[Deck] 12 Post

[Postman]

I've been silent for a loooong time now, but still playing and loving this deck! Met Loxmatii @BOM Straßbourg, great guy and player! This is the list I'm playing for some time now, with some success as well:wink: :


25 Lands:

4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Vesuva
4 Tropical Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog

6 Creatures:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Primeval Titan

29 Spells:


2 Perilous Vault
2 Song of the Dryads
2 Grapple with the Past
2 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
3 Crop Rotation
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Selvala's Stampede
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

15 Sideboard:
2 Swan Song
4 Flusterstorm
3 Krosan Grip
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Wasteland

Selvala's Stampede is my flex-slot. Will cut this card, but not sure what to put in this slot. Maybe Shifty Doppelganger again? No Repeals, no Warping Wails for me atm. Repeal can be funny, but doesn't do enough in certain MUs. Warping Wail is similar, can be great, can be almost useless. I really like the Songs! They are great on the own, and insane with Vesuva. THX Rock Lee:wink: Even used one to turn a Dark Depth into a Forest against Lands... Perilous Vault is a nice sweeper, decay-proof and can stick on the board to slow opponents down. Won me several games. Grapple with the Past was a nice idea of Leshrac82, if I remember correct? Very useful EOT - tool to recover 1-off lands, countered/discarded Titans and / or see 3 new cards with SDT. 1-off Wasteland in the Sideboard looks weird, I know. Used to be a meta-call against Omni-Tell after losing to Boseju with 2-3 counters in hand, but it really helps against Infect, Lands etc. as well. Maybe I will have to cut the 2 Swan Songs without Repeal, because an early swan can cause big trouble (like 12 damage!). Not sure, what counter spell I will take, any suggestions?

[TheBoozeCube]

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[moseby]

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As far as trinket mage I like 1 when when I played UG as it basically gives you a second copy of whatever you need; top, needle, candle, expo map, explosives et la. It lets you run a tool box of whatever you want. One issue I found is BUg brings in null rod which is already a bad matchup. That being said I think pro's definitely outweigh con's. That being said it depends the room you have, and want to commit, also I am running the post fit (nicfit version) so I might not give an appropriate response for today's meta. I normally only had 1 candle, but others may run more.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is my current U/G List. If you're not running selvala's stampede then 1 trinket mage is pretty good. I like force of will in the sideboard a lot but you might want a few more blue cards then what I'm running. Condescend isn't a terrible maindeck option, it catches a lot of people off guard and it's nice to have a permanent answer to things like creatures. Now that green has a sort of mini-eureka/show and tell in stampede I'm actually considering trying R/G with Kozilek's return and either sneak attack or stronghold gambit in the sideboard.

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
3 Show and Tell
3 Repeal
3 Selvala's Stampede
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Moment's Peace

[quantumactivist]

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I play 1 candle to make room for Omni's (respect to rocklee for suggesting!). I feel the strength of adding blue is in snt and Omni's really maximize them. Force of Will doesn't have enough blue cards to support it I've found, even when I've really tried to get up the numbers. I prefer Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm as they're consistently solid. A lot of people like fow in the sb but I think the slots are better used for the delver matchups. so many times I've been holding up 1 or 2 hate cards and storm duress's you, therapies you, then you die, so I conceded a few sb slots for this bad matchup. If there's a lot of storm/belcher/random t1 combos, I could definitely see it. Trickbind is a nice addition from blue, it fills a similar role to needle except it has nice corner cases where its really good.

I've had great success with Cyclonic Rift over Repeal as Repeal feels too mana intensive. it's nice with tops/candles but I'd rather be able to bounce a Gbrand or something large for cheap. if I'm getting wasted all the time it can be hard to repeal a 3-drop and still hold mana for top activations and crop rotation. plus it's better against chalice x1. plus you get the edh style blowouts against fair decks when you hit 7 mana. definitely considering going to 2.

Omni's are really sweet....they speed up your clock by like a turn and give you INSANE nut draws. the Boseiju in the sb helps the snts resolve against blue decks and we're very good at closing the game once we've got Omni in play. it usually only takes a turn where snt->titan takes several turns. they can be clunky but they're great material to board out g2. they've given me several outs in recent games where I probably would've gotten PoP'd or Lage'd out of the game if I wasn't able to drop an eldrazi cast trigger off snt or tutor eye->cast emmy in one turn.


I've been meaning to seriously test your mono-g list but I have a hard time getting away from snt. this list has done me well at several tourneys already am I'm still a newb.


here's a little different list if you want to try playing omni's.

2 Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
2 Omniscience

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map

4 Crop Rotation
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Trickbind
1 Warping Wail

SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Nephalia Academy
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 1 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives

[Postman]

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didn't like Trinket Mage. 3 Mana to get me an artifact, and I still have to pay it's mana, too? Way too expensive and slow imo

[MechTactical]

I didn't like Trinket Mage. 3 Mana to get me an artifact, and I still have to pay it's mana, too? Way too expensive and slow imo

Hm.. i tend to disagree. Currently i'm tackling a list with 2 mages MB. it gets easier when u run 1-2 tombs. mage definitely isn't a power house on its own, but it does help to overcome many weaknesses. i guess it depends on the build and style of play. i won many games with mage fetching the right tool at the right time. Its also a creature (can block or get sacked instead of your big guys...). it's also nice when the opponent has to force your second rate card :tongue:

[Cyborg]

I was running a 1 of Mage main board for the longest time but have moved away to it due to moving away from the artifact toolbox it felt like I was diluting my plan too much in the UG version. Also Omniscience is something like a 4% hit on t2 t3 with your current list which IMO isn't worth it. If you top deck it late game as well it feels like a pretty crap card to draw. The SNT into Prime Time is something like 8-11% t2-t3 with my list. My plan now consists of hitting a snt into titans more consistently. As well as disrupting hands with TKS.

Current list is something like this:

3 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva


1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 World Breaker

2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
1 Repeal
4 Show and Tell

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Expedition Map
3 Sensei's Divining Top

SB: 1 Emrakul, the Promised end
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Moment's Peace
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Swan Song

[TheBoozeCube]

How important is Cavern to UG builds? How often do you actually tutor for it?

(I've never really cared about countermagic too much with Cg, since my only creatures are Eldrazi. Besides S&T, it's the only major UG card I don't have already.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr. Froggy]

In G/r I run one Cavern because it really does help.

[Cyborg]

To be honest it's one of the base toolbox lands that I wouldn't consider messing with. Those lands being:
Bojuka Bog for recurring wasteland decks and graveyard matters decks.
Cavern of Souls not for fetching out early with your land tutors cause the decks you're playing against that you need it for will happily counter a crop rotation and laugh as you 2 for 1 yourself. But for that nice draw or late game tutor where you can have an uncounterable prime time or fatty resolve to secure you the win.
Eye of Ugin because it lets you grab fatties out of your deck
Glacial Chasm because it lets you cheese a few extra turns out in the face of certain death. (Fuck you death rite shaman and your loss of life crap)
Karakas because infinite loop as well as being able to combat sns/reanimator type decks
Vesuva/s good against blood moon effects as well as giving us extra locus copies or more bojuka bogs main board.

In the current meta I think that Cavern is a good include to evade countermagic to resolve a prime time. Now the reason why you don't run more than one is because you actually need the colored mana for other things in the deck as well as an already tight mana base.

[MechTactical]

How important is Cavern to UG builds? How often do you actually tutor for it?

(I've never really cared about countermagic too much with Cg, since my only creatures are Eldrazi. Besides S&T, it's the only major UG card I don't have already.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If u r running map u should include it. In builds without map (crop only) i didnt tutor 4 it yet (except 1 corner case very late in the game, when i could afford crop to get countered and wanted to 100% sure ...), though, it does randomly save yo ass when u need it and find it via sdt / brainstorm... Does some color fixing as well, which can be a factor in UG. Helps alot in trinket builds.

[Slayer89]

I'm rather new to this deck, but Tuesday I'll be playing in a small event with the following list (most likely)


Creature [9]
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Planeswalker [2]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Spell [24]
1 All Is Dust
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
2 Expedition Map
3 Explore
2 Grapple with the Past
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Moment's Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Land [25]
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
9 Forest
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Vesuva

SIDEBOARD [15]
3 Elephant Grass
2 Nature's Claim
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Warping Wail

The courser should be a oracle, but I didn't realize that I didn't have one until too late. The sideboard is a bit of a throw together of hate cards and items from the original 60 that got cut along the way. Now. granted I won't have much of a card pool available to get new pieces before the event, any suggestions?

[mykatdied]

I'm rather new to this deck, but Tuesday I'll be playing in a small event with the following list (most likely)


Creature [9]
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Planeswalker [2]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Spell [24]
1 All Is Dust
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
2 Expedition Map
3 Explore
2 Grapple with the Past
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Moment's Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Land [25]
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
9 Forest
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Vesuva

SIDEBOARD [15]
3 Elephant Grass
2 Nature's Claim
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Warping Wail

The courser should be a oracle, but I didn't realize that I didn't have one until too late. The sideboard is a bit of a throw together of hate cards and items from the original 60 that got cut along the way. Now. granted I won't have much of a card pool available to get new pieces before the event, any suggestions?

Seems mostly fine. If you have the full set of Vesuva I would stick with that over stage. The entering triggers of lands like bog and Glimmerpost are better to have available if you can get the Vesuvas.

Courser is likely ok to replace for Oracle. You don't get the extra lands, but life gain and a bigger butt are useful against aggro.

If you have emrakul, the Promised End it is actually really good. I would suggest finding room for it.

[Mr. Froggy]

I'm rather new to this deck, but Tuesday I'll be playing in a small event with the following list (most likely)


Creature [9]
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Planeswalker [2]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Spell [24]
1 All Is Dust
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
2 Expedition Map
3 Explore
2 Grapple with the Past
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Moment's Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Land [25]
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
9 Forest
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Vesuva

SIDEBOARD [15]
3 Elephant Grass
2 Nature's Claim
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Warping Wail

The courser should be a oracle, but I didn't realize that I didn't have one until too late. The sideboard is a bit of a throw together of hate cards and items from the original 60 that got cut along the way. Now. granted I won't have much of a card pool available to get new pieces before the event, any suggestions?

How's Grapple?

[Saab93]

Went 3-0-1 this week playing bant post.

R1: Shardless BUG, Win 2-0
Notes-
Game 1:
Newer player I think, vocally sized me up as a Miracles player for some reason before the match even began. Played into his train of thought with island + sensei's divining top turn 1. Turn 2 cloudpost and pass definitely caught him off guard. Swords to plowshare'd his first goyf, eventually terminus'd his shardless agent, baleful strix, and deathrite. Show and tell a primeval titan after cleaning up the board, proceed to win.

Game 2:
He mulligans to six, anemic beats with baleful strix while waiting for visions to pop. I cast terminus, then follow up with hard casting primeval titan next turn. Maelstrom pulse sends the titan to the bin, but he has no removal for the second titan I retrieve via green sun's zenith.

Sideboarding-

-2 Show and Tell

+2 Rest in Peace

R2: Eldrazi and Taxes, Win 2-1

Notes-
Game 1:
Get blown out turn three when I cast show and tell; I put in Ulamog, he puts in Palace Jailer.
Get blown out again on my last turn before lethal when he casts containment priest in response to my green sun's zenith.

Game 2:
Turn one and turn two consist of me playing cloudpost and him wastelanding said cloudpost. I kept a fairly land heavy hand and he doesn't really have much pressure, so I eventually cast primeval titan.

Game 3:
He gets out eldrazi displacer and jitte for some beats. Pops his seal of cleansing in response to a fetchland to force me to shuffle my divining top away.
Critical turn- I almost green sun for titan, think better of it with his mana open for a possible containment priest ambush. Instead I cast sakura tribe elder, which immediately grabs a forest due to his activation of jitte on it. This sets me up for the next turn to have enough mana to cast engineered explosives set to 2, then cast green sun's zenith with a cloudpost untapped to potentially activate the engineered explosives. He tanks for awhile and I start to think of possible ways I might get blown out again haha. Green sun's zenith resolves, game is quickly wrapped up. Turns out he had warping wail to counter the green sun's zenith but not the colorless mana to cast it.

Sideboarding-


-4 Show and Tell
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Reclamation Sage
+2 Krosan Grip


R3: RUG delver, Win 2-0
Notes-
Game 1:
Swords to plowshare and terminus keep the pressure to a manageable level. Veteran explorer chump blocks a goyf and ramps me into two basic forests. Eventually resolve primeval titan and win.

Game 2:
Sensei's divining top eats a spell pierce, which I'm pretty happy about. Delay casting show and tell until turn four to play around daze, forcing him to pitch his daze to force of will, again pretty happy about it. Turn five cast show and tell again, he drops in delver while I drop in new Kozilek with a divining top and sylvan library in hand. I counter his brainstorm on his turn, he swings in with two flipped delvers. I swing in with Kozilek a second time for lethal and he casts price of progress, which I counter.

Sideboarding-
Did not sideboard. I considered bringing counter magic for price of progress, but I honestly could not figure out what to take out. Game one felt so good I didn't want to dilute the primary game plan at all. If I had dropped in primeval titan I would have lost to his price of progress in hand, however. So even though I won the match without sideboarding, I don't think it was correct to do so. Next time I'll probably do:


-1 Show and Tell
-1 Green sun's zenith
-1 Something else? Honestly not sure. Probably Dryad Arbor because he sucks.
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Swan Song
+1 Blue Elemental Blast


R4: Infect, Intentionally Draw
Notes-
He offers to draw, I quickly agree since this match up seems so lopsided in his favor lol. We still play for fun though.

Game 1:
Keep hand that can show and tell Emrakul on turn three, which he dazes and follows up with invigorate + berserk.

Game 2:
Ethersworn canonist and meddling mage naming invigorate hold down the fort for awhile. I attack into his blighted agent with the two hatebears. Crop rotation for pendelhaven takes out meddling mage. He swings back and invigorates his blighted agent. I no longer value ethersworn canonist very highly, decide to draw with top and terminus the board. On my turn I recast top and pass the turn. He animates inkmoth nexus, attacks, and pumps it with vines. I draw with top again, and kill it with krosan grip. On my turn I show and tell primeval titan and he concedes.

Game 3:
This game involved a lot of maneuvering which I enjoyed immensely. He forces my veteran explorer, I go into the tank about flusterstorming it but decide against it. I delay casting show and tell until the next turn when I can protect it with flusterstorm, but end up using it to counter his invigorate. At this point I'm at seven infect counters. My show and tell resolves, I drop in primeval titan. I grab cloudpost and eye of ugin, and hope that primeval titan blocking can be enough to survive until my next turn. On his turn he ends up drawing into submerge with sylvan library. Womp womp.

Sideboarding-


-1 Dryad arbor
-1 Sakura tribe elder
-1 Sylvan library
-4 Green sun's zenith (Seems too slow, not enough time grab prime time)
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Swan Song
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Ethersworn canonist
+1 Meddling mage
+2 Krosan grip


Overall:
Decklist is similar to the one posted here (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20819&iddeck=159171), with the following changes-
Mainboard:


-1 Platinum Emperion
+1 New Kozilek


Sideboard:


2 Rest in peace
1 Surgical extraction
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Meddling mage
1 Ethersworn canonist
1 Gaddock teeg
1 Reclamation sage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Swan song
1 Blue elemental blast
2 Krosan grip
1 Engineered explosives
1 Chill


Considering adding Melira to the sideboard for weekly events if I know someone is playing infect. Probably overkill though. Personally, the bant and G/w versions have been performing better for me than the U/G version. Impressed how well the bant mana base performs.

[Ehhh]

It's pretty bad. I have a guy at my LGS who likes to troll with it. Generally, game 1 is absolutely awful unless you nut draw or know what you're playing and get down an early Needle for Cavern Harpy. After that, Grip can do a lot of work since they can't respond to it. The last thing to remember, that people seem to often forget, is that Aluren is symmetrical. This usually won't matter, but if you're running something like Ethersworn Canonist out of the board, you might have an opportunity to interrupt them.

yeah my list also plays Leyline of Sanctity which helps buy time to setup for Needle / Ethersworn / Grip interactions.. matchup isn't as terrible when you have ways to stall them from comboing off.

[mykatdied]

I've also found sphere of resistance to be fine in buying time against aluren. At the very least it stalls then from killing a few turns until you can get emrakul online

[Ehhh]

Always get Glacial Chasm off a Primeval Titan trigger so they can't just Price you to death. Maze and Fog effects can hold back idiots in the mean time.

The key is to eliminate early pressure via Delver / Swiftspear if possible with Wail or Swords (Using that now) with sideboard support to stabilize against PoP via CoP: Red - also Crop into Glacial Chasm or Prime Time like you said.

[Ehhh]

I plan to stream my Post deck all of Sunday (09/25/16) when I wake up [10AMpst] until I fall asleep if you guys want to talk about some post ideas.
Stream : Twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh

Current List

3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Pithing Needle
2 Moat
4 Primeval Titan
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Warping Wail
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Crop Rotation
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Glacial Chasm


1 Dawnstrider
2 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Rest in Peace

[k_omega]

Last weekend I barely missed top 16 at a Black Lotus tournament, and with real-life concerns now out of the way I'm putting up my report for posterity. I played mono-G with no splash and maindeck TKS:

4 Primeval Titan
2 TKS
1 Old Emrakul, New Emrakul, New Ulamog
2 Ugin

4 Crop Rotation, Top
3 Map, Needle, Ancient Stirrings, Warping Wail
1 Candelabra, Moment's Peace

5 Forest
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost
3 Windswept Heath
2 Vesuva, Cavern of Souls
1 Stage, Khalni Garden, Karakas, Bog, Chasm, Eye, Tabernacle

SB:
4 Leyline of Sanctity (the "splash", though basically uncastable)
3 Krosan Grip, Surgical
2 Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance
1 Pithing Needle

This build is the current evolutionary stage in my testing of Gw builds. I started testing with Machooga's 2x Ancient Tomb build and was disappointed with that card, but impressed by TKS. Being the proverbial ounce of prevention while clogging the ground was a huge deal, and I incorporated it into the Ancient Stirrings version that I have been playing for most of this year. I think 2-3 is the right number of copies and originally wanted to play 3, but decided instead to maindeck a Moment's Peace in view of the other eldrazi deck (lowercase 'e' for them) and Infect.

4c Loam has been growing in popularity in my area, and the Lands decks are starting to board Chalices instead of Spheres as their combo hate so I was worried about this build's vulnerability to Chalice at 1. In the past I have boarded Sacred Ground to fight these Wasteland-recursion decks, which effectively dodges Chalice but requires white mana. Since April I have been using Surgical Extraction instead, to have a bit more early interaction against some varieties of combo and (though I hate to say it) to counter opposing Surgicals. For this tournament I decided to double-down on Surgical over Sacred Ground because 1) the D&T decks seem to be moving away from Cataclysm and Miracles seems to have moved away from Ruination to fight Eldrazi, and 2) apparently 4 maindeck Ghost Quarters in Lands is a reasonable option now, and I got demolished by them at a FNM. I decided that Needles alone would be insufficient to hold off Wasteland + Ghost Quarter + Stage for long enough, so Surgical it was.

On to the matches:

Round 1: Esper Stoneblade
I thought this deck had pretty much gone extinct, but I was very happy to see 3 Esper lands not be followed by a Mentor. He never found Wasteland, only found 1 Force (spent on a TKS I think), and therefore lost both games. Ulamog wiped the floor with Tar Pit + Clique.

Round 2: Burn
I had built a burn deck on XMage the day before and played about 20 games against the deck with it, but didn't come up with much knowledge both new and actionable. In game 1 I kept a 7-card hand that would have been fine against a fair deck but was in no way equipped to beat burn. In comes the sideboard hate:

-3 Needle, -3 Wail, -1 Old Emrakul, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Bog, -1 Moment's Peace
+4 Leyline, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Grip

I Leyline him in Game 2 which completely blanks his hand except for a Price which TKS takes, preventing much grief. I play Trinisphere, he plays 2 Ensnaring Bridges and Fireblasts the TKS, giving me time to Eye->Ulamog more Mountains -> Karakas Ulamog to take out the Bridges. A very satisfying thrashing. No sideboard changes.

I keep 7 cards with 2 Leylines in game 3, but this time they do not line up well against his hand. He plays a T2 Eidolon, and since my hand is full of cheap spells I float G from a forest and Chasm it away before casting Stirrings, which reveals a Cloudpost. The early chasm + Glimmerposts buys enough time for me to Ugin away 2 Sulfuric Vortices, and I pass the turn with Ugin at 1, him on no cards in hand, and me at 6 life about to rain Titans. Naturally he topdecks Price.

In the past I have been critical of Leyline against Burn, arguing that its being a dead draw is a serious drawback and that it compels you to keep awkward hands in a matchup that basically tests the quality of your draw. Obviously I have changed my mind somewhat, though it helps that my Leyline hands were pretty good beyond the Leyline. I still think that the ultimate plan should be Sphere + Ulamogging their lands to prevent Price while allowing you to attack for the win, but that is hard to consistently pull off. I'm not sure that 4 Leylines is the right number, as I would have preferred the second one to be any other card, but I have nowhere near enough testing yet to decide.

Also in the category of insufficient testing is the merit of Sphere of Resistance. I have a 2-2 split on Sphere effects because Resistance helps against Elves and Food Chain where 3Sphere does very little or is too slow, however Resistance also delays my top end which has been a real nuisance against Burn specifically. Since they don't need to cast all their spells in one turn a la Storm, adding an additional mana is much less obstructive and they can often cast 2 spells in a turn. However, delaying Primeval Titan by a turn can be a huge setback. I'm currently unsure what to do.

I regret not being able to Promised End him into burning himself. Note that this conflicts with the Sphere-Ulamog plan, as having a Sphere restricts how much you can hurt them.

Round 3: Lands
The same player whose Ghost Quarters defeated me at FNM. I had the maindeck Bog in my opening 7 in game one, managed to snipe the one Loam and his one Wasteland wasn't enough to stop Primeval Titan (fetching Vesuva for Bog) from taking over the game.

-1 Tabernacle, -2 TKS, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Chasm, -1 Ugin
+2 Grip, +3 Surgical, +1 Needle

I'm unsure whether Chasm is worth keeping in this matchup so I've been experimenting with taking it out. I kept in 1 Ugin to fight the expected Tireless Trackers. I keep 6 with Needle, Titan, and 4 Lands. He has Loam and sticks Chalice the turn after I needle Wasteland, but has no land destruction. He goes for an early kill but waits to make the token until my end step, before which I play my own stage to preempt his. The stage standoff buys time for me to deploy a Cloudpost, then EOT copy it with stage to enable Primeval Titan, which gains enough life to invalidate Marit Lage. Eye -> Ulamog on Marit Lage + Stage prompts a concession.

Not the best draws from the Lands player, and he seemed to think that Rest in Peace would be more troublesome out of my deck than Surgical. I am not so sure.

Round 4: D&T
This was a friend of mine, and we know what each other plays. I needle Wasteland in game 1 and he is unable to kill me before Ugin cleans up.

-1 Map, -1 Bog
+1 Needle, +1 Grip

I acquired my Tabernacle only recently and haven't quite decided when to board it out. I started cutting it against D&T since they are fully capable of winning with 1 creature + equipment, but decided to keep it in this time for experimentation purposes. In game 2 he has Flickerwisp for Needle + double Wasteland, which sets me too far behind to cast anything of consequence. Game 3 is very close with Moment's Peace buying critical turns against Crusader + SoFaI to set up Candelabra + lots of Cloudposts. I misplay here because I Map for Eye of Ugin with intention of searching up Emrakul, but forgot that a new Thalia was in play. I had foolishly used the Candelabra already to make all the mana at once, and had to hope to make it one more turn to play Eye and untap it. I manage to do so, and take the match.

Although it seems obvious, I think it is worth mentioning that new Thalia makes Candelabra considerably more important. I'm not sure the deck really needs another copy, but while I was on the fence about it before I am now sure it should stay.

Round 5: BURG Delver (Ben Friedman)
I derived an irrational satisfaction from playing against a big-name opponent, further amplified by his comment about not knowing how to sideboard against me. He spurned my advice to take out Wasteland. Clearly a real pro, to not fall for that! In game 1 he deploys Delvers on turns 1,2,3 with the first being blind-flipped, the second getting Wailed away, and the third flipping post-Ponder. A timely Decay takes out Needle, then Wasteland sets me too far from Titan to do anything but flounder.

-1 Bog, -1 Candelabra, -1 Stirrings
+2 Trinisphere, +1 Needle

I wasn't sure whether he was playing with Pyromancers, so I left in TKS as a blocker. Ordinarily I would have done -1 Bog +1 Needle but I have wanted to experiment with Trinisphere against Delver decks and this was an opportunity to try. I wasn't sure whether to cut the new Emrakul, but I cut Stirrings to leave myself the option of Promised End + Tabernacle in case of my opponent going wide. That may have been wrong.

Anyway, in game 2 I do resolve a Trinisphere but only after another T1 blind-flipped delver (off a spell pierce, no less, which delayed the Sphere considerably). I find no needle, he finds one Wasteland, and I die to the accursed Delver.

It is games like this that have had me acquiring the pieces for U/G Show and Tell builds over the past few months. I think I will switch to that for a while, the only question is whether it will be before or after EE5 and the SCG Baltimore Open in the coming months.

Round 6: D&T
I recognize this person as a local D&T expert and keep my opening 7 on the assumption that he's playing the same deck. Unfortunately I wind up one mana short of Ugin-ing away the board before I die to a very well-charged Jitte.

-1 Map, -1 Bog, -1 Tabernacle
+1 Needle, +2 Grip

I think this matchup is good enough that Tabernacle is worse than a Krosan Grip to blow up some random hate permanent, or just a pesky sword. In this second game I have to fight through a chain of Recruiters that find Flickerwisps, but since I have two needles on Wasteland the best he can do is to temporarily deprive me of some Cloudposts. A TKS forces an awkward use of Flickerwisp, and Warping Wail proves its worth by exiling the Flickerwisp force. Eventually Ugin resolves, and enough was said. No sideboarding changes.

I am on the draw now, and my opponent leads on Plains + Vial. I decide to wait on deploying my opening Needle and just play Forest + Top. When his second turn is Port + Vial, I decide to put the needle on Vial - forcing him to use the port for mana instead of disruption. He doesn't find a second white source until I've developed a commanding advantage, and although I have to dance around an active Wasteland he is unable to deploy serious pressure. Ugin + Ulamog on the same turn seals it.

Sometimes I can't believe that I used to fear this matchup.

Round 7 (final round): eldrazi
I haven't had enough experience playing against this deck, but I have seen enough to know that they play Chalice and can't consistently find Wastelands. In game one he Thought-Knots away my Thought-Knot, foolishly leaving my Moment's Peace in hand. Since I have shut down his Wastelands, that card buys the time I need for Primeval Titan to get Chasm + Eye, and from there The Aeons Torn tears through my opponent. The only opposition at this point was an Endbringer that could have stopped Emrakul from attacking indefinitely but my opponent did not activate it in response to my second Needle.

-1 Bog, -3 Wail
+3 Grip, +1 Needle

The plan is: kill Chalice, stop Wasteland, don't die, win. Unfortunately, my unfamiliarity with the matchup misdirects me away from #2 as a Turn 1 Leyline of the Void prompts me to put my Needle on Helm of Obedience instead of Wasteland. Since his only pressure is a couple of Mimics (and Chalice) and he has active Wastelands, I decide to play mana-lands instead of playing Chasm. Naturally a Reality Smasher comes off the top and I die. No sideboard changes.

Being on the play, I play T1 Top and T2 spin + Stirrings for Map before his T2 Chalice. His Thought-Knots see my hand full of lands and a Map, and though I am floating a Primeval Titan on top I do not find the sixth mana source on the critical turn. I lose ignominiously.

I think I was overly concerned about Helm, seeing as I could draw Grips to answer it but no other effective answer to Wasteland in view of the Chalice. This matchup and Burn both leave me really wanting to play Explore, though I think Moment's Peace is the better card outside of the Burn matchup.

Thoughts going forward
1) I was not that impressed by TKS, in contrast to earlier testing. I like having it as disruption against combo that doubles as a clock and is searchable via Eye, but a second Moment's Peace makes the combat matchups much easier and I was always happy to draw that card.
-1 TKS, +1 Moment's Peace

2) I never needed to cast Surgical Extraction, so the jury is still out on that card. I do not like this build's vulnerability to Chalice, and the fact that the recurring-Wasteland decks are moving to that card has me very concerned. If the situation continues, I might replace Stirrings with something else (Explore or GSZ, probably).

3) Delver is still hard. I've considered playing Maze of Ith, but the investment of one land drop does not seem to be repaid as well as I'd like. This would be a reason to run Explore, to lessen the impact of playing manaless lands.


Thanks for reading, and I welcome your thoughts.

[ESG]

I acquired my Tabernacle only recently and haven't quite decided when to board it out. I started cutting it against D&T since they are fully capable of winning with 1 creature + equipment, but decided to keep it in this time for experimentation purposes.
...
Ordinarily I would have done -1 Bog +1 Needle but I have wanted to experiment with Trinisphere against Delver decks and this was an opportunity to try.

It seems pretty risky to experiment in the middle of a Lotus tournament. That's what testing is for, isn't it? You ended up doing well, but with more testing, you might have notched another win, and that could have made all the difference.

Drop of Honey and Engineered Explosives are reasonable cards vs. Delver of Secrets. Since you are on Ancient Stirrings, you might like EE better. Your list looks pretty soft to Chalice of the Void preboard, so EE would also help there. Against Burn, I like Tree of Redemption, which also gets around Sulfuric Vortex, but it doesn't look like you're playing Green Sun's Zenith.

Eldrazi is not known for Helm of Obedience. I would never not name Wasteland in that matchup.

[k_omega]

It seems pretty risky to experiment in the middle of a Lotus tournament. That's what testing is for, isn't it? You ended up doing well, but with more testing, you might have notched another win, and that could have made all the difference.
Sure, I'd rather know for certain what the right decisions are in advance. On the other hand I'm not going to deprive myself of an opportunity to learn. In my view every match is testing for future matches, regardless of the setting in which the match occurs. Admittedly, it is quite clear that in the case of eldrazi specifically some foreknowledge would have had a tangible impact. Now I have that knowledge.


Drop of Honey and Engineered Explosives are reasonable cards vs. Delver of Secrets. Since you are on Ancient Stirrings, you might like EE better. Your list looks pretty soft to Chalice of the Void preboard, so EE would also help there. Against Burn, I like Tree of Redemption, which also gets around Sulfuric Vortex, but it doesn't look like you're playing Green Sun's Zenith.
I've been considering EE for these reasons, and thanks for suggesting Drop of Honey. Tree of Redemption doesn't actually get around Vortex, as the exchange is implemented as a gain or loss of the necessary amount of life.


Eldrazi is not known for Helm of Obedience. I would never not name Wasteland in that matchup.
I was surprised to see it as well, though it makes some sense from their perspective to be able to kill without the combat step if need be and they already play Leyline for Dredge anyway. I'm not sure I'd say it's a good idea on the balance for them, but it makes sense. I agree with you now that Wasteland is the absolute priority.

[Saab93]

Placed in the top four of CardKingdom's 1K tournament with Bant post. Same list I've previously posted.

R1: Junk Blade, win 2-0
Notes-
Game 1:
Lilliana gets rid of a Show and Tell'd Ulamog, but he is unable to deal with a follow up Show and Tell'd Emrakul.

Game 2:
Opponent enlighten tutors end of my turn 1 for Chains of Mephistopheles and plays it on his turn. Due to the composition of my hand it had no impact on the game. Green Sun's Zenith eventually grabs Primeval Titan, and Emrakul annihilates.

Sideboarding:
-4 Show and Tell
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Reclamation Sage
+1 Engineered Explosives


R2: Omnishow w/ sneak attack, win 2-0
Notes-
Game 1:
Opponent Show and Tell's Omniscience without an actual win (wtf?). After the match he tells me he was hoping to draw into something with his follow up brainstorm. I put in Primeval Titan grabbing Karakas and a fetchland. Two attacks later the game is wrapped up after I exile his Omniscience and Sneak Attack with Ulamog.

Game 2:
Opponent casts Show and Tell, putting in Omniscience while I put in Primeval Titan. I respond to my Primeval Titan's trigger by Krosan Gripping his Omniscience. Gaddock Teeg meets a force of will, but Kozilek resolves drawing four cards.

Sideboarding:
-4 Show and Tell
-2 Terminus
-2 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Dryad Arbor
-1 Veteran Explorer

+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Swan Song
+1 Hydroblast
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Reclamation Sage
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Meddling Mage


R3: 4C Nic Fit, win 2-1
Notes-

Www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom

Pretty sure my notes for this match won't be as accurate as simply watching it on Twitch. So you should watch the recorded match.

Notable moments of the match though:
1.) Finding Krosan Grip for Ensnaring Bridge after Ulamog had already been countered.

2.) Finding Flusterstorm to counter his Bribery.

Sideboarding:
-4 Show and Tell
-1 Veteran Explorer
-1 Terminus
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Reclamation Sage


R4: Aluren, lose 0-2
Notes-
Awful match up and I have no idea how to improve it. Almost managed to tie the match 1-1 but the opponent got there. Thought-Knot Seer might help out in this match up.

Sideboarding:
-4 Show and Tell
-1 Veteran Explorer
-1 Dryad Arbor
-1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
-1 Terminus
-1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
-1 Green Sun's Zenith

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Reclamation Sage
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Swan Song
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Meddling Mage


R5: Death & Taxes, win 2-0
Notes:
Game 1:
Opponent chooses not to tap my only cloudpost. I play a glimmerpost and cast Kozilek. I counter his Swords to Plowshares and Stoneforge Mystic.

Game 2:
Opponent overextends into Terminus. Green Sun's Zenith into Primeval Titan. I grab Ulamog instead of Emrakul because of double port. Exile his karakas and port. Think I managed to tutor up enough cloudposts to power out an Emrakul eventually.

-4 Show and Tell
-1 Veteran Explorer
-1 Dryad Arbor

+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Reclamation Sage
+1 Engineered Explosives


R6: Intentionally Draw


Top 8: 4C Delver (Turbo Angler build), win 2-0
Notes-
Game 1:
Opponent dazes my divining top, spell pierces my sylvan library, and wastelands my Savannah. Show and Tell'd Emrakul can't be dealt with.

Game 2:
Actually had some trouble sideboarding, I didn't know what cards to cut so I just shaved some numbers. Brought in stuff to deal with Winter Orb since I lent it to him before the tournament started haha.

Swords to Plowshares on Deathrite and Gurmag Angler. Primeval Titan grabs Cloudpost and Eye of Ugin, which grabs Emrakul.

Sideboarding:
-4 Show and Tell
-1 Green Sun's Zenith
-1 Dryad Arbor
-1 Terminus
-1 ???

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Reclamation Sage
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Engineered Explosives
+2 Rest In Peace


Top 4: Aluren, lose 0-2
Notes-
Game 1:
With great calculated risk, I cast a turn three Show and Tell, I put in Primeval Titan and opponent puts in Aluren. Opponent waits until turn four to combo off.

Game 2:
Opening hand had sideboard cards to disrupt the opponent but I had issues with color screw. In hindsight I should not have kept an opening hand with plains, vesuva, and divining top.

Sideboarding:
Similar as before, except I shaved down on Terminus to make room for a Hydroblast. You really know the match up is awful when you're digging deep into the dregs of your sideboard to hopefully counter one of his four red cards haha.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ESG]

Tree of Redemption doesn't actually get around Vortex, as the exchange is implemented as a gain or loss of the necessary amount of life.

Mmm, good call. I still like the card, but I wouldn't run it outside of a GSZ build.



Placed in the top four of CardKingdom's 1K tournament with Bant post. Same list I've previously posted.
R3: 4C Nic Fit, win 2-1
Notes-

Www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom

Pretty sure my notes for this match won't be as accurate as simply watching it on Twitch. So you should watch the recorded match.

Notable moments of the match though:
1.) Finding Krosan Grip for Ensnaring Bridge after Ulamog had already been countered.

2.) Finding Flusterstorm to counter his Bribery.

This was a pretty great match. I think for Aluren you probably should use Swan Song. The card is flexible enough that you could still board it in in other matchups, and you can't run four Krosan Grip vs. a Cabal Therapy deck.

[Saab93]

This was a pretty great match. I think for Aluren you probably should use Swan Song. The card is flexible enough that you could still board it in in other matchups, and you can't run four Krosan Grip vs. a Cabal Therapy deck.

Yeah I brought in Swan Song in both Aluren matches, just didn't see the card until game two of the second match. The Hydroblast can easily be replaced for a second Swan Song, which would certainly help. Ethersworn Canonist gave the opponent the most trouble since Bone Shredder cannot kill artifact creatures. I'm not sure I'd replace any of the other hatebears with a second copy, however, since I like how they all attack combo decks in different ways.



R4: Aluren, lose 0-2
Notes-
Awful match up and I have no idea how to improve it. Almost managed to tie the match 1-1 but the opponent got there. Thought-Knot Seer might help out in this match up.

Sideboarding:
-4 Show and Tell
-1 Veteran Explorer
-1 Dryad Arbor
-1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
-1 Terminus
-1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
-1 Green Sun's Zenith

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Reclamation Sage
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Swan Song
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Meddling Mage

[TLK]

@Saab93 - I went back a few pages to see if I could find your Bant list, but no luck. Mind sharing it? Sounds pretty powerful and consistent. Luckily nobody plays Aluren in my area. :)

[Saab93]

@Saab93 - I went back a few pages to see if I could find your Bant list, but no luck. Mind sharing it? Sounds pretty powerful and consistent. Luckily nobody plays Aluren in my area. :)

Mainboard
Creatures [10]


1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


Instants [6]


2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm


Sorceries [12]


4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Show and Tell
4 Terminus


Enchantments [1]


1 Sylvan Library


Artifacts [4]


4 Sensei's Divining Top


Lands [27]


1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
3 Flooded Strand
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost


Sideboard


1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Rest In Peace
2 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Swan Song
1 Hydroblast
1 Engineered Explosives

[k_omega]

Placed in the top four of CardKingdom's 1K tournament with Bant post. Same list I've previously posted.

I see you boarded out all your Show and Tells in every matchup, even against delver which to me (admittedly a novice with S&T in this style of deck) seems like a strong motivation to play S&T. Not to sound dismissive, but when would you keep them in if ever?

[mykatdied]

Boarding out show and tell against dnt seems odd to me. Where they can restrict you on mana sources show and tell into primeval titan is probably one of the strongest plays against dnt. At least from my perspective as a dnt pilot.

[maCHOOga]

Tree of Redemption hmmmm?
That card seems pretty good against eldrazi, assuming it isn't thought knotted away.
It can block a smasher, get dismembered and still live?! I think this warrants me testing in either my flex slot or in SB. If it gets into play, most of the delver decks can't beat it either.

Regarding Sphere of Resistance, I think I'm boarding it in wayyyy too much. At this point, I think it should only be brought in for dedicated combo decks only and left in the board against Delvers (w/ wastelands) and Miracles.

Speaking of miracles, the last two times I've battled against miracles, they got me in three. Main deck back to basics...ok, you got me. :-/

[Skriger]

I see you boarded out all your Show and Tells in every matchup, even against delver which to me (admittedly a novice with S&T in this style of deck) seems like a strong motivation to play S&T. Not to sound dismissive, but when would you keep them in if ever?

I was thinking the same thing. Seems like you might as well run a shell without if you feel they aren't strong.

[Saab93]

I see you boarded out all your Show and Tells in every matchup, even against delver which to me (admittedly a novice with S&T in this style of deck) seems like a strong motivation to play S&T. Not to sound dismissive, but when would you keep them in if ever?

I could have left Show and Tell in against the 4C Delver opponent, but I generally like to shave numbers of it when I'm up against decks running heavy discard. I wasn't entirely sure of his list, so I didn't know if he was running Cabal Therapy or not.

Delver without discard is a match up in which I'd keep Show and Tell in the mainboard.


Boarding out show and tell against dnt seems odd to me. Where they can restrict you on mana sources show and tell into primeval titan is probably one of the strongest plays against dnt. At least from my perspective as a dnt pilot.

Terminus and Swords to Plowshares buy me enough time against Death and Taxes that their ability to restrict my mana sources isn't that big of an issue. I just value being able to answer their hate cards, such as Cataclysm and Winter Orb, more than quickly finishing them off with a Show and Tell. Furthermore, all 27 lands in my list either fetch for or tap for mana (except for Eye of Ugin obviously), so I'll eventually get enough land drops against them to cast Primeval Titan. You just have to be patient, since you're playing the role of the control player.

Also, Containment Priest is not as effective if Show and Tell is left in the sideboard. Obviously Containment Priest is still live against Green Sun's Zenith, but Green Sun's Zenith is a better top deck later in the game, and also has utility early on to ramp into the correct colors.


I was thinking the same thing. Seems like you might as well run a shell without if you feel they aren't strong.

I never said Show and Tell isn't a strong card...

[NorthWestDork]

Hrm... this deck looks eerily familiar. :wink: GJ on your Top 4

Edit: Just to add context, it seems this deck does fairly well in the Seattle area. Ive piloted it twice myself to strong finishes in the same Seattle Event Series.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274098&f=LE
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12500&d=272031&f=LE

And yes, my sideboard is all over the place.


Mainboard
Creatures [10]


1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


Instants [6]


2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm


Sorceries [12]


4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Show and Tell
4 Terminus


Enchantments [1]


1 Sylvan Library


Artifacts [4]


4 Sensei's Divining Top


Lands [27]


1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
3 Flooded Strand
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost


Sideboard


1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Rest In Peace
2 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Swan Song
1 Hydroblast
1 Engineered Explosives

[Saab93]

Hrm... this deck looks eerily familiar. :wink: GJ on your Top 4

Edit: Just to add context, it seems this deck does fairly well in the Seattle area. Ive piloted it twice myself to strong finishes in the same Seattle Event Series.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274098&f=LE
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12500&d=272031&f=LE

And yes, my sideboard is all over the place.

Haha yeah I mentioned pulling your list a couple pages ago. Good list [emoji1303].


Went 3-0-1 this week playing bant post.


Overall:
Decklist is similar to the one posted here (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20819&iddeck=159171), with the following changes-
Mainboard:


-1 Platinum Emperion
+1 New Kozilek


Sideboard:


2 Rest in peace
1 Surgical extraction
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Meddling mage
1 Ethersworn canonist
1 Gaddock teeg
1 Reclamation sage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Swan song
1 Blue elemental blast
2 Krosan grip
1 Engineered explosives
1 Chill






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Postman]

Just watched a few minutes of eeeeh's twitch stream, playing some kind of 12 Post / Nic Fit hybrid :-) didn't get his entire list, missing his 2 fatties. One must be Emrakul 1.0, can anyone tell me what the other one was?

Gesendet von meinem ONEPLUS A3003 mit Tapatalk

[Saab93]

Just watched a few minutes of eeeeh's twitch stream, playing some kind of 12 Post / Nic Fit hybrid :-) didn't get his entire list, missing his 2 fatties. One must be Emrakul 1.0, can anyone tell me what the other one was?

Gesendet von meinem ONEPLUS A3003 mit Tapatalk

I can't speak for the specific video, but from the recent videos I have watched, he has been playing 1 Ulamog, and then both Emrakul's. One thing I've noticed, and have disagreed with, is his boarding out of Ulamog against delver decks. On his stream he has called Ulamog too slow, which I think is completely wrong, because even if Ulamog is countered two threats are basically guaranteed to me exiled from the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Saab93]

Just to clarify I was talking about the new Ulamog.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maCHOOga]

I can't speak for the specific video, but from the recent videos I have watched, he has been playing 1 Ulamog, and then both Emrakul's. One thing I've noticed, and have disagreed with, is his boarding out of Ulamog against delver decks. On his stream he has called Ulamog too slow, which I think is completely wrong, because even if Ulamog is countered two threats are basically guaranteed to me exiled from the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What I've been doing against delver is shaving down to 1 eldrazi, since you can defeat them with usually just a primeval titan. I've been leaving in emrakul 2.0, since it's CMC is usually the worst the same as Ulamog. I've had multiple games against delver where Ulamog/Emramul 1.0 are rotting in my hand because they are wastelanding/stifling me to kingdom come.

Speaking of delver, there is a "new" grixis delver list that runs 4x stifles, in addition to spell pierces, dazes and Forces. I played against it online and it also top 8'ed yesterday's MTGO legacy monthly. Beating this build feels significantly harder than the ones from the past.

I've also been trying 1 Tireless Tracker in the GW/NicFit shell. Overall I've been impressed, provided it A. resolves and B. lives 1 turn. It serves as a great brick wall that generates card advantage.

[Ehhh]

I ended up missing top 8 last weekend with my 12 Post / Nic Fit early game build.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-october-legacy-classic-and-kaladesh-technology

I might do a youtube video just going through the games which should help out players figuring out why it is a viable build in this meta.

[MechTactical]

soo much SnT blowback these days... is it just me? :mad: what are u UG fellas running these days?

[Fatal]

@Ehhh your build is very similar to this thread - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28391-Primer-Nic-Feat-8Post/page14 I even notice your success with your build but had some questions about build chooses.

[Skriger]

soo much SnT blowback these days... is it just me? :mad: what are u UG fellas running these days?

SnT shouldn't be your main choice of wincon. I use it mainly to chase out counterspells or put pressure on them dropping additional lands and the occasional Prime Time. Think of it as another resources to ultimately get Eye of Ugin on the board and tutor out your Eldrazi. You rather have them waste their counters on a SnT than your actual creatures.
If you really want SnT to resolve, run boseiju who shelters all if you feel you getting getting blown out. This will also help feed into other spells you want to resolve. Lots of Meta has an anti SnT in the sideboard, if that is how it is for you, think about pulling them out.

[MechTactical]

SnT shouldn't be your main choice of wincon. I use it mainly to chase out counterspells or put pressure on them dropping additional lands and the occasional Prime Time. Think of it as another resources to ultimately get Eye of Ugin on the board and tutor out your Eldrazi. You rather have them waste their counters on a SnT than your actual creatures.
If you really want SnT to resolve, run boseiju who shelters all if you feel you getting getting blown out. This will also help feed into other spells you want to resolve. Lots of Meta has an anti SnT in the sideboard, if that is how it is for you, think about pulling them out.

thanks for the feedback. i agree with your comment completely.

i went 4-2 in a local (approx. 20 man) tournament. I ran a classical repeal list (without maps). I was satisfied with my win against monoR sneak, which i thought i will lose 4 sure. MoxD + repeal did some heavy lifting there. the burn match-up was turbulent involving some slaving with mindrakul and resulting in a win - funny stuff. i almost lost to miracles due to some misplays and some very fast mentors in g2 and g3, the fact that i was "mapless" didn't help. i managed to get away with a "shaky" win against a dredge variant running FoW and some kamigawa counter. i was really surprised when he forced my first crop rotation. luckily bojuka + vesuva sealed the deal eventually.

the two losses were both against eldrazi variants. i probably screwed myself with moxD in one of those games, when i missed a land drop casting it (dunno why i did that) only to get wastelanded + ratchet bombed... the build is obviously weak against the eldrazi menace. The 2 MP in the board (never saw one, except against burn - they were surprisingly useful there) were inadequate to ensure a win.

seems that i have gravely underestimated the level of the eldrazi infestation when i threw together the 75. Despite all the weaknesses of running plats (+4x SnT) it maybe the best way to go in a classical list? ugin is great but mostly useless against aggro, combo decks.

[Skriger]

the two losses were both against eldrazi variants. i probably screwed myself with moxD in one of those games, when i missed a land drop casting it (dunno why i did that) only to get wastelanded + ratchet bombed... the build is obviously weak against the eldrazi menace. The 2 MP in the board (never saw one, except against burn - they were surprisingly useful there) were inadequate to ensure a win.

seems that i have gravely underestimated the level of the eldrazi infestation when i threw together the 75. Despite all the weaknesses of running plats (+4x SnT) it maybe the best way to go in a classical list? ugin is great but mostly useless against aggro, combo decks.

Eldrazi Stompy is tough. Ugin is useless against them so I usually side him out for either Perilous Vault or something of the sort. . MY SnT version only runs 3 MB and one in Side. Aggro you need to lean towards disrupting their speed This is why I started playing the Bant version to run Terminus. Each person Meta is a little different, feel out and you will find a good version of 12 Post that works for you. My Meta is full of Miracles, Delver, and Combo. Nobody runs the eldrazi stompy (yet).
If you are dealing with lots of Aggro and Combo. Combo- Warping Wail and FoW work well against them. Aggro, if Ugin isnt working (colorless stuff) then switch a better board wipe like Perilous Vault or Terminus. Platinum Emperion is great against aggro and burn decks since it's hard to kill without Smash to Smithereens.

[maCHOOga]

So yesterday was EE#5 in Baltimore, conveniently in my backyard. I showed up to the event with a GW list I've been tuning with STP's maindeck. The tweaks I've made make me feel about 50/50 against eldrazi and delver flavors.

I ended up going 3-3-1 in the 9 round event. Here are some notes:
Round 1 - UR delver. Game 1 I die to 4x monastery swiftspears. Numbers 2-4 plus bolt + chain lightning did me in. The second game he had a price once I was forced to let my glacial chasm expire. Loss #1
Round 2 - Played against the Agro Loam pilot who won the open with the deck. Each game I was one untap from victory and each time I died to precisely a 20/20 after I exhausted my removal on Knights. Loss #2.
Round 3 - Played against Miracles, soul crushed them fast enough to get lunch. Win #1.
Round 4 -Played against Agro loam. This build didn't make 20/20s so I showed them my 15/15. Win #2.
Round 5 - Played against UR delver. This time there wasn't quad of a cards. I cautiously played around PoP, which he had in hand. Win #3.
Round 6 - Played against Death and Taxes. Game 3 I drew more lands than John Avon. Loss #3.
Round 7- Played the longest game 1 against merfolk, down to 2 life, up to 20, Surviving 4 wastelands. Ended in a draw, I needed about 2 more turns to secure game 3. I gave the win away since my opponent was out of town and had friends still battling. He was packing 2x gilded drakes in addition to phanstasmal images BARF

Takeaways:
- Agro loam seems heavily favored if they are playing dark depths.
- Fighting through Sanctum Prelate, new thalia and old thalia makes D&T a significantly harder matchup.
- If I was on UG 12post, Merfolk would have killed me. Now having islands allowed me to hold primeval titans on defense (to not die).
- Tireless tracker either drew a FoW, generated 3-9 clues or died immediately to a bolt when the 1st clue was triggered. I like the inclusion as a one of but maybe there is something better out there.

[k_omega]

So yesterday was EE#5 in Baltimore, conveniently in my backyard. I showed up to the event with a GW list I've been tuning with STP's maindeck. The tweaks I've made make me feel about 50/50 against eldrazi and delver flavors.

I'm curious what are the tweaks you made. I've been moving away from Ancient Stirrings to a GSZ-Veteran Explorer build myself in view of the increased prevalence of Chalices. Could you provide a list?


Round 2 - Played against the Aggro Loam pilot who won the open with the deck. Each game I was one untap from victory and each time I died to precisely a 20/20 after I exhausted my removal on Knights. Loss #2.
...

Takeaways:
- Aggro loam seems heavily favored if they are playing dark depths.

I know this aggro loam player, and from what I can tell that deck is heavily favored regardless of Depths provided the opponent knows what they're doing. What enabled you to win your second match against it?

[Skriger]

I drew more lands than John Avon. Loss #3.
*Snicker*

Aggro Loam is not a good match-up for post decks. If you can lock out their crucial pieces (w/ surgical extraction, Rest in Peace, Pithing Needle) then you have the game. If not, you will be rolled quickly.

[203995014]

*Snicker*

Aggro Loam is not a good match-up for post decks. If you can lock out their crucial pieces (w/ surgical extraction, Rest in Peace, Pithing Needle) then you have the game. If not, you will be rolled quickly.

I think you need to read his comment again

[Skriger]

I think you need to read his comment again

I don't see what's the issue. Surgical and Rest in Peace messes up their wasteland/Punishing Fire recursion. Pithing Needle on Liliana or on Knight slow that whole beast down as well. This leaves them with trying to kill you with Deathrite or Scavenging ooze which is easy for post to deal with.

[Ehhh]

@Ehhh your build is very similar to this thread - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28391-Primer-Nic-Feat-8Post/page14 I even notice your success with your build but had some questions about build chooses.

yeah thanks for the link i just posted in that Thread.. what questions did you have ?

[maCHOOga]

I'm curious what are the tweaks you made. I've been moving away from Ancient Stirrings to a GSZ-Veteran Explorer build myself in view of the increased prevalence of Chalices. Could you provide a list?


I know this aggro loam player, and from what I can tell that deck is heavily favored regardless of Depths provided the opponent knows what they're doing. What enabled you to win your second match against it?

k_omega here is the current list ive been testing. Im happy to explain any of the card choices.
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Warping Wail
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Expedition Map
3 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Crop Rotation
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Savannah
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tireless Tracker
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
4 Primeval Titan
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Veteran Explorer
3 Swords to Plowshares

2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Rest in Peace
1 Bojuka Bog

[k_omega]

I do have a few questions:

1) I run 3 maps and 4 Crop Rotations, because with fewer copies it's noticeably harder to find Cloudposts and to hold up Wasteland protection. Do you find yourself having that problem using only 2 and 3 copies of those cards?
2) I also find it strange that you have zero needles and yet shaved a copy of Crop Rotation, further with no sideboard Surgical to extract Wastelands. I guess the idea is to just take whatever the opponent dishes out?
3) How often do you GSZ for Oracle or Tracker?
4) When I played a similar list, I found 3 Thought-Knots to be cluttering up my hand when I wanted to be casting other spells. Was that a problem for you as well?
5) How do you like Ghostly Prison?

Thanks!

[maCHOOga]

I do have a few questions:

1) I run 3 maps and 4 Crop Rotations, because with fewer copies it's noticeably harder to find Cloudposts and to hold up Wasteland protection. Do you find yourself having that problem using only 2 and 3 copies of those cards?
2) I also find it strange that you have zero needles and yet shaved a copy of Crop Rotation, further with no sideboard Surgical to extract Wastelands. I guess the idea is to just take whatever the opponent dishes out?
3) How often do you GSZ for Oracle or Tracker?
4) When I played a similar list, I found 3 Thought-Knots to be cluttering up my hand when I wanted to be casting other spells. Was that a problem for you as well?
5) How do you like Ghostly Prison?

Thanks!

1.) I've run 4 crop rotations for a while but I had to shave cards to squeeze in Swords to Plowshares. I had a knack for drawing multiples, which often didn't seem ideal to me. Decks running wastelands usually are too fast for you to play maps as well. I often feel like I don't have time to take 2 turns off against an wasteland agro deck. Let alone they are awful to draw when staring down a chalice. I do agree, miracles can't beat map...so the more the better.

2.) I had merfolk wasteland me 4 times in one game. {They copied my primetime and got of them.} Usually it's the 3rd wasteland that gets me. I do want to bring some number of surgicals back to board to help with the graveyard strategy matchups. My only issue is if I remove a creature, I can't surgical the remaining.

3.) I always go for primetime if I have 7 mana, if I don't with my current hand, I have been searching for either of them. Oracle is better if you have multiple lands in hand, tracker is good if you just have one. I'm still trying tracker, so theres a chance something else is better in this slot. It's weird because if you want instant value out of tracker with GSZ, it's a turn 5 play. If it lives through the next untap, it's been great.

4.) I've been using TKS as my thoughtsezie effects. If I have 4 mana and one in hand, I'm prioritizing that over anything else. I haven't hit a point where I TKS instead of durdled and it cost me the game.

5.) So it's what I'm trying for the agro matchups. I've used it to greatly slow down eldrazi to try to buy time. I can't get behind the dawnstrider because its a 1/1 that dies to anything. If delver has a FoW, they will force it, everytime. Unfortuantely, they can also just abrupt decay it, which is relavant.

[cwcomposer]

New decklists for Titan-Post don't show up on MTG Top 8 very often, but I just found this three-color list from Joe Barry:

1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
3 Flooded Strand
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Veteran Explorer
4 Primeval Titan

4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Show and Tell
4 Terminus

Sideboard:

1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling Mage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Swan Song
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Hydroblast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction

Source: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13633&d=280235&f=LE

Does he post here? Anyone know him? What do we think of this?

[Neko448]

Played at a local event this last Saturday which had about 35 people in attendance. My matchups were okay, but I had a lot of fun. Omniscience is my boyfriend

4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Glacial Chasm

1x Eye of Ugin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Thespian Stage
2x Vesuva
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost

4x Primeval Titan
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Platinum Emperion
2x Omniscience

4x Brainstorm
4x Crop rotation
4x Show and Tell
2x Force of Will
2x Flusterstorm


4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Candelabra of Twanos

2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SB:
2x Surgical
2x Pithing Needle
2x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
1x Tabernacle
1x Maze of Ith
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Trickbind


Round 1: ANT

I recognize this player and he recognizes me. I don't interact with him much in real life, but he's on the list of people I snapchat tournament results to. He absolutely knows what I'm on.
G1:

I dork around pretty hard, represent Crop Rotation and all that while spinning a top. Top of my deck is not thrilling. I've got a force and a flusterstorm, but they eat it to some hand removal. He goes off with three LEDs in play and I'm pretty sure I'm just_dead.dec but instead of tutor chaining me to death, he makes 14 goblins. Tabernacle is burning in my sideboard, but I feel like I still have a chance here. With glimmerposts I'm at 29 life, so I'm not exactly worried. Honestly, I point out while I'm taking my turn that I should be just_dead.dec and why. I find Emprion with top, then Crop Rotate into the prerequisite Cloudpost to cast. He hits me for 14 then kinda balks when Emprion hits the table. We keep playing for some reason (I guess he was hoping I'd attack?) but after a few turns of draw go I stick titan and that's enough to scoop.

G2:
I keep a pretty spicy hand with a cloudpost, a couple trops, a force, fluster and trickbind. He t1 ponders, then passes. I draw surgical, play the trop and pass back. He plays a fetch, then duresses me, which I Flusterstorm. Then he cracks the fetch and in response to that (so he doesn't get the priority to cast another) I surgical his Duress. He's actually got 2 more in his hand and he's a bit salty about this. A couple turns later he blows a load into an infernal tutor, which I counter and he's done at that point. We talk for a bit and he comments that he's quite rusty with the deck, but still enjoys playing it.

Round 2: Bant Humans? 1-0

This deck really caught me by surprise. Apparently it placed somewhere recently but I had no idea. My opponent knows who I am thus knows what deck I'm on and I play accordingly.
Game 1: I mulligan and he plays first. He casts a meddling mage turn 2 and I feel like I have to force it, so I do. He just sticks another though and names Crop Rotation, which he's seen with Gitaxian Probe. I almost cast it in response, but I'm positive he'll counter it (which after the game he said he would). I end up just spending the whole game trying to make land drops with top and he eventually runs me over with 2/2s. I never saw a wasteland, but it's hard for me to accept that it's not coming out the sideboard or something.
Game 2: He mulligans now, and I keep a strong show hand. He probes then therapy's me on turn 2, and I cast a Brainstorm off with Top and hide my snt pieces. There was actually a second show and tell in the top three which I leave in my hand (and he names) thus making it seem like I've messed up the SnT plan. I cast a show and tell turn four that's protected with a flusterstorm that nabs a force from him. I put in prime time and power out an eldrazi in a couple of turns. Still no wastelands, but I leave in all the crop rotations and bring in needle anyways.
Game 3:
This is a bit more rough for me. I have a top in my opener, which he sees, but I don't cast it turn one because I also have a fluster storm and crop which might be relevant. However, he just casts meddling mage and names top, which is very hard for me. I've got a show and tell -> omni -> ugin though, and I feel like if I make it to turn 4 he can't really beat that. However. He has another meddling mage, so I force pitching flusterstorm. I go for the show and tell, but it gets forced. Not too worried since I've got another, but he actually has Sanctum Prelate, which absolutely isn't something I can beat. He's beating down hard, so I get a Tabernacle, which isn't actually correct. Should have gotten Eye and just tried to rip cloudposts. He eventually kills me with 2/2s. I feel like if I knew more about this deck, I would have been a lot more successful in this matchup, as I played very loose in game 3.

Round 3: U/R Delver 1-1

Never seen this guy in my life, so I don't know what to expect. We greet eachother and he seems in pretty good spirits. I'm a bit down on myself from playing so poorly the last game, but we laugh and joke a bit.
Game 1: He goes foil snow covered island into ponder, so I figure he's on miracles or something. I just play cloudpost go and he's like "Aaah, here we go" untaps, casts Storm Chasermage and probes/BS. I play another cloudpost, top and spin. I've got the goods on top. The omni for the SnT in my hand, and an ugin. He uplays monastary swiftspear, delver, bolt and a probe. I slam the show and tell, put in omni, wipe his board with ugin, then cast primetime for a chasm and an eye, saccing my trop I had just played. He just concedes there and we get on with sideboarding.
Game 2: I expect to see a price at some point here, but who knows. He mulls, then goes mountain swiftspear. I play a karakas into top and pass. He bolts me twice, cracking for three. I spin and see i'm set up to SnT omni again and play bojuka bog. On his turn he shrugs, then bolts me, and attacks. I'm at six now, he's got one card in hand and two volcanics untapped. I've got SnT, omni, platinum emperion and two primetimes. My land is a misty. I think about it for awhile and realize I pretty much just have to go for it (also that if I get basic, he can't snap kill me with a price) so I show, and he has nothing. Cast all my spells and kill him. He apparently had boarded out Daze (which I told him was incorrect) and the last card in his hand was a force with no matching blue card.

Round 4: Jeskai Nahiri

This guy and I have played a bunch of times and he's always got a spicy brew. I've sat next to him every round so I know he's got wastes and standstills.
Game 1: We play land go for awhile, he wastes me, I crop rotate, he wastes me again (a tropical island while I have 2 cloudposts??), but eventually he casts Nahiri with five lands, which I decide to force even though I've got Newmrakul in my hand, just because she seems like a lot to deal with. He doesn't force back, which I take as a green light, and crop rotate into cloudpost then cast Newmrakul. He reads it and is like "Whatever~" so I draw his card for the turn. His hand is like, JtMS, Scalding Tarn, Engineered Explosives and Swords. I counter his own jace with the counterspell he draws, then cast EE for zero. On my turn, he tries to Swords the Emrakul and I have him read the card again. He laughs a bit and we go to game 2.

Game 2: He wastes me a bunch of times (three? Felt like five) and I've got three lands in play and a top. He's beating down hard with a Containment Priest and a mishra's factory, and I'm running out of options. I've got SnT, Omni, prime, prime in hand, but I feel like it's just not going to resolve. My top card is a misty, so I decide to act like there are no lands on top (A little huff and puff, idk.) and then crop rotate to try and bait the counter. He counters it, I draw the misty then cast the SnT. He doesn't seem worried about this because of Containment Priest, but I put in Omni and cast all the primetimes. He just gets run over by them and the match is done.

After the match, he tells me that acting like I didn't have any lands on top was 'sleezy' but if he doesn't counter the crop rotation I have no way to win. I'm the kind of person who has a negative poker face and I constantly hemorrhage information. He knew this and acted on that info. I feel like it's within my rights to leak false info. Was that sleezy?

Round 5: R/W painter 3-1

We draw and I go get a burger. Ghost pepper chipotle sauce, pepperjack and chipotle bacon. Absolutely an all star burger.

Top 8: Bant good stuff: Semis

I'm totally in the zone for this and smile through the whole shuffling part. I've sat next to him and know he's got stifles and wastelands. I feel like I play super tight in this whole match.
Game 1:
He's the higher seed and starts us off with a little land go. I play cloudpost, then trop, then cloudpost and a top. He wastes the first cloudpost on his third turn and I protect it with a crop rotation. Then he wastes the trop and I couldn't care less. I play another trop. He still hasn't comitted anything to the board. I cast a Candle on my turn, then roll that right into casting Ulamog on 2/3 of his land. He tries to stifle it, and but I've got flusterstorm, so he floats a white and loses his lands. Swords my guy and I gain 10. He plays a True Name at some point, but I eventually find eye, then emrakul him.
Game 2:
He like, actually casts spells this game, with a library, deathrite and stoneforge among them. I play lands or whatever it is my deck does. I don't remember a lot of this game, but I know at one point I got omniscience into play but had nothing else until I could top the next turn and he was able to Council's Judgement it. He got to put True Name in off of my SnT, which gave him a pretty threatening clock. I ended up staring down lethal with almost no options. He had a trop up and I was positive that he had the stifle. But I was backed into a wall, so I cast Ugin, which resolved, and then -4 him. My opponent pauses, and then says 'ok' which shocks me. However, he takes no further action, so I just read Ugin's text outloud. He's like "oh dang, I thought it was one thing! I want to stifle it." I tell him he had said okay very clearly. The judge who was watching agrees and all his board presence is gone. Eventually I just bolt him to death (He stifles one of the bolts) as he had gotten quite low from the Library. I felt kinda bad after this, but it was very clear he had acknowledged the card's ability.


Quarters: R/W Painter

I know this guy is on painter, but I don't mulligan correctly and never cast a colored spell in either game. Across both of our games, he cast like, 7 blood moon effects and ReB'd all my attempts to beat them. Alas! I forgot the Cardinal rule of this matchup which is: Mulligan to a basic!

Ended up with a Force of Will for my troubles (*Throws it in pile of fourteen forces*)

Thanks for reading! <3

[MechTactical]

Played at a local event this last Saturday which had about 35 people in attendance. My matchups were okay, but I had a lot of fun. Omniscience is my boyfriend

4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Glacial Chasm

1x Eye of Ugin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Thespian Stage
2x Vesuva
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost

4x Primeval Titan
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Platinum Emperion
2x Omniscience

4x Brainstorm
4x Crop rotation
4x Show and Tell
2x Force of Will
2x Flusterstorm


4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Candelabra of Twanos

2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SB:
2x Surgical
2x Pithing Needle
2x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
1x Tabernacle
1x Maze of Ith
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Trickbind

Thanks for reading! <3

Thanks for the Report!

Many things i would like to comment, but i'll stick to a few thoughts about the build.

In general i feel that cavern of souls in mapless builds doesn't shine as it should - it's2random without maps. Most of the time you don't want to crop rotate 4 it against control? I'd rather have another basic 4 redundancy sake or tabernacle or maze in your case? In 4x crop + 4x SnT builds i feel that you need 1x ancient tombs. If nothing else you shore up your "fair" e.g. no counter match-ups by a large margin. The speed is sometimes just silly, especially if you run something like moxD. Currently i'm fooling around with omni in a casual build with impulse and ponder.

[Neko448]

Thanks for the Report!

Many things i would like to comment, but i'll stick to a few thoughts about the build.

In general i feel that cavern of souls in mapless builds doesn't shine as it should - it's2random without maps. Most of the time you don't want to crop rotate 4 it against control? I'd rather have another basic 4 redundancy sake or tabernacle or maze in your case? In 4x crop + 4x SnT builds i feel that you need 1x ancient tombs. If nothing else you shore up your "fair" e.g. no counter match-ups by a large margin. The speed is sometimes just silly, especially if you run something like moxD. Currently i'm fooling around with omni in a casual build with impulse and ponder.

Ancient Tomb is just not good in my opinion. I've tried playing it for the sake of turning Crop Rotate into ramp, but there are just too many times where the damage it deals far outweighs the benefits. I would say my 'fair' matchups are absolutely my best, and I'm not going to make my worst matchups harder in order to shore up a matchup I was already winning.

I was just messing around with the Maze in the sb, but I do want a second Island. Either in the sb or somewhere in the main.

Cavern of Souls is absolutely amazing. I cut the maps right before the event to try something else, and you're right, it doesn't shine as bright. Crop Rotating into it is still an option, but instead of cutting it, I'll probably run a second. When the card is helping you cast titan it's dumbfounding and game changing.

Ponder seems find in a Omni-oriented build, but Impulse isn't strong enough in my opinion.

Thanks for your opinions.

[maCHOOga]

New decklists for Titan-Post don't show up on MTG Top 8 very often, but I just found this three-color list...

Source: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13633&d=280235&f=LE

....What do we think of this?

At first I was like how the heck did all this end up in a deck, then I realized its 62 cards maindeck. I proceeded to move on.


Played at a local event this last Saturday which had about 35 people in attendance.

...Game 2: He wastes me a bunch of times (three? Felt like five) and I've got three lands in play and a top. He's beating down hard with a Containment Priest and a mishra's factory, and I'm running out of options. I've got SnT, Omni, prime, prime in hand, but I feel like it's just not going to resolve. My top card is a misty, so I decide to act like there are no lands on top (A little huff and puff, idk.) and then crop rotate to try and bait the counter. He counters it, I draw the misty then cast the SnT. He doesn't seem worried about this because of Containment Priest, but I put in Omni and cast all the primetimes. He just gets run over by them and the match is done.

After the match, he tells me that acting like I didn't have any lands on top was 'sleezy' but if he doesn't counter the crop rotation I have no way to win. I'm the kind of person who has a negative poker face and I constantly hemorrhage information. He knew this and acted on that info. I feel like it's within my rights to leak false info. Was that sleezy?

...

We draw and I go get a burger. Ghost pepper chipotle sauce, pepperjack and chipotle bacon. Absolutely an all star burger.



About the sleazy..you're there to win. If people are being jerks, you have the right to reciprocate it back at them. You opponent has no room to talk, since he wastelanded you three times, without loams or graveyard recursion. This is like the time where someone cast cabal therapy against me and was like that "big green giant that will kill me." I just stared them back with a poker face and said, "and the card name is?" After a minute, I called a judge. He blanked, I seized the opportunity and won with it. In the same regard if I know someone is on miracles and they don't know I'm on 12post, I will turn 1 cloudpost them and dead-eye stare them.

[Neko448]

About the sleazy..you're there to win. If people are being jerks, you have the right to reciprocate it back at them. You opponent has no room to talk, since he wastelanded you three times, without loams or graveyard recursion. This is like the time where someone cast cabal therapy against me and was like that "big green giant that will kill me." I just stared them back with a poker face and said, "and the card name is?" After a minute, I called a judge. He blanked, I seized the opportunity and won with it. In the same regard if I know someone is on miracles and they don't know I'm on 12post, I will turn 1 cloudpost them and dead-eye stare them.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Sometimes I feel like I play too serious and don't want to be known as an 'angle shooter' but you're right, I wanted to win and I did what it took.

Haha, on the subject of playing against miracles, once I played a guy and he went tundra into top, so I followed with Island into Candle. He puts me on combo and forces it, so the next turn I play cloudpost map and he's like "uuuh." Poor miracles opponents :( I hope they never ban Terminus.

[Saab93]

New decklists for Titan-Post don't show up on MTG Top 8 very often, but I just found this three-color list from Joe Barry:

Source: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13633&d=280235&f=LE

Does he post here? Anyone know him? What do we think of this?

That would be me. I wrote a tournament report on page 289 (post # 5774). NorthWestDork has done well with the (virtually) same list it a couple times before me.


Hrm... this deck looks eerily familiar. :wink: GJ on your Top 4

Edit: Just to add context, it seems this deck does fairly well in the Seattle area. Ive piloted it twice myself to strong finishes in the same Seattle Event Series.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274098&f=LE
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12500&d=272031&f=LE

And yes, my sideboard is all over the place.


At first I was like how the heck did all this end up in a deck, then I realized its 62 cards maindeck. I proceeded to move on.

The list I used is not being reported correctly on that website. I can assure you that it does not have more than 60 cards in the maindeck.

[Lormador]

I've been experimenting a little bit with Tireless Tracker and Counterbalance in the sideboard.

Tireless Tracker: comes in against Blood Moon decks, combo (where he's a quicker clock than ramping up to Eldrazi), Eldrazi, and Delver. His increased value against combo is marginal in that he's still a 3 drop, but all of the other uses are totally legitimate. I like having a nice, proactive threat that can go wide against Blood Moon and land disruption. He's almost as good in this deck as he is in Lands.

Counterbalance: often dismissed because of mana issues, it's actually not that bad if the deck is tweaked slightly for a little more blue. Obviously intended for combo, but fine for Delver as well where it can prevent being burned out. Repeal gets better with this out as well.

I really wanted to run Chalice of the Void, but with so many 1 drops, I don't see it working. This is a one-sided Chalice... kind of. Put those 1 drops to work!

[Skriger]

Anyone play test with Coercive Portal yet? Seems like great early game card advantage and constant pressure later on.

[Leshrac82]

I've been experimenting a little bit with Tireless Tracker and Counterbalance in the sideboard.

Tireless Tracker: comes in against Blood Moon decks, combo (where he's a quicker clock than ramping up to Eldrazi), Eldrazi, and Delver. His increased value against combo is marginal in that he's still a 3 drop, but all of the other uses are totally legitimate. I like having a nice, proactive threat that can go wide against Blood Moon and land disruption. He's almost as good in this deck as he is in Lands.


I've also been trying 1 Tireless Tracker in the GW/NicFit shell. Overall I've been impressed, provided it A. resolves and B. lives 1 turn. It serves as a great brick wall that generates card advantage.

Nice to see finally some more of you try out Tireless Tracker. I haven't played on xmage for a while, but i did systematically test a lot of different versions of my build against Tier 1-2 decks, going in a few different directions. One of those directions was the idea with Enlightened Tutor i wrote about a few pages back, but that didn't really work out the way i wanted to. In short: It's marginally stronger against some combo decks, Miracles and Delver, but against every non-blue midrange deck it fell completely apart (as in: turning 70% matchups into 30% matchups). It might still be an option at some point, but i really don't think the meta right now i ideal to try that. So no Enlightened Tutors any more in my current build, instead back to the Gwb version i had before, but with some changes.

Current list:

Lands:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
5 green fetchlands
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog


Creatures:

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


Spells:

3 Mox Diamond
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Grapple with the Past
1 Sylvan Library
2 Warping Wail
2 Toxic Deluge


Sideboard:

1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Lost Legacy
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Surgical Extraction


Going over all my changes:

1. Lands:
- I got rid of the Ghost Quarter (or Wasteland). I just didn't use it often enough, and it does nothing for the ramp plan. Sometimes i miss it against Infect or Lands, but otherwise this is completely fine.
- I got rid of the Tabernacle. Didn't really need it. It might hurt against Delver, but overall i think the Delver matchup is not worse than before, maybe even better, because of some other changes. And Tabernacle also doesn't help the ramp plan. Budget concerns had nothing to do with the cut, but cutting the cost almost in half is a nice side effect.
- I added Cavern of Souls. With 2 Titans it can do some work against Miracles on Giant, and against other decks i often put it on Humans, because most of my other creatures are actually Humans. I have been happy with it, even without Expedition Map and without 4 Titans it randomly wins a lot of games against blue decks and can be manafixing otherwise.
- Got the colored sources in order: 1 Savannah is enough, i only want it for the Knight or in sideboarded games when i bring in other white cards. But i only bring those in against decks that usually don't play Wasteland, so one source is enough. I need 2 Bayou, because black is more important in other matchups and against Wasteland decks. That leaves room for 2 basics, and that's fine.

2. Creatures:
- I added the 2nd Titan. Testing with more traditional builds has shown me the advantages of having access to a backup Titan if they get rid of the first one or if one is just not enough. However, i'm more than happy with just 2 - i tried playing 3 in one build, but overall that leads to more clunky hands.
- I readded the Titania, after i cut it for the Tutor build initially. Tried many builds without Titania, after cutting her for the 2nd Titan. Those did better than those with just one Titan, but those with Titania were even stronger. Especially against Liliana decks this is just very important to have.
- I settled on 3 Tireless Tracker. Whenever i went down to 1 or 2, the winrate dropped. Instead of a 4th one i like additional bullets instead.
- I went down to just 1 Knight. Knight needs to live to do something, and he doesn't, there is a good chance the 2nd won't either and i usually prefer other creatures in that case. So just one is enough.
- I added 1 Eternal Witness. With Grapple with the Past, you sometimes mill something you need later on, but either can't get with Grapple or don't want to get right now with Grapple. That's enough added utility to make Witness good enough, she isn't bad anyway.
- I added 1 Scavenging Ooze. That's still not settled, but i like the additional graveyard hate - Deathrite can deal with combo decks just fine, but against fair decks using the graveyard, Scooze is much stronger - it can actually keep Goyfs and Knights under control, and is still good against many combo decks.

3. Spells:
- I cut the Crucible of Worlds. That hurts a bit against Lands, but overall it was just often too slow and not impactful enough. I have enough recursion effects with Grapple, Witness and Titania, i don't think i really need infinite recursion.
- I settled on 3 Grapple with the Past. The lists with 3 instead of just 2 always performed better, especially after i made some changes to improve it. I really don't find the room for the full 4, and there is still the risk of running into RiP or Leyline of the Void, so 3 it is.
- I settled on 4 GSZ. The lists with just 3 were performing significantly worse, so no more cuts on that card.
- I settled on 3 Mox Diamond. Playing 4 didn't improve the deck, and after reading in the Reanimator thread about them playing exactly 3 Lotus Petals, i realized the same arguments are probably true for Mox Diamonds for me: I want exactly 1 in my opening hand, but i really don't want to see 2 or more.
- Toxic Deluge over Engineered Explosives. Explosives is more flexible, but Deluge is better at the main application - keeping the board clean. I wouldn't mind playing Explosives Main in addition, but Deluge is the more important card.
- 1 Sylvan Library over the 3rd Top. Both cards are similar, both cards are better in different situations. While i still think Top is more often the better card, there are a lot of situations where i like drawing extra cards with Library - basically against every deck that isn't very aggressive. Also, i'm not playing Ugin or All is Dust, so it's unlikely i kill my own Library as colateral damage.

4. Sideboard:
- I cut the additional Warping Wails and Crop Rotation. Both cards are fine maindeck choices, but there are better sideboard cards for the matchups where i would board them in (against combo mostly), and some combo decks where those 2 cards just don't do enough or even anything relevant (thinking about Aluren for example).
- I added Gaddock Teeg and 2 Ethersworn Canonist. I guess you have to see both sides of a match to really see the value of those creatures, at least for me that changed my rather negative opinion. Also, having 3 anti-combo creatures in the deck (even more if you count Scooze, Knight and Deathrite) makes Grapple with the Past actually a good card postboard against combo decks.
- I tried out 2 Lost Legacy, and i like them. Against almost every combo deck, there is something to name to cripple them, sometimes to win on the spot. The BB casting cost makes it sometimes hard to cast on curve, but in testing it was still better than Memoricide, in short because a 50% chance to cast it on turn 2 or 3 is just better than a 80% chance to cast it one turn later, if that's the turn you die.


I tested my builds against many different Tier 1-2 decks, and i also tested some other (more traditional?) builds against those decks, and this build (and similar builds that were just 2-3 cards off) outperformed everything else by far over a decent samplesize.

[Rock Lee]

Went undefeated yesterday in weekly magic with a somewhat standard list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [NPH] Dismember
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace


I've been testing with a heavy trinket mage build and also with this build. i think they are both viable and are simply meta calls.

Matchups were: Eldrazi Aggro (2-1), Tezzerator (2-1), Cephalid Breakfast (2-1), ID. Weird matchups for sure, but the deck still got a good testrun.

[203995014]

Went undefeated yesterday in weekly magic with a somewhat standard list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [NPH] Dismember
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace


I've been testing with a heavy trinket mage build and also with this build. i think they are both viable and are simply meta calls.

Matchups were: Eldrazi Aggro (2-1), Tezzerator (2-1), Cephalid Breakfast (2-1), ID. Weird matchups for sure, but the deck still got a good testrun.

Do you have a list for the Trinket Mage version?

Also, what role does Dismember serve in this deck?

[Rock Lee]

Do you have a list for the Trinket Mage version?

Also, what role does Dismember serve in this deck?

Trinket mage Version is close to this:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm


Dismember is pretty straightforward. Deals with problematic creatures. Nearly every deck has some that are annoying. DRS, pyromancer/mentor, metalworker, tks/reality smasher, delvers. Rather than clocking yourself, you just kill it. You can always gain life back later.

[Rock Lee]

Trinket mage Version is close to this:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm


The Trinket mage version was originally focused on abusing Aetherflux Reservoir, but I kept trimming the AEtherflux Reservoirs until i was down to zero, but the Trinket Mages were still great. TM(Trinket mage) version is better versus a slow meta not filled with combo. The Trickbind/Repeal build is to combat random combo and is less meta-specific.

[maCHOOga]

I guess no-one has posted yet about SCG Baltimore but there were two 12post decks that made day 2.
k_omega and into_play I believe on GW and UG respectively. Both k_omega & myself ultimated our opponents Liliana oTV over the course of day 1 and made our respective opponents choose the pile of nothing.

I, of course got soul crushed again in round 9, game 3 for a record of 5-4 on G/W post. :-(
Losses on the day:
- BUGw Aluren in Round 2

This matchup seems unwinnable. I got a sphere of resistance to stick and I ended up getting slow-rolled with the combo. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to Krip Aluren or Parastic Strix. I've faced this matchup online a bunch and it feels like everything I try doesn't work.

- Grixis Delver in Round 3

Jammed a Primetime into a Daze in game 3. I was on the play and he left all 4 in, his reseasoning was he didn't have anything better in SB?
I wanted to hedge against eldrazi so I ran 1 blessed alliance over a 3rd STP. It was awesome when it killed a flipped delver and I gained 4 life to boot!

- Grixis Delver in Round 5

Game 3 on the draw I faced a turn 1 delver, blind flip on turn 2. Turn 2 delver, blind flip FoW on turn 3. Sometimes you just don't get to play magic I guess?

- Shardless BUG in Round 9

Game 3 with day 2 on the wire, my opponent over the course of the game goes Pithing needle #1: SDT, Pithing needle #2: Eye of Ugin, Null Rod.
We hit the point where we both had 0 cards in hand, he had a liliana and a tarmogoyf, while I had Maze of Ith was holding of the goyf while we were both drawing cards. I drew multiple primetimes and bogs & padded my life total. If I would have been playing a kalini heart garden or dryad arbor, primetime would have lived and I would have won the match.
It was a topdeck war basically. He hit thoughtsieze, land, goyf into goyf; while I drew useless cards: land, Top, Candelabra (I left one in), land into land. I haven't calculated the odds, but I had plenty of live draws: Ugin (x2), Rec Sage/GSZ (x4), Eldrazi Titans (x3).

Another large event, another failure at the end. The story of my life with this deck. :-P

[Leshrac82]

Losses on the day:
- BUGw Aluren in Round 2

This matchup seems unwinnable. I got a sphere of resistance to stick and I ended up getting slow-rolled with the combo. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to Krip Aluren or Parastic Strix. I've faced this matchup online a bunch and it feels like everything I try doesn't work.


I haven't played much against Aluren, but on xmage i was 3-0 against it and testing against myself the winrate is also positive. I think this matchup isn't that bad, probably 50/50 for me, but not much worse for other builds either.

Their combo is basically a 2-card combo. They need Aluren and they need Recruiter (or Cavern Harpy and Parasitic Strix, but those are 1-ofs usually). If they have that, i think your only chance is Grip on Aluren. They have Eternal Witness, so this will only buy you 1-2 turns, but it's something. If you Grip the Strix, they just get Witness and you don't even get another Turn.

With my current build, i don't even have that much interaction against them:
1. Discard. 2-3 Thoughtseize in the board to take whatever combo piece they already have. I'm thinking about playing some copies maindeck even, it's good against combo and useful enough otherwise. (You have TKS i think. I don't like it, because it's too slow against other combo decks, but it should often be fast enough against Aluren.)
2. Ethersworn Canonist (and maybe Trinisphere). They have to get rid of it to combo, either with Abrupt Decay or with a RecSage to tutor up (so it doesn't stop the combo, but slows it down).
3. Gaddock Teeg. They have to get rid of it to play Aluren, and the usually only have Abrupt Decay for that job.
4. Lost Legacy, usually naming Aluren.
(Not a good option: Leyline. They should have RecSage in their deck, and no problem to search it up during the combo to blow it up.)

But i often win without using any of the combo hate, because they are not that consistant at assembling the combo: They don't have any way to search for the combo pieces, and far less cantrips than other combo decks. They usually survive long enough with creatures like Baleful Strix to make attacking really unprofitable, but if we play a fast Titan, we should be able to have Emrakul in play fast enough to beat them if they stumble a little bit.

If they have the combo on Turn 3 or 4, we will usually just lose, but from my experience, that doesn't happen that often, and i think we should win most of the time if they don't.

[k_omega]

I guess no-one has posted yet about SCG Baltimore but there were two 12post decks that made day 2.
k_omega and into_play I believe on GW and UG respectively.

I thought I saw into_play but wasn't sure enough to introduce myself, having only seen him while studying his feature matches. Anyway, I do have my report in all its lengthy glory.

I made top 64 (going 10-5) at SCG Baltimore with the following GW list, modified from maCHOOga's and lovingly dubbed "G/W Eldrazi Post" by SCG (why they can't just use what I put on the decklist form is beyond me):

4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Forest
3 Green fetches
2 Vesuva, Savannah, Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas, Thespian's Stage, Khalni Garden, Eye of Ugin, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle

4 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Veteran Explorer, Reclamation Sage, Oracle
1 Old Emrakul, New Emrakul, New Ulamog

2 Ugin
4 Top, Crop Rotation
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Expedition Map, Swords to Plowshares, Warping Wail

Sideboard:
3 Leyline of Sanctity, Trinisphere
2 Krosan Grip, Ghostly Prison, Rest in Peace
1 Dawnstrider, Elderscale Wurm, Gaddock Teeg


Comments on card choices
I deliberately veered from my Ancient Stirrings builds in favor of a GSZ one. I didn't like and don't own Ancient Tombs, so I replaced them with the ever-powerful Khalni Garden and Bojuka Bog. In lieu of Tireless Tracker I used Rec Sage to have a game-one answer to Chalices and hateful enchantments. I took the fearless plunge into playing zero Pithing Needles, and my skepticism on that point has been largely dispelled.

The weird green creatures are in the sideboard to get maximum value out of GSZ, since some decks just can't beat an Elderscale Wurm or a Dawnstrider. These slots used to be CoP: Red but I found that the decks against which Circles were good tended to be too fast to reliably find one of the two copies, and could pressure me into tapping low or holding up mana for too many turns. Circles also don't stop Delvers. So I decided to eschew Circles in favor of searchable bullets for troublesome matchups. This turned out to be a poor decision in view of the matchups I faced.

Round 1: 2-0 vs. Shardless BUG (Matt Quinn)
Game 1: I swords some Tarmogoyfs which buys some time, but I spin my wheels and my Top for too long and he gets Liliana up to 6. I draw Vesuva while hellbent and hold it, enticing him to plus Lili instead of ultimating her. In the most absurd topdeck I've ever experienced, I draw new Emrakul and mindslaver him into sacrificing his whole board.
SB: +2 RiP, -1 Map, -1 Tabernacle
Game 2: I get put on the back foot by a curve of creatures, but he has no FoW for my Ugin which buys time for Top to find posts + new Emrakul.

Round 2: 2-1 vs. D&T (Chris Andersen)
Game 1: I expected him to be playing Lands and kept 7 on the strength of Bojuka Bog and Crop Rotation. I get punished for this error by new Thalia and company, and cast Ugin at 3 life. I wipe the board but he vials in 3 points of power.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Map, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 Bojuka Bog
Game 2: I mulligan to Oracle, Top, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva. He has no land disruption, top finds green mana, and a parade of Cloudposts enables old Emrakul to take the game.
Game 3: Much the same, without Oracle. I got to see a few grains of my opponent's legendary salt.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. D&T (Nicholas Gekoskie)
Game 1: He vials out three creatures with two lands, so I map for Tabernacle and use it to keep his board under control while I build up posts. Eventually I get Eye->New Emrakul to make him kill all his creatures with Jitte. He bounces it with Karakas, but realizes that Tabernacle + Emrakul makes for recurring Plague Wind and scoops.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Map, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 Bojuka Bog
Game 2: I sense that my opponent is inexperienced in the matchup so I bait him into wastelanding a Glimmerpost, which gets rotated into a Cloudpost. From there I build up while Tabernacle slows him down. Ulamog exiles his threats and his hopes.

Round 4: 2-1 vs. U/R Delver (Stuart Brooks)
Game 1: I take a lot of damage, but can cast Primeval Titan through Cavern to stabilize if he doesn't have the lethal Price of Progress. Naturally, he does.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +3 Trinisphere, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Bog, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 TKS, -1 New Emrakul, -2 Warping Wail
Game 2: He cantrips for 4 turns without finding a creature. I stabilize behind Chasm, gain tons of life, and establish Karakas + Ulamog to deprive him of lands for the burn spells.
-1 Trinisphere, +1 Warping Wail
Game 3: I trade off removal with his threats, and a TKS prompts a large but not lethal Price of Progress. I take a second Price and he has no other burn. Tabernacle + Prison + TKS slows down his offense apart from one Stormchaser Mage. He lands Blood Moon, and I take the opportunity to Titan a Chasm into play without losing a land, having a GSZ in hand to go get Reclamation Sage. I leave the Moon in play to lull my opponent, fetching Cloudposts off of Titan attacks while taking chunks out of his life total. I blow up the Moon, Eye for Ulamog to take out a Delver and Stormchaser, and he scoops after trying to Bolt me with the now-active Chasm in play. A very close game.

Round 5: 2-0 vs. Nic Fit (David Malafarina)
Game 1: He has double Explorer + double Therapy which severely hampers my early development. Consequently, I almost lose to Nissa, Vital Force but topdeck Crop Rotation -> Eye -> Old Emrakul + Karakas on the last possible turn.
SB: -1 Explorer, -1 Tabernacle, +2 Rest in Peace
Game 2: I keep a hand with Top and a bunch of lands, which neuters his Therapies while he ramps me with his Explorers. A standard game of Cloudposts -> Emrakul.

Round 6: 2-1 vs. Lands (Kyle Kurz)
Game 1: Maindeck Bojuka Bog pulls its weight, and Titan seals the game.
SB: +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Grip, +1 Elderscale Wurm, -1 Tabernacle, -2 TKS, -1 New Emrakul
Game 2: I mulligan to 4 and get Loam+Wastelanded out of the game.
Game 3: I Bog + RiP him into topdeck mode while my Top finds me the lands to cast Primeval Titan. Enough said.

Round 7: 1-2 vs. U/R Delver (Jacob Saracino)
Game 1: This player has Wastelands and Bomat Couriers, one of which I blow up with Rec Sage. I stabilize behind Chasm with enormous quantities of mana but no Eldrazi, and my Top shows three lands. For reasons I don't understand, my opponent just scoops anyway.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Bog, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 TKS, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Warping Wail
Game 2: I land a Ghostly Prison, but it isn't enough to stop large Stormchasers from flying over.
Game 3: I get stuck on lands and don't resolve anything relevant.

Round 8: 0-2 vs. U/R Delver (Lyle Rolfes)
Game 1: I stabilize behind Chasm but let it go at 1 life. I fade his first draw step, but the second one is the ever-present Price of Progress just before I would have taken over the game.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Bog, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 TKS, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Warping Wail
Game 2: True-Name Nemesis slips past my Thought-Knots and Price finishes the job.

Round 9: 1-2 vs. 4c Delver (Jadine Klomparens)
Game 1: She never finds a Wasteland, but Oracle finds me Cloudposts. Both Warping Wails showed up in the early turns to defuse a triple-Delver draw.
SB: +2 RiP, +2 Ghostly Prison, -1 Bog, -1 TKS, -1 Map, -1 Crop Rotation? (don't quite remember)
Game 2: I durdle around with Tops for a few turns. She has double Wasteland for my Cloudpost+Stage, followed by Surgical Extraction on Cloudpost. I resolve a TKS for information and die to True-Name.
Game 3: I cast turn 2 RiP which shuts off her T1 Deathrite and the Gurmag Angler in hand, and later blanked another Surgical. I resolve TKS and take FoW from among FoW+Angler+Bolt. I should have taken the bolt, as that would have allowed TKS to kill the Deathrite and survive to race the True-Name that followed. She plays a Wasteland which I could not bait her into using on a non-Cloudpost land so that I could respond with the Crop Rotation in hand. I never find a Cloudpost for bait and True-Name kills me again. To its credit, Ghostly Prison exacted its toll each combat though it did not affect the outcome of the game. In this match I would have liked a Pithing Needle, as it seems hard to get out from underneath an active Wasteland from a cunning opponent.

Round 10: 2-0 vs. Miracles (Daniel Miller)
Game 1: My hand has a T4 Ulamog with Zenith as backup, so I lead on Cloudpost following my opponent's play of Island-and-pass. Ulamog eats Jace + Counterbalance + Swords, but Zenith->Titan->Eye->Emrakul wins.
SB: +2 Grip, +1 Ghostly Prison, -1 Bog, -2 Crop Rotation
Game 2: I keep a slower hand and get some value from Oracle, while he digs hard for Clique + Karakas. After a few repetitions of draw-Clique, I screw up my Top ordering and end up drawing old Emrakul off of a Clique draw. I decide to play some mind games and slyly spin the Top on his end step. He tanks in my draw step, decides not to Clique me on the key turn, and loses as a result. Many laughs were had.

Round 11: 2-0 vs. Lands (Travis Downes)
Game 1: Maindeck Bog takes the game again. My opponent has clearly not seen my kind of deck before and doesn't realize what lines he should be taking.
SB: +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Grip, +1 Elderscale Wurm, -1 Tabernacle, -2 TKS, -1 New Emrakul
Game 2: I deploy a Cloudpost to entice Wasteland so I can Rotate->Bog to snag both a Loam and a Wasteland. He kindly obliges but puts a Loam for nothing in the graveyard. I spin into a Vesuva to snag the second Loam which reduces him to topdecking while I have Oracle + Top. My top cards have almost no lands though, so he gets enough time to Gamble for Depths and threaten Marit Lage. I Zenith for 0 to shuffle, find Thespian's Stage, and play it with mana to copy. After the staring contest continues for a couple turns I turn my Stage into a Cloudpost to enable Ulamog, and my opponent seizes the opportunity/takes the bait to produce the 20/20. I Ulamog it and his Exploration and win from there.

Round 12: 1-2 vs. eldrazi (Matthew Long)
Game 1: I Swords his T1 Matter Reshaper, Zenith for and block with Explorer, and get to Titan for Glimmerposts to enable Ulamog. A satisfying win, as I chose this build to better fight this menace.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +2 Grip, +1 Dawnstrider, +1 Elderscale Wurm, -2 Ugin, -2 Warping Wail, -1 Bog, -1 TKS
Game 2: I get run over by Mimic into double TKS, with a Wasteland that negated my potential topdecks.
Game 3: I chump some early attacks and deploy Chasm at 17 life. I copy a Glimmerpost and immediately kick myself for not Vesuva-ing his Ancient Tomb which would have allowed me to cast Titan a turn before I actually did, while having the damage prevented by Chasm. I also let go of the Chasm after two turns which proves to be bad as he has Dismember + Jitte counters for the Titan. I fumble around with Top but find nothing, though I did have the mana for Zenith->Elderscale Wurm which would have won the game.

Round 13: 0-2 vs. B/R Reanimator (Todd Anderson)
Game 1: Having seen some of the coverage the previous evening, I know what he is playing and am not pleased. I mulligan to Crop Rotation and get to Bog his graveyard after he reanimates Griselbrand and discards 11 cards. I don't find a Karakas or Swords though, and effectively lose when he reanimates Tidespout Tyrant. Mental invective is spouted.
SB: +3 Leyline, +2 RiP
Game 2: I mulligan to a 4 with Leyline, Top, and a land and hope to find Rest in Peace. I don't, and he has T2 Animate Dead on Tidespout with double Lotus Petal to bounce my lands. I still don't find a Swords for the Tidespout.

Round 14: 2-1 vs. Merfolk (Cassidy Delcourt)
Game 1: I play some lands, resolve Crop Rotation for Cavern, and proceed to drop 2 Primeval Titans over the next two turns with a third in hand. Ulamog gets Forced, but Emrakul tears the aeons and her board.
SB: +2 Grip, +2 Ghostly Prison, -2 Warping Wail, -1 Bog, -1 Crop Rotation
Game 2: I keep a slow hand that I really should have mulliganed. She plays Back to Basics and I opt not to cast anything so that I can topdeck Grip, Rec Sage, or Zenith. I don't and get run over by merfolk.
Game 3: Basically the same as Game 1. Steamrolling opponents is fun.

Round 15: 2-1 vs. Miracles (Matthew Tickal)
Technically this was an ID into top 64, but we played for fun and I saw a Miracles build that I hadn't seen before so I'm including it here.
Game 1: I lead with a Forest, expecting to Crop Rotate it. He plays an Island and passes, from which I decided he is playing Miracles. This conclusion was confirmed by the groan upon seeing the Forest become a Cloudpost. This Miracles player, however, plays Wastelands which buys him some time. Emrakul eventually cleans up anyway.
SB: +2 Grip, +1 Ghostly Prison, -1 Bog, -2 Crop Rotation
Game 2: I expected him to play Mentors, which he did not, but did not expect Wasteland + Crucible, which he did. He Forces my GSZ for Rec Sage and I don't topdeck a Grip for the Crucible before I have too few lands to cast it.
-1 Prison, -1 TKS, -1 Map, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Bog
Game 3: He never finds a Wasteland, and although Clique + Karakas slows me down I eventually get Titans through Caverns for the win. It turns out that Eye + TKS is very good against Terminus.


Observations
1) Ghostly Prison leaves much to be desired. While it severely hampered my first U/R Delver opponent, I never managed to both resolve it and have it be more than a mere nuisance in any subsequent match. My eldrazi opponent did TKS it away, which I suppose indicates that it has some utility in that matchup. I think I would prefer actual removal (Blessed Alliance, more StP, maybe even Clip Wings) in its place but I'll test it some more.

2) Neither Dawnstrider nor Elderscale Wurm made an appearance, so no experimental results for those.

3) Naturally, the first tournament in which I play Rest in Peace over Surgical Extraction is the tournament in which I play against B/R Reanimator. So I continue to waffle on the choice between the two. I'm not sure how necessary RiP is against Lands: I've reached the conclusion that I can beat all but the best Lands players by being smart with Bog and Karakas, but my local meta has multiple strong Lands players. RiP played no role in my win over Shardless, which is the other matchup in which I'd want it, but did stop Surgicals from my 4c Delver opponent. Perhaps a coin flip is in order.

4) I return to my prior opinion that 3 TKS is too many. It isn't particularly good on defense as any attacker + Bolt kills it, and isn't particularly necessary in any given matchup other than perhaps Omnitell. I do like having at least 2 in order to tutor them up with Eye and snag Prices while allowing for one to get countered.

5) Contrary to previous experience, Candelabra was not necessary to fight new Thalia from D&T. Granted, in the times when she appeared I was firing on all cylinders anyway.

6) StP was amazing, and I'd like to play a 3rd copy. Having more answers (and nonland answers) to Marit Lage makes the Lands matchup feel like a breeze despite the absence of Pithing Needle.

7) 4 Forests seems like the right number to get maximum value out of Veteran Explorer even after drawing or being forced to fetch basics. Only once (against Nic Fit after he had already sacked an Explorer) did I get fewer than 2 basics from my Explorer.

8) Explorer was excellent against slow decks and eldrazi. I took it out against U/R Delver but it might be correct to keep it in since one needs to ramp quickly in that matchup.

9) Maindeck Reclamation Sage was OK but not great, and its best moments were in sideboarded games. I didn't face many Chalice decks though and I think having the extra sideboard slot helps.

10) The Delver matchup needs work. My plan was to tax their mana with Tabernacle + Prison + Trinisphere but after the first match decided that Trinisphere was not that good, and the full taxing plan only worked against one of my Delver opponents because it takes three turns to set up.

11) Khalni Garden > Dryad Arbor still, though on a couple of occasions it would have been nice to be able to Zenith for 0 meaningfully.

Thanks for reading, and I welcome any thoughts or questions you have.

[maCHOOga]

Congrats on the top 64. Did you get a feature match at all?

I thought I saw into_play but wasn't sure enough to introduce myself, having only seen him while studying his feature matches. Anyway, I do have my report in all its lengthy glory.

I made top 64 (going 10-5) at SCG Baltimore with the following GW list, modified from maCHOOga's and lovingly dubbed "G/W Eldrazi Post" by SCG (why they can't just use what I put on the decklist form is beyond me):

Observations
1) Ghostly Prison leaves much to be desired. While it severely hampered my first U/R Delver opponent, I never managed to both resolve it and have it be more than a mere nuisance in any subsequent match. My eldrazi opponent did TKS it away, which I suppose indicates that it has some utility in that matchup. I think I would prefer actual removal (Blessed Alliance, more StP, maybe even Clip Wings) in its place but I'll test it some more.

2) Neither Dawnstrider nor Elderscale Wurm made an appearance, so no experimental results for those.

3) Naturally, the first tournament in which I play Rest in Peace over Surgical Extraction is the tournament in which I play against B/R Reanimator. So I continue to waffle on the choice between the two. I'm not sure how necessary RiP is against Lands: I've reached the conclusion that I can beat all but the best Lands players by being smart with Bog and Karakas, but my local meta has multiple strong Lands players. RiP played no role in my win over Shardless, which is the other matchup in which I'd want it, but did stop Surgicals from my 4c Delver opponent. Perhaps a coin flip is in order.

4) I return to my prior opinion that 3 TKS is too many. It isn't particularly good on defense as any attacker + Bolt kills it, and isn't particularly necessary in any given matchup other than perhaps Omnitell. I do like having at least 2 in order to tutor them up with Eye and snag Prices while allowing for one to get countered.

5) Contrary to previous experience, Candelabra was not necessary to fight new Thalia from D&T. Granted, in the times when she appeared I was firing on all cylinders anyway.

6) StP was amazing, and I'd like to play a 3rd copy. Having more answers (and nonland answers) to Marit Lage makes the Lands matchup feel like a breeze despite the absence of Pithing Needle.

7) 4 Forests seems like the right number to get maximum value out of Veteran Explorer even after drawing or being forced to fetch basics. Only once (against Nic Fit after he had already sacked an Explorer) did I get fewer than 2 basics from my Explorer.

8) Explorer was excellent against slow decks and eldrazi. I took it out against U/R Delver but it might be correct to keep it in since one needs to ramp quickly in that matchup.

9) Maindeck Reclamation Sage was OK but not great, and its best moments were in sideboarded games. I didn't face many Chalice decks though and I think having the extra sideboard slot helps.

10) The Delver matchup needs work. My plan was to tax their mana with Tabernacle + Prison + Trinisphere but after the first match decided that Trinisphere was not that good, and the full taxing plan only worked against one of my Delver opponents because it takes three turns to set up.

11) Khalni Garden > Dryad Arbor still, though on a couple of occasions it would have been nice to be able to Zenith for 0 meaningfully.

Thanks for reading, and I welcome any thoughts or questions you have.

1.) I ended up cutting ghostly prison after EE5 and playing online when I realized it's better to remove creatures than tax them. Likewise, ensnaring bridge is in the same camp; except we usually can't empty our hands fast enough.

3.) I've been demolished by the BR deck online, so I opted for 2 surgicals and 0 RIPs. Ironically, tarmogoyfs did me in at the end. Going forward it may be a 1/2 split depending on the metagame? I of course didn't see any BR reanimator.

4.) I'm in the same boat. I think it has a place in the deck, its just a matter of the quanitity. I'm just looking for a hard to bolt idiot that provides inference/time.

6.) I audibled to 2 STPs, 1 blessed alliance main. I think it should be 3 STPs main, with alliances SB. Alliance was great for me until I needed to kill a young pyromancer and not a stupid token. It also has the ability to kill TNNs (if swinging alone.)

[Leshrac82]

1.) I ended up cutting ghostly prison after EE5 and playing online when I realized it's better to remove creatures than tax them. Likewise, ensnaring bridge is in the same camp; except we usually can't empty our hands fast enough.

My own testing with Ghostly Prison had similar results - it can be great if you get the right combination of cards out (with Tabernacle and/or Choke for example), but that just doesn't happen often enough. It's one reason why i gave up on my Enlightened Tutor build (i tried Moat, but it's slower, harder to cast, and still doesn't stop Delver). Black with Toxic Deluge is a huge improvement over that.

Ensnaring Bridge on the other hand has a different purpose for me: It's very strong against Sneak&Show, Omnitell and Mono-Red SneakAttack (they have to answer it and very few answers), against Eldrazi (even less answers, just sometimes not getting your hand empty fast enough can be an issue), it's good against Reanimator (mostly Tidespout is the only answer, maybe some Abrupt Decays), Lands (just Krosan Grip as answer, and they might have boarded out some of their alternative winconditions) and Turbo-Depths (only answer is Abrupt Decay, and they can't win with it on board). Against other fair decks it's just medium - i bring it in against most Delver decks (not UR), but don't bring it in against other fair decks most of the time, because they have too many answers and i'd rather advance my own gameplan in those matchups. Still, cutting it from the board makes the matchups where it's good considerably worse, while any replacement i tried imo doesn't do that much more against the other fair decks.

[cwcomposer]

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [NPH] Dismember
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace



If I wanted to proxy up a GU Titan Post list with no budgetary restrictions, would this be what you'd go for?

[Skriger]

If I wanted to proxy up a GU Titan Post list with no budgetary restrictions, would this be what you'd go for?

It's a great start. Covers most of the G/U concept well. You can tweak this version around slightly with cheap cards to fit your META.

[Neko448]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/506645#online


Look at this bonkers deck. I think I'm going to have to bring this to my weekly...

[Skriger]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/506645#online


Look at this bonkers deck. I think I'm going to have to bring this to my weekly...

I've seen this person's decks get posted here in the past. He has a Green Black version i've wanted to try. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/427019#paper

[k_omega]

Congrats on the top 64. Did you get a feature match at all?


1.) I ended up cutting ghostly prison after EE5 and playing online when I realized it's better to remove creatures than tax them. Likewise, ensnaring bridge is in the same camp; except we usually can't empty our hands fast enough.


I was the backup camera match in round 9 but didn't actually get shown, and had an off-camera feature match in round 2.

I kept Ghostly Prison in my sideboard for FNM today hoping to test against Delver, and I was "pleasantly" surprised to play against Delvers 3 rounds in a row. Ghostly Prison is terrible and I have officially moved it from the sideboard to the trade binder. I think Explore might be a reasonable replacement, as it can be a Time Walk fairly easily and helps get out in front of the soft permission. It is also cheaper and does not require white mana.

I also played 1 Tireless Tracker in place of 1 TKS but boarded it out every round because my opponents all played 4x Bolts. The Promised End, however, continues to impress: bolt yourself, snap-bolt yourself, Thoughtseize yourself, suicide your Delver, Abrupt Decay your TNN...

Ghostly Prison has an interesting interaction with Deathrite Shaman that I didn't know about but that I'm mentioning so that we'll all know it if the world turns upside down and the card becomes good. Because DRS isn't a mana ability, it can't be used to pay the tax since it is paid "as attackers are declared" and does not use the stack. Then because the mana pool empties just before the declare attackers step they can't float the mana in advance. So DRS effectively doesn't count for Ghostly Prison mana.

[Postman]

Went undefeated yesterday in weekly magic with a somewhat standard list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [NPH] Dismember
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace


I've been testing with a heavy trinket mage build and also with this build. i think they are both viable and are simply meta calls.

Matchups were: Eldrazi Aggro (2-1), Tezzerator (2-1), Cephalid Breakfast (2-1), ID. Weird matchups for sure, but the deck still got a good testrun.
List seems interesting, maybe I'll give it a try (right now I'm on BUG version, with Abrupt Decay and Toxic Deluge). But 1 big question: what about Chalice of the Void @1, especially turn 1? Facing this opener really often in the last weeks, and that's the main reason for black and Decay, to be honest...

Gesendet von meinem ONEPLUS A3003 mit Tapatalk

[Skriger]

Could I put a small request in at this moment to help with match reports or when topics are on specific builds? A link or list some place in the comment so it makes it easier to see what you are talking about.

I keep up with the forum but I tend to have to scroll back quite a few pages to see what decklist someone is referring to. A simple link to the page would suffice, just something to make the conversation more efficient as well as help people who don't read through this massive subthread.

[Postman]

Could I put a small request in at this moment to help with match reports or when topics are on specific builds? A link or list some place in the comment so it makes it easier to see what you are talking about.

I keep up with the forum but I tend to have to scroll back quite a few pages to see what decklist someone is referring to. A simple link to the page would suffice, just something to make the conversation more efficient as well as help people who don't read through this massive subthread.

Nice idea. But you won't find my current build, because it's still like a beta - version and therefore I didn't publish it. I asked about Rock Lee's list, and this is has been quoted in the post :wink:

[MechTactical]

I've been trying to put together a FoW list for a long time. I'm currently testing this very rough draft (no land tutors) and i'm having a blast :laugh: i'd really like to include trickbind but i can't find the space...

Any suggestions? is anyone trying to build with FoW nowadays?

Land (24)

4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
4x Glimmerpost
3x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Instant (14)

4x Brainstorm
3x Condescend
4x Force of Will
3x Repeal

Creature (6)

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Planeswalker (3)

1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Artifact (4)

4x Sensei's Divining Top

Sorcery (7)

3x Ponder
4x Show and Tell

Enchantment (2)

2x Omniscience

Sideboard (15)

2x Dismember
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Moment's Peace
2x Surgical Extraction

[Skriger]

Seems like a ton of cantrips for a deck like this. Repeal feels out of place in a build like this. Perhaps replace with Trickbind if you really want to use it. Also personally feel that Ponder doesn't fit the build either. I see you are trying to keep your blue card count up for FoW alt cost, perhaps run Intuition instead of Ponder? If you are liking Omniscience, something like Intuition really would help with that process. This is essentially a mono blue splashing green for Prime Time. You could go more high tide with it and run candles and high tide.

What is the real intent of this build that you are going for? Just for the use of Force of Will?



I've been trying to put together a FoW list for a long time. I'm currently testing this very rough draft (no land tutors) and i'm having a blast :laugh: i'd really like to include trickbind but i can't find the space...

Any suggestions? is anyone trying to build with FoW nowadays?

Land (24)

4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
4x Glimmerpost
3x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Instant (14)

4x Brainstorm
3x Condescend
4x Force of Will
3x Repeal

Creature (6)

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Planeswalker (3)

1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Artifact (4)

4x Sensei's Divining Top

Sorcery (7)

3x Ponder
4x Show and Tell

Enchantment (2)

2x Omniscience

Sideboard (15)

2x Dismember
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Moment's Peace
2x Surgical Extraction

[MechTactical]

Seems like a ton of cantrips for a deck like this. Repeal feels out of place in a build like this. Perhaps replace with Trickbind if you really want to use it. Also personally feel that Ponder doesn't fit the build either. I see you are trying to keep your blue card count up for FoW alt cost, perhaps run Intuition instead of Ponder? If you are liking Omniscience, something like Intuition really would help with that process. This is essentially a mono blue splashing green for Prime Time. You could go more high tide with it and run candles and high tide.

What is the real intent of this build that you are going for? Just for the use of Force of Will?

It's basically just an experiment to see if the deck can run without land tutors. Sacrificing the land utility package for permission. I tried different version and had limited success.
i soon started to miss crop rotation too much and decided to go back to a classical OmniPost build. I'm not entirely certain about running Kozilek (though it works wonders with omni sometimes - i was very disappointed about the interaction between the new kozilek and omni - new kozi would be a great inclusion :cry:). And frankly the one of candle (i own only 1) seems a bit off in this configuration? I feel that force is adequately supported since the omnis add the critical blue count needed. With this config i have been able to consistently use force without any issues, i'm still not sure if i like a full set or just 3. I feel that force is required in an omnipost build. You often don't win on the spot when resolving omni and you need a way to protect yourself. And besides, we have many plays we want to protect crop, SnT, Titan or Ugin. Another bonus is that i feel i don't need cavern of souls... I'm still undecided about ancient tombs. It opens up even more broken plays and with force you can expect to protect your t2 crop - tomb - SnT play in g1. i'm currently testing without it. I've also considered nephalia academy, since this type of build is more vulnerable to discard. I would definitely like to run EE as well. With all the chalices out there it's almost mandatory these days, but i can't find the space with all the blue cards required for force...

Any thoughts?

Land (25)

1x Bojuka Bog
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Instant (15)

4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
3x Force of Will
4x Repeal

Creature (7)

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Sorcery (4)

4x Show and Tell

Planeswalker (2)

2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Artifact (5)

1x Candelabra of Tawnos
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (2)

2x Omniscience

Sideboard (15)

3x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Moment's Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Swan Song
2x Trickbind

[Neko448]

I'm not entirely certain about running Kozilek (though it works wonders with omni sometimes - i was very disappointed about the interaction between the new kozilek and omni - new kozi would be a great inclusion :cry:).

I'm curious what exactly you mean by this. The new Kozilek seems awesome with an omniscience~

[MechTactical]

I'm curious what exactly you mean by this. The new Kozilek seems awesome with an omniscience~

One still needs CC to cast it... This is the main reason why i run the old one. Though the old Kozi with karakas and omni is better (or it would be if the old was playable). With a candle and repeal you can practically mill yourself - fun times

EDIT: friendly reminder for post pilots playing repeal. Don't forget to look-draw-repeal. I feel that this play is one of the best and most consistent plays a repeal deck can offer. So many times i find everything i need. Lately i tend to avoid repealing mediocre threats and just dig...

[Neko448]

One still needs CC to cast it... This is the main reason why i run the old one.

I'm solidly under the impression that omniscience completely forgoes the mana cost in it's entirety. Do you have a source that supports what you believe? I wasn't able to find anything myself.

[MechTactical]

I'm solidly under the impression that omniscience completely forgoes the mana cost in it's entirety. Do you have a source that supports what you believe? I wasn't able to find anything myself.

Well i'm no expert but it says here that:

7/1/2012 If you cast a card “without paying its mana cost,” you can’t pay any alternative costs. You can pay additional costs such as kicker costs. If the card has mandatory additional costs, you must pay those.

i guess CC is mandatory?

[Saab93]

Well i'm no expert but it says here that:

7/1/2012If you cast a card “without paying its mana cost,” you can’t pay any alternative costs. You can pay additional costs such as kicker costs. If the card has mandatory additional costs, you must pay those.

i guess CC is mandatory?

With your reasoning, you would also need to pay double Green to cast Primeval Titan via Omniscience... which doesn't make any sense.

CC is not an alternative cost, just a color requirement for hard casting Kozilek.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Neko448]

Well i'm no expert but it says here that:

7/1/2012 If you cast a card “without paying its mana cost,” you can’t pay any alternative costs. You can pay additional costs such as kicker costs. If the card has mandatory additional costs, you must pay those.

i guess CC is mandatory?

It's just the casting cost, much like Saab's example. Did someone tell you that you couldn't cast Kozi during an event or something?

[mykatdied]

I have been following but not commenting as of late. Is someone suggesting you need 2 colorless mana to actually cast new kozilek through omni? If so that is incorrct. You definitely don't need colorless mana to cast through omni. As for the repeal suggestion if you want to bounce anything with over 0 cmc you need to have mana to do so. Repealing a candel will result in 1U having to be paid. You cannot use omni to repeal a candel.

[MechTactical]

It's just the casting cost, much like Saab's example. Did someone tell you that you couldn't cast Kozi during an event or something?

doesn't work on xmage... so i assumed it was correct :confused: so i can play the new kozi with omni? can someone rule on this? I found this as well:

107.4c The colorless mana symbol {C} is used to represent one colorless mana, and also to represent a cost that can be paid only with one colorless mana

[Saab93]

doesn't work on xmage... so i assumed it was correct :confused: so i can play the new kozi with omni? can someone rule on this? I found this as well:

107.4c The colorless mana symbol {C} is used to represent one colorless mana, and also to represent a cost that can be paid only with one colorless mana

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/oath-gatewatch-mechanics-2015-12-28



To cast Spatial Contortion, you pay two mana: one generic (that's the {1}) and one colorless (that's the {C}). The generic mana cost can be paid with any type of mana—that means any color or colorless. But the {C} is different. That can be paid only with colorless mana. There have been plenty of nonbasic lands over the years that produced colorless mana. This set gives you a more... ubiquitous way of doing it.


http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=288937



You may cast spells from your hand without paying their mana costs.


So, in other words, {C} represents a cost that can be paid only with one colorless mana. Kozilek, the Great Distortion has two such mana symbols in its casting cost. Omniscience allows you to cast spells from your hand without paying their mana costs.

I'm honestly not sure if you're trolling? I feel like this thread had this conversation when the card was first spoiled :eyebrow:.

[Goose]

doesn't work on xmage... so i assumed it was correct :confused: so i can play the new kozi with omni? can someone rule on this? I found this as well:

107.4c The colorless mana symbol {C} is used to represent one colorless mana, and also to represent a cost that can be paid only with one colorless mana

CC is part of the mana cost but Omni allows you to cast without paying the mana cost.
A situation that you might be thinking of is cost reduction. Something like Heartless Summoning for example reduces casting cost by 1. Even if you have the cost reduction effect stacking up to 10 times to make spells cost 10 generic mana less, CC would still have to be paid for Kozilek.

[MechTactical]

Dudes i wasn't trolling. xmage asked me to pay additional CC with omni on the board. I assumed it was correct and just switched for the old kozilek without making any further inquiries. I should have known not to trust xmage on all the rulings. Another bug concerning empirion and STP prevents me from properly testing it online (i don't gain life from STP, which i should, right?). Thanks for the feedback. I guess i have to report this bug and hopefully will be able to properly test the new kozilek in the near future.

[Skriger]

Dudes i wasn't trolling. xmage asked me to pay additional CC with omni on the board. I assumed it was correct and just switched for the old kozilek without making any further inquiries. I should have known not to trust xmage on all the rulings. Another bug concerning empirion and STP prevents me from properly testing it online (i don't gain life from STP, which i should, right?). Thanks for the feedback. I guess i have to report this bug and hopefully will be able to properly test the new kozilek in the near future.

Colorless mana is still just mana, its nothing fancy. Xmage has a bug. Swords to Plowshares would only gain you life if you exile your own creature. If it isn't doing that, then it's a bug as well.

[mykatdied]

If platinum emperion getting hit by swords to Plowshares doesn't gain it's controller life that is definitely a bug. If it said it's controller gains life then removes the creature that would be a different story.

[Saab93]

Has anyone played against turbo depths and/or B/R reanimator? Curious to hear what the match ups are like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mykatdied]

Crop rotation and grafdiggers cage are great. Surgical helps vs BR reanimator a lot.

Turbo Depths is a bit sketchy at times. Using candelabra with Karakas or Maze of ith is generally good enough to beat them. Pithing Needle is very overloaded in this match up. I usually would name thespians stage first then hexmage. Stage first since they have a lot of ways to assemble stage/depths and have to have hexmage for that route to work.

[maCHOOga]

Has anyone played against turbo depths and/or B/R reanimator? Curious to hear what the match ups are like.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a good friend that plays Turbo Depths in paper. Honestly, it depends on your build. If you can stabilize past the first 20/20, you're in good shape. I have had a game where he beat me to death with vampire hexmage(s) after I dealt with 4 marit leiges. Surgical extraction / Crop Rotation x4 is the way to win. Just be mindful sometimes they will just get'cha. You have to play the roll of control deck in this matchup.

B/R Reanimator feels like an awful matchup; possibly the new worst matchup. If they don't know your on Post and go turn 1 ritual -> entomb -> sire -> reanimate; just concede without giving them any information and move to SB games. Rest In Peace / Surgical / Bojuka Bog is the only glimmer of hope. They can also turn 1 bloodmoon, so you also need some enchantment removal. Remember they are very all in, so if you can disrupt their combo; you'll have time to build the end game. Tidespout Tyrannt is the worst card out of the deck; followed by Sire of Insanity.

[MechTactical]

I have a good friend that plays Turbo Depths in paper. Honestly, it depends on your build. If you can stabilize past the first 20/20, you're in good shape. I have had a game where he beat me to death with vampire hexmage(s) after I dealt with 4 marit leiges. Surgical extraction / Crop Rotation x4 is the way to win. Just be mindful sometimes they will just get'cha. You have to play the roll of control deck in this matchup.

B/R Reanimator feels like an awful matchup; possibly the new worst matchup. If they don't know your on Post and go turn 1 ritual -> entomb -> sire -> reanimate; just concede without giving them any information and move to SB games. Rest In Peace / Surgical / Bojuka Bog is the only glimmer of hope. They can also turn 1 bloodmoon, so you also need some enchantment removal. Remember they are very all in, so if you can disrupt their combo; you'll have time to build the end game. Tidespout Tyrannt is the worst card out of the deck; followed by Sire of Insanity.

Repeal wins against depths decks. Trickbind adds a nice edge against depths as well. The only real play turbo depths has against you is a well timed
Not of this World on your repeal and chalice post board.

With the omni lists i'm currently testing i feel comfortable playing against reanimation in general. With crop and force i often get away with a g1 win. it's also easier to play snt against them because u can beat their put in (most likely griselbrand) with an "omni hand". Post board i recommend Swan song, because it beats Animate Dead, blood moon and sneak attack in addition to their other reanimate spells. floating a swan song with top is great against BR.
i completely agree with maCHOOga: Tidespout Tyrannt is the worst card out of the deck
Maybe blazing archon is another threat you have to count on. if you can't get your titan triggers going you can easily lose the game... The only real solutions are ulamog and repeal. Top is great for beating Sire. If they can't follow up on sire u can stick in the game supprisingly long droping glimmers, chasms and more. a revealed Chancellor of the Annex can be solved with force and surgical + fluster post board. if i don't have an answer in hand i tend to play into Chancellor ASAP (something like eot repeal on lotus, i even "discarded" brainstorms).

[caprino]

Hi i test mono green ramp... Main deck 4 cloudpost 4 glimmerpost 4 vesuva 8 forest 1 bojuka borg 1 karakas 1 tabernacle 1 thespian stage 3 maze of ith 1 eye of ugin 4 candelabra 1 crucible 4 expedition map 2 sensei top 1 emrakul old 1 kozilek new 2 ulamog new 4 exploration 3 crop rotation 3 all is dust 4 ancient stirrings 3 explore...side 3 pithing needle 1 ratchet bomb 2 thorn of amethyst 4 mindbreak Trap 2 surgical extraction 3 krosan grip....what do you think? Tips

[Saab93]

Hi i test mono green ramp... Main deck 4 cloudpost 4 glimmerpost 4 vesuva 8 forest 1 bojuka borg 1 karakas 1 tabernacle 1 thespian stage 3 maze of ith 1 eye of ugin 4 candelabra 1 crucible 4 expedition map 2 sensei top 1 emrakul old 1 kozilek new 2 ulamog new 4 exploration 3 crop rotation 3 all is dust 4 ancient stirrings 3 explore...side 3 pithing needle 1 ratchet bomb 2 thorn of amethyst 4 mindbreak Trap 2 surgical extraction 3 krosan grip....what do you think? Tips

Your formatting is bad, and you should feel bad. [emoji58]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dutch253]

How essential is it to play Candelabra? My meta is infested with Miracles and I was considering building 12 Post but just can't justify the cost of Candelabras. Is page 1 of the thread fairly up to date in regards to the core of the deck? I feel like Crop Rotation would be fantastic and I'd want to play it, same with Show and Tell (if you're playing SnT do you really miss Candelabra?). It's just a bit hard to get a feel for what a current deck would look like since I don't think it sees a ton of play (especially in my meta).

[ParkerLewis]

Looking at some lists on tcdecks and I have a few questions :

- Why Trickbind in the main ? I don't get what it's there for ? (Wasteland ?)
- There seems to be very few Ugins in recent lists (0-1). At first view it seems incredibly powerful, able to come down a good turn earlier than an Eldrazi and completely wiping the enemy's board, thus buying you several turns of peace
- What is the reasoning about SDT ? It feels a bit like "we have too much mana in turns 2-3 but still not enough to actually cast something so might as well do some spinning"
- Khalni Garden ?
- I sometimes see a single Oracle of Mul Daya (with or without a way to tutor for it). I understand the potential use of the card (esp with SDT), but why as a singleton ? If it's worth playing, don't you want at least two to have a reasonable chance to see it ?

[MechTactical]

Looking at some lists on tcdecks and I have a few questions :

- Why Trickbind in the main ? I don't get what it's there for ? (Wasteland ?)
- There seems to be very few Ugins in recent lists (0-1). At first view it seems incredibly powerful, able to come down a good turn earlier than an Eldrazi and completely wiping the enemy's board, thus buying you several turns of peace
- What is the reasoning about SDT ? It feels a bit like "we have too much mana in turns 2-3 but still not enough to actually cast something so might as well do some spinning"
- Khalni Garden ?
- I sometimes see a single Oracle of Mul Daya (with or without a way to tutor for it). I understand the potential use of the card (esp with SDT), but why as a singleton ? If it's worth playing, don't you want at least two to have a reasonable chance to see it ?

-trickbind has so many uses. just some that come to mind: wasteland, ghost quarter, storm triggers, miracle triggers, planeswalker - triggers lili, jace, tezzeret, emrakul, can save a land from chasm, can prolong chasm, enemy fetch lands (if u feel u can mana screw them), delver (especially if they set it up), can give u extra time against depths, animate dead, batterskull, thought-knot, knight of the reliquary, can push a spell through chalice of the void, etc. etc. you can "stifle" all sorts of nasty s***. Great all-around card, very good against combo decks. Float one of these puppies on top of your library with a top against storm and u'll soon change your mind. there are a lot of comprehensive posts about trickbind use on this thread...

-ugin can be great, but it has some issues. It can be difficult to resolve, can't be fetched with eye, its almost useless against C decks like eldrazi, it doesn't play with SnT, does little or nothing against most combo decks...

-SDT is the quintessential piece of this deck. Probably the best t1 plays. Its the card that makes this deck consistent. Having access to the top of your library is awesome. use it to smooth out your draws. We have many "dead" cards we don't want to draw. It ensures you hit your land drops, which is key. with shuffle effects you can see A LOT of cards. With repeal you can dig for answers real deep by utilising the old look, draw, repeal play (one of my favourite plays). Don't 4get that multiple tops are also useful. Against combo (like storm, reanimator, ...) you can float an answer (like crop, counter, trickbind, surgical) on top of your library. Note that we don't have too much mana in t2-3!

-never played much with garden. it's good again lili, but i'm guessing it doesn't merit play in the current meta

-never played oracle


How essential is it to play Candelabra? My meta is infested with Miracles and I was considering building 12 Post but just can't justify the cost of Candelabras. Is page 1 of the thread fairly up to date in regards to the core of the deck? I feel like Crop Rotation would be fantastic and I'd want to play it, same with Show and Tell (if you're playing SnT do you really miss Candelabra?). It's just a bit hard to get a feel for what a current deck would look like since I don't think it sees a ton of play (especially in my meta).

unfortunately there is no easy (or cheap) answer to that question. when i started building post i didn't plan on buying one as well. However i soon got my single candelabra. Since then my builds usually include a trinket mage as a "substitute" for the second candle. Now i'm thinking of getting another :wink:
Lately i have been fooling around with an omni build running FoW main and 0 candles 2 keep my blue count up, but i'm not sure i want to take this build to a live event. Note that crop rotation is bad against miracles, i usually board them out...
I think that Rock Lee posted several budget builds some pages ago, maybe check those?

[ParkerLewis]

Re: trickbind, you've simply described the card. If that was reason enough to play it, then all blue decks would play it, yet almost no other deck does that. The only specific use you've mentioned is with Glacial Chasm, but surely that's not what makes it playable 4x MD when it's never the case in any other archetype. Sorry if it has been discussed before - that's the problem with threads hundreds of pages long, they're unsearchable (try searching for trickbind, you'll only get flooded by posts with decklists).

I would make the same comment about SDT. You're just telling me how useful a card SDT is in any deck. Well yeah, and still not every deck plays it, so if it is to be played, there must be an additional specific justification, and in a deck with ~27 lands (ok let's say 25-26 actual mana-producing lands), I'm not sure missing a land drop is exactly to be feared. I don't know, I feel like I'd rather be playing Ponder to get an additional shuffle effect.

[mykatdied]

Re: trickbind, you've simply described the card. If that was reason enough to play it, then all blue decks would play it, yet almost no other deck does that. The only specific use you've mentioned is with Glacial Chasm, but surely that's not what makes it playable 4x MD when it's never the case in any other archetype. Sorry if it has been discussed before - that's the problem with threads hundreds of pages long, they're unsearchable (try searching for trickbind, you'll only get flooded by posts with decklists).

I would make the same comment about SDT. You're just telling me how useful a card SDT is in any deck. Well yeah, and still not every deck plays it, so if it is to be played, there must be an additional specific justification, and in a deck with ~27 lands (ok let's say 25-26 actual mana-producing lands), I'm not sure missing a land drop is exactly to be feared. I don't know, I feel like I'd rather be playing Ponder to get an additional shuffle effect.

Trickbind having split second is extra important to stop an opponent from wasting a post land. If you have stifle they are happy to counter it if you are getting hit with wasteland. If you have stifle over trickbind, chalice of the void shuts that down which is all the more reason to have trickbind at 2 cmc. Another great thing about trickbind is that it cantrips and replacing itself is important to gain tempo into the mid to late game where inevitability takes over in our favor.

Sensei's Divining top plays a role similar to Miracles. We have a lot of cards great at times and terrible at times. Since we are a big mana deck, the 1 mana a turn isn't an issue to smooth out our draws and hit lands drop while not getting stranded on 2-3 mana with cards cmc 8 and up. Top is also great against combo where we can potentially hide the hate card we need and have access to it at instant speed, something ponder sucks at.

Basically everything the previous guy said, with more back story. I am not sure why there was any confusion, but I hope this helps to clarify more for you.

EDIT: And if the reasons to run these cards aren't good enough for you, you can feel free to not play them. Although there is a pretty obvious reason most of us run cards like Top and Trickbind. You don't have to trust our judgement.

[ParkerLewis]

Trickbind having split second is extra important to stop an opponent from wasting a post land. If you have stifle they are happy to counter it if you are getting hit with wasteland. If you have stifle over trickbind, chalice of the void shuts that down which is all the more reason to have trickbind at 2 cmc.

My question is not about Trickbind over Stifle :) It's "why does this deck need a Stifle effect so much more than any other blue decks out there, to the point that it plays 4x MD while other blue decks play 0" ? Maybe the current reasoning is simply "the deck is so bad against Wasteland it desperately needs to prevent it, even with the possibility of playing Crop in response", or maybe not, anyway that's what I want to know.


Another great thing about trickbind is that it cantrips and replacing itself is important to gain tempo into the mid to late game where inevitability takes over in our favor.

What ? How does Trickbind cantrip ?


Sensei's Divining top plays a role similar to Miracles. We have a lot of cards great at times and terrible at times. Since we are a big mana deck, the 1 mana a turn isn't an issue to smooth out our draws and hit lands drop while not getting stranded on 2-3 mana with cards cmc 8 and up.

That's more along my question / point. Yet with 25-26 mana producing lands, plus brainstorms, the probability of getting stranded at 2-3 mana feels really low (to be checked for actual numbers). Also, if the argument is that the deck has quite a bit of situational cards, then that's more of an argument for Ponder for the built-in shuffle effect. It might depend on whether you're playing Expedition Map, if you play it, total shuffle effects might be enough that it's not an issue anymore.


Top is also great against combo where we can potentially hide the hate card we need and have access to it at instant speed

Well, against combo, isn't your goal to have your hate card in your opening hand ? At which point this advantage is nil. So yes, this is an advantage of SDT, but it's more limited than what the sentence may imply. Also this point is completely independant of the deck : we can make 10 sentences saying how SDT is a good card in Legacy, and still, a lot of decks don't play SDT. So obviously that's not reason enough for its inclusion. (the first argument goes in the right direction though)


EDIT: And if the reasons to run these cards aren't good enough for you, you can feel free to not play them. Although there is a pretty obvious reason most of us run cards like Top and Trickbind. You don't have to trust our judgement.

Well, I know. But I can also recognize I've just picked up playtesting the deck, so it's only natural to ask, and that's what I am doing. I'm more than open to being convinced if the arguments are standing.

[MechTactical]

Re: trickbind, you've simply described the card. If that was reason enough to play it, then all blue decks would play it, yet almost no other deck does that. The only specific use you've mentioned is with Glacial Chasm, but surely that's not what makes it playable 4x MD when it's never the case in any other archetype. Sorry if it has been discussed before - that's the problem with threads hundreds of pages long, they're unsearchable (try searching for trickbind, you'll only get flooded by posts with decklists).

I would make the same comment about SDT. You're just telling me how useful a card SDT is in any deck. Well yeah, and still not every deck plays it, so if it is to be played, there must be an additional specific justification, and in a deck with ~27 lands (ok let's say 25-26 actual mana-producing lands), I'm not sure missing a land drop is exactly to be feared. I don't know, I feel like I'd rather be playing Ponder to get an additional shuffle effect.

Play the deck and you will see that the "card description" fits our game plan. The "classic" UG ver. runs 25 lands. 2 lands don't produce mana (one even sacks another land), 2 lands don't produce our colours, 6-7 lands come in tapped, don't think that making the right land drops isn't important... when you will play the deck you'll see that making the right land drops is huge with this deck. And yeah, feel free to run any card :laugh:

[mykatdied]

My question is not about Trickbind over Stifle :) It's "why does this deck need a Stifle effect so much more than any other blue decks out there, to the point that it plays 4x MD while other blue decks play 0" ? Maybe the current reasoning is simply "the deck is so bad against Wasteland it desperately needs to prevent it, even with the possibility of playing Crop in response", or maybe not, anyway that's what I want to know.



What ? How does Trickbind cantrip ?



That's more along my question / point. Yet with 25-26 mana producing lands, plus brainstorms, the probability of getting stranded at 2-3 mana feels really low (to be checked for actual numbers). Also, if the argument is that the deck has quite a bit of situational cards, then that's more of an argument for Ponder for the built-in shuffle effect. It might depend on whether you're playing Expedition Map, if you play it, total shuffle effects might be enough that it's not an issue anymore.



Well, against combo, isn't your goal to have your hate card in your opening hand ? At which point this advantage is nil. So yes, this is an advantage of SDT, but it's more limited than what the sentence may imply. Also this point is completely independant of the deck : we can make 10 sentences saying how SDT is a good card in Legacy, and still, a lot of decks don't play SDT. So obviously that's not reason enough for its inclusion. (the first argument goes in the right direction though)



Well, I know. But I can also recognize I've just picked up playtesting the deck, so it's only natural to ask, and that's what I am doing. I'm more than open to being convinced if the arguments are standing.

1. To clarify since we need our lands for mana, having that effect to shut down wasteland can be important not including the other uses that trickbind can have. It's not a necessary effect, but it is a nice effect to have access to. I guess it is something of flavor to each their own.

2. I confused myself between trickbind which has split second and teferi's response which draws 2. So trickbind does not cantrip, I apologize for the confusion. I was thinking it said to draw a card.

3. It is a cheap card selection option that can continuously provide selection without multiple slots or copies necessary. Having access to cards off the top 3 at any stage in the game can be very important, see point 4.

4. Storm and similar style combo decks run discard which means keeping hate in the opening hand can be worse than not having it. If you are running blue you have the option to use brainstorm to hide the hate and then play top to keep it hidden until necessary.

5. I suppose many of these options can be preference and style dependent. I feel like it is reasonable for each person to try every option and figure out what you like for yourself.

6. If I seemed unfriendly, that was not my intent... Welcome to the deck! :)

[ParkerLewis]

Thanks for the reply. What I'm getting from this is that Trickbind and Top seems only played for lack of something that would better fit the deck (the arguments I'm hearing are all along the lines of "xxx is a great card because reasons that are valid no matter the deck you play them in"). So I'll consider them somewhat open slots for now.

[203995014]

Thanks for the reply. What I'm getting from this is that Trickbind and Top seems only played for lack of something that would better fit the deck (the arguments I'm hearing are all along the lines of "xxx is a great card because reasons that are valid no matter the deck you play them in"). So I'll consider them somewhat open slots for now.

There was once a time where ponder was played back when Treasure Cruise was legal but nothing matches the repeatable power of sensei's divining top. The argument you're making with "xxx is a great card because reasons that are valid no matter the deck you play them in" doesn't even make any sense. That argument applies to just about 90% of cards that see play in the format. "Why does miracles need brainstorm MORE than RUG Delver?" "Why does Shardless BUG need abrupt decay MORE than Maverick?" They are being played because they are good cards in themselves, it doesn't matter how many decks it's good in if it's good in the specific deck you're playing. Sensei's Divining Top happens to be good in this deck, so it will be played in this deck.

The longer the gameplan of the deck, the better Sensei's Divining Top becomes. There's a reason why you see decks like miracles and nic fit play them and not delver or rdw. 12-post falls into the first category (it's a common misconception that 12-post is some turbo ramp belcher deck that falls into the latter). Honestly, there's little else that we can really say. If you're going to ask questions, don't ask them just to validate yourself. In the end, experience is the best teacher and will trump conjecture.

[Skriger]

There was once a time where ponder was played back when Treasure Cruise was legal but nothing matches the repeatable power of sensei's divining top. The argument you're making with "xxx is a great card because reasons that are valid no matter the deck you play them in" doesn't even make any sense. That argument applies to just about 90% of cards that see play in the format. "Why does miracles need brainstorm MORE than RUG Delver?" "Why does Shardless BUG need abrupt decay MORE than Maverick?" They are being played because they are good cards in themselves, it doesn't matter how many decks it's good in if it's good in the specific deck you're playing. Sensei's Divining Top happens to be good in this deck, so it will be played in this deck.

The longer the gameplan of the deck, the better Sensei's Divining Top becomes. There's a reason why you see decks like miracles and nic fit play them and not delver or rdw. 12-post falls into the first category (it's a common misconception that 12-post is some turbo ramp belcher deck that falls into the latter). Honestly, there's little else that we can really say. If you're going to ask questions, don't ask them just to validate yourself. In the end, experience is the best teacher and will trump conjecture.

@ParkerLewis - Guy above is on the right track as well as you are thinking. There really isn't much of other cards that cover that job as well as Divining Top. Closest card would probably be Slyvan Library, but that doesn't get used as much because of the color restriction. Trickbind isn't just a wasteland answer, it fights against a lot of other issues 12-post players deal with, the list is quite large. There is plenty of converstation and experience listed in this forum that covers those questions pretty well I would say. Personally, I don't run Trickbind at the moment. I have in the past and enjoyed it. My meta has changed into which they are not needed as they used to be. I have also tried with Top and hated it, but that is purely my experience. I also run a Bant version with Terminus in the mainboard so Top becomes even more essential for that control aspect.

[maCHOOga]

Looking at some lists on tcdecks and I have a few questions :


- Khalni Garden ?
- I sometimes see a single Oracle of Mul Daya (with or without a way to tutor for it). I understand the potential use of the card (esp with SDT), but why as a singleton ? If it's worth playing, don't you want at least two to have a reasonable chance to see it ?

If Liliana of the Veil is big in your metagame, Khalni Garden is great. Making a plant to allow Primeval Titan to live is amazing.

The Oracle of Mul Daya is only present in the GSZ builds; so that you have a virtual 4 copies of the card. It's been very hit or miss for me. I feel like 75% of the game is a hit (and leads to victory), 20% of the time it is a 1 turn exploration and dies and 5% of the time it fails miserably, you don't hit lands and then it/you die. Also, I play 28-29 lands in my build to increase the % chance to blind flip.

[Saab93]

Took bant post for a spin again after messing around with other decks. Ended up 4-0'ing local weekly.

R1: 2-0 bant deathblade
Game 1: jammed turn 4 prime time expecting it to be dazed, but it resolved and his new Thalia and other creature couldn't race.

Game 2: he never saw white sources and walked 4 creatures into a terminus. That gave me enough time to resolve a prime time and a new Kozilek.

R2: 2-1 storm (ANT)
Game 1: lose because.. well it's game 1 so we basically always lose the first game.

Game 2: Ethersworn Canonist held down the fort and a top deck Gaddock Teeg got there.

Game 3: mulligan to six, keep hand that has tropical island, glimmerpost, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, and other stuff. Scry keeps surgical extraction on top. Opponent doesn't have enough discard to push through three hate pieces, and divining top came through and found me the mana I needed. Floated Flusterstorm on top of deck while I beat down for four damage a turn.

R3: 2-1 predict miracles
Game 1: never really does anything while countering my Show and tells, cavern of souls let's me resolve prime time into Emrakul.

Game 2: I keep an okay hand that has divining top. Opponent force of will's my turn one top, and I don't really do much the rest of the game while I get beaten up by VClique and containment priest. Pretty sure I lost that game on turn one, which is interesting because no one ever counters the top, especially not after keeping a 7 card hand.

Game 3: really intense game. I mulligan a pretty decent hand but had no way to interact with blood moon. 6 card hand included fetches to get basics and Engineered Explosives. EE blows up his blood moon. My life total swings back in forth between 3 angel tokens and glimmer post life gains with prime time triggers. Eventually prime time goes farming, but I get enough lands to exile two angels with new Ulamog which does not resolve. Opponent gets greedy and EOT miracles a second entreat to try and swing for lethal. Flusterstorm saves the day. Green sun into prime time gets me more life and another cloudpost. He also goes farming but his one angel token and snapcaster isn't enough to finish me off. I tutor and cast Emrakul next turn. On my extra turn I swing with Emrakul, and then cast Terminus to clean up his attackers just in case. Re-tutor up Emrakul and that was basically the game.

R4: 2-1 miracle of science (miracles and Omni show love child)
Game 1: we both durdle and set up. His Show and Tell puts in Omniscience and I put in new Kozilek. Unfortunately he grabs Terminus with top and I don't have a six drop to counter it. I scoop once he shows me the ants kill line.

Game 2: he ponders a lot. Brainstorm in response to monastery mentor digs into a Terminus. Next turn miracle Terminus which gets countered. Drop down Gaddock Teeg which I think stopped him from either combo'ing, countering my prime time, or casting Terminus to clean up the board.

Game 3: I mulligan to six and keep a shitty hand with lots of mana issues, but it has Gaddock Teeg and Krosan Grip. Vesuva coping his island lets me dig with brainstorm. Vesuva copying his flooded strand, and then a tropical island found via brainstorm gets me out of my mana issues. Opponent keeps pondering and digging. Critical turn I believe was green sun into Gaddock Teeg, he was going to force it but let's it resolve. End of my turn he tries to send him farming and there's a stack battle of swords -> swan song -> Flusterstorm. I don't have enough mana to pay but I'm pretty okay with getting some cards out of his hand. On my next turn I get him to pitch his Omniscience to force of will in order to counter a prime time. He drops a monastery mentor. The second prime resolves on my following turn. I had eye of ugin in my hand so I grab two cloudposts for pure mana ramp. My life total was high enough he couldn't kill me with non infinite damage from monks. Emrakul wraps up the game.

Overall notes: Winning against storm felt pretty nice for a change. Even though I won against Miracle of science, I still consider it a horrid match up. It's essentially omnishow splashing counter top, some number of Terminii, and mentors in the side.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ParkerLewis]

The argument you're making with "xxx is a great card because reasons that are valid no matter the deck you play them in" doesn't even make any sense. That argument applies to just about 90% of cards that see play in the format. "Why does miracles need brainstorm MORE than RUG Delver?" "Why does Shardless BUG need abrupt decay MORE than Maverick?" They are being played because they are good cards in themselves

Brainstorm is an extremely good card (usually regarded as the best card in Legacy). Yet not all blue decks ought to run it. As a blue deck MUC could have played BS, yet it didn't while Miracles does. That's because some decks can actually make use out of the cards power while others don't. Hence why any argument that applies equally to all decks is not a valid argument to justify a card's inclusion in a deck.


The longer the gameplan of the deck, the better Sensei's Divining Top becomes. There's a reason why you see decks like miracles and nic fit play them and not delver or rdw. 12-post falls into the first category (it's a common misconception that 12-post is some turbo ramp belcher deck that falls into the latter). Honestly, there's little else that we can really say.

There is a misunderstanding here. I merely want to make sure I'm not missing anything before trying things out. I said earlier this was the only possible argument I saw for SDT : basically there are several turns to go through, there's mana the deck doesnt know how to properly use (notice how this definitiely not something that just applies to any random deck), and this explains why Top is the current choice here. If that's a confirmation there's no other hidden benefit / tech (just like I asked for Khalni Garden, and maCHOOga has been kind enough to give me the answer), I'm happy to receive this confirmation.


Trickbind isn't just a wasteland answer, it fights against a lot of other issues 12-post players deal with, the list is quite large. There is plenty of converstation and experience listed in this forum that covers those questions pretty well I would say. Personally, I don't run Trickbind at the moment. I have in the past and enjoyed it. My meta has changed into which they are not needed as they used to be. I have also tried with Top and hated it, but that is purely my experience. I also run a Bant version with Terminus in the mainboard so Top becomes even more essential for that control aspect.

I don't doubt there's discussion on the subject. Unfortunately it's impossible to search a 300 page thread. Any search you make on a card will mostly return hundreds of links to people posting decklists... :) Thanks for the feedback though.


If Liliana of the Veil is big in your metagame, Khalni Garden is great. Making a plant to allow Primeval Titan to live is amazing.

Ok, that's why :)


The Oracle of Mul Daya is only present in the GSZ builds; so that you have a virtual 4 copies of the card. It's been very hit or miss for me. I feel like 75% of the game is a hit (and leads to victory), 20% of the time it is a 1 turn exploration and dies and 5% of the time it fails miserably, you don't hit lands and then it/you die. Also, I play 28-29 lands in my build to increase the % chance to blind flip.

Well, the thing is I definitely saw some as a 1-of in non-GSZ builds, hence my question. But maybe it was just a weird list. thanks for the confirmation.

[Saab93]

I don't really see why we're debating what brainstorm is used for in this deck... It's brainstorm. Ignoring all the other reasons to run brainstorm in legacy, specifically for this deck brainstorm can salvage hands in which you are stuck with an Eldrazi Titan in hand. Although there has been debate with the efficiency in which brainstorm performs in the classic U/G version. I have found the four fetches is not enough to pull off "perfect brainstorms," and while I'm aware there are other ways to shuffle your library (e.g. expedition map, crop rotation), you have to bend over backwards to make it work, which usually means you're not playing optimal lines.

Although if you could splash a third color, increase the number of fetches, and get rid of situational land-spell cards (e.g. bojuka bog, glacial chasm), you'll find the mana base to perform more smoothly, and the scenarios in which you are brainstorm locked decrease.

Also I don't understand why you're under the impression trickbind is a x4 staple. Just because there's a list on tcdecks.net running a full playset does not mean it is a requirement. If you don't like the card, don't run it... There is a plethora of builds and variations in this thread, mainly because the core of the deck isn't that large, but also because in my opinion the deck hasn't really been "solved" yet. Since the core of the deck isn't that large, I don't know if it will ever be.

Khalni Garden is mainly for Liliana, and while I've experimented with it as well, it simply isn't worth it. Are you really going to waste one of the two tutors from Primeval Titan's trigger to get such a silly land over a Cloudpost/Glimmerpost/Vesuva/Eye of Ugin? Just accept that you'll only get one trigger off of Primeval Titan in the face of Liliana, and move on with the game. One trigger from Primeval Titan means the game is probably over for the opponent. They probably have Abrupt Decay rotting in their hand anyways, and in that case you've just "turned on" their removal.

Additionally, this deck can be described as a Combo/Control archetype (albeit the combo part involves attacking with creatures). Guess what other deck is somewhat similar? Miracles. What card do they run? Sensei's Divining Top. Why? To trade early game tempo in order to go over the top of the other decks in the format and crush them with card selection. Not that difficult to see why a deck that isn't trying to combo off in turns 1-3, often has excess mana, and desperately needs colorless card selection would want to run Sensei's Divining Top.

[ParkerLewis]

I don't really see why we're debating what brainstorm is used for in this deck...

No one is debating Bainstorm. It was merely used as an example, independantly of its presence in this deck. If needed, please take the time to read the full sentence and what it was replying to.


Also I don't understand why you're under the impression trickbind is a x4 staple. Just because there's a list on tcdecks.net running a full playset does not mean it is a requirement. If you don't like the card, don't run it... There is a plethora of builds and variations in this thread, mainly because the core of the deck isn't that large, but also because in my opinion the deck hasn't really been "solved" yet. Since the core of the deck isn't that large, I don't know if it will ever be.

As I said, I just picked up the deck. If I see a lot of lists with 4x Trickbind on tcdecks, which makes me dubious, it's not suprising I ask about it. Indeed, the fact that I ask specifcally makes it clear I'm skeptical over the card as-is. I also don't recall claiming it was a staple. BTW, a lot of previous answers were quite adamant about the card. The arguments presented did not convince me so it has not made my list though.


Khalni Garden is mainly for Liliana, and while I've experimented with it as well, it simply isn't worth it. Are you really going to waste one of the two tutors from Primeval Titan's trigger to get such a silly land over a Cloudpost/Glimmerpost/Vesuva/Eye of Ugin?

If you did experiment with it before reaching the conclusion that it wasn't worth it, then surely you should be understanding of others doing the same. Anyhow, I couldn't figure out its intent so I simply asked about it. That's it.


Additionally, this deck can be described as a Combo/Control archetype (albeit the combo part involves attacking with creatures). Guess what other deck is somewhat similar? Miracles. What card do they run? Sensei's Divining Top. Why? To trade early game tempo in order to go over the top of the other decks in the format and crush them with card selection. Not that difficult to see why a deck that isn't trying to combo off in turns 1-3, often has excess mana, and desperately needs colorless card selection would want to run Sensei's Divining Top.

That's basically the point that's already been mentioned since my original question, except specifically using Miracles as an example is... extremely unfortunate, to say the least. Miracles runs Counterbalance and also... Miracle cards. Ignoring that is just... past being wrong and really says a lot. If you're looking for a sensible example, take Imperial Painter.

[Skriger]

Went to a local Legacy tournament this weekend. 54 attendees. I was playing my Bant Post version.
Link to decklist: Bant Turbo Post (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-turbo-post/)
6 rounds with a cut to top 8. I placed 22nd.

First off, my sideboard was a bit odd. Expedition Map in the SB was a useless spot and wish they were Thought Knot Seer after everything was said and done. Second, I am not, by far, perfect at this deck still after 3 years of playing it. Our local meta has been doing some weird changes. For a while it was a ton of combo and delver. This particular event was 9 Death and Taxes and a bunch of random builds. I don't have super detailed notes on my matches but I will try to recall much as possible.

Match 1 - Eldrazi Aggro - WIN 2-0
Game 1: I'm on the draw. Opening hand mostly fetch lands and a cloudpost and a crop rotation. Mulligan to 6, get a Show and Tell, Primeval Titan, brainstorm and 4 lands one being a fetch. He starts off very strong and gets mimic turn one and turn 2 endless one for 4. I draw into a Divining Top and proceed towards lining up for Prime Time show and tell. Turn 3 draw was Emrakul, SnT him in and he scoops.
Game 2: SB:+2 Krosan Grip, +1 Reclamation Sage, +1 Swords to Plowshares, -2 Ugin, -2 Candelabra
I'm on the draw. Almost exact opening hand; Mulligan. Similar setup; primeval titan, divining top, pithing needle a basic forest followed by other lands. I get out needle on wasteland since he had one on the board. He builds up 3 mimics. I'm still running a bit slow and using top to filter down an Ugin and Ulamog. He gets a TKS on the board and hits me for 16, Im at 4 health. A divining top a Terminus to the top and wipe his board. From that point I regulated out by casting a primeval titan and beat him with it while pulling glimmers and clouds to regulate health to normal.

Match 2 - Mentor Miracles - WIN 2-1
Game 1: Decent opening hand, can't remember what was in it. Ended up Show and Tell Emrakul for the win. Opponent had weak start and wasn't able to pull anything decent. Got a Mentor up but I quickly removed with StP.
Game 2: SB: +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Boseiju, +2 Expedition Map, -1 Terminus, -2 Candelabra, -1 Ugin
Opening hand was a Divining Top, 2 fetchlands, Brainstorm, Cloudpost, StP, Song of the Dryads. I keep. He gets counterbalance up quickly but no top. I draw into more post lands. Use the fetches to clear up bad SDT reveals. Opponent gets rolling with 2 Monastery Mentors, I StP one, which he attempts to Counterbalance showing a land so he forces, then Song of the Dryad the other which resolved. Slowly he builds up monks and then Entreets for 2 on miracle. I terminus but he disrupts and wins the match.
Game 3: SB: No change
On the play, very decent opening hand, Boseiju, Show and Tell, Emrakul and lands to back it. I keep. This went very quickly with an uncounterable Emrakul on turn 3.

Match 3 - Mono White Eldrazi variant - LOSS 1-2
Game 1: Show and Tell with Emrakul and lands to produce. He starts slow with a City of Traitors and gets 2 mimics on the field. I get lands up to 3 and just cast SnT to pull Emrakul, he drops an endbringer. His follow up no lands and still stuck with his one City of Traitor, He attacks with everyone, I block and then take my turn attack and he scoops.
Game 2: SB: +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Reclamation Sage, +1 Swords to Plowshares, -2 Ugin, -2 Candelabra
Bad opening hand, mulligan down to 5 cards. Essentially a loss for my build. He plays out very quickly and rolls me with mimics, TKS, and endless one and I had no answers. Card draws were bad no decent answers just lands. He runs me dead.
Game 3: SB: No Change.
Again bad opening hand, mulligan to 6 and its weak but playable. Scry and find a Divining Top so I feel a little more comfortable. He gets chalice running which locked out my brainstorm and crop rotation in hand but top is on the board. He gets Wastelands running and controls the board which wins him the game.

Match 3: Grixis Delver - LOSS 1-2 Streamed: Fire and Dice Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/fadgames/v/105326888?t=3h13m44s)
Game 1: On the Draw, Badly i play turn one top even though I knew he was Grixis Delver. Lose the top. He starts getting his tempo going. I'm getting no colored mana and nothing to cast. I finally get Karakas and attempt to StP but gets forced and he cleans me up.
Game 2: SB: +1 Boseiju, +1 Swords to Plowshares, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Expedition Map, -2 Candelabra, -2 Song of the Dryad, -1 Unknown
Opening hand strong, Turn one Needle on wasteland. Get Boseiju, show and tell Emrakul which soon he scoops.
Game 3: SB: No Change
Opening hand is bad, Ugin and some lands. Mulligan to 6 keep the hand. Scry shows a needle. Tried chasing out a counter with a map. He Wastelands my Glimmer then Surgicals it. Pick up a second needle, cast one and it gets dazed. I get a second Needle and cast calling wasteland. At this point I am playing risky with no mana coverage, resolves. He starts building up Pyromancer army. I do a bad play and pull Boseiju with map even though I was essentially dead, I should of pulled Glacial Chasm or a Tundra. I also used the map to try to blind out a Terminus which worked! but he forces. Almost an awesome flip play. I tried playing a Show and tell with a Savannah which i thought was a Tundra. Bad play with Expedition Map and not checking my board caused me to lose. Funny to watch chat. They said I hid the Savannah with the cloudpost, which is incorrect, Savannah was on top. Overall bad play led to my loss on that match.

Match 4: Death and Taxes - LOSS
Game 1: I'm on play. Good opener with Show and tell, Already knew the player was DnT from scouting earlier in the day. Quick game cleanup with Emrakul out.
Game 2: SB: +1 StP, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Reclamation Sage, +1 Pithing Needle, -1 Ugin, -1 Cavern of Souls, -1 Brainstorm
Bad hand, Mulligan to 5 and still not great but keep because of 3 fetches and a brainstorm and Top. He quickly gets me lockdown with Ports and beats me with serra avenger.
Game 3: SB: No change
Bad hands again mulligan to 5. He has no lands but Aether Vial fixes that. He gets Stoneforge, Serra Avenger, Mom, and Thalia on the board accompanied by Batterskull. I am able to Terminus to restart the clock but I am down to 12 health. He rebuilds with Thalia, and Stoneforge, attaches batterskull to Thalia to start the beating. Get me 2 health, I desperately need another Terminus, I fetch to 1 and find it and resolve miracle on his turn. I start regulating again with Prime Time and Glimmerpost back to around 11. He StP Prime Time, puts me at 17. He is able to lock me out with great port pulls and beats me down again with Serra Avenger.

Match 5: Omnishow - LOSS 0-2
Game 1: I'm on the draw, he drops blood moon then combos off with release the ants very quickly and It puts it into hold by Ulamog but I take 13 damage. Gets Sneak attack and Grisel to win the game.
Game 2: SB: +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Reclamation Sage, +3 Leyline of Sanctity, +1 Pithing Needle, -2 Candelabra, -2 Ugin, -1 Cavern of Souls, -3 Terminus, -1 Brainstorm
Bad plays led to loss here. He gets Blood Moon again. I have Prime Time, krosan grip in hand. I get a basic forest out and he show and tells, I drop Prime Time, (MISS using krosan grip on my primeval trigger) and I pull my cloudpost. He casts Emrakul, i drop krosan on Omniscience to hopefully slow him down. He takes his second turn, I sac everything but Primeval and the forest. Down to 5, I play a plains, attack trigger primeval and pull karakas and a cloudpost. I am hoping for another krosan grip or Song of the dryad to lock down Blood moon and bounce his Emrakul with Karakas. It doesn't come and I lose the match.

Overall, my sideboard was my problem I felt beside my obvious bad plays. My intention with Maps is running Boseiju in the side against force of will decks which typically is our meta. This time around much less of them. Every sideboard, I wish I had TKS instead, would of felt much better against DnT and Sneak and Show. Also a Swan Song in those spots would of been very nice as well.
I really enjoy the bant version with Terminus and StP. This meta makes it very useful and seems to hold it's ground as long as I don't play badly, haha! Song of the Dryads is still been very strong for me. It is my mainboard way of answering non creatures, Vesuva copy allows for some really tasty treats. People question it, but every time I've resolved one, I end up winning by removing something powerful. My favorite is still getting a Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

Comments, suggestions, rants, and praises are always welcomed!

[Skriger]

So I looked at some of the new Spoilers. Right off the bat, Trophy Mage. A overall better version of Trinket Mage with the exact same stats. I really like it! She can dig up Crucible of Worlds, Sphere of Resistance, Crawlspace, Cursed Totem, Defence Grid, Ethersworn Canonist, Phyrexian Revoker, just to name a few.
I really feel this might bring back the mage in the deck. My thought would be to replace a pithing needle (if you run them) with one Crucible to help with Wasteland decks. You can also then run a Canonist in the Sideboard.

[CptHaddock]

So I looked at some of the new Spoilers. Right off the bat, Trophy Mage. A overall better version of Trinket Mage with the exact same stats. I really like it! She can dig up Crucible of Worlds, Sphere of Resistance, Crawlspace, Cursed Totem, Defence Grid, Ethersworn Canonist, Phyrexian Revoker, just to name a few.
I really feel this might bring back the mage in the deck. My thought would be to replace a pithing needle (if you run them) with one Crucible to help with Wasteland decks. You can also then run a Canonist in the Sideboard.

If only she were that good. :frown: She only finds artifacts with exactly a cmc of 3. So the only thing on your list that she can get is Crucible.

[Leshrac82]

So I looked at some of the new Spoilers. Right off the bat, Trophy Mage. A overall better version of Trinket Mage with the exact same stats. I really like it! She can dig up Crucible of Worlds, Sphere of Resistance, Crawlspace, Cursed Totem, Defence Grid, Ethersworn Canonist, Phyrexian Revoker, just to name a few.
I really feel this might bring back the mage in the deck. My thought would be to replace a pithing needle (if you run them) with one Crucible to help with Wasteland decks. You can also then run a Canonist in the Sideboard.

As CptHaddock said, it can only get exactly CMC 3. Could still be playable - when i tried a list with Enlightened Tutor, i wanted to get mostly Crucible, Trinisphere and Ensnaring Bridge. I think with just those 3 cards you have decent options against almost every deck. I'm pretty sure i will try that at some point.

[Skriger]

If only she were that good. :frown: She only finds artifacts with exactly a cmc of 3. So the only thing on your list that she can get is Crucible.

Whoops! yeah totally didn't read it right. Still has some potential. As for the rest of the set, I don't have high hopes for anything decent.

[203995014]

I started screwing around with the idea of having some Miracle boardwipe with the UG version in the form of Devastation Tide earlier. What I found was that this card used to be a 4-of in some old lists from 2012. I'm now wondering why this card fell out of favor to the point where it never became at the very least considered as an option again. Am I overestimating the potential of this card?

[Neko448]

I started screwing around with the idea of having some Miracle boardwipe with the UG version in the form of Devastation Tide earlier. What I found was that this card used to be a 4-of in some old lists from 2012. I'm now wondering why this card fell out of favor to the point where it never became at the very least considered as an option again. Am I overestimating the potential of this card?

I remember I stopped using it because my needles got bounced along with chalices or whatever. That seemed right at the time, but as we're kinda deep in a metagame where mb needle is not as good, we don't often have nonlands in play that aren't top or candle. It would probably be feasible to play 3 copies or so. Having something to buy sometimes a significant bunch of time can be really nice, not to mention how well it can combat cards of many, many types. As an answer, it casts a wide net

[Skriger]

I started screwing around with the idea of having some Miracle boardwipe with the UG version in the form of Devastation Tide earlier. What I found was that this card used to be a 4-of in some old lists from 2012. I'm now wondering why this card fell out of favor to the point where it never became at the very least considered as an option again. Am I overestimating the potential of this card?

Well the version i've been running using Terminus 3-ofs. My meta is very creature heavy so it's been working quite well for me. If you meta calls for more non creature removal, I would say test it out! Brainstorm with Top really helps keep things in order for miracle cards.

[MechTactical]

I started screwing around with the idea of having some Miracle boardwipe with the UG version in the form of Devastation Tide earlier. What I found was that this card used to be a 4-of in some old lists from 2012. I'm now wondering why this card fell out of favor to the point where it never became at the very least considered as an option again. Am I overestimating the potential of this card?

Nice find! Could work well in builds without needles, maps and other permanents you usually don't want to bounce. Currently I'm testing it in the "wacky" omni-build with no permanents under 6 CMC except top.
Obviously it's not strong against combo (except in situations like - bouncing after a resolved Empty the Warrens). I also expected it to work better against eldrazi. I lost a game after bouncing his board (2x mimic 1x endless 1x thought-knot) 3 times before losing. He was able to easily recast his threats with eye of ugin and several sol lands, each time getting the best card in my hand with knot - frustrating. On the other hand i had several great plays against other decks which can be difficult at times, like delver, bug, etc. I feel the card has potential or at the very least it's fun to play.
I wasn't able to find the list you mentioned from 2012 - can you drop a reference please? Can you share your current list?

[203995014]

Nice find! Could work well in builds without needles, maps and other permanents you usually don't want to bounce. Currently I'm testing it in the "wacky" omni-build with no permanents under 6 CMC except top.
Obviously it's not strong against combo (except in situations like - bouncing after a resolved Empty the Warrens). I also expected it to work better against eldrazi. I lost a game after bouncing his board (2x mimic 1x endless 1x thought-knot) 3 times before losing. He was able to easily recast his threats with eye of ugin and several sol lands, each time getting the best card in my hand with knot - frustrating. On the other hand i had several great plays against other decks which can be difficult at times, like delver, bug, etc. I feel the card has potential or at the very least it's fun to play.
I wasn't able to find the list you mentioned from 2012 - can you drop a reference please? Can you share your current list?

Well I don't think playing no permanents is necessarily the way to go. Candelabras aren't even that bad if you hold off on casting them (a very common situation vs abrupt decay) so bouncing them shouldn't be that big of a deal. Sensei's Divining Top is Sensei's Divining Top (plus bouncing it isn't even that bad, though I can imagine situations having to cast it again would be really invasive or difficult).

I was disappointed with the results against eldrazi too, especially because the main reason I wanted to try and include it was as a way to improve the eldrazi matchup while having applications in many others without having to splash. I was finding that I was having color constraints with a 3 color splash way more often than I was comfortable with. I may try going with some number of Moment's Peace but that card feels too narrow to really be a 4-of.

You can look up Devastation Tide Turbo Eldrazi/12-post and you will see some really early pages of this thread where Rock Lee is playing lists with 4 tides and talking about how good they are.

My list isn't really refined, it's pretty much a standard UG 12-post except with Tides and without needles. Also messing with the idea of going back to 4 Show and Tells.

[Skriger]

Well I don't think playing no permanents is necessarily the way to go. Candelabras aren't even that bad if you hold off on casting them (a very common situation vs abrupt decay) so bouncing them shouldn't be that big of a deal. Sensei's Divining Top is Sensei's Divining Top (plus bouncing it isn't even that bad, though I can imagine situations having to cast it again would be really invasive or difficult).

I was disappointed with the results against eldrazi too, especially because the main reason I wanted to try and include it was as a way to improve the eldrazi matchup while having applications in many others without having to splash. I was finding that I was having color constraints with a 3 color splash way more often than I was comfortable with. I may try going with some number of Moment's Peace but that card feels too narrow to really be a 4-of.

You can look up Devastation Tide Turbo Eldrazi/12-post and you will see some really early pages of this thread where Rock Lee is playing lists with 4 tides and talking about how good they are.

My list isn't really refined, it's pretty much a standard UG 12-post except with Tides and without needles. Also messing with the idea of going back to 4 Show and Tells.

This is the reason I like the Bant version for Terminus. Each time a terminus goes off, it's a game changer. Devastating Tide doesn't feel as powerful. If you are running into a lot of non creature permanent issues, then run counterspells or back to more original uses with Perilous Vault or Oblivion Stone for instant speed full board wipe. My alternative is Newlamog recursion. Once he goes off 2 times, they usually scoop since I've blown up their lands and other resources.

What is your biggest concern that you are running into that you feel needs to be dealt with?

[MechTactical]

Well I don't think playing no permanents is necessarily the way to go. Candelabras aren't even that bad if you hold off on casting them (a very common situation vs abrupt decay) so bouncing them shouldn't be that big of a deal. Sensei's Divining Top is Sensei's Divining Top (plus bouncing it isn't even that bad, though I can imagine situations having to cast it again would be really invasive or difficult).

I was disappointed with the results against eldrazi too, especially because the main reason I wanted to try and include it was as a way to improve the eldrazi matchup while having applications in many others without having to splash. I was finding that I was having color constraints with a 3 color splash way more often than I was comfortable with. I may try going with some number of Moment's Peace but that card feels too narrow to really be a 4-of.

You can look up Devastation Tide Turbo Eldrazi/12-post and you will see some really early pages of this thread where Rock Lee is playing lists with 4 tides and talking about how good they are.

My list isn't really refined, it's pretty much a standard UG 12-post except with Tides and without needles. Also messing with the idea of going back to 4 Show and Tells.

My thoughts as well. A nice all-around card that can shore up the eldrazi match-up, without having to splash for another color (which i think is 2 greedy - especially when i'm getting mana screwed running "only" 2 colors - it's basically three colors if you count colorless...) . Sadly, after more testing and more disappointments i think devastation tide falls into the fun2play category. I played a few more games where i thought the card would prove its worth, but instead it just postponed the inevitable. Still I don't want to dismiss the card altogether because i may be misplaying it.

Lately I'm always playing 2-3 MPs in the board. Don't forget that it can help against stuff like burn as well. The last live tournament i played i won against burn mostly because MPs were extremely useful against his monasteries and guides.

[k_omega]

Lately I'm always playing 2-3 MPs in the board. Don't forget that it can help against stuff like burn as well. The last live tournament i played i won against burn mostly because MPs were extremely useful against his monasteries and guides.

I used to play Moment's Peace in Gw for Eldrazi but cut it when I went to a build with StP. I found MP rather unimpressive against Burn because it requires holding up mana and they don't always have a lot of creatures to fog. Do you think your experiences with it are typical, or maybe that the card is better in a U/G build?

[diablo4488]

Hi guys

I need your help/knowledge about the Delver Matchup which i have problems.

MD:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Show and Tell
3 Trickbind
2 Repeal
2 Moment's Peace

4 Expedition Map
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle

SB:
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Surgicial Extraction
2 Hydroblast
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip

I board as following:
-3 Trickbind
-2 Repeal
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Expedition Map

+3 Engineered Explosives
+2 Carpet of Flowers
+2 Flusterstorm

Sometimes i don't like the Moment's Peace because of DRS, otherwise it's great.
How do you approach yourself to this matchup? What is your way to go?
I know it also depends on the Delvervariant (Stifle yes/no, Discard yes/no).

Regards and thanks

[MechTactical]

I used to play Moment's Peace in Gw for Eldrazi but cut it when I went to a build with StP. I found MP rather unimpressive against Burn because it requires holding up mana and they don't always have a lot of creatures to fog. Do you think your experiences with it are typical, or maybe that the card is better in a U/G build?

I was playing a build with only 6 counters in the board. So i wanted to board in as much help as i could. I agree it's situational and depends if they have creatures on the board or not. Nevertheless, MP is much better against burn then cards like candelabra, map (if you are still playing them...) etc. ... When they do have creatures on the board MP can save a whole lotta life. Against burn I usually keep mana up anyway (for crop, counter, etc.), when you see they tapped out (using burn spells to pump swiftspear) you can freely use MP and not get caught by lets say PoP. In general when I'm playing against burn, combo etc. i try to go real low on the mana curve and have as much instant responses as possible shaving off all the slow stuff and stuff that isn't useful in a particular match-up (against burn i keep ulamog and emrakul, droping ugins, candles,... and even titans and SnTs - depending on the SB options available to me in a particular build).


Hi guys

I need your help/knowledge about the Delver Matchup which i have problems.

Sometimes i don't like the Moment's Peace because of DRS, otherwise it's great.
How do you approach yourself to this matchup? What is your way to go?
I know it also depends on the Delvervariant (Stifle yes/no, Discard yes/no).

Regards and thanks

I never board out repeal against delver. Repeal is solid against delver. When i was running EE i never used them against stifle variants, (3 EE might be an overkill in general - i never ran more than 2). Don't forget to activate MP after it is targeted by DRS. Sometimes you want to play MP on their upkeep (after delver trigger, especially if they put a brainstorm on the stack). Keep bojuka and exile their graveyard b4 they cast Gurmag Angler. Bojuka is also good against threshold. Can buy you a lot of time. I usually always use trickbind on their delver triggers if they set it up.
Seems you have a lot of maps - i don't play maps anymore they are 2 slow, suck against combo and are vulnerable against chalice, stifle, etc. I would definitely go down on maps and up on repeal in your build.

[diablo4488]

I never board out repeal against delver. Repeal is solid against delver. When i was running EE i never used them against stifle variants, (3 EE might be an overkill in general - i never ran more than 2). Don't forget to activate MP after it is targeted by DRS. Sometimes you want to play MP on their upkeep (after delver trigger, especially if they put a brainstorm on the stack). Keep bojuka and exile their graveyard b4 they cast Gurmag Angler. Bojuka is also good against threshold. Can buy you a lot of time. I usually always use trickbind on their delver triggers if they set it up.
Seems you have a lot of maps - i don't play maps anymore they are 2 slow, suck against combo and are vulnerable against chalice, stifle, etc. I would definitely go down on maps and up on repeal in your build.

I run 3 EE also because of the higher amount of CotV (T1/2 on 1 just rapes the deck, as Stifle also do).
The mechanics with MP is clear.
Maps neither convinced me like you said...
What do you think about Carpet? I like it so much because it already gives you mana the turn you play it and gives you nice utility the whole game.
I will give your tips a try. Thanks.

[Skriger]

Hi guys

I need your help/knowledge about the Delver Matchup which i have problems.

SB:
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Surgicial Extraction
2 Hydroblast
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip

I board as following:
-3 Trickbind
-2 Repeal
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Expedition Map

+3 Engineered Explosives
+2 Carpet of Flowers
+2 Flusterstorm

Sometimes i don't like the Moment's Peace because of DRS, otherwise it's great.
How do you approach yourself to this matchup? What is your way to go?
I know it also depends on the Delvervariant (Stifle yes/no, Discard yes/no).

Regards and thanks

Problem is my approach is different for each version of Delver. My overall goal is to do everything I can to try to get at least one of my creatures going as quick as possible. This means trying to burn through their counters as much as possible, cannon fodder. My other approach is getting Boseiju out and enabling me to use Show and Tell to win. Last ditch effort is you Get titan out, and pull a glacial chasm to stabilize and build back up with glimmerposts. Hydroblast kills off Pyromancer. Essentially knowing what delver variant you're against is super crucial information.

Without dissecting your decklist, your real decent answers are Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle, Trickbind, Repeal, Bojuka Bog (depending on the version), Hydroblast (depending on the version) Cavern of Souls. If you are able to get any of your creatures out you should be able to win, typically their answer is Liliana if a creature gets on the board. I wouldnt side out Repeal ever, it's an answer for their creatures on the board and even a liliana if it's annoying you enough or will lock you out of a creature on the field. In B/U builds, I don't like Moment's Peace at all, feels too clunky and I rather run a counter or some other toolbox item.
-3 Maps, -2 Moment's Peace, +3 Engineers Explosives and +3 Flusterstorms. That would be my simple Sideboard with your current list.

Now, I have some suggestions and comments on your list. This build feels incomplete. It feels like you are trying to build up from a mono green version to the G/U version. I would suggest stay at the Mono green until you get a complete list that way you have much better matchups.

First off, 2 Cavern of Souls but you are only running Titan and Eldrazi. Why not just run another Vesuva for better toolbox ability?
No Karakas? Why not? This variant needs a way to recur Emrakul to win! Eternal Masters reprint made that sucker only 30 bucks! Sell or Trade that second Cavern and get a Karakas!
I've tried Moment's Peace and haven't liked it. If you run Glacial Chasm, that is your fog effect backed up by Glimmerpost.
Your only permanent removal is Ulamog, Emrakul, and Repeal. 4 cards in the entire deck to delay the opponent. This isn't enough in my opinion. You either run counter magic, being in blue, or mass removal to deal with the battlefield states.
You have no board wipe like answers. Run Ugin, Oblivion Stone, Terminus, or All is Dust. This helps against things like Delver, Eldrazi Stompy, or Death and Taxes who get a lot on the board.
Another decent removal+creature, World Breaker. Has a cast trigger which can't be stopped by delver typically and is great spot removal outside of running Swords to Plowshares.

I keep promoting my build because it seems to be working really well for my meta which is heavy Miracles, DnT, and Delver variants at the moment. Try running the Bant version and see how it plays out for you.

[diablo4488]

Problem is my approach is different for each version of Delver. My overall goal is to do everything I can to try to get at least one of my creatures going as quick as possible. This means trying to burn through their counters as much as possible, cannon fodder. My other approach is getting Boseiju out and enabling me to use Show and Tell to win. Last ditch effort is you Get titan out, and pull a glacial chasm to stabilize and build back up with glimmerposts. Hydroblast kills off Pyromancer. Essentially knowing what delver variant you're against is super crucial information.

Without dissecting your decklist, your real decent answers are Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle, Trickbind, Repeal, Bojuka Bog (depending on the version), Hydroblast (depending on the version) Cavern of Souls. If you are able to get any of your creatures out you should be able to win, typically their answer is Liliana if a creature gets on the board. I wouldnt side out Repeal ever, it's an answer for their creatures on the board and even a liliana if it's annoying you enough or will lock you out of a creature on the field. In B/U builds, I don't like Moment's Peace at all, feels too clunky and I rather run a counter or some other toolbox item.
-3 Maps, -2 Moment's Peace, +3 Engineers Explosives and +3 Flusterstorms. That would be my simple Sideboard with your current list.

Now, I have some suggestions and comments on your list. This build feels incomplete. It feels like you are trying to build up from a mono green version to the G/U version. I would suggest stay at the Mono green until you get a complete list that way you have much better matchups.

First off, 2 Cavern of Souls but you are only running Titan and Eldrazi. Why not just run another Vesuva for better toolbox ability?
No Karakas? Why not? This variant needs a way to recur Emrakul to win! Eternal Masters reprint made that sucker only 30 bucks! Sell or Trade that second Cavern and get a Karakas!
I've tried Moment's Peace and haven't liked it. If you run Glacial Chasm, that is your fog effect backed up by Glimmerpost.
Your only permanent removal is Ulamog, Emrakul, and Repeal. 4 cards in the entire deck to delay the opponent. This isn't enough in my opinion. You either run counter magic, being in blue, or mass removal to deal with the battlefield states.
You have no board wipe like answers. Run Ugin, Oblivion Stone, Terminus, or All is Dust. This helps against things like Delver, Eldrazi Stompy, or Death and Taxes who get a lot on the board.
Another decent removal+creature, World Breaker. Has a cast trigger which can't be stopped by delver typically and is great spot removal outside of running Swords to Plowshares.

I keep promoting my build because it seems to be working really well for my meta which is heavy Miracles, DnT, and Delver variants at the moment. Try running the Bant version and see how it plays out for you.

Thanks for the feedback!
Of course i play Karakas, just forgot it in the post :rolleyes:
For sure it depends on the Delver variant.

To the suggestions:
I personally don't like 2 Vesuva because they come in play tapped (already 6 lands do and 2 which don't produce mana).
Maybe i underestimate this card. I always love to topdeck a Cavern with Titan in Hand.
That is also the reason i don't like Boseju. I prefere to Crop EotT, they will counter it (if they don't do i'm also happy) and play S&T the next turn.

Do you think Glacial Chasm and Glimmerpost is enough MB?
I will add a sweeper instead of the MP's and give it a try.

Actually i don't want to change to another version like Bant or Mono G.
I prefere to stay with this build and tune it/learn it/make the right decisions depending on the gamestate.

Regards

[Skriger]

Thanks for the feedback!
Of course i play Karakas, just forgot it in the post :rolleyes:
For sure it depends on the Delver variant.

To the suggestions:
I personally don't like 2 Vesuva because they come in play tapped (already 6 lands do and 2 which don't produce mana).
Maybe i underestimate this card. I always love to topdeck a Cavern with Titan in Hand.
That is also the reason i don't like Boseju. I prefere to Crop EotT, they will counter it (if they don't do i'm also happy) and play S&T the next turn.

Do you think Glacial Chasm and Glimmerpost is enough MB?
I will add a sweeper instead of the MP's and give it a try.

Actually i don't want to change to another version like Bant or Mono G.
I prefere to stay with this build and tune it/learn it/make the right decisions depending on the gamestate.

Regards

You can always try to Crop Rotation for it at a high cost, But a prime time pulling a glimmer followed by a glacial with some other locus lands on the field is a great move. Really need to keep in mind it's more of a control deck with a nifty ramp finisher than a ramp/combo deck. So a land coming into play tapped shouldn't be a huge issue as long as you have a decent way of controlling the battlefield.

Just remember these are my personal preferences which has worked well for me. I tend to like having a lot of ways of clearing the board then drop a creature for the win. Others like the control magic approach.

[MechTactical]

Oh Dudes i just had the perfect game against omni. i won both games of his SnT - g1 i put in omni and trickbind his emmy trigger. i played titan on my turn and fetched post+eye. on his turn i cropped into karakas and bounced his emmy and trickbind him again. on my turn i could fetch my emmy and win on the spot. G2 was similar. after i countered 3 SnTs i allow him to resolve the last one. By that time i managed to set up a similarly evil hand with trickbind, omni, titan and force. he goes for cunning wish into pyroblast targeting my omni. i force his pyro he flusters in response, i tap my top for a second force and counter the pyroblast. on my turn i draw kozilek with top he draws into ulamog - gg.

[Skriger]

Another legacy event I was in today. Prize was a Mox Jet. Played my Bant list with a change to my sideboard and mainboard. I removed my 2nd Ugin, and replaced with Emrakul, Promised End. I wanted to see if it would help with my bad matchups. Sideboard I removed my ridiculous 2 Expedition Maps and placed 2 Thought-Knot Seers. This paid off very well as you will read in the notes.

Mainboard
4x Brainstorm
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
4x Crop Rotation
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Pithing Needle
1x Plains
4x Primeval Titan
1x Savannah
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Show and Tell
2x Song of the Dryads
2x Swords to Plowshares
3x Terminus
2x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x Vesuva
2x Windswept Heath

Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2x Krosan Grip
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
1x Reclamation Sage
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Swords to Plowshares
2x Thought-Knot Seer

Link to deck @ TappedOut.net (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-turbo-post/)

Players: 15

Match 1: Bye

Match 2: Shardless BUG

Game 1: On the draw. Solid starter hand. Able to regulate the board with cloudpost really fast and drop Ugin, he counters. I follow up with a Emrakul, Promised End and he force of wills it. He has liliana, Shardless Agent, on the board. Emrakul cast trigger gives him an abrupt decay, I use liliana minus to kill his shardless, I then abrupt decay his liliana. He takes his turn and draws into a land, he has no cards in hand. I play out and drop ulamog target his lands and pass turn. He draws into another Shardless Agent, casts and gets a Ancestral vision. Then plays Brainstorm to fix it up, then passes. I attack in with ulamog, trigger goes into play and his deck is very thin and he is at 7 health. I have a karakas up which I bounce ulamog and recast, targeting his lands again and he scoops.

Game 2: -2 Candelabra, +2 Thought-Knot Seer; -2 SnT, +1 Swords, +1 Pithing Needle.
I mulligan to 6 and keep a good starter hand with Terminus and a brainstorm and a Top supported by a fetch, glimmerpost, cloudpost. Scry reveals Pithing Needle. He plays out and drops Deathrite. I take my turn, play out glimmer and play pithing needle calling liliana. I haven't seen any wastelands yet so I wasn't worried. I figured he might of been playing a version without them. He plays out a fetch and drops a ansetral vision. I play Cloudpost and play Top, it resolves! He starts building a board with a tarmogoyf and deathrite. I tuck the Terminus back in with brainstorm and end up clearing the board with it later on. I draw into 2 Thought-Knot Seers and cast them while his hand was empty. I then followed up with a Primeval titan and beat him with the Seers for match win.

Match 3: Turbo Depths

Game 1: Perfect setup hand with Divining top, terminus, crop rotation and supportive lands.
He has the play, turn 2 he gets into the north and a thespian's stage up and running. Turn 3 he enable Depths and creates Marit Lage. I had another Teminus tucked back with Top, I resolve it on his endstep since he main phased Marit Lage. I spin top and find my 3rd Terminus and a Song of the Dryad. I stacked Song of the Dryad and Terminus up front. He gets another Dark Depths on the field, I use Song of the Dryad to lock it down. He follows with a crop rotation and pulls his 3rd Dark Depths and enables it. I wipe him out with the 3rd Terminus I had tucked away. I pull a Vesuva and have a decent mana to possibly enable a Dark Depths manually so I chose to copy his and then start paying into it. That didn't go as planned when I pulled some more cloudpost and a primeval titan. My mana is now ready for Endless Emrakul, I resolve out the combo and win.

Game 2: -2 Candelabra, -1 Ugin, -2 Show and Tell; +3 Surgical Extraction, +1 Swords to Plowshare, +1 Pithing Needle.
He goes more disruptive and Duress me with a follow up Inquisition of Kozilek. I am able to get Pithing Needle calling Thespian's Stage, He goes hexmage route and enables a Marit lage, I use Swords to Plowshares to remove. I am not getting any Surgicals to remove dark depths. I was able to hold him off with hard casting primeval titan, pulling a karakas and cloudpost. I build cloudpost up after one combat primetime trigger and win the game by casting Emrakul, Aeons Torn.

I am now top point on standings.

Match 4: Death and Taxes, we do an automatic draw since we are in the top 4 automatically.

I go to eat and come back to find everyone wanted to split, so I walked away (Technically) the winner! and 200 dollars richer.
Really wish I could of played out the rest of my matches. There was another Turbo Depths player that made top 4 and a BUG Delver and JUND. It would of been interesting matchups.

Overall, I felt I got really good matchups and against people who were very unfamiliar with 12-post which worked to my advantage. It left them not knowing what good moves to do. My sideboard worked wonderfully in this event, Boseiju might come out. It helps against Force of will decks, getting out show and tell usually means a win for me if I drop a creature. Mindrakul is pretty slick! I casted him for 6 during that match, way underestimated his ability to turn a game. I think it's going to stay in my list. Song of the Dryads has really paid off every time I've casted it. It's the only cheap thing in my deck to deal with non creature cards which is very crucial and showed those colors against the turbo depths deck.

As always, comments and suggestions are always welcome!

[diablo4488]

Last Weekend i brought my UG 12-Post list the first time to a tournament.
Finished 2nd after 5 rounds swiss.
I made the proposed changes to the maindeck (see my signature):
-2 Moment's Peace
-1 Map
+2 All ist Dust
+1 Repeal

Round1: D&T (Recruiter build) 1-0
G1: T4 S&T into Titan
G2: Mull to 5, 3 turns no additional land...
G3: T4 All ist Dust into T6 Titan

The matchup is better then i thought (depends hard on D&T sideboard).

Round 2: UR Delver with Wasteland 2-0
G1: Price got me with no Crop in Hand...
G2: T5 S&T into Titan backed up with Flusterstorm
G3: Double EE for boardwipe gave me enough time

Really hard matchup. You have to go aggressive and risk some stuff.

Round 3: Colorless Eldrazi 3-0
G1: He mull to 5, me T3 S&T into Emrakul
G2: Overrun me with Mimic & Smasher
G3: T5 S&T after he taps out for Smasher (i knew he had Wail on his hand)

Again a hard matchup. Depends on TKS and your S&T.

Round 4: Burn 3-1
G1: He mulls to 5 and gets double goblin guide and fireblast...
G2: I grind it out properly with Crop on hand for the right turn for Chasm
G3: He's to fast.

Just take it ...

Round 5: Deathblade 4-1
G1: Grindy game but second Titan, after first gets plowed, sealed the deal
G2: Lingering Souls, Strix and Jitte with FOW backup was enough
G3: Again a grindy game. But as longer the game goes i feel more and more comfortable

One of the easier matchup. Best of his cards are Clique, TS and FOW. The rest is normally to slow.

Overall i'm really happy with the deck and was a lot of fun to play.
Thank you for all the tips in advance.
Map didn't convinced me and i think i will go down to 2.
One of your best ally is the ignorance of your opponent about the deck :)

[macosten]

Greetings (once again, I think); I'm back/finally here, and I'm looking for more feedback on my list after being brought back here by Skirger from Reddit.

Here's my List: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gr-cloudpost/

For those who don't feel like clicking the link, here's my list as it currently is:



Land (27)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Eye of Ugin
3x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
3x Taiga
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Vesuva
2x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills

Planeswalker (2)
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Creature (10)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Veteran Explorer

Artifact (9)
3x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Instant (8)
4x Crop Rotation
2x Kozilek's Return
2x Warping Wail

Sorcery (4)
1x Bonfire of the Damned
3x Green Sun's Zenith


Sideboard (15)
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Krosan Grip
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mindbreak Trap
2x Pyroblast
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Stronghold Gambit
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Warping Wail


Maybeboard (10)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos (Expensive)
1x Cursed Totem (Kinda narrow, but could be good in some metas)
1x Dark Depths (Alternate Wincons are decent)
1x Krosan Grip (Perhaps Sage should be a Grip, but probably not)
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast (Infect)
1x Stronghold Gambit (Red S&T against creature-light decks/reanimator; might be too cute, but I like it so far)
1x Sudden Shock (Anti-Tempo/Infect, but perhaps unneeded)
1x Sylvan Library (Redundant, but maybe good)
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (Even more expensive)
1x Punishing Fire (With Groves, of course)
3x Grove of the Burnwillows (With Fires, of course)
1x Bonfire of the Damned (More? Maybe.)
1x Destructive Revelry (Suggested to me)
1x Hull Breach (Suggested by me as an alternative to the above suggestion)
1x Eidolon of the Great Revel (Suggested to me)
1x Explore (Suggested to me)
1x Grafdigger's Cage (Suggested to me; not sure I agree, but could be good)


...I'm looking for feedback.

[Skriger]

Greetings (once again, I think); I'm back/finally here, and I'm looking for more feedback on my list after being brought back here by Skirger from Reddit.

Here's my List: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gr-cloudpost/

...I'm looking for feedback.


Hey macosten!

Here is the changes I made. Also I changed it a little since Reddit converstation, but not much. I will answer your questions below as well.

Mainboard (60)

Land (26)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
2 Taiga
2 Vesuva
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

Planeswalker (1)
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Creature (8)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Artifact (8)
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Instant (9)
4 Crop Rotation
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Punishing Fire

Sorcery (8)
3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Explore
2 Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
2 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale


I suppose I may as well ask about some of those choices you made - mostly asking for the reasoning behind these:
Why cut all of the maps for Explores? I could easily see cutting one (or perhaps two) for the difference in Explores, but I'm iffy on cutting all of them.
Why so many color-intensive cards? There are many times where I'll find myself with only one colorless source (though it's possible that, with more groves/red sources, those will be less common).
No Warping Wails? At all? It seems like such a flexible card, doing so many different things; it's great in a ton of matchups, and it's probably the card I'm most hesitant on going to zero on, so I'm (again) wondering what the reasoning here is.
Why [[Destructive Revelry]] over, say, [[Hull Breach]] or [[Krosan Grip]]? We don't really care about the damage and Split Second/only one colored mana symbol, so I'm wondering what the rationale is.
Eidolon seems pretty sweet, though again there's the issue of multiple colored symbols in a single card... I'll have to add it to the list of things to test, though. Hopefully Reanimator pushes Storm down for a while, since I feel it's easier to fight that than ANT. :p
Why the Grafdigger's Cage? It shuts off Zenith, and it doesn't seem much better than, say, another Surgical Extraction. I'm, again, wondering what the rationale is. Is it better than, say, Mindbreak Trap/Sphere of Resistance/Ensnaring Bridge?

First off this list is building around Bonfire of the Damned with the typical cloudpost wincon with Emrakul.

Cutting Maps for explores. I've been testing without expedition map and honestly haven't missed them. Every so often they help but they just don't feel right, I also run 2 extra fetches in mine for more shuffling which is one of the major features of Expedition Map. The reasoning is the extra land drop. Running Bonfire of the Damned is going to be pricey if you want it to blow up a decently sized Tarmogoyf so the extra drops will come in handy. Plus your getting a card advantage for doing so.

Warping Wail has been somewhat of a miss for me. Works great against Death and Taxes for removal and can somewhat throw off a Storm player if they don't respond to it but then your feeding into their strategy. But running punishing fire and Bonfire, you don't need another removal card. I've always been on the edge with this one. Most non permanent spells you want to counter end up being instants so it just sits lonely in hand. This is just what I've noticed playing with it but you can try and see how it works for you.

At first I was in the intention of removal with an extra cost to them. I changed my mind and put Krosan Grip back to fight Omiscience, which will be a headache for you.

Eidolon will ruin a Storm players day. It also messes up a lot of other decks in Legacy, it's the reason why burn runs it. Mindbreak Trap does as well but you cannot use it as a regular counter in any other matches since most players wont get to 3 spells per main phase so it's a dead card in your hand since you have no mana to cast it. I personally want to be able to hard cast a Mindbreak trap if I must seems like you can easily have any other card and it would work better. You have potentially 7 mana sources to cast Eidolon which doesn't seem hard at all especially with so much land drop advantage and fetching.

Grafdigger's Cage does shut off GsZ which would be ran in Elves. It also shuts down reanimator and slows down Storm decks. Your GsZ will be useless against those matchups and you need to control the boardstate more than try to go faster than them (which you won't be able to) So you would be boarding out your GsZ for Grafdigger's Cage.

I took out Sneak attack and Stronghold Gambit because those are not strong. If you want to go the Show and Tell type route, build the G/U version. No need to try making the deck too many things. You want it to be great at one thing and not okay at everything.

I also removed Thespian's stage because the choice targets you would use it for mostly have ETB triggers. You want a copy of Bjouka bog, or a glimmerpost. Essentially you would only be changing it over once or twice per match. The best situation is if you have Eye of Ugin out and they try to blow it up. But usually I don't drop the Eye unless I know for a fact I can tutor with it as soon as possible so to not waste the resource. The only other advantage piece would be with Glacial Chasm and you don't have to sac a land but you restart the upkeep cost. Overall, Vesuva feels more stronger than a Stage, unless you put a dark depth in the deck,.

I hope this gave some insight towards a G/R build. Now I've only done some solitare type games and seems okay, I would still prefer White or Blue instead of Red but this is more to help you on the red build than what works best.

[macosten]

Ah, I suppose I should ask this, too: Eidolon or Pyrostatic Pillar (2/2 creature over easier-to-cast)? Which is better? I realize that Eidolon is probably better once it's on the board but it might come down on turn 2 less consistently than Pillar.

[Skriger]

Ah, I suppose I should ask this, too: Eidolon or Pyrostatic Pillar (2/2 creature over easier-to-cast)? Which is better? I realize that Eidolon is probably better once it's on the board but it might come down on turn 2 less consistently than Pillar.

Eidolon of the great Revel is just a Pyrostatic Piller with legs. the ability to attack or block is a nice addition to it. I wouldn't just take my advice as the only option, just my opinion on how the deck runs. And I mentioned before, my sideboard almost changes everytime I play depending if I know what decks im going against or not. I've had tournaments that I saw guys with combo decks so my SB changed to major combo hate.

I have a question for you. Is there a specific reason why G/R over the other builds? I definitely don't mind brewing but as been proven that the other color combinations are overall better than G/R.

[macosten]

It certainly began as more of a pragmatic choice than anything else - it was a little bit of "I have the cards, so I'll play it like this". Seemed better than playing Mono-Green, anyway.

It's possible the splash isn't worth it, but I'm not sure.

[Leshrac82]

Hi macosten! I should probably start playing on xmage again. :wink:

I'm not sure about the specific cards to play in your deck - haven't tested this yet (i played a few games with an older version of your deck, but not really enough for any conclusions). Skrigers version of your deck seems to be very removal heavy. That could work out against creature heavy decks, and the sideboard should help against combo decks. I think there are two big question marks for the deck:
1. Lots of removal. In some matchups these are pretty much dead cards, and in general i don't like much spotremoval (without a good card advantage engine and with so many lands we just can't afford to just 1-for-1 against fair decks).
2. Only Crop Rotation maindeck against combo decks, and not even a fast alternate wincondition. Red doesn't offer many strong sideboard cards against combo decks (and i have my doubts about Eidolon for this deck, we can't really back it up with other aggressive cards), that means even if you have many cards to bring in against combo, i don't think the matchups will be that favorable to make up for an almost unwinnable Game 1. Afaik you always had some problems with Storm, and i don't think this deck has anywhere close to a positive matchup against Storm. Without great sideboard cards you might have to play some better maindeck combo hate. Warping Wail is solid, Trinisphere is also an option imo, or maybe even TKS.

About the advantages of different splashs:

- Mono-Green doesn't have good removal and doesn't have good combo hate. I don't think the higher consistancy can make up for that, i think we need another color.
- Blue offers Show&Tell as a faster alternate wincondition and has good sideboard options against combo decks. Also Brainstorm for better card selection. However, i think UG doesn't have access to good removal and imo more problems against fair decks than other options. You could splash white as a third color to fix that problem, and i think recently some people tried that with some success, like Skriger.
- White offers a solid package of removal and combo hate.
- Black also offers a very solid package of removal and combo hate - i think overall the removal in black is better than in white without a heavy blue splash, Toxic Deluge works without Brainstorm, Terminus doesn't. And right now i really like Collective Brutality - it has replaced Warping Wail in my deck and i think in most situations it's the better card. The combo hate with just discard is probably a little bit worse than white hate cards, but still solid.
- Red offers a lot of removal (although everything is damage-based, that could be a problem), but the combo hate is very questionable. I tried to splash red in my deck a few times, but overall black and white just offered better options for me. If you could make Sneak Attack work that could be another reason to play red.

For me it's between GW and GB, and my own build plays all three colors without any mana problems thanks to Mox Diamonds. I could probably even splash another color (and i'm working on that, but it's not at a stage where i think it's better than my best 3-color options).

[caprino]

Hi, i love turbo eldrazi...help me main deck list and side...my meta is miracle, death and taxes, bug shardless, bug delver, reanimator ecc.. Thanks

[203995014]

Hi macosten! I should probably start playing on xmage again. :wink:

- Blue offers Show&Tell as a faster alternate wincondition and has good sideboard options against combo decks. Also Brainstorm for better card selection. However, i think UG doesn't have access to good removal and imo more problems against fair decks than other options. You could splash white as a third color to fix that problem, and i think recently some people tried that with some success, like Skriger.


The way I think of UG post is with more of a "jack of all trades master of none" sort of deal. Instead of having polarizing matchups with certain archetypes, it aims to equalize them as much as possible to give it a chance in most matchups. The cards that are included in the deck are there because they are versatile. Repeal is dead much less often than Swords or Terminus for example because it can be used to bounce non-creature cards like Blood Moon, can be pitched to Force of Will, can repeal top to dig through deck, etc. Warping Wail is also obviously versatile, killing creatures vs fair decks and serving as protection vs combo. Hell, sometimes it even generates a 1/1 to sac to liliana. Contrary to popular belief, Show and Tell is not actually meant to be an alternate win condition (although sometimes that strategy is employed as a plan C). Rather, that card has multiple uses too, most commonly for punching through counterspells, or to accelerate the game. I have played Show and Tell without anything to put down in my hand before just to try and pave the way for Ugin resolving the following turn for example. There are definitely matchups where it can and should be used as an alternate win condition (Lands, Blood Moon decks, etc.) but to rely on that specific card for winning is generally unrealistic and the game should be played with said assumption. I've even seen people use it as a bad explore which sounds freaking insane but sometimes the situation legitimately calls for it.


Having Terminus is nice and all but the way the deck is designed as a result causes it to sacrifice matchups that I really don't think need to be sacrificed. If I were to go into a local metagame where I know what I am going to be playing against, I might tech in some splash (as with Skriger's meta and Terminus) but if I were to go into a larger tournament I wouldn't feel comfortable with anything other than UG post.

Edit:


Hi, i love turbo eldrazi...help me main deck list and side...my meta is miracle, death and taxes, bug shardless, bug delver, reanimator ecc.. Thanks

This is my current list, I'm still trying to figure out what the best configuration for fighting eldrazi is but it should definitely have game vs. all the decks you listed. Slots I am still messing around with are 4th Warping Wail, 4th Show and Tell, where Glacial Chasm should be in the deck (main side or none), and Nephalia Academy. Also wondering whether I should be slotting in a Candelabra or not. Feel free to make whatever changes you want:

Artifacts:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Creatures:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Nephalia Academy
2 Snow-Covered Island
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva

2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sorcery
4 Show and Tell

Sideboard
4 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Krosan Grip
3 Moment's Peace
1 Glacial Chasm

(The islands are snow-covered b/c there have been 12-post builds in the past that used Into the North and Dark Depths. Hoping this gives people an incentive to play around the Dark Depths combo. I haven't been punished by the snow tag yet. )

[Leshrac82]

The way I think of UG post is with more of a "jack of all trades master of none" sort of deal. Instead of having polarizing matchups with certain archetypes, it aims to equalize them as much as possible to give it a chance in most matchups. The cards that are included in the deck are there because they are versatile. Repeal is dead much less often than Swords or Terminus for example because it can be used to bounce non-creature cards like Blood Moon, can be pitched to Force of Will, can repeal top to dig through deck, etc. Warping Wail is also obviously versatile, killing creatures vs fair decks and serving as protection vs combo. Hell, sometimes it even generates a 1/1 to sac to liliana. Contrary to popular belief, Show and Tell is not actually meant to be an alternate win condition (although sometimes that strategy is employed as a plan C). Rather, that card has multiple uses too, most commonly for punching through counterspells, or to accelerate the game. I have played Show and Tell without anything to put down in my hand before just to try and pave the way for Ugin resolving the following turn for example. There are definitely matchups where it can and should be used as an alternate win condition (Lands, Blood Moon decks, etc.) but to rely on that specific card for winning is generally unrealistic and the game should be played with said assumption. I've even seen people use it as a bad explore which sounds freaking insane but sometimes the situation legitimately calls for it.


Repeal is the only real removal you have in UG, and while it is versatile, it's usually not a permanent answer. You don't have any cheap boardwipes, just Ugin - from my experience, i want my boardwipes to be cheaper than that. And Ugin doesn't help against Eldrazi. (Warping Wail is fine, no argument from my side. But that's available for every deck.)
When i'm talking about alternate winconditions, i mean it this way: Against many decks (most combo decks, Burn, sometimes Delver) you usually don't get the time to cast Primeval Titan and ramp into Eldrazi. You can try to buy some time with different control elements, but overall it's just an advantage to have a way to steal the game. That's why i play Dark Depths - i wouldn't play that in UG, because Show and Tell should do that just fine. For me this would be the most important reason to play Show and Tell. Of course you can also play mindgames with it or use it in a different way.

I'm not that experienced with UG-Post. I tested a lot of different builds to compare them to my own, and out of all the builds i tested, UG was by far the worst for me with a winrate of ~35%, so after ~40 matches i stopped. Maybe this particular build was just bad, but i was very unimpressed (against combo decks it wasn't better than most of the other builds, and against everything else it was just worse). Another reason i didn't like UG was actually Brainstorm: With just 4 fetchlands it's very likely you can't shuffle after a Brainstorm, so it is much worse than in any other blue deck with usually 8-10 fetchlands. It's also dead against Chalice and dead against Countertop.


My removal package in GWB is: 2-3 Toxic Deluge (right now 2/1 split), 1-2 Engineered Explosives (1/1 split right now), 2 Collective Brutality (that was 2 Warping Wail for a long time, i think this is better). Maybe up to 2 other spotremoval spells in the board (Swords to Plowshares and Diabolic Edict are the best candidates - something to deal with the stuff i can't get with Brutality). Toxic Deluge is the boardwipe i want, Explosives is very versatile and Collective Brutality is also versatile and rarely a dead card.

[203995014]

Repeal is the only real removal you have in UG, and while it is versatile, it's usually not a permanent answer.

You're missing the point. The point is that you don't need permanent answers. With the consistency and acceleration tools that are available to the deck (Show and Tell, Brainstorm, even Repeal itself), all that matters is that the game-ending card gets on the field before you die.


You don't have any cheap boardwipes, just Ugin - from my experience, i want my boardwipes to be cheaper than that. And Ugin doesn't help against Eldrazi. (Warping Wail is fine, no argument from my side. But that's available for every deck.)

You're right, Ugin doesn't help against Eldrazi. Of course there are some matchups where I board it out but that's okay. I only have two of him and Brainstorm filters the dude out. I don't actually think of him of a boardwipe as I do think of him as a win condition that needs to be protected anyway.


When i'm talking about alternate winconditions, i mean it this way: Against many decks (most combo decks, Burn, sometimes Delver) you usually don't get the time to cast Primeval Titan and ramp into Eldrazi. You can try to buy some time with different control elements, but overall it's just an advantage to have a way to steal the game. That's why i play Dark Depths - i wouldn't play that in UG, because Show and Tell should do that just fine. For me this would be the most important reason to play Show and Tell. Of course you can also play mindgames with it or use it in a different way.

I'm not disagreeing with that. There are several situations where the deck may transform into a worse Show and Tell deck. You seemed like you were saying that was the primary use of the card and I was explaining that the card's role was far from narrow.


I'm not that experienced with UG-Post. I tested a lot of different builds to compare them to my own, and out of all the builds i tested, UG was by far the worst for me with a winrate of ~35%, so after ~40 matches i stopped. Maybe this particular build was just bad, but i was very unimpressed (against combo decks it wasn't better than most of the other builds, and against everything else it was just worse).

I would imagine that the playstyle of the various 12-post lists are very different. I found myself having a lot of trouble with the mono green version myself. I don't know how to describe actually playing the deck, but I might sum it up as a reactive deck that doesn't start with a plan, tries not to die while it thinks of one, then attempt to execute said plan. Also, never ever feel too comfortable and be prepared to improvise A LOT.

Vs combo the deck makes a radical transformation into a miracle-esque deck. The boarding plan vs different combo decks are very different. Against storm for example, with my decklist the plan would be:

-1 Ulamog
-4 Primeval Titan
-2 Ugin
-3 Needles

+4 Force of Will
+4 Flusterstorm
+2 Krosan Grip

The deck becomes all protection spells and the only win condition left is Emrakul. Use brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top to either find or hide counterspells. Repeal, Krosan Grip and/or Warping Wail to kill or at least stave off problematic cards if that's relevant. Krosan Grip is the worst card to side in, but it's better than the stuff that's being boarded out and it actually has applications in stopping the combo for those that don't expect it (If the storm player casts Lion's Eye Diamond then a ritual, you can destroy the lion's eye diamond in response).

Against Sneak and Tell I would use this boarding plan:

-4 Crop Rotation
-2 Ugin
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Ulamog
-2 Vesuva
-1 Ulamog

+4 Force of Will
+4 Flusterstorm
+3 Krosan Grip

In this matchup I actually would keep Primeval Titan in because the fact that this card and Glimmerpost have ETB triggers can be used to your advantage (putting them in using opponent's show and tell, destroy whatever enchantment they put in while trigger is on stack). I expect very little hand interaction from them so I hoard as much counterspells as possible in my hand and use fetchlands much more aggressively/liberally.


Another reason i didn't like UG was actually Brainstorm: With just 4 fetchlands it's very likely you can't shuffle after a Brainstorm, so it is much worse than in any other blue deck with usually 8-10 fetchlands. It's also dead against Chalice and dead against Countertop

Brainstorm I can actually see, it's a bit of a finicky card. Generally I've been pretty happy with it because it adds so much consistency to games where I don't get the sensei top and allows me to be a bit more reckless (purposely getting top dazed for example). That said, the times where it bricks do tend to stand out.

[Leshrac82]

I would imagine that the playstyle of the various 12-post lists are very different. I found myself having a lot of trouble with the mono green version myself. I don't know how to describe actually playing the deck, but I might sum it up as a reactive deck that doesn't start with a plan, tries not to die while it thinks of one, then attempt to execute said plan. Also, never ever feel too comfortable and be prepared to improvise A LOT.

That's how i tried it, but it's true, this is not the style of deck i'm the most comfortable with. I still think i didn't play that bad, i usually analyze my games and especially decisions i wasn't sure about, and it didn't seem like my play was the reason i lost so much.

My deck works differently than other 12-post decks, and that might be a reason why my results with my build are just better than with every other build, while the few players who try my build are usually not 12-post players and apparantly 12-post players either aren't comfortable with my build or don't think it's good. I'm playing more like a NicFit deck, and i can and do often win without casting any Eldrazi (and i board them out in a decent number of matchups). I like the toolbox style of NicFit. Before i had my own build i tried the NicFit/8-Post hybrid, but then i tried the same approach without the actual NicFit-Engine (and Mox Diamonds instead), that way i had more room for cards i was missing in the hybrid-list, and my results were just better. My game plan changes every game, but it depends on my hand and the matchup, and it's important to recognize the matchup as soon as possible to act accordingly, and that's probably where you could make the most mistakes with my deck (just for example Dark Depths, as that has a similar role to Show&Tell: In some games, i'm allin on Marit Lage. In other games i don't really want to go for it, but it's a good backup plan or might bait out a Wasteland. And in some matchups, Dark Depths reads just as "you can discard this card to mox diamond, never do anything else with it and board it out".).



Vs combo the deck makes a radical transformation into a miracle-esque deck. The boarding plan vs different combo decks are very different. Against storm for example, with my decklist the plan would be:

-1 Ulamog
-4 Primeval Titan
-2 Ugin
-3 Needles

+4 Force of Will
+4 Flusterstorm
+2 Krosan Grip

The deck becomes all protection spells and the only win condition left is Emrakul. Use brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top to either find or hide counterspells. Repeal, Krosan Grip and/or Warping Wail to kill or at least stave off problematic cards if that's relevant. Krosan Grip is the worst card to side in, but it's better than the stuff that's being boarded out and it actually has applications in stopping the combo for those that don't expect it (If the storm player casts Lion's Eye Diamond then a ritual, you can destroy the lion's eye diamond in response).

Against Sneak and Tell I would use this boarding plan:

-4 Crop Rotation
-2 Ugin
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Ulamog
-2 Vesuva
-1 Ulamog

+4 Force of Will
+4 Flusterstorm
+3 Krosan Grip

In this matchup I actually would keep Primeval Titan in because the fact that this card and Glimmerpost have ETB triggers can be used to your advantage (putting them in using opponent's show and tell, destroy whatever enchantment they put in while trigger is on stack). I expect very little hand interaction from them so I hoard as much counterspells as possible in my hand and use fetchlands much more aggressively/liberally.


I have the same general idea (boarding out most win conditions and trying to play the control game), although my specific sideboard strategy with this deck would need some work. The card choices are different, but i play a similar style with my deck in these matchups. The most problems with sideboarding with UG i had probably because of Show&Tell: On the one hand, i want a fast alternate win condition - but on the other hand, if i board out most of my creatures, it's getting a lot worse. I never have that problem with Dark Depths in my deck (against Storm i leave in Crop Rotations that work as a wincondition with Dark Depths, against Sneak&Show i board out both, because i want Titans and Eldrazi, and because they often play Blood Moon).

If i ever try UG again, i will keep that in mind.





Brainstorm I can actually see, it's a bit of a finicky card. Generally I've been pretty happy with it because it adds so much consistency to games where I don't get the sensei top and allows me to be a bit more reckless (purposely getting top dazed for example). That said, the times where it bricks do tend to stand out.

For a short time, i tried adding Brainstorm into my own build (going from Gwb to Gwu). It was horrible, after ~15 matches i started to board out Brainstorm and then i stopped the experiment. One big strength of my build is the lack of one-drops (right now i'm counting 2 Top, 3 Crop Rotations and 1 Deathrite in my mainboard), adding another 4 one-drops hurt the deck a lot, because there are so many decks that punish one-drops with Chalice or CounterTop. That doesn't mean UG should start cutting Brainstorms, but maybe this is actually something to consider if you are playing just 4 fetchlands and no Expedition Maps and no other way to shuffle (i don't really want to count Crop Rotation, using that just to shuffle is usually too risky).

[djxstream]

And right now i really like Collective Brutality - it has replaced Warping Wail in my deck and i think in most situations it's the better card.

Any other changes to the last list you posted? I'm a big fan of that build.

[Leshrac82]

Any other changes to the last list you posted? I'm a big fan of that build.

It's the only change i'm pretty sure about, but i tried a lot of things:

1. I'm trying the list without Maze of Ith and most likely with another fetchland instead. But not sure if this is good. (I wanted to try a 4-color build and that needed this cut. Not sure if this is good in the 3-color build, but i want to try it to get better mana, and i want to see if i really need the Maze - i'm not searching for it very often.)
2. I can't really decide on the number of Trackers and Knights. (My 4-color build has just 2/1, in my 3-color build i play 3 Trackers and can't decide if i want 1 or 2 Knights.) The second Knight is often useful in some harder matchups - it's not that good against Miracles or DnT, but those are good matchups anyway. I might even try a build with 3 Knights at some point just to see its effect on different matchups even better, but i doubt going higher than 2 is good.
3. I'm trying to play just 2 Crop Rotations and instead 1 Engineered Explosives maindeck. (Always liked the Explosives main, don't want to cut the Toxic Deluges again, and there are a decent number of matchups where i cut the Crop Rotations postboard anyway. But it comes at a cost. If i play the 2nd Knight, cutting the 3rd Crop Rotation might be easier.)
4. Went down to 2 Grapple again because there is just not enough room. Might be wrong though, i will probably try lists with 3 or even 4 again.

I tried some different things that didn't work out:
- Swords to Plowshares maindeck: Not flexible enough, too often dead.
- Abrupt Decay maindeck: Still too unflexible, also often not the right mana to cast it on time.
- Thoughtseize maindeck: Just not good enough against fair decks and a dead draw lategame.
- More spotremoval maindeck (a mix of Wail, Brutality, Swords and Decay, up to 6 spells at most): Too many dead cards, no matter how i combined it, the results were clearly worse than before.
- No spotremoval at all: Better than the other option, but i still think 2 spells like Brutality or Wail are better than this.
- New Nissa as a Planeswalker with interesting abilities: Not horrible, but doesn't help with the bad matchups.
- New Sigarda (big flyer and also hexproof for me, very helpful against Liliana and if i get her into play fast enough against Storm): i actually liked her more than i thought with a card that doesn't even see much play in Standard - but probably still not good enough

Collective Brutality instead of Warping Wail needs probably more testing too. At first i tried it as additional removal, just like several other options, and Brutality was better than everything else. Took me a while to try it instead of Wail when i realized the list with both might have too much removal. So far i like it a lot - still good in the same situations, but Brutality can kill a few more relevant things (flipped Delver, New Thalia, Magus of the Moon), can proactively get rid of the same cards i could counter otherwise and also hit instants and get information, occasionally you can escalate it and do both (not the default for this deck, but it's not that rare to have useless cards left in hand to discard). And in some very rare cases it can be just the needed lifegain and/or damage. Biggest problem is the sorcery speed compared to Warping Wail, i still think it's slightly better.

The sideboard is always going through some changes. Recently i'm trying to play more removal instead of Ensnaring Bridge (maybe another Toxic Deluge, maybe 1-2 Swords to Plowshares, maybe 1 Maelstrom Pulse), but i'm not sold on that yet - with Show&Tell going up in numbers it's probably not the best timing for that. (I think Bridge is strong against Show&Tell, Lands/Turbo-Depths and Eldrazi. Against other fair decks, removal is probably better. Against Eldrazi my testing suggests removal might be just as good (especially Toxic Deluge). Against Lands or Depths, the right removal (Swords to Plowshares, or possibly Diabolic Edict or Blessed Alliance) might be just as good. Against Show&Tell, Bridge is clearly stronger, and this is already imo one of my worst matchups, especially if they play Omniscience. So wether this change is good depends on how many Show&Tell decks you expect and how many fair decks you expect.)

The 4-color list i'm trying plays Atraxa and Leovold maindeck as additional GSZ-targets (and a single Flusterstorm in the board). Both cards are clearly powerful but also very hard to cast in a 12-post shell. Leovold is already played in other decks, just a solid hatebear. Atraxa is very strong against Delver, she does everything i want in a silver bullet against the different Delver decks. But so far i'm not convinced the resulting list is better than the 3-color list (or rather, i think it's probably worse - but in my testing it's not that much worse to give up on it already).

[cwcomposer]

I played Magic last night for the first time in almost five months (work keeps me too busy at night). I tried out a pretty standard blue-green list. I lost every game. Maybe I just need more practice, but I fear I've learned that, like in Modern, I'm just not a blue mage. I didn't even have fun.

Alluren (a deck new to me) combo'ed and crushed me by turn three both games. Jund shredded my hand by turn three then slammed Lilliana and 'Goyf. UR Delver / Stormchaser Mage / Price of Progress was too fast for me to stabilize.

I cast about three spells all night. I missed a ton of land drops. I did not have fun at all.

I guess it's back to "mono"-green for me... of course, I probably won't be able to play Legacy again until SCG Worcester in April... ugh.

PS Sorry for the sad rant.

[Skriger]

New spoiled card. Feelings on the new artifact?

Paradox Engine (http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/paradoxengine.html)

Too gimmicky? I am thinking in the concept of Amulet of Vigor/ Candelabra type effect. I imagine having this out, tap locus lands, Tutor with eye of ugin, casting something simple like brainstorm, untapping all lands, re-tutor with eye of Ugin, cast again, keep mana floating and re-tutor for the win. This turns every single card in the deck into a pretty decent mana accelerator.

Perhaps it would work a lot better in the MUD builds that don't / can't run Metalworkers.

[Artemis]

New spoiled card. Feelings on the new artifact?

Paradox Engine (http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/paradoxengine.html)

Too gimmicky? I am thinking in the concept of Amulet of Vigor/ Candelabra type effect. I imagine having this out, tap locus lands, Tutor with eye of ugin, casting something simple like brainstorm, untapping all lands, re-tutor with eye of Ugin, cast again, keep mana floating and re-tutor for the win. This turns every single card in the deck into a pretty decent mana accelerator.

Perhaps it would work a lot better in the MUD builds that don't / can't run Metalworkers.

Paradox Engine only untaps non-land permanents.
A card that could be considered from Kaladesh is Planar Bridge (http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/planarbridge.jpg), but maybe it is too expensive and we already have Eye of Ugin (wich can be tutored) Planar Bridge can't.

[Skriger]

Paradox Engine only untaps non-land permanents.
A card that could be considered from Kaladesh is Planar Bridge (http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/planarbridge.jpg), but maybe it is too expensive and we already have Eye of Ugin (wich can be tutored) Planar Bridge can't.

Silly me, apparently I cannot read. Nevermind on that one. So this would fit much more into a MUD build working their alternate manabase.

I felt the same way with Planar Bridge. It's just too expensive I feel.

[Harrison5371]

I've spent the last few months lurking on this thread, and I've been slowly building into my own Bant Post list. At the moment, I'm running this for the GP tomorrow. Feedback welcome!

4x Glimmerpost
4x Cloudpost
4x Tropical Island
3x Windswept Heath
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Vesuva
1x Savannah
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Maze of Ith
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Plains

4x Primeval Titan
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
3x Terminus
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Pithing Needle
2x Trinket Mage
2x Show and Tell
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Expedition Map
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Moment's Peace
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

SB:
3x Trinisphere
3x Flusterstorm
2x Krosan Grip
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Moment's Peace
1x Swords to Plowshare

[Skriger]

I've spent the last few months lurking on this thread, and I've been slowly building into my own Bant Post list. At the moment, I'm running this for the GP tomorrow. Feedback welcome!

4x Glimmerpost
4x Cloudpost
4x Tropical Island
3x Windswept Heath
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Vesuva
1x Savannah
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Maze of Ith
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Plains

4x Primeval Titan
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
3x Terminus
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Pithing Needle
2x Trinket Mage
2x Show and Tell
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Expedition Map
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Moment's Peace
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

SB:
3x Trinisphere
3x Flusterstorm
2x Krosan Grip
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Moment's Peace
1x Swords to Plowshare


Interesting list! Can't wait to hear how it goes. I am curious though on a few choices you made. Moment's Peace even though you are running Terminus and Swords to Plowshares? Feels like a lot of creature hate. Also the Thespian's Stage always felt odd without Dark Depths, personal opinion but I would like to hear your point of view for it to be in this 75. Also feel like pulling the Plains out for a Tundra would really help balance that mana base.

Let us know how it goes!

[Harrison5371]

Interesting list! Can't wait to hear how it goes. I am curious though on a few choices you made. Moment's Peace even though you are running Terminus and Swords to Plowshares? Feels like a lot of creature hate. Also the Thespian's Stage always felt odd without Dark Depths, personal opinion but I would like to hear your point of view for it to be in this 75. Also feel like pulling the Plains out for a Tundra would really help balance that mana base.

Let us know how it goes!

Hello! Didn't do well but it felt like me more than the deck. Moment's Peace was added for a way to stall through a large mana play, when i didn't have access to white, or to allow me to protect an attacking titan. I was using it as a catch all, after the event tho, I can say its not needed. Thespian's Stage delivered. I like it as a flexible land. A lot of times it can come in and become another colored source the next turn, then into a post, or glacial chasm etc. And in some of those cases I don't want to trigger ETB. I don't think its really an "important" card, but I was never upset about having it. Not to mention, its not so dead in hand as Vesuva in your opening hand. Tundra was a budget issue, but completely agree! Swords and Map kind of seemed a let down all day. If anything I could see changing the island for a tundra, dropping the moment's peace, swords, and map. the rest of the list felt pretty good tho!

[Skriger]

Hello! Didn't do well but it felt like me more than the deck. Moment's Peace was added for a way to stall through a large mana play, when i didn't have access to white, or to allow me to protect an attacking titan. I was using it as a catch all, after the event tho, I can say its not needed. Thespian's Stage delivered. I like it as a flexible land. A lot of times it can come in and become another colored source the next turn, then into a post, or glacial chasm etc. And in some of those cases I don't want to trigger ETB. I don't think its really an "important" card, but I was never upset about having it. Not to mention, its not so dead in hand as Vesuva in your opening hand. Tundra was a budget issue, but completely agree! Swords and Map kind of seemed a let down all day. If anything I could see changing the island for a tundra, dropping the moment's peace, swords, and map. the rest of the list felt pretty good tho!

What about your Sideboard? Did it seems to help a lot in matches? Was there any dead SB cards you just never found a spot for? Do recall the decks you played?

[Harrison5371]

What about your Sideboard? Did it seems to help a lot in matches? Was there any dead SB cards you just never found a spot for? Do recall the decks you played?

I played vs eldrazi, shardless, miracles, bug delver, shardless, maverick, ur delver, and infect

i didnt play against several matchups, but I feel like a 3rd krosan grip is really almost mandatory. The moment's peace was like i said earlier, not very good, and i would consider replacing the STP in the side (and 2 in the main) with Dismember (to play around chalice). So Sideboard in my opinion would be:

3x Trinisphere
3x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dismember

EDIT: I've only been listing 13 of my sideboard the whole time >.> also running 2 leylines of sanctity

[Skriger]

I played vs eldrazi, shardless, miracles, bug delver, shardless, maverick, ur delver, and infect

i didnt play against several matchups, but I feel like a 3rd krosan grip is really almost mandatory. The moment's peace was like i said earlier, not very good, and i would consider replacing the STP in the side (and 2 in the main) with Dismember (to play around chalice). So Sideboard in my opinion would be:

3x Trinisphere
3x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dismember

EDIT: I've only been listing 13 of my sideboard the whole time >.> also running 2 leylines of sanctity

I did a smaller local tourny over the weekend and almost came up with the same sideboard. I used to run a reclamation Sage and 2 Krosan Grips but i think I am going back to 3. The idea was against Vial builds to have a body and not worry about the split second. Your matchup against Omnitell is pretty bad so Krosan Grip with Prime Time in hand as they S&T is the only real decent solution to win. I like the idea of Dismember to skirt around a Chalice, problem is that it's not enough I feel. Nowadays, it's mainly because of Eldrazi and typically they would have a few creatures on board in which you lose 4 life as well as get hit by the remaining creatures.

[Skriger]

I have been bouncing the idea to remove Ugin from my list. He is only a one of, and almost every game he was in hand, I wasn't able to get him out for multiple reasons. My list is a bit more S&T heavy and has some decent removal it feels like already. Either I would mainboard Tabernacle or find another singleton to take it's place like Green Sun's Zenith. Anyone else that runs, or has ran, Ugin run into odd issues with his success? It used to be a great board wipe and board control state. Just feels like a heavy card in hand now a days when I draw into him.

**EDIT** Figured a decent singleton, Omniscience! Haha,

[Harrison5371]

I did a smaller local tourny over the weekend and almost came up with the same sideboard. I used to run a reclamation Sage and 2 Krosan Grips but i think I am going back to 3. The idea was against Vial builds to have a body and not worry about the split second. Your matchup against Omnitell is pretty bad so Krosan Grip with Prime Time in hand as they S&T is the only real decent solution to win. I like the idea of Dismember to skirt around a Chalice, problem is that it's not enough I feel. Nowadays, it's mainly because of Eldrazi and typically they would have a few creatures on board in which you lose 4 life as well as get hit by the remaining creatures.

I think the split second in legacy is too important for krosan grip to be replaced. As far as the Eldrazi matchup, I think you really just have to be able to sweep the board, STP is better than Dismember in that situation, but really, even then, the problem is the quantity. I've also noticed that Maze of Ith is quickly becoming my go too for "single target removal". It may be inexperience with the deck, but several times having 2 or 3 maze of Ith's with Vesuva help clear the way to win. I'm thinking of maybe putting a second into the main board.

[maCHOOga]

I haven't seen much activity to this thread regarding Aether Revolt, but I would like to discuss a new card from the set with an ability that hasn't existed in the game in green.

Heroic Intervention 1G
Instant
Permanents you control gain hexproof and indestructible until end of turn.

- The closest thing we've had to this card is Teferri's Response, which I did play SB as a two of.
- It's a two mana answer to a wasteland that keeps your land alive and puts their wasteland in the graveyard.
- It's in the base color.
- It's a blowout potential to a removal spell on a resolved primeval titan (assuming you have 1G available).
- It counters Armageddon, From the Ashes and Ruination. Sorry Cataclysm, you still get us!
- Stops all artifact removal except for krosan grip.

The question as always: is this worth the sideboard slots?

I'm more excited to try it out in modern tron, since the way that deck often loses to a multitude flavor of land destruction and this card counter's it all. Also one-sided oblivion stones are a new level of obnoxious.

[Skriger]

I haven't seen much activity to this thread regarding Aether Revolt, but I would like to discuss a new card from the set with an ability that hasn't existed in the game in green.

Heroic Intervention 1G
Instant
Permanents you control gain hexproof and indestructible until end of turn.

- The closest thing we've had to this card is Teferri's Response, which I did play SB as a two of.
- It's a two mana answer to a wasteland that keeps your land alive and puts their wasteland in the graveyard.
- It's in the base color.
- It's a blowout potential to a removal spell on a resolved primeval titan (assuming you have 1G available).
- It counters Armageddon, From the Ashes and Ruination. Sorry Cataclysm, you still get us!
- Stops all artifact removal except for krosan grip.

The question as always: is this worth the sideboard slots?

I'm more excited to try it out in modern tron, since the way that deck often loses to a multitude flavor of land destruction and this card counter's it all. Also one-sided oblivion stones are a new level of obnoxious.

I was just looking over the full spoiler trying to beef up my sideboard for GP San Jose and thought about the potential of this card. Definitely helps against Wasteland decks. Typically though they are popping those very early so unless you are on the play, doesn't feel solid enough for SB for that reason. Stops Maelstrom Pulse and Armageddon. Though I usually only run into Maelstrom Pulse in jund or 4c Loam. Armageddon is typically in what, Miracles? All of those types of worries makes me rather just run a normal counter option like Disallow which is new as well.

A friend and I were talking about if we really could make voidslime work as a good toolbox, then they spoiled Disallow and got me thinking more about it. I feel its stronger than using Warping Wail. You lose the chump blocker ability but that's fine when you can just counter the creature in the first place.

FYI for people that don't know the card.
http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/disallow.jpg
Disallow 1UU
Instant
Counter target spell, activated ability, or triggered ability. (Mana abilities can't be targeted.)

Now to weigh Teferi's Response; Heroic Intervention; and Disallow.
Teferi's Response: Pro - is that it blows up Rishadan Port. That sounds fantastic. Cons, very situational. horrible against loam decks. No other matchups other than wasteland heavy decks.
Heroic Intervention: Pro - Great blanket removal prevention, could pair with nevinyrral's disk or oblivion stone. Cons - Doesn't stop Council's Judgement. Doesn't stop Annihilator trigger.
Disallow: Pro - Non situational counterspell! Stops most abilities you need to prevent (Wasteland, Annihilator, Charbelcher, Grindstone, etc). Cons - Double blue mana cost making it a slow counterspell, not efficient against storm.

These cards are definitely something to test with and see how they perform under real pressure.

[Cyborg]

What do you guys think about running this guy and a toolbox package of sorts? I'm trying to figure out what I would actually want to run right now.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/128/687/200/283/636191218961686110.png

[hymnyou]

Disallow sucks for the deck, double blue is a bad stretch. Planar standard card may be worth testing but eye already pretty much does what you need planar to do and its tutor-able.
Little bit of testing I've done with Blessed Alliance and Terminus are successful, cards are really good for post in the current meta.

26
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Tropical Island
3x Windswept Heath
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Vesuva
1x Tundra
1x Savannah
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
2x Maze of Ith
1x Island
1x Forest

34
4x Primeval Titan
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
4x Terminus
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Pithing Needle
1x Trinket Mage
4x Show and Tell
1x Expedition Map
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Endbringer
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

---

15
2x Maze of ith
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x EExplosives
1x Spell Pierce
1x Flusterstorm
1x Natural State
1x Krosan Grip
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Blessed alliance
1x Cavern of souls

[caw_86]

gp louisville came and went for me, ended up 6-3, 10-5. only lost one round to a play mistake, well technically 2 if you count jamming a show and tell into sneak and show doing a miracles impression, that did not end so well for me.

the list, was pretty much the same as the last one i posted that i won an IQ with, except i uped the show and tell to 4, i just felt like getting titan into play as soon as possible was the best thing the deck has going. just had to shave a card or 2 here and there to fit them, i think i cut 1 worldbreaker and one map

my board unfortunately was the exact same, i forgot to bring my sideboard box and due to some snow in dallas we missed our flight out so we flew to chicago and drove from there to louisville, arringing at 5am. Was a bit to tired to think of what i would change. in hindsight, i would cut the thragtusks for 2 surgicals, i never did get to resolve on against delver. but everything else i was happy with. there were a few occasions that i was short colorless mana to cast warping wail, but i would have lost those games anyway. only thing i could think of was adding an ancient tomb or 2 but felt the lifeloss was to great.

was a bit sad i didnt get to crush any miracles all weekend.


// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Island
1 [IA] forest
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Khalni Garden
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [AVR] cavern of souls

// Creatures


4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Ceaseless hunger
1 [OGW] Worldbreaker
1 [5DN] trinket mage



// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [5E] Brainstorm
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of tawnos
4 [US] Show and Tell
1 [SoK] Pithing Needle
2 [ODY] moment's peace



// Sideboard
SB: 1 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 1 [5DN] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [M13] Thragtusk
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan grip
SB: 1 [FS] Venser, shaper savant



W 1-0 death and taxes
W 2-0 infect
W 3-0 grixis delver
L 3-1 sneak and show(oopsies)
W 4-1 mono red painter
W 5-1 sneak and show
L 5-2 grixis delver
W 6-2 UB reanimator
L 6-3 4c delver

W 7-3 no show
L 7-4 UB reanimator
W 8-4 Eldrazi
L 8-5 bug delver
W 9-5 burn
W 10-5 burn

[Skriger]

Planar Bridge is odd. You already have Eye of Ugin and SnT. It would fit into a MUD deck pretty well in my opinion.

[Cyborg]

yeah I don't think it would be good on second glance but it was the only other thing from the set that seemed reasonableish.

[Skriger]

W 1-0 death and taxes
W 2-0 infect
W 3-0 grixis delver
L 3-1 sneak and show(oopsies)
W 4-1 mono red painter
W 5-1 sneak and show
L 5-2 grixis delver
W 6-2 UB reanimator
L 6-3 4c delver

W 7-3 no show
L 7-4 UB reanimator
W 8-4 Eldrazi
L 8-5 bug delver
W 9-5 burn
W 10-5 burn


I have to say your wins are pretty impressive. You went up against some pretty nasty combo decks and won. Any chance you could expand on those wins a little? choices and such?

[Leshrac82]

About reasonable cards in the new set: There is still Trophy Mage.

I'm surprised nobody has tried that yet - many UG lists play Trinket Mage, and i think Trophy Mage could be better.
Possible bullets for Trophy Mage i consider at the moment:
Ensnaring Bridge
Trinisphere
Crucible of Worlds
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination

The first 4 have all seen play in different 12post lists at some point and are strong cards against a variety of decks. Staff of Domination is usually just played in MUD for the combo with Metalworker, but with a lot of mana i could see this do some work (this would be my value bullet if i draw a Trophy Mage lategame and/or don't need any of the other options).

I will try some variation of my usual list with this, but i think this could work just as good in a traditional UG list. The only real question is if this is fast enough, but i think this card really deserves at least some testing.

[k_omega]

Planar Bridge is odd. You already have Eye of Ugin and SnT. It would fit into a MUD deck pretty well in my opinion.

It is odd, particularly for UG builds with lots of spells, but I think it could do good work in more permanent-based mono-G versions. Being able to tutor into play Ugin (the killer app, I think), lands, Titans, and combo hate pieces all at instant speed is serious business. It also lets you deploy Primeval Titan without double-green on board and, assuming it resolves, gives you more play against countermagic.

So I think the effect is definitely worth something to the deck; whether it's worth 6+8 mana and the turn investment is unclear. I'm hoping to get a copy at the prerelease to fool around with.

[Skriger]

It is odd, particularly for UG builds with lots of spells, but I think it could do good work in more permanent-based mono-G versions. Being able to tutor into play Ugin (the killer app, I think), lands, Titans, and combo hate pieces all at instant speed is serious business. It also lets you deploy Primeval Titan without double-green on board and, assuming it resolves, gives you more play against countermagic.

So I think the effect is definitely worth something to the deck; whether it's worth 6+8 mana and the turn investment is unclear. I'm hoping to get a copy at the prerelease to fool around with.

I see what you mean. Mono Green would be the best shell for it. Problem I still have with it is if you are able to produce 14 mana, you should be tutoring via Eye of Ugin and casting your Eldrazi very shortly after. I almost rather run a candelabra or a 2nd Eye of Ugin instead of this if going into a green build (money aside). Also keep in mind it is only an ETB so no trigger on your Eldrazi Titans, that hurts at this point of game. GsZ is your toolbox for cheating in Prime Time and with the right SB is much more versatile. The only real benefit I see here is that it is able to tutor up a planeswalker. So if you have Ugin or Karn in your build, It's essentially a 2nd/3rd one of those cards in my eyes.

[cwcomposer]

I've been thinking about how exciting it is to goldfish mono-green Post and make a turn four Primeval Titan into a turn five Emrakul. This got me wondering if there could be a build of the deck to ensure this happens as often as possible. Sure, it will probably be less versatile of a deck and perhaps even weaker to combo, but what would this "all-in" type of deck look like?

As for speed, play as many Candelabra of Tawnos as you can afford. Green Sun's Zenith as virtual 5-8 Primeval Titan also allows a little bit of toolbox action: 1 Dryad Arbor and 1 Oracle of Mul Daya for early tutoring, and additional one-ofs like Gaddock Teeg and Reclamation Sage in the sideboard.

What about 4 Exploration as a (hopefully) turn-one play? In a build like this, could this provide some amazing acceleration? How many lands in total would the deck want to run to take advantage of it?

Add 2-4 Expedition Map to always have lands to play... the singleton Oracle of Mul Daya helps here, too. What about Sylvan Library (instead of Sensei's Divining Top) to dig a little deeper? 4 Crop Rotation and 3-4 Warping Wail, as these cards are all-stars in this deck. Add 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. 2-3 Pithing Needle as an answer to Wasteland (and other things).

I'm terrible at brewing decks, so I wonder what advice people would have on this type of an approach to Titan Post. The deck starts shaping up something like this:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Windswept Heath
6 Forest
2 Savannah

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Oracle of Mul Daya

3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
4 Exploration
3 Expedition Map
2 Sylvan Library
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail

[Skriger]

I've been thinking about how exciting it is to goldfish mono-green Post and make a turn four Primeval Titan into a turn five Emrakul. This got me wondering if there could be a build of the deck to ensure this happens as often as possible. Sure, it will probably be less versatile of a deck and perhaps even weaker to combo, but what would this "all-in" type of deck look like?

As for speed, play as many Candelabra of Tawnos as you can afford. Green Sun's Zenith as virtual 5-8 Primeval Titan also allows a little bit of toolbox action: 1 Dryad Arbor and 1 Oracle of Mul Daya for early tutoring, and additional one-ofs like Gaddock Teeg and Reclamation Sage in the sideboard.

What about 4 Exploration as a (hopefully) turn-one play? In a build like this, could this provide some amazing acceleration? How many lands in total would the deck want to run to take advantage of it?

Add 2-4 Expedition Map to always have lands to play... the singleton Oracle of Mul Daya helps here, too. What about Sylvan Library (instead of Sensei's Divining Top) to dig a little deeper? 4 Crop Rotation and 3-4 Warping Wail, as these cards are all-stars in this deck. Add 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. 2-3 Pithing Needle as an answer to Wasteland (and other things).

I'm terrible at brewing decks, so I wonder what advice people would have on this type of an approach to Titan Post. The deck starts shaping up something like this:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Windswept Heath
6 Forest
2 Savannah

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Oracle of Mul Daya

3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
4 Exploration
3 Expedition Map
2 Sylvan Library
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail

If you wanted to go that type of route, why not run Green Sun's and Show and Tell? This give you a massive amount of cheaty power to get your creatures on deck as quick as possible. You can then also run Boseiju, who Shelters All to ensure you are able to cast since your counter magic matches will leave you stuck until you can pull something off. I like the idea of Sylvan Library so you can draw cards. Everytime I try to go more combo route, the problem is your run out of gas very easily or have no decent way to filter things you dont need at the time. Running Explore seemed to help, additional land drop and worked well if you just draw into a basic land or something of the sort. Also, I feel if you want to do the whole "All in combo" Run dark depths. It's just one more option to get the ball rolling much quicker.

Overall doesn't feel super strong. You would really need to fine tune it if you want it to work well. You're essentially going into like an Omnitell build or something of the sort.

[mykatdied]

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Windswept Heath
6 Forest
2 Savannah

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Oracle of Mul Daya

3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
4 Exploration
3 Expedition Map
2 Sylvan Library
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail

So if you really want the fastest primeval titan into emrakul you should probably be running explore. Because it cantrips it does increase you land count and opens up possibility of turn 3 Primeval titan into turn 4 Emrakul. Expedition map is slow as far as speed goes, but if you want in on the exploration plan I would max out on map and ancient stirrings to keep the lands and threats coming. To edit your list as a straight make mana, drop a dude deck and nothing in between I would go

In:
2 Vesuva
1 Candelabra
1 Expidition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings

Out:
2 Savannah
4 Warping Wail
2 Sylvan Library

I also likely want a second Ugin and no Dryad Arbor, unless you have it for Natural Order which is what I did a while back when I was on 12 Post.

[cwcomposer]

If you wanted to go that type of route, why not run Green Sun's and Show and Tell? This give you a massive amount of cheaty power to get your creatures on deck as quick as possible. You can then also run Boseiju, who Shelters All to ensure you are able to cast since your counter magic matches will leave you stuck until you can pull something off. I like the idea of Sylvan Library so you can draw cards. Everytime I try to go more combo route, the problem is your run out of gas very easily or have no decent way to filter things you dont need at the time. Running Explore seemed to help, additional land drop and worked well if you just draw into a basic land or something of the sort. Also, I feel if you want to do the whole "All in combo" Run dark depths. It's just one more option to get the ball rolling much quicker.

Overall doesn't feel super strong. You would really need to fine tune it if you want it to work well. You're essentially going into like an Omnitell build or something of the sort.

I would prefer to stay away from blue, as I don't own a single Tropical Island. Boseiju, who Shelters All is a great suggestion, and mykatdied also suggests Explore. If I were to add the Dark Depths combo, would it include a single copy and a single copy of Thespian's Stage, or multiples or one or both?


So if you really want the fastest primeval titan into emrakul you should probably be running explore. Because it cantrips it does increase you land count and opens up possibility of turn 3 Primeval titan into turn 4 Emrakul. Expedition map is slow as far as speed goes, but if you want in on the exploration plan I would max out on map and ancient stirrings to keep the lands and threats coming. To edit your list as a straight make mana, drop a dude deck and nothing in between I would go

In:
2 Vesuva
1 Candelabra
1 Expidition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings

Out:
2 Savannah
4 Warping Wail
2 Sylvan Library

I also likely want a second Ugin and no Dryad Arbor, unless you have it for Natural Order which is what I did a while back when I was on 12 Post.

If I get rid of Sylvan Library and Dryad Arbor, then there is no reason to keep fetch lands, correct? They could just become Forests? What about adding a single Khalni Garden as protection for Primeval Titan from Liliana of the Veil? Unless I keep the Savannah to give white mana for sideboard options...

Finally, in a deck like this, how would Explore and Into the North compare / contrast one another? They both give you an "extra" land drop, although Into the North would only be for a Forest or Dark Depths, whereas Explore could be for a Locus land if you have it / draw it. Into the North doesn't cantrip in the exact same way, but the both cost the same at the same sorcery speed.

[Skriger]

Grand Prix San Jose and Las Vegas are right around the corner! I am taking along my Bant Turbo Post list with slight changes. Took out a Vesuva to run Thespian's Stage. Still interacts with Song of the Dryad, opens my sideboard to Dark Depths, Doesn't ETB tapped.

I wanted to reach out to you all for some constructive choices on a better Sideboard. The build gears towards heavier battlefield creature control since I feel those types are decks are heavy in the meta. It is light on the non creature removal utilizing only Song of the Dryads and Ulamog. Here is the deck for reference:

Mainboard
4x Brainstorm
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
4x Crop Rotation
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Pithing Needle
1x Plains
4x Primeval Titan
1x Savannah
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Show and Tell
2x Song of the Dryads
2x Swords to Plowshares
3x Terminus
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Vesuva
2x Windswept Heath

Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
3x Krosan Grip
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
1x Platinum Emperion
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Trinisphere

Bant Turbo Post by Skriger @ TappedOut.net (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-turbo-post/)

Please let me know what you think. Keep in mind this is Grand Prix Sideboard. Needs to stay fairly broad and cover as many major decks being played.
Here is my thoughts on it so far.

Bojuka Bog. Obvious use against graveyard happy decks.
Dark Depths. Great speed against decks with very little removal or none at all.
Krosan Grip. Great against Omniscience builds and any other targets it can feed on.
Leyline of Sanctity. Burn and Combo decks.
Pithing Needle, Because it's Pithing Needle. wasteland / rishadan port decks are a pain.
Platinum Emperion. Same idea as Dark Depths, Great against Eldrazi and Burn.
Surgical Extraction. Great tool against a lot of builds.
Trinisphere. Great against low mana base decks, combo, aggro.

[hymnyou]

I would prefer to stay away from blue, as I don't own a single Tropical Island.

If you still are considering CG I would consult with theboozecube. He is the most proficient with the build in this forum. I noticed you didnt have ancient stirrings in your CG list, that is the most powerful card in CG.

[Skriger]

I would prefer to stay away from blue, as I don't own a single Tropical Island. Boseiju, who Shelters All is a great suggestion, and mykatdied also suggests Explore. If I were to add the Dark Depths combo, would it include a single copy and a single copy of Thespian's Stage, or multiples or one or both?



If I get rid of Sylvan Library and Dryad Arbor, then there is no reason to keep fetch lands, correct? They could just become Forests? What about adding a single Khalni Garden as protection for Primeval Titan from Liliana of the Veil? Unless I keep the Savannah to give white mana for sideboard options...

Finally, in a deck like this, how would Explore and Into the North compare / contrast one another? They both give you an "extra" land drop, although Into the North would only be for a Forest or Dark Depths, whereas Explore could be for a Locus land if you have it / draw it. Into the North doesn't cantrip in the exact same way, but the both cost the same at the same sorcery speed.

Fetches will always help with chunky draws. If you are running Sensei's Divining Top, I would keep them.

Differences are pretty big with Explore and Into the North. Explore is just straight up cantrip, Into the North is not. So say you draw into a creature you are able to cast via the extra land drop, that is much better value than an automatic land drop. The bigger benefit of Into the north is if you do run Dark Depths, its another card outside of Crop rotation that will help get that card into action quicker. Really depends on the build the route of all those cards. They all have very crucial abilities to make the deck work in a specific way. Try building up a list that you see will really work and as Hymmyou pointed out, boozecube has been a pretty big contributor of the non blue builds.

[cwcomposer]

The feedback here, as always, is fantastic. Thanks, everyone.

And now for the ridiculous question of the night: If budget were not an issue and you could run four Candelabra of Tawnos in a mono-green/green-colorless build, would you?

Or is the "right" number something other than four?

EDITED TO ADD a new decklist:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
7 Forest
2 Savannah (this is for white sideboard options)

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
4 Exploration
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
4 Explore

[Leshrac82]

Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
3x Krosan Grip
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
1x Platinum Emperion
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Trinisphere

Bant Turbo Post by Skriger @ TappedOut.net (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-turbo-post/)

Please let me know what you think. Keep in mind this is Grand Prix Sideboard. Needs to stay fairly broad and cover as many major decks being played.
Here is my thoughts on it so far.

Bojuka Bog. Obvious use against graveyard happy decks.
Dark Depths. Great speed against decks with very little removal or none at all.
Krosan Grip. Great against Omniscience builds and any other targets it can feed on.
Leyline of Sanctity. Burn and Combo decks.
Pithing Needle, Because it's Pithing Needle. wasteland / rishadan port decks are a pain.
Platinum Emperion. Same idea as Dark Depths, Great against Eldrazi and Burn.
Surgical Extraction. Great tool against a lot of builds.
Trinisphere. Great against low mana base decks, combo, aggro.


I'm not an expert for this type of build, so take my advise with caution, but these are my thoughts on your sideboard and on other options:
1. Bojuka Bog: I would really try to play this maindeck - just one slot, but with your 4 Crop Rotations really strong against many matchups. Otherwise keep it in the board.
2. Depths: I like Depths, most other players don't. Maybe just in the board is good for your build.
3. Krosan Grip: Clearly included, without other enchantment removal i think 3 is the right number. (And i agree not to play RecSage - with GSZ i always play it, but without it, Grip is better, the body on RecSage doesn't matter.)
4. Leyline of Sanctity: I played this for a long time, but i cut it months ago. I would play other combo hate instead. The problem with Leyline:
It's great against Storm, but Storm is probably at an all time low right now, and i wouldn't really expect as much as half a year ago. It's useless against SnT decks, and those are the biggest combo deck right now. Elves is also big, and it's useless there too. It works against discard from Reanimator, but not even sure if i would bring it in there. Against Aluren it looks good, but not sure how much Aluren you can actually expect (last GP was much less than anybody expected), and against the traditional Aluren decks with Recruiter it's actually not good (because they play usually one RecSage, and they can get this midcombo without any problem).
It's great against Burn, but i don't know how much to expect (cheap deck, but i don't think it's very good right now). It's not good against BGx decks (solid in your opening hand, but a dead draw otherwise - i don't know if it's even correct to board it in against Shardless).
I would probably play Ethersworn Canonist instead: Also great against Storm (just a little easier to kill for them). Against SnT it's good if they play Omni (and those are the really bad matchups, SnT without Omni is usually beatable) - putting it in on SnT can give you time to untap to kill Omni, and having it already in play means your own Emrakul or Titan on their SnT usually beats their Omni. It's good against Elves, it's playable against Reanimator, it slows down Aluren, it's also ok against Burn. It's even playable against Infect.
5. Needle: I don't like Needle, but it's probably fine.
6. Platinum Emperion: Too slow in my opinion. In the matchups where you want it you will often not get the time to cast it. I really don't like 8 mana sideboard cards against decks that kill you on Turn 3 or at most Turn 4. But maybe it's fine with SnT, this is where my lack of experience with this build matters.
7. Surgical: Clearly fine, just not sure if 2 or 3 is the right number.
8. Trinisphere: Also fine, again not sure about the right number.

The cards i would think about are Ethersworn Canonist and maybe Meddling Mage.
Also, it's kinda surprising you aren't playing any counterspells in the board, Flusterstorm and Swan Song would be the usual options. Not sure if i like that or not.

[Skriger]

....
1. Bojuka Bog: I would really try to play this maindeck - just one slot, but with your 4 Crop Rotations really strong against many matchups. Otherwise keep it in the board.
2. Depths: I like Depths, most other players don't. Maybe just in the board is good for your build.
......
The cards i would think about are Ethersworn Canonist and maybe Meddling Mage.
Also, it's kinda surprising you aren't playing any counterspells in the board, Flusterstorm and Swan Song would be the usual options. Not sure if i like that or not.

I used to run Trickbind and Swan Song but recently took them out since the meta was funky around my area and they ended up sort of dead weight. I agree with Canonist and Meddling Mage for the side. I feel Mage is a great card since it can shut down a lot of decks. Platinum Emperion just feels like a great piece against Eldrazi Stompy which is a tough match if they really start going nuts. I could replace the leylines with Meddling Mage?

Having Dark Depths or Bojuka Bog in the main really messes with the mana base of this deck. Typically I can remove non essential lands post board so it's not a huge problem but to have always in main just makes this deck entirely too clunky to run.

[k_omega]

If I were to add the Dark Depths combo, would it include a single copy and a single copy of Thespian's Stage, or multiples or one or both?
...
What about adding a single Khalni Garden as protection for Primeval Titan from Liliana of the Veil?

Finally, in a deck like this, how would Explore and Into the North compare / contrast one another? They both give you an "extra" land drop, although Into the North would only be for a Forest or Dark Depths, whereas Explore could be for a Locus land if you have it / draw it. Into the North doesn't cantrip in the exact same way, but the both cost the same at the same sorcery speed.

When I played Dark Depths I used only one copy of each. It's not the primary plan of the deck (nor should it be) and you have enough land-search effects to find them reliably. I always encourage people to play a one-of Khalni Garden because it provides a body that doesn't effectively Stone Rain you when it dies.

I have tried Explore and Into the North at various times and have been unimpressed with both. Explore has its moments of greatness but usually requires some luck and setup to get real value from. You need two lands to cast it, another in hand as the extra, and another land in hand or on top of the deck for the following turn (otherwise you might as well have just played the third land naturally on T3 - Explore would not have really done much). If you keep 7 on the play this sequence requires an Explore and four lands in the top 8 cards of the deck, which doesn't happen as often as I'd like. I replaced my Explores with Swords to Plowshares and won't look back.

Into the North is fine if you have maindeck Dark Depths. Also, don't underestimate its use for getting the second green source for Primeval Titan. Again, though, with Warping Wail now existing I think there are better cards to play.




1 Bojuka Bog. Obvious use against graveyard happy decks.
1 Dark Depths. Great speed against decks with very little removal or none at all.
3 Krosan Grip. Great against Omniscience builds and any other targets it can feed on.
2 Leyline of Sanctity. Burn and Combo decks.
1 Pithing Needle, Because it's Pithing Needle. wasteland / rishadan port decks are a pain.
1 Platinum Emperion. Same idea as Dark Depths, Great against Eldrazi and Burn.
3 Surgical Extraction. Great tool against a lot of builds.
3 Trinisphere. Great against low mana base decks, combo, aggro.


1) I question the utility of Emperion against Burn. I've had too many games lost to Smash to Smithereens to comfortably play it - maybe your experience is different?
2) Maindeck Bojuka Bog is so strong against matchups that are hard to win Game 1 otherwise that I would try to find space for it there.
3) I've found three Leylines to strike the best balance between having one in the opening hand and not having it clog up draws later. Two looks like too few to me and you have Brainstorms, so I would find space for maindeck Bog and replace it with a third Leyline.

Edit: It occurs to me now that a random Bog is probably a much bigger issue in Bant than in my Gw version, so I defer to your judgment regarding the stability of the mana base. I stand by my suggestion for a third Leyline though.

As a point of curiosity, how do you like Trinisphere against Delver? I used to not bring it in against them and haven't had many testing opportunities recently to try it out.


If you still are considering CG I would consult with theboozecube. He is the most proficient with the build in this forum. I noticed you didnt have ancient stirrings in your CG list, that is the most powerful card in CG.
There are theboozecube's CG lists and then there are Kassari-style G(w) lists which differ in the key aspect of playing Primeval Titan, whereas CG goes straight to Eldrazi and has much less need for green mana. Ancient Stirrings shines in CG because there are more hits, but does less work in G(w) especially if you also play GSZ. I played Stirrings in a Primeval Titan build for a while and although it was good, it also makes you much more vulnerable to Chalice and Counterbalance which is a significant strike against the card.


And now for the ridiculous question of the night: If budget were not an issue and you could run four Candelabra of Tawnos in a mono-green/green-colorless build, would you?

Or is the "right" number something other than four?
In a CG list in theboozecube's style I would run 4 Candelabras, because they supercharge Maze of Iths and let you make big plays with fewer Cloudposts. In Primeval Titan builds I am happy with 1 and would play at most 2 (I only own 1 and almost always play it, especially nowadays due to new Thalia). You generally don't play Mazes, the Titans take up slots, the Titans provide ramp, and the Titans can be the big play on their own.

[Skriger]

As a point of curiosity, how do you like Trinisphere against Delver? I used to not bring it in against them and haven't had many testing opportunities recently to try it out.

I feel Trinisphere is a great card against Delver. It really makes them choose their control over creatures and slows them down immensely. It can also ruin Burn abilities as well. I was testing it again today boarded them in and they held the ground quite well for me to get Dark depths up and running one match also got a Prime Time beat down rolling as well.

[Lormador]

I'm looking for a deck that has a strong BUG Control matchup in anticipation of Fatal Push really becoming a thing, and I think Cloudpost might be that deck.

Has anyone looked into those matchups? I'm thinking particularly about the different BUG control w/ Fatal Push lists mentioned on the Brainstorm Show.

[MechTactical]

Maybe Walking Ballista with trinket mage? :really:

[Skriger]

Maybe Walking Ballista with trinket mage? :really:

Why Walking Ballista in the first place? Pricey to drop, pricey to pump all to just be able to burn an opponent? What matchup would it be useful in? Unless you get a nifty set of cloudposts lined up then drop this card, feels like it would take too much time to setup.



I'm looking for a deck that has a strong BUG Control matchup in anticipation of Fatal Push really becoming a thing, and I think Cloudpost might be that deck.

Has anyone looked into those matchups? I'm thinking particularly about the different BUG control w/ Fatal Push lists mentioned on the Brainstorm Show.

BUG usually has a hard time with reanimator and blood moon decks. 12-post handles them fine if they are a control build but shardless bug is trickier for the fact of their super efficient toolbox midrange capabilities.

I feel 4c delver will go back to just BUG since they won't need Lightning Bolt anymore with this in that slot. Still your typical match up against those builds, I don't think it's going to cause in influx of players other than ones just wanting to test it out. It's a great addition to the Legacy card pool but I don't think its that game breaking as the cards they have graciously been giving to Death and Taxes lately.

[k_omega]

Maybe Walking Ballista with trinket mage? :really:


Why Walking Ballista in the first place? Pricey to drop, pricey to pump all to just be able to burn an opponent? What matchup would it be useful in? Unless you get a nifty set of cloudposts lined up then drop this card, feels like it would take too much time to setup.

It pings creatures or players. So it can be "(4): Destroy target Insectile Aberration", "(2): Destroy target Pyromancer", etc. It's a purely colorless answer to Magus of the Moon that, yes, can be found by Trinket Mage, and makes some use of the copious mana we can generate. So I could see it in a U/G build but it seems inferior to plain old Swords in decks with easy access to white.

On an unrelated note, new Emrakul continues to impress. With its cost reduction I got to cast it through double Blood Moon out of Painter today and Mindslaver him into paying his whole life total to Spellskite (spin top, redirect x 9).

[MechTactical]

@Skirger "classic" UG simply doesn't have good spot removal (dismember, but i don't like it all that much). Ballista adds a nifty ability to trinket mage builds. I would like to add to k_omegas reasoning that Ballista is a creature (fetch-able with trinket and eye of ugin!), which can be crucial in some MU. It is expensive, but i often miss not having a meaningful colorless mana-sink available to me. I could even see him as an alternative win-con. With candelabra we can generate absurd mana or against an oponent that paid too much life during the first few turns...
Yesterday i did some online testing. i'm not super impressed (would be nice if ballista had a single X :cool:), but ballista did enough work to merit further testing. I dropped him for 2 against liliana when SnTing titan. In another match i pinged 2 dark confidants and had a 1-1 ping creature on the board for "only" 6 colorless mana...

I didn't test UGW because it seems to greedy to play 3 colors + colorless (u are basically playing 4 color post...) with all the toolbox lands in there i can't see the deck running smoothly.

@k_omega i don't want to go ballistic with ballista here, but he could help to utilize the cost reduction on mindrakul further. i often missed a creature in my graveyard when casting him (u could in theory cast him for 0 and he goes directly into ypur graveyard reducing your mindrakul for 1 :eyebrow:)...

[Roweboater]

I'm a long time lurker, this is my first post. I recently made the plunge and bought duals for the first time to transition from mono green over to Bant. I'm looking for some help improving the deck and the sideboard. I haven't tested the sideboard yet, I just threw together something I thought might be good. Here is the list:

Creatures:7
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:26
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Swords to Plowshares
4 Show and Tell
2 Song of the Dryads
3 Terminus
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:27
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
2 Vesuva
2 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:15
2 Meddling Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sacred Ground
2 Krosan Grip
2 Trinisphere
1 Nephalia Academy

Any input will be appreciated :)

[Skriger]

It pings creatures or players. So it can be "(4): Destroy target Insectile Aberration", "(2): Destroy target Pyromancer", etc. It's a purely colorless answer to Magus of the Moon that, yes, can be found by Trinket Mage, and makes some use of the copious mana we can generate. So I could see it in a U/G build but it seems inferior to plain old Swords in decks with easy access to white.

On an unrelated note, new Emrakul continues to impress. With its cost reduction I got to cast it through double Blood Moon out of Painter today and Mindslaver him into paying his whole life total to Spellskite (spin top, redirect x 9).

Okay, I see it's potential usefulness. I do agree it does fit into the U/G build pretty decently. I don't think I would run it mainboard though. Feels much more of a sideboard, A lot of those decks I would rely on a tabernacle to keep them at bay since they have a very particular mana base and it locks them out of playing. I understand not everyone has or can afford a Tabernacle, but I am speaking strictly out of a development point of view. Spot removal is odd in my opinion but increasingly more required. The creatures on the battlefield feel like could be easily handled with All is Dust, Oblivion Stone, Perilous Vault, Ulamog, Worldbreaker, and other pieces that can fit into a U/G build. It also doesn't feel very strong against some our tough match ups. The major selling point would be it's tutor-able with trinket mage and the damage is redirectable to planeswalkers and it's colorless damage (no mom prevention). This is the biggest reason I run Song of the Dryads. Creatures don't feel like an issue most of the time, it's when they get a planeswalker online and start controlling the game state.

To add to your note about mindrakul. She has been a great addition. Simple to cast and can really turn the game state. I really enjoy that you used spellskite to kill your opponent, awesome!

@Roweboater, Nice list! Welcome to the Bant club! :cool:

First off, you have a lot of utility lands in the main. Being 3 color, your colors are very important to have the right manabase at all times. This will hurt if you draw into a bojuka bog or glacial chasm and it's not useful unless you've kept a fetch up with a brainstorm. Running 27 lands is almost 50% of the deck so you better make each land drop useful. Run Bojuka in the main if you really need a lot of graveyard hate against your meta. Otherwise keep it on the side.

Second, Singleton Sword to Plowshares makes me feel not confident I would draw into it ever. You could easily make it your 4th Terminus or a 2nd Ugin, 3rd Song of the Dryad, singleton of Worldbreaker. Personally, I took out Ugin because Terminus was doing a much better job and Song of the Dryad would clean up the other non creature targets.

Sideboards are odd usually. They should be built for your meta. I am curious why the singleton Wurmcoil Engine? What would you bring this in against? I've thought about using Meddling Mage but just always doesn't feel that great in this deck especially if you want to Terminus. Sacred Ground is an interesting card, it's been brought up a few times as an alternate to Crucible of Worlds. I haven't tested it but would be interested in how it works for you, still feels like you rather just have Crucible in this slot. Overall your 75 feels very weak against combo. It's one of the worst matchups but this doesn't have much to tackle them, i guess meddling mage and Trinisphere. Nephalia Academy never felt useful to me mainly because discarding hasn't been an issue at all. Slows Liliana, Cabal, and Hymm. If those are played heavily, maybe. Leyline of Sanctity does the same job minus it doesn't stop Liliana, but you could easily use a board wipe or Song of the Dryad to deal with her. 3 color list with too many utility lands that don't produce the proper colors will hurt.

[Roweboater]

Thanks for the constructive feedback :)

Since switching to Bant I've noticed that Glacial Chasm is less relevant. I'm considering moving it and Bojuka Bog to the side. The biggest change I'll likely make based on your knowledge is:

-1 StP
-1 Ugin
+1 Song of the Dryad's
+1 Worldbreaker?

My idea behind Wurmcoil was to give me another fetchable yet powerful creature to bring in against decks with lots of removal. It seems Innocent Blood has increased in popularity in the local meta.

Nephalia is there because Cabal, Hymn, and other discard are pretty common lately. A good Hymn can be absolutely devastating on occasion.

Swan Song is there against Storm and maybe Burn. There's only one storm player and he doesn't always show up or even play it every time he does show. Eventually to be turned into Flusterstorm.

Trinisphere feels good to me against Delver, Burn, and Storm. But there are other options to consider to hate those specific decks.

How has Worldbreaker been mainboard? I'm not sure why it deserves a spot over say Wurmcoil or Platinum Emperion.

[Skriger]

Thanks for the constructive feedback :)

Since switching to Bant I've noticed that Glacial Chasm is less relevant. I'm considering moving it and Bojuka Bog to the side. The biggest change I'll likely make based on your knowledge is:

-1 StP
-1 Ugin
+1 Song of the Dryad's
+1 Worldbreaker?

My idea behind Wurmcoil was to give me another fetchable yet powerful creature to bring in against decks with lots of removal. It seems Innocent Blood has increased in popularity in the local meta.

Nephalia is there because Cabal, Hymn, and other discard are pretty common lately. A good Hymn can be absolutely devastating on occasion.

Swan Song is there against Storm and maybe Burn. There's only one storm player and he doesn't always show up or even play it every time he does show. Eventually to be turned into Flusterstorm.

Trinisphere feels good to me against Delver, Burn, and Storm. But there are other options to consider to hate those specific decks.

How has Worldbreaker been mainboard? I'm not sure why it deserves a spot over say Wurmcoil or Platinum Emperion.

Build to fit your meta! I definitely see the reason for your choices just worried about consistency which i've notice this deck has a problem with. Worldbreaker is a cast effect, like a mini version of Ulamog but cheaper. If you feel Ugin won't work for you, then remove it and add another Swords and keep the existing one. I wouldn't go under 2 in the main for Swords to Plowshares. Song of the Dryad continues to prove its worth in my deck, always locks out very troublesome cards.

As for Worldbreaker main, as stated above, it has a cast effect. Even if they counter it, you can get to blow something up. His recursion ability can be quite useful after the countering as well. Platinum Emperion has not proved himself well. I keep wanting him to work since he is really great against Eldrazi Stompy, but he just fizzles against most other decks. Burn usually will kill it with Smash to Smithereens. Most other decks have an easy way to answer him and like you mentioned Innocent Blood and Diabolic Edict are starting to show their faces again.

I played a small 10 player tournament last night for Grand Prix San Jose testing. Trinisphere proved it's worth decently for me to keep in the side. Delver has an issue with it but late game it wasn't as big of a problem as I would have liked. I ended up pulling up Tabernacle to really lock down their land, having trinisphere plus tabernacle essentially kept them down to 2 lands and relying on Deathrite to keep them running. I was then able to Spin the top to get Terminus running and shut them out.

My build heavily relies on 1 drops to get it's early game it up to speed. Chalice of Void is really rearing it's head lately. How have some of you been dealing with it in your 75? I was thinking either Swan Song, Mindbreak Trap, or something smiliar. Suggestions?? Here is my current sideboard; Link to entire list: Bant Turbo Post (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-turbo-post/)
Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
3x Krosan Grip
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Trinisphere

[Postman]

Just wanted to share my current build:

BUG Post

4 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm


1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Primeval Titan
3 Sylvan Caryatid


1 Perilous Vault
3 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle

Sideboard

4 Flusterstorm
3 Trinisphere
2 Krosan Grip
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Spell Pierce

Really like the addition of black, and it's no problem regarding the manabase. Opponents usually don't try to cut you off one color, and if they do, they will regret soon^^ Tried white for Terminus as well, but it felt bit too slow against Elves and Eldrazi because of the required setup (SDT, Brainstorm etc). Will most likely stick on BUG. Abrupt Decay is a huge improvement compared to Repeal (okay, can't handle Marit Lage...), and Toxic Deluge is almost overpowered.

[Leshrac82]

Really like the addition of black, and it's no problem regarding the manabase. Opponents usually don't try to cut you off one color, and if they do, they will regret soon^^ Tried white for Terminus as well, but it felt bit too slow against Elves and Eldrazi because of the required setup (SDT, Brainstorm etc). Will most likely stick on BUG. Abrupt Decay is a huge improvement compared to Repeal (okay, can't handle Marit Lage...), and Toxic Deluge is almost overpowered.

Completely agree on Toxic Deluge.

Abrupt Decay has never worked out for me, tried it more than once and it never solved the problems i had (but i never had real problems with Chalice while that would be a huge problem for your deck, that's probably relevant). Have you ever thought about Collective Brutality? I like that much more in my list:
- as spotremoval it can get many relevant threats (other than Goyf, it kills pretty much every relevant threat Abrupt Decay can hit)
- as discard it's very useful against combo, and against fair decks that's sometimes useful too
Obivously we don't really want to discard stuff to it to escalate, but the way our decks are built, there are often useless cards in hand for that purpose, so just to have the option to do that can matter. (I would probably replace 2 Abrupt Decays with Collective Brutality.)

Also, Thoughtseize could work as a sideboard card. (I like to mix my answers to combo, so i would probably try to replace 2 Flusterstorms with 2 Thoughtseize. If your manabase can support that - i'm counting just 7 untapped black sources, that could be a problem. I like 10+ untapped black sources in my deck, without Mox Diamonds that's probably not possible.)

[Roweboater]

@Skriger

I think the changes I'll make for now is up my count of StP to 2 in the main, move Glacial to the side, and throw a Worldbreaker in the main. Just test with that for a while and keep notes of my games.

@Postman

I'd like to hear your reasoning for running things like Sylvan Caryatid, and Perilous Vault over things such as Show and Tell, Mox Diamond, Exploration, All is Dust, Ugin. I get the idea of Perilous Vault but how successful has it been? Do you think being capable of casting it 1-2 turns earlier, when compared to AiD or Ugin, is worth having to lay and possible wait a turn to untap and activate?

[Postman]

Completely agree on Toxic Deluge.

Abrupt Decay has never worked out for me, tried it more than once and it never solved the problems i had (but i never had real problems with Chalice while that would be a huge problem for your deck, that's probably relevant). Have you ever thought about Collective Brutality? I like that much more in my list:
- as spotremoval it can get many relevant threats (other than Goyf, it kills pretty much every relevant threat Abrupt Decay can hit)
- as discard it's very useful against combo, and against fair decks that's sometimes useful too
Obivously we don't really want to discard stuff to it to escalate, but the way our decks are built, there are often useless cards in hand for that purpose, so just to have the option to do that can matter. (I would probably replace 2 Abrupt Decays with Collective Brutality.)

Also, Thoughtseize could work as a sideboard card. (I like to mix my answers to combo, so i would probably try to replace 2 Flusterstorms with 2 Thoughtseize. If your manabase can support that - i'm counting just 7 untapped black sources, that could be a problem. I like 10+ untapped black sources in my deck, without Mox Diamonds that's probably not possible.)

I tried 2 Collective Brutality, but I didn't like it :-/ It can get countered, and it doesn't handle Chalice @1. I guess almost every deck with green and black should run at least 3 copies of Abrupt Decay :-)

Didn't try Thoughtseize but Duress in the Sideboard, because I hate the lifeloss and there are very, very few decks where I would choose a creature to be discarded :-/

[Postman]

@Skriger

I think the changes I'll make for now is up my count of StP to 2 in the main, move Glacial to the side, and throw a Worldbreaker in the main. Just test with that for a while and keep notes of my games.

@Postman

I'd like to hear your reasoning for running things like Sylvan Caryatid, and Perilous Vault over things such as Show and Tell, Mox Diamond, Exploration, All is Dust, Ugin. I get the idea of Perilous Vault but how successful has it been? Do you think being capable of casting it 1-2 turns earlier, when compared to AiD or Ugin, is worth having to lay and possible wait a turn to untap and activate?

Let's see... Caryatid is sweet, because it provides several benefits: it blocks the small dudes like Bob, Thalia etc and often saves me 5+x life this way. It ramps, and we are a ramp deck. It's additional color - fixing and great against Blood Moon.

Perilous Vault is great for me, because it solves every problem at instant speed, and if it get's countered, I only "wasted" 4 mana instead of Ugin's 8 or AiD's 7. It can also destroy Eldrazi decks! :-))

I don't play these cards over Show and Tell! If I would add another copy, my deck would be illegal, since I already run the playset ;-)

Used to play 2 Ugin, but it's often a useless card. Not tutorable, doesn't work with Show and Tell, no cast - trigger @cmc8...so it's often a dead card in hand, hiding in the bib when needed or get's countered...

Exploration is only good in the starting 7, and every copy you see in addition is a nightmare. Only play it in good old Lands.

Mox Diamond is no option to me. I would only run a single copy with Trinket Mage toolbox, but it's too expensive in today's legacy for what it does. And I want my lands on the board, not in the yard. There are very, very few I would pitch into a Mox.

[Lormador]

Howdy fellow Posters, it's been awhile since I sleeved this deck up but I'm back to it. I took a long detour in RUG lands, which was most instructive.

I've been turning over the different color combinations possible for the deck (max 2, not saying 3 colors aren't feasible but I just don't want to go there: too complex). I'd appreciate any input on what lists you feel are most representative for each of them. This is what I've got going on so far.

UG: I've played against Jeremiah Rudolph and a lot of his builds are really solid. Some are too advanced for me to play, some have weird tech that doesn't apply in the current meta, but a lot of his straightforward builds are just great. I have been using one of the Ponder builds. I suspect that my list here isn't the best, though, because it doesn't seem much better than the other ones. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but if someone has a solid UG list kicking around I'd love to work it.

Mono Green: Here I took the John Kassari list and updated the threats: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65245. I'm using 1 Ugin here, and this list still kicks lots of butt. The only thing I'm not sure of is the way in which he's incorporated the Dark Depths kill, which I do like to see in all versions.

RG: My sweetheart build, but here I'm stuck brewing. This is the list I have so far. It's a very rough sketch.


// 8 Artifact
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos

// 9 Creature
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sneak Attack

// 9 Instant
3 Punishing Fire
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moment's Peace

// 28 Land
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Taiga
1 Misty Rainforest

// 4 Sorcery
4 Green Sun's Zenith


// 15 Sideboard
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Krosan Grip
2 Splendid Reclamation

I'd love to have a better RG list, though this one does accomplish my mission. Notice how the sideboard is thrown together? I threw it together.

Mission: destroy Miracles and BUG decks, 50/50 Delver, I don't care how much of a dog I am to combo.

In return for assistance I will test other's builds on cockatrice and provide reports.

[Roweboater]

@Postman

I like the reasoning and agree with it :) I was just curious :p

I can't believe I completely overlooked SnT in your list, what an idiot I am.

If I hadn't just started playing Bant I might be all
Over your BUG version.

[Lormador]

I tried a couple of games with the BUG version above. Pretty sweet! The mana is surprisingly (to me) not so bad.

My thoughts on Caryatid are that it's ok, you can get a lot of small edges with this card like not needing to devote an actual land drop for the G Titan demands you have.

I'm not sure that it should get the nod over Moment's Peace if it's primary job is to prevent damage. Moment's Peace is pretty sick.

[Skriger]

Hey guys!

I'm back from Grand Prix San Jose and have some small tidbits on the Bant Post. I signed up for the legacy fanatic package so I played in 6 events across 3 days. Day 2 ended up with 120 people, pretty impressed! So I threw my Bant Post and my other deck, EverCopter, into the mix.

Majority of day 1 was combo decks. A ton of people were playing BR Reanimator and BUG variants. So day 1 was very tough and I didn't do so hot. Ended up 1-3. I ran my normal sideboard. Afternoon event was a few better matchups, Bug Control, Nic Fit?(I think, forgot this one), Lands, Mentor Miracle. I went 2-2 that day beating out Bug Control and Lands. Oddly I got wrecked by the Mentor Miracle deck. Mentor really gives them more Tempo and outpace me. I attempted to Terminus a few times yet he would Countertop with his own so that was terrible. Careful with these matchups!

Here was the Sideboard.
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
3x Krosan Grip
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Trinisphere



So on Day 2 my friends and I figured we could conjure up an interesting idea. Stoneforge Mystic sideboard tech! Sounds crazy but hear me out. This deck seems to easily produce white. The idea was to run 2 Batterskulls, It helps with midrange and really helps level off against True Name if Terminus doesn't show up. Hard casting and returning is very simple to do so even if I do wipe the board, return the equipment and recast. 2nd Batterskull was just for the matter of redundancy and extra value if both were kicking on the battlefield. So here is my SPICEY Sideboard;

4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Batterskull
3x Krosan Grip
1x Pithing Needle
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
3x Surgical Extraction

Went into the morning event with my whacky sideboard hoping to really see it shine, yet same issue as the day before, Lots of combo. The few games I did get to play out with the combo was fairly strong but overall they would turn and go wide to beat me. I also didn't have a good day, some bad plays, missed triggers, just junky play I ended up 0-4. The second event in the day went a lot smoother, kept my stoneforge package. I actually didn't play it as much, most of the time I went for the Surgicals and Dark depth to out pace them.

I really would like to test this idea a little more! It feels like a decent setup for this deck for early/mid-game then it finishes with the Cloudpost eldrazi package if they aren't dead yet.

Day 3 was fun but got screwed over by my last opponent. essentially we should've split to allow for us both to maximize our tickets but he wished to play it out instead (globins) and he won. I was 2-2 that event. The last event I ran my other brew of EverCopter and went 3-1 which is another story for another Primer :D

[Zotmaster]

So on Day 2 my friends and I figured we could conjure up an interesting idea. Stoneforge Mystic sideboard tech! Sounds crazy but hear me out. This deck seems to easily produce white. The idea was to run 2 Batterskulls, It helps with midrange and really helps level off against True Name if Terminus doesn't show up. Hard casting and returning is very simple to do so even if I do wipe the board, return the equipment and recast. 2nd Batterskull was just for the matter of redundancy and extra value if both were kicking on the battlefield. So here is my SPICEY Sideboard;

4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Batterskull
3x Krosan Grip
1x Pithing Needle
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
3x Surgical Extraction

My gut reaction is that it's not gonna be great because combo tends to be more problematic for this sort of deck, but I like thinking outside the box and hey, it's worth a try. I've been playing around with Temporal Aperture myself, but my guess is it's more funny - hilarious, actually - than it is practical.

[MechTactical]

Has anyone else tried ballista? :eyebrow:

[Skriger]

Has anyone else tried ballista? :eyebrow:

You mean Walking Ballista? We started a conversation about it a few comments back. I feel it takes a bit too much to get it running efficiently but I also see it's advantages as a good removal or finisher. It's searchable with Trinket Mage which is super helpful.

[TLK]

Anyone else see this 4x Lotus Cobra list? Looks so spicy.

http://mtgpulse.com/event/26963#353932

[MechTactical]

You mean Walking Ballista? We started a conversation about it a few comments back. I feel it takes a bit too much to get it running efficiently but I also see it's advantages as a good removal or finisher. It's searchable with Trinket Mage which is super helpful.

Walking Ballista - yes. I tested with it in a more or less standard UG trickbind list. I feel it gives the deck a little bit of everything it lacks: redundancy, a new ping ability, extra creature, fetch-ability, manasink. Not much as a stand alone card, i agree. Personally i compare it with a taxing effect. Mostly it forces the opponent to react to it, especially if u are generating cloudmana, but it can sting at 2, 4 cmc as well, depending on the matchup. Despite being naturally weak against combo it allows subtle plays such as sacking against bridge from below and similar nonsense. I'm not sold, but my body count went up...

[Skriger]

Walking Ballista - yes. I tested with it in a more or less standard UG trickbind list. I feel it gives the deck a little bit of everything it lacks: redundancy, a new ping ability, extra creature, fetch-ability, manasink. Not much as a stand alone card, i agree. Personally i compare it with a taxing effect. Mostly it forces the opponent to react to it, especially if u are generating cloudmana, but it can sting at 2, 4 cmc as well, depending on the matchup. Despite being naturally weak against combo it allows subtle plays such as sacking against bridge from below and similar nonsense. I'm not sold, but my body count went up...

It's a decent card but overall what is it going to do against bad matchups? That's usually my first question when a new card comes out and looks like it might fit the shell. Only big benefit is a way to deal with someone that goes wide with creatures or if you get one out after someone Ad nauseam low enough to kill them. Other nice piece is that its color burn damage. Prevents Mother of Runes from stopping it. I feel this card only works decently in a trinket mage build. Outside of that it's just another clunky card which we have enough of already.

[Leshrac82]

It's a decent card but overall what is it going to do against bad matchups? That's usually my first question when a new card comes out and looks like it might fit the shell. Only big benefit is a way to deal with someone that goes wide with creatures or if you get one out after someone Ad nauseam low enough to kill them. Other nice piece is that its color burn damage. Prevents Mother of Runes from stopping it. I feel this card only works decently in a trinket mage build. Outside of that it's just another clunky card which we have enough of already.

I tried a few Walking Ballistas in my deck just to see what it does, and my conclusion is similar: This could work in a UG list with Trinket Mage, just because you don't have good removal in UG and you can fetch it with Trinket Mage. Maybe this could work even better in a colorless shell, closer to MUD - Walking Ballista is probably playable in MUD, and colorless lists have usually more mana and need removal. In other lists it's just not good enough - in W or B you have better removal, and it's just a very clunky card.



Anyone else see this 4x Lotus Cobra list? Looks so spicy.

http://mtgpulse.com/event/26963#353932

He had another 5-0 League with this deck, so this deck probably deserves some consideration.

The list is very different from most traditional lists. It has some similarities with my own lists and with the NicFit/8-Post hybrid lists (like the last one Kassari was testing): All these lists are lower to the ground, and don't just rely on casting Primeval Titan.

All these lists have an early ramp plan besides the typical lategame plan with Titan and Posts: I play Mox Diamond and have Dryard Arbor and Deathrite to fetch with GSZ, NicFit-Post has the NicFit Engine with Veteran Explorer, he has Lotus Cobras and also Arbor and Noble Hierarch to fetch with GSZ. I haven't tried that, don't know how good Lotus Cobra works - i imagine it might be slightly unreliable, but it could still lead to some explosives starts. This deck can probably play Turn 3 Primeval Titan rather often (and without Cloudposts), for example:
T1 Forest, GSZ->Arbor
T2 Forest, Lotus Cobra
T3 Fetch = 6 Mana for Primeval Titan
My own lines for a Turn 3 Primeval Titan usually involve at least 1 Cloudpost - and traditional decks probably need Candelabra.
The one problem with that line: His deck is only playing 3 fetchlands - i don't think that's optimal, there are many reasons to play more than that, and Lotus Cobra is certainly one of them.

I like Knight of the Reliquary, for the same reasons i like it in my own lists - he is playing Dark Depths, and going Knight->Marit Lage is just a very strong alternative win condition against many decks.
I'm not sure about the TKS, but they haven seen play in some lists, and they are his only maindeck combo hate. That's another problem: He is playing 2 Knights and 4 Crop Rotations, but the strongest anti-combo lands with Bojuka Bog and Glacial Chasm only in the sideboard. Maybe this is a meta call, i don't know.

I miss Tireless Tracker in this list, and i think it would be pretty good, especially in grindy games, but that's my personal preference.

Just 4 StP and no mass-removal is interesting, but with that many creatures and an engine completely relying on creatures, it's probably better not to include cards like Terminus.

The sideboard is interesting and imo needs some work. He could probably play 1 Rec Sage instead of the 3rd Krosan Grip. I don't really like Relic and Tormods Crypt as graveyard hate, i think there are better options (Surgical or Leyline of the Void or Faerie Macabre - also, with 4 GSZ you could play Scavenging Ooze, probably in the maindeck). 2 Chalice is interesting - i tried Chalice as a sideboard card a few months ago, i had less 1-drops than him, and it was still sometimes very awkward. I'm not sure i like that - whenever Chalice somes in, you will have some 1-drops you really want in the matchup too. On the other hand, Lands does something similar, they play Crop Rotation and also board in Chalice, both cards can be strong against the same combo decks, so maybe Chalice is just so strong it's still the best option. I'm working on a list with maindeck Chalice mostly without 1-drops.
I'm missing some of the more typical anti-combo cards for WG in this sideboard: Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist.


Overall, i like the direction this deck is taking, and i think it is probably better than the traditional lists, but i think it does need some work. Maybe i will test this deck and/or a different version of this at some point (i think the most defining card in this list is Lotus Cobra, and i haven't tested that at all so far).

[cin]

Hi Guys,

You may want to check my MUD Brews of the UG Post (MUD Post)

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13389&d=278519&f=LE

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13645&d=280305&f=LE (Black MUD Post)

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14091&d=283782&f=LE


And here's my latest Build for the deck, I also posted a reply on the MUD(Metalworker) thread because someone wanted to ask what they think of the deck.
I think this decklist belongs originally here in Turbo Eldrazi thread.

Current and latest Build:

[28 Lands]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Maze of Ith
2 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths

[12 Creatures]
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[16 Artifacts]
4 Grim Monolith
4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Forcefield

[5 Planeswalkers]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated

[Sideboard]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 All Is Dust
1 Avarice Totem

[maCHOOga]

So I haven't 12posted for a few months now...let alone play legacy. :-( Time flies!

There is a chance I'll be playing at the SCG classic this Sunday. Is there any new technology worth considering? The only thing work considering is Walking Ballista, but I don't think it's necessary unless your running an ancient stirrings build.

[MechTactical]

So I haven't 12posted for a few months now...let alone play legacy. :-( Time flies!

There is a chance I'll be playing at the SCG classic this Sunday. Is there any new technology worth considering? The only thing work considering is Walking Ballista, but I don't think it's necessary unless your running an ancient stirrings build.

i just blew out a loam player with ballista. He was drawing too much with library while he had a lock on me with lili. we discussed it later and he said he didn't expect direct damage from me. He went down to 3 life. i'm currently testing 2 ballistas with trinket. It's slow but I often drop it for 2 or 4. You can still pump it later with excess mana. I had situations (under Ugin mana) when a ballista was able to hold off a superior board - kill-pump-kill.

EDIT

Here's my current list:

Land (26)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (10)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Trinket Mage
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x Walking Ballista

Instant (13)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
2x Moment's Peace
3x Trickbind

Artifact (7)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Sorcery (4)
4x Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
1x Oblivion Stone
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Warping Wail

I'm doing quite well online. It maybe a specific meta, but i've played against most archetypes and it's been the one UG build i'm content with ATM (there are flex slots of course). I'm trying to simulate the "Ugin effect" with ballista and MP mainboard, while trickbind + kozilek are MB combo hate. Kozilek continues to impress me. I've tutored for him over Ulamog more than i thought i would. He always draws me into answers - finishers while being a huge control freak/threat. I think he makes trickbind much better. Ballista is still an undecided thing, but i think he may be playable.

[maCHOOga]

I played in the SCG classic today, I was a coward and didn't 12post. :-(

The match to my right was a 12post vs miracles...There was a 20 minute deck check followed by a entourage of judges talking with the 12 post player. It turns out that one of the cards in the deck was a counterfeit?! I asked the judge afterwards what card it was and they said cavern of souls! Holy crap! I wish I could have talked to the 12post player afterwards, but I didn't get a chance to... I did see the walking ballista against miracles though. Seemed awesome!

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Is there a reason the U/G version doesn't play oblivion stone? I know it blows up you're own pithing needles and candelabras, but it's overall cheaper to use than ugin when you use the mana spread over two turns. I just think having a faster board wipe would be clutch against delver decks. You could run it in a build with more crop rotations/trickbinds and less needles. There's so many times I didn't have enough mana for ugin before I died, I just think it would be worth a shot. I've also considered Boompile, since it's a colorless board wipe for only 4 mana (the problem being you flip a coin so there's a lot of variance there.) Still, its low enough CMC that you could run it out there, maybe fail on the flip a few times and probably be fine for a while until you get it.

[Hopo]

Is there a reason the U/G version doesn't play oblivion stone?

No there isn't and you should run it. It has been a staple like forever in pretty much all iterations so I don't know where you get your intel from. Sure, some people might not play it but that hardly translates to "U/G doesn't play Oblivion Stone."

[MechTactical]

Is there a reason the U/G version doesn't play oblivion stone? I know it blows up you're own pithing needles and candelabras, but it's overall cheaper to use than ugin when you use the mana spread over two turns. I just think having a faster board wipe would be clutch against delver decks. You could run it in a build with more crop rotations/trickbinds and less needles. There's so many times I didn't have enough mana for ugin before I died, I just think it would be worth a shot. I've also considered Boompile, since it's a colorless board wipe for only 4 mana (the problem being you flip a coin so there's a lot of variance there.) Still, its low enough CMC that you could run it out there, maybe fail on the flip a few times and probably be fine for a while until you get it.

I've been swapping between o-stone / perilous vault since i started playing the deck. O-stone is vulnerable against decay (that's why i stopped playing it MB), both are weak against artifact hate, stifle, needle/revoker (okay the latter is true for Ugin as well, but they usually don't name Ugin until it's to late). Simply playing more creatures MB helps out a lot i think.

[Skriger]

I really started thinking about utilizing Walking Ballista for removal and another body to toss around. The best strategy I can figure is still under a Trinket Mage type build. 2 feels like a good number to run because of the complex casting cost. Below is a decklist i've done some goldfishing with and feels pretty solid. Doesn't play that clunky, good toolbox features, a bit weak to counter magic unless you can get a Cavern up naming wizard. Feels like most people would allow trinket to go off and then counter the artifact that gets played. I am also using Trophy Mage, This allows to pull decent toolbox pieces like Oblivion Stone, Crucible of Worlds, and Trinisphere. I like the idea of tossing down a mage to dig for a artifact to give you the edge and then having a body for later game. Interestingly, this build could also just replace the Mages for Ancient Stirrings and get almost as good or arguably better card selection. You lose a body but you gain card filtering.


:Turbo Mages:

LAND - 26
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Vesuva

SPELLS - 22
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Pithing Needle
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
4 Brainstorm
2 Candelabra of Tawnos

CREATURES - 12
2 Trinket Mage
2 Trophy Mage
4 Tropical Island
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Walking Ballista


Sideboard - 15
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Krosan Grip
4 Show and Tell
3 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Trinisphere

[Roweboater]

My meta is currently filled with combo, some Aggro, and very little control. I'm finding that my list performs okay but not as well as I would like. Yes I still have some ways to go because I still make a misplay from time to time. (Only been in the magic community for a year). However, I haven't gone negative at any local tournaments yet. I usually break even at 2-2 or sometimes I'll manage a 3-1 but can't manage to hit 3rd or 4th place. The local meta has a high variance, here are the decks:
Sneak and Snow (2)
BR Reanimator (3)
UB Reanimator (1)
Painter (1)
Aluren (1)
Food Chain (1)
Lands (2)
Elves (2)
Infect (2)
Burn (1)
Miracles (1)
Grixis Delver (2)
And there are a couple fringe decks that people play from time to time, but I usually have a good matchup in those. Now, I'm wondering if there are any tweaks that can be made to my deck so it is more prepared against such a combo-heavy meta. Without any further jargon:


Legend
1 x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant
4 x Crop Rotation
4 x Brainstorm

Land
2 x Vesuva
1 x Forest
1 x Glacial Chasm
1 x Bojuka Bog
3 x Misty Rainforest
4 x Cloudpost
1 x Tundra
1 x Cavern of Souls
1 x Plains
4 x Glimmerpost
2 x Windswept Heath
1 x Eye of Ugin
2 x Tropical Island
1 x Karakas
1 x Savannah

Enchantment
2 x Song of the Dryads

Artifact
4 x Sensei's Divining Top
3 x Pithing Needle

Creature
1 x World Breaker
4 x Primeval Titan

Sorcery
4 x Terminus
2 x Preordain
4 x Show and Tell

Sideboard
3 x Krosan Grip
1 x Pulse of Murasa
1 x Surgical Extraction
1 x Spell Pierce
1 x Rest in Peace
3 x Leyline of Sanctity
1 x Cursed Totem
1 x Faerie Macabre
2 x Trinisphere
1 x Moment's Peace

[Emrakul503]

Howdy fellow Posters, it's been awhile since I sleeved this deck up but I'm back to it. I took a long detour in RUG lands, which was most instructive.


RG: My sweetheart build, but here I'm stuck brewing. This is the list I have so far. It's a very rough sketch.


// 8 Artifact
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos

// 9 Creature
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sneak Attack

// 9 Instant
3 Punishing Fire
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moment's Peace

// 28 Land
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Taiga
1 Misty Rainforest

// 4 Sorcery
4 Green Sun's Zenith


// 15 Sideboard
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Krosan Grip
2 Splendid Reclamation

I'd love to have a better RG list, though this one does accomplish my mission. Notice how the sideboard is thrown together? I threw it together.

Mission: destroy Miracles and BUG decks, 50/50 Delver, I don't care how much of a dog I am to combo.

In return for assistance I will test other's builds on cockatrice and provide reports.


I have been trying to jam a RG build off and on for a while. I, too, just returned from a long vacation with RG Combo Lands, and want to try something out like this again. In my experience, having 2-4 Pithing Needles in the 75 is very helpful. I own the deck on MTGO, and often T1 Pithing Needle on Wasteland has won me games. Later in the MU, it can be nice to fend off Lily, Dark Depths (if you are not playing it), Port, etc. I would certainly consider them. I like where this build is going, and will slap together what I can from it to test next week (do not own Spledid Reclemation or Moment's Peace, but may try and pick them up). Would love to hear about how you progress with this deck. There is a lot of BUG Deathrite Shaman, DnT and Delver in my meta, so the P.Fire tech seems good. I was running Kozileks Return, essentially in place of the Moments Peace, and it was treating me rather well. Could be good SB tech too. If I were to take this list out today I would probably do something like:


2 Tireless Tracker
3 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Krosan Grip
2 Splendid Reclamation

and some number of Pithing in the main, maybe 2, and 2 in the side.

[Roweboater]

Just found this list: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00613T/ it went 5-1 in a 59 person tournament. I like the inclusion of 'Planar Bridge'. Anyone have any thoughts on the list? I feel as if it could be a little more refined.

[Zotmaster]

Just found this list: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00613T/ it went 5-1 in a 59 person tournament. I like the inclusion of 'Planar Bridge'. Anyone have any thoughts on the list? I feel as if it could be a little more refined.

I don't hate it. I've been thinking of trying to utilize Planar Bridge somewhere. I'm not a fan of sliding the Depths/Stage combo in, but it could be a stylistic difference as I know some people here like that.

[Rock Lee]

Back to the Legacy scene from an extended Hospitalization and convalensence. Went undeafeated yesterday with this list:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [AER] Walking Ballista

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
2 [US] Show and Tell
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar


Enjoying Walking Ballista immensely. Relic was a beast every matchup. Might go to 3. Sideboard is pretty open-ended still.

[203995014]

Back to the Legacy scene from an extended Hospitalization and convalensence. Went undeafeated yesterday with this list:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [AER] Walking Ballista

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
2 [US] Show and Tell
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar


Enjoying Walking Ballista immensely. Relic was a beast every matchup. Might go to 3. Sideboard is pretty open-ended still.

Very interesting list, how are you using walking ballista in general? When are you casting it?

Also, this is more of a question about 12-post in general but how are you guys dealing with Monastery Mentor? I've been having some trouble recently fighting miracle decks because of this. Gone are the days where playing lands just won you the game.

[k_omega]

Just found this list: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00613T/ it went 5-1 in a 59 person tournament. I like the inclusion of 'Planar Bridge'. Anyone have any thoughts on the list? I feel as if it could be a little more refined.

There are a lot of one-ofs that I disagree with as cards and on the main/sideboard placement, but this list looks like one that could do well with the right matchups. I haven't gotten around to testing Planar Bridge and would like to know how it worked out for this person.


Also, this is more of a question about 12-post in general but how are you guys dealing with Monastery Mentor? I've been having some trouble recently fighting miracle decks because of this. Gone are the days where playing lands just won you the game.

I find myself using Expedition Map for Glacial Chasm a lot more, and I run 3 Swords to Plowshares which are sometimes enough. It also helps to never keep hands without a Cloudpost - you don't have time to mess around digging for them and Counterbalance can stop Crop Rotations and Maps that show up too late. I also have Tabernacle + New Emrakul to wipe their board un-counterably from behind a Chasm.

[Zotmaster]

Also, this is more of a question about 12-post in general but how are you guys dealing with Monastery Mentor? I've been having some trouble recently fighting miracle decks because of this. Gone are the days where playing lands just won you the game.

Yeah, Mentor is extremely obnoxious. Your best options are probably Dismember or Spatial Contortion, although with the latter there's obviously the risk that they can pump Mentor high enough to get past it. Otherwise, your regularly scheduled board wipes and Tabernacle are givens. Elephant Grass is also a card that comes in and out of a lot of our lists: both Griselbrand and Marit Lage are scared of tall grass.

EDIT: If you suspect a Mentor plan, you can be less afraid of Counterbalance: mana spent using Top and attempting to stop mostly CMC 1 spells is mana spent not casting spells that kill you. The chances of at least some, if not all, of the CBs coming out are actually pretty high. It's a calculated risk, but on a Mentor plan the goal is basically to just rush you down before you can set anything up.

[_WD40_]

Back to the Legacy scene from an extended Hospitalization and convalensence. Went undeafeated yesterday with this list:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [AER] Walking Ballista

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
2 [US] Show and Tell
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar


Enjoying Walking Ballista immensely. Relic was a beast every matchup. Might go to 3. Sideboard is pretty open-ended still.

I appreciate you posting this list Rock Lee. I took your list and did some slight modifications through some extensive testing. I have always enjoyed 12 post and Walking Ballista repeeked my interest in a deck like this. To get the best and most competitive testing for me, I tested online against mostly tier 1 decks. I wish I had run into some more Death and Taxes to test against. But Alas, my list and results (25-3) are below:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island
1 Academy Ruins

// Creatures
3 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 [AER] Walking Ballista

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [US] Show and Tell
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm
1 Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Trickbind



MATCHUPS: (The matches where its only 1-0 are one's that the opponent left after the first game.....probably rage quit).

Miracles 2-0
TNN BUG 2-1
Stoneblade TNN 2-1
TNN Sultai 2-1
Miracles 2-0
BUG Leovold 1-0
Dredge 1-0
ANT 0-2
Grixis (w/ TNN) 0-2
Lands 1-0
BR Reanimator 2-1
TNN BUG 1-0
Manaless Dredge2-1
STAX 1-0
UB Reanimator 2-1
Dredge 2-0
Burn 2-1
Miracles 2-0
BUG delver 1-0
Sneak and Show 1-0
Miracles (mentor version) 1-2
Infect 1-0
Land Destruction 2-0
Nic Fit 1-0
BR Reanimator 2-1
Leovold control 2-1
Dragon Stompy 2-1
BR Reanimator 2-0


Overall, pretty good results. Only 3 losses in 28 matches is pretty decent. I agree with some of the recent posts about Mentor. Its a problem. Walking ballista helps sometimes with Mentor, but sometimes mentor comes down pretty early. I still think its a favorable matchup, but not like it used to be. The best matchup (from my somewhat limited testing) seems to be BR reanimator. Especially post board the matchup for them is just brutal. The hardest matchup, again from my limited testing, seems to be the delver matchups, especially Grixis Delver. Turn 1 delver is rough especially backed up by counter magic. I know one of my losses was to ANT, but its seems easier to manage than Grixis Delver. Grixis Delver is definitely winnable, but tough. Quick notes:

*Academy Ruins is beast in this deck
*Don't expect to get my results day 1 (I have lots of 12 post experience)
*I agree with Rock Lee, I really like Relic in this deck (good synergies with Academy Ruins also)
*Often I will take out needles and bring in Trickbind for g2 when opponent brings in artifact removal.

[somethingdotdotdot]

I agree with Rock Lee, I really like Relic in this deck (good synergies with Academy Ruins also)

It exiles itself. Am I missing something?

[into_play]

Back to the Legacy scene from an extended Hospitalization and convalensence. Went undeafeated yesterday with this list:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [AER] Walking Ballista

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
2 [US] Show and Tell
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar


Enjoying Walking Ballista immensely. Relic was a beast every matchup. Might go to 3. Sideboard is pretty open-ended still.

It's good to hear that you are still playing this deck and innovating as usual!

- Would you consider running Force of Will in the sideboard? With your heavy usage of Trinket Mage, you already have a higher blue card count than most lists, which is the biggest challenge for running Force. It is such a good general catch-all against many strategies (no wonder it is one of the flagship cards of Legacy) and it could be especially helpful to have more 0 mana answers these days in the face of BR Reanimator and those kind of shenanigans. I've been a proponent of sideboarding Force for the longest time, so that was the first thing that came to mind!

- I am very interested in how you use Ballista and how it has performed for you. I thought of the card as single target creature removal more than anything, which can double as a huge Fireball-spell win condition in the late game. Two mana to remove any 1-toughness creature, four mana to kill Delver comes to mind. I suppose I am just not convinced that it is an efficient or reliable means of removal, but I have not played it myself and could very well be wrong.

[_WD40_]

It exiles itself. Am I missing something?

The way that it has good synergy is not getting itself back. It is getting anything else back that you need on the same turn. You activate ruins and put target artifact on top of your deck. Then activate relic to draw the card you put on top of your deck (I often find that it is for engineered explosives, but there are many things that could help RIGHT NOW). Anyway, that is the synergy I was talking about. Let's you keep your top in play also and not have to crack it to get card on top.

[Rock Lee]

It's good to hear that you are still playing this deck and innovating as usual!

- Would you consider running Force of Will in the sideboard? With your heavy usage of Trinket Mage, you already have a higher blue card count than most lists, which is the biggest challenge for running Force. It is such a good general catch-all against many strategies (no wonder it is one of the flagship cards of Legacy) and it could be especially helpful to have more 0 mana answers these days in the face of BR Reanimator and those kind of shenanigans. I've been a proponent of sideboarding Force for the longest time, so that was the first thing that came to mind!

- I am very interested in how you use Ballista and how it has performed for you. I thought of the card as single target creature removal more than anything, which can double as a huge Fireball-spell win condition in the late game. Two mana to remove any 1-toughness creature, four mana to kill Delver comes to mind. I suppose I am just not convinced that it is an efficient or reliable means of removal, but I have not played it myself and could very well be wrong.

The initial build had Fow main, then fow side then fow removed. 12post mostly operates off of parity, and non-parity cards need to be game-changing. This isn't to say I won't run it, but if I did, it would need an enormous reason. (omni becoming meta dominant again for example)

This is the list I've been tuning with since my weekly wins:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [AER] Walking Ballista

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [NPH] Dismember
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 1 [AER] Walking Ballista

the 3 1-of sideboard slots are wildly variable atm.

[Rock Lee]

Went undefeated 3-0 in weekly legacy with this list against Miracles, Tin Fins, Soldier aggro (similar to eldrazi aggro):

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [AER] Walking Ballista
1 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [MMA] Thirst for Knowledge
1 [UGF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [10E] Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [V13] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle

This build felt much stronger than my build two weeks ago. Never felt outmatched. My only game loss was to Tin fins having the nuts vs me (probe, therapy (for my crop rotate), land, dark rit, entomb, shallow grave into draw 14, lotus petal rit entomb shallow grave emrakul kill me).

Only change might be to put an EE somewhere in there.

[Postman]

Mr. Ivan Cane made it to the Top 4 @mkm series milan 2017!

Here is his list: http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/2017/03/19/ivan-cane-big-eldrazi-ramp/

It's a colorless ramp list, straight forward. Seems to work^^

[MGB]

Mr. Ivan Cane made it to the Top 4 @mkm series milan 2017!

Here is his list: http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/2017/03/19/ivan-cane-big-eldrazi-ramp/

It's a colorless ramp list, straight forward. Seems to work^^

Different deck, has it's own thread - BigEldrazi in New & Developmental.

We also discussed simialr variations of the deck (focused on Voltaic Key + Monoliths) in the MUD thread in Established Decks. It's definitely more of a MUD strategy than a 12post strategy.

[MGB]

Went undefeated 3-0 in weekly legacy with this list against Miracles, Tin Fins, Soldier aggro (similar to eldrazi aggro):

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [AER] Walking Ballista
1 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [MMA] Thirst for Knowledge
1 [UGF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [10E] Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [V13] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle

This build felt much stronger than my build two weeks ago. Never felt outmatched. My only game loss was to Tin fins having the nuts vs me (probe, therapy (for my crop rotate), land, dark rit, entomb, shallow grave into draw 14, lotus petal rit entomb shallow grave emrakul kill me).

Only change might be to put an EE somewhere in there.

Are you planning on taking this to SCG Worcester?

[Rock Lee]

Are you planning on taking this to SCG Worcester?

absolutely. perhaps with 1-2 tweaks. but overall the build is very strong. went 2-1 today in another weekly event. my loss being to accidentally siding out glacial chasm vs miracles and getting it with a titan only to not have it and die to mentor beats in 2 turns. The deck did great though. I failed it.

[Cyborg]

Rock what do you think about running crucible somewhere in the list so that you can pitch lands to thirst for knowledge and not care. (maybe conflicting with relic)
Was thinking move the bridges to the side and replace them with crucibles since you can still crop rotate into glacial chasm main board.

[k_omega]

After a middling performance at a local win-a-mox and scraping into prizes at Eternal Extravaganza 6 I am looking at moving from G/W Zenith Post to a U/G build. Now, what has bothered me in the past about U/G is that shuffling away junk after Brainstorm is awkward due to the low number of truly incidental shuffle effects (and shuffle effects in general). For example, sometimes you have to Crop Rotate/crack Map for the shuffle when the otherwise correct play would be to leave the Crop Rotation/Map unused.

On the other hand, Oracle of Mul Daya has been very good to me in GW and I've wanted to play Courser of Kruphix for the similar effect and lifegain but haven't found something I'm happy to cut for it. Also, GSZ is a shuffle effect that Brainstorm actually improves because you can finally do something useful with Dryad Arbors that you have drawn. So I propose a U/G build that incorporates Brainstorm and Show and Tell (the other reason I want to play blue) with a Zenith + Courser/Oracle plan. Such a deck would rely less on Brainstorm + shuffle because you can put back lands then play them off the top, turning Brainstorm into Ancestral Recall.

Sketch of a decklist:

1 New Emrakul, Old Emrakul, New Ulamog
2 Ugin
4 Primeval Titan
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Dryad Arbor
(14 bombs & support creatures)

4 Crop Rotation, Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm
3 GSZ, Show and Tell
2 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra
(21 support spells)

4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Tropical Island, Misty Rainforest
2 Vesuva, Cavern of Souls, Forest
1 Karakas, Island, Glacial Chasm, Thespian's Stage, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Tabernacle
(29 lands)

You might notice that this list has 64 cards, which brings me to my question for all of you. Keeping the concept intact (Brainstorm and S&T with Zenith + Oracle/Courser), what would you cut and why? This list has everything I want to be doing and I need fresh eyes to see what I might be blind to.

[Cyborg]

@k_omega
I would cut veteran explorer, 1 cavern of souls, 1 snt, and the thespian stage.
Explorer doesn't really do what it's supposed to do without some sort of sacrifice outlet. Extra cavern of souls don't really do a lot when you have maps also the only thing that you ever really name on the cavern is going to be giant in this list anyways. 2 show and tells although it feels weird keeps you from having a bunch of them clogging up your hand while still giving the deck the ability to get through mana denial. And thespian stage feels lost without dark depths to keep it company you may as well run more vesuvas if you want to do that.
fiddle around with it with your friends in play testing you can do a bunch of different stuff with this deck.
cheers.
edit: if you wanna run exploders i've been fiddling around with a bg list
probably a little janky tho

2x Ancient Stirrings (ROE)
1x Bayou (LEA)
1x Bojuka Bog (WWK)
4x Cabal Therapy (JUD)
4x Cloudpost (MRD)
4x Crop Rotation (ULG)
1x Dryad Arbor (FUT)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (ROE)
4x Expedition Map (ZEN)
1x Exploration (USG)
1x Eye of Ugin (WWK)
6x Forest (LEA)
1x Glacial Chasm (ICE)
4x Glimmerpost (SOM)
4x Green Sun's Zenith (MBS)
1x Karakas (LEG)
1x Oracle of Mul Daya (ZEN)
4x Primeval Titan (M11)
2x Sensei's Divining Top (CHK)
1x Swamp (LEA)
1x Sylvan Library (LEG)
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (BFZ)
4x Verdant Catacombs (ZEN)
2x Vesuva (TSP)
4x Veteran Explorer (WTH)

[Postman]

@k_omega
I would cut veteran explorer, 1 cavern of souls, 1 snt, and the thespian stage.
Explorer doesn't really do what it's supposed to do without some sort of sacrifice outlet. Extra cavern of souls don't really do a lot when you have maps also the only thing that you ever really name on the cavern is going to be giant in this list anyways. 2 show and tells although it feels weird keeps you from having a bunch of them clogging up your hand while still giving the deck the ability to get through mana denial. And thespian stage feels lost without dark depths to keep it company you may as well run more vesuvas if you want to do that.
fiddle around with it with your friends in play testing you can do a bunch of different stuff with this deck.
cheers.
edit: if you wanna run exploders i've been fiddling around with a bg list
probably a little janky tho

2x Ancient Stirrings (ROE)
1x Bayou (LEA)
1x Bojuka Bog (WWK)
4x Cabal Therapy (JUD)
4x Cloudpost (MRD)
4x Crop Rotation (ULG)
1x Dryad Arbor (FUT)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (ROE)
4x Expedition Map (ZEN)
1x Exploration (USG)
1x Eye of Ugin (WWK)
6x Forest (LEA)
1x Glacial Chasm (ICE)
4x Glimmerpost (SOM)
4x Green Sun's Zenith (MBS)
1x Karakas (LEG)
1x Oracle of Mul Daya (ZEN)
4x Primeval Titan (M11)
2x Sensei's Divining Top (CHK)
1x Swamp (LEA)
1x Sylvan Library (LEG)
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (BFZ)
4x Verdant Catacombs (ZEN)
2x Vesuva (TSP)
4x Veteran Explorer (WTH)
When it comes to adding black, please give Toxic Deluge a try. I'm still on BUG Post with Abrupt Decay and Toxic Deluge. Decay is sweet, as it handles a lot of problems. But Deluge is a BOMB. Usually I have to pay 2 life, sometimes 3 to clean the board (and trade like 1:3).

Gesendet von meinem ONEPLUS A3003 mit Tapatalk

[Rock Lee]

I remain happy with my u/g build for the upcoming open. Been messing around with a g/w renegade rallier/ eldrazi displacer list in the meantime. Will post a list in the next day.

[maCHOOga]

I remain happy with my u/g build for the upcoming open. Been messing around with a g/w renegade rallier/ eldrazi displacer list in the meantime. Will post a list in the next day.

I've been testing a GW build on MTGO with a 1x Renegade Rallier in preparation for the next win-a-mox. Even as a one-of, it adds a new dimension the deck didn't have before.

Definitely curious to share ideas. :-)

[203995014]

How are you guys playing against the new builds of the lands deck that have 4 mainboard Ghost Quarter now? I've been easily beating lands in the past when the only card to worry about was wasteland and the marit lage, but with their new angle it's hard to tell how to pick your battles. Tireless trackers are also a real nuisance g2 and 3. I'm using a build that plays Trickbind mainboard instead of Repeal if that matters.

[k_omega]

How are you guys playing against the new builds of the lands deck that have 4 mainboard Ghost Quarter now? I've been easily beating lands in the past when the only card to worry about was wasteland and the marit lage, but with their new angle it's hard to tell how to pick your battles. Tireless trackers are also a real nuisance g2 and 3. I'm using a build that plays Trickbind mainboard instead of Repeal if that matters.

I (with GW) play against it much the same: In the early game grind down their graveyard and snag their Loams with Bojuka Bog + Vesuva, developing my own land base in whatever way is convenient, not necessarily going for quick Cloudposts. Once they're in topdeck mode then resolve any threat. If they present more Ghost Quarters than Wastelands in the early turns I fetch nonbasics so that Ghost Quarter can turn them into basics that are invulnerable to subsequent Wastelands, which helps keep my land count higher. Post-board I keep 2 Ugins to answer Tireless Trackers, in addition to the 3 maindeck StP. I also prefer to put Needles on Thespian's Stage, since naming Wasteland doesn't shut down all the land destruction anyway.

[Prdgychild]

I (with GW) play against it much the same: In the early game grind down their graveyard and snag their Loams with Bojuka Bog + Vesuva, developing my own land base in whatever way is convenient, not necessarily going for quick Cloudposts. Once they're in topdeck mode then resolve any threat. If they present more Ghost Quarters than Wastelands in the early turns I fetch nonbasics so that Ghost Quarter can turn them into basics that are invulnerable to subsequent Wastelands, which helps keep my land count higher. Post-board I keep 2 Ugins to answer Tireless Trackers, in addition to the 3 maindeck StP. I also prefer to put Needles on Thespian's Stage, since naming Wasteland doesn't shut down all the land destruction anyway.

I understand the meta dependent builds of any deck but can we get some GW lists? last one I saw came from japan and it was sweet playing a one of planar bridge. Whats everyone doing these days with G/W?!

[k_omega]

I understand the meta dependent builds of any deck but can we get some GW lists? last one I saw came from japan and it was sweet playing a one of planar bridge. Whats everyone doing these days with G/W?!

Very well. Here's what I played at EE6 (went 5-3):

4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Forest
3 Green fetches
2 Vesuva, Savannah, Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas, Thespian's Stage, Khalni Garden, Eye of Ugin, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle

4 Primeval Titan
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Veteran Explorer, Reclamation Sage, Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Old Emrakul, New Emrakul, New Ulamog

2 Ugin
4 Top, Crop Rotation
3 Green Sun's Zenith, Swords to Plowshares
2 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle, Candelabra

Sideboard:
3 Leyline of Sanctity, Trinisphere
2 Krosan Grip, Rest in Peace, Pithing Needle
1 Dawnstrider, Dragonlord Dromoka, Engineered Explosives

I cut Warping Wail because it never seemed to do enough and I replaced the two copies with a third StP and a Pithing Needle, which I used to not run in the maindeck but I wanted more G1 action against Sneak Attack. Needle is also pretty helpful against the 4c control lists that are beginning to show up. Now that the meta has shifted away from Eldrazi I think the Zenith + Veteran Explorer/Rec Sage package could be cut - I boarded out Explorer a lot and also kept it in games where I should not have. If I were to cut them I would replace them with 4 Ancient Stirrings and a Moment's Peace, and get rid of the weird green creatures in the sideboard for a Krosan Grip and a second Moment's Peace.