[Deck] 12 Post

[Mr. Froggy]

Personally I never played gr. Maybe you can try rock lee’s punishing fire / inferno titan build, if you’re not happy with your list?

No no, I am happy with my list, just wondering what you guys thought of it. Where do you think it could improve?

Also, could you link me Rock Lee's list? I would be curious to see what it looks like.

[Valleysdai]

Had an fnm tournament yesterday and took UG post. I did quite poor 1-3, it was a mixture of bad hands (I'm not good at mulligan decisions haha) and unfortunate draws.

R1 infect 0-2
G1 he goes all in and I crop for a maze to stop it. The he proceeds to build as my draws splutter.

G2 he slowly ticks up and when I try to maze he gives hexproof and pumps

R2 mono black 0-2

The deck is all about discard and value creatures like nighthawk

G1 he hymns me a few times and I lose needed lands and get poked to death by 2/Xs

G2 I get chasm and have to sacrifice it on my last turn where I hope to draw a glimmer post for life gain, I get and play dark depths, I see a possible out and during his attack step I mirage mirror as a copy of dark depths but he wastelands in response to the trigger.

R3 miracles

G1 we both build up our resources, I mapped for tabernacle a couple turns before they miracle entreat for 4 with a monastery mentor and jtms onboard, by that time I had enough to play tabernacle and emrakul the promised end. They counter the emrakul but I take their turn and sax all their guys, then give them only lands. NeXT turn newlamog and scoop.

G2 - they got an early back to basics and I had an amulet of vigor in play (thankfully) so I built up and staged/vesuva'd to get more basics while getting glimmer posts to prevent and in the end remove all the poke damage. In turns I cast prime time and they scooped.

R4 tin fins

G1 they can't find their combo and I get infinite turns.

G2 & 3 I try to stop them but they combo and win.

Overall I have made a list if tests to try out (quite spicy choices) and cut either cards that were bad or that had enough redundancy/ lowers me keeping bad hands.

[MechTactical]

No no, I am happy with my list, just wondering what you guys thought of it. Where do you think it could improve?

Also, could you link me Rock Lee's list? I would be curious to see what it looks like.

Sorry it was actually bGR http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi&p=1022145&viewfull=1#post1022145 although punishing fire / inferno seem like excellent inclusions for a list running red.

[Mr. Froggy]

I changed up my list a bit and have been having roughly 70%W/30%L with the deck. Match ups I've been struggling with are: Grixis Delver and Combo. The rest of the meta is fair game I'd say. Late game with this deck is completely nuts.

[Mockingbird]

For those that splash red, what's your thought on the new blood sun enchantment?

http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Blood-Sun-216x302.png

It's a mixed bag.

Pros:
It stops Wasteland
Clouldpost comes into play untapped and still taps for a lot of mana.

Cons:
Kills OUR utility Lands, including Glimmerpost's trigger, Vesuva, and Eye of Ugin.

It's probably worth testing, but I suspect a deck utilizing it and Cloudpost would look a lot different than a standard control build.

[into_play]

I posted this on the 12Post FB group a few days ago, which is my typical first place I go to post news about the deck.

Even though it's been two weeks since GP Santa Clara, it's still important for me to share the results from my Legacy portion of the team event. My teammates, Bryan Rockenbach and Sam Wolloch, are serious grinders of all Magic tournament formats and played Temur Energy in Standard and Storm in Modern, respectively. Even though they both play Legacy frequently, they sought my talents for the eternal format, which I play exclusively. Kudos to both of those guys for not only playing a solid 14 rounds of Magic, but allowing and even supporting my choice of deck, a relatively untested BUG version of 12Post. This is the list that I took to the event:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm

3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Show and Tell
4 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Expedition Map

Sideboard:
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
1 Show and Tell
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Despite only playing the list in a small local tournament and a few Legacy leagues online beforehand, I was still able to achieve a 9-5 personal record at the GP, contributing to a team record of 10-4 and a 15th place finish. My experience with the 12Post archetype in general, combined with the new removal effects provided by the black splash, reassured me of the strategy's power in a post-Top world. It also gave me a breath of fresh air for the archetype; the deck plays a little different than Post builds of old and presents a welcome challenge for me going forward.

Here's a list of my fourteen matchups, my personal result, and the team's result for that round:

Day 1
Round 1 - Burn (Won, Team Won)
Round 2 - Infect (Lost, Team Won)
Round 3 - RUG Delver (Lost, Team Won)
Round 4 - UW RIP/Helm Combo (Won, Team Won)
Round 5 - Sneak and Show (Lost, Team Won)
Round 6 - Grixis Delver (Won, Team Won)
Round 7 - BUG Delver (Won, Team Won)
Round 8 - Sneak and Show (Lost, Team Lost)

Day 2
Round 9 - Czech Pile (Won, Team Won)
Round 10 - 4C (no R) Stoneblade (Won, Team Lost)
Round 11 - Sneak and Show (Lost, Team Lost)
Round 12 - Turbo Depths (Won, Team Won)
Round 13 - RG Lands (this was Jarvis Yu) (Won, Team Won)
Round 14 - Grixis Delver (Won, Team Lost)

As you can see, I was carried on the first day by my teammates, but was able to redeem myself and play much better for the team on the second. There's plenty of things for me to think about regarding the list in the future, but three critical issues came to mind right after the tournament:

1) The build's weakness to Sneak and Show. Sneak and Show has always been a rough matchup for 12Post, but this version in particular is especially cold to it. I intend to play a Post build at large GP/SCG Legacy tournaments, and Sneak and Show will most definitely be prevalent, especially in he hands of pros at GP's. I'm not yet sure if I can simply swap some sideboard cards, or if an entire change in philosophy or playstyle is necessary. But I lost all three of my matches against the deck and definitely need to change something.

2) Pithing Needles should be maindeck. Maindecking at least three Needles was something I always did with all previous 12Post versions. After seeing the original BUG list that I based mine around, I was skeptical of only two copies of Needle in the board. Since I was already going out on such a limb trying this new build, I decided to stick with most of the original card choices and only run the two sideboard Needles. In hindsight, I should have went with my conscience on this. Needle has always been a great safety blanket against the most prevalent hate card, Wasteland. Even having them in matchups where you don't need it (and you can usually find at least something to name with it) still does not outweigh the relief of having one when you do need it. Also, Needle is at its best during game one, when the opponent is unlikely to have much artifact removal for it. Lastly, the aforementioned Sneak and Show matchup is at least helped a bit by including Needle. During the first game, they cannot remove a resolved Needle. If I can see that they are on Sneak and Show soon enough and can land a Needle, then they are forced to go the more dangerous Show and Tell route to victory.

3) Uncertainty over Deathrite Shaman inclusion. Whenever I was able to use a Deathrite for mana-making unhindered, he was incredible. More often than not, however, there was some sort of limitation to using him. Sometimes he would eat an otherwise dead removal spell (Lightning Bolt would be okay, preserving my life total a bit, but giving Fatal Push a target felt so bad). But his most typical drawback would be being negated by an opposing Deathrite. Usually a bright opponent would realize that I would need him to make mana, and would always keep their Deathrite up to cut me off a mana. Perhaps just doing the same to the opponent makes Deathrite worthwhile for me? Though having him did have its advantages. As an extra body, there were times where he would prevent Liliana of the Veil from being an out against an otherwise single big creature. He can even be a blocker against an unflipped Delver or a Glistener Elf. The verdict is still out on whether Deathrite Shaman should be included at all.

Again, I apologize for responding so late about the Grand Prix, but better late than never I guess. I will go back and answer the questions over this build that I neglected a month ago. This tournament performance, while not my best, was still successful and a ton of fun, and I look forward to fine-tuning the BUG list even more.

[into_play]

You have beaten me to the punch on experimenting with BUG, so I have some questions:

1) I've been skeptical of Toxic Deluge because of the life cost - did you find that to be a problem?
2) What is your evaluation of Collective Brutality in a BUG build?
3) How helpful is the one-of Sylvan Library?


How much worthwhile discussion goes on in the Facebook group that does not also happen here? I'm not on Facebook so I want to know what I'm missing.

So sorry that this is over a month later, but at least I have more data to provide in that time.

1) I was concerned about the life loss of Toxic Deluge at first as well, but in practice, the amount of life you pay is well worth it. I typically find myself casting it for 2 life, to remove everything on a Grixis Delver board besides Angler. Occasionally I'll end up paying 3, in order to wipe Leovold and company. Again, a manageable amount. Deluge is similar to Glacial Chasm in that you need to plan accordingly when choosing to use it, specifically not playing it too late. Anytime you can afford to risk the life loss, Deluge has proven to be incredible, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it show up more frequently in control builds that can fit it in (not just 12Post). It's an extremely versatile creature removal spell that really is only limited by the cost of life. I think only in a matchup like Eldrazi Stompy, where opponents are actually casting larger midrange creatures would the life loss be too much.

2) I have not tried Collective Brutality yet, but it seems worthy of testing due to its versatility. I would probably use the Duress and Disfigure modes together if I could afford to pitch another card. The card might be in competition for spots with Thoughtseize, which others have recommended that I try with a black splash.

3) The one-of Sylvan Library was basically a replacement for the third Ponder. There are several reasons and situations that I prefer Ponder over Library: it is a better topdeck late in the game when you want action right away, it ups the blue count for Force of Will, and it can be flashbacked via Snapcaster. Library is a decent replacement for Top once it gets in play, but I hate the idea of including more than one and possibly drawing a second one within the course of the game. I know a lot of people still include multiple Libraries (in other decks as well) despite being bad in multiples, so maybe I should reconsider running more. The times Library did show up and was not countered or destroyed, it was excellent.

I have noticed that the information on the FB group is comparable to what you find on here. Different information, but comparable in usefulness. It's worth making an account if you want to receive max information on this build we all love.

[into_play]

I mean it happened with treasure cruise! With the addition of black to the manabase, I'm shocked you aren't playing duress/thoughtseize/collective brutality to help out in the combo matchups.

Speaking of which, I've contemplated building a GB 12post deck for quite some time, as it gives access to hand disruption and creature removal, I never could come up with a list I liked.

Thank you for the suggestion. I think some discard spells would make use of the inclusion of black, more than just the board control it provides in my current list. As far as combo hate, I have always found discard to be subpar to counterspells, however (in all flavors of decks).

[Valleysdai]

The build's weakness to Sneak and Show. Sneak and Show has always been a rough matchup for 12Post, but this version in particular is especially cold to it. I intend to play a Post build at large GP/SCG Legacy tournaments, and Sneak and Show will most definitely be prevalent, especially in he hands of pros at GP's. I'm not yet sure if I can simply swap some sideboard cards, or if an entire change in philosophy or playstyle is necessary. But I lost all three of my matches against the deck and definitely need to change something.

I like your build and congrats at the GP. I'll be heading to GP London (EDIT: it is my first GP) at the weekend and I'm aiming to run the UG version with a couple of interesting alterations that could actually help in various match ups (S&T included).

I did some testing against miracles and dragon stomp. The results were extremely promising and I managed to get one of the best case scenarios to occur.

[MechTactical]

@into_play

Thanks for your feedback. I was getting nervous since it took soo long. :laugh: Congrats once more on the finish.

1) The build's weakness to Sneak and Show.
The list is weak to red in general in my experience. That's probably why Steve included 2x BEB, and I've been happy running two copies in the board. Though, i guess we could run more red hate. Maybe go for beb over FOW?

2) Pithing Needles should be main deck.
I would tend to disagree on this issue. The deck space is so limited I don't see what I could cut to incorporate three needles. Currently, I'm happy with two in the board. However, I do agree that needle is a great card for the deck.

3) Uncertainty over Deathrite Shaman inclusion.
Because we often use shaman exclusively as a mana producer (we don't need to drain our opponents or gain life, though it's sometimes handy), I've started to test a build with Birds of paradise and Sylvan Caryatid. Currently, i still can't say if I would drop shaman, but it may be the way to go forward. The combined mana producing/fixing power of those two helps speed out those titans and fight moon/magus/B2B. Correction: Forgot to mention that Shaman does offer GY hate against many decks so that's another plus for him over birds/caryatid.

1) I was concerned about the life loss of Toxic Deluge
Toxic deluge is the linchpin of BUG post and probably the best black card we can run. I tried to run more than two main board, but it didn't feel right on the mana curve. I've beaten Eldrazi stompy with it as well. I don't see a problem paying 5 or even more life in some situations. We can quickly recover when titan goes online.

2) I have not tried Collective Brutality
I've tested with brutality but didn't like it. We often don't have a card to pitch (same goes for fow), and the one for one removal just doesn't seem to do enough on the curve at 2cmc. Additionally, it discards only sorceries and instants, so that's another weakness of the card. I don't like discard for our deck in general. Though Steve did include two thoughtseize in the latest build, I don't use it, since we have enough ways of fighting combo, against which discard would be used in my modest opinion. Though I may have been misboarding it and I should board it in against other decks as well?

3) The one-of Sylvan Library
I am still not sure whether to use one or two. The card is so powerful that I think two is the right number. If nothing else every opponent forces it if he can, so it's a good counter magnet to clear the way forward. Currently, i'm running two.

P.s. I also tested night's whisper as a one-off. It got me out of many ugly top deck situations. What are your thought's about this card?
P.p.s. I tried to include Baleful Strix in my BUG FoW attempts. How do you feel about running this bird?

[k_omega]

3) The one-of Sylvan Library was basically a replacement for the third Ponder. There are several reasons and situations that I prefer Ponder over Library: it is a better topdeck late in the game when you want action right away, it ups the blue count for Force of Will, and it can be flashbacked via Snapcaster. Library is a decent replacement for Top once it gets in play, but I hate the idea of including more than one and possibly drawing a second one within the course of the game. I know a lot of people still include multiple Libraries (in other decks as well) despite being bad in multiples, so maybe I should reconsider running more. The times Library did show up and was not countered or destroyed, it was excellent.


I think 1 copy of Library is best. Assuming it stays in play, the card selection over multiple turns is worth more than a one-shot cantrip in my experience. After my last post I have also decided to never run more than one though.


@into_play

Thanks for your feedback. I was getting nervous since it took soo long. :laugh: Congrats once more on the finish.

1) The build's weakness to Sneak and Show.
The list is weak to red in general in my experience. That's probably why Steve included 2x BEB, and I've been happy running two copies in the board. Though, i guess we could run more red hate. Maybe go for beb over FOW?

2) Pithing Needles should be main deck.
I would tend to disagree on this issue. The deck space is so limited I don't see what I could cut to incorporate three needles. Currently, I'm happy with two in the board. However, I do agree that needle is a great card for the deck.

[...]

P.s. I also tested night's whisper as a one-off. It got me out of many ugly top deck situations. What are your thought's about this card?
P.p.s. I tried to include Baleful Strix in my BUG FoW attempts. How do you feel about running this bird?

1) I had one BEB in my sideboard when I experimented with Cgu and U/G builds and was very impressed by it.
2) Some brief testing shows that -2 Snapcaster and +2 Needle from into_play's list seems to work well. Snapcaster was too taxing on the colored mana anyway when I played it.
Night's Whisper) I would play it if I were playing straight BG, but if I had access to U I think more Ponders would be better.
Baleful Strix) Depends entirely on how often it dies to a removal spell, but I think it could work.

[aedrew]

I feel like I am missing something with Glacial Chasm. Outside of a few matchups like Burn or Infect, I find that preventing damage for a turn or two is just counterbalanced by the loss of two mana-producing lands and opening hands with it often feel like mulligans. Can those with experience offer some tips and tricks of how to make the best use of this card?

[Valleysdai]

Results from first day of side events (at my first gp) with my spicy brew, the decklist is available if wanted.

Double up event - used a different deck went 1-1-1, tested post against BR reanimator for the friendly games after IDing - seems like a very favoured match up.

Interim - traded most of my cards to almost finish the deck (4 cards left that I can borrow).

Regular legacy side event - 2-0-1

R1 - Czech pile 2-1

Game 1 - I have what appears to be a good turn 4 win until hymn hits cards that slow me down. I play several threats which get dealt with but marit lage gets there.

Sb - + 2 noxious revival + 2 warping wail - 2 intuition - glacial chasm -amulet

G2 - he gets discard spell to slow my hand down enough that a true name gets there. I was 1 turn away from winning.

Sb - intuitions back in - maze - amulet

Game 3 : he gets strix with a jitte beating face. As the beating commences I get to 6 lands, 1 of which is a cavern on giant (jitte is on 6 counters) and cast prime time. I work out I can survive 1 more turn so get 2 cloud post to be at 10 mana. He promptly removes the counters to kill prime time, next turn I cast newlamog which exiles jitte (he removed a counter to kill strix and gain life in response to the target of strix and jitte). Newlamog gets countered. Next turn new kozilek, draw 6 and get enough mana for old emrakul

R2 - Czech pile 2-1

Game 1 - same as R1 Game 1

Sb - +2 noxious revival +2 warping wail - glacial chasm -2 amulet - maze

Game 2 - same as R1 game 2 except with leovold not True name.

Sb - none

Game 3 - he answers my early game threats, and has me locked down with jace, I track my card type in graveyard for new emrakul and as jace gets to 13 loyalty I top deck trop (he forgot about the discount). He snapcaster targeting red elemental blast to destroy his jace. I cast his pithing needle naming jace. He has force in hand but didn't pitch snappy to it.

R3 - ID burn (friendlies went 2-0)

Game 1 I get glacial chasm from prime time and the rest was straight forward

Game 2 - we both kept bad hands, in the end he had 8 creatures (2 guides, 2 swiftspears and 4 eidolon) and I had 4 max of iths (1 maze, 2 vesuva, 1 stage) and 6 other lands and candelabra.

Overall I'm really surprised and amazed at how the deck performed and the spicy cards won me a lot of games.

I currently have 3 stifle side board but I'm thinking of only having 1 and 1 warping wail.

[MechTactical]

Here's a bant list I've started to work on after seeing Mr. Enero's list (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18276&d=313308&f=LE). I've made a few changes and the list still needs work.
I kind of miss the utility lands now and then (bojuka, glacial), but i feel that without crop - snt Titan + knight are too slow to get the most out of them. By t3 you can easily have an ooze oozing on their GY about the same time you can get bojuka on the ground in this crop-less build. terminus + mirri is proving a fantastic combination for a bant post build. If I'm not setting up terminus, i'm setting up SnT titan or GSZ - hate or just plain old cloudpost drops. The gsz - ramp is just enough for this thing to be fast and not get mana screwed. Any thoughts?

1 [RAV:153] Birds of Paradise
1 [ONS:316] Flooded Strand
4 [ZEN:220] Misty Rainforest
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
1 [FUT:174] Dryad Arbor
4 [TMP:130] Mirri's Guile
2 [ZEN:249] Forest
1 [MMA:178] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [USG:96] Show and Tell
1 [MM3:54] Temporal Mastery
4 [FNMP:120] Cloudpost
1 [LEG:248] Karakas
2 [3ED:303] Tropical Island
1 [TSP:281] Vesuva
1 [LRW:248] Gaddock Teeg
1 [THS:180] Sylvan Caryatid
4 [EMA:169] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [2ED:293] Savannah
2 [ONS:328] Windswept Heath
1 [MM3:134] Scavenging Ooze
1 [ROE:4] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [WWK:136] Eye of Ugin
1 [ZEN:233] Plains
4 [M12:188] Primeval Titan
2 [EMA:187] Sylvan Library
1 [ZEN:234] Island
4 [MM3:26] Terminus
1 [BFZ:15] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [SOM:227] Glimmerpost
1 [LEA:294] Tundra

SB: 1 [ALA:10] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [MM2:99] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [MGDC:39] Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 [ME2:37] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [EMN:13] Blessed Alliance
SB: 1 [ARB:8] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [RTR:18] Rest in Peace
SB: 1 [DKA:24] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 [TSP:202] Krosan Grip

[Mr. Froggy]

Alright after much needed tinkering and testing here is my new Gr Cloudpost deck!

Lands: 25
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
5x Forest
3x Taiga
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Vesuva

Creatures: 8
4x Primeval Titan
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking

Others: 27
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Library
3x Warping Wail
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ancient Stirrings
3x Kozilek's Return
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Sorcerous Spyglass

SB: 15
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Choke
3x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Krosan Grip
1x Reclamation Sage

I'm really happy with this list but I've been wanting to find room for a Glacial Chasm.

Any thoughts?

[Valleysdai]

What are the cards you use against fast combo decks (such as storm)?

I have 1 stifle and 1 flusterstorm and am currently trying notion thief and if I can get any some root maze (I run amulet of vigor so it would be quite 1 sided in my favour)

[Mr. Froggy]

What are the cards you use against fast combo decks (such as storm)?

I have 1 stifle and 1 flusterstorm and am currently trying notion thief and if I can get any some root maze (I run amulet of vigor so it would be quite 1 sided in my favour)

I try to land an early Thorn and try to lock them out from killing me, if possible

[k_omega]

I took a very slight variant (-2 Snapcaster, +2 Needle and a different SB) of into_play's BUG list to FNM today and due to horrible matchups went 1-2, but I think the deck has some potential. I played:

4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva, Thespian's Stage
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea, Bayou, Island, Forest
1 Eye of Ugin, Karakas, Cavern of Souls, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm

3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Show and Tell
4 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Expedition Map

Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Trinisphere
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Matchups were BR Reanimator (1-2), Mono-Red Blood Moon/Blood Sun/Magus of the Moon with rituals into Deus of Calamity (1-2), and BUG Leovold (2-1).

Observations:

The BR Reanimator matchup is terrible. I won game 2 on the back of an early Crop Rotation -> Karakas while he failed to find an Entomb. Toxic Deluge saved me from death by Ashen Rider, but the real all-star is Sylvan Library which let me hide Ulamog from discard while digging for lands. Sideboarding is awkward because I don't want creatures that can get discarded and reanimated, but that leaves only Emrakul. I did not see a Deathrite or a Surgical during the match, so the matchup might be better than it seemed at the time.
Deathrite Shaman is wonderful. Being a second colored source under Moon effects was crucial and against BUG it negated the mana loss from being Wastelanded, in particular providing the second green for a T4 Titan.
New Kozilek was underwhelming. While the prospect of drawing more cards and countering relevant spells is enticing, it does very little to improve a board where you are already substantially behind. At every time where I could have cast New Kozilek, the old version would have drawn the same number of cards and affected the board less. New Kozilek makes more sense in C/g builds that often end up with no cards in hand.


Changes:
No changes for the time being, but I am considering trying Flusterstorms in place of the sideboard spheres which I have always played. Flusterstorm players: why do you like that card and in what matchups do you bring it in?

[aedrew]

Flusterstorm players: why do you like that card and in what matchups do you bring it in?


I have been liking Flusterstorm more and more, going from 3 to 4 in the board.
It is good against combo like Reanimator and ANT. Against Reanimator, you can keep up U turn 1 and counter a key spell through a Canceller tax with the copy.
I bring them in versus Burn and fair decks with discard. It's a good way to stop Hymn and K Command.

[Mr. Froggy]

I've been trying GB now and as of yet the results have been good. Will post later with more info.

[MechTactical]

I'm currently tackling two versions of bant post. One without GSZ and one with GSZ. The one without GSZ initially didn't include terminus. i experimented with [[personal tutor]] to bring up SNT alongside [[Eladamri's Call]] for fetching all creatures including elesh instead of using GSZ, then i realized it could be used to bring up some serious white sorceries not just snt. there are other considerations besides terminus, but terminus seems to be the best choice. currently i'm quite happy with the results. Still tweaking the list in terms of numbers and sideboard choices, but i have a good feeling about this bant list. the addition of two extra tutors helps a lot in a topless build. Currently I'm running two eladamri's and two personal tutors + 2 terminus. I'm especially intrigued about eladamri's call. It won me many games. Usually i just beat ppl down with repeated titans in other cases elesh was required or ulamog /emrakul (even caryatid for mana fixing - i had gaddock in for a long time, but i moved him to the board, though i feel he could still be main boarded since it's a blow out game 1 against storm - comes down a bit slower than in the GSZ version) if you have no access to eye or it gets destroyed. Being an instant that allows you to fetch on their EOT is amazing... the color requirements are big, but with 3x noble heirarch + 2x sylvan caryatid i feel confident. Still the occasional (usually self inflicted) mana screw does happen. I also ran iona, but i cut her in the latest builds since she's much harder to hard cast than elesh and your new kozilek plays a similar role. elesh on the other hand is brutal against elves and stuff like BladewingX pointed out earlier, and can still be hard cast. i ran birds of paradise b4 changing to noble hierarch. Still i feel that birds might be a better choice since we don't really benefit that much from exalted and it doesn't have flying ( sometimes i used birds to block flyers in a pinch).
oh and i also think i like silence currently in the side very spicy against combo and also good to protect against counter magic - its a mini cavern/temporal mastery all in one. any other spicy white cards you would recommend?
hehe just had a guy on affinity spill his guts over how terminus should be banned. in any case heres the list i was discussing - any brewing suggestions are welcome

3 [MM2:151] Noble Hierarch
1 [ONS:316] Flooded Strand
3 [ZEN:220] Misty Rainforest
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
2 [LEA:288] Savannah
4 [USG:96] Show and Tell
4 [FNMP:120] Cloudpost
1 [ZEN:246] Forest
1 [LEG:248] Karakas
2 [3ED:303] Tropical Island
1 [MM2:16] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 [TSP:281] Vesuva
2 [PLS:106] Eladamri's Call
2 [THS:180] Sylvan Caryatid
1 [ICE:331] Glacial Chasm
2 [ONS:328] Windswept Heath
1 [WWK:132] Bojuka Bog
1 [ROE:4] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [WWK:136] Eye of Ugin
4 [M12:188] Primeval Titan
2 [EMA:187] Sylvan Library
1 [OGW:4] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 [ZEN:234] Island
2 [MM3:26] Terminus
1 [BFZ:15] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [SOM:227] Glimmerpost
3 [DDR:7] Crop Rotation
2 [M10:68] Ponder
1 [LEB:285] Tundra
2 [POR:65] Personal Tutor

SB: 2 [MM2:99] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [ALA:10] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [ARB:75] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [RTR:35] Cyclonic Rift
SB: 1 [ARB:8] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LRW:248] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [RTR:18] Rest in Peace
SB: 1 [DKA:24] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 [TSP:202] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [M11:30] Silence

[Valleysdai]

I've been working on a spicy build that's UG, but I'm testing out some black cards in the board:

Creatures
3 primeval titan
1 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
1 emrakul the promised end
1 emrakul the aeons torn
1 kozilek the great distortion

Sorceries
3 show and tell
4 ponder

Instants
2 intuition
4 brainstorm
4 crop rotation

Enchantments
2 omniscience

Artefacts
2 pithing needle
2 amulet of vigor
1 candelabra

Lands
4 cloud post
4 glimmerpost
4 misty rainforest
4 tropical island
2 vesuva
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths
1 maze of ith
1 boseiju
1 cavern of souls
1 eye of ugin
1 glacial chasm
1 urborg tomb of yawgmoth
1 forest
1 island
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas
1 tabernacle

Sideboard
2 grafdiggers cage
2 noxious revival
1 flusterstorm
1 stifle
1 spellskite
1 cyclonic rift
1 mirage mirror
1 tragic lesson
1 beast within
2 krosan grip
1 notion thief
1 devastation tide

Omniscience has been amazing in the deck and enables the deck to leave the early game a lot sooner than usual, it also enables the infinite turns loop with emrakul the aeons torn.

My sideboard is in flux at the moment, I'm trying to find cards that are useful against the fast combo decks (like storm).

I find that the BR reanimator matchup is extremely favoured in my way as I haven't lost a game against it yet.

I am tempted to try a cpuple of root maze and maybe an arcane laboratory in the side to beat storm, etc.

EDIT: I may try a 1 of underground sea instead of the 4th tropical. I have a lot of cards I'm interested in trying in the sideboard (approx 20 cards). Has anyone tried epiphany at the drownyard or sudden reclamation?

[aedrew]

Mengucci plays UG Post (https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/blue-green-post-legacy-channel-mengucci/).

Nice to see some content for this deck.

[MechTactical]

Mengucci plays UG Post (https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/blue-green-post-legacy-channel-mengucci/).

Nice to see some content for this deck.

Funny, I was testing mikokoro in my bant list and then i see this thing. I guess post decks nowadays should be called [country] post pile...

[aedrew]

Funny, I was testing mikokoro in my bant list and then i see this thing. I guess post decks nowadays should be called [country] post pile...

How has Mikokoro worked for you? Do you see any application for it outside of semi-countering Infernal Tutor?

[prdgchild]

Played c/g post last night:


Turbo Depths: Win (2-0): Made a token both games and killed them with it. Kinda new Turbo Depth player and mirage mirror is so silly.

Lands: Win (2-1): Close games. Mirage Mirror cause so many strange interactions. Copied exploration a few turns to dump hand.

Lands: Loss (1-2): Drew the krosan grip for needle to double wasteland me. Felt bad.

U/B Sneak/Show: Win (2-1): Sideboard tech sandwurm converegence both games, lol. Lost 1st game, boarded it in, mulled for it and both games he went for it and I had the token generator and his deck wasnt playing any way to bounce it lol, foolish deck building on his part.

All star of the night, pithing needle. Run 3, want 4. Might go to 61 cards for it.

[MechTactical]

How has Mikokoro worked for you? Do you see any application for it outside of semi-countering Infernal Tutor?

Outside of triggering miracles on the opponents turn it was potentially useful when you are in top deck mode or digging for a threat. Enables crop to draw a card. Nothing too fancy though. I guess that we can afford giving our foe extra cards mid-late game most of the time. Honestly, I didn't think about infernal tutor interaction until seeing the video and haven’t drawn it in that situation. I’m guessing that croping for it in response to infernal makes it even better since the opponent certainly won’t except it, but that’s a t3 play which is kinda late for storm. Not sure if it’s worth running outside of bant though. If you’re looking for more land utility it’s worth testing i guess?

[aedrew]

Introduction
========
I'd like to share some deckbuilding ideas and a small tournament report. For a while now, I have played UG Post with counter magic in the sideboard for combo decks. I have never beat Storm with this configuration. Game 1, I accept that I will not win against a good hand, but I couldn't even take advantage if they stumble as the clock was just to slow and there was no disruption. Even post board, things were hard as they just wait for discard to make sure the coast is clear and sculpt a hand I can't beat. At the same time, I found Eldrazi Stompy hard to beat even though the match-up did not seem too bad on paper. Chalice on 1 and TKS made it hard to get something together even though my threats should just outclass them. Furthermore, in general the deck sometimes would just do nothing as I would get one half of the combo or cantrip into air or have the interaction not line up (e.g. bounce spell with no targets, Ugin versus Eldrazi or Ugin stranded with Show and Tell, Show and Tell plus an Eldrazi but they have Karakas, Candle without 2+ mana lands).

After Brainstorm and Map, I've primarily used Ponder and Sylvan Library to try for more consistency. Library was often disappointing. I'd either spend my turn casting it only to have it Abrupt Decayed before I got the first activation, face Leovold, or simply not have much life to spend on it or be stuck without a shuffle effect. Ponder has been good, but I think it is much less powerful in this deck than in others because it often takes your only colored source and thus often your whole turn is just pondering. Other decks that use Ponder have additional advantage as it works as a way to set up a Delver flip as well as a way to flip it or a way to set up Miracles. Furthermore, these decks can usually Ponder into a 1-mana card they can play that turn.

The concerns of having some game one chance versus combo, having more generally applicable interactions, and improving consistency by finding a use for dead cards leads me to want Force of Will in the main deck. This leads me to want to increase the blue count to at least 20. Four Brainstorm is easy. Four Show and Tell is reasonable. Some number of Perilous Voyage or your preferred bounce spell makes sense. I chose 3. Now, 4 Ponder also seems natural. I tried a build with 4 Ponder, 4 Force of Will, no Maps, and did okay but felt like I lost games against slower fair decks that I should be winning and though combo was improved, it was still easy to lose. However, getting to experience a game 1 win versus TES when the opponent went all in and I had Force plus blue card felt great and getting the game 1 gave me room to take the match 2-1. I think some number of Ponder may be good, but because of the above, I decided to try a different blue cantrip: Cloud of Faeries.

Cloud of Faeries provides instant-speed, basically uncounterable, card draw for colorless mana, which this deck often has excess of. It is a blue card that pitches to Force.
And, it is often as good as a Candelabra and rarely worse than one. Candle is an extremely powerful card, but is often a 1 mana do nothing without 2+ mana lands or other utility lands. It gets trapped behind Chalice and is vulnerable to Abrupt Decay and K Command. Cloud of Faeries provides the ramp of Candle with the needed blueness and is basically never dead. Least importantly, it is a creature, which can chump or beat down as needed and leaves behind Edict fodder when ramping into a real threat.

To make room for Force of Will and Cloud of Faeries, I ended up cutting an Ugin, old Kozilek, 2 Candles, maindeck EE, and the card selections slots I had given to some extra maps and Ponders. Cloud replaces Candle. EE and Ugin always felt more like sideboard cards. I found that I often have too many uncastable threats rather than too few. I also cut Glacial Chasm for a fifth blue fetch to support the increase in blue cards. Maybe I just am not skilled with Chasm, but it often felt like not enough to come back from behind and is real bad in the opening hand. This left me wanting one more blue card. I went with Clique because it is a hate bear that provides disruption plus clock versus combo, blue, can fix my hand, and fits the new Faerie theme.

Moving Force of Will to the main freed up a lot of sidebaord slots and let me add 2 Dismembers for Gurmag and Eldrazi, the EE from the maindeck, and some additional countermagic in Swan Song. I went with Swan Song instead of the fourth Flusterstorm partially to play around Cabal Therapy a bit and partly because of Animate Dead. I have been running two Revokers for a while and I think they are needed versus Storm (for LED or Petal plus beats) and have proven useful versus Sneak Attack. I had one slot left and used it for Void Winnower. This could really be anything, but the thought was I want to be able to up my threat count if needed. Winnower is an 11/9 that outclasses most creatures, comes out for one less than Ulamog, can't be chumped by tokens, can't be Karakased, and shuts off Life from the Loam and all the Storm win conditions. The problem with these types of cards is they often seem good, but really resolving any 8+ CMC spell should seem good when it happens. I think this could easily be Sandwurm Convergence,
new Emrakul, Kozilek, or some more cheap interaction.

I played something like this a little in online practice rooms and it felt good enough to keep testing. So I brought the following list to a small local weekly:

Faerie Post or 11-Post, 8-Cloud

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Show and Tell
4 Cloud of Faeries

4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
2 Expedition Map

4 Force of Will
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Perilous Voyage
3 Pithing Needle


Sideboard

1 Void Winnower
3 Flusterstorm
1 Swan Song
2 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale


Round 1 v. Grixis Delver
=======
Game 1
------
On the draw, we both keep 7. Deathrite and Insectile Abberation start eating at my life total. I get a Needle on DRS and Wasteland to slow down the assault. At 7 life, I get a Primeval Titan into play and crawl back with chained Glimmer Posts, begin careful to stay out of range of crackback plus bolt.

Game 2
------
I shave on Show and Tell, Force of Will, and Cloud of Faeries and bring in Tab, Explosives, Dismember, and Flusterstorm. In retrospect, I should have also cut some Crop Rotations as I never felt like I could safely cast them through counter magic. I mull to 5 due to either too many dead cards or no colored mana. Opponent plays a good tempo game and I am never able to get much going and die to Young Pyro and friends. I made one mistake about timing my Perilous Voyages. I first cast one on Pyro in my main while he was tapped out, which I think was correct but then I followed the same play pattern later and did it in my main while opponent had mana open. Opponent Brainstormed into Daze and fetch then untapped with full mana and a sculpted hand. This should have been done on upkeep and I might have come back, as I had EE to clean up the tokens.

Game 3
------
We both keep 7. Opponent plays draw go up to 3 mana and I do nothing after my turn one Map. I wait to fetch and crack because I saw Stifle last game. Finally, opponent taps out to cast True-Name Nemesis and I take my opportunity, fetching twice and cracking Map for Cavern. I untap, play Cavern choosing Giant and cast my first Titan. Opponent gets rid of it with an Edict, but I have a second in my hand. At some point, Titan attack trigger earns a Stifle, which I Flusterstorm. Opponent Forces with pitch the original spell and pays for a copy. Pretty nice exchange for a Titan trigger. I draw a third Titan as we enter turns and opponent offers the concession.

1-0

Round 2 v. Pox
=======
Game 1
------
On the draw, I go to 5 while opponent keeps 6. After getting Wastelanded once, I resolve Needle and catch myself about to name Wasteland and instead name Liliana of the Veil. This was crucial, as opponent played the Planeswalker out anyway the next turn. Rack is slowly killing me. I am pretty dead with low resources but have a Emrakul in hand, so hoping to top deck Show and Tell and get lucky. It doesn't happen.

Game 2
------
I shave Force of Will, Show and Tell, Cloud of Faeries. Cut Bog. Bring in Revokers, Void Winnower, Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Krosan Grip. I keep 7 while opponent mulls to 5. Opponent is stuck on one land for a long time and casts a few things off of Dark Rituals but I get Revoker on Liliana plus hard cast Ulamog, taking all his mana and clean up.

Game 3
------
I keep a soft 7 while opponent mulls to 6. I have turn 1 needle and a Show and Tell with nothing to show but opponent turn 1 Thoughtseizes and takes Needle. I get a bit lucky and draw fetches and basics to get up to 3 mana around Wasteland and manage to draw Void Winnower. Show and tell in Winnower to his Swamp and it does some work. Prevents his suspended Nihilith from being cast, traps Hymn in his hand, and protects itself from Small Pox. Not to mention a 2-turn clock. He doesn't draw Liliana or Innocent Blood and Winnower takes it.

2-0

Round 3 v. Reanimator Storm
=======
Game 1
------
I am on the play but mull to 5 while opponent keeps 7. My hand is 3 Show and Tell, Vesuva, and Misty. I scry Brainstorm to the top and Vesuva my Misty in order to Brainstorm and fetch to improve my hand. At some point opponent bins a Griselbrand and hardcasts a Magus of the Mind, but I don't see much of what opponent is on and I am not familiar with this deck. Soon, I end-of-turn Crop Rotation for third Cloudpost into Cloud of Faeries to make 15 mana to hard cast Emrakul (had exactly 15 even without the Faeries if I cracked a fetch but this way I have Edict fodder I guess plus mana to spare).

Game 2
------
I board in Surgicals, Revokers, Flusterstorms, Swan Song, Winnower. I Board out some Needles and Show and Tell and a few Titans. We both keep 7. I get a Needle on Griselbrand and then Clique opponent in his draw step. I see and take a Shallow Grave, but opponent had redundent reanimation spell to go off that turn with a Magus of the Mind for 7+1 free cards into a lethal Tendrils. I might have taken this game if I got Bog with my Map instead of Cloudpost when a Magus was in the yard, but I was banking on Clique to prevent him from going off for one turn.

Game 3
------
I realize this version of reanimator is softer to Needle and better against Perilous Voyage, so I board out Voyages and bring some needles back. I keep a good 7 with Clique and Revoker and opponent mulls to 6. This game I just have it all: Needle on Magus, Clique, Revoker on LED, Flusterstorm, Surgical, Crop Rotation for Bog. I prevent him from doing anything while Clique and Revoker beat down.

3-0 for first place


Closing Thoughts
================
Having Force of Will main came into play against Delver, where it it would have let me force a Show and Tell through game 1, though it didn't come to that. I was able to hardcast Force to stop a crazy Pox enchantment. It also let me hold up protection while deploying threats versus Reanimator. Cloud of Faeries felt good as a glue card for the deck. It never was key but also never seemed like a bad draw as I could pitch to Force or just cycle on 2 mana without fear of Daze. I also had a couple hands with Cloud of Faeries that let me blank Duress and Collective Brutality. Having only 6 Show and Tell targets in the main felt fine and I never found myself with dead Show and Tells or no threat for long. Needle was good in all matches, but three Needles felt fine.

[caw_86]

Possible new card
Stabilization Ball 2
Artifact
If a land would produce two or more mana, it produces nothing instead.
Spells cost {1} more to cast for each other spell cast that turn.

[Valleysdai]

Possible new card
Stabilization Ball 2
Artifact
If a land would produce two or more mana, it produces nothing instead.
Spells cost {1} more to cast for each other spell cast that turn.

The translation I saw had that those lands tap for colourless and the anti storm is based on that player's storm count.

[aedrew]

There's a 5-0 bant post list published (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-03-17). Congrats to Mikre.

[nimkee]

What are the 4 Trinisphere for? Storm? It never comes down before turn 2, it seems like it would be difficult to get into play. Are there any other matchups it comes in for?

I'm assuming Leylines come in against Depths and Storm. Anything else?


There's a 5-0 bant post list published (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-03-17). Congrats to Mikre.

[MechTactical]

What are the 4 Trinisphere for? Storm? It never comes down before turn 2, it seems like it would be difficult to get into play. Are there any other matchups it comes in for?

I'm assuming Leylines come in against Depths and Storm. Anything else?

i tested portend in my bant quest. Though at the end of the day i think I dislike the full set. Instead I ran at least a split with ponder. Ponder can draw you action while portend is only better for setting miracles on the next upkeep or cast portend on your opponent, which didn’t seem to be critical in most games. On the other hand you can top-lock the opponent in corner cases.

I took the mikre list out for a spin. the list feels well balanced. My bant lists were always "more white" orianted in terms of SB and MB card choices, which may not be the way to build bant. The artifact package adds the much needed consistency. While I would never consider the same SB choices a match against reanimator proved to me that the choices are legit. i won reanimator with needles, leyline and trini. felt weird being without surgical but i guess this setting can compensate for that.

[nimkee]

I've been tuning this list the last couple of weeks, and went 3-0 with it last night. I'll write a shortish tourney report, ask if you are curious on the sideboarding. I wasn't too ambitious with the write up.

My goals with the deck, aside from the typical 12 post infinite turns, is to have better all around matchups. Specifically, I want to improve combo, chalice, and blood moon matchups.

My ideal plan against combo is t1 therapy, into flash back and then a t3 tks, or crop rotate into bog. It worked pretty well last night. Chaining quick TKS's is also surprisingly effective.

Lands - 26
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Bojuka Bog

1 Wastes
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Llanowar Wastes - important for providing all 3 colors
1 Dryad Arbor - easily accessible Therapy fodder

Creatures - 15
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya - so so performer
4 ThoughtKnot Seer
3 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells - 20
2 Mox Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Expedition Map
2 Crop Rotation

3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Warping Wail
1 Mirage Mirror - so so performer
2 Sylvan Library
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle --> could be another spyglass
1 Sorcerer's Spyglass
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Toxic Deluge (didn't use tonight)
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (didn't use tonight)
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Warping Wail
1 Crop Rotation
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Choke
1 Maelstrom Pulse

-----

I went 3-0. 2-0 against rb reanimator, 2-0 against splinter twin stompy, and 2-1 against dark miracles.

I went on the play against reanimator and therapied away a reanimate. He stripped my titan, and then later exhumed a griselbrand to my titan. I fetched up Karakas, and a post. He managed to stick two Chancellors into play, putting him at 3 (animate dead plus reanimate). I bounced griselbrand, and attacked with the titan, fetching up a glimmer and cloudpost. He double blocks, we trade. I have enough to gsz for another titan into glimmer and eye, I’m at 22 and just win from there.

Game 2 I keep a 7 with therapy, warping wail, and surgical extraction. He leads into faithless, ditching an exhume and something else. I lead with diamond, therapy, and a glimmerpost. I strip his reanimate. He faithless’s into a griselbrand, which I just extract because I want to see what is in his hand. I untap and keep up warping wail mana while playing lands until he goes to reanimate something else. From there I play tracker into an explorer, flash back therapy, make clues and clean up.

Match 2 vs Splinter Twin stompy…I therapied him hitting force of will, decayed his bloodmoon, warping wailed his dude, then cleaned up with TKS. He played a t2 chalice but it didn't do anything. Game two was longer, but I had a variety of answers for his 3 blood moons, bridge, and chalice, along with warping wail for his dude again. Playing through chalice and blood moon wasn't a problem at all, which was one of the things I was aiming for with this deck.

Match 3 vs Dark miracles was longer and grindy. I won off a resolved sylvan game 1. Game 2 I got hammered with double fow into ashiok into mentor and then jace. It was ugly. The black splash was for ashiok and vindicate. He also sided in a rather cheeky noxious revival for his miracles.

Game 3 started off with double therapy off of a mox diamond. I took a force of will, and then a ponder in a one land hand keep with Jace, Entreat, Terminus, and snapcaster I think. It was a long game but I ended up pulling it out. WW countered a temporal mastery. He topdecked repeated force of wills, countering a titan, and then a GSZ for a titan. I slammed a titan the following turn. Good luck vs great luck.

He had to choose between vindicating an active titan or an eye. He chose the titan, and I won a few turns later.

[Leshrac82]

I've been tuning this list the last couple of weeks, and went 3-0 with it last night. I'll write a shortish tourney report, ask if you are curious on the sideboarding. I wasn't too ambitious with the write up.

My goals with the deck, aside from the typical 12 post infinite turns, is to have better all around matchups. Specifically, I want to improve combo, chalice, and blood moon matchups.

My ideal plan against combo is t1 therapy, into flash back and then a t3 tks, or crop rotate into bog. It worked pretty well last night. Chaining quick TKS's is also surprisingly effective.

Nice list, some similarities to my lists but still very different in other ways - you are still focussing mostly on the 12-post plan with 3 Primeval Titans, while i haven't played more than 1 in a while and i reduced the number of Posts to the bare minimum to have more colored mana and room for Dark Dephts. And you went Allin on the TKS plan, while i tested 1 or 2 in the early stages of the deck and eventually dropped it: From my experience, it's just too slow in our deck - it's very hard to play on t2, and on t3 it's often too late. Eldrazi Stompy decks can reliably cast it on t2 most of the time, that one turn matters a lot.

After i convinced myself to try my deck without Mox Diamonds (see my last Post in the NicFit thread) i just got reminded how important they ultimately are (my winrate dropped a lot without them and the deck felt really awkward sometimes with very slow starts, i brought them back and i'm happy again), and i definitely like them in your deck too.

I replaced my Oracle with a Courser a while ago, and never looked back: The lifegain can be very relevant and is much more important than the extra land, and Courser doesn't die to Bolt.

I see you are playing 2x Choke in the sideboard. I am thinking about that option, since i had more problems against Miracles than i like (just going by the numbers Miracles would be my worst matchup on Magic Online, which is kinda ridiculous) and this seems like a good sideboard card that has enough other applications.
Question: How good is Choke and in what matchups? I often see it in Maverick sideboards, but they have Wastelands, we don't. It's probably fine to bring in against Delver and every fair blue deck, but is it relevant enough against combo decks like Storm and SnT? And is it generally good enough, since most fair blue decks are playing Deathrite Shaman? A different idea would be Carpet of Flowers for the opposite effect.

[nimkee]

Nice list, some similarities to my lists but still very different in other ways - you are still focussing mostly on the 12-post plan with 3 Primeval Titans, while i haven't played more than 1 in a while and i reduced the number of Posts to the bare minimum to have more colored mana and room for Dark Dephts. And you went Allin on the TKS plan, while i tested 1 or 2 in the early stages of the deck and eventually dropped it: From my experience, it's just too slow in our deck - it's very hard to play on t2, and on t3 it's often too late. Eldrazi Stompy decks can reliably cast it on t2 most of the time, that one turn matters a lot.

After i convinced myself to try my deck without Mox Diamonds (see my last Post in the NicFit thread) i just got reminded how important they ultimately are (my winrate dropped a lot without them and the deck felt really awkward sometimes with very slow starts, i brought them back and i'm happy again), and i definitely like them in your deck too.

I replaced my Oracle with a Courser a while ago, and never looked back: The lifegain can be very relevant and is much more important than the extra land, and Courser doesn't die to Bolt.

I see you are playing 2x Choke in the sideboard. I am thinking about that option, since i had more problems against Miracles than i like (just going by the numbers Miracles would be my worst matchup on Magic Online, which is kinda ridiculous) and this seems like a good sideboard card that has enough other applications.
Question: How good is Choke and in what matchups? I often see it in Maverick sideboards, but they have Wastelands, we don't. It's probably fine to bring in against Delver and every fair blue deck, but is it relevant enough against combo decks like Storm and SnT? And is it generally good enough, since most fair blue decks are playing Deathrite Shaman? A different idea would be Carpet of Flowers for the opposite effect.

I had a lot of similar lines of thought. Instead of reducing the posts I took out the DD, and then added the Llanowar for a 3 in one mana fixer. T2 TKS doesn't happen very often, but a single therapy in T1 or 2 often isn't enough to wrap up combo matches. Some density of therapy, wail, tks, and crop rotation seems to do well. I occasionally can search up and cast TKS on a stalled board for immediate blocker / hand clear before going to something bigger. TKS has also been real useful for simply clearing out counter magic / removal / snapcasters / Jace, and following up with a therapy is usually game over. They were good against Miracles.

The mox diamonds are very important for consistency. I 100% snagged that from your list about 70 some pages back! I am iffy on the Oracle and had wondered about using Courser many times. I worry about the double green. That's the main thing, especially in the early turns. That life gain would have won me a couple of games in the past. Do you ever have problems casting him? Is your mana-base similar to mine?

Choke is good when it lands. I wouldn't side it in against SnT, and I am less sure against Storm. I think this version has better all around matchups than the other post lists I've played, but because of that Choke helps push it over the edge a bit with the blue decks. 4 therapy, 2 warping wail, 4 tks, chains, and 3 crop rotations for bog is already a fair bit of hate. Ratchet bomb might be worth it too I suppose for those zero drops, or to hold up for empty if nothing else. Storm needs repeated kicks once they are down. That deck can crawl back from some unlikely spots.

Multiple titans has been fairly important for me. Having at least 2 has won me several games. I was a bit torn on cavern but opted for zero to help out with consistency in my mana base.

What list are you working with now?

[Leshrac82]

I had a lot of similar lines of thought. Instead of reducing the posts I took out the DD, and then added the Llanowar for a 3 in one mana fixer. T2 TKS doesn't happen very often, but a single therapy in T1 or 2 often isn't enough to wrap up combo matches. Some density of therapy, wail, tks, and crop rotation seems to do well. I occasionally can search up and cast TKS on a stalled board for immediate blocker / hand clear before going to something bigger. TKS has also been real useful for simply clearing out counter magic / removal / snapcasters / Jace, and following up with a therapy is usually game over. They were good against Miracles.

The mox diamonds are very important for consistency. I 100% snagged that from your list about 70 some pages back! I am iffy on the Oracle and had wondered about using Courser many times. I worry about the double green. That's the main thing, especially in the early turns. That life gain would have won me a couple of games in the past. Do you ever have problems casting him? Is your mana-base similar to mine?

Choke is good when it lands. I wouldn't side it in against SnT, and I am less sure against Storm. I think this version has better all around matchups than the other post lists I've played, but because of that Choke helps push it over the edge a bit with the blue decks. 4 therapy, 2 warping wail, 4 tks, chains, and 3 crop rotations for bog is already a fair bit of hate. Ratchet bomb might be worth it too I suppose for those zero drops, or to hold up for empty if nothing else. Storm needs repeated kicks once they are down. That deck can crawl back from some unlikely spots.

Multiple titans has been fairly important for me. Having at least 2 has won me several games. I was a bit torn on cavern but opted for zero to help out with consistency in my mana base.

What list are you working with now?

Interesting - i win so many games with DD, i wouldn't ever cut it - but i just watched Ehhh stream my deck and he plays it differently and doesn't use DD that much, so i guess it's mostly about the playstyle. Instead of TKS i have the white splash for Teeg against combo, that just wins the game against Storm on the spot and is very useful against Elves too (and has some use against SnT).

My manabase is similar, you are on 13 green sources and i'm going back and forth between 13 and 14. I almost never have issues with double green for Courser.

I played 2 Titans for a while before the Top ban, because it was very relevant against Miracles, i think i cut the 2nd Titan directly after the ban. Maybe having a 2nd one would help with my Miracles problems, have to think about that a bit.

Maybe i'll just try Choke for a while and see how it feels. Maybe a 2nd Titan too - it's only really relevant against Miracles.

The last successful list i 5-0ed with is this one: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/982314

Current spots in discussion for me:
The Titania is currently just another Fetchland. Could also go down on mana sources again and maybe turn that into a 2nd Titan. Or go back to Titania.
The Abrupt Decays in the maindeck are kinda flexspots. It's either the most relevant removal spell (Abrupt Decay, Collective Brutality or Swords to Plowshares) or currently just Lingering Souls (that card has overperformed so much for me).
The board is constantly changing a little bit.

[nimkee]

Interesting - i win so many games with DD, i wouldn't ever cut it - but i just watched Ehhh stream my deck and he plays it differently and doesn't use DD that much, so i guess it's mostly about the playstyle. Instead of TKS i have the white splash for Teeg against combo, that just wins the game against Storm on the spot and is very useful against Elves too (and has some use against SnT).

My manabase is similar, you are on 13 green sources and i'm going back and forth between 13 and 14. I almost never have issues with double green for Courser.

I played 2 Titans for a while before the Top ban, because it was very relevant against Miracles, i think i cut the 2nd Titan directly after the ban. Maybe having a 2nd one would help with my Miracles problems, have to think about that a bit.

Maybe i'll just try Choke for a while and see how it feels. Maybe a 2nd Titan too - it's only really relevant against Miracles.

The last successful list i 5-0ed with is this one: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/982314

Current spots in discussion for me:
The Titania is currently just another Fetchland. Could also go down on mana sources again and maybe turn that into a 2nd Titan. Or go back to Titania.
The Abrupt Decays in the maindeck are kinda flexspots. It's either the most relevant removal spell (Abrupt Decay, Collective Brutality or Swords to Plowshares) or currently just Lingering Souls (that card has overperformed so much for me).
The board is constantly changing a little bit.

This is awesome!! Have you been posting this in the Nic Fit thread? My take on the deck is a tad more in the post direction, yours in Nic Fit, so I can see why people might not take to it as a post deck. Nic Fit was my first legacy deck. I love your GSZ toolkit. Titania is one of my favs.

Tracker has been amazing for me, he would be the first card I double up on. Crop rotation is an odd card for me - I often side it out completely against counter magic decks because I end up getting 2 for 1'd. I was testing with a friend and he pointed out that DD seemed like more of a win-more card for me, that it rarely won me matches I wasn't already winning. That's what made me decide to move some pieces around.

Gaddock is great game 1. I tend to have less luck with him post board. TKS gives me better all around game, though definitely not the raw stopping power. When I played scooze I had some issue coming up with green to make him relevant against control (he usually ate removal quite quickly). What do you most often use him for?

What sort of a role has Ballista played for you? Do you often search it up with eye, a jace killer, or just to ping various dudes? I would like it as a one of in my main, at least.

What are the Swords and Lingering for out of the board?

When I first tried a list more similar to this it was without the diamonds and I had mana issues. I never tested it with the diamonds - results speak for themselves though! I think I just barraged you with about every question I could think of. Sorry about that! Thanks for sharing^^

Edit: found your post on the Nic Fit thread, am reading through some of it now.

[Leshrac82]

This is awesome!! Have you been posting this in the Nic Fit thread? My take on the deck is a tad more in the post direction, yours in Nic Fit, so I can see why people might not take to it as a post deck. Nic Fit was my first legacy deck. I love your GSZ toolkit. Titania is one of my favs.

Tracker has been amazing for me, he would be the first card I double up on. Crop rotation is an odd card for me - I often side it out completely against counter magic decks because I end up getting 2 for 1'd. I was testing with a friend and he pointed out that DD seemed like more of a win-more card for me, that it rarely won me matches I wasn't already winning. That's what made me decide to move some pieces around.

Gaddock is great game 1. I tend to have less luck with him post board. TKS gives me better all around game, though definitely not the raw stopping power. When I played scooze I had some issue coming up with green to make him relevant against control (he usually ate removal quite quickly). What do you most often use him for?

What sort of a role has Ballista played for you? Do you often search it up with eye, a jace killer, or just to ping various dudes? I would like it as a one of in my main, at least.

What are the Swords and Lingering for out of the board?

When I first tried a list more similar to this it was without the diamonds and I had mana issues. I never tested it with the diamonds - results speak for themselves though! I think I just barraged you with about every question I could think of. Sorry about that! Thanks for sharing^^

Edit: found your post on the Nic Fit thread, am reading through some of it now.

I started posting only in the Nic Fit thread when i got a lot of responses there and no responses here, i just figured Nic Fit players were more interested in the deck. :wink:

Crop Rotation is great against many combo decks (usually to get Bojuka Bog, but i like the option to go for a fast DD kill too) and also good against non-blue decks. It's a little awkward against blue decks sometimes - i personally think it's ok against Delver in response to Wasteland, but i usually side it out against blue decks without Wastelands. Overall that's the reason for the 2/2 split, it's not that great against some of the most played decks in the format but great against everything else.
About DD, when another 12-post player was watching my games on xmage he pointed out how often i used it compared to him, and that made me play the 2nd Stage for the 4th Glimmerpost at the time (the 4th Cloudpost went away later), and at least for my playstyle it was a very good and very relevant change.

Tracker is the engine that keeps the deck running - imo you need some kind of card advantage tool to outgrind the fair decks. Or you need to focus much more on the combo aspects of the deck and make an early Eldrazi more likely, but i prefer grinding, the other direction is what most other 12-post decks have tried for years.

Scooze has many uses. It can shut the door on some combo decks: It's usually not good enough to beat Reanimator alone, but after you dealt with their first combo attempt it's the best way to shut down their combo forever. Similar but even better against Dredge. Also very relevant against Lands. And against other fair decks, when it comes down later in the game i usually have the mana to make it a game ending threat, ideally it comes down right after a boardwipe. Earlier in the game it depends, but most of the time green mana isn't a big issue. And if it lives, it can shut down Deathrite and Snapcaster.

Ballista is a manasink without costing much mana. It can come down early for 2 mana and just trade with a creature if you need to. Or come down for 4 mana, kill a creature and still remain in play turning it into a 2-for-1 already. Or come down later and just wipe the board against some decks, often still staying in play. It can kill planeswalkers like Jace sometimes. Also more relevant than you would think: It can kill your own Explorer when you don't have a sacrifice outlet. Later in the game if i have the mana i usually search Eldrazi with Eye, but in some situations you might prefer a Ballista, sometimes just to directly kill the opponent.

Swords are just another removal spell, at the time i wanted something relevant against Delver that has also some use against certain combo decks (Reanimator, Turbo Depths). At the moment i have cut the Swords again, but they are always an option.

Lingering Souls are many things, i board them in against pretty much every fair deck. The many different uses:
1. It's often something between 1 and 4 fogs by blocking their biggest threat, buying me time to develop the board - similar to something like Moment's Peace, with different upsides and downsides. It helps that they fly, you can block Delver, Flickerwisp and even Marit Lage. Only againt TNN and threats with Trample (mostly Elves) it's really worse than a fog.
2. It presents an unexpected angle of attack: They prepare for one big threat out of this deck, if you go wide you can catch some fair decks by surprise. Diabolic Edict doesn't look that good any more against 4 Spirit Tokens.
3. Their evasion turns them into a good Jace killer. Planeswalkers and Jace in particular can be a problem, this helps a lot.

[Valleysdai]

I am intrigued by the white you both run, did you try other colours before choosing white?

I'm on the UG plan with some spice (omniscience, intuition, amulet of vigor, urborg and notion thief in the side).

I do get hampered by chalice and few recurring draw engines. Combo decks are an instant lose too. How do your decks fair with those issues?

[Leshrac82]

I am intrigued by the white you both run, did you try other colours before choosing white?

I'm on the UG plan with some spice (omniscience, intuition, amulet of vigor, urborg and notion thief in the side).

I do get hampered by chalice and few recurring draw engines. Combo decks are an instant lose too. How do your decks fair with those issues?

I tried a red splash very early on and it was bad, i tried splashing blue for Leovold for a while, but isn't worth it and having a bigger splash for Brainstorm takes too many slots and doesn't fit into this style of deck. If you are running GSZ, especially on Magic Online where Storm is still probably the 2nd most played deck even though it's bad in the current metagame, you really want to have Gaddock Teeg to have a shot to win game 1, and postboard white also provides better hate than other colors. Also, Knight of the Reliquary is really strong if you untap with it. I experimented a little bit without the white splash, but couldn't make it work against combo without the white hate cards - just discard isn't good enough.

Chalice isn't very good against me. It hits a few cards and that can occasionally be relevant, but if i would play a Chalice deck against my deck, i would board it out. (It hits Crop Rotation. It kinda hits Cabal Therapy, but i board that out very often, and even in game 1 the most important thing with Therapy against those decks is to have it as a sacrifice outlet for Veteran Explorer. It hits Veteran Explorer too, but in only play 2 and it's far more likely i search for it with GSZ.) This deck is probably favored against most Chalice decks (my winrate against Eldrazi is positive and my winrate against Mono-Red Prison is even better).

Overall the deck beats pretty much every fair deck - i really need a bigger sample size to say that with confidence about all the different decks, and many matchups are pretty close, but there isn't a single fair deck i'm really worried about (apart from my bad run against Miracles, but that has to be mostly variance). Tracker is very good as a draw engine.
About combo decks, it depends:
Storm is unfavorable, but close - almost certainly over 40% (my winrate on Magic Online is around 45% against Storm, and i lost many games to my own mistakes because for that matchup all my testing on xmage was worthless).
Turbo Depths is favorable, my guess is at least around 60%.
Dredge is very favorable, my guess is over 70%.
Elves is close, can't say either way but definitely between 40 and 60%. All the boardwipes help a lot, and Elves is slow enough for my own DD combo to be very relevant and occasionally fast enough even without any hate.
BR-Reanimator is close, i think slightly under 50%.
SnT is really bad. I think it's winnable (30-40% maybe) if they don't play Omni, but if they do it's probably under 20%. Nothing to do about that, i tried for a while, but playing sideboard cards specifically for that matchup hurts too many other matchups, and SnT isn't a large part of the metagame right now.
Can't really say anything about other combo decks, all the glass cannon decks that go for T1 kills are probably pretty bad, but they aren't really a big part of the metagame. Midrange combo decks like Aluren or Food Chain should be fine.

[Leshrac82]

Just got another 5-0 today (and a 4-1 in the League before that).

Maindeck is mostly the same as the last 5-0 (ignoring all the changes i made between these Leagues, because most of them were probably not good), i just removed the Titania and moved the 2nd Pernicious Deed into the maindeck.
Sideboard had some changes:

2x Thoughtseize
2x Surgical
2x Lingering Souls
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Crop Rotation
2x Choke
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben


There was some luck and non-games involved, but anyway, here are the matches:
Storm (ANT):
Game 1: I know what he's playing (because i just played him in my last match in the league before that). Start with T1 Therapy (i think blind hitting Infernal Tutor), Exlorer, T2 GSZ->Teeg.
Game 2: He keeps 7, i mulligan to 4. And i still almost get there because he kept a very reactive hand, unfortunately for me he draws his 4th removal spell to kill my Teeg and finally go off before i can find anything else, on Turn 7 or so.
Game 3: My sideboard change for today pays off with T2 Thalia (after i just kept up Crop Rotation T1). He is stuck on 1 Land and eventually concedes.
Lands:
Game 1: He has Exploration and eventually Loam going, but i know his hand, i have Knight and Ballista, since he isn't threatening the combo i can attack with the Knight and kill him before he dredges into anything dangerous. He concedes the match. (Probably a good idea, i have lost to Lands before, but i haven't lost 2 sideboard games in the same match against Lands yet with this.)
UB-Painter (or something like that, maybe even Grixis but i didn't see any red cards):
Game 1: He is stuck on 1 land and it's not really a game.
Game 2: He gets his combo into play, activates it, sees Emrakul and concedes. If he didn't board in any answer probably a good idea, he wasn't beating my board (i thin i had Knight and Tracker going).
Depths:
Game 1: I have to Crop Rotate into Karakas on T1 against his discard. He has Needle for that and Ghost Quarter for my Stage, but i'm attacking him down with an otherwise pretty useless Knight. He eventually gets Marit Lage into play, i force his GQ to kill my Stage, i have Library in play and tons of outs at this point: Abrupt Decay or Deed kill his Needle and makes Karakas active, Crop Rotation with the Knight in play would get my own Marit Lage, and finally what i draw is a Tracker which puts him dead on board when he attacks, while i'm at 21 life after fetching a Glimmerpost with Knight. Next turn i find Deed and that's it.
Game 2: He mulligans to 4 while i keep a sketchy 7 that doesn't have any hate cards. I probably should have mulliganed that. He hits some perfect topdecks and goes for it and my Knight would be one turn too slow.
Game 3: I discard his Spirit Guide T1, he has Stage and Depths but no other mana. Eventually i go for it with Crop->Stage to steal his Marit Lage - wouldn't win against another Spirit Guide because he could Crop for Karakas, but he doesn't have it.
Aggro-Loam:
Game 1: I have Therapy and Explorer, take his Knight and leave him with Dark Confidant and Library. But since he doesn't have any removal i can GSZ->Tracker, he doesn't find any removal either and that completely takes over the game.
Game 2: My T2 Ballista keeps his Liliana in check for one turn and my RecSage destroys his Sylvan Library, but he has Toxic Deluge and then Ajani - no way i'm winning from there against those 2 planeswalkers, i try but it's hopeless.
Game 3: He has lots of answers, especially his PFire keeps killing all my threats because he is kinda flooded and has enough mana for that. Funny thing: With Courser in play it's a bad idea to Crop Rotate for Bojuka Bog to get rid of PFire - we both realized that at the same time (or rather you should pay attention how you stack the triggers, i certainly didn't). I got rid of his Dark Confidant with Toxic Deluge early and he doesn't find any threats, while i have Library going. After i resolved Primeval Titan he has StP for that and GQ for my Eye of Ugin, but eventually i find Emrakul to end the game.

Didn't get to test the Chokes in this League or the one before that (i boarded them in against Storm, but they were completely useless in those games, also boarded them in against that Painter deck but didn't see them).
Thalia was really good on the other hand - another hatebear against Storm is probably a good idea, and in the League before that i played against Infect twice and Thalia won me a game there too. I wanted to try some tax effect as hate alongside Choke. I was thinking about Trinisphere before that as a different option, but i think Thalia is better because she definitely comes down before turn 3, and from my experience hatecards on turn 3 and later just don't matter against Storm.

[TLK]

Congrats! Awesome results. What’s the Bog/Courser/P Fire interaction?

[Leshrac82]

Congrats! Awesome results. What’s the Bog/Courser/P Fire interaction?

If you stack it wrong (like i did obviously :rolleyes: ), you gain the life from the land coming into play before Bog clears their graveyard. And so they get the PFire back.

[nimkee]

If you stack it wrong (like i did obviously :rolleyes: ), you gain the life from the land coming into play before Bog clears their graveyard. And so they get the PFire back.

Nice write up! White really does have some of the best sideboard cards. I'm going to stick with the TKS for a bit longer - I wish I had the deck on mtgo. I'm torn on buying cards I already in paper though :/

I'm really not sure on sideboarding choke against storm either - there are plenty of other things I would rather have, though unfortunately I don't have a lot of solid permanent based hate in my current configuration.

Ballista for your explorers is aaaaawesome. It hadn't even crossed my mind. I like the idea of lingering souls. Jace IS a problem when he resolves. Him bouncing TKS is especially annoying.

[Valleysdai]

@leshrac82 have you thought of testing enlightened tutor? It seems like it hits quite a bit of your answers

[Leshrac82]

@leshrac82 have you thought of testing enlightened tutor? It seems like it hits quite a bit of your answers

I did that a while ago, the deck looked very different then. It worked for some matchups, but overall the deck got a lot worse, no matter how i build the tutor package.

And with the current deck, i don't see any reason to do this: I have Deed, Library, Courser, Ballista, Choke and Ethersworn as possible targets. Only Ethersworn is good against combo decks, everything else is against fair decks, and Enlightened Tutor is card disadvantage and therefore not good against fair decks (that was the main result of my testing, there is no card so impactful against fair decks that it's worth the card disadvantage).

[Leshrac82]

Last night i played a match that was streamed by jarvisyu from the other side: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/243240739 (match starts around 2:49).

I watched the video (and not the stream like at least some of his viewers were suggesting), here is what was happening from my side:
Game 1:
I paused against the DRS turn 1: I was expecting him to play Lands because he is known for that, i kept a hand that could play a T3 5/5 Knight out of just basics and that's usually good enough against Lands. Also i was planning to play Cabal Therapy on turn 1, and that plan wasn't really working any more now.
On turn 3, i wanted to play therapy and flash it back to clear out the way for my Knight next turn. I played Teeg first to be able to flash it back in any case. After that resolved, and the Therapy resolved too, Lightning Bolt was the most logical choice to name: He would have used Daze if he had it (and i can play the Knight around 1 Daze). If he has FoW, he can't play it with Teeg in play, and without Bolt he can't get Teeg of the battlefield. Also, a Bolt could very likely kill the Knight with DRS on the table. Then i made a mistake: I abandoned my plan to flash back the Therapy since his FoW was shut of by Teeg anyway, but since he had Wasteland in hand, my Knight wasn't able to bring the fast Marit Lage kill i was planning (by fetching just basics i didn't even give him the chance to use it), so i probably needed more action after the Knight - i should have flashbacked Therapy here mostly to get rid of the Teeg and turn on my GSZs again.
I get punished for that mistake immediately by drawing 2x GSZ in a row.
Now i needed to get his Wasteland of the table to stick a Marit Lage, the best way to do that was to fetch Cloudposts and threaten Eldrazi. When i fetched the Glimmerpost and copied Cloudpost with Stage, this was my thought process: I needed to get life not to die next turn. If he didn't waste here, i was probably screwed (or at least i had fewer outs), but since nobody plays a second Stage like me, this play was most likely inducing him to waste the Stage. If he does that, i still need to draw something, but i had some outs that would at least beat him if he doesn't draw anything (i'm counting: 2x Toxic Deluge, 2x Pernicious Deed, 2x Crop Rotation, 1x Stage, 1x Depths, 1x Ballista, 1x Primeval Titan, 1x Ulamog, 2x Glimmerpost, 1x Eye of Ugin, 2x Lingering Souls would ge me more time and even if i don't draw anything i can fetch another Glimmerpost for a redraw with probably fewer outs). If he wastes the copied Cloudpost instead, i could just get Marit Lage.
Since i draw my second Stage for the turn, going for Marit Lage was clearly the best play - he needed to draw 2 Bolts (or Bolt + TNN) to win against that.
Game 2:
To keep that hand was a gamble, but i think it was correct: I had enough land, i had a Toxic Deluge and i had a black source to go with it. I really only needed to find a green source in my first 4 drawsteps, including Mox Diamond. And a white source would make Lingering Souls possible, that would probably buy me some time too.
My draws this game were pretty good and from there the hand played itself. If he didn't Bolt me and instead held it for my Tracker, he would have lost that to the Cabal Therapy - i was blind naming Bolt again, since that was again the most dangerous card (and i was kinda expecting there to be another Bolt too because he knew about the Tracker).
(Note: The GSZ would have just gotten another Tracker in this spot most likely - i was thinking about Courser as the only other option, after drawing the Therapy it would have been Tracker for sure. Didn't have enough fodder for Knight for that to be good enough, didn't have enough green mana for Scooze to be good enough, and didn't want to wait for enough mana for Primeval Titan.)



About possible changes to the deck: I'm currently playing the Lingering Souls main again over Abrupt Decay (it just keeps overperforming, while all the spot removal spells underperformed - i really don't like spot removal that much in this deck, i'm playing so many lands, my spells need to be better than just 1-for-1s that are dead cards some of the time), i got rid of the Chokes in the sideboard (useless against Storm, and probably not what i want against Delver either - Delver usually beats me with very aggressive starts, i almost always win the long game, and Choke doesn't help against that. that just leaves me with other fair blue decks, i didn't get to test it against those, but i don't think it's worth it for just those matchups), i'm trying out Sorcerous Spyglass in the board (with mixed results so far - it won me a few games on the spot and it was pretty useless some other times).
And i'm also playing a Vesuva again and removed the 3rd Glimmerpost for that, mostly to have access to a 2nd Bojuka Bog when i need it (already won me some games).

[Valleysdai]

Last night i played a match that was streamed by jarvisyu from the other side: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/243240739 (match starts around 2:49).

I watched the video (and not the stream like at least some of his viewers were suggesting), here is what was happening from my side...

Nice write up, I am interested in how the deck does, it is an interesting way of taking it.

What are your thoughts of it on paper? I know that the meta game is a lot different online to most paper meta games, so I'm interested in any changes you would make as well.

[Leshrac82]

Nice write up, I am interested in how the deck does, it is an interesting way of taking it.

What are your thoughts of it on paper? I know that the meta game is a lot different online to most paper meta games, so I'm interested in any changes you would make as well.

At some point i want to go over the different matchups and write up how i'm doing and maybe more - but i really need to have a bigger samplesize for that, it just doesn't make any sense to predict winrates from 10 matches or something like that. The only matchups where i have even close to a relevant samplesize are Grixis Delver and Storm - Grixis Delver is 60-65% and Storm is 45-50% so far.
Anyway, on Magic Online the deck is good enough to keep up - the overall winrate is somewhere around 55-65% for me, and everything from 51% up is good enough to go infinite on Magic Online. Obviously not a Tier 1 deck, but neither NicFit or 12-Post have been even remotely close to that for a while. I'm still hoping the winrate will settle on the higher end of this once i figure out an optimal build.

The deck in general can work in paper just fine, but some changes might be necessary. Storm is still the most played deck online (ANT and TES combined i faced more than even Grixis Delver, and that is far above any other deck), and at the moment probably not very relevant in paper. So the Thalias i added to the board could go for sure, don't know about other stuff - but if Storm isn't a relevant deck, the maindeck Teeg becomes questionable and some more sideboard slots could change.
Overall most matchups are very winnable, i'm confident my winrate in almost every matchup is at least 40% and i think even the glass cannon combo decks like Belcher are probably not much worse if at all. The only exception is Show&Tell with Omniscience, that matchup is just unwinnable - if that deck is a big part of your metagame i probably wouldn't play this deck.

[nimkee]

I'm getting similar numbers to Leshrac percentage wise - except replace grixis delver with czech pile. I've only played to Grixis Delver once and lost 1-2 (in a previous report on this thread.

Also, from Monday:

I did a 3 rounder last night with my BG list. I replaced oracle with courser, and mirror with Ballista.

I went 2-0 against miracles, twice. Both game 1s were very long, grindy affairs. I started off game 1 with a t1 therapy, naming fow, and hit. I dropped a veteran explorer and flashed it back, and he brainstormed away the cards I saw (including a jace), and I dropped a sylvan library with those two lands. It took another 15 turns to clean it up as I just drew nothing. Game 3 he dropped a quick mentor and I dropped a choke in response and won.

2nd Miracles matchup was similar except for game 1 I had titan countered by a counterbalance twice. He actually cast all of his termini that game. I had exiled Entreat with tks earlier in the match and he hadn't realized it. He almost decked himself. I eventually emmied him out.

I lost a round to dragon stompy. I knew what he was playing, so I mulled to 6 because of no way to get basics. My 6 would have been okay for anothing but a turn 1 bloodmoon, which he had. Then he followed it up with a chalice on one and I just happened to have all my 1 drops. Game 2 was long, and went similar. I basically lost to a t1 chandra, then blood moon t2, and overall it was close. the turn before I could stablize he got me - I deeded away his bridges and moons with a titan on board but he had the one of Chaos Warp he sided in for my titan.

[caw_86]

Its that time of the year again, getting ready for seattle
i hadnt picked up the deck since it lost top, so figuring out list has been fun and tough.

this is the list ive played 5 leagues with, 3-2, 5-0, 3-2, 2-3, and 0-5

4 primeval titan
1 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
1 emrakul the aeons torn
1 trinket mage
1 worldbreaker

4 show and tell
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
1 divert
4 force of will
2 repeal
1 candelabra of tawnos
2 expedition map
1 pithing needle
3 crop rotation
1 moments peace

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
2 vesuva
4 misty rainforest
4 tropical island
1 cavern of sould
1 karakas
1 eye of ugin
1 bojuka bog
1 nephalia academy
1 glacial chasm
1 island
1 forest

sb
4 blue elemental blast
2 thragtusk
1 divert
1 surgical extraction
1 reclamation sage
1 relic of progenitus
2 dismember
1 cavern of souls
1 engineered explosives
1 flusterstorm

most of what i have been facing on mtgo has been 4 color leovold, storm, grixis delver, mono red prisn, UW. and BR reanimator
i have been struggling with the delver matchs and i can really seem to figure it out, it seems like all my opponents just had it all.

mono red i prison has been descent, 3-1 in matches
reanimator and storm are sub par as expected but game ones are winnable.
force of will in the main i feel has improved all of these matchups, i mainly added them to the main to force through a show and tell against delver.

i tried out library as a top substitute, but it feels to slow, maybe could find a home in the board
i opted to go with 3 ponders and a divert in the top slots

my board is a mess as usual it seems
i think overall im happy with what i have in it, the only new thing i added was a cavern to to board to help find it in matches were i want 2.
after all the reanimator and storm games i feel like i want more surgicals/flusterstorms maybe.
the nephalia acadamey has proven useful, and is in the khalni garden spot. there just isnt enough LoTV floating around to need this land imo.


the last league i played in was the 5-0, which made me feel a lot better about playing this deck, but i did not face any delvers, 2 leovold decks, lands, burn, and BR reanimator. i

[Leshrac82]

most of what i have been facing on mtgo has been 4 color leovold, storm, grixis delver, mono red prisn, UW. and BR reanimator
i have been struggling with the delver matchs and i can really seem to figure it out, it seems like all my opponents just had it all.


Nice to see another 12-post deck go 5-0!

My deck is probably the strongest version against Delver, but it has some other drawbacks - mostly i'm not as strong against the other fair blue decks (after losing a bunch of matches in a row my winrate against Czech Pile is below 50%, and my winrate against Miracles is even worse). I'm trying to fix that, just have to figure out how (currently i'm trying Expedition Map and a 2nd Primeval Titan to see if that helps, going back a little bit to the traditional builds that have better matchups there - didn't help yesterday, but the cards felt good to have).

I'm losing to Delver if they have it all. The most important cards to beat them are my boardwipes, if i resolve at least 1 Toxic Deluge or Pernicious Deed i like my chances. Also important is the Dark Depths plan - either i win that way or i can force them to keep at least 1 Wasteland open all the time and win on the back of a Tracker or two. The Eldrazi game plan just doesn't work against Delver, i always board out my Eldrazi and Eye of Ugin against them - too slow and too clunky. That only works in my version with all those other threats, you probably can't do that in UG. That boardplan makes a huge difference - Game 1 against Delver i'm the underdog, i probably win just 40% of my preboard games against Delver, but postboard without those clunky cards things change a lot.


About the MTGO Metagame, i don't want to go over my winrates yet, but this is the metagame i have been facing, all the decks with at least 5 matches:

Delver (Grixis) 47
Storm (ANT) 33
Death&Taxes 28
Czech Pile 24
Lands 19
Mono-Red Prison 17
Miracles 16
Turbo-Depths 15
Elves 14
Storm (TES) 14
BR-Reanimator 14
Grixis Control 13
Delver (BUG) 13
Maverick 12
Delver (UR) 12
Eldrazi 10
Dredge 10
Aluren 9
Omnisneak 9
Burn 7
Sneak&Show 6
Infect 5
Delver (RUG) 5
BUG-DeathsShadow 5

[nimkee]

That's an impressive amount of data collection!

Grixis Delver: I think damn near everything loses when they have it all - it plays out like unbeatable combo. I too, often feel like Grixis Delver has it all when I play them - t1 drs into daze, wasteland follow-up OR a pyromancer git probe CT then waste me. It's ugly either way. The last game I played they had 3 FoWs to defend 2 delvers and rode those to victory. Its a tough deck regardless. I had the best luck against it with C/g post but meh, what can you do?

I like my BG build against miracles - Therapy + TKS to clear their counters, and then warping wail for their miracles have won me multiple games against them. I keep a single explorer in but try to rely on my dryad arbor plus excavator to get value out of them. Sylvan Library has also been key. Emmy plus infinite turns has been my win con each time. I find myself searching up bojuka bog more and more often against that deck to keep snapcasters from being useful, and to turn azcanta off. My last 3 matches against miracles have been 2-0 (x2) and 2-1, albeit there were some close games.

What about Czech pile gives you the most trouble? I find that matchup to be decent, except when I get hymn t2, then snap hymned t3. That's more of a BUG delver thing tho. TKS does great work against them, as does warping wail. Leovold on my Sylvan library is one of the more frustrating things in the matchup.


Nice to see another 12-post deck go 5-0!

My deck is probably the strongest version against Delver, but it has some other drawbacks - mostly i'm not as strong against the other fair blue decks (after losing a bunch of matches in a row my winrate against Czech Pile is below 50%, and my winrate against Miracles is even worse). I'm trying to fix that, just have to figure out how (currently i'm trying Expedition Map and a 2nd Primeval Titan to see if that helps, going back a little bit to the traditional builds that have better matchups there - didn't help yesterday, but the cards felt good to have).

I'm losing to Delver if they have it all. The most important cards to beat them are my boardwipes, if i resolve at least 1 Toxic Deluge or Pernicious Deed i like my chances. Also important is the Dark Depths plan - either i win that way or i can force them to keep at least 1 Wasteland open all the time and win on the back of a Tracker or two. The Eldrazi game plan just doesn't work against Delver, i always board out my Eldrazi and Eye of Ugin against them - too slow and too clunky. That only works in my version with all those other threats, you probably can't do that in UG. That boardplan makes a huge difference - Game 1 against Delver i'm the underdog, i probably win just 40% of my preboard games against Delver, but postboard without those clunky cards things change a lot.


About the MTGO Metagame, i don't want to go over my winrates yet, but this is the metagame i have been facing, all the decks with at least 5 matches:

Delver (Grixis) 47
Storm (ANT) 33
Death&Taxes 28
Czech Pile 24
Lands 19
Mono-Red Prison 17
Miracles 16
Turbo-Depths 15
Elves 14
Storm (TES) 14
BR-Reanimator 14
Grixis Control 13
Delver (BUG) 13
Maverick 12
Delver (UR) 12
Eldrazi 10
Dredge 10
Aluren 9
Omnisneak 9
Burn 7
Sneak&Show 6
Infect 5
Delver (RUG) 5
BUG-DeathsShadow 5

[Leshrac82]

What about Czech pile gives you the most trouble? I find that matchup to be decent, except when I get hymn t2, then snap hymned t3. That's more of a BUG delver thing tho. TKS does great work against them, as does warping wail. Leovold on my Sylvan library is one of the more frustrating things in the matchup.

Exactly that is giving me the most trouble, i get hymned on t2 way too often, especially in postboard games, and most of the time they have another Hymn or a snapcaster as a follow up. With no cards in hand from turn 3 on this deck is hard to beat, whatever i topdeck is either useless or they can deal with it. And they keep discarding my stuff, later in the game with K-Command chained with Snapcasters so i don't even really get a drawstep.
The matchup isn't unwinnable, but overall that happens often enough to turn it into a bad matchup.

Against Miracles, they just keep countering all my stuff, usually have Jace on turn 4, postboard often have Back to Basics (that alone is beatable, but not combined with Jace), sometimes have an early Mentor (which is still more beatable than Jace and B2B). I lost 2 games in a row against Miracles after casting Emrakul, didn't have Eye or Karakas and they had a Terminus set up on top with Brainstorm in hand. Also got my Eye of Ugin milled with Predict after they used Portent on me multiple times. Azcanta is definitely a problem too, if they don't have B2B they use that for too much cardadvantage - between that and Jace they often draw 3 cards a turn, enough to find answers for everything.
There was definitely some bad luck involved in my losses against Miracles, more than half the time i was either manascrewed or flooded, but even adjusting for that i have my doubts this matchup is as good as it is supposed to be.

I was playing Warping Wail last year and in the beginning of this year, but i found it underwhelming especially in these matchups. I rarely have mana up to counter a Hymn that early in the game (i played with Wail for a long time and i don't think i ever countered a Hymn with it), countering a Miracle doesn't work that often either. And overall it kinda requires a 4th color, i don't always have colorless mana in the early game. It's still a card on my radar, but the last time i tried it, it didn't really work out.


I 5-0ed a League again yesterday, with a 2nd Primeval Titan in the maindeck (but no Expedition Maps, tried them and wasn't convinced) and a lot of discard in the board (4x Thoughtseize, 2x Collective Brutality). Played Death&Taxes (2-0), Aggro-Loam (2-1), Czech Pile (2-0), BR-Reanimator (2-1), Sneak&Show (2-0).
Other cards i tried in the sideboard for a few Leagues:
Carpet of Flowers: Really bad against Leovold, even without that problem definitely not what i want overall.
Pulse of Murasa: Really bad against Deathrite Shaman - when that gets banned it might be worth a try again, but not before that.
Sorcerous Spyglass: Very good in some matchups that are already very good for me, not relevant enough against blue decks (too slow against Delver to shut down their Wastelands before they waste you at least once, and Czech Pile and Miracles have a ton of anwers).
Thalia: Very good against Storm, sadly not that helpful against most other combo decks (and kinda a nombo with Explorer). I think i prefer more discard instead.

[nimkee]

I've had a lot of luck with wail, but that is partially because of colorless being my 3rd color. All of the things you've described have been made a lot easier with TKS. I still never know to stick him in or prime time vs omnitell these days.

The trade off I guess is that you get to win more combo games with teeg pre-board, and white. I face more non-combo matchups locally so I've went with that. Storm is played a lot online, no? Teeg, Knight, and Canonist are your white cards at the moment. I guess I'm shaving off percentage points vs combo for points in other areas. TKS performed so well for me I went up to 4.

Turn 1 Mox Diamond is such a great play in this deck. Would you ever consider going up to 3? I *never* want two...so I've held off up until this point.

The game where I T1 Mox Diamond into CT, into Vet, into sylvan library felt amazing. I didn't get to follow it up with a T2 TKS unfortunately, but felt good nonetheless.


Exactly that is giving me the most trouble, i get hymned on t2 way too often, especially in postboard games, and most of the time they have another Hymn or a snapcaster as a follow up. With no cards in hand from turn 3 on this deck is hard to beat, whatever i topdeck is either useless or they can deal with it. And they keep discarding my stuff, later in the game with K-Command chained with Snapcasters so i don't even really get a drawstep.
The matchup isn't unwinnable, but overall that happens often enough to turn it into a bad matchup.

Against Miracles, they just keep countering all my stuff, usually have Jace on turn 4, postboard often have Back to Basics (that alone is beatable, but not combined with Jace), sometimes have an early Mentor (which is still more beatable than Jace and B2B). I lost 2 games in a row against Miracles after casting Emrakul, didn't have Eye or Karakas and they had a Terminus set up on top with Brainstorm in hand. Also got my Eye of Ugin milled with Predict after they used Portent on me multiple times. Azcanta is definitely a problem too, if they don't have B2B they use that for too much cardadvantage - between that and Jace they often draw 3 cards a turn, enough to find answers for everything.
There was definitely some bad luck involved in my losses against Miracles, more than half the time i was either manascrewed or flooded, but even adjusting for that i have my doubts this matchup is as good as it is supposed to be.

I was playing Warping Wail last year and in the beginning of this year, but i found it underwhelming especially in these matchups. I rarely have mana up to counter a Hymn that early in the game (i played with Wail for a long time and i don't think i ever countered a Hymn with it), countering a Miracle doesn't work that often either. And overall it kinda requires a 4th color, i don't always have colorless mana in the early game. It's still a card on my radar, but the last time i tried it, it didn't really work out.


I 5-0ed a League again yesterday, with a 2nd Primeval Titan in the maindeck (but no Expedition Maps, tried them and wasn't convinced) and a lot of discard in the board (4x Thoughtseize, 2x Collective Brutality). Played Death&Taxes (2-0), Aggro-Loam (2-1), Czech Pile (2-0), BR-Reanimator (2-1), Sneak&Show (2-0).
Other cards i tried in the sideboard for a few Leagues:
Carpet of Flowers: Really bad against Leovold, even without that problem definitely not what i want overall.
Pulse of Murasa: Really bad against Deathrite Shaman - when that gets banned it might be worth a try again, but not before that.
Sorcerous Spyglass: Very good in some matchups that are already very good for me, not relevant enough against blue decks (too slow against Delver to shut down their Wastelands before they waste you at least once, and Czech Pile and Miracles have a ton of anwers).
Thalia: Very good against Storm, sadly not that helpful against most other combo decks (and kinda a nombo with Explorer). I think i prefer more discard instead.

[nimkee]

I just watched the video - sweet game and congrats!

Naming bolt made perfect sense - its what I would have named in that situation as well. Name what you fear - removal for your only creature on board. Protect it so it protects your threats from getting forced. Having enough sac targets for the Kotr does seem precarious at times, though I suppose you don't need too many if you are bopping them with a 20/20.


Last night i played a match that was streamed by jarvisyu from the other side: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/243240739 (match starts around 2:49).

I watched the video (and not the stream like at least some of his viewers were suggesting), here is what was happening from my side:
Game 1:
I paused against the DRS turn 1: I was expecting him to play Lands because he is known for that, i kept a hand that could play a T3 5/5 Knight out of just basics and that's usually good enough against Lands. Also i was planning to play Cabal Therapy on turn 1, and that plan wasn't really working any more now.
On turn 3, i wanted to play therapy and flash it back to clear out the way for my Knight next turn. I played Teeg first to be able to flash it back in any case. After that resolved, and the Therapy resolved too, Lightning Bolt was the most logical choice to name: He would have used Daze if he had it (and i can play the Knight around 1 Daze). If he has FoW, he can't play it with Teeg in play, and without Bolt he can't get Teeg of the battlefield. Also, a Bolt could very likely kill the Knight with DRS on the table. Then i made a mistake: I abandoned my plan to flash back the Therapy since his FoW was shut of by Teeg anyway, but since he had Wasteland in hand, my Knight wasn't able to bring the fast Marit Lage kill i was planning (by fetching just basics i didn't even give him the chance to use it), so i probably needed more action after the Knight - i should have flashbacked Therapy here mostly to get rid of the Teeg and turn on my GSZs again.
I get punished for that mistake immediately by drawing 2x GSZ in a row.
Now i needed to get his Wasteland of the table to stick a Marit Lage, the best way to do that was to fetch Cloudposts and threaten Eldrazi. When i fetched the Glimmerpost and copied Cloudpost with Stage, this was my thought process: I needed to get life not to die next turn. If he didn't waste here, i was probably screwed (or at least i had fewer outs), but since nobody plays a second Stage like me, this play was most likely inducing him to waste the Stage. If he does that, i still need to draw something, but i had some outs that would at least beat him if he doesn't draw anything (i'm counting: 2x Toxic Deluge, 2x Pernicious Deed, 2x Crop Rotation, 1x Stage, 1x Depths, 1x Ballista, 1x Primeval Titan, 1x Ulamog, 2x Glimmerpost, 1x Eye of Ugin, 2x Lingering Souls would ge me more time and even if i don't draw anything i can fetch another Glimmerpost for a redraw with probably fewer outs). If he wastes the copied Cloudpost instead, i could just get Marit Lage.
Since i draw my second Stage for the turn, going for Marit Lage was clearly the best play - he needed to draw 2 Bolts (or Bolt + TNN) to win against that.
Game 2:
To keep that hand was a gamble, but i think it was correct: I had enough land, i had a Toxic Deluge and i had a black source to go with it. I really only needed to find a green source in my first 4 drawsteps, including Mox Diamond. And a white source would make Lingering Souls possible, that would probably buy me some time too.
My draws this game were pretty good and from there the hand played itself. If he didn't Bolt me and instead held it for my Tracker, he would have lost that to the Cabal Therapy - i was blind naming Bolt again, since that was again the most dangerous card (and i was kinda expecting there to be another Bolt too because he knew about the Tracker).
(Note: The GSZ would have just gotten another Tracker in this spot most likely - i was thinking about Courser as the only other option, after drawing the Therapy it would have been Tracker for sure. Didn't have enough fodder for Knight for that to be good enough, didn't have enough green mana for Scooze to be good enough, and didn't want to wait for enough mana for Primeval Titan.)



About possible changes to the deck: I'm currently playing the Lingering Souls main again over Abrupt Decay (it just keeps overperforming, while all the spot removal spells underperformed - i really don't like spot removal that much in this deck, i'm playing so many lands, my spells need to be better than just 1-for-1s that are dead cards some of the time), i got rid of the Chokes in the sideboard (useless against Storm, and probably not what i want against Delver either - Delver usually beats me with very aggressive starts, i almost always win the long game, and Choke doesn't help against that. that just leaves me with other fair blue decks, i didn't get to test it against those, but i don't think it's worth it for just those matchups), i'm trying out Sorcerous Spyglass in the board (with mixed results so far - it won me a few games on the spot and it was pretty useless some other times).
And i'm also playing a Vesuva again and removed the 3rd Glimmerpost for that, mostly to have access to a 2nd Bojuka Bog when i need it (already won me some games).

[Leshrac82]

I've had a lot of luck with wail, but that is partially because of colorless being my 3rd color. All of the things you've described have been made a lot easier with TKS. I still never know to stick him in or prime time vs omnitell these days.

The trade off I guess is that you get to win more combo games with teeg pre-board, and white. I face more non-combo matchups locally so I've went with that. Storm is played a lot online, no? Teeg, Knight, and Canonist are your white cards at the moment. I guess I'm shaving off percentage points vs combo for points in other areas. TKS performed so well for me I went up to 4.

Turn 1 Mox Diamond is such a great play in this deck. Would you ever consider going up to 3? I *never* want two...so I've held off up until this point.

The game where I T1 Mox Diamond into CT, into Vet, into sylvan library felt amazing. I didn't get to follow it up with a T2 TKS unfortunately, but felt good nonetheless.

Maybe TKS works better in your list - i can't really add more colorless mana to the deck, and my white cards are too important to drop the color. You watched that game 1 against jarvisyu - even though he had a Wasteland and left that open for a long time, the Knight alone eventually got there. That happens a lot, i win almost every game where i untap with Knight, he is only really bad in the matchups where that's unlikely to happen (so Miracles and Czech Pile, you can see the pattern). And Teeg is stealing a decent number of preboard games against Storm, without him that matchup would be much worse (and without any hatebears even postboard, it would be really bad and maybe below 20% instead of close to 50%). I think in the online metagame, you just have to have a good plan for Storm, and that will probably never change - everybody talks about how unplayable Storm is these days and it's still pretty much the most played deck on Magic Online. Can't give up on that matchup to have better matchups against Miracles and Czech Pile.

I played 3 Mox Diamonds for a long time (on xmage, changed that shortly before i switched to Magic Online). Generally i think more Mox Diamonds make the combo matchups better and hurt the fair matchups. With my deck, i feel i'm in the right position against combo now and have problems especially with the fair blue decks, so i don't really want to play more. Your deck is different, so maybe 3 Mox Diamonds are better in your list.

[FatalErr]

At some point i want to go over the different matchups and write up how i'm doing and maybe more - but i really need to have a bigger samplesize for that, it just doesn't make any sense to predict winrates from 10 matches or something like that.

Please do, the sideboard guide and overall strategy before/after sideboarding against the most common decks would be very helpful!

I was trying your deck in paper a few months ago in our small local tournaments and it was very fun for both me and my opponents, although I did find that it requires sharp plays and planning turns ahead, knowing what deck can present us with (which is hard). My hands don't often "play out by themselves" as you sometimes write - probably because of my lack of experience with such decks (I usually play more straightforward 2-piece combo/controls in Legacy/Modern). Your old notes on sideboarding were pretty much a revelation when I found them, that swapping a huge chunks of the deck out, including a number of lands - your approach/playstyle is not very intuitive but seems logical, so I would like to know more about exact sideboarding and typical lines.

Having seen the newest changes to the deck in 5-0 league lists (Ballistas, more fetches and removal maindeck) makes me want to try the deck again - seems like they might help with the always present here Delver matchup, which was always giving me troubles, especially with Probe into Therapy my Mox/GSZ openings, leaving me without colored mana :(.

I've also noticed that when opponents became more familiar with this deck after playing/observing it a couple of times, they played a lot better against it (including blind Therapies), which seem like another difference between playing it online and in paper.

[Leshrac82]

Please do, the sideboard guide and overall strategy before/after sideboarding against the most common decks would be very helpful!

I was trying your deck in paper a few months ago in our small local tournaments and it was very fun for both me and my opponents, although I did find that it requires sharp plays and planning turns ahead, knowing what deck can present us with (which is hard). My hands don't often "play out by themselves" as you sometimes write - probably because of my lack of experience with such decks (I usually play more straightforward 2-piece combo/controls in Legacy/Modern). Your old notes on sideboarding were pretty much a revelation when I found them, that swapping a huge chunks of the deck out, including a number of lands - your approach/playstyle is not very intuitive but seems logical, so I would like to know more about exact sideboarding and typical lines.

Having seen the newest changes to the deck in 5-0 league lists (Ballistas, more fetches and removal maindeck) makes me want to try the deck again - seems like they might help with the always present here Delver matchup, which was always giving me troubles, especially with Probe into Therapy my Mox/GSZ openings, leaving me without colored mana :(.

I've also noticed that when opponents became more familiar with this deck after playing/observing it a couple of times, they played a lot better against it (including blind Therapies), which seem like another difference between playing it online and in paper.

Just for Delver, this is my current approach:
Sideboarding: -1 Emrakul, -1 Ulamog, -1 Gaddock Teeg, -1 Eye of Ugin. Maybe -2 Crop Rotation if i have more sideboard cards (i'm still not sure if i want Crop Rotation postboard or not), and when i'm playing Titania it's another possible cut.
That means i need at least 4 good cards against Delver in the sideboard, possibly up to 6 but not more.
Those good sideboard cards could be:
Abrupt Decay (good against especially Miracles too, also good against Mono-Red Prison but probably not needed, ok against most fair decks)
Collective Brutality (decent against many decks including most combo decks)
Swords to Plowshares (best spot removal against Delver, decent against Reanimator and Turbo-Depths, decent against fair aggressive decks but not against controlling decks like Miracles or Czech Pile)
Lingering Souls (good against pretty much every fair deck, the only real argument against it is the mana requirement - sometimes it's stuck in your hand)
Choke (probably very good against Miracles and Czech Pile, still haven't figured out how good it actually is against Delver)
more Boardwipes (Toxic Deluge, Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives - which i have played on xmage for a long time, the reason i'm not at least trying it on Magic Online is that it's too expensive for a card i'm not even that sure about)

How to play, at least against Grixis Delver:
You often need one boardwipe to resolve, getting their FoWs out of their hands to do that helps a lot - unless another card is more problematic for my current plan it's usually the card to name with a blind Therapy. The Eldrazi plan is too slow against Delver. Preboard if it comes to it i take it, resolving an Eldrazi wins almost every time, but in general you can't expect to have that much mana against their fast clock and often multiple Wastelands. And postboard it's even worse because they prioritize Wastelands, making it even harder to ramp. If they don't know your plan postboard, that helps a lot, because they are more likely to waste your Cloudposts (and i really don't care that much about my Cloudposts postboard).
Your best threat against Delver is Knight of the Reliquary, ideally you resolve that when it's big enough to survive a Bolt. This can threaten the Dark Depths combo, and it often wins me games that way. Getting to Dark Dephts with Crop Rotation is harder because of their counterspells, but backed up by discard it works too (and sometimes you have to risk it). If they expect the combo, they will often leave one Wasteland open all game. Technically you can play around that with your 2nd Stage (and this is one reason i'm playing 2 Stages), but often it's just better to try to win a fair game - if you can get a Tracker out of Bolt range things are looking good, you just have to be careful not to get burned out. Courser is pretty good against Delver too, often more valuable than a Tracker. Ballista is usually just spot removal against Delver - if i can trade it with a Delver, i do it every time.

Currently i have 3 flex slots in the maindeck (the 2nd Primeval Titan, the 4th boardwipe and in my current list Titania) and 6 flex slots in the sideboard (4 of these sideboard slots are the anti-Delver slots, the other 2 are completely open and i'm trying different things). Playing more spot removal in those slots, and maybe even more sweepers, can do some work against Delver. I haven't won a lot against Delver recently, maybe cutting my maindeck spot removal had something to do with that. In fact i lost my last 10 matches against Grixis Delver - but almost directly before that i was 14-1 over 15 matches in a row, the variance is just extremely high. This is why i don't really want to post winrates for matchups - if i can go 14-1 into 0-10, how relevant are my winrates for matchups with 10-20 matches?

Knowing this deck makes it easier to play against it for sure, i'm getting more and more opponents who have seen my lists since they got posted. But the same is true the other way around, if i know what i'm playing against that heavily influences my strategy game 1. Since decklists get posted, that is very relevant online too.

[FatalErr]

Thank you for reply! I will still be looking forward for other matchups guides someday :)

There's another question which were bothering me at the time I played the deck, how often do you get Tracker with GSZ at 4 mana (or maybe you don't and just want to draw it as it was one of few 4 ofs in the deck at the time), would you get Courser instead in some situations/matchups (probably yes if you have Library, not sure otherwise) or would you generally prefer to wait a turn or two and get Titan instead?

[Leshrac82]

Thank you for reply! I will still be looking forward for other matchups guides someday :)

There's another question which were bothering me at the time I played the deck, how often do you get Tracker with GSZ at 4 mana (or maybe you don't and just want to draw it as it was one of few 4 ofs in the deck at the time), would you get Courser instead in some situations/matchups (probably yes if you have Library, not sure otherwise) or would you generally prefer to wait a turn or two and get Titan instead?

At some point i will post more matchup guides, but it just takes a lot of time to write everything down.

What to get with 4 mana depends on the matchup and situation.
Playing against a combo deck, if it's not Teeg or Scooze i want because of the specific matchup, i usually get Knight first and Tracker 2nd - Knight can at least threaten a fast kill and usually has relevant lands to get, Tracker can at least draw some more relevant cards. I board out Courser against every combo deck.
Playing against a fair deck:
If your are under pressure, it's often best to get a Knight - it needs to live, but if you untap with a Knight it can turn many games around (i often get the Knight first against Delver, against other fair decks not that often - pay attention to the size of your Knight against Delver, it's much better if it's out of Bolt range). On a mostly empty board, Tracker is often the best option, especially if you have a landdrop to make and expect removal. If you need land, get a Courser. Also if you're in danger to get burned out get a Courser. Courser has a slightly higher priority with Library, but even then i sometimes get a Tracker first.
If i expect removal and don't have a way to get value immediately i might wait a turn, and if i'm still not under pressure and have the mana lined up for a Titan very soon i might keep on waiting for another turn.

In those situations where Courser and Tracker are clearly the only real options, it mostly depends on if you have a land for Tracker in hand or not. And with both cards you usually want to wait until you have the landdrop to make to get immediate value. If i play a Tracker without a landdrop to make, that usually means i have more action in hand and want to use my mana even though it risks missing some value.

[Neo900]

Hey everybody,
I'm building a mono green version of the deck for budget reason and to keep it simple because it's gonna be a gift to my girlfriend.
First of all my current deck list I worked out and test for two weeks:

Deck: Release the Kraken! (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/944912-release-the-kraken-/de) https://deckstats.net/mana/m/g.gif

//Lands
1 Bojuka Bog (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Bojuka+Bog)
4 Cloudpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Cloudpost)
1 Dark Depths (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Dark+Depths)
1 Eye of Ugin (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Eye+of+Ugin)
4 Forest (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Forest)
1 Glacial Chasm (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Glacial+Chasm)
4 Glimmerpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Glimmerpost)
1 Karakas (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Karakas)
1 Maze of Ith (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Maze+of+Ith)
1 Thespian's Stage (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thespian%27s+Stage)
2 Vesuva (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Vesuva)
3 Windswept Heath (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Windswept+Heath)

//Spells
4 Ancient Stirrings (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ancient+Stirrings)
4 Crop Rotation (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Crop+Rotation)
2 Elephant Grass (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Elephant+Grass)
3 Expedition Map (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Expedition+Map)
2 Green Sun's Zenith (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith)
1 Mirage Mirror (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Mirage+Mirror)
3 Mirri's Guile (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Mirri%27s+Guile)
2 Oblivion Stone (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Oblivion+Stone)
1 Pithing Needle (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Pithing+Needle)
2 Sorcerous Spyglass (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sorcerous+Spyglass)
2 Warping Wail (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Warping+Wail)

//Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Dryad+Arbor)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Emrakul%2C+the+Aeons+Torn)
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Kozilek%2C+Butcher+of+Truth)
1 Magus of the Candelabra (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Magus+of+the+Candelabra)
1 Oracle of Mul Daya (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Oracle+of+Mul+Daya)
3 Primeval Titan (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Primeval+Titan)
1 Sundering Titan (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sundering+Titan)
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ulamog%2C+the+Infinite+Gyre)

//Sideboard
2 Choke (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Choke)
2 Krosan Grip (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Krosan+Grip)
1 Moment's Peace (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Moment%27s+Peace)
1 Ramunap Excavator (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ramunap+Excavator)
2 Silent Gravestone (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Silent+Gravestone)
2 Sphere of Resistance (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sphere+of+Resistance)
2 Surgical Extraction (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Surgical+Extraction)
2 The Immortal Sun (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=The+Immortal+Sun)
1 Tsunami (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Tsunami)

show more (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/944912-release-the-kraken-)


I only play 3 Titans. Often they are a bit slow and clunky on the hand [espacially on the start hand] maybe I replace the Mirage Mirror for another. The Mirror is in a flexslot. It's a nice gimmick but I'm unsure because the card needs the right envoriment to work.

3 Mirri's Guile to filter cards. Turn one Guile makes the next turns better, often by a lot

4 Ancient Stirrings as a cantrip. 78% of the deck is colorless and I love stirrings. The downside is that I can't pick Primeval Titan or Zenith.

Elephant Grass is for protection Sorcerous Spyglass gets information and hits often Wasteland or Deathrite Shaman.

I'm unsure about Expedition Map. Is often times quite slow to be really good. Another card I have in mind for this one is Sylvan Scrying. I see the point in dropping Map turn one and fetch turn two but often times I want to do other stuff on turn 2 [Spyglass, cast ancient stirrings].

In my sideboard I play 2 Immortal Sun. The card provide some useful effects but I'm unsure about it. The biggest part is the shutdown of planeswalker.

In my maybe slot I have Harmonize [in replacment for the Immortal Sun against control], All is Dust [as removal], Emrakul the promised End [I can play it quite early and it's good against storm/combo] and the Sylvan Srying I talked about.


The biggest issue is the consistency and to assemble pressure on the opponent. Another idea would be to copy Tron [modern] and adjust it to a cloudpost build.

[Valleysdai]

In my sideboard I play 2 Immortal Sun. The card provide some useful effects but I'm unsure about it. The biggest part is the shutdown of planeswalker.

In my maybe slot I have Harmonize [in replacment for the Immortal Sun against control], All is Dust [as removal], Emrakul the promised End [I can play it quite early and it's good against storm/combo] and the Sylvan Srying I talked about.

Looks good, in my UG version emrakul, the promised end does so much work. I was unsure about it at the start but it has won me so many games and a lot of those I had no right winning.

With the immortal sun would it be better to have more pithing needle/spyglass effects because you can get them down as soon as the planeswalker is down rather than until you have 6 mana.

[Neo900]

Looks good, in my UG version emrakul, the promised end does so much work. I was unsure about it at the start but it has won me so many games and a lot of those I had no right winning.
Maybe I find a spot to fit it in. Or really as a sideboard because it looks so nice against storm.




With the immortal sun would it be better to have more pithing needle/spyglass effects because you can get them down as soon as the planeswalker is down rather than until you have 6 mana.

Yeah, sun is a nice gimmick but nothing more :( I saw a interesting list in the Facebook group which I play with some changes. Relic of Progenitus in the mainboard looked weird at first but it turned out to be quite good. It slows down all the Deathrite Shaman decks to a level where I can operate much better. I keep testing before I post the new list.

I don't know if anybody mentioned before but what are the thoughts of the new karn? He draws cards and can create some creatures which get some benefit out of our needles

[k_omega]

I don't know if anybody mentioned before but what are the thoughts of the new karn? He draws cards and can create some creatures which get some benefit out of our needles

I tested Coercive Portal a while back and found it to be mediocre. New Karn is better than Portal in that Karn can "draw" a card the turn it enters play, but it comes with the risk of the opponent stranding a key land or Eldrazi in exile by killing the Karn. For this reason you would have to play at least 2 Karns. The ability to produce blockers could be very good, especially in builds with Candelabras, but it could be a problem that creating one immediately puts Karn in range of Bolt and Delver. Eating a Bolt or a Delver hit could still be good though.

So basically, new Karn looks like a small improvement on Coercive Portal provided that you have the board mostly under control and don't get your Emrakul stuck in exile. I play a C/g build with 4 each of Candelabras, Needles, and Maps and plan to test out 2 copies if I can get them cheaply.

Regarding the list you posted earlier, I think it will be fine as a fun and reasonably competitive deck. Sundering Titan is an odd inclusion though - it seems to me that you would be forced to destroy one of your Forests in too many games. Also, with only 2 GSZ you might get stuck with Dryad Arbor in hand a lot, but maybe Mirri's Guile is enough to prevent that.

[Neo900]

The exile part of karn seems problematic.
With an active mirris guile or after brainstorm /ponder we can control it at least a bit.

Sundering Titan wasn't the huge bomb I expected it would be.

Dryad arbor is not that problematic. I probably go up to 3 zenith.
Arbor is a nice ramp, a surprise blocker sometimes and protection against edict effects. I started with 2 arbors but that was just clunky.

[Valleysdai]

Anyone have experience getting damping sphere down against combo decks?

[Neo900]

Is damping sphere that good in a post deck? It shuts down storm decks but also our own engine. I can imagine how you play sphere turn 1 or 2 and the storm player has a problem. But he has also enough time to search his out like chain of vapor and after 3 turns he plays chain and starts his combo.

At the moment I see damping sphere as a card you want to have against ramp decks and not in them.

[nimkee]

For those of you who have 5-0'd with 12 post decks, on mtgo, how many times did it take? What sort of success are you seeing? Are you breaking even at least with any of your lists?

I do pretty well with the different post variants I run locally, but mtgo has been quite rough for me. I only managed to 3-2 once so far out of close to 10 leagues. I've had the most "success" with a slightly modified old school boozecube Cg post.

Local neighborhood Poster,

[Leshrac82]

For those of you who have 5-0'd with 12 post decks, on mtgo, how many times did it take? What sort of success are you seeing? Are you breaking even at least with any of your lists?

I do pretty well with the different post variants I run locally, but mtgo has been quite rough for me. I only managed to 3-2 once so far out of close to 10 leagues. I've had the most "success" with a slightly modified old school boozecube Cg post.

Local neighborhood Poster,

MTGO is certainly much harder than any local playgroup. It's much harder than xmage at least, and while i don't play any paper magic at all, from what i have heard the paper metagame outside of big events is probably closer to xmage, while on MTGO you won't find many decks that aren't Tier 1 or at least Tier 2, and all the MTGO decklists for specific archetypes are usually very similar.

Overall my winrate is still over 50% (that's where you need to be to break even at least), around 54% now after some very rough weeks, it was close to 60% at some point. I haven't cashed my last 7 Leagues (and 4 of them ended 0-3), i don't really know what changed - certainly everything i tried completely failed. I'm not sure how long i will keep trying, if it's not getting better soon i will just sell some cards and buy a deck that's at least Tier 2.

The current metagame seems pretty hostile unfortunately. I haven't seen many Lands decks recently (my best matchup), i have seen more Maverick than DnT recently (Maverick is not bad, but DnT is a much better matchup), i haven't seen many Chalice decks (pretty much all Chalice decks are good matchups, especially Mono-Red Prison - in my last 50 matches i have only played against 2 Chalice decks), among the combo decks some Reanimator and Turbo Depths seem to have evolved into Fin Depths (which seems harder than either of the other two matchups), Miracles is now always playing maindeck Mentor and Back to Basics (and that makes it a really bad matchup, not just for my build), all the Brainstorm + Deathrite decks have gone up in metagame share because they haven't been hit with a ban (those aren't terrible matchups, but they aren't great either - and recently i'm losing much more against those decks than i used to).

[nimkee]

Okay, so I'm not just crazy. I was noticing the same thing - less lands, dnt, and chalice decks plus more difficulty from the other tier 1 decks. Miracles with maindeck mentor and b2b (though occasionally its field of ruin) has been rough for me. I've also been losing more to the brainstorm / drs decks. A lot of those players are pretty active in discussion groups. They may have just figured out how to play the matchup.

I gave Cg another try but ended up 2-3 again. Some of them were close matchups, but close matchups when you are playing against brainstorm and ponder probably aren't as close as I'd like to think.


MTGO is certainly much harder than any local playgroup. It's much harder than xmage at least, and while i don't play any paper magic at all, from what i have heard the paper metagame outside of big events is probably closer to xmage, while on MTGO you won't find many decks that aren't Tier 1 or at least Tier 2, and all the MTGO decklists for specific archetypes are usually very similar.

Overall my winrate is still over 50% (that's where you need to be to break even at least), around 54% now after some very rough weeks, it was close to 60% at some point. I haven't cashed my last 7 Leagues (and 4 of them ended 0-3), i don't really know what changed - certainly everything i tried completely failed. I'm not sure how long i will keep trying, if it's not getting better soon i will just sell some cards and buy a deck that's at least Tier 2.

The current metagame seems pretty hostile unfortunately. I haven't seen many Lands decks recently (my best matchup), i have seen more Maverick than DnT recently (Maverick is not bad, but DnT is a much better matchup), i haven't seen many Chalice decks (pretty much all Chalice decks are good matchups, especially Mono-Red Prison - in my last 50 matches i have only played against 2 Chalice decks), among the combo decks some Reanimator and Turbo Depths seem to have evolved into Fin Depths (which seems harder than either of the other two matchups), Miracles is now always playing maindeck Mentor and Back to Basics (and that makes it a really bad matchup, not just for my build), all the Brainstorm + Deathrite decks have gone up in metagame share because they haven't been hit with a ban (those aren't terrible matchups, but they aren't great either - and recently i'm losing much more against those decks than i used to).

[Leshrac82]

Okay, so I'm not just crazy. I was noticing the same thing - less lands, dnt, and chalice decks plus more difficulty from the other tier 1 decks. Miracles with maindeck mentor and b2b (though occasionally its field of ruin) has been rough for me. I've also been losing more to the brainstorm / drs decks. A lot of those players are pretty active in discussion groups. They may have just figured out how to play the matchup.

I gave Cg another try but ended up 2-3 again. Some of them were close matchups, but close matchups when you are playing against brainstorm and ponder probably aren't as close as I'd like to think.

The problem with all those Brainstorm/DRS decks is: There isn't really any way to attack them. I can make small adjustments to my deck to beat any single combo deck (not all at once obviously) if i want to, and i think even against the current Miracles decks i could build the deck to beat them (probably starting with 4x Abrupt Decay), but there aren't any cards to do that against the DRS + Brainstorm decks. For a few Leagues i tried an experiment and cut all the Posts and everything related to it from my deck and turned it pretty much into a regular NicFit deck with lots of spot removal. That deck should have crushed Grixis Delver - and i lost almost every match against it, the spotremoval never lined up right against their threats, i was sitting there with Abrupt Decay against Angler or Swords against TNN. These decks are just way too good for the format, their metagame share is growing more and more and everything built to beat them slowly vanishes again once they figure out how to play against that (if it's not clear already, i really want something banned as soon as possible). I mean, Lands was supposed to be the best deck against those decks, but multiple Delver players have said Lands is a good matchup for them, and the fact that Lands is declining in metagame share online (where the price shouldn't be an issue) backs up that they were right and the Delver players just needed to figure out the matchup. And Chalice decks are supposed to be good against those decks too. When the metagame share for the best decks is growing while all the decks that are supposed to beat it are declining, something is very wrong with the format.

Well, enough ranting for today. Somehow i managed to 5-0 a League just after my post yesterday and 4-1ed the next, but that doesn't really change anything. What i did again for those Leagues was cutting all my spot removal (since my experiment with the regular NicFit deck confirmed my concerns about those cards), and with this current configuration i'm pretty much accepting to always lose against Miracles because i can't really answer anything they do. The other thing i took from my NicFit experiment was adding Eternal Witness to my toolbox and trying out Volrath's Stronghold, Witness was stronger than expected in the face of DRS everywhere, and Stronghold was at least good enough to always get wasted before any other land and won a few games for the NicFit deck.

[k_omega]

I made 6-2 with a C/g list at the SCG Baltimore Classic last weekend to miss top 16 on tiebreakers. Here is the list:

-----------------------------------
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle
3 Maze of Ith
7 Forest

1 Old Emrakul, New Emrakul, New Ulamog, New Kozilek

4 Crop Rotation, Ancient Stirrings, Candelabra, Map
3 Pithing Needle, Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb, All is Dust, Ugin

Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance
1 Dark Depths, Spatial Contortion, Silent Arbiter, Sorcerous Spyglass
-----------------------------------

The main difference from the standard C/g build is 7 Forests instead of 8 and 3 Wails instead of 4 to make room for 2 maindeck Ratchet Bombs. The Bombs used to be Mirage Mirrors, but I kept boarding those out at FNMs and wanting real answers to cards that have caused frustrating losses over the past few months:


Chalice on 1
Mentor/Pyromancer and their tokens
Leovold (because it makes Maze + Candelabra terrible and that's the primary answer to opposing creatures)
Maindeck hate out of blue decks (Back to Basics, Counterbalance in Miracles)
Game 1 Blood Moon


The real answer to these questions is Abrupt Decay, but when I tested a C/g/b build I would not draw the Decays on time or, more importantly, would have to fetch a second colored-mana source which is awkward and not always possible against Moon. Bombs can be fetched with Ancient Stirrings, required no colored mana, and have the added benefit of taking out planeswalkers and True-Names (at least in principle).

Putting Bombs in the maindeck frees up space for a fourth Grip and a Silent Arbiter. I changed the sideboarded Needle to a Spyglass to dodge Chalice on 1 and because I haven't played Spyglass before and wanted to test it.

Match Reports
My recollection of some details is fuzzy. Longer reports mean I found the game interesting in some way so details there are more likely to be correct.
Round 1: 0-2 vs. Grixis Delver
In game 1 I keep a hand with Maze, lands, and Wail but never find a Cloudpost to cast the sweepers I had to clean up his threats. Game 2 is the opposite; I draw Cloudposts but no action to go with them.
Sideboard: -1 Bog, -1 Bomb, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Silent Arbiter

Round 2: 2-1 vs. ANT
Game 1: He durdles for a while, sees my Warping Wail with a Probe, and casts Dark Petition into it. After a few turns of draw-cantrip-go I counter the Petition and he doesn't have enough mana to go off, whereas after cracking 2 Maps I have Karakas + Emrakul + Mana for the win.
Sideboard: -3 Maze, -3 Needle, -2 Ugin, -1 Chasm, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Sphere of Resistance, +3 Surgical, +1 Depths, +1 Spyglass. Spyglass is for the peek effect. It's not necessary to bring it in, but it's better than Ugin since I have Ratchet Bomb and Tabernacle for Empty the Warrens.
Game 2: I keep a slow hand and he discards my Warping Wail. I have a choice between Candelabra + second Cloudpost on turn 2 to enable a T3 Kozilek and play Glimmerpost for 2 life to force another spell for a Tendrils kill. I go with the former and die to Tendrils.
Game 3: He Duresses me but does not take the Ancient Stirrings that finds a Sphere. I eventually land two more spheres, locking him out while I wait to topdeck Cloudpost + threat. Eventually I get Karakas + Emrakul.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. D&T
Game 1: I set up Maze + Candelabra to contain an expanding array of creatures. I Mindslaver him with New Emrakul and because he fetched Jitte with Stoneforge I am able to clear a swath of his board with his own Jitte counters. He suits up a Stoneforge and concedes to Ratchet Bomb ticking up to 2.
Sideboard: -1 Bog, -1 Map, -1 Bomb, +1 Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Spyglass
Game 2: I slow him down with a Tabernacle which he Wastelands over a Cloudpost. The second Cloudpost and a Glimmerpost keep me alive long enough to get New Emrakul + Karakas which prompts a concession.

Round 4: 2-0 vs. Grixis Delver
Game 1: This player is either very unskilled or just not familiar with the matchup. I keep a speculative hand with double Cloudpost and double Needle which name Wasteland and DRS. I think I got hit by TNN a couple of times before resolving All is Dust -> Eldrazi.
Sideboard: -1 Bog, -1 Bomb, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Silent Arbiter
Game 2: This game is not much different, except that I have no Needles. I sense that my opponent does not know what he's doing and play a Glimmerpost for 1 life which, as I expect, he Wastelands. That was his one Wasteland and I have more Glimmerposts to offset TNN. I rotate for Eye in his upkeep and he decides not to hardcast Force on it, so he loses.

Round 5: 2-0 vs. D&T
Game 1: A standard game 1 in which Maze + Candelabra holds off his creatures while I draw Cloudposts and, eventually, old Emrakul.
Sideboard: -1 Bog, -1 Map, -1 Bomb, +1 Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Spyglass
Game 2: I keep a hand without Cloudposts and a swarm of creatures forces me to Map for Tabernacle instead of Cloudpost. We both mulliganed and he is light on lands, so Tabernacle + Maze and Stage-copying-Maze + Candelabra are enough to hold off his creatures. I eventually use 3 Vesuvas copying the Stage to get a land base that adapts to my needs and has some protection against Wasteland, but a Sanctum Prelate on 1 has locked out my action. He Flickerwisps a Vesuva-Stage which I bring back as a Glimmerpost to provide the last mana for All is Dust. One Cloudpost later the Eldrazi start to arrive as the Stage-Mazes copy the Cloudpost. Thespian's Stage was an all-star throughout the day.

Round 6: 1-2 vs. Grixis Delver
Game 1: I am two mana short of casting an Eldrazi when he Wastelands the Maze that is holding off his Delver. An Angler arrives and I don't find a threat or sweeper in time.
Sideboard: -1 Chasm, -1 Bomb, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Silent Arbiter. After the previous matches I was thinking that Chasm might not be worth keeping in, so I put that idea to the test by boarding it out.
Game 2: He is stuck on an Underground Sea and a Wasteland, which he declines to use on Cloudpost. Apparently he has no counterspells either because Ugin resolves and he scoops.
Game 3: I set up Maze + 2x Candelabra which appears to be enough, but he has Ancient Grudge for both Candelabras and a second Angler to go around the Maze. My opening hand had two Crop Rotations and I drew a third, but with only one Forest I'm forced into some awkward plays to progress my gameplan in time. I end up Vesuva-ing the Forest to rotate the Vesuva (for Bog in response to Deathrite for green mana to flashback Grudge on the second Candelabra), but because I copied the Maze with a Stage I don't have enough mana for Spell Pierce. Daze counters the second Crop Rotation now that I'm down one mana source. At this point I need to topdeck very well and don't.

Round 7: 2-0 vs. D&T
Game 1: He has 3x Mother of Runes and no Wastelands, so this game is a cakewalk.
Sideboard: -1 Bog, -1 Map, -1 Bomb, +1 Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Spyglass
Game 2: He boarded in Brimaz which is pretty good against Maze of Ith. Ratchet Bomb clears up some Cat tokens, but I am short on Cloudposts to cast the Ugin in hand. I topdeck a Vesuva at the critical moment to copy my one Cloudpost which is enough for Ugin the next turn after falling to 1 off the attack. His only surviving creature is a Revoker (shutting off two Maps) but I have three Mazes for it and Ugin kills it the turn after. So he scoops.

Round 8: 2-1 vs. Sneak and Show
Game 1: He goes for a T2 Show and Tell -> Emrakul but has no counterspell for my Crop Rotation -> Karakas. I put in a Needle on Griselbrand (wrong name, but it worked out well). I bounce the Emrakul and miraculously he draws enough air for me to cast and ultimate Ugin.
Sideboard: -1 Maze, -1 Bog, -2 Ugin, -2 All is Dust, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Chasm, -1 Kozilek, -2 Bomb, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Sphere of Resistance, +4 Grip, +2 Surgical, +1 Spyglass.
Game 2: I have a reasonable hand with a Sphere of Resistance, Crop Rotation, and Krosan Grip but he goes for Sneak Attack and I do not draw the third mana for the Grip. He also has Force for the Crop Rotation so I die to the second round of sneaked-in creatures.
Sideboard: -1 Sphere of Resistance, +1 Dark Depths. Now I remember the new interaction between Depths and Blood Moon and figure it might be good enough to win.
Game 3: My hand has Map, Grip, and Trinisphere so I keep. Spyglass (on Sneak Attack) shows me a hand with cantrips, 2x Show and Tell, Emrakul and no counterspells. He Show and Tells into Emrakul and I put in Trinisphere, then bounce Emrakul with Karakas. We draw-go for a while, then he Intuitions for Abrade, Blood Moon, Blood Moon and I let him have a Moon so I can Map -> Depths and then Grip the Moon, and because I don't want him to Abrade the Trinisphere. The plan works beautifully as he taps himself out for Show and Tell -> Emrakul and can't cast anything else through the Trinisphere. I Grip the Blood Moon, bounce Emrakul again and attack for lethal with Marit Lage.

Observations:

Ratchet Bombs were OK. I never played the matchups I intended them for so one of them would have been better as the fourth Warping Wail. I think Ratchet Bomb is superior to Engineered Explosives because being able to destroy >1cc permanents is helpful more often than the lower casting cost to destroy tokens. In my view the verdict is still out on whether Ratchet Bomb pulls enough weight.

The C/g builds fare best against Delver out of any 12 Post variant I've played, but Grixis Delver is a very good deck and the matchup needs work. I think it would have been correct to sideboard: -1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Crop Rotation, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Spyglass. Chasm can't be guaranteed to stay in play long enough, and they can aggressively DRS with one in play. Spyglass can either shut off Wasteland or DRS. DRS, Therapy, and Angler make Bojuka Bog more valuable and they can bring in Ancient Grudge which should be bogged if possible. However, Crop Rotation is really bad when casting it with low resources if they have counterspells.

Thespian's Stage won a lot of games by copying a useful land and then later turning into a Cloudpost. Maybe a second copy would be helpful, but I think that is unnecessary. Vesuva has the advantage of gaining life when copying a Glimmerpost so I think it is incorrect to cut a Vesuva for a Stage.

I did not miss the 8th Forest. I mulliganed some hands due to lack of green mana but they did not contain Ratchet Bombs so they would have been mulligans anyway.
With the rules change to Blood Moon, Dark Depths seems to be a strong line against Sneak and Show.
The success in this event comes mostly from steamrolling several D&T players and I only faced four different archetypes, so the results are not representative of how the deck would perform in a more varied metagame.


At the moment there are no changes that I would recommend confidently, but it might be OK to cut the Silent Arbiter from the sideboard and it would be nice to have a maindeck Spatial Contortion.

[Neo900]

First of all congrats on the finish.
I like some aspects of your list a lot.
I think Ratchet Bomb is often quite underrated by everyone.

I have a some questions about some choices.

1. Maze of Ith: didn't you have the feeling they slow you down sometimes? I like it so far as a one of but 3 seems a bit much and they don't give you any mana.

2. Playing 4 candelabra seems to much. Aren't they a bit annoying sometimes?

3. Vesuva: those are extra glimmer and cloudpost but only if you have already one. I have often the problem that I have them on the start hand and can't do anything with them. What are your experiences?

I have the problem that my early and mid game is quite hard sometimes.
Don't you miss Primeval Titan sometimes?
I always want it to make the jump ahead.

[k_omega]

First of all congrats on the finish.
I like some aspects of your list a lot.
I think Ratchet Bomb is often quite underrated by everyone.

I have a some questions about some choices.

1. Maze of Ith: didn't you have the feeling they slow you down sometimes? I like it so far as a one of but 3 seems a bit much and they don't give you any mana.

2. Playing 4 candelabra seems to much. Aren't they a bit annoying sometimes?

3. Vesuva: those are extra glimmer and cloudpost but only if you have already one. I have often the problem that I have them on the start hand and can't do anything with them. What are your experiences?

I have the problem that my early and mid game is quite hard sometimes.
Don't you miss Primeval Titan sometimes?
I always want it to make the jump ahead.

It sounds like you're used to playing Primeval Titan versions, which is what I played before Top got banned. From the perspective of those builds your skepticism is completely justified; I played zero Mazes, 2 Vesuva, and at most 1 Candelabra when I played Primeval Titans for exactly the reasons you mentioned. This build, however, is designed to be as flexible as possible and Primeval Titan has two major conflicts with that goal: 1) It requires two green mana sources, which constrains which lands can be sacrificed for Crop Rotation and sometimes forces you to tutor for a Forest; 2) Having Titans and Eldrazi means more unplayable starting hands and bad topdecks since you can't always cast them. These problems are worsened now that we can't filter our draws with Divining Tops. In my build, all the early-game cards can be cast with one Forest and one colorless source, so I can always Rotate away extra Forests as needed. This also means that I can keep opening hands with only two mana-producing lands which helps prevent mulligans. I keep hands with Forest, Glimmerpost, Vesuva and no other lands all the time if the other cards are good.

The result is that this version is considerably slower, which leads to the answers to your questions.

1) Maze of Ith is there to prolong the game by being a zero-mana removal spell that can't be countered. Without Titan as a shortcut, we need to make sure we survive long enough to find and cast the Eldrazi. Obviously Maze requires a land drop, but think of it this way: if the opponent has a Deathrite Shaman and an Insectile Aberration, you have 4 turns to win. Playing Maze costs you 1 turn but essentially removes the Delver so that you then have 10 turns. So you pay 1 turn to gain 6.

2) Once Maze is in play, a Candelabra acts as a removal spell that also ramps up mana production. Since the opponent will have time to find a second threat, we will need to find removal and the combination of removal +advancing our own game plan is too potent to use fewer than 4 copies. Also, in some matchups we really need to be fast and Candelabras help.

3) Like with Candelabras, once a Maze is in play Vesuvas also act as removal spells. This build frequently ends up topdecking, and a land that copies the best available land is good to draw. In the early turns, I usually keep Vesuvas in hand until I have a good land to copy. Since the deck requires so few lands in the early game this is usually not a problem. At the tournament I won several games where I stalled with Forest + land + Maze + Candelabra for a few turns because Maze + Candelabra bought enough time to topdeck the important cards.

I've considered putting Primeval Titan in the sideboard to bring in against Lands because its much easier to get 6 mana against them than 10 and they can't remove it, but fewer people play Lands now and I don't have that much trouble beating it without Titans. Other than that I don't miss it. If you want to play some, I suggest playing 8 or more Forests since you will not want to have to spend a Map getting a Forest for Titan.

I've played 2-3 Mazes and 3-4 Candelabras in every iteration of this deck and the 3/4 split is the best. The fourth Maze is unnecessary because Vesuva, Stage, and Candelabra all duplicate the effect while also performing other functions in the deck, whereas Maze only does one thing. I wouldn't play a build like this with fewer than 3 Candelabras

[MechTactical]

@omega why don’t you include a ballista or two? Seems like a good fit for Cg.

[k_omega]

@omega why don’t you include a ballista or two? Seems like a good fit for Cg.

It's on my list of things to try. There are only 2-3 slots in the deck that I consider flexible so I can only test one card at a time. Right now it's Ratchet Bomb because Ballista doesn't deal with Chalice and is bad against Leovold.

[MechTactical]

It's on my list of things to try. There are only 2-3 slots in the deck that I consider flexible so I can only test one card at a time. Right now it's Ratchet Bomb because Ballista doesn't deal with Chalice and is bad against Leovold.

True, but it adds a fundamental new ability to your deck (direct damage to player/creature). It seems like ballista would work best in Cg since this version generates the most amounts of mana among all iterations of post.dck. You can fetch it with eye or find it with stirrings. Although I don't play Cg, I would think ballista would be an auto-include.

[MechTactical]

I’m very interested if Rock is still playing post? And if he is what the hell is he playing? Or did our creator simply give up after SDT ban?? :really:
Regarding straight UG I went back to Rock’s post-SDT wish list, which I think is probably the “only viable” straight UG list I’ve played in the post SDT era.

[Neo900]

Last monday our local playgroup met for a barbecue and magic evening.
I wanted to give the deck its first paper try with this list:

Deck: Release the Kraken! (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/944912-release-the-kraken-/de) :g:
//Lands
1 Bojuka Bog (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Bojuka+Bog)
4 Cloudpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Cloudpost)
1 Eye of Ugin (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Eye+of+Ugin)
4 Forest (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Forest)
4 Glimmerpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Glimmerpost)
1 Karakas (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Karakas)
1 Maze of Ith (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Maze+of+Ith)
1 Thespian's Stage (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thespian%27s+Stage)
1 Vesuva (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Vesuva)
4 Windswept Heath (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Windswept+Heath)

//Spells
4 Ancient Stirrings (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ancient+Stirrings)
4 Crop Rotation (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Crop+Rotation)
2 Expedition Map (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Expedition+Map)
3 Explore (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Explore)
2 Green Sun's Zenith (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith)
2 Moment's Peace (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Moment%27s+Peace)
2 Oblivion Stone (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Oblivion+Stone)
1 Pithing Needle (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Pithing+Needle)
2 Sorcerous Spyglass (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sorcerous+Spyglass)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ugin%2C+the+Spirit+Dragon)

//Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Dryad+Arbor)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Emrakul%2C+the+Aeons+Torn)
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Kozilek%2C+the+Great+Distortion)
1 Oracle of Mul Daya (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Oracle+of+Mul+Daya)
3 Primeval Titan (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Primeval+Titan)
4 Thought-Knot Seer (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thought-Knot+Seer)
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ulamog%2C+the+Infinite+Gyre)
2 Wurmcoil Engine (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Wurmcoil+Engine)

//Sideboard
2 Choke (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Choke)
1 Creeping Corrosion (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Creeping+Corrosion)
1 Glacial Chasm (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Glacial+Chasm)
2 Krosan Grip (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Krosan+Grip)
1 Life from the Loam (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Life+from+the+Loam)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Phyrexian+Revoker)
2 Relic of Progenitus (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Relic+of+Progenitus)
2 Surgical Extraction (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Surgical+Extraction)
2 Thorn of Amethyst (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thorn+of+Amethyst)

Show more (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/944912-release-the-kraken-)

I won against Czech Pile and Steel Stompy and lost against BUG Control and BUG Death Shadow.
The biggest problem is consistency. Ancient Stirrings is a nice cantrip but can't find colored cards which is an issue.
I like the Thought-Knot Seer. I think it's what the deck needs in the early and midgame. With a 4/4 body it can hit hard and the Thougtseize effect gives me the possibility to get some control and interaction.
Wurmcoil Engine destroys every deck which tries to grind me out and survives an Oblivion Stone, more or less.
I want to fit a Dark Depths in to have another win option.

[sunlith42]

I’m very interested if Rock is still playing post? And if he is what the hell is he playing? Or did our creator simply give up after SDT ban?? :really:
Regarding straight UG I went back to Rock’s post-SDT wish list, which I think is probably the “only viable” straight UG list I’ve played in the post SDT era.

I play at a local shop where he plays. Most weeks he is still on UG Post.

[zathe922]

I’m very interested if Rock is still playing post? And if he is what the hell is he playing? Or did our creator simply give up after SDT ban?? :really:
Regarding straight UG I went back to Rock’s post-SDT wish list, which I think is probably the “only viable” straight UG list I’ve played in the post SDT era.

Hes fairly active in the facebook group.

[MechTactical]

Thanks, guys. Could someone tell Mr. Creator that we non-facebook minions need his guidance? I want to hear his thoughts regarding the current meta and what the hell is he playing (I want lists, card choices/ideas, or a simple don’t play UG it’s bad for your cardio)??
I want to buy into MTGO despite everything I hear, but I can’t decide on what to play. I’ve been messing around with 1000 different iterations of UGx, and I’m kinda lost on which one to buy at the end of the day. So I guess netdecking comes to mind…

[ksesler]

Hes fairly active in the facebook group.

What is the name of the Facebook Group?
Thanks.
Keith

[Neo900]

What is the name of the Facebook Group?
Thanks.
KeithIt's called "our Lady of annihilation - 12 Post discussion group"

[moseby]

Hes fairly active in the facebook group.

What is the name of the FB group?

[Neo900]

After trying a Cg version, I took some aspects from a quite similar strategy; modern tron, coming to this list:

Deck: Punishing Titan (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/1023852-punishing-titan/de)

//Lands
1 Bojuka Bog (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Bojuka+Bog)
1 Cavern of Souls (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Cavern+of+Souls)
4 Cloudpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Cloudpost)
1 Dark Depths (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Dark+Depths)
1 Eye of Ugin (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Eye+of+Ugin)
3 Forest (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Forest)
4 Glimmerpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Glimmerpost)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Grove+of+the+Burnwillows)
1 Karakas (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Karakas)
1 Sanctum of Ugin (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sanctum+of+Ugin)
1 Taiga (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Taiga)
1 Thespian's Stage (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thespian%27s+Stage)
2 Vesuva (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Vesuva)

//Spells
1 All Is Dust (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=All+Is+Dust)
4 Ancient Stirrings (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ancient+Stirrings)
3 Crop Rotation (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Crop+Rotation)
4 Expedition Map (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Expedition+Map)
4 Explore (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Explore)
1 Kozilek's Return (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Kozilek%27s+Return)
3 Punishing Fire (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Punishing+Fire)
1 Scour from Existence (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Scour+from+Existence)
2 Sorcerous Spyglass (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sorcerous+Spyglass)
1 Summer Bloom (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Summer+Bloom)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ugin%2C+the+Spirit+Dragon)

//Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Emrakul%2C+the+Aeons+Torn)
4 Primeval Titan (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Primeval+Titan)
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ulamog%2C+the+Ceaseless+Hunger)
1 World Breaker (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=World+Breaker)
2 Wurmcoil Engine (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Wurmcoil+Engine)

//Sideboard
1 By Force (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=By+Force)
2 Choke (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Choke)
2 Krosan Grip (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Krosan+Grip)
1 Life from the Loam (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Life+from+the+Loam)
1 Pithing Needle (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Pithing+Needle)
2 Pyroblast (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Pyroblast)
2 Surgical Extraction (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Surgical+Extraction)
2 Thorn of Amethyst (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thorn+of+Amethyst)
2 Tormod's Crypt (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Tormod%27s+Crypt)

Show more (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/1023852-punishing-titan)

it feels like a tron with a little power up. Playing no chromatic star/sphere but 4 Explore instead. The additional land drop is quite handy because unlike tron our lands produce way more mana for each copy in play.
Punishing fire as redudant removal spell; we have the mana anyway.
World breaker main against chalice of the void mostly.
Scour from existence as removal spell. quite expensive with 7 mana (triggers sanctum of ugin) but capable of removing everything. I like it so far.
1-off summer bloom to have the chance to explode hard. I'm unsure about this one off summer bloom. if I have it it's nice but... Probably the first thing I would cut, probably I want Oracle of Mul Daya.
sanctum of ugin allows us after All is dust, for example, to follow up with a creature. It's a nice tutor.
Besides this I would consider this as normal card choices.

Maybeboard:
Karn scion of urza is interesting but I don't know if he is powerful enough. We can get mana so easily that bigger threats can make it.
Oracle of mul daya brings some consisteny, as I mentioned I probably cut the summer bloom.
Inferno Titan is another giant which can be cast with cavern but double red seems akward and I have the feeling that I have enough removal.

[203995014]

After trying a Cg version, I took some aspects from a quite similar strategy; modern tron, coming to this list:

Deck: Punishing Titan (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/1023852-punishing-titan/de)

//Lands
1 Bojuka Bog (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Bojuka+Bog)
1 Cavern of Souls (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Cavern+of+Souls)
4 Cloudpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Cloudpost)
1 Dark Depths (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Dark+Depths)
1 Eye of Ugin (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Eye+of+Ugin)
3 Forest (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Forest)
4 Glimmerpost (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Glimmerpost)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Grove+of+the+Burnwillows)
1 Karakas (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Karakas)
1 Sanctum of Ugin (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sanctum+of+Ugin)
1 Taiga (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Taiga)
1 Thespian's Stage (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thespian%27s+Stage)
2 Vesuva (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Vesuva)

//Spells
1 All Is Dust (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=All+Is+Dust)
4 Ancient Stirrings (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ancient+Stirrings)
3 Crop Rotation (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Crop+Rotation)
4 Expedition Map (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Expedition+Map)
4 Explore (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Explore)
1 Kozilek's Return (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Kozilek%27s+Return)
3 Punishing Fire (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Punishing+Fire)
1 Scour from Existence (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Scour+from+Existence)
2 Sorcerous Spyglass (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Sorcerous+Spyglass)
1 Summer Bloom (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Summer+Bloom)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ugin%2C+the+Spirit+Dragon)

//Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Emrakul%2C+the+Aeons+Torn)
4 Primeval Titan (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Primeval+Titan)
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ulamog%2C+the+Ceaseless+Hunger)
1 World Breaker (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=World+Breaker)
2 Wurmcoil Engine (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Wurmcoil+Engine)

//Sideboard
1 By Force (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=By+Force)
2 Choke (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Choke)
2 Krosan Grip (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Krosan+Grip)
1 Life from the Loam (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Life+from+the+Loam)
1 Pithing Needle (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Pithing+Needle)
2 Pyroblast (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Pyroblast)
2 Surgical Extraction (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Surgical+Extraction)
2 Thorn of Amethyst (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Thorn+of+Amethyst)
2 Tormod's Crypt (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Tormod%27s+Crypt)

Show more (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/1023852-punishing-titan)

it feels like a tron with a little power up. Playing no chromatic star/sphere but 4 Explore instead. The additional land drop is quite handy because unlike tron our lands produce way more mana for each copy in play.
Punishing fire as redudant removal spell; we have the mana anyway.
World breaker main against chalice of the void mostly.
Scour from existence as removal spell. quite expensive with 7 mana (triggers sanctum of ugin) but capable of removing everything. I like it so far.
1-off summer bloom to have the chance to explode hard. I'm unsure about this one off summer bloom. if I have it it's nice but... Probably the first thing I would cut, probably I want Oracle of Mul Daya.
sanctum of ugin allows us after All is dust, for example, to follow up with a creature. It's a nice tutor.
Besides this I would consider this as normal card choices.

Maybeboard:
Karn scion of urza is interesting but I don't know if he is powerful enough. We can get mana so easily that bigger threats can make it.
Oracle of mul daya brings some consisteny, as I mentioned I probably cut the summer bloom.
Inferno Titan is another giant which can be cast with cavern but double red seems akward and I have the feeling that I have enough removal.

I'm interested as to why you're running Scour from Existence instead of Karn Liberated. Sorcerous Spyglass over Pithing Needle seems a little sketchy as well.

[Neo900]

The benefit of scour from existence is the instant speed. Karn ia great and is probably worth trying in this slot.
Spyglass for two reasons;
1. The information gained is quite helpful to plan the next steps and what to name with it. If my opponent is clearly on miracles I can safely say Jace.
2. Playing around chailice of the void. Chalice is horrible enough. Also: most of the time I can start with a Cloudpost and wouldn't be able to play first turn needle anyway.

[caprino]

The benefit of scour from existence is the instant speed. Karn ia great and is probably worth trying in this slot.
Spyglass for two reasons;
1. The information gained is quite helpful to plan the next steps and what to name with it. If my opponent is clearly on miracles I can safely say Jace.
2. Playing around chailice of the void. Chalice is horrible enough. Also: most of the time I can start with a Cloudpost and wouldn't be able to play first turn needle anyway.

You list is interesting... Vs combo deck is hard right?

[Neo900]

combo is hard thats true but nobody plays combo. The meta is mostly built up by control decks and grindier decks. Grixis Control, 4c, maverick, dnt, miracles.
Waiting for the new artifact (forgot the name) to replace the thorns.
I would consider sneak attack or through the breach to get primeval titan with haste and get 4 lands in a turn.
I like also the idea of Lightning greeves for my Titan or other threats or a 1 off Amulet of Vigor in the summer bloom slots.
Punishing Fire is great so far, allowing me to grind the opponent because I have the mana to cast it at least twice a turn and have removal for all the creatures.

As the random number generator 203995014 suggests I would try Karn Liberated instead of Scour from Existence despite I like the instant speed a lot.
Karn Scion of Urza is also a hot candidate

[caprino]

combo is hard thats true but nobody plays combo. The meta is mostly built up by control decks and grindier decks. Grixis Control, 4c, maverick, dnt, miracles.
Waiting for the new artifact (forgot the name) to replace the thorns.
I would consider sneak attack or through the breach to get primeval titan with haste and get 4 lands in a turn.
I like also the idea of Lightning greeves for my Titan or other threats or a 1 off Amulet of Vigor in the summer bloom slots.
Punishing Fire is great so far, allowing me to grind the opponent because I have the mana to cast it at least twice a turn and have removal for all the creatures.

As the random number generator 203995014 suggests I would try Karn Liberated instead of Scour from Existence despite I like the instant speed a lot.
Karn Scion of Urza is also a hot candidate
I test next time on mtgo you list

[Neo900]

I think the red splash can be very flexible. With punishing fire and kozileks return as a control deck. With sneak attack and through the breach as combo deck. For each meta a choice. I'm interested in your results.
I'm going to test it a bit further too.

[caprino]

I think the red splash can be very flexible. With punishing fire and kozileks return as a control deck. With sneak attack and through the breach as combo deck. For each meta a choice. I'm interested in your results.
I'm going to test it a bit further too.
What do you think ug version?
I think more competitive and solid

[Neo900]

Ug is the most consistent probably.
But the people I know splash also black to have removal. In a meta were 80% of the decks have red/pyroblast it doesn't feel soo good. Despite the fact that tropical island (and all other duals) are way too expensive.
I'm going to try Alpine Moon in this red version too. It's a nice hate card against Wasteland, Dark Depths, Rishadan Port, Gaea's Cradle, Azcanta, Cloudpost and probably more I can't remember of.

Another problem is leovold who shuts down any cantrip of the deck.
Ug is viable and Show and Tell is great but from a financial and meta perspective nothing I would play at the moment.

[Lefti]

After letting Reddit shred my list to Pieces (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/8olgly/bamizwa_post_a_new_take_on_12_post/) I decided to dab on all of dem Haters and attended the Eternal Clash in Flensburg (Northern Germany (http://www.eternal-clash.com/startseite/)). We were 69 People who still believe Legacy is well and alive. I somehow made it to the Top 8, despite not giving a frying pan about winning. In fact, I just wanted to drop after the second round and visit my mother- Instead my mother now finally has a reason to be proud of me.

But without further chit chattering, here is the Decklist:


Artifacts:
4 Candelabra of Tawnos (Please continue reading!!)
4 Expedition Map
1 Mirage Mirror

Sorceries:
4 Ancient Stirrings

Instants:
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail

Creatures:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Conduit of Ruin
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Lands:
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
3 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
7 Forest
2 Thespian's Stage


Sideboard:
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Pithing Needle
3 Krosan Grip
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Ratched Bomb
1 All is Dust


In a Test Match against Miracles before the event started, i told my opponent that he lost against nonsense, which is why i changed my Decklist name from Jewrassic Park to „nonsense“ - which is objectively funny.


Round 1 vs Czech Pile/ 4 Colour Controll 2-0

Game 1: TKS shows me, that he plays diabolic edict, Hymn and Kolaghan's command main. I took hymn because I somehow dislike that card even more than the others. He edicts my Dude and answers my Conduit with an Angler on his side. Conduit is followed by another Conduit from the top, searching for Ulamog. Ulamog resolves, game.

Game 2: I play TKS removing Hymn, followed by a Conduit searching or Ulamog. He kills both of them with Toxic Deluge and lets makes me discard my hand with another Hymn. What he did not do was to shuffle my Library with the Surgical he had in Hand. Bad for him, good for „nonsense“


Round 2 vs Burn 2-1

Game 1: Price of Progress. Good Card.

Game 2: I exiled Price with TKS, then finished the game with Ulamog turn 4 or so, destroying an Ensnaring Bridge. Maybe it is just me, but i dont think, that the Birdge does much against the Deck. If it is on a roll, it wins with Ulamog anyway. Would that have been another Bolt or something, that might have been better. But yeah games against burn are pretty straight forward – I try to be fast, bringing a Glimmerpost whenever I can and he just does his burn stuff.

Game 3: He did not draw his Price, i dodged Smash to Smithereens by not playing any Artifacts and he got a pretty clunky hand with Sulfuric Vortex. Was pretty close though, i just survived on 1 Life and got lucky with him not drawing better burn spells. After the game he told me, that he could have killed me, if he had just thrown in a Goblin Guide more aggressively at some point. Lucky me.


Round 3 vs Turbo Depths 2-0

Game 1: Deckcheck Time! - Opponent used two smoky inner sleeves and got a GL :/ Go “Nonsense”!

Game 2: Quick and extremely funny game in my opinion:
He starts – Urborg go. Cloudpost go. Dark Depths go. Cloudpost go. Bayou, Sylvan Safekeeper go. Glimmerpost Mirage mirror go. Draw, salty scoop. He did not think it was funny to lose to an EDH card i guess :)


Round 4 vs Death and Taxes 2-0
(He also wrote a report, go and read it :) http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6775-Deck-Death-and-Taxes/page492)

Game 1: I don't remember everything that well. I do remember, that he tried to Waste me twice in one turn, which i countered with crop rotation and elvish spirit guide + crop rotation on the Cloudpost he tried to waste, which threw him two lands behind. At some point he had the choice to kill me one turn faster and let me do my stuff for a turn or to go one turn slower and use his Rishadan Port. He chose to go the fast route, giving me enough resources for Emrakul and Ulamog in the following turn.

Game 2: I slowed him down a bit by removing his stoneforge from the Game with my warping wail. We tried to race but he decided to kill all the fun by playing cataclysm. My Hand consisted of Maze, Tabernacle, Cloudpost, Thespian Stage, Forest and Krosan Grip as he resolved it, leaving me with one land but enough outs to get into the game and him with a Karakas and a Germ-Batterksull. He did not draw any Lands the next two or three turns, so I had enough time to build myself up again and win with Ulamog.


Round 5 vs Miracle Controll 2-1

Finally I played against Peer (https://twitter.com/peer_rich?lang=de). The only reason i built the Deck in the first place was because I knew he played Miracles and i wanted to beat him with a Deck he dislikes. That was my only goal for that day.

Game 1: I keep a greedy hand with two forests, no Post and too many big/ colorless Spells because i think i have enough time, but 3rd turn Mentor is too fast.

Game 2: I do not remember that game, somehow i won. I think he cantripped a lot but eventually did not find anything, which was ok with me.

Game 3: I put Lands into play while he brainstormed for a way to beat me fast. At some point of the game he just had a crazy amount of permanents and was able to bring me down to 5 life. In the final turn he miscounted though, thought i didnt have enough mana to activate my Eye of Ugin. So in response to his Unexpectadly Absent with which he wanted to put Candelabra on Top I activated Eye for an Emrakul Not only that but on the following turn I put my Karakas from hand into play and went on playing the rest of the game without him.

So the plan worked, Peer lost to “nonsense”, my goal was reached. I could have dropped here, but my friends told me, that if I ID twice, i get to the top 8 so .. yeah i did that.
To this point, I still did not really believe in my Deck, because I just went „Landdrop go“ for the most part, which feels weird, if your primary Deck is Elves.


Round 6 (vs Miracle Controll) ID

He did not want to play against me and we ID'd.

Round 7 (vs Czech Pile) ID

I had really good Pizza for an even better price. If that's not worth attending the Eternal Clash in Flensburg (http://www.eternal-clash.com/startseite/) I don't know what is

(This was unpaid advertisement)


Top 8

Quarterfinal vs Miracle Controll 2-0 („again“)

Game 1: Turns out, the Dude that did not want to play against me played 2 main Deck Back to basics, which would have sucked, if it had not been for Candelabra. But I think it made a huge impact, that he mulled to 5 and only drew nothing but lands though.

Game 2: Lands drops, Expedition Map and Ancient Stirrings help me set up my Board. He puts away Emrakul with a clique twice. The second Time I got so angry, i pulled 23 Mana to my Manapool, got Emrakul with Eye of Ugin back and cast it anyway... nobody steals my Emrakul twice.


Semifinal vs Death and Taxes (Same as in Game 4) 2-0
(He also wrote a report, go and read it :) http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6775-Deck-Death-and-Taxes/page492)

Game 1: Yeah, I guess Thalia and Mother of Runes don't do much against big colorless creatures. I went lucky on his draw and just won through having the bigger creatures (Conduit and TKS).

Game 2: Somehow I managed to win through Cataclysm again by generating life with Glimmerpost and then casting Ulamog for 9 + Spirit Guide :'D


Final vs Amin (Turbo Depths) 0-2:
(He also wrote a report, go and read it :) https://www.mtg-forum.de/topic/154303-eternal-clash-flensburg-23062018/?p=1455312)

Game 1: I had two Cloudposts and a Thespian stage, so i was prepared for Depths. But then my brain decided to not work properly anymore and I used the stage to copy a Cloudpost for no good reason. Response Crop killed me.

Game 2: I copied his Depths activation second turn with Thespian's stage by exiling a Spirit Guide I just topdecked. He copies one of my forests with another Thespians stage and killed me by getting a Serji Steppe with crop rotation.

Ok, second Place with “nonsense” is fine I guess.


Final Words to the Performance of the Deck:
I think there was a lot of luck and misplays involved, but maybe the Deck is worth a further inspection. But maybe it just was a good metacall, because Miracles and Czech Pile do not want to play against 12 Post


Final thoughts on the List:
I did not playtest enough to say that much about it, except a few things:
- Candelabra is literally (!!) Sol ring. I always wanted one in my Hand. To play four of them just felt pretty good.
- The Mirror can be anything! A 20/20 Token or another Cloudpost your Mana goes into, when your opponent tries to hurt your feelings with Rishidan Port.
- 4 Warping Wail also felt pretty right, it hurts Death and Taxes and... just is a good card in general
- Ancient Stirrings is the new Dig Through time- no doubt. (https://www.cardmarket.com/de/Magic/Insight/Articles/Why-Ancient-Stirrings-Is-So-Powerful)!
- Although Maze of Ith did not do anything, while playtesting against my playgroup it felt pretty strong, especially when you copy them and have Candelabra against Decks like Maverick
- I tried to focus more on consistency, thats why i ended up with so many Tutor-like cards. And i have to say, that it worked. I pretty consistently drew the stuff i needed, or found it through Eye, Stirrings, Map or Crop Rotation.


Final final Words of this Post:
It was a great day, all my opponents were super chill people and I would hug all of them in their sleep, if that would not be so weird. The event is definitely worth attending and the organization that goes into it is always amazing to me. Give them a like on Facebook or something (https://www.facebook.com/EternalClash/)!

[Neo900]

Congrats. I'm aware of the tournament in Flensburg. I would come too but from Ruhrgebiet it's to far^^

4 Candelabra seems pretty much.
Do you feel the Elvish Spirit Guides were important?

Aren't you afraid of Wasteland in the first game? That would make space in the Sideboard.
Conduit of Ruin is interesting. 5/5 is a huge body but I don't think its necessary. you have only 2 targets for conduit and eye of ugin is probably enough tutor and a better one.

Is there a reason that you don't play any Fetchlands?

I like Warping Wail. It's so felxible but it hits not all creatures. Is it enough as removal against more aggressive decks?

What about Primeval Titan? A 6/6 Trample ramp dude. He is the biggest reason for the green splash (in my opinion).

I like your Sideboard. 3 Needle are necessary against Wasteland mostly but I would try to fit 1-2 in the Main and make space for other cards. More massremoval like All is Dust or an Ugin are nice additions.

[Lefti]

Congrats. I'm aware of the tournament in Flensburg. I would come too but from Ruhrgebiet it's to far^^

4 Candelabra seems pretty much.

I wish i could play even more :D 4 seems like the right amount to always have one and I really never had a Problem seeing a second one. It is basically a better Sol ring with two Cloudpost in play and even without, it can make more Eldrazi Mana with Temple.


Do you feel the Elvish Spirit Guides were important?

Yep, it made so many games. Instant Crop without a Forest is pretty strong, because your opponent thinks you can't do anything and having extra mana to cast Conduit or TKS is pretty neat too. I try to use them pretty aggressively, as when the Deck works, you don't need them that often. First turn remove ESG, play Stirrings and then have a Cloudpost as your Landdrop is pretty good. Not having to waste a turn on dropping a Forest made so many games for me. Letting the opponent think you don't have enough mana with it also is a thing that happened. I think ESG is one of the core cards of that build and makes the deck play somewhat differently.






Aren't you afraid of Wasteland in the first game? That would make space in the Sideboard.

Tempo is a bigger Problem than Wastelands i think. Pithing Needle costs time and resources to prevent something that costs your opponent time too. If Death and Taxes is setting itself behind because of Wastelands in the first turns, that is as problematic for him as it is for me in most cases. So before having dead Needles in my Hand against a Czech Pile, which tries to put out creatures as fast as possible against me, I'd rather move them to the sideboard.


Conduit of Ruin is interesting. 5/5 is a huge body but I don't think its necessary. you have only 2 targets for conduit and eye of ugin is probably enough tutor and a better one.

Yep, the body isn't what makes the cut, the 2 mana are. It buys you time, against Decks with smaller creatures and also makes Ulamog so much more castable. Eye of Ugin is always a good option, but it also costs me a turn to put it onto the battlefield, when i could have a Cloudpost laying there instead. The fact that it puts the card on top sometimes is annoying though, but it protects from discard and with shuffle effects it makes for some good bluffs.


Is there a reason that you don't play any Fetchlands?

Reddit told me to :D? Mostly fear of stifle, Blood Moon and making me shuffle away my on the top Ulamog with Wasteland on fetch. I am probably underestimating the power of deckthinning.


I like Warping Wail. It's so felxible but it hits not all creatures. Is it enough as removal against more aggressive decks?

Hm what more aggressive Decks? DNT does not like it, the ability to bolt the bird is pretty good and in the worst cases, it produces a token to block and buy time, or to sacrifice into Ulamog or something. It gets rid of fast drops and discard. Worst thing it did for me was countering some cantrips against Miracles and even that did not feel terrible. The Deck is all about time management. Opponents who can't kill us fast enough, will lose.

I think I am repeating myself here but I want to say again, that I don't think you can disrupt the Deck very well, unless you have first turn Waste on Cloudpost and then get it removed by surgical Extraction. It is not like the Decks that have a really hard time rebuilding after their Combo was disrupted. Opponents are oftentimes hyperfocused on disruption, while I think they would do better just building up Tempo. A lot of lists i tried will lose after enough wasteland action, but due to the big amount of tutors and candles, it did never feel like Wasteland was that much of a threat if not in conjunction with a beater. After all, Glimmerpost or Swords also grant you some extra turns.


What about Primeval Titan? A 6/6 Trample ramp dude. He is the biggest reason for the green splash (in my opinion).

Ugh, I hate wasting landdrops on forests. Most of the time i had one forest in play and tried to crop it as fast as possible. It does not profit from Eldrazi Temple either. I tried it in my list, but it would take pretty big changes to play this guy. Might be my list isn't as good as the best primeval builds, but it works for me so far and i don't miss Primetime :D


I like your Sideboard. 3 Needle are necessary against Wasteland mostly but I would try to fit 1-2 in the Main and make space for other cards. More massremoval like All is Dust or an Ugin are nice additions.

I would like to have more stuff against decks with smaller creatures like Elves and Grixis, maybe a spatial contortion, but i think 1-2 more Ratched bombs would be pretty nice. Maybe i got lucky in all of my testing, but as stated before, Needle feels unnecessary in the main.

[caw_86]

DRS and PROBE BANNED, HURRAY

[MechTactical]

DRS and PROBE BANNED, HURRAY

Banzai! Still no Top though…
So what does this mean for us? Could we potentially be viable again?
I managed to squeeze in a couple of games yesterday with the stock Rock’s Wish build (minor changes). My matchups were sneak n show and double RUG (narrow loss to sneak, won both RUG matchups). I don't particularly appreciate seeing stifle as much as any post player; despite this, it was so good to play against RUG again. The card is much less problematic than probe+cabal or DRS into hymn into delver+waste into whatever… The matchup feels much better than grixis.
Wish got better without therapy. What else? We could try grapple again. Chasm got better? Tabernacle probably got better? Probably crop got better and is worth 4x slot in the main (expecting more reanimator and dredge?). Snappy gets better, although he wasn’t a staple in our deck, I like him in U oriented builds. Stuff like Ramunap/Rallier got a lot better for any GSZ/Maveric flavored builds. If GY strategies get more gas, I guess that relic is still a valid MD choice, despite it was there mainly as a DRS hoser? I guess that needle is a four off in the new waste/rishadan meta? Do we really go overboard and run extra spyglasses alongside needles?? What happens to decay, moon, and chalice in this new environment? Do we see a rise of miracles again? That would be a boon for us. Which cards do we use to replace top in the new meta: mirri, wish, ponder, grapple, library, …? Let’s get crackin’ fellas!

[caw_86]

Hopefully miracles drops back to basica from its list

[k_omega]

I played a few games on XMage over the past few days with a C/g list to see what people were trying in the post-DRS/probe world. I played against: Dredge (easy win), U/R control (easy win), Infect (distant loss), Storm (close loss), D&T (easy win), RUG Delver (distant loss), and Lands (close loss). None of these outcomes surprise me, but I think the overall metagame is now worse for the C/g builds than before for several reasons:


Nimble Mongoose and Vines of Vastwood are both strong against Maze of Ith which is the main form of creature interaction. RUG also has excellent options for artifact removal and C/g leans heavily on its artifacts. It would also be bad if Goblins sees more play, since they have artifact removal and can easily go wide around Mazes.
C/g has been the worst 12 Post variant against Lands in my experience and I expect people who put down Lands to return to it.
Storm seems to have replaced Probes with Thoughtseizes which is bad since the main interaction (spheres) has to sit in hand for a turn or two before being deployed, assuming you keep an opening hand based on having a sphere in it.


It has been nice not to die to random DRS activations. Moment's Peace gets much better now that DRS won't exile it and it combats some of the decks that are likely to become popular. Ideally I would play a G/W Titan build with Swords to Plowshares in the maindeck and Rest in Peace + Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard, but I think a list like that would need a Top-like effect to function. Maybe Mirri's Guile and Sylvan Library can fill that role, though I am skeptical of Library in a Leovold world. A 3-1 split seems reasonable.

Elvish Rejuvenator (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=447316) from the new core set could have potential. I tested two of them in the flex slots of C/g and it helps to speed through the midgame. If you wanted to play three I think you would need an 8th Forest so that you can avoid using Maps for Forests.

[MechTactical]

I played a few games on XMage over the past few days with a C/g list to see what people were trying in the post-DRS/probe world. I played against: Dredge (easy win), U/R control (easy win), Infect (distant loss), Storm (close loss), D&T (easy win), RUG Delver (distant loss), and Lands (close loss). None of these outcomes surprise me, but I think the overall metagame is now worse for the C/g builds than before for several reasons:


Nimble Mongoose and Vines of Vastwood are both strong against Maze of Ith which is the main form of creature interaction. RUG also has excellent options for artifact removal and C/g leans heavily on its artifacts. It would also be bad if Goblins sees more play, since they have artifact removal and can easily go wide around Mazes.
C/g has been the worst 12 Post variant against Lands in my experience and I expect people who put down Lands to return to it.
Storm seems to have replaced Probes with Thoughtseizes which is bad since the main interaction (spheres) has to sit in hand for a turn or two before being deployed, assuming you keep an opening hand based on having a sphere in it.


It has been nice not to die to random DRS activations. Moment's Peace gets much better now that DRS won't exile it and it combats some of the decks that are likely to become popular. Ideally I would play a G/W Titan build with Swords to Plowshares in the maindeck and Rest in Peace + Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard, but I think a list like that would need a Top-like effect to function. Maybe Mirri's Guile and Sylvan Library can fill that role, though I am skeptical of Library in a Leovold world. A 3-1 split seems reasonable.

Elvish Rejuvenator (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=447316) from the new core set could have potential. I tested two of them in the flex slots of C/g and it helps to speed through the midgame. If you wanted to play three I think you would need an 8th Forest so that you can avoid using Maps for Forests.

GW wise I’m brewing with GSZ package + renegade + wayfarer ATM. I keep getting these explosive starts via wayfarer. I’m even considering adding a copy of wasteland… I can’t speak whether such a built could ever be competitive, but it’s fun as hell. Hehe if nothing else it’s at least fun to play legacy again not having to play against endless DRS hordes.
I’m not sold on Rejuvenator he feels clunky at 3, maybe if he was at one CMC. :really:

[Cyborg]

Are we back boys?
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-07-22_legacy_Philadelphia_PA_US/1/
3 big colorless eldrazi and 1 ug list. Seems good.

[Monkey_Island]

Hi guys,

Summertime makes playtesting not so easy (gotta enjoy the sun and those pesky friends keeping you away from Magic ! Damn !). Here is what I want to test next time I can:

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva

1 Archon of Valor's Reach
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista

4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Ponder
4 Repeal
4 Show And Tell

3 Candelabra Of Tawnos
1 Flex Slot

SB:
3 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Krosan Grip
1 Archon of Valor's Reach
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Surgical Extraction

Has anybody tried Archon of Valor's Reach ? Also with DRS out of the picture, Riftstone Portal can be a solid option (provided enough ways to put it in the graveyard) to have access to the Archon and sideboard cards...

Any thoughts ?

[mkalevv]

Does anyone play standstill?

I was running a U/G list with some Repeals and Perilous Voyage to stall and then cast a Standstill until I draw enough cards/drop enough lands to cast a big boy or a show and tell to end it. But I don't think its really gaining me anything. If the opponent gets ahead on board by even 1 creature, standstill is pointless...

Now that DRS is gone, I'm thinking I run 2 Moment's Peace in the main and 2 in the board as my stalling component.

Thoughts?

[walked]

Anyone spent significant time on the UG lists that seen to have been popping up lately? It seems pretty much right up my alley but I want to get someone to comer in who's played them a bit before I invest on mtgo

[mkalevv]

There was a U/G list that took 10th at the SCG Classic in Dallas this past weekend. Glad to see it.

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123201

[MechTactical]

Anyone spent significant time on the UG lists that seen to have been popping up lately? It seems pretty much right up my alley but I want to get someone to comer in who's played them a bit before I invest on mtgo

I'll repost this here b/c no one seems keen on giving any insight into the new "core." based on the ug ballista list by Chris Rowland.

So the core is 4x ballista 4x repeal; that there is our new "engine." instead of top, we got direct damage + draw. Not only does repeal save yo ballista from removal it resets it and draws a card for U. This makes an early ballista more reliable b/c u can reset it later (remember to deal damage if it has more than one counter). Don't hesitate to trade an early ballista for an unflipped delver. Of course, you board out this engine against most combo decks but its f amazing against anything fair... the list below is just an experiment testing this engine in "MUC." it should have at least 2-3 candles but I run one cuz I own only one... the list has a lot of flex/test cards and needs more chalice hate. sry about the xmage formatting

1 [ATQ:43] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [ZEN:220] Misty Rainforest
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
1 [MM3:50] Snapcaster Mage
1 [ZEN:67] Spell Pierce
4 [FNMP:120] Cloudpost
1 [LEG:303] Karakas
1 [FRF:1] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [TSP:281] Vesuva
1 [RTR:35] Cyclonic Rift
2 [ALA:218] Relic of Progenitus
4 [AER:181] Walking Ballista
4 [GPT:32] Repeal
1 [KTK:239] Polluted Delta
1 [ROE:4] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [WWK:136] Eye of Ugin
1 [C16:102] Trinket Mage
1 [EMN:6] Emrakul, the Promised End
1 [OGW:4] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 [MPS:44] Pithing Needle
1 [MM2:67] Vendilion Clique
6 [ZEN:234] Island
4 [SOM:227] Glimmerpost
1 [BFZ:15] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M10:68] Ponder
4 [MM2:213] Expedition Map
1 [MM2:1] All Is Dust

SB: 4 [ALL:28] Force of Will
SB: 1 [MPS:44] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [NPH:74] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [CMD:267] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [LEB:50] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [WWK:31] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 [THS:65] Swan Song


P.s. Remeber you can sac ballista in response to bridge or play it for 0 into a chancellor making way for other spells. It's also excellent against those pesky walkers.

[Monkey_Island]

I'll repost this here b/c no one seems keen on giving any insight into the new "core." based on the ug ballista list by Chris Rowland.

So the core is 4x ballista 4x repeal; that there is our new "engine." instead of top, we got direct damage + draw. Not only does repeal save yo ballista from removal it resets it and draws a card for U. This makes an early ballista more reliable b/c u can reset it later (remember to deal damage if it has more than one counter). Don't hesitate to trade an early ballista for an unflipped delver. Of course, you board out this engine against most combo decks but its f amazing against anything fair... the list below is just an experiment testing this engine in "MUC." it should have at least 2-3 candles but I run one cuz I own only one... the list has a lot of flex/test cards and needs more chalice hate. sry about the xmage formatting

1 [ATQ:43] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [ZEN:220] Misty Rainforest
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
1 [MM3:50] Snapcaster Mage
1 [ZEN:67] Spell Pierce
4 [FNMP:120] Cloudpost
1 [LEG:303] Karakas
1 [FRF:1] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [TSP:281] Vesuva
1 [RTR:35] Cyclonic Rift
2 [ALA:218] Relic of Progenitus
4 [AER:181] Walking Ballista
4 [GPT:32] Repeal
1 [KTK:239] Polluted Delta
1 [ROE:4] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [WWK:136] Eye of Ugin
1 [C16:102] Trinket Mage
1 [EMN:6] Emrakul, the Promised End
1 [OGW:4] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 [MPS:44] Pithing Needle
1 [MM2:67] Vendilion Clique
6 [ZEN:234] Island
4 [SOM:227] Glimmerpost
1 [BFZ:15] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M10:68] Ponder
4 [MM2:213] Expedition Map
1 [MM2:1] All Is Dust

SB: 4 [ALL:28] Force of Will
SB: 1 [MPS:44] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [NPH:74] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [CMD:267] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [LEB:50] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [WWK:31] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 [THS:65] Swan Song


P.s. Remeber you can sac ballista in response to bridge or play it for 0 into a chancellor making way for other spells. It's also excellent against those pesky walkers.

Very interesting list. I have been willing to go mono U for a while but never settled on a list that I liked. In my attempts however I always liked Stifle, did you have a chance to test it ?

[MechTactical]

Very interesting list. I have been willing to go mono U for a while but never settled on a list that I liked. In my attempts however I always liked Stifle, did you have a chance to test it ?

The problem, as always with post, is the lack of space for all the cards one would want in the 75. I’m mainly worried about needle – relic. Relic is the “only” MB GY hate available in mono U, and needle is well just great in any post. I’ve added two caverns (don’t know why I didn’t include at least one copy earlier). I didn’t try stifle, but I tried spell pierce and I think both of those don’t fit well in post. You want to drop cloud posts and play your cantrips, bounce spells, and artifacts which doesn’t leave much room to keep U mana open for stifle/pierce and the likes. It’s also very common that you have to tap out early to play your maps, candles, and sh**, which means you don’t have mana open to use yo disruption in the early phases when it matters most. Not to mention the space restrictions (instead I’d run more relics, needles, and stuff before adding stifle). Currently, I’ve done away with some of the test cards and am running a more streamlined build with three candles (although I couldn’t play this list as I own only one) 2x cyclonic right and 2x wipe away. The list may be heavy on bounce spells, but I had a lousy record against chalice and wanted to have at least 4x answers for it MB. Apart from EE, I don’t know what else could be included in mono U as chalice hate? I’ve also considered blink of an eye and perilous voyage (card draw/card selection), but somehow I always miss rift if I don’t have at least two copies MB in monoU. Rift is just such a fantastic card that can answer things that other sh** can’t (TNN and the likes) a mini all is dust. Bouncing stuff feels right in monoU; one only needs to stall the game long enough for the inevitable win. Repealing a flipped delver is as good as it used to be. Any card suggestions are much appreciated, what else could play well in monoU?

[cdnza]

So I finally picked up Candelabras recently and someone said to me last night "now you can play that dumb cloudpost deck!" so I thought I'd come here and see how things were going. I know this is quite a niche archetype - is anyone actively playing it right now and would consider sharing some of their experiences in the post-ban metagame?

[Drixx]

So I finally picked up Candelabras recently and someone said to me last night "now you can play that dumb cloudpost deck!" so I thought I'd come here and see how things were going. I know this is quite a niche archetype - is anyone actively playing it right now and would consider sharing some of their experiences in the post-ban metagame?

I'm now testing couple of dekcs and still my main flagship would be this cloudpost deck which seems to me pretty solid right now just last week finished 3:1 and 4:0 on local events last matchups was zoo 2:0,eldrazi2:1,food chain 2:0,and mentor miracle 2:0 .

Most tough matchups are still infect decks,aluren,blood moon planeswalkers and aggro loam but happy they don't appear so often on my tournaments . i'm very satisfied with walking ballista one of the best card in the moment :)) .maybe i'll cut one relic for another beb.

here is my current list

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Primeval Titan
1x Walking Ballista

4x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
3x Flusterstorm
1x Impulse
2x Trickbind

3x Ponder
3x Show and Tell

2x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle

1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Side:
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Carpet of Flowers
1x Crop Rotation
3x Krosan Grip
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Walking Ballista

[Drixx]

and wishing you guys good luck for Gp Richmond ;)

[k_omega]

What are everyone's opinions on Broken Bond? It seems like it would be excellent against Stompy decks but worse than Krosan Grip against decks with counterspells. On the other hand, the blue decks are playing Back to Basics which can be fought with Candelabra instead of requiring a Naturalize effect so maybe Grips are less necessary now. Normally I play 3 Grips in the sideboard and I'd like to do a 3-1 split but 4 slots for that effect is a lot. I'm looking for confirmation that Broken Bond is as good as I think it is, and what kind of splits people have had success with.

For reference, I'm using a C/g build and the relevant decks in my meta are Miracles/Grixis/Stoneblade, Eldrazi, Aggro Loam, and Red Stompy in roughly a 5-2-1-1 ratio.

[MechTactical]

What are everyone's opinions on Broken Bond? It seems like it would be excellent against Stompy decks but worse than Krosan Grip against decks with counterspells. On the other hand, the blue decks are playing Back to Basics which can be fought with Candelabra instead of requiring a Naturalize effect so maybe Grips are less necessary now. Normally I play 3 Grips in the sideboard and I'd like to do a 3-1 split but 4 slots for that effect is a lot. I'm looking for confirmation that Broken Bond is as good as I think it is, and what kind of splits people have had success with.

For reference, I'm using a C/g build and the relevant decks in my meta are Miracles/Grixis/Stoneblade, Eldrazi, Aggro Loam, and Red Stompy in roughly a 5-2-1-1 ratio.

Brah, it’s not worth the effort. Soon you’ll realize that sorcery speed is a big issue. Furthermore, split second is still a key factor against sneak/omni and other combo. You can even get rid of opponents ballista and not take damage for example. Against b2b splitsecond is imperative b/c of counterspells. I tried bond but cut them. It’s also situational you have to have a land in hand. If y’all wanna play exploreation play k wayfarer...

[k_omega]

Brah, it’s not worth the effort. Soon you’ll realize that sorcery speed is a big issue. Furthermore, split second is still a key factor against sneak/omni and other combo. You can even get rid of opponents ballista and not take damage for example. Against b2b splitsecond is imperative b/c of counterspells. I tried bond but cut them. It’s also situational you have to have a land in hand. If y’all wanna play exploreation play k wayfarer...

You're missing the point. I'm planning to keep Krosan Grips for blue decks and basically only considering Broken Bond for decks that play early Chalices or Blood Moons. In those situations the sorcery speed is mostly irrelevant but costing one less mana is valuable, and the additional land drop is huge. C/g is almost half land anyway and the early turns are when you're most likely to have an extra land in hand. This is why I think it's good, and I'm asking if people who have played the card have liked it in these matchups.

[Monkey_Island]

So last Legacy Monthly I 3-1 with this:

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Walking Ballista
1 Platinum Emperion

4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Ponder
4 Repeal
4 Show And Tell

3 Candelabra Of Tawnos


SB:
4 Flusterstorm
2 Echoing Truth
3 Krosan Grip
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Surgical Extraction


Random thoughts:
- I liked 26 lands with 23 mana sources. Really impressed with Thespian's Stage at dodging unbasic hate plus acting as extra ramp and occasionally "saving" a utility land. Very solid card overall.
- Show and Tell -> Primeval Titan is a strong play in Leagcy at the moment.
- Multiple Back to Basics main deck out of Miracles deck suck. This is not an easy match-up as it used to be.
- I played against Steel Stompy and felt surprisingly strong against them.
- Would definitely run this list again but with replacing Platinum Emperion for Venser, Shaper Savant.

[nimkee]

I see someone placed 6th with Cg at a recent classic.

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123970

I think I know who that is but am not 100%. Any chance of getting a quick report or even a run down of the matches you faced?

Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk

[k_omega]

I see someone placed 6th with Cg at a recent classic.

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123970

I think I know who that is but am not 100%. Any chance of getting a quick report or even a run down of the matches you faced?


Of course. I played in Day 1 of the Open too so I'll post a report for that event later. In the Classic I faced:

Matchups:
0-2 vs. Storm
2-0 vs. Grixis Control
2-0 vs. Burn
2-0 vs. Lands
2-0 vs. D&T
2-0 vs. D&T again
2-1 vs. U/W Delver-Blade
0-2 vs. U/B Death's Shadow (top 8)

The card choices are mostly typical for C/g builds with three exceptions:


New Kozilek over Old Kozilek. Old Kozilek dies too easily to StP and does not always draw enough cards. Often I have no cards in hand and new Kozilek is a better topdeck in that situation. New Kozilek is also uniquely helpful against Burn (discard Wail to counter Price) and with all the deck's 1-drops usually protects itself against StP. I've played the new version for a few months now and I don't think I've ever lost a game after drawing 7 with it.
1 From Beyond. With 4 Wails there is one flex slot left, and I wanted a card that could act as a removal spell, threaten planeswalkers, and be another win condition when topdecking. I went 5-4 in Day 1 of the Open on Saturday with Walking Ballista in this slot and was not impressed. Kolaghan's Command and StP deal with Ballista too efficiently and pinging the opponent in response is virtually never relevant since when you win you do not care about their life total. Also, in order to have a relevant number of counters Ballista usually has to be cast for 6 or 8 mana which is not always possible. From Beyond provides a stream of chump blockers (thereby acting like a removal spell), the Scions can attack planeswalkers, and obviously you can sacrifice it to search for an Eldrazi. Also relevant is that From Beyond tutors for All is Dust and is an additional card type for new Emrakul that even puts itself in the graveyard. From Beyond was responsible for winning a game against Grixis Control and another against D&T.
1 sideboard Thought-Knot Seer. This is for snagging counterspells against control and disrupting combo. In particular, removing a Price of Progress while turtling behind Glacial Chasm and removing Emrakuls after a Show and Tell into Omniscience.


Match Reports:
Round 1: (Storm)
Game 1: I mulligan to 5 with multiple Cloudposts and an old Emrakul. He mulligans to 6 and takes some time to set up, but I draw green cards with no Forests.

-3 Pithing Needle, -2 Ugin, -3 Maze, -1 From Beyond, -1 Ulamog, -1 All is Dust
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +2 Sphere, +2 Trinisphere, +1 TKS, +3 Surgical, +1 Depths

Game 2: I mulligan to 6 and keep 2 Forest, Trinishere, Crop Rotation, Surgical, Depths. I don't find a third mana source before he Duresses the Trinisphere, but I eventually draw all three Surgicals. I extract some cantrips to cut off threshold on some Cabal Rituals, but as a result he gets to hard-cast Tendrils putting me to 2 with a second Tendrils in hand. He goes for it but I have Crop Rotation for Glimmerpost to go to 1. Unfortunately I topdeck nothing useful while he gets Infernal Tutor for Ad Nauseam and combos off.

Round 2: (Grixis Control)
Game 1: I get Hymned down to zero cards in hand, but he does not find Force of Will for my topdecked Ugin which proceeds to take over the game. Tabernacle eats two Gurmag Anglers.

-1 Needle, +1 Spyglass
I make this switch against control because the peek effect on Spyglass makes it more likely to bait a counterspell, and the information can be valuable.

Game 2: He has no early discard and just plays Baleful Strixes into Jace, but does not counter From Beyond. He opts not to attack with the Strixes in order to protect Jace, and an Ugin exiles his board before dying to Bolt. He has another Jace but no blockers so he fateseals me so the Jace won't die to Eldrazi Scions. Scions peck Jace down to 3 and two of them pay for a Spell Pierce so that a second Ugin resolves and bolts away the Jace. Kozilek cleans up.

Round 3: (Burn)
Game 1: I am on the draw, mulligan to 6, and keep a Cloudpost on top, which Goblin Guide puts in my hand. Fortunately I have two Candelabras so after turtling with Glacial Chasm + Thespian's Stage I have the mana to cast Ugin to clear his board and Kozilek to provide action and protection. I have a Chasm-Stage which I turn into a Cloudpost so that I can attack him. In combat he attempts to Searing Blaze Kozilek for the win but I pitch a Warping Wail to counter it.

-1 Bog, -1 Maze, -1 Tabernacle, -3 Needle, -1 From Beyond, -1 Wail
+2 Trinisphere, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Thought-Knot Seer, +1 Dark Depths, +1 Sphere of Resistance
Sphere of Resistance is not great against Burn, but it costs 2 so Kozilek can counter Price with it.

Game 2: He has a slow hand (due to bringing in Ensnaring Bridge) so I manage to stabilize at 12 life with a TKS removing a Fireblast. I Map for Eye of Ugin which is my 5th nonbasic, so he Prices me on the end of my turn. In response I search for Kozilek, then Rotate the Eye into a Chasm and turtle for a couple of turns. Kozilek draws me into Ulamog + Karakas so I go after his lands and he scoops.

Round 4: (Lands)
Game 1: This is a name-recognized SCG player and I know what he is likely to be playing. He plays a Forest and passes, I do the same. He plays a Stage, I do the same. He Wastelands the Stage and I let it happen, then I Rotate for Bog in response to Loam on Wasteland. He has a second Wasteland but decides to copy his own Forest rather than destroy the Bog in response to my Pithing Needle, which names Wasteland. This mistake cost him the game, as I was eventually able to Vesuva-Bog away his Loam, Depths, and singleton Ghost Quarter while gaining enough life to survive Marit Lage. He tries to Punishing-Fire me but I have an Ugin ticking up and a Kozilek to draw more action, while all he has to stop me are Ports. Somehow I never find a Candelabra but it doesn't matter as he concedes the match in order (so I was told) to go to a football game.

Round 5: (D&T)
Game 1: I am always happy to see a T1 Mother of Runes. I get multiple Mazes and a Candelabra to hold off his creatures while I wait to draw a Forest to cast Crop Rotation for Eye of Ugin and the win. For some reason he gets Flickerwisps with Recruiter instead of Phyrexian Revoker to shut off Candelabras. I eventually draw New Emrakul to eat away at his board and he decides to go to the next game.

-1 Bog, -1 From Beyond, +1 Spyglass, +1 Grip

Game 2: He has multiple Ports which seriously constrain my mana, but he has little pressure. Eventually he assembles enough creatures that I Rotate a Maze into a Tabernacle to tie up his Ports, which allows me to clean up with All is Dust and then an Ugin to take out the leftover Revoker.

Round 6: (D&T)
Game 1: He has Wasteland, Port, and Vial but no serious threat. He Flickerwisps out my Needle in order to Wasteland a Cloudpost which keeps me off of threats for several turns, in which Maze + Candelabra works overtime. I have a Tabernacle in play and cast From Beyond, which I then sacrifice to get new Emrakul and make him not pay for his creatures, then put a Revoker on Vial. The game is not completely decided, but he scoops anyway.

-1 Bog, -1 From Beyond, +1 Spyglass, +1 Grip

Game 2: I have no Needle and he has a curve of creatures. I bait him into Wastelanding a Maze so that I can Rotate it into a Cloudpost and start ramping, and copy it with a Stage before it gets Wastelanded. I Vesuva the Cloudpost-Stage and then he Surgicals my Cloudposts, but I have a Candelabra so all is well. I Eye for Ulamog to exile his Ports, and he knows from the Surgical that I also have New Emrakul so he scoops.

Round 7: (U/W Delver-Blade)
Game 1: I am on the draw and mulligan to 5 whereas he blind-flips a T1 Delver and has 3 Wastelands. Having no Needles, I lose.

-1 From Beyond, -1 Wail, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Grip
I expect that he has Back to Basics and I know he has TNN, so I bring Grip for the former and Bomb for both.

Game 2: I am light on mana but Wail away his T1 Delver, after which he has little pressure. He does have a Back to Basics which leaves me with two Forests as mana sources, and a Wasteland for my one Cloudpost. I have Ratchet Bomb in hand but wait to cast it until I have a third mana in order to hold up Crop Rotation for the Wasteland, but after Vendilion Clique arrives I decide to take the risk and tap out for Bomb. For some reason he Wastelands my Tabernacle instead of the Cloudpost, and over three turns I tick up the Bomb and get two more Cloudposts. Bomb takes out the clique and the Back to Basics, allowing me to cast New Emrakul to make him waste his threats.

-1 Wail, +1 Grip
Having now seen Back to Basics I want some more action and Warping Wail is worse on the draw when its main target is Delver.

Game 3: I resolve a T1 Needle and have Maze to hold off his Delver. He lands a Jace and starts fatesealing, but I have an Ugin in hand so when he Ponders with two cards in hand I Rotate a Forest in response which he (correctly) Forces pitching the other card. As a result he can't counter the Ugin which cleans up his board, then Kozilek finishes the job (protecting himself from a StP and a Council's Judgment).

Quarterfinals: (U/B Shadow)
Game 1: I am the fifth seed so I'm on the draw. He has a bunch of cantrips and two Wastelands for Cloudposts, but two Mazes hold off his two creatures. He has counterspells for the All is Dust and the Ugin, so the third threat is too much for the Mazes.

-2 Wail, +1 Spyglass, +1 Dark Depths

Game 2: I put T1 Needle on Wasteland, then attempt to Wail away his 1/1 Death's Shadow but he protects it with Daze. I again get two Mazes to hold off two Delvers, but he cantrips away all his other cards for an additional two Shadows and an Angler. I Map for Chasm but find no action in time.

Thoughts:

From Beyond is very good in its role.
Storm seems to be less common than before, and Sphere of Resistance is in the sideboard for basically that matchup and Food Chain. I plan to replace one Sphere with a third Trinisphere and use the new sideboard slot for something that's good against Death's Shadow.
3 Warping Wails might be OK.

[nimkee]

Thanks for the report, its a great / clean write up. Oddly enough, I had a foil From Beyond in my 12 post box but never tried it out. I am looking forward to sleeving it up myself.

I'm not sure what other people's metas are but over here there's a down-tick in storm, though lands and and loam pox (don't ask...) is seeing more play. A few people are on Grixis Control. There is also some U/W stoneblade, along with a couple of miracle players. Everything else is mostly singletons. The top two players that have been winning quite a bit are on U/W delver (splashing red) and U/B Shadow.

What sort of advice do you have on the UB Shadow matchup? How important was the 3rd maze for you?



Of course. I played in Day 1 of the Open too so I'll post a report for that event later. In the Classic I faced:

Matchups:
0-2 vs. Storm
2-0 vs. Grixis Control
2-0 vs. Burn
2-0 vs. Lands
2-0 vs. D&T
2-0 vs. D&T again
2-1 vs. U/W Delver-Blade
0-2 vs. U/B Death's Shadow (top 8)

The card choices are mostly typical for C/g builds with three exceptions:


New Kozilek over Old Kozilek. Old Kozilek dies too easily to StP and does not always draw enough cards. Often I have no cards in hand and new Kozilek is a better topdeck in that situation. New Kozilek is also uniquely helpful against Burn (discard Wail to counter Price) and with all the deck's 1-drops usually protects itself against StP. I've played the new version for a few months now and I don't think I've ever lost a game after drawing 7 with it.
1 From Beyond. With 4 Wails there is one flex slot left, and I wanted a card that could act as a removal spell, threaten planeswalkers, and be another win condition when topdecking. I went 5-4 in Day 1 of the Open on Saturday with Walking Ballista in this slot and was not impressed. Kolaghan's Command and StP deal with Ballista too efficiently and pinging the opponent in response is virtually never relevant since when you win you do not care about their life total. Also, in order to have a relevant number of counters Ballista usually has to be cast for 6 or 8 mana which is not always possible. From Beyond provides a stream of chump blockers (thereby acting like a removal spell), the Scions can attack planeswalkers, and obviously you can sacrifice it to search for an Eldrazi. Also relevant is that From Beyond tutors for All is Dust and is an additional card type for new Emrakul that even puts itself in the graveyard. From Beyond was responsible for winning a game against Grixis Control and another against D&T.
1 sideboard Thought-Knot Seer. This is for snagging counterspells against control and disrupting combo. In particular, removing a Price of Progress while turtling behind Glacial Chasm and removing Emrakuls after a Show and Tell into Omniscience.


Match Reports:
Round 1: (Storm)
Game 1: I mulligan to 5 with multiple Cloudposts and an old Emrakul. He mulligans to 6 and takes some time to set up, but I draw green cards with no Forests.

-3 Pithing Needle, -2 Ugin, -3 Maze, -1 From Beyond, -1 Ulamog, -1 All is Dust
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +2 Sphere, +2 Trinisphere, +1 TKS, +3 Surgical, +1 Depths

Game 2: I mulligan to 6 and keep 2 Forest, Trinishere, Crop Rotation, Surgical, Depths. I don't find a third mana source before he Duresses the Trinisphere, but I eventually draw all three Surgicals. I extract some cantrips to cut off threshold on some Cabal Rituals, but as a result he gets to hard-cast Tendrils putting me to 2 with a second Tendrils in hand. He goes for it but I have Crop Rotation for Glimmerpost to go to 1. Unfortunately I topdeck nothing useful while he gets Infernal Tutor for Ad Nauseam and combos off.

Round 2: (Grixis Control)
Game 1: I get Hymned down to zero cards in hand, but he does not find Force of Will for my topdecked Ugin which proceeds to take over the game. Tabernacle eats two Gurmag Anglers.

-1 Needle, +1 Spyglass
I make this switch against control because the peek effect on Spyglass makes it more likely to bait a counterspell, and the information can be valuable.

Game 2: He has no early discard and just plays Baleful Strixes into Jace, but does not counter From Beyond. He opts not to attack with the Strixes in order to protect Jace, and an Ugin exiles his board before dying to Bolt. He has another Jace but no blockers so he fateseals me so the Jace won't die to Eldrazi Scions. Scions peck Jace down to 3 and two of them pay for a Spell Pierce so that a second Ugin resolves and bolts away the Jace. Kozilek cleans up.

Round 3: (Burn)
Game 1: I am on the draw, mulligan to 6, and keep a Cloudpost on top, which Goblin Guide puts in my hand. Fortunately I have two Candelabras so after turtling with Glacial Chasm + Thespian's Stage I have the mana to cast Ugin to clear his board and Kozilek to provide action and protection. I have a Chasm-Stage which I turn into a Cloudpost so that I can attack him. In combat he attempts to Searing Blaze Kozilek for the win but I pitch a Warping Wail to counter it.

-1 Bog, -1 Maze, -1 Tabernacle, -3 Needle, -1 From Beyond, -1 Wail
+2 Trinisphere, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Thought-Knot Seer, +1 Dark Depths, +1 Sphere of Resistance
Sphere of Resistance is not great against Burn, but it costs 2 so Kozilek can counter Price with it.

Game 2: He has a slow hand (due to bringing in Ensnaring Bridge) so I manage to stabilize at 12 life with a TKS removing a Fireblast. I Map for Eye of Ugin which is my 5th nonbasic, so he Prices me on the end of my turn. In response I search for Kozilek, then Rotate the Eye into a Chasm and turtle for a couple of turns. Kozilek draws me into Ulamog + Karakas so I go after his lands and he scoops.

Round 4: (Lands)
Game 1: This is a name-recognized SCG player and I know what he is likely to be playing. He plays a Forest and passes, I do the same. He plays a Stage, I do the same. He Wastelands the Stage and I let it happen, then I Rotate for Bog in response to Loam on Wasteland. He has a second Wasteland but decides to copy his own Forest rather than destroy the Bog in response to my Pithing Needle, which names Wasteland. This mistake cost him the game, as I was eventually able to Vesuva-Bog away his Loam, Depths, and singleton Ghost Quarter while gaining enough life to survive Marit Lage. He tries to Punishing-Fire me but I have an Ugin ticking up and a Kozilek to draw more action, while all he has to stop me are Ports. Somehow I never find a Candelabra but it doesn't matter as he concedes the match in order (so I was told) to go to a football game.

Round 5: (D&T)
Game 1: I am always happy to see a T1 Mother of Runes. I get multiple Mazes and a Candelabra to hold off his creatures while I wait to draw a Forest to cast Crop Rotation for Eye of Ugin and the win. For some reason he gets Flickerwisps with Recruiter instead of Phyrexian Revoker to shut off Candelabras. I eventually draw New Emrakul to eat away at his board and he decides to go to the next game.

-1 Bog, -1 From Beyond, +1 Spyglass, +1 Grip

Game 2: He has multiple Ports which seriously constrain my mana, but he has little pressure. Eventually he assembles enough creatures that I Rotate a Maze into a Tabernacle to tie up his Ports, which allows me to clean up with All is Dust and then an Ugin to take out the leftover Revoker.

Round 6: (D&T)
Game 1: He has Wasteland, Port, and Vial but no serious threat. He Flickerwisps out my Needle in order to Wasteland a Cloudpost which keeps me off of threats for several turns, in which Maze + Candelabra works overtime. I have a Tabernacle in play and cast From Beyond, which I then sacrifice to get new Emrakul and make him not pay for his creatures, then put a Revoker on Vial. The game is not completely decided, but he scoops anyway.

-1 Bog, -1 From Beyond, +1 Spyglass, +1 Grip

Game 2: I have no Needle and he has a curve of creatures. I bait him into Wastelanding a Maze so that I can Rotate it into a Cloudpost and start ramping, and copy it with a Stage before it gets Wastelanded. I Vesuva the Cloudpost-Stage and then he Surgicals my Cloudposts, but I have a Candelabra so all is well. I Eye for Ulamog to exile his Ports, and he knows from the Surgical that I also have New Emrakul so he scoops.

Round 7: (U/W Delver-Blade)
Game 1: I am on the draw and mulligan to 5 whereas he blind-flips a T1 Delver and has 3 Wastelands. Having no Needles, I lose.

-1 From Beyond, -1 Wail, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Grip
I expect that he has Back to Basics and I know he has TNN, so I bring Grip for the former and Bomb for both.

Game 2: I am light on mana but Wail away his T1 Delver, after which he has little pressure. He does have a Back to Basics which leaves me with two Forests as mana sources, and a Wasteland for my one Cloudpost. I have Ratchet Bomb in hand but wait to cast it until I have a third mana in order to hold up Crop Rotation for the Wasteland, but after Vendilion Clique arrives I decide to take the risk and tap out for Bomb. For some reason he Wastelands my Tabernacle instead of the Cloudpost, and over three turns I tick up the Bomb and get two more Cloudposts. Bomb takes out the clique and the Back to Basics, allowing me to cast New Emrakul to make him waste his threats.

-1 Wail, +1 Grip
Having now seen Back to Basics I want some more action and Warping Wail is worse on the draw when its main target is Delver.

Game 3: I resolve a T1 Needle and have Maze to hold off his Delver. He lands a Jace and starts fatesealing, but I have an Ugin in hand so when he Ponders with two cards in hand I Rotate a Forest in response which he (correctly) Forces pitching the other card. As a result he can't counter the Ugin which cleans up his board, then Kozilek finishes the job (protecting himself from a StP and a Council's Judgment).

Quarterfinals: (U/B Shadow)
Game 1: I am the fifth seed so I'm on the draw. He has a bunch of cantrips and two Wastelands for Cloudposts, but two Mazes hold off his two creatures. He has counterspells for the All is Dust and the Ugin, so the third threat is too much for the Mazes.

-2 Wail, +1 Spyglass, +1 Dark Depths

Game 2: I put T1 Needle on Wasteland, then attempt to Wail away his 1/1 Death's Shadow but he protects it with Daze. I again get two Mazes to hold off two Delvers, but he cantrips away all his other cards for an additional two Shadows and an Angler. I Map for Chasm but find no action in time.

Thoughts:

From Beyond is very good in its role.
Storm seems to be less common than before, and Sphere of Resistance is in the sideboard for basically that matchup and Food Chain. I plan to replace one Sphere with a third Trinisphere and use the new sideboard slot for something that's good against Death's Shadow.
3 Warping Wails might be OK.

[k_omega]

****** SCG Baltimore Day 1 Report ******

Round 1: 2-1 vs. Grixis Delver
Game 1: He is on the play and leads on Preordain, then cantrips for two turns so I put Needle on Delta thinking he's playing Storm. He immediately Wastelands a Cloudpost, but I have another and a second Candelabra. He Forces my Ugin but can't stop Crop Rotation for Eye and Map -> Cloudpost -> Emrakul

-1 Warping Wail, +1 Ratchet Bomb
I saw True-Name Nemesis so I bring in a Ratchet Bomb.

Game 2: I mulligan to 5 with Kozilek, Cloudpost, Vesuva, Glimmerpost, Stage and scry away the Ratchet Bomb. He Wastelands a Glimmerpost but Maze holds a Delver. I counter a Wasteland on Stage by turning it into a Forest. I go up to 11 with Glimmerpost but he has 2 True-Name Nemesis and Snapcaster + Bolt for lethal.

-1 Ballista, +1 Spyglass

Game 3: I find a Cloudpost with Ancient Stirrings, then he blind-flips a T1 Delver but has only one land. I have Maze and Tabernacle to lock him out, and he has one draw step to find Wasteland before I copy the Cloudpost and Ulamog away his board.

Round 2: 0-2 vs. Grixis Control
Game 1: I get new Emrakul + Karakas but he Jaces into Force of Will to counter the second casting before I can do anything helpful with his cards. Jace fateseals and I get bolted out.

-1 Needle, +1 Spyglass

Game 2: He plays T1 Needle on Eye of Ugin, so I will have to topdeck a threat. Unfortunately he lands a Jace which fateseals me out of the game. This game highlights the easiest way to lose a game with this deck, and was a key motivation for including From Beyond.

Round 3: 2-1 vs. U/W Miracles
Game 1: I mulligan to 4 keeping Vesuva, Chasm, Stirrings, Map and scry a Forest to the top. Stirrings finds a Cloudpost, Vesuva copies it, then I draw more Cloudposts for a hardcast Emrakul on turn 6, followed by Ulamog to take out his white sources.

-2 Needle, -2 Warping Wail, +1 Spyglass, +1 Thought-Knot Seer, +2 Krosan Grip

Game 2: We play draw-land/cantrip-go for several turns but I do not find an answer for his Teferi, whose emblem exiles my Cloudposts. Again, a game where From Beyond would have completely changed the outcome.

Game 3: My mana development is slow and he sets up an Entreat for three angels. He has Humility + Moat to prevent attacks, but the cast trigger from New Emrakul lets me Jace-bounce and StP away his angels so that the follow-up Ulamog can remove his enchantments and I can attack for the win.

Round 4: 2-1 vs. U/B Death's Shadow
Game 1: I resolve Needle on Wasteland and he takes too long to find a threat. I almost lose to Shadow + Delver but a topdecked New Emrakul lets me suicide his Delver and Preordain into Fatal Push for his own Death's Shadow and leaving a useless Daze on top. Obviously he's too low on life to survive the attack.

-2 Wail, +1 Spyglass, +1 Dark Depths

Game 2: I lock out Wasteland with a Needle and have multiple Candelabras, and despite his having 2 Death's Shadows and a Delver he puts a Ratchet Bomb on 1. To be safe, I Spyglass it. I have Maze + 2 Candelabras, but don't have the mana to hold off more than two creatures so when he finds the fourth I lose to it.

Game 3: I put T1 Needle on Wasteland but he Forces the first Map and Dazes my Candelabra. I draw Stage and eventually draw Map to get Dark Depths which he can't stop.

Round 5: 2-0 vs. U/W Delver-Blade
This opponent knows the person to his left and proudly announces to him that he had not lost a game since round 1. I take special pleasure in beating smug players and this time is no exception.
Game 1: I put a T1 Needle on Wasteland and I see my opponent slump a little. He plays Delver, Stoneforge -> Batterskull, and 2 True-Names while I set up. I topdeck Kozilek on the last turn, which draws into Candelabra + Ulamog and Glacial Chasm. Ulamog exiles SFM and Delver and I play Chasm so that I don't die to a possible Sword equipped to a True-Name. He does not have one, so I let go of the Chasm at 7 life and draw Crop Rotation -> Eye -> Emrakul -> win.

+2 Bomb, +2 Grip, -2 Wail, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Walking Ballista
I saw an unusual number of basic lands so I assume he's playing Back to Basics.

Game 2: T1 Needle on Wasteland enables a parade of Cloudposts. He has a lot of reactive cards but no threats besides a True-Name and a Snapcaster, so the combination of Tabernacle + New Emrakul merely wipes his board but leaves his hand unscathed. He draws Council's Judgment to remove Emrakul so we topdeck for a while. I draw Ugin to bolt him out of the game.

Round 6: 1-2 vs. B/R Reanimator
Game 1: I am on the play and lead with Forest and Map. He reanimates Griselbrand, then Chancellor in the same turn. I play a Maze and take 5 from the Chancellor until I can crack the Map to get Karakas, answering both creatures. This is too late as he reanimates another Chancellor and I don't draw another Maze.

-1 Kozilek, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Ulamog, -2 Ugin, -1 Tabernacle
+3 Surgical, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Spyglass
I board out Tabernacle because the current Reanimator build plays Ashen Rider, and Tabernacle allows them to let it die at will to exile a key permanent (such as a Maze). They also only need one creature anyway. I board out all the threats that they could discard and reanimate.

Game 2: I Rotate for Bog to stop T1 Griselbrand, but after two turns he spends his whole hand to Unmask and Exhume a Tidespout Tyrant. He has only two lands, so I play Trinisphere hoping to lock him out while Maze shuts down the Tyrant. He does not draw lands but I draw enough Cloudposts to hardcast Emrakul. This is the first time I've ever beaten a resolved Tidespout.

Game 3: I keep a good 7 with Maze, Crop Rotation, Trinisphere, and Karakas so I opt not to mulligan looking for Surgical Extraction. I have the board under control until he reanimates Archetype of Endurance to shut off Maze + Karakas. I make a chump blocker with Warping Wail but it gets exiled by Ashen Rider.

Round 7: 1-2 vs. Eldrazi
Game 1: He has T1 Chalice on the play and one Maze isn't enough to survive.

-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bog, -3 Warping Wail
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Thought-Knot Seer, +1 Spyglass, +1 Dark Depths

Game 2: I put T1 Needle on Wasteland and have Maze and three Vesuvas to copy it, which is enough to lock him out of combat and he scoops to New Emrakul.

Game 3: I keep 2 Forest, Stirrings, Grip, Kozilek, New Emrakul, and Candelabra. He has no T1 Chalice, so I cast Ancient Stirrings looking for Maze but do not find one. I get beat down and Chasm doesn't buy enough time. I should have mulliganed the hand.

Round 8: 2-1 vs. U/B Reanimator
Game 1: He is on the play and Carefully Studies Elesh Norn and Griselbrand into the graveyard, then Dazes my T1 Crop Rotation. He takes a while to find a reanimation spell and Rotate for Bog twice along the way. He Show and Tells a Tidespout and has some spells to bounce my Cloudpost, but eventually draws lands and counterspells and I can replay the Cloudposts he bounced. I draw Kozilek into All is Dust to clear the Tidespout, and he doesn't have the Force of Will to stop the Crop Rotation for Bog to lock up the win.

-1 Kozilek, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Ulamog, -2 Ugin, -1 Tabernacle
+3 Surgical, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Spyglass

Game 2: I Surgical the first Griselbrand that hits his graveyard, but he Entombs an Inkwell Leviathan that Mazes can't stop. Glacial Chasm buys time but I find no answer.

Game 3: We durdle for a few turns and I blow him out with Surgical, then Warping Wail a Show and Tell that would have put in a Tidespout. I assemble Stage + Depths for the win.

Round 9: 1-2 vs. Eldrazi
Game 1: I turtle behind Chasm but have no Needle. He draws many cards off an Endbringer and finds Wasteland before I find a threat. At one point I Mapped for Eye but should have gotten Tabernacle to tax his mana and force him to take damage from his Ancient Tombs.

-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bog, -3 Warping Wail
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Thought-Knot Seer, +1 Spyglass, +1 Dark Depths

Game 2: He has no Chalice, and plays Matter Reshapers instead of TKS. I take a few hits, but can set up Stage + Depths for the win.

Game 3: I mulligan to 5 and get locked out by Chalice.

Observations:

Walking Ballista really was underwhelming.
All the bad matchups I lost 1-2. This is frustrating but indicates that it might not take much to make them favorable. In particular, I usually lose 0-2 to Eldrazi but these games felt much more winnable.
Tidespout Tyrant can be beaten with Trinispheres and/or luck. I will bring in Trinispheres against reanimator in the future.
T1 Needle on Wasteland is strong.
The easiest way to lose a good matchup is to topdeck air, especially while being fatesealed by Jace.
I won several games by topdecking Kozilek into action.

[k_omega]

Thanks for the report, its a great / clean write up. Oddly enough, I had a foil From Beyond in my 12 post box but never tried it out. I am looking forward to sleeving it up myself.

I'm not sure what other people's metas are but over here there's a down-tick in storm, though lands and and loam pox (don't ask...) is seeing more play. A few people are on Grixis Control. There is also some U/W stoneblade, along with a couple of miracle players. Everything else is mostly singletons. The top two players that have been winning quite a bit are on U/W delver (splashing red) and U/B Shadow.

What sort of advice do you have on the UB Shadow matchup? How important was the 3rd maze for you?

I beat Shadow once during the Open then lost to a much better player in the Classic which are the only times I've played the matchup, so I don't have a solid opinion on it yet. Here's what I think makes the matchup difficult:


They can put you under early pressure quickly.
Their creatures are large enough that Glimmerpost lifegain does not buy whole turns as against D&T, for example.
They can often go wide with threats.
They have counterspells.


On the other hand, there are strong points in our favor:


They can't deal with a resolved noncreature permanent, so Needle on Wasteland shuts down their most threatening interaction.
With Wasteland shut off, Maze + Candelabra is very strong (though they can go wide).
Any threat is lethal since they lose so much life.


Ratchet Bomb might be a good answer but it's awkward to blow up your own Needles and Candelabras, and it doesn't answer Angler. They operate on few lands so Trinisphere could do work. I like the Dark Depths plan against them, at least for now.

The third Maze is extremely important. You never want to expend a Map or a Crop Rotation to get one if you don't need to since those should be devoted to assembling the Cloudpost engine. So you want to draw them naturally, and I have found that with only two copies that doesn't happen often enough. Many decks get eaten alive by Maze + Candelabra so when you get it for free it helps a great deal.

[GradStudent]

Hi everyone.
New to 12 post eldrazi.
I currently have the colorless version. Was wondering what you typically do to prepare for Miracles matchup, and back to basics.

[TheBoozeCube]

@k_omega

Great write up, I’m always excited to see someone doing well with CG. From Beyond is very intriguing; I’m going to have to try it out for sure.

I’m curious about your thoughts on Ancient Tomb. I’m planning to add one to my main, once I figure out what to cut for it. My reasoning is:
(1) Improve game 1 vs combo, since it lets you Crop into Wail on T1
(2) Set up Depths on T3 instead of T4 (although I run mine main alongside a pair of Mirrors)
(3) Postboard, hits Sphere on T1 or more consistent 3Sphere on T2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[k_omega]

Hi everyone.
New to 12 post eldrazi.
I currently have the colorless version. Was wondering what you typically do to prepare for Miracles matchup, and back to basics.

If you're looking to stay with the colorless version then I think you want: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30579-BigEldrazi/


@k_omega

Great write up, I’m always excited to see someone doing well with CG. From Beyond is very intriguing; I’m going to have to try it out for sure.

I’m curious about your thoughts on Ancient Tomb. I’m planning to add one to my main, once I figure out what to cut for it. My reasoning is:
(1) Improve game 1 vs combo, since it lets you Crop into Wail on T1
(2) Set up Depths on T3 instead of T4 (although I run mine main alongside a pair of Mirrors)
(3) Postboard, hits Sphere on T1 or more consistent 3Sphere on T2.


I'll be interested to know how From Beyond works for you. That was my first time playing it and I'm going test it some more.

The Lands players in my area play a sideboard Ancient Tomb for similar reasons and like it. I would not maindeck it unless my meta had a lot of combo, since it is unnecessary in fair matchups where the damage might cost you games. Personally I dislike the idea of burning a Crop Rotation just to power out a sphere because, unlike Lands, we can't lock out the opponent with Wasteland to make the sphere game-winning nor do we win particularly quickly once the sphere is in play, unless we have even more tutors to assemble Stage + Depths. I would prefer to hold up Crop Rotation and wait to draw sphere mana naturally. Maybe that strategy is worse now that the Storm decks play more discard instead of Probes, in which case a quick sphere might be better. I would have to play the matchup more to be sure. I would also want to see how often the sphere forces you to use the Ancient Tomb when you otherwise would not.

Also, if you copy Thespian's Stage with Mirage Mirror then turn the Mirror-Stage into another land, does it revert to being a Mirror at end of turn?

[k_omega]

Anyone watching the coverage of the SCG Open this weekend should pay attention when Jody Keith is on stream. He's playing a Cg list which is a card-for-card copy of my 75 from the classic and his team is ranked 3rd after Day 1. Star City in their infinite wisdom has classified his deck as "Eldrazi Post" but do not be fooled. I guess he saw the light after I curb-stomped him on Lands in the classic.

Here he is briefly in round 6: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/319116849?t=06h15m12s

Apparently he also streamed the deck (with success) earlier this week, the recording of which is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/318146037

I disagree with a lot of his sideboarding but it seems to be working out mostly OK for him.

[ESG]

Was wondering what you typically do to prepare for Miracles matchup, and back to basics.

My, how times have changed.

[Zotmaster]

I haven't been here in a fair amount of time, but I've come out of hiding and I'm looking for some help. If this kind of promotion breaks the rules, just let me know.

On Saturday, November 3rd, I'll be streaming and playing games for 24 hours through Extra Life to raise money for a children's hospital in my area. I thought it would be pretty cool to do at least 12 hours of 12-Post online for it, so I thought I'd post here. I probably have just about anything you'd throw into a Post deck online (at least in terms of cards we've actually played), so if anyone has any interest I think it would also be cool to play some brews if any of you can come up with something silly for me to play.

All donated money goes to the hospital and is 100% tax deductible. If you can donate, you are awesome, but even if you can't, feel free to stop by, say hi, and laugh at my mistakes. For more information, or to donate, check out https://www.extra-life.org/participant/zotmaster . I'll at least announce my stream that day if that's all right, and I hope to see some of you there! :)

[amjw]

So damn tempted to make this sweet deck although the price of Candelabra puts me off...is this deck really bad against wasteland?

[cdnza]

So damn tempted to make this sweet deck although the price of Candelabra puts me off...is this deck really bad against wasteland?

You have needle effects and crop rotations. If anything the deck feels good against wasteland strategies.

[k_omega]

Made top 16 of a local event yesterday with the same list as before (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123970) but -2 Sphere of Resistance, +1 Trinisphere, +1 Elephant Grass in the sideboard. There are more matchups where I want Trinisphere than Sphere of Resistance specifically, and Elephant Grass locks out all non-Delver creatures from UB Shadow.

Matchups:
2-1 vs. BUG Control with Assassin's Trophy
2-0 vs. Enchantress
0-2 vs. 4c Loam (Matthew Vook, who won SCG Baltimore with it)
0-2 vs. Steel Stompy
2-0 vs. Strawberry Shortcake (Jack Kitchen, looked like the same list he played at the Baltimore Open)
2-0 vs. 4c Loam

Many blue players either switched decks or did not show up, resulting in numerous Knight/Chalice decks around the top tables. If I had expected that I would have played a U/G Show and Tell build or at least moved the Ratchet Bombs into the maindeck. Fortunately this meant that I got to see the impact of Assassin's Trophy firsthand.

Round 1: 2-1 vs. BUG Control
Game 1: This person and I have played twice before and he's always played Miracles, so I keep a relatively slow 7 with Cloudpost and Maze on the expectation that he's still playing it. The hand is not enough to win before two True-Names kill me.

-1 Maze, -2 Needle, +1 Spyglass, +2 Ratchet Bomb
I figure he's not playing Wastelands so the Needle & Spyglass are just for Jace. Ratchet Bomb kills TNN and maybe Jace or Liliana. Wails stay in


Game 2: I keep a hand with Stirrings, From Beyond, Cloudpost, Vesuva, Candelabra, Wail, and no green mana. Wail counters a Hymn and I attempt to Stage his Misty Rainforest so I can get green mana. He fetches in response for a Bayou. I untap Stage and one of two Cloudposts to copy the Bayou and in response he kills the Cloudpost with Assassin's Trophy. So I get my green mana anyway. He counters the From Beyond but has nothing for Kozilek.

Game 3: I keep another hand without green mana but get two Cloudposts and two Candelabras on the second turn. This seems to scare him and he plays passively for a few turns while I look to topdeck mana for either Stirrings, Crop Rotation, or the Ugin in hand. I draw a third Cloudpost, cast Ugin to kill his Clique and start bolting him. He has Assassin's Trophy for Ugin, but the Forest unlocks Stirrings for Emrakul which wins.

Round 2: 2-0 vs. Enchantress
Game 1: He casts mana enchantments and draws cards but has nothing for the turn 4 Ugin.

-2 Wail, -1 Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -3 Maze, +1 Spyglass, +3 Grip, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 TKS
I saw Living Wish in game 1 so I keep a few Wails. There aren't enough relevant cards to bring in anyway and the matchup is incredibly easy.

Game 2: He is stuck on lands for a while but the mana enchantments let him cast some engine pieces. I have three Cloudposts, an Eye, and a Candelabra so I tutor for Ulamog to cut off his white mana, buying time for me to get another post for Eye + Emrakul mana. He has one turn to topdeck a win but does not find it so Emrakul cleans up.


Round 3: 0-2 vs. 4c Loam
Game 1: Since he won the Open with it I assume my opponent is playing 4c Loam and mulligan my 7-card hand which would have hardcast Emrakul on turn 4 if unmolested. The 6 and 5-card hands were unplayable garbage without even a Pithing Needle so I keep 4 with 2 Crop Rotations, a Map, and a Candelabra. I scoop to Liliana discard in case he doesn't know what I'm playing, but apparently word has gotten around and he knows what I play.

-1 From Beyond, -1 Kozilek, -2 Candelabra, -4 Wail, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Spyglass, +2 Grip, +1 TKS, +2 Surgical


Game 2: I put T1 Needle on Wasteland and he does not have a Chalice, so I build toward a state where I can Rotate for a second Cloudpost on his end step to get 7 mana for All is Dust, clearing a Liliana which seems to be his only action. Unfortunately he draws Ghost Quarter on the last possible turn, and I die to a follow-up Knight since I discarded a Maze earlier instead of a Krosan Grip.


Round 4: 0-2 vs. Steel Stompy
Game 1: I play T1 Map but then get locked out by Chalice, whereas my opponent naturally draws three Wastelands for my Mazes and Cloudpost.

-1 Bog, -1 From Beyond, -2 All is Dust, -2 Wail, +3 Grip, +1 Spyglass, +2 Ratchet Bomb

Game 2: I have a Maze for his Lodestone Golem and Tabernacle keeps him too low on mana to deploy his hand of 4-drops. I take damage from an Overseer-pumped Vault Skirge for a while while setting up Ulamog to take out his lands and block whatever creature doesn't die to Tabernacle. This setup means I have to play a Forest instead of a Glacial Chasm, so when he topdecks Arcbound Ravager the Maze is no longer enough and I die.


Round 5: 2-0 vs. Strawberry Shortcake
Game 1: I expect this opponent to play Painter so I mulligan my 7-card hand to put old Emrakul back in the deck. We both mulligan to 5 and set up for a while. He assembles the combo, Emrakul shuffles everything back in, and I cast new Emrakul threatening to make him Grindstone himself in his upkeep. He scoops.

-1 Chasm, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Maze, -2 All is Dust, -2 Ancient Stirrings, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Spyglass, +1 Depths, +2 Ratchet Bomb
He has 4 Smuggler's Copters which might be enough to kill me, so I leave in some Mazes. Painter shuts off Stirrings (end Eye) so I board some out for Ratchet Bombs to interrupt the combo. Dark Depths is there to be an auto-win after killing a Blood Moon.

Game 2: Copters hit me down to 7 and he Recruiters up a Goblin Cratermaker. This makes the new Emrakul that I was setting up rather weak, so I Eye for Ulamog before Painter renders it useless and use Ulamog to exile the Copters. He is empty-handed and has neither half of the combo, so his next turn is unthreatening. On my next turn I eye for Emrakul invalidating the Cratermaker and winning the game.


Round 6: 2-0 vs. 4c Loam
Game 1: I played near this person earlier in the day so I know he's on some kind of Knight deck. I am on the play and put T1 Needle on Wasteland, then another one the turn after before he plays a Chalice on 1. A few turns pass with him having a Confidant and a Sylvan Library while I try to find a 10th mana source for the Kozilek I have in hand. He eventually kills both Needles, one with Decay and one with Trophy, giving me the land I need. He attempts to Wasteland a Cloudpost and misses his Chalice trigger for my protective Crop Rotation, so on the next turn I cast Kozilek drawing me into more 1 drops and lands. He plays a Liliana to edict away Kozilek, I play From Beyond which after next turn's Scion token is enough to sacrifice, get New Emrakul, cast it, and play Tabernacle. I make him lose his creatures, pay 8 life for Library, then Punishing Fire himself to death.

-1 From Beyond, -1 Kozilek, -2 Candelabra, -3 Wail, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Spyglass, +2 Grip, +2 Surgical

Game 2: He has two Mox Diamonds and a Loam on the play but no threats or action. I put Needle on Wasteland, then he opts not to dredge Loam instead playing a Ghost Quarter to destroy my Forest. I take the opportunity to Rotate for Bog exiling the Loam and the Ghost Quarter which buys a lot of time, but he Decays my Needle. He plays a Knight to search up Wastelands, but without Loam to recur them he just leaves them in play. I have two Mazes to hold off his Knight + Dryad Arbor while we pass back and forth, him trying to draw action and me trying to build up to 5 mana so I can play Eye of Ugin and All is Dust him in one turn, without him Wastelanding any of the mana-producing lands. Once his graveyard is full of lands he uses both Wastelands to kill my Mazes and attacks expecting lethal, but I Rotate a Forest for a Vesuva-Bog to shrink the Knight and exile the Wastelands. He follows up with a Bob and a Library, but I have my 5 mana and wipe his board. We play draw-go for a while, I copy a Cabal Pit with Stage so I can kill any Bob he plays, but I topdeck a Cloudpost which gets copied by two Stage-Lands and that's enough to Eye for Emrakul and win. An Ugin died to Assassin's Trophy.

Observations:

Another green mana source is called for, especially with From Beyond requiring green. I think 7 Forests is defensible if you only play Stirrings, Crop Rotation, and SB Krosan Grips (I used 7 for a long time), but From Beyond seems to tip the balance in favor of 8 green sources. Better still if the 8th can also be an untapped colorless source. Maybe Grove of the Burnwillows? Alternatively, the storage lands (Fungal Reaches, Saltcrusted Steppe) have synergy with Candelabra and let you "ramp" while topdecking nonland cards. Even Chromatic Star might be good enough.
Warping Wail is pretty bad in my metagame.
Assassin's Trophy means that Ugin is not lights-out against BG decks. Trophy on Cloudpost is not that threatening from control decks but can be backbreaking from Knight decks.
I'd like to play Sea Gate Wreckage to draw lots of cards with Candelabra, but nothing seems reasonable to cut. From Beyond is better since Wreckage is useless if an Eldrazi gets stuck in hand.
New Emrakul was somewhat underwhelming in the classic and I thought about cutting it for old Kozilek. I'm glad I kept it.


Changes: Replace one Warping Wail with a basic Forest and move the Wail to the sideboard in place of Elephant Grass. I'd put it in the sideboard instead of cutting it entirely because countering Hymns is critical against the Grixis decks.

[cdnza]

I played Killian's list from a few weeks ago at a local today. I just put the deck together this week so I have only played a few games with it. All matchups are exciting and new to me!

R1 - Miracles
G1 I just play an Eye of Ugin and get an Emrakul. I think I bring in all three Grips because I saw only basics this game.
G2 My opponent slams B2B on t2. I Krosan Grip it and then get an Eye of Ugin into play, which gets Ulamog and then Emrakul. Interestingly my opponent E-tutors for a Helm in this game, but never plays RiP.

R2 - UB Shadow
G1 I get dazed a couple of times but have Maze/Candle and my opponent doesn't get to a Wasteland before I play a Needle. Eventually I cast a topdecked Kozilek and they concede.
G2 My opponent thoughtseizes my Ulamog and then untaps and Reanimates it, but unfortunately I have the Karakas. I needle Wasteland and chill behind a Maze until I can cast the Ulamog again and my opponent concedes.

R3 - BR Reanimator
G1 I'm pretty sure my opponent is on reanimator. This turned out to be the coolest game I have played in months. I keep a hand with Rotation in it and am able to protect it using Warping Wail on a couple of discard spells. My opponent eventually makes me blow it for Bog, and then rituals into entombing and reanimating an Ashen Rider which exiles my Maze and a couple of Posts, and takes my All is Dust with a discard spell. I'm on like 26 life or something though, so have a few turns of topdecking but not much mana. When I am on 6 life I draw Ancient stirrings which lets me cast From Beyond. My opponent attacks me to 1. I use my candelabra to untap a forest and can then crack From Beyond to get Promised End with exactly enough mana to cast it (because of the Enchantment in the gy now from sacrificing From Beyond). I enslave my opponent's mind and ram their rider into my Emrakul, having them exile one of their own lands, then reanimate the rider and exile itself. My opponent gets their "real" turn but has nothing that vaguely interacts with a lethal 13/13.
G2 I just kinda get griselbranded really fast. I didn't draw any GY interaction either, so probably not the best keep.
G3 I lead with Cloudpost because it lets me play t2 3ball if my opponent doesn't just kill me. My opponent plays lotus petal faithless looting go, so I untap and make 3ball and they look extraordinarily shocked and cannot cast any spells for a very long time. I keep drawing lands so can't really capitalize on this, and my opponent eventually gets to put a Grave Titan into play. Eventually I topdeck Aeons Torn and just cast it with an untapped Karakas.

R4 - Dredge
G1 My opponent discards a bunch of stuff to Putrid Imp and then casts Breakthrough for 0. I respond by rotating for bog. Over subsequent turns I play two Vesuvas on Bog, and then eventually make a big creature I guess.
G2 My opponent plays a land, cracks LED for red discarding their hand including a grave troll and an imp, and attempts to flashback faithless looting. In response I cast double Surgical on both dredge cards. My opponent seemed displeased.

Will spend the credit on increasing my foil% for this deck. Definitely the most interesting deck I have played in a long time. I would encourage anyone else who is playing it to join the 12post discord server so we can work on it together!

@k_omega please don't tell me you're up to 8 forests because I only own 7 arena beta foil forests :'(

[cdnza]

Played a little three round weekly tonight because I was so stoked after the weekend to play the deck more. Same list. I don't totally remember my mulls but this should be approximate.

R1 - Grixis
G1 I have no idea what my opponent is playing. When they cast a Baleful Strix on 2 I sigh in relief. My opponent's only relevant card was a Liliana of the Veil but I blow everything up with Ugin and cast Emrakul.
I board the spyglass for a needle.
G2 My opponent surgically extracts my Ancient Stirrings and Expedition Maps, then I cast an Emrakul.

R2 - Sneak
G1 I am feeling relatively sure that my opponent is playing Sneak. They tap out for a Sneak Attack on 3 and I untap and Ugin it away (my turn 3; not bad). I have needle on Sneak Attack and am holding up Wail and get an active Eye. I cast an Emrakul.
I board my Grips and Spyglass, and don't know if my opponent is on Omni or not so I board my Trinispheres and TKS too. I boarded out the Ugins, Dusts, Tabernacle, Bog, and I think a Warping Wail.
G2 I have a pretty good opener. My opponent plays a cantrip on 1 and then Ancient Tomb into Blood Moon on two. I have a Grip in hand so I'm not overwhelmingly worried. On their next turn they cast Show and Tell and I think for a while. I choose to put in a 3ball since it stops Omni and I have a Karakas anyway if they choose a creature. They reveal an Emrakul, I try to Karakas it and then my opponent points at their moon and I realise I've been really dumb.
G3 I mull into a reasonable hand. I reveal my own Emrakul to an ancient stirrings to deter S&T, and get to spy with a spyglass (which just gets Abraded). I see that my opp has Sneak and Emrakul, so when they tap out for Sneak and I cast Krosan Grip I feel pretty good about things. My opponent untaps and casts a second Sneak and activates it and I'm left a little disappointed!
We talk a bit about SBing after the game. My opponent board out a Sneak and kept in all 4 S&Ts, which feels super loose to me. They also boarded out their Omnis. Anyone here got any thoughts?

R3 - (Esper?) Stoneforge
G1 I know that my opponent has been playing blue stoneforge decks for literally years. I mull to 5 after seeing hands with no mana sources. They groan when I lead with Cloudpost. I drew natural Eye this game so I cast an Emrakul in a few turns.
I board the Grips and a Spyglass for a Rotation, Tabernacle, Bog and Wail.
G2 I actually draw 2 Glimmerposts and a Karakas and then no other lands. My opponent disenchants my t1 map. and kinda goes to town with a Feast and Famine'd mystic. I have like 7 draw steps or something but just see green spells and no lands. It would seem it is in fact possible to lose games to blue control decks!
G3 I think we both mull. I resolve a candle and have two natural posts and natural Eye. I think I cast Kozilek on 4, which gets countered but draws me several cards. I untap and cast Promised End.
My opponent did bring in B2Bs, but I had grips and 4 candles anyhow so I don't think it would've made much of a difference. I left in the Mazes because it seemed good against the SoFaF/Batterskull plan, but I probably could have brought 1 out.

I still need to develop my board plans a bit but I'm getting more used to the typical sequences now. And can do post/candelabra mathematics without needing to double-check myself haha!

Can we rename this thread 12-Post or something yet? Or create a new thread? I think it's super confusing that this thread is called "turbo eldrazi" when it plays like 4 eldrazi (all titans), especially now that there is a popular "Eldrazi Post" deck too. Like this deck is clearly defined by Locuses and not by Eldrazi.

[k_omega]

R2 - Sneak
G1 I am feeling relatively sure that my opponent is playing Sneak. They tap out for a Sneak Attack on 3 and I untap and Ugin it away (my turn 3; not bad). I have needle on Sneak Attack and am holding up Wail and get an active Eye. I cast an Emrakul.
I board my Grips and Spyglass, and don't know if my opponent is on Omni or not so I board my Trinispheres and TKS too. I boarded out the Ugins, Dusts, Tabernacle, Bog, and I think a Warping Wail.

Never board out Wails against S&S. You can cut at least one Maze and the Chasm. If possible, try to keep an All is Dust (especially if you keep From Beyond) because games can often get to where they have multiple troublesome permanents in play while you are both topdecking.



We talk a bit about SBing after the game. My opponent board out a Sneak and kept in all 4 S&Ts, which feels super loose to me. They also boarded out their Omnis. Anyone here got any thoughts?
They should keep in Omniscience since that makes their S&T powerful enough to beat the best card you could put in off of it. Against Cg specifically it's fine (from their perspective) to keep all the S&T's because we only have Emrakul and Karakas to put in that would stop them from effectively winning that turn. With Omniscience, even those two cards don't work.


Can we rename this thread 12-Post or something yet? Or create a new thread? I think it's super confusing that this thread is called "turbo eldrazi" when it plays like 4 eldrazi (all titans), especially now that there is a popular "Eldrazi Post" deck too. Like this deck is clearly defined by Locuses and not by Eldrazi.

I've been thinking that we should get the people who have had success with the modern-day versions of the various builds to write their own primers and put them in a new thread. into_play did well with a U/G build a few months back I think. I don't know if it's possible to rename this thread, and the creator of this thread appears not to be active here anymore.

[Dice_Box]

Done.

Next time, just message me.

[TheBoozeCube]

Also, if you copy Thespian's Stage with Mirage Mirror then turn the Mirror-Stage into another land, does it revert to being a Mirror at end of turn?

I’ve never tried that, but I’m pretty sure it goes back to Mirror at end of turn as a delayed triggered ability.

I’m planning to try your list out (although minus a Surgical). Any advice on how to board with From Beyond? Am I correct in assuming that it comes out against most combo decks?

Also, I’m really curious why you moved a Wail to the board. It seems like it would really hurt your game 1 vs combo, Hymn decks, and D&T (for Revoker).

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[Valleysdai]

Hey all, it's been a while since I commented with my UG post deck (May was the last I believe) with the ban on deathrite has that officially killed BUG post?

I've come up with a spicy take on BUG post that protects on a different axis while ramping to the main threats. I am happy to post the first iteration if wanted.

[k_omega]

I’ve never tried that, but I’m pretty sure it goes back to Mirror at end of turn as a delayed triggered ability.

I asked a judge about it last weekend and it does revert to being a Mirror.


I’m planning to try your list out (although minus a Surgical). Any advice on how to board with From Beyond? Am I correct in assuming that it comes out against most combo decks?

From Beyond stays in if you expect there to be long stretches of turns where neither player does much and/or you expect to end up in topdeck mode. In every other matchup you can safely board it out. The only combo matchup where I would keep it is Sneak and Show so that you can tutor for an All is Dust, tutor for Emrakul in response to S&T, or make forward progress under Blood Moon. Also relevant is that the scions provide colorless mana for Wails when Moon is in play.


Also, I’m really curious why you moved a Wail to the board. It seems like it would really hurt your game 1 vs combo, Hymn decks, and D&T (for Revoker).


I haven't playtested the list with one in the board, but it is what I'm going to test next. I mulliganed several hands and almost lost some games due to lack of green mana, so I want to test an additional Forest and something has to be cut. Wail is very underwhelming in my meta apart from countering Hymns which is a risk I'm willing to take (also why the fourth is in the board instead of being cut entirely). The D&T matchup is so good already that I'm not worried about it.


Hey all, it's been a while since I commented with my UG post deck (May was the last I believe) with the ban on deathrite has that officially killed BUG post?

I've come up with a spicy take on BUG post that protects on a different axis while ramping to the main threats. I am happy to post the first iteration if wanted.
A friend of mine plays BUG post on MTGO and seems to like it. I don't know his list, but I'd be interested in seeing yours.

[Valleysdai]

A friend of mine plays BUG post on MTGO and seems to like it. I don't know his list, but I'd be interested in seeing yours.

I'm glad to hear that BUG post is still alive and kicking.

Here is my list that I call villainous post:

28 lands
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
1 thespian's stage
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 karakas
2 tropical island
1 bayou
1 forest
1 island
1 tabernacle
1 bojuka bog
1 maze
1 glacial chasm
1 eye of ugin
3 fetches

32 spells
4 crop rotation
4 force of will
4 villainous wealth
3 eldrazi (player's choice)
1 leovold
1 candelabra
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 pithing needle (debating having a 1/1 split with spyglass)
2 exploration (flex slots)
2 spell pierce
1 walking ballista

Sideboard
1 notion thief
1 massacre
2 krosan grip
4 assassin's trophy
1 flusterstorm
1 swamp
2 courser of kruphix
3 stifle

I believe using the counters and controls will enable us to answer combo and other archetypes more easily while building to our late game finisher and villainous wealth can be used as Force fodder while we build up.

This is a first draft of an idea to see if it is doable.

[cdnza]

It's not clear to me how this is supposed to work. It seems extraordinarily optimistic to me to think you will ever be able to cast UBG spells in a deck that ideally wants to play entirely colourless-producing lands, and honestly I'm not sure I can imagine when Villainous Wealth is going to be better than just playing your own cards. If you are ever able to cast VW with a reasonable X value, you could just be casting Primeval Titan/Ugin/Emrakul/etc. It's certainly a cool and fun card but it seems awful in 12post to me.

[TheBoozeCube]

@k_omega:

I ran a couple of leagues with your list, both 3-2. I really, really like it (although I still haven’t gotten the chance to use From Beyond yet). I absolutely love the 1-of TKS in the board.

I was a bit skeptical about Great Distortion over Butcher of Truth, but he’s exceeding my expectations. I do really miss the reshuffle trigger though; not being able to tutor for him again when he gets countered is sad. Still, he definitely pulls his weight.

I’m not 100% on Promised End. I’ll play with her some more, but she’s been underwhelming in most of the matches where I’ve cast her.

I’m only running 2x Surgicals so it’s only 74 of your 75. I have them in paper, but I’m not ready to spend $30 for one online yet, so I’m trying to come up with an alternative. I ran a Spatial Contortion in its place for the leagues, but it doesn’t seem great in the meta right now. I’m torn between: 3rd Ratchet Bomb, 2nd TKS, Forcefield, Oblivion Stone, 4th Grip, or Sylvan Library. Thoughts?


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[k_omega]

@k_omega:

I ran a couple of leagues with your list, both 3-2. I really, really like it (although I still haven’t gotten the chance to use From Beyond yet). I absolutely love the 1-of TKS in the board.

I was a bit skeptical about Great Distortion over Butcher of Truth, but he’s exceeding my expectations. I do really miss the reshuffle trigger though; not being able to tutor for him again when he gets countered is sad. Still, he definitely pulls his weight.

I’m not 100% on Promised End. I’ll play with her some more, but she’s been underwhelming in most of the matches where I’ve cast her.

I’m only running 2x Surgicals so it’s only 74 of your 75. I have them in paper, but I’m not ready to spend $30 for one online yet, so I’m trying to come up with an alternative. I ran a Spatial Contortion in its place for the leagues, but it doesn’t seem great in the meta right now. I’m torn between: 3rd Ratchet Bomb, 2nd TKS, Forcefield, Oblivion Stone, 4th Grip, or Sylvan Library. Thoughts?


I used to play Butcher of Truth when I started with one of your lists and was skeptical of Great Distortion as well. I'm not going back unless there's a Painter resurgence, which would be the only thing that makes me actively want a second shuffle effect. The counterspell effect on Great Distortion gives you some ways to win troublesome matchups that you don't have otherwise. I like having access to unique effects like that because they can win games that you would otherwise have lost, as opposed to winning more quickly in a game you would have eventually won anyway. I've stayed with Promised End for the same reason though I have also found it underwhelming even compared to how good it was earlier this year, particularly against blue control decks. The key feature is that Promised End can actually get cards out of the opponent's hand which no other big Eldrazi can do. It also gives you some angles to deal with TNN. I could see replacing it with a Butcher of Truth, but that substitution will cost you games against StP decks and I suspect it would be a net detriment.

If you're limited to the options you listed I would go with the Library unless a) there is a lot of combo in which case do a second TKS, or b) there are a lot of hate artifacts/enchantments in which case do a fourth Grip. Honestly, though, I would rather have another piece of graveyard interaction so I would go with Relic of Progenitus for the redraw and to mess with Snapcasters and Loams.

[TheBoozeCube]

I used to play Butcher of Truth when I started with one of your lists and was skeptical of Great Distortion as well. I'm not going back unless there's a Painter resurgence, which would be the only thing that makes me actively want a second shuffle effect. The counterspell effect on Great Distortion gives you some ways to win troublesome matchups that you don't have otherwise. I like having access to unique effects like that because they can win games that you would otherwise have lost, as opposed to winning more quickly in a game you would have eventually won anyway. I've stayed with Promised End for the same reason though I have also found it underwhelming even compared to how good it was earlier this year, particularly against blue control decks. The key feature is that Promised End can actually get cards out of the opponent's hand which no other big Eldrazi can do. It also gives you some angles to deal with TNN. I could see replacing it with a Butcher of Truth, but that substitution will cost you games against StP decks and I suspect it would be a net detriment.

If you're limited to the options you listed I would go with the Library unless a) there is a lot of combo in which case do a second TKS, or b) there are a lot of hate artifacts/enchantments in which case do a fourth Grip. Honestly, though, I would rather have another piece of graveyard interaction so I would go with Relic of Progenitus for the redraw and to mess with Snapcasters and Loams.

It’s funny, I actually noticed that exact point about Promised End while playing against Burn earlier today. Used her with Chasm in play to Smash to Smithereens their own Ensnaring Bridge, find out that they had a Price in hand, which told me I needed to Eye into TKS before letting Chasm die. The best part was that they alt-casted both Fireblasts that they were holding in response to Emrakul’s, targeting me despite Chasm, just so that I couldn’t make them burn themselves. So you could say I’m warming up to her…

What do you think about a maindeck TKS? I find myself boarding it in for so many matchups. And what would you cut from the main to make room?


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[bomberman32]

It’s funny, I actually noticed that exact point about Promised End while playing against Burn earlier today. Used her with Chasm in play to Smash to Smithereens their own Ensnaring Bridge, find out that they had a Price in hand, which told me I needed to Eye into TKS before letting Chasm die. The best part was that they alt-casted both Fireblasts that they were holding in response to Emrakul’s, targeting me despite Chasm, just so that I couldn’t make them burn themselves. So you could say I’m warming up to her…

What do you think about a maindeck TKS? I find myself boarding it in for so many matchups. And what would you cut from the main to make room?


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Main deck TKS is amazing, I currently am on 4 main deck. It not only puts a body on the field early, but the hand disruption can be very vital to the beginning of a match depending on your opponent. I would highly recommend it. Even later in the game it can still hold its value. Although stopping an early threat is fun. T1 tomb, chalice on 1. T2 temple, TKS is a great way to start the vast majority of games.

[TheBoozeCube]

Main deck TKS is amazing, I currently am on 4 main deck. It not only puts a body on the field early, but the hand disruption can be very vital to the beginning of a match depending on your opponent. I would highly recommend it. Even later in the game it can still hold its value. Although stopping an early threat is fun. T1 tomb, chalice on 1. T2 temple, TKS is a great way to start the vast majority of games.

I’m on C/g, so a lot of that doesn’t apply. I’m looking at it more as a 1-of Eye target. Especially for things like baiting/exiling a FoW to clear the way for a board wipe, swiping a Price while I’m behind a Chasm, a body I can tutor for and block with at 9, etc.


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[k_omega]

It’s funny, I actually noticed that exact point about Promised End while playing against Burn earlier today. Used her with Chasm in play to Smash to Smithereens their own Ensnaring Bridge, find out that they had a Price in hand, which told me I needed to Eye into TKS before letting Chasm die. The best part was that they alt-casted both Fireblasts that they were holding in response to Emrakul’s, targeting me despite Chasm, just so that I couldn’t make them burn themselves. So you could say I’m warming up to her…

What do you think about a maindeck TKS? I find myself boarding it in for so many matchups. And what would you cut from the main to make room?


Games like that are exactly why I put TKS in the sideboard and one of the many reasons I've stayed with Promised End. I view TKS as a tool for specific matchups rather than a general-purpose beater, but I could see putting one or maybe two in the main. In the Divining Top era I played G/W Titan builds and really liked having exactly 2 TKS maindeck. I would cut the From Beyond so that you're not tapping out for 4-drops too often, and because there's no reason to dilute the deck's core for TKS. I think From Beyond does a better job of addressing the deck's general weaknesses though, so I would rather keep it in the main and bring in TKS as needed.

[CptHaddock]

It's not clear to me how this is supposed to work. It seems extraordinarily optimistic to me to think you will ever be able to cast UBG spells in a deck that ideally wants to play entirely colourless-producing lands, and honestly I'm not sure I can imagine when Villainous Wealth is going to be better than just playing your own cards. If you are ever able to cast VW with a reasonable X value, you could just be casting Primeval Titan/Ugin/Emrakul/etc. It's certainly a cool and fun card but it seems awful in 12post to me.

Yeah it seems like such a strange list, S&T -> Prime Time is a very good plan B and gives you the potential to "race" against combo decks so I have no idea why you wouldn't play it. Imo the reason to be BUG is decay/deluge and if you're playing 3 colors you can't really afford to play cards like candle, maze and actual cards that have a BUG casting cost.

[TheBoozeCube]

Games like that are exactly why I put TKS in the sideboard and one of the many reasons I've stayed with Promised End. I view TKS as a tool for specific matchups rather than a general-purpose beater, but I could see putting one or maybe two in the main. In the Divining Top era I played G/W Titan builds and really liked having exactly 2 TKS maindeck. I would cut the From Beyond so that you're not tapping out for 4-drops too often, and because there's no reason to dilute the deck's core for TKS. I think From Beyond does a better job of addressing the deck's general weaknesses though, so I would rather keep it in the main and bring in TKS as needed.

I wasn’t thinking of maindeck TKS as a general beater but rather for the quasi-Thoughtseize effect. But I wouldn’t want to cut From Beyond for it. I’m really digging FB even though I haven’t had many opportunities to use it yet. I especially like that it’s a single card that gives you both a threat you can easily play through a Blood Moon and a way to generate colorless mana through one. There’s a fair bit of Blood Moon Stompy/Big Red in my local meta, so I had been running a Wastes in the board to be able to counter Fiery Confluence and Spatial Contortion their Magus. Can’t land tutor directly for From Beyond, but the added general utility seems worth it.

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[k_omega]

I wasn’t thinking of maindeck TKS as a general beater but rather for the quasi-Thoughtseize effect. But I wouldn’t want to cut From Beyond for it. I’m really digging FB even though I haven’t had many opportunities to use it yet. I especially like that it’s a single card that gives you both a threat you can easily play through a Blood Moon and a way to generate colorless mana through one. There’s a fair bit of Blood Moon Stompy/Big Red in my local meta, so I had been running a Wastes in the board to be able to counter Fiery Confluence and Spatial Contortion their Magus. Can’t land tutor directly for From Beyond, but the added general utility seems worth it.


I would have suggested cutting a Warping Wail since TKS is also good against combo, but I knew how much you like 4x Wails. I agree with keeping From Beyond if at all possible.

[TheBoozeCube]

Hey everybody. I’m on today’s episode of Leaving a Legacy, talking all about C/G Post (despite the incorrect title as Eldrazi Post [emoji2955]). You can find it here: https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2018/10/mtg-legacy-eldrazi-post/


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[maCHOOga]

I Just listened to the podcast on the drive into work. Really makes me wish I bought candelabras number 3 and 4 back in the day. Especiall Since it’s the version that’s putting up the best results. I really miss playing 12post...and the discussions surrounding it. I assume a GW variant is no longer viable, despite picking up a sweet new GoR Card.

[TheBoozeCube]

I Just listened to the podcast on the drive into work. Really makes me wish I bought candelabras number 3 and 4 back in the day. Especiall Since it’s the version that’s putting up the best results. I really miss playing 12post...and the discussions surrounding it. I assume a GW variant is no longer viable, despite picking up a sweet new GoR Card.

You can at least play C/G on MTGO. It’s practically a budget deck!

I have no idea whether G/W is viable or not. I would think it has a more difficult time against Grixis Control because it’s more at the mercy of the topdeck, but it does have access to sick sideboard cards. I’d have to imagine that Leyline and RIP are particularly good at the moment.


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[k_omega]

Hey everybody. I’m on today’s episode of Leaving a Legacy, talking all about C/G Post (despite the incorrect title as Eldrazi Post [emoji2955]). You can find it here: https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2018/10/mtg-legacy-eldrazi-post/


That was a good podcast. Thanks for the shout-outs.


I Just listened to the podcast on the drive into work. Really makes me wish I bought candelabras number 3 and 4 back in the day. Especiall Since it’s the version that’s putting up the best results. I really miss playing 12post...and the discussions surrounding it. I assume a GW variant is no longer viable, despite picking up a sweet new GoR Card.

I got some Mirri's Guile's a few days ago to see if they could be a Top replacement for GW builds. The plan is to swap 4 Tops from an old list for 3 Guile + 1 Sylvan Library and see how it goes. StP seems good against all the Anglers and Death's Shadows.

[MechTactical]

That was a good podcast. Thanks for the shout-outs.



I got some Mirri's Guile's a few days ago to see if they could be a Top replacement for GW builds. The plan is to swap 4 Tops from an old list for 3 Guile + 1 Sylvan Library and see how it goes. StP seems good against all the Anglers and Death's Shadows.

I’ve tested extensively with mirri’s guile after sdt ban. It’s solid when cast t1 but it’s a bad top deck later when you need action. Ponder is strictly better at being a top “replacement.” However, 4 GW there isn’t much choice besides library/mirri. GW as in a maverick spash (gsz+toolbox)? In that case tracker can draw lots of cards + titania for cuteness;) i even tried natural order for more tutor effects instead of runing mirri...

[Zotmaster]

I've been working on a Mono Blue list that I think has some potential. I'm going to dump it here if anyone is interested.

1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
6 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Tolaria West
4 Vesuva
4 Preordain
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Trinket Mage
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Mindslaver
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Walking Ballista
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

SIDEBOARD
3 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
1 Karakas
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Walking Ballista

So far Preordain has actually outperformed my expectations. No Brainstorm since I'm not running fetches. Trinket Mage does a lot of work, and can even get you Ballista in addition to the variety of graveyard hate out of the board. Recurring Mindslaver is obviously a wincon, and a lot of fair decks can't beat recurred Wurmcoil either. The blue count is a bit low, but the bigger problem I've dealt with so far is not being able to refill my hand. I was looking at Prophet of Distortion and Kefnet the Mindful but I'm guessing neither is good enough.

Lastly, I'm cribbing some of your lists for my stream next Saturday. I won't link it again until the day of (you can find it on the previous page). If anyone else has any silly brews they want me to try, feel free to send them my way. Hope to see you next week! :)

[TheBoozeCube]

I've been working on a Mono Blue list that I think has some potential. I'm going to dump it here if anyone is interested.

1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
6 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Tolaria West
4 Vesuva
4 Preordain
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Trinket Mage
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Mindslaver
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Walking Ballista
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

SIDEBOARD
3 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
1 Karakas
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Walking Ballista

So far Preordain has actually outperformed my expectations. No Brainstorm since I'm not running fetches. Trinket Mage does a lot of work, and can even get you Ballista in addition to the variety of graveyard hate out of the board. Recurring Mindslaver is obviously a wincon, and a lot of fair decks can't beat recurred Wurmcoil either. The blue count is a bit low, but the bigger problem I've dealt with so far is not being able to refill my hand. I was looking at Prophet of Distortion and Kefnet the Mindful but I'm guessing neither is good enough.

Lastly, I'm cribbing some of your lists for my stream next Saturday. I won't link it again until the day of (you can find it on the previous page). If anyone else has any silly brews they want me to try, feel free to send them my way. Hope to see you next week! :)

Cool list. A few thoughts:

1) What does Oboro do here? I’m assuming it has a specific function, but I can’t figure it out.

2) What about a 1-of Steel Hellkite and Haven of the Spirit Dragon? You can recur Hellkite with either Haven or Ruins, and Haven lets you recur Ugin too, especially since you’re running Crucible already.

3) If you’re having problems filling your hand, what about either Staff of Nin, Coercive Portal, or The Immortal Sun? All are one-sided Howling Mines. Staff adds removal and a clock, Portal is cheap, and Immortal Sun buffs your Trinket Mages and turns off Jace & Lilly.

4) 4x Force of Will seems pretty ambitious, especially main.

5) What about a green splash for Ancient Stirrings with all that artifact stuff you have going on?

6) Bojuka Bog seems underwhelming in the main, since you’ve only got Map to find it and can’t use it at instant speed. Maybe maindeck Crypt instead?

7) Might be too cute, but what about Riptide Laboratory to rebuy your Trinket Mages?


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[Zotmaster]

1) What does Oboro do here? I’m assuming it has a specific function, but I can’t figure it out.

Oboro allows you to access a second blue mana even if it's your only blue source, so you can hard-cast Force, cantrip and then cast Trinket Mage, tutor with Tolaria West, and so on. While it's vulnerable to land hate, it also fights all of the same land hate to a degree.


2) What about a 1-of Steel Hellkite and Haven of the Spirit Dragon? You can recur Hellkite with either Haven or Ruins, and Haven lets you recur Ugin too, especially since you’re running Crucible already.

Hellkite is perfectly fine and is one of a number of cards I considered at the top of the curve. A second Wurmcoil or even a Sundering Titan would be valid as well. You could even run a 1-of Treasure Mage. Haven is probably worse since it doesn't get back nearly as many things as Academy Ruins does.


3) If you’re having problems filling your hand, what about either Staff of Nin, Coercive Portal, or The Immortal Sun? All are one-sided Howling Mines. Staff adds removal and a clock, Portal is cheap, and Immortal Sun buffs your Trinket Mages and turns off Jace & Lilly.

As is, everything at 6 mana and up can win the game by itself. Especially without extra rocks like Grim Monolith or Thran Dynamo to help turbo it out, Staff of Nin feels inadequate. Immortal Sun turns off Ugin and small Karn as wincons. Speaking of which, running small Karn main (who can also win a game by himself) is also an option.

There were three reasons I considered Kefnet and Prophet: they're both cheaper, they both block (albeit situationally with Kefnet), and their abilities are both repeatable. Another card I'm considering is Thirst for Knowledge, which also ups the blue count a bit.


4) 4x Force of Will seems pretty ambitious, especially main.

I need a bigger sample size, but so far I've been able to cast Force once when I've needed to. Running it is a nod to the fact that the deck needs early game protection since it doesn't run Crop Rotation.


5) What about a green splash for Ancient Stirrings with all that artifact stuff you have going on?

I wanted to make a straight mono-blue list, but more than that, it would drastically change the composition of the deck. At that point, you'd want fetches, which means you'd probably want duals, and you'd probably want Brainstorm, and you'd probably want fewer colored cards, and so on. There are some old UG lists that have run it, but those decks play differently as well.


6) Bojuka Bog seems underwhelming in the main, since you’ve only got Map to find it and can’t use it at instant speed. Maybe maindeck Crypt instead?

Tolaria West gets it too. It's a little weaker, but the presence of maindeck countermagic mitigates that a little bit. Tolaria West works as a nigh-uncounterable Map in addition to all the other things it does. I was thinking about moving either Crypt or Cage into the main. Not sure yet.


7) Might be too cute, but what about Riptide Laboratory to rebuy your Trinket Mages?

Probably is. I'd probably also want to run Glen Elendra Archmage, perhaps Venser, Shaper Savant, if not both. Even so, I'd probably rather tutor for Academy Ruins or another Locus than get it.

[cdnza]

Not sure how Oboro lets you hardcast Force :tongue:

I have always loved that card since Kami block though. Let us know how the list does in your tests and please also join the 12post discord!

[Zotmaster]

Not sure how Oboro lets you hardcast Force :tongue:

I have always loved that card since Kami block though. Let us know how the list does in your tests and please also join the 12post discord!

I mean, you technically still could if you did it before you cast the spell during your turn. But yes, that was a little bit of a derp :tongue:

Call me a "get off my lawn" guy, but I hate hate hate hate Discord so I tend to not use it :(

[ParisFlorian]

Hi guys,
What do you think of Emmy v2 ? I found her very underwhelming so far.

Maybe the other Kozilek (repeatable draw with Karakas + reshuffle trigger), or even World breaker, may be more decisive ?

[Loxmatii]

hello to everybody!

Long time i didnt write to this thread, but was watching

I want to share my monoG list, that me an Marcel are testing a lot at online in the moment:

// 61 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

// 4 Creature
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 29 Land
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
7 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ancient Tomb

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// 10 Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
2 All Is Dust


// 15 Sideboard
// 7 Artifact
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb

// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

// 5 Instant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction


what do i miss in main:
1 more land(8th forest, 4th vesuva or second tomb)

1-2 Little Karn
1-2 Big Karn
but not sure about them at all

i like my current 61 in main. Explores are awesome. They help in all our plans - ramp, defense, kill

Tomb in main looks very important

what do i miss in side:
4th TKS

more grave hate

thinking about changing Grips into Naturalize

blue traps

If tomorrow will be a GP i, probably, will go monoG posts (=

i will keep testing and write more my thoughts about the list

BTW, yesterday Marcel shared interesting list from Japan:
Mainboard Cards(60)
Lands(27)
1
《Bojuka Bog》
1
《Cavern of Souls》
4
《Cloudpost》
1
《Eye of Ugin》
10
《Forest》
4
《Glimmerpost》
1
《Karakas》
1
《The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale》
4
《Vesuva》
Creatures(16)
4
《Elvish Rejuvenator》
4
《Thought-Knot Seer》
4
《Primeval Titan》
1
《World Breaker》
1
《Kozilek, Butcher of Truth》
1
《Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger》
1
《Emrakul, the Aeons Torn》
Spells(17)
3
《Ancient Stirrings》
2
《Candelabra of Tawnos》
4
《Crop Rotation》
3
《Expedition Map》
3
《Summoning Trap》
2
《Ugin, the Spirit Dragon》
Sideboard Cards(15)
2
《Pithing Needle》
2
《Sphere of Resistance》
2
《Thorn of Amethyst》
4
《Krosan Grip》
4
《Leyline of the Void》
1
《Ancient Tomb》

I think it deserves to be think about

see u, friends! (=

[ParisFlorian]

With these 4 Explore / 61 cards, you may really want to play the 8th forest.

Personnally Big Karn has been good to me so far as a 1 of (but I just played like 20 hours or something with the deck).
He is a good MD answer to colorless permanents.

[TheBoozeCube]

Hi guys,
What do you think of Emmy v2 ? I found her very underwhelming so far.

Maybe the other Kozilek (repeatable draw with Karakas + reshuffle trigger), or even World breaker, may be more decisive ?

I’m still testing with her in k_omega’s list, and I’m undecided. She seems very situational. I’ve both won and lost games after casting her.

Kozilek 1.0 would probably be my go-to replacement if I don’t stick with her. I definitely miss his reshuffle trigger, especially against blue decks where he’s liable to get countered. He’s also better against Sneak & Show, since his annihilator will beat their Emrakul most of the time.


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[TheBoozeCube]

hello to everybody!

Long time i didnt write to this thread, but was watching

I want to share my monoG list, that me an Marcel are testing a lot at online in the moment:

// 61 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

// 4 Creature
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 29 Land
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
7 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ancient Tomb

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// 10 Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
2 All Is Dust


// 15 Sideboard
// 7 Artifact
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb

// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

// 5 Instant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction


what do i miss in main:
1 more land(8th forest, 4th vesuva or second tomb)

1-2 Little Karn
1-2 Big Karn
but not sure about them at all

i like my current 61 in main. Explores are awesome. They help in all our plans - ramp, defense, kill

Tomb in main looks very important

what do i miss in side:
4th TKS

more grave hate

thinking about changing Grips into Naturalize

blue traps

If tomorrow will be a GP i, probably, will go monoG posts (=

i will keep testing and write more my thoughts about the list

BTW, yesterday Marcel shared interesting list from Japan:
Mainboard Cards(60)
Lands(27)
1
《Bojuka Bog》
1
《Cavern of Souls》
4
《Cloudpost》
1
《Eye of Ugin》
10
《Forest》
4
《Glimmerpost》
1
《Karakas》
1
《The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale》
4
《Vesuva》
Creatures(16)
4
《Elvish Rejuvenator》
4
《Thought-Knot Seer》
4
《Primeval Titan》
1
《World Breaker》
1
《Kozilek, Butcher of Truth》
1
《Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger》
1
《Emrakul, the Aeons Torn》
Spells(17)
3
《Ancient Stirrings》
2
《Candelabra of Tawnos》
4
《Crop Rotation》
3
《Expedition Map》
3
《Summoning Trap》
2
《Ugin, the Spirit Dragon》
Sideboard Cards(15)
2
《Pithing Needle》
2
《Sphere of Resistance》
2
《Thorn of Amethyst》
4
《Krosan Grip》
4
《Leyline of the Void》
1
《Ancient Tomb》

I think it deserves to be think about

see u, friends! (=

I’m not a huge fan of Ancient Tomb in these lists. It only powers out the 4x Sphere/Thorn that make a major difference on Turn 1 (Ratchet Bomb really only matters on turn 1 if they go Empty the Warrens, but you’ve got Tabernacle for that). IMO, it’s not worth the slot (especially main) if you’re not also running Warping Wail to fight combo. I think you’d be better off with a 4th Vesuva in the 1st list or a Ratchet Bomb in the 2nd.


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[k_omega]

Call me a "get off my lawn" guy, but I hate hate hate hate Discord so I tend to not use it :(
I'm the same way with Facebook so I'm not in the 12 Post group there. I wonder if there's a way to automatically assemble posts from Discord and FB and put them in a digest here.


Hi guys,
What do you think of Emmy v2 ? I found her very underwhelming so far.

Maybe the other Kozilek (repeatable draw with Karakas + reshuffle trigger), or even World breaker, may be more decisive ?

I would not even consider World Breaker over Old Kozilek or New Emrakul. The likely targets either make it more difficult to cast (Moon, B2B) or are intended to lock you out while beating down (Chalice). In either case you probably lose before getting to World Breaker mana.

Would 5 Eldrazi be too many in a Cg list?


hello to everybody!

Long time i didnt write to this thread, but was watching

I want to share my monoG list, that me an Marcel are testing a lot at online in the moment:

// 61 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

// 4 Creature
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 29 Land
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
7 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ancient Tomb

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// 10 Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
2 All Is Dust


// 15 Sideboard
// 7 Artifact
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb

// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

// 5 Instant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction


what do i miss in main:
1 more land(8th forest, 4th vesuva or second tomb)

1-2 Little Karn
1-2 Big Karn
but not sure about them at all

i like my current 61 in main. Explores are awesome. They help in all our plans - ramp, defense, kill

Tomb in main looks very important

what do i miss in side:
4th TKS

more grave hate

thinking about changing Grips into Naturalize

blue traps

If tomorrow will be a GP i, probably, will go monoG posts (=

i will keep testing and write more my thoughts about the list


Some questions for you:

You have 14 green spells and only 7 Forests. Do you have trouble casting the green cards?
How much does not having the 4th Candelabra hurt the deck?
How often is the maindeck Dark Depths helpful?
Have you ever tested little Karn? It's on my list of possible cards but it's a low priority because I think there's too much risk of exiling an important 1-of and not being able to get it back. I'm wondering if you have had that problem.

[ParisFlorian]

I would not even consider World Breaker over Old Kozilek or New Emrakul. The likely targets either make it more difficult to cast (Moon, B2B) or are intended to lock you out while beating down (Chalice). In either case you probably lose before getting to World Breaker mana.

Would 5 Eldrazi be too many in a Cg list?


I think there is room for both old Kozi & new Emmy indeed.
And you are probably right about World Breaker... I am just trying to find ways to improve our stompy MUs (I basically keep losing against Eldrazi stompy, and Steel / Moon stompy are bad as well).
I feel like Kgrips and Ratchet bombs are generally not enough.
Since we have to deal with Chalice and other suff, a (possibly colorless) board and some annoying Spyglasses post side, I want want to board in something like Oblivion Stone. Any thoughts about this one ?

Florian

[TheBoozeCube]

I think there is room for both old Kozi & new Emmy indeed.
And you are probably right about World Breaker... I am just trying to find ways to improve our stompy MUs (I basically keep losing against Eldrazi stompy, and Steel / Moon stompy are bad as well).
I feel like Kgrips and Ratchet bombs are generally not enough.
Since we have to deal with Chalice and other suff, a (possibly colorless) board and some annoying Spyglasses post side, I want want to board in something like Oblivion Stone. Any thoughts about this one ?

Florian

Oblivion Stone is a fine option. I’ve run it over an All Is Dust precisely because it helps with the various Stompy matchups. In general, however, Oblivion Stone is worse against the rest of the field than Dust because: (1) it destroys your stuff too (especially Needles) unless you invest a turn on a fate counter, (2) can be removed before you get to use it, and (3) doesn’t hit indestructible stuff (doesn’t usually come up, but is occasionally relevant, (4) requires 8 mana to use immediately (although being able to split 3/5 compensates), (5) doesn’t get a discount from Eye, and (6) can be Stifled. So if you expect a lot of Stompy, Oblivion Stone is a good option; if not, you’re better off with Dust.


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[cdnza]

I think there is room for both old Kozi & new Emmy indeed.
And you are probably right about World Breaker... I am just trying to find ways to improve our stompy MUs (I basically keep losing against Eldrazi stompy, and Steel / Moon stompy are bad as well).
I feel like Kgrips and Ratchet bombs are generally not enough.
Since we have to deal with Chalice and other suff, a (possibly colorless) board and some annoying Spyglasses post side, I want want to board in something like Oblivion Stone. Any thoughts about this one ?

Florian

I've thought O-Stone could be good. I'm not sure how I'd make room for it though. I didn't get to play this week so I'm hoping to be able to take the deck out at the weekend.

[Loxmatii]

Some questions for you:

You have 14 green spells and only 7 Forests. Do you have trouble casting the green cards?
How much does not having the 4th Candelabra hurt the deck?
How often is the maindeck Dark Depths helpful?
Have you ever tested little Karn? It's on my list of possible cards but it's a low priority because I think there's too much risk of exiling an important 1-of and not being able to get it back. I'm wondering if you have had that problem.


Hey (=

1. Very rare. in 90% of games it is ok. But i am thinking a lot a about 8th forest. yes

2. I have tested a lot 4 candelabras. And my tests shows, that 3 are very ok and i dont need the 4th one, thats why it is not in the watch list

3. in many games it is free win. They dont expect it from us. And because we are often play like control deck - fast win is a good plan. Plus i like 4 explore very much. Thats why DD plan often works

4. I tested it instead of 2 Libraries and recent test sessions shows, that Libraries are better then Karn. Because stable turn 2 and because many cards right now, not tomorrow. I am totally agree with u about a risk of exiling an important card, thats why i tried Libraries. And i am very happy with them right now

I continue testing sessions. Now my goal is to stabilize the sideboard

[Zotmaster]

Hey everyone! Just a reminder that I'll be doing 12 hours of 12-Post tomorrow as part of a 24 hour stream for Extra Life! I have a lot of the lists from here as well as a few (s)hit brews of my own. Come by, say hi, laugh at my misplays, and maybe even suggest some other crazy brews for me to try! The stream will start at 9:30 AM EST at http://www.twitch.tv/zotmaster . There's also a link to the donation page if you want to be awesome and donate: I'll be raising money for Rainbow Babies & Children's Hospital in Cleveland, Ohio. Hope to see you tomorrow!

[TheBoozeCube]

@k_omega:

Random question: How many Scion tokens would you consider adequate to carry with your deck?


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[ParisFlorian]

Never played more than 3.

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[k_omega]

I took the 8-Forest, 3-Wail version to FNM today, also swapping Promised End for Butcher of Truth. I faced Storm twice so it was a bad week to cut a Wail. Not having Promised End to cast for 9 mana came up once but did not lead to a loss. I used a different art for the 8th Forest to track when it came up, which revealed that it did not affect any mulligan decisions. Obviously the sample size is small though.


@k_omega:

Random question: How many Scion tokens would you consider adequate to carry with your deck?


I carry 4 now that I'm playing From Beyond. I used to use only 2. Even with From Beyond I've never actually needed more than 3.

[MasterHerC]

U/G Post reached the Top4 of the recent MKM Series (Europa) Zaragoza.

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-zaragoza-2018-legacy/

Pretty interesting.
Would like to know his matchups throughout the day.

[Drixx]

U/G Post reached the Top4 of the recent MKM Series (Europa) Zaragoza.

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-zaragoza-2018-legacy/

Pretty interesting.
Would like to know his matchups throughout the day.

Thank you,i just put simplier insight for Sunday Legacy event in Zaragoza

i started with 2 byes for 8 rounds so that was much easier to reach top .

3:0 round 3 Rug threshold (won 2:0)sided out 3 maps,1 vesuva,1 scroll rack and sided in 1 crop. rot.1 relic 1 needle,2 carpets
4:0 round 4 Goblins (won 2:0) sided out 2 maps, bojuka,3 flusters and side in 1 crop,1 needle,2 ballistas,2 krosans
5:0 round 5 BR reanimator( won 2:0) (first game opp mull to 4) sided out cavern,1 glimmerp.,3 show and tells,glacial chasm,1 map and side in 3 sanctity leylines,2 surgicals,1 crop,1 relic
6:0 round 6 Show&Tell (won 2:1) (second game opp mull to 5) sided out 3 show&tells,3 crops ,bojuka,1 cloud post and chasm sided in 3 krosans,2 surgicals,2 carpets,1 needle,1 relic
last two turns i just made to draw it
in top 8
quarterfinals Rg lands (2:0 won) sided out cavern,2 flusters,1 map,1 cloudpost 1 scroll rack and sided in 2 krosans,2 surgicals,1relic,1 needle
semifinals Grixis Delver( lost 0:2) sided out bojuka,2 crops,1 vesuva,1scroll rack,1 map and sided in 2 ballistas,2 carpets ,1 relic ,1needle . i can say he had everything both games started with two wastelands ,1-2 forces ,disruption spells and delver turn one flipped of course :)) otherwise deck was going properly and i enjoyed it a lot .

[MechTactical]

Thank you,i just put simplier insight for Sunday Legacy event in Zaragoza

i started with 2 byes for 8 rounds so that was much easier to reach top .

3:0 round 3 Rug threshold (won 2:0)sided out 3 maps,1 vesuva,1 scroll rack and sided in 1 crop. rot.1 relic 1 needle,2 carpets
4:0 round 4 Goblins (won 2:0) sided out 2 maps, bojuka,3 flusters and side in 1 crop,1 needle,2 ballistas,2 krosans
5:0 round 5 BR reanimator( won 2:0) (first game opp mull to 4) sided out cavern,1 glimmerp.,3 show and tells,glacial chasm,1 map and side in 3 sanctity leylines,2 surgicals,1 crop,1 relic
6:0 round 6 Show&Tell (won 2:1) (second game opp mull to 5) sided out 3 show&tells,3 crops ,bojuka,1 cloud post and chasm sided in 3 krosans,2 surgicals,2 carpets,1 needle,1 relic
last two turns i just made to draw it
in top 8
quarterfinals Rg lands (2:0 won) sided out cavern,2 flusters,1 map,1 cloudpost 1 scroll rack and sided in 2 krosans,2 surgicals,1relic,1 needle
semifinals Grixis Delver( lost 0:2) sided out bojuka,2 crops,1 vesuva,1scroll rack,1 map and sided in 2 ballistas,2 carpets ,1 relic ,1needle . i can say he had everything both games started with two wastelands ,1-2 forces ,disruption spells and delver turn one flipped of course :)) otherwise deck was going properly and i enjoyed it a lot .

Congrats on the finish! Excellent job. Did you win a candelabra or something ? :laugh:
Can you describe how you use scroll rack?

[Drixx]

Congrats on the finish! Excellent job. Did you win a candelabra or something ? :laugh:
Can you describe how you use scroll rack?

thank you, i didn't won any such a price like Candelabra that would fine won only credit that cover little bit my weekend but it's fine .

scroll rack can more fix your hand and very change your plan in the game you can exchange your no needed cards and fetch it out ,its more comperable with brainstorm sometime you can switch all your cards,also it can face chalice of the void or red blast and cc is fine with cloudpost and you can stay on colorless mana sometime it's necessary . It won me few matches ussually to keep ramp just finding lands and other spells keep on the top. In late game if you are under heavy discard and liliana of the veil that's worse but still you can switch your drawed card . I'm wondering why it was not used before also in other versions or maybe i just miss it here .

[MechTactical]

thank you, i didn't won any such a price like Candelabra that would fine won only credit that cover little bit my weekend but it's fine .

scroll rack can more fix your hand and very change your plan in the game you can exchange your no needed cards and fetch it out ,its more comperable with brainstorm sometime you can switch all your cards,also it can face chalice of the void or red blast and cc is fine with cloudpost and you can stay on colorless mana sometime it's necessary . It won me few matches ussually to keep ramp just finding lands and other spells keep on the top. In late game if you are under heavy discard and liliana of the veil that's worse but still you can switch your drawed card . I'm wondering why it was not used before also in other versions or maybe i just miss it here .

Thanks for your thoughts. I tested with it shortly after sdt ban. I tested with 3-4 (i think it was an ancient tomb build with WW and Plat) and I didn't like it back then. Prob. Two is the right number I got rack flooded too often I think. Your build also seems to support rack with cards like fluster one tends to hang back, which means one has enough cards in hand to use the thing. I really dislike when I top deck into it (no cards in hand), ponder still shines there, but a 2/2 ponder/rack split maybe the right balance for post. I'm not happy with 4x ponder either. Like you said Top would be the best solution.

[ksesler]

Drixx:
How happy are you with Leyline of Sanctity in your sideboard?
I see you brought it in against reanimator, and I am sure it does great against burn too.
Do you miss not having ratchet bomb in your sideboard? Pretty much all versions of Post I have seen have 2 in the SB.

Thanks.
Keith


Thank you,i just put simplier insight for Sunday Legacy event in Zaragoza

i started with 2 byes for 8 rounds so that was much easier to reach top .

3:0 round 3 Rug threshold (won 2:0)sided out 3 maps,1 vesuva,1 scroll rack and sided in 1 crop. rot.1 relic 1 needle,2 carpets
4:0 round 4 Goblins (won 2:0) sided out 2 maps, bojuka,3 flusters and side in 1 crop,1 needle,2 ballistas,2 krosans
5:0 round 5 BR reanimator( won 2:0) (first game opp mull to 4) sided out cavern,1 glimmerp.,3 show and tells,glacial chasm,1 map and side in 3 sanctity leylines,2 surgicals,1 crop,1 relic
6:0 round 6 Show&Tell (won 2:1) (second game opp mull to 5) sided out 3 show&tells,3 crops ,bojuka,1 cloud post and chasm sided in 3 krosans,2 surgicals,2 carpets,1 needle,1 relic
last two turns i just made to draw it
in top 8
quarterfinals Rg lands (2:0 won) sided out cavern,2 flusters,1 map,1 cloudpost 1 scroll rack and sided in 2 krosans,2 surgicals,1relic,1 needle
semifinals Grixis Delver( lost 0:2) sided out bojuka,2 crops,1 vesuva,1scroll rack,1 map and sided in 2 ballistas,2 carpets ,1 relic ,1needle . i can say he had everything both games started with two wastelands ,1-2 forces ,disruption spells and delver turn one flipped of course :)) otherwise deck was going properly and i enjoyed it a lot .

[Drixx]

Drixx:
How happy are you with Leyline of Sanctity in your sideboard?
I see you brought it in against reanimator, and I am sure it does great against burn too.
Do you miss not having ratchet bomb in your sideboard? Pretty much all versions of Post I have seen have 2 in the SB.

Thanks.
Keith

Hi,i changed force of will for leylines since sensei's divining top was banned when i used more blue cards in deck so that was little bit more easier decision leave my Fow'S and find something else.. now i'm quitely sutisfied with leylines and simply crucial card agains Grixis control,Eldrazis(TKs,new Emrakul or Oblivion Sower) and for harder matchups like almost all combo decks(storm,food chain,aluren,hide tide...) and burn as well. What's make me more scary is using assasin's trophy in future but happily now is that card in legacy not so favoured . Some bug Decks with discard,wastelands and trophies whould be nightmare so Fow's and even leylines don't help anyway.

With ratchet bomb versus explosives depend on situation and type of post you play for exapmple if you start and you know that your opp. plays Rug delver,goblin or D&T you can go first turn for basic and put explosives for one which ratchet can't and in your second turn kill vial,delver or lackey and so on . in late game also if i need to kill something with two or three mana cost that turn it's also better and for ratched bomb opp. can play little bit more around so i guess Ratched bomb is mostly used for chalice decks but or used in cc or green post because you can't reach bigger sunburst but i might be wrong . hope was helpful .

[amjw]

How many candles are a must for this deck? Already have the tabernacle and just bought 1 candle. Really want to make this deck but don’t want to put TOO much more money into legacy as I already have other decks to play with.

[cdnza]

How many candles are a must for this deck? Already have the tabernacle and just bought 1 candle. Really want to make this deck but don’t want to put TOO much more money into legacy as I already have other decks to play with.

I don't think UGx plays any candles at all, usually. I recommend joining the discord server to check out some different types of lists.

[Artemis]

How many candles are a must for this deck? Already have the tabernacle and just bought 1 candle. Really want to make this deck but don’t want to put TOO much more money into legacy as I already have other decks to play with.

UG usually plays 2-3 at best, mono G 4.

[Loxmatii]

Couple of days ago i won Big Legacy in Moscow- TopDeck Open
84 people

The list was:

MonoG POST

// 61 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

// 4 Creature
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 29 Land
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
7 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ancient Tomb

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sylvan Libary

// 10 Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
2 All Is Dust


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction

I have tested the list a lot. And pretty saticfied with sideboard

Matches were:

1) ub shadow 2-0
2) enchantress 2-0
3) dnt 2-0
4) miracles 2-0
5) merfolks 2-1
6) id
7) id

Top8- manaless dredge 2-0
Top4- dnt 2-0
Top2- elves 2-1

I was really lucky with pairings. And the deck worked ok. 4 explores in main and 4 tks in sideboard- were the best at this weekend (:

[quadich]

so are 3 candles really the way to go? i have been fond of drawing multiples in the past.

[Loxmatii]

so are 3 candles really the way to go? i have been fond of drawing multiples in the past.

Yeah. My tests show, that i dont need the 4th one. 3 is ok

[ParisFlorian]

How were the games against Death Shadow ? Not an easy mu imo.

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[sunlith42]

How did the elves match up go? I always have a hard time with elves, do you have any suggestions about how to play the match up?

[Loxmatii]

How were the games against Death Shadow ? Not an easy mu imo.

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it is normal mu, in my opinion. We need to needle wasteland. then candelabra and maze will do a great amount of job. They dont have stifles and mangoose, so i think that the match is in plus for us


How did the elves match up go? I always have a hard time with elves, do you have any suggestions about how to play the match up?

mainboard Chasm and dd help very much. In second game we have to find trini and stones to stop their speed. Obv, the mu is not easy,cause they always t3 kill us. So we have to think about them like about combo deck. Explores help a lot with disadvantages of chasm

[quadich]

so i am new to CG post. currently running jody keiths list -4 wail +4 explore.

[slayjay]

Couple of days ago i won Big Legacy in Moscow- TopDeck Open
84 people

The list was:

MonoG POST

// 61 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

// 4 Creature
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 29 Land
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
7 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ancient Tomb

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sylvan Libary

// 10 Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
2 All Is Dust


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction

I have tested the list a lot. And pretty saticfied with sideboard

Matches were:

1) ub shadow 2-0
2) enchantress 2-0
3) dnt 2-0
4) miracles 2-0
5) merfolks 2-1
6) id
7) id

Top8- manaless dredge 2-0
Top4- dnt 2-0
Top2- elves 2-1

I was really lucky with pairings. And the deck worked ok. 4 explores in main and 4 tks in sideboard- were the best at this weekend (:

I really REALLY like this list. But my meta has a lot of Storm. So is your sideboard plan not a little bit...optimistic? I see what you bring in and what is your plan aganst them...but as la long time lands player my one sphere often gets discarded or bounced and Storm just play their game...and TKS are often one turn too slow :-/ and Crop for Bojuka Bog and Surgical are the only things we can interact instantly and nly with the graveyard

[JackaBo]

Storm eats decks like this for breakfast. Put the Seers main and 4+ spheres in board. Crop for bog or tabby is good vs both empty and pif

[TheBoozeCube]

so i am new to CG post. currently running jody keiths list -4 wail +4 explore.

I would highly suggest the Wail over Explore. CG is fundamentally a control build. Speed is nice, but we don’t need it to win. Stabilizing is far more important, since we have inevitability in pretty much every matchup. Wail gives us real game against combo and provides efficient spot removal against fair decks.


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[TheBoozeCube]

I really REALLY like this list. But my meta has a lot of Storm. So is your sideboard plan not a little bit...optimistic? I see what you bring in and what is your plan aganst them...but as la long time lands player my one sphere often gets discarded or bounced and Storm just play their game...and TKS are often one turn too slow :-/ and Crop for Bojuka Bog and Surgical are the only things we can interact instantly and nly with the graveyard

This is why I run 4x Warping Wail. You can counter Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish, Therapy to protect a Crop, etc.. In a Storm-heavy meta, it might even be worth running 1x Ancient Tomb in the 75 so you can Crop into Wail or Sphere on T1.


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[H]

This is why I run 4x Warping Wail. You can counter Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish, Therapy to protect a Crop, etc.. In a Storm-heavy meta, it might even be worth running 1x Ancient Tomb in the 75 so you can Crop into Wail or Sphere on T1.

I think this is correct, but of course it depends on your local meta. I played K_Omega's build on Friday night for 4 rounds and Warping Wail wasn't great, but it definitely served it's purpose from time to time. A quick summary, which is probably generally right, but I might muddle a couple details:

Round 1: Patriot Blade
Game 1, he does some stuff that doesn't really matter too much, like SFM for Batterskull and resolves a Seach of Azcanta. I Wail the Mystic, get something (maybe Ugin, or likely it was an All is Dust) Forced, then eventually Cast Ulamog taking his White mana. He draws a Plains, Swords the Ulamog, but then I get Eye and there isn't much he can do.

Game 2: He holds up a bunch of mana in the early game, so I figure he has something like actual Counterspell or A V. Clique. I figure I can't really just wait forever if he has Clique though and I have a Glimmerpost to have mana for either, so I play the land and he Cliques me in response to the trigger. I lose the Emrakul, cast and Ugin which gets Forced. I forget how I shuffled, but eventually I redraw the Emmy 2.0 but he has Karakas. We play the Mindslaver game, until I draw Ulamog and exile it.

Round 2: BUG Foodchain.
Game 1, he stumble on Mana, gets Brainstorm locked and I All is Dust some Birds and resolve something big that I don't recall.

Game 2, I stumble on Mana and can't get anything going, the critical part being that I was holding Warping Wail when he casts Manipulate Fate but have no Colorless lands. He wins the next turn.

Game 3, he stumble in Mana a little early, but we both get rolling. I All Is Dust a few Birds and a Sylvan Library, but Eternal Scourge is Colorless. I draw Emmy 2.0, cast it, Mindslaver him, only to not be able to do anything, because his hand is Force, Food Chain, Hymn and he doesn't have double Black mana, :laugh:, luckily it doesn't end up mattering, I just beat him down with the Emmy.

Round 3: Death Shadow
Game 1: His hand seemed a little slow, he only draws one Wateland and I Wail at least one Delver. Some early stuff got Dazed, maybe a Candle or two. I think I ended up casting something big, pretty sure it was Ugin, removing his threat and a land and he doesn't have anything to come back with.

Game 2: This game was wacky and finished with me punting it away. Basically Emmy 2.0 gets Thoughtsiezed while a Delver beats me down. He actually Reanimates Emmy going to 1 and I draw Crop Rotation, only to realize I borded out Karakas like a dunce. I scoop out of frustration to myself, even though I still had all my Mazes which I could have gotten one of. Oh well.

Game 3: My hand is a bit slow, but so is his. I think I Wail another Delver, he lands Lili of the Last Hope and I draw Pithing Needle, with which I name Wasteland, rather then Lili. This might have been a mistake, but my feeling is that if I name Lili and he draws Watelands I lose anyway to whatever threat. Might be wrong. Of course Ratchet Bomb then shows up, but too late to stop Lili from ultimating before I get to 3, so I leave it at Zero and hold off a Delver with Maze. Ends up that I manage to Crop rotation for Eye, even though I only have 6 mana, thinking it is more likely to draw anything that taps for Mana, rather than get a Post but then need to basically draw another plus a Threat. I draw a Glimmerpost and activate Eye, getting Emmy 2.0 (the only one I had the mana to cast). I cast it, it gets Forced, but that puts him to 3. He likely had made a mistake not ulimating Lili once she was at 7, so when I 'Slaver him, I use the -2, get a Street Wraith, Cylce it, find Ponder, find a Fetchland and kill him.

Round 4: UB Tezz
Game 1, my mana fails to develop when he spikes a Scorcerous Spyglass off a Tezz activation catching two Candelabras. I had to copy his Ancient Tomb early to try to race him, which means I don't have the life to stabilize, especially since his board is nearly all colorless and I draw Ugin.

Game 2, I mull into oblivion, figuring that a very slow 7 isn't good. Turns out it probably would have been and I lose on a mull to 5 doing literally nothing because I can't find lands that tap for Mana.

The deck was very fun and aside the last round, ran very well. I think the number of Warping Wails is a meta call, but 4 didn't feel terrible, even if they didn't seem great all the time. Emmy 2.0 was the All-Star of the night, much hilarity was had with it. 3-1 was good enough to get a little payout, so I snach up a few decently priced GW paints with my credit. I haven't gotten to play much lately and the last few times I have were rough (pretty much all oh-fer's), so it was nice to have a generally winning night.

The only think that sucked was realizing I only own 2 Cloudposts...

[ParisFlorian]

I would highly suggest the Wail over Explore. CG is fundamentally a control build. Speed is nice, but we don’t need it to win. Stabilizing is far more important, since we have inevitability in pretty much every matchup. Wail gives us real game against combo and provides efficient spot removal against fair decks.


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Explore not only gives you speed, but also consistency (as a cantrip) and it makes your utility lands (Maze, Tabby & Chasm especially) way better. So it can also be seen as as defensive bonus. Plus it can help reach 7/8 mana faster to clear a blood moon, before you die to a bunch of goblins.
WW is nice in some meta. In mine (very few Storm, lot of control and aggro), it is clearly not so I cut it entirely and I do not regret it.

[ParisFlorian]

Emmy 2.0 was the All-Star of the night, much hilarity was had with it. 3-1 was good enough to get a little payout, so I snach up a few decently priced GW paints with my credit.

Thanks for the detailed report !

I am still unsure about Emmy 2.0. Sometimes you do crazy things with her (that you would like to be recorded on video), and sometimes she just do nothing but giving opp an extra card. So sometimes I maindeck her, sometimes I keep her in the board.

[ParisFlorian]

I copy here my last report from Discord. I was testing a red splash for Kozilek Return, Scroll Rack and EE.

1. Manaless dredge. We begin with G2 without sideboarding since I got a game loss penalty for arriving 10min late.... I am on the play, opponent discards a dredger and pass. Then I successively played 4 Bogs... he could not recover and I finished him with Ulamog. G2 I had a very good opener with Bog, Vesuva and a Tormod Crypt. The game was over very fast. 2-1.

2. Death and Taxes. G1 was quite easy, I drew well and my Maze + candle forced him to overplay, and then I could empty the board with K Return and finally land an Eldrazi. G2 he controlled my mana very weel and I did not drew any creature removal (and yet I play a lot). G3 was an epic and tough one. A vialed Fickerwhisp (targeting my Needle and allowing him to waste my lands), and a Revoker on Candle seriously delayed the victory, but it seemed quite inavitable. 2-1

3. AK Miracle. G1 was very long, as my clever opponent countered every important spell. There is little doubt in the issue here, but the enemy is time ! G2 was even longer, as I topdecked air (I mean lands but not the Eye) for like 10 turns. I finished with Emrakul. It was so long I proactively played Chasm, not to lose to a big Entreat. SBing note : REB was really usefull here, since it countered a Counterbalance which could have been dangerous. 2-0

4. Death Shadow. G1 : total control of his threats thanks to Maze + candle, and then a clean win with Kozilek into extra candle into another big guy. G2 was a nightmare, with my T1 needle dazed and then wasteland, wasteland, Hymn, Hymn, Snapcaster-Hymn... G3 began even worse with 4 wastelands in the 5 or 6 first turns, plus 2 Hymns again. And yet, I survived thanks to 2 Mazes and a candle, long enough for a crazy combo with K Return killing 3 flipped delvers, Kozilek v2 to draw tons of cards including crop rotations and candles for extra mana, trigger Kozilek to kill Anglers and Shadows and finally Emrakul. to perfectly end this beautiful game night :smiley:
2-1
I could not play Forcefield nor Drop of honey since they were thoughtseized each time, but they would have have been super usefull for sure. Instead, Mazes saved my ass more than once !
NB : this deck shadow deck is really, really strong, and not a good mu for us at all imo. I think I will try this deck a bit.

So 4-0 in the end.

On the whole this red splash is very interesting in a meta full of go-wide decks, K Return beeing particularly good in this shell (colorless, and triggers from GY). I also love Scroll Rack in combination with fetches. Engineered Explosives could be replaced by AiD or something else however.

[ParisFlorian]

My list (http://deck.tk/1u5o3NtJ) by the way

[H]

Thanks for the detailed report !

I am still unsure about Emmy 2.0. Sometimes you do crazy things with her (that you would like to be recorded on video), and sometimes she just do nothing but giving opp an extra card. So sometimes I maindeck her, sometimes I keep her in the board.

Yeah, the card is a little all-over-the-place. However, I think that overall, it's a good maindeck card, because many times, she was the only Eldrazi I could actually cast, because of her natural cost reduction. Trample and Protection from Instants is also pretty good versus White removal/decks (the non-Terminus kind).

[TheBoozeCube]

My list (http://deck.tk/1u5o3NtJ) by the way

Forcefield is intriguing. I picked one up for EDH a few years back, and it’s been on my maybeboard for Post for a while. What have your experiences with it been like?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ParisFlorian]

Good against any big creatures, eg eldrazi or Marit Lage, or against Infect (sometimes too slow in this case though) . Like Maze, it can force opp to overplay threats, and hence it combines well with Drop of Honey.

Envoyé de mon SM-G950F en utilisant Tapatalk

[bomberman32]

Hey guys, I’ve been on infect for 3 years and would like to try something new. I have the majority of this deck already but am missing some key cards. Obviously they are the Candels and Tab. I was wondering how essential they are for the deck, and what substitutions I could make.

[k_omega]

The Primeval Titan versions of 12 Post lean much less on Candelabra or Tabernacle than the C/g (i.e. mostly colorless, some green) builds that have been having the most success lately. Basically Titan provides the fast ramp instead of Candelabra. Primeval Titan builds suffered the most from the Top ban, however, since they have 4 additional awkward draws, so you will want the full 4 Brainstorms and Ponders and probably some number of Sylvan Library. You'll want 3-4 Show and Tells also.

U/G versions usually play 0-2 Candelabras and 0-1 Tabernacle. The Candelabras can be nice, but usually aren't necessary because the game plan is to get posts off of S&T -> Primeval Titan which is enough. Tabernacle can slow down some decks under the right conditions, but since you don't threaten their mana they will eventually power through Tabernacle. Any other card that buys time against creatures can reasonably substitute (e.g. Moment's Peace, Cyclonic Rift).

Wait to buy Candelabras until you're sure you like the deck.

[MechTactical]

After a long hiatus, I’ve checked the spoilers yesterday and was surprised to see a potentially playable card :eek: that got me excited. BladewingX and I have started to discuss the card on discord. I’m pasting the transcript below. What are your thoughts on this card and the new mulligan rule?

PrimeTime
http://mythicspoiler.com/war/cards/lazotepplating.html is this playable? Protects from wasteland, discard, storm,...? a creature on the board as a bonus?

BladewingX
the token is very helpful, seeing how everyone is going to replace diabolic edict with liliana's triumph
card seems VERY strong for us.
it combines all the utility cards into one:
-> discard protection
-> storm counterspells
-> edict protection
-> wasteland protection

Would still run a number of flusterstorms, though.
oh also chump blocks angler and the like for a turn

PrimeTime
Yep, I think they finally messed up and printed a card that’s playable for us. Gets around some nasty ultimates as well Jace, lily and so forth, hell it beats decay and trophy! Doesn’t beat PoP though. The new mulligan rule should also do wonders for us...still no top replacement, but it’s good to see a small ray of light at the end of the tunnel...

[TLK]

This craziness recently posted a 5-0. Rejuvenator is kinda cute for finding a Post and putting it directly into play.


2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 Elvish Rejuvenator
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Primaval Titan
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Ancient Stirrings

4 Crop Rotation
2 Punishing Fire
1 Through the Breach

2 Boompile
3 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
2 Treasure Map

1 From Beyond

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
2 Taiga
4 Vesuva


1 Faerie Macabre
3 Krosan Grip
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Life from the Loam
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thought-Knot Seer

[bomberman32]

Hey everyone, I am recently new to post and have been playing a list similar to the one above. I know this isn't the most popular version of post, but I would appreciate it if anyone has any boarding help. I know the general idea of when to bring things in, its the cutting of certain cards that I am unsure about. This is my current list

1x Bojuka Bog
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
3x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
2x Mountain
2x Taiga
2x Vesuva
2x Elvish Rejuvenator
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Walking Ballista
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Crop Rotation
3x Punishing Fire
1x Through the Breach
2x All Is Dust
4x Ancient Stirrings
3x Expedition Map
4x Pithing Needle
2x Treasure Map
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard:
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Kozilek's Return
3x Krosan Grip
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Surgical Extraction
3x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Thought-Knot Seer

[caprino]

Couple of days ago i won Big Legacy in Moscow- TopDeck Open
84 people

The list was:

MonoG POST

// 61 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

// 4 Creature
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 29 Land
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
7 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ancient Tomb

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// 2 Enchantment
2 Sylvan Libary

// 10 Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
2 All Is Dust


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction

I have tested the list a lot. And pretty saticfied with sideboard

Matches were:

1) ub shadow 2-0
2) enchantress 2-0
3) dnt 2-0
4) miracles 2-0
5) merfolks 2-1
6) id
7) id

Top8- manaless dredge 2-0
Top4- dnt 2-0
Top2- elves 2-1

I was really lucky with pairings. And the deck worked ok. 4 explores in main and 4 tks in sideboard- were the best at this weekend (:

I think this list is very solid.

Today 2 league 4 1

First league w vs Ur delver, big eldrazi, show and tell, maverick... Lose vs omnitell

Second league w vs elf, grixis controll, food chain, lands... Lose vs tes

Main deck i don't love 61 cards,i cut 1 expedition map.

[Captain Hammer]

The new Ugin and new Karn may have given this deck a shot in the arm. Two lists 5-0ed on mtgo using these cards

Titan Post
Creatures (9)
2 Elvish Rejuvenator 2g 0.02
3 Primeval Titan 4gg 22.86
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion 8cc 0.21
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 10 8.10
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 15 6.17
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Ugin, the Ineffable 6 3.70
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 8 0.07
Spells (11)
4 Ancient Stirrings g 0.20
4 Crop Rotation g 1.76
3 Punishing Fire 1r 0.06
Artifacts (10)
3 Expedition Map 1 0.12
4 Pithing Needle 1 0.88
2 Treasure Map 2 0.28
1 Boompile 4 1.31
Enchantments (1)
1 From Beyond 3g 0.01
Lands (26)
1 Bojuka Bog 0.13
4 Cloudpost 0.08
1 Eye of Ugin 0.63
3 Forest 0.00
4 Glimmerpost 0.04
4 Grove of the Burnwillows 13.16
1 Karakas 2.12
2 Maze of Ith 6.70
2 Taiga 1.22
4 Vesuva 2.24




Mono G Post
Creatures (4)
1 Walking Ballista xx 8.19
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth 10 1.91
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 10 4.05
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 15 6.17
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Karn, the Great Creator 4 28.44
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 8 0.14
Spells (10)
4 Ancient Stirrings g 0.20
4 Crop Rotation g 1.76
2 All Is Dust 7 2.92
Artifacts (13)
4 Candelabra of Tawnos 1 21.20
4 Expedition Map 1 0.16
3 Pithing Needle 1 0.66
2 Mirage Mirror 3 0.04
Lands (28)
1 Blast Zone 6.09
1 Bojuka Bog 0.13
4 Cloudpost 0.08
2 Eye of Ugin 1.26
7 Forest 0.00
4 Glimmerpost 0.04
1 Karakas 2.12
2 Maze of Ith 6.70
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale 2.43
1 Thespian's Stage 0.24
4 Vesuva 2.24
Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives x 28.99
1 Tormod's Crypt 0 0.59
1 Walking Ballista xx 8.19
2 Surgical Extraction bp 78.78
1 Ratchet Bomb 2 0.21
3 Sphere of Resistance 2 1.77
1 Ensnaring Bridge 3 19.66
3 Krosan Grip 2g 0.12
1 Jester's Cap 4 0.02
1 Mycosynth Lattice 6 3.51
75 Cards Total

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/competitive-legacy-league-2019-05-04#paper

[jmlima]

The new Ugin and new Karn may have given this deck a shot in the arm. Two lists 5-0ed on mtgo using these cards

Titan Post
Creatures (9)
2 Elvish Rejuvenator 2g 0.02
3 Primeval Titan 4gg 22.86
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion 8cc 0.21
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 10 8.10
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 15 6.17
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Ugin, the Ineffable 6 3.70
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 8 0.07
Spells (11)
4 Ancient Stirrings g 0.20
4 Crop Rotation g 1.76
3 Punishing Fire 1r 0.06
Artifacts (10)
3 Expedition Map 1 0.12
4 Pithing Needle 1 0.88
2 Treasure Map 2 0.28
1 Boompile 4 1.31
Enchantments (1)
1 From Beyond 3g 0.01
Lands (26)
1 Bojuka Bog 0.13
4 Cloudpost 0.08
1 Eye of Ugin 0.63
3 Forest 0.00
4 Glimmerpost 0.04
4 Grove of the Burnwillows 13.16
1 Karakas 2.12
2 Maze of Ith 6.70
2 Taiga 1.22
4 Vesuva 2.24




I was actually wondering about getting this deck for MTGO. That chap has managed 3x 5-0s with variations of it (search under player name). Is it a real thing, or did he just got lucky?

[k_omega]

I played in the large legacy event at SCG Con two weekends ago with the following Cg list:

4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Blast Zone
1 Stage, Karakas, Bog, Eye, Chasm, Tabernacle
3 Maze

1 Old Emrakul, New Emrakul, New Kozilek, New Ulamog
2 Old Ugin
1 All is Dust

4 Crop Rotation, Stirrings, Map, Candelabra, Wail
3 Needle

Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical
2 Trinisphere, Ratchet Bomb
1 Dark Depths, Spyglass, TKS, Sphere of Resistance

This is my usual list with -1 All is Dust, -1 From Beyond, +2 Blast Zone. Karn, the Great Creator was not proving so great at creating wins in my testing, and I wanted to freely name opposing Karns with my Needles without creating dead draws for myself. I expected a lot of Karn/Lattice decks, and Needle is the only meaningful maindeck interaction that can be deployed quickly. Blast Zone, on the other hand, is good at removing planeswalkers which this deck struggles to beat sometimes. Being serviceable (or so I thought) against regular creature decks is a bonus, as is being an additional land that enters untapped. I wanted to play two copies, and since it plays a similar role to All is Dust I cut one of those for the second copy. Dreadhorde Arcanist was so annoying in testing that I wanted all four Wails to have more removal for it. I had moved away from Dark Depths in the sideboard, but brought it back to have another angle of attack against the Blood Moon decks that I expected to show up to prey on the big colorless decks. The fourth Krosan Grip is there for the same reason, and to have more counterplay against Lattice.

Matches (5-3 overall)
1-2 vs. Belcher
2-1 vs. Karn Post
2-0 vs. UB Midrange
2-0 vs. Sneak and Show
2-0 vs. Dredge
1-2 vs. Goblins
2-0 vs. UW Miracles w/ Entreat
0-2 vs. Grixis Arcanist Delver

Match Reports:
Round 1: 1-2 vs. Belcher
Game 1: I am on the play and keep a 7-card hand with Forest, Cloudpost, Stage, and Crop Rotation. I decide to play out the Forest in order to play the Cloudpost next turn with Crop Rotation backup, and to have some interaction up since I have no idea what he's playing. His first spell is a Lotus Petal, then an LED which makes me very suspicious. He Land Grants for Stomping Ground and has enough to cast and activate Belcher. I make him show me the deck and it has nothing unusual.

On the drive to the tournament I was thinking about how no one seems to play Belcher anymore, so I'm wryly smiling to myself while sideboarding:

-2 Blast Zone, -1 Bog, -3 Maze, -1 Ulamog, -2 Ugin, -1 All is Dust
+2 Trinisphere, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Depths, +1 Spyglass, +1 TKS, +1 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Krosan Grip
Krosan Grip gets the nod over the sweepers because the Bombs give enough ways to deal with Goblin tokens that the only real danger is Charbelcher itself. Sometimes they can play but not activate it, and Krosan Grip is better there. They also might sequence incorrectly and allow you to grip an LED with a ritual on the stack.

Game 2: I keep 7 with Cloudpost, Forest, Grip, Wail, Stirrings, Trinisphere, Karakas. He mulligans to 6 and I lead on Cloudpost in order to either deploy Bomb, hold up Wail, or Stir for action. He does nothing on turn 1, so I play Forest and pass. He puts Belcher in play, I Grip it on my turn, then Trinisphere locks him out until New Emrakul eventually seals the game.

Game 3: I keep 6 with Tabernacle, Needle, Forest, so I can beat anything other than a turn 1 Belcher activation. Naturally, he has a Land Grant, a Belcher, and 5 rituals including Rite of Flame, so I lose.

Round 2: 2-1 vs. Karn Post
This person played at my local shop before I moved and he knows I *almost* always play 12 Post, but the *almost* part has him unsure. I remember that he usually plays Grixis colors - Storm, Delver, or control - and I assume he's playing one of the latter two since Storm is much more difficult to beat.

Game 1: I am on the play and keep 7 on the strength of a Cloudpost, a Maze, and a Warping Wail, with an Ulamog for the late game. I Stir and take a Vesuva, expecting to end up copying the Maze to hold of Delvers. Instead he plays a Cloudpost of his own. I figure he's playing the Planeswalker version, so I Vesuva my Cloudpost and pass back. At this point, if he plays another post I will have 9 mana from my 2 Cloudpost + 1 Forest, and can make an Eldrazi Scion on his end step to get Ulamog mana and exile his Cloudposts. He reluctantly plays a Glimmerpost, then a Karn, Scion of Urza making a Construct. I make the Scion, untap, and he scoops to Ulamog exiling his posts.

-1 Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Kozilek, -4 Wail, -1 All is Dust, -1 Maze
+4 Grip, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Dark Depths, +1 Spyglass, +1 TKS
The idea is to have answers to Chalice, Lattice, and Karn. Depths can sometimes steal wins against these decks since they can't really interact with lands and don't have flying blockers. TKS is there to snipe Karns or Karn-wish targets, and to put some pressure on their planeswalkers. Ugin stays in for the same reason despite being inefficient.

Game 2: I keep a 6 with Needle, Crop Rotation, Map, Cloudpost, Forest, Grip. It is vulnerable to Chalice and needs to find a threat, but shuts down Karn, has mana, and has two paths to Eye of Ugin if Chalice does not appear. It's a bit slow for the matchup, but I keep and scry away an Ancient Stirrings since I'm really just worried about Chalice. There is no Chalice, and I Needle Karn TGC. he has a Trinisphere, but I don't really care since my mana development is slow. I get to 2x Forest, 2x Cloudpost and Candelabras while he has 2x Cloudpost, a Grim Monolith, and some Sol lands. He gets an Ulamog before I find any real action, and this time my Cloudposts get exiled and I scoop.

Game 3: I keep 7 with double Cloudpost, Forest, Crop Rotation, Karakas. The idea is to let him power up my Cloudposts enough that I can rotate for Eye and then search for Ulamog on his end step, which should lock up the game. He plays a Karn Scion of Urza and a Walking Ballista, but neither of those stop my plan which is good enough to win.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. UB Midrange
This deck is basically Grixis Control without red, instead with more Lilianas and Vendilion Cliques. Apparently this person sat near me in the previous round and was not happy to see me as his opponent.

Game 1: I am on the play, keep 7, and lead with Forest + Candelabra. He Thoughtseizes and sees a hand with 3x Crop Rotation and lands, including a Cloudpost. I draw a Wail and play a Cloudpost. He Hymns me which takes away a Crop Rotation and an irrelevant land. I play lands while he cantrips, then on my fourth turn I play out a Stage with Forest + 2 Cloudpost + Candelabra in play. My hand is Wail + Crop Rotation, so when he Snapcaster-Hymns me I respond by rotating for Eye and Wailing away the Snapcaster. I turn Stage into Cloudpost, untap them all, search for Emrakul, untap and cast it for the win. I think he meant to Force the Crop Rotation but forgot to.

-1 Bog, -1 Blast Zone
+1 Krosan Grip, +1 Ratchet Bomb
From what I saw it's possible that he's playing Death's Shadow, or Grixis Control cleverly concealing the red mana. With this split I'm hedging against hate enchantments and True-Name. Ordinarily I would have brought out a Needle, but if he's playing Shadow then Needles will be critical so I keep them all in.

Game 2: I keep a hand with Maze of Ith in case he's playing Death's Shadow. I have several expensive cards in hand but am short on mana, so I topdeck while he deploys planeswalkers - Liliana the Last Hope and Liliana of the Veil. I start discarding my big cards since I have a Map in play that can fetch Eye -> Ulamog, and I expect the Ugins won't resolve anyway and removing LotV before it ultimates is paramount. I eventually topdeck the land I need, and the Ulamog unbelievably resolves. I attack for a chunk of his library, and he fails to find Back to Basics or an edict.

Round 4: 2-0 vs. Sneak and Show (with Omniscience)
Game 1: I recognize this person's name as someone who used to play a Grixis Reanimator build, so I mulligan with that in mind since that matchup is winnable with a fairly wide range of opening hands. I eventually keep a 6 with Maze, Forest, Cloudpost, and Stirrings but no graveyard interaction, which I decide to keep since Maze might be enough, I am on the draw anyway, and he might not be playing Reanimator. I scry a Crop Rotation to the top which is a huge relief. He plays Scalding Tarn and passes, I play Forest and pass, expecting an EOT Entomb. It does not happen, instead he fetches Volcanic Island and cantrips. I play the Cloudpost and pass, and after two more turns of land-cantrip-pass from him I decide he is probably playing Sneak and Show. He has 7 cards in hand, so I don't expect my Crop Rotation to resolve but it does, so I get Eye -> Emrakul the Promised End. I untap, cast it, and see that he has S&T + Omniscience + Griselbrand but not Emrakul. He is at 17 from fetches and has an Ancient Tomb in play, so I make him S&T the Omniscience using Tomb, cast Griselbrand to draw 14, then cantrip for a fetch to kill himself. This game was easily the highlight of the day.

-1 Bog, -1 Chasm, -1 Tabernacle, -2 Ugin, -2 Blast Zone, -2 Maze, -1 Candelabra, -1 Map
+2 Trinisphere, +4 Grip, +1 Spyglass, +1 TKS, +1 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Surgical
Having a Maze can sometimes be helpful, so I like to leave in 1 or 2. Surgical is for removing Show and Tell after successfully disrupting their first attempt, or for getting information about what to put in for S&T.

Game 2: He seems a bit too excited to keep 6, so I suspect either a fast combo or Blood Moon. I have a Trinisphere to stop the combo and a Krosan Grip for Blood Moon in my 6, so I keep. I play a Cloudpost, then Forest -> Stirrings -> Needle on Sneak Attack before he plays Blood Moon. I leave it in play for a while to constrain his cantrips, but decide to blow it up when I have the mana to Eye -> Ulamog. I Stir first just in case, and find a second Candelabra which is enough to cast the Emrakul 1.0 I have in hand.

Round 5: 2-0 vs. LED Dredge
Game 1: I keep 7 on the play and lead with Forest -> Needle on Wasteland. He plays a land and Therapies himself to discard a Thug. I have a Crop Rotation, but let him dredge, then cast Thug to flashback Therapy on himself. With this slow start, rotating for Bog shuts him down entirely apart from a hardcast Prized Amalgam. I have 6 turns before Amalgam kills me, but I manage to find the lands for Eye -> Emrakul.

-1 Maze, -2 Blast Zone, -1 Kozilek, -1 All is Dust, -1 Needle, -1 Candelabra
+3 Surgical, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Ratchet Bomb
This is just trimming on effects that are too slow or too low-impact in order to bring in more graveyard hate and faster answers to large numbers of tokens. Dredge usually ends up light on lands so Trinisphere can lock them out entirely. This is useful because beating the board-presence element of their deck is fairly easy, but not when it is backed up by disruption, combo (Dread Return), or raw speed. Locking out their anti-hate can sometimes be relevant too. The remaining Mazes are to deal with the lone Ichorids that often follow a graveyard wipe.

Game 2: I keep 6 with Surgical, Cloudpost, Trinisphere, Vesuva, Forest, Wail. He has a stronger start this time, but the dredges are not very threatening. I play Cloudpost, Surgical an Ichorid and pass so that next turn I can play Forest to hold up Wail and bluff Crop Rotation while still setting up for Trinisphere on turn 3. He flashes back a Therapy off a Narcomoeba, and I reach for my Forest to bluff Crop Rotation, which he names. He plays Faithless Looting into the Wail and passes. I play the Trinisphere and pass, being essentially in topdeck mode now. His lands are 3 City of Brass/Mana Confluence, so the Trinisphere basically becomes a beatdown card as he takes normal draws for some reason. I end up drawing all three Surgicals, with which I'm able to extract all his self-reanimating creatures and earn a concession.

Round 6: 1-2 vs. Goblins
Game 1: I sat near this person in the previous round and know what he's playing, so I keep a hand on the strength of Pithing Needle, double Cloudpost, and Ugin. I am on the draw and he has a turn 1 Lackey, but having no Maze of Ith yet I decide to play out the Needle on Wasteland. This Lackey turns out not to be all that threatening, but he does have two Rishadan Ports to mess with my Cloudposts. He casts a Cratermaker while I have a Needle and a Candelabra in play and chooses to destroy the Needle despite having no Wasteland. He ports down a Cloudpost using the one remaining Port and I topdeck a Vesuva which lets me untap all the Cloudposts to cast Ugin. Ugin runs away with the game.

-1 Bog, -1 Blast Zone, -1 Kozilek,
+1 Spyglass, +1 Depths, +2 Krosan Grip
Sometimes Marit Lage can get them. Spyglass is just an extra Needle effect for redundancy in the face of Trashmaster, and Grip is for Blood Moons.

Game 2: I keep 7 with Forest, 2 Cloudpost, Maze, Crop Rotation, and Candelabra. I play out some lands while he has just a Vial and little pressure, which makes me suspect Blood Moon. He plays one on turn 3, which basically shuts off my hand. A Krosan Grip off the top would unlock all the mana and Maze + Candelabra, but I have to draw one. On his next turn he drops a Warchief and a Piledriver and attacks for half my life total. The next draw step is not a Krosan Grip so I lose.

Game 3: I keep 6 with Ugin, Cloudposts, Needle, and Grip but no green mana. The plan is to let Needle get me there, but he has a Trashmaster to kill the Needle and a Candelabra with a Wasteland sitting in play. I offer up a second Cloudpost to get rid of the Wasteland so that I can hopefully topdeck my way into casting Ugin, preferably including a Forest so I can Grip his Needle that is shutting off Candelabra. The draw steps do not deliver.

Round 7: 2-0 vs. UW Miracles
Game 1: He seems convinced he is going to lose, so I figure he is playing UW control in some form. I have a hand with a Map, multiple Cloudposts, and a Kozilek so I keep. I eventually draw a hand full of threats and crack Map to get Eye -> Emrakul, which is almost too slow as he miracles Entreat for one fewer angel than would be required to kill me. Fortunately I can cast the Emrakul on my turn, and I bait him into countering something other than the Crop Rotation that gets Karakas.

-4 Wail, -2 Needle, -2 Crop Rotation
+4 Grip, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Trinisphere, +1 TKS
Ordinarily I would have cut a Needle and swapped a second with Spyglass to answer planeswalkers, but With Blast Zone I think that's unnecessary - better to blow them up especially now that some of them have static abilities. Ratchet Bomb is to answer tokens, Counterbalance, or B2B. TKS is there to snipe counterspells, and Trinisphere is there to slow down their cantripping for answers.

Game 2: A blowout. He Narsets into B2B and Force, but I have the Krosan Grip and bait him into using the Force on a Map instead of a threat. I eventually have just enough to Eye -> Emrakul and cast it while he has only five lands and a Snapcaster as permanents.

Round 8: 0-2 vs. Grixis Arcanist Delver
Game 1: I expect he's playing this deck, so I keep a hand with Blast Zone for Arcanist, Cloudposts, and a Maze for Delvers. He does not have an early Wasteland, but does find one for the Cloudpost the turn before I draw Needle. I have three green cards in hand but no Forest, and the lifegain from Glimmerposts eventually gets worn down.

-1 Kozilek, -2 Blast Zone
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Trinisphere
I saw Young Pyromancer and expect True-Name, and Ratchet Bomb is more mana-efficient at removing Arcanist than Blast Zone so it comes in. Trinisphere might not be necessary, but I wanted to see how effective it is at nullifying Arcanists.

Game 2: I mulligan to 4 and keep Stirrings, Crop Rotation, Maze, Tabernacle scrying a Cloudpost to the top. I play out the Maze, he plays a Delver. I play the Tabernacle as Wasteland bait to pave the way for Cloudpost, and it does get Wastelanded. I topdeck extremely well in terms of mana, drawing multiple Cloudposts, Glimmerposts, and Vesuvas to copy Maze. If not for a timely Lightning Bolt this would have been enough, as I would have topdecked a Glimmerpost to make 20 mana to Eye -> Emrakul, then search again for New Emrakul on the following turn. I never draw a Forest for either of the green spells in my opening hand.

Observations:

The summary of the tournament is that I got lucky in matchups where I didn't really need it and was not lucky in the matchups where luck is required. Part of the luck was seeing a lot of keepable 7- and 6-card hands, which is somewhat unusual.
Three of the game losses came from not finding green mana to cast green cards from the opening hand. I think now that 8 green sources is better than 7, and the recent 5-0 lists from MTGO seem to back this up. I am not sure yet whether 8 basic Forests is the correct choice. Perhaps some of them should be fetches or Nurturing Peatlands (to cast Surgical for 1 less life).
Blast Zone is good against planeswalkers because the decks that play them tend to be slow, giving you time to tick up Blast Zone without seriously compromising your development. For dealing with the creatures of a regular legacy deck, however, it is too slow. I frequently boarded out a copy in order to bring in better sideboard cards, and it never seemed particularly necessary or exciting when I did draw it. I think 1 or 0 copies is better than 2.
In that vein, I cut one All is Dust on account of the Blast Zones, and because it is very bad against the colorless decks. I saw fewer of those decks than I expected, and outside of the Goblins matchup I never felt that specifically All is Dust was required. However, this could have been a consequence of having good hands that didn't need a reset button like All is Dust.
Glacial Chasm never came up. I did play it under a Blood Moon against Goblins where it would have been good if I could destroy the Moon. But the real problem in that scenario is being able to reliably cast Grip, not access to Chasm.
I considered cutting Kozilek since it becomes terrible when Narset is in play. This came up once, but did not matter because I had other threats to cast. This kind of situation makes Walking Ballista/From Beyond more appealing.
I board out Kozilek a lot because it's basically just a draw spell in matchups that are about board presence. Old Kozilek would be better in these situations, but I think it's fine to go down to three threats if there are good sideboard cards to bring in.


Changes:

-1 Blast Zone, +1 Untapped green source that isn't a basic Forest. I'd also like to find room for the second All is Dust.
In the sideboard: -1 Dark Depths, +1 Spatial Contortion. I want more creature removal, and I think Dark Depths is too unreliable as a win condition against combo or Blood Moon decks. I would be happy to bring it in if I already had it in the sideboard for other matchups, but I see none that make me want Depths specifically. Depths was good against the Eldrazi Post decks, but those seem to have been mostly supplanted by the planeswalker versions which are faster and have better answers to Marit Lage.
+3 to 4 Karn, -3 to 4 other cards, and changing the sideboard. I'm interested in making Karn work because I often have only a few cards I want to board out but many more cards I want to bring in. Karn in a well-designed 75 could solve this problem. However, this style of deck can't make as good use of Karn as the other colorless decks for numerous reasons: 1) we're less interested in tapping out in the midgame; 2) we have no creatures to block for Karn, or almost none; 3) we often need to pull ahead when behind, rather than lock up a win when we're ahead (e.g. by fetching Lattice); 4) the earliest we can cast Karn is turn 3 compared to turn 2 from Ancient Tomb decks; 5) Ensnaring Bridge is worse for us because we often have big cards stuck in hand; 6) we want our in-play artifacts to stick around and turning them into creatures makes them more vulnerable, and finally; 7) we don't have any good cuts to make to play more than 1-2 Karns.

This may simply mean that a Karn board for us looks different than the typical Karn board. It might not even include playing Lattice.


Thanks for reading. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

[ParisFlorian]

Hi Kilian, great report, thanks.
I came to similar conclusions last weeks after like 12 mtgo leagues with a similar list (I mean before my testings with Hall of Heliod and the white splash).

First I really think we need that 8th green source. I mull much less with it, and it increases our ability to drop an early K grip post board (we can not afford to spend X turns waiting for that forest when they have a real clock). A few fetches do not hurt, either for deck thinning, shuffling under Jace fateseal or with a scroll rack on the table, or even go for a light splash (like red for Kozilek return and pyroblasts, which is very good to me).

Blast Zone is fine against PWs and TNN indeed, but it is quite slow. And 1 is enough, maybe in the side.

I have the same feeling about Kozilek v2 in this Narset meta. But in the same time he is often the best Eye target against combo.

And I hate goblins. I really do. :)

Envoyé de mon SM-G950F en utilisant Tapatalk

[ParisFlorian]

Oh I tried a Cg Karn build, but I think we can't protect him enough, and we are usually slower than sol lands builds (unless our crop rotations and candles aren't countered, but this never happens irl). However, our ability to easily find Tabernacle is very interesting for the total karnalattice lock.

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[Yakuza84]

Hi, Im still new to this deck and have, maybe noob's, question. You are including a lot of CMC1 cards (from 15 to 20). How you are dealing with Chalice on 1? From my experience is is usually shutting whole deck pre board. I was considering adding 2x Reclamation Sage as an out to those kind of things. Alos not sure is new Karn worth adding into the deck? 1x Candelabra, Lattice and Walking Balista in SB could be nice ones.

I was also thinking about replacing Expedition Maps with Sylvan Crying or Eplore. What do you think about that?

[MechTactical]

Guys, do we care for these cards at all?

http://mythicspoiler.com/m20/cards/golostirelesspilgrim.html


Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
5
Legendary Artifact Creature - Scout
When Golos, Tireless Pilgrim enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.

2WUBRG: Exile the top three cards of your library. You may play them this turn without paying their mana costs.

perhaps a "stompy" chromatic lantern or a cascading cataracts build?
It's a kind of "half titan" without the attack trigger, but it's fetchable with eye and could come down a lot faster due to the colorless mana requirment. Can be bounced with karakas as well. we could also set up the "ultimate" with scroll rack (or something) to finish a game early?

http://mythicspoiler.com/m20/cards/elvishreclaimer.html


Elvish Reclaimer
G
Creature - Elf Warrior
Elvish Reclaimer gets +2/+2 as long as there are three or more land cards in your graveyard.

2, T, Sacrifice a land: Search your library for a land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.

prob not the best card for UG, but shouldn't we at least discuss this new "magus of the crop?"

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Guys, do we care for these cards at all?

http://mythicspoiler.com/m20/cards/golostirelesspilgrim.html


Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
5
Legendary Artifact Creature - Scout
When Golos, Tireless Pilgrim enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.

2WUBRG: Exile the top three cards of your library. You may play them this turn without paying their mana costs.

perhaps a "stompy" chromatic lantern or a cascading cataracts build?
It's a kind of "half titan" without the attack trigger, but it's fetchable with eye and could come down a lot faster due to the colorless mana requirment. Can be bounced with karakas as well. we could also set up the "ultimate" with scroll rack (or something) to finish a game early?




With karakas its a good engine. The ult is not needed.

[k_omega]

Hi, Im still new to this deck and have, maybe noob's, question. You are including a lot of CMC1 cards (from 15 to 20). How you are dealing with Chalice on 1? From my experience is is usually shutting whole deck pre board. I was considering adding 2x Reclamation Sage as an out to those kind of things. Also not sure is new Karn worth adding into the deck? 1x Candelabra, Lattice and Walking Balista in SB could be nice ones.

I was also thinking about replacing Expedition Maps with Sylvan Scrying or Explore. What do you think about that?

Be wary of adding green cards. You'll have to also add more green sources to consistently cast them which cuts into the rest of the deck. Chalice on 1 is very bad, but I would play Ratchet Bomb/Engineered Explosives over Reclamation Sage to deal with it.

Explore is a fine card but it in no way can it replace Map. You are often looking for a specific land (particularly Eye of Ugin) and you can't rely on Explore for that. I wouldn't mind playing 1-2 copies if there were worse cards to cut. Sylvan Scrying would be more what you're looking for and I'd be interested to know how it goes for you. Just make sure to include extra green sources with them.

I think it's wrong to build this deck around Karn. If you have a good sideboard that happens to include a lot of high-impact artifacts anyway, then I can see playing 1-2 maindeck copies.


Guys, do we care for these cards at all?

http://mythicspoiler.com/m20/cards/golostirelesspilgrim.html


Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
5
Legendary Artifact Creature - Scout
When Golos, Tireless Pilgrim enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.

2WUBRG: Exile the top three cards of your library. You may play them this turn without paying their mana costs.

perhaps a "stompy" chromatic lantern or a cascading cataracts build?
It's a kind of "half titan" without the attack trigger, but it's fetchable with eye and could come down a lot faster due to the colorless mana requirment. Can be bounced with karakas as well. we could also set up the "ultimate" with scroll rack (or something) to finish a game early?

http://mythicspoiler.com/m20/cards/elvishreclaimer.html


Elvish Reclaimer
G
Creature - Elf Warrior
Elvish Reclaimer gets +2/+2 as long as there are three or more land cards in your graveyard.

2, T, Sacrifice a land: Search your library for a land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.

prob not the best card for UG, but shouldn't we at least discuss this new "magus of the crop?"

Golos: I think this card is good for Cg but would not bother with it in any deck that could play Primeval Titan. Cg can have problems getting through the midgame against creature decks and Golos being a good blocker might help there. Honestly I would play any reasonably-costed colorless creature with this triggered ability regardless of power/toughness. The activated ability is just a bonus, but I would like to try 1-2 copies of Cascading Cataracts to enable it and make EE better. Conduit of Ruin with Golos + Cataracts could be good.

Elvish Reclaimer: If the GSZ versions were still viable I would include some of these. It could be good in Cg too, but summoning sickness makes it an unreliable topdeck. There are also the problems of having superfluous lands to sacrifice, requiring green mana, and not being colorless. I would have to actually try it out before passing judgment on it.

[Yakuza84]

k_omega, Thanks a lot for your reply. Im not hiding that your list is an inspiration for me :)

So yesterday I played slightly modified one, taking into account your observations and suggestions.

1. I switched from Eldrazi version with Chalices, Smashers, Though-Knots etc into Land version and I think its slower and less aggressive than Eldrazi one.

2. I included 8 forests but very often was lacking green mana so cutting either Sylvan Scrying or Stirrings will be better

3. Have had 2 Reclamation Sages (vs. SnS with Omni as an MD out) but not sure is it good choice. I have copy it from a guy playing this in RG Lands but maybe in that shell its better

4. Wondering are Candelabras neccessary here mostly because of the price (real $$$)

Still have a question about Tabernacle and Glacial Chasm. Are they neccessary? Tabernacle w/o Wasteland is not so strong as in Loam or Lands shell and Chasm with his Cummulative Upkeep and sac effect on enetering is not appealing to me as well.

Epic moment was melting Dark Depths for mana playing against Pox and killing my opponent :)

PS. Can somebody link any solid list/s of U/G Titan Post? Maybe will try that one.

[k_omega]

3. Have had 2 Reclamation Sages (vs. SnS with Omni as an MD out) but not sure is it good choice. I have copy it from a guy playing this in RG Lands but maybe in that shell it's better.

Personally I would prefer maindeck Krosan Grip for this purpose since it is better against Sneak Attack and counterspells. With 4 Wails and 3-4 Needles, however, you're already better equipped to beat Sneak & Show than Lands so you can probably cut them entirely. If maindeck Back to Basics is prevalent in your meta and you don't have Candelabras, some maindeck Sages or Grips would be a good idea though.



4. Wondering are Candelabras necessary here mostly because of the price (real $$$)

I played Explores in place of Candelabras before finishing my set. Explore has some advantages and kind of provides acceleration like Candelabra, but obviously pushes you toward playing more green sources. The biggest loss is the synergy with Maze of Ith. Candelabra acting as both ramp card and "removal" spell is huge. Some people have been fine playing 3, I almost always play 4, and if you play 2 or fewer you will definitely notice the deck being slower and Maze being worse.



Still have a question about Tabernacle and Glacial Chasm. Are they necessary? Tabernacle w/o Wasteland is not so strong as in Loam or Lands shell and Chasm with his Cumulative Upkeep and sac effect on entering is not appealing to me as well.

We use Tabernacle for a different purpose than Loam decks. Since we don't have land destruction (apart from Ulamog), Tabernacle usually won't result in creatures dying. Instead you play it to delay or prevent creatures from entering the battlefield entirely. This is less dramatic but still useful, especially with Mazes. Maybe not worth buying a Tabernacle for, but if you have one it's worth a slot.

I've occasionally played without Chasm and usually don't miss it. It comes up against Mentor and TNN+equipment enough that I prefer to have one. If you need to cut cards for additional green sources it would be OK to start with Chasm and Tabernacle.

You might be starting to notice that many of the card choices interact with each other, so that if you shave copies on one the others become worse. Maze is better with Candelabra and Tabernacle, Tabernacle is better with Maze, Chasm is better with Candelabra (because you need fewer lands to cast big cards, so sacrificing one is not so bad). I'd recommend building the deck online where the cards are cheap or free and playing the fully-powered version online for a while, then if you like it build toward it over time while making reasonable substitutions for the missing cards.



PS. Can somebody link any solid list/s of U/G Titan Post? Maybe will try that one.

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19982&d=329614&f=LE

Technically this is a BUG list splashing for Abrupt Decay, but you can look around on mtgtop8 for other versions. This player (Tony Murata) occasionally posts here.

[Yakuza84]

Many thanks, still looking for proper Post version to match my playing style :) Have been testing eldrazi post (colorless up now).

Green seems to be more versatile and having better anwsers for hate pernaments.

Still question about Titan Post. I see several lists include Trickbind in their 75. What is the reason to do that?

[sunlith42]

Many thanks, still looking for proper Post version to match my playing style :) Have been testing eldrazi post (colorless up now).

Green seems to be more versatile and having better anwsers for hate pernaments.

Still question about Titan Post. I see several lists include Trickbind in their 75. What is the reason to do that?

Trickbind answers two of our most problematic cards, wasteland and tendrils of agony, and cannot be countered(mostly). Its also useful in lots of other spots.

[k_omega]

16th at the SCG Classic: http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/132102

Some interesting numbers in the maindeck and card choices in the sideboard. Can we get a tournament report?

[Griselbrandon]

Not sure, exactly, where I'm supposed to post for anything regarding Eldrazi Post. Was going to post here, but don't want to step on anyone's toes. Couldn't find a thread dedicated to that version of Post specifically. Thanks in advance for the response!

[ESG]

Not sure, exactly, where I'm supposed to post for anything regarding Eldrazi Post. Was going to post here, but don't want to step on anyone's toes. Couldn't find a thread dedicated to that version of Post specifically. Thanks in advance for the response!

Hi, Griselbrandon. That thread is here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30484-Primer-Eldrazi-Post-%96-Colorless-Eldrazi-Ramp/page16

[amjw]

Does Wrenn and Six have an impact in Legacy and if so, will it affect this deck with the ability to recur wastelands?

I know Pithing Needle already answers this but with the low RG cost of Wrenn and Six, could it be a problem?

[MechTactical]

Does Wrenn and Six have an impact in Legacy and if so, will it affect this deck with the ability to recur wastelands?

I know Pithing Needle already answers this but with the low RG cost of Wrenn and Six, could it be a problem?

Heh, I haven't played a match against a non-Wrenn deck in weeks. I played against Wrenn miracles yesterday, so you can imagine the length ppl go to jam those wrenns in every imaginable shell...Admittedly, I mostly play on xMage where ppl test all sorts of sh** (including myself)

Anyways, I don't find wrenn all that bad. I'm recently running a pithingless "UG strix" (fang) build and had good results against wrenn. Bojuka remains our go-to premium card for GY recursion.

Here's the list, which initially started as a natural order build, then went to a nissa mana dork build, and ended up running magus of the crop. While magus of the crop rotation has its downsides, I love jamming it with Nissa. It does turn on removal, but it is an uncounterable crop rotation once it becomes live. I've played a match against dreadhord guy. While he was durdling around with his bolts killing (2x bolt per magus) against my consecutive maguses, I managed to overwhelm him. And besides a 3/4 for G is very solid.

1 Glacial Chasm
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
3 Tropical Island
4 Cloudpost
1 Karakas
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Primeval Titan
1 Sylvan Library
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Glimmerpost
3 Crop Rotation
3 Ice-Fang Coatl
2 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
4 Mirri's Guile
1 Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
4 Elvish Reclaimer
1 Windswept Heath
2 Ponder
1 Cavern of Souls

3 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Krosan Grip
2 Veil of Summer
1 Lazotep Plating
1 Force of Vigor
1 Shifting Ceratops

natural order:

1 Glacial Chasm
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
3 Tropical Island
4 Cloudpost
1 Karakas
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Primeval Titan
2 Sylvan Library
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Glimmerpost
4 Crop Rotation
3 Ice-Fang Coatl
3 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Snow-Covered Island
3 Natural Order
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Progenitus
2 Ponder

[k_omega]

I played in the main event at GP Atlanta with this Cg Karn/Golos list:

4 Cloudpost, 4 Glimmerpost, 3 Thespian's Stage, 2 Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas, Eye of Ugin, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle, Blast Zone

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
2 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 All is Dust

4 Crop Rotation, Ancient Stirrings, Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle, Candelabra
2 Warping Wail
1 Surgical Extraction, Sylvan Library

Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Trinisphere
1 Walking Ballista, Tormod's Crypt, Pithing Needle, Golos, Candelabra, Ensnaring Bridge, Mycosynth Lattice

In the weeks leading up to the event, I started running into a lot of Reanimator and Knight/Loam decks on MTGO and saw a spike in people asking about it on the Legacy subreddit, and since it is cheap and well-positioned against the grindy Wrenn & Six decks I expected to see a lot of it. Planning to play for 15 rounds against a wide range of decks, I wanted to favor consistency and having a wide range of options. I decided this meant playing both Karn and Golos, but I found myself mulliganing a lot when devoting 6 or more slots to those cards, so I trimmed on one of each to make room for Sylvan Library (consistency) and an All is Dust (wipe the board of any weird decks I run into).

I discovered, somewhat by accident, that Surgical Extraction can be strong against decks that plan to beat you by assembling a wall of counterspells. They Force of Will an early Map or Crop Rotation, you Surgical the Force and it becomes vastly easier to resolve key spells 4 turns later. Obviously extracting Wasteland shuts off the worst part of Wrenn & Six and frees up your Needles to name other cards, and moving a Surgical to the maindeck increases the impact of that "sideboard" slot against the Reanimator and Loam decks I expected. I also didn't want to cut any of the Grips or artifacts from the sideboard or go lower on the number of graveyard hate cards, so something had to move to the maindeck. Surgical also has some fringe synergy with Karn, and whereas extra Needles might not do anything drawing a Surgical after a Needle gives you a possibly useful effect.

Matches (5-2-1 overall):
2-0 vs. Burn
2-0 vs. Goblins
2-0 vs. Merfolk
2-1 vs. Infect
1-1-1 vs. D&T
0-2 vs. 4c Loam
1-2 vs. 4c Control
2-0 vs. Bant Neoform

Match Reports:
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Burn
Game 1: I usually don't put much stock in guessing the opponent's deck by their style of dress, color of sleeves, and so on but this guy had a red shirt, red sleeves, a red deckbox, red dice, and a red playmat which arouses my suspicion. I decide to assume he's playing Burn since I probably won't beat Red Prison anyway, and keep a 7-card hand of Map, Candelabra, Cloudpost, Vesuva, 2 Forest, Crop Rotation. I lead on Forest -> Map, then he Chain Lightnings me. I draw New Emrakul, play Cloudpost and Candelabra. He double-bolts me on his turn, then I Vesuva the Cloudpost and pass after naturally drawing Glacial Chasm. He draws and passes back, so I crack the map to get Glimmerpost, which I play to gain 3 life going to 14. I Candelabra out the Emrakul, to which he responds by double-bolting me. I see that he has two lands, an Eidolon and a Price of Progress, while I am at 8 with 3 nonbasics. I make him crack a Sunbaked Canyon hoping to find a Bolt to kill the Eidolon (a mistake), but find another land. He takes his own turn, does not find a burn spell, so I attack him down to 5 with Emrakul and play the Chasm. He responds with the Price, but seeing that the damage is prevented he scoops.

-1 Bog, -1 Surgical, -3 Needle
+3 Grip, +1 Trinisphere, +1 Candelabra
I want answers to Eidolon and Sulfuric Vortex, and while Trinisphere can be good I want one in the sideboard to fetch with Karns. I bring in the fourth Candelabra to gain speed.

Game 2: I keep 6 with Forest, Crop Rotation, Glimmerpost, Trinisphere, Golos, and Candelabra. He starts with a Goblin Guide, showing a Map. I play the Forest, he plays a Swiftspear and suspends a rift bolt, so I take 3 and show another Map to the Goblin Guide. I rotate the Forest for a Cloudpost, untap, play the Glimmerpost, and slam Trinisphere. My opponent never finds a third land, so when Golos arrives to block he concedes.

Round 2: 2-0 vs. Goblins
Game 1: I am on the draw and keep a 7 with lands, Crop Rotation, and Golos. My opponent mulligans to 5 and plays Lackey. I decide not to rotate for a Maze since it's somewhat unlikely he has a threating goblin to put in due to the mulligan, so I play Forest -> Candelabra. He puts in a Ringleader off the Lackey, which finds a Matron and another Lackey, but he is stuck on one land so I rotate for Cloudpost on his end step, then copy it with Vesuva. He gets a Cratermaker with the Matron, and on my turn I play Stage, copy Cloudpost with it, then Candelabra -> Golos -> Tabernacle to wipe his board. He has a Vial to put in the Cratermaker, destroying Candelabra, and a Wasteland for the Tabernacle, but I have Karakas to bounce Golos which eventually gets the mana and Eye of Ugin to get Emrakul.

-1 Bog, -1 Surgical, -1 Map
+2 Grip, +1 Needle
Though Surgicaling a Wasteland can be very strong, I am on the draw and Goblins can create a lot of damage quickly, so one Wasteland might be game-ending anyway and I don't want to spend the life. I cut one Map since it is somewhat slow and can be picked off by artifact removal, and the two Grips are to hedge against Blood Moon or Damping Sphere.

Game 2: We both keep 7. He has a T1 Lackey, so I play Maze of Ith to entice a Wasteland before I play out Cloudposts. He has a Port instead, however, so Lackey connects to drop in a Matron, which fetches a War Marshal. I figure that means that he has a Piledriver already in hand or possibly a Cratermaker, so I play out a Candelabra to counteract the Ports so that the Maze can lock down the expected Piledriver. He Vials in the War Marshal, then plays Goblin Warchief to attack with 4 2/2 goblins. He Ports the Maze, but I untap it to Maze the Lackey. I play another Candelabra and a Stage, which allows me to Maze 2 creatures, including a Piledriver, the following turn so that I only take 10, going to 2. I am forced to play Chasm at 2 life, then Stage it in my upkeep before playing a Glimmerpost to go to 4. Since I don't have to hold up mana to untap Maze, I can start using it to crack Maps for more Cloudposts, and the Candelabras are enough to hold off his two Ports while I assemble just enough mana to cast Ugin and wipe his board. He does not find a Tarfire or haste creature to deal the final 2 (nor does he find a Wasteland in the entire game), so I get to untap and play Golos -> Glimmerpost to gain 6. I draw Karn, then Karn -> Candelabra, and eventually bounce Golos with Karakas, replay Golos -> get Eye -> untap Cloudposts and Eye -> get Emrakul -> cast Emrakul to win a very tight game.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. Merfolk
Game 1: I am on the play and we both mulligan to 6. I have Map, Stirrings, Needle, and lands but no Cloudpost. I play Forest -> Map, he plays Island -> Vial. I draw Cloudpost, but opt to play Stage so that I can play Needle (on Wasteland of course) through Daze, then Candelabra which does not get Dazed (or Forced). He plays a couple of lords, but the damage output isn't nearly enough to race me and I Candelabra out Emrakul.

-1 Bog, -1 Surgical, -2 Wail
+1 Needle, +3 Grip
The only truly threatening cards from Merfolk are Wasteland, Chalice, and Back to Basics. Grip answers the latter two, and I bring in the 4th Needle since I might not have time to Karn for it.

Game 2: He mulligans to 6, I to 5 keeping All is Dust, Candelabra, Forest, Stage, Sylvan Library. The plan is to let Library find a Cloudpost, then use Candelabra to Dust away his creatures and win from there. He opts not to Force the Library but does counter the Candelabra, which basically won me the game as I'm able to string together Tabernacle, then Maze, then Chasm to keep myself at 1 life against his Mutavault, Vial, Lord, and TNN. I'm light on actual mana-producing lands, but eventually I find Cloudpost and copy it with a Stage-Chasm on his end step to cast the All is Dust, which resolves. The leftover Maze keeps me from dying to the Mutavault, which gets exiled by Ulamog two turns later. He copies Ulamog with Phantasmal Image, which would have been good except that I draw Karn, fetch Candelabra from the sideboard, Eye for Emrakul and cast it for the win.

Round 4: 2-1 vs. Infect
Game 1: I'm on the play and keep 7, leading with Forest -> Map. I Warping Wail the first Glistener Elf, but the second Wail on the second Elf gets Dazed. I take a few hits, then play Chasm with Stage in play. We play draw-land-go for a while, then he cantrips into a Wasteland on Chasm. I copy it with Stage, so the Wasteland ended up being good for me because I paid less life overall. He can't break through at this point, so he scoops when I cast New Emrakul.

-1 Surgical, -1 Bog, -1 Map
+1 Needle, +1 Ballista, +1 Grip
I wanted to have at least one answer to a possible Pithing Needle from the opponent, so I cut a Map for a Grip. Since Karn can now get the Map, this is not that much of a loss. Also, Map is slow and I'm on the draw in a fast matchup. Krosan Grip can also take out Inkmoth Nexus, so I don't mind having a copy.

Game 2: I don't find Needle in time to protect the defensive Chasm from his Wasteland, and it turns out he is playing Wrenn & Six to loop the Wasteland. I have 2 basics, so I decide to wait for a possible Needle off the top, but he finds a lethal Invigorate first.

Game 3: He can't counter my T1 Needle, and a Maze stops him from casting pump spells, so I end up taking some inconsequential hits before playing Map -> Chasm. I turtle for a while, building up the mana to rotate for Eye -> Emrakul, attack, then Eye -> Ballista to deal the final 1 damage.

Round 5: 1-1-1 vs. D&T
Game 1: Several of my opponents have had to read my cards so far and this person is no exception. I play out a T1 Needle on Wasteland, then get beat down to 9 by Thalia, Mom, and some other creature. Ulamog, however, cleans up the threats and brings me to 19 after being Swordsed while my opponent only has 3 power on the board. I play Golos -> Eye, he recruits Palace Jailer to remove the Golos, but I get it back after becoming the monarch off an Emrakul hit. He sacrificed all his lands to the annihilator trigger, so when the jailed Golos returns I get Tabernacle to finish the job.

-1 Bog, -1 Surgical, -1 Map
+1 Ballista, +1 Candelabra, +1 Grip
The Karn builds have a much more difficult time against D&T than the Karnless versions, which get to play the full 4x Wails. Karn isn't particularly good against the aspects of D&T that are actually threatening to us and it can be difficult to cast through disruption, so I prefer to bring in the most impactful artifacts and then a Grip for possible Damping Spheres, or just taking out a Vial, Revoker, or equipment.

Game 2: I have Needle, Ballista, and Ulamog with mana to cast them, but leaning on Candelabra to untap Cloudposts. This plan runs into a Vialed Tomik, which slows down my threats by a turn. Ulamog exiles his threats, gains me 10 life via StP, then I put Ballista on 5 to clean up the remainder. He has a Cataclysm, however, and I keep Ballista (which goes to 2 to kill a Stoneforge), Needle, and Cloudpost. I have a Tabernacle and a Chasm in hand, so I need to topdeck mana to rebuild, then some threats. He manages to recruit a Palace Jailer to remove Ballista, which clears up his board but leaves him being the monarch. Monarchy gives him about 10 cards over the rest of the game, and although I eventually draw mana to Emrakul-Tabernacle away his two creatures, he has a Karakas and his cards in hand don't allow me to disrupt him. He has 2 Wastelands, which take out my mana after a Flickerwisp shows up, and I'm left topdecking to find mana for the Ugin in hand while using Candelabras to counter ports and turtling behind Chasm. I eventually get the mana, but he has a second Cataclysm so I scoop in order to win game 3 in the remaining ~7 minutes.

Game 3: I keep 7 with T1 Needle, Cloudpost, Vesuva, Ugin, and Old Emrakul. He leads with a Vial, which puts in a Tomik in response to my Candelabra activation that would have powered out the Ugin. A follow-up Port keeps me off of Ugin mana while I draw more Eldrazi instead of lands. I put a second Needle on Port, but he has a Flickerwisp and Wasteland to kill one of my Cloudposts making the net result almost the same. Time is called on his end step while I am rotating a Forest into the third Cloudpost needed to squeak out the Ugin through Thalia, so I wipe his board on extra turn 1. He bounces Tomik with his Karakas, but opts to Council's Judgment the Ugin rather than redeploy Tomik (the Vial is on 3 now). This lets me Candelabra out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn on extra turn 3, put him to 5 on turn 4, but I don't have the mana to Karn -> Map -> Karakas -> bounce and recast Emrakul so the match ends in a draw.

Round 6: 0-2 vs. 4c Loam
Game 1: He has T1 Confidant, I play Forest -> T1 Needle on Wasteland. I have the option to play Glimmerpost and Wail the Bob on my T2, but after drawing Karn I decide to Rotate the Forest for Cloudpost and Vesuva it in order to play Karn -> Bridge off a Glimmerpost next turn. Basically I see Karn as the way to win this game and I want to get it out of my hand before it gets discarded to Thoughtseize or Liliana. He plays a Liliana, we discard some irrelevant pieces, and I Karn for Bridge. Unfortunately he finds Abrupt Decays for the Bridge and the Needle, and I scoop to a large Knight of the Reliquary.

+1 Surgical, +1 Needle, +1 Grip
-1 Candelabra, -2 Wail
The plan is to lean on Karn and Golos to get me through the midgame after neutralizing Wasteland on the early turns, either by Needle or Surgical. The Grip is for Chalice or possibly a Sylvan Library. I reluctantly took out the Wails because I didn't see anything else that was worse (in retrospect, boarding out Maps and/or another Candelabra might have been better).

Game 2: I mulligan to 5 and keep a hand with a Golos that can be cast off the lands I already have. Unfortunately, the mulligan means that Liliana eats first the payoff (Ugin), then the backup Needle because I have no better options to discard. Golos resolves, fetches a second Cloudpost to bring me to 9 mana, but he has a Decay for the first Needle and then a Wasteland to put me back to 6 mana. I scoop to Wrenn & Six in order to eat.

Round 7: 1-2 vs. 4c Control (the snow build with Wrenn & Six)
Game 1: I keep 2x Cloudpost, Vesuva, Karn, Golos, New Emrakul, and Tabernacle. He is on the play and Thoughtseizes the Karn. I eventually deploy the mana, Golos gets Forced, Emrakul gets Snapcaster-Thoughtseized, and a Cloudpost gets Wastelanded. Jace fateseals a card to the bottom, but I draw Map -> Eye -> Ulamog which he can't stop.

-1 Tab, -1 Chasm
+1 Surgical, +1 Needle
If I don't get Wrenn-Wastelanded out of the game there is very little his deck can do to beat me in the long term, so the plan is to bring in all the Wasteland countermeasures and possibly Surgical some counterspells.

Game 2: I keep a slow hand with Surgical as the answer to Wasteland and play (too) conservatively, playing out artifacts with mana for Spell Pierce. He Forces a Map, which makes me think that he does not have W6 or Wasteland, so I Surgical the Force of Will, getting another copy out of his hand and confirming my prediction. Having not found a Cloudpost, however, I am too slow to develop while he Jace/Dacks into W6 + Wasteland. Surgical shows me a bunch of artifact removal and Thoughtseizes, but no Surgicals and no edict effects.

Game 3: I keep a speculative 7 that leans on the one Forest and the one Ancient Stirrings to find more lands, but has Needle, Old Emrakul, Map, and a Warping Wail to stop discard. He Forces my T1 Needle, then on turn 2 the Stirrings finds no land whatsoever so I take another Needle. My opponent doesn't do much of note, not even discard, so I suspect he kept a hand on the power of W6 and/or Wasteland. He shows both cards after I bait him with a Thespian's Stage, which I used to cast the second Needle which got Decayed on my end step. The only lands I draw for the rest of the game are Forests, so I scoop to W6 emblem.

Losing this match was my fault more than the deck's. I should have mulliganed for hands that have natural Cloudposts so that I don't have to cast spells to get the Cloudpost engine online, but I overvalued having answers to Wasteland.

Round 8: 2-0 vs. Bant Neoform
This deck had no Force of Wills, no Wastelands, and apparently no land hate of any kind. From what I could tell, the idea was to exploit Spell Queller with the 3-mana Teferi in order to eat all the opponent's spells (when Spell Queller leaves, Teferi stops the spell from being cast). I wouldn't be surprised to see a refined deck along these lines put up results in the near future.
Game 1: I mulligan to 5, but Crop Rotation for Cloudpost resolves and I draw more Cloudposts and Vesuvas to get all the necessary mana. Golos finds Eye, which attempts to find Emrakul but is stopped by Aven Mindcensor. I use a Candelabra to search twice with the Eye on his end step, and the first activation finds Ulamog. Ulamog removes the Mindcensor then gets Swordsed, but then Eye finds Emrakul which ends the game.

-1 Bog, -1 Surgical
+2 Grip
Game 2: I mulligan to 5 again and set up the mana while being attacked by an exalted Renegade Rallier, but Ulamog cleans up the threats and gains 10 life thanks to StP. Neither of us has much action, but I topdeck a bunch of non-Eye lands so all my copious mana counts for little. I eventually have to play Chasm to avoid dying to a horde of Ice-Fang Coatls, True-Name Nemeses, and other assorted creatures, and he sets up the Teferi-Queller combo so that I have to wait to draw multiple cheap setup spells in order to resolve any. After about 6 turns of no real action, I overload the Quellers to resolve Karn. Karn gets Golos, which gets Eye, which Candelabra untaps, and then I find Emrakul with Karakas already in play.

Observations:

I boarded out the Surgical and the Bog in almost every round. This is more due to the matchups I faced than anything else, but it means that I don't have any real information about how good the maindeck Surgical would have been in non-graveyard matchups since I never drew it.
I didn't miss the third Karn, though I also didn't play against any artifact-heavy decks. When Karn did show up, it pretty much won the game instantly. I think this is a consequence of only having 2 copies - they tend to only show up later in the game when I have the mana to immediately make full use of them. Whereas, with more copies they clutter the opening hands and you don't always have the mana for the fetched artifact to be impactful.
Golos was great every time I cast it. I wouldn't mind playing my usual 3 copies, but I think it is important to have as many opening hands as possible with a strong plan for the early turns, which Golos does not do.
I never actually used the Blast Zone. While I like having access to toolbox lands in the maindeck, if I had to cut a card from the current list it would be Surgical or Blast Zone.
The Karn board is fine, but probably could be trimmed. I fetched Golos twice, Candelabra twice, Bridge once, and the other artifacts never.
Glacial Chasm was involved in all but one match win (the exception being against D&T, where it would have won G2 if not for the second Cataclysm). Golos makes Chasm much better since it lets you accumulate resources more quickly while turtling, so you don't have to pay as much life.
3 maindeck Eldrazi were still enough. I did not miss Kozilek, though it would have been nice not to have to trust the top of the deck so much.
The London mulligan seems to completely remove any need for an 8th green source.


Changes:
Currently there are no changes which I am confident in making. I plan to keep the maindeck Surgical for a while and see how it performs. If it performs poorly I would replace it with a fourth Needle, and possibly put a Spyglass in the sideboard depending on how many slots I want to dedicate to graveyard hate. Additional Wails and/or Spatial Contortions would shore up the D&T matchup (in particular, removing Tomik), but that matchup is less important now that W6 is pressuring small-creature decks. Spatial Contortion would also be good against Delver though.

Thanks for reading. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

[Captain Hammer]

Once upon a Time seems like it could be quite strong in this deck.

Elvish Reclaimer also seems like a solid replacement for Expedition Map.

[Shevek]

Once upon a Time seems like it could be quite strong in this deck.

Elvish Reclaimer also seems like a solid replacement for Expedition Map.
I think Once upon a Time is only promising in MonoGreen Post. A list playing 4 Elvish Reclaimer, 4 Once Upon a Time, 4 Ancient Stirrings plus a certain number of GSZ and a creature toolbox seems solid there.



Thanks for reading. I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Thanks for the writeup, very useful, and congrats on the good score. I have a more general question: what variant of Post between UG Post, MonoG and Cg you believe is best positioned in the current meta? What differences among them you find in terms of matchups? I've been toying with Cg but I find matchups to be very one-sided, and I wondered if it's the same with others.

[k_omega]

Thanks for the writeup, very useful, and congrats on the good score. I have a more general question: what variant of Post between UG Post, MonoG and Cg you believe is best positioned in the current meta? What differences among them you find in terms of matchups? I've been toying with Cg but I find matchups to be very one-sided, and I wondered if it's the same with others.

Regarding the one-sidedness of Cg matchups, if you look back in this thread at my tournament reports you'll see a lot of 2-0 wins. This is because there are a lot of matchups where the opponent can't really stop our gameplan apart from Wasteland, which we have answers for, or a fast aggro plan, which we also have answers for and might be too slow anyway. The only matchups that I think are fundamentally unsound (i.e., matchups I always expect to lose 0-2) are Storm, Red Prison, and 4c Loam. Every matchup that doesn't fit into either of those categories can be won if you have the right cards in your 75, draw them, and know what you're doing with the deck. I think this breakdown applies to all the variants you mentioned, though some more than others depending on which specific cards you play.

Since the Top ban I have played Cg almost exclusively, dabbling for a while (3 small events) with UG Show and Tell versions. Before the Top ban, I played MonoG or Gw Titan lists almost exclusively, also playing UG Show and Tell occasionally. Broadly speaking, UG is good if and only if Show and Tell is good, G/x is good when you need a midrangey gameplan (assuming you can compensate for the consistency loss due to lack of Top), and Cg is solid pretty much all the time. While I will continue to play Cg, I think a well-designed G/R build could be better suited for the meta. Something like (leaving out specific numbers):

Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva, Stage
Taiga, Grove, Fetches, Forests
Eye, Karakas, other utility lands, Dryad Arbor

Elvish Reclaimer
Primeval Titan
Other green creatures (Oracle of Mul Daya, Reclamation Sage, etc.)

Wrenn & Six
Punishing Fire
Kozilek's Return
Crop Rotation
Green Sun's Zenith
Pithing Needle
Sylvan Library

Ugin
Big Eldrazi

You would have cheap sweepers, real removal for creatures and planeswalkers (Grove/Punishing Fire), a cheap value engine (Wrenn + Reclaimer), answers to Wasteland, and the usual top end. I would not bother with UG unless you are looking to beat Red Prison specifically., though I defer to people who have more experience with that version.

[Shevek]

The only matchups that I think are fundamentally unsound (i.e., matchups I always expect to lose 0-2) are Storm, Red Prison, and 4c Loam.
That's reassuring. My first outing with Cg Post on paper magic was a traumatic 1-3 drop, in which I lost to Storm, Red Prison...and 4c Loam :D

It's interesting what you say about GR. Here is a starting point. It misses the Fire+Grove package, but simply because I could not see how to make it fit into the manabase.

// 60 Maindeck
// 5 Artifact
2 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos

// 10 Creature
3 Elvish Reclaimer
1 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Dryad Arbor

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 27 Land
1 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

// 8 Planeswalker
3 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Wrenn and Six

// 6 Sorcery
4 Once Upon a Time
2 Green Sun's Zenith


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Artifact
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Walking Ballista

// 7 Instant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Kozilek's Return
SB: 2 Pyroblast

[k_omega]

I played the following Cg list at Eternal Weekend, going 5-4 in the main event (excluding a bye) and 3-0 in a subsequent side event:

Maindeck:
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost
3 Thespian's Stage
2 Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas, Eye, Bog, Tabernacle, Chasm, Dark Depths

1 Emrakul 1.0, Emrakul 2.0, Ulamog 2.0
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Golos

4 Crop Rotation, 4 Stirrings, 4 Map, 4 Needle
3 Candelabra
1 Relic of Progenitus

Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
2 Trinisphere
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Candelabra
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Golos
1 Mycosynth Lattice

In the weeks leading up to the event I had been getting mediocre results online with the Cg lists I usually favor (maindeck Wails, All is Dust, 3 Karns), so I decided to try the Elvish Reclaimer build that Aidan Reilly has done well with. I noticed that my wins were coming more from Thought-Knot Seer and Dark Depths than Reclaimer itself, so I grafted those cards onto the Ancient Stirrings base to create the above deck.

The RUG menace motivated two card choices here: the fourth maindeck Needle (usually in the sideboard) and the Relic of Progenitus. I was losing many games to Tarmogoyf and to Wrenn-Wasteland that could not be broken up by Bojuka Bog because they would use Wasteland and return it all on their turn. Bog would only work then if you have Crop Rotation, which means you have to have a spare Crop Rotation and mana to cast it, and it has to resolve. Relic can come down on turn 1, interfere with Wrenn's +1, control Tarmogoyfs, make Hooting Mandrills uncastable, and invalidate the Wrenn emblem. It even has the occasional synergy with Karn. I have been very impressed with this card in this matchup.

Matches (5-4 main event, 8-4 overall):
Round 2: 2-0 vs. Sneak & Show
Round 3: 1-2 vs. RUG Delver
Round 4: 0-2 vs. Pox
Round 5: 1-2 vs. BR Reanimator
Round 6: 1-2 vs. Lands
Round 7: 2-0 vs. UW Control
Round 8: 2-1 vs. Sneak & Show
Round 9: 2-0 vs. Esper Mentor
Round 10: 2-0 vs. Lands
--- Side Event ---
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Enchantress
Round 2: 2-1 vs. Aluren
Round 3: 2-1 vs. Burn

Match Reports:
Round 2: 2-0 vs. Sneak & Show
Game 1: I keep 7 on the draw and the opponent leads with Ponder off a Volcanic Island. Having too little information to decide what he's playing, I lead with Forest -> Candelabra and play out some Cloudposts with Crop Rotation for Wasteland protection. After the opponent cantrips for three turns without playing anything I suspect he's playing Sneak & Show and might just be gun-shy about casting Show and Tell against a Cloudpost deck. I play a TKS which takes a S&T leaving him with lands and fatties. The next turn I play a Map, then crack it on his end step to get the Dark Depths to pair with a previous Stage to win with Marit Lage.

-1 Tabernacle, -1 Chasm, -1 Bog, -2 Ugin, -1 Emrakul 2.0, -1 Relic
+3 Krosan Grip, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Wail, +1 Surgical
The idea is to have answers for Blood Moon and Omniscience, with Wail as some extra action against Show and Tell. Surgical is for extracting Show and Tell or to look at their hand before deciding what to put in.

Game 2: He cantrips on turn 1, I jam a Needle which resolves so I name Sneak Attack. He has Ancient Tomb -> Arcane Artisan, so he Forces my second Needle to prevent it from shutting off Artisan. However, this means that he has no answer for my Crop Rotation -> Karakas in response to Artisan activation so I am able to keep the Griselbrand tokens under control. I Grip a Sneak Attack while Maze and Karakas + Candelabra prevent him from ever creating enough tokens to actually win. Ancient Tomb brings him down to 4 life against a TKS, and eventually Ulamog seals the game

Round 3: 1-2 vs. RUG(B) Delver
Game 1: I know what he's playing and mulligan to Karakas, Needle, Relic, Crop Rotation, Maze. Relic and Needle on Wasteland resolve, but the Needle gets Decayed before I can build up the land base. Relic keeps a Tarmogoyf small but I eventually lose to Delvers once the Maze got destroyed.

-2 TKS
+1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Surgical
TKS can be underwhelming if Tarmogoyf gets large, and since I haven't shown Dark Depths yet I want to keep it in as a surprise win condition. If I had played Depths in game 1 I would have boarded -1 Depths, -1 TKS.

Game 2: My T1 Needle gets Dazed but he has no second land, therefore no Wasteland, so I get to deploy Cloudposts mostly unmolested. Ulamog exiles his two Delvers and eats a Force of Will, basically resetting the game. He eventually draws Wrenn + Wasteland but a timely Bog means only one of my lands is destroyed. Eventually I draw Karn -> Candelabra -> Eye -> Emrakul 1.0 for the win.

Game 3: I mulligan to 5 but have a T1 Relic and eventually get 2 Maze of Ith to hold off his Delver and small Tarmogoyf. We pass back and forth without any real changes; he draws no threats while I draw few lands. I opted to Vesuva a Forest on T3, leaving me with only the one Cloudpost I eventually drew and no other loci, so I'm treading water on 5 mana for several turns. True-Name Nemesis breaks the stalemate and I have 3 turns to find an answer before TNN + Wrenn becomes lethal. I draw Karn to animate a Candelabra into an attacker to kill the Wrenn, but he has a second Wrenn for lethal.

Round 4: 0-2 vs. Pox
Game 1: He has 3 Hymns which all hit good cards. I topdeck my way into Stage + Depths but have only one Cloudpost as my other lands, so I'm waiting to topdeck another mana source. Unfortunately my opponent has plenty of mana to find Wasteland with Mastermind's Acquisition to go with his Crucible, so I scoop.

-1 Chasm, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Candelabra, -2 TKS
+1 Golos, +1 Grip, +1 Wail, +2 Surgical

Game 2: I keep a hand with Cloudposts and 2 Needles, putting the first on Wasteland and the second on the Liliana (otV) that he Rituals out on his turn. In order to get cards out of my hand before more discard arrives, I play 2 Maps off my Cloudpost + Glimmerpost instead of playing 1 with mana for an activation. My opponent has his own Needle to shut off the Maps, putting me in topdeck mode. Eventually we get to a long stretch of draw-go, but before I'm able to Eye -> Ulamog he draws a Blast Zone to kill all my Needles, multiple Smallpoxes, and an Ashiok 2.0 to shut off the Eye. Once the Blast Zone kills the Needles I have no way to recover from the 2 Wastelands that take out my Cloudposts.

Round 5: 1-2 vs. BR Reanimator
Game 1: I glimpsed an Exhume before the game so I look for a hand that can beat Reanimator. I am on the draw and keep a hand with Karakas, Needle, Relic. My opponent has a Chancellor and loots a Griselbrand into the graveyard on T1, so I play Karakas and pass. He reanimates Griselbrand and Chancellor, and I concede in response to an Unmask to conceal information.

-1 Tabernacle, -1 Emrakul 2.0, -4 TKS
+2 Surgical, +1 Crypt, +1 Effigy, +1 Trinisphere, +1 Wail
Tabernacle becomes an outlet for them to repeatedly Ashen Rider me and since they only need 1 creature to win it is almost never a real obstacle for them. All my creatures that can be discarded and reanimated go out, except Ulamog because it can remove their creatures. Ugin stays in to kill possible Magus of the Moon, and Effigy comes in for the same reason. Trinisphere is to have a chance against Tidespout Tyrant.

Game 2: I keep a hand with Forest -> Crop Rotation, Relic, and Cloudposts so I keep. He goes for a reanimation and Rotate -> Bog blows him out, then Relic comes down and eventually the Crypt. He draws and passes for a few turns while I draw mana, but eventually I draw Map -> Eye -> Emrakul to win.

Game 3: I mulligan to a 6-card hand with 2 Map, Trinisphere, Karakas, lands, and Surgical. He Thoughtseizes the Surgical and is able to put a Griselbrand, Rotting Regisaur, and Archon of Valor's Reach into play so I lose.

Round 6: 1-2 vs. Lands
Game 1: He has an Abrupt Decay for my Needle on Wasteland, so I concede to Wrenn + Wasteland.

-2 TKS, -1 Depths, -1 Emrakul 2.0, -1 Tabernacle
+2 Surgical, +1 Grip, +1 Golos, +1 Candelabra
Grip is to kill Sylvan Library or any Needle or Crucible they might bring in. I saw Rishadan Port so the fourth Candelabra comes in.

Game 2: I lead with a Needle that eventually gets killed, but he does not find a Wasteland having instead 2x Exploration and lots of lands. He eventually gets Stage + Depths, but in order to Port my Karakas before making the token he can't Port me in my upkeep, so I get to my main phase with 5 mana for Golos -> Glimmerpost which keeps me out of lethal damage range. Field of the Dead arrives and complicates matters, but a TKS (taking one of two Abrupt Decays) and Golos provide enough defense that eventually I can Eye -> Ulamog to remove the troublesome lands and win from there.

Game 3: I keep a slow 5-card hand with Needle and 2 Forests, and put the Needle on Stage since he appears to have a fast combo hand. In addition to a fast combo, he also has Force of Vigor to kill the Needle and my Map so I lose to Marit Lage.

Round 7: 2-0 vs. UW Control
Game 1: I see Prismatic Vista -> Island -> Preordain so I assume he has no Wastelands and play Cloudposts and Stages accordingly. Some inconsequential cards get countered or Swordsed, but Map resolves and finds Eye -> Emrakul for the win

-2 Needle. -1 Dark Depths, -1 Crop Rotation
+3 Grip, +1 Surgical
Surgical is for messing with Snapcaster Mage and clearing the way for key spells by extracting Force of Will.

Game 2: I have a slower hand whereas he has a T3 Mentor which almost kills me, but he did not find a Force of Will to counter the Ugin which sweeps away all the monks and earns a concession.

Round 8: 2-1 vs Sneak & Show
Game 1: He has Island into T2 Ancient Tomb -> S&T -> Omniscience -> Griselbrand, which draws into Emrakul.

-1 Bog, -1 Relic, -1 Chasm, -1 Emrakul 2.0, -1 Needle, -1 Maze, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Candelabra
+3 Grip, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Surgical, +1 Wail
At this point I'm thinking he's playing Omnitell, so I board differently than I would against regular
Sneak & Show since I expect no Sneak Attacks.

Game 2: I lead with Stage->Map while he cantrips with a Volcanic. He cantrips for a while but finds no answer for the natural Stage + Depths.

-1 Surgical, +1 Needle
At this point I'm guessing he's playing regular Sneak and Show as opposed to Omnitell with Burning Wish.

Game 3: I Needle Sneak Attack and play TKS to take a Blood Moon while he is stuck on two lands. TKS eventually attacks for enough damage to earn a concession.

Round 9: 2-0 vs. Esper Mentor
Game 1: I get off to a slow start, made slower by a Thoughtseize taking an Ancient Stirrings. He cantrips a bunch, then Intuitions for three Accumulated Knowledge. I respond to the first AK by Rotating for Eye, which miraculously resolves. At this point my lands are Eye, Tabernacle, Forest, 2 Cloudpost so I am waiting to draw mana to start tutoring for Eldrazi. I draw a Vesuva before taking too much damage from monks, so I am able to Eye -> Emrakul 2.0 for the board wipe with Tabernacle. The actual Emrakul gets Forced, of course, so I have him cast and Swords all his threats from hand and we play on. I play Karn and fetch Lattice against an empty board, but don't have the mana to cast it on the same turn. He plays a couple of cantrips, so to bait out countermagic I fetch Candelabra with Karn and play it. It resolves, so I cast Lattice for the win.

-2 Needle, -1 Dark Depths
+3 Grip
He played a lot of nonbasic lands suggesting that he might not be playing Back to Basics, so I left the fourth Candelabra in the sideboard.

Game 2: I keep a hand with Cloudpost, Vesuva, and Candelabra. He counters some irrelevant setup cards but chooses not to counter a Crop Rotation to fetch Eye. Apparently his plan was to let me search and then drop Back to Basics after I tap out, and anticipating that I fetch TKS which does get the Force of Will. That paves the way for Candelabra to resolve, negating the Back to Basics. Eye -> Ulamog eats B2B and a Mentor, then Emrakul wins the game.

Round 10: 2-0 vs. Lands
Game 1: He has a land-heavy draw with a Sylvan Library, which finds enough mana denial to prevent me from reaching enormous quantities of mana, but I have a Bog and a Relic to prevent Wasteland recursion so it's all one-shot effects. I draw enough lands for Karn which puts him on the defensive, since now he has to keep me from getting the sixth mana or immediately lose. I get close a couple of timely Ghost Quarters, but I eventually draw a Stage to get Lattice mana. I got to exile Relic and recur it with Karn at one point.

-1 Depths, -1 TKS, -1 Emrakul 2.0, -1 Tabernacle
+2 Surgical, +1 Grip, +1 Golos
Since he appeared to be playing 4 Ghost Quarters, I figure he has few if any Rishadan Ports so the fourth Candelabra stays in the sideboard.

Game 2: I keep a really dicey hand of Cloudpost, Stage, Glimmerpost, Bog, TKS, Map, Surgical. Fortunately, in this game he is light on mana sources. He Gambles and then Wastelands the Stage, so I Surgical the Wasteland and see Loam and Ghost Quarter in his hand. His only other mana source is a Grove in play, so I play the Cloudpost to entice him to strand the Loam in hand so I can exile it with TKS that I will be able to cast. He obliges, and fails to draw a mana-producing land before I cast TKS and start attacking. Unfortunately he draws a Surgical instead to extract my Cloudposts, so the plan becomes TKS beatdown. He eventually Rotates the Grove into a Maze to stay alive, then Rotates for another Maze to stop a second TKS. I eventually wind up with 7 mana-producing lands and an Eye, so I search for Ulamog and wait for an 8th mana to exile the two mazes and attack for lethal. I draw a Forest on the next turn and win the game.

Side Event Round 1: 2-0 vs. Enchantress
Game 1: He groans upon seeing a Cloudpost, and once he casts Utopia Sprawl I know I have to get the Ugin in hand into play ASAP. The first Ugin wipe takes out only a few permanents, and he is able to mostly rebuild with an Enchantress's Presence. It turns out that he's playing an unconventional build with Doom Foretold and Dance of the Manse, with Oath of Kaya to take out the Ugin after the second wipe. TKS snipes a Dance of the Manse from an otherwise non-threatening hand, but since I still have no real threat I aggressively Rotate for Eye in order to eventually search for Ulamog. I don't lose on the following turn, so I fetch Ulamog and start eating his permanents. He scoops when I Rotate for Karakas to replay Ulamog.

-1 Tabernacle, -1 Relic, -2 Maze
+3 Grip, +1 Candelabra
Candelabra comes in since we might need a quick Ugin. There aren't any other great cards to bring in, but it is a good idea to leave in Needles for Helm of Obedience and Chasm for Luminarch Ascension (or Dance in this case) anyway.

Game 2: I keep a hand that has Ugin but can't cast it before turn 4 without help from the draw step (Forest, Crop Rotation, Stage, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Ugin). This can be too slow, but his build appears to be slower than typical Enchantress so I decide to keep. In fact, it turns out to be slow enough that I decide not to Rotate for a second Cloudpost on his end step to cast T4 Ugin, so that I can save the Crop Rotation to get Eye later. This line works out beautifully as I topdeck a third Cloudpost and had drawn a Candelabra earlier, so I get to end-step Rotate for Eye, then untap, use Candelabra to search for and cast Emrakul 1.0 then play Ugin on the extra turn. He scoops after losing all his permanents.

Side Event Round 2: 2-1 vs. Aluren
Game 1: I am on the draw and he Thoughtseizes away a Crop Rotation, so I figure he's playing Dark Depths and therefore Needle a Wasteland. After a few turns of him doing almost nothing I decide it's either Food Chain or Aluren. I cast a TKS and take some irrelevant creature, but he Brainstorms into Aluren and has Recruiter to fetch the missing Cavern Harpy.

-1 Bog, -1 Relic, -1 Depths, -1 Maze, -1 Map, -1 Tabernacle
+3 Grip, +1 Wail, +2 Trinisphere
Wail is for countering discard, but can exile a Harpy that has been shut off by Needle. I would normally prefer to keep Tabernacle, but Trinisphere is more important.

Game 2: He assembles a team of creatures while I TKS away some cantrips. The Thought-Knots keep his ground creatures at bay but I am taking 3 per turn from Strix + Harpy (which has been Needled) while defensive Strixes prevent me from attacking with my own TKS. For some reason he plays a Peacekeeper.
I have Eye + 13 mana including a Karakas, so I decide to Eye -> Emrakul 1.0 and hope to topdeck a mana source in the top two cards to take infinite turns. I do not draw one, so Peacekeeper saves six permanents. He has one turn to find Aluren and the rest of the combo before I Eye -> Ulamog to remove Peacekeeper, and he does not find it.

Game 3: He Thoughtseizes me three times in the first two turns, taking 2 Stirrings and a Trinisphere but leaving me with a castable Krosan Grip, so I'm not really concerned until he assembles 7 power worth of creatures. He casts an Aluren and attacks, so in combat I Grip it and fall to 6 life. He has no backup copy, so I Eye for Emrakul 2.0 and take his turn. I make him Recruit a Cavern Harpy and kill himself with it.

Side Event Round 3: 2-1 vs. Burn
Game 1: I know this person sat near me earlier but I don't remember what he's playing, so when he declines my offer of an ID I suspect that I'm in for a rough matchup. I keep a hand with Candelabra and T3 TKS, which turns out to be really good against his 1-land, Swiftspear, multiple 2-drop hand. I manage to snipe both Prices with Thought-Knots, then Eye for Emrakul 1.0 to win.

-1 Bog, -1 Relic, -1 Tabernacle, -4 Needle
+2 Grip, +1 Wail, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Golos, +2 Trinisphere

Game 2: I keep a hand with Candelabra and T3 Golos, expecting to Golos for Chasm. I am at 11 life against a Swiftspear, 3 untapped lands, and 3 cards in hand when I untap on turn 3 with 2 Cloudposts. I have Golos, Glimmerpost, Forest, Crop Rotation. So the problem is that whatever land I play gets eaten by Chasm, but I need both of them in order to win (Forest to Rotate for Eye, Glimmerpost to have mana to activate Eye). So I decide to take the risk of not getting Chasm, instead going for maximum lifegain by playing Glimmerpost, then fetching a second with Golos. He has Price + Bolt + Fireblast in response to the first lifegain trigger though.

Game 3: I lead with Cloudpost, get pecked by Goblin Guide, then play Glimmerpost -> Map, cracking it on his end step for another Glimmerpost. I play it, then TKS a Price seeing a hand of Eidolon, Chain, Spike. He has only two lands and opts to play the Eidolon instead of bolting TKS after I block a second Guide with it. I take some Eidolon damage in order to Candelabra out Emrakul 2.0, and I make him Chain and Bolt himself and suicide his creatures into mine, so that on my next turn Emrakul kills him and I'm out of Price range.

Observations:

TKS was spectacular all day.
Dark Depths helped close several games that otherwise would have gone on much longer, so presumably it led to wins that would have been losses without it.
Relic was excellent in matchups where it mattered. I was fortunate not to draw it in matchups where it would have been low-impact, but it was better when I drew it than Warping Wail would have been.
Some of the Karn board was not used. Karn was fine whenever I drew it, and I never thought that there was a specific artifact that I would like to fetch but did not have. However, the Karn package cuts into the slots available for matchups where a critical mass of action is required (Reanimator). Lattice earned its keep.
Several losses came after mulliganing to a 5-card hand of dubious quality because the 6- and 7-card hands were utterly unkeepable.
4 maindeck Needles was definitely correct.



Changes:

I plan to experiment with a bare-minimum Karn package of Golos, Candelabra, and Lattice plus some artifacts I would have in the sideboard anyway. In several matchups I would have liked to have more Warping Wails, so I would start by replacing Karn artifacts with those.
There were times when I struggled to bridge the gap from midrange to Eldrazi levels of mana. I don't see any good cuts, but a second maindeck Golos would help here.
I'd like a second Relic in the sideboard. Against RUG Delver, you're often forced to crack the Relic when you would rather leave it in play because the single-card exile got overwhelmed by several turns of fetch-cantrip-spell. A second copy makes both better.


Another Cg Post player made top 16 with a list involving Reclaimer, Karn, and Ugin the Ineffable. I watched him play against Food Chain and the list seemed OK.

Thanks for reading. I'll answer any questions.

[nimkee]

Thanks for the write-up! That's a rough start to the tournament, glad you stuck it out and managed to keep notes on all of the matches, that isn't easy. I'm looking forward to giving the deck another go in the post wrenn meta. What sort of changes do you think you'll make moving forward? I have yet to play with Golos at all. Upon looking him up, I can't say that I'm terribly impressed. How useful has the body been for you?


I played the following Cg list at Eternal Weekend, going 5-4 in the main event (excluding a bye) and 3-0 in a subsequent side event:

Maindeck:
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost
3 Thespian's Stage
2 Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas, Eye, Bog, Tabernacle, Chasm, Dark Depths

1 Emrakul 1.0, Emrakul 2.0, Ulamog 2.0
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Golos

4 Crop Rotation, 4 Stirrings, 4 Map, 4 Needle
3 Candelabra
1 Relic of Progenitus

Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
2 Trinisphere
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Candelabra
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Golos
1 Mycosynth Lattice

In the weeks leading up to the event I had been getting mediocre results online with the Cg lists I usually favor (maindeck Wails, All is Dust, 3 Karns), so I decided to try the Elvish Reclaimer build that Aidan Reilly has done well with. I noticed that my wins were coming more from Thought-Knot Seer and Dark Depths than Reclaimer itself, so I grafted those cards onto the Ancient Stirrings base to create the above deck.

The RUG menace motivated two card choices here: the fourth maindeck Needle (usually in the sideboard) and the Relic of Progenitus. I was losing many games to Tarmogoyf and to Wrenn-Wasteland that could not be broken up by Bojuka Bog because they would use Wasteland and return it all on their turn. Bog would only work then if you have Crop Rotation, which means you have to have a spare Crop Rotation and mana to cast it, and it has to resolve. Relic can come down on turn 1, interfere with Wrenn's +1, control Tarmogoyfs, make Hooting Mandrills uncastable, and invalidate the Wrenn emblem. It even has the occasional synergy with Karn. I have been very impressed with this card in this matchup.

Observations:

TKS was spectacular all day.
Dark Depths helped close several games that otherwise would have gone on much longer, so presumably it led to wins that would have been losses without it.
Relic was excellent in matchups where it mattered. I was fortunate not to draw it in matchups where it would have been low-impact, but it was better when I drew it than Warping Wail would have been.
Some of the Karn board was not used. Karn was fine whenever I drew it, and I never thought that there was a specific artifact that I would like to fetch but did not have. However, the Karn package cuts into the slots available for matchups where a critical mass of action is required (Reanimator). Lattice earned its keep.
Several losses came after mulliganing to a 5-card hand of dubious quality because the 6- and 7-card hands were utterly unkeepable.
4 maindeck Needles was definitely correct.



Changes:

I plan to experiment with a bare-minimum Karn package of Golos, Candelabra, and Lattice plus some artifacts I would have in the sideboard anyway. In several matchups I would have liked to have more Warping Wails, so I would start by replacing Karn artifacts with those.
There were times when I struggled to bridge the gap from midrange to Eldrazi levels of mana. I don't see any good cuts, but a second maindeck Golos would help here.
I'd like a second Relic in the sideboard. Against RUG Delver, you're often forced to crack the Relic when you would rather leave it in play because the single-card exile got overwhelmed by several turns of fetch-cantrip-spell. A second copy makes both better.


Another Cg Post player made top 16 with a list involving Reclaimer, Karn, and Ugin the Ineffable. I watched him play against Food Chain and the list seemed OK.

Thanks for reading. I'll answer any questions.

[sunlith42]

Gaming for Gains 9, tournament report. Mono G 12 Post
Played in a 74 person tournament on Saturday. Went 5-0-2 In Swiss and placed 1st.
Mono green feels really strong right now. Elvish reclaimer, Once upon a time, and golos are all great additions to the deck. The below is my a tournament report to the best of my recollection, I am sure I am leaving some stuff out and may misremember a few things. (I should take better notes)

Decklist:
// Spells
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Elvish Reclaimer
3 Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crop Rotation
3 Once Upon a Time
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Ugin, the Ineffable
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 All Is Dust

// 25 Land
1 Eye of Ugin
8 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Force of Vigor
SB: 1 Veil of Summer
SB: 1 Weather the Storm

Round 1 Vs Jeremy on UG Faerie depths, on the play
His deck was strange, it had spellstutter sprite, vendilin clique, and some new faerie that has the adventure mechanic, as well as the depths combo, crop rotation, and force of will.
G1: He durdels the first few turns, not doing anything while I play lands. Turn 3 I go to play a candelabra and he spell stutter sprites it. I make a few natural land drops and eventually crop rotate for Eye then cast emrakul.
G2: I keep a hand with a few forests, 1 vesuva, 1 glimmerpost and 2 ancient stirrings. I never find a cloudpost all game and die to a marit lage.
G3: Didn’t take any notes here, life totals show both at 20 then I won I guess…

Round 2 Vs Jason on Bant control, on the play
G1: Mull to 6, I kept a hand with 2 lands neither of which are green and a Once Upon a time. He gets a turn 3 mentor and kills me on turn 5, while I wasn’t able to setup due to lack of green. Probably should have mulliganed again.
G2: First few turns he ponders/BS, while I just make land drops. I play a reclaimer and rotate a few times. He plays oko and turns reclaimer into a 3/3 which I use to kill him. At some point I got an ugin the spirit dragon out to speed up the clock.
G3: play a candelabra on turn 1, play draw go for a few turns and cast Ulamog on turn 4 exiling 2 lands. He then plays Oko and turns Ulamog into an elk. But I learned from the judge hes still legendary, so I use a map to find karaks, bounce him and recast exiling Oko and his last white source. He then concedes.

Round 3 Brady on Burn, on the play
I got very lucky here, and my opponent misplayed multiple times. Letting reclaimers live longer than he should have or timing spell casts badly.
G1: Once again I keep a hand with no forest and only a UOaT to find it, and I don’t. This was a bad keep, I lose quickly.
G2: Evlish reclaimer is a champ in this round. I play a T3 chasm from hand at 12 life. I rotate on endstep to get a glimmer post to go to 14. Next turn I rotate on end step to get a stage and on upkeep I copy stage letting the original die. I spend a few turns juggling veuvas and glimmerposts to gain life while making land drops. On his turn he double lightning bolts my reclaimer, so I rotate for eye. On my turn I let chasm die, grab and cast emrakul while he is tapped out.
G3: I play an early reclaimer that is able to block a swiftspear once or twice and rotate a few times to get glimmerposts and keep my life up. Once I am down to 7 in response to a bolt I rotate for chasm, stopping his two attackers that turn as well. I keep the chasm for 2 turns. On my turn he double bolts the reclamier, so I rotate and get a glimmer post. This turn he cast 2 spells, I am able to cast Ulamog, exiling 2 of his 3 lands, and I then cast Weather the storm gaining me 12 life. Ulamog kills him over 2 turns.

Round 4 Nick on GWB elves, on the play
G1: he mulls to 5 and has a weak start. I play out a reclaimer and a few forests, rotating them for posts over a few turns. Then grab and cast emrakul.
G2: He T1 thoughtsiezes me and takes my crop rotate. I play a reclaimer for turn. I then plays glimpse and builds a large board of 8 ish elves but passes back. Turn 3 he glimpses again, apparently not finding a win con, and I cast weather the storm to go up to 38 life. Turn 4 he does some drawing off of elvish visionary until he casts a craterhoof. He attacks for 49 and I use reclaimer to get chasm, which he assassins trophies, so I use my thespians stage to copy it, and he assassins trophies that one as well. I die.
G3: I have a good hand with Ugin, candelabra and a few posts. He spends the first few turns making a modest board and drawing cards with visionary. On turn 3 I cast ugin and wipe the board. He saves 1 of his 2 dryad arbors and his visionary. I spend the next few turns bolting every creature he plays until I cast a walking ballista for 4, which he concedes to.

Round 5 Ross on Grixis delver, on the draw
G1: I play a turn 1 UOaT to find a reclaimer, and play it. Turn 2 I play pithing needle on wasteland. He doesn’t play a threat until turn 3 which is a pyromancer. EOT I go to rotate for my 3rd land in GY and get another post and he bolts my reclaimer(poor play on my part). For my turn I play a post, giving my 3 in play. He attacks for a few, next turn I play eye of Ugin and on end step I grab Emrakul. On my turn I play glimmerpost and cast Emrakul.
G2: He draws really poorly. I get a turn 1 reclaimer, turn 2 pithing needle on wasteland and a candelabra. Turn 2 he kills my reclaimer. Then he puts down a young pyro and makes a token. His next turn he plays a dreadhorde and TS me, in response I crop rotate for bog to exile all of his cantrips and the bolt. He takes my golos leaving me with all is dust and a 2nd needle. At this point I only have 3 lands in play, 2 cloudpost and a forest. I draw a forest for turn and play it(6 mana). On his turn he attacks for 6 then plays delver and gurmag, leaving him empty handed. I draw a glimmer, play it and cast all is dust. A few turns later I draw and cast ulamog.

R6: ID

R7: ID

TOP 8

Quarter finals: Ethan on DnT, on the play
G1: I get an early reclaimer and pithing needle on wasteland. I get to use reclaimer twice before he is swords’d. I cast an Ugin on turn 4 and wipe the board. He concedes after I bolt him for a few turns.
G2: Once again I keep a hand with no green and only a OUaT to find it. I don’t find it and I lose quickly to thalia + Brightling beats.
G3: T1 pithing needle, turn 2 candelabra and reclaimer. Turn 1 he plays an athear vial. Turn 2 he plays tomic, which I learned turns off candelabra. End of turn 3 I use krosan grip to kill vial, leaving him with only 2 lands. Turn 4 he plays a 3rd land. By turn 4 I have used reclaimer to turn my lands into 3 cloudposts and a forest. End of his 4th turn I turn forest into karaks. On my turn I bounce tomic and use candelabra to cast Ulamog exiling two of his 3 lands. The next turn I cast Emrakul and he concedes.

Semifinals: Ross on Grixis delver, on the play( the rematch from earlier)
He draws better these games, but same outcome.
G1: I mull to 6. Turn one pithing needle is forced. Turn 2 I play a pithing needle and a cloudpost. Turn 3 I play another cloudpost. EOT he bounces pithing needle using a faerie card with adventure, then double wastelands me. I die shortly after.
G2: I have a turn 1 pithing needle. Turn 2 I play cloudpost and candelabra into a daze intentionally because I have a second one. Turn 3 I play another cloudpost and the 2nd candelabra, then try to play map which he forces pitching daze. Turn 4 I use my 2 candels to play Ulamog exiling 2 of his 3 lands, he concedes.
G3: I mull to 6. I get an early pithing needle which is never dealt with. He plays T2 dreadhorde into T3 pyro. Turn 3 I play reclaimer which gets quickly bolted. He forces my T5 golos and now has 6 elementals. T6 he attacks me down to 8, I have 3 cloudpost, 2 forest, and eye in play. No cards in hand. I top deck glimmerpost, which is my best out I think. I gain 4, then grab and cast Ulamog exiling his pyro and dreadhorde, in response he bolts me to 9 and makes his 7th token. He attacks, I block 1 token and go to 3. Next turn I found a candelabra and used it to grab and cast Emrakul. This game I got pretty lucky, but I also could have used eye to find 2 golos and get either glimmerposts or chasm, so I had other outs if I drew worse.

Finals: Amir on RUG delver(with Oko and W&6), on the draw
G1: He has a slow start with no pressure. He plays an oko on T3 and makes a food. Turn 4 he makes is a 3/3 and starts the beat downs. Turn 5 or 6 I cast emrakul.
G2: He has a fast start, T1 delver, T2 hexdrinker, T3 pump hexdrinker to 4/4, T4 TNN. I die.
G3: I mull to 6 and keep a hand with 3 posts, Ugin, candelabra, and OUaT, no green source. And this time it works, I find my forest. I play forest into candelabra. T2 I draw needle and play it with a cloudpost. T2 he plays hexdrinker. Turn 4 I play my land and cast Ugin and minus to bolt hexdrinker. I spend a few turns bolting him, until hes at 9. He draws and plays oko then concedes. Final board state was ugin with 11 counters, and I had active eye with 15 mana.

Lessons Learned:
1. Once Upon a time, Elvish reclaimer, and Golos are fanatasitic.
2. Elvish reclaimer has singlehandedly turned some of our worst matchups more in our favor. I felt much better vs burn, elves, and delver.
3. Golos is great, let me list the ways hes better than primetime:
a. 1 mana less(very relevant in many games)
b. No green needed
c. Can be found off Eye
d. Can be bounced with karaks for multiple triggers and infinite chump blocking(in 1 game I cast him 3 times in a turn off of karakas and candelabras).
4. Don’t keep a hand with no green and only OUaT to find a forest, its bad…
5. Ugin the eneffable and Wurmcoil engine never really did anything, I think they should be different cards, just not sure what.
6. Main deck Thespian’s stage is great. Being able to copy chasm or a post is really useful.
7. Weather the storm needs more testing, I think it helps in 2 of the worst match ups, burn and Storm.

[Captain Hammer]

Now that Wren and Six is banned, how essential is 4 maindeck pithing needle? Lots of decks don't play Wastelands, Wasteland recursion won't be a thing anymore and the needles can come in post board.

[sunlith42]

Now that Wren and Six is banned, how essential is 4 maindeck pithing needle? Lots of decks don't play Wastelands, Wasteland recursion won't be a thing anymore and the needles can come in post board.

The deck can sometimes fold to a single wasteland, this may not be true anymore with elvish reclaimer, but I wouldn't go down to less than 2 - 3 maindeck. On the plus side, a pithing needle is rarely a dead card, if you can identify what your opponent is on quickly you can usually slow them down, or worst case just name some fetch lands. I once beat a stoneblade player by naming flooded strand after they went turn 1 tundra into ponder.

[k_omega]

Thanks for the write-up! That's a rough start to the tournament, glad you stuck it out and managed to keep notes on all of the matches, that isn't easy. I'm looking forward to giving the deck another go in the post wrenn meta. What sort of changes do you think you'll make moving forward? I have yet to play with Golos at all. Upon looking him up, I can't say that I'm terribly impressed. How useful has the body been for you?
The Relic definitely goes out. With Wrenn no longer pressuring decks full of X/1 creatures, I want to play more Wails which probably means cutting some number of TKS. A third Maze might be a good idea.

Golos is fantastic and I have been very happy with one in the main and two Karns to get the other one in the sideboard. Any card that tutors a land directly into play is strong and 5 mana is not that much for us, though that does mean you don't want too many maindeck copies since it will clutter up your hand in the early game. Since Golos is colorless, you can search for it with Eye making that land more useful when you don't have lots of mana. I've won several games by playing Eye with 7 mana, EOT search for Golos, use it to get another Cloudpost, then Eye -> Eldrazi. Generally the power/toughness are less relevant than the simple fact that it is a creature (can attack or block, or gain life via StP), colorless (can be found with Eye or Stirrings), and legendary (can be bounced with Karakas). However it is relevant that it survives Bolt (and can't be Fatal Pushed or Decayed) and can kill small creatures in combat. Consequently it is strong against multiple small creatures where Mazes would be weak. It is extremely relevant against Eldrazi Aggro because it survives combat with TKS (while also fetching a land, Chasm in particular). I've won a few games by repeatedly attacking for 3 or killing off planeswalkers with it, and any creature can be a chump blocker to protect Karns.


Now that Wrenn and Six is banned, how essential is 4 maindeck pithing needle? Lots of decks don't play Wastelands, Wasteland recursion won't be a thing anymore and the needles can come in post board.
Actually, I rather liked having 4 maindeck Needles in plenty of matchups besides RUG Delver. It's a lot easier to beat D&T, SnS, Depths, and other Delver decks when you have a early Needle you don't have to dig for. If I weren't playing Karns I would keep 4 in the maindeck, at least for a while, but with Karn I might move one to the sideboard.


Gaming for Gains 9, tournament report. Mono G 12 Post
Played in a 74 person tournament on Saturday. Went 5-0-2 In Swiss and placed 1st.
Mono green feels really strong right now. Elvish reclaimer, Once upon a time, and golos are all great additions to the deck. The below is my a tournament report to the best of my recollection, I am sure I am leaving some stuff out and may misremember a few things. (I should take better notes)

Lessons Learned:
1. Once Upon a time, Elvish reclaimer, and Golos are fanatasitic.
2. Elvish reclaimer has singlehandedly turned some of our worst matchups more in our favor. I felt much better vs burn, elves, and delver.
3. Golos is great, let me list the ways hes better than primetime:
a. 1 mana less(very relevant in many games)
b. No green needed
c. Can be found off Eye
d. Can be bounced with karaks for multiple triggers and infinite chump blocking(in 1 game I cast him 3 times in a turn off of karakas and candelabras).
4. Don’t keep a hand with no green and only OUaT to find a forest, its bad…
5. Ugin the eneffable and Wurmcoil engine never really did anything, I think they should be different cards, just not sure what.
6. Main deck Thespian’s stage is great. Being able to copy chasm or a post is really useful.
7. Weather the storm needs more testing, I think it helps in 2 of the worst match ups, burn and Storm.

Did you have a reason for playing Ugin the Ineffable in the first place? I've thought about experimenting with it but never found a card I wanted to cut for it so I don't know how it plays. Also, do you think 3 OUaT is the right number?

[nimkee]

Are people active on the discord channel? I tried adding the one way back on this thread but its timed out. Can I get a fresh invite?

[sunlith42]

Did you have a reason for playing Ugin the Ineffable in the first place? I've thought about experimenting with it but never found a card I wanted to cut for it so I don't know how it plays. Also, do you think 3 OUaT is the right number?

My thoughts were that it can clog up the board with 2/2s, its kind of card draw, and its a main deck answer to bloodmoon/magas that is reasonably castable if all I have are mountains.

[Seymour_Asses]

Anybody here still playing mono green in 2019? I've seen some lists using Elvish Rejuvenator pop up a couple of times recently and they look pretty cool:

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=24029&d=367602&f=LE

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-league-2019-12-21#dnsolver_-

[AngryBacon]

Anybody here still playing mono green in 2019?

https://deckbox.org/sets/2544439




1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cascading Cataracts
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
7 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
3 Vesuva
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Elvish Rejuvenator
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
2 Expedition Map
3 Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Once Upon a Time
4 Pithing Needle
4 Primeval Titan
3 Summoning Trap
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger




1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Veil of Summer




Testing this currently.

The 15th slot (Tabernacle) could be something else as I'm not really sold on it yet in this build. It has served me well in UG though. Could be Sylvan Library, Elephant Grass or Walking Ballista like in Orim67's list.

[Seymour_Asses]

https://deckbox.org/sets/2544439




1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cascading Cataracts
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
7 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
3 Vesuva
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Elvish Rejuvenator
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
2 Expedition Map
3 Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Once Upon a Time
4 Pithing Needle
4 Primeval Titan
3 Summoning Trap
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger




1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Veil of Summer




Testing this currently.

The 15th slot (Tabernacle) could be something else as I'm not really sold on it yet in this build. It has served me well in UG though. Could be Sylvan Library, Elephant Grass or Walking Ballista like in Orim67's list.

How's the Cataracts working out for you? I'm building DNSOLVER's list because I can't do Candles and it seems weird not to include a way to activate Golos, especially with all of the land tutors in the deck.

[AngryBacon]

How's the Cataracts working out for you? I'm building DNSOLVER's list because I can't do Candles and it seems weird not to include a way to activate Golos, especially with all of the land tutors in the deck.

Well, it's a bit winmore but I have tested too little to know for sure. What made me actually consider it is the color fixing for the titan. It's certainly great against control later in the game if you can resolve Golos (even if the first one gets removed, you don't need to tap it).

[Seymour_Asses]

Well, it's a bit winmore but I have tested too little to know for sure. What made me actually consider it is the color fixing for the titan. It's certainly great against control later in the game if you can resolve Golos (even if the first one gets removed, you don't need to tap it).
Ah okay. Do you think it's worth replacing a Vesuva for it?

[AngryBacon]

Ah okay. Do you think it's worth replacing a Vesuva for it?

Definitely, the lists that performed well had 4 copies of Vesuva, this is just a testing slot for me :-)

[JaceToTheFace]

Hey people, looking to get into the deck after watching several streams and seeing someone named "Angers" on the opposing end (The two videos I saw were GoblinLackey1 and Reid Duke playing some elves).

Angers's version appeared to play some copies of Punishing Fire, Grove, Retrofitter Foundry, TKS, Hour of Promise, Karn, and the usual 12ish post + Emrakul/Karakas looping. I'm not really sold on Retrofitter Foundry or Hour of Promise but everything else was interesting.

Does PFire "Post" have any specific advantage right now over the Cg version? I know the combo is typically slotted into decks where Loam shows up but that isn't really our gameplan.

[Rmosto]

Hi,
Long time follower of this thread but first time posting. I have been brewing with 12-post and find elvish reclaimer to be very strong in the G-colorless build. I am brewing with the now outdated strategy of using green-sun's zenith for tool-box utility and have been having some success. (Many 4-1s, but yet to 5-0 in the leagues) More importantly it has been a blast to play and tune. Below is my current list and I'd love some feedback. Currently I am testing the following flex slots: (Teeg,Thragtusk, and Mul Daya). I find Vet to be essential in a 3-4 GSZ build for the aggro match-ups like delver and stompy.

Below is a list for the MTGO meta with a fair amount of combo currently (I am seeing a lot of storm and trying to hedge a bit)

Maindeck

Lands (25)
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
5 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Savannah
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Maze of Ith
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Creatures (11)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
1 Primeval Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Elvish Reclaimer

Non-Creature (24)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Expedition Map
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Once Upon a Time
4 Pithing Needle
3 Crop Rotation

Sideboard

1 Krosan Grip
2 Warping Wail
3 Veil of Summer
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Return to Nature
2 Sphere of Resistance

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[quadich]

i just have some small notes (i wont be going into detail but wanted to reply anyways)

GSZ as engine is not good with OuaT since you cannot grab it. there is no synergy there.
crop should be a 4-of.
tabernacle is mediocre (speaking from experience)
you will want at least 1 thespian stage in the 75.
elvish rejuvinator seems better for your strategy than
oracle.
you need more finishers. maybe another ulamog or
ugin or kozilek (new one) for draw.
ouphe should not be in the deck
thorn of amethyst is better than sphere in this deck.
thought knot is a fixed slot in the board.

if you insist on reclaimer add a dark depths