Thalia control?

[thefreakaccident]

creatures//22
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 grim lavamancer
4 countryside crusher
4 jotan grunt
3 stoneforge mystic
4 mother of runes


spells//14
1 batterskull
1 umezawa's jitte
4 lightning bolt
4 swords to plowshares
4 thorn of amythist


lands//24
4 rishadan port
4 wasteland
4 plateau
4 arid mesa
1 wooded foothills
1 windswept heath
3 plains
3 mountain




The list is janky, but it's a simple deck that's been taking down a lot of games for me. Crusher filters for good topdecks, and fuels grunts who can usually survive at least 3 turns on their own, putting on lots of pressure while they're there. The 7 sphere's have been treating me well, but the thorns might eventually come out for additional board control, we will see. What do you guys think of the list? Any suggestions?
There's probably a thread for this b/c there's a thread for just about everything, but I couldn't find one.

[zulander]

This isn't actually control, control tries to punish creature decks while this actually punishes non-creature decks. This is Aggro-Thalia which doesn't seem very aggro and loses to other creature decks because you're playing thalia.

[lochlan]

This isn't actually control, control tries to punish creature decks while this actually punishes non-creature decks. This is Aggro-Thalia which doesn't seem very aggro and loses to other creature decks because you're playing thalia.

"Control" means that you are denying your opponent of their cards/resources in some way. Usually this means controlling the stack through cards like Force of Will and Counterspell, but it can also mean controlling the board with cards like Wrath of God or Swords to Plowshares. Mana denial and prison strategies also are ways to control the game.

This deck, which looks to me like a worse version of Death and Taxes, is definitely a control deck. It attempts to prevent the opponent from resolving non-creature spells through Thalia and Thorn of Amethyst while also denying their mana using Ports and Wastelands. It also has light board control elements with StP and Bolt/Grim Lavamancer, and shrinks Knight/Goyf/Mongoose with Jötun Grunt.

But then it's also running Countryside Crusher, which is an agressive ("aggro") card, not to mention one that runs much better in a Loam Deck. So there's a weird tension here between Aggro and Control, but basically only because this deck is running Crusher for no reason. It's interesting that it filters draws, which does seem beneficial in the mid game. It can feed Grunts, but you could also just be resetting them with Vial/Flickerwisp in a more traditional D&T build. I'm guessing the OP wants to filter cards to see more action, but I feel like in D&T the cards have lasting utility once they resolve and you don't need to find new action as much as you would here.

So, to the OP: I would say you should probably just run Death and Taxes (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6775-Deck-Death-and-Taxes), it seems like it does what you want to be doing but better. Karkas is a pretty expensive card now, but besides that you already have most of the pieces.

[Hanni]

I like the splash for Grim Lavamancer, since it gives you a removal option using a creature, which has great synergy with the taxing effects.

On the flip side, I agree that Crusher seems totally out of place. If you want a draw engine (i.e card advantage), add another SFM.

Jotun Grunt and Grim Lavamancer compete for resources, and Crusher isn't going to help that enough. Jotun Grunt really isn't adding any synergy to the taxing effect strategy at all, and also seems out of place. The size is irrelevant, as you're using an otherwise "fishy" creature base and relying on equipment to outsize other aggro decks in the redzone. 4/4 isn't very big anyway. I realize Crusher was another larger beater for you, but again, I think you're best bet against opposing aggro decks is going to be Mother of Runes and equipment.

What I think would provide more synergy for you, and therefore overall effectiveness, is going to be to further improve the taxing strategy.

Mana Tithe is an interesting option, although I'm not sure that it is worth exploring.

Aven Mindcensor seems like a great addition, considering the formats heavy reliance on fetchlands. The flying body also carries Jitte nicely.

I can't think of any good ones off hand, but possibly replacing the Lightning Bolts with another creature that has built in removal, might be beneficial.

Sphere of Resistance as an additional option to bring in from the sideboard could improve matchups where the mana denial strategy is most effective.

[thefreakaccident]

Yes I realize I misused the word control, I was tired when I made the thread.
Thanks for actual feedback Hanni. As far as crusher is involved, he is clunky, but he helps with that competition of resources you were speaking of with grim and grunt... When the list was D&T (which is how it all started), the crushers were serra avengars with plains>mountains in the base... I could easily cut into grunts/crushers for them again after changing the manabase a lil bit, but i'm not too sure. If I were to do that I would prolly cut both entirely to get avengars and mindcensors back into the deck.
So basically:
-4 crushers
-4 grunt
+3 serra anvengar
+3 aven mindcensor
+1 stoneforge mystic
+1 applicable equipment
-2 mountain
+1 plains
+1 fetch

It doesn't speed up the deck at all, but it commits more to the equipment route. The mindcensors can deny fetches if you get lucky, but in my experience they always get lucky with the fetchable land on top 4.

[Hanni]

I don't see why you need Avengers. Without Vial, they aren't coming down till turn 4. They are rather meh without Jitte, and provide little utility outside of blocking 2/x or smaller creatures.

Mindcensor, on the other hand, further compliments your mana denial strategy while also limiting other library searching abilities. That card is win-win in this deck.

[thefreakaccident]

You're right about the avengars, they were remnants from the days of aether vial... Dunno what the numbers are gunna look like b/c I definitely don't want that many clunky 3 drops, will need to trim crushers/find other threats.