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View Full Version : Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report



Rock Lee
10-22-2012, 01:52 PM
After throwing away my Top 8 at Jupiter Games the day before, I was determined to not punt this event and not get distracted. I am convinced to tweak the deck to mime my teammate Scott Hughes's. After Oct 20 and 21 events Scott only lost 2 matches, both to Burn, which I feel confident beating. So I make the swaps, and they were incredible all day long, several matches being won entirely on their choices.

Unknown Location venue. They oddly were holding unsanctioned Legacy, offering proxies to be bought for 5$ per. The venue required 44 persons for the admittedly very generous prize structure. The location only had tables for 48 persons so this seemed either highly optimistic or an intriguingly flawed business model. Regardless, they opted to go ahead with the posted prize support with 38 persons, which I am pleased about and we're off to the races!

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [B] Tropical Island
1 [ZEN] Island (2)
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [FNM] Cloudpost

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 [M12] Primeval Titan

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [US] Show and Tell
3 [GP] Repeal
1 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 3 [VI] Elephant Grass
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale


Round 1 vs. Belcher

Game 1. He wins the die roll and makes 16 goblins so I have 2 turns to assemble an answer. If I had had 3, ie gone first I would've, but not 2.

Game 2. I side in a bajillion cards and keep a hand of Chalice, Crop rotate, good lands, map, and top. Great hand. Chalice buys me one turn, then I can crop rotate for chasm in resp to belcher or tabernacle if he goes warrens. He reveals his hand the next turn of a turn 1 belch with no cmc zero mana sources. Must. Be. Nice.

So starting with a loss, that isn't good! My breakers will be a nightmare, meaning I'll have to win out the rest of the event to make Top 8. But where's the fun in me Winning my first (X-2) rounds then drawing my last two? no Drama. no Panache. Onward!


Round 2 vs. High Tide

Game 1. His deck poops all over him. I Show & Tell a Titan and he doesn't have an island nor combo pieces to go offf that next turn. He debates Turnabouting me on my next turn. But declines. I tutor and cast emrakul, and he turnabouts my creatures next turn, but I have Karakas for infinite turns. He shows me a hand of Pacts, Turnabouts and Time Spirals.

Game 2. He forces my turn 3 Chalice @ 1, but I have flusterstorm to back it up. my turn 1 Top feeds me a 2nd Chalice @ 1 and flusterstorm, and I have a hardcast titan on turn 5 with flusterstorm as backer to clinch it.


Round 3 vs. Zoo

I have a super friendly opponent who somewhat loses his mind when I play Cloudpost. Amusing guy though.

Game 1. I go down to 13 when I cast kozilek and his body goes limp with him only having 2 dudes in play and no swords/paths in hand.

Game 2. He gets a super early Meddling Mage naming Show & Tell and my hand was based off show & Tell emrakul. He squeezes it out the turn before I can hardcast a titan.

Game 3. He holds back for Reb on Show & tell for a long time, but I just cast green and colorless spells to victory. Kozilek again on turn 4 against only a kird ape for pressure so I take the match.


Round 4 vs. Nic Fit Hulk combo

Two slow yet potentially extremely explosive combo decks against each other. Fun.

Game 1. He gives me one blind draw before he goes all-in for Academy Rector and combo me out with pattern of rebirth, but my one mystery draw was Crop Rotation, my only out. Like a crazy miser and he can't recouprate from the hit in time.

Game 2. I'm starving for double colored the whole game, and would have been able to hide a Crop rotation on top of my library to win it, but on the turn where I have to Vesuva my trop and wait 1 turn he combos off. tragedy.

Game 3. Long and grueling, a Vesuva'd Gaea's Cradle buys me turns and repeal and tabernacle forces him to make hard decisions in sacrificing his xantid swarm and go all in on Progenitus as he has combo pieces in hand. Admittedly I did have a crop rotation at the time so I could interrupt the combo, so Progenitus was the wise choice. I plant a Glacial Chasm and ride it out until an absurd board state where he can't win, but I can't risk him combo'ing out after I lose glacial chasm. So I have to abuse the bejesus out of multiple candelabras, Karakas and Ulamog while in Turns to force him to combo out and sacrifice. Once I Ulamog the 7th time killing his final reactive board piece, I can swing in with annihilator 14 when he is at 2 life for the win.


Round 5 vs U/W Delver

Poor Rob's only loss of the day is against Scott Hughes, also playing Turbo Eldrazi, in round 1 and his shoulders do a visible slump when I play Cloudpost-go. Later in the round he somewhat lost his mind, showing me his hand and playing open-faced for the last half of game two since he was certain he had zero chance of winning. Oddly this was not the case, but I'll take any advantage.

Game 1. He is forced to play down Snapcasters and cliques as beats while I simply ramp to a bajilion mana and cast Emrakul.

Game 2. Aven Mindcensor early makes my life relative hell, but he has no real pressure despite Aven Mindcensor having a Sword of Feast and Famine and Umezawa's Jitte due to repeals. I look at 14 cards on one turn and finally gain 5 life to survive a last bird beat before kozilek starts being the friendly hugging Tentacle beastie that they are before I then gain another 6 life to un-reachable life totals for him.


Round 6 vs Alex bertoncini playing Bant.

There was only one person in the entire room that I wanted to play and wanted to beat badly, and it was Alex Bertoncini. In addition to Alex being banned for cheating by the DCI, has several articles written detailing his history of cheating in many (http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/unlocking-the-cheats-of-scg-player-of-the-year-alex-bertoncini/) many (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22772-Alex-Bertoncini-s-serial-cheating) top finishes, his personality is as welcoming and cordial as a porcupine with a genital rash. He single-handedly held up the tournament to finish cubing instead of submitting his decklist and during the time that I normally have my pre-game jargon and banter he ignores me and tells someone else at the event also playing that round for Top 8 how to propose illegal collusion offers without being caught red handed. He is only able to play at this venue because it is oddly allowing proxies and thus not sanctioned and his Ban that covers all of 2012 does not apply here. There are only 4-5 players in all of Magic that I want to obliterate mentally and have zero feelings of sympathy or camaraderie with, but Alex Bertoncini is one of them. Thankfully, I do exactly that. Karma loves those who love others, not themselves.

As we are shuffling up to game one I notice that his sleeves are INCREDIBLY marked. Beyond any degree of marking I have ever seen. Entire areas of them lifted into conch-shell curls of lifted plastic 1 inch high, or lifted/bent edges. I ask him to re-sleeve the especially beat sleeves, to which he begrudgingly agrees.

Game 1. We have a long game 1 that involves me Show & Tell'ing a Titan against his Double Knight of the Reliquary. To make the game even longer, I call a judge when he tries to adjust his shortcutted double-Knight of the Reliquary choices after tapping them as part of his "5 mana shortcut" from 3 lands but was still shuffling his library. (This is exactly the type of action that Alex Bertoncini was banned until 2013 for) The judge was not confident making a ruling so they spent just under 10 minutes to call up a judge to answer. The judge over the phone ultimately tells the judge on site to use their discretion, and the judge lets Alex choose both of his lands again, and his wastelands end up allowing him to actually have a chance at game 1. Feast and Famine pro-green backed Stoneforge Mystic takes me down in 3/4 dmg chunks exalted-dependent, but Titan constantly bogging Alex means his Knights are Grey Ogres. Once all 4 wastelands are gone I go for Glacial Chasm and keep windmilling Primeval Titans until I have 2 with a 3rd one in hand. He lands a Batterskull and equips Sword of Feast or Famine on it, and I have double repeal for his germ to swing in lethal.

He asks me after the match why I didn't tutor up Vesuva/Cloudpost instead of Cloudpost/Cloudpost, to which I told him I shouldn't have and I'm a bad player. I found it highly amusing that he didn't realize that you can't copy the 2nd land you're tutoring with Primeval Titan with a tutored Vesuva. I didn't punt, he was just worse than I thought.

As soon as the game ends Alex calls a judge and says to watch me for Slow Play. I balk at this since I was playing at a fine pace considering I'm making 4-5x the number of decisions a turn than Alex. Alex says that since I won game 1 it is in my favor to slow play and stall. I tell him that would be obviously cheating, to which he has no karmic or historic retort. The judge still shows up, which is fine of course. Alex asks another judge if they can have an additional time extension despite us being given an equal amount of time of our ruling, and the judge gives us 5 more minutes. Again, this time extension favors him, as he even admitted obviously looking to gain every illegal advantage he can in this game.

Game 2. He as a slow hand of turn 2 Stoneforge Mystic for Feast or Famine. I have a not-slow hand of Show & Tell Primeval titan, he loses to me getting 4 Cloudposts and casting Emrakul from hand on turn 4.

Karma is a wonderful goddess.


Top 8 vs. Bug

I played against this fine gentlemen during the 40 free minutes I had after my Round 1 belcher loss as he was genuinely interested in what his matchup was against Turbo Eldrazi. I told him it was pretty heinous, but sure. After 6 games in those 40 minutes he had only won one of them, affirming my declaration.

Game 1. He has early inquisitions on my Show & Tell and then Candelabra of Tawnos backed with a deathrite shaman and sylvan library. I repeal-cantrip off his sylvan library before he looks at it twice and he forces a Show & Tell. His first look with sylvan library nets him 3 cards, the second 2 with him at 4 life, but with so many dead removal cards he is more gleening than improving and my Ulamog resolves, swatting down a delver and able to block one of the two Goyfs. Deathrite shaman is still plugging away at me, but the lowest I go is to 12 with Glimmerposts gaining me 7 life this game and Ulamog clinches it.

Game 2. I have a stable hand of Cloudposts, Emrakul, Crop rotation, Show & Tell, which has Show & tell get inquisition'd away. I draw a map, then top, and I get two free draws while he is attempting to rush me with double tarmogoyf 2/3's and a deathrite shaman. On my 3rd draw he taps out to Vendillion Clique me in draw step, and I reveal GSZ and Primeval TItan as my bonus cards, with the mana to cast both. He takes Titan as it is 1 mana left, so I tap out for GSZ, he jokes that he has the Daze, but doesn't, and the lifegain ends the game for him with the threat of Emrakul in hand even amidst removal for the titan, which he didn't have.


Scott Hughes and I both make it to the Top 4, get paired, and agree to Split the prizes for a glorious victory of 50% of the prize going to Turbo Eldrazi in the event!

Holiday
10-22-2012, 02:43 PM
Nice report. This deck looks like a lot of fun to pilot.

Out of curiosity, did you get to use Venser, Shaper Savant? What matches do you typically bring him in for?

Rock Lee
10-22-2012, 02:52 PM
Nice report. This deck looks like a lot of fun to pilot.

Out of curiosity, did you get to use Venser, Shaper Savant? What matches do you typically bring him in for?

The deck is an absolute BLAST to play. Every person I have handed my 2nd copy of it to has gone on to make another copy for themselves and said that it was the most fun deck they have every played in legacy. The fact that it is competitive is only gravy.

The major reasons he is there is for any Show & tell based decks, any decks where I side out Show & Tell (such as decks running hymn), or slow-er combo decks/ win-cons that lose to his inevitability or needed bounce. I sided him in against High Tide, where he is an absolute beast-machine-awesometown-house. I also debated it heavily against Nic Fit Hulk Combo, but ultimately figured that interrupting the combo for one turn wasn't good enough and Venser was too clunky when I often needed faster answers.

Venser is amazing though. Love him to bits. It pains me that he is 50$ in foil because of EDH silliness! Same with my poor baby Eldrazis.

Holiday
10-22-2012, 03:32 PM
Alex Bertoncini, the name looked familiar but I've been out of the magic scene for a year or two now. So I googled him... Let's just say it would suck if you googled yourself and the first page is basically about you cheating hahaha.

dunk
10-22-2012, 04:13 PM
The Legend lives on :)

KevinTrudeau
10-22-2012, 04:22 PM
He asks me after the match why I didn't tutor up Vesuva/Cloudpost instead of Cloudpost/Cloudpost, to which I told him I shouldn't have and I'm a bad player. I found it highly amusing that he didn't realize that you can't copy the 2nd land you're tutoring with Primeval Titan with a tutored Vesuva. I didn't punt, he was just worse than I thought

He (probably) knew it wouldn't work; he was (probably) suggesting it so you'd do it. But yeah, SCG PotY winners don't just show up and play with (purportedly) inch-long sleeve protrusions.

What a character.

Julian23
10-22-2012, 04:51 PM
He (probably) knew it wouldn't work; he was (probably) suggesting it so you'd do it.

Exactly what I thought. :wink:

While I also hate Bertonicini for what he has done, a time extension is never an "illegal advantage". Whenever I read your tournament reports I like what I see, but some things always come off as pretty biased. I also always ask for time extensions when I'm down 0-1 and had a judge call during game1, no biggie. If the judge agrees to a time extension, there has to be a reason - if he can't state one, you should definitely appeal.

Rock Lee
10-22-2012, 06:55 PM
He (probably) knew it wouldn't work; he was (probably) suggesting it so you'd do it. But yeah, SCG PotY winners don't just show up and play with (purportedly) inch-long sleeve protrusions.

What a character.

Well he asked me after the match, not the game. So if he was suggesting I would do it for future play, he was banking on playing me again at some point at an unsanctioned event, or after his ban is lifted. Something tells me that wasn't the case.


Exactly what I thought. :wink:

While I also hate Bertonicini for what he has done, a time extension is never an "illegal advantage". Whenever I read your tournament reports I like what I see, but some things always come off as pretty biased. I also always ask for time extensions when I'm down 0-1 and had a judge call during game1, no biggie. If the judge agrees to a time extension, there has to be a reason - if he can't state one, you should definitely appeal.

The time extension wasn't illegal. We got a time extension of 10 minutes, which was the time it took for the entire judge ruling. The illegal extension was when he lost game 1 he asked for an additional extension for no reason, and the judge gave it to him.

Julian, You're saying that if you lose game 1 and there was a judge ruling during that game, you got extra time, immediately after you lose game one you call a judge over to get extra time, and you consider that not seeking an illegal advantage?

Julian23
10-22-2012, 07:43 PM
Oh, I see. Thought he asked for an extension b/c of the ruling; which is what I always do. Kinda strange the judge agreed with on on giving a second extension, I think you should definitely have appealed or pressed for a reason there.

Otherwise, good job at beating up the kid ;-)

LennonMarx
10-23-2012, 01:41 PM
Nice report, and you are far more gentlemanly than I. The second I would have sit down across from Bertonicini I would have called a judge to watch the match, and I definitely would have made him play his "shortcuts" correctly. Regardless, nice finish, and sweet deck.

.dk
10-23-2012, 02:47 PM
Sounds like a fun tournament with a fun deck! Also glad you got to stomp Alex... :)

Your round 4 opponent sounds like he was playing a deck called Zero - look for it in the Established forum. Didn't realize people were still playing it since Grafdigger's Cage came out. Its a faster deck than you think - can Turn 2 you post board with the help of Slaughter Pact.

Jim Higginbottom
10-24-2012, 12:29 PM
As soon as the game ends Alex calls a judge and says to watch me for Slow Play. I balk at this since I was playing at a fine pace considering I'm making 4-5x the number of decisions a turn than Alex. Alex says that since I won game 1 it is in my favor to slow play and stall. I tell him that would be obviously cheating, to which he has no karmic or historic retort. The judge still shows up, which is fine of course. Alex asks another judge if they can have an additional time extension despite us being given an equal amount of time of our ruling, and the judge gives us 5 more minutes. Again, this time extension favors him, as he even admitted obviously looking to gain every illegal advantage he can in this game.


It doesn't matter how many decisions you have to make. You have to play the game at a reasonable pace. From what you've stated here his request for you to play faster seems perfectly reasonable.

Rock Lee
10-24-2012, 12:49 PM
It doesn't matter how many decisions you have to make. You have to play the game at a reasonable pace. From what you've stated here his request for you to play faster seems perfectly reasonable.

Not to try to get technical on you. But decision making is exactly what determines how much time you can take. Not possible decisions, but actual decisions made increase the amount of time you have to think without slow play or stalling. I was searching and looking with top 2-3 times each player's turn. That's 30 seconds per action in addition to shuffle times, which I was minimizing on.

I wasn't sitting idling and thinking "hrmmm let me think of all my possible plays that number in the 100's of possible outcomes." I was progressing the game state and using my time allotted. He called the judge because he thought it would benefit him by putting me on tilt, and making me play sloppily, and because after he lost game 1 he needed to start pulling dirtier and dirtier potential advantages. Was surprised he didn't ask to count my sideboard with his loss being imminent.

Koby
10-24-2012, 01:08 PM
Not to try to get technical on you. But decision making is exactly what determines how much time you can take. Not possible decisions, but actual decisions made increase the amount of time you have to think without slow play or stalling. I was searching and looking with top 2-3 times each player's turn. That's 30 seconds per action in addition to shuffle times, which I was minimizing on.

I wasn't sitting idling and thinking "hrmmm let me think of all my possible plays that number in the 100's of possible outcomes." I was progressing the game state and using my time allotted. He called the judge because he thought it would benefit him by putting me on tilt, and making me play sloppily, and because after he lost game 1 he needed to start pulling dirtier and dirtier potential advantages. Was surprised he didn't ask to count my sideboard with his loss being imminent.

30 seconds to Top after shuffling, every turn, is my definition of Slow Play. Doing so 2-3 times a turn is egregious. If I was watching this match as a judge I would warn you to speed it up.
Outside of officiating, if a player that uses Top for a number of years takes this long to make decisions worries me about the game-pace being used.

Rock Lee
10-24-2012, 02:04 PM
30 seconds to Top after shuffling, every turn, is my definition of Slow Play. Doing so 2-3 times a turn is egregious. If I was watching this match as a judge I would warn you to speed it up.
Outside of officiating, if a player that uses Top for a number of years takes this long to make decisions worries me about the game-pace being used.

I suppose all I can say to that is I am extremely pleased that we are separated by 3,000 miles. If I am being told to speed up my play because I'm spending 1 1/2 minutes looking at 9 cards in 3 card increments while performing searches and using spells, then I would be livid.

Koby
10-24-2012, 02:08 PM
I suppose all I can say to that is I am extremely pleased that we are separated by 3,000 miles. If I am being told to speed up my play because I'm spending 1 1/2 minutes looking at 9 cards in 3 card increments while performing searches and using spells, then I would be livid.

Perhaps you are not being clear in what you refer to as action. I assume by action you mean "a single spell/ability resolving." Is this what you mean by it?

csy
10-24-2012, 02:15 PM
wait has it been 18 months already? is he allowed to play again? Oh man I REALLY hope he goes right back to grinding SCG opens, crushes, wins player of the year again, and then dirty birds us in the poty photo.

Michael Keller
10-24-2012, 02:24 PM
wait has it been 18 months already? is he allowed to play again? Oh man I REALLY hope he goes right back to grinding SCG opens, crushes, wins player of the year again, and then dirty birds us in the poty photo.

Yeah, you can probably expect that not to happen.

Rock Lee
10-24-2012, 02:27 PM
Perhaps you are not being clear in what you refer to as action. I assume by action you mean "a single spell/ability resolving." Is this what you mean by it?

Thought I was quite specific. 1 1/2 minutes total to look at 3 cards 3 times, when the 3 cards are random each time. You say slow play. And that blows my mind.

Rock Lee
10-24-2012, 02:30 PM
wait has it been 18 months already? is he allowed to play again? Oh man I REALLY hope he goes right back to grinding SCG opens, crushes, wins player of the year again, and then dirty birds us in the poty photo.

As I mentioned several times in the report, it was an unsancationed event randomly, hence why he could play.

Koby
10-24-2012, 02:31 PM
Thought I was quite specific. 1 1/2 minutes total to look at 3 cards 3 times, when the 3 cards are random each time. You say slow play. And that blows my mind.

OK, now I understand. I would still consider this slow play. 30 seconds to examine 3 cards is 10 seconds too much by my judgment. As you are a prolific Post Ramp/Top player, I would expect this amount of time to be reduces to less than 10 seconds. You should know what cards you're looking for and how to play around discard/ordering the cards. If you're shuffling so frequently just to update top, I would factor this in too. SDT is on my shitlist for Slow Play and there exists enough backup that the card has a detrimental effect on the rate of which tournaments go over Round time.

Rock Lee
10-24-2012, 02:56 PM
OK, now I understand. I would still consider this slow play. 30 seconds to examine 3 cards is 10 seconds too much by my judgment. As you are a prolific Post Ramp/Top player, I would expect this amount of time to be reduces to less than 10 seconds. You should know what cards you're looking for and how to play around discard/ordering the cards. If you're shuffling so frequently just to update top, I would factor this in too. SDT is on my shitlist for Slow Play and there exists enough backup that the card has a detrimental effect on the rate of which tournaments go over Round time.

I maintain my position about being content about your distance then. The way this deck uses SDT is not to make sure you have optimal CMC's for Counterbalance ontop like 90% of decks that run SDT run, or to dig three cards deeper and select the optimal of three cards in colors that are lacking in cantrips and shuffle away the rest like Sui or Mono Red can do. Both of these decisions are <5 second decisions.

This deck has a massive power level difference between all of its cards that change based off single land drop/tutor choices. I'm not saying that this entitles the deck to more time for actions than other decks, but I do find it absurd that most people redirect their SDT animosity, which has often been accrued through slow players uncomfortable with their decks possibly attempting to stall out the game or simply being unexperienced, towards this deck that needs to balance the massively variant power level of their cards throughout the game in a single look/rearrange.

Nevermind the considerations that keeping cards ontop of the library are extremely important. An excellent example is in the SCG coverage at Providence against Reanimator, both commentators were bemoaning how long I was taking topping, and how I had no plays and that I was "milking the spotlight," when infact I was maintaining a Flusterstorm on top of my library that entirely won me the game in three turns.

It is for this reason that I strongly dislike TO's that use less than 50 minutes for their round times, time their Top 8's, and these TO's and Judges that approach players in regards to slow play without observing the players actual pace of play and rather are thinking of "wow all SDT players that go to time are slow playing" or "I want to get home by midnight therefore I'll give the SDT player a warning."

Koby
10-24-2012, 03:52 PM
It is for this reason that I strongly dislike TO's that use less than 50 minutes for their round times, time their Top 8's, and these TO's and Judges that approach players in regards to slow play without observing the players actual pace of play and rather are thinking of "wow all SDT players that go to time are slow playing" or "I want to get home by midnight therefore I'll give the SDT player a warning."

Not every venue can remain open past midnight. TO's can in fact chose to run rounds at 40/45/50 minutes at their discretion. Judges (good ones at least) will watch the pace of the game to determine Slow Play. You sound salty about having a judge come to watch for potential abuses of time. If it bothers you to be watched being played, or some commentary about your unorthodox play-speed, than perhaps there's something to be said about the pace of your play.

I've seen this happen with players who are ritualistically methodical with their game play. In some cases, yes it's SDT. In other cases it's shuffling bordering on the level of OCD. In most of the remaining cases, it's players not confident with their plays. I'm not saying this is the case for you specifically, but when I read that you take upwards of 30 seconds to make your SDT decisions while having sufficient experience with the card, my spidey senses are perked.

Rock Lee
10-24-2012, 04:58 PM
Not every venue can remain open past midnight. TO's can in fact chose to run rounds at 40/45/50 minutes at their discretion. Judges (good ones at least) will watch the pace of the game to determine Slow Play. You sound salty about having a judge come to watch for potential abuses of time.

Not at all. You missed my points entirely. But that's fine.

Dyvith
11-02-2012, 01:43 PM
I don't understand how you can state that each top activation can be done in ten to twenty seconds. Seeing Jeremiah play first hand, top decisions are slightly more complex than just filtering your draws and it's not like he's just sitting there playing with his thumbs. There's a reason that people say that brainstorm is the hardest card to play in Legacy, and top applies similarly here. There's a fine line between slow play and taking the time to make deliberate, calculated decisions, but the line IS there. Accusing someone of slow play when you a) don't really understand the circumstances and b) haven't observed a player playing is rash and rude. After all, you're rushing someone who is trying to make the right play, but as human beings, we need time to think, especially when you are playing an obscure deck and are most likely introduced to obscure game states that you need to holistically evaluate. You may say that that's crap, but even in common match-ups such as RUG Delver vs. Stoneblade, brainstorm and Jace decisions still take a while because each board state needs to be evaluated in context to the board state and not what they remember from testing.

/end rant.

baghdadbob
11-03-2012, 12:52 PM
It seems like everytime you show up to an event with this deck you top 5. When we gunna see a move to DTB status? Or is it just you who pwns everyone with this deck? :tongue:

menace13
11-03-2012, 01:59 PM
This deck does not take more time to Top than CB. Simply because by the nature of countering things it is the most reactive. Also, Doomsday.

Rock Lee
11-03-2012, 04:00 PM
It seems like everytime you show up to an event with this deck you top 5. When we gunna see a move to DTB status? Or is it just you who pwns everyone with this deck? :tongue:

Just making an Established Decks (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi) thread was a big jump for me!

I do extremely well with the deck. I always make money on my weekly local events, and in large events I almost always top 8 and ifnot I'm in contention until the very end. That being said, I have heard that the deck is extremely hard to pilot. I have heard many stories of people who just couldn't make the deck work, or felt it too clunky. The deck definitely IS clunky and difficult to decipher, but once you figure out how to work it, its power is relentless.

The only person I know who has had just as much success with the deck as I have is my frequent carpool mate Scott Hughes, who initially was lent the deck, then made his own (all foiled btw) version. He almost always top 8's events as well.

Seirei
11-06-2012, 03:38 AM
The only person I know who has had just as much success with the deck as I have is my frequent carpool mate Scott Hughes, who initially was lent the deck, then made his own (all foiled btw) version. He almost always top 8's events as well.

All foil? Damn I struggle getting myself to even safe up the money for a non foiled deck.

It'll take a while until I get the whole list together and rocke the local scene just as you do, since it's always great fun to play without the blue splash. :D

Anyway, congrats on the Top 4!

Avatar of Bro
11-07-2012, 09:11 PM
Once Bertoncini starts playing again, I wonder if he has any clue how many people are going to be watching every little thing he does. I know I would be in half a second flat. I know he blocked me on Twitter quite a few months ago because I kept asking him why he won't defend himself to his cheating allegations.

r3dd09
11-08-2012, 07:32 AM
I plan on building this deck; looks fun and I always love a challenging deck.

Also, congrats on the top 4 and beating Alex.

Rock Lee
11-08-2012, 04:45 PM
Once Bertoncini starts playing again, I wonder if he has any clue how many people are going to be watching every little thing he does. I know I would be in half a second flat. I know he blocked me on Twitter quite a few months ago because I kept asking him why he won't defend himself to his cheating allegations.

I was told that if I filed a report that he is playing unsanctioned magic events while banned that he could get perma/life banned. Anyone know about this? Given the opportunity I would do this considering how many people he has brazenly cheated. Only heard it 3rd hand, so I don't know.


::EDIT:: Spoke with some higher up Judges and the perma-ban would only be if he were trying to play sanctioned magic. so the person I spoke to must have been mistaken.

Norm
11-11-2012, 11:16 PM
I maintain my position about being content about your distance then. The way this deck uses SDT is not to make sure you have optimal CMC's for Counterbalance ontop like 90% of decks that run SDT run, or to dig three cards deeper and select the optimal of three cards in colors that are lacking in cantrips and shuffle away the rest like Sui or Mono Red can do. Both of these decisions are <5 second decisions.

This deck has a massive power level difference between all of its cards that change based off single land drop/tutor choices. I'm not saying that this entitles the deck to more time for actions than other decks, but I do find it absurd that most people redirect their SDT animosity, which has often been accrued through slow players uncomfortable with their decks possibly attempting to stall out the game or simply being unexperienced, towards this deck that needs to balance the massively variant power level of their cards throughout the game in a single look/rearrange.

Nevermind the considerations that keeping cards ontop of the library are extremely important. An excellent example is in the SCG coverage at Providence against Reanimator, both commentators were bemoaning how long I was taking topping, and how I had no plays and that I was "milking the spotlight," when infact I was maintaining a Flusterstorm on top of my library that entirely won me the game in three turns.

It is for this reason that I strongly dislike TO's that use less than 50 minutes for their round times, time their Top 8's, and these TO's and Judges that approach players in regards to slow play without observing the players actual pace of play and rather are thinking of "wow all SDT players that go to time are slow playing" or "I want to get home by midnight therefore I'll give the SDT player a warning."

http://i48.tinypic.com/2u63a11.jpg

Yup, had to do it.

Rock Lee
11-13-2012, 11:40 PM
http://i48.tinypic.com/2u63a11.jpg

Yup, had to do it.

Can't tell who is being sarcasm'd upon.

Koby
11-13-2012, 11:52 PM
Can't tell who is being sarcasm'd upon.

Me neither oddly.

monovfox
11-18-2012, 12:54 AM
why was it considered cheating when Alex Botercini played a merfolk deck with all foil spells and non-foil basics? Like. I don't understand how the way he dressed his deck is cheating :v (I will say, I'm glad you beat him)

Rock Lee
11-18-2012, 09:12 AM
why was it considered cheating when Alex Botercini played a merfolk deck with all foil spells and non-foil basics? Like. I don't understand how the way he dressed his deck is cheating :v (I will say, I'm glad you beat him)

foils curl, even new foils, so you can look at the top of your deck when it is faced-down with a fetchland in play, and know if the top card is a brick or not. It is considered one of the simplest forms of cheating, but also one of the most productive ones.

Darkenslight
11-18-2012, 12:12 PM
why was it considered cheating when Alex Botercini played a merfolk deck with all foil spells and non-foil basics? Like. I don't understand how the way he dressed his deck is cheating :v (I will say, I'm glad you beat him)

Because only the lands were nonfoil. That allows a sufficiently-trained player to automatically shuffle to/cut to land or nonland. There's a reason it's called Marked Cards infraction, and if a pattern is suspected, that can be upgraded as per the IPG and Tournament Rules.