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View Full Version : Miracle and Vendilion Clique



GoblinSettler
09-29-2012, 07:57 PM
In response to the miracle trigger, your opponent may cast Vendilion Clique and pilfer the miracle.

If you had your own V. Clique and wanted to protect the miracle, you would need to flash it in before drawing, correct? Otherwise your opponent could respond to your V. Clique with a V. Clique of their own.

Are there any priority shenanigans here to watch out for here?

Esper3k
09-29-2012, 09:00 PM
In response to the miracle trigger, your opponent may cast Vendilion Clique and pilfer the miracle.

If you had your own V. Clique and wanted to protect the miracle, you would need to flash it in before drawing, correct? Otherwise your opponent could respond to your V. Clique with a V. Clique of their own.

Are there any priority shenanigans here to watch out for here?

Even if you had your own Clique in play before they played theirs, it wouldn't stop the triggered ability from happening and letting them take your miracle away.

John Cox
09-29-2012, 09:48 PM
Even if you had your own Clique in play before they played theirs, it wouldn't stop the triggered ability from happening and letting them take your miracle away.

If you had foreknowledge of their clique you could cycle it with yours though, couldn't you?

Edit: I think what he wants to know is if because he passes priority to resolve the miracle trigger and put the terminus/temporal mastery in his hand, will that allow a clique to be put on the stack in response. I believe the miracle trigger has to resolve before his opponents Clique can be played, at which point he (as the active player) he will gain priority again first (correct me if I'm wrong) and be able to clique his opponent (if he hadn't done so before). I don't think you can clique the terminus out of his hand while the trigger is still on the stack (could be wrong here, -I'm not much of a rules guy).

Esper3k
09-29-2012, 11:55 PM
If you had foreknowledge of their clique you could cycle it with yours though, couldn't you?

Edit: I think what he wants to know is if because he passes priority to resolve the miracle trigger and put the terminus/temporal mastery in his hand, will that allow a clique to be put on the stack in response. I believe the miracle trigger has to resolve before his opponents Clique can be played, at which point he (as the active player) he will gain priority again first (correct me if I'm wrong) and be able to clique his opponent (if he hadn't done so before). I don't think you can clique the terminus out of his hand while the trigger is still on the stack (could be wrong here, -I'm not much of a rules guy).

At the time the miracle trigger is on the stack, the miracle card is in their hand (from being drawn) and is susceptible to being attacked by instant speed hand disruption (such as Clique).

I believe his question was asking if you could protect yourself from opposing Cliques by having yours in play preemptively, ie if the Legend rule would prevent them from getting the triggered ability to take your miracle (which it doesn't - their Clique would still trigger because it hit the battlefield).

John Cox
09-30-2012, 12:43 AM
At the time the miracle trigger is on the stack, the miracle card is in their hand (from being drawn) and is susceptible to being attacked by instant speed hand disruption (such as Clique).

I believe his question was asking if you could protect yourself from opposing Cliques by having yours in play preemptively, ie if the Legend rule would prevent them from getting the triggered ability to take your miracle (which it doesn't - their Clique would still trigger because it hit the battlefield).

I totally gapped out there, for some reason I thought it was revealed like from a delver. my bad.

xeraseth
10-02-2012, 05:35 PM
If you know the miracle card is on top of your Library you could play your Clique during your upkeep. Assuming it resolves you could target your opponent. They would then be forced to cast their Clique or lose it. They cast their Clique, targeting you. They put a card on the bottom and then you draw for clique which would be the first card you drew this turn (which would be your miracle card). Or they don't remove a card and you draw a card for your turn and you get to miracle again.

This is the only way I could think to protect your miracle from a Clique