Nivmagus Elemental and Priority?

[nevilshute]

I have a question regarding priority and Nivmagus Elemental. I'm playing a deck with this card and need to be sure I understand how it works.

Let's say it's my turn. I have said Elemental with no counters on it in play. I declare that I'm entering my combat phase. I then declare attackers, naming Nivmagus Elemental as my only attacker. My opponent has creatures in play but decides not to declare any blockers. As he does this we move to the end of 'declare blockers' phase and since I'm the active player, I get to respond first. I have a Gigadrowse in my hand and 4 blue mana sources in play. I decide to cast the Gigadrowse in response to the end of the 'declare blockers' phase. I pay the replicate cost 3 times leaving me with 4 copies of Gigadrowse on the stack.

If I am wrong in anything important in the section above I'd greatly appreciate being told what as I'm still trying to a better comprehension of the rules.

Okay, continuing: I now have four spells on the stack and I have not passed priority. We are still at the end of 'declare blockers' stage. I announce that I want to activate my Nivmagus Elemental's ability to eat spells that I control on the stack in response to them being cast. I do this 4 times. Now there are 4x Gigadrowse and 4x Elemental's activated ability on the stack. I now pass priority...

Here is where I have a question. If my opponent has been holding a [/cards]Lightning Bolt[/cards] and he decides to respond to my 8 spells/abilities that are on the stack by casting his bolt and targeting my Elemental hoping to finish it while it's still a 1/2, can I then respond to that by activating the Elemental 4 more times and re-targeting the 4x Gigadrowse effectively making the first 4 activations fizzle once they get to resolve? This way ensuring that my Elemental will get 8x +1/+1 counters regardless?

I'm sorry if it's a confusing example but I find this stuff rather confusing and would like to know if I'm even half-way right :)

[kombatkiwi]

I have a question regarding priority and Nivmagus Elemental. I'm playing a deck with this card and need to be sure I understand how it works.

Let's say it's my turn. I have said Elemental with no counters on it in play. I declare that I'm entering my combat phase. I then declare attackers, naming Nivmagus Elemental as my only attacker. My opponent has creatures in play but decides not to declare any blockers. As he does this we move to the end of 'declare blockers' phase and since I'm the active player, I get to respond first. I have a Gigadrowse in my hand and 4 blue mana sources in play. I decide to cast the Gigadrowse in response to the end of the 'declare blockers' phase. I pay the replicate cost 3 times leaving me with 4 copies of Gigadrowse on the stack.

If I am wrong in anything important in the section above I'd greatly appreciate being told what as I'm still trying to a better comprehension of the rules.

Okay, continuing: I now have four spells on the stack and I have not passed priority. We are still at the end of 'declare blockers' stage. I announce that I want to activate my Nivmagus Elemental's ability to eat spells that I control on the stack in response to them being cast. I do this 4 times. Now there are 4x Gigadrowse and 4x Elemental's activated ability on the stack. I now pass priority...

Here is where I have a question. If my opponent has been holding a [/cards]Lightning Bolt[/cards] and he decides to respond to my 8 spells/abilities that are on the stack by casting his bolt and targeting my Elemental hoping to finish it while it's still a 1/2, can I then respond to that by activating the Elemental 4 more times and re-targeting the 4x Gigadrowse effectively making the first 4 activations fizzle once they get to resolve? This way ensuring that my Elemental will get 8x +1/+1 counters regardless?

I'm sorry if it's a confusing example but I find this stuff rather confusing and would like to know if I'm even half-way right :)

If you declare that you are moving to end the declare blockers step, and your opponent passes priority, then both of you have just passed priority and the game will move immediately to the combat damage step. In order to cast Gigadrowse at the time you intend, you must do it immediately following the turn-based action of declaring blockers, when you first receive priority in the declare blockers step.

Your description of what happens next is essentially correct, although as noted above, this is not really at the 'end' of the declare blockers step, it is more like in the middle of the step, immediately after blockers have been declared.

However, there is one crucial misunderstanding that kind of wrecks this question: exiling the spells on the stack is a cost to activate the ability. The statement "Now there are 4x Gigadrowse and 4x Elemental's activated ability on the stack." is wrong, as each time you activate Nivmagus, a spell is immediately exiled as a cost to do that. After you have activated Nivmagus 4 times without passing priority, you have 4 Nivmagus activations on the stack, and zero Gigadrowses.

Therefore, when your opponent bolts your elemental, there are no more spells left for it to eat (unless you cast some more) so your trick of pumping it up in response doesn't work.

It's worth noting that "I activate this ability X times" is a shortcut in the MTR for "I activate this once, then pass priority, when it resolves, I activate it again, then pass priority, etc, until it has resolved X times" unless you explicitly state that you are retaining priority for each activation.

Relevant part of the MTR:
"If he or she adds a group of objects to the stack without explicitly retaining priority and a player wishes to take an action at a point in the middle, the actions should be reversed up to that point."

This philosophy is to prevent noobs who don't have a good understanding of the rules from being blown out in situations like:

"Activate chilling shade 10 times, kill you"
"Response Darkblast lololol"

Or like you in this situation I guess, haha

So when you declare that you're activating Nivmagus elemental 4 times, and you don't explicitly say that you're retaining priority after each activation, your opponent will have to say "wait, in response to the first activation, bolt" (otherwise Nivmagus elemental would get too big for bolt to kill it!). This means that 3 of your Gigadrowses still get to resolve, or, you can just eat them in response to the lightning bolt so that Nivmagus doesn't die! This is a better outcome than if you had activated Nivmagus 4 times while explicitly stating that you were retaining priority after each activation.

[SirTylerGalt]

I have a question regarding priority and Nivmagus Elemental. I'm playing a deck with this card and need to be sure I understand how it works.

Let's say it's my turn. I have said Elemental with no counters on it in play. I declare that I'm entering my combat phase. I then declare attackers, naming Nivmagus Elemental as my only attacker. My opponent has creatures in play but decides not to declare any blockers. As he does this we move to the end of 'declare blockers' phase and since I'm the active player, I get to respond first. I have a Gigadrowse in my hand and 4 blue mana sources in play. I decide to cast the Gigadrowse in response to the end of the 'declare blockers' phase. I pay the replicate cost 3 times leaving me with 4 copies of Gigadrowse on the stack.

If I am wrong in anything important in the section above I'd greatly appreciate being told what as I'm still trying to a better comprehension of the rules.

Seems correct.




Okay, continuing: I now have four spells on the stack and I have not passed priority. We are still at the end of 'declare blockers' stage. I announce that I want to activate my Nivmagus Elemental's ability to eat spells that I control on the stack in response to them being cast. I do this 4 times. Now there are 4x Gigadrowse and 4x Elemental's activated ability on the stack. I now pass priority...

Here is where I have a question. If my opponent has been holding a [/cards]Lightning Bolt[/cards] and he decides to respond to my 8 spells/abilities that are on the stack by casting his bolt and targeting my Elemental hoping to finish it while it's still a 1/2, can I then respond to that by activating the Elemental 4 more times and re-targeting the 4x Gigadrowse effectively making the first 4 activations fizzle once they get to resolve? This way ensuring that my Elemental will get 8x +1/+1 counters regardless?

I'm sorry if it's a confusing example but I find this stuff rather confusing and would like to know if I'm even half-way right :)

When using Nivmagus Elemental's ability, exiling the spell is a cost (you can see that, because it's separated from the rest of the ability with a colon ":" ). You can't respond to a cost. When you use the ability, the spell is exiled immediately, and the ability goes on the stack. So you can't re-use Nivmagus' ability a second time with the same spell, since the spell is already exiled before anyone gets priority.

What you could do, though, is the following:
1) You cast Gigadrowse, paying UUU for replicate
2) Gigadrowse's replicate ability triggers and goes on the stack
3) You and opponent pass priority.
4) The replicate ability resolves, you add 3 Gigadrowse copies on the stack.
5) You get priority, and use Nivmagus' ability a first time, exiling the Gigadrowse copy on top of the stack. You now have 3 Gigadrowse on the stack. Nivmagus' ability goes on the stack.
5) You get priority, you pass.

Here, if opponent passes, Nivmagus' ability resolves, he gets two +1/+1 counters, and is out of Bolt range. You can now exile the other Gigadrowse copies one by one. Let's say opponent reacts instead.

6) Opponent gets priority, casts Lightning Bolt on Elemental. Lightning Bolt goes on the stack.
7) You get priority, and use Nivmagus' ability a second time, exiling the Gigadrowse copy on top of the stack. You now have 2 Gigadrowse on the stack. Nivmagus' ability goes on the stack.
8) You and opponent pass priority.
9) Nivmagus' second ability resolves, he is now a 3/4.
10) You and opponent pass priority.
11) Bolt resolves, but does not kill Nivmagus, since it's now a 3/4.
12) You and opponent pass priority.
13) Nivmagus' first ability resolves, he is now a 5/6.
14) You get priority, and use Nivmagus' ability a third time, exiling the Gigadrowse copy on top of the stack. You now have 1 Gigadrowse on the stack (the real one). Nivmagus' ability goes on the stack.
17) You and opponent pass priority.
18) Nivmagus' third ability resolves, he is now a 7/8.
14) You get priority, and use Nivmagus' ability a fourth time, exiling the last Gigadrowse copy on the stack. Nivmagus' ability goes on the stack.
17) You and opponent pass priority.
18) Nivmagus' fourth ability resolves, he is now a 9/10.


Edit: kombatkiwi is right about the "middle of declare blockers step" and the stack shortcutting.

[nevilshute]

If you declare that you are moving to end the declare blockers step, and your opponent passes priority, then both of you have just passed priority and the game will move immediately to the combat damage step. In order to cast Gigadrowse at the time you intend, you must do it immediately following the turn-based action of declaring blockers, when you first receive priority in the declare blockers step.

Your description of what happens next is essentially correct, although as noted above, this is not really at the 'end' of the declare blockers step, it is more like in the middle of the step, immediately after blockers have been declared.

However, there is one crucial misunderstanding that kind of wrecks this question: exiling the spells on the stack is a cost to activate the ability. The statement "Now there are 4x Gigadrowse and 4x Elemental's activated ability on the stack." is wrong, as each time you activate Nivmagus, a spell is immediately exiled as a cost to do that. After you have activated Nivmagus 4 times without passing priority, you have 4 Nivmagus activations on the stack, and zero Gigadrowses.

Therefore, when your opponent bolts your elemental, there are no more spells left for it to eat (unless you cast some more) so your trick of pumping it up in response doesn't work.

It's worth noting that "I activate this ability X times" is a shortcut in the MTR for "I activate this once, then pass priority, when it resolves, I activate it again, then pass priority, etc, until it has resolved X times" unless you explicitly state that you are retaining priority for each activation.

Relevant part of the MTR:
"If he or she adds a group of objects to the stack without explicitly retaining priority and a player wishes to take an action at a point in the middle, the actions should be reversed up to that point."

This philosophy is to prevent noobs who don't have a good understanding of the rules from being blown out in situations like:

"Activate chilling shade 10 times, kill you"
"Response Darkblast lololol"

Or like you in this situation I guess, haha

So when you declare that you're activating Nivmagus elemental 4 times, and you don't explicitly say that you're retaining priority after each activation, your opponent will have to say "wait, in response to the first activation, bolt" (otherwise Nivmagus elemental would get too big for bolt to kill it!). This means that 3 of your Gigadrowses still get to resolve, or, you can just eat them in response to the lightning bolt so that Nivmagus doesn't die! This is a better outcome than if you had activated Nivmagus 4 times while explicitly stating that you were retaining priority after each activation.

Thank you very much for taking time to answer my question(s). Just to be sure I understand how to best proceed in this hypothetical situation: I declare attacker (Nivmagus Elemental), I then wait for my opponent to either declare one or several blockers. If he doesn't (i.e. says something like, "I'll take the damage"), I'll respond here by playing 4 Gigadrowse. I don't pass priority (as I obviously don't want the Gigadrowse to resolve) and respond to my Gigadrowse by activating the Elemental's ability ONCE, then passing priority. Now my opponent can choose to Lightning Bolt my elemental, but to that I can just choose to respond by removing another Gigadrowse from the stack and pumping it.

IF my opponent opts to do nothing as I pass priority after the first elemental activation, the game then lets this ability resolve giving my elemental 2x +1/+1 counters. But with three Gigadrowse on the stack, the game then asks me again "do you wish to respond"? Is this correct? Or have I now missed my chance to eat the last 3 Gigadrowse?

Edit: Nvm, that was answered by SirTylerGalt :)