Owl Deck

[hagar852]

Here is my current list for a deck using Ebony Owl Netsuke..

Currently am leaning toward U/W for the Propaganda/Ghostly Prison approach.

I have been away from the game for quite sometime and am not aware of all the newer cards which could be used to help.. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.


4 Ebony Owl Netsuke (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ebony Owl Netsuke)
4 Howling Mine (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Howling Mine)
4 Remand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Remand)
4 Boomerang (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Boomerang)
4 Exhaustion (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Exhaustion)
2 Kami of the Crescent Moon (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Kami of the Crescent Moon)
3 Jace Beleren (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace Beleren)
2 Ghostly Prison (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ghostly Prison)
4 Hallowed Fountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Hallowed Fountain)
13 Island
2 Plains
4 Gigadrowse (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Gigadrowse)
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mikokoro, Center of the Sea)
3 Evacuation (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Evacuation)
4 Eye of Nowhere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Eye of Nowhere)
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Meloku the Clouded Mirror)
2 Propaganda (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Propaganda)

[cartoonist]

Legacy is rife with low casting cost cards. Those hands will empty faster than you can fill them. Burn in particular will eat this deck alive. You're providing your opponents card advantage, and you literally can't afford to give them even one extra card. However, this strategy would stand a chance if you include Solitary confinement, which only works with a Howling Mine on the board.

If you want to really want to hurt them, use cards like Arcane Laboratory, which limits them to one spell per turn. Or you could look at making it more expensive to cast spells through creatures like Thalia. that keeps cards in hand.

However, the more effective version of this strategy is Pox. Check that deck out. It aggressively denies your opponent resources in play and cards in hand. Many versions use The Rack to whittle those life totals down and finish opponents off. It's pretty affordable, and fairly competitive. Hunt down that thread and have a look.

[Phoenix Ignition]

However, this strategy would stand a chance if you include Solitary confinement, which only works with a Howling Mine on the board.


Not even, SC makes you skip your draw step, which is where you get your extra card from Howling Mine.

That said, this deck won't work. You just can't give people extra cards in Legacy.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

You can if you run Stasis.

Not this though.

[kwis]

I feel like you need 3sphere and stasis to make this viable. Black vise was the oldschool stasis kill.

[hagar852]

First of all, I did not mention in my post above that I was a new player. I said I have been away for a while (4-5years) and I am not familiar with all the new sets that have been released. I simply asked for card suggestions from the new sets, instead I get pointed in the other direction.

I am well aware of what of what was already suggested, and with one of the decks mentioned.

I will ask once again, what NEW cards could possibly be helpful in this list.

By the way this so far is not a final list... I am testing with what I currently own and am trying to keep costs down.. The core cards are already in place, I added Jace to the deck as a second win condition.

SB right now will be dealt with once I have the list closer to completion. Staying U/W gives me very powerful SB options..

Thanks

[catmint]

Still, I would appreciate the input the was provided.

If you want to have fun playing legacy with a budget deck there are much better options.

If you want to build a unique & funny casual deck I think you are in the wrong forum.

[hagar852]

if it was constructive and a little less assuming.

I disagree.

[JanoschEausH]

This is a hidden gem my friend: Overburden.

[cartoonist]

How were you pushed in another direction, may I ask? You were offered a number of cards that at least complemented your strategy - Solitary Confinement, Thalia, Stasis, Trinisphere, etc... Back to Basics might help, but not too much. Truth be told, there aren't a lot of cards from newer sets that work here. Wizards has been phasing out this type of strategy for years.

You were offered an alternative deck that has a fairly similar strategy that will see cards that will support that approach in the future. If you want to be competitive, this might be a better direction to go. This build that involves giving your opponent cards will not work well unless you can lock those cards in their hand with something like Arcane Laboratory. Otherwise, they'll put those extra cards to use while you're laying out more Howling Mines.

[hagar852]

How were you pushed in another direction, may I ask? You were offered a number of cards that at least complemented your strategy - Solitary Confinement, Thalia, Stasis, Trinisphere, etc... Back to Basics might help, but not too much. Truth be told, there aren't a lot of cards from newer sets that work here. Wizards has been phasing out this type of strategy for years.

You were offered an alternative deck that has a fairly similar strategy that will see cards that will support that approach in the future. If you want to be competitive, this might be a better direction to go. This build that involves giving your opponent cards will not work well unless you can lock those cards in their hand with something like Arcane Laboratory. Otherwise, they'll put those extra cards to use while you're laying out more Howling Mines.

Appreciate the advise, but I think you are missing how the deck is played. Gigadrowse and exhaustion are nasty combination, gigadrowse lands during thier upkeep.. if they are able to play something, and or attack then you exhaust them... stall stall stall.. Ghostly prison helps with the stalling since they must use resources to do damage..

As far as burn, well that is what the SB will be for, as well as control decks I would assume. Most decks in my meta are aggro, hence a lot of anti-aggro MD..

I have thought about using some type of Mox but haven't had a lot of luck with it.. Chrome mox makes me pitch a card that I NEED usually.. With this deck, it is crucial that you maintain the stall tempo.. One missed turn could mean the game..

I will look at the above suggestion along with Winter Orb as well.. I think the deck has potential and I will continue to test it..

Thanks for the reply

[LurkingMatt]

Hi.

According to you statement you where out for a few years,
ending with this deck I suppose.

The list you proposed was:


4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Howling Mine
4 Remand
4 Boomerang
4 Exhaustion
2 Kami of the Crescent Moon
3 Jace Beleren
2 Ghostly Prison
4 Hallowed Fountain
13 Island
2 Plains
4 Gigadrowse
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
3 Evacuation
4 Eye of Nowhere
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Propaganda


So let's see what we can find.
Since I came back myself, there might be a few things we "could" discover.

First of, I am not quiet sure, I like the White Splash since that leaves us only
with one kill option atm. Red or Green seem to have more "fun" with this deck
(*sigh* Storm Seeker was da man).

But you want alternatives.

Let's hope, this tags work!
White (your splashcolor)
Gideon Jura (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Gideon%20Jura) , a defensive Plainswalker to help surviving.
Porphyr Node (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Porphyr%20Node) is a Drop of Honey in White.
There is a white Word of ... like those Words of War (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Words%20of%20War). Life gain garantueed.

The only other things I could find in white is SB material, like Celestial Purge, StP, Disenchants.

Blue now holds
Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce), a cheap counter
Into the Roil (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Into%20the%20Roil), a versatile nonland Bouncer
Devastation Tide (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Devastation%20Tide), a versatile nonland Mass Bouncer which is hard to set up with that much card drawing, but possible,
Counterbalance (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Counterbalance), as a Denial Piece to slow the mdown even further
Jace, the Mind Sculptor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace,%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor), a versatile Creatuer Bouncer and winning condition
Tamiyo, the new blue Planeswalker
Jace 3.0

There is also a Blue "Kismet" which could be deployed but is too slow I think.

I hope you have a few suggestions fitting the deck.

If I would be allowed to ask: Could we change the splash to green?
This way we would gain another WinCon, ramp, and more disruption, like
Moment's Peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Moment's%20Peace)

[ahg113]

For the heck of it... there's also the blue version Words of Wind. It hits you too, but you could make them bounce filling their hands back up.

And if you're looking for stalling tactics, I'm a big fan of Isochron Scepter - Orim's Chant/Silence. It's a good way to make them sit on their hand. Not should probably run a few more instants though besides the 8 you already have to make it really worthwhile. I'm thinking a Scepter or two, a mix of Chants, and Enlightened Tutor would be good. You're playing with both artifacts & enchantments, so the Tutor can pull double duty, be an imprint target. (Chants are also great at stopping storm combo's, resp to an on stack ramp spell.)

It doesn't appear as though you need to cast multiple spells in a turn, so something like Rule of Law seem to be in vogue as well (provided, that doesn't mess with the replicate mechanic of gigadrose...judge?)

[ahg113]

While we're at it, a miser copy of Mobilization could do you some good too. In a perfect world you could have this and Words of Wind out, and just bounce a token as not to lose board position. In an imperfect world, all those extra draws you get can be played lands. Mobilization gives you something to do with all that mana just sitting around.

[Jenni]

You should add something that prevents your opponent from just vomiting their entire hand onto the board.
Gigadrowsing lands and such is nice, for a while, but you wont always have one in your hand when you need it, and at some point, they'll untap with all those extra cards. So rule of law would probably help a lot.
you also could use some way to keep their stuff from doing things, making them stay tapped would be a good way to do this. Stasis, Static Orb, and Winter orb would all help in this regard, as well as Tamiyo, the moon sage.

since the big pieces of your combo are colourless, a Sol land or two might help out - Ancient tomb gets you a potential turn 1 owl, or turn 1 Howling mine, and can get static and winter orbs out faster too.

Force of will would be great in here... If you're playing heavy blue *and* drawing 2+ cards a turn, then there is little reason not to run forces (unless your budget wont allow for them, of course).

This deck of yours looks like the old standard Owling mine deck (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Standard_Owling_Mine_deck).

[LOurs]

Imo, the most important thing is to understand that a strategy based on an owl kill is a control strategy, and your list doesnt run enough control tool to make it work if you you consider the number of cards offered to your opponent.
Note that Black vise, beside being faster, could become a combo kill with a braingeyser-like effect where Netsuke just cant. It will be very difficult to make it work, if not impossible.

[hagar852]

I have revised the list after playing against a few decks with my friend.

Here is an updated list thus far..


2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Rule of Law
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Howling Mine
2 Jace Beleren
4 Gigadrowse
4 Boomerang
4 Exhaustion
3 Overburden
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Propaganda
14 Island
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Tundra
1 Plains
3 Evacuation
4 Remand


The toughest matchup so far has been Rock. Aggro decks I am able to hold off and stabilize against them, but disruption is my worst match up so far. I haven't put a SB together yet but I am looking at things like Leyline of Sanctity or Ivory mask.

I tried using Winter Orb, which works well slowing the other person down but it also slowed me down as well and I couldn't stay on top of keeping control.

Ancient Tomb I also tried but didn't have very good results, the damage taken was too much to handle. So I also tried chrome mox, but ditching cards to it proves to be tough as it seems I need every card I draw to use so I can keep the stall tempo going.

I thought about Vedalken shackles also in SB, Force of will I sold off a few years ago along with many other cards. So far that is why I have the white splash because it was my standard deck..

I am not opposed to splashing another color like red or green, and so far the suggestions for those colors are interesting, besides the sudden impact, which also works pretty well.

Thanks so far for all the suggestions.. Just so everyone knows I play goblins in Legacy but would like something different to run here and there.

Thanks again.

Hagar852

[LurkingMatt]

@LOurs - Black Vise is not legal in legacy. Otherwise anyone would consider
running it as one of, trust me. ;)


I have revised the list after playing against a few decks with my friend.

Here is an updated list thus far..


2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Rule of Law
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Howling Mine
2 Jace Beleren
4 Gigadrowse
4 Boomerang
4 Exhaustion
3 Overburden
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Propaganda
14 Island
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Tundra
1 Plains
3 Evacuation
4 Remand


The toughest matchup so far has been Rock. Aggro decks I am able to hold off and stabilize against them, but disruption is my worst match up so far. I haven't put a SB together yet but I am looking at things like Leyline of Sanctity or Ivory mask.

I tried using Winter Orb, which works well slowing the other person down but it also slowed me down as well and I couldn't stay on top of keeping control.

Ancient Tomb I also tried but didn't have very good results, the damage taken was too much to handle. So I also tried chrome mox, but ditching cards to it proves to be tough as it seems I need every card I draw to use so I can keep the stall tempo going.

I thought about Vedalken shackles also in SB, Force of will I sold off a few years ago along with many other cards. So far that is why I have the white splash because it was my standard deck..

I am not opposed to splashing another color like red or green, and so far the suggestions for those colors are interesting, besides the sudden impact, which also works pretty well.

Thanks so far for all the suggestions.. Just so everyone knows I play goblins in Legacy but would like something different to run here and there.

Thanks again.

Hagar852

OK, now we are getting somewhere.

This means you have a limited blue pool, a strong red aggro pool and some cards
thrown in for good measure.

The intention of this deck afaik is to hold the opponent at bay and slow him until you
have set up the kill, right?

With your only kill option being Ebony Owl Netsuke that can be hard vs control and black carrying deck alongside Snapcaster.dec
because of Extirpate and Surgical Extraction/ Memoricide .... you get the picture.

So lets assume we will splash red, black (vs combo or Megrim or green instead of white for a second to gain a second kill option.
Each of those give you another damage source (Sudden Impact/ that "your card in your hand thangy", Megrim or Storm Seeker).

To do just that, we first need to make this deck "monoblue" to add the components we
need.
Your current revision is on top.

3 Arcane Laboratory
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Howling Mine
2 Jace Beleren
4 Gigadrowse
4 Boomerang
4 Exhaustion
3 Overburden
4 Propaganda
14 Island
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
5 other lands
3 Evacuation
4 Remand


is the "bluecore" of your current version.

Since your plan is to "outcontrol" the other player via bounce,
I suggest the following changes for play testing:

Note that this is "as budgety" as I will get with this.
If you want to substitute those Fetch Lands and Volcanics
for Steam Vents, Shivan Reefs do it, but please do not discuss
it here. After all, we want to help you find the "optimal" Owling Deck.

:cool:

Also we should test with either Arcane Laboratoy or Overburden MD.
IMHO Arcane Laboratory would be better vs unfair decks, but Overburden
is cheaper to accomplish and thus better in an aggro heavy meta.



//Engine - 6
4 Howling Mine
2 Jace Beleren

//Creature Control - 6
2 Evacuation
4 Propaganda

//Mana Denial - 8
4 Overburden
4 Exhaustion

//Hand Control - 12
4 Eye of Nowhere
4 Boomerang
4 Remand

//Kill option(s) - 8
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Sudden Impact

//Manabase - 22
9 Island
4 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea

//Sideboard - 15
4 Spell Pierce
4 Gigadrowse
4 Arcane Laboratory
2 Twincast
1 Evacuation


Those are 62 Cards MD, I know.
This is why I asked for further playtesting to see if those
reductions of creature elements work and where we can
cut 2 cards.
Note that I included "normal" Bounce as was used in the old style
OwlingMine.dec since you can bounce their mana to slow them down
in their development.
Especially vs Tempo this is a smart move.

Thoughts about the sideboard:
Spell Pierce vs Problem decks w/o grave recursion or when more slow
is needed.
Gigadrowse vs Combo and mana hungry decks
Arcane Laboratory vs Aggro and Combo
Twincast for decks where you need to be fast but who lack counter
(e.g. PiF, Maverick)
Evacuation vs Aggro and specific combo (SnT.dec)

The sideboard could be loaded up with Smash to Smithereens,
Shattering Spree, Pyroclasm (or Volcanic Fallout), Mindbreak Trap(s) and at least one Ravenous Trap.
Also we "could" consider Archive Trap and Flusterstorm vs Combo.


In Green
I would like to put 4 Storm Seeker, Explores into that deck
alongside more cantrips but I try to refrain from it to have space for the bounce.

This would lead to the following list:

//Engine - 6
4 Howling Mine
2 Jace Beleren

//Creature Control - 6
2 Moment's Peace
4 Propaganda

//Mana Denial - 8
4 Overburden
4 Exhaustion

//Hand Control - 12
4 Eye of Nowhere
4 Boomerang
4 Remand

//Kill option(s) - 8
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Storm Seeker

//Manabase - 22
9 Island
4 Tropical Island
1 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea

//Sideboard - 15
4 Flusterstorm
3 Wipe Away
4 Arcane Laboratory
3 Krosan Grip
2 Moment's Peace


Once again, 62 cards, so we would need to find two cards to cut.

Hope you could get use out of the input.

P.S.:
I am suggesting the change to the splash since I don't know a white
killing option that would be useful - sorry.
If you want to keep that white splash, consider Magus of the Tabernacle
since he supports your mana denial stratagem and serves - alongside Mishra's Factory as a secondary win option.


//Engine - 6
4 Howling Mine
2 Jace Beleren

//Creature Control - 6
2 Evacuation
4 Propaganda
4 Magus of the Tabernacle

//Mana Denial - 8
4 Overburden
4 Exhaustion

//Hand Control - 12
4 Eye of Nowhere
4 Boomerang
4 Remand

//Kill option(s) - 4
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke

//Manabase - 22
9 Island
4 Tundra
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea

//Sideboard - 15
4 Spell Pierce
4 Gigadrowse
4 Arcane Laboratory
3 Standstill


Since we are at an early beta stage with this deck, I am throwing those sideboards
together w/o much thought but an eye for budget concerns.

If that wouldn't be the case we should consider
a) Instants only with Cunning Wish in MD
b) Hard Removal and/ or Counters // Bounce.

Also we could change this to a 8 / twelvepost deck to give you more space and include
a Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius as Kill option.
Increase in price? About 15 - 20 bucks (around 22-25 Euros).
Since we don't run land filler but card draw it COULD would but that's..... well
enough brain sluggin - need to return to work.

Just a thought that occured while correcting those typos.

Regards,
Matt

[LurkingMatt]

Just found Curse of Exhaustion which is probably to slow - even for this deck.

But wanted to mention it.