What to name with Meddling Mage

[somethingdotdotdot]

So I was considering meddling mage for a board and I was wondering what I could name versus various decks and in what order. Off the top of my head:

Omniscience: show and tell, then burning wish.
Doomsday: doomsday, then SDT
Miracles: (not sure if I should board this in) SDT, Terminus, Entreat

For storm, I think it might be better to name the tutors rather than the win-cons, since they could always go for a different win condition. So I was thinking name: burning wish, infernal tutor, ad nauseum. However, I'm not sure of this and would like your opinions. Furthermore, I was wondering if there were any other decks that it would be useful against.

[Raystar]

I may be completely off target but I think that in Omniscience it would be better to go for Burning Wish first and hit S&T second: you reduce the threat count to 3 and by being on UW you should be able to put together enough counterspells to deal with the remaining S&T.

The only issue is that by being a post-board game you will also have to face some concentration of bounce that would hit your mage and may change the strategy depending from what they bring in.

[Tempus]

Omniscience: Def BW first...
Doomsday: Depending on the list and board state: SDT, LED/DR, BW
Miracles: You probably don't need it and I'd go for SDT, Jace and Entreat the Angels first

Against ANT: IT/BW, against TES probably Tendrils/Empty as they have too many cards you don't want them to play and with that they have to burn a BW for the removal...

[catmint]

It depends of course what else you have in hand/deck and the game state, but as a general rule of thumb against the combo variants my thoughts are:

1) I would name: Show&Tell vs. Omniscience.
They still have 3 S&T maindeck, 1 Personal Tutor and 10-12 cantrips - looks pretty stupid if they just cast on with Mage on Burning wish. If you force them to burning wish for removal first, they still need to use the maindeck S&T or they need multiple burning wish. Anyway you gain a lot of time to win or find additional disruption.

2) Depending on the Doomsday built I can see Burning wish beeing the best target. Some Doomsday builds do not run a win-condition main & their answers to a hatebear also usually wished for. If they know you have a hatebear and can just stack a removal in their doomsday pile or run an Emrakul/lab maniac build, I would just name Doomsday.

3) Against Miracles that totally depends on what your own strategy is, so no generic statement makes sense.

4) Against TES, ANT variants it is very tricky since they can go a lot of different routes. You just have to understand the game state and make an educated guess/choice. If you really have no relevant parameters like (their life total -> no ad nauseam, access to mass removal/batterskull -> answer to Empty the Warrens, their land count), I would in general tend to name LED, since not having LED mana usually disrupts all of their winning routes. But there are surely some experienced storm players who can help.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Against Omniscience, you definitely want to name S&T first. It makes their BWishes into non-threats anyway and as you're tapping out on turn 2, you're giving them the perfect opening to cast their natural S&T at this point. Doesn't seem like you'd want to expose yourself to that.

Against DDay you probably want to name Doomsday just because the most common build has a Chain of Vapor MD to stack in the pile, meaning their wincon will answer Mage on just about anything you call that isn't DDay without much trouble.

Against almost everything else, there is no clear cut answer to your question. It all depends on your hand and the gamestate when you're casting MMage.

[ReinVos]

Against ANT with Burning Wish I'd name Burning Wish. The reason for this is that you cut him down on gascards, and have MM Insurance at the same time. Any second resolved Mage (or other permanent-based hate) means trouble since he won't be able to answer it. Shouldn't name Tendrils here unless you have an answer to ETW in hand.

Against UBr or UBw lists without Wishes I'd just name Tendrils and protect him him as best as I can. Game one this is an easy call since few lists actually have an answer to it game one. Post board it gets harder but since Tendrils is their only win card and they have multiple mana sources and tutors, it's best to force him to find an answer than pray he doesn't have the other cards and just ignores your Mage.

Against TES I don't really know. I guess also Burning Wish..?

[thefreakaccident]

Meddling mage is NOT a sideboard card, it is a mainboard card that carries equipmet, as postboard he will get bounced/REB'd every time. You either know what the decks in your meta/format are, or you play thoughtseize/duress/inquizition in your disruption suite to always know what to name.

[death]

The problem is, most of the time when you resolve the Mage, you'll have to name Swords, Bolt or Ghastly Demise otherwise he winds up dead and all your efforts at stopping a key spell go for naught. This is partly why MM rarely sees play and because Counterbalance does a better job.


Omniscience dotdotdot

You need 5 Meddling Magi to name: Show and Tell, Burning Wish, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, and lastly Pyroclasm in order to completely stop the deck.

[somethingdotdotdot]

@death, he's a hate bear--if they have answers, then hes gone. He's only there to slow down the opponent enough for you to get 20 dmg in. Sure the other player can bounce him or otherwise remove him, but that's true of any hate-bear without mom protection.

As for show and tell versus burning wish--show and tell is always the correct first name. I know that much. First of all, it requires them to have at least 3 pieces to go off (assuming non-rector version): burning wish, snt and a fatty/omniscience. They need to sandbag their burning wish to get rid of the meddling mage, which will often take about 2 turns.

[Hanni]

@death, he's a hate bear--if they have answers, then hes gone. He's only there to slow down the opponent enough for you to get 20 dmg in. Sure the other player can bounce him or otherwise remove him, but that's true of any hate-bear without mom protection.


Mmmm... Meddling Mage, Mother of Runes... and Dark Confidant? I smell a brew, comin on :wink:

[thefreakaccident]

The return of good ol' Hanni fish lol, why not? It was good in the flash days, could be good in the show and tell days... Got better with stoneforge anyways.

@Death-- All your points become moot if it is game one that the show and tell player is dealing with mage.

And I didn't know control decks destroyed creatures, thanks for enlightening me.

[Hanni]

The return of good ol' Hanni fish lol, why not? It was good in the flash days, could be good in the show and tell days... Got better with stoneforge anyways.


Yea... until Goyf stole the thunder, and Merfolk took the name.

That deck does still exist though, it's just called Esperblade. But it doesn't run Meddling Mage. Although the lists these days eschew Mother of Runes and Dark Confidant for Jace and Lingering Souls, I still think the "tempo" version with Mom, Confidant, SFM, whatever else, Daze, and Wasteland is still a pretty solid deck.

Meddling Mage doesn't actually seem that bad right now. It doesn't hit Force of Will and Jace like Gaddock Teeg does against Miracles, bu it can hit Terminus, with extra copies hitting whatever else. Gaddock Teeg doesn't do much to Show and Tell right now, so I could see a slight comeback for it... but I'm still not sure that it's maindeck material.

[death]

@somethingdotdot
I was replying to thefreakaccident

@thefreakaccident
never faced a Meddling Mage game one since Show and Tell was still a 2.50 card. This could change though as you claim he is maindeck material

[ReinVos]

Yeah, I see Meddling Mage being good too. There's a good card to name against every combo deck. Against control you name their removal (as said ealier) and apply pressure (could be good against Miracles. If you name Terminus and land another creature, they will need two removal spells to kill your two guys so whether they get rid of the Mage naming Terminus or not, you will have diminished it's value already). It's a bit useless against aggro decks but equipments (and SFM) can shore up this weakness very well, especially since SFM is good against aggro in general. Against Maverick you can name Green Sun's Zenith as it takes away a lot of redundancy and utility.

Yeah, I can see a fish deck with Meddling Mage being pretty good too. You just need to find a way to be able to beat RUG Delver.

[Kich867]

Yea... until Goyf stole the thunder, and Merfolk took the name.

That deck does still exist though, it's just called Esperblade. But it doesn't run Meddling Mage. Although the lists these days eschew Mother of Runes and Dark Confidant for Jace and Lingering Souls, I still think the "tempo" version with Mom, Confidant, SFM, whatever else, Daze, and Wasteland is still a pretty solid deck.

Meddling Mage doesn't actually seem that bad right now. It doesn't hit Force of Will and Jace like Gaddock Teeg does against Miracles, bu it can hit Terminus, with extra copies hitting whatever else. Gaddock Teeg doesn't do much to Show and Tell right now, so I could see a slight comeback for it... but I'm still not sure that it's maindeck material.

Of course Meddling Mage doesn't seem bad, it has Awesome.

I've tinkered with esper hatebear deck lists every so often. It never looks bad, I'm just more of a jund player..