ProsperAtog (Or: Stroke of Atog)

[Jenni]

Just a combo-control deck I was toying around with. I love Dr. Teeth (Psychatog), and was thinking about it and decided to test out his interaction with Prosperity (Hence the name).
After losing games due to giving my opponent relevant cards off prosperity I switched to braingeyser, but sorcery speed started to be an issue, so now it's more of a Stroke of Atog deck.

Edit: Updated for Ad Nauseum suggestion:


4 Psychatog

4 Ad Nauseam

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Pact of Negation

2 Smother

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal ritual

4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
7 Swamp
5 Island
4 Marsh Flats

Could certainly use some refining and testing, but the premise it pretty simple. Chip away with the Atog for a bit, or let your opponent's fetch lands and such do some of the work for you, then when they're low enough swing with the 'tog, no blockers declared - in response Ad Nauseam to draw a bunch, feed the tog, hit for lethal.

The free counterspells protect the combo and yourself. I considered Counterspell but double-Blue can be rough since I wanted enough swamps for lake.

Ponder and Brainstorm find missing 'togs and strokes, more fast mana, etc. and make sure you hit land drops in longer games.

Fast mana fuels earlier Ad Nauseam translating into a bigger bite from the Doctor.

2 kill spells to clear the path of blockers.

Sideboard should be meta dependent of course, but right now I have:

Edit: Changed after Ad Nauseam update.
Sideboard:
1 Pact of Negation
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Engineered Plague
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Black Sun's Zenith
3 Echoing Truth


Plague and explosives hit elves and goblins and lingering souls tokens, the occasional merfolk, and once I shut down a bitterblossom with plague, which was fun.
Explosives is good against a few decks as a catch-all, blowing up delvers, goyfs and mongeese.
BSZ is more general anti creature.
Flusterstorm is anti-storm, replacing mindbreak for the lower CMC.
Crypt is my nod to dredge. Replacing Leyline because I don't want so many 4 and 5 cmc cards with Ad Nauseam.
Pact comes in against any deck the creature removal is bad in so I have more permission. I've considered dropping the pacts completely for flusterstorm.
Echoing is just some non-creature removal, and it's nice to bounce Tokens, or an Iona naming black on occasion.

I'm pretty weak to show and tell, my only chance is to win the counter war, I'm just not sure what in UB I could really sideboard in against them, I tried Oubliette which was nice vs emrakul, and another spot-removal spell, but dead to omniscience.

It's a bit fragile, since there are only 4 threats in the entire deck.

So thoughts, advice, complaints, pleas for this to be thrown in the casual forum? Any feedback is welcome.

[Megadeus]

Dont mean to rain on your parade... what about a version where you have rituals and you cast ad nauseam?

[Anusien]

Using Dark Ritual to fuel Stroke of Genius to feed Psychatog is just casting Lightning Bolt. Isn't that just easier?

[Megadeus]

Using Dark Ritual to fuel Stroke of Genius to feed Psychatog is just casting Lightning Bolt. Isn't that just easier?

Kind of my thoughts as well. Which is why ad naseam would be better. So many cards for so little cost!

[Jenni]

Dont mean to rain on your parade... what about a version where you have rituals and you cast ad nauseam?

Entirely reasonable if you build around it, I would think. To be honest, it just hadn't occurred to me to try Ad Nauseam, it's not a card that's normally on my radar.
the biggest problem I can see with it is the number of 5s in the deck. With Ad Nauseum in the deck, along with force, that's eight 5 cmc cards in the deck.
So to make it work would probably make tutors a necessity, infernal would be ideal, but then I need LEDs or something of the sort to make it work as a demonic, which isn't neccecarily a problem. Cruel tutor or Grim might work well too, but the life loss + cmc of 3 is a bit concerning.



Using Dark Ritual to fuel Stroke of Genius to feed Psychatog is just casting Lightning Bolt. Isn't that just easier?

The card draw is what made me decide to post it, actually. You can feed it all to the atog to speed up the kill, but it can also just draw you into counter magic, extra 'togs, etc. and you just feed any chaff to the 'tog. Efficiency vs Versatility, basically.

[Anusien]

Obviously if you go that direction, you run Sphinx's Revelation instead to balance the life loss from Ad Nauseam.

[Jenni]

Obviously if you go that direction, you run Sphinx's Revelation instead to balance the life loss from Ad Nauseam.

Sarcasm?
If you run Ad Nauseum, you just draw as much off of the Ad Nauseum as you can without dieing, feed the tog from those, then just win. the life loss doesn't matter as long as your life stays in the positives until damage is resolved.
It requires more of a commitment to the attack, since you could easily be dead once your opponent untaps if you fail to kill them right there, but as far as the "all in" aspect of the deck goes it's actually a lot more efficient than stroke.

[John Cox]

What about a traditional aggro/control deck with deep analysis and maybe accumulated knowledge .

[Megadeus]

What about a combo of thought scour/Mental Note?

[Hanni]

At the point where you go the combo route, why not just run Tendrils instead of Tog for the kill?

My suggestion would be Intuition and Life from the Loam.

[Spigore]

Ah right, Psychatog. How couldn't you love this little fella.

I like the Ad Nauseam idea. With mister Teeth out, it's a powerhouse! Though I think the deck will have a hard time protecting both the creature and the spell.
Next to that, the big atog can be chumpblocked easily, causing all that fancy draw and discard to be useless.
Things to consider are Berserk, Wonder, Anger (?)

Hanni's suggestion is also an interesting one, but I think you will be building a somewhat more Junk/Rock-ish type of deck.

Interesting... :smile:

[SirTylerGalt]

If I were going to create a combo-control deck with a creature win condition, I think I'd use Nivmagus Elemental and/or Kiln Fiend in a U/R High Tide shell :)

[Jenni]

I went the combo-control rout basically just because aggro-control 'tog already exists, theres even a thread for it buried in the established decks forum somewhere. Burning Tog ( http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4002-Deck-Burning-Tog ) is essentially the aggro-control tog deck, and I have toyed around with an updated version of it, I just wanted to examine the combo potential of the little guy.
As for why to try this over Tendrils, winning in the red zone has a couple advantages, the tog can beat down slowly over the course of the game if the combo approach won't work, and he can block and eat opponents creatures to relieve pressure a bit. Besides that, if Ad Nauseum Resolves, and you have a tog on the field, then your opponent can't mindbreak trap or something to try to kill the combo usually - feeding the atog can't be countered, Stifle can only cancel one meal out, so if they don't have the blocker, or win the counter battle for Ad Nauseum, it's hard for them to stop you. At that point removal is pretty hard to resolve since you just drew a ton of cards, probably hitting some permission in the process.

Playing around a little with it, Ad Nauseum is definitely better than stroke was. A little higher risk, but it's a lot easier to get lethal & protection off Ad Nauseum than with Stroke.

As for the issue of blockers, I sorta addressed it in the first post. You just don't try to combo if they declare a blocker. You draw and feed him at instant speed, if he's blocked, then you only pump him as much as you need for him to eat the blocker, and try again the following turn.

[Anusien]

The lack of Fling is pretty glaring too. Both because it lets you kill faster and because it beats any number of removal spells.

[Hapless Researcher]

The lack of Fling is pretty glaring too. Both because it lets you kill faster and because it beats any number of removal spells.

I'd suggest 2 cards.

Angel's Grace and Wonder

This could let you Ad Nauseum for as many cards as you need.

[Mr. Safety]

At the point where you go the combo route, why not just run Tendrils instead of Tog for the kill?

My suggestion would be Intuition and Life from the Loam.

I was thinking the same...Loam is a naturally good card to discard, feeding Tog either by dredging stuff into the yard or just using it as a land-based engine for stuff like Wasteland, cycle lands, etc. Intuition would also be good at tutoring for Tog, or just setting up control piles with good stuff like Raven's Crime, Loam, Worm Harvest, Eternal Witness, Regrowth, etc. It's blue, so you get Brainstorm and Force. It's black so you can play Crime and targeted discard. It would have green with Loam, bringing you Abrupt Decay and Sylvan Library.

I could see Tog being a decent threat in a deck designed to play a hard-control game but play a big finisher. But just like many other posts...why not just Jace, Worm Harvest, or man-lands?

In the end, Psychatog could only be 'cute', and not the most efficient of threats. He isn't unblockable or uncounterable, doesn't have hexproof or infect, and he robs you of your own resources to win the game. Even a combo deck seems like a stretch. If I were playing Ad Nauseam and I wanted to play some goofy stuff, I'd just play Angel's Grace and Phyrexian Unlife, draw my whole deck and go for a win like Conflagrate or go traditional with Tendrils. In fact I have done that...and it sucks pretty bad in a competitive field.

In a nutshell: Psychatog is just weak win condition. It's the ENGINE that is what's good, that engine being Ad Nauseam or Prosperity. Hell, why not just go old skool and play Cadaverous Bloom and Squandered Resources? Then you can play ProsBloom like it's 1995.

[Hanni]

Tog is just not on the power level of the format anymore. Why go for one big all-in swing with an otherwise vanilla creature, when you can drop a huge Knight of the Reliquary for the same mana cost, who is always large and offers utility? Relying on a single creature to seal the deal in a format full of removal means you need a deck stocked with control spells to protect him and either clear the board or give him some sort of evasion, but is it really worth jumping through all those hoops?

At the point where you start running rituals and Ad Nauseam, why not run Tendrils instead?. At the point where you're going the Loam route, why not run Worm Harvest as your combo-esque finisher instead?

[Jenni]

In a nutshell: Psychatog is just weak win condition. It's the ENGINE that is what's good, that engine being Ad Nauseam or Prosperity. Hell, why not just go old skool and play Cadaverous Bloom and Squandered Resources? Then you can play ProsBloom like it's 1995.

You may be right that psychatog is too weak nowadays, I've liked him since he was a major threat and am trying to make him work, the deck could be completely non-viable, or strictly worse than another deck, I'm willing to admit it wasn't a good idea.

I have played Prosbloom recently, btw, as a casual deck. It's still a fun deck to play.

[.Ix]

If you want to play Ad Nauseam in this deck, Death's Shadow could work as another huge body.

[Hanni]

Another interesting way to make Tog work would be in a deck that wants the discard effect. Bloodghasts, Gravecrawlers, Squues, Loams, whatever. Seems like a more viable approach, at any rate.

[Megadeus]

It obviously wouldn't be the most competitive, but hey, if you are just playing to have fun, then play to have fun. It seems like if you are going to go all in on a single creature now adays, NivMagus Elemental probably is better. Keeps the buffs that he receives. Not as easy to just win the game on one attack, but still seems quite powerful. Also being a one drop means he is a much easier to get out and protect threat.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

How does Ad Nauseam just not kill you every time?

Maybe it'd be better to lower the curve and have a Cunning Wish board to make AdN hurt less.

[Jenni]

A build with recurable cards like Ghast and Squee Is probably better.
This deck is probably too slow for the format for a combo deck. The earliest it can win with the current build is turn 4 (T3 tog, T4 attack, Rit, AdNaus, Draw a bunch, lethal meal for the tog). Speeding that up with Mox diamonds makes it reasonable turn 3 sometimes, but gives you more dead draws and unkeepable hands.
I don't think it's entirely unplayable, I'll still probably work on it, but it's probably more due to the disruption package that it worked out in testing for me.

Having a lot of "free" counterspells and a ton of card draw goes a long way to protecting an otherwise underwhelming win condition.

I appreciate all the feedback and advice, though, thank you.
I'll still work on it i and try it with the suggestions I haven't tested, but I think it's safe to say this was not a great idea. :smile:

Edit:

How does Ad Nauseam just not kill you every time?

Maybe it'd be better to lower the curve and have a Cunning Wish board to make AdN hurt less.

Ad Nauseum hadn't killed me as often as I expected, there are a lot of cheaper spells, and you don't need to draw that much normally. It's got a reasonable chance to backfire, it happened a couple times today while I was playing it, I was thinking of trying Cruel Tutors, or Infernal Tutors with LEDs, to cut down to just 1 ad nauseam.

[Darkenslight]

Is there any point at which you'd consider using Tainted Strike as a kill-card with 'Tog?

[TraxDaMax]

Tog is just not on the power level of the format anymore. Why go for one big all-in swing with an otherwise vanilla creature, when you can drop a huge Knight of the Reliquary for the same mana cost, who is always large and offers utility? Relying on a single creature to seal the deal in a format full of removal means you need a deck stocked with control spells to protect him and either clear the board or give him some sort of evasion, but is it really worth jumping through all those hoops?

At the point where you start running rituals and Ad Nauseam, why not run Tendrils instead?. At the point where you're going the Loam route, why not run Worm Harvest as your combo-esque finisher instead?

Pretty much what I'm thinking.

Abrupt Decay straight up demolishes your kill without hesitation, Pithing Needle is nasty, StP, Path to Exile etc etc..
Even countering the fellow with a surigcal back up is GG...