Green's version(s) of Show and Tell's?

[Hanni]

Okay, so I was just bored and browsing Gatherer for cards. People are already familiar with Defense of the Heart (with Forbidden Orchard) and Natural Order. I was wondering why no one has tried to abuse a couple of other ones, though...

Descendant's Path. I know this isn't a blue sorcery, so it's not in the same colors as Brainstorm and Force of Will, but it costs 3 mana too. Of course, it doesn't put the card directly into play, and you have to wait until your upkeep. I'm not saying this card is as powerful as Show and Tell, but with Mutavault, it basically lets you cheat fatties into play. As a bonus, the upkeep reveal is somewhat like Dark Confidant, in that you still get your drawstep (+1 CA). This card just seems really strong to me, and I'm just wondering why I've never seen it discussed.

Hunting Grounds. You need to have Threshold first, so it will take a few turns before you can use it (and most likely, you'll wait until you have Thresh to put it into play), and it opens you up to graveyard hate. Still though, it only costs 2 mana, and you can drop fatties everytime an opponent casts a spell. Meaning if it resolves, the opponent can't cast any spells to stop it (not even Krosan Grip).

Lastly, Lead the Stampede looks like a solid "Ringleader" draw engine for [green] aggro decks like Maverick... no?

Anyways, just curious why I have never seen these cards discussed before. What do you guys think? Not good enough for Legacy?

[Koby]

Anyways, just curious why I have never seen these cards discussed before. What do you guys think? Not good enough for Legacy?

Mana and inconsistency, and too many conditionals to make it work. Also, many of these is stopped by Grafdigger's Cage, where Show & Tell isn't. Mostly, Show & Tell is so good at what it does because it also allows Enchantments and Artifacts to be cheated into play, and pitch to Force of Will in a the pinch moment. The green analogs are no where near as flexible.

[Greenpoe]

Descendant's Path + Worldly Tutor/Sylvan Tutor would be decent. This kind of deck would go well with Polymorph, too.


Defense of the Heart goes well with Living Wish for Forbidden Orchard...maybe could see play in some weird 4 or 5-color deck (or a 3-color deck that's really color intensive), where you might just want Forbidden Orchard anyway for regular mana. Or better yet, Living Wish for Hunted Phantasm/Hunted Troll/Hunted Dragon and it'll set itself off with the Orchard out. Could go well with Beast Within. Such a deck would probably want Enlightened Tutor, which opens up nice options for targets to set back the opponent that you could easily ramp into (since you'd want 4 mana ASAP for Defense). At the end of the day, though, it's probably just plain better to run Natural Order and "settle" for Progenitus instead of jumping through all those hoops to get Eldrazi or whatever.

I'm surprised NO doesn't see more play, actually. You don't even need a bunch of green creatures necessarily, just some Misty Rainforests and a Dryad Arbor.

[death]

And because there's already a proven green version and it costs 0.

[Hanni]

I guess. I mean, I'm not saying that any of the cards I listed are better than Show and Tell, or that they would even create a deck like Show and Tell. I only brought up Show and Tell in the title because these cards are cheating fatties into play... not whether they are strictly on the same power level or not.

...but Descendant's Path just looks so abusive with stuff like Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Enlightened Tutor (artifact creatures, also grabs Path), Lim-Dul's Vault, Dwarven Recruiter, Congregation at Dawn, etc... and it doesn't even need to be played in a combo shell, it could just squeeze into some sort of U/G/x Aggro/Control deck with a few bombs or something, I dunno. Weathered Wayfarer and Knight of the Reliquary even tutor up the Mutavault. So if you go U/G/W, you can also run Hunting Grounds in the same deck... not sure if Natural Order would be worth it at that point, but maybe as a SB option?

As for Lead the Stampede, I'm baffled by this one. Is GSZ just so powerful, that cutting it for Vial and Stampede isn't worth it?

[Finn]

I have used Lead the Stampede. It is essentially A draw 3 for 3 sorcery with the requirement that you play about 32 creatures. Good with Ancient Tomb or lots of Elves, but hardly killer.

[Shawon]

As for Lead the Stampede, I'm baffled by this one. Is GSZ just so powerful, that cutting it for Vial and Stampede isn't worth it?

The vast difference between Lead the Stampede and GSZ lies in the game zones they send the selected creature cards. In creature decks, keeping a steady flow of pressure against the opponent is a higher priority than drawing (creature) cards. The number of creatures you draw from Lead the Stampede doesn't make up for the lost tempo of spending a turn to draw cards and not playing another creature ready to attack next turn. GSZ is good because it's a versatile tutor that effectively acts as a creature spell, never conflicting with a creature deck's strategy of keeping constant pressure against the opponent.

[(nameless one)]

Eureka! I have found the answer!

[Mr. Safety]

Summoning Trap

Play creature, get it countered, Worldly Tutor/SDT/Brainstorm into fatty, play for free.

[Esper3k]

Dramatic Entrance is pretty... dramatic...

[Megadeus]

My old favorite from when I first started playing Lurking Predators! Oh how I miss the days when my Kalonian Behemoth was the most terrifying thing at the kitchen table...

[Megadeus]

I may build a green cheat horrifying fatties into play deck for funsies...

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Elvish Piper too.


And, of course, Green Sun's Zenith (although it's obviously functionally quite different).

[sco0ter]

...but Descendant's Path just looks so abusive with stuff like Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Enlightened Tutor (artifact creatures, also grabs Path), Lim-Dul's Vault, Dwarven Recruiter, Congregation at Dawn, etc... and it doesn't even need to be played in a combo shell, it could just squeeze into some sort of U/G/x Aggro/Control deck with a few bombs or something, I dunno. Weathered Wayfarer and Knight of the Reliquary even tutor up the Mutavault. So if you go U/G/W, you can also run Hunting Grounds in the same deck... not sure if Natural Order would be worth it at that point, but maybe as a SB option?


Descendants' Path

Have you read the card? The creature card on top of your library needs to share a creature type with a creature you control. You would probably most likely play green acceleration like Noble Hierarch or elves. But I can't think of any Human or Druid or Elf that is worth cheating into play.

So actually, you need Mutavault or other Changelings.

In the end this is 3-card combo: Path, Mutavault, Worldly Tutor AND you must wait one turn. Compared to Natural Order it is not worth the effort in my opinion.

[Whippoorwill]

Lure of Prey is one I came across awhile back. Worse than Dramatic Entrance, but at least it's cheaper?

[hi-val]

I would love to see Quicksilver Amulet pop up in SnT deck sideboards. It takes a lot more mana but with Emrakul, it's like you have a Vial with 15 counters on it!

[Michael Keller]

...Eureka?

[death]

redundant + donkey + ridiculous = redonkulous


2 Hypergenesis + 10 cascade spells = 12 (aside from actual S&Ts)

Also, $75-card vs. $0.75-card

[csy]

Timmy the power gamer. And eureka.

[Richard Cheese]

Why would you play Descendants' Path when you could pay one more green to get the same effect on a badass 3/5 body (http://magiccards.info/mt/en/128.html)??? Most underrated tribe in Legacy.

Damnit why does there have to be a GP coming up? I want to play stupid decks!

[csy]

god damnit... I wanna play eureka at the GP now. Thanks richard.

[Richard Cheese]

Putting Leaf-Crowned Elder into play off Eureka....so saucy.

[Asthereal]

Revealing Doran off your Leaf-Crown Elder, in effect turning your Elder into a 5/5 beatstick. Sweeeeeet! :laugh:

[Barook]

It's a shame that so many Treefolk cards sucks. Descendants' Path + Leaf-Crowned Elder + Sylvan Library/SDT sounds like a pretty sweet engine, especially with Sol Lands for accel.

There might be some cool Shamans to abuse it, though.