[Deck] Playing with Vengevine

[Wik]

Hello =D

So throughout the last 2 days I've been tinkering with an idea. The idea came from a conversation I had with myself about way I could swing for 16 with Vengvine on turn 1. I looked at alot of possible options, but I found that alot of them were to slow, and swinging for 16 on turn one, became a pipe dream. But swinging for 12 on turn one, now that, that is a thing I can do.

The obvious cards involved

4 Vengvine (Obviously)
4 Buried Alive (3 Into your graveyard... Cha-Ching!)
4 Dark Ritual (Need to cast buried alive, remember?)

Now, this was gonna be the core of any deck I built from this point out, but I had to find a way to cast 2 creatures in the first turn... at which point I looked over at my cheeri0s deck... and felt like an idiot for not thinking of it sooner. Throw in entomb and bamn, I had the start to a deck that would prove to feel very strong while playing it... sorta.


4 Vengevine
4 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
3 Thoughtseize
16 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Memnite
4 Shield Sphere
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Crookshank Kobolds
1 Crimson Kobolds


It was a rough idea for sure. But it worked. And it worked really fast, I had some crazy hands. And even the non crazy ones could get going pretty fast. It had some issues though... (when I say some I mean alot).
1) It didn't have a sideboard. Which really isn't that big a deal you can add one later, but...
2) It folds to leyline of the void and Rest in Piece which is being played alot right now, and unfortunately, there aren't any real answers to that in mono-black (that I could find atleast)
3) It just didn't feel consistent enough, I mean you only had 8 ways to get vengvines into your yard, and that just doesn't feel like enough.

Also Thoughtseize honestly felt out of place. It did a job that I wanted it to do, but it didn't help the combo go faster... and I kinda want to go all in on Vengevine!

So I made a second list.


// Core of Deck
4 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Vengevine
//Mana and Utility
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Therapy
//0 Drops
4 Memnite
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Ornithopter
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
//Lands
9 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou


This version felt alot better, and I'd like to explore with it more (more on that in a bit).

So, with only 20 creatures to play as 0 drops, I felt like I wasn't really having to much trouble getting them, but I'd like card selection, however, this deck is alot more consistent at "going off" on turn one or two then the last one, cabal therapy can hit your hand for a ton of Vengvines ( One of the nut draw hand is Cabal therapy Land Vengvine x 4 0 Drop creature x 2 (Yes 8 cards, you'd have to draw one of them, but still) also it could hit your opponent, and we have a ton of 0 drops for the flashback.

The Bayou is there for sideboard thoughts, though I haven't made a sideboard for it. Figured green would be important for enchant and artifact hate, since all your fetches would let you get it, I only put one in, (ok I'll be honest, I only had one when we were play testing, but still)

While, I liked this version, I still wanted to add consistency, and I couldn't think of a way to do that while staying in black, and hands with Vengevine were still an issue, since we only have 2 Cabal Therapy's. So I turned to Faithless looting, and was really happy, I mean it let you find the cards you need, and discarding cards wasn't a big issue, alot of the time you'll have a Vengevine to discard, or you'll only need 2 creature to get going not 3 or 4 (though I like keeping the extras.) Also careful studies. What deck run's both those? Dredge =D So taking from dredge, Rainbow lands =D


// Creatures
4 Vengevine
4 Memnite
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Ornithopter
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
// Mana
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
8 Swamp
2 Lotus Petal
// Enablers
4 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
2 Careful Study
// Sideboard
3 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Path to Exile
3 Cabal Therapy


So this is what I finally came to.

The sideboard is SUPER ROUGH. Mostly just thrown in there. But it's worked... ok I guess. Mainboard, is wanting to go as fast as possible, most hand your wanting to cast entomb or buried alive and start hitting them in the face, and if that isn't an option, you're using Careful Study, or Faithless Looting, to find cards you need in your hand, and put cards you don't want there, in your graveyard, where often you'll want them... and by often you'll want them, I mean Vengevine.

My favorite thing about this list, is how many nutty hands you can get. It's pretty common to be attacking for 8-16 turn one. And in my books, that's pretty good.

The deck is simple, and fairly resilient, but I'm not a legacy expert. I am not great at building land bases. And I'd like help and opinions, I've probably overlooked a ton of cards, I'm sure I could be doing things like running carion feeder and Gravecrawlers to set up a way to always be able to cast 2 creatures if you have two black mana available (This idea came up thanks to some play testing with a fellow named Drowning). Or running dark confidant... but he feels way to slow for this deck.

So what do you guys think, I know Vengevine list have existed before, but I couldn't find any like this. And I looked. I've be liking this list a ton, it's been fun, fast, resilient. But it's not perfect.

[Viridia]

I think you really, really, really want an answer to Surgical on your Vengevines ;)

Other than that, it looks quite fun, but not too consistent, especially in the face of countermagic (on your Buried Alive/Entombs) How did you feel about that in testing?

[Wik]

Yeah... Surgical is the biggest issue I've had so far, and I am currently not sure what to bring in for an answer.

Honestly, I haven't had to big an issue with counters, g1 it can be a little rough, but often times, if your buried alive doesn't go through you have entombs or another buried alive or can dig for one with Faithless Looting or Careful study's, Some of my testing was against RUG delver and it often felt to me like they needed more answer then they had. (Not saying I think it's favored in the match up, not at all though I don't think it's a bad match up)

G2 I generally have cabal therapy if I need it, or I was trying silence in from the board and I didn't hate it. Cabal is really nice though, Cast cabal, get some cards if you can, play 0 drop creature, sac for cabal, get vines from your hands, and then play a second 0 drop attack with vines isn't a rare play. But Mainboard I just wanted to try and go a little faster, and I feel like looting and study's do that better. Though I could be wrong.

If you can bait out counters on entombs, or careful study's when they think your dredge game one (I mean really, gemstone mine > Careful, what else are they gonna put you on) you can generally resolve what you need to.

[Edit] Also, yeah, it's a blast to play, I mean, when you do get the nutty draw of turn 1 attack for 16 you can't help but smile.

[ponder]

Maybe you could try GB
4 lotleth troll
4 vengevine
4 noble hierarch
4 wild mongrel
4 basking rootwalla
1 wickerbough elder
4 thoughtseize
3 cabal therapy
4 buried alive
4 abrupt decay
4 green suns zenith
1 jitte
4 bayou
1 volraths stronghold
4 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath
2 bloodstained mire
4 forest
1 swamp

[jhhdk]

I'm going to suggest two cards Abrupt Decay for Rest in Peace (very versatile and uncounterable), Ground seal for Surgical Extraction not a great answer, but an answer none the less (also answers Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze).

[Wik]

Maybe you could try GB
4 lotleth troll
4 vengevine
4 noble hierarch
4 wild mongrel
4 basking rootwalla
1 wickerbough elder
4 thoughtseize
3 cabal therapy
4 buried alive
4 abrupt decay
4 green suns zenith
1 jitte
4 bayou
1 volraths stronghold
4 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath
2 bloodstained mire
4 forest
1 swamp

While I like the idea of the list you posted, it feels like a different deck. The list that I'm working on is trying to go off turn one or 2 and attack for alot, it plays alot more like a combo deck. It's not as great after the first 4 turns, but it is fast.

Though abrupt decay is an excellent card I hadn't thought of, so thanks for that =D.


I'm going to suggest two cards Abrupt Decay for Rest in Peace (very versatile and uncounterable), Ground seal for Surgical Extraction not a great answer, but an answer none the less (also answers Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze).

Yeah, Abrupt Decay seems like an excellent card to run in the board. And... Ground Seal feels kinda awesome (just did a couple little test games against a RUG delver deck with a couple of them in the side). Thanks for the suggestions =D

[thecheese]

Maybe you could try GB
4 lotleth troll
4 vengevine
4 noble hierarch
4 wild mongrel
4 basking rootwalla
1 wickerbough elder
4 thoughtseize
3 cabal therapy
4 buried alive
4 abrupt decay
4 green suns zenith
1 jitte
4 bayou
1 volraths stronghold
4 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath
2 bloodstained mire
4 forest
1 swamp
This is very similar to the list I started with, it's Bg but with a zombie theme to use gravecrawler to combo out the vengevine. I found buried alive to be good but I went for an entomb toolbox approach I find it to be more flexible then the buried alive. Here's my current list. Might seem fat but alot of those cards make it to the graveyard very quick.

// Deck: BG dredge the Gravevine (67)

// Lands
4 Bayou
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
4 Bloodghast
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Gravecrawler
3 Lotleth Troll
4 Putrid Imp
1 Stinkweed Imp
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Vengevine

// Spells
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Darkblast
3 Dread Return
4 Entomb
2 Grisly Salvage
3 Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Ground Seal
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Vengeful Pharaoh

[thecheese]

Maybe you could try GB
4 lotleth troll
4 vengevine
4 noble hierarch
4 wild mongrel
4 basking rootwalla
1 wickerbough elder
4 thoughtseize
3 cabal therapy
4 buried alive
4 abrupt decay
4 green suns zenith
1 jitte
4 bayou
1 volraths stronghold
4 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath
2 bloodstained mire
4 forest
1 swamp
This is very similar to the list I started with, it's Bg but with a zombie theme to use gravecrawler to combo out the vengevine. Buried alive I found buried alive to be good but I went for an entomb toolbox approach I find it to be more flexible then the buried alive. Here's my current list. Might seem fat but alot of those cards make it to the graveyard very quick.

// Deck: BG dredge the Gravevine (67)

// Lands
4 Bayou
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
4 Bloodghast
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Gravecrawler
3 Lotleth Troll
4 Putrid Imp
1 Stinkweed Imp
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Vengevine

// Spells
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Darkblast
3 Dread Return
4 Entomb
2 Grisly Salvage
3 Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Ground Seal
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Vengeful Pharaoh

[wwwwins]

As for fighting surgical extraction on game 2, I would suggest you fight the fire with fire- i.e: You side in your own surgical extraction. It cost zero, and when they target your Vengevine, you respond by removing that target, and you fail to search the rest in your deck. You only lose one Vengevine as a result.

[Asthereal]

Nice, I was tinkering around with the Vines as well.
The ideas I came up with were a lot less combo'ish though.
First one was with Intuition in a Bant Aggro shell.
Second one is the list below, since it's rather similar to your attempt.

JUND VENGEVINE

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Lotleth Troll
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Shriekmaw
4 Vengevine /27

Spells:
4 Burning Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Buried Alive /13

Lands:
3 Taiga
3 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire /20

Sideboard:
1 Buried Alive
1 Death Mark
1 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Hull Breach
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
3 Mindbreak Trap /15

Idea:
Burning Wish helps you find the Buried Alive more consistently. Mana ramping creatures are nice to help cast Buried Alive quickly and are also cheap creatures that help get the Vines into play. Furthermore, the deck is stacked with utility creatures that help in all sorts of matchups. And if all else fails, you can always just go for the beatdown. The sideboard is designed so we can side out the Vines and Buried Alives for 3x Order, 1x Proggie and the Inquisitions. This transformation will make the opposing grave hate useless, and give you a new angle of attack. I realy think that we need this transformation option, since Surgical Extraction is the most played grave hate, and a very effective one against the main plan. Still, Ooze and Deathire Shaman can remove the targeted Vine, in order to protect the others, so perhaps I'm just being paranoid here. :wink:

I personally think the list looks great, but testing revealed it was a lot weaker than I had hoped it would be. But then again I didn't test it all that thoroughly, so perhaps I was just unlucky, or perhaps the list needs some finetuning and will become competitive afterwards.

[thecheese]

@Asthereal
I Like what the list is trying to do but a couple of points about the deck

grim lavamancer seems out of place here most of the cards you put into your graveyard are
useful be they to deathrite shaman scavenging ooze
noble hierarch, though exalted is good mana fixing with a 2 birds paradise seems better.

[Asthereal]

Note that the list I posted was just a rough idea. I never perfected it.
The creatures I chose all have their own purpose:
- Shaman fixes mana and clears the opposing yard of Snapcaster targets and such.
- Ooze also clears the opposing yard, both could be used to save a Vine from an Extraction.
- Grim Lavamancer seems odd, but it's actually just there to kill opposing Shamans.
- Shriekmaw should help kill opposing Oozes.
- Hierarchs fix mana and help us win Goyf wars (relevant at times).
- Lotleth Troll helps discard Vines and works as a wall to save us time to set up the Vines.
And of course the Vines are the finishers. Post board, Proggie usually is the finisher.

I tried this idea in a Nic Fit shell too, but found myself lacking enough creatures.
The Vengevines would often never make it to the table because I couldn't cast guys...
Still, it's a tempting idea. No guy fixes mana like Veteran Explorer. Let's give it another spin:

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Lotleth Troll
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness (helps retrieve guys to cast)
4 Shriekmaw
4 Vengevine /23

Spells:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
3 Buried Alive /15

Lands:
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain /22

Sideboard:
1 Buried Alive
1 Innocent Blood (kills Explorer)
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Hull Breach
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus/15

How do you think this'd go?

[Wik]

Hey all, I like what some of you are looking at doing, but I'm still trying to make the deck work more on the combo side of things. One care, which is really peaking my interest, is Reaping the Graves, I mean, being able to go Dark Ritual, Reaping the Graves get 2 0 drops back and get your vines back after they kill them somehow, could add some more reach to the deck, also possibly allow for cutting down on how many 0 drops I have and adding in some cards like stinkweed imp just to get a bit of dredge off to get a ton of card advantage with Reaping the Graves making you able to replay 0 drops every turn through people killing/blocking your vines.

This is just a thought I had before I should be running off to bed. But I think it has some merit, being able to cut down on the number of 0 drops, to more consistently go off for 3 or 4 vines on turn 2 or 3 with protection of some sort (slots opened up for Thoughtseize and such main deck.) Though I need to balance how many of what card is needed. I'm really liking the deck in practice so far, it has some openings that just win, and can be fairly resilient, but I think something like reaping the grave could be really nice for the deck. We'll see where this goes, also reaping the grave, would let you return a vine to your hand in response to a surgical or something, allowing you to dump it again later with looting or careful studies, or possibly putrid imp if I add it.

Thanks again guys, I really like that people are talking about Vengevine again, it's really one of my favorite cards. Even if it's just a little bit of talk.

[Zupponn]

I can't help but think that this deck looks a ton like Cheeri0s. I wonder if there are cards that it uses that might be useful here. Maybe trying to incorporate the Cheeri0s strategy as a back up plan might be something to fiddle around with? It might be trying to pack too much into one deck, but is probably worth at least looking into.

[CalebD]

I can't help but think that this deck looks a ton like Cheeri0s. I wonder if there are cards that it uses that might be useful here. Maybe trying to incorporate the Cheeri0s strategy as a back up plan might be something to fiddle around with? It might be trying to pack too much into one deck, but is probably worth at least looking into.

Sounds fun! I like the idea of the Glimpse draw engine.

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [U] Bayou
2 [JGC] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
3 [RTR] Lotleth Troll
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
2 [GP] Wild Cantor
4 [M11] Ornithopter
2 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [ROE] Vengevine
4 [MGD] Memnite
4 [LG] Kobolds of Kher Keep

// Spells
3 [EX] Culling the Weak
4 [MI] Infernal Contract
2 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [CMD] Buried Alive
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
2 [SC] Beastmaster Ascension

I wish there was a convenient way to convert black mana into green.

[Wik]

Sounds fun! I like the idea of the Glimpse draw engine.

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [U] Bayou
2 [JGC] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
3 [RTR] Lotleth Troll
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
2 [GP] Wild Cantor
4 [M11] Ornithopter
2 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [ROE] Vengevine
4 [MGD] Memnite
4 [LG] Kobolds of Kher Keep

// Spells
3 [EX] Culling the Weak
4 [MI] Infernal Contract
2 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [CMD] Buried Alive
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
2 [SC] Beastmaster Ascension

I wish there was a convenient way to convert black mana into green.

Yeah, wow, this is awesome.

I didn't even think of that, and glimpse is so good here, even if you just draw a couple cards off it, it's still value, you don't need to dig as deep as Cheeri0s.

I like it.

[Hanni]

@ Caleb

I like the idea of using Glimpse too, that's pretty cool.

I would back up a bit though, and evaluate a few things. Why Lotleth Troll? Troll is a strong card, but the only card you actually want to discard is Vengevine, and GB is a clunky cost for a discard outlet. Putrid Imp would speed the deck up more, if you ask me.

I still think the Putrid Imp, Carrion Feeder, Gravecrawler core is extremely strong, and I'd consider fitting it into this list as well. You're already making tons of black mana with Dark Ritual and Culling the Weak, these 3 creatures cost a single black each, and their synergy is insane. 12 Zombies is enough to support Gravecrawler, who happens to work extremely well with Culling the Weak, Diabolic Intent, Cabal Therapy, and Glimpse of Nature.

With a Feeder on the board, you can pretty much chain-cast Gravecrawler to consistently draw cards off of Glimpse, once you run out of 0cc creatures, which would strengthen the Glimpse engine.

Putrid Imp is a much more efficient discard outlet for Vengevine than Troll, and Carrion Feeder has the ability to grow much larger than Troll (in this shell). Troll really needs Squee, if you ask me...

Entomb was always really good for consistency with my other Vengevine lists, for enabling more consistent 'early Vengevine beats.' This version is more focused on going off with Glimpse, but a solid turn 1 or turn 2 double Vengevine plan is still really good against many decks.

Beastmaster Ascension looks a bit janky, since you have to attack 7 times first, but I like you're thought process on the creature pump with all of those 0cc creatures. What about Dark Triumph? Completely free with a Swamp out, and the sac clause is a very small drawback in this deck. It also gives you a way to sac your Vines in response to Swords to Plowshares or Terminus or whatever.

At any rate, I'm digging the idea here. I've worked on several different Vengevine lists ever since you got Survival banned (lol), and this shell looks really cool. I love the idea of turning this into a super fast combo deck, vs the more recent midrange aggro lists that people have been working on.

[Hanni]

Sorry for the double post, but I had a few other ideas to add.

A single Tendrils seems like a decent option, going along the SI route, with Intent to tutor for it. Also, if the cc costs are kept low enough, a single Ad Nauseam could also be a potent draw engine in addition to Glimpse.

I think with enough fine-tuning and cross-pollinating of ideas between SI and the more recent iterations of Gravevine lists, a really strong deck can be built here.

[Barook]

I wish there was a convenient way to convert black mana into green.
There's Blood Celebrant, although I don't know if it's "convenient", considering the life cost. On the upside, it only costs :b: and can be used to trigger Vengevine.

[CalebD]

@ Caleb
I would back up a bit though, and evaluate a few things. Why Lotleth Troll? Troll is a strong card, but the only card you actually want to discard is Vengevine, and GB is a clunky cost for a discard outlet. Putrid Imp would speed the deck up more, if you ask me.

I still think the Putrid Imp, Carrion Feeder, Gravecrawler core is extremely strong, and I'd consider fitting it into this list as well. You're already making tons of black mana with Dark Ritual and Culling the Weak, these 3 creatures cost a single black each, and their synergy is insane. 12 Zombies is enough to support Gravecrawler, who happens to work extremely well with Culling the Weak, Diabolic Intent, Cabal Therapy, and Glimpse of Nature.

Beastmaster Ascension looks a bit janky, since you have to attack 7 times first, but I like you're thought process on the creature pump with all of those 0cc creatures. What about Dark Triumph? Completely free with a Swamp out, and the sac clause is a very small drawback in this deck. It also gives you a way to sac your Vines in response to Swords to Plowshares or Terminus or whatever.


These are some sweet ideas. I still prefer Troll to Putrid Imp, as Imps become redundant real quick but Troll can turn a pile of 0 mana dorks into damage, which is relevant when comboing off with glimpse.

Not sure if you meant this, but you don't have to attack seven times with Beastmaster, just get seven triggers. If seven creatures attack, Beastmaster will have enough triggers to activate and become lethal. This is why the card shows up in Cheerios as a win condition, though it might not be necessary with both Carrion Feeder and Troll becoming huge.

Second draft:

// Lands
2 [JGC] Gaea's Cradle
4 [U] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
4 [M11] Ornithopter
4 [MGD] Memnite
4 [ROE] Vengevine
1 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [FNM] Carrion Feeder
4 [DKA] Gravecrawler
3 [RTR] Lotleth Troll
2 [LE] Blood Celebrant
2 [GP] Wild Cantor

// Spells
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
4 [CMD] Buried Alive
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [EX] Culling the Weak
2 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Infernal Contract

I'd like a third Blood Celebrant, as being able to cast more gifts mid-combo is pretty important.

[bruizar]

i dont know if tis possible but perhaps you can splash for mirror entity so that your 0-drops can atleast get in for a kill if vengevine isnt working. Its also not dependent on the graveyard.

[Wik]

After some play testing, I think some things, like the beast masters ascension (maybe one or two more in board) and mirror entity, would be really good after board if you put them on graveyard hate. I mean, you can win through leyline, but it would be nice to have the extra copies of that after board, plus 0 drops and Cradle mean you can naturally cast vengevine, just board out buried alive for 2 beast master's ascension and mirror entity + Concord crossroads or something?

Though I'm iffy on mirror entity, the splash would be hard.

[Barook]

With Blood Celebrant and Infernal Contract already in the deck, what about Death's Shadow as alternate wincon?

[bruizar]

After some play testing, I think some things, like the beast masters ascension (maybe one or two more in board) and mirror entity, would be really good after board if you put them on graveyard hate. I mean, you can win through leyline, but it would be nice to have the extra copies of that after board, plus 0 drops and Cradle mean you can naturally cast vengevine, just board out buried alive for 2 beast master's ascension and mirror entity + Concord crossroads or something?

Though I'm iffy on mirror entity, the splash would be hard.
Beast Masters Ascension is probably just better, doesn't die to StP. Your opponent really does not want to StP a memnite, but a Mirror Entity is fair game for any StP-slinging players. I would prioritize playing with Beast Masters Ascension and, if you need more of the same effect, add some mirror entities if you can cope with the splash.

[Wik]

Beast Masters Ascension is probably just better, doesn't die to StP. Your opponent really does not want to StP a memnite, but a Mirror Entity is fair game for any StP-slinging players. I would prioritize playing with Beast Masters Ascension and, if you need more of the same effect, add some mirror entities if you can cope with the splash.

Yeah, I think Concord Crossroad in the sideboard for Vs graveyard hate is good though, still giving up an explosive game ^.^ And I don't think mirror entities are something I'm going to look at further, not saying they're bad, I just don't think it's worth the splash.

Thanks ^.^

[adrieng]

I have been testing this pile ;

it is better than you think :


4 Vengevine
4 Buried Alive
4 Orcish Lumberjack
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Memnite
4 Intuition
4 Tinder Wall
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Taiga
3 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Lingering Souls
2 Savannah
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Forest
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Ray of Revelation
SB: 3 Natural Order
SB: 1 Progenitus
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt

[Vandalize]

I've been testing a BG Vengevine brew, and this is my latest list:

Lands [19]
4 Bayou
5 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire

Creatures [28]
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Putrid Imp
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler

Spells [13]
4 Entomb
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Snuff Out

Sideboard [15]
4 Ground Seal
3 Pithing Needle
3 Extirpate
2 Engineered Plague
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim

Lion's Eye Diamond is a real powerhouse, but it's all-in. It can enable a few explosive hands and abuse Gravecrawler and Carrion Feeder. My list does use a few disruption, but they're soft and free. Snuff Out if there to mainly clear blockers out of the way, or kill something dangerous. Cabal Therapy doesn't really need explanations, I guess.

I've taken this list to a local tournament and it was awesome. Went 3-1.

R1 UW Miracles 2-0 (on the play)

Game 1: I keep a rather fast hand with T2 combo. I start with fetch, go. He goes Sensei's Divining Top. I Entomb EOT for Vengevine. In my turn I draw another Vengevine, and follow with Putrid Imp -> Gravecrawler, returning both VV. I smash for 8 and pass. He goes for Brainstorm, and fetches a Tundra and pass. I just bash for exactly lethal, and he scoops.

SB: +3 Pithing Needle -3 Snuff Out (I know he plays Rest in Peace instead of Surgical)

Game 2: I just have the nuts in my hand: Bloodstained Mire, Carion Feeder, Gravecrawler, Vengevine, Vengevine, Lion's Eye Diamond, Cabal Therapy. He starts with Ponder. I start with Bloodstained Mire -> Swamp -> Lion's Eye Diamond, resolves. Cast Carrion Feeder, resolves. Break LED for BBB, and cast Gravecrawler returning the Vengevines. Cabal Therapy sacrificing Gravecrawler looks for Swords to Plowshares and hit once. Cast it again, and sacrifice it for Carion Feeder, and cast it for the last black mana. Bash for 8 and pass. He draws for the turn, Brainstorm and scoop.

R2 Goblins 2-0 (on the play)

Game 1: My opponent mulligans to 5, and I keep a good seven with some Bloodghast work. I start to bash him with Bloodghasts and some Cabal Therapy hits two of his Goblin Ringleaders. After a while, Lotleth Troll comes discarding some Vengevines and just trampling him out of the game.

SB: +2 Engineered Plague -2 Lion's Eye Diamond

Game 2: I keep a slow hand with some Bloodghasts and an Engineered Plague. I just needed to sandbag a land. I start bashing for low damage, and he builds a good board with a lot of tokens from Mogg War Marshal and Warchief. I topdeck my land, and slam Engineered Plague, clearing his board, and Snuff Out his Warchief. He can't recover even after a Goblin Ringleader chain and dies to my bloodseeking Vampires.

R3 BUG Control 1-2 (on the draw)

Game 1: He goes for Ponder. I go for Entomb for Vengevine. Putrid Imp discard another Vengevine and a Bloodghast. I fetch the Vampire in, and madness Basking Rootwalla for both Vines. They go the discance. After the game, complains that Abrupt Decay sucks against my deck, and don't know how to board for the match.

SB: -2 Lion's Eye Diamond, -2 Entomb +4 Ground Seal

Game 2: I have a lonely Bayou, but a 3 Blooghast in hands, as well as a Putrid Imp, seems fine. He starts with Inquisition of Kozilek taking my Imp. I play Bayou for Carrion Feeder. He plays Wasteland. I don't draw a land until I die from angry Tarmogoyfs.

Game 3: Turns out he's playing Leyline of the Void, and it didn't show up in the second game. I try to fight out, but Tarmogoyfs just outweight my team.

R4 UW Miracles 2-0 (on the play)

Game 1: I just steamroll him with my opening hand: Bayou, Bloodstained Mire, Vengevine, Bloodghast, Bloodghast, Basking Rootwalla, Putrid Imp. He dies turn 3 after landing an useless Counterbalance and Brainstorming into nothing.

SB: -3 Snuff Out -1 Lion's Eye Diamond +4 Ground Seal (this one do play Surgical)

Game 2: He starts with Top. I start with Carrion Feeder. He goes for Ponder and pass. I play Ground Seal, resolves. He uses Terminus in my lonely Feeder, and I just drop Lion's Eye Diamond, resolves. Play Lotleth Troll, resolves. I break LED discarding 1 Vengevine and 1 Gravecrawler. GC Returns VV, and I start bashing. He can't find another Terminus in time, nor a Swords to Plowshares, and dies horribly.

This deck is fun to play, and requires a little training to work well with. Holding fetchlands and using Cabal Therapy wisely is really important for this deck success, and you have to know how most triggers work. If you can have this deck a spin, you will have a lot of fun :D