BG trollvine

[thecheese]

So with the release of lotleth troll I decided to have a play with this list my biggest concern is the combo matchup high tide and the epic storm ate common in my meta. What you guys think

// Deck: BG vengevine (60)

// Lands
4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
5 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
2 Basking Rootwalla
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Gravecrawler
3 Griselbrand
4 Lotleth Troll
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
3 Vengevine

// Spells
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Recurring Nightmare

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte

[ScatmanX]

It seems that you use too many slots on the GSZ package, the GSZ itself, and the R.Nightmare package. If those were cut, you'd find more room for the really good cards on your deck, like Rootwala, Vengevine and Gravecrawler.

Why run 7 removal spells when you say you may face too much combo? Those Cabal Therapies look very good MD, giving you an extra way to sac and recast Gravecrawlers and trigger Vengevine.

[kirkusjones]

Timmycolossus and I have been working on something similar to this, our list is a little different though.

Eva Mendes

Lands - 20
4 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest

Creatures - 26
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gravecrawler
3 Vengevine
2 Wild Mongrel
2 Scavenging Ooze

Artifacts -2
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Other Spells - 12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard is in progress, but Big Game Hunter is definitely part of it.

[thecheese]

I was debating about the toolbox approach think it weakens the consistency of the deck too much when I compare it to yours also fauna shaman might be a bit slow. I can probably move some of that toolbox to the SB for accessibility with gsz .

[timmycolossus]

Playing the deck the last month now fauna was found to be too slow. We are currently testing gravecrawler and cabal therapy to if what they bring to the deck.

[Vacrix]

I agree about Gravecrawler vs. Fauna Shaman. Shaman is a good 2 'of or so. Gravecrawlers are way too good with stuff like Carrion Feeder, Troll, Vengevine, etc. Also, its worth noting that Troll's regeneration keeps Gravecrawler coming back for more.



Also, I feel like this deck REALLY wants Rancor. Troll regenerates, Vengevines and Gravecrawlers and can return from the graveyard, and Carrion Feeder gets HUGE with Gravecrawlers on the field so giving it trample is pretty good when so you don't get chumped by tokens in a combat race. I don't know why nobody is playing it in any of these lists. The list my friend was working on ran 3 in the maindeck. It gets huge with a Crawler in the yard.

And Rancor on an early Gravecrawler is a 4/1 Trampler where you don't lose anything if it dies cause you can recur Crawler and you get back the Rancor. Seems good for early pressure.


Also, Squee goes well with Fauna Shaman and Troll. It deserves a maindeck slot as a singleton.


EDIT:
Post-board Contamination might be pretty good.

[thecheese]

Speaking of lotleth troll gravecrawler interaction are there any other zombies worth adding to the mix. I'm not sold on carrion feeder because with gravecrawler and rootwalla and deathrite that's alot of one drops. But i do agree 2-3 rancors could be good in here

[paeng4983]

Can you guys make a room for blood artist and carrion and bloodghast? it seems a good idea though.

[Hanni]

@Vacrix
Rancor is a card I had not considered before. Interesting suggestion.

Probably bad for this specific deck, but in a deck with Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Vengevines... it sounds pretty good. It still runs into the classic problem of getting 2-for-1'd though (in response, kill your creature). However, turning crappy 2/1's that cannot block into 4/1 tramplers does change the aggressiveness and dynamics of the deck quite a bit.

Thanks for mentioning it. I have been working off an on with some various lists, and Rancor could give an edge back to the lists with Bloodghast. I'm still thinking the lists where I cut Bloodghast are ultimately stronger, but who knows.

[preddi]

I built a deck like this before. The R2R cards might revitalize the deck now, but I think you need more Sac outlets if you play Gravecrawler. Carrioon Feeder and Therapy seem fine, but is this enough?

[thecheese]

Well with 1 carrion feeder it's always a GSZ target. I mean I wouldn't hate drawing it but there are just not enough slots for more then 1 of him.

[lavafrogg]

Instead of fauna shaman you should use grisly salvage, it does everything you want just faster. It will dump recurrable creatures into your yard while getting you the card to bring them back(land/zombie/second green spell).

I also agree with bloodghast, and carrion feeder, but three points if you go GBR with squee and go full wild zombies!

[lavafrogg]

Well with 1 carrion feeder it's always a GSZ target, I mean I wouldn't hate drawing it just not slots for 4.

???

[uncletiggy]

thank google chrome crashing for this post not having half the substance it once did but this deck can go many different directions from fast aggro to combo control and choosing the correct incarnation is the entire battle this is not G I Joe it's not half the battle knowing what is best for what you intent to face is everything and the general synergy of the cards give you options over all five colors to pick what is best for what you expect to face this is the newest and most versatile deck of the format so get used to it and be prepared for people to start being ready for it as it already suffers splash hate from many other contenders...

P.s. you can not gsz for carrion feeder sometimes i feel like people just say things with out ever actually ever playing the game

[B4nnar]

@thecheese
Bennie's list anyone? (https://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=49525) >.<
At least post the link (although you may not if you're author of linked article).

There are tons of B/G/X (X may be 0) decks involving VV/Zombies/Madness.
Meaby instead of creating new one every week, just concentrate and create one topic for deck and it's variations.

Grisly salvage is nice, although deck requires maxing creature part for it to be effective. Fauna Shaman is nice, and while slow, if she surivives at least 2 turns she already paid more for herself than enough. 2 of. Remember that Bob requires at least turn to do something usefull aswell and without sensei topdecking VV isn't your goal.

[ahg113]

Here is a list I threw together based off the OP/Bennie Smith's list:

4 Lotleth Troll
3 Gravecrawler
3 Vengevine
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Bloodghast
2 Squee
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Grisslebrand
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Rancor
1 Zombie Infestation
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Green Sacland
1 Dryad Arbor

1 Slyvan Safekeeper
3 Krosan Grips
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker
2 Extirpate


I have a B/G/u/r Necrotic Ooze Modern Deck that influenced the selection of some cards for this deck.

Differing from the OP in what I took out or reduced, Rootwalla is too small an impact; Fauna Shaman is way too slow and frail; Scryb and Tracker don't excite me; way too many GSZ; too much removal.

Things I added - Squee & Zombie Infestation, cause it's serious card advantage; Bloodghast, recurring threats are better than decent; Pernicious Deed, great sweeper, Troll regens, most threats three and under, misses Ooze & can bounce Nightmare; Rancor, recurring, makes threats better.

The SB is quickly tossed together, some grave hate is standard (maybe over done with 5 spots); I hate counterspells, so three spots for Vexing Shusher; Slyvan Safekeeper is a utility card for heavy pinpoint removal type decks and Krosan Grip, another fail safe.

A Golgari deck should have a fun name, the produce type items that I think are color representative:
Kale
Spinach
Avocado
Cucumber
Broccoli
Plum
Prickly Pear

Cheers,
Can't wait for my boxes to come in and pray for all the rares to be Lol Trolls! (and 2 RIP for another deck.)

[B4nnar]

Grisly Salvage into Unearth anyone? Might be better than fauna shaman here. 1CC goyf/ooze/LOL troll. Unearth -> Eternal Witness works also very nicely. Salvage can also help you dig for VVs and supplies for Deathrite Shaman. Squee says hi. GC doesn't care to be either in your hand or yard.

With this one, Lol troll can discard practically everything in deck without worries.

[Vacrix]

Unearth is an interesting idea. I think that some of the current lists are a bit too graveyard centric. Granted its graveyard centric but with cards like Carrion Feeder, even if they remove your yard, you still have a big dude. Same with Troll. So its a deck that beats hard but it holds its own even when you encounter a lot of graveyard hate. Good thing Reanimator is getting seriously hated out right now. Same with Dredge. People will probably stop playing as much graveyard hate. However... more Carrion Feeders maindeck. I think 3 is a good number. Its way too good with Gravecrawler and helps your recursion guys dodge Swords so they have to target the Feeder first.


@Hanni
Yeah Rancor seems like it could be cool. Not necessarily in this list though I agree. With stuff like Fauna Shaman the deck seems like once its gets closer to optimized its gonna be really tight for space if you want a solid Shaman toolbox.

Rancor isn't really played anymore because equipment are usually better and you can't really 2 for 1 Jitte, though you can make them waste a turn by equipping by removing the creature in response. Still, its an equipment in the sense it keeps coming back but its always vulnerable to countermagic when you're 'equipping' it and there's always the opponents 2 for 1 option if they have the removal spell. Then again look at the creatures you have most incentive to equip:
Carrion Feeder when its huge can't be bolted.
Troll can regenerate.
Gravecrawler just makes it a 1 for 1 due to recursion.
Vengevine can recur as well.
Bloodghast as well (if its going to get played)
Ooze could be big enough to dodge removal.


Of course that doesn't apply to the Wx decks because they play STP.

I'm thinking Rancor might not be necessary since this deck is probably going to be really good against decks that use burn as their kill/reach.

[thecheese]

Timmycolossus and I have been working on something similar to this, our list is a little different though.

Eva Mendes

Lands - 20
4 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest

Creatures - 26
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gravecrawler
3 Vengevine
2 Wild Mongrel
2 Scavenging Ooze

Artifacts -2
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Other Spells - 12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard is in progress, but Big Game Hunter is definitely part of it.

Done some preliminary playtesting of this list (yes i like yours better) and I reckon two lillana's would be great, gonna have a look at how to fit them in. Also 3-4 wastelands because they combo up with the deathrite shaman and improve it's control matchup.

[thecheese]

@thecheese
Bennie's list anyone? (https://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=49525) >.<
At least post the link (although you may not if you're author of linked article).

There are tons of B/G/X (X may be 0) decks involving VV/Zombies/Madness.
Meaby instead of creating new one every week, just concentrate and create one topic for deck and it's variations.

Grisly salvage is nice, although deck requires maxing creature part for it to be effective. Fauna Shaman is nice, and while slow, if she surivives at least 2 turns she already paid more for herself than enough. 2 of. Remember that Bob requires at least turn to do something usefull aswell and without sensei topdecking VV isn't your goal.

I came up with idea separately but yeah it was this list, new to these forums should of credited the author.

[B4nnar]

I have been testing two versions:

3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Vengevine

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Buried Alive
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Unearth

4 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Numbers can be tweaked but you get the point: deck relies on BA/Grisly to mill cards into yard and to it's shenanigans.

The second one was must faster:

3 Carrion Feeder
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
3 Lotleth Troll
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Vengevine

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Unearth
3 Grisly Salvage
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Dark Ritual
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Tragic Slip

4 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

The feeder -> gc -> ritual combo is nuts.

In both I'm considering increasing the creature amount.
One thing: wasteland isn't a good idea to be 4'of in this deck. There are nearly 0 cards with colorless mana requirement so drawing it in opening hand without at least two other lands slows you a lot.
Unearth - wtf is the price of this card, soon everyone will notice that best creatures cost X<=3 and even in not yard oriented deck it can counter creature hate and out tempo your opponent.

[thecheese]

// Deck: BG vengvine no box (60)

// Lands
4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

// Creatures
4 Basking Rootwalla
2 Carrion Feeder
4 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Vengevine
2 Wild Mongrel

// Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Big Game Hunter
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte

This is my new revised build will get report back after playtesting it.

[kirkusjones]

Since we're in black, do we run extirpate over surgical in the board? Or does split second not matter that much?

[lavafrogg]

Why does bloodghast not make the cut over basking rootwalla? The synergy with troll and grave-crawler is stronger than the ability to sometimes play a free 1/1(3/3).

Also- Eternal Witness turns on all vengevines in graveyards if you have 4 mana available and a 1 drop in the yard, for what it is worth.

How are the non-salvage decklists running? It is only the card that is making this deck viable, turn two salvage binning some vengevines and grabbing the 2nd creature to recur them? Win.

It sucks that necrotic ooze is a 4 drop... might even be worth running reanimates for an ooze interaction...thinking...

[B4nnar]

Your list misses the point of deck and it's mixed everything with no real purpose.

1) Not enough blue for FoW.
2) 1 LftL can't be an engine for whole deck.
3) No tutors (2 intuitions is a joke) / Low (really low) yard milling
4) Just 13 creatures with 2 being snapy? And you want to discard him or what?
5) How your deck triggers VV? I guess it does not.

Your deck goes more towards BUG Delver/BUG Aggro, although mongoose/goyf/delver/snapy is the creature base there since they do not require deck to have anything linking them up.

You can not mix creature shell that requires deck to be built around those with some kind of RUG shell with discard outlet.

[kirkusjones]

I've been testing grisly salvage over wild mongrel, seems good so far.

The reason I'm not running bloodghast is because I'm trying to minimize the interaction with my graveyard. I know that seems weird to say when I'm running Vengevine and Gravecrawler, but they're too good not to include. I feel like if I was going to play an all-in graveyard deck, I'd just play dredge.

Unearth definitely deserves a look too. Maybe we build something sort of transformational from super aggro game 1 to more mid-rangey game 2.

[kirkusjones]

Took the deck to a small tournament last night, went 3-1. I have to say, Unearth is an absolute beast. One of my opponents couldn't believe how good the card was. I think I'm going to try a more aggro version of the deck with carrion feeder and a full set of Grisly Salvage and Unearth.

[1maarten1]

Took the deck to a small tournament last night, went 3-1. I have to say, Unearth is an absolute beast. One of my opponents couldn't believe how good the card was. I think I'm going to try a more aggro version of the deck with carrion feeder and a full set of Grisly Salvage and Unearth.

Mind posting your list? Unearth does look really strong yea!

[kirkusjones]

Lands - 19
4 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest

Creatures - 23
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gravecrawler
3 Vengevine
2 Scavenging Ooze

Artifacts -2
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Other Spells - 16
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Unearth
2 Grisly Salvage

[bowvamp]

Haakon + Nameless Inversion anybody?

[thecheese]

Lands - 19
4 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest

Creatures - 23
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gravecrawler

3 Vengevine
2 Scavenging Ooze

Artifacts -2
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Other Spells - 16
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Unearth
2 Grisly Salvage

I like this list two things I think it's missing through putrid imp and buried alive.


imp

[thecheese]

Although running buried alive considering your mana base may be problematic. Also to be considered dark ritual, liliana of the veil entomb all good options imo. What are you considering sideboard wise big game hunter?

[kirkusjones]

Imp might be worth a test, but I think I'd rather use Carrion Feeder instead. As for buried alive, dark ritual and entomb, I'm not as sure. Liliana is good, but too slow. She was in the main deck orginally, but I felt like I always wanted Cabal Therapy instead. Remember you can always therapy yourself to get stuff out of your hand. The board right now is still a work in progress, though we're thinking maelstrom pulse and surgical extraction along with dread of night

[ahg113]

Would it be worthwhile to splash red in this deck, for the specific cards of Squee, Goblin Nabob, Goblin Bombardment, Anger, and possibly Faithless Looting? Not to stray too far into the R/B deck of similar feel. But I think it could give this deck a bit more reach, especially Squee with Therapies and Lol troll.

Also shaved a fetch land, the high casting cost is two, three for a zenith, so 18 felt ok. And I shaved two GSZ. Jitte is a bomb piece of equipment, I'm just not sold on it in a deck like this where it can't be protected, nor the critter holding it. Entomb as the proper tutor card this deck is missing. Whether or not you want haste, put that vengevine in the yard to swing this turn, or to accelerate having Squee pitchable to troll.

Splashing red allows for sideboard options like pyro/fire blast, Lightning Bolt, Sulfuric Vortex, etc.

Modifying Kirk's list:

Lands - 18
3 Bayou
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
2 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa

Creatures - 25
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gravecrawler
3 Vengevine
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Anger
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Enchantments - 2
2 Goblin Bombardment

Other Spells - 15
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Unearth
2 Entomb
2 Faithless Looting or Grisly Salvage

Cheers,
Maybe new tech, put Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded in the SB, because no one would see that coming.

[kwis]

Carrion feeder might be valuable because of how he combines with gravecrawler.

[ChokeSeemsGood]

So i have been playing a deck similar to this and with some Sam Black Zombie Bombardment in the mix, i had been waiting for the troll to see how it did and i have played the last 2 weeks in my local legacy tournament and only lost 2 games playing 4 rounds both weeks and a top 8.

4 lotleth troll
4 carrion feeder
4 gravecrawler
4 bloodghast
4 vengevine
3 basking rootwalla
1 anger

4 faithless looting
3 cabal therapy
2 grisly salvage
3 entomb
3 goblin bombardment
1 bridge from below

4 bayou
4 badlands
3 swamp
3 bloodstained mire
4 verdant catacombs
2 cavern of souls

SB
3 ground seal
3 ancient grudge
3 abrupt decay
3 pithing needle
3 krosan grip


side board is a toss up except i believe the ground seal and ancient grudges are a must to protect from opposing graveyard hate. the biggest problem has been ooze and extripate/sugical which seal stops both. relic and tormods are annoying but usually just requires the loss of one gravecrawler/bloodghast. goblin bombardment/carrion feeder are almost required in this deck or some sort of permanent sac outlet. i have been having alot of fun with this deck and have switched out some things. here are some other possible cards i have played/thought of playing

filth paired with urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
buried alive
caller of the claw - singleton
zombie infestation

let me know what you think

[troopatroop]

Deathrite Shaman isn't as good as you think it is. Vengevine should be a 4of. That is all.

[kirkusjones]

Deathrite Shaman isn't as good as you think it is. Vengevine should be a 4of. That is all.

You're right, he's better! All kidding aside, this deck is fun to play and is a beating for control. I played it today at the Jupiter Games dual for the duals and went 1-3 drop. beat bug control, lost to manaless dredge, merfolk and sneak and show. Most games where I boarded in hate I never saw it, and honestly, I needed more practice with the list before I took it to a big event, but I had a great time and seeing people's reaction to vengevine was priceless. Deathrite shaman was a house, as were carrion feeder and gravecrawler. I think the deck needs another color and while white is tempting, I think I'd just end up building Junk. Red is the way to go, and bloodbraid elf might be worth a look in a non-zombardment version. I want to build both and see how they fair.

The list:

Lands
4 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest

Creatures
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
3 Vengevine
3 Carrion Feeder
2 Scavenging Ooze

Other Spells
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard
4 Big Game Hunter
4 Dread of Night
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Choke
1 Maelstrom Pulse

[sclabman]

"This deck is awesome! I just lost against every noteworthy deck I played it against!"

[kirkusjones]

"This deck is awesome! I just lost against every noteworthy deck I played it against!"

Never said it was awesome, just fun to play. It definitely needs work, hence the brainstorming about adding a color.

[thecheese]

// Lands
4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

// Creatures
3 Basking Rootwalla
1 Carrion Feeder
3 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gravecrawler
3 Lotleth Troll
4 Putrid Imp
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Vengevine

// Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Grisly Salvage
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Unearth

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Big Game Hunter
SB: 3 Bloodghast
SB: 4 Buried Alive
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil

this the list I'm looking at running at local tourney looking at alternative strats through sb.

[kirkusjones]

@the cheese I would honestly suggest more carrion feeders over rootwalla. rootwalla has that nice interaction with troll, but feeder works really well with crawler and can get much bigger.

[timmycolossus]

Hey guys here the list I am working on testing right now:

4x deathrite shaman
4x carrrion feeder
4x gravecrawler
4x bloodghast
4x lotleth troll
4x scavening ooze
4x vengevine

4x cabal therapy
4x abrupt decay
2x sylvan library
2x umezawa's jitte

4x bayou
3x swamp
3x forest
3x marsh flats
3x wooded foothills
4x verdant catacombs

SB
4x big game hunter
4x thought seize
4x golgari charm
3x pernicious deed


Try the list before you guys say anything?

[alderon666]

I kinda feel that this deck needs Faithless Looting badly. IMO it's the second best discard outlet, and you can really take advantage of it with Basking Rootwalla, Gravecrawler, Bloodghast and Vengevine.

Maybe something to make your creatures bigger? Rancor could work, 4/1 trample is respectable, 6/3 haste trample is huge...

The real problem is how you're playing against graveyard hate on game 2/3? More discard? Abrupt Decay is very versatile against permenent-based hate, but you're still very open to Surgical/Extirpate...

[ahg113]

The real problem is how you're playing against graveyard hate on game 2/3? More discard? Abrupt Decay is very versatile against permenent-based hate, but you're still very open to Surgical/Extirpate...

The card we want to nullify targeted removal is Ground Seal, the fact that it's a cantrip is gravy, and it's cheap casting cost is just bonus. +1 for Abrupt Decay killing artifacts (and other cheap threats).

Using it in a janky fun deck that uses Ooze, and it's great. Drops early and shuts down some of their own plays too, like Snappy. Although, it is a serious non-bo with Deathrite so.... prolly back to the drawing board...

[FTW]

I've been playing around with this list independently. Wild Mongrel is weak, and maybe that slot should be GSZ or Fauna, but I find both of them too slow. Mongrel still enables T2 Vengevines. It's often just a Grizzly Bear, but I can't think of a better discard outlet to run (Putrid Imp/Oona's Prowler?). I suppose Imp enables even more T2 Vengevines...

33 creatures:
3 Deathrite Shaman <--- Amazing card, though I tend to use it more lategame than early. Maybe 4 is correct.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Mongrel/Putrid Imp? <-- problem with PImp is too much 1cc and getting wrecked by Chalice/Counterbalance
3 Bloodghast <-- more free guys! I want to max out on GY degeneracy in game 1
4 Vengevine <--- I really like this number. This card is really how you threaten to steal game 1s pre-hate, so I want to max out on copies of it, ways to recur it (lots of 1cc and 2cc) and discard outlets (8)

8 spells:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay

19 lands:
2 Scrubland
4 Bayou
8 fetches
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Forest
2 Swamp

15 sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant <-- transformational. board out GY stuff for this in game 2/3
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben <-- couldn't find satisfactory anti-storm in G/B, and this also helps vs U/W Miracles, RUG, etc..
3 Cabal Therapy <-- chose not to put in main in favor of all-in aggro to steal game 1
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Seal of Primordium <-- this card is bad, but I also don't want Nature's Claim bc this is an aggro deck and 4 life sucks. this also kills Chalice @ 1, sometimes Counterbalance, Rest in Peace, random stuff, and pumps Goyf, so I prefer it to Naturalize or Golgari Charm.

I find Wild Mongrel leaves me wanting more each time, so I should probably try PImp out. I see some of you are running it. Is Fauna any good? Seems slow and mana-hungry.

I tried testing Buried Alive in here as a 2/3-of. T1 Deathrite, T2 Buried Alive into triple Vengevine seems pretty hawt, but the deck rarely actually curved out like that. Buried Alive more often came down on turn 3, and it was a choice between casting gas on turn 3 or tapping out to do nothing and letting the opponent stabilize. Buried Alive was usually the WRONG play. Once I went T2 Troll, T3 pause. Discard Vengevine. Hmm.. Get greedy and cast Buried Alive instead of 2 dorks. 4 Vengevines in yard. Attack with troll for only 3. EOT opponent Enlightened Tutors for Rest in Peace (in game 1!!!) and I facepalm. He drops Rest in Peace, soon StPs the Troll, and I lose a game 1 I should have ran away with.

[uncletiggy]

Sitting on this list

Creatures: 28
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Putrid Imp
3 Carrion Feeder
3 Gravecrawler
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengevine
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Spells: 12
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Entomb
3 Grisly Salvage
1 Bridge from Below
1 Buried Alive

Lands: 20
4 Bayou
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Volrath's Stronghold

SB:
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Snuff Out
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Virtue's Ruin
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 ?

Been testing with LftL in the ? spot but it hasn't justified it's spot any suggestions, the 4 slot NO package steals a lot of games and is well worth exploring for those who haven't.

To anyone playing jund lists foucusing more on sac outlets and mana hungry gravecrawler interactions veteran explorer sticks out to me as win especially in lists with unearth, but just a thought?

[thecheese]

// Deck: BG vengvine no box (61)

// Lands
4 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland

// Creatures
2 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
3 Lotleth Troll
4 Putrid Imp
1 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine

// Spells
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Darkblast
4 Entomb
2 Grisly Salvage
1 Life from the Loam
1 Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 Ghastly Demise
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
I've played this deck in a couple local tourney's and it is performing well, had strong match-up vs combo providing effective disruption as well as a fast clock. aggro strategies tend to be close match-ups, the deck outs equipped with an effective clock as well as disruption maindeck and in sideboard. limited testing has been done vs control matchups. the deck gains a lot of strength from Rangoon being used as a toolbox tutor for answers to threats (e.g through dredge cards)as well as securing the vengevine gravecrawler .