[Deck] 12 Post

[k_omega]

Maybe I'm just drunk, but is anybody else considering Scour from Existinece? I don't play Karn because paying 7 for spot removal seems inferior when you can wipe the board for the asme price. But at instant speed in monogreen? Maybe? I don't know. What is everyone else thinking?
I'm definitely going to try it. There's something to be said for EOT kill spell to bait counters before going for a real threat, though I don't see single-card threats as being the main problem for us right now. Also notable that Counterbalance effectively can't stop it.



Stepping away from that though, I can't ever beat a Monastery Mentor on turn 3. Engineered Explosives does work against him, but it never feels like enough. Is there other stuff I can be doing to deal with this guy? How do people feel about builds with MB Meddling Mages?

I've been thinking about a GB build with Illness in the Ranks/Virulent Plague to permanently shut down Mentor, Pyromancer, Thopter-Sword, and Empty the Warrens. Haven't thought much about what else to use with black though. Beseech the Queen? It finds everything Trinket Mage could but also lands and occasionally bigger stuff.

[Mockingbird]

Can we make Sire of Stagnation work?

http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/sireofstagnation.html

My initial instinct is no because cards generally aren't that good when they rely on opponents to go right, but that is a tempting effect.

[mykatdied]

I've been thinking about a GB build with Illness in the Ranks/Virulent Plague to permanently shut down Mentor, Pyromancer, Thopter-Sword, and Empty the Warrens. Haven't thought much about what else to use with black though. Beseech the Queen? It finds everything Trinket Mage could but also lands and occasionally bigger stuff.

I tested a BG build for a brief period of time. I found that pernicious deed hit anything and everything that ever hit the board. Hitting my own pithing needles was rather sketchy though. It certainly gives us some great options for sweeper effects and discard spells. Not sure how great it is though. Illness definitely seems good for the matches with mentor handle monk tokens. You do always have a bog that you can tutor in order to cast it. So it probably isn't terrible if you had to throw a bayou or Usea in order to cast it.

[into_play]

Oh! They are still posting these! Here (http://www.twitch.tv/themeadery/v/15281665) you can watch me stomp Miracles at 27:50 and get wrecked by Alluren at 2:08:00.

Hello! I watched your games and I was very entertained. I wanted to ask how many Krosan Grips you run, since it seems like the best answer to Aluren if it's showing up a lot where you play. I currently play four copies in the sideboard since I'm convinced it's the only truly reliable way to defeat Omnitell (to a lesser extent Wipe Away is as well). At first I was very irked to have to include four copies, but the more I think about it, the Grips give us a lot of solid answers to random junk in Legacy as well as previously very difficult matchups like the aforementioned Aluren, MUD, Food Chain when it was a thing, etc. They are also great answers to scary things like Blood Moon Back to Basics (I got beat by this in Merfolk, a deck making a comeback as of late) and as a bonus they further wreck Miracles, as Tim said earlier. Split second has now become so relevant; I would consider maxing out this card.


I know personally I've played Force a lot, while the card is very good we don't exactly generate the card advantage necessary to turn it into a real threat. Having it isn't even a guarantee we can make it through a game against storm or omnitell, so it isn't super duper thrilling. There are metagames where it is an incredible snap in, but I'm not so sure right now. Making our mainboard really like in order to support a card that doesn't feel very dependable doesn't make me feel very good. In your list, maybe you want to go -1 ponder +1 DTT? I feel like Trickbind effectively does a lot of what we want out of Force of Will sans hitting a Blood Moon or Ruination on the stack. Though personally I have gone -1 Trickbind +1 Needle in the main, but that's because I seriously <3 Needle and keep losing to Alluren

I used to be a nonbeliever in running Force in this deck, but once I first tried them in the sideboard, I never looked back. They really shine in the combo matchups that don't have countermagic of their own, namely Storm and Elves. The latter shows up often at my local meta, and having them to stop a Glimpse/GSZ/Natural Order is the only way I feel like I have a fighting chance. Storm requires more setup including Top and having a counter on top of the deck, but once you have that down, the matchup is very winnable, much more so than Elves. I looked up some of your lists on tcdecks and saw that you've been stomping for a while with this deck (very nice!) but I noticed your recent lists have three Tops instead of four. Do you consider four to be too many? I think it is one of the most powerful cards in our deck in almost any matchup, not the least of which is when you need to hide counters. The discard defense alone is a reason you always want to see at least one. Also, I love Needle as well!

About Mentor, I've never really had trouble dealing with him. Repeal is one of the cards I still run that I like to use against him. I know the masses have rendered Repeal obsolete, but situations like these will make you wish you hadn't abandoned it. The Mentor's three casting cost is pretty expensive for the decks wanting to cast him, so they will usually spend their entire turn just casting him. Having Repeal at the ready effectively Time Walks them, just like the old days when you would do so to a Confidant or a Goyf. One thing that I always liked about Repeal compared to Wipe Away was its ability to be countered. Many times I would play a Repeal in order to bait out a counterspell. If they countered it, then a truly backbreaking spell like Show and Tell or Primeval Titan was much more likely to resolve. And if you're running four Show and Tells like you should (Rock's list did, the eternal weekend list did, top lists usually do), then you should have no shortage of powerful spells to follow up with. At least your Wipe Away can hold him off for a turn, and Trickbind can mitigate the token making. Fight power with power and just go over the top of those monks!

Ditching Tabernacle seems like a bad idea now with Grixis Pyromancer everywhere. One sideboard slot seems like a small price to pay for a powerful land that we can easily access.

Good luck and I hope you get featured on many more matches! I like watching this deck in action whenever possible!

[into_play]

Is running KoTR an obsolete plan?

I didn't know it was ever played together with the locus lands. I think the color commitment would be too high, plus we don't want to be relying on creatures too early in the game and turn on our opponent's creature removal.

[TheBoozeCube]

Re: Beating Monastery Mentor

Tabernacle does a lot of work here. More than I even expected. I don't know if it's still up on the Meadery Twitch archives I linked to a few days ago, but the finals of the tournament I won last weekend show me curb stomping Monastery Mentor in 2. Tabernacle played a big part by tying up my opponent's mana and keeping the game manageable until I could wipe the board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TimHarding]

Tabernacle does a whole lot of work against mentor indeed. Otherwise, I say bring back O-Stone. Or Elephant Grass!

Against 4c Pyromancer and Elves I've been trying Silent Arbiter. It's out of bolt range. Against Mentor it's more vulnerable to swords but nonetheless an obstacle. Not enough data so far but it looks respectable. Searchable with eye too.

[maCHOOga]

Re: Beating Monastery Mentor

Tabernacle does a lot of work here. More than I even expected. I don't know if it's still up on the Meadery Twitch archives I linked to a few days ago, but the finals of the tournament I won last weekend show me curb stomping Monastery Mentor in 2. Tabernacle played a big part by tying up my opponent's mana and keeping the game manageable until I could wipe the board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Terminus solves that problem too.

Those decks don't play Teeg, so it should send all the monks back to their respective dojo.

[TimHarding]

Terminus solves that problem too.

Those decks don't play Teeg, so it should send all the monks back to their respective dojo.

Lol ^^

And yeah w two problems being swarm and omni, the white slash is looking better and better: Terminus, Mage, Cannonist, Teeg...

[Ponders]

Spoiled:
Bane of Bala Ged.
Annihilator 2, to exile.
CMC 7, making it a 1 mana improvement over Artisan of Kozilek or Ulamogs Crusher.

[Mockingbird]

Spoiled:
Bane of Bala Ged.
Annihilator 2, to exile.
CMC 7, making it a 1 mana improvement over Artisan of Kozilek or Ulamogs Crusher.

For Visual reference (http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/bane-of-bala-ged/).

I just saw that too. The issue I have with it is that I don't play Eldrazi for their annihilators... well, I do, but it's not as high on the list as some make out. Cast triggers is what I look at when considering Eldrazi. And as an aside, I do miss the grave triggers. I had good looping Kozilek with eye (I forget why I had to do that instead of curbstomping with Emrakul, but the memory is there). For 7 mana, it looks like something to test... watch out for all the hate out there.

[Ponders]

I wanted to make a note that modern tron, is somewhat a similar type deck. Before BFZ rotates in, a typical list runs
12 threats (6 creatures, 6 planes-walkers)
20 lands
4 sweepers O stone + 4 pyroclasm
12 tutors sylvan, map, stirrings
8 chromatic sphere

I realize modern is a different, slower format and post probably relies more on colored mana, but couldn't a similar calculus work?

4 titan
emrakul
koz
ula
ula II
ugin


4 Cloud
4 Glimmer
4 Vesuva
Eye
karakas
bog
tabernacle
6 forest

4 ostone
2 all is dust

4 map
4 stirring
4 sylvan scry

3 pithing needle
3 candel
3 crop

Seems closest to the booze-list. Biggest difference being 8 fewer lands in exchange for tutors. To me it seems the Murata list was always very top deck strong, and most of my latest tries have devolved away from that. I've been thinking for awhile that post is threat-lite. 7 creatures just not being enough. I'd like to see the new Ulamog in this mix anyway.

[mykatdied]

I wanted to make a note that modern tron, is somewhat a similar type deck. Before BFZ rotates in, a typical list runs
12 threats (6 creatures, 6 planes-walkers)
20 lands
4 sweepers O stone + 4 pyroclasm
12 tutors sylvan, map, stirrings
8 chromatic sphere

I realize modern is a different, slower format and post probably relies more on colored mana, but couldn't a similar calculus work?

4 titan
emrakul
koz
ula
ula II
ugin


4 Cloud
4 Glimmer
4 Vesuva
Eye
karakas
bog
tabernacle
6 forest

4 ostone
2 all is dust

4 map
4 stirring
4 sylvan scry

3 pithing needle
3 candel
3 crop

Seems closest to the booze-list. Biggest difference being 8 fewer lands in exchange for tutors. To me it seems the Murata list was always very top deck strong, and most of my latest tries have devolved away from that. I've been thinking for awhile that post is threat-lite. 7 creatures just not being enough. I'd like to see the new Ulamog in this mix anyway.

The nice part about being a tad bit land heavy is because we have crop rotation which kills off a land to find our utility lands or our post lands and put them directly into play. If it gets countered we are behind a land drop now. Having more lands increases the chances that we don't just lose as a result. Mana can be tight as is because of our utility lands that don't produce mana. Having the extra search would be nice, though we don't want to be overly reliant on it and get blown out in an aggressive game because our mana is tied up in searching for more land. Tron also gets away with it because they 8 eggs which help them cycle through their deck to find the land they need and the threats to cast with that land. Tron also doesn't have wasteland to worry about.

[Rock Lee]

Top 8'd the Black Lotus event with 100+ yesterday. Succumbing to Rich Shay's Grixis list while my deck faltered hard (two mulls, sub-par draws, zero relics), which counts my first game and match losses against Grixis once running heavy Relic's. Here's my list:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere

Matchups were grixisx2, omni (Loss), W/R bloodmoon, Belcherx2, Burn (ID).

[Ponders]

The nice part about being a tad bit land heavy is because we have crop rotation which kills off a land to find our utility lands or our post lands and put them directly into play. If it gets countered we are behind a land drop now. Having more lands increases the chances that we don't just lose as a result. Mana can be tight as is because of our utility lands that don't produce mana. Having the extra search would be nice, though we don't want to be overly reliant on it and get blown out in an aggressive game because our mana is tied up in searching for more land. Tron also gets away with it because they 8 eggs which help them cycle through their deck to find the land they need and the threats to cast with that land. Tron also doesn't have wasteland to worry about.

There is ghost quarter. I'm not sure having extra lands prevents the auto-lose when most matches are over within 4 turns anyway.

[TheBoozeCube]

I wanted to make a note that modern tron, is somewhat a similar type deck. Before BFZ rotates in, a typical list runs
12 threats (6 creatures, 6 planes-walkers)
20 lands
4 sweepers O stone + 4 pyroclasm
12 tutors sylvan, map, stirrings
8 chromatic sphere

I realize modern is a different, slower format and post probably relies more on colored mana, but couldn't a similar calculus work?

4 titan
emrakul
koz
ula
ula II
ugin


4 Cloud
4 Glimmer
4 Vesuva
Eye
karakas
bog
tabernacle
6 forest

4 ostone
2 all is dust

4 map
4 stirring
4 sylvan scry

3 pithing needle
3 candel
3 crop

Seems closest to the booze-list. Biggest difference being 8 fewer lands in exchange for tutors. To me it seems the Murata list was always very top deck strong, and most of my latest tries have devolved away from that. I've been thinking for awhile that post is threat-lite. 7 creatures just not being enough. I'd like to see the new Ulamog in this mix anyway.

The biggest difficulty I see is that you're trying to play 4x Primeval Titan in this list. One of the reasons that I've stayed away from Titan is that I simply couldn't reliably support 4GG, especially in the early game. While my build is nominally monogreen, the green is really more of a splash -- primarily for Ancient Stirrings and Crop Rotation. I rarely want to play more than one Forest unless truly necessary, frequently keep all-colorless hands, and regularly Crop Rotation away my only green source. Even with the full 4x Candelabras that I run, I've found that Titan was stranded in my hand far more often than I was comfortable with -- and that's even with a higher Forest count than you have here.

As far as Sylvan Scrying goes, it is definitely a powerful card. I've run it myself from time to time, and I regularly consider swapping out my SDTs for Sylvan Scrying. That said, it can also be slow. And you'll need more green sources for it to be consistent.

Personally, I think that being threat-light is one of the major benefits of playing Post. With the ability to easily tutor for your threats via Eye of Ugin (or dig deep with Ancient Stirrings), you can get away with devoting a minimum number of slots to just a few extremely high-impact and resilient threats, which leaves you a lot of room for toolbox cards, removal, and card selection with which to find them.

[Ponders]

The biggest difficulty I see is that you're trying to play 4x Primeval Titan in this list. One of the reasons that I've stayed away from Titan is that I simply couldn't reliably support 4GG, especially in the early game. While my build is nominally monogreen, the green is really more of a splash -- primarily for Ancient Stirrings and Crop Rotation. I rarely want to play more than one Forest unless truly necessary, frequently keep all-colorless hands, and regularly Crop Rotation away my only green source. Even with the full 4x Candelabras that I run, I've found that Titan was stranded in my hand far more often than I was comfortable with -- and that's even with a higher Forest count than you have here.

As far as Sylvan Scrying goes, it is definitely a powerful card. I've run it myself from time to time, and I regularly consider swapping out my SDTs for Sylvan Scrying. That said, it can also be slow. And you'll need more green sources for it to be consistent.

Personally, I think that being threat-light is one of the major benefits of playing Post. With the ability to easily tutor for your threats via Eye of Ugin (or dig deep with Ancient Stirrings), you can get away with devoting a minimum number of slots to just a few extremely high-impact and resilient threats, which leaves you a lot of room for toolbox cards, removal, and card selection with which to find them.


I've tried your deck, maybe not extensively. I found myself getting Jaced out or even spot removal with councils judgement was enough to shut me down.

[Postman]

Top 8'd the Black Lotus event with 100+ yesterday. Succumbing to Rich Shay's Grixis list while my deck faltered hard (two mulls, sub-par draws, zero relics), which counts my first game and match losses against Grixis once running heavy Relic's. Here's my list:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere

Matchups were grixisx2, omni (Loss), W/R bloodmoon, Belcherx2, Burn (ID).
Wow, just another Top8! Congrats! List looks solid, but one question: Ugin SB, for what Matchups?

[Rock Lee]

Wow, just another Top8! Congrats! List looks solid, but one question: Ugin SB, for what Matchups?

Ugin is for any fair matchup, or when I'm siding out titans/shows. Mostly I'm pre-boarding relics, so ugin comes in when you would expect it to be good, which isn't always, but often.

[TheBoozeCube]

I've tried your deck, maybe not extensively. I found myself getting Jaced out or even spot removal with councils judgement was enough to shut me down.

Is this vs Miracles, I assume? If so, your first priority in the matchup is simply to find Eye of Ugin. Unless they're running a Mentor build, resolving Expedition Map to find Eye should win you the game by itself well over 95% of the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MechTactical]

Top 8'd the Black Lotus event with 100+ yesterday. Succumbing to Rich Shay's Grixis list while my deck faltered hard (two mulls, sub-par draws, zero relics), which counts my first game and match losses against Grixis once running heavy Relic's. Here's my list:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere

Matchups were grixisx2, omni (Loss), W/R bloodmoon, Belcherx2, Burn (ID).

Rock congrats, you give us hope oh great creator!

I’d like to ask, if you’re planning to update the match-ups section with the latest tech and meta (in depth shit…)? Or maybe do one of those extensive tournament reports…? Throw us a bone man, some of us are complete noobs and would very much appreciate any insight you can share. Feed your humble minions and thy deck shall prosper.

[maCHOOga]

...Matchups were grixisx2, omni (Loss), W/R bloodmoon, Belcherx2, Burn (ID).

Belcher x2 ?

Please tell me trickbind got there. :-)

[Neko448]

Ugin is for any fair matchup, or when I'm siding out titans/shows. Mostly I'm pre-boarding relics, so ugin comes in when you would expect it to be good, which isn't always, but often.

Woah, hold on. Siding out titans? When is this correct? I've honestly never done this, but maybe it's absolutely correct. On a semi-related note, I was watching a 12post player thromp through the legacy PIQ in Milwaukee with Trinisphere and it's made me really start to respect the card. He sweeped his first three match-ups, Storm, Omni, Omni, with it, which are notoriously tough matchups. I feel like it's also good against decks like mentor and Aluren. Compared to Chalice on one, which has been my go to and is also really hard for me to play around, this allows us to press our mana advantage by continuing to cast spells. Are there matches where bringing in spheres over titans is correct?

Also, Platinum Emperion is an absolute house and probably going to be a mainstay in 12post for awhile.

[Rock Lee]

Belcher x2 ?

Please tell me trickbind got there. :-)

I was holding trickbind all 4 games at some point but they combo'd before I had 2 up, into goblins three times and all 4 games came down to chasm at either instant speed or show & tell emperion/titan.


Woah, hold on. Siding out titans? When is this correct? I've honestly never done this, but maybe it's absolutely correct. On a semi-related note, I was watching a 12post player thromp through the legacy PIQ in Milwaukee with Trinisphere and it's made me really start to respect the card. He sweeped his first three match-ups, Storm, Omni, Omni, with it, which are notoriously tough matchups. I feel like it's also good against decks like mentor and Aluren. Compared to Chalice on one, which has been my go to and is also really hard for me to play around, this allows us to press our mana advantage by continuing to cast spells. Are there matches where bringing in spheres over titans is correct?

Also, Platinum Emperion is an absolute house and probably going to be a mainstay in 12post for awhile.

I side out primeval titans against many decks. Reanimator, omni, storm, Anything really fast where chasm/bog won't win it for me.


Rock congrats, you give us hope oh great creator!

I’d like to ask, if you’re planning to update the match-ups section with the latest tech and meta (in depth shit…)? Or maybe do one of those extensive tournament reports…? Throw us a bone man, some of us are complete noobs and would very much appreciate any insight you can share. Feed your humble minions and thy deck shall prosper.

I will at a future time. I can update the meta decks a bit, with some newcomers like grixis and omni and also trickbind's usages. By the weekend for sure.

As for learning things like sideboarding and in depth plays, just playing the deck and looking for opportunities are your best bets.

[Postman]

I was holding trickbind all 4 games at some point but they combo'd before I had 2 up, into goblins three times and all 4 games came down to chasm at either instant speed or show & tell emperion/titan.



I side out primeval titans against many decks. Reanimator, omni, storm, Anything really fast where chasm/bog won't win it for me.



I will at a future time. I can update the meta decks a bit, with some newcomers like grixis and omni and also trickbind's usages. By the weekend for sure.

As for learning things like sideboarding and in depth plays, just playing the deck and looking for opportunities are your best bets.
Interesting SB - techs :-) I usually keep Titans against Reanimator, e.g. if they keep S'n'T in their deck as a tutor for Karakas / Chasm or to hardcast it later. Against omni I keep it to have more cards I can put into play when they S'n'T so I get priority to cast Wipe away / Grip... What are your wincons in these MUs?

[Sisyphos]

I wanted to make a note that modern tron, is somewhat a similar type deck.

I actually have been testing a deck that is among other things based on this.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Thespian Stage
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Forest
2 Taiga
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroclasm
2 All is Dust
2 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Chromatic Star
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Explore
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons torn

1 Savannah
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Trinisphere
1 Tabernacle
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ulamog/Karn, Liberated

Unfortunately my testing time has been limited these last couple of weeks, so the list is far from finished and the numbers are definitely open for tweaking, but so far it has been testing quite decently, especially considering how unfinished the list is. Sideboard is still pretty much a free-for-all, skewed by the heavy combo meta I play in.

[moseby]

Is this vs Miracles, I assume? If so, your first priority in the matchup is simply to find Eye of Ugin. Unless they're running a Mentor build, resolving Expedition Map to find Eye should win you the game by itself well over 95% of the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have always worked to get cavern of souls first vs miracles. In my limited experience I have found that resolving a prime time. is better then trying to dig for cloudposts. It is almost always is going to get plowed or terminused but he did his job when he resolves.

[Postman]

I have always worked to get cavern of souls first vs miracles. In my limited experience I have found that resolving a prime time. is better then trying to dig for cloudposts. It is almost always is going to get plowed or terminused but he did his job when her resolves.
Same is true for me. First goal: Cavern of Souls into Prime Time, at least in Game 1...

[Neko448]

Same is true for me. First goal: Cavern of Souls into Prime Time, at least in Game 1...

Pre-Mentor, I've always been under the impression the most important card in matchup is Eye of Ugin then expedition map. Cavern>Titan is good, but if they aren't putting a clock on you, just hitting land drops and running Titan after Titan into Force will usually be enough. Most of the time they just counter your Top or Map anyways, leaving you a clear route to stick a Titan. With Mentor though, IDK. Just slamming titan doesn't seem good or fast enough anymore and I really feel like the match up needs to be reassessed. It isn't the bye it used to be.

[TheBoozeCube]

I have always worked to get cavern of souls first vs miracles. In my limited experience I have found that resolving a prime time. is better then trying to dig for cloudposts. It is almost always is going to get plowed or terminused but he did his job when he resolves.

Doesn't really apply in my build, as it doesn't play either Cavern or PrimeTime. Eye is basically all I need to beat Miracles. Unless they present an early clock -- which they almost never do unless they're on a Mentor build -- you will have plenty of time to develop your mana. If you have the Eye, you have all the threats you ever need, and couldn't care less about Terminus. Kozilek buries them under a flood of card advantage, Ulamog takes out a Jace about to ultimate, and Emrakul just wins.

Resolving a T1 Expedition Map under Counterbalance has been enough to guarantee a win for me 99% of the time. Literally, I have only lost a single game where vs Miracles where that happened; my opponent had a T3 Blood Moon on the play and then immediately topdecked Clique to knock the K-Grip out of my hand.

[Rock Lee]

Got 1st at weekly legacy with this build: Matchups were Tezzerator, Junk, Burn

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion

// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [ORI] Orbs of Warding


Yes, orbs came in every matchup and yes they were amazing.

[into_play]

Got 1st at weekly legacy with this build: Matchups were Tezzerator, Junk, Burn

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion

// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [ORI] Orbs of Warding


Yes, orbs came in every matchup and yes they were amazing.

Nice find on the orbs! I think I would make better use of the second line of text in order to erase Pyromancer token damage. Plus the combo hate it provides. Seems versatile enough to include.

Maindeck Trinisphere is bold. I have been using them out of the sideboard and they have been doing so much work for me. I like that they have the unique function of being good to drop in against Omni and as pre-emptive hate against Storm (I think this is the only card that fits this role). I might just have to try them maindecked.

Do you think the second basic Island is necessary? You have no Wipe Away and it seems like the slot could go to another utility land (second Vesuva?). But other than that, I really like this list. Seems like the Trickbind build is getting very polished and streamlined.

[deadlock]

On top of that Trini is strong against all decks running Probe + Therapy, which are quite a bunch.

Can we discuss Relic a bit? Its 'good' against alot of decks, but considered maindeck material due to Dig no? From a simple gy hate standpoint (not considering dig) we already have Bog and Surgical from the board. While strong, its also just meh or even pay 2 draw a card material in some matchups. What I noticed is that Remand is pretty strong against Dig, as they eat out their graveyard and have to rebuild afterwards. Besides this it is a good way to delay YP and Mentor and Lilliana. Repeal served a similar purpose in earlier builds, but is more expensive and cant handle token generators that well. Remand is weak against very low to the ground decks like Tempo ***** or 'cast trigger decks' like Enchantress though.
I would appreciate to focus the discussion on Rock Lees list as a common ground and talk about single cards choices.

[maCHOOga]

3-0 with my Bant build last night beating NicShift, Manaless Dredge and Miracles.

Accidentally attacked in with a Meddling Mage against a vengeful pharaoh in a graveyard. That felt really bad lol!

I still need to find a way to squeeze in a basic forest, because my build feels more susceptible to blood moon than normal.

[MechTactical]

Dudes,

I’m looking at two tournaments in the next two weeks (they come rarely in my parts...:cry:) and I’m excited to play this beast, but I’m still not quite set on the build, as on the one hand I want to copy rock’s list and on the other I want to run those god damn FoW's I just bought…

Here’s what I have thus far:

Land (26)
• 1x Bojuka Bog
• 1x Cavern of Souls
• 4x Cloudpost
• 1x Eye of Ugin
• 1x Forest
• 1x Glacial Chasm
• 4x Glimmerpost
• 2x Island
• 1x Karakas
• 4x Misty Rainforest
• 4x Tropical Island
• 2x Vesuva

Sorcery (4)
• 4x Show and Tell

Artifact (10)
• 1x Candelabra of Tawnos
• 1x Engineered Explosives
• 2x Expedition Map
• 2x Relic of Progenitus
• 4x Sensei's Divining Top

Creature (9)
• 1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
• 1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
• 2x Platinum Emperion
• 4x Primeval Titan
• 1x Trinket Mage

Instant (11)
• 4x Brainstorm
• 3x Crop Rotation
• 4x Trickbind

Sideboard (15)
• 2x Blue Elemental Blast
• 4x Force of Will
• 3x Krosan Grip
• 2x Surgical Extraction
• 2x Swan Song
• 2x Trinisphere

Any suggestions?

Here’s a trick question for you Rock: if someone pointed an AK-12 assault rifle at you and said in Russian: play those god damn FoW’s or die! Which list would you present to them?
you would probably get shot as you don't speak Russian right? but let's assume they’re asking the question in Mandarin, which you speak fluently ... :laugh:
Anyways i'm looking forward to rock’s update of the match-ups section – very much so! Thanks man.

[Ehhh]

I'd watch that stream. Watching you thrash Manaless Dredge on camera is the reason I picked up 12 post, and Legacy as a whole for that matter.

No Ugin? Natural Selection over Ancient Stirrings? Leyline of Sanctity over additional spheres? No Krosan Grip? I'd like to know your thoughts on those choices as they're quite different from what has worked well for me.

I'm going to start the stream tonight after work at 6:30pm PST maybe earlier depending when I get off work :D

my name on twitch is Ehhhhhhh (7 H's) also this is the list i'll be running.. I went 2-1 yesterday with some unfortunate draws against Maverick.. that matchup should've been a bye :P <Didn't Draw green sources / kept semi-greedy hands> Top just didn't get there...

here is my new list

4 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Pyroclasm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Into the North
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
1 Courser of Kruphix

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Taiga
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Dark Depths
1 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Thespian's Stage

SB
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Krosan Grip
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Savannah
1 Gaddock Teeg

[Zotmaster]

On top of that Trini is strong against all decks running Probe + Therapy, which are quite a bunch.

Can we discuss Relic a bit? Its 'good' against alot of decks, but considered maindeck material due to Dig no? From a simple gy hate standpoint (not considering dig) we already have Bog and Surgical from the board. While strong, its also just meh or even pay 2 draw a card material in some matchups. What I noticed is that Remand is pretty strong against Dig, as they eat out their graveyard and have to rebuild afterwards. Besides this it is a good way to delay YP and Mentor and Lilliana. Repeal served a similar purpose in earlier builds, but is more expensive and cant handle token generators that well. Remand is weak against very low to the ground decks like Tempo ***** or 'cast trigger decks' like Enchantress though.
I would appreciate to focus the discussion on Rock Lees list as a common ground and talk about single cards choices.

I'm not Rock obviously, but I like Relic of Progenitus a lot. It just does a lot of good things. The prevalence of Dig Through Time has made cards that can combat the graveyard on a long-term basis a lot more practical. But Relic also gives a lot more value beyond that. As Rock has pointed out many times, most decks that can kill you on turn 1 or turn 2 utilize the graveyard in some way. While we do have Crop Rotation + Bojuka Bog as a potential out, there is nothing wrong with having a more extensive list of outs, especially when you can put that out right on the table and tell your opponent that they have to play around this or lose...although Relic is admittedly inferior to Tormod's Crypt in this scenario. It also does a good job of fighting Deathrite Shaman: if you can deny a BUG deck access to three mana on turn two, you often go a long way toward stifling their development. I've also seen Grixis lists that run Deathrite. The fact that it exiles your own graveyard doesn't really matter as our deck, minus the moment an Eldrazi trigger happens, generally only cares about our graveyard insofar as our opponents gaining advantage from it. Relic plays nicely with Trinket Mage if you want to run a toolbox package. And as a last resort, if the card has outlived its usefulness, you can turn it into another card.

[maCHOOga]

Dudes,

I’m looking at two tournaments in the next two weeks (they come rarely in my parts...:cry:) and I’m excited to play this beast, but I’m still not quite set on the build, as on the one hand I want to copy rock’s list and on the other I want to run those god damn FoW's I just bought…


Do you know what metagame to expect at these tournaments? If you expect unfair matchups (OMNI, storm, etc...) then you can gravitate towards FoW. If you expect a lot of fair, you might be able to leave the FoW at home.

Lastly, if your running FoW, make sure you have an ample count of blue cards post board. I always aim for 15-18, including the FoWs.

[Rock Lee]

Do you think the second basic Island is necessary? You have no Wipe Away and it seems like the slot could go to another utility land (second Vesuva?). But other than that, I really like this list. Seems like the Trickbind build is getting very polished and streamlined.

I think second basic island is better than 2nd Vesuva, but it is a flex slot for 2nd vesuva and I could understand the sub.



On top of that Trini is strong against all decks running Probe + Therapy, which are quite a bunch.

Can we discuss Relic a bit? Its 'good' against alot of decks, but considered maindeck material due to Dig no? From a simple gy hate standpoint (not considering dig) we already have Bog and Surgical from the board. While strong, its also just meh or even pay 2 draw a card material in some matchups. What I noticed is that Remand is pretty strong against Dig, as they eat out their graveyard and have to rebuild afterwards. Besides this it is a good way to delay YP and Mentor and Lilliana. Repeal served a similar purpose in earlier builds, but is more expensive and cant handle token generators that well. Remand is weak against very low to the ground decks like Tempo ***** or 'cast trigger decks' like Enchantress though.
I would appreciate to focus the discussion on Rock Lees list as a common ground and talk about single cards choices.

Relic is there mostly for Deathrite Shaman acceleration, secondly for graveyard abuse (snapcasters/reanimator/past in flames/cabal therapy), thirdly for cycling on colorless mana as a fixer, and lastly for dig through time. All in that order of priority.


Dudes,

Here’s a trick question for you Rock: if someone pointed an AK-12 assault rifle at you and said in Russian: play those god damn FoW’s or die! Which list would you present to them?
you would probably get shot as you don't speak Russian right? but let's assume they’re asking the question in Mandarin, which you speak fluently ... :laugh:
Anyways i'm looking forward to rock’s update of the match-ups section – very much so! Thanks man.


If you HAVE to play FoW, then include another blue card main, either spell pierce or repeal, likely over the spot of x2 plat emperion and x1 SDT. Then sub x2 of your silver bullet cards in the sideboard for fow. I would probably use orbs of warding and surgical extractions. Not optimal, but could work. Keep the rest of my list the same.

[MGB]

So is the consensus now that 12Post is a much better metagame choice recently due to the decreased presence of Omnitell, which was otherwise omnipresent a few months ago?

[Darkenslight]

So is the consensus now that 12Post is a much better metagame choice recently due to the decreased presence of Omnitell, which was otherwise omnipresent a few months ago?

Looks like it. I'm interested in the rationale for the Emperion, because it's not quite what I was thinking of for Dudes for this deck.

[maCHOOga]

Looks like it. I'm interested in the rationale for the Emperion, because it's not quite what I was thinking of for Dudes for this deck.

Here's my two cents worth... it's basically a speed bump / brick wall that a lot of deck's can't beat. Just be cautious about attacking with him.

Game 1 here's why:

Delver can't beat it, unless they have a miser's vapor snag/liliana etc.
Burn needs to launch 2-3 burn spells to kill it.
Storm can't beat it.
It laughs at Marit Leige and punishing fire
Belcher has to belch it before they can belch you. LoL!

It's a slottable with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Just that it can be fetched and cast with Eye of Ugin. I initially scaled back to one copy, but quickly went back up to two emperions.

[Morden]

So is the consensus now that 12Post is a much better metagame choice recently due to the decreased presence of Omnitell, which was otherwise omnipresent a few months ago?

Speaking about my local meta (Northern Italy) I think this is not the most beautiful age for 12post
-omnitell is far from be out of meta: simply a lot of decks now know its presence in the meta and act consequently, so its victories are less. Maybe only with DTT's ban or something similiar we'll see it decrease.
-miracle: it was one of the reason that pushed me to play this deck. My meta was full of them, and as we all know, it's an easy matchup. But now 90% of them became miracle-mentor, and now it's more difficult.
-burn:for the new season here modern will be not play too much, and so those players are coming to legacy. Burn is the cheapest and simplest deck to begin with. Another bad matchup.....

I hope your situation is different.

[Ponders]

Speaking about my local meta (Northern Italy) I think this is not the most beautiful age for 12post
-omnitell is far from be out of meta: simply a lot of decks now know its presence in the meta and act consequently, so its victories are less. Maybe only with DTT's ban or something similiar we'll see it decrease.
-miracle: it was one of the reason that pushed me to play this deck. My meta was full of them, and as we all know, it's an easy matchup. But now 90% of them became miracle-mentor, and now it's more difficult.
-burn:for the new season here modern will be not play too much, and so those players are coming to legacy. Burn is the cheapest and simplest deck to begin with. Another bad matchup.....

I hope your situation is different.


An early tabernacle does a lot of work to slow the mentor velocity.

[TheBoozeCube]

An early tabernacle does a lot of work to slow the mentor velocity.

100% agreed. I played against Mentor Miracles in the finals of my Win-a-Trop two weeks ago, and was considering siding it out, like I usually do against traditional Miracles. And I'm very, very glad that I didn't. I was honestly amazed at just how much work Tabernacle actually did. My opponent still managed to take a good-sized chunk out of my life total. But Tabernacle bought me enough time to stabilize and wipe his board.

Basically, Tabernacle keeps the damage you take manageable. If they keep more tokens alive, they have that much less mana to trigger prowess, and vice versa. Tabernacle is obviously much less effective in the late game, but when your opponent is still on 5 or less mana, it really hinders their ability to just start chaining Tops and cantrips to kill you out of nowhere.

[Rock Lee]

Just split the top 4 of a SCG IQ with this list:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion

// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [ORI] Orbs of Warding


Matchups were Red Mud, Omni (loss), Reanimator, Post Mud, ID/w U/R delver, Quarter Finals Omni (win)

[Darkenslight]

Just split the top 4 of a SCG IQ with this list:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion

// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [ORI] Orbs of Warding


Matchups were Red Mud, Omni (loss), Reanimator, Post Mud, ID/w U/R delver, Quarter Finals Omni (win)

HA! I kept telling people Trickbind is The Shit.

[Morden]

An early tabernacle does a lot of work to slow the mentor velocity.

I totally agree. I just said that miracle was a very easy matchup, now it's not true anymore. If tabernacle was in sideboard, now I'm thinking to put it mainbord (when I played the monogreen version I had it mainbord indeed....)

[Rock Lee]

HA! I kept telling people Trickbind is The Shit.

I agree. Never before have I kept the list exactly the same between events and Top 8'd/won/split the next event, nevermind the next 4 events.

The deck is currently on fire, and doesn't feel like it is getting unexpectedly strong hands. My current goal is to find a Monestary Mentor esque solution, but mentor decks currently don't have answers to chasm, so I may just treat them similarly to how I used to treat elves.

:EDIT: The biggest aspect of this incarnation of the deck is that it can beat Omni. In the Top 8 of this event I 2-0'd omni by putting in emrakul and trickbinding theirs, swinging in for the win.

[Morden]

I agree. Never before have I kept the list exactly the same between events and Top 8'd/won/split the next event, nevermind the next 4 events.

The deck is currently on fire, and doesn't feel like it is getting unexpectedly strong hands. My current goal is to find a Monestary Mentor esque solution, but mentor decks currently don't have answers to chasm, so I may just treat them similarly to how I used to treat elves.

Much much better trinisphere than wipe away..... ;)

[TheBoozeCube]

I totally agree. I just said that miracle was a very easy matchup, now it's not true anymore. If tabernacle was in sideboard, now I'm thinking to put it mainbord (when I played the monogreen version I had it mainbord indeed....)

It's still an easy matchup, just not a bye anymore. Now it's only maybe 80/20 instead of 95/5. You actually have to play now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[drude1]

Hey BoozeCube, do you still play a monogreen list? If so, have you ever played with Beast Within? I'm looking for a catch-all that isn't super expensive and this seems to foot the bill. You can also make a 3/3 for yourself and surprise block against things like death and taxes, etc. I'm curious what your list is looking like these days. I'm semi-tempted to move over to U/G just because trickbind sounds like a blast to play with, but part of me just doesn't want to give up on mono-green as it just beats so many decks.

[Morden]

I have the same big doubt drude: blue or green?
Green build was my first love, it's difficult to stop thinking of it :D It's solid, cards like Natural order or eureka are only side plan (eureka, by the way, is HUGE with 2x ugin in the deck). But you have less control on the game, and you miss the great "combo" brainstorm+fetch, that can fix a bad hand easily. Ancient stirrings is good, specially in a build like Booze's one, but in a deck with a lot of green cards (titans, eureka, crop, explore.....) you use it only as a land-draw; I'd like something better......
I don't know :(

[maCHOOga]

I have the same big doubt drude: blue or green?
Green build was my first love, it's difficult to stop thinking of it :D It's solid, cards like Natural order or eureka are only side plan (eureka, by the way, is HUGE with 2x ugin in the deck). But you have less control on the game, and you miss the great "combo" brainstorm+fetch, that can fix a bad hand easily. Ancient stirrings is good, specially in a build like Booze's one, but in a deck with a lot of green cards (titans, eureka, crop, explore.....) you use it only as a land-draw; I'd like something better......
I don't know :(

I had a brief stint when I was playing UG Eureka. Eureka is very powerful, my only issue with it is sometimes you randomly loose as a result.

[maCHOOga]

And on a side note...Dig Through Time is outta here Friday. I guess its time to re-tool again. :-)

[Rock Lee]

And on a side note...Dig Through Time is outta here Friday. I guess its time to re-tool again. :-)

Indeed. Black vise back. I love that.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/september-28-2015-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-09-28

And here I was just finally comfortable with hugely hating on the card.

Glad to see omni get completely D-listed as an archetype though.

Shame though. I really feared no deck in the current meta with my current build. See my Top finishes in huge tournaments for the last 5 consecutive events.

[TheBoozeCube]

Hey BoozeCube, do you still play a monogreen list? If so, have you ever played with Beast Within? I'm looking for a catch-all that isn't super expensive and this seems to foot the bill. You can also make a 3/3 for yourself and surprise block against things like death and taxes, etc. I'm curious what your list is looking like these days. I'm semi-tempted to move over to U/G just because trickbind sounds like a blast to play with, but part of me just doesn't want to give up on mono-green as it just beats so many decks.

Yep. Trickbind seems intriguing, but I'm hopelessly addicted to the raw power of monogreen with Ancient Stirrings. I've never tried Beast Within in Legacy, although I used to play with it extensively in Modern and Standard. I'm not a huge fan of it in my Post builds for a couple of reasons:

- Tempo-wise, you're frequently going to have access to All Is Dust as a catch-all just as quickly as BW, as both require 3 land drops. Ugin is only a hair slower. I prefer these two because they have so much greater impact.

- It's green, so you can't find it with Ancient Stirrings. Not a dealbreaker by any means, but it's less easy to find when you need it.

- Seeing a 3/3 across the table isn't much more appealing than the majority of enemy creatures. The creatures you most need to hit are either (a) easily answered with Maze or Karakas (Griselbrand, Goyf), (b) can't be targeted anyway (TNN, Progenitus, Emrakul), or (c) have probably already gotten significant value (SFM, Pyromancer, Mentor, Craterhoof). The only real problem creatures that BW hits better than All Is Dust are Phyrexian Revoker, Painter, Magus of the Moon, and Tidespout Tyrant (on the draw).

- Having a surprise blocker can be good, but it's rarely more effective than neutralizing their creature with Maze of Ith. Except for surprising a Pyromancer, the token will just be a chump blocker against most significant creatures.

- Planeswalkers are already relatively easy to deal with between Dust, Ugin, and Pithing Needle.

- The only real problem lands in the format for us are Wasteland and Port. BW does nothing vs Wasteland. Candelabra and Needle already fight Port. Moreover, giving a 3/3 to the main decks that play Port seems unwise. Goblins and D&T have you on the defensive, so the token shortens your clock when that's already a factor. And one of the few advances vs Lands is that they don't have a real clock other than Depths. If you can neutralize Wasteland and Depths, you can grind them out. Punishing Fire isn't going to get there; giving them a 3/3 might.

- Postboard, K-Grip is infinitely superior for answering artifacts and enchantments.

Anyway, that's more or less why I don't play Beast Within. My current build is basically the same, but with new Ulamog replacing old Ulamog. I'm hoping that I'll be able to cut a Sphere/Trini/Trap if banning DTT diminishes Omni's presence in the meta. I miss being able to board down to 60 in g2/3.

Main Deck (61)

Creatures (4)
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells (28)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands (29)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
8 Forest

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
4 Mindbreak Trap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Morden]

I had a brief stint when I was playing UG Eureka. Eureka is very powerful, my only issue with it is sometimes you randomly loose as a result.

I'd put eureka only in monogreen version, with blue I think s&t is faster and easier to cast (U vs GG, not a big problem but sometimes it can make the difference). Also chris's list, with UGW, is very attractive.....so many options with this deck, love it :D

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Hey fellow 12posters. I've been looking for a better creature to natural order away, right now I'm playing dryad arbor and satyr wayfinder but I feel like there's got to be a better option out there. The only build I saw with natural order in it played 3 oracle of mul daya, but I'm not a huge fan of that since you want to be casting natural order on turn 4, not 5. So something with a CMC less than 4. I've thought of courser of kruphix but the double green is tough for t3 because you want to be playing your posts first usually. I've also thought of Veteran Explorer, but I don't think I play enough basics for that to be viable and there's not much space. Here's my current list, for reference:

Creatures [9]
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Primeval Titan

Instants [6]
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moments Peace
Sorceries [10]
4 Explore
2 Natural Order
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ancient Stirrings
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts [7]
3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [27]
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cloudpost
2 Forest
3 Savannah
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva

Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sacred Ground
2 Rest in Peace
1 Glacial Chasm

Not a huge fan of Moment's peace because pretty much every creature deck plays deathrite shaman. I also usually board in rest in peace against most creatures decks because they're typically playing tarmogoyf, so one fog and done just isn't good enough. Maybe swords to plowshares is what I'm looking for. I've tried wrath of god in the past, but it clashes with my natural order plan so I'm not playing it anymore.

I was doing quite well with the deck, but lately I've had trouble beating BUG delver and infect. I feel like the infect matchup is hopeless. I could use some tips for ways to win the BUG delver matchup. They have just the right amount of disruption backed up by pressure to run me over. I also don't have a candle, but when I borrowed it from a friend it didn't impress me much. You have to have cloudposts in play or its not worthwhile, and when you do you're already likely winning and can cast eldrazi anyway. How much faster does it make the deck? I'm leaning towards either buying tropical islands and switching to the U/G version or just buying a couple of eurekas and trying those out in my current build. Is the U/G version objectively better than the G/W or mono green builds?

[Rock Lee]

Hey fellow 12posters. I've been looking for a better creature to natural order away, right now I'm playing dryad arbor and satyr wayfinder but I feel like there's got to be a better option out there. The only build I saw with natural order in it played 3 oracle of mul daya, but I'm not a huge fan of that since you want to be casting natural order on turn 4, not 5. So something with a CMC less than 4. I've thought of courser of kruphix but the double green is tough for t3 because you want to be playing your posts first usually. I've also thought of Veteran Explorer, but I don't think I play enough basics for that to be viable and there's not much space. Here's my current list, for reference:

Creatures [9]
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Primeval Titan

Instants [6]
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moments Peace
Sorceries [10]
4 Explore
2 Natural Order
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ancient Stirrings
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts [7]
3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [27]
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cloudpost
2 Forest
3 Savannah
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva

Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sacred Ground
2 Rest in Peace
1 Glacial Chasm

Not a huge fan of Moment's peace because pretty much every creature deck plays deathrite shaman. I also usually board in rest in peace against most creatures decks because they're typically playing tarmogoyf, so one fog and done just isn't good enough. Maybe swords to plowshares is what I'm looking for. I've tried wrath of god in the past, but it clashes with my natural order plan so I'm not playing it anymore.

I was doing quite well with the deck, but lately I've had trouble beating BUG delver and infect. I feel like the infect matchup is hopeless. I could use some tips for ways to win the BUG delver matchup. They have just the right amount of disruption backed up by pressure to run me over. I also don't have a candle, but when I borrowed it from a friend it didn't impress me much. You have to have cloudposts in play or its not worthwhile, and when you do you're already likely winning and can cast eldrazi anyway. How much faster does it make the deck? I'm leaning towards either buying tropical islands and switching to the U/G version or just buying a couple of eurekas and trying those out in my current build. Is the U/G version objectively better than the G/W or mono green builds?

The creature you are looking for is Sylvan Caryatid.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

The creature you are looking for is Sylvan Caryatid.

Thank you! It seems so obvious now, I can't believe I didn't think of it.

[Ponders]

Dig through time: BANNED. Not sorry to see it go at all.

[Ponders]

The biggest difficulty I see is that you're trying to play 4x Primeval Titan in this list. One of the reasons that I've stayed away from Titan is that I simply couldn't reliably support 4GG, especially in the early game. While my build is nominally monogreen, the green is really more of a splash -- primarily for Ancient Stirrings and Crop Rotation. I rarely want to play more than one Forest unless truly necessary, frequently keep all-colorless hands, and regularly Crop Rotation away my only green source. Even with the full 4x Candelabras that I run, I've found that Titan was stranded in my hand far more often than I was comfortable with -- and that's even with a higher Forest count than you have here.

As far as Sylvan Scrying goes, it is definitely a powerful card. I've run it myself from time to time, and I regularly consider swapping out my SDTs for Sylvan Scrying. That said, it can also be slow. And you'll need more green sources for it to be consistent.

Personally, I think that being threat-light is one of the major benefits of playing Post. With the ability to easily tutor for your threats via Eye of Ugin (or dig deep with Ancient Stirrings), you can get away with devoting a minimum number of slots to just a few extremely high-impact and resilient threats, which leaves you a lot of room for toolbox cards, removal, and card selection with which to find them.



You are correct about titan being in my hand most of the time running that list. Sadly. I'm not sure what to replace it with. I do like your list, even for its monogreen-ness. I like the sweepers.

[TheBoozeCube]

You are correct about titan being in my hand most of the time running that list. Sadly. I'm not sure what to replace it with. I do like your list, even for its monogreen-ness. I like the sweepers.

Thanks, I love the sweepers too. I've always been drawn to board control rather than stack control.

As far as replacing the Titans, I'd definitely go up to the full 4x Crop Rotation. This style of build is naturally weaker to combo, and access to instant-speed Bojuka Bog is one of our few maindeck defenses against Storm (although I do expect Ulamog 2.0 to improve the matchup a little when on the play, since T3 Ulamog taking out 2 lands is very doable with a fast hand). If you like sweepers, I could also see going up to a second and even third Ugin, as he has been proving to be the stone-cold nuts for me. I also could see Sundering Titan, which has always been on the shortlist of cards I keep on the bench. Or a lot of people on this forum have been really into Platinum Emperion lately, although I haven't tested with it myself. Wurmcoil could even be an option, especially if you find yourself in an aggressive meta.

[Ponders]

Thanks, I love the sweepers too. I've always been drawn to board control rather than stack control.

As far as replacing the Titans, I'd definitely go up to the full 4x Crop Rotation. This style of build is naturally weaker to combo, and access to instant-speed Bojuka Bog is one of our few maindeck defenses against Storm (although I do expect Ulamog 2.0 to improve the matchup a little when on the play, since T3 Ulamog taking out 2 lands is very doable with a fast hand). If you like sweepers, I could also see going up to a second and even third Ugin, as he has been proving to be the stone-cold nuts for me. I also could see Sundering Titan, which has always been on the shortlist of cards I keep on the bench. Or a lot of people on this forum have been really into Platinum Emperion lately, although I haven't tested with it myself. Wurmcoil could even be an option, especially if you find yourself in an aggressive meta.

Been having a difficult time winning anything over the last week or so. Just, always the wrong cards in hand. Even the bluegreen that I was fond of isn't getting me there. With all the variants now, not sure what i shoudl be playing. What I have tried, is adding oblivion stone in some of those slots you mentioned, as well as animists' awakening.

[Hopo]

Hey fellow 12posters. I've been looking for a better creature to natural order away, right now I'm playing dryad arbor and satyr wayfinder but I feel like there's got to be a better option out there. The only build I saw with natural order in it played 3 oracle of mul daya, but I'm not a huge fan of that since you want to be casting natural order on turn 4, not 5. So something with a CMC less than 4. I've thought of courser of kruphix but the double green is tough for t3 because you want to be playing your posts first usually. I've also thought of Veteran Explorer, but I don't think I play enough basics for that to be viable and there's not much space.
------
Not a huge fan of Moment's peace because pretty much every creature deck plays deathrite shaman.

----------
I feel like the infect matchup is hopeless.

You seem to have found out that Natural Order is not optimal here due to the problems you are suffering from. Solution: ditch it or remake the deck to really support it.

Also, you dislike one of the better cards against Infect while having issues with Infect. There's some room for improvement as well.

[Morden]

Here is a list I'm thinking of, after the banlist
Main

2 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
3 Terminus
3 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Tundra
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Trickbind
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Expedition Map

Side

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sacred Ground
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pithing Needle
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip


as you can see, it's based on chris's one, with some little modifications:
a) 2 emperions+1 kozilek: I cannot leave my favourite eldrazi out of my list....It doesn't fit well with S&T, but I hope to hardcast it, not play only with S&T....emperion in some matchup is not so good, kozilek is good always.
b) 3 terminus+1 glacial chasm: sometimes opponent's creatures are too fast, and we cannot wait for a terminus. Crop + chasm it's an evergreen, and it's good also vs burn (I lost a lot of time with burn also with S&T.....if we don't have S&T and emperion on opening hand, it's hard)
c) 2 needle + 3 trickbind: OK, wasteland is not a problem anymore :D. and also storm and elves and other winning "triggered wincon". I'd like to insert some repeal, but I think this choice is the best.
d) 3 expedition map: Chris didn't have them on his list. It's hard for me to give them up....also because the shuffling effect is great in a deck without ponder.

Sideboard is still in construction, here are my general ideas:
a) relic: just one, to avoid a surgical on a cloudpost gone in the graveyard, to counter deathrite, tarmo, and so on.
b) sacred ground: cataclysm or recurring wasteland
c) beb: sneak attack is coming back to town, and blood moon is always here. Price of progress too, better have something more than flusterstorm. Some burn deck probably will side vexing susher, beb can destroy them easily.
d) surgical: graveyard hate at instant speed, target opponent's wasteland gone in graveyard, etc etc etc
e) tabernacle: my meta is FULL of mentors, this card plus terminus can slow them down.

What do you think guys?

[Postman]

Here is a list I'm thinking of, after the banlist
Main

2 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
3 Terminus
3 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Tundra
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Trickbind
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Expedition Map

Side

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sacred Ground
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pithing Needle
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip


as you can see, it's based on chris's one, with some little modifications:
a) 2 emperions+1 kozilek: I cannot leave my favourite eldrazi out of my list....It doesn't fit well with S&T, but I hope to hardcast it, not play only with S&T....emperion in some matchup is not so good, kozilek is good always.
b) 3 terminus+1 glacial chasm: sometimes opponent's creatures are too fast, and we cannot wait for a terminus. Crop + chasm it's an evergreen, and it's good also vs burn (I lost a lot of time with burn also with S&T.....if we don't have S&T and emperion on opening hand, it's hard)
c) 2 needle + 3 trickbind: OK, wasteland is not a problem anymore :D. and also storm and elves and other winning "triggered wincon". I'd like to insert some repeal, but I think this choice is the best.
d) 3 expedition map: Chris didn't have them on his list. It's hard for me to give them up....also because the shuffling effect is great in a deck without ponder.

Sideboard is still in construction, here are my general ideas:
a) relic: just one, to avoid a surgical on a cloudpost gone in the graveyard, to counter deathrite, tarmo, and so on.
b) sacred ground: cataclysm or recurring wasteland
c) beb: sneak attack is coming back to town, and blood moon is always here. Price of progress too, better have something more than flusterstorm. Some burn deck probably will side vexing susher, beb can destroy them easily.
d) surgical: graveyard hate at instant speed, target opponent's wasteland gone in graveyard, etc etc etc
e) tabernacle: my meta is FULL of mentors, this card plus terminus can slow them down.

What do you think guys?
I would never put Bojuka Bog in the SB, it's too important in several MUs. Why no Ulamog 2.0? Maybe even over Kozilek? Drawing 4 cards is great, but there are games where you tap out, play Kozilek, draw 4 cards and die :-/ destroying 2 lands or 2 threats or a mix could be often more helpful, don't you think?

[Morden]

you're right postman. I can remove 1 map (2 are enough) and add the bojuka. Probably the new ulamog is better than kozilek, I will test it: my only doubt about this is that I think S&T is better with kozilek than with ulamog 2.0. The WYC effect of Ulamog can be better than the draw effect, but attacking with annihilator is 90% game (of course, kozilek must survive a turn).

[Postman]

you're right postman. I can remove 1 map (2 are enough) and add the bojuka. Probably the new ulamog is better than kozilek, I will test it: my only doubt about this is that I think S&T is better with kozilek than with ulamog 2.0. The WYC effect of Ulamog can be better than the draw effect, but attacking with annihilator is 90% game (of course, kozilek must survive a turn).
That's true, but most of the time a non-emrakul doesn't attack because it get's countered, bounced, sworded or lilly handles it :-(

[maCHOOga]

Here is a list I'm thinking of, after the banlist

as you can see, it's based on chris's one, with some little modifications:
a) 2 emperions+1 kozilek: I cannot leave my favourite eldrazi out of my list....It doesn't fit well with S&T, but I hope to hardcast it, not play only with S&T....emperion in some matchup is not so good, kozilek is good always.
b) 3 terminus+1 glacial chasm: sometimes opponent's creatures are too fast, and we cannot wait for a terminus. Crop + chasm it's an evergreen, and it's good also vs burn (I lost a lot of time with burn also with S&T.....if we don't have S&T and emperion on opening hand, it's hard)
c) 2 needle + 3 trickbind: OK, wasteland is not a problem anymore :D. and also storm and elves and other winning "triggered wincon". I'd like to insert some repeal, but I think this choice is the best.
d) 3 expedition map: Chris didn't have them on his list. It's hard for me to give them up....also because the shuffling effect is great in a deck without ponder.

Sideboard is still in construction, here are my general ideas:
a) relic: just one, to avoid a surgical on a cloudpost gone in the graveyard, to counter deathrite, tarmo, and so on.
b) sacred ground: cataclysm or recurring wasteland
c) beb: sneak attack is coming back to town, and blood moon is always here. Price of progress too, better have something more than flusterstorm. Some burn deck probably will side vexing susher, beb can destroy them easily.
d) surgical: graveyard hate at instant speed, target opponent's wasteland gone in graveyard, etc etc etc
e) tabernacle: my meta is FULL of mentors, this card plus terminus can slow them down.

What do you think guys?

You're maindeck is within 8 cards of the BANT post I've been tuning recently. The differences are:
1 Candelabra of Tawnos -> 2 Candles
3 Trickbind -> 3 Repeal
1 Glacial Chasm -> 1 Forest
3 Expedition Map -> 2 Expedition Map

I'm also not playing Bojuka Bog main, wish I was, but the white splash chews up spots. I haven't been playing Glacial chasm, even though I know how good it is. I personally always prefer playing a forest so that I can have access to green through a blood moon.

[Morden]

That's true, but most of the time a non-emrakul doesn't attack because it get's countered, bounced, sworded or lilly handles it :-(

These cards will surely deserve some hard testing.....

[Morden]

You're maindeck is within 8 cards of the BANT post I've been tuning recently. The differences are:
1 Candelabra of Tawnos -> 2 Candles
3 Trickbind -> 3 Repeal
1 Glacial Chasm -> 1 Forest
3 Expedition Map -> 2 Expedition Map

I'm also not playing Bojuka Bog main, wish I was, but the white splash chews up spots. I haven't been playing Glacial chasm, even though I know how good it is. I personally always prefer playing a forest so that I can have access to green through a blood moon.

I'd like to play 2 candles, if I had! XD
The main reason I put trickbind over repeal is that with 3 terminus is not so necessary to have also repeal (at least, not 3 of them). Instead trickbind can save me against a lot of things that neither terminus nor repeal can contrast.

[TheBoozeCube]

Been having a difficult time winning anything over the last week or so. Just, always the wrong cards in hand. Even the bluegreen that I was fond of isn't getting me there. With all the variants now, not sure what i shoudl be playing. What I have tried, is adding oblivion stone in some of those slots you mentioned, as well as animists' awakening.

I've been playing around with Animist's Awakening in the Exploration slot of my build. It's interesting, for sure. The thing I like most about it is that it helps get you to 7/8 lands so that you can wipe the board vs Blood Moon in g1. What I don't like, however, is that it usually feels like a win-more card the rest of the time instead of true acceleration. I've gone back to Exploration because it helps race combo, but I'm definitely keeping Awakening on the short list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ponders]

I've been playing around with Animist's Awakening in the Exploration slot of my build. It's interesting, for sure. The thing I like most about it is that it helps get you to 7/8 lands so that you can wipe the board vs Blood Moon in g1. What I don't like, however, is that it usually feels like a win-more card the rest of the time instead of true acceleration. I've gone back to Exploration because it helps race combo, but I'm definitely keeping Awakening on the short list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Turn 1 Forest Opponent: Ancient tomb, chalice Crop rotate to Post
Turn 2 Post ------- Mox, Academy ruins
Turn 3 Post Oblivion stone, sylvan scry ------- Tezzeret, Pithing needle

[apple713]

I've been playing around with Animist's Awakening in the Exploration slot of my build. It's interesting, for sure. The thing I like most about it is that it helps get you to 7/8 lands so that you can wipe the board vs Blood Moon in g1. What I don't like, however, is that it usually feels like a win-more card the rest of the time instead of true acceleration. I've gone back to Exploration because it helps race combo, but I'm definitely keeping Awakening on the short list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is a win more card because to get value you need to be casting it for ~x=4-5. For that mana u can hope to get 2-3 lands which is worse than tutoring with titan. As you have found exploration is best. I have been tinkering with various type es of acceleration and think that ill settle on some combination of mox diamond exploration. 2x of each at most but more likely just one ofs because they are terrible in multiples.



Hey fellow 12posters. I've been looking for a better creature to natural order away, right now I'm playing dryad arbor and satyr wayfinder but I feel like there's got to be a better option out there. The only build I saw with natural order in it played 3 oracle of mul daya, but I'm not a huge fan of that since you want to be casting natural order on turn 4, not 5. So something with a CMC less than 4. I've thought of courser of kruphix but the double green is tough for t3 because you want to be playing your posts first usually. I've also thought of Veteran Explorer, but I don't think I play enough basics for that to be viable and there's not much space. Here's my current list, for reference:


I was doing quite well with the deck, but lately I've had trouble beating BUG delver and infect. I feel like the infect matchup is hopeless. I could use some tips for ways to win the BUG delver matchup. They have just the right amount of disruption backed up by pressure to run me over. I also don't have a candle, but when I borrowed it from a friend it didn't impress me much. You have to have cloudposts in play or its not worthwhile, and when you do you're already likely winning and can cast eldrazi anyway. How much faster does it make the deck? I'm leaning towards either buying tropical islands and switching to the

Natural order requires quite a few slots to be effective. Ive found that you should have at least 6 targets like priMe titan and progenitus. Additionally you need to get creatures into play early and reliably. I found that i couldnt go lower than 7 sacable creatures. That number included 2 dryad arbors. The reason i could get away with so fee is because i had 4 fetchlands to get arbors and 4 green sun zenith. You can run 1 veteran explorer with 4 basics. Since you want the explorer early game anywayss its unlikely you will have drawn 3 basics to make his search less advantageous. If gou run 2 explorers use 5 basics at least but 6 would be best. If you draw him late game its a pretty dead card whether u get lands out of it or not. Id recommend 1 explorer and more gsz because gsz is amazing. It lets you get cards like teeg out of the board which are huge and you only need 1 green to cast it.

[Loxmatii]

TheBoozeCube , if tomorrow there will be a Grand Prix. You will play your mono_G list. What main and sb will you create? I am asking about it, because in 2 days i will play Legacy in Ovino with my list from 34 place at GP Lille. It is quiet similiar to yours. Most of intereset for me is the sideboard. What is the plan against Sneak? it is very intersting to read your thoughts

[Morden]

Hope to see a lot of you in Milan for ovino!! I'll be there, only as spectator unluckly, I miss some cards for 12 post.

[Loxmatii]

Morden , write here or in private message, what do u miss
may be i can try to help

[Morden]

Thank you so much loxomatii, but I miss a lot of cards (basically all the blue ones.....S&T, fluster, brainstorm.....). Indeed, I'll go to ovino to buy/trade all these cards, so I won't have time to play :(

[Pdingo]

Hei Guys
Sadly i can't go to the Ovinogeddon.
But i will probably play 12 Post in MKM Series Prague:)

here's my list at the moment:

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Explore
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

I will probably cut 2 Cards in the Sb for 2 Krosan grips:)

[maCHOOga]

I still continue to have consistency issues with the BANT build of 12 post. I don't think I've every got top locked as much as I did last night. With the removal of dig through time and more important Omnitell, I'm thinking heading back to straight UG, to improve consistency.

Here was this weeks Tuesday "metagame". As you can see, I use that term loosely.

Round 1: Beat BUG delver.
Round 2: Lost to turn 1 tendrils game 1. Board my anti combo cards, loose turn 1 of game 2 to goblin charbelcher. No one expects the Spanish inquisiton! Stare at the meddling mage in my hand and 1 land in play as I'm getting belched.
Round 3: Lost against Jund NicFit / Scapeshift. Normally this is one of the easiest matches ever. Both games I mulliganed and then got top locked and proceed to just draw lands and basically 0 threats.

Oh well lol.

[Morden]

I still continue to have consistency issues with the BANT build of 12 post. I don't think I've every got top locked as much as I did last night. With the removal of dig through time and more important Omnitell, I'm thinking heading back to straight UG, to improve consistency.

Here was this weeks Tuesday "metagame". As you can see, I use that term loosely.

Round 1: Beat BUG delver.
Round 2: Lost to turn 1 tendrils game 1. Board my anti combo cards, loose turn 1 of game 2 to goblin charbelcher. No one expects the Spanish inquisiton! Stare at the meddling mage in my hand and 1 land in play as I'm getting belched.
Round 3: Lost against Jund NicFit / Scapeshift. Normally this is one of the easiest matches ever. Both games I mulliganed and then got top locked and proceed to just draw lands and basically 0 threats.

Oh well lol.

I suggest you to try more games......round 2 you lost on turn 1, what UG build can do? Only trickbind, and not on turn 1. With belcher you can use chasm as answer, but in fact I would have sided chasm out, I don't know, it's sure that no one expects belcher as sideplan to storm.(chasm is good only to empty the warrens in a "normal" match up against storm).
Round 3 maybe it was only bad luck.....ask yourself this "what would have changed with UG build?". C'mon, let's keep the terminus-post alive! :D

[Pdingo]

@Drixx

oh nice just post your List.
On Friday i play the trial with the List.

If you see a good looking guy that is playing mono G twelve Post then it's me:P
i think the Deck have good chances.

[Drixx]

@Drixx

oh nice just post your List.
On Friday i play the trial with the List.

If you see a good looking guy that is playing mono G twelve Post then it's me:P
i think the Deck have good chances.

ok i look forward for watching your playing , i'll try to get for trial too ;) my ug list

Emrakul 1
Kozilek 1
Primeval titan 4

Brainstorm 4
Crop rotation 3
Flusterstorm 3
Repeal 2
Trickbind 3

Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 1

Show and Tell 3

Candelabra of Tawnos 2
Expedition Map 3
Engineered Explosives 1
Sensei's Divining Top 4

Forest 1
Island 1
Bojuka bog 1
Cavern of Souls 1
Eye of Ugin 1
Glacial Chasm 1
Cloudpost 4
Glimmerpost 4
Karakas 1
Misty Rainforest 4
Tropical Island 4
Vesuva 2

SB:
Dismember 2
Blue elem. Blast 2
Force of will 2
Krosan Grip 3
Pithing Needle 2
Ugin, te spirit Dragon 1
Relic of Progenitus 2
Trinisphere 1

usually i have score like 3:1 but the worst match i have is with infect like 2:6

[Drixx]

i changed gut shots for dismember because is better in many matchups now Kotr in agro loam ,still killing infect guy with one pump on it and can kill random creatures like metal worker or mentor but it's not good idea to side it against mentormiracles i think .. fluster in main really perfect for me first thing was protect my crop rotation with fluster but anyway is very usefull ..

[TheBoozeCube]

TheBoozeCube , if tomorrow there will be a Grand Prix. You will play your mono_G list. What main and sb will you create? I am asking about it, because in 2 days i will play Legacy in Ovino with my list from 34 place at GP Lille. It is quiet similiar to yours. Most of intereset for me is the sideboard. What is the plan against Sneak? it is very intersting to read your thoughts

I would probably run this list:

Main Deck (61)

Creatures (4)
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells (28)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands (29)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
8 Forest

Sideboard (14)
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap

I've been running a 61/14 configuration for a long time, but I changed it to 61/15 for the past few months, just straight-up adding a Trinisphere to combat the OmniTell menace (tech I got from your Lille list, btw). With DTT banned, I think it's probably safe to go back to 14 in the board, cutting an anti-combo card. The question I'm still struggling with, however, is what to cut?

I've decided to cut one Trap from my board for a couple of reasons:

(a) The only matchups where all 4x Traps come in for are Omni, Storm, High Tide, Belcher, and Oops. Trinisphere is still very good in those matchups, and it is more proactive against Storm's discard. But Trinisphere is also very good in Pyromancer and Mentor matchups, as it slows down their ability to cantrip into tokens, where Trap is not.

(b) I can't justify cutting Sphere of Resistance. That card has just been too consistently good. In addition to spell-based combo, it does a lot to slow down Elves and Affinity. Most importantly, it comes down consistently on T2, unlike Trinisphere. 2x Trap still comes in vs Elves, but it is only really effective on a Glimpse combo turn, where Sphere interferes with Glimpse and also slows down their ability to develop their board normally.

As far as Sneak & Show goes, I've always found the matchup to be fairly even to slightly favorable. The most important thing is usually to get down a Pithing Needle naming Sneak Attack. Between Karakas and Maze of Ith, Griselbrand is reasonably easy to answer. What really beats us is an Emrakul with haste. Once they see that you're playing Cloudposts, most Sneak & Show players will be very cautious about playing a blind Show & Tell, so Sneak Attack becomes their primary line of attack. Unless you Needle their Sneak Attack (or they Probe you first), a smart opponent will wait until they have Sneak + at least one open red source before playing Show & Tell. I've seen them also bring in Through the Breach for this reason. If they only have one extra red source, Karakas will still stop Emrakul from annihilating your board. If they have multiple red sources, Candelabras + Karakas will still give you some breathing space.

The Krosan Grips are also very important in this matchup. While they won't save you from Sneak Attack with Emrakul, they are still fine to kill the enchantment if they put in Griselbrand. More often, however, you need them because they frequently bring in cards like Blood Moon, Null Rod, and/or Pithing Needles (naming Karakas, Maze, or Expedition Map). Obviously, Oblivion Stone comes in too.

Since I added Ugin after Sneak was mostly replaced by OmniTell, I haven't played the matchup enough to know if he's worth keeping in. On one hand, he kills Blood Moon and a bare Sneak Attack. His +2 ability might actually be very relevant, because they often use Griselbrand to draw down to a low life total, while your Maze or Karakas prevents them from connecting with lifelink. On the other hand, you can't put Ugin in off of their Show & Tell, and he can't come down and immediately kill either Griselbrand or Emrakul (note: killing Griselbrand is actually one of the reasons I have a split between All Is Dust and Ugin).

So for sideboarding, I'd probably end up going down to 60 with:
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Oblivion Stone
-1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -2 Ugin

Good luck, by the way!

[TheBoozeCube]

Hei Guys
Sadly i can't go to the Ovinogeddon.
But i will probably play 12 Post in MKM Series Prague:)

here's my list at the moment:

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Explore
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

I will probably cut 2 Cards in the Sb for 2 Krosan grips:)

What is the Grafdigger's Cage for?

[Ecstatic_Conch]

The creature you are looking for is Sylvan Caryatid.

Out of curiosity Rock why are there 6 "disenchant" effects in your board (3 krosan grip 3 nature's claim). It just seems like a lot, I played just 3 grips in my G/W version but I'm switching over to U/G most likely so I want to know.

[Pdingo]

@ BoozeCUbe

Gravedigger's Cage is important.
First Reanimator is not that easy;)
Sometimes Elves are to fast with NO so i play it..
All against Zenith decks that they can't search knight and crap some Lands

[maCHOOga]

I suggest you to try more games......round 2 you lost on turn 1, what UG build can do? Only trickbind, and not on turn 1. With belcher you can use chasm as answer, but in fact I would have sided chasm out, I don't know, it's sure that no one expects belcher as sideplan to storm.(chasm is good only to empty the warrens in a "normal" match up against storm).
Round 3 maybe it was only bad luck.....ask yourself this "what would have changed with UG build?". C'mon, let's keep the terminus-post alive! :D

It wasn't storm, it was the deck called Spanish Inquistion. Their goal is to kill you on turn 1 anyway they can. Never beating that deck.
Round 3 was variance I agree lol.

It depends how the metagame shifts post dig through time will depend which direction I take my deck.

[mykatdied]

It wasn't storm, it was the deck called Spanish Inquistion. Their goal is to kill you on turn 1 anyway they can. Never beating that deck.
Round 3 was variance I agree lol.

It depends how the metagame shifts post dig through time will depend which direction I take my deck.

Likely back to more midrange with jund and shardless making a come back. Sneak and show will definitely be coming back as the favored fatty combo deck. Delver variants will also likely be back in style excusing grixis from the meta for being bad without dig through time. Miracles will likely be back on the upswing as well.

[drude1]

I would probably run this list:

Main Deck (61)

Creatures (4)
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells (28)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands (29)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
8 Forest

Sideboard (14)
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap

I've been running a 61/14 configuration for a long time, but I changed it to 61/15 for the past few months, just straight-up adding a Trinisphere to combat the OmniTell menace (tech I got from your Lille list, btw). With DTT banned, I think it's probably safe to go back to 14 in the board, cutting an anti-combo card. The question I'm still struggling with, however, is what to cut?

I've decided to cut one Trap from my board for a couple of reasons:

(a) The only matchups where all 4x Traps come in for are Omni, Storm, High Tide, Belcher, and Oops. Trinisphere is still very good in those matchups, and it is more proactive against Storm's discard. But Trinisphere is also very good in Pyromancer and Mentor matchups, as it slows down their ability to cantrip into tokens, where Trap is not.

(b) I can't justify cutting Sphere of Resistance. That card has just been too consistently good. In addition to spell-based combo, it does a lot to slow down Elves and Affinity. Most importantly, it comes down consistently on T2, unlike Trinisphere. 2x Trap still comes in vs Elves, but it is only really effective on a Glimpse combo turn, where Sphere interferes with Glimpse and also slows down their ability to develop their board normally.

As far as Sneak & Show goes, I've always found the matchup to be fairly even to slightly favorable. The most important thing is usually to get down a Pithing Needle naming Sneak Attack. Between Karakas and Maze of Ith, Griselbrand is reasonably easy to answer. What really beats us is an Emrakul with haste. Once they see that you're playing Cloudposts, most Sneak & Show players will be very cautious about playing a blind Show & Tell, so Sneak Attack becomes their primary line of attack. Unless you Needle their Sneak Attack (or they Probe you first), a smart opponent will wait until they have Sneak + at least one open red source before playing Show & Tell. I've seen them also bring in Through the Breach for this reason. If they only have one extra red source, Karakas will still stop Emrakul from annihilating your board. If they have multiple red sources, Candelabras + Karakas will still give you some breathing space.

The Krosan Grips are also very important in this matchup. While they won't save you from Sneak Attack with Emrakul, they are still fine to kill the enchantment if they put in Griselbrand. More often, however, you need them because they frequently bring in cards like Blood Moon, Null Rod, and/or Pithing Needles (naming Karakas, Maze, or Expedition Map). Obviously, Oblivion Stone comes in too.

Since I added Ugin after Sneak was mostly replaced by OmniTell, I haven't played the matchup enough to know if he's worth keeping in. On one hand, he kills Blood Moon and a bare Sneak Attack. His +2 ability might actually be very relevant, because they often use Griselbrand to draw down to a low life total, while your Maze or Karakas prevents them from connecting with lifelink. On the other hand, you can't put Ugin in off of their Show & Tell, and he can't come down and immediately kill either Griselbrand or Emrakul (note: killing Griselbrand is actually one of the reasons I have a split between All Is Dust and Ugin).

So for sideboarding, I'd probably end up going down to 60 with:
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Oblivion Stone
-1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -2 Ugin

Good luck, by the way!

Why would you ever play with 14 cards in your SB?

[TheBoozeCube]

Why would you ever play with 14 cards in your SB?

I play 61 in the main. Under the new rules, I can board down to 60 in g2/3 if I have 14 in the board. Essentially, I've just straight moved Tabernacle main for g1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rock Lee]

Out of curiosity Rock why are there 6 "disenchant" effects in your board (3 krosan grip 3 nature's claim). It just seems like a lot, I played just 3 grips in my G/W version but I'm switching over to U/G most likely so I want to know.

It was 100% to deal with omni. Put in a trinisphere and/or trigger and blast the enchantment. I still side in nature's claim often though. Against anything running blood moon, sylvan library, null rod, or that pressures my life total on mostly tapped tops.

[into_play]

And here I was just finally comfortable with hugely hating on the card.

Glad to see omni get completely D-listed as an archetype though.

Shame though. I really feared no deck in the current meta with my current build. See my Top finishes in huge tournaments for the last 5 consecutive events.

I completely agree with this. Although Omni has historically been one of our worst matchups, it was nice that it pushed out a lot of the other combo decks that we somewhat struggled with, allowing us to hone our builds to fight public enemy number one. I was feeling really comfortable with four Grips and two Trinispheres in the board, among the normal counterspells that I always run.

Dig getting banned was the one drastic change that I thought could possibly happen before GP Seattle. So now I am looking to retool my build for what will most likely still be a surprise meta by then. How is everyone expecting the meta to change, and what are you planning to do about it? Based on many people's predictions of the coming meta, my thoughts on the consequences for our deck is as follows:

Less Omnitell - Completely obvious, I know, but for the most part this benefits us. I'm not sure if the deck will vanish entirely, but it will most likely decrease dramatically since so many Omni players had just jumped on the bandwagon and will probably jump ship now that the deck has lost some limbs. Our enchantment hate is not as necessary now.

More Sneak and Show - I've never had too much difficulty facing Sneak and Show, and I certainly like seeing it instead of Omni. Needle effects take care of the Sneak Attack side of their combo, and their Show and Tells are just too dangerous to cast against us. Through the Breach is the only thing they can win with that could blindside you if you don't expect it, so have counters or a Karakas ready for that.

More Death and Taxes - Consequent of more Sneak and Show, this change I am fine with as well. An early Show and Tell - Primeval Titan just wrecks them, and since they aren't blue, a Crop Rotation in response to a Wasteland/Port has no drawback.

More Elves/Storm - I know some combo lovers that had moved to Omnitell for its sheer ease will probably move back to these troublesome strategies for us. To my surprise, a lot of winning Elves lists haven't been including Shaman of the Pack, which I thought would become a mainstay and is a big problem for us (we can't hide across Glacial Chasm from it). These decks strengthening are a negative result of Omnitell weakening.

More BUG Delver/Less Grixis - This is what I am most worried about. Discard is good again, and Liliana can end us before too long. We also don't have a lot of trump cards for the matchup, just cards that can shore up some of our weaknesses against them (I'm thinking Relic for their Goyfs and Deathrites, Carpet of Flowers for their mana denial, Needle effects for Wasteland and Liliana). No blanket answers, although a resolved Ugin should be the most decisive win condition we can drop against them.

More Shardless/Jund - Jund can be difficult, but I see it as very similar to Death and Taxes. ShowTime wrecks them, Crop Rotation tricks them and always works. Like BUG Delver, we don't have a lot of great hate cards though.

This is my latest traditional list:

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul
1 Ulamog (uncertain which one yet)
1 Kozilek

3 Crop Rotation
2 Repeal
4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell

1 Candelabra
2 Engineered Explosives (love this card recently but didn't play it when BUG/Jund were last good. Is this good for those matchups?)
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Diving Top

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm

Sideboard
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Krosan Grip (fewer now without Omni, but still pretty useful against Blood Moons and other things)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (replacing Trinispheres from Omni era; are preemptive Storm hate and work against BUG)
1 Pithing Needle (always seen this as a broad, versatile answer. My main hate for Wasteland, and also great for Liliana and the Lands deck in general)
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Tabernacle

Let me know what your expectations for the new meta are, and how you plan to construct your build. This is how I see the format unfolding, and I think I have all my bases covered with this setup.

[Morden]

I agree with your new meta analysis, but for elves I think the situation is still difficult: with terminus(miracle) as strongest and most solid deck in the format, it's difficult for each deck that relies on creatures. Of course elves gain something from the disappear of DTT, but I think BUG/discarding deck gained more: duress/thoughtseize/tourach risked only to fuel DTT, now they return to their maximum efficiency.

Yesterday I made some games with the BANT version (terminus). I played with burn and elves; win 2-0, 2-1 with burn and 2-0, 2-1, 2-1 with elves.
With burn I won thanks to:
-terminus on swiftspear and goblin guide->slow his menace->wait S&T->emperion->win
-trickbind on rift bolt
-S&T->emperion on third turn
With burn I lost thanks to:
-S&T-> I put emrakul, he put ensnaring bridge. No krosan grip in hand, eidolon is on the battlefield. I tried to search for a krosan with brainstorm, got to much damage and died.
With elves I won thanks to:
-trickbind on behemoth
-trickbind on reclamation sage
-oblivion stone at third turn, wipe all at fourth
-terminus after behemoth
With elves I lost thanks to:
-mulligan to 5, I kept an hand with few lands, S&T, primeval. On his first turn, thoughtseize. gg.
-glacial chasm after behemoth: stay alive for some turns, but with 2 lands less (crop+glacial's effect) I didn't recover in time (while he was making damage with deathrite.....)

Maybe with elves I could side better, putting some flusterstorms against discards. I put oblivion, ugin and tabernacle; he always found the cradle, so tabernacle wasn't so usefull, he succeded to keep alive all the elves and still make game with other lands.
I will change something in sideboard: at the moment I have 2 needle in side, 3 trickbind and 2 needle in main. Too much, I think I will remove 1 needle from side.

[MechTactical]

It’s awfully quite lately on this forum… Is everybody trying to hide their trade secrets? :laugh:
I’m still looking forward to rock’s update of the match-up section and his new build...

Well, I guess it’s up to me to break the ice. I got badly beaten last weekend (25 p tournament). I suppose I made a lot of misplays and the build didn’t feel balanced. In my defence I can only say that it was my first time playing against legacy decks (played only against burn before). I drew with miracles and didn’t even realize I was playing against miracles, until mentor tokens killed me – this should give some insight into my profound knowledge of legacy :eek:. Lost to what I believe was bug and rug (kept low mana hands and totally misplayed trickbind), got screwed over by infect, drew with some sort of death blade (if I’m not mistaken). Though I did win against DnT. Though I have to say all those match-ups seemed very close, probably very winnable, if you know what you're doing...

Anyways I’ve decided to run a heavy SnT package and drop the cute aspects of the build (namely trinket mage). I was also running 25 lands and now moved up to 26. Still not sure about the sideboard options. I’m also hesitating about the number of expedition maps (2 or 3?) and repeals (2 or 3)? Not certain about 2 islands or 3 vesuvas? Any suggestions?

Land (26)

1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Instant (14)

4x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
3x Repeal
4x Trickbind

Artifact (8)

1x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Creature (8)

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Platinum Emperion
4x Primeval Titan

Sorcery (4)

4x Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)

1x All Is Dust
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Force of Will
3x Krosan Grip
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Swan Song

[TimHarding]

First, these posts are funny to look back at regarding how the format changed after TC:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi&p=862359&viewfull=1#post862359

After looking at the SCG top 8, it is easy to see that it is basically the meta from 15 months ago: Sneak, Delver, DnT, Storm, etc. I'm using my list from that time as a basis to move forward with:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi&p=822502&viewfull=1#post822502

Mentor/Pyro/Angler may stick around which will still potentially influence the repeal count, and I will play ulamog 2.0, but other than that, that is a good start. I had a lot of success against the SnT, DnT meta with that list. Needle and Crop rotation return to being VERY strong. Note this is also close to the 2010/2011 original rock lee list, which somehow still endures!

[Neko448]

Yayy, Repeal is good again! I think I want to go 2/2 with Trickbinds and Needles moving forward, and maybe move back towards having FoW in the sb. I'm seeing a lot of Death and Taxes. How does everyone feel about Moment's Peace? When that card is bad, it's really bad, but when it is good, it is Timewalk with flashback, which is absolutely a house. The miracles deck in the recent SCG IQ had no Mentors. Is this an omen in the sky that all Miracles players will fall in pace with? Monastery Mentor does seem a lot worse without the power of DTT. I'm very excited for our deck moving into this new meta. Glad to be back fighting traditional combo rather than having to bend over backwards to interact in a generally futile way with absurd combo pieces.

[Ponders]

Yayy, Repeal is good again! I think I want to go 2/2 with Trickbinds and Needles moving forward, and maybe move back towards having FoW in the sb. I'm seeing a lot of Death and Taxes. How does everyone feel about Moment's Peace? When that card is bad, it's really bad, but when it is good, it is Timewalk with flashback, which is absolutely a house. The miracles deck in the recent SCG IQ had no Mentors. Is this an omen in the sky that all Miracles players will fall in pace with? Monastery Mentor does seem a lot worse without the power of DTT. I'm very excited for our deck moving into this new meta. Glad to be back fighting traditional combo rather than having to bend over backwards to interact in a generally futile way with absurd combo pieces.

I think mentor is going to be a big part of the meta moving forward. That said, call it what it is - blue/white (and sometimes splashing black or red) goblins. Remembering and building up the strategies that work against those types of decks should be considered. Bloodmoon is back in full too.

[Morden]

I always liked repeal, and with the disappear of omnitell it's easier to find a slot for it. I hade 4 terminus, I moved to 3 terminus + 1 glacial chasm; but I always had too much terminus in hand, or drew it when it wan not necessary: I tried 2 terminus + 1 glacial + 1 repeal and I was very satisfied. All of them have the same defensive role (more or less), but they can answer more menaces. Repeal is never a dead card, it can be used on sensei on the worst situation.
I know it seems a waste the white splash in this deck (just for 2 mainboard cards, and not sure about the sideboard....) but terminus is very powerful and synergic in this deck. I won several games only for that card: a lot of players don't expect that card, and play against you as against a "traditional" 12post; that means, try to close the game as soon as possible to avoid titans and eldrazi on the field. This strategy makes the opponent put a lot of menaces/creatures on the field, making a terminus devastating in this situation. Also if the opponent knows that we are playing terminus is good for us: in this situation the opponent is slowed in his aggro tactic, and we know that every slow game favors us.

About the new meta: miracle is absolutely the only dominant deck now. With mentors it is devastanting, and the top8 at Ovino (one of the biggest european eternal tournament) shows this with no doubts.

http://www.ovinotournament.com/legacy-main-event-3-ottobre-2015/

[k_omega]

Interesting, how the Ovino Miracles lists have Mentors but no Blood Moons and the SCG Indianapolis Miracles lists all have Blood Moons but no Mentors. How likely is this to be just a metagame difference as opposed to an indicator of those cards' places in the archetype? Miracles players I've talked to have dismissed Blood Moon as being good against decks where they don't need much help, even after I steamroll them.

[TheBoozeCube]

I've definitely noticed a huge increase in the number of Sneak & Show decks in the MTGO practice room. So that meta prediction seems spot-on so far. Been crushing them consistently. :)

I'm hoping to make it out to play in a local tonight, which will be my first tournament with Ceaseless Hunger replacing Infinite Gyre. I'll let y'all know how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drixx]

I just won small tournament with this list against mentor miracle 2:0 ,Jund 2:1, canada 2:1,4c Shardless agent 2:0 unfortunely i didn't have chance to try new Ulamog just in opening hand with fallowing mulligan scry is great for us ;) trickbind and explosives was the best cards in all matches. i try this one more time and after maybe i remove Ulamog for explosives,another map or trickbind ..

have a nice weekend

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 1
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth 1
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 1
Primeval titan 4

Brainstorm 4
Crop rotation 3
Flusterstorm 2
Repeal 2
Trickbind 1

Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 1

Show and Tell 3

Candelabra of Tawnos 2
Expedition Map 3
Engineered Explosives 1
Pithing Needle 2
Sensei's Divining Top 4

Forest 1
Island 1
Bojuka bog 1
Cavern of Souls 1
Eye of Ugin 1
Glacial Chasm 1
Cloudpost 4
Glimmerpost 4
Karakas 1
Misty Rainforest 4
Tropical Island 4
Vesuva 2

SB:
Dismember 2
Blue elem. Blast 2
Force of will 2
Krosan Grip 3
Engineered Explosives 1
Trickbind 1
Ugin, the spirit Dragon 1
Relic of Progenitus 2
Flusterstorm 1

[TheBoozeCube]

Well, I was tired and played like garbage last night (1-3). Missed obvious lines, made stupid and reckless decisions, etc.. I did, however, get to play a bit with Ulamog 2.0, and he was magnificent. I'm pretty sure he's going to be permanently replacing Infinite Gyre in my list. He was easily the MVP of the two games I managed not to screw up.

Against Miracles, he took out a Mentor and a land. Then he attacked, I bounced him and took out two more lands for the scoop.

Against old-school RUG Delver, I was in the danger zone, facing down 2x Goyf, flipped Delver, and Nimble Mongoose with one Maze. I tutored up Ulamog at EOT, then cast him to take out both Goyfs. My opponent countered Ulamog, but the work he did bought me the turn I needed to make another land drop and cast Emrakul.

I'm very impressed with him so far, especially in the Delver matchup where taking out one Goyf with a countered Ulamog 1.0 wouldn't have saved me, and I didn't have enough mana to cast Kozilek and try to find and resolve a sweeper.

[Pdingo]

Today i will play a BB Usea Tournament in Switzerland Lucerne.
Wish me luck:) After the tournament i do write a report.

[Postman]

Today i will play a BB Usea Tournament in Switzerland Lucerne.
Wish me luck:) After the tournament i do write a report.
Good luck^^

[Morden]

Today i will play a BB Usea Tournament in Switzerland Lucerne.
Wish me luck:) After the tournament i do write a report.

annihilate 'em all!!! :cool:

[Pdingo]

So back !

Top 8ed with Mono G Post

First here's the List:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Explore
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Obstinate Baloth
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone

In the SB i tried 2 Ensnaring Bridges instead of 2 Surgical Extraction.
I'm very happy with the main.

Sadly just 28 people find in the room.
But well 5 Rounds and Top 8 is ok:)

Round 1:

BG Dephts(Bobs, Hexmage etc) 2:0

Game 1: I won close after a hard Wasteland and a hard clock but with a Stirrings i found a Candelabra what i needed for emrakul:)
Game 2: I needle his Wasteland and he's to greedy with the hand and finds not much lands and i win into ulamog;)

Round 2 RUG Delver 2:0

Game 1: He mulligan to 5. Nimbe T1 isn't a hard clock. He double wastelanded me but i have to much lands and i win:)
Game 2: He mulligan again to 5 : Same like g1;)

Round 3 Death and Taxes 2:1

Game 1: A lot Posts and Needle on wasteland wins.
Game 2: He had to much creatures..Thalia, revoker etc.
Game 3: I play T 1 forest, he plays a land with vial then i play Post, he plays wast.. i play crop in rsp into cloud post again.. Play vesuva into krosan grip for he's vial. that was the important point;))) Turn 4 Kozilek:P

Round 4 ID

Round 5 ID

Top 8

quarter against reanimator: 1:2

G1: He wins g1 after a bad misplay.. taped me out with forest>>crop in hand.. Bojuka bog would probably win.. Tidespout Tyrant get me:(
G2: i had to much.. Bridge, needle, karakas, Bojuka bog, maze..
G3: Not much to say.. mulligan to 6 with a ok hand.. also here a T2 Sire of Insanity surprised me and it was GG

Funny Tournament and nice last Testings for Prague:)
A friend played also a 12 Post List but with Green/White (4 StP Main) and a lot gy hate. He top 8ed and played for the Final but lost also against a other Reanimator List:(
But two 12 Post players in top 8:P

Just write down some come comments for questions.

Greets Dingo

[Ponders]

Seeing a surge in that shardless black thing, which hasn't been going well. I'm Back to playing B/G with a typical list. Not so much a problem with hymn, but t2 lili adn a bunch of creatures. Any advice?

[Ehhh]

Stream testing Mono G Post for GP Seattle next month if you guys want to watch. i'll be streaming whenever I get time.

twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh

i'll be on after work 5:30 - 6:00pm (PST)

[fullmetal779]

Ive been pondering on what is the best brew of 12 post to be playing the conclusion im getting too is that you probably want a green with red splash due to match ups you can look at ehhh's list and i feel like its close to where we wanna be with this deck

[maCHOOga]

Ive been pondering on what is the best brew of 12 post to be playing the conclusion im getting too is that you probably want a green with red splash due to match ups you can look at ehhh's list and i feel like its close to where we wanna be with this deck

I have a preliminary list in my deck-building book but never tried it. If you're playing mono-green, there is a relatively low opportunity cost.

I was looking forward to casting through the breach and bonfire of the damned. I think the play style would be vastly different, it would feel more like a glass cannon. Heck you could even try to squeeze in inferno titan somehow.

[mykatdied]

Ive been pondering on what is the best brew of 12 post to be playing the conclusion im getting too is that you probably want a green with red splash due to match ups you can look at ehhh's list and i feel like its close to where we wanna be with this deck

What are you suggesting a red splash for? Just curious as to what red gives us.

Edit: Oh that is what you are going for?

[TimHarding]

Red has been tested here before. One of rock lee's top 8s had bonfire. You can see the discussion about it in the area of this post:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi&p=761885&viewfull=1#post761885

Punishing Fire Engine, Bonfire, Through the Breach, Sudden Shock, reb all tested well. However, it was ultimately concluded that the for UGr, options were not worth the inconsistency, and shaky mana. UG can cover those roles quite well with its current tools while keeping the redundancy and resiliency.

Mono G might have some use for a red splash, but that's a question for BoozeCube to weigh in on.

DRS black splash has always tested the best for me.

[mykatdied]

Red has been tested here before. One of rock lee's top 8s had bonfire. You can see the discussion about it in the area of this post:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi&p=761885&viewfull=1#post761885

Punishing Fire Engine, Bonfire, Through the Breach, Sudden Shock, reb all tested well. However, it was ultimately concluded that the for UGr, options were not worth the inconsistency, and shaky mana. UG can cover those roles quite well with its current tools while keeping the redundancy and resiliency.

Mono G might have some use for a red splash, but that's a question for BoozeCube to weigh in on.

DRS black splash has always tested the best for me.

Way back when I first started playing mono green I tested with deathrite and deeds, some duress in the board. It seemed ok to me. Having the extra natural order fodder because I have always run that in my builds definitely worked out well.

[warfordium]

can anyone suggest how to push a UG list for a metagame with a bunch of stoneblade and merfolk? maindeck needle seems good...

[TheBoozeCube]

I have a preliminary list in my deck-building book but never tried it. If you're playing mono-green, there is a relatively low opportunity cost.

I was looking forward to casting through the breach and bonfire of the damned. I think the play style would be vastly different, it would feel more like a glass cannon. Heck you could even try to squeeze in inferno titan somehow.

Personally, I'm not a fan of splashing another color in Mono-G. I've always seen the deck as essentially colorless splashing green. One of the biggest problems with adding another color is that it requires you to play fetchlands and duals. While fetches are obviously strong with Top, they make you much more vulnerable to Blood Moon; playing more basic forests goes a long way in ensuring that you can consistently cast Krosan Grip, even through a T1 Blood Moon from Painter or Stompy. Fetches also open you up to Stifle, which is especially relevant with RUG making a comeback. Playing with duals also makes you that much weaker to Wasteland, since now you can get color screwed by it too. These downsides might not seem huge, but they get magnified because Mono-G begrudges every land drop that isn't a Locus. When you rarely want to see more than 1-2 green sources in a game, losing one to Stifle/Wasteland is a big deal.

In other words, you need a pretty good reason to dilute the manabase with a "third" color. I don't see anything in red that I'd consider worth it. I've experimented a bit in the past with a blue splash for some countermagic to shore up the combo matchups. But I didn't find that the marginal postboard gains vs combo outweighed the preboard losses in the fair matchups that constitute a larger % of the metagame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zotmaster]

can anyone suggest how to push a UG list for a metagame with a bunch of stoneblade and merfolk? maindeck needle seems good...

Trickbind is not a bad card against either: you can hit the Living Weapon trigger of Batterskull or just stop Stoneforge Mystic from tutoring. You can also stall out the deployment of anything Aether Vial would bring out. Moment's Peace is strong against Merfolk, as is Glacial Chasm. You could also look into even running maindeck Ensnaring Bridge. You can still win through it - optionally still taking all of the turns with Emrakul - by running a planeswalker (either Karn Liberated or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon) and just keeping your hand size down. Either incarnation of Ulamog can also give you an opportunity to remove your own Bridge when needed.

[maCHOOga]

can anyone suggest how to push a UG list for a metagame with a bunch of stoneblade and merfolk? maindeck needle seems good...

Play and resolve Ugin, All is Dust or Oblivion Stone. That should cleanup all their crap.

[warfordium]

I'm going to run ugin in place of emperions and a couple moments peace in the board. I'll also squeeze in the All is Dust as training wheels.

Did anything ever come of Kiora?

[Morden]

ok guys, brainstorming time. I need to finish the sideboard for my ugw/terminus/10post. I will consider all the mathcup; I'd like to have the most general sideboard possible, let's say side at least 5/6 every match, maybe 4 with easy matchups. Let's start with the list:

2 krosan grip
1 pithing needle
2 blue elemental blast
2 surgical extraction
1 relic of progenitus / rest in peace
1 oblivion stone
1 tabernacle
1 maze of ith / swords to plowshares
1 ugin
1 flusterstorm
2 sphere of resistance / trinisphere

matchups side in:
MIRACLE
2 krosan
1 tabernacle
1 ugin
1 flusterstorm
1 oblivion stone

ANT
1 flusterstorm
1 tabernacle
1 relic of progenitus
2 sphere of resistance

ELVES
1 ugin
1 tabernacle
2 sphere of resistance
1 oblivion stone

SNEAK AND SHOW
1 pithing needle
2 krosan grip
2 blue elemental blast
1 maze of ith

BURN
2 blue elemtal blast
1 flusterstorm
2 sphere of resistance

BUG
1 relic of progenitus
2 surgical extraction
1 ugin
1 pithing needle
1 oblivion stone

LANDS
2 surgical extraction
1 maze of ith
1 relic of progenitus
1 pithing needle

FAST COMBO BELCHER/ALL SPELLS
2 surgical extraction
2 sphere of resistance
1 flusterstorm
1 tabernacle
1 pithing needle

INFECT
1 maze of ith
1 pithing needle
.............................HELP!

REANIMATOR
2 surgical extraction
1 relic of progenitus
1 maze of ith
1 pithing needle
1 flusterstorm

DEATH AND TAXES
1 pithing needle
1 ugin
1 tabernacle
1 oblivion stone
2 krosan grip

MUD
2 krosan grip
1 pithing needle
1 oblivion stone
........1 more?

[TheBoozeCube]

INFECT
1 maze of ith
1 pithing needle
.............................HELP!



Grip is solid. You can take out an Inkmoth and they can't Vines in response to save it.

Sphere isn't terrible. It helps slow down their big all-in pump turns. Flusterstorm could serve a similar purpose. Downside is that it doesn't stop them from just attacking you over several turns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Morden]

Grip is solid. You can take out an Inkmoth and they can't Vines in response to save it.

Sphere isn't terrible. It helps slow down their big all-in pump turns. Flusterstorm could serve a similar purpose. Downside is that it doesn't stop them from just attacking you over several turns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Booze, I forgot Inkmoth was an artifact XD. Grip is a little slow, but it can really be usefull, it depends also on the side out.
I forgot also sphere because originally there was trini ahahahahah, but I removed it, too slow, and usually I side in spheres against fast matchups. 3 vs 2 mana is a big difference in those cases.

[Ehhh]

So I've been testing this list with Veteran Explorer and I've been pretty happy with it

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Natural Order
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
3 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Veteran Explorer
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Pithing Needle
2 Trinisphere

3 Wooded Foothills
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Dark Depths
1 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog

Sideboard:
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Dawnstrider

[mykatdied]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=93215

What the hell is this? I can't even begin to imagine why someone would pilot this pile? Obviously every random selection caught his opponents off guard.

Aside from food chain, this deck makes no sense to me what so ever.

[Dr. No Face]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=93215

What the hell is this? I can't even begin to imagine why someone would pilot this pile? Obviously every random selection caught his opponents off guard.

Aside from food chain, this deck makes no sense to me what so ever.

Maybe his plan was to cast his sideboard with Spawnsire of Ulamog (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spawnsire%20of%20Ulamog?printing=16881), and the rest was just to find and ramp into it, with a few smaller plans? I dunno, I found it funny.

[mykatdied]

Maybe his plan was to cast his sideboard with Spawnsire of Ulamog (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spawnsire%20of%20Ulamog?printing=16881), and the rest was just to find and ramp into it, with a few smaller plans? I dunno, I found it funny.

I mean, I get that but it seems like most of the deck is just a random pile of cards your opponent has never seen and is confused about what to expect.

[Morden]

AlternativeEldrazi.deck.....
very stilish, but very weak. A Pyroclasm and everything is gone. Also I don't like the sideboard at all, there are only tutorable cards for Spawnsire, nothing against combo or some particular matchups.

[maCHOOga]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=93215

What the hell is this? I can't even begin to imagine why someone would pilot this pile? Obviously every random selection caught his opponents off guard.

Aside from food chain, this deck makes no sense to me what so ever.

Someone also messaged me about this as well. My take away is SCG Legacy IQ's always have random decklists and should be taken with a grain of salt. You haven't seen crazy/awesome until you look up BUG Affini-POD. Search on SCG for Birthing Pod and Myr Enforcer.

[apple713]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=93215

What the hell is this? I can't even begin to imagine why someone would pilot this pile? Obviously every random selection caught his opponents off guard.

Aside from food chain, this deck makes no sense to me what so ever.


This does look like a pile but look at the interactions, they are all pretty solid. The Eldrazi tokens serve two purposes, blockes for early game to get to late game, or ramp if he is racing. Even with a pyroclasm, you lose 0/1 that can sacrifice for mana. Additionally, cryptic gateway is reusable and interesting.


Spawnsire is pretty much an auto win with the ult. Mana doesnt seem like it would be an issue with crop rotation and gaeas crade. 4 caverns allow it to just RAPE miracles and other control. Thinking of it now its possible he got paired with miracles for the majority of his matches.

The deck has a lot of synergy but I'd expect the powerlevel to be more aligned with modern.

Ill shuffle it up and get back to yall

[mykatdied]

This does look like a pile but look at the interactions, they are all pretty solid. The Eldrazi tokens serve two purposes, blockes for early game to get to late game, or ramp if he is racing. Even with a pyroclasm, you lose 0/1 that can sacrifice for mana. Additionally, cryptic gateway is reusable and interesting.


Spawnsire is pretty much an auto win with the ult. Mana doesnt seem like it would be an issue with crop rotation and gaeas crade. 4 caverns allow it to just RAPE miracles and other control. Thinking of it now its possible he got paired with miracles for the majority of his matches.

The deck has a lot of synergy but I'd expect the powerlevel to be more aligned with modern.

Ill shuffle it up and get back to yall

Thank you. i was contemplating sleeving it up and testing with proxies to see what it felt like. Just seems really off in general. He is definitely all over the ramp into eldrazi, but every piece of that seems fairly weak to sweepers whereas we usually don't care about a pyroclasm or a gorlgari charm.

[apple713]

Didnt get much testing in with it but it plays like a fair deck even though it can do unfair things. Played against sneak and show and shardless bug. Won both matches in 3. Its appears favored against show and trll decksbecause tou het to attack before them. Sneak and show can beat it but didnt get the sneak into emrakul in time.

Against bug he pretty much tore my hand apart but then i topdeck a fatty and swing. It plays like i described. The tokens just block / ramp depending on the situation. They served both purposes in my matches. The 1/5 is decent blocker till you get another eldrazi.

I say it plays like a fair deck because you dont have any real way to get ahead. There isnt card draw outside of ancient stirrings which isnt card advantage, but rather just there so you dont get completely screwed. The game i lost against bug was because he saw 4 wastelands and a toxic deluge and just tempoed me.

With very little testing You can tell the deck isnt optimized but its probably a viable option for people without alot of money. The sideboard posted was in omplete and overkill if they are just there for spawnsire. 4cavens is really nice and i can see it tearing through miracles even more than traditional 12 post.

[Darkenslight]

Didnt get much testing in with it but it plays like a fair deck even though it can do unfair things. Played against sneak and show and shardless bug. Won both matches in 3. Its appears favored against show and trll decksbecause tou het to attack before them. Sneak and show can beat it but didnt get the sneak into emrakul in time.

Against bug he pretty much tore my hand apart but then i topdeck a fatty and swing. It plays like i described. The tokens just block / ramp depending on the situation. They served both purposes in my matches. The 1/5 is decent blocker till you get another eldrazi.

I say it plays like a fair deck because you dont have any real way to get ahead. There isnt card draw outside of ancient stirrings which isnt card advantage, but rather just there so you dont get completely screwed. The game i lost against bug was because he saw 4 wastelands and a toxic deluge and just tempoed me.

With very little testing You can tell the deck isnt optimized but its probably a viable option for people without alot of money. The sideboard posted was in omplete and overkill if they are just there for spawnsire. 4cavens is really nice and i can see it tearing through miracles even more than traditional 12 post.

Indeed. It looks like a pile of junk, but it plays like a potent 'fair' deck. Remembert hat you can use Cryptic Gateway at end of turn. Gateway -> tap two Spawns ->Ulamog seems like a legit plan.

[maCHOOga]

Finally got to cast Nulamog yesterday and consume some permanents. That guy is the real deal. Looking forward to eating things this weekend @ EE3! See some of you there. :-)

[Kelv]

Hello everyone. I've recently built U/G post, and am taking it up to the SCG Open this weekend. Was wondering if I could get a bit of advice/critique on the list - I've been following the thread for a bit, but I'm not sure what to do with the list in an unknown post-dig meta.

List is as such right now:
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Pithing Needle
2x Expedition Map
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Relic of Progenitus
3x Repeal
4x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
3x Trickbind
3x Show and Tell
4x Primeval Titan
2x Platinum Emperion
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4x Tropical Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Forest
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karakas
1x Vesuva
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls

Board:
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Moment's Peace
1x Hydroblast
3x Flusterstorm
1x Arcane Laboratory
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Krosan Grip

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Really no idea what meta will look like, and I don't have quite the experience with the deck to know what is optimal (Especially with the board)

[Zotmaster]

Finally got to cast Nulamog yesterday and consume some permanents. That guy is the real deal. Looking forward to eating things this weekend @ EE3! See some of you there. :-)

Same here. Nulamog was very good when I used him. Got him onto the battlefield against MUD, exiling lands. Two attacks later, my opponent had three cards left in his library, which turned out to be super bad for him.


Hello everyone. I've recently built U/G post, and am taking it up to the SCG Open this weekend. Was wondering if I could get a bit of advice/critique on the list - I've been following the thread for a bit, but I'm not sure what to do with the list in an unknown post-dig meta.

Your basic concept is fine, and play what you're most comfortable with. Nonetheless, I'll throw out a few ideas for you.

When in doubt, expect BUG. I hate Deathrite Shaman, so I rather enjoy running extra Relic of Progenitus to combat them. Looking at your main and sideboard, I think you could get value out of a Trinket Mage or two. I'm not sure you need all of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Moment's Peace and Engineered Explosives either. The latter two in particular mostly accomplish the same job: especially if you add in Trinket Mage, maybe Moment's Peace is a bit more expendable. I also really like Nulamog as I mentioned above.

It's a minor difference, but you probably should replace your Hydroblast with a Blue Elemental Blast. Since we're not worried about building Storm, fueling Delve, or anything like that, at least BEB usually can't have its target changed. It will rarely matter, but you never know.

It's a personal choice, but I like Trinisphere a lot more than I like Arcane Laboratory in general.

[maCHOOga]

Hello everyone. I've recently built U/G post, and am taking it up to the SCG Open this weekend. Was wondering if I could get a bit of advice/critique on the list - I've been following the thread for a bit, but I'm not sure what to do with the list in an unknown post-dig meta.


I also gravitate towards dual vesuva's because you want to vesuva forest/island in a few matchups, dual vesuvas increases your chances of casting primeval titan under a bloodmoon.

I agree with Zot, you want to squeeze a trinketmage in somehow. Also, I would squeeze 1 graffdiggers cage. It's a good hurdle for both storm and elves, both of which aren't easy matchups.

[Fatal]

Question what was your way to sacrifice Veteran Explorer ? Does Red is give you enough support, does black should be your second color to combine Veteran with Cabal Therapies ?

You should look at this thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28391-Primer-Nic-Feat-8Post


So I've been testing this list with Veteran Explorer and I've been pretty happy with it

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Natural Order
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
3 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Veteran Explorer
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Pithing Needle
2 Trinisphere

3 Wooded Foothills
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Dark Depths
1 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog

Sideboard:
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Dawnstrider

[mykatdied]

Question what was your way to sacrifice Veteran Explorer ? Does Red is give you enough support, does black should be your second color to combine Veteran with Cabal Therapies ?

You should look at this thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28391-Primer-Nic-Feat-8Post

I too was curious as for that. He does has 3 pyroclasm and 1 natural order.

[Postman]

I also gravitate towards dual vesuva's because you want to vesuva forest/island in a few matchups, dual vesuvas increases your chances of casting primeval titan under a bloodmoon.

I agree with Zot, you want to squeeze a trinketmage in somehow. Also, I would squeeze 1 graffdiggers cage. It's a good hurdle for both storm and elves, both of which aren't easy matchups.
I don't like two copies of Vesuva in "my" builds. Actually I take Rock Lee's lists and do some minor changes because of differences in play style and meta ;-) But usually there aren't many MU's where you face Blood Moon game 1, and in EVERY MU where it could appear in game 2, I board a mixture of Krosan Grip, Nature's Claim and Swan Song. Under Blood Moon, you should try to destroy it asap. After it's gone, I return to the original game plan and a resolved Titan gets me real Value (life, mana,...) instead of more Mountains and can be pushed into play via Cavern of Souls again even under counterbalance / top with terminus floating :-)

[Blastoderm]

I saw the guy streaming with his cloudpost list with 1x explorer. He would green sun zenith for it as a blocker vs goyfs and stuff. Was pretty sweet. More than 1 is obviously bad.

[TheBoozeCube]

I don't like two copies of Vesuva in "my" builds. Actually I take Rock Lee's lists and do some minor changes because of differences in play style and meta ;-) But usually there aren't many MU's where you face Blood Moon game 1, and in EVERY MU where it could appear in game 2, I board a mixture of Krosan Grip, Nature's Claim and Swan Song. Under Blood Moon, you should try to destroy it asap. After it's gone, I return to the original game plan and a resolved Titan gets me real Value (life, mana,...) instead of more Mountains and can be pushed into play via Cavern of Souls again even under counterbalance / top with terminus floating :-)

Coming from Mono-G here, so I don't know how well this carries over to UG. But I couldn't imagine running less than the full 4x Vesuva. It's one of the most versatile cards in the deck.

It's one of the best lands to hold on to, since you can decide later whether life or mana is what you need. And being able to copy Bog multiple times can be the deciding factor in many games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kirika]

In GU post, I was running 2 Vesuva which are essentially posts 9-10. You really do want to get enough mana to cast a Prime Time.

Is Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger worth running?
Kills 2 things instead of 1 on casting but does not have Annihilator when attacking.

[TheBoozeCube]

Is Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger worth running?
Kills 2 things instead of 1 on casting but does not have Annihilator when attacking.

He is amazing. The casting trigger impacts the board enough to make up for annihilator. It can take out the two biggest threats to stabilize the board or come back from behind, and it can lock up the game when you're ahead. It also comes down MUCH faster at 10, since there are two more ways to cast him naturally off 4 lands (Cloud x3 + Forest, Cloud x2 + Glimmer x2).

While losing annihilator is annoying, his attack trigger is actually quite strong. It usually represents a 2-turn clock, regardless of blocking (with cantrips/fetches, there's probably not much left after you eat 40 cards). It's also arguably stronger than annihilator against Storm. I've lost games to a topdecked Lotus Petal despite untapping with a T3 Infinite Gyre to eat all their land. With this, there's a 1/3 chance that your first attack will eat their 1-of Tendrils. Likewise, with any other deck that runs light on actual win conditions.

Really, the only thing that I'm disappointed in is the lack of a reshuffle clause. But that casting trigger is powerful enough to make up for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fullmetal779]

Has any one seen the titanless post build?
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10672&d=261060&f=LE

[Darkenslight]

Has any one seen the titanless post build?
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10672&d=261060&f=LE

Mono-Eldrazi, you mean?

[fullmetal779]

i suppose thats what it is seems alot like mud eldrazi to me tho

[mifme]

Hi all, I've been playing this deck for a while having a ton of fun and this weekend I made the quarter finals of a 57 man tournament going undefeated in the Swiss, 5 wins and an id.

The deck list I played is below as well as the decks I played against,

Land 25
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Tropical island
4 Misty rainforest
4 Cloud post
4 Glimmer post
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of ugin
1 The tabernacle at pendrall veil
1 Karakas
1 Glacial chasm
1 Cavern of souls

Creatures
4 primeval Titan
1 emrakul the aeons torn
1 ulamog the infinite gyre

Instants
2 repeal
3 crop rotation
4 brainstorm
3 trick bind
1 cyclonic rift

Sorcery
3 show and tell

Planeswalkers
2 ugin the spirit dragon

Artefacts
2 pithing needle
3 expedition map
2 candelabra of tawnos
4 sensei's divining top

Enchantment
1 drop of honey

Sideboard
2 elephant grass
1 pithing needle
2 krosan grip
2 surgical extraction
1 bojuka bog
4 force of will
3 fluster storm

Round 1, shardless bug, win 2-0
Round 2, burn, win 2-0
Round 3, sneak and show, win 2-1
Round 4, Id with a friend (a bit early I know)
Round 5, rug delver, win 2-0
Round 6, miracles, win 2-1

Quarter finals, shardless bug loss 0-2, same 75 as round 1 win but different player.

Trick bind was amazing all day!

Any questions just ask

Mifme.

[maCHOOga]

Played at EE3 this past weekend. Here was the final list I played, basically pretreasure cruise area with minor updates.
1 emrakul, the Aeon's torn
1 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
1 platinum emperion
4 primeval titan
1 trinket mage
3 sensei's divinin
2 expedition map
2 pithing needle
2 candelabra of tawnos
3 show and tell
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
3 force of will
3 repeal
3 crop rotation
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
2 vesuva
4 tropical island
4 misty rainforest
1 forest
1 island
1 bojuka bog
1 Karakas
1 glacial chasm
1 cavern of souls
1 eye of ugin

~sideboard~
2 flusterstorm
2 red elemental blast
1 ugin, the spirit dragon
1 graffdiggers cage
1 relic of progenitors
1 engineered explosives
1 venser, shaper savant
1 Krosan grip
2 sphere of resistance
1 platinum emperion
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 maze of ith

Losses:
Round 1 shardless bug. Thoughtsiezed my ponder to toplock me beat down with double goyfs.
Round 7 tezz. Chalice on X=1 turn 1 both games with force backup.
Round 9 whoopsnogoyfs delver. Game 1 double force double daze. Game 3 double blind flips of delvers including a force.

draw:
Round 2 lands. Went to turns, if I had a 6th turn, ulamog would have done the job. Frustrating but whatever!

ponder was mediocre at best. Going forward I may try an instant speed draw spells to avoid tapping out. Not sure what's the best yet.

[k_omega]

Mifme, how did Drop of Honey perform? Also, what was involved in your win against RUG delver?

MaCHOOga, what led you to play zero board wipes main and how often did you set EE to 2?

[mifme]

Mifme, how did Drop of Honey perform? Also, what was involved in your win against RUG delver?

MaCHOOga, what led you to play zero board wipes main and how often did you set EE to 2?


Well, drop of honey was actually pretty good, it help game 1 against rug delver actually after it resolved on turn 3 with him having 3 nimble mongoose out. The main deck tabernacle and sideboard elephant grass slowed him down enough for me to map into cavern to cast uncounterable Titan where I got 2 glimmer posts to gain 4 then again to gain 12 on attacking.

[into_play]

mifme, what was your reasoning for playing old Ulamog over the new one? The old one is still awesome, but most people have come to the conclusion that the new one is better.

[maCHOOga]

MaCHOOga, what led you to play zero board wipes main and how often did you set EE to 2?

I don't have any room for board wipes lol! Also, what board wipes are even in the colors. If anything, it would be EE main. That card is solid. EE 0 and EE 2 usually.

In my local metagame, "goofy" combo is on the rise. Goofy defined as: Opps all spells, belcher, Spanish inquistion, pox, stax, etc. That being said, I'm running FoW's to basically be a seatbelt so that I have a glimmer of hope game 1. Against any fair deck, I usually board them out game's two and three. The more I think about out though, it may be correct to bring them back in on the draw against the delver decks, despite feeling terrible.

[mifme]

mifme, what was your reasoning for playing old Ulamog over the new one? The old one is still awesome, but most people have come to the conclusion that the new one is better.

Well, i debated this as well, ideally i think i'd prefer the new one too but for one thing, the shuffle effect has been relevant to me several times due to liliana of the veil but after trying trickbind (this was the first time i'd tried them) i think the new one might be better. Maybe play both ?

[TheBoozeCube]

I don't have any room for board wipes lol! Also, what board wipes are even in the colors.

What are these "colors" things of which you speak? You just made Ugin cry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[into_play]

Well, i debated this as well, ideally i think i'd prefer the new one too but for one thing, the shuffle effect has been relevant to me several times due to liliana of the veil but after trying trickbind (this was the first time i'd tried them) i think the new one might be better. Maybe play both ?

Interesting. I too miss the shuffle effect of the old Ulamog, but the thing I like most about the old one is the annihilator. With their annihilator triggers, all the old Eldrazi were immediate threats with just a single swing, whereas the new Ulamog attacking doesn't cripple their board when swinging. This is especially true when you end up Show and Telling in the old Ulamog vs the new one against a board with some threats already out; you could more easily die on the opponent's swingback.

With that being said, the new Ulamog's casting cost and cast triggers are both significantly better, so much that I think I would choose the new one. I would add Kozilek before including both of the Ulamogs, however. Kozilek is pure gas everytime, and can help you dig to a game-changing card like a Crop Rotation when you need one.

[mykatdied]

12 post (61)

Lands 27
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
3 Savannah
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Vesuva
4 Windswept Heath

Creatures 10
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells 24
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crop Rotation
4 Explore
2 Natural Order
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard 15
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Maze of Ith
1 Natural Order
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sacred Ground
3 Sphere of Resistance

Played this tonight at a local event. Finally added sphere of resistance to the board. Got paired against storm round 1 and I actually took game 2 with 2 sphere and at 43 life off glimmerposts, and was 1 cloudpost off from killing him game 3. He had the abrupt decay on time for the sphere to kill me before I could land the threat that won.

Burn was slightly improved thanks to the spheres as well. I drew horribly game 3, game 1 I had a slow start without a green source, would have completely ran away with the game if not for his fireblast in response to a glimmerpost trigger. Game 3 he flooded which allowed him to cast all his spells including 2 eidolon while I stumbled.

Lands was still super easy between needle and sacred ground with rest in peace from the board.

Esper mentor. He had turn 1 probe all 3 games, I had natural tabernacle all 3. Games 2 and 3 sphere + tabernacle pulled a ton of weight.

Editing will be
MAIN
-1 Savannah
+1 Glacial Chasm

SIDEBOARD
-2 Carpet of Flowers
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Rest In Peace
+2 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Circle of Protection: Red
+1 Sphere of Resistance

[into_play]

A quick question about the ANT/Storm matchups:

Suppose you sideboard in multiple Phyrexian Revokers. For the first Revoker played, I would most certainly name Lion's Eye Diamond, since it is one of their most important and explosive cards, as well as enabling their Infernal Tutor. If you were to play a second Revoker, would you name Lion's Eye Diamond again or would you opt for another card, most likely Lotus Petal? The latter choice allows you to shut off more of their deck, but a second one naming LED gives you extra insurance for stopping the most important card, in case they answer it with Chain of Vapor or Abrupt Decay or the like. I was pondering this for the difficult Storm matchups.

[Zotmaster]

A quick question about the ANT/Storm matchups:

Suppose you sideboard in multiple Phyrexian Revokers. For the first Revoker played, I would most certainly name Lion's Eye Diamond, since it is one of their most important and explosive cards, as well as enabling their Infernal Tutor. If you were to play a second Revoker, would you name Lion's Eye Diamond again or would you opt for another card, most likely Lotus Petal? The latter choice allows you to shut off more of their deck, but a second one naming LED gives you extra insurance for stopping the most important card, in case they answer it with Chain of Vapor or Abrupt Decay or the like. I was pondering this for the difficult Storm matchups.

I name LED every single time if I run Revokers for the reasons you mentioned. A single removal spell can reduce you to hoping you're floating some kind of relevant answer on top of your library with Top, and that's really not a situation I like to be in if at all possible. Storm is too resilient for us to try to get cute and name multiple cards: besides, cards like Crop Rotation, Relic/Crypt/Surgical and Trickbind can also answer some of those other cards.

[Hopo]

I don't have any room for board wipes lol! Also, what board wipes are even in the colors.

Are you serious? Oblivion Stone, All is Dust, Ugin, EE come to my mind.

[Postman]

Mr. Smolinski finished 3rd place @SCG Premier IQ with U/G list. Many artifacts, 2 Trinket Mages and 2 copies of Flusterstorm main.

[Rock Lee]

Mr. Smolinski finished 3rd place @SCG Premier IQ with U/G list. Many artifacts, 2 Trinket Mages and 2 copies of Flusterstorm main.

Excellent to see people doing well with their own takes!

I find it interesting that my current Maindeck list is 2 cards apart from this, being 2 maindeck swan songs. Convergent evolution? Or Mr Smolinski has a feed into my computer!

If he is around I am very interested in his matchups.

[MrSmolinski]

Excellent to see people doing well with their own takes!

I find it interesting that my current Maindeck list is 2 cards apart from this, being 2 maindeck swan songs. Convergent evolution? Or Mr Smolinski has a feed into my computer!

If he is around I am very interested in his matchups.

Hey, Smolinski here.

Good to see this thread is still kicking, when I first picked up post a year ago it helped me quite a bit with making the original list.

I too had swan songs main, but found I often wanted a more powerful counter when fighting over show and tells or maps. Swan song also felt awkward with my sideboard chalices. With flusterstorm I still get the copies.

As for the event, I managed to go 5-0-1 in the Swiss, followed by an ID into top 8. Most of my matchups fell into the "favorable but scary" camp. In order, I played against Standstill Merfolk, Miracles, Shardless Bug (draw), D&T, Chalice Merfolk, and Burn. The top 8 was littered with favorable matchups, with the only two decks I was unhappy to see being Aggro Loam and Aluren. Unfortunately, Aluren blew me out of the water in the semifinals.

Typing all this on my phone, will be happy to answer questions once I get back on a proper keyboard.

[maCHOOga]

So I think I played against pox for the first time ever this evening. Ok eldrazi wizards, what is the plan against sinkhole into hymn into bitter blossom into nether void? I don't think I've ever got Rick rolled as bad as I did tonight. The matchup seemed abysmal, at best.

[Darkenslight]

So I think I played against pox for the first time ever this evening. Ok eldrazi wizards, what the plan against sinkhole into hymn into bitter blossom into nether void? I don't think I've ever got Rick rolled as bad as I did tonight. The matchup seemed abysmal, at best.

Avoid Fate?

[kingtk3]

Avoid Fate?

It only targets Sinkhole; spell pierce or swan song are better because they hit all the aforementioned spells.

[Hopo]

So I think I played against pox for the first time ever this evening. Ok eldrazi wizards, what the plan against sinkhole into hymn into bitter blossom into nether void? I don't think I've ever got Rick rolled as bad as I did tonight. The matchup seemed abysmal, at best.

Pithing Needle for Liliana and Wasteland, Flusterstorms for Sinkhole/discard/Smallpox.

[PetesMcskeets]

Let them get greedy with liliana +1, repeal in response, make them cry.

[mykatdied]

Tefei's Response, Sacred Ground, Draw lots of land, show and tell - primetime. Pox is terrible against 12 post. When I was running pox, I would rather play against omni-tell, storm, etc. Show and tell into Titan is nigh unwinnable.

[moseby]

So I think I played against pox for the first time ever this evening. Ok eldrazi wizards, what is the plan against sinkhole into hymn into bitter blossom into nether void? I don't think I've ever got Rick rolled as bad as I did tonight. The matchup seemed abysmal, at best.

Play Nic Fit?

[mykatdied]

We play more land than even pox does, the UG players have access to show and tell which can be really tough for a pox player to come back from if you show in a titan. Always go for titan off show if you have the option. I have been on the wrong side of that play way too many times to count. You have to remember that pox generally has an extremely slow clock with very little card advantage or card selection. You have access to brainstorm, map, show and tell to more than make up for any type of advantage they may get while they struggle to close a game. Gaining even 5 life off of glimmerposts can buy you so much time when you are getting beaten by a lone factory, scroll or nether spirit. Some times pox will get lucky and your top decks will be shit, but most of the time pox is slow enough and lacks the card selection to actually keep you down long enough to kill you.

[maCHOOga]

Play Nic Fit?

Don't worry, I got the prosbloom nicfit black vise deck out of my system already. Yeah that happened....

After everyones feedback, I feel like I boarded completely boarded incorrectly, but that's what the weekly events are for.

For all those heading to GP SeaTac, may the odds be ever in your favor!

[mykatdied]

Don't worry, I got the prosbloom nicfit black vise deck out of my system already. Yeah that happened....

After everyones feedback, I feel like I boarded completely boarded incorrectly, but that's what the weekly events are for.

For all those heading to GP SeaTac, may the odds be ever in your favor!

How did you board if I may ask?

[edk]

Obstinate Baloth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205075) is a very good option against Liliana/HTT decks.

[maCHOOga]

How did you board if I may ask?

- 3 force of will
+1 relic of progenitors
+1 engineered explosives
+1 venser, shaper savant

Failed to bring in flusterstorms & krosan grip. Likewise, I'm ready to start playing Flusterstorm over FoW main...I just gotta find one more. Lol

[mykatdied]

- 3 force of will
+1 relic of progenitors
+1 engineered explosives
+1 venser, shaper savant

Failed to bring in flusterstorms & krosan grip. Likewise, I'm ready to start playing Flusterstorm over FoW main...I just gotta find one more. Lol

Out of the things you boarded I'm not a fan of venser. Mostly just because 1 Wasteland can keep you off double blue and he dies to scroll. Which may or may not be relevant. Ee is great and flusterstorm is nice as well. If you have spell pierce that usually gets there. grip is likely better than venser and that should probably come in.

[Rock Lee]

I have been having great success with gitaxian probe, repeal, pithing needle, ugin main.

List posted after Saturday when I have a local event

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Are people moving away from Trinkbind and back to Pithing Needle post-dig ban? They both have their advantages, and it's especially nice to have trickbind against wasteland blue decks. However, I usually find (with delver decks in particular) if they have a wasteland in their opener, they will try to use it as soon as possible- within reason. So the fact that trickbind costs 2 and not 1 is a big deal, especially when you don't have a crop rotation. Honestly I never seem to draw trickbind at the right times (right after getting wastelanded or in matchups where it's irrelevant) so I suppose it's given me a personal bias against the card. I think I'm probably going back to needle.

Unfortunately there's a lot of RUG delver in my meta and they bring in ancient grudge for needle. I haven't found a good way to win the RUG, and even BUG delver matchups. Relic of Progenitus pulls some weight, but last Wednesday I drew two of them while I got double wastelanded and he flipped 2 delvers. I was super dead. Repeal buys you a turn against delver, and that's not enough so they usually wind up killing me anyway. I've tried dismember but the 4 life loss is liability and you're really just playing into their hands. After that it becomes easier for them to bolt/deathrite you out. Does anybody have some sideboard tech for Delver decks?

There's something I wanted to question (I searched the thread but didn't come up with anything about this), and that's the usage of Brainstorm over Ponder. Yes, I get that Brainstorm is the sacred cow of the format and that you have to play it if you're playing blue etc. However, in a deck with anywhere from 8-12 shuffle effects (5 more if you count Primeval titan and eye but that's really stretching it) I've found it to be an underwhelming card. It's usually just draw 3, put two back... then draw those two anyway on your next two turns. That's great if it helps you sequence your turns a little bit better but not as good as ponder in my opinion. Most of the time to get your blue source of mana you have to use your only fetch, so you usually wont have a spare misty for the shuffle effect. Expedition map I would count as a legitimate shuffle effect, but there's no guarantee the time you want to brainstorm coincides with the time you want to crack map. There's reasons for doing one or the other and not necessarily both one after the other for the shuffle. Perhaps you want to wait on cracking the map until you get more information. There's a thousand different reasons for wanting to hold a brainstorm. That brings us to crop rotation. Crop Rotation is a miserable card but a necessary evil. It's something I rarely cast against blue decks unless I know they have no countermagic, I'll win if it resolves, or am responding to a wasteland. Crop rotation is something that usually rots in my hand against blue decks unless I'm about to die and am forced to do something. I don't run crop rotation out there to get two for oned/stone rained just because I wanted a shuffle effect for my Brainstorm.

So I hope I've made a decent case against Brainstorm in this specific deck. Maybe someone could illuminate me as to why it is the cantrip of choice in the deck. Yes, I get there are plenty of clunkers you don't want to draw in specific matchups, but the shuffle effect is not a sure thing a majority of the time.

[Zotmaster]

Are people moving away from Trinkbind and back to Pithing Needle post-dig ban? They both have their advantages, and it's especially nice to have trickbind against wasteland blue decks. However, I usually find (with delver decks in particular) if they have a wasteland in their opener, they will try to use it as soon as possible- within reason. So the fact that trickbind costs 2 and not 1 is a big deal, especially when you don't have a crop rotation. Honestly I never seem to draw trickbind at the right times (right after getting wastelanded or in matchups where it's irrelevant) so I suppose it's given me a personal bias against the card. I think I'm probably going back to needle.

Trickbind has been my pet card for a very long time. I personally favor it for three reasons: split second, having hits in virtually all matches, and the fact that it betrays no information until used. Especially on the play, hitting a fetch against a tempo deck can be back breaking. It's a much more reliable out Game 1 against Storm. It can Time Walk a Sneak and Skill player. It stops Craterhoof Behemoth. And so on. And until it's used, it's an unknown card in your hand that your opponent has to think about.

Of course, Pithing Needle has its advantages too. It can come down early and it just continually stops whatever you need it to stop. Its application isn't quite as broad, but it typically lasts longer. The downside is that it gives your opponent information to play around, and your opponent can also specifically bring in cards to address it.

I'm not you and I don't play like you, but if you find Wasteland to be constantly blowing you out, look at some of your early keeps and decisions. Pithing Needle is much stronger on the draw than on the play against an unknown opponent. If you're slamming Needle on the first turn and blind-naming Wasteland, you're taking a huge risk both in guessing wrong and something like turn 1 Sensei's Divining Top is generally much stronger. Likewise, if you're leading with turn 1 Cloudpost on the draw, you're also making a big mistake, as your opponent can Wasteland you and still develop a board (especially true with BUG). I have a love-hate relationship with Needle in general, but unless you absolutely know your opponent, you probably shouldn't be playing it until your second turn anyway, at which point Trickbind is also live.

There are also considerations on what else is in your deck. As an example, with a Trinket Mage package, Needle is more appealing. Your mileage may vary.


Unfortunately there's a lot of RUG delver in my meta and they bring in ancient grudge for needle. I haven't found a good way to win the RUG, and even BUG delver matchups. Relic of Progenitus pulls some weight, but last Wednesday I drew two of them while I got double wastelanded and he flipped 2 delvers. I was super dead. Repeal buys you a turn against delver, and that's not enough so they usually wind up killing me anyway. I've tried dismember but the 4 life loss is liability and you're really just playing into their hands. After that it becomes easier for them to bolt/deathrite you out. Does anybody have some sideboard tech for Delver decks?

Elephant Grass, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Engineered Explosives (often with Trinket Mage), Maze of Ith, and any sweepers or stalls from Moment's Peace to All is Dust to Ugin, the Spirit Dragon are all considerations. Alternatively, a little extra countermagic can work, as especially RUG falls hard to pretty much any creature you put into play off a Show and Tell.


There's something I wanted to question (I searched the thread but didn't come up with anything about this), and that's the usage of Brainstorm over Ponder. Yes, I get that Brainstorm is the sacred cow of the format and that you have to play it if you're playing blue etc. However, in a deck with anywhere from 8-12 shuffle effects (5 more if you count Primeval titan and eye but that's really stretching it) I've found it to be an underwhelming card. It's usually just draw 3, put two back... then draw those two anyway on your next two turns. That's great if it helps you sequence your turns a little bit better but not as good as ponder in my opinion. Most of the time to get your blue source of mana you have to use your only fetch, so you usually wont have a spare misty for the shuffle effect. Expedition map I would count as a legitimate shuffle effect, but there's no guarantee the time you want to brainstorm coincides with the time you want to crack map. There's reasons for doing one or the other and not necessarily both one after the other for the shuffle. Perhaps you want to wait on cracking the map until you get more information. There's a thousand different reasons for wanting to hold a brainstorm. That brings us to crop rotation. Crop Rotation is a miserable card but a necessary evil. It's something I rarely cast against blue decks unless I know they have no countermagic, I'll win if it resolves, or am responding to a wasteland. Crop rotation is something that usually rots in my hand against blue decks unless I'm about to die and am forced to do something. I don't run crop rotation out there to get two for oned/stone rained just because I wanted a shuffle effect for my Brainstorm.

So I hope I've made a decent case against Brainstorm in this specific deck. Maybe someone could illuminate me as to why it is the cantrip of choice in the deck. Yes, I get there are plenty of clunkers you don't want to draw in specific matchups, but the shuffle effect is not a sure thing a majority of the time.

I know Tim Harding used to run Ponder alongside Brainstorm, but I can't imagine very many reasons to take out Brainstorm short of running BoozeCube's list. Don't forget that Brainstorm also has synergy with Top: sometimes you don't have to draw those cards again even without a shuffle.

Also think about the instant-speed aspect of Brainstorm. You can obviously do it on your opponent's turn. You can use it to hide key spells from discard or Gitaxian Probe. Also think about how many blue and green sources you see in a game. You might only have a Locus or two and a single Trop as a colored source in the early game. If you Ponder, your opponent knows your ability to interact that turn is entirely limited to whatever you currently have on the battlefield. Wasteland is now live. Discard probably resolves, or at the very least is going to cost you two cards. For a combo deck, the gates are open, your shields are down.

Your point on Crop Rotation is well-taken, and is actually another really good reason to run Brainstorm, as it's the only way to safely get multiples out of your hand. Nonetheless, here are some other things you can try with the card:

1. With a Show and Tell in hand and an extra colored source, try rotating to see if you can draw out a counterspell. If it resolves, get a locus or Eye. Regardless, try to Show next turn.
2. Try to draw out counters/raise Storm count for a surprise Flusterstorm. Say your opponent casts something threatening. Respond with a Crop Rotation. Depending on the opponent, I've had this response draw out a counterspell. This might mean three Flusterstorms, and if the threat your opponent cast was an instant or sorcery, you may be able to counter both spells.
3. With excess Loci, skip the Titan path and go get Eye.
4. If you're really, really hurting, it's a shuffle effect if you have extra colored sources lying around.

As always, your mileage may vary. In any case, the best bet is to look hard at your opening plays as well as the other cards that are around these other, seemingly innocuous card choices.

[bobxxxbob]

How do you guys feel about the new commander card Anachrorage in the sideboard in place of Moment's Peace?
Could be awesome against random Empty the Warrens.

Lähetetty minun D6603 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Trickbind has been my pet card for a very long time. I personally favor it for three reasons: split second, having hits in virtually all matches, and the fact that it betrays no information until used. Especially on the play, hitting a fetch against a tempo deck can be back breaking. It's a much more reliable out Game 1 against Storm. It can Time Walk a Sneak and Skill player. It stops Craterhoof Behemoth. And so on. And until it's used, it's an unknown card in your hand that your opponent has to think about.

Of course, Pithing Needle has its advantages too. It can come down early and it just continually stops whatever you need it to stop. Its application isn't quite as broad, but it typically lasts longer. The downside is that it gives your opponent information to play around, and your opponent can also specifically bring in cards to address it.

I'm not you and I don't play like you, but if you find Wasteland to be constantly blowing you out, look at some of your early keeps and decisions. Pithing Needle is much stronger on the draw than on the play against an unknown opponent. If you're slamming Needle on the first turn and blind-naming Wasteland, you're taking a huge risk both in guessing wrong and something like turn 1 Sensei's Divining Top is generally much stronger. Likewise, if you're leading with turn 1 Cloudpost on the draw, you're also making a big mistake, as your opponent can Wasteland you and still develop a board (especially true with BUG). I have a love-hate relationship with Needle in general, but unless you absolutely know your opponent, you probably shouldn't be playing it until your second turn anyway, at which point Trickbind is also live.

As always, your mileage may vary. In any case, the best bet is to look hard at your opening plays as well as the other cards that are around these other, seemingly innocuous card choices.

Ok, thanks for the constructive reply. Thanks for the tips too, I don't have a tabernacle but I can for sure try elephant grass. Another card I've considered is drop of honey, but the expense of the card is driving me away from it because it's not a sure bet. I run 4 repeal and 2 moment's peace right now.

Trickbind also increases the blue count for force of will, another thing in its favor.

As far as wasteland is concerned, I'm usually not running my cloudposts out there immediately unless I know they don't play wasteland. Sometimes you have to make your land drops though, the deck needs lots of mana and you can't just hold lands forever fearing wasteland. I'm doing what I can to not get wastelanded out, but sometimes they have multiple or I don't draw my answers. Then the game becomes pretty tough. I'm still new to the U/G version so there's a lot to learn. I've had to mulligan quite a bit (openers with glacial chasm, vesuva with nothing to copy, and eye) and I'm still learning the deck.

[caw_86]

John Kassari 9-0, could he possibly be on 12 post

[Emrakul503]

John Kassari 9-0, could he possibly be on 12 post

GW post. Saw him crush a painter player in the 9th round and moonwalk away from the table. It was amazing.

[Hencules]

GW post. Saw him crush a painter player in the 9th round and moonwalk away from the table. It was amazing.

I've been following his daily twelve post stream for weeks now. It's glorious, he has such a streamlined list. I've completed the same 75 it works like a charm.

[chrisdiedforyou]

I've been following his daily twelve post stream for weeks now. It's glorious, he has such a streamlined list. I've completed the same 75 it works like a charm.

Mind posting this list.

[drude1]

I played G/W Post in the GP Legacy side event yesterday and went undefeated. I think G/W is really strong. Although admittedly, I've never played the U/G version.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Emrakul503]

I played G/W Post in the GP Legacy side event yesterday and went undefeated. I think G/W is really strong. Although admittedly, I've never played the U/G version.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let's see the list! Hoping to trade in my other deck for it today.

[mykatdied]

Let's see the list! Hoping to trade in my other deck for it today.

I think he posted a page or 2 back with his list. Username ehhh

[drude1]

My list is much different than Ehhhhh's. Although I do like a lot of what he is doing as well. I just don't like Oracles. Anyway, this is what I am playing:

4 X Primeval Titan
1 X Kosilek
1 X new Ulamog
1 X Emrakul
4 X crop rotation
4 X expedition map
2 X candelabra
3 X pithing needle
4 X top
1 X ancient stirrings
1 X oblivion stone
4 X terminus
2 X Ugin
4 X cloudpost
4 X glimmerpost
2 X vesuva
4 X forest
4 X windswept heath
1 X tabernacle
1 X maze of ith
1 X glacial chasm
1 X bojuka bog
1 X thespians stage
1 X karakas
2 X Savannah
1 X cavern of souls
1 X eye of Ugin

SB
2 X grafdiggers cage
3 X mindbreak trap
3 X Canonist
4 X leyline of sanctity
3 X krosan grip

I would like to incorporate the green sun's zenith so would maybe shave a couple of the one of's and 1-2 maps. I had cages in SB for grave and elf hate but would consider changing those to surgical, as I had a hard time with wasteland + Loam. Otherwise, this deck performs really well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mykatdied]

John Kassari's list, about half way down

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/day-1-undefeated-decklists-2015-11-08

[Morden]

My list is much different than Ehhhhh's. Although I do like a lot of what he is doing as well. I just don't like Oracles. Anyway, this is what I am playing:

4 X Primeval Titan
1 X Kosilek
1 X new Ulamog
1 X Emrakul
4 X crop rotation
4 X expedition map
2 X candelabra
3 X pithing needle
4 X top
1 X ancient stirrings
1 X oblivion stone
4 X terminus
2 X Ugin
4 X cloudpost
4 X glimmerpost
2 X vesuva
4 X forest
4 X windswept heath
1 X tabernacle
1 X maze of ith
1 X glacial chasm
1 X bojuka bog
1 X thespians stage
1 X karakas
2 X Savannah
1 X cavern of souls
1 X eye of Ugin

SB
2 X grafdiggers cage
3 X mindbreak trap
3 X Canonist
4 X leyline of sanctity
3 X krosan grip

I would like to incorporate the green sun's zenith so would maybe shave a couple of the one of's and 1-2 maps. I had cages in SB for grave and elf hate but would consider changing those to surgical, as I had a hard time with wasteland + Loam. Otherwise, this deck performs really well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like Terminus in a deck like post, it's a great defensive card that a lot of time is better than glacial chasm. What do you think to add a Scroll Rack to remove a useless terminus in hand? I tried it in the past with my gw build, 3 sensei + 1 scroll, it was not bad.

[Ehhh]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/day-1-undefeated-decklists-2015-11-08

This is the List - Unfortunately I only made 41st place or something like that (had a rough day 2 losing to > 2 Shardless Bug in game 3, 4c Delver w/ PoP [amazing start vs garbage start] and then losing to Death and Taxes w/ Magus of the Moon [Also should've won game 1 with 7 top looks to find 5 or 6 outs and no land in my deck]

I'll answer any questions tomorrow i just got home and i'm going to watch some football after work :P

my buddy also was undefeated [Fred] with the Goblin Moon Deck we dodged each other throughout the tournament .. very lucky lol

[Ehhh]

GW post. Saw him crush a painter player in the 9th round and moonwalk away from the table. It was amazing.


LoL hell YAAAA !!! I crop rotated every time he targeted my forest with PyroBlast hahaha at least 3 times, and Painter + Ugin combo.. later land :D he got Ugin'd twice hahaa

[Postman]

Is there a chance to watch your match in round 10 (?) against BUG again? Stream quality wasn't perfect, but it looked like you had 5 lands in play, All is Dust in Hand, played Eye of Ugin and passed the turn...?

[Ehhh]

Is there a chance to watch your match in round 10 (?) against BUG again? Stream quality wasn't perfect, but it looked like you had 5 lands in play, All is Dust in Hand, played Eye of Ugin and passed the turn...?

yeah I messed up, I think but he still had FoW the entire time (was told) forsure a punt. but I think he drew above average in games 2 and 3 and my draws were sloppy and slow, like pulse on leyline g2 was insane (almost beat a lilly ulti)

[maCHOOga]

Unfortunately there's a lot of RUG delver in my meta and they bring in ancient grudge for needle. I haven't found a good way to win the RUG, and even BUG delver matchups. Relic of Progenitus pulls some weight, but last Wednesday I drew two of them while I got double wastelanded and he flipped 2 delvers. I was super dead. Repeal buys you a turn against delver, and that's not enough so they usually wind up killing me anyway. I've tried dismember but the 4 life loss is liability and you're really just playing into their hands. After that it becomes easier for them to bolt/deathrite you out. Does anybody have some sideboard tech for Delver decks?

There's something I wanted to question (I searched the thread but didn't come up with anything about this), and that's the usage of Brainstorm over Ponder. Yes, I get that Brainstorm is the sacred cow of the format and that you have to play it if you're playing blue etc. However, in a deck with anywhere from 8-12 shuffle effects (5 more if you count Primeval titan and eye but that's really stretching it)...


RUG delver is a tricky animal, you always need to play around stifle when fetching. Cracking fetches early for the basics is the safest plan. Likewise, there is a huge advantage to bojuka bogging them. All you need to do is resolve a primetime and they can't win. They have 0 ways to actively kill it when in play, other than burning you out. They are going to bring in Krosan grips and ancient grudges against you. Also, sometimes they have a delver nut draw, it happens. Another way to combat them is to flusterstorm their cantrips. One early timed counterspell can buy you enough time to make it to the end game. As mentioned, Ugin can get them too, but he can also be stifled! honestly the best way to beat them is to playtest against it, or swap decks with a rug delver play and play some games. You will get a better understanding on how their deck functions if you actually play with it.

I've been playing 2x ponder for quite sometime to help lower the brainstorm/toplock scenarios. I had a discussion at EE3 and I don't think it's what we want. The sorcery speed of it opens you up to a wasteland. I feel that at the core, this deck wants to be: trinkets, big idiots, show and tell and instants. I loved playing 1x fact or fiction but it doesn't work well with the new Ulamog. The other thing to note is playing ponders, only adds to pain caused by chalice of the void.

[Postman]

He absolutly drew great! :-( But the games were still good, and 9-0 on day 1: great performance! :-))) congrats

[Emrakul503]

LoL hell YAAAA !!! I crop rotated every time he targeted my forest with PyroBlast hahaha at least 3 times, and Painter + Ugin combo.. later land :D he got Ugin'd twice hahaa

I was the black guy with the curly hair wearing all black standing over your shoulder all weekend. Circle of Protection + Leyline of Sanctity vs Burn was also disgusting

[Ehhh]

I was the black guy with the curly hair wearing all black standing over your shoulder all weekend. Circle of Protection + Leyline of Sanctity vs Burn was also disgusting

Ya man I remember seeing you.. I was ready for this tournament, just had a tough Day 2 - I think I made a few mistakes that didn't cost me the game so i'm happy overall! Just lost to heart of the cards :)

I'll a guide for this list and explain why I play the cards I do instead of the others. Later! Also stream it at twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh after work

[maCHOOga]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/day-1-undefeated-decklists-2015-11-08

This is the List - Unfortunately I only made 41st place or something like that (had a rough day 2 losing to > 2 Shardless Bug in game 3, 4c Delver w/ PoP [amazing start vs garbage start] and then losing to Death and Taxes w/ Magus of the Moon [Also should've won game 1 with 7 top looks to find 5 or 6 outs and no land in my deck]

I'll answer any questions tomorrow i just got home and i'm going to watch some football after work :P

my buddy also was undefeated [Fred] with the Goblin Moon Deck we dodged each other throughout the tournament .. very lucky lol

So why no Candelabras? Is it due to the overadundance of shardless bug and abrupt decay?

[Ehhh]

So why no Candelabras? Is it due to the overadundance of shardless bug and abrupt decay?

Candle is only good with repeal imo, and it does nothing without cloudpost in the deck. Not a fan in this build but you can try it :P (abrupt decay targets is a thing aswell)

[Postman]

Ya man I remember seeing you.. I was ready for this tournament, just had a tough Day 2 - I think I made a few mistakes that didn't cost me the game so i'm happy overall! Just lost to heart of the cards :)

I'll a guide for this list and explain why I play the cards I do instead of the others. Later! Also stream it at twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh after work
Would like to watch the stream, can you do a small hint when it's online? And maybe a few thoughts for the combo - MUs?

[Ehhh]

Would like to watch the stream, can you do a small hint when it's online? And maybe a few thoughts for the combo - MUs?

Small hint ? I'm not sure what you mean but yeah i'll explain it tonight if you join in

[Postman]

Small hint ? I'm not sure what you mean but yeah i'll explain it tonight if you join in
Not sure, is it an online stream or will it stay avaible to watch later as well? "Small hint" like it will be on in 2 hours from now on or so ;-)

[Ehhh]

Not sure, is it an online stream or will it stay avaible to watch later as well? "Small hint" like it will be on in 2 hours from now on or so ;-)

i work until 6pm today so maybe 7pm (PST)

[Rock Lee]

After repeated tries with UG, UR, UGR, UW, UGW, UWR, in the current meta, I am experimenting with -U builds. much tragedy.

[mykatdied]

After repeated tries with UG, UR, UGR, UW, UGW, UWR, in the current meta, I am experimenting with -U builds. much tragedy.

UG seems optimal in combo heavy metas, but to be less optimal in metas full of tempo and midrange control

[maCHOOga]

Looks like my local Tuesday meta is also gravitating towards combo as well.
Of the 14-16 people, there were 3-4 burn decks? Beatable but Ughh!

I also played against D&T yesterday. Game 3, I got my primetime EOT STP'ed into a cataclysm.... double Ughh. {I didn't recovered from that one.}

On a bright note, the amount of times where I hard cast Nulamog and my opponent just quits on the spot keeps increasing.

[Ehhh]

i'll be on today / right now

[Emrakul503]

After repeated tries with UG, UR, UGR, UW, UGW, UWR, in the current meta, I am experimenting with -U builds. much tragedy.

What did UR look like? I am slowly picking up the cards for this deck, owning Volcanics but no Trops

[mykatdied]

i'll be on today / right now

I am watching some coverage right now from your round 10 vs Shardless. Did I notice after liliana ultimate, you had 2 mana floating and you crop rotate, then he goes straight to combat and attacks you? Did they not let you go back to use the second mana floating and top again? I noticed you seemed to be arguing and ended up having to use stage. Just curious what happened there. Your opponent seemed sketchy in some of his actions and play style.

[Ehhh]

I am watching some coverage right now from your round 10 vs Shardless. Did I notice after liliana ultimate, you had 2 mana floating and you crop rotate, then he goes straight to combat and attacks you? Did they not let you go back to use the second mana floating and top again? I noticed you seemed to be arguing and ended up having to use stage. Just curious what happened there. Your opponent seemed sketchy in some of his actions and play style.

ya you're correct because I picked up my pen the judge wouldn't let it go back.. but it slightly costed the game because I couldve eot crop rotated if I used thespian's colorless.. i was upset because he just turned them sideways I had effects.. obvy (should've appealed honestly)

I don't believe I acknowledged that we changed phases either

[MGB]

How have you guys been liking the new Ulamog in this deck?

[Skriger]

How have you guys been liking the new Ulamog in this deck?

I run U/G version of 12 post and have been liking him a lot. I have replaced Kozilek with him. Some people would argue that losing Annihilator ability and reshuffle isn't worth it but I always argue that our creatures are usually targeted by exiling spells anyways. The way I see him is pay 8 to exile 3 permanents.

[mykatdied]

ya you're correct because I picked up my pen the judge wouldn't let it go back.. but it slightly costed the game because I couldve eot crop rotated if I used thespian's colorless.. i was upset because he just turned them sideways I had effects.. obvy (should've appealed honestly)

I don't believe I acknowledged that we changed phases either

He was a quick player and his ability to draw and shuffle fast were commendable but in situations like that I find myself paying more attention to me opponent because people that play like that try drawing extra cards if you aren't slowing them down by asking cards in hand consistently to try and catch them.

One other thing I noticed. You had a dust in hand and 5 mana with eye of Ugin you played. Why not cast it there looking at his jace, goyf, deathrite etc? You ended up losing against that board. Just curious if you were more interested in your play of crop rotating and using stage ability on wasteland to get stage/depths online. Just seemed sketchy not to try and wipe the board there.

[Postman]

He was a quick player and his ability to draw and shuffle fast were commendable but in situations like that I find myself paying more attention to me opponent because people that play like that try drawing extra cards if you aren't slowing them down by asking cards in hand consistently to try and catch them.

One other thing I noticed. You had a dust in hand and 5 mana with eye of Ugin you played. Why not cast it there looking at his jace, goyf, deathrite etc? You ended up losing against that board. Just curious if you were more interested in your play of crop rotating and using stage ability on wasteland to get stage/depths online. Just seemed sketchy not to try and wipe the board there.
Read post 4238, please.

[mykatdied]

Read post 4238, please.

There is no 4238 post yet. Unless I'm missing something about your post being 4219.

I see. 4198. Yeah, I'm still not sure how you don't just drop dust there. If it gets countered oh well. You're at 5 mana with an eye of ugin. If you get wasted you're down to 4 mana with an eye which is about as useless as tits on a bull. On that board state your opponent isn't going to waste you unless you're threatening something. If he forces dust, then he has used force and anything else you draw is at least live at that point and if he uses waste then you are open to play the dark depths in hand and be able to actually do something. When time is a factor against shardless you're better off making a move before they get value from say a shardless or get to suspend and cast ancestral.

[k_omega]

I (playing Gw) have been finding Hangarback Walker excellent against Shardless, and to a lesser extent against nonwhite Delver. It blocks, then blocks some more while providing a means (thopters) to pressure planeswalkers without expending a needle. Not to mention that it makes Liliana awkward. With Eye and 9 mana it provides an on-the-spot blocker unlike every other Eye target in the deck under those conditions.

Has anyone tested with Solemn Simulacrum? Bridging the gap from ~4 mana to Titan/Zenith levels has been a sticking point in many of my games and Oracle is less consistent than I'd really like. Solemn also helps while under Blood Moon, draws a card, and shuffles.

[mykatdied]

I (playing Gw) have been finding Hangarback Walker excellent against Shardless, and to a lesser extent against nonwhite Delver. It blocks, then blocks some more while providing a means (thopters) to pressure planeswalkers without expending a needle. Not to mention that it makes Liliana awkward. With Eye and 9 mana it provides an on-the-spot blocker unlike every other Eye target in the deck under those conditions.

Has anyone tested with Solemn Simulacrum? Bridging the gap from ~4 mana to Titan/Zenith levels has been a sticking point in many of my games and Oracle is less consistent than I'd really like. Solemn also helps while under Blood Moon, draws a card, and shuffles.

Hangarback Walker is quite an interesting idea that I thought of but never really decided to follow up on. A few reasons why:
1. Terminus - Miracles is one of the most popular decks currently in the format.
2. Swords to Plowshares - Of course Miracles runs this card as well. It also won't really help against JTMS or Venser in that match up.
3. Even against Shardless they do have the out of Toxic Deluge or Maelstrom Pulse to answer all of the Thopters created when it dies, they also have JTMS as well and it just doesn't seem like a great out to the most played deck of day 2 GP Seattle-Tacoma
4. It is really slow from what I have watched in Standard coverage.
5. Council's Judgement - There are enough decks that will run this against us regardless to answer Ugin, Emrakul, etc.
6. Death and Taxes - Being popular right now, they run 4 Swords to Plowshares and 3/4 Flickerwisp. I am sure they would love for us to play something like a Hangarback Walker and invest into it rather than a real threat.

On Solemn Simulacrum:
That may not be a terrible idea. It does bridge the gap between dropping Pithing Needle, Sensei's Divining Top and going into Primeval Titan. I suppose my main concern for it would be due to exiling effects we would not get to draw the card and a 4 mana rampant growth feels bad. If we wanted an effect like that we could go back in time to John Kassari's (user Ehhh) first build I saw where he ran Snow-Covered Forests, Dark Depths and Into the North as a way to ramp and get the Stage/Depths combo online early and easy. It may not be horrible, but I still think I prefer to have plays like turn 1 Top, turn 2 Explore, turn 3 possible Titan over anything involving Solemn. It may not be bad, but it could certainly be interesting.

[Rock Lee]

After some rather hilarious raging at mono green testing, I settled on a list that is treating me well:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage

// Spells
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [TSP] Trickbind

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [NPH] Beast Within
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will

[k_omega]

Hangarback Walker is quite an interesting idea that I thought of but never really decided to follow up on. A few reasons why:
1. Terminus - Miracles is one of the most popular decks currently in the format.
2. Swords to Plowshares - Of course Miracles runs this card as well. It also won't really help against JTMS or Venser in that match up.
3. Even against Shardless they do have the out of Toxic Deluge or Maelstrom Pulse to answer all of the Thopters created when it dies, they also have JTMS as well and it just doesn't seem like a great out to the most played deck of day 2 GP Seattle-Tacoma
4. It is really slow from what I have watched in Standard coverage.
5. Council's Judgement - There are enough decks that will run this against us regardless to answer Ugin, Emrakul, etc.
6. Death and Taxes - Being popular right now, they run 4 Swords to Plowshares and 3/4 Flickerwisp. I am sure they would love for us to play something like a Hangarback Walker and invest into it rather than a real threat.

I actually maindecked Hangarback in an event about a month ago and noticed many of these same problems. I've since moved it into the sideboard and don't even bother bringing it in against decks with exiling removal (perhaps I should have mentioned that at the start, though it is why I stipulated nonwhite delver). I view it as a speed bump against BUG that can also be a threat if drawn late.

In my games, Hangarback and its thopters usually die before Jace or the 1-of Deluges and Pulses arrive on the scene.



On Solemn Simulacrum:
That may not be a terrible idea. It does bridge the gap between dropping Pithing Needle, Sensei's Divining Top and going into Primeval Titan. I suppose my main concern for it would be due to exiling effects we would not get to draw the card and a 4 mana rampant growth feels bad. If we wanted an effect like that we could go back in time to John Kassari's (user Ehhh) first build I saw where he ran Snow-Covered Forests, Dark Depths and Into the North as a way to ramp and get the Stage/Depths combo online early and easy. It may not be horrible, but I still think I prefer to have plays like turn 1 Top, turn 2 Explore, turn 3 possible Titan over anything involving Solemn. It may not be bad, but it could certainly be interesting.

That Kassari build is basically what I'm using, though without Into the North. If we're assuming that Solemn immediately gets exiled, one could argue that that is actually better as far as setting up Primeval Titan goes. I'm always thrilled when an Oracle nets a land and then eats StP right before I plan to cast Titan. I would say that a 2-mana Rampant Growth is not enough, but 4 mana Rampant Growth + [2 life + opponent discards swords] or [draw + blocker] sounds good to me in theory. I'll try it out and see.

Explore is actually something I eschewed a while ago but am now reconsidering. I think I'd prefer testing Solemn, but I may be biased after some humiliating Blood Moon losses.

[mykatdied]

I actually maindecked Hangarback in an event about a month ago and noticed many of these same problems. I've since moved it into the sideboard and don't even bother bringing it in against decks with exiling removal (perhaps I should have mentioned that at the start, though it is why I stipulated nonwhite delver). I view it as a speed bump against BUG that can also be a threat if drawn late.

In my games, Hangarback and its thopters usually die before Jace or the 1-of Deluges and Pulses arrive on the scene.



That Kassari build is basically what I'm using, though without Into the North. If we're assuming that Solemn immediately gets exiled, one could argue that that is actually better as far as setting up Primeval Titan goes. I'm always thrilled when an Oracle nets a land and then eats StP right before I plan to cast Titan. I would say that a 2-mana Rampant Growth is not enough, but 4 mana Rampant Growth + [2 life + opponent discards swords] or [draw + blocker] sounds good to me in theory. I'll try it out and see.

Explore is actually something I eschewed a while ago but am now reconsidering. I think I'd prefer testing Solemn, but I may be biased after some humiliating Blood Moon losses.

Hangarback can be neat, I am just not sure how interested in that card I am. I suppose if compared to Veteran Explorer as essentially a Moat like effect, it definitely has merit. We saw how Kassari playing Explorer early against Shardless held his opponent's Goyf back for 2 turns.

My builds have always run explore for the ramp and cantrip (much like you view solemn), plus when we run several basic forests, blood moon isn't usually an issue. I very rarely have ever cared about blood moon running my GW build because of oracle and explore for ramp as well as ancient stirrings for helping find the lands that we want to ramp. Now having Ugin as an 8 mana blood moon removal, plus bolt machine. I don't ever fear blood moon.

[TheBoozeCube]

How have you guys been liking the new Ulamog in this deck?

He's amazing in mono-G. I tutor for him nearly as much as Kozilek now. That casting trigger has just as much impact as annihilator 4. Being able to immediately choose the 2 biggest problems is basically equivalent to waiting to untap and eating 4 of your opponent's choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[drude1]

Agree 100%. Numalog is quite good. Honestly, I think I've only played one game where my opponent didn't just auto-scoop when it came down; and then they scooped after karakas and played again. It's nearly as good as Emrakul with a Karakas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pdingo]

Hey Guys!!

Today i played a 20 People Tournament in Lucerne Switzerland with Mono G 12 Post.

Here my List:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Exploration

SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Obstinate Baloth
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

Match Ups:

Deathblade 2:0
Sneak and Show 2:0
BUG Controll/Midrange(Without agent) 2:0
ID
ID

Quarter:
2:1 Infect ( Was really close, He misplayed it)
Semi:
2:1 Esper Mentor
Finals:
Sneak and Show 2:1(Really close, he had omniscience in the SB)

So i won a Wb USea:)
Dephts and exploration are really really good. 3 Exploration is too much but i prefer 2 now over explore;)
Specially for fast Match up like Burn oder infect.

I will take out the Mindbreak Traps for the next tournament because right know i don't see a lot Stormbased Match Ups.
Dismember is the new Shit that i do try out.

Thanks and just ask me for questions about Card choices;)

Greets Dingo

[k_omega]

Hey Guys!!

Thanks and just ask me for questions about Card choices;)

Greets Dingo

How did you decide to play 4 Sphere of Resistance with no Thorns or Trinispheres? Lists I've seen have been all over the place in regards to their choice of sphere effects and I'd like to know your thoughts.

[TheBoozeCube]

Thanks and just ask me for questions about Card choices;)

Greets Dingo

Congrats! I'm curious about the Obstinate Baloths. What matchups are they for, and what do you sub out to bring them in?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hopo]

Congrats! I'm curious about the Obstinate Baloths. What matchups are they for?

A not-so-wild guess: Hymn decks.

[Pdingo]

Hei guys

@spheres
The Spheres are for Controll Deck like Miracles or Blades Deck.
they are very Good;) also for storm of course.

@baloth
they are for hymn and lili Decks. i like them very much right now.
they are ok against burn.

[Drixx]

Hi,
to pdingo: congratz !! wb sea pretty nice for twenty people ;)

For Ug builds i'm testing mystic remora and seems to be very solid draw engine against discard and probe decks i think except d&t is fine for all matchups what do you think ? i'm not sure if it was posted already in any old thread about this card if anybody tested .. thanks

[maCHOOga]

So komega and myself played at the now monthly quest for power legacy events. Collectively I think there was 4-6 12post decks of various flavors in a sea of 70ish people. That's insane!

Personally after starting 1-1, soon was 4-2 heading into round 7, playing for top16 credit. Of course, my deck decided to mulligan into oblivion and I started game 2 against shardless BUG with only 5 cards in hands. Over the course of 7 rounds, I think I mulliganed 80% of all games, including two mulligan's to five.

My losses on the day were too:
Round 2, Game 3 against Lands
- Took 20 from marit liege leaving me at 1. I tap out to cast Ugin to remove the token. He untaps casts gamble and punishing fires me. (He left 1 in the deck game 3 for this scenario.) I did have a line where I could cast crop rotation into karakas to deal with the token, but I would have still died to the gamble / punishing fire. It was also unexpected, because usually they cut all the punishing fires, since they do nothing.

Round 4, Game 3 against Merfolk
- I squeak out game 1. Game two he plays multiple standstills. I of course stare at my krosan grip and realize how bad it is in this scenario. It appeared that he wasn't playing any sort of "hate" cards: back to basics, chalice, etc. Game three he goes Aether Vial into lord, lord, chalice of the void X = 1. I fire off a crop rotation since my top library cards are all 1 drops, he counters the crop rotation. End result is I'm top locked, down on lands and chalice is in play.

Round 7, Game 2 against Shardless BUG
My initial hand is 6 lands and a flusterstorm, 0 cloudposts. I opt to send it away, since it does basically nothing. I then draw 5 color spells and a glimmerpost. 5 cards was a loose keep and I eventually get rolled over by tarmogoyfs.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

That Kassari build is basically what I'm using, though without Into the North. If we're assuming that Solemn immediately gets exiled, one could argue that that is actually better as far as setting up Primeval Titan goes. I'm always thrilled when an Oracle nets a land and then eats StP right before I plan to cast Titan. I would say that a 2-mana Rampant Growth is not enough, but 4 mana Rampant Growth + [2 life + opponent discards swords] or [draw + blocker] sounds good to me in theory. I'll try it out and see.

Explore is actually something I eschewed a while ago but am now reconsidering. I think I'd prefer testing Solemn, but I may be biased after some humiliating Blood Moon losses.


I would highly recommend explore. It was one of my best cards when I played a G/W build. It speeds you up (a must when you're not playing show and tell) and cantrips at the very least.

[drude1]

So I have a larger legacy tourney coming up this weekend. I'm going to try an amalgamation of my list with terminus and ehhhh's list with GSZenith. What do people think of this....
3 X primeval Titan
1 X veteran explorer
1 X Kosilek
1 X Nulamog
1 X Emrakul
4 X crop rotation
4 X sensei's top
3 X pithing needle
2 X candelabra
3 X expedition map
4 X Terminus
2 X Ugin
3 X Green Sun's Zenith
1 X dryad arbor
1 X bojuka bog
1 X Eye of Ugin
1 X tabernacle
1 X karakas
1 X thespians stage
1 X cavern of souls
1 X glacial chasm
4 X cloudpost
4 X glimmerpost
2 X vesuva
4 X windswept Heath
3 X forest
1 X plains
2 X Savannah

SB
1 X scavenging ooze
1 X Melira
1 X Gaddock Teag
1 X rec sage
2 X Canonist
2 X krosan grip
4 X leyline of sanctity
1 X surgical extraction
2 X mindbreak trap

SB is very open. Don't know if I love the traps as they are only for storm. Also not sure if Melira is worth it. It's one MU and Melira seems a little slow. I feel like I am missing low cc creature removal, but in play testing it hasn't been too much of an issue. Again, looking for any input, especially from booze or ehhhh, as you guys have a lot of history with this type of deck. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pdingo]

Thanks Drixx;))
Yeah Usea is nice:P Welcome to Switzerland haha

@Some Card Choices

Explore vs Exploration

First i liked Explore a lot. But after a lot testing i boardet it out a lot. It can tap you out and i don't like that because of Crop Rotation actions ore some free mana for map or whatever. Specially against Match up with Counters i never liked the explore. It's just like you tap you and do nothing much even if it resolve. It's very important for a aggro Match like RUG Delver or Burn.

Then i tested the exploration. First my thoughts were like this card does nothing in this deck. But then it changed.
It's sooo good in the Start hand. I don't like 3-4 because you don't want it to draw it in the late Game and you don't have space for a Card like this i think. 1-2 or is fine depends on the Meta. I like 2 to be fast. Important also for the Dephts Combo. Forest into exploration into another land into map on t1 is damn nice.

Also 61 Card isn't a Option for me. More than 60 cards is just wrong.

I don't care about draw 1 Card in this deck. I prefer the important speed more than a slow 2 mana sorcery.
If you don't agree you should test it. ;)

@Terminus

Please guys are you serious?
For what do you play a greedy Card in a sometimes greedy deck??? And some People don't play BS and still play Terminus. You should prefer cards like all is Dust . It's a lot better!!!
I don't get it. Sry for that but i have to say that:P

Greets Dingo

[Morden]

@Terminus

Please guys are you serious?
For what do you play a greedy Card in a sometimes greedy deck??? And some People don't play BS and still play Terminus. You should prefer cards like all is Dust . It's a lot better!!!
I don't get it. Sry for that but i have to say that:P

Greets Dingo

I play Terminus because it costs six mana less at instant speed :P

[k_omega]

Hei guys
@spheres
The Spheres are for Controll Deck like Miracles or Blades Deck.
they are very Good;) also for storm of course.

I've never considered bringing spheres in against Miracles. Thanks for making me think about that. My question, however, was more about why you chose Sphere of Resistance specifically instead of Thorn of Amethyst or Trinisphere.


So komega and myself played at the now monthly quest for power legacy events. Collectively I think there was 4-6 12post decks of various flavors in a sea of 70ish people. That's insane!

I counted 3 U/G and 2 G/W 12 Post decks among 84 people. Ironically, Counterbalances may have been outnumbered by Cloudposts as I only saw four Miracles players. The other GW player was using Burgeoning, From Beyond, Eureka, and lots of Savannahs but didn't seem to be doing particularly well with them (he did strongly praise Eureka, though). I myself ended 4-3 also, with not much worthy of report except a resounding endorsement of maindeck Glacial Chasm and shaken confidence in the utility of Leyline of Sanctity against Burn.


I would highly recommend explore. It was one of my best cards when I played a G/W build. It speeds you up (a must when you're not playing show and tell) and cantrips at the very least.
I played Explore for a while and cut it because the extra land would often be the last land I had. Consequently on the following turn I would have the same lands in play that would have been there if I had just made normal land drops and had another card in place of Explore (Explore-ing does get better in that scenario if you have two ETB-tapped lands though). Since then I swapped Explores for Relics of Progenitus to keep the cantrip option, free up sideboard slots, and address Tarmogoyfs.

[Pdingo]

@Sphere

Thorn is non creature spell... I like also to slow down elves when i'm on the play;))
But Mentor Lists are very important. Thorn does nothing..
I liked Trinisphere in a meta of Omnitell but right now nobody play a omnideck.
3 Mana is too much. I mean yes sometimes you can play it Turn 2 but i think thus situation is too greedy.
And trinisphere doesn't make mentor in a cc 4 spell.

[MechTactical]

After some rather hilarious raging at mono green testing, I settled on a list that is treating me well:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage

// Spells
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [TSP] Trickbind

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [NPH] Beast Within
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will


Rock man finally you are running those FoWs. anywayz with 2 trinkets in the MB why not run more fetchable artifacts like EE, relic,…?
i'll run a similar list. Although I'll probably replace ugin slots with EE. Someone wrote some time ago that trinket mages are the epitome of cuteness / slowness in the UG builds. I’m not sure he was right since they do fill so many roles. What’s you’re excuse for running them? sad to see only 2 SnT in there...

[drude1]

I play Terminus because it costs six mana less at instant speed :P

Ding!
Terminus is WAY faster than All is Dust (as in 1cc vs 7 cc) and yes, can be played at instant speed. Sure, we don't have brainstorm, but Sensei's Top is a much better card to find it with anyway. Blind flipping it also never really hurts us either. Terminus isn't fantastic in hand but it still comes down a turn faster than All is Dust as long as you have 2 white, which I haven't had problems with. My win percentage has gone up leaps and bounds with this card in my deck, which is why I have actually gone up to 4 copies. People like to over-commit to the board when playing against this deck because they just want to race you before you get your win cons online. Yesterday I had one opponent drop 3 delver, a goyf and a deathrite by turn 4 and on my turn 4 I wiped the board. Next turn I drop titan and opponent scoops. I would have been dead 3 times over with All is Dust.

[maCHOOga]

Ding!
Terminus is WAY faster than All is Dust (as in 1cc vs 7 cc) and yes, can be played at instant speed.

Personally I don't like either option...
-> Terminus is basically adding a 3rd color to an already shaky manabase and it's very difficult to cast out of your hand because there are three source of white in the deck in the UG version. I can get behind it for the WG version however.
-> All is Dust is slow and tribal, which feeds opposing tarmogoyfs.

While this is being discussed, has anyone ever tried BUG or BG 12post? You get discard against combo and toxic deluge (+ Engineered plague SB) against aggro/midrange. It may be time to start brewing. :-)

[Pdingo]

@Terminus Why should i play a card that cost Six mana with double white that i can't play when it's on my hand? Lol
Who cares about instant speed really??? If you play against a Tempo Deck it doesn't matter..stifle get it.
If they have another counter also. It doesn't change nothing. If they have creatures they attack you first before they play a another creature. If you play it instant they have most of the time more mana and a card more in the hand in their own turn.
Why is Miracle so good? They can play a BS and Terminus.
@Drude1 your example of your opponent yesterday is also bad and says nothing. Of course Terminus can be good. But you can say that with a lot cards if you would have then in hand in exactly this situation^^

Why is All is Dust better?
guys really..All is Dust takes Creatures, Lili, Jace's, enchantement's(Blood Moon and more) and some Artifacts.
All is dust isn't slow. Normaly you can play him T3-4..Don't forget your eye of gin;)
Who cares about a Goyf and tribal..lol

Just so say All is Dust is just good in the Mono G version and maybe some WG hybrids.
In the UG we don't have much space with Titan. I prefer Repeal and Momen'ts Peace;)

BUG seems just Bad..i mean Post and 3 Colours. I think it's wrong to make this deck better against Combo. I mean a good Storm Player don't care about some Discard and a slow deck. If you have a Combo heavy Meta you should follow the Anti-combo SB with some Mindbreak Traps, Surgical extraction, Permanent hate and if you play blue Flusterstorm.

Greets


Greets

[Postman]

Personally I don't like either option...
-> Terminus is basically adding a 3rd color to an already shaky manabase and it's very difficult to cast out of your hand because there are three source of white in the deck in the UG version. I can get behind it for the WG version however.
-> All is Dust is slow and tribal, which feeds opposing tarmogoyfs.

While this is being discussed, has anyone ever tried BUG or BG 12post? You get discard against combo and toxic deluge (+ Engineered plague SB) against aggro/midrange. It may be time to start brewing. :-)
I tried BG a few month ago... It can be really interesting! :-))) Please consider Heartless Summoning, my favorite card in that build ;-)

[drude1]

@Terminus Why should i play a card that cost Six mana with double white that i can't play when it's on my hand? Lol
Who cares about instant speed really??? If you play against a Tempo Deck it doesn't matter..stifle get it.
If they have another counter also. It doesn't change nothing. If they have creatures they attack you first before they play a another creature. If you play it instant they have most of the time more mana and a card more in the hand in their own turn.
Why is Miracle so good? They can play a BS and Terminus.
@Drude1 your example of your opponent yesterday is also bad and says nothing. Of course Terminus can be good. But you can say that with a lot cards if you would have then in hand in exactly this situation^^

Why is All is Dust better?
guys really..All is Dust takes Creatures, Lili, Jace's, enchantement's(Blood Moon and more) and some Artifacts.
All is dust isn't slow. Normaly you can play him T3-4..Don't forget your eye of gin;)
Who cares about a Goyf and tribal..lol

Just so say All is Dust is just good in the Mono G version and maybe some WG hybrids.
In the UG we don't have much space with Titan. I prefer Repeal and Momen'ts Peace;)

BUG seems just Bad..i mean Post and 3 Colours. I think it's wrong to make this deck better against Combo. I mean a good Storm Player don't care about some Discard and a slow deck. If you have a Combo heavy Meta you should follow the Anti-combo SB with some Mindbreak Traps, Surgical extraction, Permanent hate and if you play blue Flusterstorm.

Greets


Greets

Wha? Are we even playing the same game? Why is a 1 cc instant speed spell better than a 7 cc sorcery speed spell? Do I need to answer this question? How about reasons instant speed removal is better...Entreat the Angels, elves, Tin Fins, Sneak Attack. Why is 1 cc better than 7 cc....empty the warrens, elves, goblins, any other aggressive deck that wins before turn 5. Planeswalkers are not a problem for this deck. We generally just go over the top of them or we can shut them off with needles, shoot them with Ugin or just remove them with Ulamog. The only advantage of Dust is that it's colorless. If you disagree that's fine. We can agree to disagree. Also, I am playing the card in a G/w version of the deck. I don't condone splashing for it in a u/g deck. You are conflating those two issues. And as far as saying "they can just counter it or play another creature after you terminus", that's just stupid and doesn't support an argument for any of these cards, as that's true for anything. Although All is Dust is much more likely to get spell pierced or dazed than terminus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rock Lee]

I got 1st place (technically) with this list at local weekly magic:

// Lands
1 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
3 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)
2 [R] Tundra
1 [R] Savannah

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [M11] Sun Titan

// Spells
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [AVR] Terminus
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [R] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Omni 2-0, DnT 2-1, Reanimator 2-1, MUD 0-2 (but 1st on breakers boom!). Mud got the super bonkers hands vs me, omni wins involved having iona and/or Ulamog2.0

I am finally glad with a build of the deck. I could perhaps see a Mox Diamond added, but the mana is quite stable. My previous BANT versions of the deck ran less than 24 lands, and I tried to squeeze spaces with either GSZ or mana dorks. Just plain lands though did the job fine.

<EDIT> Included 61st card, ugin spirit dragon.

[Morden]

I generally agree with Drude1, the only thing that I don't like in terminus is using it in a deck without brainstorm....having it on opening hand or drawing it at the wrong moment it's painful if you don't have the possibility to shuffle it back.
On the UG build I can compare repeal vs terminus, these cards fight for 2/3 slots. I tested both, and I prefer terminus. Honestly I tested it when there was a lot of grixis deck, before dtt's ban. But now elves are coming back again, and this is another deck where terminus is much better then repeal. Repeal/moment of peace let you gain 1 turn, maybe 2, but sometimes it's not enough.
A resolved terminus basically is gg; consider this: a lot (I'd say all) of players don't expect terminus in your deck, and they play as "aggro" as they can, since everyone knows that agains 12post is better close the game asap. This lets the player with few resources in hand, and very hard to start again the race after a terminus. After all, also if they know you have terminus and they want to play around it, it's only better, 'cause a slow game is everything we need.
I didn't find any particular problem with 3 tropical/1 tundra/1savanna and 4-5 fetches.....if the early game gives you only fetches, just be patient and keep it until you can decide the right manabase that you need. I remind you, you can fetch AFTER revealing terminus and get the white mana you need...

[Hopo]

No idea if this is for real or not.

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/kozilekthegreatdistortion.jpg

[into_play]

^ We'll have to see what the new mana symbols mean exactly. If it really does mean mana that must be colorless, then it won't be a problem for us. It does feel strange that they would add this mechanic on the new Kozilek but not the new Ulamog.

Compared to the old Kozilek, this new card's drawing power will vary in usefulness. With the old Kozilek, I sometimes already have a good number of cards in hand but then want the constant amount of four cards to dig further. Otherwise, with Kozilek being such a late-game card anyway, the new one should draw you at least four quite often.

It's that last ability on the card that makes me the most intrigued. Finally, there could be a good Eldrazi to Show and Tell in against most combo decks, giving you some defense after he enters play. I suppose our deck would mostly have one mana cost cards to pitch, but that still has a lot of use for stopping cantrips and Dark Rituals. It's also a good way to protect himself from Swords to Plowshares. All of these counters being uncounterable themselves of course.

Here's hoping this card is for real!

[MechTactical]

I’m struggling to pilot the UG build as it is. UGW seems too greedy (at least for a noob like me). The UGW build also seems more vulnerable to wasteland? Is no one worried about wasteland or am I missing some angle here? With trickbind I can at least make sure a cloudpost (or another land) survives the first wasteland, with no needles, no trickbinds you’re left with just 3 crops (that can be countered…). Apparently the build relies heavily on SnT, but still…

A typical game 2 play against me is wasteland cloudpost -> surgical extraction, leaving me with the SnT plan, which is supposed to be plan B? so making sure my cloudpost stays on the field is crucial (especially game 2). In this respect I was thinking of running 1-2 needls in SB alongside 4x MB trickbinds, but it may be going overboard?