Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

[Xod]

I did it :wink:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13150&d=277000&f=LE

[potatodavid]

I did it :wink:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13150&d=277000&f=LE

How well did boil workout for you?

[Xod]

Never draw it and only lost to Miracles where I couldn't draw it. The Thursday before I won against the same player with Miracles. Was a bit unlucky against him but he plays really good. Was also in the Top 8. Lost against the punishing thing deck in top8.

[TLK]

Looking for some sideboard advice based on my meta. Trying to customize for my weekly events.

This is what is prevalent in my area:

D&T
Lands/Aggro Loam
Omni-Tell
UR Delver
Shardless BUG
Infect
EsperBlade

Current sideboard is an adaptation of Hoogland's updated sideboard:

4 Trinisphere
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pyroclasm
1 Null Rod
1 Boil
2 Sudden Shock
2 Ingot Chewer

Any recommendations?

[James718]

Looking for some sideboard advice based on my meta. Trying to customize for my weekly events.

This is what is prevalent in my area:

D&T
Lands/Aggro Loam
Omni-Tell
UR Delver
Shardless BUG
Infect
EsperBlade

Current sideboard is an adaptation of Hoogland's updated sideboard:

4 Trinisphere
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pyroclasm
1 Null Rod
1 Boil
2 Sudden Shock
2 Ingot Chewer

Any recommendations?

I would cut a null rod and add an Emrakul

[TLK]

So this week I 0-2 dropped. Faced back to back Omni-Tell. Is there anything else I can do for this matchup? Seems like they do what we do but better, as they have more avenues to victory backed up by permission and card selection. Perhaps I'm keeping subpar hands or not playing optimally, but this seems miserable.

[James718]

So this week I 0-2 dropped. Faced back to back Omni-Tell. Is there anything else I can do for this matchup? Seems like they do what we do but better, as they have more avenues to victory backed up by permission and card selection. Perhaps I'm keeping subpar hands or not playing optimally, but this seems miserable.

Have trini spheres and emrakuls in hand

[potatodavid]

So this week I 0-2 dropped. Faced back to back Omni-Tell. Is there anything else I can do for this matchup? Seems like they do what we do but better, as they have more avenues to victory backed up by permission and card selection. Perhaps I'm keeping subpar hands or not playing optimally, but this seems miserable.

I was running 2x Ashen Riders when we had 3 OmniTell Players. In that Match Up. -4 bloodmoon -4 seething song + 2 Magus of the moon +2 ashen rider +4 trinisphere

Bloodmoons cut: I don't like them in this MU. They need to curve out at 3, which is not difficult at all
Seething Song Cut: Don't want to draw many of these, they're not a threat
Magus add: It has feet, sometimes they brick and damage is damage, push what you can
Ashen Rider Add: Self Explanatory
Trinisphere: Self Explanatory

[TLK]

Have trini spheres and emrakuls in hand

I actually died with Emrakul in hand. Having Emrakul does nothing against an opposing Omniscience. They'll just cast Emrakul, take an extra turn and annihilate my board. Sandbagging Trinisphere seemed like a good idea on paper, but the times I drew it my opponent had plenty of extra mana to cast Emrakul around it and still kill me.


I was running 2x Ashen Riders when we had 3 OmniTell Players. In that Match Up. -4 bloodmoon -4 seething song + 2 Magus of the moon +2 ashen rider +4 trinisphere

Bloodmoons cut: I don't like them in this MU. They need to curve out at 3, which is not difficult at all
Seething Song Cut: Don't want to draw many of these, they're not a threat
Magus add: It has feet, sometimes they brick and damage is damage, push what you can
Ashen Rider Add: Self Explanatory
Trinisphere: Self Explanatory

I was actually thinking about Ashen Rider during the matches last night. I think I'm going to try this out.

[hdeck12]

So this week I 0-2 dropped. Faced back to back Omni-Tell. Is there anything else I can do for this matchup? Seems like they do what we do but better, as they have more avenues to victory backed up by permission and card selection. Perhaps I'm keeping subpar hands or not playing optimally, but this seems miserable.

Mull till you see trinishpere.

Turrible matchup. A couple ways I've dealt with it when it gets heavy in the local meta:
Hold trinishpere until they cast show and tell or hit 4 lands. 5th land means dream halls hard cast and you're dead. Run out the rest of your hand asap.
Bring in pyromancy make your land drops and draw fatties, drop it on their show and tell and kill them in response to trying to cast their next spell.
Chaos warp, chaos warp, chaos warp.
Ashen rider, woodfall primus, terrastodon

Potato is right about SB. I like to leave in 1 song (especially on the pyromancy plan). The other three and the moons should come out. You don't want to slow yourself down by turning off your sol lands.

[TLK]

Mull till you see trinishpere.

Turrible matchup. A couple ways I've dealt with it when it gets heavy in the local meta:
Hold trinishpere until they cast show and tell or hit 4 lands. 5th land means dream halls hard cast and you're dead. Run out the rest of your hand asap.
Bring in pyromancy make your land drops and draw fatties, drop it on their show and tell and kill them in response to trying to cast their next spell.
Chaos warp, chaos warp, chaos warp.
Ashen rider, woodfall primus, terrastodon

Potato is right about SB. I like to leave in 1 song (especially on the pyromancy plan). The other three and the moons should come out. You don't want to slow yourself down by turning off your sol lands.

Does Chaos Warp actually do anything if they hold maintain priority after S&T?

[hdeck12]

Does Chaos Warp actually do anything if they hold maintain priority after S&T?

It can do more, or less, depending on their win condition and build.

But even if their win condition is cast emrakul and they have it in hand...Sure. You warp the omni, they get to annihilate your board and 15 damage in, you untap, go off with your stocked hand and kill them. (Chances aren't great, but it always does "something".)

They're going to have to dig up their win condition more often than not. It generally stops the endless cantrip loop and forces another enabler to be found.

[TLK]

So I tailor my sideboard for Omni-Tell and both players don't show up. Lol. Anyway, went 2-1 last night.

Round 1 vs UB Reanimator.

Lose game 1 when I mull to 5 and get locked out by turn 2 Iona naming red. Win game 2 on the back of double Chalice on 1. Win game 3 thanks to Inferno Titan. He has disruption (Needle on Sneak Attack) but can't do anything about Seething Song into Titan.

2-1, 1-0

Round 2 vs Pox.

Miserable. I literally did nothing both games. I think I could've won game 2 had I drawn a sol land but I bricked a couple turns in a row and got locked out.

0-2, 1-1

Round 3 vs Esper Reanimator.

Won game 1 thanks to Griselbrand. He didn't do much other than play cantrips, and he's usually on the same colors but a stoneblade variant, so I sideboarded accordingly. Game 2 I realize he's on a different deck and lose to reanimated Griselbrand and Emrakul. Game 3 I land a turn 1 Chalice on 1, turn 2 Sneak Attack, and win on turn 3 thanks for Griselbrand + Worldspine Wurm.

2-1, 2-1

I think I'm going to add a few Faerie Macabre into the sideboard if graveyard shenanigans are this popular. I believe there was a dredge player last night as well. Maybe swap out the Pyromancy for 2 copies.

[lost_ronin_soul]

Against Omnitell list, I found its generally better to hold Trinisphere in hand and get your accelerant in the deck. Sure the can try to force of will but it eats their blue cards slowing their own combo down. Especially if you are worried about dream halls win con. Never cast your only Trinisphere. I learned that plenty of times. You want to be the aggressive combo deck. If their hand can't stop you win. Trinisphere is an insurance plan only if they try to get cute, you just untap and kill them. If they cast a show and tell they open up for your own combo. I haven't been playing any graveyard hate and been seeing graveyard decks fairly frequently for being such a small portion of the meta. Seems I face a grislebrand brand graveyard deck last 4 events I showed up to. I am about even with my reanimator matchup so I haven't opted to up my graveyard hate up yet. At the moment this is my list.

Deck: sneak attack godo editon v2.0 (60)

// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain
3 Sandstone Needle

// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Godo, Bandit Warlord
3 Worldspine Wurm
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
3 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song
4 Sneak Attack
3 Batterskull
4 Through the Breach

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Rolling Earthquake. **just picked up n untested*
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 4 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Inferno Titan
SB: 3 Blood Moon

[TLK]

Against Omnitell list, I found its generally better to hold Trinisphere in hand and get your accelerant in the deck. Sure the can try to force of will but it eats their blue cards slowing their own combo down. Especially if you are worried about dream halls win con. Never cast your only Trinisphere. I learned that plenty of times. You want to be the aggressive combo deck. If their hand can't stop you win. Trinisphere is an insurance plan only if they try to get cute, you just untap and kill them. If they cast a show and tell they open up for your own combo. I haven't been playing any graveyard hate and been seeing graveyard decks fairly frequently for being such a small portion of the meta. Seems I face a grislebrand brand graveyard deck last 4 events I showed up to. I am about even with my reanimator matchup so I haven't opted to up my graveyard hate up yet. At the moment this is my list.

Deck: sneak attack godo editon v2.0 (60)

// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain
3 Sandstone Needle

// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Godo, Bandit Warlord
3 Worldspine Wurm
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
3 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song
4 Sneak Attack
3 Batterskull
4 Through the Breach

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Rolling Earthquake. **just picked up n untested*
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 4 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Inferno Titan
SB: 3 Blood Moon

You don't miss Griselbrand?

[lost_ronin_soul]

Grislebrand was game ending with sneak attack but not guaranteed with through the breach. Worldspine will win more of the games that grislebrand couldn't get there. Godo less powerful the grislebrand but actually competes with inferno titan. Batterskull has been thoroughly good. I'm running only 7 insane sneak targets (wurms and mom's spaghetti )with 4 decent sneak targets (Godo). This is so I see less hands with multiple uncastable creatures. Generally, only one big dumb sneak creature should win you the game.The longer the game goes on the more likely you with see redundant big dumb creatures that are extra. Each extra creature means more frequent dead draws. I just don't like how grislebrand doesn't always guarantee you will get there , especially as the life total lowers from enemy attacks and tomb activations. Batterskull actually helps the life loss, BTW. The problem is through the breach grislebrand nets between 7-21 cards, and the lower draws needs to find you the ability to combo off next turn. Sometimes stumbling that one turn will allow you opponent to combo,tempo, or draw what they need to bring them back in. Sneak attack is different because it makes comboing to kill WAAAY easier. It's all through the breach' s fault Grislebrand recieved no love from my list.lol

[Zooligan]

Couple questions:

1. What happened to Blightsteel Colossus?
2. Can Not of this World be of use on the fatties to protect from bounce effects? Can it stop our own SA/TtB sac effects?

[James718]

Couple questions:

1. What happened to Blightsteel Colossus?
2. Can Not of this World be of use on the fatties to protect from bounce effects? Can it stop our own SA/TtB sac effects?

1. We don't have enough infect creatures in the deck. You could land 9 infect and then what? He doesn't fit the plan.
2. We are a proactive deck, not reactive

[Zooligan]

1. We don't have enough infect creatures in the deck. You could land 9 infect and then what? He doesn't fit the plan.
2. We are a proactive deck, not reactive

Right on. Both make sense after you think about them for a bit.

So is the Godo/Batterskull build the current accepted optimal configuration?

[James718]

Right on. Both make sense after you think about them for a bit.

So is the Godo/Batterskull build the current accepted optimal configuration?

The batterskull is great because it is cast able and recastable. It also gets around humility.

[lost_ronin_soul]

Sunday, I played 6 round event and did the worst I have ever done in a while with deck deck 3-3. Lost to UR Delver, Goblins (good match up) and eldrazi. Best Rug Delver, lands, and nicfit. I did draw poorly alot and needed to Mulligan mana screwed hands frequently. I also made note of a few mistakes that weren't to imediately obvious to me at the time (like casting a sneak attack under a blood moon when facing eldrazi versus picking up a dead batterskull at 4 lands at 12 life facing 6 power (4/4 endless one and mimic). By playing sneak attack I was planning to top deck one of 16 sneak targets including spirit guide creatures to either let me win outright or clump block and 3 mana to pick up batterskull buying me a turn to find the mana. I should not have casted sneak attack . instead i should have picked up batterskull because I had 18 mana sources to draw into left in the deck I calculated after the match. I drew a land after I took 6 and face palmed. In regards to Batterskull , it has been mostly good. It allowed me to beat a game one turn one Iona naming red once at GP columbus (I only had sandstone needle for my turn one play) and I was able to beat him with turn two Batterskull , chalice on 2 , then found double Batterskull).

Godo has worked nicely but it competes with inferno titan. Godo is better against burn and decks that run white based removal like swords and terminus. Titan is better against the small creatures. Titan can also potentially sneak in for a kill by itself. Godo is almost always good to sneak in. Batterskull can win a game by itself and potentially hide your deck in rare circumstances (I've done it once)
So far I like Godo, even though inferno titan would have been fine in the matches I played against. I haven't figured out which is better against Delver decks. Inferno titan can help stabilize against threats while Godo can make it really hard to die if you untap with it.

I can't say my list is the optimal list. But I configured it to the point where I'm very comfortable with it. I did make day 2 at GP Columbus and I played alot of bad matchups day one so it must say something about the list.

I think mono red list can benefit by running at least 2 Godo and one(I recommend two) Batterskull. I go very heavy on Godo since I'm still evaluating it. It helps against miracles but won't guarantee the match.

[Zooligan]

I think mono red list can benefit by running at least 2 Godo and one(I recommend two) Batterskull. I go very heavy on Godo since I'm still evaluating it. It helps against miracles but won't guarantee the match.

What are your thoughts on sideboard contents and strategies after your 3-3 day? Still think Blood Moon side and Trinisphere main? Still down on G-pap?

[lost_ronin_soul]

What are your thoughts on sideboard contents and strategies after your 3-3 day? Still think Blood Moon side and Trinisphere main? Still down on G-pap?
Saturday just didn't come together for me. Not sure if it was because I been toying with modern lately and I wasn't in the zone, bad luck, or other factors. They had a modern event at that shop later that day and I was prepared more for that event.

I still prefer my main deck lock package to be 4 chalice and 3 Trinisphere. Main board moon isn't my play style. I also am not a fan that it hurts our mana base as well which can make comboing off harder as you try to top deck mana. It's worse if your opponent resolved some form of pressure while you try to assemble 4-5 mana sources to unleash death. Also it means you are more likely your opponent can draw counter magic to delay combing even further. At least Trinisphere game one only hurts top decking lotus petal. This allows me to threateb an early lock piece and follow up with a combo piece the turn after even if the lock piece resolves or not. Moon can sometimes take you off the mana you need. It's my preference, and wether or not it's actually correct or not is a meta call. Moon in the main could been a better meta call this event.

Rolling earthquake needs more testing before I can say it's good or not. I saw it only in a single game against UR delver. I drew it late, killing a Delver and monastery swift spear which means it was better then sudden demise. The two damage was sort of relevant as it stopped me from being able to cast a through the breach when I top decked an ancient tomb when I was at two life, which made it worse then pyroclasm. But the opponent had counter magic up so I would lose regardless. So I think I need to set up a gauntlet with friends and do post board testing. I like some number of board wipes but I am not sure what is the correct number/split.
I do like having the 7 moon's in the sideboard. It makes lands near unloseable (they are extremely unlikely to beat double blood moon, and if they board out punishing fire Magus can get the job done too. )Can chalice on 2 is good against them 2. I only lost a game to lands because I didn't know what he was on in game 2. I only saw Mox diamond, bayou, and basic forest which made me put him on new horizons (an Abzan list)
I still only have one graveyard hate card in the sideboard (the 4th Trinisphere) and I am about even in matches even against reanimator (a bad matchup in my book).
Inferno titan is still really really good so some copies need to be in the 75 I just don't know how many copies and wether main or sideboard.
I also never played against eldrazi up until now. So while I new about the deck this was my first time playing against it.
I also forgot to write out my sideboard game plans I had in my phone.
My current sideboard stragies are :

Bug/eldrazi (Stronger lock pieces)
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Blood Moon
-4 Chalice of the Void
-3Trinisphere

Burn (Trinisphere is more important then 3rd skull)
1 Trinisphere (stops them winning early)
-1 Batterskull

Delver.( Try to grind it out until a 6 drop sticks.)
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Inferno Titan
2 Pyroclasm
2 Rolling Earthquake (can wipe 1/1 with magus in play)
3 Blood Moon
-3 Trinisphere
-4 Through the Breach(wasteland/moons/soft counters)
-3 Worldspine Wurm
-4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Elves (board wipe over life gain)
3 Inferno Titan
2 Rolling Earthquake
2 Pyroclasm
-3 Batterskull
-4 Godo, Bandit Warlord

Miracle (try to win quick, else grind out a long game)
3 Inferno Titan
2 Rolling Earthquake
1 Trinisphere
-3 Lotus Petal
-3 Worldspine wurn

[James718]

Soo whose trying new Chandra?

[Zooligan]

Soo whose trying new Chandra?

Problem is, how many would you play and what would you take out for them?

[James718]

Problem is, how many would you play and what would you take out for them?

I think I could try adding one to the main, I don't know if she's better than the 6 mana Chandra though. Different situations I guess . The new Chandra gives pseudo card advantage. But then again we can't cast any of our fatties, just enablers. It is relevant though. indont know, the more I think about it the less I'm feeling her.

However I will test her. I'll probably cut a batterskull for her.

[Zooligan]

Because of the card advantage she may be suitable in longer, grindier games which seems to indicate she would be SB material. I''m not certain in a G1 I'd rather draw her than Batterskull for a T2-T3 play.

[James718]

But she does give us outs to humility and ensnaring bridges

[potatodavid]

But she does give us outs to humility and ensnaring bridges

So does Pyromancy and it kills faster

[potatodavid]

New Chandra has zero place in this deck.

+1 says cast. Well I don't want to cast my chalices for 0....
+1 RR. Okay...2 sneak attack activations(what? c'mon)
-3 Deal 4 damage... When is this relevant?
-7 (i've already won at this point)

[James718]

I agree.

[Zooligan]

New Chandra has zero place in this deck.

+1 says cast. Well I don't want to cast my chalices for 0....


It doesn't say you have to cast it this turn... though I suspect you do since it does say if you do not cast it it will deal 2 to each opponent. That would be uber-nuts if you could dealing 2 to opponents the turn you +1 and then hold it in exile for a turn and cast anytime after. Judge?

Still, it seems too slow (comparatively, for this deck) in any but the grindiest games. This deck wants to slam must-answer threats quickly. this Chandra does not seem like a must-answer threat.

As a thought experiment, what would a card have to do to find a place in this deck?

[James718]

As a thought experiment, what would a card have to do to find a place in this deck?

Go over the top.
Prevent opponent for playing
Give us card selection/advantage

[potatodavid]

It would have to be something that

Gives us straight card advantage.

Helps eliminate Variance.

Impacts the board Immediately.



It would have to be something to fit our current flex cards: Godo/Batterskull, Wurmcoil Engine, Chandra Pyromaster, Sin Prodder, Coercive Portal etc. Right now there's a revolving door of flex cards and it has to be above and better than any of these. Godo + Batterskull is probably the best for the time being.

[lost_ronin_soul]

https://i.redd.it/rbtr0envxsjx.png
She is hot fire. I suspect 3 will be the correct number. But I will be trying out 4 initially. She is making me empty out my godo-skull package. I don't have enough main deck slots to fit her with Godo nicely. It's remind me of Jace, The Mind Sculptor.1+ probable Card Advantage vrs Jace's 0 for actual CA. I like her because she can defend herself with her -3 like Jace's -1 ability. Chandra ultimate fires off quickly too but will only matter in games she is pairs with blood moon. Which BTW I like her with blood moon in the main because she address an issue this deck has in the late game. Permanent red mana! She basically costs 2 mana to cast since she can make red mana. For example if you cast her on a turn two seething song you can +1 her and get enough mana to land a moon . the next turn you have enough mana to probably combo off. She is a great improvement for the dec, giving us extra mana, removal, card advantage, and a win con if we durdle at the very affordable cost of 2RR.

[James718]

She is hot fire. I suspect 3 will be the correct number. But I will be trying out 4 initially. She is making me empty out my godo-skull package. I don't have enough main deck slots to fit her with Godo nicely. It's remind me of Jace, The Mind Sculptor.1+ probable Card Advantage vrs Jace's 0 for actual CA. I like her because she can defend herself with her -3 like Jace's -1 ability. Chandra ultimate fires off quickly too but will only matter in games she is pairs with blood moon. Which BTW I like her with blood moon in the main because she address an issue this deck has in the late game. Permanent red mana! She basically costs 2 mana to cast since she can make red mana. For example if you cast her on a turn two seething song you can +1 her and get enough mana to land a moon . the next turn you have enough mana to probably combo off. She is a great improvement for the dec, giving us extra mana, removal, card advantage, and a win con if we durdle at the very affordable cost of 2RR.

lol we just went through this, read the last page

this deck almost positively does not want this card

[Zooligan]

She seems like much more of a Modern card than a card for this deck.

[lost_ronin_soul]

I still am excited to test it out. I think it will help against miracles. They don't have many answers to her (terminus and swords to plowshares don't help). It's possible it might help against Delver. It helps beat opponents hands that are threat light, if you can resolve her. I see you guys might not be interested to play it but I'll be the first in line to try it out. :). I think it will be good to have another line to attack with.. The matchups I lose to often are to wasteland decks , and decks that setup counter magic quicker then I can play a threat. I think this card will help significantly with those matchups. Especially since it can remove most single threats, and is not a card our opponents can ignore indefinitely.

Edit: I am more interested in her mana ability and -3 ability over her first and last ability. I picture resolving this turn two, killing a dude. Blue player tapping lands to try to get another threat, then using her mana ability to beat soft permission.

[Captain Hammer]

I agree lost ronin soul. Its a great all around card that serves to let the deck stay in the match even if we fail to combo out and thus warrants testing.

However, the new card Im really excited about is Madcap Experiment. It might require the deck to go back to playing Blightsteel Collosus and Wurmcoil Engine or possibly 2 Platinum Emporium instead of Godo/Batterskull/Chalice but its one hell of an effect, stronger than Sneak Attack in some situations and cheaper as well.

I think retweaking the deck to accommodate it will bear fruit in terms of improving resiliency and consistency.

Just as a starting point...


// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Worldspine Wurm

// Spells
1 Blood Moon
1 Chaos Warp
4 Gamble
4 Seething Song
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Sneak Attack
3 Through the Breach

Gamble lets you tutor up the missing combo piece, Chaos Warp or a Blood Moon when needed.

[hdeck12]

New Chandra.....I will be playing a hard zero

[Captain Hammer]

If playing Madcap, what do you think is the better way to beef up the combo, Gamble or Faithless Looting? Gamble into Chaos Warp gives the deck an out against problem permanents but I am starting to think that Looting is overall stronger as in the list below...


// Lands
9 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Sandstone Needle

// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Worldspine Wurm

// Spells
4 Faithless Looting
4 Seething Song
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach

//Sideboard
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
2 Batterskull


The sideboard is helpful if the lifeloss from Madcap proves to be too risky against a particular matchup. Siding in Batterskull resolves that issue. Godo supplements Batterskull well. In addition, the sideboard lets you bring in the full eight Moon effects when facing matchups where that card is game breaking.

Thanks to Madcap, this list goes off significantly more consistently than any build of Big Red that came before.

[lost_ronin_soul]

I don't like madcap experiment personally I feel like it wants to be it's own archetype. It's also risky to play in an ancient tomb deck. But if you want to try to configure a list, Quick Silver Amulet, 'Daretti, Scrap Savant', Trash for Treasure, and Goblin Welder may help your list.

[Captain Hammer]

Quick Silver Amulet, 'Daretti, Scrap Savant', Trash for Treasure, and Goblin Welder are great cards but none of them supplement the build I posted above. Not sure what list you are proposing. Those cards suit a welder deck or a Painter Stone deck, not a Big Red deck.

What I posted is very much Big Red, it simply utilities Madcap to greatly beef up the consistency of going off.

[James718]

Quick Silver Amulet, 'Daretti, Scrap Savant', Trash for Treasure, and Goblin Welder are great cards but none of them supplement the build I posted above. Not sure what list you are proposing. Those cards suit a welder deck or a Painter Stone deck, not a Big Red deck.

What I posted is very much Big Red, it simply utilities Madcap to greatly beef up the consistency of going off.

It's too slow. Your also not running chalice. This is a chalice deck. It helps protect us from discard and having our fatties swords'd. Putting in an unhasted blight steel doesnt seem that great.

[Captain Hammer]

The list I posted above is not slow. Anything but. It tends to win many games on turn 1 or 2 or turn 3 at the latest. What Madcap adds to it is consistency and redundancy that will let it take over the midgame if the deck gets disrupted to the point that it can't close the deal in the first couple of turns. This more than makes up for the risk that Madcap poses IMO.

If you opt to play a slower build as opposed to the build I posted below, I like the suggestion made earlier to run Pyrostatic Pillar and Myr Battlesphere. Pillar plays a role similar to Chalice. Both synergize with Madcap very well and they are both hardcastable. Even if Sneak Attacked, Myr swings for 12 damage immediately and leaves behind 4 1/1s.

I settled on a final version of the deck...



// Lands
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Sandstone Needle

// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Combustible Gearhulk
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach

// Sideboard
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Desperate Ritual
2 Worldspine Wurm

// Other Maindeckable Cards
Faithless Looting
Pyrostatic Pillar
Chaos Warp
Blood Moon
Magus of the Moon
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Myr Battlesphere
Sundering Titan



Outdated: Here is an older list I tried before settling on the above list.... The old list was based on the suggestion by Cire to test if Platinum Emporium could be played in lieu of all other artifacts not named Blightsteel.

// Lands
9 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Sandstone Needle

// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Worldspine Wurm
4 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Platinum Emporium

// Spells
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach

// Sideboard
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Blood Moon
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast



While such a list looks promising due to it's speed, it also has a harder time recovering if the initial threat gets StPed/FoWed. The first list had the added resilience of being able to hard cast several of it's game breaking threats even if the initial threat got countered or removed. Alternatively, the list could play Faithless Looting or Chandra, Torch of Defiance in lieu of Desperate Ritual in order to given it a bit more resiliency. This way, it has a better chance of recovering if the first threat gets forced or removed.

I am going to stop posting further updates in this thread since this deck has evolved to a point where it no longer fit's the description Big Red. I made a separate thread in order to avoid derailing this thread with my build... http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31000-Deck-Madcap-Sneak-Attack&p=969124#post969124

[Zooligan]

Some strategy applicable to this deck borrowed from the Sneak-n-Show primer. Haven't seen it in here anywhere so thought I'd bring it in.

Tips and Tricks

Even though you don't have that much room for interesting plays like other decks do, there are still some "tricks" to get around certain hate cards or bait a response that benefits you out of your opponent.

How to beat Karakas
To do this you need :r: and Emrakul, it doesn't work with Griselbrand. If you have :r::r: you can start it in your turn, with only :r: you have to wait until your opponent's end of turn. Then you activate Sneak Attack, putting Emrakul into play and enter your turn. You give your opponent priority in your beginning of combat step. If they bounce Emrakul then, you regain priority, and can activate Sneak Attack again to put Emrakul back into play. If your opponent lets you move to the declare attackers step and bounces Emrakul in response to the Annihilator trigger, they don't lose life, but you can just kill them on the following turn, because their board will be wiped and you get to keep Emrakul in hand.

The easiest way around Karakas is Blood Moon btw. :wink:


How to use Griselbrand
I have seen many players die with Griselbrand on board, because they get greedy or use his ability at the wrong time. This shouldn't happen, if you try to follow these guidelines:

Never activate Griselbrand's ability against RUG Delver.
Only activate Griselbrand's ability against Jund if a Liliana of the Veil is on the stack and you have no way anymore of naturally drawing into a win via Sneak Attack.



Sneaky Griselbrand can block
If you are at a low life total (let's say below 14) or your opponent has a lot of power on the board, sneaking in Griselbrand and hope to draw an Emrakul can be very risky. In this case it's better to activate Sneak Attack after your opponent declared attackers, block his strongest creature, and draw cards on his turn.
You can also use this fact as a bait if you have Sneak Attack in play but no creature. Tap your red source around for a bit, pretending to think about putting Griselbrand into play and attacking, then pass the turn. That might keep your opponent from attacking in fear of a blocking lifelink demon.

[TLK]

I definitely can appreciate those types of pointers. I'm trying to get proficient with this deck and every bit helps. I also wouldn't mind a general strategy guide plus sideboarding tips against the major archetypes if someone has the time.

[James718]

I definitely can appreciate those types of pointers. I'm trying to get proficient with this deck and every bit helps. I also wouldn't mind a general strategy guide plus sideboarding tips against the major archetypes if someone has the time.

Those are all already in the thread.

The best piece of advice is to learn how to mulligan. It is extremely relevant because this deck is bad at mulliganing.
You need to keep a hand with action. Can you prevent your opponent from playing? Or can you go off fast? Knowing your meta and identifying what your up against helps tremendously. One of the biggest decisions with this deck is do I blood moon or chalice t1? Also if you blood moon are you prevented from
Playing a follow up quickly?

[lost_ronin_soul]

Other interesting interactions and tips I found are the following. Sneaking in inferno titan/Godo end of your opponents turn can deal way more damage. Blood moon should be paired with chalice on zero against storm, reanimator, lands to avoid giving them outs with their artifact mana. Try to proxy up other legacy's decks and play them. Having the knowledge of how other decks work s gives you an edge, by making it easier to determine what the best lines of plays are. Emrakul never "attacks", it only " triggers" instead. By saying "trigger" instead of "attack" it makes it near impossible for your opponent to call a missed trigger on you (works with Godo, and inferno titan as well). When sideboarding make sure you don't dilute your deck to the point that you have only answers but no threats, otherwise it's harder to win. Most of our answers buys us time, but generally won't lock out your opponent forever. Use through the Breach to bait out counter magic at the opponents end step if you think they are sitting on permission spells. You can use chalice of the void to protect magus of the Moon from bolt, and Worldspine wurm from swords to plowshares.

[TLK]

Those are all already in the thread.

The best piece of advice is to learn how to mulligan. It is extremely relevant because this deck is bad at mulliganing.
You need to keep a hand with action. Can you prevent your opponent from playing? Or can you go off fast? Knowing your meta and identifying what your up against helps tremendously. One of the biggest decisions with this deck is do I blood moon or chalice t1? Also if you blood moon are you prevented from
Playing a follow up quickly?

Didn't see anything in the OP, so thought I'd ask. I think mulliganing properly has been my biggest weakness.

[Zooligan]

Didn't see anything in the OP, so thought I'd ask. I think mulliganing properly has been my biggest weakness.

I've been reading through the old pages of the thread and found a few nuggets, but nothing structured like would go in a primer.

[ZEROorDIE]

so the red gearhulk has been revealed. seems playable in this deck

Combustible Gearhulk
4RR
Artifact Creature - Construct
First strike

When Combustible Gearhulk enters the battlefield, target opponent may have you draw three cards. If the player doesn't, put the top three cards of your library into your graveyard, the Combustible Gearhulk deals damage to that player equal to the total converted mana cost of those cards
6/6

so your opponent can let you refill or risk taking lethal damage. revealing emrakul and seething song is enough to kill a player who fetched twice.

[Zooligan]

As is always the question, what would you cut for it?

[Gheizen64]

As is always the question, what would you cut for it?

The batterskull/Godo package is probably the worst creature package of the deck, mostly because of how clunky batterskull can be since it don't work with Sneak and need a Godo, and is just average if hardcasted compared to inferno and Wurmcoil. Wurmcoil being worse vs swords but w/e.

I think it's arguably as good as inferno titan. While it has less utility at removing annoying critters, people will make you draw 3 more often than not with this deck, to avoid being killed by the variance (and that's not so unlikely with an average cmc slightly above 3 but with 30 cards that cost 0). And a draw 3 while not as good as a draw 7, is really good especially when you consider he's reasonably hardcastable.

[TLK]

The obvious answer is Godo, since it occupies the same CMC. It could also replace Pyromancy in the board, as it fills a similar role of direct damage to bypass Bridge.

[Zooligan]

I don't know... I think for 6 mana I'd rather have my Godo and the lifelinking Batterskull that hangs around.

[James718]

The obvious answer is Godo, since it occupies the same CMC. It could also replace Pyromancy in the board, as it fills a similar role of direct damage to bypass Bridge.

If you replace pyromancy you will never win through a humility

[TLK]

If you replace pyromancy you will never win through a humility

Great point.

[ZEROorDIE]

yeah, I'm not sure how good it will be, I'll probably be testing 2. just looked pretty interesting and at least worth talking about.

no trample/evasion is a pretty big detractor. bricking on your 3 then getting chumped by a Pyromancer token would be pretty depressing

[Xod]

-1 batterskull
-1 godo
+2 combustible gearhulk

So I have a creaturepackages of:
2 gearhulk
1 godo (and 1 batterskull)
2 inferno titan
2 emrakul
2 worldspine wurm
3 grisselbrand

[potatodavid]

I'm cutting Godo & Skull for new gearhulk. Even if I mill 3x zero cost cards. I won't be drawing them. Seems groovy to me.

[James718]

I'm cutting Godo & Skull for new gearhulk. Even if I mill 3x zero cost cards. I won't be drawing them. Seems groovy to me.

It's worth testing but I am not sold on this guy. He can easily be chumped. And his ETB trigger can go many ways. Why not just add more inferno Titans?

[potatodavid]

It's worth testing but I am not sold on this guy. He can easily be chumped. And his ETB trigger can go many ways. Why not just add more inferno Titans?

6/6 first strike is pretty sweet. I'm not cutting titan at all.

I would

3x Titan
3x Griz
2x Emmy
2x Wurm
3x Construct

[TLK]

6/6 first strike is pretty sweet. I'm not cutting titan at all.

I would

3x Titan
3x Griz
2x Emmy
2x Wurm
3x Construct

I like that creature configuration. Yes, Gearhulk can be chumped, but so can Batterskull (although you do gain life). Not many creatures can tangle with a 6/6 first striking body.

[Captain Hammer]

so the red gearhul has been revealed. seems playable in this deck

Combustible Gearhulk
4RR
Artifact Creature - Construct
First strike

When Combustible Gearhulk enters the battlefield, target opponent may have you draw three cards. If the player doesn't, put the top three cards of your library into your graveyard, the Combustible Gearhulk deals damage to that player equal to the total converted mana cost of those cards
6/6

so your opponent can let you refill or risk taking lethal damage. revealing emrakul and seething song is enough to kill a player who fetched twice.

I agree, the card seems great for the deck. Much better than Godo. Also pairs beautifully with Madcap Experiment for any lists that opt to play it along with 4 Blightsteel.

[Mafu13]

I feel like if I knew I was vsing Mono R Sneak, and a Hulk lands, I'm not letting them mill for a chance to be killed by variance. Which means Hulk is letting you draw 3 most times. And as it's been said, milling 3 low drops is fine as you probably didn't want them at this point if you have resolved a Hulk.

[lost_ronin_soul]

My new thoughts on the current cards that are coming out: Gearhulk is not what the deck wants because it's too slow to actually win the game. When you sneak it in your going to only draw 3 cards( which is okay) but I don't think it matches up to the damage that Inferno Titan or Godo can bring to the table. Also Godo and Inferno Titan close out the game much quicker so it is harder for your opponent to draw and answer for it. Having first strike is okay but it's not like it is trample. So it would be fine against things like Miracles until they got like a monastery mentor and Chump block you for days. The same can be said about young pyromancer. I will be playing 0 copies of this card and testing 0 copies of this card because I do not think its effect is enough to actually win games. A 6/6 draw 3 is less powerful then grislebrand so it can't replace sneak fatties. I feel if you can cast this card you are probably winning the game anyways and you're not really in a better position then whether it was an inferno Titan godo being casted. Titan and Godo also help swing the board position and stabilize the deck by removing creatures or gaining life, where this card is at best a one creature wall if you life us low opening you up to potential alpha strikes that Godo and titan could have answered.

I also changed my stance slightly on the new Chandra. While I take a very strong liking to the card but I decided it's probably not worth the main board. It seems better as a sideboard. The deck wants to effectively win the game Around Turn 3 or quicker between lock pieces and combo pieces. Chandra does not allow that to happen, at best she allows you to be casted on Turn 2 and then cast a locked piece if you do not have a combo ready to go off. I do think it would be good against Miracles and possibly even Delver so I will have 3 copies in my sideboard for testing purposes. I just feel that well she's better at grinding games out. it's better to actually just win the game 1 and then play through the hate Games 2 and 3 and I think she is better at post board games. I suspect she lines up well against ensnaring bridge, Thalia, containment priest, Delver, wasteland, karakas, pithing needle (go ahead and not name sneak attack, i dare you)which are cards our opponents will Mulligan to find.

[potatodavid]

Also pairs beautifully with Madcap Experiment for any lists that opt to play it along with 4 Blightsteel.


This is a bad idea for so many reasons.

You're probably gonna hit a chalice and lose a ton of life.

[Gheizen64]

I'm playing this version of Big-Red. It's more of a cross between stompy and big red, using the new chandra and Daretti.


4 Combustible Gearhulk
3 Thopter Engineer
3 Myr Battlesphere
4 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon

4 Grim Monolith
1 Chrome Mox
2 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4 City of Traitors
3 Sandstone Needle
12 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb

SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Sudden Shock
SB: 3 Rolling Earthquake



SB is a big work in progress. It play more of a planeswalker stompy with big artifact sinergies to dump down bombs every turn. Engineer is essentially a body for welding plus a chump block for your walker, while giving haste to your bombs and she's red so pitchable to mox if needed. Chandra is amazing in here, she accellerate easily everything if she's down and untap monoliths, deal damage or draw when you're hellbent, her ulti is nothing to write home about but it works. Landcount is much higher than classic big red because you usually want 3-4 mana down consistently after you land a walker to allow you to cast your fatties afterward or weld.

This started with madcap initially, but not running Chalices and artifact accelleration (mostly monolith) is just too big of an issue for this kind of deck. With no chalice your creatures get sworded and you get cantripped/dazed to hell and back. Your accelleration is a bit more questionable too, monolith give you an extremely easy way to cast your fatties and weld later.

[James718]

Running this at the SCG Classic in Orlando. May all of my openers have hate.

[James718]

At SCG Orlando legacy Classic , Was 2nd going into top 8 at 6-0-1.

I lost to miracles in the first round of top 8 :(

Was able to chalice t1 but wasn't able to follow up. Kept drawing lands and BS cards

[TLK]

Nicely done! What did you play against in the Swiss rounds? Are you on the Gearhulk train or are you pretty satisfied with the 75 the way it is?

[James718]

R1. Beclher
R2. Eldrazi
R3. MonoU Omnitell
R4. Eldrazi
R5. Death and taxes
R6. ID
R7. ANT

No I'm not on gear hulk. After today I def want to cut godo/skull. I might put a Chandra in the main or not Titans. I never wanted to see those cards and they were always there in my top 8 loss matches

[Xod]

Congrats James!

Can you share your list?

[James718]

I'm def open to gear hulk but not sold on him right now.

http://http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=09/18/2016&end_date=09/18/2016&start=1&finish=16&city=Orlando&state=FL&country=US (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=09/18/2016&end_date=09/18/2016&start=1&finish=16&city=Orlando&state=FL&country=US)

[Zooligan]

After today I def want to cut godo/skull. I might put a Chandra in the main or not Titans. I never wanted to see those cards and they were always there in my top 8 loss matches

Would Sundering Titan be better than Batterskull, esp against Miracles who have plenty of basics which marginalize our Blood Moons?

[caprino]

I'm def open to gear hulk but not sold on him right now.

http://http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=09/18/2016&end_date=09/18/2016&start=1&finish=16&city=Orlando&state=FL&country=US (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=09/18/2016&end_date=09/18/2016&start=1&finish=16&city=Orlando&state=FL&country=US)

Nice list...side in and side out Vs miracle, ant, delver deck, bug? Thanks

[caprino]

R1. Beclher
R2. Eldrazi
R3. MonoU Omnitell
R4. Eldrazi
R5. Death and taxes
R6. ID
R7. ANT

No I'm not on gear hulk. After today I def want to cut godo/skull. I might put a Chandra in the main or not Titans. I never wanted to see those cards and they were always there in my top 8 loss matches
Godo /skull is nice?

[Xod]

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21336&iddeck=163484

Does anybody know what that 60th card was? Probably a land, maybe a Plateau or Crystal Vein.

I like the build with Nahiri. I think Jeff tried something similar but without great success. This list just puts Nahiri in the 3 Flex slots and adapts the sideboard.

[James718]

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21336&iddeck=163484

Does anybody know what that 60th card was? Probably a land, maybe a Plateau or Crystal Vein.

I like the build with Nahiri. I think Jeff tried something similar but without great success. This list just puts Nahiri in the 3 Flex slots and adapts the sideboard.

That's a wonky manabase. I'd hope the missing card is a land.

Nahiri solves some problems for the deck but it's too slow. We also have no way of protecting her. I feel that if we get her to ultimate we've already won the game.

[TLK]

I'm sure this has been suggested before, but what about Wurmcoil Engine in the Godo slot? Acts as a mini Worldspine Wurm as it leaves behind 2 guys after Sneak Attack/Through the Breach. No evasion sucks, but just curious if anyone has tried it. Maybe more Titans is just better?

[potatodavid]

I'm sure this has been suggested before, but what about Wurmcoil Engine in the Godo slot? Acts as a mini Worldspine Wurm as it leaves behind 2 guys after Sneak Attack/Through the Breach. No evasion sucks, but just curious if anyone has tried it. Maybe more Titans is just better?

It was played prior to switching to GODO

Godo was used because he helps the Miracles matchup as they can't terminus away the skull just the token.

[James718]

It was played prior to switching to GODO

Godo was used because he helps the Miracles matchup as they can't terminus away the skull just the token.

Also batterskull gets around a humility, actually it gives us a 5/5 vigilance life linker

[TLK]

Ah, that makes sense. So are we sticking with Godo for now since there aren't many other viable replacements? Has anyone tried Gearhulk?

[Zooligan]

Ah, that makes sense. So are we sticking with Godo for now since there aren't many other viable replacements? Has anyone tried Gearhulk?

Lots of speculation and theorycrafting, but as of yet no tangible results that I know of.

[potatodavid]

I fully plan on trying gearhulk. I play in a fairly relaxed environment though. I don't hit big tournaments often, but he looks extremely playable.

[Rocco111]

Hi Guys,

I have been testing the deck with both Sin Prodder and Gearhulk maindeck and even though it has only been on Cockatrice, I am very happy with the synergy of the 2 cards in this shell.
I happen to have litteraly killed my opponent when they took the risks of putting cards in the graveyard instead of letting me drawing.
It does feel a bit like a gamble at times but it gives quite a satisfying feeling to reveal Emrakul or Griselbrand to either Prodder or Hulk.

[TLK]

Hi Guys,

I have been testing the deck with both Sin Prodder and Gearhulk maindeck and even though it has only been on Cockatrice, I am very happy with the synergy of the 2 cards in this shell.
I happen to have litteraly killed my opponent when they took the risks of putting cards in the graveyard instead of letting me drawing.
It does feel a bit like a gamble at times but it gives quite a satisfying feeling to reveal Emrakul or Griselbrand to either Prodder or Hulk.

Interesting. Do you run 2 of each in the Godo/Batterskull slots?

[James718]

Hi Guys,

I have been testing the deck with both Sin Prodder and Gearhulk maindeck and even though it has only been on Cockatrice, I am very happy with the synergy of the 2 cards in this shell.
I happen to have litteraly killed my opponent when they took the risks of putting cards in the graveyard instead of letting me drawing.
It does feel a bit like a gamble at times but it gives quite a satisfying feeling to reveal Emrakul or Griselbrand to either Prodder or Hulk.

I hated sin prodder.

[Rocco111]

Interesting. Do you run 2 of each in the Godo/Batterskull slots?

I started to run 3 Gearhulk and 3 Sin Prodders.
Now I am testing with 4 of each (and 4 Emrakul, 4 Grisel) to maximize the potential damages.

[Zooligan]

If Gearhulk doesn't end the game, it increases our exposure to Surgical Extraction-type effects on our fatties.

[James718]

If Gearhulk doesn't end the game, it increases our exposure to Surgical Extraction-type effects on our fatties.


Chalice trigger

[Zooligan]

Chalice trigger

If ya got it down, yeah. I usually end up with Blood Moon when I need Chalice, and Chalice when I need Blood Moon.

[potatodavid]

If Gearhulk doesn't end the game, it increases our exposure to Surgical Extraction-type effects on our fatties.

If someone brings in Surgical Extraction in against us. Our opponent is dumb as hell.

[hdeck12]

Please bring in all the surgicals

sin prodder = bad
gearhulk = good

[TLK]

Anyone test the Gearhulk yet? I haven't had much time to play recently.

[MaximumC]

Anyone test the Gearhulk yet? I haven't had much time to play recently.

I played against a mono-red deck using Gearhulk online. I won against it playing Stasis, of all things. So, no, I don't think it's great.

When he cast the Gearhulk, I was at 15. I shrugged and he went off, doming me for 11. Who cares? As long as he can't do the last 4, I win the game.

EXTREME PUNISHER card is still just a Punisher.

[potatodavid]

I played against a mono-red deck using Gearhulk online. I won against it playing Stasis, of all things. So, no, I don't think it's great.

When he cast the Gearhulk, I was at 15. I shrugged and he went off, doming me for 11. Who cares? As long as he can't do the last 4, I win the game.

EXTREME PUNISHER card is still just a Punisher.


You mean to tell me that the Stasis/counter spell deck actually beat the deck that wants to alpha strike on 1 big turn? And your 1 game small sample playing a really fringe deck is enough definitive proof to tell me that it's not good?

This seems reasonable, I will listen to every knee jerk thing you say.

[hdeck12]

Top 8'd a 2k this weekend.

Ran 1 hulk main. The two times he came down it was "draw 3, shut down goyf till everything's in the yard". Seemed fine, he's nothing incredible, but seems to make the cut as card 59/60 for me.

[TLK]

Congrats. What list did you run? I'm trying to tune my 75.

[hdeck12]

Congrats. What list did you run? I'm trying to tune my 75.
Thanks.


Currently on:

7 mountain
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
3 crystal vein
1 sandstone needle

4 simian spirit guide
4 seething song
3 lotus petal

4 sneak attack
4 through the breach
1 pyromancy

3 emrakul, the aeons torn
3 worldspine wurm
3 griselbrand

4 chalice of the void
3 blood moon
2 godo, bandit warlord
2 batterskull
1 combustible gearhulk

//SB
2 chaos warp
2 trinisphere
2 aether flash
1 kozilek's return
1 sudden shock
1 null rod
1 shatterstorm
1 tormod's crypt
1 inferno titan
1 koth of the hammer
1 blood moon
1 pyromancy

[TLK]

Interesting list. How are you liking the 3 Crystal Vein? I just run 1, but sometimes I like it better than CoT.

[hdeck12]

Interesting list. How are you liking the 3 Crystal Vein? I just run 1, but sometimes I like it better than CoT.

meh, got sick of sandstone needle coming in tapped. It's a suitable replacement, still helps going off early if you need, not coming in tapped makes sequencing easier.

[Misdirection]

Saw Hiser top16 SCG classic with Combustible Gearhulk mono red sneak.

Hiser, is that new addition working for you?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=108855

[TLK]

This list apparently 5-0'd a League:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13805&d=281451&f=LE

No Griselbrand.

[Hyze]

Saw Hiser top16 SCG classic with Combustible Gearhulk mono red sneak.

Hiser, is that new addition working for you?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=108855


Honestly I'm torn on the gearhulk. I will need to test it a lot more.
BUT Chandra was amazing every time she hit the board.

[Zooligan]

Honestly I'm torn on the gearhulk. I will need to test it a lot more.
BUT Chandra was amazing every time she hit the board.

Is this Chandra better than Pyromaster version? Where does this version shine brightest?

[Hyze]

Is this Chandra better than Pyromaster version? Where does this version shine brightest?

Yes, this Chandra is a ton better. All her abilities are just nuts.

[potatodavid]

We're an Established deck now!!!!! GREAT JOB EVERYONE!

[potatodavid]

Despite me being a huge doubter of new chandra... I think I might have to try her out.

[Quentin Coldman]

Hey guys I really like the deck, but one question: Why no one is playing Blightsteel Colossus anymore? In most cases I guess he's instant win.

Thx

[Zooligan]

Hey guys I really like the deck, but one question: Why no one is playing Blightsteel Colossus anymore? In most cases I guess he's instant win.

Thx

Too easy to get stuck dealing 8 or 9 poison and not have another infector to finish off with.

[brenden2000]

Considering building this deck and also picking up the stuff to play Eldrazi, by getting rid of my cube. Is this an investment I will regret. I know this quesiton is super objective.

[hdeck12]

Hey guys I really like the deck, but one question: Why no one is playing Blightsteel Colossus anymore? In most cases I guess he's instant win.

Thx

Stoneforge/batterskull made him not great, deathrite shaman made him terrible.

[hdeck12]

Honestly I'm torn on the gearhulk. I will need to test it a lot more.
BUT Chandra was amazing every time she hit the board.

Still a doubter too, but I'm not shy to try new things.

Was it mostly: Play Chandra, Kill their 1 dude, draw an extra card till she either dies or you win?

I see the add two red being useful in situations, but the lesser used ability. I also can't imagine she lives long enough to ultimate. Did you get to use either of those abilities? And if so, what'd it do for you other than "win more"?

[jbone2016]

So...I ended up 7-3 at eternal weekend with big red, in 52nd place with two of my losses coming to people in the top 8. I'll right a full report when I get home but the main deck is hiser's list -3 gearhulk +2 wurmcoil engine +1 new chandra.

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[jbone2016]

Main
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Worldspine Wurm
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Through the Breach
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Seething Song
10 Mountain
1 Sandstone Needle
4 Sneak Attack
4 City of Traitors
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blood Moon

Sideboard
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Sudden Shock
3 Trinisphere
1 Anarchy
1 Stranglehold
2 Faerie Macabre

[Zooligan]

Sideboard
1 Anarchy
1 Stranglehold

How often did you get to use your 1-of SB cards? Were they worth the slots?

[Xod]

Was it mostly: Play Chandra, Kill their 1 dude, draw an extra card till she either dies or you win?

+1: Exile the top card of your library. You may cast that card. If you don't, Chandra, Torch of Defiance deals 2 damage to each opponent.

So if you draw a big baddy, you can't even sneak/breach him/her into play...
Unless your hardcast it. But I guess between hardcastable targets getting damage in and the 2 extra damage might be interesting. And otherwise it just filters.

[jbone2016]

How often did you get to use your 1-of SB cards? Were they worth the slots?

I boarded in anarchy twice against d and T, didn't see it either time
Stranglehold once vs lands, didn't see it.

Results were:
Round 1: Beat burn in 3.
Round 2: Beat 4 color delver in 3. (Andrew Boswell)
Round 3: Beat lands in 3.
Round 4: Lost to 4 color Deliver in 3 (Jarvis Yu, top 8'd)
Round 5: Beat eldrazi in 3.
Round 6: Lost to D and T in 2 (Pengyu Chen, top 8'd)
Round 7: Beat D and T in 2.
Round 8: Beat Infect in 2.
Round 9: Lost to land in 3.
Round 10: Beat Burn in 3.

With Lots of D and T, might go to a 3rd titan main. Also going to try Aether Flash in the board.

[potatodavid]

I boarded in anarchy twice against d and T, didn't see it either time
Stranglehold once vs lands, didn't see it.

Results were:
Round 1: Beat burn in 3.
Round 2: Beat 4 color delver in 3. (Andrew Boswell)
Round 3: Beat lands in 3.
Round 4: Lost to 4 color Deliver in 3 (Jarvis Yu, top 8'd)
Round 5: Beat eldrazi in 3.
Round 6: Lost to D and T in 2 (Pengyu Chen, top 8'd)
Round 7: Beat D and T in 2.
Round 8: Beat Infect in 2.
Round 9: Lost to land in 3.
Round 10: Beat Burn in 3.

With Lots of D and T, might go to a 3rd titan main. Also going to try Aether Flash in the board.

Thanks for doing god's work dude. We'll have have to try Aetherflash.

[TLK]

Thanks for doing god's work dude. We'll have have to try Aetherflash.

I've seen most lists just run Pyroclasm. Is that not an option?

[jbone2016]

I've seen most lists just run Pyroclasm. Is that not an option?

Sometimes....an early aether flash just shuts down most weenie decks. Another lock piece, also just kills almost everything except for angel tokens in miracles.
Sulfur elemental was useful but limited. K Return is still good (instant and colorless was awesome)
Volcanic fallout was used before to a point. Sudden shock is the cleanup factor.

[potatodavid]

I'm on the Kozilek's Return band-wagon just because it wipes out mom and other pro creatures. Makes Gaddock teeg eat a dick too.

[Fallen_Empire]

Main
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Worldspine Wurm
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Through the Breach
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Seething Song
10 Mountain
1 Sandstone Needle
4 Sneak Attack
4 City of Traitors
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blood Moon

Sideboard
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Sudden Shock
3 Trinisphere
1 Anarchy
1 Stranglehold
2 Faerie Macabre


Seems crazy to me to only have 2x Emrakul's and 2x Worldspine's. Those are your horses. Seems like those should automatically be 4 ofs. I guess you are just banking on having Griselbrands to draw on. Not a fan of Crystal Vein?

[potatodavid]

Seems crazy to me to only have 2x Emrakul's and 2x Worldspine's. Those are your horses. Seems like those should automatically be 4 ofs. I guess you are just banking on having Griselbrands to draw on. Not a fan of Crystal Vein?

Snuck in griseldaddy is almost always a win on the spot. Emmy can me mediocre if you turn 1 on an open board, then proceed to not draw the remaining gas. Griselbrand love him or hate him, (I LOVE HIM) is just great for winning games.

[TLK]

Looks like the Godo/Batterskull build 5-0'd a league. Sideboard had some interesting inclusions, such as Eidolon of the Great Revel.

[potatodavid]

Looks like the Godo/Batterskull build 5-0'd a league. Sideboard had some interesting inclusions, such as Eidolon of the Great Revel.

Post the list homie, don't leave us hanging.

[TLK]

My bad.

Here you go:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain
3 Sandstone Needle
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach
2 Batterskull
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack

2 Ashen Rider
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Pyroclasm
2 Sudden Shock
3 Trinisphere

[Quentin Coldman]

What you guys think about running Fiery Confluence in the sideboard? Cmc 4 is not a problem, and it's both massremoval + artifactremoval. It also can kill an opponent after an Emi or Wurm attack. I ordered 3 pieces to give it a try.

[jbone2016]

What you guys think about running Fiery Confluence in the sideboard? Cmc 4 is not a problem, and it's both massremoval + artifactremoval. It also can kill an opponent after an Emi or Wurm attack. I ordered 3 pieces to give it a try.
I saw this in the board of dragon stompy deck. It seemed interesting. Thinking about 2 in the board this weekend.

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[potatodavid]

I don't hate it. (fiery confluence)

[hdeck12]

I don't hate it. (fiery confluence)

I'm thinking this can open up a SB slot or two by combining the x/2 board wipe and the artifact removal.

[potatodavid]

I'm thinking this can open up a SB slot or two by combining the x/2 board wipe and the artifact removal.

I do like Instant speed of Kozilek's return and its mom proof.

[potatodavid]

Kasey taking 2nd

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=109530

[TLK]

I like the list. I have yet to test Gearhulk or Chandra, but they seem to be the real deal (4 copies of Chandra in his 75).

[hdeck12]

I do like Instant speed of Kozilek's return and its mom proof.

How often do you actually find yourself needing to be mom proof? It's not nothing, but it's rare she needs to be dealt with to win the game. Yes she protects hate bears, but our plan varies enough to the point a singular hatebear isn't enough. I haven't settled on dropping Kozileks yet, but the (completey uncalculated) feelings tell me I'd want the versatility more often than the colorlessness. Than again, 3 mana's and 4 mana's is very different when facing down an emptied warren.....

[potatodavid]

How often do you actually find yourself needing to be mom proof? It's not nothing, but it's rare she needs to be dealt with to win the game. Yes she protects hate bears, but our plan varies enough to the point a singular hatebear isn't enough. I haven't settled on dropping Kozileks yet, but the (completey uncalculated) feelings tell me I'd want the versatility more often than the colorlessness. Than again, 3 mana's and 4 mana's is very different when facing down an emptied warren.....

Well... it stops them from protecting teeg... so it's got that going for itself, which is nice.

[hdeck12]

Well... it stops them from protecting teeg... so it's got that going for itself, which is nice.

Fair defense. I was tunnel visioned into thinking about the mono-white matchup, sometimes I forget that f***er exists.

[Misdirection]

Fair defense. I was tunnel visioned into thinking about the mono-white matchup, sometimes I forget that f***er exists.

Another fxxker to kill is Containment Priest. Unfortunately mom is its companion

[caprino]

This list apparently 5-0'd a League:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13805&d=281451&f=LE

No Griselbrand.

I test this list...today 4 1 win Vs 2 bug, 1 eldrazi, 1 infect, lose Vs miracle..what do you think this list no grisel?

[Hkarto]

that was mine ages ago, griselbrand or not, this deck want to see a wurm. AND I personally dont like griselbrand, just one man's choice over another

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[Misdirection]

Guys, what is the better lock piece against elfs?
I suppose chalice is good but I am not so sure about sphere or blood moon here.

Blood Moon can lock him out of black mana, and if the opponent is carelessly not to fetch basic, you may just win. On the other hand, a single forest is enough to cast elf and most of their critters.

Trinisphere will help slow them down definitely and there is no more fun glimpse turn. But that still does not stop them from Natural Order or grind you out with elf beats

[potatodavid]

Guys, what is the better lock piece against elfs?
I suppose chalice is good but I am not so sure about sphere or blood moon here.

Blood Moon can lock him out of black mana, and if the opponent is carelessly not to fetch basic, you may just win. On the other hand, a single forest is enough to cast elf and most of their critters.

Trinisphere will help slow them down definitely and there is no more fun glimpse turn. But that still does not stop them from Natural Order or grind you out with elf beats


Ahhh elves. If you have elves in your meta Inferno Titan should be a minimum 3 of. I digress.

What I do.

-4x blood moon
-2x chandra

+ 2 Kozelieks Return
+ 3 Trinisphere
+ 1 Sudden shock.

Moon is great for turning off cradle and bayou but they're a deck based on having the elves to power those things. Chandra is too narrow and slow, K return can reset the game at instant speed, sudden shock is just extra removal. Trinishphere should slow them down enough where you can just shit on them.

Hope this helps.

[Misdirection]

Thanks potato.
Against reanimator, seems the matchup is quite bad though. They are usually just faster than you. Besides sb in gy hate, and trinisphere in place of blood moon, chandra, what are other suggestions you may have?

[caprino]

Ahhh elves. If you have elves in your meta Inferno Titan should be a minimum 3 of. I digress.

What I do.

-4x blood moon
-2x chandra

+ 2 Kozelieks Return
+ 3 Trinisphere
+ 1 Sudden shock.

Moon is great for turning off cradle and bayou but they're a deck based on having the elves to power those things. Chandra is too narrow and slow, K return can reset the game at instant speed, sudden shock is just extra removal. Trinishphere should slow them down enough where you can just shit on them.

Hope this helps.

Write you main deck list and side ok? Thanks (help me side guide, side out and side in. Thanks)

[jbone2016]

Well, since I'm going to GP Louisville, I might as well throw my current list up (David knows about it)


4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Sandstone Needle

Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
1 Ingot Chewer
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 fiery confluence
3 faerie Macabre
2 unknown

So, main deck is pretty standard with some variation on the creatures. Might put the 3rd chandra in the board and go with a 4th titan but not sure yet.
I expect a bit of reanimator, so the macabare seem needed but I was also thinking about possibly an O stone as a colorless sweeper....or possibly aligned hedron network...or ugin/karn
thoughts?

[hdeck12]

Guys, what is the better lock piece against elfs?
I suppose chalice is good but I am not so sure about sphere or blood moon here.

Blood Moon can lock him out of black mana, and if the opponent is carelessly not to fetch basic, you may just win. On the other hand, a single forest is enough to cast elf and most of their critters.

Trinisphere will help slow them down definitely and there is no more fun glimpse turn. But that still does not stop them from Natural Order or grind you out with elf beats

Inferno Titan. If he resolves (barring an awkward game state) they lose.
VS elves, I rank lock pieces as follows.. 1. Trinishphere, 2. Chalice, 3. moon.

[hdeck12]

So, main deck is pretty standard with some variation on the creatures. Might put the 3rd chandra in the board and go with a 4th titan but not sure yet.
I expect a bit of reanimator, so the macabare seem needed but I was also thinking about possibly an O stone as a colorless sweeper....or possibly aligned hedron network...or ugin/karn
thoughts?

First time I've ever read aligned hedron network. I don't hate it at all. Gets worse if they know you have it, but should surprise anyone counting on Iona. I don't love any of the reanimator options but I use tormods crypt when I have to.

Good luck in Louisville, I wish I could make it, let us know how it goes.

[Misdirection]

Thanks Potato and Hiser for comments.
Against DNT, my current plan is to side in removal spell and artifact removal in place of chalice.
Will also leave in blood moon as against DNT, you lose to mana screw by wasteland/port more than anything else.

Is this plan the best we have?
Understand Titan is huge in this matchup as well

[jbone2016]

Well, since I'm going to GP Louisville, I might as well throw my current list up (David knows about it)


4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Sandstone Needle

Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
1 Ingot Chewer
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 fiery confluence
3 faerie Macabre
2 unknown

So, main deck is pretty standard with some variation on the creatures. Might put the 3rd chandra in the board and go with a 4th titan but not sure yet.
I expect a bit of reanimator, so the macabare seem needed but I was also thinking about possibly an O stone as a colorless sweeper....or possibly aligned hedron network...or ugin/karn
thoughts?

Went 4-0 in local legacy today.
Beating miracles, bug delver in 3, lands, and miracles in 3.
Main was the same. Board was -1 chewer, -1 macabre, +2 O. Stone, +1 Boil, +1 Anarchy
Did play the O. Stone vs miracles never got to 5 mana to activate it (jace kept me off lands)

[potatodavid]

Went 4-0 in local legacy today.
Beating miracles, bug delver in 3, lands, and miracles in 3.
Main was the same. Board was -1 chewer, -1 macabre, +2 O. Stone, +1 Boil, +1 Anarchy
Did play the O. Stone vs miracles never got to 5 mana to activate it (jace kept me off lands)

Boil did work against Miracles?

[jbone2016]

Boil did work against Miracles?
Never drew it. Brought in boil, anarchy, fiery x2, 3 ball x2, sudden x 2, o stone x2. Took out moons, songs, 1 breach, 1 sneak. Sadly never drew past a 3rd land.

Boil did work against Miracles?


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[CovenantElite30]

http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Indomitable-Creativity.jpg



Is it just me or should this card go directly into this deck?

[CovenantElite30]

http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Indomitable-Creativity.jpg



Is it just me or should this card go directly into this deck?
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/869e27b51815f6cb1dd209fbcd7bb376.jpg

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[Captain Hammer]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/869e27b51815f6cb1dd209fbcd7bb376.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Its a very cool card. I would worry about fizzling unless we tweak the list to better support it. Because it would suck to invest a bunch of mana and destroy our own artifacts just to get a Lotus Petal, Simian Spirit Guide and/or Chalice at 0.

Probably well worth testing though.

[hdeck12]

Its a very cool card. I would worry about fizzling unless we tweak the list to better support it. Because it would suck to invest a bunch of mana and destroy our own artifacts just to get a Lotus Petal, Simian Spirit Guide and/or Chalice at 0.

Probably well worth testing though.

Thinking this would be a board cad maybe? Close out the long stalled games when you draw multiple lock pieces? Tricky cause every thing you add to sac means higher chance to hit another....interesting card to brew with.

[hdeck12]

Anyone play today?

[Ganfar]

Its a very cool card. I would worry about fizzling unless we tweak the list to better support it. Because it would suck to invest a bunch of mana and destroy our own artifacts just to get a Lotus Petal, Simian Spirit Guide and/or Chalice at 0.

Probably well worth testing though.

Add 4 of the red artifact lands instead of 4 mountains. They are still artifact under blood moon

[jbone2016]

Anyone play today?
I know of at least 4 big red decks (myself included) that played this weekend. 3 of which made day two. One of them finished in the top 64 (a very unique white bordered one). Personally I finished 10-5 (after two byes), playing no eldrazi, d and t or miracles all weekend. I'll get a full decklist and report when I get home later today.

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[Damaku]

At first: I want to see this white(bordered) whale. :D

To all GP Players: please share your lists and experiences.

[jbone2016]

At first: I want to see this white(bordered) whale. :D

To all GP Players: please share your lists and experiences.

Ask and ye shall receive.

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Sandstone Needle

Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 fiery confluence
3 faerie Macabre
2 stormbreath dragon

Macabre was a hedge against reanimator, stormbreath was the tech for miracles/d+T....which was wasted.

[hdeck12]

I know of at least 4 big red decks (myself included) that played this weekend. 3 of which made day two. One of them finished in the top 64
::Insert many thumbs up emojis::

And watch out for whiteboarder, those revised mountains, do not mean terrible burn deck......well done bud!

[jbone2016]

Matchups

Round 1/2: byes. gotta love to sleep in. Which may have bited me in the ass (more on that in a bit)

Round 3 (Belcher) (on play)
Game 1: I mulligan after seeing 3 sol lands, 3 song and something else. I keep my 6 and start with mountain. I don't get a second turn.
Out: Moon x4, Emmy x2 In: 3-ball x3, k-return x3.
Game 2: I mulligan again after seeing no hate, I keep my 6 with a chalice and bottom an inferno titan(I could have snuck in turn 2 i think but not hardcast.). I go petal, chalice on one with a city. My bad in this matchup since it should be on 0 or 2.
He goes and makes 14 goblins with 3! petals. I have 2 turns to find a return....noope. Good start 2-1 (0-2)

Round 4 (shardless Bug) (not sure)
Game 1: I mulligan again (probably to many mana sources) to a hand with no land but was explosive. I get hymned out and double goyf beats.
Out: song x4, In: 3-ball x3, ?
Game 2: Looked like a repeat of game one. 2-2 (0-4)

Round 5 (Bomberman....yes, you heard me right) (not sure)
Game 1: After he plays a mox opal, LED and pyrite spellbomb a light goes off in my head. I play a chalice on 0, while he durdles (plays a bridge) and I play a chandra and keep ticking her up.
I ultimate her and then 15 him.
Out: Moon x4, Emmy x1? In: 3-ball x3, fiery confluence x2
Game 2: turn 2 recuriter, crack LED get containment priest. I show him the power of inferno titan. 3-ball lands and titan mops up. So he is at 12 with a titan I play, he goes 9. He does have a blocker (salvagers), I didn't play my mountain (I have 2 in play but a spirit guide in hand), I bluff him into not blocking then he asks if I have a seething song....nope just this mana monkey.
3-2 (2-4)

Round 6 (Omni Tell) (on draw)
Game 1: turn 2 show into omni, play emmy. Game took 1 minute
Out: Blood moon x4, song x4? In: Trinisphere x3, ???
Game 2: He countered stuff but I think I landed a sneak but couldn't find a big fattie before he showed his Emmy.
3-3 (2-6)

Round 7 (Lands) (on play)
Game 1: opp mulls to 6. I think I go turn 2 moon after he manabonds turn 1 (not discarding) and that is it
Out: no idea, in : no idea
Game 2: I'm pretty sure I turn one griselbrand and wurm
4-3 (4-6)

Round 8: (elves) (on play)
Game 1: opp mulls, keeps a loose 6 with just an arbor. Pretty sure turn 2 mooned him and then emmy did most of the work and SSG cleaned up
Out: Moon x4, chandra x3, ??? In: trinsphere x3, k-return x3, confluence x2
Game 2: I got 3-ball out, got reclamation saged, got a chalice out, got decayed. Had a 2nd chalice in hand, while I decided to play a sneak with no monster. He kills me next turn by using the ability from a q. ranger he just cast.
Game 3: I draw 8 cards on accident (it was an awesome 7) sadly, I only have 2 lands and I don't want him to take the tomb, So I take the mull to 6 (after the head judge comes over to explain it)
I keep tomb, petal or ssg, k-return, song, chalice, sneak....seems good. The scry was worldspine. Chalice on 1 (which he might had a TS), sneak in the wurm and call it a day.
5-3 (6-7)

Round 9: (b-r reanimator) (on play)
Game 1: I keep city, mountain, at least 2 chalice, moon? (not sure what else)Turn 1 chalice on one. Sadly I go against playing another land for a couple of turns while he durdles, finally play the chalice on 2 to lock him out.
Out: Blood Moon x4, chandra?. In: Faerie x3, trinsphere x3
Game 2: I mull to 6. keep tomb, city, song, sneak, griselbrand x2 (just need a red source), scry a petal.
Turn 1: he doesn't have the annex and just plays a looting. I sneak griseldaddy into play draw 14 find another fattie and on to day 2.
6-3 (8-7)
It should be noted that my opp complained (when I was going off game 2) that my cards were warped. I get called up to the scorer's station (about 2 minutes after the match ended) and have a chat with the judge. He sees how I shuffling (I'm not gently). He checks out the cards after I'm done shuffling. Some are warp/bent but nothing consistent (lands and spells, a mix of each). He suggests shuffling the face of the cards towards me to get them "unbent". I proceed to do so when I get to back to the hotel. While doing this my foriegn Emmy is visible warped and won't stay flat. I buy a new one when I get to the hall.

Round 10 (grixis delver) (on draw)
Game 1: Chalice on one resolved after he got a delver out (on one and flipped). He gets a pyro out and starts jamming one drops to make tokens. I resolve a titan and take over.
Out: Songs x4 In: trinisphere, k-return?
Game 2: I mull and keep a sketchy hand while he builds his board, at one point he probes (while I have chandra in hand that he hasn't seen, and I won't win this game, so I scoop.)
Game 3: I keep something bad while he probes/therapies the crap out of me.
6-4 (9-9)

Round 11: (Grixis Delver) (unsure)
Game 1: He gets a early delver and flips it on turn 3. I resolve one chandra and kill the delver. He kills the chandra. I get another. I run him over with something big.
Out: Songs x4, In: Sudden shock x2, stormbreath x2
Game 2: Early DRS and pyro pressure me. I land a chandra and start going to work. I notice he is lacking a red mana source, so I sudden shock the DRS. Zombie fish is beating me up. I land a titan to clean up the board but leave the titan on defense for a turn (I was at 4) before attacking and forcing him to block with it. At the end of the game he has 3 bolts in hhand.
7-4 (11-9)

Round 12: (Goblins r/w) (on draw)
Game 1: Turn one lackey via caverns. I go song, chalice on 1, blood moon. Sadly.....no follow up. Lackey does what is best.
Out: Chandra x3, CoTV x4, Breach x2 In: Fiery Confluence x2, 3-ball x3, k-return x3, sudden shock x1
Game 2: Turn one lackey again. I resolve a titan and he accepts defeat.
Game 3: Turn one vial vs turn one, pitch ssg, sol land, song, sneak a wurm all while he has a mindbreak trap.....
8-4 (13-10)

Round 13: (Grixis Delver) (on draw....then play)
Game 1: So...we get deck checked....and I have an error my list. The mobile website for deck submission isn't the easist to use and they don't send you a copy or just show a screenshot of what you submitted (also first time I had done it)
In this case seething song listed twice, no SSG.
Game 2: I had an idea of what this guy was on, I was able to get a sneak in....but nothing to draw to kill him (he had probe/therapy turn 1 to take 2 griselbrand). Chandra didn't matter.

8-5 (13-11)
Round 14: (Omni-tell) (on draw)
Game 1: (mulligan)I somehow resolve a sneak attack putting griselbrand in play drawing 14 and Emmy....he pauses before I attack to see if he can do anything. Nope.
Out: Song x4, Moon x1 In: 3-ball x3, fiery x2 for some reason
Game 2: I keep a hand with 2 3-balls and a emmy. He forces the first 3-ball, lets the 2nd resolve. swan songs my breach or sneak. Shows in an omni.....while I bring in emmy.....then he tries to cost emmy. No sir. 3 mana please. Even called a judge over (the one in play was foreign, the one in the yard was English)
9-5 (15-11)

Round 15: (Elves) (on draw)
Game 1: Chalice on one turn one, wurm turn 2. good enough.
Out: Blood moon x4, chandra x3 In: 3-ball x3, return x3, confluence x1
Game 2: I have a chance to chalice on one (using a ssg), I don't do it and he goes off.
Game 3: I keep a hand of tomb, petal x2, mt x2, k return, titan (snap keep). Just need to survive until turn 3. I take some early beats but land the titan and win.
10-5 (17-12)

Good enough for my first pro point.
Very odd seeing no miracles (17%), eldrazi (2%) or d +T (9%).
I'm thinking 3 Chandra's in the main is one too many. Probably put the 3rd one in the board. The stormbreath's were a wasted sideboard slot. There is a thought about putting a sarkhan in the main like dragon stompy.
I'm also thinking that defense grids in the board could help in control matchups where we want a fast kill (so we don't SB the songs)

Any thoughts?

[jbone2016]

At first: I want to see this white(bordered) whale. :D

To all GP Players: please share your lists and experiences.

http://imgur.com/gallery/ZCpJc

[James718]

http://imgur.com/gallery/ZCpJc

I sat next to another mono red sneak attack player in round 11 or 12 with a white boarded deck. Was this you?

[jbone2016]

I sat next to another mono red sneak attack player in round 11 or 12 with a white boarded deck. Was this you?
The white bordered one isn't mine. Mine is nothing fancy.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[henweigh]

Buying that Emrakul on the spot must have been pricey.


Ask and ye shall receive.

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

3 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Sandstone Needle

Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 fiery confluence
3 faerie Macabre
2 stormbreath dragon

Macabre was a hedge against reanimator, stormbreath was the tech for miracles/d+T....which was wasted.

[vieko]

I'm also thinking that defense grids in the board could help in control matchups where we want a fast kill (so we don't SB the songs)
Any thoughts?

Like this very much, 2-3 Defence Grid should do it... thanks for the report!

[whiteborder]

I sat next to another mono red sneak attack player in round 11 or 12 with a white boarded deck. Was this you?

Hey, James718. I'm the white border MRSA player. Sorry we couldn't talk much during the match I didn't want to upset my opponent and then we never caught up. Your foil version of the deck was awesome and quite the opposite of white borders!

[whiteborder]

At first: I want to see this white(bordered) whale. :D

To all GP Players: please share your lists and experiences.

Hey, here's a picture from last summer: http://imgur.com/twbLuAW

a few cards have changed but still same idea ;)

I finished 54th place with a record of 11-4. Matchups:

Round 1/2 Byes (won a GPT a couple months prior)
Round 3 win Miracles 2-1 play
Round 4 loss Sneak & Show 1-2 play
Round 5 win U/B Tezzeret 2-1 draw
Round 6 win RUG Delver 2-1 play
Round 7 win BUG Delver 2-1 draw
Round 8 win U/R Delver 2-1 play
Round 9 win Elves 2-0 draw
Round 10 win BUG Delver 2-1 play
Round 11 loss Miracles 1-2 play
Round 12 loss Infect 0-2 draw
Round 13 win B/R Reanimator 2-1 draw
Round 14 win Death & Taxes 2-0 draw
Round 15 loss Sneak & Show 0-2 play

It was a great weekend!

[caprino]

Hey, here's a picture from last summer: http://imgur.com/twbLuAW

a few cards have changed but still same idea ;)

I finished 54th place with a record of 11-4. Matchups:

Round 1/2 Byes (won a GPT a couple months prior)
Round 3 win Miracles 2-1 play
Round 4 loss Sneak & Show 1-2 play
Round 5 win U/B Tezzeret 2-1 draw
Round 6 win RUG Delver 2-1 play
Round 7 win BUG Delver 2-1 draw
Round 8 win U/R Delver 2-1 play
Round 9 win Elves 2-0 draw
Round 10 win BUG Delver 2-1 play
Round 11 loss Miracles 1-2 play
Round 12 loss Infect 0-2 draw
Round 13 win B/R Reanimator 2-1 draw
Round 14 win Death & Taxes 2-0 draw
Round 15 loss Sneak & Show 0-2 play

It was a great weekend!
Nice list..side in and side out Vs all game you play thanks

[whiteborder]

::Insert many thumbs up emojis::

And watch out for whiteboarder, those revised mountains, do not mean terrible burn deck......well done bud!

haha thanks hdeck12! I like that you knew it was me just from hearing about white borders...and no they ain't revised mountains they're unglued! :tongue:

[hymnyou]

Hey, here's a picture from last summer: http://imgur.com/twbLuAW

a few cards have changed but still same idea ;)

I finished 54th place with a record of 11-4. Matchups:

Round 1/2 Byes (won a GPT a couple months prior)
Round 3 win Miracles 2-1 play
Round 4 loss Sneak & Show 1-2 play
Round 5 win U/B Tezzeret 2-1 draw
Round 6 win RUG Delver 2-1 play
Round 7 win BUG Delver 2-1 draw
Round 8 win U/R Delver 2-1 play
Round 9 win Elves 2-0 draw
Round 10 win BUG Delver 2-1 play
Round 11 loss Miracles 1-2 play
Round 12 loss Infect 0-2 draw
Round 13 win B/R Reanimator 2-1 draw
Round 14 win Death & Taxes 2-0 draw
Round 15 loss Sneak & Show 0-2 play

It was a great weekend!

Are you the same dude who white bordered UR delver? Theres a guy from the SE (possibly charlotte) I ran into a few times a year or two ago who was always real cool playing white bordered UR delver. Saw your friend playing this deck at the Atlanta Invitational side-events a few months ago, he said he was borrowing from his friend. Either way nice finish!

[whiteborder]

Are you the same dude who white bordered UR delver? Theres a guy from the SE (possibly charlotte) I ran into a few times a year or two ago who was always real cool playing white bordered UR delver. Saw your friend playing this deck at the Atlanta Invitational side-events a few months ago, he said he was borrowing from his friend. Either way nice finish!

Thank you! And yep, that's me (Mark Evans) from Charlotte and I did lend the deck out at the ATL invi. I have a lot of white border cards...enough to make Temur or Grixis Delver in legacy. However, there is another guy in Charlotte that has a couple white border lands in U/R Delver (Dalton) but that's not me. At large events I've played WB Naya Zoo Burn in Modern and WB Mono-Red Sneak Attack in Legacy.

I need to take some new full deck pictures but here's a few:

Legacy RUG Delver: http://imgur.com/otbfszK
Modern Naya Zoo Burn: http://imgur.com/kYtELnb
Legacy Mono-Red Sneak Attack: http://imgur.com/rUYew5X

[canz]

Won Fnm

2-0 vs Storm - Draw
2-0 vs Mono brown stax? - Draw
2-1 vs DnT - Draw
2-0 vs True-name Bug - Draw

Lost all the die rolls so I was on the draw in matches

4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Worldspine Wurm
2 Combustible Gearhulk

2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4 Sneak Attack
4 Blood Moon

4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal

10 Mountain
1 Sandstone Needle
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

[TLK]

Seems like people are definitely moving away from the Godo/Batterskull package in favor of Chandra and Red Gearhulk. Has that been working out well?

[potatodavid]

Seems like people are definitely moving away from the Godo/Batterskull package in favor of Chandra and Red Gearhulk. Has that been working out well?


Yeah I wouldn't have believed it until I started seeing it first hand. Her +1 sometimes is a clock. Just exile the land and deal em 2.

[potatodavid]

3-1 Last night.

Had 3 chandra's main board. Seemed alright enough.

Board:

2x Chewers
2x Kozlieks Return
2x Defense Grid
3x Triniballs
2x Moonman
2x Sudden Shock
2x Pyromancy (i just can't quit you)

[hdeck12]

Picked up 3 chandras saturday, godo got the cut.

[potatodavid]

Picked up 3 chandras saturday, godo got the cut.

I didn't think I would like her all that much, she's oddly resilient though. I hate godo batterskull. I never felt like it won me any games ever.

[HomicidalRambo]

New to deck. Really like the hard hitting style. Played stompy a bunch as well sneak n show. So know mechanics well. My question is what do people SB out mainly when putting your SB cards in. I've done 2-3 petal/ ssg then mana issues. SB out Chandra's a bunch which I think is wrong. Just curious from guys on here who know deck inside and out. Should I never touch mana base etc? Just general tips and I'll learn from there. Thanks.

[potatodavid]

New to deck. Really like the hard hitting style. Played stompy a bunch as well sneak n show. So know mechanics well. My question is what do people SB out mainly when putting your SB cards in. I've done 2-3 petal/ ssg then mana issues. SB out Chandra's a bunch which I think is wrong. Just curious from guys on here who know deck inside and out. Should I never touch mana base etc? Just general tips and I'll learn from there. Thanks.

Never board out the following cards:

1. your lands
2. Your petals
3. Your monkey's

Those are you 3 sacred cows. They allow our deck to do our deck's things.

Cards to board.

When playing against FOW decks, generally it's best to board out Seething songs in favor of stuff like, trinisphere, Defense grid, Extra Chandra, Pyromancy.

Against other chalice decks. Remove the chalices.

[potatodavid]

Gonna Try some Spicy silly stuff in the next couple weeks. Stay tuned.

[koten]

Quick question for the Big Red players, if I'm sitting at a fairly healthy life total (e.g. 16+), do I let you draw 3 off Gearhulk or risk the burn damage?

[jbone2016]

Quick question for the Big Red players, if I'm sitting at a fairly healthy life total (e.g. 16+), do I let you draw 3 off Gearhulk or risk the burn damage?

Hardcast and with no or 1-2 mana left? Draw three.
Snuck in and no red mana left. Draw three.
Snuck in and and one red left? Lean towards mill.
Snuck in and at least two red left? Probably mill.

[whiteborder]

Hardcast and with no or 1-2 mana left? Draw three.
Snuck in and no red mana left. Draw three.
Snuck in and and one red left? Lean towards mill.
Snuck in and at least two red left? Probably mill.


Quick question for the Big Red players, if I'm sitting at a fairly healthy life total (e.g. 16+), do I let you draw 3 off Gearhulk or risk the burn damage?

The average mana cost of the deck is around 3.1-3.2 with 27-28 cards being 0 with land, chalice, and petals. Unless very low on life I think mill damage is the better choice for opponents.

[Varal]

The average mana cost of the deck is around 3.1-3.2 with 27-28 cards being 0 with land, chalice, and petals. Unless very low on life I think mill damage is the better choice for opponents.

Average is irrelevant, probability to flip a lethal combination is the relevant metric. You'll never flip average results, only really and really high results.

[potatodavid]

Creature (14)
2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Griselbrand
3x Inferno Titan
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Worldspine Wurm

Enchantment (8)
4x Blood Moon
4x Sneak Attack

Planeswalker (3)
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Land (19)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
9x Mountain
2x Sandstone Needle
Instant (8)
4x Seething Song
4x Through the Breach
Artifact (8)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Lotus Petal

Sideboard (15)
2x Defense Grid
2x Faerie Macabre
2x Kozilek's Return
2x Magus of the Moon
2x Pyromancy
2x Sudden Shock
3x Trinisphere

So there's been an influx of shardless//BUG lately. Gave the old BIG red a shot yesterday and drew in the top 4 with a few people. Did win the overall swiss too.

Games

Round 1. Shawn on Miracles.

Game 1. He has a well timed spell pierce that keeps me from resolving sneak attack. I lose to a pile of angels a couple turns later.
-4 Moon
-4 seething song
+2 Degrid
+3 Trinisphere
+2 Pyromancy
+1 sudden shock
Game 2: Turn 1 Trinisphere, turn 2. sneak attack + Worldspine. Turn 3 win
Game 3. Turn 1 Defense Grid, Turn 2 Sneak attack Emmy, then topdecked the wurm next turn.

Round 2. Adam on Burn

Game 1. Turn 2 through the breach into worldspine
-4 Blood Moon
+2 Sudden shock
+2 Kozilek's Return
Game 2. He leads goblin guide. I have 2 city of traitors, worldspine wurm, chalice, Sandstone needle, sudden shock and emrakul. Guide swings and gives me a mountain. I play needle and pass. He swings again (through the breach on top) I city, chalice for 1. pass. He smash to smithereens my chalice. I sudden shock the goblin after the trigger. (another through the breach) Next turn worldspine comes to the party.

Round 3. Dennis on UR Delver.

Game 1. Chalice for 1, chalice for 2. He concedes
-4 seething song
-4 blood moon
+2 k Return
+2 sudden shock
+2 trinisphere
+2 defense grid
Game 2. I keep hand with chalice and trinisphere, unfortunately i draw all lands. and he lands a couple stormchasers and a young pyromancer that get there.

Game 3. Turn 1 defense grid, Turn 2. Worldspine wurm off sneak attack.

Round 4. Eric on Death and Taxes

Game 1. Turn 1 mountain, pass. He plays Vial off plains and passes. Turn 2 Me: city of traitors, lotus petal, seething song, sneak attack, griselbrand. draw 7 SSG from the game, Emrakul, Worldspine
-4 chalice
-1 griseldad
-1 chandra
+2 Koz Return
+2 sudden shock
+ 2 pyromancy
Game 2. I turn 2 sneak attack an emrakul to wipe his board. Then rip a inferno titan next turn.

Round 5. ID into Top 4

Top 4. I suggest everyone splits the prize and we all walk away with $50.00 cash and 20 trade.

Going forward. So i completely blanked until i got home. I had zero artifact hate. Which... didn't really matter but... Next time -2 Faerie + 2 ingot chewers.

I did not try my spice which I was bragging about earlier. I'll give that a go on thursday.

[potatodavid]

Same List as above

Round 1. Joe on Nic-Fit

Game 1. Landed a blood moon then an inferno titan. He concedes after the second titan comes down.
No board changes because nic fit...
game 2. Sneak in a wurmy wurm turn 2. He has the commander BB sac a dude instant. Followed by maelstrom pulse on the tokens. Next turn I literally rip another wurm.
We have a talk about what to pulse, I tell him that he made the right call by going with the wurm tokens. ripping the second one was pure dumb luck.

Round 2. Kyle on Landstill.

Game 1. Sneak in a Gris. on turn 3 or so.
Game 2. He hits draws 9 cards off standstill but doesn't find a force. I eventually land a sneak, asks if I have a body I say yes and packs it in.
Kyle is one of the better control players and all around players in our meta, i will say this result was entirely dumb luck because i should not have won a game where he draws 9 cards off standstils.

Round 3. (new guy at the store) Storm

1. apparently chalice on 1 did work. Then chandra + inferno titan gets there.
I saw Trop, Underground, Island, Swamp so i figured he was on bug and board in magus.
Game 2. Turn 4 storm's me to death. Ah... so I know what to do now. I throw him on tilt when he starts to combo and i simply say "Chalice" on his first spell. (kinda feel like a dick for doing that, but I really don't)
Game 3. Turn 1 chalice, turn 3 emrakul sneak, turn 4 trinisphere. Turn 5-6 titan. (opponent informs me had me turn one if I didn't have the chalice, cool story bro...)

[Misdirection]

is chalice on 0 a better deal against storm?

[potatodavid]

is chalice on 0 a better deal against storm?

If I can, I go Chalice 1, Chalice 2. Then Chalice 0.

[gRR!!]

Hey there folks,

Since the beginning of March, I've played Big Red in 3 small tournaments (10-15 people) and 1 Catalan Legacy League (60-some players). I've made 3-1, 3-0-pact and 3-0-pact in the small tournaments and 4-2 in the CLL, finishing 13rd. This have been my matchups so far:

1 win vs Pox (2-0)
3 wins vs Infect (2-1, 2-0, 2-1)
2 losses vs Sneak Show (0-2, 0-2)
1 win vs Burn (2-1)
1 win/1 loss vs Shardless BUG (2-1, 1-2)
1 win vs GB Aggro (2-1)
2 wins vs Miracles (2-1, 2-1)
1 win vs Lands (2-0)
2 wins vs BUG (2-1, 2-0)
1 win vs Colorless Eldrazi (2-0)

...for a total 16 matches, with a 13-3 total in matches and 27-14 in games.

This is my current decklist and sideboard:

1 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Through the Breach
4 Sneak Attack
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Combustible Gearhulk
2 Worldspine Wurm

Sideboard:

2 Ingot Chewer
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
3 Trinisphere

The deck is surprising me a lot. Even if it seems to be too inconsistent and untrustworthy, its ability to win from diverse angles (by locking the opponent out of the game with Chalices/Blood Moons, or via brute force) makes it very intriguing and fun to play. Blood Moon is an absolute monster in the current meta. My losses so far have been versus Sneak Show twice (tough pairing, but I think variance punished me hard in both matches) and Shardless BUG, when I had to play an all-in turn 1 Blood Moon in the 3rd game, he had FoW and I didn't recover.

I haven't played versus Death and Taxes, ANT nor Reanimator yet. I don't pack any specifical hate vs Reanimator, that's a gamble so I have more slots for other pairings; I trust in my Chalices/speed/luck for that match (and lately Reanimator is not played so much here in Barcelona).

Just my two cents :smile:

[potatodavid]

Hey there folks,

Since the beginning of March, I've played Big Red in 3 small tournaments (10-15 people) and 1 Catalan Legacy League (60-some players). I've made 3-1, 3-0-pact and 3-0-pact in the small tournaments and 4-2 in the CLL, finishing 13rd. This have been my matchups so far:

1 win vs Pox (2-0)
3 wins vs Infect (2-1, 2-0, 2-1)
2 losses vs Sneak Show (0-2, 0-2)
1 win vs Burn (2-1)
1 win/1 loss vs Shardless BUG (2-1, 1-2)
1 win vs GB Aggro (2-1)
2 wins vs Miracles (2-1, 2-1)
1 win vs Lands (2-0)
2 wins vs BUG (2-1, 2-0)
1 win vs Colorless Eldrazi (2-0)

...for a total 16 matches, with a 13-3 total in matches and 27-14 in games.

This is my current decklist and sideboard:

1 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Through the Breach
4 Sneak Attack
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Combustible Gearhulk
2 Worldspine Wurm

Sideboard:

2 Ingot Chewer
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
3 Trinisphere

The deck is surprising me a lot. Even if it seems to be too inconsistent and untrustworthy, its ability to win from diverse angles (by locking the opponent out of the game with Chalices/Blood Moons, or via brute force) makes it very intriguing and fun to play. Blood Moon is an absolute monster in the current meta. My losses so far have been versus Sneak Show twice (tough pairing, but I think variance punished me hard in both matches) and Shardless BUG, when I had to play an all-in turn 1 Blood Moon in the 3rd game, he had FoW and I didn't recover.

I haven't played versus Death and Taxes, ANT nor Reanimator yet. I don't pack any specifical hate vs Reanimator, that's a gamble so I have more slots for other pairings; I trust in my Chalices/speed/luck for that match (and lately Reanimator is not played so much here in Barcelona).

Just my two cents :smile:

Great work! Sneak and Show is a weird Match-up. I've been showing in a sneak attack against them so I can immediately activate it next turn. Othertimes just dropping the emrakul makes their game incredibly awkward. Good work and nice report.

[gRR!!]

Great work! Sneak and Show is a weird Match-up. I've been showing in a sneak attack against them so I can immediately activate it next turn. Othertimes just dropping the emrakul makes their game incredibly awkward. Good work and nice report.

Is weird, indeed. Our lock pieces aren't so important against them (Blood Moon is just mediocre, and if they "got it", Chalice may be irrelevant), so we need to find our combo pieces. On the other hand, they should be really careful playing Show and Tell, so they have to find Sneak Attack. All in all I think we should be slightly favored, but my results seems to prove otherwise. Anyway, I still haven't played so much matches, so who knows :wink:

I was to write how I sideboard vs Sneak Show, only to find I'm not sure at all. They play counters, so we should take out 4 x Seething Song and enter 3 x Defense Grid, but I'm not really sure about Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void. I would side in 2 x Ingot Chewers for their Petals, and I suppose 3 x Trinispheres should also come in. In the end, I suppose I'd sideboard like this:

-4 Seething Song
-4 Blood Moon (???)

+3 Defense Grid
+3 Trinisphere
+2 Ingot Chewer

Thoughts?

[potatodavid]

Is weird, indeed. Our lock pieces aren't so important against them (Blood Moon is just mediocre, and if they "got it", Chalice may be irrelevant), so we need to find our combo pieces. On the other hand, they should be really careful playing Show and Tell, so they have to find Sneak Attack. All in all I think we should be slightly favored, but my results seems to prove otherwise. Anyway, I still haven't played so much matches, so who knows :wink:

I was to write how I sideboard vs Sneak Show, only to find I'm not sure at all. They play counters, so we should take out 4 x Seething Song and enter 3 x Defense Grid, but I'm not really sure about Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void. I would side in 2 x Ingot Chewers for their Petals, and I suppose 3 x Trinispheres should also come in. In the end, I suppose I'd sideboard like this:

-4 Seething Song
-4 Blood Moon (???)

+3 Defense Grid
+3 Trinisphere
+2 Ingot Chewer

Thoughts?

I bring in Pyromancy instead of Chewer. But your Board Strategy is in line with what i would do.

[potatodavid]

Same List, 3-0 Split top 4. Got some foily sneaks!

I'm just going to play this list until someone just destroys my whole being.

[Fallen_Empire]

Has anyone tried Fiery Confluence? Seems like it could be a good fit.

[potatodavid]

JBone has tried it.

[jbone2016]

Has anyone tried Fiery Confluence? Seems like it could be a good fit.

To some success. It is nice against D&T to hit and vial + Pyroclasm, 6 to the face of miracles (or split it up to hit jace)

[SecondSunrise]

Hi all!

I have not played mono r sneak in some time, but am thinking about going back to it. I see that, since I last played the deck, most people seem to have moved away from the Godo + Batterskull package towards some split of Chandra and Combustible Gearhulk.

Now, while I can see how Chandra is very strong against both Miracles and various BUG decks, can someone unpack the Gearhulk for me? It seems "cute" in the worst sense of the word... does it really have enough impact? Taking grr!!"s list and doing some back of the envelope math, it seems our average converted manacost is actually just about 3 mana... I just do not see at first how this card makes our deck better, other than making it even more swingy... thanks for an explanation!

[gRR!!]

Hi all!

I have not played mono r sneak in some time, but am thinking about going back to it. I see that, since I last played the deck, most people seem to have moved away from the Godo + Batterskull package towards some split of Chandra and Combustible Gearhulk.

Now, while I can see how Chandra is very strong against both Miracles and various BUG decks, can someone unpack the Gearhulk for me? It seems "cute" in the worst sense of the word... does it really have enough impact? Taking grr!!"s list and doing some back of the envelope math, it seems our average converted manacost is actually just about 3 mana... I just do not see at first how this card makes our deck better, other than making it even more swingy... thanks for an explanation!

Hey there!

To be honest, I'm still not really sold on Gearhulk. What I like about him is that is castable, but Inferno Titan is too and I feel Titan makes more impact when comes into play. Anyway, average CMC of 3 (I did the math also :smile:) means average 9 damage (and we can get lucky and hit Emmy/Wurm), plus attacking for 6 means 15 damage, but if opponent is low on life he'll probably choose give us 3 cards.

This days I can't go to my weekly LGS tournament, but if I could, I'd probably switch the 2 CGs for the 3rd Inferno Titan and another red castable card (probably, I'm still not sure about which one... 3rd Chandra? Or maybe is better play big and jam the 3rd Emmy?).

EDIT: Have you guys seen Hazoret the Fervent? It seems a nice addition for our Dragon Stompy mono-red friends. Probably not impactful enough for us, though

[SecondSunrise]

I could even see just jamming 4 Chandras, although we cannot play her off TTB or Sneak Attack, which means matchups where we want stuff at Instant speed (like D+T tapping our lands on upkeep) get a bit harder.

On the other hand, she is easily castable, helps us secure card advantage and even ramps into other pieces... dunno. Inferno Titan is a very good card as well, but can often be underwhelming against Miralces (where Godo was bad also, but Chandra is great). I guess testing the split as-is is fine to gather more data.

EDIT: Another question, how has the Defence Grid been for you? What are the matchups it is stongest in? I believe my list ran 2 Pyromancy and 1 Boil in those slots, which I have always found very strong against Miracles. I also had 2 Magus of the Moon for the BUG matchups. What is your rationale behind the 3 Defense Grids and 2 Pyroclasms?

[gRR!!]

There's no big reasoning (I'm not expert with the list, I have played maybe 20 rounds with it). I like Defense Grid vs BUG, to ensure turn 2 Blood Moon will resolve, and it should work too vs Sneak Show (but I've lost twice vs them). Pyroclasms and Sudden Shocks should be useful vs D&T, but I haven't played vs them yet. Still tweaking the sideboard to be honest, but I'm satisfied with it overall right now.

Maybe 4 Chandras is too much? I'm not sure if I want to see more than one in my opening seven. 3 can be the right number here. I'll have to buy the 3rd one foil :laugh:

I was pondering about Pyromancy, but I haven't tested it yet (I'm not really convinced about it, it seems to me that we will have too much cards in hand to actívate it for profit, but probably I am totally wrong).

[SecondSunrise]

There's no big reasoning (I'm not expert with the list, I have played maybe 20 rounds with it). I like Defense Grid vs BUG, to ensure turn 2 Blood Moon will resolve, and it should work too vs Sneak Show (but I've lost twice vs them). Pyroclasms and Sudden Shocks should be useful vs D&T, but I haven't played vs them yet. Still tweaking the sideboard to be honest, but I'm satisfied with it overall right now.

Maybe 4 Chandras is too much? I'm not sure if I want to see more than one in my opening seven. 3 can be the right number here. I'll have to buy the 3rd one foil :laugh:

I was pondering about Pyromancy, but I haven't tested it yet (I'm not really convinced about it, it seems to me that we will have too much cards in hand to actívate it for profit, but probably I am totally wrong).

I tested and then played the deck at MKM Prague last year, but I am not an expert by any means with it. Pyromancy is actually great against Miracles as just another business spell they have to counter. Since they have a hard time pressuring us (the odd Mentor + 2 Tops draw notwithstanding), a resolved Pyromancy will win the game eventually, since we usually end up with all fatties in hand and no way to cast them.

The same reasoning applies to Boil, it is just another must-counter spell to make sure our actual end game spells (TTB and Sneak Attack) can resolve.

3 Chandra sounds about right. Maybe we could just keep 1 Gearhulk for the lolz.

I played against D+T a couple of times and Sulfur Elemental + Sudden Shock were enough for me, I did not miss Pyroclasms. The matchup is very swingy and higly dependant on how their draw shapes up against ours, pretty even overall. Castable Inferno Titan is massive obviously XD

[gRR!!]

I see the advantages of playing Pyromancy vs Miracles, yes; 3 Chandra + 2 Pyromancy as "must counter" cards should put a lot of pressure on them.

Same about Pyroclasm; Sulfur Elementals + Sudden Shocks should cripple D&T badly. Plus, Pyroclasm is not so good vs other pairings like Infect neither. So I suppose I'll make the switch in the sideboard, -2 Pyroclasm +2 Pyromancy. MD I'll try and remove the 2 Gearhulk and add 3rd Inferno and 3rd Chandra :)

[SecondSunrise]

Please let us know how it works out! For what it's worth, I just sent a tweet at Jeff Hoogland because I was curious; he said that when he tested Gearhulk last October, Gearhulk was very mediocre for him. Unfotunately the list from that testing session has been lost, so I do not know what the exact configuration was.

[mistervader]

What sideboard do you guys recommend against graveyard-based decks? My meta is always infested with at least Reanimator and Dredge at any given time, and I didn't want to sacrifice Chalice at 1 just to have Surgical Extraction in there. Would a couple of Tormod's Crypts be the key?

[Fallen_Empire]

What sideboard do you guys recommend against graveyard-based decks? My meta is always infested with at least Reanimator and Dredge at any given time, and I didn't want to sacrifice Chalice at 1 just to have Surgical Extraction in there. Would a couple of Tormod's Crypts be the key?

faerie macabre

[jbone2016]

So.....locally we had a big team tourney today (one format of each). I was the lucky one to play legacy. Team Finished 3-2-1. I finished 4-1 (and a match that was going to game 3)

Decklist:

1 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Through the Breach
4 Sneak Attack
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Worldspine Wurm

Sideboard:


2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 Defense Grid
3 Trinisphere
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pyromancy
2 Ratchet Bomb

Match 1 (team drew)
Aggro Loam
Game 1: Early Blood moon, then Spaghetti happens.
Game 2: I stick a 3ball and a sneak, but I never find a fattie.
Game 3: He goes turn 1, mox, mox, KoTR, then Bob. I resolve a sneak with a song, and activate with one red left. He has a Karakas up, so I can do the Emrakul activate again but I go with sneaking in titan to kill a bob and the KOTR which is a 5/5 now. Next turn. Spaghetti. I'm pretty sure he had 7 permanents, so Emrakul was the more aggressive route. I played it safe.

Match 2 (team won)
Burn
Game 1: Stuck an Inferno Titan turn 2, attacked and played confluence to 6 his dome.
Game 2: Turn one wurm. Match

Match 3 (team lost)
Miracles
Game 1: Early blood moon slows things down, before I resolve a sneak with griselbrand, draw a lot. And then kill him the next turn.
Game 2: Some early counters from him (and a timely disenchant on a chalice for one) makes this game go long but top/CB/jace does it
Game 3: didn't happen

Match 4 (team won)
Enchantress
Game 1: I get a sneak out but no monster. Gets O-ringed. I get Chandra to 7. He plays a Leyline of Sanctity. And then hard casts an Emmy.
Game 2: I keep a greedy one land City with multiple songs, sneak/breach, monster and chalice. Go Chalice on one. Durdle for a couple of turns. Find my SSG and smash his face in.
Game 3: He goes 2 exploration to drop 3 land in play. I go with a turn one wurm.

Match 5 (team lost)
Mirror.
Yep, the Mirror. With the Hyze himself.
Game 1: I win the die roll but mull to 6. I think I die on turn 3.
Game 2: He breaches a Grisel and draws 14 but doesn't find a fatty. His batterskull (which got confluenced) and SSG knock me down for a while but I get up and Emmy him.
Game 3: Sadly, I mull to 5 and I'm never in the game

Match 6 (team won)
Storm
Game 1: His duress has to take a moon over a breach with a griselbrand in my hand. Get a chalice for zero out after the attack (and drawing 14). He ded next turn
Game 2: He mulls to 5, while I get moon and chalice on one out. Wurm cleans up in a couple turns after.

Thoughts:
Fiery confluence can probably go back to the board. Maybe one godo/skull each in the main?
The board:
2 Kozilek's Return (stays)
2 Sudden Shock (stays)
2 Defense Grid (??)
3 Trinisphere (stays)
2 Ratchet Bomb (I like it)
2 Fiery confluence (leaning towards yes)

Faerie has been lackluster. Pyromancy/Revoker are meh. Damping Matrix had been a thought (stops Top, DRS, random other stuff). Tsabo's Web for Karakas, port, Maze...etc

[L10]

Congrats to Nathaniel Red for making Top 4 with Big Red!
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=112709

Creatures (15)
2 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
3 Griselbrand

Lands (19)
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Sandstone Needle

Spells (26)
2 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach

Sideboard
3 Trinisphere
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyromancy
1 Boil
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock

[Zooligan]

Congrats to Nathaniel Red for making Top 4 with Big Red!

With a name like that, how could you play anything else but Big Red?? :)

[potatodavid]

Thoughts:
Fiery confluence can probably go back to the board. Maybe one godo/skull each in the main?
The board:
2 Kozilek's Return (stays)
2 Sudden Shock (stays)
2 Defense Grid (??)
3 Trinisphere (stays)
2 Ratchet Bomb (I like it)
2 Fiery confluence (leaning towards yes)

Faerie has been lackluster. Pyromancy/Revoker are meh. Damping Matrix had been a thought (stops Top, DRS, random other stuff). Tsabo's Web for Karakas, port, Maze...etc

i've been debating dropping pyromancy lately. No one is really playing reanimator lately so I have not needed nor cared to play faerie mccabre. Tsabo's web feels too narrow of a board card, its only really good against lands/death and taxes.

[benjiman13]

Someone is playing with Sin Proder ? Against what decks you want to use it?

[Jorrit]

Hi There,

After playing years of different show and tell builds i currently rocking this deck.

My current build is:

10x mountain
2x crystal vein (didn't like sandstone needle because of comming into play tapped)
4x ancient tomb
4x city of traitors
4x petal
4x SSG
4x Chalice
4x Blood moon
4x Song
4x Sneak
4x TTB
3x Chandra
3x Titan
3x Grisel
2x Emrakul
2x Wurm
Current sideboard:

2x magus of the moon
2x kozilek's return
2x pyromancy(will become sulfur elemental
2x sudden shock
2x shattering spree(will become ignot chewer)
2x defense grid
3x trinisphere

Last tournament i went 4-0-1(drawing into top 8)

The only problem i have is playing against D&T.
It's a 30/70 win percentage for me right now.
I understand you want a hand that will win fast, but you don't always get those hands.
Thalia, revoker, me mooning my own sol lands just keep me losing.

How do you guys manage to win this matchup?
Wat do you board?

[quadich]

so this deck appears to be the new metahoser now.

[benjiman13]

so this deck appears to be the nwe metahoser now.

Not sure that with more fast decks (Elves, TES, Belcher, BG Depths...) and some blades decks (esper, stone and death), Big Red will stay on the rise...

We will see if the 4C control deck keep going or not...

[potatodavid]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the deck now.

[pinkfrosting]

Not sure that with more fast decks (Elves, TES, Belcher, BG Depths...) and some blades decks (esper, stone and death), Big Red will stay on the rise...

We will see if the 4C control deck keep going or not...

Miracles was not the beast holding TES and belcher back. Belcher preyed on miracles because they only had FoW and takes 2-3 turns to set up the cb lock. It's tempo delver decks that keep turn 1 combo in check with daze/stifle/fow/pierce

[Fallen_Empire]

Serious question here. Why has the conventional wisdom been a 2/2 Wurm/Emmy split? We have 8x sneak attack like cards, but only 4x heavy hitter creatures. I get that grisel daddy is a draw engine but wouldn't playing 3 or 4 Wurms be more optimal. Just reading the game recap results from this forum and playing this deck at home, it seems like one of the biggest ways to lose playing this deck is to just not draw any fatties. Shouldn't we play more to increase the probably we draw them? 2x Emmy & 3-4x Wurms?

[potatodavid]

Serious question here. Why has the conventional wisdom been a 2/2 Wurm/Emmy split? We have 8x sneak attack like cards, but only 4x heavy hitter creatures. I get that grisel daddy is a draw engine but wouldn't playing 3 or 4 Wurms be more optimal. Just reading the game recap results from this forum and playing this deck at home, it seems like one of the biggest ways to lose playing this deck is to just not draw any fatties. Shouldn't we play more to increase the probably we draw them? 2x Emmy & 3-4x Wurms?

This is a debate that comes up all the time. You're not the first and wont be the last.

Starters, the 2x2 split is a preference for most. (i am one of them) I was running into issues where 4x wurm was bad. Flickerwisp and Swords to plowshares are a real thing. The Annihilator trigger on emrakul is sometimes, he's also swords proof, and you can easily hardcast him.

So can you go 3-4 wurm? yes. Does it really matter? No not really, do what you gotta do.

[8bit9mm]

So, post Top ban (was a devoted Painter player) I've moved back to Big Red.

I've decided in a Miracles-less meta to reside the two Chandras to the SB in place of two Wurmcoil Engines. In my testing it's been great. Having another castable threat that leaves tokens behind after a Sneak has been huge. I'd like to know what your guys' thoughts on it is.

I'm running the typical creature package except I've now got a 2/2/2 split on Titan, Gearhulk, and Wurmcoil.

Also, what do you guys think of the list on MtGO that played triple 3-Ball in the main?
List here: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=15426&d=293902&f=LE

[jbone2016]

So since none of the local guys brought it up yet, monthly this past sunday, 22? people showed up. 3 on big red (could have been 4 with me). All 3 top 8.
One split in the finals with a shardless bug player (who was a miracles player for the longest time)

Also, testing a white splash for Nahiri.

[Hugoal]

Hello,

I'm writing from Italy and sorry for my bad english. I'm playing big red and I like it so much. I found this forum and your thread and for me is a pleasure to write and ask you yuor opinion about some of my last trials. I have some problems vs. 4c delver and sometime when I have bloodmoon in play and I'm playing vs deathrigth sciaman played in turn 1 or vs. delver. I'm trying new cards in main like 3 sudden shock and 3 flamentongue kavu.... incredible but true, but it won 4 game in my last tournament thanks to Kavu.

At the moment my list is:

Lands: 18
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
9 Mountain

Creatures 17
4 Simian
4 Inferno Titan
2 Griselbreand
2 Worldspine wurm
2 Emrakul of the aeons thorn
3 Flamentongue Kavu

Enchantments: 8
4 Sneak attack
4 Blood Moon

Instant and Sorcery: 9

3 Seething Song
3 Trougth the Breach
3 Sudden Shock

Artifacts 8
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the void

I'm thinking for 2 Cavern of Souls for 1 mountain and 1 Crystal Vein because if Titan comes into play 9/10 we won the game.
Side:

2 shattering spree (Vs Esnaring bridge or Pithing needle)
4 faery macabre (vs. reanimator or other deck that plays with graveyard)
1 Trough the breach (when we play vs. decks without Blue)
1 Worldspine Wurm (When we play vs decks without Blue)
2 Kozilek's Return (Vs. D&T)
4 pyroblast (i'm trying to use 3 chalice and playing it at 2 vs diabolic edict and echoing truth), however usually I play 4 defense grid and I'm also thinking in 2 defense grid and 2 cavern of souls.
1 sudden shock (Vs. D&T I use 2 kozilek and 4 sudden and no kavu. Sudden is very good vs. Thalia)

Thanks for your help.
Ugo

[Scott]

A list (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2017-05-09-0) with 4X Nahiri 5-0'd on MTGO today.

// Planeswalker (4)
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger

// Creature (13)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm

// Instant (8)
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach

// Artifact (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal

// Enchantment (8)
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack

// Land (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
4 City of Traitors
3 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Plateau

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Fiery Confluence
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 2 Stronghold Gambit
SB: 2 Sudden Shock
SB: 2 Trinisphere

[jbone2016]

A list (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2017-05-09-0) with 4X Nahiri 5-0'd on MTGO today.

// Planeswalker (4)
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger

// Creature (13)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm

// Instant (8)
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach

// Artifact (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal

// Enchantment (8)
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack

// Land (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
4 City of Traitors
3 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Plateau

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Fiery Confluence
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 2 Stronghold Gambit
SB: 2 Sudden Shock
SB: 2 Trinisphere

This would be the all and mighty Hyze.
I had kicked the idea around a while ago but never got around to testing it.

[Hugoal]

What do you think about Academy rector as option in side vs. Aggro deck like Eldrazi?

[Hyze]

What do you think about Academy rector as option in side vs. Aggro deck like Eldrazi?

No way to sac it.

Nahiri Red was fun to play.

I'm 10-4 in matches with it

[kungfugeek]

No way to sac it.

Nahiri Red was fun to play.

I'm 10-4 in matches with it

When are you bringing stronghold gambit in? Storm?

[Hyze]

When are you bringing stronghold gambit in? Storm?

Ignore the sb, I did a quick copy and paste and never adjusted it :p

[TLK]

Piloted Nahiri Red at my local legacy event last night. Went 3-1. Same MD but adjusted the SB based on my meta.

R1 vs Esper Blade:

Game 1 I have turn 1 Chalice and turn 2 Blood Moon, but then never draw a fatty. Typical flaw of this deck. Game 2 it basically boils down to Nahiri < Jace TMS.

0-1, 0-2

R2 vs The Gate

Game 1 I have turn 1 Wurm. Game 2 he tries to poison me out with Phyrexian Crusader but I'm able to ultimate Nahiri for Emrakul, leaving him with 2 permanents.

1-1, 2-0

R3 vs Mono Blue Mill/Merfolk

Weird home brew. Game 1 I get a quick Inferno Titan. Game 2 he gets beatdown with Merfolk as I stumble. Game 3 he tries the mill plan (for whatever reason) via Sphinx's Tutelage but Emrakul keeps shuffling my graveyard back into the library. I eventually win via Emmy.

2-1, 2-1

R4 vs Burn

Game 1 I lose on turn 3 when I had the kill the following turn. I was at 15. She attacked with Guide and Eidolon, knocking me down to 11. Bolt down to 8. Flame Rift and Fireblast ftw. Game 2 she misstimes a Price of Progress and I win the race via Inferno Titan. Game 3 I win via double activation of Sneak Attack. Super close match.

3-1, 2-1

Deck feels great. I think I could've gone 4-0, but the deck let me down against Esper. I do like Nahiri for filtering draws and as an alternate win con.

[Hyze]

Glad to hear you had some luck with it. Nahiri does a TON of work for the deck.

What was your sb?

[Misdirection]

Glad to hear you had some luck with it. Nahiri does a TON of work for the deck.

What was your sb?

So Nahiri is much better than Chandra in your opinion?

[James718]

I lost to Hyze's nahiri today. I laughed when I saw his name in game on MTGO. The mirror match is weird :)

[Hyze]

I lost to Hyze's nahiri today. I laughed when I saw his name in game on MTGO. The mirror match is weird :)

Yup, the mirror is basically flipping a coin 😎

[Hyze]

So Nahiri is much better than Chandra in your opinion?

WAY better imo. Chandra exiles cards vs filtering. Only downfall I've seen to running Nahiri is having to adjust the mana base.

[TLK]

WAY better imo. Chandra exiles cards vs filtering. Only downfall I've seen to running Nahiri is having to adjust the mana base.

This I can agree with. Nahiri seems much better and is a quicker alternate win con. I did lock myself out of white with Blood Moon once, though. :/

[Hyze]

This I can agree with. Nahiri seems much better and is a quicker alternate win con. I did lock myself out of white with Blood Moon once, though. :/

I've done that a few times. Would love to adjust the mana base more but I'm afraid it'd end up killing the deck.

[kusumoto]

What if you add a mox diamond?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Hyze]

What if you add a mox diamond?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Tried it, the deck doesn't run enough land :(

[Xod]

Ok, this is very iffy, but if you skip the basic plain (which I can assume would be aweful if this is your only colored resource in your hand) and if you add 1 chrome mox? You don't need to pitch a land, it accellerates (man my english is bad today :-)) more, and under a bloodmoon you can still cast nahiri (if you draw a second one) but I see this happening faster than that you would fetch for the basic plain before you cast your bloodmoon.

Just a terrible theory, but maybe worth it. On the other hand, under a bloodmoon, you still have the remaining lotuses (mostly one is already used :-)) Will, nonetheless, run the Nahiri version next bigger tournament.

[kusumoto]

your chances of having a land for diamond are still better than the chances of something white for chrome

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[Xod]

your chances of having a land for diamond are still better than the chances of something white for chrome

True, btw, shouldn't we call the Nahiri version: My Tentacle Romance :cool:

[Hyze]

your chances of having a land for diamond are still better than the chances of something white for chrome

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

So cut the plains for a diamond?

[kusumoto]

18 lands can probably support a single mox diamond just fine. It's at least worth a try

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[Xod]

Sunday I will probably play with Hyze his Nahiri version.

Any ideas for the sideboard? I was thinking about:

1 Trinisphere
2 Defense Grid
2 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Shattering Spree

Hazoret is an extra threat that is hard to remove for non-white decks, except edict effects. Boarding it in against discard decks.

[Xod]

*bump*

This is the sideboard I'm planning to use:

2 Trinisphere (storm, counters)
2 Hazoret the Fervent (extra threats)
2 Defense Grid (counters)
3 Faerie Macabre (graveyard hate through CotV/Trinisphere/Defense Grid)
2 Sudden Shock (removal hate pieces, tempo)
2 Fiery Confluence (removal hate pieces, burn, anti-artifact, sweeper)
2 Shattering Spree (extra anti-artifact that can get through CotV)

[Hyze]

*bump*

This is the sideboard I'm planning to use:

2 Trinisphere (storm, counters)
2 Hazoret the Fervent (extra threats)
2 Defense Grid (counters)
3 Faerie Macabre (graveyard hate through CotV/Trinisphere/Defense Grid)
2 Sudden Shock (removal hate pieces, tempo)
2 Fiery Confluence (removal hate pieces, burn, anti-artifact, sweeper)
2 Shattering Spree (extra anti-artifact that can get through CotV)

I run

3 Rest in Peace
4 Trinisphere
2 Sudden Shock
2 Kozileks Return
3 Ingot Chewers
1 Ashen Rider

thats my current list

[Xod]

Interesting Hyze, I might take adjust my sideboard a little bit. I'll try to post the results tomorrow evening.

[Fallen_Empire]

Interesting Hyze, I might take adjust my sideboard a little bit. I'll try to post the results tomorrow evening.

How did it go?

Also this just came to me. If we are splashing white, what about including 3x enlighten tutor & 1x blightsteel colossus. This would give us instant access to either sneak attach or a fatty.