Humility v Pithing Needle

[jrw1985]

Pithing Needle = Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities.

Humility = All creatures lose all abilities and are 1/1.

Here's my question: Why does Pithing Needle shut down a card in all zones (battlefield, hand, graveyard), but Humility only shuts off creatures on the battlefield? The rulings in Gatherer for Pithing Needle specifically say that it affects all zones, whereas Humility doesn't so you know it only affects the battlefield. Considering that both of these cards are permanent-based effects that affect the effects of other cards Why does the scope of their application differ?

In other words, does Needle really affect all zones just because WotC decided it affects all zones? Or is there a specificity to Needle's wording that implies it has a broader scope than Humility?

I get the feeling that this is just going to be a "Cuz Wizards says so" answer. I just need verification that I'm not missing some patently obvious rules detail here.

[Barook]

Creature card = all zones

Creature = only when it's on the battlefield, hence Humility working like that

[Valtrix]

The key word here in pithing needle here is "source." Whenever you put an ability on the stack, that ability will have some source, namely the card that created that ability. So, pithing needle doesn't care about the zone of any cards it might effect, it is basically just saying that whatever card is named is prevented from putting an activated ability on the stack (ie, being the source of an activated ability put on the stack), regardless of where the source is.

[Malchar]

The way that I think about it is that humility has a restriction on it that makes it more narrow than pithing needle. Without any qualification, both cards would affect objects in any zone. Humility has the restriction that it only applies to creatures, and creatures only exist on the battlefield (in other zones, they are called "creature cards").

[jrw1985]

Thank you all for the insight. The Source is pretty damn helpful for Magic minutia. Creatue vs Creature Card is an important distinction I hadn't explicitly encountered before. It makes sense once you realize the difference in definition. And Pithing Needle's Sources qualifier makes sense too.

So if I wanted to stretch Cursed Totem's ability to all zones...

"Activated abilities of creatures can't be activated."
...would need to be changed to...
"Activated abilities of creatures and creature sources can't be activated."
Or would Cursed Totem only need to read:
"Activated abilities of creatures and creature cards can't be activated."?

I can see how the last option could be read to shut down activated abiltities of creature cards in all zones (just because no matter what zone they're in they're still Creature Cards). But what gets me is that Pithing Needle uses the term "Source" to denote all fields of play. That leads me to believe that the middle option for wording would be necessary to clarify that Totem is shutting down creature cards in ALL zones. Otherwise, wouldn't Pithing Needle just read "Activated abilities of cards with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities."?

[cdr]

Thank you all for the insight. The Source is pretty damn helpful for Magic minutia. Creatue vs Creature Card is an important distinction I hadn't explicitly encountered before. It makes sense once you realize the difference in definition. And Pithing Needle's Sources qualifier makes sense too.

So if I wanted to stretch Cursed Totem's ability to all zones...

"Activated abilities of creatures can't be activated."
...would need to be changed to...
"Activated abilities of creatures and creature sources can't be activated."
Or would Cursed Totem only need to read:
"Activated abilities of creatures and creature cards can't be activated."?

I can see how the last option could be read to shut down activated abiltities of creature cards in all zones (just because no matter what zone they're in they're still Creature Cards). But what gets me is that Pithing Needle uses the term "Source" to denote all fields of play. That leads me to believe that the middle option for wording would be necessary to clarify that Totem is shutting down creature cards in ALL zones. Otherwise, wouldn't Pithing Needle just read "Activated abilities of cards with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities."?

Pithing Needle uses "sources" mainly because it's a short way to say "everything everywhere" in rules-speak, but it also covers oddball cases like a copy of a spell having an activated ability.

Under current rules, "cards" means actual cards (not copies or tokens) that are not on the battlefield or stack. On the stack, cards are "spells", and there can be non-card copies of spells. On the battlefield, cards are "permanents" and there can be token permanents. "Creature" on the battlefield, "creature spell" on the stack, "creature card" everywhere else.

"Creature sources" means "an object with the quality 'creature'", so "creature sources" would likely be preferred. "Creatures and creature cards" is a bit more clear to the average player maybe, but it does miss creature spells with activated abilities (not sure any exist presently).

[Koby]

Pithing Needle was errated from "cards" to "source" to include copies of cards. Think Pack Rats. Th Saviors of Kamigawa text would not stop Pack Rat tokens; but Tenth Edition version can. Its otherwise easier to understand Needle stopping _cards_ not on the battlefield.

[Julian23]

(not sure any exist presently).

If there's one thing I've learnt in the last 15 years, then it's that there's no scenario in Magic, you can't come up with. :wink:

[jrw1985]

Pithing Needle uses "sources" mainly because it's a short way to say "everything everywhere" in rules-speak, but it also covers oddball cases like a copy of a spell having an activated ability.

Under current rules, "cards" means actual cards (not copies or tokens) that are not on the battlefield or stack. On the stack, cards are "spells", and there can be non-card copies of spells. On the battlefield, cards are "permanents" and there can be token permanents. "Creature" on the battlefield, "creature spell" on the stack, "creature card" everywhere else.

"Creature sources" means "an object with the quality 'creature'", so "creature sources" would likely be preferred. "Creatures and creature cards" is a bit more clear to the average player maybe, but it does miss creature spells with activated abilities (not sure any exist presently).

I used too many words in my all-zones Cursed Totem then. It would only need to read "Activated abilities of creature sources can't be activated."

That wording would turn off all activated abiltities of creatures and tokens on the battlefield, all creature cards in hand, library, or graveyard, and all creature spells and copies of creature spells on the stack.

Right?

[cdr]

I used too many words in my all-zones Cursed Totem then. It would only need to read "Activated abilities of creature sources can't be activated."

That wording would turn off all activated abiltities of creatures and tokens on the battlefield, all creature cards in hand, library, or graveyard, and all creature spells and copies of creature spells on the stack.

Right?

Yep. All creature everything.

[jrw1985]

Cool.