[Deck] 12 Post

[Morden]

Small sample size so far, but early returns on Warping Wail are extremely promising. In four games of streaming tonight, I've already cast it for each mode. So far I've exiled a Vendilion Clique and a Delver of Secrets, countered a Life from the Loam, and put down an idiot to block a Tarmogoyf and one to ramp into a Karn Liberated.

Only two casts of Kozilek, the Great Distortion so far. First time, he drew three cards and got countered. Second time, he drew five and countered a Swords to Plowshares, prompting a concession. Not enough information to really say either way yet.

Warping is indeed one of the best card for this deck. How many copies do you play? I'm currently blocked on 2....I'd like to play 3 of them (also 4 if I had more room) but having already 1 pyroclasm and 2 kozilek's return limit the need of the first warping option.

[Zotmaster]

Warping is indeed one of the best card for this deck. How many copies do you play? I'm currently blocked on 2....I'd like to play 3 of them (also 4 if I had more room) but having already 1 pyroclasm and 2 kozilek's return limit the need of the first warping option.

I'm running a full four copies right now. Not sure if that's right but I figure for a card like that, the best way to figure out its usefulness is to run all four and see how happy I am to draw it.

[TheBoozeCube]

Another use I found for Warping Wail's 3rd mode: put a token into play vs Dredge and immediately sacrifice it to exile all copies of Bridge from Below.


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[Postman]

This post is about the UG build:
Endbringer didn't excite me in my flex slot. Maybe Wurmcoil Engine gets another chance, since it should be good against almost all non white, non combo decks and really helps against lilly decks (Jund). Will also try Thought-Knot Seer, seems interesting to me since it provides a super CIP effect, fits the curve and can be tutored. Not sure about Warping Wail so far... Would love to play it, but no idea what to cut? (my list is a few pages back)

[Morden]

Another use I found for Warping Wail's 3rd mode: put a token into play vs Dredge and immediately sacrifice it to exile all copies of Bridge from Below.


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Nice!

[bruizar]

Another use I found for Warping Wail's 3rd mode: put a token into play vs Dredge and immediately sacrifice it to exile all copies of Bridge from Below.


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Also Exiles Ichorid, so it won't return.

[Morden]

This post is about the UG build:
Endbringer didn't excite me in my flex slot. Maybe Wurmcoil Engine gets another chance, since it should be good against almost all non white, non combo decks and really helps against lilly decks (Jund). Will also try Thought-Knot Seer, seems interesting to me since it provides a super CIP effect, fits the curve and can be tutored. Not sure about Warping Wail so far... Would love to play it, but no idea what to cut? (my list is a few pages back)

I have this configuration in my ug build:
MAIN
1 emrakul
1 old kozilek
2 platinum emperion
4 titan

SIDE
1 nulamog
1 wurmcoil
1 endbringer

basically the big guys in sideboard repleace the 2 emperion when they are useless.
bug,jund,aggro loam: -2 emperion, +nulamog , +wurcoil
white deck: -2 emperion, +nulamog, +endbringer (draw effect is always nice, against StP wurmcoil is useless; endbringer's second ability can stop a big mentor)
elves: -1 emperion, +endbringer
infect: -1 emperion, + endbringer
burn: -1 emrakul, +1 wurmcoil
storm: no creature change (or like burn)
of course it depends on your configuration, but I think endbringer it's not bad, can really help with some matchups.

[TheBoozeCube]

For those of you on the fence about Warping Wail (and just as a quick reference for those who are already on board), I made a list of as many relevant things it does as I could think of. (Hint: it's a lot.)

Relevant creatures it exiles:
Deathrite Shaman
Young Pyromancer
Dark Confidant
Vendilion Clique
Stoneforge Mystic
Phyrexian Revoker
Flickerwisp
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Painter’s Servant
Inkmoth Nexus
Noble Hierarch
Glistener Elf
Blighted Agent
Baleful Strix
Xantid Swarm
Delver of Secrets (unflipped)
Snapcaster Mage
Monastery Swiftspear
Grim Lavamancer
Dryad Arbor
Pretty much everything in Elves except Nettle Sentinel and NO targets
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Piledriver
Metalworker
Ichorid
Nether Shadow
Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy

Spells it counters:
Hymn to Tourach
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Cabal Therapy
Duress
Maelstrom Pulse
Past In Flames
Infernal Tutor
Dark Petition
Terminus
Entreat the Angels
Council’s Judgment
Show & Tell
Reanimate
Exhume
Time Spiral
Ancestral Vision
Through the Breach
Chain Lightning
Lava Spike
Natural Order
Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun’s Zenith
Life from the Loam
Gamble
Vindicate
Ponder
Preordain
Burning Wish
Living Wish
Transmute Artifact

Uses for Scion token:
EOT for mana ramp
Surprise chump blocker
Response to edict effect
Surprise attacker vs open planeswalker
Sac to exile Bridge from Below

Let me know if I missed something!


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[Navsi]

Also exiles:
Veteran Explorer (not that the Eldrazi deck is too worried about Nic Fit)
Mother of Runes
Dryad Arbor
Academy Rector (if it sees play anywhere any more)

[Mr. Froggy]

Hey y'all!

Here's my Mono Green 12Post list, would love feedback.

Lands:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs

Creatures:
4 Primeval Titan
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Crop Rotation
3 Ancient Stirrings
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Trinisphere
4 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map

Planeswalkers:
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SB:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
1 Savannah
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Krosan Grip
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 Dark Depths
1 Trinisphere

What do you guys think?

[Zotmaster]

About to go live for some post-OGW 12-Post on Cockatrice! Set sail for fail! I'll also try to stream a bit again tomorrow.

http://www.twitch.tv/zotmaster

[Zotmaster]

Went 6-1 tonight. Thanks to any and all of you who watched!

A few thoughts:

Warping Wail is definitely legit. I have zero doubts about that whatsoever. It's a rare day where you have high expectations for a card before it's released, and it meets or even exceeds them. I had a hilarious match against LED Dredge today where I was sitting on two forests, two Crop Rotations, a few Loci, and a Warping Wail in hand. Couldn't have been happier. Complete and utter ruin ensued.

I didn't play a lot of conventional decks today: the closest commonly seen decks were MUD, iPainter, and Lands. I actually 2-0'd the Lands player, which was a pleasant surprise.

This brings me to Kozilek, the Great Distortion. I'm still not 100% sure what to think of him. I had a draw 5 and a draw 7 today. Against a Smallpox player he countered both Innocent Blood and Liliana of the Veil, prompting a concession. Yesterday he stopped Swords to Plowshares, which also won me a game. I had a game where I specifically tutored for him. Yet I boarded him out in several matchups. Uncommon decks or not, there were several matchups where he just didn't do anything. So he was very strong when I needed him, and other times it was a no-brainer cut. I kind of feel like he's stronger against fair decks in general, although he has game against Storm since you aren't completely helpless if you tap out. Again, I'm still not certain.

The million dollar problem right now, for me anyway, is what the hell to do about Magus of the Moon. I have a great deal of difficulty getting rid of him. Spatial Contortion still doesn't seem good because if I draw it after the Magus is down, it's a straight brick unless I also run a Wastes, and I'm not sure that's right, either. Dismember does handle it, but I only have two in the board and it's hard to justify running more than that. All is Dust costs the same as Karn Liberated and doesn't also present its own wincon.

Speaking of Karn, Karn is a slot I'm not sure of, either. I like him a lot: he can win the game by himself, Ancient Stirrings finds him, he's a mana cheaper than Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and he handles things Ugin can't. He's not fantastic, though, and he can still be bum rushed. I'm still reluctant to run All is Dust there for the aforementioned reasons.

[kingtk3]

...

The million dollar problem right now, for me anyway, is what the hell to do about Magus of the Moon. I have a great deal of difficulty getting rid of him. Spatial Contortion still doesn't seem good because if I draw it after the Magus is down, it's a straight brick unless I also run a Wastes, and I'm not sure that's right, either. Dismember does handle it, but I only have two in the board and it's hard to justify running more than that. All is Dust costs the same as Karn Liberated and doesn't also present its own wincon.
...

If you fear specifically magus of the moon you could play some bonfire of the damned alongside with a red dual in order to cast it when the magus is not in play. Bonfire is also ridicuolus against painter or dragon stompy since it wipes their boards with little mana investment (even if cast from hand).
It's also a legittimate win condition that could find his place maindeck if someone wants to splash red (I did some years ago).

It doesn't answer Blood Moon itself though.

Another card that can be easily cast under Moon effect and that answers both of them is Chaos Warp, but it can backfire from times to times.

[Hopo]

Is no one playing Oblivion Stone anymore? You should try that if you feel that Blood Moon (or Magus) gives you problems. If you need to consider Abrupt Decay matchups, Perilous Vault is an option, I guess.

[mykatdied]

Hey y'all!

Here's my Mono Green 12Post list, would love feedback.

Lands:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs

Creatures:
4 Primeval Titan
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Crop Rotation
3 Ancient Stirrings
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Trinisphere
4 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map

Planeswalkers:
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SB:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
1 Savannah
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Krosan Grip
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 Dark Depths
1 Trinisphere

What do you guys think?

Your list is perfectly reasonable. Similar to Kassari's build and he tends to do well with the deck. I like that you went up to 3 Ugin. He is almost unbeatable in legacy. As for the sideboard, why creeping corrosion? Do you have a lot of affinity or tezzerator in your local meta? Otherwise I would drop it like it's hot.

[Zotmaster]

If you fear specifically magus of the moon you could play some bonfire of the damned alongside with a red dual in order to cast it when the magus is not in play. Bonfire is also ridicuolus against painter or dragon stompy since it wipes their boards with little mana investment (even if cast from hand).
It's also a legittimate win condition that could find his place maindeck if someone wants to splash red (I did some years ago).

It doesn't answer Blood Moon itself though.

Another card that can be easily cast under Moon effect and that answers both of them is Chaos Warp, but it can backfire from times to times.

Warping my whole deck just to handle Magus is not what I'm looking for: if I did run red, though, I'd rather use something like Punishing Fire or Fire / Ice in a RUG list to handle X/2's, saving Bonfire of the Damned for winning. My mono-green list just has a problem handling Magus, so perhaps a Beast Within or shaving a card or two for additional copies of Dismember would be best.


Hey y'all!

Here's my Mono Green 12Post list, would love feedback.
What do you guys think?

It seems fine as a list, a la John Kassari. It might be a good idea to throw in a Gaddock Teeg in the sideboard: the ultimate hate bear definitely has some strong uses throughout various matchups.

[Blastoderm]

Any thoughts on Exploration / Horn of Greed (for mono green)?

@MrFoggy: As the gentleman above me said, creeping corrosion is terrible. Add a 4th Krosan Grip? Nature's Claim if you're desperate?

[Zotmaster]

Any thoughts on Exploration / Horn of Greed (for mono green)?

@MrFoggy: As the gentleman above me said, creeping corrosion is terrible. Add a 4th Krosan Grip? Nature's Claim if you're desperate?

Tried both, hated both. Exploration is like Black Vise in Burn: you need to run 3 or 4 to guarantee one in your opener, and any you pick up after that are almost always bricks that you wish were something else. I also tried Horn of Greed when I was doing creative brews before I had all of the cards for this deck and it also suffers from the same problem of doing absolutely nothing by itself. Perhaps you're a more creative brewer than I am, but I would tell you to stay away.

[TheBoozeCube]

Any thoughts on Exploration / Horn of Greed (for mono green)?

@MrFoggy: As the gentleman above me said, creeping corrosion is terrible. Add a 4th Krosan Grip? Nature's Claim if you're desperate?

I've played Exploration for 4 years. I've replaced them all with Warping Wail. Never looking back.

Do not use Nature's Claim over Grip. At least, not if you want your spells to resolve past a Chalice, which is kind of a thing in Tezz and Stompy.


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[MechTactical]

For those of you on the fence about Warping Wail (and just as a quick reference for those who are already on board), I made a list of as many relevant things it does as I could think of. (Hint: it's a lot.)

Let me know if I missed something!



Here's one for u Booze - Sinkhole, countered several yesterday. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not as excited about wail, more so with the new kozilek. Most of the time he draws me a hand and wins me the game, if i get to cast him... Not so good off SnT i think, since i'm low on cards most of the time in UG, which is unfortunate really, since I'm running blue right? However, he is better with top in play.

Does anyone know what to pitch to Koz for 2cmc in UG post, that would be impressive not mehhhh, like wail, trickbind, moment's peace, phyrexian revoker, etc etc is? Something like 2cmc = If an effect causes you to discard ?, you may draw 2 cards or deal 2 damage or gain 4 life or put 2x 1/1 spawns or ... :laugh: I'm currently running a 0 cmc=2 build so new koz doesn't fit well in there...

[bruizar]

Here's one for u Booze - Sinkhole, countered several yesterday. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not as excited about wail, more so with the new kozilek. Most of the time he draws me a hand and wins me the game, if i get to cast him... Not so good off SnT i think, since i'm low on cards most of the time in UG, which is unfortunate really, since I'm running blue right? However, he is better with top in play.

Does anyone know what to pitch to Koz for 2cmc in UG post, that would be impressive not mehhhh, like wail, trickbind, moment's peace, phyrexian revoker, etc etc is? Something like 2cmc = If an effect causes you to discard ?, you may draw 2 cards or deal 2 damage or gain 4 life or put 2x 1/1 spawns or ... :laugh: I'm currently running a 0 cmc=2 build so new koz doesn't fit well in there...

Life from the Loam. You dredge him back every turn and helps against land hate. Also helps get back Misty Rainforest and Crop Rotation fodder.

[Blastoderm]

I've played Exploration for 4 years. I've replaced them all with Warping Wail. Never looking back.

Do not use Nature's Claim over Grip. At least, not if you want your spells to resolve past a Chalice, which is kind of a thing in Tezz and Stompy.


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Yea seriously, warping wail looks like the real deal. I think I'll do the same and jam 4!

[TheBoozeCube]

Life from the Loam. You dredge him back every turn and helps against land hate. Also helps get back Misty Rainforest and Crop Rotation fodder.

Loam is pretty bad when you dredge into an original Eldrazi. Sylvan Scrying is a strong 2cmc if you're looking to add more. I jammed 1-2x of those for a little while.


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[TheBoozeCube]

Is no one playing Oblivion Stone anymore? You should try that if you feel that Blood Moon (or Magus) gives you problems. If you need to consider Abrupt Decay matchups, Perilous Vault is an option, I guess.

I play one in the board, and it is quite handy. The real problem card for me has been Magus of the Moon. Blood Moon is easy to deal with postboard with K Grip. But Magus, less so. I've never had room in my board for cards like Dismember, so the only way I've been able to answer him is O Stone, All Is Dust, or Ugin. With Warping Wail replacing Exploration in my deck, getting to 7-8 land drops vs Stompy seems much less realistic.

But with Warping Wail upping my maindeck game vs combo, it might be feasible to add in a sideboard Dismember or two. My current board is:

4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Sphere of Resistance
1x Trinisphere
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Krosan Grip
1x Oblivion Stone

Not sure what to cut without seeing Warping Wail in action first, but I'm guessing I could stand to lose 1x Trap.

Not sure whether to cut Trini or a Sphere though; Sphere's *much* better than Trini on the draw, but Trini is better overall. I think it will probably come down to whether WW helps me win enough game 1s vs Storm, which will in turn determine how likely I am to be on the play if we go to game 3.


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[Zotmaster]

The real problem card for me has been Magus of the Moon. Blood Moon is easy to deal with postboard with K Grip. But Magus, less so.

This is exactly what I was complaining about last page :tongue: I already made some cuts to your board to fit in Dismember, but I'm only running 2 and that sometimes doesn't feel adequate. Oblivion Stone obviously works but it can be killed off and also takes out your artifacts. It might still be the best option but I feel like that's a bit of a tough trade. I'm also thinking of possibly running Beast Within: I sort of feel like I can manage the 3/3 drawback due to the presence of Maze of Ith, and Beast gets rid of hatebears, planeswalkers, and anything else that looks at you funny. I'm going to be streaming a little later today so I think I may give them a whirl: nothing lost with digital cards, right?

[TheBoozeCube]

This is exactly what I was complaining about last page :tongue: I already made some cuts to your board to fit in Dismember, but I'm only running 2 and that sometimes doesn't feel adequate. Oblivion Stone obviously works but it can be killed off and also takes out your artifacts. It might still be the best option but I feel like that's a bit of a tough trade. I'm also thinking of possibly running Beast Within: I sort of feel like I can manage the 3/3 drawback due to the presence of Maze of Ith, and Beast gets rid of hatebears, planeswalkers, and anything else that looks at you funny. I'm going to be streaming a little later today so I think I may give them a whirl: nothing lost with digital cards, right?

Beast Within does sound intriguing. I will definitely need to test with that. I do like that it takes out all of the core problem cards in Stompy: Moon, Magus, and Chalice. I would gladly see a vanilla 3/3 over any of those things.


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[Zotmaster]

Beast Within does sound intriguing. I will definitely need to test with that. I do like that it takes out all of the core problem cards in Stompy: Moon, Magus, and Chalice. I would gladly see a vanilla 3/3 over any of those things.


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Got some testing in today while streaming. Split 6 games, which is a little disappointing. Still on the fence about Kozilek, the Great Distortion. I had one game against a Loam deck where I used him to fill my hand, then repeatedly used Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to dig for my Emrakul.

Warping Wail keeps getting better and better. Seriously, you guys. Buy four and play them. In the worst case, cut one.

Beast Within was a pleasant surprise today and I think you'll feel the same way since we both run Maze of Ith. Even without Maze, hitting a Young Pyromancer in the absence of a Wail is fantastic because if the Grixis player is able to cast even one instant or sorcery, he's already at parity with the Beast, and any more than that and he'll outstrip the damage the Beast would do to you. With a Maze, though, Beast Within is pure value: it also gets rid of Deathrite Shaman. I'm gonna play it at my LGS tonight and see how it works.

[TheBoozeCube]

Warping Wail keeps getting better and better. Seriously, you guys. Buy four and play them. In the worst case, cut one.

I've been on the fence about trying to fit a fourth in. Mostly because I'm honestly not sure what to cut to make room for it. Unfortunately, I haven't had much of a chance to actually test with it yet (a few games between rounds of drunk EDH aren't the best data). But it sounds like it's exceeding my already-high expectations. Would you say that it's been good enough for you so far that I should seriously look a difficult cut to make room for a 4th?


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[Zotmaster]

Would you say that it's been good enough for you so far that I should seriously look a difficult cut to make room for a 4th?


And how. Today at my LGS featured the first match where I actually boarded all of them out. I was playing against StifleNaught. That is the first match where Warping Wail actually wasn't good. Here's my list right now:

ARTIFACT
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top

CREATURE
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

INSTANT
3 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail

LAND
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
5 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Vesuva
1 Windswept Heath

PLANESWALKER
2 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SORCERY
4 Ancient Stirrings

SIDEBOARD
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Beast Within
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction

Obviously, our lists are very similar: yours was very much the inspiration for mine. Our philosophies differ slightly: I value Sensei's Divining Top more than you do, and you value Crop Rotation more than I do. For me, for a card to be a 4-of, I pretty much have to never wish the card was something else. I often don't mind drawing a second Top because then I can draw, or draw and fetch, with abandon and not lose access to card quality. This sort of reasoning is why I'm still running 4 Warping Wail right now: minus an out-of-left-field matchup, I pretty much never regret drawing it. In the worst case scenario, you can always just make a 1/1 idiot with it. That having been said, I can very much see reasoning behind dropping it to 3 copies. But especially in our mono-green lists, with access to Ancient Stirrings I can't imagine a compelling reason to not run at least 3. In other words, I won't tell you sticking to 3 is wrong.

For me, and I imagine for you, most of my list is pretty set in stone. Here are the wiggle spots for me:

1. Kozilek, the Great Distortion. I had a few more games today where he drew me five or more cards. I love the fact that he counters most of the cards that opponents would use to get rid of him. Menace kind of sucks, but it still makes him harder to chump block. He still hasn't been bonkers, and I've still sided him out several times, but I still don't have a great opinion in either direction. For now, he stays until I can have more games with him.

2. Karn Liberated. Karn is in a very weird spot for me. He's colorless. He can win games by himself. He's cheaper than Ugin. He handles things Ugin can't. But there are also several matchups where he just kind of blows. Ultimately, I think Ugin is a touch stronger. At the same time, though, I've had matchups where I boarded out Karns because he sucked and kept Ugin, and there have been matchups where I boarded out Ugins because he sucked and kept Karn (Lands, in particular). Perhaps this is a sign that both planeswalkers are actually fine and I can just trade them out for more appropriate kill spells as necessary.

3. Beast Within. This is what I was alluding to earlier before I went to play at my LGS today. Magus of the Moon is a pain in the ass to kill when you don't have access to blue or red. I like most of the other common matchups in mono-green, but Magus is an asshole. Today, I took out a Magus, a Liliana of the Veil, and a Phyrexian Dreadnought. Is it better than Dismember? I don't know. But with Maze of Ith the card can actually be pretty unfair, and I like that. And hey, it's another 3-CMC spell I can potentially pitch to Kozilek if I keep using him.

The other million dollar question I've been thinking about is whether or not those Karns might actually just be better if they were additional copies of Nulamog. Sure, it's more expensive, but holy shit is the card strong. As always, your mileage may vary.

[Mr. Froggy]

I've been loving my list on MTGO, 3Spheres is killer for the meta I've been facing.

Dryad Arbor might get the boot though, not a card I've been feeling.

Might want an extra Eldrazi. Also noticed that I usually (more often than not) wish for Newlamog more-so than Emmy. His ability to exile is just completely ridiculous.

EDIT: Last 10 matches, 7-3 (not bad for someone who picked up the deck a couple days ago)

[Blastoderm]

Here's one for u Booze - Sinkhole, countered several yesterday. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not as excited about wail, more so with the new kozilek. Most of the time he draws me a hand and wins me the game, if i get to cast him... Not so good off SnT i think, since i'm low on cards most of the time in UG, which is unfortunate really, since I'm running blue right? However, he is better with top in play.

Does anyone know what to pitch to Koz for 2cmc in UG post, that would be impressive not mehhhh, like wail, trickbind, moment's peace, phyrexian revoker, etc etc is? Something like 2cmc = If an effect causes you to discard ?, you may draw 2 cards or deal 2 damage or gain 4 life or put 2x 1/1 spawns or ... :laugh: I'm currently running a 0 cmc=2 build so new koz doesn't fit well in there...

At two mana I run 2-3 Sylvan Library.

[MechTactical]

Guys thanks for the feedback. Last night you got me thinking about the two suggested cards: Loam and sylvan library. Both felt very strong at 2cmc, as promised. So I took into consideration Booze’s advice on the old eldrazi graveyard triggers and quickly threw together a list without them:

Land (25)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Artifact (8)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Creature (8)
3x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Enchantment (3)
3x Exploration

Sorcery (8)
4x Life from the Loam
4x Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

The Distortion Loam felt very sporty, like it wants to race more than control, with 7 acceleration cards in the MB it is fast, very fast. My hand was never empty and I was just powering through the deck with amazing speed – too fast sometimes as I made many misplays with loam specifically. Exploration felt awesome, since I could avoid drawing it (sensei + brainstorm) or just pitch it to kozilek, even 2 on the board is sometimes fine with loam. Furthermore I am so excited to play exploration in UG, since this is something I wanted to do for a while now.

The build seems very resilient to hand disruption and land destruction, but opens up to graveyard hate – which could be fine as you can use loam aggressively or passively. This also means they have to bring in graveyard hate from SB they previously didn’t have to. In this case you don’t have to dredge that much, right? Or on the other hand dredge it intentionally in response to gy hate?

No emrakul - Most of the time the opponent still takes his turn, when I have kozilek out, but quickly forfeits, when I counter their first or second spell – muahaha. The beauty with loam is that you always have a 2cmc to pitch, just tap sensei or play brainstorm and voila. In any event I usually just beat down with titan and kozilek for the win, which is more than enough – emrakul seems like overkill, although the deck could play a copy of it, as you could avoid dredging it with sensei, right?

In any case I’m not exactly sure what I’m doing here or if the proposed build is balanced enough to be taken seriously. I didn’t play that many matches and I could be wrong about the whole thing and i was just lucky with the hands and draws i got… Looking forward to your valued suggestions and comments.

[maCHOOga]

Warping Wail keeps getting better and better. Seriously, you guys. Buy four and play them. In the worst case, cut one.



One of my LGS had four foils ones so I snap purchased them. Then I opened my two boxes of Oath and got two more foil ones. Does anyone need any foils? I don't need six; but I'll take it as an omen that I should be playing this card! :cool:

[MechTactical]

in the mean time i went all in on the lands plan and am testing something like this:

Land (29)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (7)
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Sorcery (7)
4x Life from the Loam
3x Show and Tell

Artifact (5)
3x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

any thoughts?

[mykatdied]

in the mean time i went all in on the lands plan and am testing something like this:

Land (29)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (7)
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Sorcery (7)
4x Life from the Loam
3x Show and Tell

Artifact (5)
3x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

any thoughts?

I actually am started to form a list that runs similar to turbo lands. It is interesting thus far. But horn of greed it hilarious.

[TheBoozeCube]

in the mean time i went all in on the lands plan and am testing something like this:

Land (29)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (7)
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Sorcery (7)
4x Life from the Loam
3x Show and Tell

Artifact (5)
3x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

any thoughts?

If you're going this route, you might want to consider Volrath's Stronghold, Academy Ruins, and/or Haven of the Spirit Dragon.


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[Mr. Froggy]

Players on MTGO are so freaking slow OMG....

I try to keep an relatively normal pace but wow... Not even in real life people are this slow..

I do really like what the deck is doing for me though, extremely powerful.

[k_omega]

I've been loving my list on MTGO, 3Spheres is killer for the meta I've been facing.
Dryad Arbor might get the boot though, not a card I've been feeling.


I used to play Dryad Arbor but cut it for Khalni Garden, and haven't looked back. It's nice to be able to get a creature with Crop Rotation, and although the Garden is not fetch-able it can be reused with Vesuva and doesn't set you back a land when you block (a huge deal for 12 post). It does make Green Sun's Zenith less useful but we don't have the space for a GSZ toolbox anyway and I've come to question the value of playing that card.

[Mr. Froggy]

I used to play Dryad Arbor but cut it for Khalni Garden, and haven't looked back. It's nice to be able to get a creature with Crop Rotation, and although the Garden is not fetch-able it can be reused with Vesuva and doesn't set you back a land when you block (a huge deal for 12 post). It does make Green Sun's Zenith less useful but we don't have the space for a GSZ toolbox anyway and I've come to question the value of playing that card.

I, for one, love GSZ. Playing Titan 5-8 is just amazing.

I'm gonna try Khalni Garden though. Forgot that land existed.

[TheBoozeCube]

I know it's probably heresy, but I'm leaning towards cutting a Top to make room for the 4th Warping Wail. I don't want to cut an Eldrazi, land, or sweeper. This leaves me the following:

4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Crop Rotation
4x Expedition Map
4x Candelabra
2x Top

Ancient Stirrings is the backbone of the deck. As long as I have a green source, it's almost always the best possible topdeck at any point.

Crop Rotation is a bit more dangerous because of countermagic, but it's still insane at any point. It stifles Wasteland, finds silver bullets at instant speed, and upgrades my extra Forests. I know some people don't play the full 4x, but I think it's far too powerful not to.

All things being equal, I'd rather see an Expedition Map than Top 90% of the time. It's not as fast as Crop, but I'd rather find the precise card I need than hope to get lucky in my top 3.

I could maybe see cutting a Candelabra. I played with 3x for a long time. But the raw power of Candelabra, especially in multiples, makes me extremely hesitant to cut it.

Since I don't play fetches (I hate Stifle and want guaranteed basics on the draw for K Grip), Top has been good but not as good for me as it is for other people. Even at 2x, it's not a card I ever want to see multiples of. I already have a tremendous amount of card selection between Ancient Stirrings and 8x straight-up tutors. Going down to 1x is painful, but it seems like the right call, assuming Warping Wail is as powerful as I hope.


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[Postman]

I'm on the UG build, and have cut candelabras down to only one copy. It's often one of the first cards I side out after game 1. Sometimes I'm even considering to cut it completely! A few weeks ago, Mr. Kassari wrote something about candelabra and why he doesn't play a single copy, and it sounds convincing. Candelabra can be huge, sure. But without Cloudposts in play it's often a dead card, and mana fixing isn't that relevant in most of the games I play. I like to see a needle in my starting 7, since it helps to protect my locus lands. What do the other UG guys think about candelabra? And how many copies do you play? Thanks!

[thelastbeast]

Candelabra has helped me get double green for too many early Prime Times, and helped me nullify too many Rishadan Ports, for me to think much about cutting it entirely. I typically run two copies in UG, though I side one of them out fairly frequently. I'm aware this may be me being biased by my own experience, though, and I'll have to check out Kassari's reasoning and probably give it a try at Legacy night some week.

[MechTactical]

Well i could only afford one candle so i'm running one obviously. i agree with thelastbeast that mana fixing comes up often enough to matter. i'm running trinket with EE so the candle fits nicely in the deck, when i need it i fetch it. i also board it out in many games... Candle can win games and i think we shouldn't cut it completely. Additionally many players are afraid of it and tend to treat it as a high priority target. In this respect you can get rid of removal or counters to clear the way, as described in the primer... and if they leave it laying around the battlefield it can backfire on them very quickly!

[maCHOOga]

I'm on the UG build, and have cut candelabras down to only one copy. It's often one of the first cards I side out after game 1. Sometimes I'm even considering to cut it completely! A few weeks ago, Mr. Kassari wrote something about candelabra and why he doesn't play a single copy, and it sounds convincing. Candelabra can be huge, sure. But without Cloudposts in play it's often a dead card, and mana fixing isn't that relevant in most of the games I play. I like to see a needle in my starting 7, since it helps to protect my locus lands. What do the other UG guys think about candelabra? And how many copies do you play? Thanks!

I have two candelabras and usually play both in my UG build. You could get away with one if your playing trinket mage(s). I had one candle for the longest time until I stockpiled enough credit to get a 2nd. There are games where I just whoops I win when I've drawn a candelabra. I've also had the scenario where I've drawn it and it does absolutely nothing. You haven't experienced ug post until your opponent plays choke and you start untapping your islands with a Candelabra. Also, drawing the pair of candels is always bad. :frown:

[Mr. Froggy]

Can Courser of Kruphix replace Oracle of Mul Daya?

I rarely go for Oracle with GSZ (when I do its just so I can have a blocker). I'm asking because Courser gains life when you lay down a land.

[Blastoderm]

Can Courser of Kruphix replace Oracle of Mul Daya?

I rarely go for Oracle with GSZ (when I do its just so I can have a blocker). I'm asking because Courser gains life when you lay down a land.

As a 1-of target sure. I would like more but the double green cost could be problematic.

[mykatdied]

Personally I like oracle for the extra land drops plus access to the top deck. Courser does give access to top deck but the 1 life each land is likely less relevant than the ramp that oracle can provide. 1 life gain is fine as well, but we already have Glimmerpost which can is still more efficient if we are getting extra land drops anyway. The only real upside past that for courser is the bolt proof back end. Both are likely fine in a GSZ build as a 1 of.

[TheBoozeCube]

Also, drawing the pair of candels is always bad. :frown:

I'm curious why you don't like drawing multiple candles? In my experience (with mono-G), multiple candles are extremely powerful and enable huge amounts of mana with only a few posts out. For example, 2x candles + 2x Cloudposts = Ugin.


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[Davek]

I'm curious why you don't like drawing multiple candles? In my experience (with mono-G), multiple candles are extremely powerful and enable huge amounts of mana with only a few posts out. For example, 2x candles + 2x Cloudposts = Ugin.


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I think it dependson the fact that you are talking about some sort of "5 cards combo" (double untapped post + double candelabra in play and ugin in hand) that it's not so common to see in your starting or so hand. Double candelabra + single post = why am i running these expensive ancient cards in my nice deck? (i love ancient cards btw)

[TheBoozeCube]

I think it dependson the fact that you are talking about some sort of "5 cards combo" (double untapped post + double candelabra in play and ugin in hand) that it's not so common to see in your starting or so hand. Double candelabra + single post = why am i running these expensive ancient cards in my nice deck? (i love ancient cards btw)

It's not exactly a crazy 5-card "combo" here. We're just talking about having a couple of Cloudposts in play, which is kind of what the entire deck is designed to do. And I'm not just talking about having a T3 Ugin with a sweet opener. I'm talking about situations like being down to 2x Posts because your others have been hit by Wasteland and you desperately need mana to wipe a board full of creatures. Topdecking a second candle midgame so I can immediately cast Ugin or Dust that's been stuck in hand has saved my life so many times I can't even count. Or to be able to cast Kozilek or Ulamog off a meh board like 1x Cloud, 2x Glimmers, and a Forest. Basically, I'm just talking about normal game situations. Candelabra lets you do more with less. Multiples, even more so.


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[hymnyou]

this thread is confusing. Two totally different decks getting discussed in one thread, really should be a separate mono-green thread.

[Mr. Froggy]

this thread is confusing. Two totally different decks getting discussed in one thread, really should be a separate mono-green thread.

I think you're right about this. Even if both plans are to kill with Eldrazi I think the decks are too different to stay in the same thread. As much as it pains me to admit.

EDIT: As much as I love 3Sphere, I think the CMC is too weird for the deck.

[ESG]

this thread is confusing. Two totally different decks getting discussed in one thread, really should be a separate mono-green thread.

It shouldn't be an issue if people provide the courtesy of saying which version they play. Most people specify, as TheBoozeCube did above. If there are a lot of changes or new tech, a deck list is helpful. UG and Mono-G are very similar, and the Post archetype hasn't been standardized, aside from the Locus lands in tandem with Primeval Titan and usually other ways to find lands and pre-emptively stop Wasteland. If you've been following this thread for a while, you'll remember all sorts of builds and different splashes Rock Lee played, and some of those were more different than Mono-G but didn't need different threads.

[MechTactical]

It shouldn't be an issue if people provide the courtesy of saying which version they play. Most people specify, as TheBoozeCube did above. If there are a lot of changes or new tech, a deck list is helpful. UG and Mono-G are very similar, and the Post archetype hasn't been standardized, aside from the Locus lands in tandem with Primeval Titan and usually other ways to find lands and pre-emptively stop Wasteland. If you've been following this thread for a while, you'll remember all sorts of builds and different splashes Rock Lee played, and some of those were more different than Mono-G but didn't need different threads.

agreed, i would have to follow two thread instead of one. and besides the thread is more alive with our little green friends chatting on it so enjoyably. at least we have the same win conditions...

i had an interesting game yesterday against merfolk. post board he put in gilded drake. it won the game getting my titan into 4x wasteland. this seems like a real hate card for SnT. Did/t see it before...

[mykatdied]

i had an interesting game yesterday against merfolk. post board he put in gilded drake. it won the game getting my titan into 4x wasteland. this seems like a real hate card for SnT. Did/t see it before...

Ouch is all I have to say about that. At least you still got 1 trigger off primeval titan. Would have been nice if he tutored wasteland and you top deck needle. Haha.

The decks are certainly similar enough and each variant can borrow from the other to an extent. Show and tell turn 3 into natural order turn 4 for be delightful at worst.

[Emrakul503]

I am finally trading out of Sneak and Show, into 12 post. Is there any reason to keep Force of Wills? I do not see lists run them very often, but if they are worth keeping, I will hold onto them. Thoughts?

[mykatdied]

I am finally trading out of Sneak and Show, into 12 post. Is there any reason to keep Force of Wills? I do not see lists run them very often, but if they are worth keeping, I will hold onto them. Thoughts?

As far as finance goes force of will maintains its price and usually goes up of anything. I would hold onto it.

[Emrakul503]

As far as finance goes force of will maintains its price and usually goes up of anything. I would hold onto it.

I thought that same thing, but I meant more "Are there 12 post lists playing Force and this point in it's evolution?" I see a lot of lists are not even playing blue any more, so I thought I would ask. I would lean more toward a non blue version but I like Show and Tell as a card, and cannot afford 3 Candleabras at this time

[Postman]

I thought that same thing, but I meant more "Are there 12 post lists playing Force and this point in it's evolution?" I see a lot of lists are not even playing blue any more, so I thought I would ask. I would lean more toward a non blue version but I like Show and Tell as a card, and cannot afford 3 Candleabras at this time
IMO you don't need FoW at this moment, and candelabra "only" as a one-off. I'm not absolutly sure to keep it in the deck, but just read the last 2-3 pages ;-) but you should run at least 3 copies of Flusterstorm in the sideboard to fight storm..

[mykatdied]

I thought that same thing, but I meant more "Are there 12 post lists playing Force and this point in it's evolution?" I see a lot of lists are not even playing blue any more, so I thought I would ask. I would lean more toward a non blue version but I like Show and Tell as a card, and cannot afford 3 Candleabras at this time

If you have Belcher and oops all spells in your local meta, it would help to have it. If not flusterstorm and other counters like spell pierce are fine.

[TheBoozeCube]

If you have Belcher and oops all spells in your local meta, it would help to have it. If not flusterstorm and other counters like spell pierce are fine.

And don't forget we have Warping Wail now!

I've been testing it with it this afternoon now that it's finally on MTGO. It is everything that I had hoped it would be and more.

[mykatdied]

And don't forget we have Warping Wail now!

I've been testing it with it this afternoon now that it's finally on MTGO. It is everything that I had hoped it would be and more.

Isn't sphere of resistance just better against those decks if we can get 2 mana? I suppose it would give us multiple other answers to what can be problem match ups.

[TheBoozeCube]

Isn't sphere of resistance just better against those decks if we can get 2 mana? I suppose it would give us multiple other answers to what can be problem match ups.

You don't want Sphere main. WW is fantastic main. (And I have 4x Spheres in my board anyway.) WW has been great in almost every matchup I've played with it. It's countermagic that also exiles about 2/3 of the most commonly played creatures in Legacy. Sphere is powerful, but very narrow (Storm, Elves, OmniTell, High Tide, maybe Infect and dedicated Pyromancer/Mentor decks).




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[mykatdied]

You don't want Sphere main. WW is fantastic main. (And I have 4x Spheres in my board anyway.) WW has been great in almost every matchup I've played with it. It's countermagic that also exiles about 2/3 of the most commonly played creatures in Legacy. Sphere is powerful, but very narrow (Storm, Elves, OmniTell, High Tide, maybe Infect and dedicated Pyromancer/Mentor decks).




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Oh, you were talking about mainboard. How much have you tested with it as of now? Personally I am on a more proactive ramp approach, so there is limited room in my mainboard for it.

[mykatdied]

This is a recent list that I have formed and will likely begin testing Tuesday for my LGS legacy night. I am borrowing some old tech from Rock Lee in Bonfire of the damned. Noxious revival may be wrong but setting up Bonfire after a cast, getting cloudposts back from the yard etc. Life from the loam seems like it could be good to continue to thin the deck and with only Emrakul as a legendary shuffle trigger, it may work out ok. The sideboard is mostly tuned anti combo as that is naturally one of the weaknesses of the non blue builds. I may test Warping Wail in place of Noxious Revival instead. I am excited to Mina and Denn, Windborn as I think it could be some decent tech to save cloudposts from wasteland, give us additional land drops and could serve as a beater in a pinch as well. Since I had to splash red I figured my old Bonfires could get some play at the same time. Should hopefully be fun. I wanted to completely drop the natural order package that I favor in my G build, but it just steals some games so I put it in the board for now until I decide whether or not I want to lose it completely.

Deck 12 post (60)

Lands 27
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Taiga
4 Vesuva
4 Wooded Foothills

Creatures 12
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells 21
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard 15
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Natural Order
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

Edit: I only have 1 Bonfire and I really want to test Kozilek's return, especially vs DnT. I did some play testing and really wasn't impressed with life from the loam (duh) and missed ancient stirrings. I dropped warping wail because it just doesn't seem all that great. The creatures it answers just doesn't add up to what I want answered by it.

[Mr. Froggy]

And don't forget we have Warping Wail now!

I've been testing it with it this afternoon now that it's finally on MTGO. It is everything that I had hoped it would be and more.

I wish I could say the same thing, probably getting match ups where the card stays in my hand doing absolutely nothing...

[Morden]

here I am, after a medium tournament (~50 people). It went bad, but I still wanna share the report to discuss some strategies and cards.
The list was this:

2 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
3 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Expedition Map
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wail
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Endbringer

here the matchups:

1)miracle, 0-2: he is one of the best player in europe, so I know his deck and I know also that I cannot make a mistake at all. Game 1 he puts a sensei on turn 1 and a mentor on turn 3, clock is too big and I cannot stop him. Game 2 begins better, I succede to put 3 cloudpost and an eye of ugin in play. In his EOT I tutor for Nulamog. I play it during my turn: on the battlefield he has a sensei and a clique. Since my life is 15, I decide to exile his tundra and volcanic island. After declaring the target, he uses sensei revealing entreat the angels, putting 3 angels. Ok......

2)miracle, 2-0: I don't know the player, so I don't know exactly if my hand is good or not. Game 1 is slow for both of us, he doens't find a mentor or other menaces and I play a titan covered by cavern of souls. Easy ramp with no problem. Game 2 he plays of course more aggressive, putting a snapcaster, a clique and a mentor on play. When I see a mentor coming into play I decide to krosan grip his sensei: this gives me some turns, just in time to find Ugin and exile everything.

3) merfolks, 0-2: I don't know the player, his first move is island->ponder (after a mulligan to 5). On his second turn he plays cursecatcher. Here my first big error: I have warping wail in hand and sensei on the field. On my turn I decide to use sensei and not exile the cursecatcher (or let him sacrifice it to counter the wail). I tought I had more time and I wanted to sculpt my hand.....but after the cursecatcher he plays two lord and so I cannot play kozilek's return or warping wail anymore. On G2 I bring in 3 krosan grip, knowing that deck plays Back to basics. Here a little error: viewing platinum emperion in my hand, I decide to use a crop rotation on the basic forest to reach another cloudpost (one is already in play). He forces pitching a back to basic! O_o good, he's under pressure. I have a S&T and a titan in hand (but he has 2 coursecatcher, so it' early to S&T). after some rounds S&T resolves, putting a titan. after this, he plays back to basics. game goes veeery long, I keep putting cloudpost/glimmerpost/vesuva into play gaining life and hoping for a krosan grip, it doesn't arrive and I die by a sad true name namesis with islandwalk......

4) burn 0-2: I know this player and I feel very sad. Not having glacial chasm, my only hope is S&T->emperion. I have sensei on g1 and I try in anyway to have some piece of salvation, but on his fourth turn he plays TWO price of progress -_-. 12 damages + goblin guide + swiftspear, gg. On g2 I have one sphere in hand, but on his first turn he plays a goblin guide and on the second a swiftspear. He keeps doing some damage on every turn, playing 1/2 spells a turn. I play S&T on titan with mana open for a BEB, but in response he plays price of progress (countered) and a fireblast (he has 4 mountains). very sad.

5) manaless dredge 2-0: well, nothing to say, here everything is done by bojuka bog. On G1 I S&T into titan on turn 3, G2 I start with bojuka, pass, relic.

6) splinter twin 1-2: he is a crazy friend of mine that plays FOUR chalice of the void and THREE blood moon maindeck. G1 is IMPOSSIBLE to me (you can play arounc chalice only if you have S&T, there is NOTHING you can do agains a turn1 chalice). G2 I exile with warping some of his creatures and grip a bloodmoon. G3 he resolves a chalice and a blood on turn 2, I see only beb and no krosan.

so, some notes:
a) the main point, the splash with red. I found that mana fixing was not a problem, after the first tropical you can get a taiga or a volcanic and you are ready to play everything you need. It kozilek's return that I found useless: against miracle it doesn't kill mentor (he can play a simple brainstorm in response to make the mentor a 3/3); against merfolks also, it's useless if all of them are 3/3. Kozilek's return doens't trigger from the graveyard witha an emperion or a titan also. So I think I'm gonna remove the red splash in this way:
-1 taiga, + 1 forest
-1 volcanic, +1 ???(see point B)
-1 kozilek's return, +1 Engineered Explosives
-1 kozilek's return, +1 spatial contortion/warping wail/I don't know.
EE is not my favourite card, but can be played on first turns and removes easily chalice of the void. I wanna try also spatial contortion, can be useful to remove pieces that cannot be removed by wail or EE. And makes also the titan a 9/3 with trample....
b) the replacement for volcanic can be Glacial Chasm......I really hate this card, but I have to admit that now it is good also against miracle: mentor/sensei is a 2 turn kill, and that deck has no way to remove a chasm. Perfect also against infect. Not with burn, I think against this deck is just a matter of luck: you play chasm, you keep having damage and he keeps filling his hand with shots; you have to find a platinum in 2/3 turn or you are dead anyway.
c) sphere of resistance: after the game with burn, the player told me that he is very surprised that my deck brings spheres against him, and he saw this everytime he plays against cloudpost. In his opinion, spheres are not so good against him, since he can have some pieces on the battlefield and keep doing his game. If we could play sphere on turn 1 probably it would be different. He thinks that trinisphere is much much better. I don't really know.......trinisphere means waiting another turn, but indeed it can be played on turn 2 with cloudpost+glimmerpost. And in this scenario is of course much better than sphere of resistance. Trinisphere means "we play one spell per round", that it's awesome also against counter. I don't know, I changed a lot of time from trini to spere, I still don't know which is the better.
d) sensei's divining top is great, we know. What do you think to replace one of them with a sylvan library? The advantage:
-I can play it with a chalice of the void on 1
-I can name sensei with needle and still sculpt my hand: this wuold be very powerfull against miracle
-I can draw an extra card (I can do this also with 2 sensei on the field, but I need a shuffle effect)
-Some matchups bring Null rod against us, it really hurts if we don't have a krosan in hand
Downsides:
-it's slower.
-can be used only once per round
-need green mana

for the moment I'm done, I have another big tournament next week in Milan (~300 people) and I will make for sure some modifications.
Thanks everyone for the reading and suggestions!!!

[deadlock]

Keep up the good discussion about single card choices like Candelabra etc. What I was wondering though, is concerned with the differently colored builds. I don't understand why people play mono-green for example. The deck is already vulnerable against land destruction / screw and more colors doesn't make this worse, as our opponents are forced to concentrate on our Locus-engine primarily. Therefore I always would start out with an Ug-build at least, if not play Ugw. The tournament report above is a testament of this. Getting overrun by creature, which cannot be handled by spot removal. This deck is a land utility deck as said, we add utility by adding colors. I don't deny that this has a price, but I think the upside of it, is much bigger. I am still not sure, if I like Ug or Ugw better, but Terminus is incredible powerful and can swing the game by itself. Ug can run Warping Wail in its place, which fits better into the deck (mana and versatility wise), but lacks in the problematic scenario described above.
The deck is pretty refined otherwise. In my opinion the last key development steps were, to have enough anti Wasteland cards (Crop, Needle, Strifle, Trickbind) and 4 Show and Tell including enough creatures to support it. With the previous discussion in mind, I would also argue that Trinket Mage is also pretty good in here (including a number of targets) as he somewhat resolves the Candelabra contradiction and gives us virtual copies of the other key artifacts.
Finally to those who have trouble with Magus / Blood Moon (and run Ug), I suggest that you re-add a pair Blue Elemental / Hydroblasts back to your board. It's further use is that it helps in the fast / aggressive match-ups like Burn and Delver splashing red.

[hymnyou]

I play UG currently. At Atlanta Legacy classic recently I was in 14th last round against DNT, which was a pair down (I had a win where he had a draw). It was the most miserable match ever, I lost to the deck and he got 13th and I got 28th-not a match I don't want to relive. I've def been served my dosage of wasteland but in truth it's a card that can be played around, 4 needles main in UG is a must. 2 candles proved to be wrong in my testing, I prefer two mages and one candle, offering the deck more consistency (and a blocker/edict which is huge). The card I like the least in UG is actually show and tell, playing 4 is a mistake in my opinion. Show and tell is basically just a bait card or 'look I got lucky' or 'damn I thought I was cute but now I am fucked.' I'd also say 3 CR's in UG is wrong, seems like you're throwing more chance to getting mana screwed. I think the UG needs more emphasis on removal. Not 100% sold on warping wail in UG, I think its better in G. I look forward to my 3rd candle arriving in the mail so I can start testing G and not playing show and tell anymore. Ancient stirrings seems much more powerful than brainstorm in this deck, not sure if I am going to see more consistency with G.

[Mr. Froggy]

Ancient stirrings seems much more powerful than brainstorm in this deck, not sure if I am going to see more consistency with G.

From what I can tell, G is extremely consistant (as in it repeats it's gameplan game after game). I'm just not sold on Warping Wail yet..

[hymnyou]

From what I can tell, G is extremely consistant (as in it repeats it's gameplan game after game). I'm just not sold on Warping Wail yet..

That's the one thing that interested me about UG. Is the deck has like 5 decks in one. The deck is really interesting and serves as a swiss army knife, possibly one of the hardest decks in all of legacy to correctly pilot.
I am keeping my pieces for both UG and G, look forward to extensive G testing. Froggy I sent you a PM about your recent list.

[Morden]

I don't wanna enter the debate between UG and G too much; personally I prefer UG because I think it can provide more solutions against several matchups (simply I can find cards in a pool of 2 colors rather than 1) and S&T into titan/emperion is a great clock it resolves. I don't think it is a bait card, on the contrary, it helps our ramping plan. If it's a plan A or B depends on the number of it and the number of candelabra. Personally I think that if you wanna raise the number of candelabra, is better play the G version.
I don't like trinket mage, it's too slow: searching for a sensei or a needle on turn 3 usually is too late and if you wanna search a candelabra....better insert another one rather the insert a cc3. Things can be different if you also have Engineered Explosives, but I still don't like this card because you are revealing your plan: unless you can play immediately what you tutored for, you are giving your opponent some information about you gamplan. This brings to the reason why I loved Terminus (and probably will insert again): no one expects this card, no one play around it (g1) and on g2 or g3 is only better if they reduce their clock. We have Karakas, that gives white mana.
A lot of people tell me during the game (or after) that they didn't understand what I was playing: this is a precious aspect of our deck, and I want to use gaining the maximum profit.

[k_omega]

Made 9th (5-2 in matches, 11-3 in games) out of 91 players at a local 5k yesterday with the following Gw list:
-------------------------
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost
3 Forest, Misty Rainforest
2 Vesuva, Cavern of Souls
1 Savannah, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Karakas, Glacial Chasm, Khalni Garden, Thespian's Stage, Dark Depths
-------------------------
4 Primeval Titan
2 Oracle of Mul Daya, Ugin
1 Emrakul, Kozilek Butcher of Truth, Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger
-------------------------
4 Crop Rotation, Top
3 Expedition Map, Pithing Needle
2 Explore
1 Ancient Stirrings, Candelabra, GSZ, All is Dust, Moment's Peace

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sacred Ground, Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle, Surgical Extraction

I chose this list to test Warping Wail (I only own 1, otherwise I would have played 2), double Explore, and no Relic of Progenitus. To keep the graveyard interaction at an acceptable amount I cut the 1 SB Hangarback I've been using for a Surgical Extraction, since it is strong against the Lands decks that are prominent in my area. Warping Wail only showed up in matchups that are already solidly in my favor so no useful results there. Explore ranged from being a 2-mana blind cantrip to being a crucial element of victory - I'm happy keeping it at 2 copies. I never missed Relic, though I think that has more to do with the matchups I faced than the card itself.

Match reports:

Round 1: 0-2 vs. Death and Taxes
Game 1: I mulligan to Kozilek, Primeval Titan, 2 Map, Explore, Heath and scry a Glimmerpost on top. This is the kind of hand where Explore is primed to be terrible and it was. Nevertheless, I assemble enough mana to cast Titan through my opponent's single Port, but a second Port shows up to lock out the second Cloudpost on the key turn. Glacial Chasm staves off lethal for two turns but it is not enough. Ironically, my last draw step is the first Needle of the game and that would have resulted in a win if it had arrived a few turns earlier.
SB: -1 Depths, Bog, Cavern, Top, Stirrings. +2 Grip, +2 Sacred Ground, +1 Needle
Game 2: I keep Cloudpost, Vesuva, Ugin, Needle, Garden, Forest, and Ulamog and lead with the Cloudpost. It gets Wastelanded. I draw some lands and play them, deciding to wait to deploy the Needle until a target appears. My opponent plays a Port and I needle it, since my Garden was Wastelanded previously and I figured 2 Wastelands was all I was likely to face. Naturally, my opponent topdecks a Wasteland for the key Cloudpost. I'm forced to get Chasm and hope to draw mana for Zenith->Oracle and then topdeck Titan+Lands. It did not happen.

In retrospect, I think I tried to get too fancy with the Needles. With Candelabra I have a maindeck answer to Ports and should therefore be more concerned with actual land destruction. I may also have overvalued Krosan Grip; I really wanted the second copy and cut Stirrings for it, but I think the focus should be on resolving Titan or a sweeper rather than artifact spot removal. I never saw either copy, but would have happily taken a Stirrings at any point.

Round 2: 2-0 vs. Deathblade
In neither game did my opponent find a Wasteland, so he offered too little resistance and got crushed. I took an opportunity to Warping Wail a Stoneforge Mystic which seemed like a good idea at the time, but I probably should have held it to counter a later Thoughtseize.
SB: -1 Depths, +1 Grip

There will be a recurring theme of siding out Dark Depths. More on that later.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. Miracles
Shout out to my opponent here, who is building 12 Post and lurks in this thread. We had some good conversation about card choices after our match. Game 1 was the usual rout, with the notable feature of having my Warping Wail Forced when I use it to exile an annoying Clique. Ulamog arrives and exiles the Clique anyway. Ulamog gets Swords-ed, but in the process undoing my opponent's damage while I have Eye of Ugin in play. In Game 2 Explore allows me to ramp hard into Emrakul which prompts a concession.
SB: -1 Depths, -1 Needle, -2 Crop Rotation. +3 Grip, +1 Trinisphere

I wasn't sure if my opponent played Mentors, but I had four cards to take out and threw a Trinisphere into the remaining slot just in case.

Round 4: 2-0 vs. Miracles
Game 1 is a crushing victory. I mulligan in game 2 to a hand with 2 Titans, 3 Lands, and Krosan Grip which I keep rather than go to five cards. I scry away a Needle and immediately draw a Titan. We play a draw-land-pass game for a while, and I eventually Grip a Top in response to Counterbalance since my opponent's fetches seemed to indicate no Blood Moon. Over about 5 turns I draw the fourth titan and the sixth land, and the rain of Titans begins. The first two get countered but the third gets the Cloudposts to enable the fourth and eventually victory. I attack with Emrakul which prompts an Entreat for 5 angels, but Warping Wail shuts that down (I had mana to search and recast Emrakul so it was not necessary, but really fun).

Round 5: 2-0 vs. Death and Taxes
I redeem myself after my first-round loss to this deck. In game 1 my opponent has some disruption but floods out which allows Ulamog to close the game. Game 2 was quite close. I land an early Needle on Wasteland which protects my Savannah for a while, but it gets Flickerwisp-ed before I draw Sacred Ground allowing my opponent to double-Wasteland the Savannah and a Vesuva-copy of it. He has a Port in play which I name with the Needle when it returns. That Needle gets exiled by Council's Judgment and I am forced to Chasm to stave off Serra Avenger, Mirran Crusader, and Mother of Runes. I have a Top in play which allows Explore to set up a fresh Needle on Port + Cloudpost -> Glimmerpost + Kozilek, which lets me survive combat after letting go of the Chasm. I cast All is Dust which together with impending annihilator 4 induces a concession.
SB: I take my own advice and bring in only one Grip and keep the Stirrings. I did cast Stirrings and it was OK, showing only one colorless card.

Round 6: 2-0 vs. Abzan
Game 1 is close as I take some significant damage from Bob + Tarmogoyf, but a timely Ugin completely swings the game in my favor. In Game 2 my opponent mulligans to 5, whereas I have Needle on Wasteland into Explore into Oracle into absurd bombs. My opponent concedes after I Top-draw Primeval Titan, search for Ulamog, and reveal Ugin on top at the end of his turn.
SB: I saw Swords to Plowshares and anticipated Liliana/Decay/Wasteland, so -1 Depths +1 Needle

Round 7: 1-2 vs. Four-Color Loam
Game 1: Alas, the win-and-in is also the only fundamentally unsound matchup of the day. I am on the draw and my opponent starts with Wasteland + Mox Diamond into Chalice on one, whereas I have a hand with two lands and 5 one-drops. I manage to sneak a map and Candelabra through the Chalice and try to set up Stage-Depths. My opponent asks some questions that lead me to suspect he didn't understand the whole interaction, and when Knight of the Reliquary arrives I am forced to Stage-Depths on my turn in the face of untapped Wasteland. Unfortunately, my opponent does know what he's doing and wastes the Stage after copying in response to the sacrifice trigger. Knight serves lethal damage.

SB: -1 Top, -1 Crop Rotation, -1 Map, -1 Emrakul, -1 Warping Wail, -1 Ugin, -1 Candelabra. +3 Grip, +1 Needle, +1 Surgical Extraction, +2 Sacred Ground
Basically trying to reduce vulnerability to Chalice and trim expensive cards in favor of answers to Chalice and more tools for Wasteland. In hindsight I should have kept the Wail as a chump blocker and answer to Bob.

Game 2: I keep 7, my opponent mulligans to 6 and pauses before keeping what turns out to be a one-land hand. I have 2x Needle on Wasteland and resolve Primeval Titan for the win.

Game 3: My opponent keeps 7, I mulligan a 2-land, 0-needle hand into one with 5 lands and a Map. I eventually decide to keep and scry away a Top in anticipation of T1 Chalice. Indeed a Chalice on 1 appears and I play lands for a few turns. I draw and play Sacred Ground, which with Explore almost buys time to play Titan until Bob reveals Abrupt Decay on the critical turn. The tournament ends as it started with me hoping to topdeck Oracle -> good stuff which did not happen.

Conclusions:
1) Explore has earned its two slots. In all but one game where I drew one it was helpful and was directly responsible for a win. Incidentally, it reduces vulnerability to Chalice on 1 which is something.
2) Warping Wail did not show up against D&T but I would certainly have been glad to see it as Revokers were causing problems. I'd want to actually test another copy but I can certainly see playing 2.
3) I'm happy without maindeck Relics, but I question whether Surgical is the best tool to replace them. In the one matchup where I brought it in I would have preferred Rest in Peace which is also good against Lands. However, I don't like to rely on the white splash if I can avoid it. Thoughts?
4) I brought out Dark Depths in every round except one. Granted, those 6 matchups all involved Swords/Karakas/Terminus so it was justified, but I might move Depths to the sideboard since it is somewhat unreliable even against the BUG decks which it is supposed to address. On the other hand, it allows me to win from a low resource base which has been key against Pox-style decks. Those, however, are infrequent enough that it might be worthwhile to ignore them.
5) At no point did I think "I really wish old Kozilek were new Kozilek in this situation." In fact, annihilator 4 was crucial to a win where menace would have been completely irrelevant. I'm keeping the Butcher of Truth.

[TheBoozeCube]

Just placed 3rd at 1K Super IQ with mono-G (C/g). (39 people). I have to drive home, so I'll write up more later, but a few quick insights:
1) Warping Wail was the MVP all day long. That card is beyond insane. I even used the token mode to chump vs Infect where I couldn't Maze a Viridian Corrupter because he kicked Vines main phase. Running 4x was amazing.
2) I didn't really miss Top. I don't play fetches, so Top wasn't at its best anyway, but still. They'll stay gone.
3) Sideboarding is a lot more challenging when I can't just auto cut Exploration in non-combo matchups.
4) I don't know if I've mentioned it, but OMG Warping Wail!!!! Seriously, it handily won me games vs what were once unfavorable-to-bad matchups: 2x Goblins, Infect, Omni. And it was strong vs Shardless too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr. Froggy]

This is a recent list that I have formed and will likely begin testing Tuesday for my LGS legacy night. I am borrowing some old tech from Rock Lee in Bonfire of the damned. Noxious revival may be wrong but setting up Bonfire after a cast, getting cloudposts back from the yard etc. Life from the loam seems like it could be good to continue to thin the deck and with only Emrakul as a legendary shuffle trigger, it may work out ok. The sideboard is mostly tuned anti combo as that is naturally one of the weaknesses of the non blue builds. I may test Warping Wail in place of Noxious Revival instead. I am excited to Mina and Denn, Windborn as I think it could be some decent tech to save cloudposts from wasteland, give us additional land drops and could serve as a beater in a pinch as well. Since I had to splash red I figured my old Bonfires could get some play at the same time. Should hopefully be fun. I wanted to completely drop the natural order package that I favor in my G build, but it just steals some games so I put it in the board for now until I decide whether or not I want to lose it completely.

Deck 12 post (60)

Lands 27
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Taiga
4 Vesuva
4 Wooded Foothills

Creatures 12
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells 21
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard 15
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Natural Order
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

Edit: I only have 1 Bonfire and I really want to test Kozilek's return, especially vs DnT. I did some play testing and really wasn't impressed with life from the loam (duh) and missed ancient stirrings. I dropped warping wail because it just doesn't seem all that great. The creatures it answers just doesn't add up to what I want answered by it.

I'm going to test something close to this, this list intrigues me because of Kozilek's Return.

[TheBoozeCube]

I'm tired, so I'll do more of a write-up of the tournament tomorrow, but I'll post my newest list in the meantime. The sideboard needs some tweaking in light of Warping Wail, but the maindeck felt great all day long.

Colorless Green (C/g) 12 Post
3rd at 1K Super IQ (39 players)

Land
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
8 Forest

Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Spells
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle

Sideboard
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Stone

[Pdingo]

hei Guys

Lost in the Final of a 1K Tournament in Lucerne:

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Exploration
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Warping Wail

6 Rounds and Top 8:

2:0 Burg Pyromancer
2:0 Affinity
1:2 Infect (he was to fast, this Time, he know how to play against me and is a good friend)
2:0 DnT
2:1 Reanimator
Draw

Top 8:

2:1 ANT ( He drawer really bad with Cantrips, but also Sb Worked for me here very well)
2:1 DnT

and then finally a ,,Dream Final'' against Miracle but he had a special list i don't know.

1:2 ( On g1, I could cast a eye into everything next turn but then he played a Back to Basic. All my Posts are tapped right know(No Candel in play)...I can find back with a Ulamog, but after that i was on 4 life and have now two options, i could play Ugin but when he's get countered im dead or i can search for a Kozilek and draw 3 Cards for Glacial Chasm. I don't have enough mana for Emrakul. He had also 4 Fow and 1 Counterspell played, i was going for all in Ugin but he countered him so i lost..) (On g2 i lost because a bad Missplay with Krosan grip) First time i lost to Miracles but Back to Basic is a thing against us haha.

[mykatdied]

I'm going to test something close to this, this list intrigues me because of Kozilek's Return.

The moment I saw Mina and Denn I was intrigued. My fiance will be testing that deck Tuesday. If any changes I will update and hopefully provide some notes from her experience. She is a post pilot as well. I will be on a wonky brew that I had been challenged to make.

PDingo- game 1 back to basics is rough. Straight rude as a matter of fact. Sounds like it was a tough one, but you seem to know what you're doing since you made it to the finals and it took a "rogue" miracles list to beat you. I wouldn't worry too much. I know theboozecube really likes warping wail, but what is your opinion? I want to love it, but it just feels weird to have at any given time. I just always feel like I want something else. But I haven't used it in actual testing. Just goldfishing.

[cherson]

Made 9th (5-2 in matches, 11-3 in games) out of 91 players at a local 5k yesterday with the following Gw list:


Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sacred Ground, Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle, Surgical Extraction


Hi,

I play a similar sideboard like you do and saw u didn't use leylines at all due to the mu's I guess. but do u think we need it in general?
I mean great against burn/pox/bug..

how was sacred ground. I considered it many times but didn't test it once :(

[Mr. Froggy]

I want to love it, but it just feels weird to have at any given time. I just always feel like I want something else.

This is exactly how I feel about the card. In my testing (vs MTGO-Metagame) I have always wanted something different in my hand regardless of what my opponent was playing.

[MechTactical]

Congrats fellas on your finishes! I guess we all had our share of tournament play this weekend. I went 4-2 at a local event with UG, which is my best result thus far.

My losses were:
Burn: it could have been better, if I took mulligans to find SnT / titan hand, especially in the second game when I kept a 2x FoW + lands hand, hoping to blindly top something good… didn’t happen. My SB is specially dedicated to combo, burn etc so I’m kind of sad I didn’t take that mulligan. I was beating burn regularly, but haven’t played against it in a long time now.
Lands (Again!): the match up is more than winnable, I just didn’t have enough imagination or patience for it. I have to pull my shit together next time and just grind through it… oh and I made a huge error in game2, thinking my EE set on 0 can get rid of Marit Lage token... that was yeah, dumb! I thought I was smarter than that, but hey live and learn. Playing a second needle on wasteland instead of thespian stage was also a mistake.

Overall I was pretty satisfied with the list, despite the two losses:

Land (25)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (9)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Platinum Emperion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Trinket Mage
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Artifact (13)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Instant (9)
4x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
2x Repeal

Sorcery (4)
4x Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)
4x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karn Liberated
3x Krosan Grip
2x Tormod's Crypt

I’ll discuss my tournament experience through card choices:

Trinket mage:
In my opinion the card fits very well in the deck. Mage won a game against deathblade on turn 4: played a needle on Liliana, which got FoW-ed, after that I played trinket fetching another needle, which resolved and probably won the game… there are many scenarios like this one where trinket shines. Trinket sometimes eats FoW, clearing the way for SnT… I don’t see myself dropping it soon, though I wouldn’t run more than one.
No glacial MB:
Despite my loss to burn I still think that it was the correct choice not to run it MB. Burn was the only match up i needed glacial. The deck runs more smoothly without glacial main, less mulligans, better top decks.
3 crop rotations:
There are just too many match-ups where crop is rotting in my hand (daze, spell pierce, counterbalance, FoW, etc.) for UG I think 3 is more than enough. I boarded them out completely in 3 out of 6 matches.
Tormod's Crypt:
I like it mainly because of trinket mage and the speed it comes down, unlike relic, which requires 1 to cast and 1 to activate. I’m not fighting tarmogoyf’s or DRS with GY hate anyway, so I see no need for relic at this point.
Karn / Platinum empirion:
I’m not impressed by either, but I guess I didn’t get the chance to resolve them in any match-up where they would matter. I would like to replace this slot with the new kozilek, but as you can see I’m missing 2 cmc spells in my list…
Kozilek:
During the tournament I landed kozilek several times and every time he was removed or sacked (only once with Liliana), so I didn’t get a single annihilator trigger of it. This is why I wouldn’t sign off the new Kozilek just yet. I will definitely try the new Kozilek, when I settle on a worthy 2 cmc spell to discard.
Ulamog:
He is admittedly better than the old one (except the art obviously), since I can tutor for him instead of kozilek and get 2x anything off the board. I’m hitting 15 mana (or 8 to fetch and cast next turn) so frequently in this build that it would be a shame not to have the choice between removal or card advantage at that point in the game. I guess he is the correct choice nowadays.
2 Vesuvas:
In my opinion running only 1 vesuva is not optimal for the deck. You get less opportunities to consistently pile up your cloudposts count. And having more copies of bojuka, glimmer, island and forest is always very nice.
Engineered Explosives:
I’m still not sold on EE (can be a bit slow), but they do run well with trinket and they do get that chalice off the board, protecting the 20 1cmc spells I run. They also ate some counters, which was fine by me as I always had a backup plan anyway. Though, it’s a shame we can’t cast EE on 3 frequently enough. I removed a 3rd repeal for the 2nd EE just before the tournament.
Pithing Needle:
I finally gave in and excepted I have to run needles in this deck. They are just too good and hit stuff I frequently lost to before, namely: liliana, wasteland. Trickbind / stifle just can’t replace needle.

[maCHOOga]

Made 9th (5-2 in matches, 11-3 in games) out of 91 players at a local 5k yesterday...


Well done sir! Between you and the other 12 post player who was next to me in Round 2, I've been inspired to put the band back together. One of my friends (who I assume you beat), was 5-2 on the day as well, with his two losses being 12post lol. Take that D&T!

I was there playing MUD, which ends up one of two ways: A.) I draw great on the day and put up easy wins or B.) I mulligan a lot and play terrible matchups. My Saturday experience was B lol. I did have an interesting game against RUG delver. He attacks with nimble mongoose, I warping wail to make a token. My opponent goes into the think tank for about a minute, sighs and lightning bolts the token.

Testing shall begin this week with UG including warping wail and kozilek, the G.D. maindeck. Unfortunately, my next large event is TBD.

[mykatdied]

Well done sir! Between you and the other 12 post player who was next to me in Round 2, I've been inspired to put the band back together. One of my friends (who I assume you beat), was 5-2 on the day as well, with his two losses being 12post lol. Take that D&T!

I was there playing MUD, which ends up one of two ways: A.) I draw great on the day and put up easy wins or B.) I mulligan a lot and play terrible matchups. My Saturday experience was B lol. I did have an interesting game against RUG delver. He attacks with nimble mongoose, I warping wail to make a token. My opponent goes into the think tank for about a minute, sighs and lightning bolts the token.

Testing shall begin this week with UG including warping wail and kozilek, the G.D. maindeck. Unfortunately, my next large event is TBD.

Did you at least make a colorless in response to the bolt? Cause that would be great. "Well, I don't have to worry about mana burn. Sac to make a colorless. Bolt fizzles."

[maCHOOga]

Did you at least make a colorless in response to the bolt? Cause that would be great. "Well, I don't have to worry about mana burn. Sac to make a colorless. Bolt fizzles."

Of course! :-D

[bruizar]

Of course! :-D

You made a warping snail :)

[mykatdied]

You made a warping snail :)

Then there was this... haha

[Mr. Froggy]

I love the G(r) Post deck... Kozilek's Return is such a beating for Delver decks

EDIT: Mina is also uber-combo with Glimmerpost and Friends

[mykatdied]

I love the G(r) Post deck... Kozilek's Return is such a beating for Delver decks

EDIT: Mina is also uber-combo with Glimmerpost and Friends

I am very excited to see how it runs tomorrow. My fiance has been playing post on and off for a while now, her first list was a mudd post with metalworker, no forgemaster. She ran my Mudd Eldrazi post list for a while and now she is going to test that list out. I will post her opinion and views on the deck hopefully tomorrow night. It should be exciting and fun at the very least. She goldfished a bit tonight and stated, "It's turn 5 and I am 1 mana short of casting kozilek's return and Kozilek, oh wait I have Mina and Denn out so I have another land drop." Proceeds to cast kozilek's return+Kozilek+top and drawing into eye, ulamog on top of library and now enough mana to cast ulamog and tutor+cast emrakul. Not bad for a turn 6 move?

[Mr. Froggy]

Honestly, Kozilek's Return is THE SHIT (gives us much needed breathing room vs Delver and Friends)

And Mina and Denn is craziness, with its 4/4 body I'm not afraid to attack with the card, and the repeatable ability is nuts. The card alone has gained me over 10 life in a match vs RUG Delver (she basically gave me the win).

[k_omega]

Hi,

I play a similar sideboard like you do and saw u didn't use leylines at all due to the mu's I guess. but do u think we need it in general?
I mean great against burn/pox/bug..

how was sacred ground. I considered it many times but didn't test it once :(

When I started I played Leylines, then cut them and recently decided to put them back. The problem is that Leyline alone doesn't stop Storm (the primary reason I have them at all) because it can be bounced and spheres alone don't stop them because they can be discarded. Both elements together, though, are a tough lock that pretty much shuts them down while hardly affecting us. I'd say that the Pox/BUG matches can be won without Leyline, but it does help and I'll board in some copies. I strongly advise not bringing in Leyline against Burn because it compels you to keep awkward hands and unlike Storm does not actually prevent Burn from winning. Use spheres instead.

I mentioned a strong Lands presence in my meta and Sacred Ground is mostly extra insurance against that deck (frees up needles to name things other than Wasteland, and simultaneously neuters the occasional Ghost Quarter), though I also bring it in against D&T to make Cataclysm less cataclysmic. It almost allowed me to beat 4C Loam which is a strong argument for the card. If you expect Wasteland + Chalice or lots of land destruction then I'd recommend it, and if Pox is a problem then you really can't do better than Sacred Ground.


Well done sir! Between you and the other 12 post player who was next to me in Round 2, I've been inspired to put the band back together. One of my friends (who I assume you beat), was 5-2 on the day as well, with his two losses being 12post lol. Take that D&T!
Thanks! I didn't realize there was another 12 Post player in the room. I did see a MUD player next to me a couple times though - not you.

How many red sources are you Mina and Denn experimenters using?

[Philipp2293]

Honestly, Kozilek's Return is THE SHIT (gives us much needed breathing room vs Delver and Friends)

And Mina and Denn is craziness, with its 4/4 body I'm not afraid to attack with the card, and the repeatable ability is nuts. The card alone has gained me over 10 life in a match vs RUG Delver (she basically gave me the win).

Also, Courser and Mina in play at the same time mean a steady stream of 2 life per turn even if you don't have any Glimmerposts.

Could you post or PM your current list as I might pick up Kozilek's Return for Standard and Modern anyway and Mina is not that expensive :)

[mykatdied]

Personally going to just try the 3 taiga, but a single mountain may come into the mix if wasteland proves to be that problematic.

I am running both courser and Mina for that exact reason. Access to the top deck lands and some additional aggro protection with life gain for burn.

[maCHOOga]

Honestly, Kozilek's Return is THE SHIT (gives us much needed breathing room vs Delver and Friends)

And Mina and Denn is craziness, with its 4/4 body I'm not afraid to attack with the card, and the repeatable ability is nuts. The card alone has gained me over 10 life in a match vs RUG Delver (she basically gave me the win).

Please tell me there's a bonfire of the damned and/or through the breach somewhere there too. :-)

[Mr. Froggy]

Also, Courser and Mina in play at the same time mean a steady stream of 2 life per turn even if you don't have any Glimmerposts.

Could you post or PM your current list as I might pick up Kozilek's Return for Standard and Modern anyway and Mina is not that expensive :)

Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Taiga
3 Vesuva
3 Wooded Foothills

Creatures
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells
3 Ancient Stirrings
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Crop Rotation
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Trinisphere
3 Expedition Map

I know, I cut the Candels from my deck.. But in my testing I haven't missed them much and here is why: since we don't have the fastest Combo deck out there, I try to slow down the opponent as much as possible while not hurting me nearly as much since I have a billion mana to play with.

Also, I cut the DD/Stage combo from this list since I've been finding that this version has enough win-cons and if ever I'm adding another one its definitely a second Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (have you guys noticed this guy kicks total ass?).

On a side note, I've been seeing A LOT of 12Post online lately (Mono-Green and UG).

EDIT: I'm gonna try a Bonfire because why not!

[mykatdied]

Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Taiga
3 Vesuva
3 Wooded Foothills

Creatures
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells
3 Ancient Stirrings
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Crop Rotation
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Trinisphere
3 Expedition Map

I know, I cut the Candels from my deck.. But in my testing I haven't missed them much and here is why: since we don't have the fastest Combo deck out there, I try to slow down the opponent as much as possible while not hurting me nearly as much since I have a billion mana to play with.

Also, I cut the DD/Stage combo from this list since I've been finding that this version has enough win-cons and if ever I'm adding another one its definitely a second Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (have you guys noticed this guy kicks total ass?).

On a side note, I've been seeing A LOT of 12Post online lately (Mono-Green and UG).

EDIT: I'm gonna try a Bonfire because why not!

Nice list. Very similar to mine. I think my list is a bit more on the ramp side with candels. But I like where you went with yours. The bonfire is something I wanted to test with but I feel as though we need noxious revival if we don't have brainstorm to put them back. At least that way we can cast it for a small amount early to slow our opponent down and a larger amount later to potentially finish them off.

How have you felt with the 3 taiga as your red sources? I will figure that out tonight, but I believe you said you have already tested a bit.

[Mr. Froggy]

3 Taigas have been fine actually, been plenty of R for my spells.

[maCHOOga]

3 Taigas have been fine actually, been plenty of R for my spells.

So what's your plan against Combo / what's in the SB. Pyrostatic pillar? REBs?

[mykatdied]

So what's your plan against Combo / what's in the SB. Pyrostatic pillar? REBs?

I forgot about pillar! That's a good idea. I was trying to think of a red card to hose combo a bit.

[Mr. Froggy]

So what's your plan against Combo / what's in the SB. Pyrostatic pillar? REBs?

My sb is kind of helter skelter:

4 Leyline of Sanctity (way too good to remove)
3 Krosan Grip
4 Warping Wail
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sphere of Resistance

EDIT: Mina and Denn, Wildborn is completely ridiculous. The ability is just way too amazing...

[ChemicalBurns]

Hello there 12Posters! I myself am not a player (I play D&T and Delver variants), but I thought I'd post up a recent Japanese list that looks very interesting considering I've seen people here toying with RG lists at the moment. It can be found here:

http://mtg.bigmagic.net/article/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%90%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8/%E3%82%B0%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BB%E5%90%8D%E5%8F%A4%E5%B1%8B2016/legacy_TOP8%E3%83%87%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88

Takashi Hasegawa

Lands: (26)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Vesuva
3 Taiga
2 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest

Creatures: (9)
3 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Non-Creature Spells: (25)
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Punishing Fire
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Crop Rotation
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard: (15)
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Warping Wail
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sundering Titan
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pithing Needle

As an outsider looking in these numbers look really nice and the list looks really impressive. I love the Thought-Knot Seer as an angle of disruption typically unaccessible to non-blue lists. As a D&T player Kozilek's Return and Punishing Fire makes me weep too.

But yes, lots of new technology here, hopefully you guys can get some use out of this, 12Post is looking to have a lot of new toys to play with!

Thanks!

[mykatdied]

Hello there 12Posters! I myself am not a player (I play D&T and Delver variants), but I thought I'd post up a recent Japanese list that looks very interesting considering I've seen people here toying with RG lists at the moment. It can be found here:

http://mtg.bigmagic.net/article/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%90%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8/%E3%82%B0%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BB%E5%90%8D%E5%8F%A4%E5%B1%8B2016/legacy_TOP8%E3%83%87%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88

Takashi Hasegawa

Lands: (26)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Vesuva
3 Taiga
2 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest

Creatures: (9)
3 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Non-Creature Spells: (25)
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Punishing Fire
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Crop Rotation
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard: (15)
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Warping Wail
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sundering Titan
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pithing Needle

As an outsider looking in these numbers look really nice and the list looks really impressive. I love the Thought-Knot Seer as an angle of disruption typically unaccessible to non-blue lists. As a D&T player Kozilek's Return and Punishing Fire makes me weep too.

But yes, lots of new technology here, hopefully you guys can get some use out of this, 12Post is looking to have a lot of new toys to play with!

Thanks!

Thank you for posting that. The list looks good. Need more Mina and Denn in my opinion.

[Morden]

I’ll discuss my tournament experience through card choices:

Trinket mage:
In my opinion the card fits very well in the deck. Mage won a game against deathblade on turn 4: played a needle on Liliana, which got FoW-ed, after that I played trinket fetching another needle, which resolved and probably won the game… there are many scenarios like this one where trinket shines. Trinket sometimes eats FoW, clearing the way for SnT… I don’t see myself dropping it soon, though I wouldn’t run more than one.
No glacial MB:
Despite my loss to burn I still think that it was the correct choice not to run it MB. Burn was the only match up i needed glacial. The deck runs more smoothly without glacial main, less mulligans, better top decks.
3 crop rotations:
There are just too many match-ups where crop is rotting in my hand (daze, spell pierce, counterbalance, FoW, etc.) for UG I think 3 is more than enough. I boarded them out completely in 3 out of 6 matches.
Tormod's Crypt:
I like it mainly because of trinket mage and the speed it comes down, unlike relic, which requires 1 to cast and 1 to activate. I’m not fighting tarmogoyf’s or DRS with GY hate anyway, so I see no need for relic at this point.
Karn / Platinum empirion:
I’m not impressed by either, but I guess I didn’t get the chance to resolve them in any match-up where they would matter. I would like to replace this slot with the new kozilek, but as you can see I’m missing 2 cmc spells in my list…
Kozilek:
During the tournament I landed kozilek several times and every time he was removed or sacked (only once with Liliana), so I didn’t get a single annihilator trigger of it. This is why I wouldn’t sign off the new Kozilek just yet. I will definitely try the new Kozilek, when I settle on a worthy 2 cmc spell to discard.
Ulamog:
He is admittedly better than the old one (except the art obviously), since I can tutor for him instead of kozilek and get 2x anything off the board. I’m hitting 15 mana (or 8 to fetch and cast next turn) so frequently in this build that it would be a shame not to have the choice between removal or card advantage at that point in the game. I guess he is the correct choice nowadays.
2 Vesuvas:
In my opinion running only 1 vesuva is not optimal for the deck. You get less opportunities to consistently pile up your cloudposts count. And having more copies of bojuka, glimmer, island and forest is always very nice.
Engineered Explosives:
I’m still not sold on EE (can be a bit slow), but they do run well with trinket and they do get that chalice off the board, protecting the 20 1cmc spells I run. They also ate some counters, which was fine by me as I always had a backup plan anyway. Though, it’s a shame we can’t cast EE on 3 frequently enough. I removed a 3rd repeal for the 2nd EE just before the tournament.
Pithing Needle:
I finally gave in and excepted I have to run needles in this deck. They are just too good and hit stuff I frequently lost to before, namely: liliana, wasteland. Trickbind / stifle just can’t replace needle.

another friend in blue, I'm feeling not alone anymore!:laugh:
about your points:

trinket mage: I think there is always something better than this card, but if you have free slots it's a good candidate.
glacial chasm: I think the same, I will test another tournament without it and let you know.
crop rotation: You are right, I will probably drop to 2. It depends also on how many needles/trickbind a list has.
tormond: I disagree. Relic makes you draw a card, can be play on turn 1 also, and it's still good against tarmo/DRS (what do you have against them that is versatile as it is?)
platinum: sometimes a S&T into platinum is better than titan, you automatically win some games and against StP you still gain 8 life (that can be really useful for this deck). I put 2 of them since I dropped glacial chasm, but in general I would not go under 1 copy.
kozilek: old is gold
ulamog: new is.....gold. XD
vesuvas: yeah, 2 is the perfect number for this card.
EE: like trinket mage.
needle: I think this card is a MUST, but looking at your list.....you have FOW in sideboard, don't you think is better to replace needle with trickbind to have more blue cards to pitch?

[Mr. Froggy]

Thank you for posting that. The list looks good. Need more Mina and Denn in my opinion.

I second you, Mina and Denn wrecks the shit

[Rock Lee]

Finally found a build I am happy with.

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [OGW] Wastes

Went 3-0 with weekly magic. matchups were Lands, Jund, Moggcatcher. all 2-0'd.

[Mr. Froggy]

Finally found a build I am happy with.

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [OGW] Wastes

Went 3-0 with weekly magic. matchups were Lands, Jund, Moggcatcher. all 2-0'd.

How do you like Kozilek 2.0? I'm not really fond of the card as of yet. I rarely go for it.

[Philipp2293]

Am I mad for thinking that Kozilek's Return should be paired with MD Relic of Progenitus? Since many of the common creatures which survive KR either gain their size throught the GY (Tarmogoyf, Mongoose, Knight of the Reliquary) or are cast using the GY as a resource (Tasigur, Gurmag Angler).

[mykatdied]

Am I mad for thinking that Kozilek's Return should be paired with MD Relic of Progenitus? Since many of the common creatures which survive KR either gain their size throught the GY (Tarmogoyf, Mongoose, Knight of the Reliquary) or are cast using the GY as a resource (Tasigur, Gurmag Angler).

That is quite possible. I suppose I would just be concerned at not getting the other side of it for 5 damage which can also get them if we don't have relic which we may have to use to exile it.

My fiance was very impressed with the r splash build. Courser gives the deck a bit of an increase in life gain and as someone suggested that a courser and Mina means you can gain 2 life a turn just from normal land drops. She went 3-1 at our LGS last night. She beat me round 1. Deck was just as scary as post tends to be. I was on a weird nic fit counterbalance brew I was challenged to brew for my column. The deck trashed me as countertop and nic fit are the 2 match ups I think post loves the most. (No, I didn't plan that rhyme, just comes naturally with time). Her only loss was to burn. But she agreed that kozilek's return was awesome for aggro and vs the thopter combo deck she played against she was able to easily stabilize the board and get him. She wants bonfire, so we'll likely test that as a 1 of perhaps. I asked her how she felt about where the deck was and she thinks the main thing it needs is better answers to burn as that was her one problem of the night. She didn't mention any issue with getting red sources. We'll continue testing.

[MechTactical]

another friend in blue, I'm feeling not alone anymore!:laugh:
about your points:

trinket mage: I think there is always something better than this card, but if you have free slots it's a good candidate.
glacial chasm: I think the same, I will test another tournament without it and let you know.
crop rotation: You are right, I will probably drop to 2. It depends also on how many needles/trickbind a list has.
tormond: I disagree. Relic makes you draw a card, can be play on turn 1 also, and it's still good against tarmo/DRS (what do you have against them that is versatile as it is?)
platinum: sometimes a S&T into platinum is better than titan, you automatically win some games and against StP you still gain 8 life (that can be really useful for this deck). I put 2 of them since I dropped glacial chasm, but in general I would not go under 1 copy.
kozilek: old is gold
ulamog: new is.....gold. XD
vesuvas: yeah, 2 is the perfect number for this card.
EE: like trinket mage.
needle: I think this card is a MUST, but looking at your list.....you have FOW in sideboard, don't you think is better to replace needle with trickbind to have more blue cards to pitch?

Yeah it seems not many of us survived the new expansion :smile:

I'm not having trouble with DRS / tarmo, SnT beats them. and if that doesn't work i have repeal, EE + trinket. When i ran relic i never boarded it in against DRS / tarmo. So i figured GY hate should be dedicated to reanimator, dredge, lands,... (dredge players sometimes forfeit after they see it t1 :laugh:) if you are on the draw you can activate it only after your opponents 2nd turn, which can be too late. If you have Tormod you can play your 1cmc + tormod on your turn 1 and activate it if need be. Same goes if you are on the play, as reanimator can drop a bomb on their t1 in this event relic is useless, since it cannot be activated, don't you think?

i'm not sure i'll be running FoW in the future, but as it stands now i have 16+ U cards after boarding them in, as they always go in with flusters, mainly against combo, burn and the needles usually go out. I found trickbind to be very clunky and it's just a pain to leave 2 mana open for it. not sure i want to go back to it.

[Philipp2293]

Glad to hear the GR deck worked out fine. I would take it out for a spin this WE, but the meta in that store is very combo heavy, which I assume GR is the softest of Post variants to, or am I wrong?

[Rock Lee]

How do you like Kozilek 2.0? I'm not really fond of the card as of yet. I rarely go for it.

I have won multiple rounds where I show & tell'd it in against storm on turn 3 and had warping wail/spatial contortion in hand and they couldn't win.

[maCHOOga]

All, I lost a match on SnapCasters stream last night playing 12 post against Sneak and Show. Kind of a let down, as I usually feel very favored in that matchup. I'll post a link once it gets posted to youtube.


I have won multiple rounds where I show & tell'd it in against storm on turn 3 and had warping wail/spatial contortion in hand and they couldn't win.

Rock, are you playing any 4 or 5 drops in your build? I feel like you have to align your CMC of spells to the haymakers of your opponents deck. If they don't line up, you have to board Kozilek out right? That's my mindset currently with him. I dream of the day of countering a terminus by discarding a primeval titan. (Although I've already won by then lol!)

[Mr. Froggy]

Rock, are you playing any 4 or 5 drops in your build? I feel like you have to align your CMC of spells to the haymakers of your opponents deck. If they don't line up, you have to board Kozilek out right? That's my mindset currently with him. I dream of the day of countering a terminus by discarding a primeval titan. (Although I've already won by then lol!)

That's exactly how I feel too when I cast an Eldrazi..

[Morden]

Yeah it seems not many of us survived the new expansion :smile:

I'm not having trouble with DRS / tarmo, SnT beats them. and if that doesn't work i have repeal, EE + trinket. When i ran relic i never boarded it in against DRS / tarmo. So i figured GY hate should be dedicated to reanimator, dredge, lands,... (dredge players sometimes forfeit after they see it t1 :laugh:) if you are on the draw you can activate it only after your opponents 2nd turn, which can be too late. If you have Tormod you can play your 1cmc + tormod on your turn 1 and activate it if need be. Same goes if you are on the play, as reanimator can drop a bomb on their t1 in this event relic is useless, since it cannot be activated, don't you think?

i'm not sure i'll be running FoW in the future, but as it stands now i have 16+ U cards after boarding them in, as they always go in with flusters, mainly against combo, burn and the needles usually go out. I found trickbind to be very clunky and it's just a pain to leave 2 mana open for it. not sure i want to go back to it.

you are right about tormond, but I prefer surgical extraction as a "free" graveyard hate. DRS/tarmo/knight of the reliquary can be handle easy only with one card, relic: S&T normally is countered, EE+trinket is slow and can be decayed if not used in the same turn (and you destroy only one type of CMC). I would play tormond if I didn't play surgical, but I think 1/2 relic can help handling the game.
I understand your idea about trickbind. I will try FOW maybe in the future.

[mykatdied]

Glad to hear the GR deck worked out fine. I would take it out for a spin this WE, but the meta in that store is very combo heavy, which I assume GR is the softest of Post variants to, or am I wrong?

Someone mentioned pyrostatic pillar for gr. Seems sweet

[Emrakul503]

What do people think about the Thought-Knot Seer from the GR list? Is it good enough to try in UG (the version I am building)?

[Mr. Froggy]

What do people think about the Thought-Knot Seer from the GR list? Is it good enough to try in UG (the version I am building)?

I want to try Thought-Knot Seer, but my list is crazy tight..

EDIT: Also, it looks like a deck to wreck the shit out of Aggro.. Damn...

[Captain Hammer]

Because the new Eldrazi (Thought-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher etc) are so powerful, I think it would be worthwhile taking this deck in a slightly different direction.

A manabase similar to the below is able to support both explosiveness and a long game...

4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cloudpost
2x Vesuva
3x Glimmerpost
3x City of Traitors
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Crystal Vein

Vesuva can always copy an Eldrazi Temple if a Cloudpost isn't in play, or can even copy an Ancient Tomb if you're really desperate for mana. Thus, effectively, every single land above with the exception of Glimmerpost (this is why I cut it to 3) is capable of tapping for two mana by itself. This effectively lets the deck cut chaff like Mind Stones and Grim Monoliths and go very threat dense.

With a manabase as above, I would play no more than 10 Non Eldrazi cards at most.

Here's the build I'm playing around with...

0cc - 26
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cloudpost
2x Vesuva
3x Glimmerpost
3x City of Traitors
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Crystal Vein

Xcc - 8
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Endless One

2cc - 2
2x Eldrazi Mimic

3cc - 3
3x Trinisphere

4cc - 4
4x Thought-Knot Seer

5cc - 7
4x Reality Smasher
3x Kozilek's Channeler

6cc - 6
4x Conduit of Ruin
2x Endbringer

8cc - 1
1x Ulamog's Crusher

9cc - 1
1x Void Winnower

10cc - 2
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Here's an example of a pretty typical opening hand that also serves to illustrate why I play 4x Conduit of Ruin

Turn 1 - Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple - Chalice at 1 or cast a Mimic or a 2/2 Endless One
Turn 2 - Eye of Ugin or Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple - Thought Knot Seer or Trinisphere
Turn 3 - City of Traitors - Conduit of Ruin to tutor up Kozilek/Ulamog
Turn 4 - Tap city for 2 mana, play Ancient Tomb or Crystal Vein and sac it for 2 more mana - cast Kozilek and draw a fistful of cards or cast Ulamog and blow up two of your opponents lands(even if it gets countered).


Let me know your input.

[cherson]

Looks interesting but wasteland and blood moon / magus seem to be an issue here especially because u can't use krosan grip etc.. Looking forward to your reports..

Gesendet von meinem ONE E1003 mit Tapatalk

[Captain Hammer]

Looks interesting but wasteland and blood moon / magus seem to be an issue here especially because u can't use krosan grip etc.. Looking forward to your reports..

Gesendet von meinem ONE E1003 mit Tapatalk

Wasteland is actually less of an issue here than with a traditional build. Traditional builds are much more delayed by a Cloudpost getting Wasted where as this manabase is designed to function perfectly well even if any one specfic land gets destroyed because all the other lands are capable of making 2 mana each.

Blood Moon/Magus certainly hurt the deck but many of the threats this version plays are still castable even through a blood moon. Conduit of Ruin makes it much much easier to play around Blood Moon/Magus of Moon.

[cherson]

Wasteland is actually less of an issue here than with a traditional build. Traditional builds are much more delayed by a Cloudpost getting Wasted where as this manabase is designed to function perfectly well even if any one specfic land gets destroyed because all the other lands are capable of making 2 mana each.

Blood Moon/Magus certainly hurt the deck but many of the threats this version plays are still castable even through a blood moon. Conduit of Ruin makes it much much easier to play around Blood Moon/Magus of Moon.
The normal build has MD needle, at least most of the time. This is a perfect card to get rid of wasteland. Maybe an option for your 3 open spots but plays against your chalice play.. I am really interested how your deck works out compared to the mono g, etc builds.

[Captain Hammer]

The normal build has MD needle, at least most of the time. This is a perfect card to get rid of wasteland. Maybe an option for your 3 open spots but plays against your chalice play.. I am really interested how your deck works out compared to the mono g, etc builds.

Chalice at 1 >>>> Pithing Needle. Chalice cripples so many decks that I would never cut it. So playing 1cc cards is not an option imo. Wasteland is not that big a threat here. Getting a land blown up isn't the end of the world when the deck is playing 27 land every one of which taps for 2 mana with the exception of Glimmerpost.

I made a decision regarding the 3 flex slots. Here is my current build...

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage

4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Conduit of Ruin

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

2 Endbringer
1 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

I absolutely love how this list is performing.

[Pdingo]

@captain Hammer
You should look at the eldrazi stompy threath.
It's a completly different deck;)

[Mr. Froggy]

@captain Hammer
You should look at the eldrazi stompy threath.
It's a completly different deck;)

I was gonna say the exact same thing lol

[maCHOOga]

All, as I mentioned before. Here's a link to the snapcasters stream . I'm on round 2, which starts at about 1:30 hrs in. Feel free to tune in to Snapcasters every Tuesday/Wednesday starting at 6-7pm EST.

https://youtu.be/xZrXpl7O7AQ

What would you have gotten with trinket mage, game 3? Hint: I got the wrong thing!

[mykatdied]

All, as I mentioned before. Here's a link to the snapcasters stream . I'm on round 2, which starts at about 1:30 hrs in. Feel free to tune in to Snapcasters every Tuesday/Wednesday starting at 6-7pm EST.

https://youtu.be/xZrXpl7O7AQ

What would you have gotten with trinket mage, game 3? Hint: I got the wrong thing!

I think map was the wrong option in general there. I couldn't really see your hand but I could see argument for needle first and foremost. Which likely would have been blown up since you ran the map out, you likely would have ran the needle out and your opponent put emrakul via through the breach. You lost 5 permanents and needle would have been the 6th. So that was irrelevant what you found. I may have gone for candelabra depending on the contents of your hand from there.

[Morden]

All, as I mentioned before. Here's a link to the snapcasters stream . I'm on round 2, which starts at about 1:30 hrs in. Feel free to tune in to Snapcasters every Tuesday/Wednesday starting at 6-7pm EST.

https://youtu.be/xZrXpl7O7AQ

What would you have gotten with trinket mage, game 3? Hint: I got the wrong thing!

I don't think triket mage would have made a difference against TTB+emrakul. Instead, on g1, I don't understand why you didn't sac expedition to get Karakas BEFORE he attacked with emrakul. He had very few red source, in this situation karakas can really save your life. I don't see your hand, so maybe you have a better plan for that map.

Keep on posting videos guys, they are very instructive!

[Mr. Froggy]

I tried the list with PFire, didn't like where that one's going. I'd like to find room for the Seer in my list though.. Hmmm...

EDIT:

Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Taiga
3 Vesuva
3 Wooded Foothills

Creatures
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Thought-Knot Seer

Spells
2 Ancient Stirrings
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Crop Rotation
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Trinisphere
3 Expedition Map

I moved the Ugins to the SB, and added an extra Kozilek's Return while cutting Kozilek himself (just not doing enough for me).

This let me add 3 Thought-Knot Seers. What do you guys think?

[drude1]

I tried the list with PFire, didn't like where that one's going. I'd like to find room for the Seer in my list though.. Hmmm...


I agree, I didn't like the PFire either. I ended up replacing them with a few copies of warping wail. In the testing I've done so far, Seer is actually really good. Here's what I like about it:
a. 4/4, for 4 mana, so kinda hard to deal with via the typical legacy removal cards besides StP (abrupt decay, bolts, etc don't work).
b. easy to get out by turn 3, so it has some play against a lot of combo decks. And in combination with warping wail, we actually have decent game against storm or other combo decks before sb
c. 4/4 is pretty strong against the rest of the field for creatures as well, so it acts as a pretty good wall.
d. searchable and costs 2 mana with Eye of Ugin out....that's just crazy.
e. searchable with Ancient Stirrings. Speaking of which, Ancient Stirrings is so incredibly strong in this deck right now. It gets lands, most of your creatures, key artifacts/accelerators and removal (Kozilek's Return or all Is Dust). I've been going back and forth between a Green Sun build and Ancient Stirrings build and Ancient Stirrings just seems so much better right now.

Anyway, this is the main deck the I'm going to be testing for a while...

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
3 [UG] Forest
2 [B] Taiga
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
3 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wail
2 [OGW] Kozilek's Return
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings

I miss a third Candelabra more than anything and more Kozilek's Return or Bonfires will see a couple slots in the SB. I also moved Tabernacle to the board as it just isn't as strong right now, but still good enough to be in the 75 (not to mention I bought one and feels stupid if I don't play with it). Always open to suggestions. The one tough thing with this kind of build is that a lot of the cards become really bad against Blood Moon/Back to Basics sorts of cards. So will definitely be leaning on K.Grip in the board. I'm primarily a Painter player though so maybe I'm just hyper-aware of that strategy. So, always open to suggestions as well.

EDIT:

Changing a top to a 3rd Candelabra. I'm finding that I now have too much to do with my mana that I'm not even using the tops. Why not play the most explosive cards that you can right?

[mykatdied]

If you are playing GR and running warping wail it would seem like grove is a great card to use since it acts as a tri land to cast things with colorless as a mana symbol. I'm wondering if that is why that player opted for the groves and punishing fires. It seems poor judgement to play grove and not take advantage of punishing fire which can really hose a lot of aggro strategies.

[drude1]

I agree. Grove is good due to being essentially a 3 color land for the deck. I have two issues with the build though. First, if you play groves then you need to cut fetches and basics, which REALLY hurts against blood moon or recurrent wastelands. Second, I honestly just don't love PFire. It just doesn't have the same general utility that warping wail has and I tend to play this deck as more of a combo deck. I want to be playing a fatty by turn four and not spending turns picking away 2 drops that my opponent has played.


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[Pdingo]

So my Friends, the next 2 Weekends i gonna play 12 Post on Mkm Milano and SCG Milano italy;)
Wish me luck and i hope that we can see my Foil Mono G Post on the Cam:PP

[Emrakul503]

Would like to see reports on both!

[Morden]

So my Friends, the next 2 Weekends i gonna play 12 Post on Mkm Milano and SCG Milano italy;)
Wish me luck and i hope that we can see my Foil Mono G Post on the Cam:PP

see you there, hope to see you not on the cam but on the table!! :D

[Mr. Froggy]

vs UG Post I went:

Cast Nulamog exile Karn and Cloudpost
Karakas Nulamog recast
Exile Candelabra and Cloudpost
All in the same turn
Completely disgusting

EDIT: Thought-Knot Seer is quite something, let me exile his Emrakul and a Ugin

[anakyn]

Hi guys,

in your opinion, is it so terrible to cut Brainstorm in UG builds using Ancient Stirrings?
Between 4x Stirrings and 4 Top I guess the deck has enough filtering to find the cards we need.

I have to choose if I prefer Brainstorm or Repeal, and even if I know it sounds odd, right now I'm more on the Repeal side.

Is it completely insane?

[Rock Lee]

Hi guys,

in your opinion, is it so terrible to cut Brainstorm in UG builds using Ancient Stirrings?
Between 4x Stirrings and 4 Top I guess the deck has enough filtering to find the cards we need.

I have to choose if I prefer Brainstorm or Repeal, and even if I know it sounds odd, right now I'm more on the Repeal side.

Is it completely insane?

If you looked only one page back you would see This post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi&p=929251&viewfull=1#post929251) where I post a list with your exact situation. I went 3-0 this event, not dropping a single game.

Ancient stirrings can't find brainstorm, but ancient stirrings after brainstorming is better than fetching.

[anakyn]

If you looked only one page back you would see This post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi&p=929251&viewfull=1#post929251) where I post a list with your exact situation. I went 3-0 this event, not dropping a single game.

Ancient stirrings can't find brainstorm, but ancient stirrings after brainstorming is better than fetching.

I already read that post (and at least the last 10 pages of this thread), and that list of yours was the very reason why I asked if dropping brainstorm was viable.

[maCHOOga]

I don't think triket mage would have made a difference against TTB+emrakul. Instead, on g1, I don't understand why you didn't sac expedition to get Karakas BEFORE he attacked with emrakul. He had very few red source, in this situation karakas can really save your life. I don't see your hand, so maybe you have a better plan for that map.

Keep on posting videos guys, they are very instructive!

I went back to rewatch the match and I know what point your talking about. I don't remember the entire contents of my hand, but it was probably a lot of air. Why I didn't crack the map, was simply I forgot too. There was no top/brainstorm so I was drawing blind. It was 100% correct to crack map for Karakas. This was the first time I've picked up old faithful in a couple months, so I'm rusty. I was also coming off of a nail-biting game against lands where Ulamog exile their entire library on Turn 4 in turns.


I think map was the wrong option in general there. I couldn't really see your hand but I could see argument for needle first and foremost. Which likely would have been blown up since you ran the map out, you likely would have ran the needle out and your opponent put emrakul via through the breach. You lost 5 permanents and needle would have been the 6th. So that was irrelevant what you found. I may have gone for candelabra depending on the contents of your hand from there.

My memory is starting to go in my old age, but here is what I remember. My hand in the 3rd game contained Primetime, Primetime, Crop Rotation, plus other lands (Of the Non-Cavern/Karakas/UorG Variety). I was surprised that trinket mage and the target resolved. I should have tapped Tropical Island + cloudpost to float a colorless. If it would have all resolved, I would be left with 2 colorless mana and candebra in play. I could untap the tropical and cloudpost. That would allow me to crop rotation for Cavern at EOT or Karakas in response to a through the breach. With the cloudpost untapped, I could even pay for spellpiece. I was cold to FoW though. Pithing needle was another option, however, doesn't stop through the breach.

The take away form this, is there is added benefit to play with my hand on the table so the camera can see, but not my opponent. It will definitely help for replays. :-)

[Hencules]

Finally found a build I am happy with.

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [OGW] Wastes

Went 3-0 with weekly magic. matchups were Lands, Jund, Moggcatcher. all 2-0'd.

Hey rock, that's an awesome list. I use a very similar one, but with Emrakul and two platinum Emperion instead of the two other eldrazi. That really helps with show and tell. What was your consideration?

[Rock Lee]

Hey rock, that's an awesome list. I use a very similar one, but with Emrakul and two platinum Emperion instead of the two other eldrazi. That really helps with show and tell. What was your consideration?

I could see swapping ulamog and kozilek for x2 platinum emperion if you are anticipating burn over other problems. I might consider it myself with me testing more of the though-knot seer, since most decks only have 1-2 ways of dealing with platinum emperion, so extra draws don't matter if you clear the right card.

[Hencules]

I could see swapping ulamog and kozilek for x2 platinum emperion if you are anticipating burn over other problems. I might consider it myself with me testing more of the though-knot seer, since most decks only have 1-2 ways of dealing with platinum emperion, so extra draws don't matter if you clear the right card.

That's all true. I did notice show and tell into Emperion is a clear cut answer to elves, storm, burn, ur delver, all in cases where getting a non triggered eldrazi would have done nothing. It feels like show and tell builds need Emperion for immediate impact. Combining it with thought knot seer is really interesting though.

Don't you miss Needle?

[deadlock]

I could see swapping ulamog and kozilek for x2 platinum emperion if you are anticipating burn over other problems. I might consider it myself with me testing more of the though-knot seer, since most decks only have 1-2 ways of dealing with platinum emperion, so extra draws don't matter if you clear the right card.

Ulamogs role is pretty similar to Ugin, so I could see to swap Ulamog for Platinum, which also increases the power of Show and Tell and might make the 4th copy viable in your build. Anyway strong innovation to run AS in an Ug build, as it acts as a stronger Ponder or should be compared to it at least. Also if some of you play Trinket Mage, you should consider to run AS instead. It is not an direct tutor, but digs pretty deep and can catch more things.

[Captain Hammer]

I disagree that the below list doesn't count as Turbo Eldrazi. It uses cloud post mana and cost reducers to turbo out massive Eldrazi.

As the OP stated: "The core:
4 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

Because this core constitutes a good chunk of your manabase it leaves the remainder of the deck up for considerable variation."

The below list plays the same core cards to achieve the same end goal. I think this is the optimal direction the deck should take given the fantastic new Eldrazi that were printed in Oath. When ridiculously powerful cards like Seer and Smasher get printed, even the best decks should evolve to take advantage of new powerful cards.

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
2 Vesuva

4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Conduit of Ruin

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

2 Endbringer
1 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

I am everybit as confident in my recommendation of Endless One as I was when I recommended Conduit of Ruin. It's done an amazing job smoothing out the curve and gives the deck both a way to stabilize early against fast aggro and yet another game winning bomb against control in the late game.

I've been much happier with Kozilek's Channeler than I was with any of the artifact mana generators I've tried. It's cost is reduced by Eye of Ugin, Eldrazi Temple and Conduit of Ruin and it comes with a solid 4/4 body and reusability. It lets you sac Crystal Vein or cast City of Traitors early without having to constrain yourself in terms of mana and enables casting the big Eldrazi that you tutor up with Conduit. It lets you cast bigger Endless One and fuels massive Mimic attacks. It also allowed me to go back down to 26 land.

[drude1]

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

[hymnyou]

I disagree that the below list doesn't count as Turbo Eldrazi. It uses cloud post mana and cost reducers to turbo out massive Eldrazi.


Just a continuation of this thread being completely unorganized- nearly unable to continue a train of thought. I have never heard of the deck being called anything but eldrazi stompy. Usually any deck with mana accelerants with chalices and 3ball is considered to fit into the stompy category. This is where you want to be: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30299-DECK-Eldrazi-Stompy/page8

[TheBoozeCube]

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

That's a very interesting point, especially since most of Burn's curve is at 1cmc. I'm going to test one in my board now.


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[Pdingo]

Info for mkm series milano;)

Legacy Trial on friday:

Of course im.on the finals but lose to elves (Julian Knab)
T3 Kill of him;) then he get beaten by ulamog and ugin and then he t2 killed me.

But very nice start for the weekend..

Saturday legacy:

Not much to say...my badest legacy tournament ever..

1:2 Goblins ( Mull to 6 on the draw, lackey gets me, g2 win and g 3 Mull to 5..into double wasteland..)

0:2 Aggro Loam Hard to beat..

So 0:2 Drop and play the Big modern Trial;)

I played Tron and won the whole Trial and get 2 byes for tomorrow:)

12 Post lists follows;)

Still a ver y nice Weekend:)

Greets

[Mr. Froggy]

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

I wholeheartedly agree, 12Post isn't Eldrazi Stompy.

[Morden]

Hi guys, here I am, back from MKM series in Milan. FIRST, a little note: it's about 30 hours that I don't sleep, I was in Florida yesterday, I went from the airport to the tournament directly at 6am. :cry: sorry for the bad report and grammar mistakes.

here is the list that I had:

2 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
2 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
2 Expedition Map
1 Forest
2 Warping Wail
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
3 Terminus
1 Scroll Rack
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Flooded Strand
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog


I did some important changes three days ago, and I was very curious to test them.

1) Miracle, 2-0. g1: impressive, 2 terminus HARDCASTED clean the battlefield from clique/mentor. Easy ramp g2: I don't remember exactly, in my notes I see only "UGIN".

2) D&T, 2-1. g1: 2 terminus casted by miracle trigger, this gave me time to ramp with no pressure. g2: he had everything, I had few things g3: I saw 2 needle, one on vial and the other on port, and the game is easy.

3) D&T 1-2 g1: he played vial, wasteland and an horde of creatures, I cannot resist. g2: ramp with emrakul and ugin :laugh: g3: same as g1

4) sneak attack 0-2 g1: on 3rd turn he combo'd off, sneack->grisel->emra, nothing I can do g2: very loooong game, I play a needle on sneack and another on grisel, he plays TWO blood moon, I destroy one with krosan, I try with a BEB on the other one but it's countered, I have one titan into play, he is at 8 hp, he plays its 10th land and cast omniscience -_-

5) merfolk 1-2 g1: He plays a lot of creature, but I think I can handle the situation, I'm ready to play a titan covered by a cavern, when he plays a wasteland on one cloudpost. Totally unexpected :( . g2: he screwed with mana g3: he is killing me with 2 mutavault and a lord. I play a needle, forced. Good, he has 2 cards in hand, I play crop rotation to be ready to cast something on the next round (don't remember if ugin or ulamog). His turn he wastes my cloudpost again -_-. Maybe here I misplayed, but I was died for sure if I did nothing on the next round.....I could play crop in EOT, but I was afraid that he drew a counter.

6) bug 2-0 he made some errors and I had no pressure in general, both games.

7) bug 1-2 g1: needle naming wasteland, show and tell into nothing just to see if he has a counter, path is clear, ugin. g2: don't remember g3: mulligan to 5, I play sensei, he plays needle on it. My next draw will be emrakul, ulamog, terminus, terminus, with 2 useless land in game.

In general, despite the 3-4, I'm very happy of this build. I never used Scroll Rack, but I thought it could be useful to put a terminus back on the library. I would play Jace, that is much much better, but the 2 blue mana used to cast it are bad. I will try with Jace next time and see.
Warping Wail was very useful against come clique and DTS.....but in some situation if I had StP it was better (against tarmo for example). I will keep warping probably, to be protected also against sorcery (it countered an entreat the angel on first game).
Ulamog mainboard is a must, I'm sorry for old Kozilek but there is no room for it at the moment.

I'm going to bed now, I need to sleeeep!!

[maCHOOga]

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

It's definitely got some legs against burn!
-Primeval Titan counters fireblast!
-The million one drops counter all the cheap burn spells.
-I also feel like we want some 2 drops to counter price of progress, since that's the "Achilles heel" of the 12post.

[Morden]

I don't understand why you guys prefer newKozi over emperion (at least, against burn and storm). G1 against these decks is 100% win if you drop emperion, they have NO responses to it. G2 also they have only sideboard cards to defeat it, they have to find them or nothing.
Also, newKozi cannot do much against price, cabal ritual, demonic pact, past in flames, ad nauseam, at least in a classical 12post build.

[MechTactical]

Finally found a build I am happy with.

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [OGW] Wastes

Went 3-0 with weekly magic. matchups were Lands, Jund, Moggcatcher. all 2-0'd.

Am i counting wrong or are you running 61 MB cards???

[Darkenslight]

I don't understand why you guys prefer newKozi over emperion (at least, against burn and storm). G1 against these decks is 100% win if you drop emperion, they have NO responses to it. G2 also they have only sideboard cards to defeat it, they have to find them or nothing.
Also, newKozi cannot do much against price, cabal ritual, demonic pact, past in flames, ad nauseam, at least in a classical 12post build.

It appears that they're interchangeable, dependent upon the metagame you're in; NuKoz is much better in midrange matches, Emperion is much better in an aggressive metagame. Both have their uses and their flaws.

[Rock Lee]

Am i counting wrong or are you running 61 MB cards???

Indeed on 61. Always working on trimming.

[Postman]

@Cptn. Hammer, I think their point though is that you might not find as many people in this thread as interested in the deck as you would in the thread that is more dedicated to this type of build. I definitely think it's viable and I've actually seen people play versions of the deck online a ton already, so there is definitely interest.

also, for people who don't like the new Kozilek over the old one, I have come across a KEY advantage that the new Kozilek has, and that is the burn match-up. How many people have played this match-up and survived long enough to hit Glacial Chasm and get some fatties out, but the second you let glacial chasm go they burn your face for lethal? With new Kozilek you can let the glacial chasm go and just counter all the burn they try to throw at your face in response (I recently played this game, which prompted me to comment on it). I'm playing the G/R list and am still playing new Kozilek. It's effect is quite strong in many MUs.

Interesting point, got my attention! Lost my last two matches against Burn/RDW, 1:2 against Burn, 0:2 against RDW. :cry: As you said, Chasm doesn't help my, since PoP is an instant. Normally I would go back to Emperion (mayber 1 main, 1 SB), but most red players bring in some copies of Smash to S., so Emperion isn't really safe. Here comes new Kozilek: should be able to prevent some damage, but cmc2 can be difficult. But there are also Flusterstorms to handle PoPs. And Kozilek can end the game very fast...like the idea and will give it a try, thanks!

[MechTactical]

Indeed on 61. Always working on trimming.

So I've been testing you're build online and it does run well, but i'm having trouble with side-boarding. could you give some insight into how exactly are you boarding with this puppy? are you boarding out AS?
Sometimes I'm also puzzled as to which digging option to use first, when i have a hand consisting of brainstorm, AS, top... i had a few misplays with it. So you would normally brainstorm -> AS -> then play top? i mean i was used to dropping top ASAP, but now i'm not sure?

Had an interesting match against a sort of Lands deck yesterday, when i crop bog-ed him and could pay for later surgical extractions with bojuka, that was sweet.

[Rock Lee]

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

[Rock Lee]

So I've been testing you're build online and it does run well, but i'm having trouble with side-boarding. could you give some insight into how exactly are you boarding with this puppy? are you boarding out AS?
Sometimes I'm also puzzled as to which digging option to use first, when i have a hand consisting of brainstorm, AS, top... i had a few misplays with it. So you would normally brainstorm -> AS -> then play top? i mean i was used to dropping top ASAP, but now i'm not sure?

Had an interesting match against a sort of Lands deck yesterday, when i crop bog-ed him and could pay for later surgical extractions with bojuka, that was sweet.

Cards I find I side out often are as follows: Emperion (vs easy removal), Warping Wail (if they don't have sorceries of note, or a snail won't help me), Crop Rotation (anything with CB I take this out), Show and Tell (vs Show and Tell decks, but I am reconsidering with TKS), Candelabra (decks with heavy land and/or hand disruption), Eldrazi Package (mostly combo decks too fast for top end to matter), Titans (vs reanimator, or decks where lifegain/utility lands won't win me the game), Utility lands (depends, but I often side out 1 land every non-wasteland match).

Hope this provides some vague help and lets you mix and match appropriately.

[MechTactical]

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

ahaha you finally dropped glacial! omg don't make me play thought-knot seer, some of the worst art i've seen in my life...

EDIT: you went down to 24 lands? bojuka in the side?? hm... bojuka is thy only defense against many decks out there, are ya sure you want to drop it??

[drude1]

Thought-knot seer has been great for me so far. I am actually playing 3 copies main. He pull the best card out of your opponent's hand or clears the way of counterspells for your haymaker. He also serves as a very good blocker against most other creatures in the format. I've been playing both him and warring wail main, and I honestly think that TKS has more utility. These also give me two drops and four drops for new Kozilek!


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[Morden]

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

very beautiful list, I'd play the same if I didn't have white splash. Maybe with another 2/ 3 cmc card

[Morden]

Normally I would go back to Emperion (mayber 1 main, 1 SB), but most red players bring in some copies of Smash to S., so Emperion isn't really safe. Here comes new Kozilek: should be able to prevent some damage, but cmc2 can be difficult. But there are also Flusterstorms to handle PoPs.
you are right, that's why I always side in also 2 beb. I know, BEB is a card useful only against few matchups, but these ones are the worst: burn and sneack&show (only a needle can save us from sure death, and post side bloodmoon is present).
BEB helps a lot also against every bloodmoon deck, we have krosan of course, but against these decks I wanna be SURE to draw something against bloodmoon.
Consider also this: do you prefer to drop an emperion, and wait that the opponent luckly draws a smash, or do you prefer to drop nuKozi, and HOPE to have a cmc2 cost to counter a PoP (for sure in 4x)? Also if chances are the same (let's say you have 4 cards with cmc2 and he has 4 smash or similiar), when you drop an emperion he can do NOTHING until he draws something to destroy it; with Kozi on the field, he can still attack, try some shots, of course he is "limited" but can react. Smash on emperion? beb/fluster and gg.

[drude1]

you are right, that's why I always side in also 2 beb. I know, BEB is a card useful only against few matchups, but these ones are the worst: burn and sneack&show (only a needle can save us from sure death, and post side bloodmoon is present).
BEB helps a lot also against every bloodmoon deck, we have krosan of course, but against these decks I wanna be SURE to draw something against bloodmoon.
Consider also this: do you prefer to drop an emperion, and wait that the opponent luckly draws a smash, or do you prefer to drop nuKozi, and HOPE to have a cmc2 cost to counter a PoP (for sure in 4x)? Also if chances are the same (let's say you have 4 cards with cmc2 and he has 4 smash or similiar), when you drop an emperion he can do NOTHING until he draws something to destroy it; with Kozi on the field, he can still attack, try some shots, of course he is "limited" but can react. Smash on emperion? beb/fluster and gg.

First, I totally agree with everything above. And if I wanted to bring one of these two cards in from the SB just for the burn match-up, I would consider the emperion. Having said that, I do think that Kozilek has more general relevance as a main board card as it is also very good against combo (STORM) and can protect itself from things like swords to plowshares. It can also be bounced and replayed with Karakas to get more cards. You can also still use fetches, keep your Glacial Chasm for another turn or two and gain life off of Glimmerpost with Kozilek. I would also remind you that you that the burn player does not need smash to get rid of Emperion. From personal experience, I can tell you that they can just point 3 burn spells at the Empirion and save the haymaker (eg. Price of Progress) for your face. And of course, I am not playing blue. So BeB/flusterstorm are not options for some of us.

Still wouldn't go nearly as far as saying that Emperion is a bad choice though.

[cherson]

Burn is an issue that is the reason why I keep my 4 Leylines in the sb. Obviously I don't play the blue list but mono g plus savannah.

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[Postman]

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

Looks interesting, will give it a try today :smile: Only thing what's strange to me (without testing) is the Wastes land instead of Bojuka Bog. Usually, there should be about 10 sources able to produce Waste mana (8 posts, 2 caverns). Only reason I can think of is that Wastes counts as a basic and produces Waste mana even under Blood Moon...And Bojuka Bog is soooo great in many MUs, I really don't want to miss it (shines against Reanimator, RUG, Lands, Stom, etc...)Can you give a short insight, please?

[Postman]

Burn is an issue that is the reason why I keep my 4 Leylines in the sb. Obviously I don't play the blue list but mono g plus savannah.

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Thought of Leyline as well, but it doesn't help against PoP?

[Mr. Froggy]

Thought of Leyline as well, but it doesn't help against PoP?

I might be lucky but I haven't had that much trouble vs Burn.

They get me down to roughly 5-7 life and then I just explode with Primeval Titan and gain a billion life with Glimmerpost/Mina and Denn uber combo.

[Postman]

I might be lucky but I haven't had that much trouble vs Burn.

They get me down to roughly 5-7 life and then I just explode with Primeval Titan and gain a billion life with Glimmerpost/Mina and Denn uber combo.

The last games against Burn/RDW went like T1 Swift Spear, T2 Goblin Guide plus Lava Spike, T3 Bolt +PoP, game 2 Sulfuric Vortex stops life gain, or Skullcrack...

[cherson]

Thought of Leyline as well, but it doesn't help against PoP?
Thats right but ignoring all other 3dmg spells is genius and might give u enough time to set up you own win con

[maCHOOga]

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

Rock, how are you beating lands without Repeal for Marit Leige and/or Pithing needle for Wasteland? I understand that you can Karakas the 1st Marit, but what about the 2nd one? Likewise, how are they not wastelanding you to oblivion?
Is your plan to just show and tell titan ASAP?

[Mr. Froggy]

The last games against Burn/RDW went like T1 Swift Spear, T2 Goblin Guide plus Lava Spike, T3 Bolt +PoP, game 2 Sulfuric Vortex stops life gain, or Skullcrack...

I haven't seen Swift Spear on MTGO in quite some time. I usually always see T1 GG, T2 Bolt+Chain, T3 Spike+Bolt+RBolt

EDIT: Of course God hands happen, there's not much anyone CAN do

[Rock Lee]

Rock, how are you beating lands without Repeal for Marit Leige and/or Pithing needle for Wasteland? I understand that you can Karakas the 1st Marit, but what about the 2nd one? Likewise, how are they not wastelanding you to oblivion?
Is your plan to just show and tell titan ASAP?

Outside of what you mentioned, warping wail counters loam and gamble, and I sideboard 4 surgicals. Thought knot seer also a beast in this matchup.

[Postman]

Went 3-0 without dropping a game this week at local magic using this list:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [P2] Island (1)
1 [OGW] Wastes

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm

Matchups were Miracles, RUG, Lands.

Trimmed to 60 cards. TKS was great, and I am actively trading for another, I think 2 would make a good fit, could possibly run 3.

Well, did some testing against RUG... let's say it this way: WOHOOO!:laugh:
Have been skeptical before the matches because of the missing Repeals, Needle/Revoker and Bojuka Bog, but the deck ran fantastic. Lost lands due to Wasteland/Stifle, but it didn't matter. Ugin / Emperion won the games:cool: Didn't see Kozilek, but I guess he will shine at the Burn/Storm MUs in the future. Not sure about Ulamog 2.0...the card is soooo insane, maybe I will cut 1 Emperion for him. Thoughts?

[Morden]

Well, did some testing against RUG... let's say it this way: WOHOOO!:laugh:
Have been skeptical before the matches because of the missing Repeals, Needle/Revoker and Bojuka Bog, but the deck ran fantastic. Lost lands due to Wasteland/Stifle, but it didn't matter. Ugin / Emperion won the games:cool: Didn't see Kozilek, but I guess he will shine at the Burn/Storm MUs in the future. Not sure about Ulamog 2.0...the card is soooo insane, maybe I will cut 1 Emperion for him. Thoughts?

I'd cut an Ugin rather than an emperion. You lose one removal effect for another one, uncounterable and tutorable.

[drude1]

Well, did some testing against RUG... let's say it this way: WOHOOO!:laugh:
Have been skeptical before the matches because of the missing Repeals, Needle/Revoker and Bojuka Bog, but the deck ran fantastic. Lost lands due to Wasteland/Stifle, but it didn't matter. Ugin / Emperion won the games:cool: Didn't see Kozilek, but I guess he will shine at the Burn/Storm MUs in the future. Not sure about Ulamog 2.0...the card is soooo insane, maybe I will cut 1 Emperion for him. Thoughts?

I don't play blue, but had the same general thoughts on the list. this deck has very few outs to an ensnaring bridge (including zero outs in the main). Nulamog answers lots of problems for this deck. As said above, Emperion is searchable, so why play more than one?


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[Emrakul503]

I picked up the GR version in preparation for Leagues starting next week, and I went 3-9 in games last night. I play the UG version in paper, but did not want to drop the $250 on Show and Tells and Mistys online quite yet. Maybe I am just super terrible, but Drude1, I would love to see your SB guide, as I was just annihilated by Aggro Eldrazi, Shardless and Grixis Delver. I am playing 3 Kozilek's Return in the side now.

[mykatdied]

I don't play blue, but had the same general thoughts on the list. this deck has very few outs to an ensnaring bridge (including zero outs in the main). Nulamog answers lots of problems for this deck. As said above, Emperion is searchable, so why play more than one?


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An ensnaring bridge main board can still be beaten with Ugin as his +2 is still a bolt to the face. His ultimate definitely puts the game far in your favor as well.

[Brendelton]

Aggro Eldrazi's only bad match up seems to be lands. I have not lost playing lands against aggro eldrazi. I enjoy playing the mono G version of Turbo Eldrazi and in no way can I beat the aggro Eldrazi. I have lost every match (I also am not good) 1-10. The one match I won, I was able to resolve a platinum emperion to which they have no answers. I do not have as much problems with other decks. I have taken down a few tournaments with my mono G list and have a blast playing the deck, I just can't win against aggro Eldrazi. I was wondering if their would be any good sideboard options against this deck as it seems to be picking up in popularity? Candlesticks 4 Life.

[TheBoozeCube]

Aggro Eldrazi's only bad match up seems to be lands. I have not lost playing lands against aggro eldrazi. I enjoy playing the mono G version of Turbo Eldrazi and in no way can I beat the aggro Eldrazi. I have lost every match (I also am not good) 1-10. The one match I won, I was able to resolve a platinum emperion to which they have no answers. I do not have as much problems with other decks. I have taken down a few tournaments with my mono G list and have a blast playing the deck, I just can't win against aggro Eldrazi. I was wondering if their would be any good sideboard options against this deck as it seems to be picking up in popularity? Candlesticks 4 Life.

I've only played against it a few times so far (Colorless Green build for me, as always). It doesn't seem to be a good matchup by any means (although I also had awful mulls and a small sample size, so my data may be skewed). Maze did a reasonable amount of work for me, although I played once vs a port of the UR version that went much too wide for it to save me. Warping Wail bought me some time by making chump blockers, but still wasn't ideal.

The problem with this matchup, as I see it so far, is that they're basically a more aggressive MUD that is largely immune to Grip. They play Chalice which slows us down considerably and also blank Ugin and All Is Dust, which is the traditional way to keep the board under control. O-Stone postboard helps, and I could see adding a second one if this deck becomes more popular.

The good news is that they run out of steam quickly if you can survive the initial onslaught, and their "little" Eldrazi can't do much against an Eldrazi titan. The builds that run locus lands also power our top end, although I expect these decks to eventually move away from using a Post manabase because it's far too slow and inconsistent without a land-tutoring package or Candles.


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[drude1]

I picked up the GR version in preparation for Leagues starting next week, and I went 3-9 in games last night. I play the UG version in paper, but did not want to drop the $250 on Show and Tells and Mistys online quite yet. Maybe I am just super terrible, but Drude1, I would love to see your SB guide, as I was just annihilated by Aggro Eldrazi, Shardless and Grixis Delver. I am playing 3 Kozilek's Return in the side now.

Here is the list that I'm currently playing:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
3 [UG] Forest
2 [B] Taiga
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
3 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wail
2 [OGW] Kozilek's Return
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings

// Sideboard
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Cursed Totem
SB: 1 Choke

I do feel like I want to get one copy of Platinum Emperion in the 75 somewhere but not sure where. Would probably cut a Red Blast.
Interestingly, I have played against Aggro Eldrazi 4-5 times now and haven't lost a match. I have been possibly been lucky because I have seen the deck just explode by turn 2 and wreck me. But most of the time I can stabilize with thought-knot seer and buy enough time to land a Primeval Titan. Then it's just over. I was having some trouble with shardless as well so started running a choke and brought trinispheres in. When I was on G/W the match-up was much better with 4 leyline. And if you really wanted better game against those decks specifically you could run G/W with an increase in sensei's top and terminus main along with leyline in the board. I actually go back and forth myself still. Obviously terminus doesn't play well with thought-knot seer, which is why I switched to red. I would never not play thought-knot seer in the deck at this point.

[Emrakul503]

Thank you for posting a list! I played UG at my local SNM tonight and had an impressive 1-3 finish, beating tribal Gorillas, losing to fish (incredibly close game), Grixis Delver and Stiflenaught. I played Rock Lees most recent list, but only have 1 Candel, so pithing needle instead, and 2 in thensode. Lost to some very bad Pithing Needle names (always Wasteland in the dark). Had I named Wasteland, I would have won at least 2 more games, if not 2 more matches. Platnium Emperion was a champ though, and I will likely find a way to make sure he makes it into all of my lists going forward!

[maCHOOga]

Thank you for posting a list! I played UG at my local SNM tonight and had an impressive 1-3 finish, beating tribal Gorillas...

Tribal Gorillas? Is that a budget deck or something or was someone planning to beatdown with Kird Apes, Ukatabi Orangutangs and Simian Spirit Guides?

[Ricardio]

Tribal Gorillas? Is that a budget deck or something or was someone planning to beatdown with Kird Apes, Ukatabi Orangutangs and Simian Spirit Guides?

Portland, Oregon. Hipster hub. Apes are so meta. Throwing bananas before it was cool. Hot banana throw!

[Emrakul503]

Portland, Oregon. Hipster hub. Apes are so meta. Throwing bananas before it was cool. Hot banana throw!

Precisely this! It was a player's first attempt at Legacy, so it was more of a "for funsies" deck than anything.

[snorlaxcom]

Tribal Gorillas? Is that a budget deck or something or was someone planning to beatdown with Kird Apes, Ukatabi Orangutangs and Simian Spirit Guides?

Vials, brass herald, hidden gibbons, mutavaults, and cavern of souls and you got a deck. Damn, bout to go write a primer. brb

[Rock Lee]

Went undefeated again this week, with a slight variation on the U/G build I have been succeeding with:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [OGW] Wastes
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [CHK] Island (3)
1 [OGW] Sea Gate Wreckage

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 3 [MMA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Karn Liberated


Karn was hilariously clunky, and I think I will drop it for either needles or surgical extractions. Or drop relic for surgicals.

Matchups were Mono Blue Control (2-0), Tinfins (2-0), Storm (2-1).

[deadlock]

Two quick notes:
- How do you adress the new Eldrazi Stompy deck? Playing against them, makes me lean towards Ugw with Terminus again. This and Glacial Chasm besides the obvious SnT->Titan / Emperion seem to be our best tools against them.
- Thought-Knot Seer is maindeck material in my opinion. The card is insane, because it is relevant against both fair decks and combo. Its just so beefy and can setup finishers pretty well or act as an finisher in combo matchups itself. I love to cast it for 2 with Eye of Ugin in play and it gives us another critical mana breakpoint of 9 besides 15 and 20 to tutor and cast something in the same turn.
- I am currently wondering, how good are basic lands in this deck outside of Blood Moon scenarios, where they are obviously necessary to resolve an answer. In the past I always felt that mono green lists don't gain anything with their increased basic count (disregarding single blowout scenarios - I am talking about in general). Ug lists are on the fence as they can afford to run a 1/1 basic split in the main, but the interesting variation are the Ugw builds in my opinion. It is a challenge to build a good Ugw manabase as it is basically 4 color deck now with the new cards that doesn't sacrifice utility while preserving mana stability. If there are still any Ugw players here, what do you think?

Sample Ugw manabase:
4 Cloudpost
1 Karakas
4 Glimmerpost
4 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Vesuva
3 Flooded Strand
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm

SB: 1 Island
or 1 Island and 1 Forest depending on Magus / Blood Moon hate.
Also note that assume that the build includes either Ancient Stirrings or Ponder on top of BS an SDT to find more land if needed.

[drude1]

@deadlock: I would definitely play at least one basic in the list, probably an island so that you can cast your cantrips and show and tell (and repeal if you are playing that). Otherwise you have ZERO outs to blood moon game one. Otherwise it seems fine I guess.

Regarding the turbo eldrazi (and MUD) match-ups, what about an ensnaring bridge main? It obviously shuts off most of our win cons but we can easily deal with it when we are ready. It just seems like it would buy us a lot of time against those MUs, not to mention elves, Merfolk, slivers, etc.

[maCHOOga]

Went undefeated again this week, with a slight variation on the U/G build I have been succeeding with:

[cards]// Lands

1 [OGW] Wastes



Rock, can you explain the inclusion of the 1 Wastes? Is it so you can cast warping wail / thought knot seer while there is a blood moon in play? The only ways to retrieve it is to crop rotation or expedition map for it, right? I was just curious to see if there was something I may be overlooking.

[Rock Lee]

Rock, can you explain the inclusion of the 1 Wastes? Is it so you can cast warping wail / thought knot seer while there is a blood moon in play? The only ways to retrieve it is to crop rotation or expedition map for it, right? I was just curious to see if there was something I may be overlooking.

That is is. Also provides stable lands against tempo, which this deck is light-ish against. I found that with every colorless source being waste-able, having vulnerable mana for your pivotal spells against them is foolish. I also have been tinkering with spatial contortion as a sb/md card, which would fall in line with this.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

I took R/G 12 post to two weeklies in a row, going 3-1 each time. The first tournament I faced Miracles(2-1), Miracles(2-0), Storm(1-2), Jund(2-0). The second I faced Rug Delver(1-2), 2nd round bye, Junk Nic Fit (2-0), Elves (2-0).

Before playing this version I felt I was losing too much to fair creature decks, the decks you're supposedly favored in. With kozilek's return and bonfire I finally have the early interaction I need to fight their creatures. This buys me enough time to assemble my pieces and win. Repeal and moment's peace are really weak in my opinion, having played them in the U/G version. There's too many deathrite shamans for moment's peace to be good, and repeal doesn't buy you enough time considering U/G is even slower with less ramp. Warping wail is a high variance card that can be either really good or really bad depending on the matchup. I don't like that kind of attribute in a card. It also does not kill delver or tarmogoyf the vast majority of the time. Ugin is great and I still play it, but most of the time they're disrupting you with wastelands, discard, and counter magic and it can end up being too slow.

MVP's - Ancient Stirrings, Cavern of souls.

I'm never playing this deck without ancient stirrings again. It's absolutely nuts how good it is in this deck. Better than brainstorm most of the time I'd even say.
Explore is also an underrated card in this archetype, it does everything you want to be doing.

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

3 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga

3 Expedition Map
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
4 Pithing Needle
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Explore
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Warping Wail

SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Bonfire of the Damned
SB: 1 World Breaker
SB: 2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

From this list i'm dropping a warping wail and adding a fourth top. I might change Mina if she's not good but I haven't had a chance to try her yet. Some number of Thought-knot seer will probably also be added.

[TheBoozeCube]

Went 4-1 in my first league online with this list:
Land
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
8 Forest

Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Spells
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle

Sideboard
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Beast Within

Matchups were:
Merfolk (2-1)
Shardless (2-0)
Deathblade (2-1)
Goblin Stompy (0-2)
Grixis Thopter Sword [Joe Lossett] (2-0)

I'm testing Beast Within right now, but it hasn't done much yet. I'll be looking to test a few other cards in that slot: Thought-Knot, second O Stone, new Koz, Endbringer.


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[drude1]

I took R/G 12 post to two weeklies in a row, going 3-1 each time. The first tournament I faced Miracles(2-1), Miracles(2-0), Storm(1-2), Jund(2-0). The second I faced Rug Delver(1-2), 2nd round bye, Junk Nic Fit (2-0), Elves (2-0).

Before playing this version I felt I was losing too much to fair creature decks, the decks you're supposedly favored in. With kozilek's return and bonfire I finally have the early interaction I need to fight their creatures. This buys me enough time to assemble my pieces and win. Repeal and moment's peace are really weak in my opinion, having played them in the U/G version. There's too many deathrite shamans for moment's peace to be good, and repeal doesn't buy you enough time considering U/G is even slower with less ramp. Warping wail is a high variance card that can be either really good or really bad depending on the matchup. I don't like that kind of attribute in a card. It also does not kill delver or tarmogoyf the vast majority of the time. Ugin is great and I still play it, but most of the time they're disrupting you with wastelands, discard, and counter magic and it can end up being too slow.

MVP's - Ancient Stirrings, Cavern of souls.

I'm never playing this deck without ancient stirrings again. It's absolutely nuts how good it is in this deck. Better than brainstorm most of the time I'd even say.
Explore is also an underrated card in this archetype, it does everything you want to be doing.

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

3 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga

3 Expedition Map
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
4 Pithing Needle
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Explore
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Warping Wail

SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Bonfire of the Damned
SB: 1 World Breaker
SB: 2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

From this list i'm dropping a warping wail and adding a fourth top. I might change Mina if she's not good but I haven't had a chance to try her yet. Some number of Thought-knot seer will probably also be added.

So I am also on G/R (loving it!) and am playing a somewhat similar list. I agree that ancient stirring is bonkers in this deck. I have to disagree somewhat with your take on warping wail though. First I would say that, just like Kozilek's Return, it shines in some MUs and is less than great in others. However, I think the warping wail list of good MUs is actually higher, as it kills deathrites, elves, stoneforge, early delvers, painter, snapcaster, v.clique, revoker, and most of the white dorks in D&T. It also counters show & tell, thoughtseize, hymn, ancestral vision, infernal tutor, past in flames, dark petition, reanimate, exhume, glimpse, GSZ, natural order, loam, council's judgement, maelstrom pulse, and several other important spells. Worst case, it ramps you up one turn with a token. When Kozilek's Return is good, it's really good. But it also does absolutely nothing in a bunch of other MUs. I am currently running 2 K.return and 3 warping wail and have a hard time cutting a wail due to it's huge utility.
As for thought-knot, awesome...see previous posts. How has bonfire been for you? I really like the card but hate seeing it in my opening hand. Also curious about world breaker. I considered it when it first came out but just seems like a worse version of Nulamog. Mina also seems really random unless you were playing with GSZ, but I've never used it so can't comment on it. I would also have a hard time moving Ugin to the SB but definitely get what you are talking about, as that has happened to me as well. I do also think that Ugin may be losing it's utility as eldrazi, MUD and other "colorless" decks become more popular.

@boozecube: how are you holding up against the eldrazi menace? Ugin and All is Dust is just so bad against that MU. You have the advantage of Maze + candels though, which I love. I'm also interested in how endbringer works for you. Always enjoy reading your posts.

[mykatdied]

One of the nice things I found with bonfire is that once people know you run it, they fear it. My fiance and myself have both had a few instances where we look at our card drawn for turn, count our mana and then just draw the card. The nice thing in post is that the card isn't flat out dead in our hand. Even with 3 post and a taiga in play we can represent around 4 damage to the face and board which oftentimes will board wipe our opponents. Miracled is just gross though with the mana we can produce. It has led to a lot of mind fucking our opponent's and slowing down aggro opponents afraid of getting board wiped.

[TheBoozeCube]

@boozecube: how are you holding up against the eldrazi menace? Ugin and All is Dust is just so bad against that MU. You have the advantage of Maze + candels though, which I love. I'm also interested in how endbringer works for you. Always enjoy reading your posts.

Honestly, I still haven't played much against it yet. If it does become more popular, I think that might be the deciding factor in going to a second SB O Stone. I'd have to see a pretty big uptick in Eldrazi and MUD before cutting Dust/Ugin main for them, however, as they're just so devastating against the rest of the field (besides Storm, anyway) while still leaving your Needles and Candles intact.


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[Ecstatic_Conch]

So I am also on G/R (loving it!) and am playing a somewhat similar list. I agree that ancient stirring is bonkers in this deck. I have to disagree somewhat with your take on warping wail though. First I would say that, just like Kozilek's Return, it shines in some MUs and is less than great in others. However, I think the warping wail list of good MUs is actually higher, as it kills deathrites, elves, stoneforge, early delvers, painter, snapcaster, v.clique, revoker, and most of the white dorks in D&T. It also counters show & tell, thoughtseize, hymn, ancestral vision, infernal tutor, past in flames, dark petition, reanimate, exhume, glimpse, GSZ, natural order, loam, council's judgement, maelstrom pulse, and several other important spells. Worst case, it ramps you up one turn with a token. When Kozilek's Return is good, it's really good. But it also does absolutely nothing in a bunch of other MUs. I am currently running 2 K.return and 3 warping wail and have a hard time cutting a wail due to it's huge utility.
As for thought-knot, awesome...see previous posts. How has bonfire been for you? I really like the card but hate seeing it in my opening hand. Also curious about world breaker. I considered it when it first came out but just seems like a worse version of Nulamog. Mina also seems really random unless you were playing with GSZ, but I've never used it so can't comment on it. I would also have a hard time moving Ugin to the SB but definitely get what you are talking about, as that has happened to me as well. I do also think that Ugin may be losing it's utility as eldrazi, MUD and other "colorless" decks become more popular.

@boozecube: how are you holding up against the eldrazi menace? Ugin and All is Dust is just so bad against that MU. You have the advantage of Maze + candels though, which I love. I'm also interested in how endbringer works for you. Always enjoy reading your posts.


Not long after making my post I actually thought again about warping wail and tried to think of match-ups where it was bad and I couldn't think of many. I think my opinion was warped (excuse the pun) by playing against RUG Delver and Moggcatcher stompy where I wished the card was anything else. So for sure you're right about this one. I even countered a catacylsm once with it which is such a "counter or lose" type spell so that counts for something. If I could think of something to cut I'd probably play around 2 warping wails.
The idea of moving ugin to the sideboard was because of space constraints and I added Kozilek's return while expecting the graveyard trigger to act as my sweeper G1. In ugin's place I added a kozilek to help trigger return. Post board Worldbreaker can also do that which is nice. While it is also nice not having ugin game one against MUD or other colorless decks, it's still going to be an absolute bomb in a majority of match-ups that maindeck inclusion is probably correct.

Worldbreaker is awesome because the trigger is uncounterable. And, if they do counter it, you can always return it to your hand for multiple triggers. I know Krosan Grip is basically uncounterable, but I once tried to grip a sensei's top with a counterbalance in play and he flipped a blood moon. Brutal. It's also another big idiot that blocks well. I once had someone attack into it with their vendillion clique because they didn't realize it had reach. oops.
I've never actually drawn Mina so I have no idea if it's any good. My cynical guess is the body is not big enough to be a good combat deterrent and it doesn't ramp as well as oracle. It does however protect you somewhat against wasteland if you have R/G up, which might be too much to ask for. I will probably just swap her for Thought-Knot Seer when I get some.

Bonfire I haven't used much, but when it's needed it's a godsend. I had a pretty stacked hand against elves and that was the card they took with thoughtseize. It's really not bad if you see it in your opener or draw it early. The deck makes so much mana that double X is not as huge of a drawback as it could be in other decks. You could even potentially fireball someone out if they took too much damage with sylvan library, ancient tombs, bobs, fetches, etc. since they aren't expecting you to attack their life total really.

[Zotmaster]

Still on mono-green, still running a very similar list to BoozeCube. Went 5-1 today, albeit against a few really weird brews, including the strangest thing I've ever seen, and a really awesome Bant Painter list.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
6 Forest
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
1 Wastes
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Oblivion Stone
2 Endbringer
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus

The important takeaway from this list - aside from the fact that it's still not fully refined - is that I'm moving away from Sensei's Divining Top. BoozeCube and I have different philosophies, and while I love the dig of Ancient Stirrings, I hate burying cards: particularly sideboard cards. This list is my first step toward trying to see if I can adapt to not having Top, which explains some of the weird choices. I like the idea of O-Stone main as it does have some play against Stompy decks, especially if Eldrazi whatever becomes more of a thing. Rachet Bomb is additional insurance while also giving me another hedge against tokens or Chalice of the Void on 1 or 3. I still don't particularly like Spatial Contortion, but in dropping Tops, it makes more sense than Dismember since I need to guarantee I draw it. Relic of Progenitus kind of operates on the same principle. I guess it could be Tormod's Crypt too, but the fact that it has a little extra play against Leyline of Sanctity and Deathrite Shaman is appealing to me.

Wastes seems fine to me as a one-of. The most flexible slots are the aforementioned Oblivion Stone and Endbringer. Endbringer's flexibility seems pretty cool, but it could just as easily be All is Dust, Karn Liberated, or even Wurmcoil Engine. It still needs to be tested further, but I am cautiously optimistic with the general concept.

And now, a rant. I played the most random deck I've ever seen, and I've played casual decks since 1995. Here is a sample of the cards that were played:

Tithe. Enlightened Tutor for Circle of Protection: Artifacts. Flagstones of Trokair. Ajani, Caller of the Pride. Ancient Tomb. Thought-Knot Seer. Matter Reshaper. Oblivion Ring. Powder Keg. I have never been so confused playing a game of Magic in my life. Oh yeah. Not only did I lose one game to him, but I also had to cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth three times in a second game before I pulled out a win.

[TheBoozeCube]

Still on mono-green, still running a very similar list to BoozeCube. Went 5-1 today, albeit against a few really weird brews, including the strangest thing I've ever seen, and a really awesome Bant Painter list.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
6 Forest
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
1 Wastes
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Oblivion Stone
2 Endbringer
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus

The important takeaway from this list - aside from the fact that it's still not fully refined - is that I'm moving away from Sensei's Divining Top. BoozeCube and I have different philosophies, and while I love the dig of Ancient Stirrings, I hate burying cards: particularly sideboard cards. This list is my first step toward trying to see if I can adapt to not having Top, which explains some of the weird choices. I like the idea of O-Stone main as it does have some play against Stompy decks, especially if Eldrazi whatever becomes more of a thing. Rachet Bomb is additional insurance while also giving me another hedge against tokens or Chalice of the Void on 1 or 3. I still don't particularly like Spatial Contortion, but in dropping Tops, it makes more sense than Dismember since I need to guarantee I draw it. Relic of Progenitus kind of operates on the same principle. I guess it could be Tormod's Crypt too, but the fact that it has a little extra play against Leyline of Sanctity and Deathrite Shaman is appealing to me.

Wastes seems fine to me as a one-of. The most flexible slots are the aforementioned Oblivion Stone and Endbringer. Endbringer's flexibility seems pretty cool, but it could just as easily be All is Dust, Karn Liberated, or even Wurmcoil Engine. It still needs to be tested further, but I am cautiously optimistic with the general concept.

And now, a rant. I played the most random deck I've ever seen, and I've played casual decks since 1995. Here is a sample of the cards that were played:

Tithe. Enlightened Tutor for Circle of Protection: Artifacts. Flagstones of Trokair. Ajani, Caller of the Pride. Ancient Tomb. Thought-Knot Seer. Matter Reshaper. Oblivion Ring. Powder Keg. I have never been so confused playing a game of Magic in my life. Oh yeah. Not only did I lose one game to him, but I also had to cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth three times in a second game before I pulled out a win.

This a truly fascinating list. I have so many questions:

1) Did you have any issues only running 6x Forests? I've been dying to test Sea Gate Wreckage, but the only realistic slot would be to cut a Forest (from 8 to 7) or utility land. Even after going down to just 8x green cards main, I've been too nervous to try. I'm very interested to hear how it's played for you with 6.

2) How has Endbringer played? I shoved a couple into my Modern Eldrazi deck before FNM last week and was blown away by how easily it took over games. What matchups did you find it worked well/poorly in? What abilities did you find most useful? How often did you tutor for it?

3) Why the 1x Wastes? Just a concession to Blood Moon?


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[Morden]

another "interesting" report, for people who like UG(w) build. I had a tournament with more than 50 people, 6 different matchups.

1° match: infect (0-2). Game 1: he has elf and nexus in play.....I have in my hand S&T, emrakul, warping wail and 4 mana. I decided to try dropping Emrakul and block at least 1 of his creatures. He attacks, pumping the unblocked with invitorate and vines. Lost (I already had 1 poison counter). I could have played warping maybe, in response to his first invigorate. But with vines the result is the same. Game 2: I kept an hand with no hate and very slow, only a sensei. I played the sensei, he plays needle...... on turn 3 he attacks with an elf and plays FOUR invigorate. ok.......

2° match: D&T (2-0). Game 1: he mulligans to 5, but he puts some pressure, with thalia and brimaz. So I decided to put Emrakul with S&T (again) hoping he doesn't topdeck a Karakas. He doesn't, gg. Game 2:he doens't push to much, only a rishadan port that can be annoying, I needled it. He plays stoneforge for a batterskul, I have krosan grip. Cloudpost, cloudpost, ulamog, gg.

3° match: 4c delver (2-0). I'm not familiar with this deck, I don't know exactly how to play against him. I discovered after that he doesn't play wasteland (and I kept needles post side...Game 1: I saw a delver, StP immediately (with 1 mana open in case of daze). With no wasteland, I can play Ulamog quite fast, exiling his unique menace, one tarmo. Game 2: the critical part of the game is on turn 3. He knows what I have in hand (gitaxian probed), I have 2 S&T, emrakul and titan: I try with S&T, resolves......ha has one mana open.....I think he has stifle, so at the beginning I think to put emrakul......but I decided that titan is better, at least he wastes a stifle and I can still have 2 lands attacking the next turn. Right choice!! He drops an Ashen Rider, exiling the titan. With the 2 lands I can some rounds after cast the Emrakul and win.

4° match: burn (0-2). Game 1: I know he plays burn.......my hand is not so bad: 2 titans and 1 S&T. I arrive at the point to have 2 titan in plays, I'm at 10 life points........ Price of progress, price of progress, fireblast -_- -_-. Game 2: I go to 1, he didnt' cast any PoP.....I have ugin and titan on the field, 1 mana open for flusterstor. He has 4 mountains, nothing in hand.....his turn.........draw: price of progress. F*********!!!! Useless flusterstorm in hand.....

5° match: monoredIhateYou (0-2).......I don't know exactly how to call this deck......after I discover he has 4 magus of the moon, 4 bloodmoon, 4 chalice of the void maindeck. Game 1: bloodmoon on turn 2.....ensnaring bridge on turn 3.....I have a titan on the field, thanks to S&T, but I'm blocked. He finishes me attacking with magus.... Games 2: very fast. Turn 1, island pass. He plays ancient tomb, chalice of the void; brainstorm in response, viewing a candelabra, a sensei and a land.....turn 2 land, pass. He plays a land, pass. Turn 3 I play a land, pass. He plays..........Thoughts of Ruin O__O. GG, I don't wanna live anymore.

6° match: miracle (2-0) Game 1: he doens't have any creature to push any pressure on my, easy cavern->titan. Game 2: he has only 2 lands for at least 5 turn, I can play Ulamog exiling his manabase and win.


In general, I'm VERY VERY happy of this build. Ulamog is confirmed, main absolutely. Terminus also, with infect, D&T, delver gave me a lot of breath. I feel a little sad to not have mainboard some responses against bloodmoon/chalice/other awful things that are equal to a victory for the opponent.....but this is the risk to play with no counters. I tought about Engineered Explosives, but only a copy, without trinket mage is useless. And I don't want to remove anything, in general the list is very solid.

[Postman]

another "interesting" report, for people who like UG(w) build. I had a tournament with more than 50 people, 6 different matchups.

1° match: infect (0-2). Game 1: he has elf and nexus in play.....I have in my hand S&T, emrakul, warping wail and 4 mana. I decided to try dropping Emrakul and block at least 1 of his creatures. He attacks, pumping the unblocked with invitorate and vines. Lost (I already had 1 poison counter). I could have played warping maybe, in response to his first invigorate. But with vines the result is the same. Game 2: I kept an hand with no hate and very slow, only a sensei. I played the sensei, he plays needle...... on turn 3 he attacks with an elf and plays FOUR invigorate. ok.......

2° match: D&T (2-0). Game 1: he mulligans to 5, but he puts some pressure, with thalia and brimaz. So I decided to put Emrakul with S&T (again) hoping he doesn't topdeck a Karakas. He doesn't, gg. Game 2:he doens't push to much, only a rishadan port that can be annoying, I needled it. He plays stoneforge for a batterskul, I have krosan grip. Cloudpost, cloudpost, ulamog, gg.

3° match: 4c delver (2-0). I'm not familiar with this deck, I don't know exactly how to play against him. I discovered after that he doesn't play wasteland (and I kept needles post side...Game 1: I saw a delver, StP immediately (with 1 mana open in case of daze). With no wasteland, I can play Ulamog quite fast, exiling his unique menace, one tarmo. Game 2: the critical part of the game is on turn 3. He knows what I have in hand (gitaxian probed), I have 2 S&T, emrakul and titan: I try with S&T, resolves......ha has one mana open.....I think he has stifle, so at the beginning I think to put emrakul......but I decided that titan is better, at least he wastes a stifle and I can still have 2 lands attacking the next turn. Right choice!! He drops an Ashen Rider, exiling the titan. With the 2 lands I can some rounds after cast the Emrakul and win.

4° match: burn (0-2). Game 1: I know he plays burn.......my hand is not so bad: 2 titans and 1 S&T. I arrive at the point to have 2 titan in plays, I'm at 10 life points........ Price of progress, price of progress, fireblast -_- -_-. Game 2: I go to 1, he didnt' cast any PoP.....I have ugin and titan on the field, 1 mana open for flusterstor. He has 4 mountains, nothing in hand.....his turn.........draw: price of progress. F*********!!!! Useless flusterstorm in hand.....

5° match: monoredIhateYou (0-2).......I don't know exactly how to call this deck......after I discover he has 4 magus of the moon, 4 bloodmoon, 4 chalice of the void maindeck. Game 1: bloodmoon on turn 2.....ensnaring bridge on turn 3.....I have a titan on the field, thanks to S&T, but I'm blocked. He finishes me attacking with magus.... Games 2: very fast. Turn 1, island pass. He plays ancient tomb, chalice of the void; brainstorm in response, viewing a candelabra, a sensei and a land.....turn 2 land, pass. He plays a land, pass. Turn 3 I play a land, pass. He plays..........Thoughts of Ruin O__O. GG, I don't wanna live anymore.

6° match: miracle (2-0) Game 1: he doens't have any creature to push any pressure on my, easy cavern->titan. Game 2: he has only 2 lands for at least 5 turn, I can play Ulamog exiling his manabase and win.


In general, I'm VERY VERY happy of this build. Ulamog is confirmed, main absolutely. Terminus also, with infect, D&T, delver gave me a lot of breath. I feel a little sad to not have mainboard some responses against bloodmoon/chalice/other awful things that are equal to a victory for the opponent.....but this is the risk to play with no counters. I tought about Engineered Explosives, but only a copy, without trinket mage is useless. And I don't want to remove anything, in general the list is very solid.
What's your current list? 3 or 4 Terminus, and how many StP? Also interested in the manabase... Did a small test at a tournament with UGr, for Kozilek's Return. Results were extremly bad, but KR performed well. Several games 1 I saw Chalice @1 on turn 2 or even turn 1, ugly!

[Morden]

lool sorry, I forgot the list
2 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
2 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Expedition Map
1 Forest
2 Warping Wail
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
3 Terminus
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Flooded Strand
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog


I tried kozi's return, but terminus is much much much better.....ok, you can draw it when you don't want it (also kozi's return for some aspects) but this is truly the only drawback: it costs only 1 (being easy to cast also under daze or pierce) and it removes EVERY creature that kozi's return cannot do (big tarmo, true name nemesis, an army of buffed merfolks.....)

[Zotmaster]

This a truly fascinating list. I have so many questions:

1) Did you have any issues only running 6x Forests? I've been dying to test Sea Gate Wreckage, but the only realistic slot would be to cut a Forest (from 8 to 7) or utility land. Even after going down to just 8x green cards main, I've been too nervous to try. I'm very interested to hear how it's played for you with 6.

6 did not seem like a problem in the games I played. Perhaps it does mean you can't Crop Rotation with quite the same level of wild abandon, but I had green when I needed it. There are only 8 green spells in the main deck as it is, and none requires a second colored mana.


2) How has Endbringer played? I shoved a couple into my Modern Eldrazi deck before FNM last week and was blown away by how easily it took over games. What matchups did you find it worked well/poorly in? What abilities did you find most useful? How often did you tutor for it?

Endbringer was a "hey, let's try something that costs a few less mana in that slot" and his array of abilities seemed interesting to me. He has potential, but I played against a lot of weird stuff last night and the jury is still out. I never tutored for him, though. I'm probably still going to be tuning this for a little while: that slot and the O-Stones are totally up in the air and could probably be just about anything that's colorless and scares the opponent. The only tutoring I did was for the big ones.


3) Why the 1x Wastes? Just a concession to Blood Moon?

More or less. It does mean that every spell in the deck can be cast under a Moon: or Moon and Candel, in new Kozilek's case.

Obviously your mono-green concept, which you've been on for at least as long as I've been here, is sound. I've had success with mono-green as well as U/G, but I've enjoyed the mono-green approach a bit more. Obviously, we both are different players with different styles, but the general concept is clearly one that can be used to win.

Top has always felt like an MVP to me, whereas you always found it wanting. I actually liked pairing it with Ancient Stirrings: tap Top to draw the top card, cast Stirrings, and in the worst case you just pick up the Top again. Nonetheless, I figured I'd try cutting Tops completely as a concept and wanted to adjust the deck as a result. One of the things that most worries me is that a lot of your original sideboard is colored cards, and Ancient Stirrings blasts by all of them. I didn't want to be relying on topdecks to get the sideboard cards I needed, Grip notwithstanding, so I started with the current configuration.

[TheBoozeCube]

Top has always felt like an MVP to me, whereas you always found it wanting. I actually liked pairing it with Ancient Stirrings: tap Top to draw the top card, cast Stirrings, and in the worst case you just pick up the Top again. Nonetheless, I figured I'd try cutting Tops completely as a concept and wanted to adjust the deck as a result. One of the things that most worries me is that a lot of your original sideboard is colored cards, and Ancient Stirrings blasts by all of them. I didn't want to be relying on topdecks to get the sideboard cards I needed, Grip notwithstanding, so I started with the current configuration.

Yeah, that's always been an issue with my board configuration. I've always preferred finding colorless options, where possible.

On that note, your Ratchet Bomb has also really got me thinking. If the Eldrazi deck continues to be a problem, being able to take out all Chalices for 2 colorless is solid. But perhaps Powder Keg might be an option? It's almost identical, but I used to run it back in the day when Affinity was big in my local meta because it takes out artifact lands and manlands. The significant difference is that it doesn't hit planeswalkers and enchantments (so it can't hit Blood Moon). But given that most of the Eldrazi lists run Mishra's Factory, you might be able to get some surprise blowouts. It also would be great against Infect, since they can't even save their Inkmoths with Vines.


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[Zotmaster]

On that note, your Ratchet Bomb has also really got me thinking. If the Eldrazi deck continues to be a problem, being able to take out all Chalices for 2 colorless is solid. But perhaps Powder Keg might be an option? It's almost identical, but I used to run it back in the day when Affinity was big in my local meta because it takes out artifact lands and manlands. The significant difference is that it doesn't hit planeswalkers and enchantments (so it can't hit Blood Moon). But given that most of the Eldrazi lists run Mishra's Factory, you might be able to get some surprise blowouts. It also would be great against Infect, since they can't even save their Inkmoths with Vines.

I admit I'm not 100% sure, but Ratchet Bomb was the first card I thought of and I think it would almost always be better than Powder Keg. True, it doesn't hit man lands, but Pithing Needle, Vesuva, and Krosan Grip can help bridge that gap if they're a concern. I always board in at least one Grip in every single matchup I ever play just as a hedge against something unexpected, and in most matches I'm bringing in more than that. Either has play against tokens and Chalice of the Void - which was the main reason my thoughts went to Bomb first - but that little bit of extra flexibility of Bomb I think more than makes up for the shortcoming of not hitting man lands. Hopefully I'll be able to test more tomorrow, or else I'll have to see what I can learn at my LGS later this week.

[TheBoozeCube]

I admit I'm not 100% sure, but Ratchet Bomb was the first card I thought of and I think it would almost always be better than Powder Keg. True, it doesn't hit man lands, but Pithing Needle, Vesuva, and Krosan Grip can help bridge that gap if they're a concern. I always board in at least one Grip in every single matchup I ever play just as a hedge against something unexpected, and in most matches I'm bringing in more than that. Either has play against tokens and Chalice of the Void - which was the main reason my thoughts went to Bomb first - but that little bit of extra flexibility of Bomb I think more than makes up for the shortcoming of not hitting man lands. Hopefully I'll be able to test more tomorrow, or else I'll have to see what I can learn at my LGS later this week.

Yeah, you're probably right. Especially without Exploration anymore, having more cards that can hit Blood Moon on the cheap is probably a lot better than taking out the odd manland. I'm going to do some online testing with a couple of Ratchet Bombs in the board. I think it has real potential in the meta. Especially since if Eldrazi Stompy becomes a real thing, Imperial Painter seems poised to make a comeback to fight it.

[cherson]

Yeah, you're probably right. Especially without Exploration anymore, having more cards that can hit Blood Moon on the cheap is probably a lot better than taking out the odd manland. I'm going to do some online testing with a couple of Ratchet Bombs in the board. I think it has real potential in the meta. Especially since if Eldrazi Stompy becomes a real thing, Imperial Painter seems poised to make a comeback to fight it.
Why don't u play exploration anymore? I am on the mono g list and can't afford candelabra at the moment and I love exploration. I play 2 MD and they speed up the whole process. On top, I love the combination with exploration in game and ancient, to drop the land drawn. Or is that exactly the reason, because exploration is not colorless?

[TheBoozeCube]

Why don't u play exploration anymore? I am on the mono g list and can't afford candelabra at the moment and I love exploration. I play 2 MD and they speed up the whole process. On top, I love the combination with exploration in game and ancient, to drop the land drawn. Or is that exactly the reason, because exploration is not colorless?

I needed to make room for Warping Wail. That's pretty much it.


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[cherson]

My current list, but tbh I am not not really satisfied because I worry that I mix too many things in one deck.
I didn't test it too much,but especially the number of forests seems too low.

1x Bojuka
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
3x Forest
1x Glacial chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
2x Maze of Ith
1x Savannah
1x thespian stage
2x Vesuva
3x Windswept Heath

2x Ugin

1x Emrakul
1x Kozilek, Butcher
3x Primeval Titan
3x thought knot seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless

4x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle
3x top

4x Crop Rotation
3x Warping Wail

1x all is dust
4x Ancient Stirrings

2x exploration

[mykatdied]

My current list, but tbh I am not not really satisfied because I worry that I mix too many things in one deck.
I didn't test it too much,but especially the number of forests seems too low.

1x Bojuka
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
3x Forest
1x Glacial chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
2x Maze of Ith
1x Savannah
1x thespian stage
2x Vesuva
3x Windswept Heath

2x Ugin

1x Emrakul
1x Kozilek, Butcher
3x Primeval Titan
3x thought knot seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless

4x Expedition Map
3x Pithing Needle
3x top

4x Crop Rotation
3x Warping Wail

1x all is dust
4x Ancient Stirrings

2x exploration

Glacial Chasm main board can probably just be another forest. Otherwise it is probably fine. Maybe the second maze for another forest if you really feel you need more. I'm assuming Savannah represents you are splashing white solely for sideboard cards? If that is the case I highly suggest the 4th green fetchland and at least a second Savannah out of the board. You are really tough for white sources.

[Emrakul503]

Do any of you GR players stream? Or have videos online? I would be interested in seeing how you all deal with things. I had a much better showing with UG this past weekend, and feel pretty happy/confident with my knowledge of that version. It's the GR version that I am still struggling with. I would also love to see any other videos/streams for other versions of the deck. I enjoy watching people play the deck regardless!

[drude1]

Do any of you GR players stream? Or have videos online? I would be interested in seeing how you all deal with things. I had a much better showing with UG this past weekend, and feel pretty happy/confident with my knowledge of that version. It's the GR version that I am still struggling with. I would also love to see any other videos/streams for other versions of the deck. I enjoy watching people play the deck regardless!

I stream legacy occasionally and am either playing GR post or painter. I have a few videos saved. My twitch handle is Rude_Eternal.
And yes, I think Painter is really well positioned right now. Turbo Eldrazi decks pretty much just scoop.


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[Zotmaster]

And yes, I think Painter is really well positioned right now. Turbo Eldrazi decks pretty much just scoop.

To Painter? If you Needle Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, they can only beat you with bear beats. Even under Moon effects, if you get to 8 mana they just die. Even if they get something like Rest in Peace to go along with the mill plan, Warping Wail kills Painter's Servant.

[Hopo]

To Painter? If you Needle Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, they can only beat you with bear beats.

That would be true if they didn't play Painters servant and up to 8 blasts to Vindicate things.

If you have colorless sweepers you can just make land drops and hope to draw one. They can't combo but you can't ramp so that leaves dork beats and maybe Koth to kill you. It's not auto-loss but it's still very frustrating to navigate through. If they get Jaya active, it's probably a good idea to scoop because you won't get any land drops anymore. Show and Tell gives you some game if you are UG as new koz, Ulamogs and Emrakul deal with blasts naturally. Of course there's Ensnaring Bridge still to deal with.

[TheBoozeCube]

Do any of you GR players stream? Or have videos online? I would be interested in seeing how you all deal with things. I had a much better showing with UG this past weekend, and feel pretty happy/confident with my knowledge of that version. It's the GR version that I am still struggling with. I would also love to see any other videos/streams for other versions of the deck. I enjoy watching people play the deck regardless!

I've been looking into setting up a stream, using my Colorless Green build. I think I've got most of the technical stuff figured out. Wife will be out of town next week, so I'm hoping to go live with it to give me something to do. My Twitch handle is "theboozecube."


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[TheBoozeCube]

That would be true if they didn't play Painters servant and up to 8 blasts to Vindicate things.

If you have colorless sweepers you can just make land drops and hope to draw one. They can't combo but you can't ramp so that leaves dork beats and maybe Koth to kill you. It's not auto-loss but it's still very frustrating to navigate through. If they get Jaya active, it's probably a good idea to scoop because you won't get any land drops anymore. Show and Tell gives you some game if you are UG as new koz, Ulamogs and Emrakul deal with blasts naturally. Of course there's Ensnaring Bridge still to deal with.

It's a difficult matchup, but certainly not autoscoop. Krosan Grip and Oblivion Stone do a lot of heavy lifting. Ratchet Bomb should also be a solid option if this gets popular again.


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[cherson]

I've been looking into setting up a stream, using my Colorless Green build. I think I've got most of the technical stuff figured out. Wife will be out of town next week, so I'm hoping to go live with it to give me something to do. My Twitch handle is "theboozecube."


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Will u stream the whole day or at a fixed time? Will u also record the games and put them on twitch?

[drude1]

To Painter? If you Needle Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, they can only beat you with bear beats. Even under Moon effects, if you get to 8 mana they just die. Even if they get something like Rest in Peace to go along with the mill plan, Warping Wail kills Painter's Servant.

First, let me restate this. I'm not talking about 12 post, although this MU I think is favored for painter as well (see below). However, I was talking about the new Eldrazi decks with mimics and such. The combination of painter's servant and blood moon pretty much makes the majority of their deck unplayable. Combining the two biggest sideboard strategies against that deck in modern into your main win cons in legacy fares well for painter in that MU.

As for painter vs 12-post, not such a lop sided affair. But I would still take the painter position most of the time if I had a choice. Game one is usually close as painter can blood moon but can't combo through Emrakul and friends. Like you said, it's a matter of being able to get to 8mana before dying against bears. U/G can also show and tell early. But the downside of the U/G build is that painter is playing with blasts and U/G is also only playing with 1-2 basics a lot of the time. Good painter players will definitely go for Jaya (this MU is the primary reason Jaya is in the deck) and shut off mana resources.
Post sideboard, most painter players just take out a lot of the combo and beat down with dorks and alt win cons like Koth. and yes, Jaya does a lot of work still. Warping wail isn't that effective with a moon effect in play. And that is always priority one. Side out grindstones. Side in magus (i.e. more magus), more blasts, more dorks and alt win cons. However, if you can get to Ugin, that's usually lights out. I like the g/r post version the most due to board sweepers like Kozi's Return. Although oblivion stone can also get the job done sometimes as well.


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[Corazu]

First, let me restate this. I'm not talking about 12 post, although this MU I think is favored for painter as well (see below). However, I was talking about the new Eldrazi decks with mimics and such. The combination of painter's servant and blood moon pretty much makes the majority of their deck unplayable. Combining the two biggest sideboard strategies against that deck in modern into your main win cons in legacy fares well for painter in that MU.

The communication problem here is that you referred to Eldrazi Stompy as Turbo Eldrazi, which is the name of this thread/alternate name for 12-post (because 12-post is a misnomer considering very few configurations actually run 12 posts...usually only 1 or 2 vesuvas so it's 9-10post at best). Perhaps Turbo Eldrazi is a more fitting name for the new Eldrazi Stompy deck given how it plays out, but the name is already spoken for by this deck, which is where the confusion came in.

[Corazu]

To Painter? If you Needle Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, they can only beat you with bear beats. Even under Moon effects, if you get to 8 mana they just die. Even if they get something like Rest in Peace to go along with the mill plan, Warping Wail kills Painter's Servant.

I lost a game this way on UG post vs painter...lost to 3x Painter's Servant + Goblin Tinker beats in game 1.

Game 2 I blew up the board with Ugin..with a Painter's Servant on the board...the only permanent left surviving was Ugin himself, which did the job since my opponent had Ancient Tomb'd himself down to 11 life (and he didn't draw the Pyroblast to follow up with the new servant to get rid of it).

Game 3 I lost to Jaya. Matchup does seem rather uphill, particularly because I had no practice against it and so I didn't mull particularly well and I don't really have sideboard answers to it.

[MechTactical]

Went undefeated again this week, with a slight variation on the U/G build I have been succeeding with:

// Lands
1 [P2] Forest (3)
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [OGW] Wastes
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [CHK] Island (3)
1 [OGW] Sea Gate Wreckage

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [ROE] Ancient Stirrings
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 3 [MMA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Karn Liberated


Karn was hilariously clunky, and I think I will drop it for either needles or surgical extractions. Or drop relic for surgicals.

Matchups were Mono Blue Control (2-0), Tinfins (2-0), Storm (2-1).

Well Sir, as far as my testing goes (online) this ver. of the deck is very bad against the aggro eldrazi menace, which is quite frequent here... I don't know, maybe i'm playing it wrong, but i just don't have any answers to it, pre or post board... can you reflect on this particular match-up?

[Corazu]

Well Sir, as far as my testing goes (online) this ver. of the deck is very bad against the aggro eldrazi menace, which is quite frequent here... I don't know, maybe i'm playing it wrong, but i just don't have any answers to it, pre or post board... can you reflect on this particular match-up?

Presumably, Show and Telling a Platinum Emperion is almost game against them. I believe the stock list only has Ratchet Bomb as a potential answer, which means they'd have to find one and tick it up to 8 before you got anything else going on the board. Either that or they're looking at something like some combo of Dismember and Spatial Contortion (or 2 Dismembers). Basically, landing one of those should be enough to give you the time needed to take over the game. It's not necessarily a dependable strategy, but you still have Prime Time + glimmer post, as well as Glacial Chasm coming in from sideboard.

I think the main point though, is that Rock Lee's meta hasn't really seen any Eldrazi Stompy so he hasn't played it much or at all and so hasn't had to/needed to tune vs it. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that was his answer somewhere else in this thread. Edit: This must have been someone else that said it, not Rock Lee. However, could speculate that is the case for him as well.

[maCHOOga]

Well Sir, as far as my testing goes (online) this ver. of the deck is very bad against the aggro eldrazi menace, which is quite frequent here... I don't know, maybe i'm playing it wrong, but i just don't have any answers to it, pre or post board... can you reflect on this particular match-up?

I had a conversation with some lands players this week and they believe its a good matchup for them.


I think the way to get them is taxing effects. We've been trying to figure it out how to beat it in Modern, but at least legacy has a wider card selection.

I also suspect Eldrazi will be the breakout deck at SCGPhilly. It's still a MUD deck at heard, so it will mulligan very poorly.

Here's a couple ideas to try, assuming your UG or WG:

- Elephant Grass is weak to chalice and ratchet bomb
- Ghostly prison/Propaganda seems real good. Force them to pay for attacks is really good. If they keep a eye/temple hand and you ghostly prison on turn 3, you've brick walled them.
- Painter Servant, shuts 1/2 of the sol lands. Seems like we can vindicate them with BEBs then. I don't think this good enough.
- Tabernacle (if you got it) is a great card that can gum them up if they are light on lands.
- Dueling Grounds (if your GW), lets them only attack with their biggest dude. Seems like a lock with maze of ith!
- Ensaring Bridge if you can unload your hand fast enough
- They are also weak to sweeps, Wrath or Oblivion Stone. The key is living long enough to be able to use them.

I'm om Tezz tonight with a myriad of hate cards: The Abyss, Ensaring Bridge, Baleful Strix, Toxic Deluge and Blood Moon. I hope to play against the incoming menace.

[militiaman89]

Anyone tried living wish?

[TheBoozeCube]

I just thought of a few more options to combat Eldrazi Stompy:
Crawlspace - Cheap, colorless, difficult to Ratchet Bomb, combos well with Maze of Ith, reasonable in other matchups trying to go wide (especially Pyromancers)
Silent Arbiter - Slightly more expensive than Crawlspace at 4, but more effective, can be tutored up with Eye, has a body to block, immune to Abrupt Decay
Storage Matrix - Slows them down by forcing them to choose between untapping creatures and lands. Affects us much less, as a single attack with our creatures is usually endgame anyway.
Meekstone - Downside is that it is vulnerable to Chalice, and doesn't stop Mimics, Revokers, or Endless One on 2. Also lets them attack once. But also seems strong on the play for very cheap, and we can use Karakas to bounce our Eldrazi. (Probably not good enough, but I'm just throwing ideas out there.)


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[MechTactical]

I've been trying oblivion stone, but the problem with answers that don't come down T1/T2 is that they almost always manage to take it from my hand via thought-knot... 1 cmc are not good because of chalice obviously, leaving us i guess with 2 cmc?. I also have trouble SBing since i have to bring in Kgrips that don't hit their threats and take up space in MB and i usually die even if i get to cast it. Thorn of Amethyst is pretty bad against our 3 cmc spells and i often die with my 3 cmc stuck in my hand and/or exiled with thought-knot. Not to mention they are running wastelands... Really though match-up... just nasty... :rolleyes:
if you had to build a dedicated 12post hate deck for eldrazi stompy, what would it look like?

[cherson]

I just thought of a few more options to combat Eldrazi Stompy:
Crawlspace - Cheap, colorless, difficult to Ratchet Bomb, combos well with Maze of Ith, reasonable in other matchups trying to go wide (especially Pyromancers)


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I considered crawlspace as well. As u mentioned it is also very good in other matchups, goblin, elves, miracle mentor. Only downside is abrupt decay..
But I will definitely get one and try it.

[mykatdied]

I've been trying oblivion stone, but the problem with answers that don't come down T1/T2 is that they almost always manage to take it from my hand via thought-knot... 1 cmc are not good because of chalice obviously, leaving us i guess with 2 cmc?. I also have trouble SBing since i have to bring in Kgrips that don't hit their threats and take up space in MB and i usually die even if i get to cast it. Thorn of Amethyst is pretty bad against our 3 cmc spells and i often die with my 3 cmc stuck in my hand and/or exiled with thought-knot. Not to mention they are running wastelands... Really though match-up... just nasty... :rolleyes:
if you had to build a dedicated 12post hate deck for eldrazi stompy, what would it look like?

Tabernacle seems ok vs them, terminus naturally seems really good. If I were to dedicate a decklist to being eldrazi I would likely stick with gw, adding swords and terminus alongside ramp cards like exploration, and courser to help blunt the assault and get myself online as fast as they can.

[maCHOOga]

We know they are weak to wraths/terminus.... doesn't that make miracles better? Doesn't that in turn, make our deck better? :-D

Forcefield is another option, but who has those lying around! Maybe moment's peace into a sweeper is the best course of action?

Maybe we should just be killing the eldrazi's instead? Lol...Ambush Viper?

[rlesko]

I'm interested in playing this deck I'm in the process of acquiring a couple of candles but I have to admit it's pretty hard to follow along all the different builds.

G vs RG vs UG vs UW vs Bant 🙈

-Some UGx builds play stirrings, some not
-I've seen 0-3 pitching needles main
-repeal seems like it's being phased out, as well as moments peace

Has warping wail established itself as a staple of the deck? If so, how many copies?

[MechTactical]

We know they are weak to wraths/terminus.... doesn't that make miracles better? Doesn't that in turn, make our deck better? :-D

Forcefield is another option, but who has those lying around! Maybe moment's peace into a sweeper is the best course of action?

Maybe we should just be killing the eldrazi's instead? Lol...Ambush Viper?

Dude that's tits. tried a few games with viper yesterday (standard UG) and he was very good, but the match-ups were goblins and mud, so i can't say too much at this point, but he does cover a few angles and fits on the curve very well. Obviously he is unplayable against storm, lands, etc. i'll do more tests with him. it's funny when the opponent doesn't expect viper (why would he?) and attacks with for example metal worker :tongue: he definitely get's a few surprise factor points...

[maCHOOga]

Dude that's tits. tried a few games with viper yesterday (standard UG) and he was very good, but the match-ups were goblins and mud, so i can't say too much at this point, but he does cover a few angles and fits on the curve very well. Obviously he is unplayable against storm, lands, etc. i'll do more tests with him. it's funny when the opponent doesn't expect viper (why would he?) and attacks with for example metal worker :tongue: he definitely get's a few surprise factor points...

Sometimes you just need an actual Green Doomblade! It does get warping wailed however.

[TheBoozeCube]

Has warping wail established itself as a staple of the deck? If so, how many copies?

I certainly think so. I play 4x main in Colorless Green. The only problem I've had with it is that it makes sideboarding more difficult because I so rarely want to cut any (good problem for a card to have!). It strengthens our combo matchups, kills the majority of the most commonly played creatures, and can fog an attack to save your life. It's become the most versatile tool in the deck besides Crop Rotation.


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[rlesko]

I certainly think so. I play 4x main in Colorless Green. The only problem I've had with it is that it makes sideboarding more difficult because I so rarely want to cut any (good problem for a card to have!). It strengthens our combo matchups, kills the majority of the most commonly played creatures, and can fog an attack to save your life. It's become the most versatile tool in the deck besides Crop Rotation.


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This could be wrong, but it seems like the printing of that single card has significantly shored up weaknesses of nonblue versions of this deck by providing a colorless counterspell. Are you playing explorations in your build? Its a card that seems to synergize well with the strategy of a cloudpost deck but unlike 36lands.dec how do you steadily supply 2+ lands per turn?

[TheBoozeCube]

This could be wrong, but it seems like the printing of that single card has significantly shored up weaknesses of nonblue versions of this deck by providing a colorless counterspell. Are you playing explorations in your build? Its a card that seems to synergize well with the strategy of a cloudpost deck but unlike 36lands.dec how do you steadily supply 2+ lands per turn?

I used to play Exploration, but I cut them for Warping Wail. You kind of hit the nail on the head for why I cut them: amazing in the first two turns, terrible after that because you're not using the extra land drops.

[TheBoozeCube]

I just had yet another idea about how to fight the Eldrazi menace: Sylvan Scrying gets around Chalice. It also gets around Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Stifle, and other such things. And it just gives us that much more consistency generally. I'm not sure how many to run (and where they slot into the main and/or board). But it's an idea I'm definitely going to test, especially since finding Maze has been so instrumental to the Eldrazi matchup.


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[Zotmaster]

Going to be streaming some mono-green Post live on Cockatrice in a few minutes. Set sail for fail!

http://www.twitch.tv/zotmaster

EDIT: Mostly bad beats today, played a lot of random combo. Here's the list I'm currently testing, though.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
5 Forest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Expedition Map
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
3 Crop Rotation
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Warping Wail
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Oblivion Stone
2 Forcefield
1 Wastes
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

Forcefield seems like it could really have a place right now. It has a lot of game against Eldrazi Stompy, Infect, and Monastery Mentor garbage, and it's another safety valve against Lands. Against a lot of other combo, though, it is considerably less good. Still, I'm keeping it in for now.

[TheBoozeCube]

Going to be streaming some mono-green Post live on Cockatrice in a few minutes. Set sail for fail!

http://www.twitch.tv/zotmaster

EDIT: Mostly bad beats today, played a lot of random combo. Here's the list I'm currently testing, though.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
5 Forest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Expedition Map
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
3 Crop Rotation
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Warping Wail
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Oblivion Stone
2 Forcefield
1 Wastes
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

Forcefield seems like it could really have a place right now. It has a lot of game against Eldrazi Stompy, Infect, and Monastery Mentor garbage, and it's another safety valve against Lands. Against a lot of other combo, though, it is considerably less good. Still, I'm keeping it in for now.

I picked up some Forcefields to test on MTGO. Biggest problem (aside from cost in paper) with them is that they are vulnerable to Revoker and Decay. But I don't have enough experience with them yet to reach a verdict. I'd love to hear more about how they played for you in different matchups/situations.


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[rlesko]

Have people on the UG build given up on repeal for warping wail / ancient stirrings?

[TheBoozeCube]

Replay of one of the most awesome games I've played in a long time:
http://youtu.be/COdPVWeWS1Q


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[Mr. Froggy]

Replay of one of the most awesome games I've played in a long time:
http://youtu.be/COdPVWeWS1Q


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That was disgusting.... Wow...

[Zotmaster]

Replay of one of the most awesome games I've played in a long time:
http://youtu.be/COdPVWeWS1Q

Thank you for perfectly capturing everything I love about this deck in one clip.

To answer your question from earlier about Forcefield, the verdict is still out. The fact that they die to Abrupt Decay honestly doesn't worry me that much because it falls into the category of "well, so does every other artifact we run". Most of the stuff people bring in against us is artifact hate anyway, so it just is one more on the list. In the mean time, though, it shores up or otherwise reinforces us against basically every deck that relies on a combat step in order to win, with the exceptions of decks that win with Emrakul. So far I've played mostly combo decks in testing. The only fair decks I've played lately were RUG Delver and Deathblade, both of which I crushed. Landing a Forcefield did cause my Lands opponent to concede, however.

In general, the core is pretty much set. I am back on Sensei's Divining Top and I'm happy. You're a good enough player to where I won't say you're wrong for not running it, but for me I can't imagine being without it. Right now there are just a handful of cards that are in question for me: the aforementioned Forcefield, Oblivion Stone, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard. Perhaps I'm going too far and spreading myself too thin, but my goal is to address as many decks that win on the combat step as I can while also being able to deal with hate cards - particularly artifacts - that Ugin just can't handle. Forcefield addresses Infect, Monastery Mentor idiot swarms, and Inkwell Leviathan: taking one-point bug bites is infinitely preferable to taking chunks of 5 or more damage at one time. It's another answer to Elves if you don't have a Crop Rotation for whatever reason. O-Stone handles basically everything else, and Ratchet Bomb was a nod to the idiot swarms and Chalice of the Void on one. Silent Arbiter interests me though, as it's potentially another way to help make sure Karn Liberated stays alive. Karn keeps coming in and out of my lists because he handles permanents Ugin can't and can also win a game by himself. The problem is protecting him, because Ugin's impact is much more immediate.

Still, I have more testing to do. I adamantly refuse to buy cards on MTGO that I own in paper, so instead I play on Cockatrice. I will likely be streaming again tonight if anyone is interested. Sometimes people just brew the weirdest decks, though.

[TheBoozeCube]

Thank you for perfectly capturing everything I love about this deck in one clip.

To answer your question from earlier about Forcefield, the verdict is still out. The fact that they die to Abrupt Decay honestly doesn't worry me that much because it falls into the category of "well, so does every other artifact we run". Most of the stuff people bring in against us is artifact hate anyway, so it just is one more on the list. In the mean time, though, it shores up or otherwise reinforces us against basically every deck that relies on a combat step in order to win, with the exceptions of decks that win with Emrakul. So far I've played mostly combo decks in testing. The only fair decks I've played lately were RUG Delver and Deathblade, both of which I crushed. Landing a Forcefield did cause my Lands opponent to concede, however.

In general, the core is pretty much set. I am back on Sensei's Divining Top and I'm happy. You're a good enough player to where I won't say you're wrong for not running it, but for me I can't imagine being without it. Right now there are just a handful of cards that are in question for me: the aforementioned Forcefield, Oblivion Stone, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard. Perhaps I'm going too far and spreading myself too thin, but my goal is to address as many decks that win on the combat step as I can while also being able to deal with hate cards - particularly artifacts - that Ugin just can't handle. Forcefield addresses Infect, Monastery Mentor idiot swarms, and Inkwell Leviathan: taking one-point bug bites is infinitely preferable to taking chunks of 5 or more damage at one time. It's another answer to Elves if you don't have a Crop Rotation for whatever reason. O-Stone handles basically everything else, and Ratchet Bomb was a nod to the idiot swarms and Chalice of the Void on one. Silent Arbiter interests me though, as it's potentially another way to help make sure Karn Liberated stays alive. Karn keeps coming in and out of my lists because he handles permanents Ugin can't and can also win a game by himself. The problem is protecting him, because Ugin's impact is much more immediate.

Still, I have more testing to do. I adamantly refuse to buy cards on MTGO that I own in paper, so instead I play on Cockatrice. I will likely be streaming again tonight if anyone is interested. Sometimes people just brew the weirdest decks, though.

Glad you enjoyed it!

The deck is actually very affordable on MTGO. Without Explorations and Traps, I think my 75 is now only about 250 tix. I played on Cockatrice for years, and -- for all MTGO's many, many faults -- buying the deck on it has been a great investment. Between the client's internal rules enforcement (especially passing priority and visually representing the stack) and the increased competitiveness, it's helped me improve tremendously as a player.

[Corazu]

Glad you enjoyed it!

The deck is actually very affordable on MTGO. Without Explorations and Traps, I think my 75 is now only about 250 tix. I played on Cockatrice for years, and -- for all MTGO's many, many faults -- buying the deck on it has been a great investment. Between the client's internal rules enforcement (especially passing priority and visually representing the stack) and the increased competitiveness, it's helped me improve tremendously as a player.

I play UG in paper, and I've actually been considering getting the monogreen online so I can test it out and start to try and build value to buy up into the UG version online so I can get more testing in. I used to have it years ago but I sold all my MTGO stuff a few years ago since I wasn't playing it much and needed the money (plus MTGO was heading into dark times...now it looks like they're starting to get things fixed, especially with legacy leagues actually being viable...legacy events back when I had the deck were sparse...wasn't worth it)

[cherson]

The video is just awesome

[Barook]

Replay of one of the most awesome games I've played in a long time:
http://youtu.be/COdPVWeWS1Q
Why didn't your opponent let his World Breaker die to Tabernacle and then recycle + recast it on the same turn, nuking your Cloudposts? Seems like a major oversight on his part, especially since he had mana to keep his Endbringer alive, too.

Edit: Pithing Needle might have stopped you from being dead on board, but I don't think your position was favorable. He could have pinged you to 1 where you could either Needle World Breaker recursion or Endbringer to prevent you from dying.

[mykatdied]

Well... that was brutal to watch in a good way.

[MechTactical]

Glad you enjoyed it!

The deck is actually very affordable on MTGO. Without Explorations and Traps, I think my 75 is now only about 250 tix. I played on Cockatrice for years, and -- for all MTGO's many, many faults -- buying the deck on it has been a great investment. Between the client's internal rules enforcement (especially passing priority and visually representing the stack) and the increased competitiveness, it's helped me improve tremendously as a player.

Nice clip Booze, fun times...

I don't know why you guys dislike xMage? It has its bugs granted, but most of the time it's more than playable. I'm also one of those "red bastards" who refuses to pay for online "cards"...

Anyhow I’ve been playing with a monoG crucible / exploration build. I'm having much fun with it and my W/L ratio isn't all that bad, compared to my standard U/G list. Booze didn't you run a crucible list back in the old days? can you give me some pointers or a reference list?

The main conclusion is that with crucible the down side of exploration is reduced, as you often want to draw it mid – late game. Furthermore 2 explorations can be desirable as well, depending on the situation: 2 explores + crucible + 1 fetch give you 4 green mana in one turn… wasteland can lock your opponent out, glacial chasm can be played indefinitely, Horizon Canopy can draw a shit load of cards etc. WW also fits in the build very nicely, it helps protect your GY from the DRS menace along with everything else it does. The new eldrazi enable your GY to stay put and take full advantage of crucible. I don’t know, if such a build is feasible for competitive play, but I’ve been beating decks to beat with it regularly. Maybe a refined list could have some potential?

After running this list I really like 4x top + 4x AS in the deck, finds anything you’d like. I’ve been looking at 8 + cards when finding answers, usually more with the recurring fetch lands. Basically I always find what I’m looking for… Additionally it makes you less depended on eye and makes ugin / karn / SB colorless cards much better.

EDIT: here's my current list 4 reference:

Land (27)
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
6x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Vesuva
2x Wasteland

Creature (8)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1x Platinum Emperion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Artifact (8)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Instant (8)
4x Crop Rotation
4x Warping Wail

Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sorcery (4)
4x Ancient Stirrings

Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration

Sideboard (15)
3x Krosan Grip
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Silent Arbiter
3x Sphere of Resistance
4x Surgical Extraction
1x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

[maCHOOga]

Replay of one of the most awesome games I've played in a long time:
http://youtu.be/COdPVWeWS1Q


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That was phenomenal! The only thing that is missing is either some commentary or some Ulamog chewing noises.

Is that at 1x speed, if so, how the heck do you click so fast?


I play UG in paper, and I've actually been considering getting the monogreen online so I can test it out and start to try and build value to buy up into the UG version online so I can get more testing in. I used to have it years ago but I sold all my MTGO stuff a few years ago since I wasn't playing it much and needed the money (plus MTGO was heading into dark times...now it looks like they're starting to get things fixed, especially with legacy leagues actually being viable...legacy events back when I had the deck were sparse...wasn't worth it)

I'm in the same boat as you are. I have UG foiled in paper and this year's goal is to break into magic online. I bought in to mtgo with standard ramp (since there is overlap) which I seem to always go 3-2 in the leagues for a net zero profit or loss. From what I've seen, it's a phenomenal way to practice.

I suspect that show and tell will be in eternal masters, which releases in June. Likewise, the existence of modern hinges on the reprinting of zendikar fetches. They are coming back, it's just a matter of when. Maybe it's worth waiting and starting with Mono Green.

[Corazu]

That was phenomenal! The only thing that is missing is either some commentary or some chewing noises.

Is that at 1x speed, if so, how the heck do you click so fast?



I'm in the same boat as you are. I have UG foiled in paper and this year's goal is to break into magic online. I bought in to mtgo with standard ramp (since there is overlap) which I seem to always go 3-2 in the leagues for a net zero profit or loss. From what I've seen, it's a phenomenal way to practice.

I suspect that show and tell will be in eternal masters, which releases in June. Likewise, the existence of modern hinges on the reprinting of zendikar fetches. They are coming back, it's just a matter of when. Maybe it's worth waiting and starting with Mono Green.

Playing some EMA online when it releases might be the good gate for me to get back in. I also had a foiled out UG 12 post deck but I flipped it to cover real life expenses in a period where I wasn't playing very much (was totally worth). My buddy ended up throwing the deck together last year and now I just use it :)

[TheBoozeCube]

Anyhow I’ve been playing with a monoG crucible / exploration build. I'm having much fun with it and my W/L ratio isn't all that bad, compared to my standard U/G list. Booze didn't you run a crucible list back in the old days? can you give me some pointers or a reference list?

I don't have a list handy, but you might be able to find one if you search through the old thread when this was still in the developing decks subforum. Offhand, I'd say it would most likely have been posted during 2011-12. When I ran it, I don't think I had all of my Candles yet and was also facing a very Lands-heavy local meta.

As you've noticed, the main value of Crucible to my list was threefold:
1) Mitigating the harm from opposing Wastelands
2) Getting extra value from Crop Rotation
3) Recurring Wasteland to lock opponents.
I never tried Horizon Canopy, but that seems a very reasonable addition.

As I recall, I cut Wasteland before I cut Crucible. Wasteland was very high variance, as its value was very much dependent on the matchup. And while the same is true of other utility lands like Bog and Tabernacle, I didn't find that Wasteland got me the same sort of blowouts in the matchups where it was good (unless I also had both Crucible and Exploration in play). Most of the time, it just felt like a suboptimal land drop.

I later cut Crucible for lack of room. I initially moved them to the board, then cut them entirely. They were frequently dead cards unless your opponent had Wasteland, so I decided it was better to add more maindeck Pithing Needles to address the issue proactively. I eventually cut them from the board to make room for more combo hate. Horizon Canopy would certainly keep Crucible from being a dead card as often, but I still don't know if that's enough to be worth it.

If you're set on going the land-recursion route, I think you're on the right path. You might want to search this thread for a list I posted shortly after DTK came out for a Lands/Post hybrid (it's hard to search on my phone). The basic idea was to give up Eldrazi, which would keep your graveyard intact and allow you to use Loam/Crucible to recur Ugin and big artifact creatures with Haven of the Spirit Dragon and Academy Ruins. It's a VERY rough list, but it might give you some ideas to develop further.


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