[GTCl]UB Mill

[Darkenslight]

With the printing of Mind Grind in Gatecrash, I think that there is a potential deck here that is Legacy playable, and should mill someone out between turn 3 and 4 in a typical game. A rough decklist is below.

Lands: 22

3 Island
3 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Ghost Quarter

Creatures: 8

4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Hedron Crab

Spells: 32

4 Mind Grind
4 Mind Funeral
3 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Elixir of Immortality
1 Crucible of Worlds

Now, on to some of the card choices:

Ghost Quarter over Wasteland - This is a niche use for Ghost Quarter, because as your main milling cards key off the number of lands as for the number of cards milled, removing a land from the deck is going to be more relevant than removing the land.

Maindeck GY hate - this is to combat Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, as the shuffle trigger can be responded to. Possible alternatives include Stifle and Ravenous Trap, which are meta-dependent.

Elixir of Immortality - In case of emergency, and for responding to your Relic activations.

Crucible of Worlds - for mising into with a Ghost Quarter on the field, for a long-term hard-lock against most decks.

Possible alternate inclusions:

Dark Confidant - Bob seems made for this deck, with nothing costing more than 3, save Force.

Deathrite shaman over the crab - In order to make use of your opponent's graveyard, which you will be filling pretty quickly.

Extirpate - For when Surgicals just aren't quick enough.

Thoughts and critiques are, as always, appreciated.

[bruizar]

No archive trap and dimir guildmage? Also, splash for path to exile perhaps. i'd run the 1u trap tutor, archive trap and ravenous trap

[thecheese]

Archive trap, nihilith and jace's phantasm to give a viable alternative win condition.

[Aggro_zombies]

Mind Sculpt and Archive Trap both seem better than Mind Grind for the turbo mill plan.

[Darkenslight]

Hrm...so if I took out the crabs for 1 Mind Sculpt and 3 Archive Traps, that would be better?

[Vandalize]

It's funny the way this deck just auto-loses against Reanimator and Dredge, lol.

Why play this over Painter Stone or High Tide?

[Darkenslight]

It's funny the way this deck just auto-loses against Reanimator and Dredge, lol.

Why play this over Painter Stone or High Tide?

To be fair most decks have trouble with Dredge G1. AS to why play this over Painter-Stone: Abrupt Decay is a thing. As for playing it over High Tide, that would be more down to card availability/pricing.

Note that there's maindeck grave hate, which can be tinkered according to the metagame you're expecting. I would prefer to keep the deck purely UB, although Path to Exile is most definitely within this deck's game plan.

I like the idea of Jace's Phantasm and Nihilith, but I'm not sure if there's space for them main. Duskmantle Guildmage's activations are a touch too heavy for Legacy, IMO, but it's worth a potential slot.

Lands: 22

3 Island
3 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Ghost Quarter

Creatures: 8

4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Hedron Crab

Spells: 32

4 Mind Grind
4 Mind Funeral
3 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Elixir of Immortality
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Archive Trap
3 Ravenous Trap

Changes are:

-4 Hedron Crab
-2 Relic
+3 Archive Trap
+3 Ravenous Trap

[Aernil]

In my experience you really never want to cut Hedron Crab. Its just too good (and reusable, without mana investment) to not play 4 of them.
For reference, those are the lists I played:

Control:

4 Underground sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Swamp

4 Force of Will
4 Smother
4 Spell Snare

4 Brainstorm
4 Surgical Extraction

4 Hedron Crab
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
4 dont-remember


Speed:

4 Underground sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Swamp

4 Chrome Mox
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
4 Trade Secrets
4 Surgical Extraction

4 Hedron Crab
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
4 Mind Sculpt
2 Brain Freeze


Now I'd go something along the Speed version with +4 Snapcaster, -2 Brain Freeze, -1 Surgical Extraction, -1 Mind Sculpt.
I think the new Mill spell just isnt efficient enough to be played.

Edit:
Visions of Beyond was what I forgot.
Pretty powerful with Snapcaster.

[jjuday25]

In my experience you really never want to cut Hedron Crab. Its just too good (and reusable, without mana investment) to not play 4 of them.
For reference, those are the lists I played:

Control:

4 Underground sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Swamp

4 Force of Will
4 Smother
4 Spell Snare

4 Brainstorm
4 Surgical Extraction

4 Hedron Crab
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
4 dont-remember


Speed:

4 Underground sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Swamp

4 Chrome Mox
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
4 Trade Secrets
4 Surgical Extraction

4 Hedron Crab
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
4 Mind Sculpt
2 Brain Freeze


Now I'd go something along the Speed version with +4 Snapcaster, -2 Brain Freeze, -1 Surgical Extraction, -1 Mind Sculpt.
I think the new Mill spell just isnt efficient enough to be played.

Edit:
Visions of Beyond was what I forgot.
Pretty powerful with Snapcaster.



I really like the idea of th deck but as I was looking at the core of the deck I thought most of it is modern playable. I think it would be a lot more competitive in that format, sure you lose force of will and brainstorm but so does everyone else. & there would be a lot less broken decks to face.

4x glimpse
4x mind funeral
4x archive trap
3x mind grind
4x spell pierce/ mana leak/ permission
2-3 snapcaster mage
4x deathrite shaman
2x surgical extraction
1-2x crucible of worlds
1-2 relic of progentis
Some number of discard....thoughtseize mostly
4x ghost quarter
fetches
a couple creeping tar pits
shocks
maybe some mind sculpt...a singleton Jace, memory adept
Bob out of the sideboard? I think path to exile would be excellent out of the sideboard too. Jaces phantasm also....I know this is a legacy forum but I think it has applications for modern also!! I would like to see how it does though! The dimir charm also might fit and give a few options.

[Aernil]

After some testing I have to conclude that Visions of Beyond + Snapcaster is incredible.
With those, you really need just one or two mill spells to "go off".

[bruizar]

It's funny the way this deck just auto-loses against Reanimator and Dredge, lol.

Why play this over Painter Stone or High Tide?

I played a similar build with 4x Trapmaker's Snare and maindeck Ravenous Trap, I had no troubles beating dredge.

[Aernil]

In testing I actually beat Dredge without much problems.
After boarding I had 4 Extractions and 3 Extirpate.
I allowed him to dredge some stuff and EOT I fetched with Hedron Crab in Play, played Visions of beyond drawing some Extirpates

[Darkenslight]

So, from my earlier list, I've made some changes: for example, I found that Mind Grind and Mind Funeral were stupidly bad, so the initial design for this (keying off land-thinning) doesn't work.

This is where I've got to:

4 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Hedron Crab

4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Misdirection
4 Mind Sculpt
4 Archive Trap
4 Diabolic Edict
3 Visions of Beyond
3 Extirpate
2 Jace Beleren
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Ravenous Trap

Note that the Hedron Crab turned out better in this build. Much better. SB is as yet unconfirmed. Possibility of Blue Sun's Zenith being added later. Will also test Whispering Madness once Gatecrash is released.

[Zinch]

So, from my earlier list, I've made some changes: for example, I found that Mind Grind and Mind Funeral were stupidly bad, so the initial design for this (keying off land-thinning) doesn't work.

This is where I've got to:

4 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Hedron Crab

4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Misdirection
4 Mind Sculpt
4 Archive Trap
4 Diabolic Edict
3 Visions of Beyond
3 Extirpate
2 Jace Beleren
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Ravenous Trap

Note that the Hedron Crab turned out better in this build. Much better. SB is as yet unconfirmed. Possibility of Blue Sun's Zenith being added later. Will also test Whispering Madness once Gatecrash is released.

4x Ghost Quarter would be a good idea with the traps (if your opponent don't play fetchlands they are dead draws)

Edit: And even can be used with the crabs (targeting your own land)

[Darkenslight]

4x Ghost Quarter would be a good idea with the traps (if your opponent don't play fetchlands they are dead draws)

Edit: And even can be used with the crabs (targeting your own land)

Nope, as the search on GQ is optional, not mandatory. Otherwise that would work.

[Zinch]

But if your opponent don't look for a basic land, he or she is giving you 4 Strip Mine. I don't think that would be so bad...

[Darkenslight]

But if your opponent don't look for a basic land, he or she is giving you 4 Strip Mine. I don't think that would be so bad...

I'm not diagreeing with you. But I did notice that the FAQ ruling on Archive Trap isn't in the Rulings list on Oracle (in particular, the ruling about opponents forcing a search.)

[Greenpoe]

I'm surprised you'd run Ravenous Trap at all - I'd think that running extra copies of Surgical is just better. The Trap messes with Visions of Beyond and Surgical gets is basically a mill-effect as well, getting up to 3 cards out of their library.

[Darkenslight]

I'm surprised you'd run Ravenous Trap at all - I'd think that running extra copies of Surgical is just better. The Trap messes with Visions of Beyond and Surgical gets is basically a mill-effect as well, getting up to 3 cards out of their library.

I was wondering about turning it into Haunting Echoes or Jace #2 as a possibility.

[mishrazz]

I have been playing this deck since the printing of Visions of Beyond. I have decided to try daze as my counterspell. You want to play this deck like a burn deck, and pitching mill cards to FOW is ..well, counter productive. I would put some spell pierce/snare in the SB.
I also run some discard. I chose IOK, because Thoughtsieze brings the pain, and against aggro decks you can't afford to give away life.
I run 2x Ghost Quarters and splash white for Path to Exile. I love the whole "go ahed, search your library ..i dare you" after two Archive Traps and 26 cards, your opponent will be veeeery careful to search, and this makes your spells even more powerful.
After sideboarding, you can board in damnations, more discard and countermagic, and turn the deck into a more controlling grindy type deck. This is why i also added a Nephalia Drownyard. And, yes.. never take out the crabs. They are easily some of the best cards in the deck. Two of them turns every fetchland into a nightmare for your opponent, and they are blockers in the late game, whem all you need is to top deck a mill spell for the win against the aggro deck.

I even beat legacy combo elves with the esper mill deck a few times. Would i bring it to the tournament? Probably not (i'd run sneak 'n show) but the mill deck is a lot of fun :)