Progenitus and Brain Freeze

[Lord Seth]

Got a question about this. If I cast Brain Freeze and the first or second card it hits is Progenitus, does the Progenitus get shuffled back into the library and THEN the remaining card(s) are put into the graveyard, or do we put the remaining cards in and THEN shuffle him back in?

Or to put more specifically, suppose Progenitus is on top and I cast Brain Freeze. Do they shuffle Progenitus back into their library and then (after shuffling) put two more cards into their graveyard, or do they, after revealing Progenitus, put the next two cards into the graveyard and then shuffle?

[Koby]

Progenitus is a replacement effect - it happens without using the stack and immediately.
Emrakul is a triggered effect - it happens as soon as its owner is given priority to put trigger on the stack.

Therefore, if Progenitus is milled, instead shuffle it back into its owner's library. This will happen before any other effects on the stack resolve.

[cdr]

Progeniuts has a replacement effect - instead of being put into the graveyard, it's shuffled in. Brainfreeze mills 3 cards. The top three cards are removed from the deck, two cards go to the graveyard, Progenitus gets shuffled in at the same time - that's the event after it's been modified by Progenitus.

[Lord Seth]

Progenitus is a replacement effect - it happens without using the stack and immediately.
Emrakul is a triggered effect - it happens as soon as its owner is given priority to put trigger on the stack.

Therefore, if Progenitus is milled, instead shuffle it back into its owner's library. This will happen before any other effects on the stack resolve.


Progeniuts has a replacement effect - instead of being put into the graveyard, it's shuffled in. Brainfreeze mills 3 cards. The top three cards are removed from the deck, two cards go to the graveyard, Progenitus gets shuffled in at the same time - that's the event after it's been modified by Progenitus.If I'm understanding these right, I just got two different answers here. So which is the correct one?

[Koby]

If I'm understanding these right, I just got two different answers here. So which is the correct one?

They are identical.

Brainfreeze mills 3 cards - Progenitus is revealed and gets shuffled into the library before the cards enter the graveyard due to its replacement effect. The rest of the effect continues putting the two remaining cards into the graveyard.

[cdr]

I don't think it really makes a difference, but technically the shuffle happens at the same time and not before or after.

The event goes from "move these three cards from the top of the library to the graveyard" to "move this card from the top of the library to the shuffled deck and move the next two cards to the graveyard".

Regardless, the event is taking the top three cards so any cards not going back in the deck are excluded from the shuffle.

[Lord Seth]

They are identical.Your statement appeared to indicate that you shuffle Progenitus and then put the top two cards in, whereas the other said that you put the other top two cards in, then shuffle it in.

Maybe I should try to clarify. I'm trying to figure out how it works from a physical standpoint; that is, what my opponent should actually do.

In other words, let's get back to the original example. Progenitus is the top card, and I cast Brain Freeze. My opponent reveals the top card, and it's Progenitus. Do they then reveal the next two cards, and then shuffle Progenitus and put those two cards into the graveyard? Or do they, after revealing Progenitus, shuffle it into the library, then reveal the (different) top two cards and put them into their graveyard?

[Koby]

Mill X is a single event. Any time multiple cards are put into the graveyard simultaneously, you have an opportunity to select the order they arrive there.

In this case, Progenitus is revealed as part of the mill event. It's final destination will end up shuffled in the deck. The other remaining cards are also revealed and put into the graveyard. You would reveal three cards, put Progenitus into the deck & shuffle, then put the other two cards into the graveyard.

[Lord Seth]

Mill X is a single event. Any time multiple cards are put into the graveyard simultaneously, you have an opportunity to select the order they arrive there.

In this case, Progenitus is revealed as part of the mill event. It's final destination will end up shuffled in the deck. The other remaining cards are also revealed and put into the graveyard. You would reveal three cards, put Progenitus into the deck & shuffle, then put the other two cards into the graveyard.All right, that's all I needed to know. Thanks!

[Technics]

I think what your asking is can the same progen be milled twice by the same mill. The answer is no. You reveal 3 cards. Then at the same time put all three in the grave. However because of the replacement effect progen goes into the library as the 2 other cards go to the grave. Shuffle it in then do the next copy of brain freeze.