Selling Cards on MCM and Ebay

[xfxf]

When you guys are selling/trading cards online how do you protect against buyer scams? I mean things like buyer claiming empty envelope or claiming cards are in terrible condition and replacing the cards you sent them with their own shitty copies. Do you have any options other than checking the feedback of the buyer and trusting it?

[Julian23]

I won't ever sell on Ebay as Paypal has the worst seller-protection in the entire universe.

Regarding MCM, there's no problem. I've sold to close to 400 buyers by now and I never had a problem with unjustified claims. Even if they do happen, the worst thing that happens is you getting a bad feedback. If they are convinced you sent an empty envelope, go ahead, let them get the case to their lawyer, haha.

tl;dr: scams are very rare and have never been an a real issue for me. oh, and don't use ebay.

[sdematt]

Whenever I do anything on Ebay or MOTL, I take pictures/video of me putting the cards in the envelope, and then of me at the post office dropping that same envelope off.

-Matt

[xfxf]

Wow, you have to have a continuous video showing you putting the cards in the envelop and giving that same envelope without any alterations to the post office to be able to maintain the chain of custody :)

[sdematt]

I usually film me putting it into the envelope, and then me at the post office. I don't usually have 15 minute videos of continuous transport, but you can see it's the same envelope, and it's better than nothing. Or, better yet, put the cards in the envelope at the post office so the length of video you need to take is much less :P

In all honesty, what really needs to happen is Paypal needs to go after the people who fraudulently file reports as well.

-Matt

[Star|Scream]

I usually film me putting it into the envelope, and then me at the post office. I don't usually have 15 minute videos of continuous transport, but you can see it's the same envelope, and it's better than nothing. Or, better yet, put the cards in the envelope at the post office so the length of video you need to take is much less :P

In all honesty, what really needs to happen is Paypal needs to go after the people who fraudulently file reports as well.

-Matt

I get what you're trying to accomplish, but honestly what's to stop you from opening the envelope up and taking the cards between footage or even just using 2 identical envelopes? IMHO you are just wasting your time for something that can easily be disputed.

[sdematt]

Sure, the seller could say anything, but at least I've got something rather than "my word."

Sure you could concoct an elaborate envelope switching scam, but like I said, better than nothing.

Unfortunately, I think even if you had this, Paypal would still side with the liar. In fact, you could hand deliver with a signed receipt and still get mucked, I'm sure. It feels like you have to prove your innocence as opposed to your guilt as a seller, which is obviously the worst. If the deal were big enough and I had the evidence of me putting it into the envelope, I'd say prove that it's not the same. But again, who has the time/money to dispute this garbage? --> The reason why Paypal is a monopoly.

-Matt

[JDK]

I pretty much only use MCM and can confirm what Julian said. A negative feedback or "+1 on the lost shipment list" is the only thing you can get and you can sort things out with the MCM support, I someone is abusing the feedback system.

[Anarky87]

After this list transaction from Hell, I'm about done with eBay. After I listed the card as played, I had a buyer receive it, then file a case with eBay that he was supposed to get a Near Mint one. I simply pointed to the auction details and said no more. Ebay sent me an e-mail saying they were going to look into it and get back with me in 72 hours. After 15 minutes they sent another e-mail saying they sided with the buyer and were giving him a refund. Ya know...after he lied...so...

Moral of the story. Do not use eBay for ANYTHING seller wise. In any dispute, they'll always side with the buyer and make you refund their money and then who knows if they'll send you the right stuff back...even if they do send the wrong stuff, you, as the seller, are probably at fault anyway.

Edit: Also, what is MCM, if I may ask?

[cdr]

When you guys are selling/trading cards online how do you protect against buyer scams? I mean things like buyer claiming empty envelope or claiming cards are in terrible condition and replacing the cards you sent them with their own shitty copies. Do you have any options other than checking the feedback of the buyer and trusting it?

Your mileage may vary being from France, but I've shipped thousands of eBay packages and never once been scammed in the way you describe here.

OK, I did have a couple instances of buyers from Italy and Brazil claiming cards never arrived back in my naive days, but I fixed that by: A) not shipping to Italy/Brazil B) shipping only with fully trackable methods.

I've never had anyone domestically try to scam me. IMO it's a vanishingly uncommon thing and not something to worry about other than taking basic precautions.

[Linqed]

Edit: Also, what is MCM, if I may ask?

Magiccardmarket.eu, a site to buy/sell cards in europe. I love it and always use it to buy things. Never had any problems so far.

[xfxf]

cdr, Thank god I'm not from France. I'm just here for work and that's going to change in a couple of months. Still, considering the comments MCM seems to be the safest way as a seller and the 5% commission is reasonable for that.

[sephorusFR]

I have 1500+ sells and 700+ buys on MKM and in three eyars I had like 3 dispute that were settled in a gentlemen way. So go MKM ;)

[Julian23]

I have 1500+ sells and 700+ buys on MKM and in three eyars I had like 3 dispute that were settled in a gentlemen way.

http://www.miwiki.net/images/thumb/Insult.jpg/300px-Insult.jpg ?

[Koby]

http://www.miwiki.net/images/thumb/Insult.jpg/300px-Insult.jpg ?

More like this:
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/30500/30512/burralexduel_30512_sm.gif

Technologic.

[John Cox]

I do eBay a lot, the fees are what will kill you, I've had 2 situation where someone tried to exploit my feedback, and did wind up with negative feed back both times (the only time I've had negative feedback) but without monetary damage. If you want to this on eBay I suggest you have a return policy with a hefty restocking fee. That usually scares off most thieves, as the cost of mail+DC+restock makes someone else a better target. You can sell to more people on eBay (Europe +North America+ Asia) But MKM has fewer fees I believe.

[Malchar]

I had sold stuff on Ebay many years ago before they became so anti-seller. I wouldn't try doing it anymore though.

[Plague Sliver]

Sure, the seller could say anything, but at least I've got something rather than "my word."

Sure you could concoct an elaborate envelope switching scam, but like I said, better than nothing.

Unfortunately, I think even if you had this, Paypal would still side with the liar. In fact, you could hand deliver with a signed receipt and still get mucked, I'm sure. It feels like you have to prove your innocence as opposed to your guilt as a seller, which is obviously the worst. If the deal were big enough and I had the evidence of me putting it into the envelope, I'd say prove that it's not the same. But again, who has the time/money to dispute this garbage? --> The reason why Paypal is a monopoly.

-Matt

Here's an interesting Paypal story:
http://elliotjaystocks.com/blog/good-riddance-paypal/

[xfxf]

So what's stopping anybody from basically looting good deals for free by scamming people up and down?

[CorpT]

So what's stopping anybody from basically looting good deals for free by scamming people up and down?

Morals?

[xfxf]

Some concepts like "morals" aren't as universel as one might think.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Vb7lLrpBJBs/UFTxU16oBhI/AAAAAAAAAD4/CFB_KT0UUQQ/food.jpg

[dschalter]

The problems with ebay aren't nearly as bad as threads like these would have you believe. Basically, there's a serious response bias issue here- people who've been scammed by buyers are more likely to post or make threads about it than people who've sold cards without any problems. Ebay used to make it far to easy for sellers to get away with scams and the changes that were made put things in a reasonable place. That said, the fees are no joke.

[cdr]

eBay+PayPal fees for a transaction are about 12% of the total price. Not nothing, certainly, but at least for me often offset by the fact that I can get more for a card on eBay than anywhere else.

[Esper3k]

I can also certainly say as a buyer, it's very nice to know that eBay/PayPal are on your side.

I've had my share of disputes with sellers where they either didn't send the card or sent a card that was significantly worse shape than advertised.

[Malchar]

I can also certainly say as a buyer, it's very nice to know that eBay/PayPal are on your side.

Even though ebay and paypal generally "take the buyer's side", their policies actually hurt both buyers and sellers equally. Buyers miss out on all the deals which are never offered in the first place because the would-be seller doesn't want to risk getting ripped off and having the companies side with the buyer. Of course, we'll never know how much we're losing out, but we definitely are.

[Esper3k]

Even though ebay and paypal generally "take the buyer's side", their policies actually hurt both buyers and sellers equally. Buyers miss out on all the deals which are never offered in the first place because the would-be seller doesn't want to risk getting ripped off and having the companies side with the buyer. Of course, we'll never know how much we're losing out, but we definitely are.

I think as a company, they decided that siding with the buyer is a better policy because it takes less time / involvement to investigate claims and generally speaking, it looks worse for the company to condone shady sellers than it does shady buyers.

Like it's better for the company's business to have more buyers than to have more sellers.

[Malchar]

I think as a company, they decided that siding with the buyer is a better policy because it takes less time / involvement to investigate claims and generally speaking, it looks worse for the company to condone shady sellers than it does shady buyers.

Like it's better for the company's business to have more buyers than to have more sellers.

Well yea. Most people are buyers. When Ebay and Paypal side with buyers, they're siding with the majority viewpoint among people that have interactions with them. It makes the most sense for them, but it creates a kind of feedback loop.

If the population using Ebay/Paypal were split 40% sellers 60% buyers, it makes sense for Ebay/Paypal to side with the buyers. However, this makes it harder to be a seller. The ratio will tend towards less sellers, say 30% sellers 70% buyers. As there are less and less sellers, there is less and less competition, which means worse deals for all those buyers. The sellers that would naturally step in to offer deals at this point are exactly those who feel that they cannot cope with Ebay/Paypal's buyer-friendly rules, so the market remains imbalanced.

Long-term, it could actually be a bad idea for Ebay/Paypal to side with either buyers or sellers too strongly. Of course, it's very difficult to figure out a fair system. Both Ebay and Paypal had a lot of potential when they first started, but they seem to be going downhill over time due to these short-sighted decisions.

[csy]

I sell a card on ebay, insure the card for the sold amount get a tracking number and ship.

If you're shipping anything worth more than (what you consider to be enraging to lose) then you should take steps to ensure you dont get screwed by some one.

I've never had a problem with paypal/ebay. I have bought things from sellers who didnt send a tracking number and gotten my money back because their item was lost in transit though. Sucks to be them.

[xfxf]

I'm thinking as a buyer and what's really stopping me from buying something I want anyway but then trying my chance filing a dispute. If I can get my money back in addition to the card for a single time I'd try to go big and hit something >$200. If people can get away with it why not? If people can get away with it why would I sell stuff there?

[Esper3k]

I'm thinking as a buyer and what's really stopping me from buying something I want anyway but then trying my chance filing a dispute. If I can get my money back in addition to the card for a single time I'd try to go big and hit something >$200. If people can get away with it why not? If people can get away with it why would I sell stuff there?

Probably the same thing that keeps one from participating in other fraudulent criminal enterprises?

I would also assume that for high dollar items, Paypal would investigate deeper into disputes and sellers would take greater care to avoid being screwed by those types of buyers.

[xfxf]

What's stopping me from being fradulent won't necessarily stop anyone else from being that way. If that's based on personal behaviour than it means the controls are simply not in place and the outcome will be just random. That's not good enough. Also about the monetary value of disputes... Before posting here I Googled a bit and came across threads where some chicks sold expansive bags over Ebay (worth 3k-4k) and got screwed... Compared to our $100 dual lands there's some serious sh*t going on out there :)

[Julian23]

Easy answer: it's not worth it to try to screw somebody. I don't feel like being sued and having to get a lawyer myself. There's so much work and time involved in screwing someone over, it's just not worth if.

If that's the kind of answer YOU are looking for.

[xfxf]

I'm not looking for an answer, it's just the way people tell their stories it seems just too easy to rip someone as a buyer. I don't have any intentions to rip people off, I started this thread because I am starting to sell some stuff.

[Esper3k]

Right, just like in real life, you always run a risk when you buy something.

While of course people can remember the times they had bad experiences with eBay, the vast majority of eBay transactions actually go through without problems which is why it's still the world's most reputable online auction website for regular users.

[Viridia]

So,

i used paypal to pay for some stuff @ an american retailer, big order 300ish dollar.
However there were some sealed stuff among that and they cancelled the order because of WOTC's policy, no problem right?
Except that paypal has been holding my 300+ dollar for a week now and i haven't gotten a response to my emails yet :(
Anyone have any clue what to do about that?

[Esper3k]

What's WoTC's policy on sealed stuff that made them cancel the order?

[Viridia]

Can't ship sealed stuff to other continents aparently

[Julian23]

Paypal is a bitch. You have to call them. From 3 requests I had, I never got an answer to any of them. At least 2 I was able to resolve by calling them on the phone.

[sauce]

what is MCM? :eyebrow:

[Koby]

what is MCM? :eyebrow:

Magic Card Market dot EU

[JDK]

what is MCM? :eyebrow:

It's fucking hard to read/search a thread with two pages, right?

[sauce]

It's fucking hard to read/search a thread with two pages, right?

thank you for your help! :u: :smile:

[xfxf]

something something

sshhh! :mad:

[joemauer]

It's fucking hard to read/search a thread with two pages, right?

You made this thread three pages......

[xfxf]

It's all about the disinformation man. Slowly makes his way to the Mish Mash..

[JDK]

You made this thread three pages......
Look at his post and check the amount of pages prior to the "current" one (the one where his post is listed on). Take this number and add one (for the current page). Now add 2, multiply it with 1 and substract 2.

There you go, buddy. Glad I could help you overcome your barriers. :wink:

[Dran Dragore]

sorry guys just a question. Can I buy from MCM if I don't have an european address?

[xfxf]

Nope. You can't buy or sell to/from countries outside their system because the third party payment system they are using won't work with the postal service of those countries.