(Too much) Confusion in the Ranks!

[andrebonotto]

Greetings,

I come here to seek for your wisdom to dissipate my confused thoughts regarding some interactions of the card Confusion in the Ranks.

Below, I describe a “SITUATION” that portrays a “REGULAR CONFUSED"-ACTION, which could have ended up as a "TOO MUCH CONFUSED"-ACTION. And this is where my doubt lies.

Confused? Let’s examine it.

SITUATION:

My opponent had a Propaganda in play. He then casts a Show and Tell.
He puts Omniscience into play, while I put Confusion in the Ranks. CitR’s triggered ability made us permute enchantments.

"REGULAR CONFUSED"-ACTION:

Since I am the NAP, the trigger from my CitR resolves first, and I choose his Omniscience to permute for my CitR.
The second trigger (from his Omniscience entering the battlefield) fizzles, since he is no longer it’s controller.
Until now, this works as described here, right?
(…)
The game proceeds for a while.
(…)
Later on, I still have the Omniscience in play. He still has the Propaganda and the CitR. It is my turn. I draw another CitR.

"TOO MUCH CONFUSED"-ACTION:

Supose I want to use my Omniscience static ability to cast the Confusion in the Ranks I have just drawn, having the intention to permute it with his Propaganda.

If I did so, what would technically have happened? (i.e.: what are the triggers involved, in which order do they occur and who is the controller of each of them, so that which are the choices that can be made?)

Thanks in advance,

- André

(P.S.: I have already read the “Confusion in the Ranks: The Answer to Omniscience” thread, but this interation was not discussed there, nor at any other thread with this card on it's title.)

[Koby]

The first scenario works as you described it. Specifically, when the AP's CitR triggered, his only choice was your Enchantment. At the time it resolved, it was no longer a valid target (as he now controlled the targeted enchantment).

Let's take a look at what happens when the following play occurs:
AP casts CitR, and controls Omniscience.
NAP controls CitR and Propoganda.

AP's CitR enters the battlefield, and generates two triggers, in the following order:

Bottom of stack.
AP's CitR trigger, targeting one of NAP's enchantments.
NAP's CitR trigger, targeting one of AP's enchantments.
Top of the stack.

This is where it would start to get confusing, because choices are made AP/NAP order, so any action taken by the AP for targeting can become invalidated by NAP's targeting. Thus, the NAP is favored in this interaction at every possible resolution outside of Enchantment removal.

[andrebonotto]

I realized until now I had not thanked you for the answer.

So... thanks. :smile:

...

But after further reflexion, I think there's one more thing, to properly solve/understand this:


"(...) choices are made AP/NAP order(...)".

I'm okay with this.

But it appears to me that the scenario now (each player controls a CitR in play, one of these being the permanent that is triggering both abilities) may have some interesting differences from the previous one (one player had CitR, but both players were having a permanent simultaneously entering the battlefield and triggering CitR), in terms of choices/resolution...



Confusion in the Ranks
Enchantment, :3::r::r: (5)

Whenever an artifact, creature, or enchantment enters the battlefield, its controller chooses target permanent another player controls that shares a card type with it. Exchange control of those permanents.



CitR's text claims only that the player that is to make a choice is the controller of the permanent that came into play.

(It says nothing about the other player. On the first scenario this other player had a choice to be made because he, too, controlled a permanent that was entering the battlefield - coming down from SnT).

Now we have each player controlling one copy of CitR, but just one player having a permanent enter the battlefield - AP.

Since only the AP is having a permanent enter the battlefield, wouldn't both CitR's triggers point toward him (AP), making him be the player that will made both choices of permute?

If this is so, it appears that AP could choose to trade, for instance:



[1st trigger on top of the stack] Permute: his new CitR for NAP's CitR.
[2nd trigger on top of the stack] Permute: his traded CitR for NAP's Propaganda.




...So this way AP would end up being in great advantage.

How does my reasoning sound on thir matter?

...

EDIT: One more added thinking:

If my previous thinking is correcting on interpreting some interactions, however, I'm not sure if the 2nd trigger (2nd choice that AP would make) would not fizzle, on the scenario with the two choices I presented above.

This might happen since, from what I understood, AP must permute the permanent that triggered CitR's ability, but by the time his 2nd trigger would resolve, he would not be able to do it anymore, for he would already have permuted it on the 1st trigger.

If this second conclusion is correct, in order for AP to end up controlling NAP's Propaganda, AP would need to select Propaganda as a target to be permuted with his CitR that was entering the battlefield, for the 1st trigger that would resolve.

Right?