2 absolute truths in this format. 1) You can't cover everything with 15 cards, so you need to be versatile. And, 2) 1 Mana is HUGE. Every mana I can save is literally more wins. (Assuming I play well/tight, and accurately assess my opponent)

This is my current list. With Wasteland and Deathrite making comebacks (e.g. Davis's SCG-winning BUG Delver deck), I thought I'd have to go back to Mono U. But that hasn't been my experience so far. I'm doing fairly well against Stifle/Wasteland. Main changes are Probes-in, Thoughtseizes-out. CW back in. MD Bosejiu-out for another Island. And Daze. Took out a Preordain, a Petal, and Flusterstorms.

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
3 Show & Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Cunning Wish
4 Burning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
3 Dig Through Time
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Lotus Petal

4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforests
3 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Tomb

SB
(cards I board in)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Bosejiu, Who Shelters All
1 Flusterstorm

(CW)
1 Intuition
1 Release the Ants
1 Pact of Negation
1 Trickbind
1 Noxious Revival

(BW)
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Show & Tell
1 Massacre
1 Thoughtseize
1 Overmaster

With Wasteland back and Cruise banned, I'm not sure about Bosejiu vs. Defense Grid. I never played Legacy before Khans of Tarkir, so I'm not sure what to expect from the field. I was eating UR Delver decks for lunch the last 4 months. We'll see. Bosejiu is awful against BUG Delver. OR Sultai, whatever it's called.

My pal says that Cunning Wish is a crutch that weak players aren't willing to let go of, and that with experience and skilled play, matches can be won without needing to waste slots on it. Maybe, maybe not. I don't often cast it for an answer. Usually, it's Intuition > Emmy or Intuition > BW > Enter the Inf. But it is nice to know you can Dig > CW > Trickbind if ya need it!

Daze is awesome. Just the threat of it in G2 and G3 can cause people to misplay or put an extra turn on your clock when they shouldn't. I've tried MD Flusterstorm, MD Misdirection, MD Pact, MD Spell Pierce...I like Daze 100%. Aside from Force of Will, no other counterspell allows you to manipulate and play the Inner Game like Daze.

That's my two cents. Sorry for the length. I just love talking about this deck and Legacy in general.

[codegoblin]

I gotta go on record here ...

Of all the decks I've ever piloted, this deck is the ultimate fuck nuts. How this isn't on the decks to beat I am slightly surprised. Anyways, here's my story:

Legacy Guy, for reals, and I recently top 8'd 3 Los Angeles Tournaments, one of them 1st place in a GPT for the GP in Kyoto ... though I can't use the buys I earned (I would totally be on a plane if there was space for me in the tourney!), and, anyways I think this is just the high of the highs:

4 Dig Through Time
2 Izzet Charm
4 Omniscience
2 Flusterstorm
4 Preordain
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Ponder
2 Polluted Delta
4 Burning Wish
3 Island
4 Brainstorm
3 Show and Tell
2 City of Traitors
2 Intuition
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Force of Will
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Void Snare
SB: 1 Enter the Infinite
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Keranos, God of Storms
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Overmaster
SB: 1 Extract
SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

before you ask ... the card to name with the sb Extract is Tendrils of Agony ... if the mirror/SnT is the deal in your meta, play Slaughter Games instead

Any comments/questions appreciated!

[Ragdoll]

I gotta go on record here ...

Of all the decks I've ever piloted, this deck is the ultimate fuck nuts. How this isn't on the decks to beat I am slightly surprised. Anyways, here's my story:

Legacy Guy, for reals, and I recently top 8'd 3 Los Angeles Tournaments, one of them 1st place in a GPT for the GP in Kyoto ... though I can't use the buys I earned (I would totally be on a plane if there was space for me in the tourney!), and, anyways I think this is just the high of the highs:

4 Dig Through Time
2 Izzet Charm
4 Omniscience
2 Flusterstorm
4 Preordain
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Ponder
2 Polluted Delta
4 Burning Wish
3 Island
4 Brainstorm
3 Show and Tell
2 City of Traitors
2 Intuition
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Force of Will
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Void Snare
SB: 1 Enter the Infinite
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Keranos, God of Storms
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Overmaster
SB: 1 Extract
SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

before you ask ... the card to name with the sb Extract is Tendrils of Agony ... if the mirror/SnT is the deal in your meta, play Slaughter Games instead

Any comments/questions appreciated!

:really: What were your matchups? Did you face all of the meta with the deck :)?

[KobeBryan]

I've been playing this deck and Eureka Tell for a bit on cockatrice.

One problem I had was permanent non-creature based hate. Anyway we can mitigate this?

Cheese
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Support
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Cunning Wish
3 Burning Wish
3 Show and Tell
3 Dig Through Time
1 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Misdirection

Lands
2 Crystal Vein
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest

SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 1 Enter the Infinite
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Dig Through Time
SB: 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Misdirection
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Sudden Shock
SB: 1 Spiraling Embers
SB: 2 Defense Grid

[Karhumies]

I've been playing this deck and Eureka Tell for a bit on cockatrice.

One problem I had was permanent non-creature based hate. Anyway we can mitigate this?

Ensnaring Bridge? Humility? Leyline of Sanctity?
2x Bounce in the SB should fix this. Wipe Away / Echoing Truth / Rushing River as C.Wish target and Void Snare as a B.Wish target

[KobeBryan]

Ensnaring Bridge? Humility? Leyline of Sanctity?
2x Bounce in the SB should fix this. Wipe Away / Echoing Truth / Rushing River as C.Wish target and Void Snare as a B.Wish target

No space bro.

[Karhumies]

No space bro.

Double Pyroclasm over 1 pyro + 1 bounce? Do as you like, bro.

[KobeBryan]

went 3-1 yesterday with this double wish build on cockatrice. Will continue to test.

bug delver (0-2) - game 1 - turn 1 thoughtseize, turn 2 hymn, turn 3 liliana. I think thats a god hand. Game 2 - He packs it with discard and counters. Eventually i drop to a 1 hander while he has a liliana on the board. Suffice to say, this is a 2 card combo deck.

Rock (2-0) - game 1 - turn 2 show and tell omniscience. Blow out. Game 2 - after several turns, i drop a show and tell omni. He drops a reclamation sage. I respond with cunning wish, trick bind, then drop DTT. Game over. This guy then rages about me getting some god hands, but i told him i had 5 cantrips in my gy already.

Lands (2-1) - Game 1. He locks me out with rishidian port. 3 ports on my 3 islands. Wastes my other crap. I could have won this one. I had a tomb in hand, a mountain out and he continues to port my 3 islands. I misplayed and cunning wished a DTT. Had I cunning wished for a trick bind, I can trickbind one port on a free island, then drop my tomb out for a show and tell omnscience and some ponders and digs. Misplay on my end. Didn't realize this line of play until afterwards. Game 2 - Turn 2 blow out. Game 3 - turn 4 blow out.

Worldgorger dragon combo (2-1) Game 1 he gets me with piranha marsh. game 2 - I blow him out with a turn 3 kill. He has lots of lands that come into play tapped. Game 3 - almost the same situation as the 2nd game except I surgical his world gorger.

I'm really liking this double wish build. I don't think you need more than 3 burning wish. Its slow and all the cunning wish helps get the combo anyways. You just have to make sure you have enough burning wish for Enter the infinite after you get a show and tell with one. But then again, with this cunning wish build, I can just go for more DTT in the board and search for emrakuls.

[iamajellydonut]

Rock (2-0) - game 1 - turn 2 show and tell omniscience. Blow out. Game 2 - after several turns, i drop a show and tell omni. He drops a reclamation sage. I respond with cunning wish, trick bind, then drop DTT. Game over. This guy then rages about me getting some god hands, but i told him i had 5 cantrips in my gy already.

This was me. OmniTell is my second worst match-up (after SnS), and, since you only revealed Burning Wish in game one, my singular comment began and ended with me being incredulous that you would run both Burning Wish and Cunning Wish.

Looking at these lists, I am still finding it difficult to understand what the advantage is.

[KobeBryan]

This was me. OmniTell is my second worst match-up (after SnS), and, since you only revealed Burning Wish in game one, my comment was to the effect of being incredulous that you would run both Burning Wish and Cunning Wish.

Looking at these lists, I am still finding it difficult to understand what the advantage is.

Testing and practice.

Helps prevent surgical effects that kill all your show and tells in your library. The burning wish is essentially show and tell 5-7. Can also be used to hate on hatebears.

[Karhumies]

Helps prevent surgical effects that kill all your show and tells in your library.

This. It's typically either Dream Halls, B.Wish or Eureka.

[YamiJoey]

@Kobe: I'll probably try running your list or something very similar at my next event. I played a Cunning-less version on Friday (I have none) and will be looking to play this deck properly next time. Couple of things:

3 of each Wish: Why? I am currently on 4 Burning, 3 Cunning, as Burning Wish is so important for ensuring you can grab Show and Tell.

1 Fluster/2 Pierce/1 Misdirection: What drove you to these numbers of things? I'm usuay seeing people playing double Flusterstorm, but none of the rest. I understand what the other cards do, but why specifically this set-up.

Also, I like Spirraling Embers tech. Has it ever come up?

[B4L4]

Currently trying to get the best of both worlds :

/Enabler (11)
4 Burning Wish
3 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
/Kill (11)
4 Omniscience
4 Griselbrand
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
/Cantrip (10)
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
/Cantrip-Kill (4)
4 Dig Through Time
/Permission (4)
4 Force of Will
/Acceleration (2)
2 Lotus Petal
/Lands(18)
3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Mountain
3 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand

/Sideboard (15)
1 Show and Tell
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Shattering Spree
2 Overmaster
2 Void Snare
2 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast

Good consistency with 11 way to get going : 3x 3ccm, 4x (4+1)ccm & 4x(2+3)ccm.
Though a bit low on permission with only 4 FoW.
Dig is just amazing in this deck

[YamiJoey]

This is the list I'm running right now. Cunning Wish has basically never been good, but maybe I've not faced the decks I want it against.

Spells: 32
1 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Preordane
4 Burning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Dig Through Time

Permanents: 9
3 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn

Lands: 19
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Crystal Vein
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard
Sorceries: 7
1 Void Snare
2 Pyroclasm
1 Time of Need
1 Show and Tell
1 Spiralling Embers
1 Enter the Infinite

Other: 8
1 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Defense Grid



Mainboard counters: 1 Pact of Negation, 2 Flusterstorm, 4 Force of Will, and 2 Misdirection. Extremely cheap pieces of interaction designed exclusively to Protect my combo, or make my combo generally safe. The single Pact has yet to come into play, and it may be risky, but if you have the combo it will seal the deal.

Cantrips: 4 Brainstorm, 4 Gitaxian Probe, 4 Ponder, and 3 Preordane. The preordane was the cut for space when my deck made 61 cards. 15 cantrips still seems good enough. Hell, Storm only plays 10.

Tutors: 4 Burning Wish, and 4 Dig Through Time. Wishes are also copies 4-7 of Show and Tell, and are also my main kill condition post Omniscience. Dig is the most powerful dig Spell in the format.

Combo pieces: 3 Show and Tell, 4 Omniscience, and 2 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn. Show and Tell and Omni for the wins, with an extra Emrakul added. It gives more back end pieces, so now I have a 7/6 split on my two card combo, closer matching the 8/8 Sneak has. I find that having enough back end is important.

Actual board cards: 3 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All, 2 Defense Grid, and 2 Pyroclasms. Usually only 1 'Clasm moves, but two can be brought in if you don'y want to rely on Wish for the second. Grid an Boseiju come in against the Blue decks in G2 when they pack more counters. REB kills Force of Will.

Wish targets: 1 Void Snare, 1 Living Wish, (for Rune-Scarred Demon) 2 Pyroclasm, 1 Show and Tell, 1 Spiralling Embers, and 1 Enter the Infinite. Snare kills any hate card we may need to deal with for a very low cost, and I am not above paying 3 mana to Wish for it, then Force whatever the card was on the way back down. Clasms are good at beating up Creatures, Show is a Show, EtI kills on the spot in more games. Spiralling Embers kills if they deal with Emrakul in some way. Omni -> Burning Wish -> Living Wish -> Demon -> Emrakul is 20 Flying Annihilator 6 on an extra turn. Mainly for if they have Spirit of the Labyrinth/Notion Thief/Something of that description.

[P-E]

Maybe Time of need is better than living wish as it frees one slot in side.
Most of Times omni into emrakul is gg

[Valtrix]

Perhaps there's a nonzero number of times where burning wish for living wish for Boseiju matters? :P (With all that green mana.)

[YamiJoey]

I did not know that card existed! The only issue then is that I don't get to play Rune-Scarred Demon.

Extra slot can be a Flusterstorm, I think. Card is so OP.

[KobeBryan]

This is the list I'm running right now. Cunning Wish has basically never been good, but maybe I've not faced the decks I want it against.

Spells: 32
1 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Preordane
4 Burning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Dig Through Time

Permanents: 9
3 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn

Lands: 19
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Crystal Vein
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard
Sorceries: 7
1 Void Snare
2 Pyroclasm
1 Time of Need
1 Show and Tell
1 Spiralling Embers
1 Enter the Infinite

Other: 8
1 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Defense Grid



Mainboard counters: 1 Pact of Negation, 2 Flusterstorm, 4 Force of Will, and 2 Misdirection. Extremely cheap pieces of interaction designed exclusively to Protect my combo, or make my combo generally safe. The single Pact has yet to come into play, and it may be risky, but if you have the combo it will seal the deal.

Cantrips: 4 Brainstorm, 4 Gitaxian Probe, 4 Ponder, and 3 Preordane. The preordane was the cut for space when my deck made 61 cards. 15 cantrips still seems good enough. Hell, Storm only plays 10.

Tutors: 4 Burning Wish, and 4 Dig Through Time. Wishes are also copies 4-7 of Show and Tell, and are also my main kill condition post Omniscience. Dig is the most powerful dig Spell in the format.

Combo pieces: 3 Show and Tell, 4 Omniscience, and 2 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn. Show and Tell and Omni for the wins, with an extra Emrakul added. It gives more back end pieces, so now I have a 7/6 split on my two card combo, closer matching the 8/8 Sneak has. I find that having enough back end is important.

Actual board cards: 3 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All, 2 Defense Grid, and 2 Pyroclasms. Usually only 1 'Clasm moves, but two can be brought in if you don'y want to rely on Wish for the second. Grid an Boseiju come in against the Blue decks in G2 when they pack more counters. REB kills Force of Will.

Wish targets: 1 Void Snare, 1 Living Wish, (for Rune-Scarred Demon) 2 Pyroclasm, 1 Show and Tell, 1 Spiralling Embers, and 1 Enter the Infinite. Snare kills any hate card we may need to deal with for a very low cost, and I am not above paying 3 mana to Wish for it, then Force whatever the card was on the way back down. Clasms are good at beating up Creatures, Show is a Show, EtI kills on the spot in more games. Spiralling Embers kills if they deal with Emrakul in some way. Omni -> Burning Wish -> Living Wish -> Demon -> Emrakul is 20 Flying Annihilator 6 on an extra turn. Mainly for if they have Spirit of the Labyrinth/Notion Thief/Something of that description.

You're probably not facing enough death and taxes for the cunning wish to take effect.

[Karhumies]

1 Fluster/2 Pierce/1 Misdirection: What drove you to these numbers of things? I'm usuay seeing people playing double Flusterstorm, but none of the rest. I understand what the other cards do, but why specifically this set-up.

Spell Pierce hits Pithing Needle and Liliana; Flusterstorm does not. Against D&T, hitting their Vial with Pierce can also be relevant because they tend to drop a lot of hate bears with the acceleration.

Misdirection is "FoW #5" in a counter war with the additional benefit of occasionally deflecting back an opposing Hymn to Tourach / spot discard.

Choosing your split is meta dependant.

[YamiJoey]

Sorry, why do we need Cunning Wish Vs DnT? What am I missing? Surely a 3 mana tutor is way worse than a 2-mana tutor against the Thalia/Port/Wasteland deck.

[Ragdoll]

Sorry, why do we need Cunning Wish Vs DnT? What am I missing? Surely a 3 mana tutor is way worse than a 2-mana tutor against the Thalia/Port/Wasteland deck.

Response to: Oblivion ring/Flickerwisp/aether vial activation. Those can be a pain in the ass for every omnitell variant

[Karhumies]

Sorry, why do we need Cunning Wish Vs DnT? What am I missing? Surely a 3 mana tutor is way worse than a 2-mana tutor against the Thalia/Port/Wasteland deck.

In my last tournament, I played SnT->Omniscience, opponent dropped a Flickerwisp off of that SnT targeting Omni with EtB trigger. Opponent had lethal power creatures on the board. I responded with DTT->DTT->DTT->C.Wish->Trickbind Flickerwisp trigger before I could easycast my Emrakul found with one of the digs.

[KobeBryan]

In my last tournament, I played SnT->Omniscience, opponent dropped a Flickerwisp off of that SnT targeting Omni with EtB trigger. Opponent had lethal power creatures on the board. I responded with DTT->DTT->DTT->C.Wish->Trickbind Flickerwisp trigger before I could easycast my Emrakul found with one of the digs.

That is usually the line of play against DNT

[Lans89]

In my last tournament, I played SnT->Omniscience, opponent dropped a Flickerwisp off of that SnT targeting Omni with EtB trigger. Opponent had lethal power creatures on the board. I responded with DTT->DTT->DTT->C.Wish->Trickbind Flickerwisp trigger before I could easycast my Emrakul found with one of the digs.

What I did was even more sexy! Game 2 (Trickbind sided in):

Show and Tell into Omniscience, opponent puts down Flickerwisp (for lethal as well), I Cunning Wish --> Firemind's Foresight searching for Brainstorm, Trickbind and Cunning Wish --> Trickbind the Flickerwisp --> cast a ponder or something, opponent responds with Vial on 3 into another Flickerwisp --> I thought I was lost but had my sideboard face up on my deckbox with one sweet card on top, so to the Flickerwisp Trigger (could/should have been Vial) I respond by casting cunning wish getting Noxious Revival --> Noxious my Trickbind on top of my deck --> cast brainstorm to draw the trickbind and counter the Flickerwisp trigger --> Continue with ponder into some other cantrips/DTT/business and win that turn.

'Sponsored by sweet Firemind's Foresight and Noxious Revival :P'

Edit: But this is the BW thread and not the Cunning Wish thread :P But now you know how instant speed works out :D!