[deck] Top Agent

[Mackan]

I'll make some kind of primer if I find the deck good/intresting enough. I've been playing a lot of Counterbalance the last couple of years but recently got tired of "mainstream-Miracles" everyone is running, so spiced up an old classic instead:)

1) You need to build a proper CB-curve. This list is ok, lacking a bit in the ones and twos department.

2) You have to manage your cascades. No counterspells, no legends, no "do-nothings" (except for STP, which is a necessary evil in every blue deck with jace).

3) bluecount for FOW, 24 is great since you can board out those counterbalances against maverick but keep FoW (which with all this drawing of cards is a good idea).

4) cardtypes for tarmogoyf. No tribal for those 8/9-ers but a 7/8 for 2 is enough.

4 sensei's divining top
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
4 ancestral vision
4 counterbalance
4 tarmogoyf
2 vedalken shackles
4 shardless agent
4 jace, the mind sculptor
4 force of will
3 tundra
3 tropical island
4 misty rainforest
4 flooded strand
6 island
1 forest
1 plains

sideboard
2 krosan grip
4 terminus
2 elspeth, knight-errant
2 tormod's crypt
1 grafdigger's cage
2 vendillion clique
2 meddling mage

Discussion.

No sweepers maindeck?
I really hate running dead cards maindeck, allthough Supreme verdict pitches to FoW it's better to have a continious effect against control, like vedalken shakles. I sideboard all my STP's when playing against control and shackles let you dominate and protect planeswalkers. The 4 terminus are in my sideboard anyway.

No stoneforge mystic?
I prefer tarmogoyf in this slot. Mystic requires more _mana_ and two turns of setup. This deck is defenseive and goyf does that job better.

No Snapcaster mage?
Not fun cascading Ambush Viper.

I'll update later

[Greenpoe]

8 creatures=the creatures you have will just be removal magnets, especially Goyfs. Now if you had a couple Misdirection, then you could get some serious value. (This is why Stoneforge would be good. It's a removal magnet that leaves you up on CA)

[Mackan]

8 creatures=the creatures you have will just be removal magnets, especially Goyfs. Now if you had a couple Misdirection, then you could get some serious value. (This is why Stoneforge would be good. It's a removal magnet that leaves you up on CA)

@SFM vs Goyf
I don't think the deck needs more CA. It's all about resolving visions/jace and survive decks that try to stop you. Goyf does that better than mystic. Blocking is a thing :)
An argument can be made for the turn-5-Batterskull, in other decks, in this deck we have a super-strong lategame anyway and need to focus on the first couple of turns. Brainstorming away that Batterskull is nice and all but I rather have my anti-aggro-drop not dying to Lightning Bolt. I could be totally wrong, Im just sick and tired of Stoneforge mystic right now :x

About the number of creatures... I've played more (4 mystic, 4 snapcaster, 2 clique some manlands, maybe spellstutter sprite) in other decks but mostly because of equipments. In this I think 8 is a sweet number. Enough to pressure planeswalkers but not enough that Swords to plowshares is a good card against the deck in general. I like the sweetspot having answers to everything while also negating any attempt from an opponent who goes all in against your strategy. Some strategies just roll over to infinite discard, spell pierces or leyline of the void.

I'll take it for a spin at the local 40 people tournament tomorrow, I'll post the result here:)

[Mackan]

I got a message suggesting Noble Hierarchs... At first I disliked it but it grows on me.
-2 Island -2 Vedalken shackles +4 Noble Hierarch

Pros:
Faster deck
Better CB-curve (atleast there are 4 and not 2 relevant CMC's with this switch)
Overall better mana when not facing removals.
More creatures to protect jace (or attack?!)

Cons:
Less crowd control
Overall worse mana when facing removals.

Will this more or less force some number of stoneforge mystic to the deck?
Is it possible to just go +1 green/x sword +1 jitte without mystic and keeping goyf?

[SirTylerGalt]

I like Brian DeMars' BANT control list:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/24850-Legacy-Avant-Garde-Variations-On-UW-Control.html

It's less aggressive, because it plays Terminus instead of Tarmogoyf... But I feel like it's better for this deck to focus on the control role.

[Mackan]

Thanks for the input!
I don't like terminus maindeck because it's a total blank against combo and semi-dead against control. Goyf is less powerful hosing aggro but is decent against the other half of the field. A 6 for counterbalance is also not that good... I really like the switch CB->Terminus from the sideboard when facing Tribal-aggro.
Also, without clique/snapcaster/trinket mage/stoneforge it will be a hard keeping jace alive. Terminus is good and all but I don't want to be forced to use it when something like Snapcaster mage attacks my jace...

[SirTylerGalt]

Makes sense.

If you prefer the Tarmogoyf + Shardless Agent plan, you might also find some inspiration in the Shardless BUG list (switching black for white):

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/24636-Legacy-Avant-Garde-BUG-Is-Not-A-Shard-Its-Shardless.html

You might also be interested in the "Shardless Vision" deck in this article:

http://www.channelfireball.com/home/legacy-weapon-a-spy-with-an-absence-of-shards/

It adds the Stoneforge Mystic package for some more ground presence, as well as the Thopter Foundry / Sword of the Meek combo. I guess you could replace the combo with Counterbalance, though :)


All that said, I think SFM + Goyf + Shardless Agent + 1 Batterskull is a nice creature base (+ 1 tutorable Jitte).

[Mackan]

Thanks for the links! I really like the strix/agent approach... But I guess it will suffer from the durdlyness of this deck, with a weaker manabase (playing artifact-lands). I think mox opal is seriously underplayed, and so is tezzeret, agent of bolas. There might be a list...

Report from yesterdays tournament;

List;
4 ancestral vision
4 sensei's divining top
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
4 Noble Hierarch
4 counterbalance
4 tarmogoyf
4 shardless agent
4 jace, the mind sculptor
4 force of will
3 tundra
3 tropical island
4 misty rainforest
4 flooded strand
4 island
1 forest
1 plains

sideboard
2 krosan grip
4 path to exile
2 elspeth, knight-errant
2 tormod's crypt
1 grafdigger's cage
2 vendillion clique
2 meddling mage

I switched the 2 lands 2 vedalken shackles for hierarchs which resulted in a switch terminus->path to exile in the board. I liked the hierarch and I missed terminus (not sure if playing them is the right way to do it though).

R1. Goblins splash black.

Goblins is traditionally the worst matchup of any counterbalance deck. They ignore CB with not only a high curve and vial but also cavern of souls. Trying to get there with goyfbeats is tough. I lost game1 with a hand/board that would've beat most decks.

Sideboard: -4 Force of Will -4 counterbalance. +4 path to exile +2 vendilion clique +2 elspeth, knight-errant
The plan is to be the beatdown with early goyfs and to get up in the sky with clique/elspeth for the final damage. CB really suck. Jace is kinda bad since he's easily swarmed or pyroblasted, but better than the other options. Shardless Agent makes a decent Ringleader-impression. I figured Fow is not worth it if I draw it after vial or if they start with cavern of souls.

He mulliganed while I kept a decent hand. I put some hierarch and goyfs into play, removing a blocker and attacked him down to 10. Then I played Jace followed by Elspeth. He only had a chieftain and some lands. He played perish, I puked in my mouth, he dropped Piledriver and something else killing both of my walkers. I puked again.

0-1

What can I say, it's a horrible matchup. I should've kept FoW if I knew he had Perish. Probably removing Jace Instead. I kind of like Visions over him as a card-engine because the matchup is mostly about tempo and beating down. Vision costs 1 and jace costs 4.

R2. Bye (great...)

1-1

R3. Lands.
It's a puzzle where I need CB for his Loam and enough blockers to keep his Mishra's at bay. Game goes according to plan and I win with Jace's ultimate turn ~inf. My manabase was nice and beating down was a bad plan against his 4 Mazes.

Sideboard: -4 Swords to plowshares +2 tormod's crypt +2 meddling mage
Swords is ok but not that good. If my plan is to stop the loam engine taking 2 once in a while is allright. Crypt is allright and meddling mage on loam (or whatever he's trying EE/Mind Slaver/Worm Harvest) is very good.

I have fow's but I let most of his stuff resolve. I play top. He put a few lands into play and 2X port med down until I find CB and 2 additional lands (yay for basics!). I crypt a loam. Then it takes a couple of turns before I find another basic so I can drop Jace with the tropical I have in hand (he got wasteland). Allways floating a 2 for CB. I then drop another pair of top/cb if he plays Krosan Grip. I get really lucky with jace fatesealing Mindslaver and Worm Harvest. I counter some Mox Diamond for (what I thought) no reason. But I was lucky that I did since he drew EE the turn before I had jace ulti ready. He could only sunburst for 3 so I won.

I liked my plan and sideboarding. I guess Clique is allright against Loam in general but with all the cycling lands I don't think it's worth it. The body is irrellevant.

R4. RUG (Canadian Threshhold)
I love to play against RUG. It's one of those decks where it's all about balancing your lifetotal against his taxing counters. I won the roll which allowed me to Fow his Mongoose without fear of Daze. I then dropped lands while he dug for another threat. He found (if I remember correctly) another Mongoose turn 4. I dropped goyf to halt his Mongoose. I resolved Ancestral vision, played jace. He bolted me and I went down to 3, he played another and I fowed. His hand is empty so I fateseal and put a brainstorm on bottom. He naturally draws the bolt ftw.

Sideboard: -4 Force of Will -4 Jace +4 Path to exile +2 Elspeth, knight-errant +2 Vendilion Clique. Fairly standard sideboarding. Elspeth and Clique gives me more outs to Nimble Mongoose and the 4 path should be enough to keep Delvers/Goyfs at bay.
He Ponders turn1 (phew!) and I drop some lands. I drop some hierarchs and goyf. He submerges. Pyroblast counters my CB (playing around Pierce/daze) and he drops 2 Mongeese. I get swarmed and a Submerge seals the deal. I think I played both games well but so did he, dropping those Mongeese that turn was really good. Drawing that G1 bolt too :-)

Conclusion.
I got harshly reminded about the downside of playing green (Perish, Submerge) but Im still not sure if Mystic is better, or a good complement. The hierarchs worked out pretty well. Accelerating and protecting planeswalkers is nice. The agents was also pretty good, especially game2 finding sideboarded-high-impact-cards like meddling mage or path to exile. I played some games between rounds and won some games against goblins, some against maverick but also lost when the maverickplayer did not fear Terminus. An endless stream of dudes kills this deck pre-board.
The deck is good, it's fun and durdle (which is a good thing!) but it's not AS good as other options. CB is a great card against, what I consider, good decks but really suck against everything else. I think I will move back to something more proacitve, either control with discard or high tide/tes/dredge. Im still sick and tired of the deck I probably should play (again) Miracles:)